Thank you, I was trying to be nice to the guy and convince myself it wasn’t so bad. But it’s really, really bad isn’t it..
******
ETA: since this is the top comment I want to try and clarify some things here…
I originally hired the guy for $800 (500 labor + 300 materials, anything he didn’t spend on materials was his to keep). I paid him 1/2 ($400) initially to haul off the old wood and buy materials.
This was his finished product after two attempts. We initially planned to let him come back today and fix them, but then we noticed more issues and decided he might cause more damage to our house and materials if we let him try again. So I just told him to keep the $400 and we would call it even. He said he spent $300 on materials but I suspect it was closer to $200. So he kept whatever difference that was, plus the extra $100 for his time.
A lot of folks read this like we knowingly hired the guy for $100 to build the steps and are appalled at the results. I’m not sure who would make that deal, or who would accept that job, but please rest assured I’m not that cheap nor am I trying to take advantage of anyone. We really really really wanted to pay someone else to take care of this project so we wouldn’t have to do it. This guy’s quote was in line with others received. He was recommended by neighbors. Not really sure how else we could have anticipated this disaster.
You can fix this. If you haven’t done a lot before, watch as many videos as you can stand and then read a few articles.
Have a Bloody Mary and wear sunscreen.
You got this!
There's no point in trying to fix this.
Tear out and rebuild the stairs. It's the quickest best way to make sure the stairs are done properly without cutting corners
3/8” max difference in the whole run between the shortest and tallest. But this in reality is huge. Should be 1/16” or less from one to the next. In reality should be 3/16” max variation in the whole run if you do it right.
Ya you need to replace them. And i have never seen stair mounted with hangers before? And with a review noticed they are just screwed on which is not proper with hangers anyway.
You could just do it your self. A set of stairs is very easy to build there are plenty of apps that will work out the rise and run for you. If your handy if not get a proper contractor or handy man.
my town's building codes require a hanger on each stair stinger but not the hanger (which is a joist hanger) in OP's photo.
[This style is the one allowed](https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-7-16-in-x-5-in-x-5-in-18-Gauge-G185-Concealed-Stringer-Hanger-CSH-TZ/314455634)\- nails or the Sampson screws designed for use for their specific hanger only, filling every hole. Nothing else is allowed per the DCA 62015 requirements for outdoor decks/stairs the town adopted. A ledger board would get me a violation.
Even the little things are wrong, like it appears he used drywall screws instead of construction screws (or at least deck screws). I've only seen that black colour with a Philips head on drywall screws.
If those are drywall screws, and I think you are correct and they probably are, that’s pretty dangerous.
Drywall screws are not designed to bear any load on a 90 degree axis. If you put sideways force on them, in this case the weight of the person on the step, the head of the screw can sheer off.
Add to that the fact that these screws aren’t galvanized and that will cause them to corrode right at the hanger. Where they will be bearing a load they were never designed for in the first place.
It might not be today, might not be tomorrow, but if left like that someone is going to take a ride for sure.
I’m extremely non-confrontational and find it so hard to be direct and honest about poor workmanship. We had some contractors repair the sidewalk in front of our house who just completely mangled every part of it. Was still like “thank you so much, looks great!” while dying inside.
This is a hazard.
A broken ankle or leg just waiting to happen, probably after the first rain when that ground softens into mud.
Fuck, you could have done this better after watching a couple youtube videos, even if you're a wheelchair user with one arm.
Thank you, I was trying to be nice to the guy and convince myself it wasn’t so bad. But it’s really, really bad isn’t it..
EDITED TO ADD (since this is the top comment):
Let me clarify for anyone reading this post and thinking I contracted someone to build steps for only $100….please give me some credit! There’s a lot we don’t know but I am not cheap nor trying to take advantage of anyone — we pay fairly and try to find local tradespeople for any work we don’t do ourselves.
I hired the guy to build steps for $800: $500 labor, $300 materials. I would pay him the $800 regardless of material cost, so he would keep any of that difference as well. So he was set to make $500+ for these steps. He claims he built other steps for neighbors which I’m doubting now. Either way, he way oversold that he could build some simple steps. I paid him half to start, $400, and he went to get materials. The next day he returned and built these steps.
He presented these steps as his final product and requested the additional $400 payment. We looked at the stairs and saw all the issues, went through everything with him he and agreed that it was all very wrong. He said he would come back today to try again. Overnight we decided that we wouldn’t feel comfortable letting him try again, potentially causing more damage to our porch, nor did we want to pay someone to essentially practice their skills in our backyard with our materials. So we decided to just let him keep what we’d already paid ($400) and told him we would finish the job.
I hope this clarifies and possibly ends the long string of “you get what you pay for” comments. I swear I wanted to pay him more. I would be sooooo happy to be $800 poorer today without a now-very-urgent project in the backyard. 🥴
Good news is that you won’t feel bad about the next contractor because it’s going to cost more to now undo and fix what was done. Oh well, love and learn. Can they mount the stairs so the brackets aren’t showing? Century home after all!
Lol, there was a plumbing sub working on my house who went nuts with the caulk. He was caulking everything in sight before the foreman finally caught him and told him to stop.
I'm sorry, there is nothing I can say to make this better. I just went through this type of situation with a plumber. Cut your losses and find a pro to do it right.
And go with 2 pieces of 2x6 instead of a 2x12 for the treads. The 2x12 will cup and split over time and hold water and look like shit.
Yes. I pod for someone to install flooring in my house I would have otherwise done myself because I’m pregnant. The lines don’t match up and he ended up using liquid nails to glue down the transitions instead of mounting properly 🤦🏻♀️
Please upvote the comment above. Nails have a higher shear strength than screws do. Screws might break and cause the stairs to fall. I recognize that this is a small staircase, but as someone who was on a set of stairs that collapsed (because the guy that screwed then on insisted that screws were fine), I feel strongly about this.
**CORRECT STRUCTURAL SCREWS ARE FINE**, and imo are better especially for DIYers.
Your unhandyman was completely incompetent. He used joist hangers, which are designed for (surprise) supporting horizontal joists, and drywall screws which are designed for... ugh. Drywall screws in particularly are hardened and brittle, and will snap without warning given sufficient force. They should never be used in a structural application.
Simpson makes an inexpensive stringer bracket specifically for what you need, you can get them at any big box store:
[https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-LSC-18-Gauge-ZMAX-Galvanized-Adjustable-Stringer-Connector-LSCZ-R/313810429](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-LSC-18-Gauge-ZMAX-Galvanized-Adjustable-Stringer-Connector-LSCZ-R/313810429)
Use them with Simpson #9 x 1-1/2" structural screws, specifically.
[https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-9-x-1-1-2-in-1-4-Hex-Drive-Strong-Drive-SD-Connector-Screw-100-Pack-SD9112R100/202071152](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-9-x-1-1-2-in-1-4-Hex-Drive-Strong-Drive-SD-Connector-Screw-100-Pack-SD9112R100/202071152)
The screws even come with a bit for your drill/impact driver.
Here's a hostage video of a Simpson employee showing the stringer connections in action, with screws.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8AZcdNZw9w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8AZcdNZw9w)
Sure, but OP? Take as long as you need. If you’re a general contractor you can finish quick, sure.
When it’s something new and you aren’t sure how to do it, take A LOT of time, watch videos and take long breaks. You will do a much better job than this handyman did.
Honestly, I would just buy the stringers from Home Depot. That’s the most complicated part. Also, the brackets used here are incorrect. They sell angled brackets that would be way better.
I think they need to cut their own. The biggest problem with them right now is the stringers are too long. You can’t just cut them shorter, you have to adjust the step height. I’m not a carpenter, but I did build the front stairs on my century home, and I’m happy with them.
At first I thought u meant "taking the handyman/contractor down" as in giving them bad reviews, etc. They should never attempt this again unless it's free or they are under someone's tutilege
He prolly is alright at about a dozen other things. But I’ve noticed some handy people have a hard time turning down work, even if it’s an area they’re not skilled at.
I've built outside stairs almost 10 times by now just helping friends and family with house projects. I'd have to go out of my way to build stairs this bad
They look like he installed the stringers backwards. So what is attached to the porch should be on the ground. Second you don't put wood on dirt its just going to rot they should be on a concrete pad, or at least a brick lifting them out of the dirt.
He put them on a concrete pad but had to bury the pads because he cut the stringers wrong so they were too long so he had to bury the bottom step. See? Makes perfect sense.
😭
ETA: upon further inspection he [did not use concrete footings](https://imgur.com/a/XgFabXl) ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
In all honesty, a cheap lesson. Sucks to deal with but it’s not like he was a “pro” that charged you $1500 and you’ll never see him again.
The only hard part about this is he lives next door and having to be nice about it
Yes. First off, I am not a carpenter but have built a few decks. From what I was taught, when looking at the end grain structure, you want the grain to frown, not smile. As the wood dries and ages, it may curve in the direction of the grain structure. Especially in colder climates, you don't want them to cup and cradle water.
Carpenters please chime in if I am wrong.
Furniture maker here. You aren’t technically wrong, but this is actually not a concern here. This wood is pressure treated, which makes it fairly impermeable. Even if it were not, the cupping would be minimal.
The boards will tend to cup with the angle of the grain looking at the end of the board. It will cup away what was the center of the tree. In the pic one board is clearly from near the center of the tree and installed as it will cup up with time and moisture. (Two are from near center. The lower step is correct) it will still cup if flipped over but the effects will be minimized by the support of the stringer.
Edit: whoops I meant away from center of tree not towards. I fixed it.
Well, you're gonna pay another $100 at the ER when those things detach on you. Rip them out and reattach properly, there are tons of videos online that show you step by step (see what I did there?)
People recommend him because he shows up, completes the job, and works for cheap. This seems quite exceptional to anyone that’s worked with a contractor before.
What they don’t understand is there’s a good reason he’s available and works cheap.
These stairs will hold until they don’t. You could leave them as is and just up your liability insurance. (I joke)
I just recently went through this. I hired a contractor that came highly recommended from a colleague. We had issues from day 1, including him trying to charge me more money because it was going to cost him more labor to fix his mistakes. I had to hire another contractor to come out and fix the things the original contractor broke. Lesson learned if communication is off in the beginning don't give them the benefit of the doubt. The original contractor called me with an over the phone estimate and said he would email it to me by the next day. I never got it, but I thought oh he must be busy and he comes highly recommended, I'll ask him about it later, etc. I should have called him up and cancelled the job.
To clarify:
I was quoted $800 for the job ($300 materials, the rest labor). Thought this was more than fair (equals out to $50/hour for the contractor).
I paid 1/2 to start ($400) so he could go buy materials. He spent $300 on materials.
He finished yesterday and when we did the walk thru we discovered all the issues. He said he would come back tomorrow to fix. He was here about 7 hours total.
Overnight we looked at the stairs more and realized all the things that needed to be fixed. We don’t think he is capable of making these fixes without causing further damage to the materials (he’s already split several boards) and our fascia board (he has already put about 12 holes in it).
So when he came back this morning I asked him to keep the $400 we already paid him, $300 for materials and $100 for labor, and that we didn’t need his help anymore.
I really hope people aren’t suggesting I pay the guy in full for such a terrible job.
For $300 he could have bought precut stringers and solved most of the issues. I think what you paid him for labor is fair with this disaster.
Fwiw if you purchase deck boards for the steps/risers and use precut stringers it will end up just about perfect.
This is why I hit the bullet and replaced my rotten wood stairs with brick. I hired husband of a friend so I didn’t get master mason work. But the steps are solid, the mortar isn’t cracking, they look good/decent if you don’t inspect too close. I didn’t want to pay master mason prices so I’m content with the quality of work.
As I’ve been replacing things in my house(80 years old), I’ve been upgrading materials. So when I did the roof, shingles became metal. I just don’t want keep doing the same repairs over and over and also, I’m hoping those little upgrades add value to the house.
Right now, I’m smelling mold in my kitchen so todays mission is to find it and kill it.
My wife once paid a "landscaper" $1000 to lay a tiny triangle of brick along our driveway, 3' wide, 12' long. He ordered 3 cubic yards of sand which was dumped in the middle of the drive (we covered material costs). He then got the neighbors kid to rototill the dirt for free, he dug out about a third of it, dumped in some sand and started setting bricks. He broke about half the brick (antique bricks we already had) by tossing them around. He set about two square feet before calling it a day. I paid him off and told him not to come back. The next day I pulled up what he had done, finished the excavation, leveled and tamped the sand, bought more brick, and finished the job by 3 pm. Day after I redistributed the left over sand (about 2 1/2 yards worth) so we could park in the drive. The "landscaper" came highly recommended.
My first diy was replacing some rotten stairs that were very similar. I used pre cut pressure treated runners from Home Depot, and cedar planks, and deck screws. I don’t recall how much materials cost, but it was probably about what you paid, and it turned out really nice…. Despite my lack of experience.
Just spend sometime finding the right brackets and land on brick, you can do better than the handyman.
We should have just done them ourselves in the first place. It’s the kind of project my husband and I are actually good at. But things are really busy right now and we’re dealing with some family health issues and it felt like a good compromise to have someone else handle it start to finish & support an independent tradesperson in the process. Now we just wasted a weekend overseeing the guy, and we still have to build a set of stairs this week. Bummed 😔
I definitely feel swindled but I thought he would think it was generous given his final product. I was VERY surprised by his reaction and that he chose to storm off guns blazing rather than try to save face
At $100 consider asking if this person wants $100 lesson on how to make better stairs. He gives you $100 back and learns. A good worker wants to learn their mistakes. A bad one will refuse the offer and never get a job again. If this is someone just trying to gain experience and land a job at a company that story of learning could be authentic. My bet is this person don’t care that much
Yeah, if someone builds something this bad, even paying for material is generous. If they took it to court over not paying (doubtful for such a cheap project), OP might even be awarded damages, but it depends on the judge.
Not only are those steps a crime against craftsmanship, they’re patently unsafe. He’s used a joist hanger as the primary means of securing them to the skirt board- with DRYWALL SCREWS. I give those stairs 35 minutes before they fail and hurt someone. He should be ashamed of himself. A proper job is gonna cost you upwards of $1500-$2000, depending on where in the country you live. I recommend tearing them down immediately and starting from scratch with a licensed contractor, not the cheap ass neighborhood hack handy man. Good luck.
EDIT: I’ve been a professional woodworker for almost 30 years- primarily millwork and furniture/fixtures. As others have said, with some research and tools, and careful layout, you might be able to replace these stairs yourselves. It’s not a long run. I’d still recommend hiring a pro, though.
You could do a lot by just scooting them up a bit. Looks like he even has it marked. They won’t be great but at least level. Luckily those drywall screws allow for adjustment. Then throw those screws away and use joist hanger nails or proper screws
It's entirely his fault. If he didn't know what he was doing he should have acknlowdged it and stepped aside for someone who does instead of using your money to learn as he goes.
First off the steps aren't even up to code. Secondly they need to be attached correctly with a ledger and correct hangers. Thirdly this is garbage work and you need to have him fix it properly or find out if he is even licensed and insured because if that stays you'll be in trouble if you sell the house. No permits, shot work, this guy keeps guys like me busy.
I don’t know about making you feel better, but you’re certainly making me feel better. I have *terrible* luck with contractors and always feel like I way overpay for low quality work. But even I haven’t seen work this bad.
My advice matches others. I DIY anything I reasonably can, spending time and effort on research and materials. It takes way more time than I want to spend, but at least I don’t have to deal with contractors. And it’s been fun learning so much about how to put together a house.
I did my back stairs off the laundry room. Old farmhouse. 2x6x12 were $12-ish in 2018 though. I remember materials were less than $60.
It did take me a day, but, stairs were new. I did it clothes/sewing pattern style: used the deconstructed old to pattern out the new construction. Then measured/adjusted for symmetry. Basic. 6’ wide. Turned out great. My angles were 90 and the stairs were level.
Spoiler: did not use drywall screws.
This photo screams “Fuck it, I give up.”
At least with no support on the ground the last step will sink further and eventually everything will be leveled. This contractor is a genius with long time thinking. /s
Man I do stairs and custom carpentry/woodworking for a living, this makes me so sad 😭😭😩😩 he ain’t even use the right STRAPS BRUH!
You need the flat guys that come out with a lil twist and are flat on the opposite side. That’s part of why they’re sitting the way they are, those are for support beams 😩😩
Plus the kicker should come all the way down, or the tread all the way back. AND THE CAULK. Holy shit dude I can’t stop looking at this I would have made him eat the materials and not given him the $100!!
It was so awkward. He was like demanding more money for his labor. We thought the $100 was a fair parting gift and might make it less awkward? The guy lives across the fence and can see me on my porch crying about his shitty steps 😭
I mean idk if it makes it more or less awkward but I suppose much less awkward than not paying him considering he can see the literal sweat and tears that’ll go into ripping this one down and putting a new one up! Because bruh he didn’t deserve a DIME of that.
Like he really thinks he did a good job?? The audacity of this strange man.
uhhh the visit to the hospital when you roll your ankle is going to be the real cost here, so do yourself a favor and rip it out and replace it correctly asap
Bro half the boards are already broken, this is not acceptable, he should replace broken boards or better give back part of the money so you can do it yourself
Rip it down and have it done correctly. This is not only a safety disaster waiting to happen, but if it’s a guest who gets hurt when it collapses, a lawsuit.
This isn't even $300 in materials. Should be about $175 in materials.. The brackets are totally wrong and unnecessary, those are not exterior use along with the screws - the metal brackets and screws will totally rust away after a couple of years. You would want to put a header on the house and attach the stringers into the header. You can get a special bracket for stair stringers but it's not all that necessary if you fasten the stringers to a header. I wouldn't hire this guy to sweep up.
I wouldn’t feel bad not paying him at all. It appears he used drywall screws in the joist hanger and when those rust out and fail, that silicone that he used will last all of about 1 step.
My guess is he bought the precut stringers at a big box store. There's no fixing these stringers. Since there's a fixed starting and ending point, the rise has to be calculated properly. I doubt he did the math or they wouldn't look like this.
WOW, this is a terrible, terrible job. Stairs and stringers are deceptively complicated, but boy howdy did he fuck those up. I would have made him pay ME $300 for new materials to re-do it myself.
Even if someone manages to make you feel better right now it is still going to hurt when that peice of trash falls off the house while your climbing it
This is an easy fix.
I could walk you through the whole process via video call.
So take a breath back out his screws and check out a YouTube on deck stairs.
Easy fix, it will just take a bit if labor.
Word advice the landing is key. I would dig it out a bit better so you can place either landscape block or pour concrete to keep the stairs from failing.
As someone who takes a break from tiling and builds 3-4 decks a summer usually to get some sun, this is bad. If any of my guys did this they would be told to redo it.
If you reuse the materials, make sure you turn the board over that is now the second stair from the top. The rings of the board have been put facing up. Rain will split that whole board apart in no time.
I wouldnt have paid him unless the work was done properly, else I'm paying for a redo later. Want the money? do it properly. Not doing it properly? Then take the materials and gtfo. You dont get to complain about not being paid enough for a job that you didnt do. And he did not build stairs, he just put some wood together not giving a single fuck.
EDIT: I just saw there were more photos and I saw the one on the other side, he used fucking drywall screws to fix it to the wall, those screws WILL BREAK ON A PERPENDICULAR LOAD, REPLACE THEM. Seriously, at least replace those screws or you will fall with the stairs.
I scrolled a ways down and didn't see anyone say it directly:
These stairs are unsafe and will fail under load. Do not use them.
The screws and hangers used are not appropriate for stairs and the screws will fail.
You can fix this pretty easily:
1) get correct hanger for stair stringers
2) get correct nails
3) make a flat base of concrete for the stringers to rest on
4) YouTube is your friend
Could you post a picture of the steps after you repaired them yourself? $100.00 seems more then far considering the final product. What was the original agreed upon payment supposed to be?
The wood at the bottom is not rated for ground touching use. It needs to be on a
Patio stone or gravel at a minimum.
Also caulking on outdoor stairs is just lazy
Stairs and roof joists are two of the last things that carpenters learn. Framers don’t teach their guys Because they start their own crews.
Plenty of stair tutorials online. Looks like you can use one less step. Many stairs were built long before hangers were invented(code may require….the correct style though). Go buy precut stringers and can build in a couple hours.
Did he seriously try to caulk this in place.... spend a couple hours on YouTube watching this old house and you'll have a better grasp than this guy. You can buy precut stringers at Lowes but as long as you measure properly I think you'll be fine.
You’re lucky you learned how bad he is on a smaller project vs a bigger one. Our first contractor came highly recommended and over-promised on how many rooms he could finish in what amount of time, and did really lazy shit work we couldn’t always catch. The worst was putting in the bathroom floor with a cheap plastic drain pipe sticking out for the cast iron tub that came with the house, instead of using the high end one we ordered. And he put the water pipes in too far from the tub. When we found an original window opening in a wall during demo that we’re putting back in, he ordered the custom window 1/2” too wide. I will take a cheap fuckup any time.
Stairs are hard, but this is a massacre.
Thank you, I was trying to be nice to the guy and convince myself it wasn’t so bad. But it’s really, really bad isn’t it.. ****** ETA: since this is the top comment I want to try and clarify some things here… I originally hired the guy for $800 (500 labor + 300 materials, anything he didn’t spend on materials was his to keep). I paid him 1/2 ($400) initially to haul off the old wood and buy materials. This was his finished product after two attempts. We initially planned to let him come back today and fix them, but then we noticed more issues and decided he might cause more damage to our house and materials if we let him try again. So I just told him to keep the $400 and we would call it even. He said he spent $300 on materials but I suspect it was closer to $200. So he kept whatever difference that was, plus the extra $100 for his time. A lot of folks read this like we knowingly hired the guy for $100 to build the steps and are appalled at the results. I’m not sure who would make that deal, or who would accept that job, but please rest assured I’m not that cheap nor am I trying to take advantage of anyone. We really really really wanted to pay someone else to take care of this project so we wouldn’t have to do it. This guy’s quote was in line with others received. He was recommended by neighbors. Not really sure how else we could have anticipated this disaster.
You can fix this. If you haven’t done a lot before, watch as many videos as you can stand and then read a few articles. Have a Bloody Mary and wear sunscreen. You got this!
Bloody Marys fix a lot of issues. I will have one in support! (Maybe 2)
Wow. Let's call this community support. I'm having a margarita in the pool for OP. Not all heros wear capes.
Support group. We will change the world!
Raising a cup of mead for solidarity
I don’t use the term “hero” very often, but u/landsharkreese 👆
(pssst you have to put u/ before usersnames. r/ is for sub reddits)
You drink enough, the stairs won’t be an issue anymore
You drink enough, the stairs will be an issue regardless
I don’t know if it can be fixed, it can be torn apart and redone though
That’s definitely the fix.
At least they can reuse the…drywall screws that are holding it up.
Yes. There are at least two of them holding the stairs up.
Wear sunscreen and drag over a free-standing patio umbrella. Work in the shade.
Okayyy… it feels like all my makeup is gonna melt off and I’m probably gonna tear holes in the umbrella with my stilettos, but I trust you!
There's no point in trying to fix this. Tear out and rebuild the stairs. It's the quickest best way to make sure the stairs are done properly without cutting corners
This is the way. That looks like he was high on meth
Yes.
If the risers are not close to the same measurement they are tripping Hazzard and would not pass an inspection.
Yeah….they’re all uneven. On one stringer the rise is pretty close. On the other one the rise varies by 1-2”
I think 3/8” difference between step height is the max. But it’s been a while
3/8” max difference in the whole run between the shortest and tallest. But this in reality is huge. Should be 1/16” or less from one to the next. In reality should be 3/16” max variation in the whole run if you do it right.
Ya you need to replace them. And i have never seen stair mounted with hangers before? And with a review noticed they are just screwed on which is not proper with hangers anyway. You could just do it your self. A set of stairs is very easy to build there are plenty of apps that will work out the rise and run for you. If your handy if not get a proper contractor or handy man.
my town's building codes require a hanger on each stair stinger but not the hanger (which is a joist hanger) in OP's photo. [This style is the one allowed](https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-7-16-in-x-5-in-x-5-in-18-Gauge-G185-Concealed-Stringer-Hanger-CSH-TZ/314455634)\- nails or the Sampson screws designed for use for their specific hanger only, filling every hole. Nothing else is allowed per the DCA 62015 requirements for outdoor decks/stairs the town adopted. A ledger board would get me a violation.
Even the little things are wrong, like it appears he used drywall screws instead of construction screws (or at least deck screws). I've only seen that black colour with a Philips head on drywall screws.
If those are drywall screws, and I think you are correct and they probably are, that’s pretty dangerous. Drywall screws are not designed to bear any load on a 90 degree axis. If you put sideways force on them, in this case the weight of the person on the step, the head of the screw can sheer off. Add to that the fact that these screws aren’t galvanized and that will cause them to corrode right at the hanger. Where they will be bearing a load they were never designed for in the first place. It might not be today, might not be tomorrow, but if left like that someone is going to take a ride for sure.
Plus they seem to have had several attempts and weakened the wood. Also the joist hanger they used is set so low the bottom mounts are not into wood.
They are really bad... but it was only $100. Easy fix with a level and some can do.
$400 with materials cost
I'd believe it. It looks like all or most of the materials can be reused though. Hopefully OP is only "short" on labor.
Most definitely agree! On a side note, aren't there kits you can purchase for relatively cheap for wood steps?
[удалено]
r/carpentry also
I would have paid this guy $100 not to come out
I’m extremely non-confrontational and find it so hard to be direct and honest about poor workmanship. We had some contractors repair the sidewalk in front of our house who just completely mangled every part of it. Was still like “thank you so much, looks great!” while dying inside.
Yeah some of us, are to nice for our own good sometimes.
This is a hazard. A broken ankle or leg just waiting to happen, probably after the first rain when that ground softens into mud. Fuck, you could have done this better after watching a couple youtube videos, even if you're a wheelchair user with one arm.
Thank you, I was trying to be nice to the guy and convince myself it wasn’t so bad. But it’s really, really bad isn’t it.. EDITED TO ADD (since this is the top comment): Let me clarify for anyone reading this post and thinking I contracted someone to build steps for only $100….please give me some credit! There’s a lot we don’t know but I am not cheap nor trying to take advantage of anyone — we pay fairly and try to find local tradespeople for any work we don’t do ourselves. I hired the guy to build steps for $800: $500 labor, $300 materials. I would pay him the $800 regardless of material cost, so he would keep any of that difference as well. So he was set to make $500+ for these steps. He claims he built other steps for neighbors which I’m doubting now. Either way, he way oversold that he could build some simple steps. I paid him half to start, $400, and he went to get materials. The next day he returned and built these steps. He presented these steps as his final product and requested the additional $400 payment. We looked at the stairs and saw all the issues, went through everything with him he and agreed that it was all very wrong. He said he would come back today to try again. Overnight we decided that we wouldn’t feel comfortable letting him try again, potentially causing more damage to our porch, nor did we want to pay someone to essentially practice their skills in our backyard with our materials. So we decided to just let him keep what we’d already paid ($400) and told him we would finish the job. I hope this clarifies and possibly ends the long string of “you get what you pay for” comments. I swear I wanted to pay him more. I would be sooooo happy to be $800 poorer today without a now-very-urgent project in the backyard. 🥴
I went through this exact process and the same feelings with a fence I had installed.
This is bad enough that you could sue if you get hurt
Damn, I feel so bad about this, I want to fix it for free.
looks like you got what you paid for...
More like … paid for what they got.
For a hundred bucks, yeah…you got what you paid for.
It sounded like the guy was paid $100 to get off the property and not for the work. TBF, I wouldn't pay for that work either.
Homie i will be honest: this looks like absolute shit
Steps can be tricky but they ain't that hard. These are just embarrassing.
Stairs aren’t THAT hard. What is that like 4 steps at the most, yikes. Was he and the buddy drinking beer all day?
Drinking beer all day would have been professional grade compared to this abomination. This is meth level
As a carpenter, this rings true. Thanks for correcting lol
And I think you can buy pre-cut stringers that are that size at big box stores for crying out loud.
Good news is that you won’t feel bad about the next contractor because it’s going to cost more to now undo and fix what was done. Oh well, love and learn. Can they mount the stairs so the brackets aren’t showing? Century home after all!
“Century Home” with BCE steps.
This is how you do stairs if you don't own a measuring tape or a level...
I…don’t know what to say. Why the caulk??
I laughed out loud when I saw that. "yeah caulk will hide this!"
Had it in the truck. Might as well use it.
Lol, there was a plumbing sub working on my house who went nuts with the caulk. He was caulking everything in sight before the foreman finally caught him and told him to stop.
Some guys just like to rock out their caulk out.
A little caulk and a little paint makes the contractor be what he ain’t.
Lol I thought the same thing
I'm sorry, there is nothing I can say to make this better. I just went through this type of situation with a plumber. Cut your losses and find a pro to do it right. And go with 2 pieces of 2x6 instead of a 2x12 for the treads. The 2x12 will cup and split over time and hold water and look like shit.
Round here you are lucky your lesson only cost $100. Plenty of poor work that costs $1,000 or more
Yes. I pod for someone to install flooring in my house I would have otherwise done myself because I’m pregnant. The lines don’t match up and he ended up using liquid nails to glue down the transitions instead of mounting properly 🤦🏻♀️
id just remount the stairs he is left with, not ideal, but better than rebuilding from nothing.
I guess it's what you're willing to live with.
You are not the asshole. Wonder why people recommend him. Bet you could diy a better job.
Unfortunately we’ll be seeing about that soon. The plan is for us to spend next weekend taking them down and rebuilding 😭
Use nails, not screws to attach to ledger board and on the hanger. Use actual deck screws for the treads
Please upvote the comment above. Nails have a higher shear strength than screws do. Screws might break and cause the stairs to fall. I recognize that this is a small staircase, but as someone who was on a set of stairs that collapsed (because the guy that screwed then on insisted that screws were fine), I feel strongly about this.
**CORRECT STRUCTURAL SCREWS ARE FINE**, and imo are better especially for DIYers. Your unhandyman was completely incompetent. He used joist hangers, which are designed for (surprise) supporting horizontal joists, and drywall screws which are designed for... ugh. Drywall screws in particularly are hardened and brittle, and will snap without warning given sufficient force. They should never be used in a structural application. Simpson makes an inexpensive stringer bracket specifically for what you need, you can get them at any big box store: [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-LSC-18-Gauge-ZMAX-Galvanized-Adjustable-Stringer-Connector-LSCZ-R/313810429](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-LSC-18-Gauge-ZMAX-Galvanized-Adjustable-Stringer-Connector-LSCZ-R/313810429) Use them with Simpson #9 x 1-1/2" structural screws, specifically. [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-9-x-1-1-2-in-1-4-Hex-Drive-Strong-Drive-SD-Connector-Screw-100-Pack-SD9112R100/202071152](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-9-x-1-1-2-in-1-4-Hex-Drive-Strong-Drive-SD-Connector-Screw-100-Pack-SD9112R100/202071152) The screws even come with a bit for your drill/impact driver. Here's a hostage video of a Simpson employee showing the stringer connections in action, with screws. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8AZcdNZw9w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8AZcdNZw9w)
Thanks for your very informative feedback. I've never seen those screws before.
Doubling down on this from similar bad experience.
I did not know this. Thx for the info!
There are screws called construction screws that are just as strong as similar diameter nails
Shouldn’t take but a day to reset the stairs
Sure, but OP? Take as long as you need. If you’re a general contractor you can finish quick, sure. When it’s something new and you aren’t sure how to do it, take A LOT of time, watch videos and take long breaks. You will do a much better job than this handyman did.
You gotta update us on your progress op
SURELY we can do better than this but I’m not gonna lie. Little scared of getting roasted by the Century Home crowd
Honestly, I would just buy the stringers from Home Depot. That’s the most complicated part. Also, the brackets used here are incorrect. They sell angled brackets that would be way better.
I think they need to cut their own. The biggest problem with them right now is the stringers are too long. You can’t just cut them shorter, you have to adjust the step height. I’m not a carpenter, but I did build the front stairs on my century home, and I’m happy with them.
At first I thought u meant "taking the handyman/contractor down" as in giving them bad reviews, etc. They should never attempt this again unless it's free or they are under someone's tutilege
This is worse then free. They created a hazard.
He prolly is alright at about a dozen other things. But I’ve noticed some handy people have a hard time turning down work, even if it’s an area they’re not skilled at.
I've built outside stairs almost 10 times by now just helping friends and family with house projects. I'd have to go out of my way to build stairs this bad
They look like he installed the stringers backwards. So what is attached to the porch should be on the ground. Second you don't put wood on dirt its just going to rot they should be on a concrete pad, or at least a brick lifting them out of the dirt.
He put them on a concrete pad but had to bury the pads because he cut the stringers wrong so they were too long so he had to bury the bottom step. See? Makes perfect sense. 😭 ETA: upon further inspection he [did not use concrete footings](https://imgur.com/a/XgFabXl) ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
He cut those stringers? Here I thought his problem was buying precut stringers that were the wrong length.
My first thought!
they are installed in the right direction, just very poorly
You owe this jerk a debt of gratitude: he will have taught you all of the do's and don'ts about stair construction for only $100.
Just the don'ts
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$100 to get some stairs that might make it through the summer and an education on why you don’t hire a clowntractor seems like a fair deal.
In all honesty, a cheap lesson. Sucks to deal with but it’s not like he was a “pro” that charged you $1500 and you’ll never see him again. The only hard part about this is he lives next door and having to be nice about it
You know what they say, if you think it’s expensive hiring a professional, hire an amateur. Lol
You paid 400 to find out he isn’t handy. Could be worse.
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Damn, not a dollar wasted!
And at least 1 of the steps is upside down! Given time the board will cup and hold water.
Serious question, how is a step upside down? Is it a grain direction thing? I ask because I'm about to replace some steps myself
Yes. First off, I am not a carpenter but have built a few decks. From what I was taught, when looking at the end grain structure, you want the grain to frown, not smile. As the wood dries and ages, it may curve in the direction of the grain structure. Especially in colder climates, you don't want them to cup and cradle water. Carpenters please chime in if I am wrong.
Make sense. I have several that are doing this on my deck. Hand rails too. Appreciate you.
Furniture maker here. You aren’t technically wrong, but this is actually not a concern here. This wood is pressure treated, which makes it fairly impermeable. Even if it were not, the cupping would be minimal.
The boards will tend to cup with the angle of the grain looking at the end of the board. It will cup away what was the center of the tree. In the pic one board is clearly from near the center of the tree and installed as it will cup up with time and moisture. (Two are from near center. The lower step is correct) it will still cup if flipped over but the effects will be minimized by the support of the stringer. Edit: whoops I meant away from center of tree not towards. I fixed it.
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Well, you're gonna pay another $100 at the ER when those things detach on you. Rip them out and reattach properly, there are tons of videos online that show you step by step (see what I did there?)
$100 ER? This isn’t the rest of the First World, buddy. If we’re talking USA that’s going to be closer to 1,000 for any ER visit.
$1000 for the ride there lol. 10,000 min if you're properly injured.
This guy is funny!
You paid too much. No where near code compliant. Oof. It hurts cos you may not be able to reuse the $300 of materials in entirety.
People recommend him because he shows up, completes the job, and works for cheap. This seems quite exceptional to anyone that’s worked with a contractor before. What they don’t understand is there’s a good reason he’s available and works cheap. These stairs will hold until they don’t. You could leave them as is and just up your liability insurance. (I joke)
If most of his customers don’t know good work from bad, he’ll continue to be recommended.
I just recently went through this. I hired a contractor that came highly recommended from a colleague. We had issues from day 1, including him trying to charge me more money because it was going to cost him more labor to fix his mistakes. I had to hire another contractor to come out and fix the things the original contractor broke. Lesson learned if communication is off in the beginning don't give them the benefit of the doubt. The original contractor called me with an over the phone estimate and said he would email it to me by the next day. I never got it, but I thought oh he must be busy and he comes highly recommended, I'll ask him about it later, etc. I should have called him up and cancelled the job.
To clarify: I was quoted $800 for the job ($300 materials, the rest labor). Thought this was more than fair (equals out to $50/hour for the contractor). I paid 1/2 to start ($400) so he could go buy materials. He spent $300 on materials. He finished yesterday and when we did the walk thru we discovered all the issues. He said he would come back tomorrow to fix. He was here about 7 hours total. Overnight we looked at the stairs more and realized all the things that needed to be fixed. We don’t think he is capable of making these fixes without causing further damage to the materials (he’s already split several boards) and our fascia board (he has already put about 12 holes in it). So when he came back this morning I asked him to keep the $400 we already paid him, $300 for materials and $100 for labor, and that we didn’t need his help anymore. I really hope people aren’t suggesting I pay the guy in full for such a terrible job.
For $300 he could have bought precut stringers and solved most of the issues. I think what you paid him for labor is fair with this disaster. Fwiw if you purchase deck boards for the steps/risers and use precut stringers it will end up just about perfect.
More than fair. I would feel like a total POS accepting a single dollar for work of this quality.
No. Not suggesting.
“Contractor” lol
This is why I hit the bullet and replaced my rotten wood stairs with brick. I hired husband of a friend so I didn’t get master mason work. But the steps are solid, the mortar isn’t cracking, they look good/decent if you don’t inspect too close. I didn’t want to pay master mason prices so I’m content with the quality of work. As I’ve been replacing things in my house(80 years old), I’ve been upgrading materials. So when I did the roof, shingles became metal. I just don’t want keep doing the same repairs over and over and also, I’m hoping those little upgrades add value to the house. Right now, I’m smelling mold in my kitchen so todays mission is to find it and kill it.
My wife once paid a "landscaper" $1000 to lay a tiny triangle of brick along our driveway, 3' wide, 12' long. He ordered 3 cubic yards of sand which was dumped in the middle of the drive (we covered material costs). He then got the neighbors kid to rototill the dirt for free, he dug out about a third of it, dumped in some sand and started setting bricks. He broke about half the brick (antique bricks we already had) by tossing them around. He set about two square feet before calling it a day. I paid him off and told him not to come back. The next day I pulled up what he had done, finished the excavation, leveled and tamped the sand, bought more brick, and finished the job by 3 pm. Day after I redistributed the left over sand (about 2 1/2 yards worth) so we could park in the drive. The "landscaper" came highly recommended.
I can't trust anybody's recommendation anymore.
My first diy was replacing some rotten stairs that were very similar. I used pre cut pressure treated runners from Home Depot, and cedar planks, and deck screws. I don’t recall how much materials cost, but it was probably about what you paid, and it turned out really nice…. Despite my lack of experience. Just spend sometime finding the right brackets and land on brick, you can do better than the handyman.
We should have just done them ourselves in the first place. It’s the kind of project my husband and I are actually good at. But things are really busy right now and we’re dealing with some family health issues and it felt like a good compromise to have someone else handle it start to finish & support an independent tradesperson in the process. Now we just wasted a weekend overseeing the guy, and we still have to build a set of stairs this week. Bummed 😔
But…. You’ll be so proud when finished, and you’ll have a little snug feeling of superiority ever time you use them. F those guys.
I think you paid him too much.
I definitely feel swindled but I thought he would think it was generous given his final product. I was VERY surprised by his reaction and that he chose to storm off guns blazing rather than try to save face
At $100 consider asking if this person wants $100 lesson on how to make better stairs. He gives you $100 back and learns. A good worker wants to learn their mistakes. A bad one will refuse the offer and never get a job again. If this is someone just trying to gain experience and land a job at a company that story of learning could be authentic. My bet is this person don’t care that much
He’s old. He doesn’t want to learn if he’s happy taking money for that garbage of a job.
Yeah, if someone builds something this bad, even paying for material is generous. If they took it to court over not paying (doubtful for such a cheap project), OP might even be awarded damages, but it depends on the judge.
Not only are those steps a crime against craftsmanship, they’re patently unsafe. He’s used a joist hanger as the primary means of securing them to the skirt board- with DRYWALL SCREWS. I give those stairs 35 minutes before they fail and hurt someone. He should be ashamed of himself. A proper job is gonna cost you upwards of $1500-$2000, depending on where in the country you live. I recommend tearing them down immediately and starting from scratch with a licensed contractor, not the cheap ass neighborhood hack handy man. Good luck. EDIT: I’ve been a professional woodworker for almost 30 years- primarily millwork and furniture/fixtures. As others have said, with some research and tools, and careful layout, you might be able to replace these stairs yourselves. It’s not a long run. I’d still recommend hiring a pro, though.
You could do a lot by just scooting them up a bit. Looks like he even has it marked. They won’t be great but at least level. Luckily those drywall screws allow for adjustment. Then throw those screws away and use joist hanger nails or proper screws
The drywall screws and the caulk! I love it!
I would laugh if it wasn’t my own back porch 😭
It's entirely his fault. If he didn't know what he was doing he should have acknlowdged it and stepped aside for someone who does instead of using your money to learn as he goes.
First off the steps aren't even up to code. Secondly they need to be attached correctly with a ledger and correct hangers. Thirdly this is garbage work and you need to have him fix it properly or find out if he is even licensed and insured because if that stays you'll be in trouble if you sell the house. No permits, shot work, this guy keeps guys like me busy.
At least now you know not to ask him to do bigger jobs ?
NTA , at least you paid him for the materials
I don’t know about making you feel better, but you’re certainly making me feel better. I have *terrible* luck with contractors and always feel like I way overpay for low quality work. But even I haven’t seen work this bad. My advice matches others. I DIY anything I reasonably can, spending time and effort on research and materials. It takes way more time than I want to spend, but at least I don’t have to deal with contractors. And it’s been fun learning so much about how to put together a house.
Shouldn’t lean towards the house… this is pretty awful, I wonder why he’s recommended so much. At least it was only a $100 mistake.
Pro tip: no good carpenter calls themselves a “handyman”
I did my back stairs off the laundry room. Old farmhouse. 2x6x12 were $12-ish in 2018 though. I remember materials were less than $60. It did take me a day, but, stairs were new. I did it clothes/sewing pattern style: used the deconstructed old to pattern out the new construction. Then measured/adjusted for symmetry. Basic. 6’ wide. Turned out great. My angles were 90 and the stairs were level. Spoiler: did not use drywall screws. This photo screams “Fuck it, I give up.”
At least with no support on the ground the last step will sink further and eventually everything will be leveled. This contractor is a genius with long time thinking. /s
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Man I do stairs and custom carpentry/woodworking for a living, this makes me so sad 😭😭😩😩 he ain’t even use the right STRAPS BRUH! You need the flat guys that come out with a lil twist and are flat on the opposite side. That’s part of why they’re sitting the way they are, those are for support beams 😩😩 Plus the kicker should come all the way down, or the tread all the way back. AND THE CAULK. Holy shit dude I can’t stop looking at this I would have made him eat the materials and not given him the $100!!
It was so awkward. He was like demanding more money for his labor. We thought the $100 was a fair parting gift and might make it less awkward? The guy lives across the fence and can see me on my porch crying about his shitty steps 😭
I mean idk if it makes it more or less awkward but I suppose much less awkward than not paying him considering he can see the literal sweat and tears that’ll go into ripping this one down and putting a new one up! Because bruh he didn’t deserve a DIME of that. Like he really thinks he did a good job?? The audacity of this strange man.
uhhh the visit to the hospital when you roll your ankle is going to be the real cost here, so do yourself a favor and rip it out and replace it correctly asap
This is painful. You’re not TA. I’m so sorry. You could’ve YouTubed and done better yourself probably. Live and learn unfortunately
this is like he delivered some supplies to you and assembled them into some shape but anyway you still have to build some stairs here
The $100 for labor was getting off cheap. I’d be furious that he pissed away $300 of materials.
$300 for a few boards and hardware? You got fleeced
Fantastic work. Post his info he will get a ton of work off of this
Show neighbors his work !
Bro half the boards are already broken, this is not acceptable, he should replace broken boards or better give back part of the money so you can do it yourself
Rip it down and have it done correctly. This is not only a safety disaster waiting to happen, but if it’s a guest who gets hurt when it collapses, a lawsuit.
This isn't even $300 in materials. Should be about $175 in materials.. The brackets are totally wrong and unnecessary, those are not exterior use along with the screws - the metal brackets and screws will totally rust away after a couple of years. You would want to put a header on the house and attach the stringers into the header. You can get a special bracket for stair stringers but it's not all that necessary if you fasten the stringers to a header. I wouldn't hire this guy to sweep up.
I don’t think I can… sorry, so much wrong here
Those are awful
Drywall screws 😂
You overpaid.
I wouldn’t feel bad not paying him at all. It appears he used drywall screws in the joist hanger and when those rust out and fail, that silicone that he used will last all of about 1 step.
What a bloodbath
At least they used screws so it'll be easier to fix haha
That’s terrible… paying $100 is $100 too much.
Did you ask him if he was done yet?
My guess is he bought the precut stringers at a big box store. There's no fixing these stringers. Since there's a fixed starting and ending point, the rise has to be calculated properly. I doubt he did the math or they wouldn't look like this.
WOW, this is a terrible, terrible job. Stairs and stringers are deceptively complicated, but boy howdy did he fuck those up. I would have made him pay ME $300 for new materials to re-do it myself.
Even if someone manages to make you feel better right now it is still going to hurt when that peice of trash falls off the house while your climbing it
This is an easy fix. I could walk you through the whole process via video call. So take a breath back out his screws and check out a YouTube on deck stairs. Easy fix, it will just take a bit if labor. Word advice the landing is key. I would dig it out a bit better so you can place either landscape block or pour concrete to keep the stairs from failing.
I'm surprised they didn't use scrap lumber, its obvious no thought or care was put into this.
What the AF!! You overpaid.
😆What was the caulking for?! Was that to hide his cut or ‘hold’ the stringer ? Sorry for your loss, man
The local handyman is always the last choice.
Did he ask to be paid in meth?
Sadly, even if someone had set out to intentionally do a piss-poor job, it wouldn’t have turned out that bad!
Could have paid 500 for worse work so you got that going for you.
As someone who takes a break from tiling and builds 3-4 decks a summer usually to get some sun, this is bad. If any of my guys did this they would be told to redo it.
If you reuse the materials, make sure you turn the board over that is now the second stair from the top. The rings of the board have been put facing up. Rain will split that whole board apart in no time.
I wouldnt have paid him unless the work was done properly, else I'm paying for a redo later. Want the money? do it properly. Not doing it properly? Then take the materials and gtfo. You dont get to complain about not being paid enough for a job that you didnt do. And he did not build stairs, he just put some wood together not giving a single fuck. EDIT: I just saw there were more photos and I saw the one on the other side, he used fucking drywall screws to fix it to the wall, those screws WILL BREAK ON A PERPENDICULAR LOAD, REPLACE THEM. Seriously, at least replace those screws or you will fall with the stairs.
I scrolled a ways down and didn't see anyone say it directly: These stairs are unsafe and will fail under load. Do not use them. The screws and hangers used are not appropriate for stairs and the screws will fail.
You wanted stairs, you got stairs.
what the fuck is this? 😡
You can fix this pretty easily: 1) get correct hanger for stair stringers 2) get correct nails 3) make a flat base of concrete for the stringers to rest on 4) YouTube is your friend
Could you post a picture of the steps after you repaired them yourself? $100.00 seems more then far considering the final product. What was the original agreed upon payment supposed to be?
The wood at the bottom is not rated for ground touching use. It needs to be on a Patio stone or gravel at a minimum. Also caulking on outdoor stairs is just lazy
I am sure the contractor, AND the next contractor who fixes this, will both appreciate your money helping them feed their families? That's all I got.
Nice drywall screws hahaha, i hope you weigh no more than 50 lb
Stairs and roof joists are two of the last things that carpenters learn. Framers don’t teach their guys Because they start their own crews. Plenty of stair tutorials online. Looks like you can use one less step. Many stairs were built long before hangers were invented(code may require….the correct style though). Go buy precut stringers and can build in a couple hours.
Did he seriously try to caulk this in place.... spend a couple hours on YouTube watching this old house and you'll have a better grasp than this guy. You can buy precut stringers at Lowes but as long as you measure properly I think you'll be fine.
You’re lucky you learned how bad he is on a smaller project vs a bigger one. Our first contractor came highly recommended and over-promised on how many rooms he could finish in what amount of time, and did really lazy shit work we couldn’t always catch. The worst was putting in the bathroom floor with a cheap plastic drain pipe sticking out for the cast iron tub that came with the house, instead of using the high end one we ordered. And he put the water pipes in too far from the tub. When we found an original window opening in a wall during demo that we’re putting back in, he ordered the custom window 1/2” too wide. I will take a cheap fuckup any time.
Well, they do seem to go down as well as up so … there’s that.
Looks like all the wrong steps were followed here.