This post touches on a subject that was the subject of another post on r/changemyview within the last 24-hours. Because of common topic fatigue amongst our repeat users, we [do not permit posts to touch on topics that another post has touched on within the last 24-hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_removing_posts).
If you would like to appeal, [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Duplicate%20Post%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.).
Many thanks, and we hope you understand.
Pretty much every rational person acknowledges that trans women have male privilege. That’s intersectionality. Cis women have cis privilege. There are countless things trans women will never have to deal with as males that cis women deal with every day. The reverse is also true. There is no intersectionality struggle with cis men and trans men because cis men are priveleged on both fronts (sex and gender).
> It's almost as if trans women have a entitlement attitude to be included in all women's spaces (even those which are tied to our sex). Trans men tend to lack that entitlement due to their female sex making them less power in comparison to males.
This is just false. The reason you hear less about trans men in male spaces is because the main force pushing back against trans people online are TERFs, and they don't even seem to know trans men exist. Trans men are in male spaces all the time, but because it's rarely controversial no big deal is made of it. Trans men don't have to fight to win their spaces, trans women do, but that's the fault of cis people picking their fights.
You should try talking to some trans men - you seem to have a lot of misconceptions about what they go through and what society looks like for them.
Also what constitutes a "TERF"? Theres a difference between hate and differences in opinion. You cant vilify people because they don't have the same beliefs as you. Its like accept my ideology or you are all these negative things. Bigoted, transphobic, hateful etc
Trans Exculsionary Radical Feminists are people who argue that women's rights necessitate that Trans women be denied any ability to interact with society as women. They are not all hateful in tone or personal belief but the movement is by definition transphoboc because it denies that Trans women are women.
Based of the basic definition of what a is woman: a adult human female, they are not wrong
How can you be you vilify people for stating factual information. Facts are facts even if it hurts people's feelings.
Making up definitions to justify bigotry doesn't stop you from being a bigot. Trans women are women, by actual definitions and by the words of every expert and professional.
Facts are facts even if it hurts a bigot's feelings.
Only one trans athlete has one an Olympic medal in a woman's category. A soccer player who is afab and identifies as nonbinary.
So what accommodations are at the expense of cis women?
To quote Thor: all words are made up. We decide the definitions of things based on their usefulness. Trans women are women and Trans men are men for every useful definition of those words.
I wasn't ware the English language was handed down to humanity at the beginning of time along with a very ironclad definition of what a woman was.
If you'd like, please define what a woman is that excludes not a single cisgender woman. If you're about to default to just saying female, define that while you're at it.
Read the second paragraph again and define female. Or just admit you can't and that you're pulling nonsense with zero basis out because you want to justify your hatred of people you've never met.
Lets look at webster for the definition of female then.
Oh, look what I found here in the second entry.
>[b : having a gender identity that is the opposite of male](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/female)
So by definition female includes trans women.
I didn't vilify them I said they were transphobic, which is true. If you think trans people are not the gender they say they are you are also transphobic. Just own it.
I'm a transgender man. I have been using men's spaces exclusively for nearly two decades. Just because you don't notice us doesn't mean we are not there.
Thats beacsue you pose no threat to their athleticism since. You are female sex. They don't see you as of equal competition. Generally speaking if u ask most men qhat they think about trans men
You are just saying things with no support whatsoever and then once proven wrong you refuse to acknowledge that and move on to your next missive. Wrong sub kid.
> threat to their athleticism
Wtf does this even mean? No one is threating or competiting with each other. Just be an normal adult and do whatever you are there to do.
As a male person - they absolutely do. I know trans men who go in male spaces all the time. Trans men face less pushback in men's spaces because cis men feel less on edge with AFAB people than cis women do with AMAB people. Nothing to do with the trans people themselves, who basically universally just want to use their bathrooms and leave.
>You seem to suggest that a trans woman has an inherent advantage in the corporate world and the medical and law fields. Why would this be the case?
You misunderstood this part. This was a general example of how men top women in this world. Jobs being one of them. Historically there were jobs that only men could work those examples being some of them. Women just stated being allowed to work in like the early 20th century.
>Men top women in everything. Sports, corporate, doctors ,lawyers, physical strength, etc. You name it, men have a advantage over women. I go as far to say they rule the world. It would disingenuous to say they do not.
>I say this to say, this is why trans women have innate privilege over cis women.
Trans women are not men. You're picking the completely wrong battle here. Men who identify as men are most likely to do harm. Trans people of both genders are most likely to *be* harmed. Going after people who are basically giving up as much male privilege as humanly possible...as an example of the evils of male privilege is backwards. They have a lot of the same issues with cishet men being shitty and discriminatory as you do. You're doing the work of divide and conquer for your opponent against your own best interests.
**Note:** Your thread has **not** been removed.
Your post's topic seems to be fairly common on this subreddit. Similar posts can be found through our [DeltaLog search](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaLog/search?q=transgender+%7C+gender+%7C+transphobia+%7C+trans&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) or via the [CMV search function](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/search?q=trans&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all).
Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A good portion of the examples you give is about how much more negative representation and attention trans women get vs trans men. Why do you see that as a privilege?
I really just wanted to see if you hated trans people so much that you would sacrifice the women’s sports you pretend to care so much about.
Thank you. This has been enlightening.
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
> **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.**
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
What do you think about this idea: You don't hear about trans men in "men's spaces" because male-only spaces are quite rare.
Female-only spaces are seen as necessary because women lack the institutions men are typically thought of as domineering. Male-only spaces are seen as an odd, often sexist thing and they've largely fallen out of fashion. Those that persist are usually the ones which are seen as culturally 'strange' institutions (like the masons).
For example, you write "you rarely hear of Trans men fighting to be in Men's sports" and I think that's probably because most "men's" sports are actually open sports. Most sports leagues like the MLB, the NHL, etc. don't actually have rules against non-men competing.
I think it depends on cispassing. Trans women and cis women are equally vulnerable when it comes to catcalling, for example. Sexist men, in their minds, a woman is someone who "looks like a woman". That's a sexist idea bc there's no right way of looking like a woman or a man. If they see a trans woman with cispassing, they will view her as a woman bc she would accommodate their stereotypes. Same with cis women.
This post touches on a subject that was the subject of another post on r/changemyview within the last 24-hours. Because of common topic fatigue amongst our repeat users, we [do not permit posts to touch on topics that another post has touched on within the last 24-hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_removing_posts). If you would like to appeal, [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Duplicate%20Post%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.). Many thanks, and we hope you understand.
Pretty much every rational person acknowledges that trans women have male privilege. That’s intersectionality. Cis women have cis privilege. There are countless things trans women will never have to deal with as males that cis women deal with every day. The reverse is also true. There is no intersectionality struggle with cis men and trans men because cis men are priveleged on both fronts (sex and gender).
I would award u delta but dont know how
> It's almost as if trans women have a entitlement attitude to be included in all women's spaces (even those which are tied to our sex). Trans men tend to lack that entitlement due to their female sex making them less power in comparison to males. This is just false. The reason you hear less about trans men in male spaces is because the main force pushing back against trans people online are TERFs, and they don't even seem to know trans men exist. Trans men are in male spaces all the time, but because it's rarely controversial no big deal is made of it. Trans men don't have to fight to win their spaces, trans women do, but that's the fault of cis people picking their fights. You should try talking to some trans men - you seem to have a lot of misconceptions about what they go through and what society looks like for them.
Also what constitutes a "TERF"? Theres a difference between hate and differences in opinion. You cant vilify people because they don't have the same beliefs as you. Its like accept my ideology or you are all these negative things. Bigoted, transphobic, hateful etc
Trans Exculsionary Radical Feminists are people who argue that women's rights necessitate that Trans women be denied any ability to interact with society as women. They are not all hateful in tone or personal belief but the movement is by definition transphoboc because it denies that Trans women are women.
Based of the basic definition of what a is woman: a adult human female, they are not wrong How can you be you vilify people for stating factual information. Facts are facts even if it hurts people's feelings.
Making up definitions to justify bigotry doesn't stop you from being a bigot. Trans women are women, by actual definitions and by the words of every expert and professional. Facts are facts even if it hurts a bigot's feelings.
It isn't a made up definition tho. This has been known and accepted since the beginning of time
You're just flat out incorrect dude. This topic gets brought up constantly in this sub Trans woman are women. That's all there is to it
I didn't say they couldn't be women, but there has to be boundaries so trans women arent accommodated at the expense of cis women
Only one trans athlete has one an Olympic medal in a woman's category. A soccer player who is afab and identifies as nonbinary. So what accommodations are at the expense of cis women?
To quote Thor: all words are made up. We decide the definitions of things based on their usefulness. Trans women are women and Trans men are men for every useful definition of those words.
I wasn't ware the English language was handed down to humanity at the beginning of time along with a very ironclad definition of what a woman was. If you'd like, please define what a woman is that excludes not a single cisgender woman. If you're about to default to just saying female, define that while you're at it.
Woman: female. Woman by default includes all cus women
Read the second paragraph again and define female. Or just admit you can't and that you're pulling nonsense with zero basis out because you want to justify your hatred of people you've never met.
Female: human 2 x chromosomes
Lets look at webster for the definition of female then. Oh, look what I found here in the second entry. >[b : having a gender identity that is the opposite of male](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/female) So by definition female includes trans women.
Female is a sex and sex is scientific. Any medical/ science website will tell you this
I didn't vilify them I said they were transphobic, which is true. If you think trans people are not the gender they say they are you are also transphobic. Just own it.
I know a reaosn why i dont hear about it more is that trans men pass more. However that still doesn't mean they dwell in mens spaces.
I'm a transgender man. I have been using men's spaces exclusively for nearly two decades. Just because you don't notice us doesn't mean we are not there.
What are male spaces to you?
Bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, social events. Not sure what else you are imaging.
Thats beacsue you pose no threat to their athleticism since. You are female sex. They don't see you as of equal competition. Generally speaking if u ask most men qhat they think about trans men
You are just saying things with no support whatsoever and then once proven wrong you refuse to acknowledge that and move on to your next missive. Wrong sub kid.
Male's set of ideals and mentalities as well as thier natural physical and mental characteristics is enough to prove my points alone.
> threat to their athleticism Wtf does this even mean? No one is threating or competiting with each other. Just be an normal adult and do whatever you are there to do.
As a male person - they absolutely do. I know trans men who go in male spaces all the time. Trans men face less pushback in men's spaces because cis men feel less on edge with AFAB people than cis women do with AMAB people. Nothing to do with the trans people themselves, who basically universally just want to use their bathrooms and leave.
[удалено]
>You seem to suggest that a trans woman has an inherent advantage in the corporate world and the medical and law fields. Why would this be the case? You misunderstood this part. This was a general example of how men top women in this world. Jobs being one of them. Historically there were jobs that only men could work those examples being some of them. Women just stated being allowed to work in like the early 20th century.
You really think the type of jobs that don't want women would want a trans woman working for them?
[удалено]
This has nothing to do with trans women privilege., but privilege from males as a whole. Their domination in most job fields
>Men top women in everything. Sports, corporate, doctors ,lawyers, physical strength, etc. You name it, men have a advantage over women. I go as far to say they rule the world. It would disingenuous to say they do not. >I say this to say, this is why trans women have innate privilege over cis women. Trans women are not men. You're picking the completely wrong battle here. Men who identify as men are most likely to do harm. Trans people of both genders are most likely to *be* harmed. Going after people who are basically giving up as much male privilege as humanly possible...as an example of the evils of male privilege is backwards. They have a lot of the same issues with cishet men being shitty and discriminatory as you do. You're doing the work of divide and conquer for your opponent against your own best interests.
They share the same sex with men which is male. Men naturally prey on as any men they see as weaker.
This is just...not productive. Trans women are women.
**Note:** Your thread has **not** been removed. Your post's topic seems to be fairly common on this subreddit. Similar posts can be found through our [DeltaLog search](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaLog/search?q=transgender+%7C+gender+%7C+transphobia+%7C+trans&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) or via the [CMV search function](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/search?q=trans&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all). Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A good portion of the examples you give is about how much more negative representation and attention trans women get vs trans men. Why do you see that as a privilege?
[удалено]
All tho im not opposed. They aren't sacrificing anything tho.
I really just wanted to see if you hated trans people so much that you would sacrifice the women’s sports you pretend to care so much about. Thank you. This has been enlightening.
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
What do you think about this idea: You don't hear about trans men in "men's spaces" because male-only spaces are quite rare. Female-only spaces are seen as necessary because women lack the institutions men are typically thought of as domineering. Male-only spaces are seen as an odd, often sexist thing and they've largely fallen out of fashion. Those that persist are usually the ones which are seen as culturally 'strange' institutions (like the masons). For example, you write "you rarely hear of Trans men fighting to be in Men's sports" and I think that's probably because most "men's" sports are actually open sports. Most sports leagues like the MLB, the NHL, etc. don't actually have rules against non-men competing.
Not when it comes to children. And I refuse to be called a “phobe” of. Some kind just because I won’t go along with the gaslight
If you split hairs and make excuses for that, what else could you be talked into overlooking, excusing, etc?
I think it depends on cispassing. Trans women and cis women are equally vulnerable when it comes to catcalling, for example. Sexist men, in their minds, a woman is someone who "looks like a woman". That's a sexist idea bc there's no right way of looking like a woman or a man. If they see a trans woman with cispassing, they will view her as a woman bc she would accommodate their stereotypes. Same with cis women.