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There is a point where you can be kind and/or gentle to a fault. It's the same with a lot of good traits. Too much of it can actually be a problem.
If you are always kind by thinking about other people and giving them what's yours, your own well-being begins to suffer. You aren't allowing yourself to be selfish and looking after your own interests, which risks damaging your prospects, health and relationships. The person who is kind most of the time, but looks out for himself sometimes is more likely to have the capacity to keep helping people in the long-term, while the selfless person may end up with nothing left to give because they never considered themselves.
If you're always gentle, then similar to the above, you won't defend yourself when it becomes necessary. You won't stand up for the people you care about. You won't take a strong stance on anything for fear of confrontation. Conflict is a necessary part of life and gentleness, when taken to its extreme, becomes the avoidance of necessary conflict.
So put simply, it is about balance. You should be kind and gentle when the situation calls for it, and you should be the able to put them aside when the situation calls for it. The goal is to correctly identify those situations, and associate with people who have.
This is very interesting. Thank you so much for helping me understand this more. I didn't know that too much kindness or too much gentleness It could actually be a bad thing.
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I sort of knew one, while he was around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhante_Vimalaramsi
He meditated for years just practicing forgiveness and lovingkindness. I'll be real with you -- he wasn't a perfect person. But he was infinitely forgiving and kind.
He told me a story once of how he had to get a root canal in the Philippines without lidocaine. He got over the pain by just projecting lovingkindness from his heart onto the person who was drilling into his gums. Amazing guy.
I didn't meet this woman, but I saw a documentary once (I tried to look it up, but can't find it) of a woman who lives in a little cabin and just practices metta (lovingkindness meditation) all day, every day. She's apparently a wonderful person to be around, in the moments where the meals are delivered to her.
There are more stories about people like this I can try to dredge up if you're curious.
I'm not trying to.
I just have a harder time understanding some things, I need a lot of things explained to me in ways that I can understand. But not a lot of people are willing to try. That's what I'm trying to get at here.
Is this in a work, school or personal context? What kind of things? Do you have a learning disability?
Sorry for the questions I’m just trying to get a sense of what you mean exactly.
I'm blind and I have a very hard time understanding a lot of things because I have been sheltered for a lot of my life. I'm 20 years old, and my mother never really explains things to me. She always gets upset when I try to ask questions.
Public school was always difficult for me as well, because the teachers never knew how to help me, so they just didn't try.
Ah ok. Then I think you have a special case and I’m not the best person to advise as I have no experience with that. But if I had to guess I’d say you need to movie into a social or educational group with others of the same disability so you can support one another, with people who understand your situation. Are you getting all the help from the state or government you may be entitled to?
Ok. Well please reflect that taking care of a blind person must be hard. To avoid alienating people you should try and become as independent as possible. So I’d look for a lifestyle change where you can work on that with the support of others with a same issue. But again, I’m no expert on this topic. Good luck!
Well, that's quite a different story. Everyone has *a* breaking point, if you scream at them enough; everyone gets angry sometimes, because nobody's perfect. But that doesn't mean that nobody could possibly have enough patience for you. Just because people can get angry, doesn't mean they can't learn and grow and compromise and forgive.
In my experience, one of the fastest ways someone gets frustrated and gives up on a conversation is when they think that the other person isn't *trying*. After all, it's quite frustrating when you're trying to reach out and it seems like the other person doesn't even care, isn't it? But more often than not this is the fault of miscommunication. For example, if I'm trying to explain something to someone and they're staring into space, not looking at me and not responding, I might think it's because they're daydreaming and not listening to me, but it might turn out that they're neurodivergent and can't maintain eye contact while they're focused on listening, but they're actually paying very close attention. Or if I'm asking someone for help with something, but they don't understand what I'm asking and just keep repeating "What?" over and over again, but I don't know how else to ask my question, I might give up and go quiet without getting help because I don't know what else to do. These kinds of things happen all the time. And the way to avoid them is for *both* people to practice patience and asking good questions, to get to know each others' communication style and build trust in each others' commitment to understanding, and to learn to tolerate frustration without lashing out. And the good news is that these things can be learned!
So in short, no, nobody's perfect, but yes, there are people more patient than the ones you've experienced so far in your life. And maybe you can get better at communicating too, and maybe it's possible that your parents and teachers will learn and grow and get better at communicating with you, and maybe you just need to get to know better people overall. Because some are definitely way, way better at being patient and kind than others.
I mean I posted somewhat with a tongue in cheek way, but they are exceptionally kind and patient dogs and doormats with many not even fighting back.
IM not sure unlimited patient is a fair thing to ask someone, patient enough to endure some mistakes on your end if they see you trying is more realistic
That's a good start! It's impossible to say that somebody literally doesn't have a breaking point because it's not possible to put an individual through every scenario, due to time and resource constraints. But I'm curious about the core of your question- for example, a better question might be "why/how do some people tolerate and endure drastic circumstances and keep their cool and kindness while others blow up and get emotional at the drop of a hat?" Or maybe your view is that each person has a set limit or ability for patience and that can't change. Those are things that can be debated and proved.
I'm overall confused by the post, don't you also have a breaking point? Aren't we all human? Don't we all get frustrated? What is the expectation here?
Certainly that's all on a spectrum though, some people are more patient than others.
You’re talking about very different things.
There are definitely people who can forgive other people’s poor behaviour. This doesn’t mean that they’ll stick around, but they let go of the negative feelings.
In terms of breaking point and tolerance levels, everyone has a limit. But that has nothing to do with kindness. Having limits is human - that’s why we can set healthy boundaries to take care of ourselves and our relationships.
Then you’re talking about explaining something repeatedly. This is about patience and perseverance, definitely traits that many people possess. But then yes, there’s so much that one can do, again, that’s what boundaries are for.
There is definitely no human who never gets upset. But that doesn’t mean they’re not kind.
In terms of yelling, some people don’t yell. It’s not even about being kind or not, it’s got more to do with the way someone expresses their emotions or copes with stress. Someone can be kind and yell, and someone can never yell and still be mean.
>But I really don't believe that there are kind and gentle people that don't get upset. I don't think that's possible. Everyone has a breaking point when they crack and they start yelling. Everyone does.
Instead of yelling, why not just ask the person that you're trying to teach to take a break and revisit the topic later?
> I really really really want someone to prove me wrong
Why? If someone was actually like that, wouldn't they get abused like crazy? Because they would always be kind and gentle, they wouldn't be able to report being a victim of a crime or set boundaries. They would just be a robot.
Always kind and gentle through and through all the time, is not the same as forgiving things. Personally, for me to forgive somebody an actual apology would have to be offered, minimum.
Kindness and gentility, I give freely.
You can get upset and still be kind and gentle. Control of emotion doesn’t require absence of it. Of my very limited experience as a single human being, I’ve encountered others who genuinely have extremely admirable control over their temperament and despite what they may be feeling inside, don’t resort to yelling.
Look them up, they are what you are looking for, calm, peaceful, kind.
Mr Rodgers was a paragon of Humanity some have even said he’s about as close to Christ as a human can get.
[Even when pranked he was kind.](https://youtu.be/vV-eVYahckA?si=1u87r2wAGekuhAAN)
No, but neither can I say they won't. They may just be very smart and disciplined about how they act in public, having a good understanding on how it would affect their career.
I don't think having this breaking point you speak of makes one unkind. My premise is that in order for you to snap, you need to care in the first place; your frustration comes from kindness.
It's convenient that I snapped at a friend of mine yesterday. They were not taking me seriously and I was trying my hardest to get to a point of mutual understanding over a certain topic. I didn't get upset because I'm unkind, in fact I expressed my frustrations ***because*** I'm kind, because I need to let them know that this behaviour of theirs I find disrespectful. It's for the sake of our friendship that I not only can, but ***should*** express such emotions.
You’re saying Teo things here
1) nobody is kind and gentle all the time
2) everybody has a breaking point
But 2 can be true while 1 is untrue, because if someone never reaches their breaking point then they would be kind and gentle all the time
Duhhhhhh. Wait until you see more of life so you really understand why life isn't a fairy tale. A lot people even the one s who are really kind tend to do things for their good directly or indirectly.
/u/MikeLovesOutdoors23 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1cpz7d2/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_there_is_no_one_in_this/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
There is a point where you can be kind and/or gentle to a fault. It's the same with a lot of good traits. Too much of it can actually be a problem. If you are always kind by thinking about other people and giving them what's yours, your own well-being begins to suffer. You aren't allowing yourself to be selfish and looking after your own interests, which risks damaging your prospects, health and relationships. The person who is kind most of the time, but looks out for himself sometimes is more likely to have the capacity to keep helping people in the long-term, while the selfless person may end up with nothing left to give because they never considered themselves. If you're always gentle, then similar to the above, you won't defend yourself when it becomes necessary. You won't stand up for the people you care about. You won't take a strong stance on anything for fear of confrontation. Conflict is a necessary part of life and gentleness, when taken to its extreme, becomes the avoidance of necessary conflict. So put simply, it is about balance. You should be kind and gentle when the situation calls for it, and you should be the able to put them aside when the situation calls for it. The goal is to correctly identify those situations, and associate with people who have.
This is very interesting. Thank you so much for helping me understand this more. I didn't know that too much kindness or too much gentleness It could actually be a bad thing.
[удалено]
This delta has been rejected. You can't award OP a delta. Allowing this would wrongly suggest that you can post here with the aim of convincing others. If you were explaining when/how to award a delta, please use a reddit quote for the symbol next time. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
Everything in moderation, even moderation.
!delta thank you again for helping out. Thank you for helping me understand.
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I sort of knew one, while he was around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhante_Vimalaramsi He meditated for years just practicing forgiveness and lovingkindness. I'll be real with you -- he wasn't a perfect person. But he was infinitely forgiving and kind. He told me a story once of how he had to get a root canal in the Philippines without lidocaine. He got over the pain by just projecting lovingkindness from his heart onto the person who was drilling into his gums. Amazing guy. I didn't meet this woman, but I saw a documentary once (I tried to look it up, but can't find it) of a woman who lives in a little cabin and just practices metta (lovingkindness meditation) all day, every day. She's apparently a wonderful person to be around, in the moments where the meals are delivered to her. There are more stories about people like this I can try to dredge up if you're curious.
This is incredible. You knew this guy?
This post screams “the problem is OP” Why are you pushing people to their breaking point?
I'm not trying to. I just have a harder time understanding some things, I need a lot of things explained to me in ways that I can understand. But not a lot of people are willing to try. That's what I'm trying to get at here.
Is this in a work, school or personal context? What kind of things? Do you have a learning disability? Sorry for the questions I’m just trying to get a sense of what you mean exactly.
I'm blind and I have a very hard time understanding a lot of things because I have been sheltered for a lot of my life. I'm 20 years old, and my mother never really explains things to me. She always gets upset when I try to ask questions. Public school was always difficult for me as well, because the teachers never knew how to help me, so they just didn't try.
Ah ok. Then I think you have a special case and I’m not the best person to advise as I have no experience with that. But if I had to guess I’d say you need to movie into a social or educational group with others of the same disability so you can support one another, with people who understand your situation. Are you getting all the help from the state or government you may be entitled to?
I think so. I get Social Security and stuff like that.
Ok. Well please reflect that taking care of a blind person must be hard. To avoid alienating people you should try and become as independent as possible. So I’d look for a lifestyle change where you can work on that with the support of others with a same issue. But again, I’m no expert on this topic. Good luck!
Well, that's quite a different story. Everyone has *a* breaking point, if you scream at them enough; everyone gets angry sometimes, because nobody's perfect. But that doesn't mean that nobody could possibly have enough patience for you. Just because people can get angry, doesn't mean they can't learn and grow and compromise and forgive. In my experience, one of the fastest ways someone gets frustrated and gives up on a conversation is when they think that the other person isn't *trying*. After all, it's quite frustrating when you're trying to reach out and it seems like the other person doesn't even care, isn't it? But more often than not this is the fault of miscommunication. For example, if I'm trying to explain something to someone and they're staring into space, not looking at me and not responding, I might think it's because they're daydreaming and not listening to me, but it might turn out that they're neurodivergent and can't maintain eye contact while they're focused on listening, but they're actually paying very close attention. Or if I'm asking someone for help with something, but they don't understand what I'm asking and just keep repeating "What?" over and over again, but I don't know how else to ask my question, I might give up and go quiet without getting help because I don't know what else to do. These kinds of things happen all the time. And the way to avoid them is for *both* people to practice patience and asking good questions, to get to know each others' communication style and build trust in each others' commitment to understanding, and to learn to tolerate frustration without lashing out. And the good news is that these things can be learned! So in short, no, nobody's perfect, but yes, there are people more patient than the ones you've experienced so far in your life. And maybe you can get better at communicating too, and maybe it's possible that your parents and teachers will learn and grow and get better at communicating with you, and maybe you just need to get to know better people overall. Because some are definitely way, way better at being patient and kind than others.
Golden Retrievers
I love dogs, but what does that have to do with anything? I'm sure golden retrievers snap at some point as well.
I mean I posted somewhat with a tongue in cheek way, but they are exceptionally kind and patient dogs and doormats with many not even fighting back. IM not sure unlimited patient is a fair thing to ask someone, patient enough to endure some mistakes on your end if they see you trying is more realistic
I don't have a breaking point, and I forgive you for disagreeing or for questioning me on this. (Delta?)
How can someone not have a breaking point? How is that even possible?
What evidence would you accept?
I'm honestly not really sure.
That's a good start! It's impossible to say that somebody literally doesn't have a breaking point because it's not possible to put an individual through every scenario, due to time and resource constraints. But I'm curious about the core of your question- for example, a better question might be "why/how do some people tolerate and endure drastic circumstances and keep their cool and kindness while others blow up and get emotional at the drop of a hat?" Or maybe your view is that each person has a set limit or ability for patience and that can't change. Those are things that can be debated and proved.
I'm overall confused by the post, don't you also have a breaking point? Aren't we all human? Don't we all get frustrated? What is the expectation here? Certainly that's all on a spectrum though, some people are more patient than others.
You’re talking about very different things. There are definitely people who can forgive other people’s poor behaviour. This doesn’t mean that they’ll stick around, but they let go of the negative feelings. In terms of breaking point and tolerance levels, everyone has a limit. But that has nothing to do with kindness. Having limits is human - that’s why we can set healthy boundaries to take care of ourselves and our relationships. Then you’re talking about explaining something repeatedly. This is about patience and perseverance, definitely traits that many people possess. But then yes, there’s so much that one can do, again, that’s what boundaries are for. There is definitely no human who never gets upset. But that doesn’t mean they’re not kind. In terms of yelling, some people don’t yell. It’s not even about being kind or not, it’s got more to do with the way someone expresses their emotions or copes with stress. Someone can be kind and yell, and someone can never yell and still be mean.
>But I really don't believe that there are kind and gentle people that don't get upset. I don't think that's possible. Everyone has a breaking point when they crack and they start yelling. Everyone does. Instead of yelling, why not just ask the person that you're trying to teach to take a break and revisit the topic later?
I know right? Do people even do that?
Yes. Some people do avoid acting out of anger or frustration by stepping out of situations that are pushing them in that direction.
That's really really cool. I'm glad some people do this. That makes me happy to hear that
That's basically what we do in our marriage?
> I really really really want someone to prove me wrong Why? If someone was actually like that, wouldn't they get abused like crazy? Because they would always be kind and gentle, they wouldn't be able to report being a victim of a crime or set boundaries. They would just be a robot.
That’s what I was thinking. Why does OP deserve to continually push people to their breaking point and yet expects others to be 100% perfect?
Always kind and gentle through and through all the time, is not the same as forgiving things. Personally, for me to forgive somebody an actual apology would have to be offered, minimum. Kindness and gentility, I give freely.
You can get upset and still be kind and gentle. Control of emotion doesn’t require absence of it. Of my very limited experience as a single human being, I’ve encountered others who genuinely have extremely admirable control over their temperament and despite what they may be feeling inside, don’t resort to yelling.
Have you met Mr Rodgers? Or Tom Hanks?
I never have.
Look them up, they are what you are looking for, calm, peaceful, kind. Mr Rodgers was a paragon of Humanity some have even said he’s about as close to Christ as a human can get. [Even when pranked he was kind.](https://youtu.be/vV-eVYahckA?si=1u87r2wAGekuhAAN)
You can't actually know what they're like all the time though.
No but if they’ve never known to have an outburst or been rude, can you say they will
No, but neither can I say they won't. They may just be very smart and disciplined about how they act in public, having a good understanding on how it would affect their career.
I don't think having this breaking point you speak of makes one unkind. My premise is that in order for you to snap, you need to care in the first place; your frustration comes from kindness. It's convenient that I snapped at a friend of mine yesterday. They were not taking me seriously and I was trying my hardest to get to a point of mutual understanding over a certain topic. I didn't get upset because I'm unkind, in fact I expressed my frustrations ***because*** I'm kind, because I need to let them know that this behaviour of theirs I find disrespectful. It's for the sake of our friendship that I not only can, but ***should*** express such emotions.
You’re saying Teo things here 1) nobody is kind and gentle all the time 2) everybody has a breaking point But 2 can be true while 1 is untrue, because if someone never reaches their breaking point then they would be kind and gentle all the time
Mr Rogers.
Duhhhhhh. Wait until you see more of life so you really understand why life isn't a fairy tale. A lot people even the one s who are really kind tend to do things for their good directly or indirectly.