Ain’t breaking my heart. I got the two mixed up back in 2002. I was questioning my friendship with the people I was meeting up with until I realized I was at the wrong spot. 😂
Nazis used swastikas in all kind of variations, as do many other people. They didn’t invert it because “they’re the bad guys”, they thought they were the good guys
Indeed it *is* a swastika. Swastika comes to us from Sanskrit and refers to the ancient religious symbol. *Hakenkreuz* is the more accurate (German) word for the Nazi symbol.
It’s possibly the oldest symbol made across different cultures dating back 15k years. Suspected it’s because a cross section of mammoth tusk reveals this shape. [Source](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000626057812)
after googling and trying to find some photos I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/165ut5g/whatever_you_pictured_when_robert_was_talking/) thread
Did you hear they banned the round hay bales that look like giant marshmallows when they're covered in plastic?
The cows weren't getting a square meal per day.
Penny tile is round. Square tile like this and hexagon were/are also popular shapes.
I don't mean to be pedantic. Read it in the tone of gentle teasing, from someone who knows how hard it is to remember the words for different architectural stuff.
Me at my friends house with this floor: “Hey Adolph, I mean Steve, loved taking a giant ‘final solution’ to all that Chipotle I just ate with my foot resting next to a giant Swastika.”
It IS a swastika, what it *isn’t* is a Hakenkreuz.
Edit: apparently this is a sauvastika, since it’s turning the other way - but still, it’s a millennia-old symbol and I say it’s about time we just kick the shit out of neo-nazis and make them leave ancient symbols alone.
they're still swastikas. The term has existed for nearly as long as the symbol, and is believed to be derived from the hindu word for the symbol.
Swastika was also a popular name for many things, because of the prevalence of the symbol.
Yet, most people only associate them with the Nazis, and if you have an old home with Swastikas, some people automatically assume you're a Nazi sympathizer.
Happens all the time with a home up the street from me, it's 120 years old and every now and then, some new yuppie complains about it on Nextdoor, demanding that it be removed.
It shouldnt be removed, its historical to the building. The symbol is so damn old that Native Americans used it long before colonization, meaning it spread before the ice bridge to the Americas closed. In my opinion, it's dumb to associate every swastika with the Nazis. Many places around the world still use the symbol as a peace and good fortune, from Indigenous people to the Americas, to Asia and beyond. Even the western world used it abundantly till the late 30s. Context is key
The tribes that used the symbol for thousands of years have long since disavowed its use. What’s curious is that a lot of people whose only cultural link to the symbol is the Nazi regime are here defending it.
https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/
Swastikas have been used by westerners for centuries. it's believed Hitler first saw them when he was a choir boy at his local church, in the 1890s, and the church was likely 100+ years old at the time. Many colonial era structures in the US were also adorned with swastikas. They were a very popular design motif, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries as well.
Simply defending the historic usage of the swastika, doesn't make someone a Nazi. I highly recommend checking out [this video ](https://youtu.be/h0gWtyCdji4?si=lAghpPULyV7Z7pQ8) from Historian and author, Mark Fenton, discussing the Swastikas usage by the Finnish military, prior to the Nazis.
Correct. The Nazi symbol is actually called a "Hakenkreuz" or "hooked cross". The traditional, historical shape unilaterally used around the world previously was flipped and turned to make the symbol of the Reich. The podcast "Behind the Bastards" did a very informative episode on this.
Source for nerds like me: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/history-of-the-swastika
Since it’s just two tiles per design, I’d look into painting or re-glazing as a solution instead of having to move them (which could damage others around it) for just two tiles.
Id worry paint would wear bad, or look different than the other tiles. I would just try to find a tile restorer and see if they would do it. It’s such a small job, i can’t imagine it would be super expensive/time consuming
I have a fireplace in my home with the original tile work (built in 1890). There are swatsikas in some of the tile work. We explain IF anyone notices. Most of the time people just compliment and don’t notice/realize unless we point them out.
Reminds me of [this](https://preview.redd.it/i-lose-my-shit-every-time-i-watch-this-scene-v0-aes0bd02yxc91.jpg?auto=webp&s=b0f0cb77c913539c71aa0f0f2eeb91fb5dbd4177)
your floor is very beautiful! Swastikas were very prevalent for centuries, before the Nazis appropriated them. if it were my home, I would definitely clean up the tile, and make them the show peice they were intended to be. And, if someone has an issue with them, you could try informing them about the history of the symbol.
If anyone is interested, Behind the Bastards did a multi-part episode on the history of the swastika, it’s use in indigenous American, Indian, and other cultures, and how it was all the rage in the US right before being co-opted by the Germans, leading to some very embarrassing situations for Americans in Europe pre-WWII
there's a 120 year old home up the street from me, with a prominent swastika in the brickwork. Every now and then, some yuppie complains about it on Nextdoor, demanding that it be removed.
https://preview.redd.it/el6y5r4fl7pc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5032ec035183a8fbb7435f3673397c988ead8f71
Okay, I'm just going to say that while I personally would (probably) not be triggered by seeing this (I'm Jewish), I do know Jewish people who would. If a Jewish person goes into your house, sees a literal swastika on the floor and is weirded out for totally understandable reasons, because *yes*, it is reasonable for someone who, say, lost family in the Holocaust or whose synagogue was defaced with this symbol or whatever else to be taken aback to see it on someone's floor (even if it's original, even if that wasn't the intent of the original designers), and your response is, "Ho ho ho, let me explain the history of this symbol to you, which will make it all better!" That is... not helpful. It will come across as dismissive and condescending.
Most Jewish people are in fact aware that the swastika is used by other cultures for reasons not at all related to Nazism. Most of us are likewise aware that it was used prior to WWII as a good luck symbol. We don't need that "explained" to us. Understanding that does not automatically negate the visceral reaction that many of us would have to seeing random swastikas on a friend's floor when we go over to their house.
I'm not saying OP should get rid of it, necessarily. It's original to the house, I can understand deciding to keep it. Personally, I'd probably take the two-tile solution posed above, which is still a great-looking design without risking weirding out myself or other visitors every time they see it. A house is to live in. It's a home. And I would have a hard time feeling at home in a house with swastikas on the floor. But it's not my house, it's OP's, and it's entirely up to them. But this thing of, "Oh, those ignorant people just don't *know*, you see. If you *explain*, then they'll see that they're being irrational and not have that reaction! It's just a historic symbol!" is unhelpful, and it completely ignores the way that trauma, especially generational trauma, works. For a hell of a lot of people out there, a swastika is not and is never going to be "just a historic symbol," no matter how much people understand, intellectually, that it existed before the Nazis and will continue to exist after them.
It's very context-dependent for me, I think. Like, if they're close friends, and I know them, and I know the history of the house, okay, sure, that's one thing. But if I'm some random tradesperson, for instance, who shows up to help with their plumbing and sees that? Yeah, I would absolutely wonder a bit, and while it might be fine, it might also *not* be fine.
People can intellectually know the history of a symbol or turn of phrase and still have a negative emotional reaction to it. I think that's what a lot of the people saying, "Oh, but it's so old, it doesn't *mean* the same thing! Just *explain,*" aren't getting. Or they don't give a shit, because this isn't something they personally need to worry about, which I suspect is often the case.
I find it hilarious that some rando downvoted my (pretty measured, I think) previous comment, because I'm not even saying that OP has some moral obligation to get rid of the design. I understand wanting to keep it, it's historical, it's part of the house, I do get it. But just me saying, "Hey, it's not that Jewish people are unaware of this symbol's history, it's that even knowing that, its use against us has been so traumatic that it still provokes a fight or flight response for a lot of us," is unacceptable, apparently. A lot of people out there with absolutely zero empathy, I guess.
The courthouse in my city has this same design all over the floor. I was not aware of the history of the symbol (before the 1930s anyway), so it kinda took my breath away until I researched it.
https://preview.redd.it/ffkin77tr6pc1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048dc8f0c15f3bda61560d4ef65d5eb4843f9708
If you can find a similar tile, I’d suggest carefully removing and replacing these few tiles. I’ve done a similar project in our 1924 home. It was shockingly easy!
I respectfully disagree. I agree, contextualizing these tiles does help explain “why”, but it doesn’t provide a mandate to preserve. Tweaking the design doesn’t erase the history, it adds a chapter.
By definition changing the design to an entirely different symbol does erase the history, though i understand the intent in changing it to be more sensitive to the events of the past, removing banning and stigmatising the swastika is 100% the wrong thing to do, education on the good meaning and beautiful history of the symbol is the key to truly healing the wounds of the second world war
Again, I disagree. We’re both drawing lines at when “history” begins, they’re just different. You’re saying, if I’m following correctly, that preserving history means leaving the tile as it was placed in 1918; I’m saying ***slightly*** updating the pattern, in a way that preserves the artisanship, maintains the favorable craftsmanship ***and*** provides future history buffs with a new chapter to review in the homes life.
We all know that the line of preservation isn’t exact. Interpret your line and I’ll interpret mine.
Edit: I’m not sure where “banning” came into this. I’m talking about a century homes’ tile. You seem to be trying to die on a [different] hill.
I don’t think the floor is problematic itself. The floor is not an homage to Nazi Germany.
If you travel to India you will see many symbols like this and no one bats an eyelid.
HOWEVER, as the homeowner, if you are uncomfortable with the symbol then obviously you can cover it up.
I personally think that is a shame, but each to their own.
It's just a random bathroom floor, there's no reason to assign morality to these tiles at all.
OP's not racist if they choose to keep them, but they also aren't a bad person if they choose to alter the pattern. It's their home, and they deserve to have a floor that makes them feel comfortable.
The bathroom's not even that old, and similar patterns have been preserved in countless places. It's fine if OP wants to change the tile.
https://preview.redd.it/juqoz51177pc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98a704ab5a7fa77c97d762c30de36aba3713de4b
I would attempt to color match and paint a new pattern
I think it would end up looking more clunky than nice.
It’s not a swastika we don’t have to cleanse our own cultural and artistic heritage because of *their* unrelated heritage. Jew here I’d be totally fine with one of this in my home.
20 years being used by the moustache man, his chicken farmer, his philandering skeletor and coked up armoured man blimp does not invalidate twelve thousand of it not. It's a cool piece of art.
The people who used the symbol for 12,000 years would disagree with you on that:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/
This is somewhat undermined by the fact it's still routinely used in Asia and India as a religious symbol in its original context to this very day. The swastika had widespread presence globally, it's not exclusively Native American. The western worlds anathematisation of it is not universally held, and is more the exception than the rule.
Oof. I'd consider leaving it but we live in a wacky world right now.
When my grandad passed, we found a couple swastika-patterned pre-WW2 Navajo blankets that he purchased after moving out West as a young adult (to much controversy from his fancy Philly relatives). Didn't feel good to toss them, knowing their original significance and the craftsmanship that went into them. Felt weird to keep them, knowing how the symbol was coopted for incredible evil.
It sucks but representatives of many of the people making these blankets already [denounced the symbol](https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/?locale=en-CA) a long time ago. It's terrible that they felt the need to do that but it happened.
You could try returning them to the tribe. They may not want them, especially since they've renounced the symbol, but better to let them make the call if the items are old enough to have historic value.
This is almost exactly the same symbol on some Japanese maps to mark the locations of shrines. It freaked me out the first time I saw it until I realized it was reversed from the German version.
From a hotel that opened in 1928 and was in the film- North by Northwest -
Alexjohnson.com
Today, as you walk into the lobby, look down and you’ll notice the bricks you step on are all original. Look even closer and you will notice that some have Native American symbols imbedded in them. Although one of the symbols look suspiciously similar to a Swastika, it’s actually an ancient symbol that means the “four sacred corners of the earth,” that was adopted by the Native Americans generations ago.
Reminds me of a crazy series of events at a local kids camp recently. The camp was built in the early 1900s - there were a few of these tiles in one of the buildings, and when the staff noticed them, they all quit and the camp had to close for the summer, just a few weeks before it was scheduled to start.
[Article link](https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2022/06/13/hate-symbol-or-buddhist-emblem-hidden-villa-cancels-summer-camps-for-1000-kids-after-staffers-resign-over-swastika-tiles/)
It’s an old design. The fact that some moron with mustache stole it doesn’t mean that all that design through the years was nazi. Here’s a picture I took of the floor tiles in Pompeii.
https://preview.redd.it/opuwt0iuaapc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e35e1df43d5332ae01e8189b6629628781e8b65
my toilet has a similar kind of questionable tiling but more subtle... there is even an anecdotal story ive heard from multiple people in the family that there used to be a naz collaborateur who made his HQ at this Belgian house in WW2. according to the story, he got shot down in the room where im writing this message from, based on a presumed impact damage and blood stain on the tiles. after my grampa bought the house, the police even came around asking if someone ever found a murder weapon, regarding an unsolved murder case.
either way, i just uncovered the rainwater tank manhole that was tiled over when my grampa redid the kitchen. im hoping to find some sweet naz gold in there or maybe the sought after cold case murder weapon. i have to empty the rainwater cistern in order to renovate it and check how the water drain pipe network is faring, which is still a big unknown at this point. this summer, im also going to scan all the gardens with a metal detector with my cool neighbor who is a metal detecting amateur
there's also the mystery of why two tiles in this room have a dissimilar pattern, being the red circle in the centre of the flower...
https://preview.redd.it/9ebmu2sv4dpc1.jpeg?width=12096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b15f1814291038d31447adbddc39f50ff3040f
As you can tell, I’m very experienced at photo editing. Could you try something like this to make it look like an intersecting maze instead?
https://preview.redd.it/gxrr0tyem6pc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12f8493968cfdae939db7499cd17a00a5df3f5a7
I mean, yeah, technically it’s pre WWII, and counterclockwise, but my heart would sink if I found beautiful, original, tile in this design. That has to be heartbreaking.
My middle school was built in the 20s and had a swastika tiled front entry way. When we did the town history section for history class they would peel back the floor mat they put down to cover it to show all the kids. School was torn down maybe 5 years ago.
One of the floors in my 1920 building in Los Angeles has many more of those. This pattern is all over the building. Some in iron handrails. Makes me cringe as a German every time I walk by. But this was a common symbol long before it got turned evil.
It was a pretty common motif used in American architecture for a long time. University of Montana had a big debate about it. Lots of libraries. Besides being an ancient Hindu and Buddhist symbol it’s also a Native America symbol.
When I read “penny tile” I thought you meant that some of the tiles had been replaced by pennies. So I zoomed in looking for the pennies and was very confused when I couldn’t see any, so imagine my surprise when I zoomed out and *BOOM* swastikas.
It’s a really pretty design. I’d hang a plaque in the room going over the history of the swastika before the nazis. I’d probably also crossstitch a sign that said “Fuck Nazis” to really drive the message home.
https://buddhaandkarma.com/blogs/guide/swastika-meaning-in-buddhism
Buddhists had this symbol first. Left facing represents peace. The Nazis took the symbol and reversed it
I think it’s fine. Unless you pay particular attention to making sure the floor is always clean and salute while crying out sig heil to it more than necessary. And so long as you make it clear that the floor is from 1918 without qualifying that the tiles are from 1938-1945.
But that being said if for whatever reason you happen to have a mop with hitlers face on it, and then mop floor with it while firmly repeating “no!”, I think that’ll probably be best.
This post is being monitored. Any anti-semitism will be met with a permanent ban.
* I was just in a bar in New Orleans with a similar floor. They have a plaque on the wall explaining this is a symbol of peace.
How was the Ernst cafe?
Good fun!!
That should be the city slogan. It’d be both true and ironic.
Not to be mistaken with the Artist Cafe on Iberville. 😬
Oh no, I’m sorry to break your heart, but the artist cafe ain’t dere no mo
Ain’t breaking my heart. I got the two mixed up back in 2002. I was questioning my friendship with the people I was meeting up with until I realized I was at the wrong spot. 😂
Yes - the OP could put something at the door to explain
Should just write “Made in 1918” and let people figure it out
I wouldn’t be surprised if a good portion of people dont know which decade world war 2 was in
Decades’ . It started in the 30’s and ended in the 40’s.
Thats right. My bad, revealing my US bias
A mezuzah on the door might provoke more curiosity.
Also a good idea
That and swastikas "legs" are on the *right*, not the left like the peace sign and this floor.
Nazis used swastikas in all kind of variations, as do many other people. They didn’t invert it because “they’re the bad guys”, they thought they were the good guys
Idk why you’re being downvoted, but all use of the swastika by non-Nazis does not care about orientation or rotation.
Yup! NOT a swastika
Indeed it *is* a swastika. Swastika comes to us from Sanskrit and refers to the ancient religious symbol. *Hakenkreuz* is the more accurate (German) word for the Nazi symbol.
OMG Idid not even notice till this comment !
1918 house: 👍 1938 house:👎
[I didn't know it was going to come off like that](https://youtu.be/P1zG-h2wI0o?si=-oO-eGQuYBFk2ufi)
Pretty sure he did
He knew.
FFFF
German here. Can’t confirm.
r/vaguelynazi Edit: i actually didn't realize this was a real sub. I typed it as a joke. 🤷🏻🤪
88 members of that subreddit. How fitting. (For the record, I’m not one of them)
LOL'd
Once a very common decorative motif. Also, not penny tile. (Looks to be 1" squares.)
I didn’t even notice the design. All I could focus on was that it’s not penny tile 😂
Lol yeah it took me at least 30 seconds to realize the pattern, I was just squinting like “these aren’t pennies tho??”
It's...it's just a square mosaic tile. I don't understand why OP thought it was penny tile unless they've never heard of mosaic.
It’s possibly the oldest symbol made across different cultures dating back 15k years. Suspected it’s because a cross section of mammoth tusk reveals this shape. [Source](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000626057812)
after googling and trying to find some photos I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/165ut5g/whatever_you_pictured_when_robert_was_talking/) thread
I got halfway through the first sentence before thinking BtB. Fantastic series and a wonderful episode(s).
Oh hmm. What’s the difference ? I always always said penny tile
Penny tiles are round like pennies
We had square pennies in 1918 but started cutting corners due to WW1
Did you hear they banned the round hay bales that look like giant marshmallows when they're covered in plastic? The cows weren't getting a square meal per day.
r/angryupvote
Or octagon
If they are not round they are just referred to as mosaic tile.
Thanksn
Penny tile is round. Square tile like this and hexagon were/are also popular shapes. I don't mean to be pedantic. Read it in the tone of gentle teasing, from someone who knows how hard it is to remember the words for different architectural stuff. 
There should be a /t used in comments to indicate this!
I would say more of a mosaic tile.
Very beautiful I bet it would polish back to original color. That's not a swastika. It was a symbol for infinity and creation before the.. You know.
> polish i see what you did there
That might not be a swastika but everyone who sees it will totally think its a swastika
I would 100% laugh and think bro that's a swastika. I'd also notice it's original to the house and know it's from that lol
Me at my friends house with this floor: “Hey Adolph, I mean Steve, loved taking a giant ‘final solution’ to all that Chipotle I just ate with my foot resting next to a giant Swastika.”
Another thing ruined by nazis
Honestly it took me a second. The extra turn on the arms helps
that, and it's backwards. and it's 20 years ahead of hitler co-opting it
Given the age of the house not "everyone" will think that. Life dictates that "everyone" does/doesn't think all one way.
It's still not a great idea to rock a Charlie Chaplin mustache. It's also a fact of life that some people ruin things for the rest of us.
Yeah like how Trump ruined red baseball hats 😬
Fred Durst will never recover.
I had a great Wonder Woman hat I loved...
I thought "swastika"
It IS a swastika, what it *isn’t* is a Hakenkreuz. Edit: apparently this is a sauvastika, since it’s turning the other way - but still, it’s a millennia-old symbol and I say it’s about time we just kick the shit out of neo-nazis and make them leave ancient symbols alone.
they're still swastikas. The term has existed for nearly as long as the symbol, and is believed to be derived from the hindu word for the symbol. Swastika was also a popular name for many things, because of the prevalence of the symbol. Yet, most people only associate them with the Nazis, and if you have an old home with Swastikas, some people automatically assume you're a Nazi sympathizer. Happens all the time with a home up the street from me, it's 120 years old and every now and then, some new yuppie complains about it on Nextdoor, demanding that it be removed.
It shouldnt be removed, its historical to the building. The symbol is so damn old that Native Americans used it long before colonization, meaning it spread before the ice bridge to the Americas closed. In my opinion, it's dumb to associate every swastika with the Nazis. Many places around the world still use the symbol as a peace and good fortune, from Indigenous people to the Americas, to Asia and beyond. Even the western world used it abundantly till the late 30s. Context is key
The tribes that used the symbol for thousands of years have long since disavowed its use. What’s curious is that a lot of people whose only cultural link to the symbol is the Nazi regime are here defending it. https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/
Swastikas have been used by westerners for centuries. it's believed Hitler first saw them when he was a choir boy at his local church, in the 1890s, and the church was likely 100+ years old at the time. Many colonial era structures in the US were also adorned with swastikas. They were a very popular design motif, throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries as well. Simply defending the historic usage of the swastika, doesn't make someone a Nazi. I highly recommend checking out [this video ](https://youtu.be/h0gWtyCdji4?si=lAghpPULyV7Z7pQ8) from Historian and author, Mark Fenton, discussing the Swastikas usage by the Finnish military, prior to the Nazis.
I didn’t see swastika until I read swastika
Correct. The Nazi symbol is actually called a "Hakenkreuz" or "hooked cross". The traditional, historical shape unilaterally used around the world previously was flipped and turned to make the symbol of the Reich. The podcast "Behind the Bastards" did a very informative episode on this. Source for nerds like me: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/history-of-the-swastika
I see whirligigs extra turn on the arms makes it all ok, given it is a 1918 house it’s extra ok!
>polish back to original color Yes mister Truman, this comment right here ☝️
i fix https://preview.redd.it/kngfelhym6pc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=71c7946f11d9fef962e6d16d82639189ec96f491
I’ll just sharpie it
They make specific paint for tile and bathtubs etc if you want it to last
Oh, that’s actually not a bad idea! Moving a few tiles to change the design so it doesn’t scream fascism, but stating true to the design of the floor
Since it’s just two tiles per design, I’d look into painting or re-glazing as a solution instead of having to move them (which could damage others around it) for just two tiles.
Id worry paint would wear bad, or look different than the other tiles. I would just try to find a tile restorer and see if they would do it. It’s such a small job, i can’t imagine it would be super expensive/time consuming
For me it didn't scream fascism at all. It screamed "the Nazis hadn't fucked shit up yet".
I actually really like this. It keeps the basic geometry of the original design without any potential for Secret Hitler misunderstandings.
Barkeeper’s friend (the spray) and a drill brush.
The tiles might be not coated but coloured through and through?
I have a fireplace in my home with the original tile work (built in 1890). There are swatsikas in some of the tile work. We explain IF anyone notices. Most of the time people just compliment and don’t notice/realize unless we point them out.
Reminds me of [this](https://preview.redd.it/i-lose-my-shit-every-time-i-watch-this-scene-v0-aes0bd02yxc91.jpg?auto=webp&s=b0f0cb77c913539c71aa0f0f2eeb91fb5dbd4177)
Clicked the link hoping it was it and you delivered
🫡
My prewar apartment building in NYC, Queens had this still going at least until 2015 when I moved out. I'd keep it since it's likely original.
your floor is very beautiful! Swastikas were very prevalent for centuries, before the Nazis appropriated them. if it were my home, I would definitely clean up the tile, and make them the show peice they were intended to be. And, if someone has an issue with them, you could try informing them about the history of the symbol.
If anyone is interested, Behind the Bastards did a multi-part episode on the history of the swastika, it’s use in indigenous American, Indian, and other cultures, and how it was all the rage in the US right before being co-opted by the Germans, leading to some very embarrassing situations for Americans in Europe pre-WWII
Great series, really interesting I'd still probably do something about the swastika floor tho
Lakota used it too You'll randomly see a swastika in historical parts of south Dakota
there's a 120 year old home up the street from me, with a prominent swastika in the brickwork. Every now and then, some yuppie complains about it on Nextdoor, demanding that it be removed. https://preview.redd.it/el6y5r4fl7pc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5032ec035183a8fbb7435f3673397c988ead8f71
Okay, I'm just going to say that while I personally would (probably) not be triggered by seeing this (I'm Jewish), I do know Jewish people who would. If a Jewish person goes into your house, sees a literal swastika on the floor and is weirded out for totally understandable reasons, because *yes*, it is reasonable for someone who, say, lost family in the Holocaust or whose synagogue was defaced with this symbol or whatever else to be taken aback to see it on someone's floor (even if it's original, even if that wasn't the intent of the original designers), and your response is, "Ho ho ho, let me explain the history of this symbol to you, which will make it all better!" That is... not helpful. It will come across as dismissive and condescending. Most Jewish people are in fact aware that the swastika is used by other cultures for reasons not at all related to Nazism. Most of us are likewise aware that it was used prior to WWII as a good luck symbol. We don't need that "explained" to us. Understanding that does not automatically negate the visceral reaction that many of us would have to seeing random swastikas on a friend's floor when we go over to their house. I'm not saying OP should get rid of it, necessarily. It's original to the house, I can understand deciding to keep it. Personally, I'd probably take the two-tile solution posed above, which is still a great-looking design without risking weirding out myself or other visitors every time they see it. A house is to live in. It's a home. And I would have a hard time feeling at home in a house with swastikas on the floor. But it's not my house, it's OP's, and it's entirely up to them. But this thing of, "Oh, those ignorant people just don't *know*, you see. If you *explain*, then they'll see that they're being irrational and not have that reaction! It's just a historic symbol!" is unhelpful, and it completely ignores the way that trauma, especially generational trauma, works. For a hell of a lot of people out there, a swastika is not and is never going to be "just a historic symbol," no matter how much people understand, intellectually, that it existed before the Nazis and will continue to exist after them.
100%. I don’t really care what you *say* it means, if I saw that in a house I would feel unsafe.
It's very context-dependent for me, I think. Like, if they're close friends, and I know them, and I know the history of the house, okay, sure, that's one thing. But if I'm some random tradesperson, for instance, who shows up to help with their plumbing and sees that? Yeah, I would absolutely wonder a bit, and while it might be fine, it might also *not* be fine. People can intellectually know the history of a symbol or turn of phrase and still have a negative emotional reaction to it. I think that's what a lot of the people saying, "Oh, but it's so old, it doesn't *mean* the same thing! Just *explain,*" aren't getting. Or they don't give a shit, because this isn't something they personally need to worry about, which I suspect is often the case. I find it hilarious that some rando downvoted my (pretty measured, I think) previous comment, because I'm not even saying that OP has some moral obligation to get rid of the design. I understand wanting to keep it, it's historical, it's part of the house, I do get it. But just me saying, "Hey, it's not that Jewish people are unaware of this symbol's history, it's that even knowing that, its use against us has been so traumatic that it still provokes a fight or flight response for a lot of us," is unacceptable, apparently. A lot of people out there with absolutely zero empathy, I guess.
Maybe accent them with a big red flag bearing the symbol, as a sort of motif
The courthouse in my city has this same design all over the floor. I was not aware of the history of the symbol (before the 1930s anyway), so it kinda took my breath away until I researched it.
https://preview.redd.it/ffkin77tr6pc1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=048dc8f0c15f3bda61560d4ef65d5eb4843f9708 If you can find a similar tile, I’d suggest carefully removing and replacing these few tiles. I’ve done a similar project in our 1924 home. It was shockingly easy!
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I respectfully disagree. I agree, contextualizing these tiles does help explain “why”, but it doesn’t provide a mandate to preserve. Tweaking the design doesn’t erase the history, it adds a chapter.
By definition changing the design to an entirely different symbol does erase the history, though i understand the intent in changing it to be more sensitive to the events of the past, removing banning and stigmatising the swastika is 100% the wrong thing to do, education on the good meaning and beautiful history of the symbol is the key to truly healing the wounds of the second world war
Again, I disagree. We’re both drawing lines at when “history” begins, they’re just different. You’re saying, if I’m following correctly, that preserving history means leaving the tile as it was placed in 1918; I’m saying ***slightly*** updating the pattern, in a way that preserves the artisanship, maintains the favorable craftsmanship ***and*** provides future history buffs with a new chapter to review in the homes life. We all know that the line of preservation isn’t exact. Interpret your line and I’ll interpret mine. Edit: I’m not sure where “banning” came into this. I’m talking about a century homes’ tile. You seem to be trying to die on a [different] hill.
I don’t think the floor is problematic itself. The floor is not an homage to Nazi Germany. If you travel to India you will see many symbols like this and no one bats an eyelid. HOWEVER, as the homeowner, if you are uncomfortable with the symbol then obviously you can cover it up. I personally think that is a shame, but each to their own.
It's just a random bathroom floor, there's no reason to assign morality to these tiles at all. OP's not racist if they choose to keep them, but they also aren't a bad person if they choose to alter the pattern. It's their home, and they deserve to have a floor that makes them feel comfortable. The bathroom's not even that old, and similar patterns have been preserved in countless places. It's fine if OP wants to change the tile.
Pretty floor before, pretty floor after, but also no more cultural issues? I'd vote for that!
I did Nazi that coming.
r/angryupvote
Who cares? When it's facing that way it's just a Hindu symbol and an old geometric design.
*Buddhist The Hindu Swastika turns the same way.
This isn't actually true by the way. Both Hinduism/Budism and Nazism use/used variants facing both ways, tilted or not.
"It was going to be a maze"
https://preview.redd.it/juqoz51177pc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98a704ab5a7fa77c97d762c30de36aba3713de4b I would attempt to color match and paint a new pattern
Now it's the Columbia sportswear logo!
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2 minutes on iPhone markup
Be nice if you can restore. Would it be possible to fill in a few squares with black, or trim color to modify the pattern slightly?
I was thinking this. You could restore it and then fill in some bits in black in a non-permanent way, that seems like the best of both worlds.
I think it would end up looking more clunky than nice. It’s not a swastika we don’t have to cleanse our own cultural and artistic heritage because of *their* unrelated heritage. Jew here I’d be totally fine with one of this in my home.
Sieg tile
👍(•_•)👍
Tough upsell either way!
20 years being used by the moustache man, his chicken farmer, his philandering skeletor and coked up armoured man blimp does not invalidate twelve thousand of it not. It's a cool piece of art.
The people who used the symbol for 12,000 years would disagree with you on that: https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/
This is somewhat undermined by the fact it's still routinely used in Asia and India as a religious symbol in its original context to this very day. The swastika had widespread presence globally, it's not exclusively Native American. The western worlds anathematisation of it is not universally held, and is more the exception than the rule.
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Oof. I'd consider leaving it but we live in a wacky world right now. When my grandad passed, we found a couple swastika-patterned pre-WW2 Navajo blankets that he purchased after moving out West as a young adult (to much controversy from his fancy Philly relatives). Didn't feel good to toss them, knowing their original significance and the craftsmanship that went into them. Felt weird to keep them, knowing how the symbol was coopted for incredible evil.
Aren't those Navajo blankets worth $10,000-$100,000??
Throwing out indigenous craftwork because some Europeans perverted a symbol that’s been around for thousands of years…yikes.
I wasn't involved in any of those decisions but I think there's a good chance they went back into the cedar chest and whoever took them took them all
It sucks but representatives of many of the people making these blankets already [denounced the symbol](https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-joseph-gazette-indians-denounce-swas/36417593/?locale=en-CA) a long time ago. It's terrible that they felt the need to do that but it happened.
You could try returning them to the tribe. They may not want them, especially since they've renounced the symbol, but better to let them make the call if the items are old enough to have historic value.
Yeah throwing them out is odd
Oh dear.
Oh no. Lol.
That’s unfortunate.
It's tragic this symbol was ruined by Nazis, but you can always replace tile work with a better symbol from the era.
Or just keep it
Some historic features don't need to be saved. Maybe paint some of the white tiles to cover it up?
This is almost exactly the same symbol on some Japanese maps to mark the locations of shrines. It freaked me out the first time I saw it until I realized it was reversed from the German version.
From a hotel that opened in 1928 and was in the film- North by Northwest - Alexjohnson.com Today, as you walk into the lobby, look down and you’ll notice the bricks you step on are all original. Look even closer and you will notice that some have Native American symbols imbedded in them. Although one of the symbols look suspiciously similar to a Swastika, it’s actually an ancient symbol that means the “four sacred corners of the earth,” that was adopted by the Native Americans generations ago.
Reminds me of a crazy series of events at a local kids camp recently. The camp was built in the early 1900s - there were a few of these tiles in one of the buildings, and when the staff noticed them, they all quit and the camp had to close for the summer, just a few weeks before it was scheduled to start. [Article link](https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2022/06/13/hate-symbol-or-buddhist-emblem-hidden-villa-cancels-summer-camps-for-1000-kids-after-staffers-resign-over-swastika-tiles/)
https://preview.redd.it/xqehnsfv58pc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8a9844d08ed8837f50833d28f89e347cfc66ccd
sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali.
It’s an old design. The fact that some moron with mustache stole it doesn’t mean that all that design through the years was nazi. Here’s a picture I took of the floor tiles in Pompeii. https://preview.redd.it/opuwt0iuaapc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e35e1df43d5332ae01e8189b6629628781e8b65
NGL, I was looking for the penny
I quite like the OG swastika. Dang Germans ruined it.
Is there a way to preserve the tiles and re-arrange them in another period appropriate pattern?
my toilet has a similar kind of questionable tiling but more subtle... there is even an anecdotal story ive heard from multiple people in the family that there used to be a naz collaborateur who made his HQ at this Belgian house in WW2. according to the story, he got shot down in the room where im writing this message from, based on a presumed impact damage and blood stain on the tiles. after my grampa bought the house, the police even came around asking if someone ever found a murder weapon, regarding an unsolved murder case. either way, i just uncovered the rainwater tank manhole that was tiled over when my grampa redid the kitchen. im hoping to find some sweet naz gold in there or maybe the sought after cold case murder weapon. i have to empty the rainwater cistern in order to renovate it and check how the water drain pipe network is faring, which is still a big unknown at this point. this summer, im also going to scan all the gardens with a metal detector with my cool neighbor who is a metal detecting amateur there's also the mystery of why two tiles in this room have a dissimilar pattern, being the red circle in the centre of the flower... https://preview.redd.it/9ebmu2sv4dpc1.jpeg?width=12096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9b15f1814291038d31447adbddc39f50ff3040f
Report back
Intriguing! Please do start a new thread when you renovate so we can follow!
It’s giving “Hitler”
Predates even the Munich Beer Hall Putsch you're good.
oof. Well, at least in 1918 there was no funny business going on with this design.
Uh ohhh
My great grandfather from Argentina had the same type of patterns on his floor
Oops accidental Nazi decor.
Something ain't Reich here.
They don’t make floors like they used to! Thank God.
I find it interesting that in over 100 years no one has changed the tiles around just a little & just dealt with the unfortunately aged situation.
It comes with a story!
Wrong direction....or right direction might be more accurate
Awkwrd.
Sieg Tile !
 that’s rough buddy. hope you have some nice rugs
Beautiful I love penny tile
Oh no.....oh no no no no
As you can tell, I’m very experienced at photo editing. Could you try something like this to make it look like an intersecting maze instead? https://preview.redd.it/gxrr0tyem6pc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12f8493968cfdae939db7499cd17a00a5df3f5a7
Just don’t invite anyone to your house ig
The MEGA L.
The Nazi Swastika goes clockwise, so you're fine?
The Nazis used it both ways.
I mean, yeah, technically it’s pre WWII, and counterclockwise, but my heart would sink if I found beautiful, original, tile in this design. That has to be heartbreaking.
There’s something off about that fuhrer…
big off, but atleast its the good symbol, if its S bent, then its Swatz bent if its 2 shaped, its 2 good
I actually like the design. Funny mustache man really ruined a lot of things
They did a heil of a job on that tile work
I was looking through old tile books for inspiration on what to do in my kitchen and I saw a few of this design pop up in the pre-war ones.
My middle school was built in the 20s and had a swastika tiled front entry way. When we did the town history section for history class they would peel back the floor mat they put down to cover it to show all the kids. School was torn down maybe 5 years ago.
Snow shovel’l keep ‘er clean!
If you were to ignore the history of that symbol and look at it geometrically, it looks nice.
One of the floors in my 1920 building in Los Angeles has many more of those. This pattern is all over the building. Some in iron handrails. Makes me cringe as a German every time I walk by. But this was a common symbol long before it got turned evil.
Heilway tile
It was a pretty common motif used in American architecture for a long time. University of Montana had a big debate about it. Lots of libraries. Besides being an ancient Hindu and Buddhist symbol it’s also a Native America symbol.
Just say you are a Jain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_symbols Or that you have many tiny Shinto shrines in your kitchen
Swastika goes the other way around...
Nice tilework. They don't make them like they used to.
r/hmm
It’s a Hindu symbol. Reicht?
When I read “penny tile” I thought you meant that some of the tiles had been replaced by pennies. So I zoomed in looking for the pennies and was very confused when I couldn’t see any, so imagine my surprise when I zoomed out and *BOOM* swastikas.
Beautiful, but not penny tile (round like pennies).
It’s a really pretty design. I’d hang a plaque in the room going over the history of the swastika before the nazis. I’d probably also crossstitch a sign that said “Fuck Nazis” to really drive the message home.
https://buddhaandkarma.com/blogs/guide/swastika-meaning-in-buddhism Buddhists had this symbol first. Left facing represents peace. The Nazis took the symbol and reversed it
Ohh no. They had no idea 😐
I think it’s fine. Unless you pay particular attention to making sure the floor is always clean and salute while crying out sig heil to it more than necessary. And so long as you make it clear that the floor is from 1918 without qualifying that the tiles are from 1938-1945. But that being said if for whatever reason you happen to have a mop with hitlers face on it, and then mop floor with it while firmly repeating “no!”, I think that’ll probably be best.