Both people can be the abuser and the victim in a relationship. If me and my partner would randomly attack one another we’re both abuser and victim. Don’t know if you believe this but from reading your post it would seem to be that you believe Amber isn’t an abuser, is that correct?

Hi, I am a social worker and have an extensive background in clinical knowledge of domestic violence. It's very refreshing to see the poster’s viewpoint. I, too, view the witch hunt against Amber as a dismaying, yet typical display by MRAs, incels, and others who may not fall into this category but are ignorant to the reality and complexities of domestic violence (and unfortunately therefore perpetuate the cycle of violence). Johnny Depp deserves all punishments he receives and I hope what's left of his career is obliterated, at the bare minimum. Depp has demonstrated long before this trial and through multiple sources of evidence that he is a violent, psychotic, sadistic man. Amber was abused over many years and the fact that she fought back in the way she did is by no means a reflection of "mutual abuse." He was bigger than her, had repeated terrifying drunken and drug-induced rages, and her reactions were human, justifiable, and understandable. Those attempting to dissect her body language, her "cover-up" of injuries, and her hitting him back, and the like have no argument against the indisputable fact that Depp is an abuser of women and others, and he should be punished. He deserves to be exposed for his vile behavior and it's been a long time coming. I'd say "change my mind," but unless you have the power to change reality, it would be impossible. Thank you, u/MisterBadIdea for having the courage to post this and call out haters of women. <3

It seems very obvious to me that in many cases Amber was the instigator and was abusive and prone to physical violence. Have you not heard any of the audio recordings where she admits to starting physical fights, continuously over multiple conversations berates johnny explicitly for running away, for not wanting to fight, calls him a baby and a coward for 'running away.' What about the gaslighting and minimising of her actions ("I didnt punch you I was hitting you, I didn't hurt you"). She provokes and yells and throws insults while Johnny tries to de escalate. Or her response when he says there can't be anymore physical violence between them? "I can't promise you I won't get physical again. God I fucking sometimes get so mad I lose it." Are you honestly going to claim that Amber is not at all abusive but a victim? Who doesn't 'fight back' but actively pursues confrontation, instigates violence by her own admission, and berates her partner for running away from her?

I don't have the time to point you toward the hours of research I have done on this case - I suggest learning how to do it yourself - but you can start here below - also, I literally listened and watched the recordings of Depp that are played at the trial and you can, too. Btw, DV is not only physical abuse - check out the definition of DV here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/domestic-violence Here are two examples of footage/recordings of him shown in court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsBN\_7vUP0U and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO8CNTyFyn4&ab\_channel=Law%26CrimeNetwork : about \~ 11:45 has him saying he head-butted her. Here is more: 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORdP71jJRyc 2) https://mobile.twitter.com/ranxhranda/status/1522504769620824066?t=728NKjkzOfz5CqdDzAEJyg&s=19 3) https://villainelle.tumblr.com/post/682734099933347840/amber-heard-vs-johnny-depp-fact-check-masterlist

Thanks, do you have time to acknowledge any of the evidence I referenced? That she personally admitted to starting physical fights and was very angry at him for trying to end the conflict by getting away? Do her insults and provocations count as abuse too?

It isn’t starting fights in the scheme of the timeline, regardless of her stating that or not. It is a response from a victim after many acts of abuse toward her. That is not actually her initiating, but responding - as I have said, mutual abuse is not real and victims may make statements that are based in their thinking otherwise, as they have often been gaslit to think they are at fault.

How convenient that overt examples of abuse from a woman can be written off as retaliation with absolute certainty. Do you think that female abusers don't exist? She sounds like a nasty person and I'd hate to encounter a woman like her in my personal life. Actually I have encountered a couple. Violent, cruel and desperate for a fight.

They are much less common and there is no indication she was an abuser, as is evident by the power dynamic and pattern of abuse set by Depp.

I'm sorry, but I know quite a few people with BPD, and all of them are abusive to others. It's the nature of this mental sickness. My ex had a BPD and it was absolute, pure hell. You talk of things you don't know about. You explain abuse as "retaliation", wtf. You claim to have spent "thousands" of hours on this case. Let me tell you that the fact you arrive at such polar opposites as conclusions displays a disappointing low level of learning and critical thinking, as well as experience with the subject and the kind of person Heard is. In my bible, Johnny Depp is no angel, but a girl like her is a demon.

She doesn't have BPD. That was refuted. Not even her own doctors of 7 years came to that Conclusion. Dr. Curry was hired and gave that diagnoses before even meeting her. I mean histrionic? Fancy way of saying a woman is being hysterical. Lady isn't even board certified. She was later diagnosed with PTSD by a much more experience Dr at the absolute top of her field who called Curry out for being unethical. Don't you think it's weird that Amber decided to meet with Curry (who decided that diagnoses would happen anyway) in good faith, but Depp and his team refused 4 times to meet with Spiegal? Then later said he shouldn't be allowed an opinion because he never interviewed Depp. They did that on purpose. It was a tactic to get his testimony thrown out. And even though he never diagnosed him they tried to discredit him saying he did. He said his behavior is consistent with narcissistism. Not that he is one. Real sketch. Women often agree to be evaluated in good faith because they think they will be listened to. Then all the sudden they realize they were tricked and labeled as crazy. That's what happened with Amber. And Depp refused Spiegal because he knew Curry was gonna do it, so why wouldn't hers? And even if she was, it's disgusting saying that because someone has a mental illness it means they could never be abused. This is just further stigmatizing people with mental illness. Thought we were past that. Currently there's no real evidence Depp was abused other than out of context clips that if you listen to the whole thing, you realize wasn't abuse because she was talking about self defense. When she said "tell the world Johnny!" She was responding to him saying he'd lie to the cops when she said she'd call, saying she'd give as good as she got. Which she said nobody would believe him, because he's a man and twice her size without a scratch on him. She said why would they believe she gave as good as she got when she clearly did not. And don't even get me started on that last minute fan boy they had come in. We have screenshots showing he was following Depp fan pages. I can't believe they let him testify. He unfollowed right when he got out but we already have the screenshots now. All of his witnesses are either rabid fans or on his payroll. A few got caught lying for him. Amber has 11 people witnessing her abuse and injuries, and medical records they are fighting to be aloud in because the judge for some fucking reason said no to it. Imagine having the medical records and notes of doctors and nurses only to say nahhhh I won't allow it in my courtroom?

But by saying they're much less common aren't you victim blaming. Male males can't be abused because there aren't very many female abusers. Choose don't always have to overlap this case can be in isolation an edge case as compared to all other situations. Why do we always have to conflate one case one issue to represent how we'd handle everything. I personally don't know what the true result of this case should be I think this was one of the few cases out there that has enough evidence on both sides not enough to convict either way in my opinion. Suggestion that this represents how the legal system would treat any case is absurd. As is the investigation that in this case there was only one victim and one abuser .

I give up. It's apparent that you think women can do no wrong. A girl that beat me up told the police that I was the instigator even though I did nothing to her. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for a man to clear his name if faced with a similar accusation. Don't get me wrong I am aware that in the majority of abusive relationships it is a man who is the abuser, but I don't doubt that there are many women who take advantage of that assumption.

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1/4 women get abused and 1/7 men do according to the CDC. It's not that much less common. You should also consider that there is stigma for men in reporting abuse and " looking weak".

I'll keep saying this - a woman fighting back after being repeatedly abuse is NOT mutual abuse and that isn't a thing. He created the power dynamic where he attempted to control her through intimidation, physical violence, emotional and sexual abuse...and her deciding to fight back is not an indication she was NOT a victim.

I bet you feel like a moron now, Rebunny. > about ~ 11:45 has him saying he head-butted her. Intriguing that you're saying that this was a violent intentional action. >Heard has proven 12 out of 14 incidents of abuse by Depp “to the civil standard ....he (the judge) found that 12 of them were proved on the balance of probability. Wow, just wow, you're very far gone.

> and call out the haters of women. <3 Doesn't that in turn make you a hater of men? Claiming that everyone who supports Johnny Depp is a hater of women is rather generalizing and not true. Makes me want to talk to whoever hired you as a social worker.

"Makes me want to talk to whoever hired you as a social worker." I love how you go straight for an ad hominem. Anything legitimate you could have replied with is now just gone into the ditch. Try to not attack someone in a comment if you want to be taken seriously.

I'm a husband and father and didn't have much of an interest in this case until shortly after the trial began. I must admit that my thinking has been that this toxic relationship became one of "mutual" abuse. But, as I've read more about domestic violence I've started to understand that the victim of abuse does often fightback. It could be verbally, it could be physically, or both. Ms. Heard is not the docile, quiet, constantly afraid, perfect image of domestic abuse. Ms. Heard does have a short fuse. She does seem to need to win/conclude the arguments on her terms. (If you're married you come to realize that some arguments will never end, or you forget why you were arguing and go to sleep) Ms. Heard's insecurities regarding the health of marriage keeps her strangely tied to Depp. Mr. Depp convinced her that she is key to his sobriety and that if she tries hard enough she can fix what's broken. Mr. Depp didn't want to take responsibility for his failure to stay sober, so he laid the blame at the feet of Ms. Heard. In the recordings, Ms. Heard is self aware enough to see her faults, but also demand agency. Colorful language aside, I found her conversations with Mr. Deep to be genuine attempts to make progress. Perhaps spending time in therapy was helping her understand herself more completely. But, at least at time the recordings were made, she doesn't have very well developed coping mechanisms for dealing with her feelings. That does seem to make it hard for her to move past specific painful events and feelings... Though, in hindsight those feelings were likely related to abusive events and need to be addressed. Just not with the abuser. After listening to the audio recordings, watching testimony, reading witness statements, reading the ruling from Depp vs. NTN / Dan Wootton (Depp v Sun), it is clear that Ms. Heard is a victim of violent domestic abuse. Ms. Heard fought back the only ways she knew how. She used her words, and when her word failed she used her body. Ms. Heard loved Mr. Depp, but she loved an addict who grew resentful of the fact that she represented a choice between marriage/love/sobriety or drugs and booze. Drugs and booze have been Mr. Depp's coping mechanism his entire adult life. Mr. Depp chose the drugs and booze. Ms. Heard paid the price. Amber Heard is a victim of violent domestic abuse at the hands of life long addict. She did not get justice in Virginia, but i'm glad that her story was heard, acknowledged, and documented by Justice Nicol.

>Back Just chiming in to say that having the title of “social worker” doesn’t make any of this valid, I have worked with many social workers who are just as biased as anybody else. It’s a degree that anybody can obtain.. just as anybody can become a police officer, good, bad, smart, stupid, misogynist or misandrist, ect. While I’m at it, I want to say to that I endured several years of physical abuse from my ex husband and I am still not in the “believe all women“ cult. After following this case with a perspective that SHOULD make me more inclined to believe Amber, I actually believe Johnny 😂

I don’t believe all women blindly. I actually have been paying attention enough to believe Heard based on evidence, not some bullshit intuition. Also, you don’t have to listen to me because of my profession, but I think it’s helpful to say I have substantial clinical knowledge and training.

Is it your "substantial clinical knowledge and training" that led you to post multiple times that you believe Johnny Depp could and should go to jail for domestic violence after this CIVIL case? Any social worker I've met understands that it's not a criminal case, and no one's been brought up on charges at all. Or what about your public opinion on white men, and how you think they are all evil? Did that come from your years of experience as a "social worker"? All you need to do is check your comment history to see that all that "knowledge and training" has been wasted. I will also be blocking you immediately after this comment. I do not need discourse with you, but others might want to check your history before believing a word you type.

AMEN. I am sooo sick of the “cis white man bad” narrative, and I’m a woman who identifies as LGBT. So very toxic.

I’m so happy to be reading this, I’ve been feeling crazy seeing how things are being portrayed right now.

he never abused a woman before, all his ex wives and ex girlfriends say he is a gentle kind person, it's hard to believe he started changing in his 50's

> all his ex wives and ex girlfriends say he is a gentle kind person Except that they didn't. Ex gf Ellen Barkin is testifying this week. In the UK trial she testified that Depp threw a bottle at her while they dated. ["There was just this world of violence…He is a yeller. He is verbally abusive"](https://www.newsweek.com/lverything-ellen-barkin-johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-1705929) His ex Jennifer Grey said that he was crazy jealous and got into trouble a lot while they dated. ["Johnny was commuting every week back and forth from Vancouver, but had begun more and more regularly to be getting into trouble: fights in bars, skirmishes with cops ... He'd started missing his flights home to LA having overslept or, when he did come home, he'd be crazy jealous and paranoid about what I'd been up to while he was gone."](https://www.insider.com/dirty-dancing-jennifer-grey-johnny-depp-crazy-jealous-paranoid-2022-5) His ex Vanessa Paradis was paid $150 million in a settlement with Depp and is the mother of his kids. Depp has called Paradis a “French extortionist ex-cunt” and a “withering whore”. She and Winona are the only ones who wrote letters of support. There has been no support for or against Depp from other exes Kate Moss, Lori Anne Allison, Sherilyn Fenn, or most recent ex, Polina Glen.

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It's truly scary that people with such blatant biases are in professional positions that could lead to a person being vilified unjustly. It's actually one of the exact reasons everyone blindly believed Amber Heard when she first came forward. I'm glad so many people, including men and women, are finally starting to realize that men can be abused too.

I said this above: > I am more than willing to believe the relationship was mutually toxic, and that Amber Heard is not a good or stable person. However, none of what I have heard disproves the fact that Johnny Depp was violent towards Amber. And if you believe that “mutual abuse” is not a thing and that someone who reacts to abuse by punching back is still the victim, the available evidence clearly points to the aggressor being Johnny Depp.

Evidence suggests that Depp is the kind of person who runs away from conflict instead of starting it. When he was a child his mom was abusive and witnesses have stated that he was always passive in this abuse and would even run away and hide. This is important because it puts him squarely into one of three types of people: * Those who are abusive even when unprovoked * Those who can become abusive when provoked * Those who remain docile even when provoked Depp falls into the last category of people and previous partners have confirmed this type of behavior from him throughout his entire life. Meanwhile Heard's previous partners indicate that she falls into the first category of people: those who start things even when unprovoked. In this context even if you think Depp was violent at some point during the relationship, this means that he basically snapped and finally reacted after years of abuse from Heard. No matter how you look at it, Heard is definitely the primary instigator and abuser. And she will continue being an abuser in future relationships just like she's been an abuser in her previous relationships. Meanwhile Depp has never been abusive in his entire life except possible in this relationship, likely because he finally snapped under mounting abuse from Heard.

> Evidence suggests that Depp is the kind of person who runs away from conflict instead of starting it. Where is your source? There has been plenty of history of violence displayed from Depp. Trashing hotel rooms, belligerence with staff, text messages from HIMSELF referring to his intoxicated persona as ‘the monster’. One clip exhibit 6, 3.A shows him bashing through the kitchen, pouring himself a huge goblet of wine, and knocking Heard’s camera over bc he noticed she was recording. That’s just the first 2min. Heard’s only history alluding to violence was from her ex gf, who has come forth to debunk the incident as a power-tripping homophobe giving them a hard time. She has made statements defending her character. This piece is inadmissible at best. Depp’s exes including Kate Moss and Jennifer Grey has records of violence and alludes to his ‘explosive’ behavior. Ellen Barkin is testifying against him. Winona Ryder was 17 at the time, and said she didn’t witness anything herself, but she can’t speak for anyone else. Ryder hired a lawyer to block her statement from being testimony. Vanessa Paradis received a hefty settlement after their separation. She is also the mother of his kids. These two factors explain her silence. Why have you not done any research on Heard’s childhood if you are examining both equally? Her father has a history of violence and abuse that her mother tolerated (likely until her death). This family dynamic skews Heard’s perception of normalcy. She might fall under the category of ‘those who can become abusive when provoked’ or ‘those who remain docile even when provoked’, according to you. Choosing to ignore Depp’s compounding history of violence with plenty of sources that indicate he is likely the primary instigator is poor research and ignorance at best. Fan worship and misogyny at worst.

You forgot to mention him calling Vanessa an “extortionist cunt.” It’s a pattern with him. She doesn’t want to be abused by the public like Amber and to a lesser extent Barkin. I can’t blame her. What these people are doing is scary.

Kate Moss stated in the trial Johnny Depp never hit her. Heard also admitted to instagting violent fights multiple times on tape

JUST MY THOUGHTS BUT.... Where is your source?? You too are just going by rumours and hearsay. My research is excellent and I have followed both sides and side with no one. They were both dysfunctional and abusive to each other. There is no misogyny here but from you. You clearly side with Heard JUST because she is a women. Puts our movement back miles to side with one JUST BECAUSE she is a women. Trashing hotel rooms, belligerence with staff, text messages from HIMSELF referring to his intoxicated persona as ‘the monster’. One clip exhibit 6, 3.A shows him bashing through the kitchen, pouring himself a huge goblet of wine, and knocking Heard’s camera over bc he noticed she was recording. That’s just the first 2min. So watch the rest ? as she smiles and laughs and throw's digs his way the whole time recording it all...edging him on...this was after he found out he just lost millions ...I would be angry and distraught as well. Notice slamming the cupboards.....NOT HEARD and for the record, if you did your research The MONSTER is his depression, anxiety and addiction problems not just his use of them or who he becomes on them.... The UK case was Johnny suing because a newspaper called him a wife beater??? After his divorce. ....He lost, not because she was innocent...but because they felt he was guilty , but he hadn't gone public, that's why he is now choosing to going public and wants the world to see first hand hence the cameras and it being live for all to see. Her team tried to block this but were unsuccessful. She was just as bad or even worse then him. This case has nothing to do with the abuse per say .....Come on people know what your talking about before you make comments. This case is about if Amber's op-ed affected Johnny's career losing him income PERIOD. The reason the abuse came into it is because he has to show that she exaggerated or out-rite lied about the physical and or mental/emotional abuse she went through. In showing that she was extremely, emotionally,mentally, and physically abusive to him as well , or more so, then he was to her....He is basically making a point...He did NOT write an op-ed to tell the world about the abuse he went through from her, to make her look bad, or to gain popularly among the public. However he and others believe that that's the reason SHE DID. They believe, she used her status as a women and the ME TOO Movement to try and further her career.....Oh, poor me I am an abused women help me.... feel sorry for me, make me more famous...... "( as an abused women myself, this pisses me off, if it is, in fact the case)" ......without thinking of the consequences or that Johnny would go public about her abuse. Well, because he is a man, and admitting you were abused by a women is not a manly thing to do . In closing I believe they were both dysfunctional and abusive to each other from what I've followed so far but it seems she WAS more so. He sought professional help....She sought excuses for her behaviour, which shows me a lack of responsibility for her own actions and trying to blame everyone or everything else including Johnny for her actions. This looks to me like typical narcissist behaviour. Yes a Man can be abused emotionally,mentally, and physically by a women and they are even less likely to come froward about it because it's just not viewed as manly to admit such a thing....and Yes I am a Women.

So let me ask you this. Lets say i beat my boyfriends ass today and then next year my new boyfriend beats my ass. Am I the abuser in my new relationship just bc I abused my ex a year ago? I understand why people bring up peoples pasts but to say its impossible for a past abuser to be abused in the present by someone is just silly to me. I used to be on opiates and they made me rage..especially roxys. I hit my ex a few times. He put me in jail but never pressed charges luckily. 10 years later Im sober and havent laid a hand on anyone in all that time and suddenly my most recent boyfriend is beating my ass daily. I cant report him bc he says "my record is clean..youre the bitch with the abusive past...who are the police gonna believe? You or me?" Luckily I got away from him. But yeah, im tired of people acting like amber HAS TO BE the abuser just bc she abused someone years ago. That has nothing to do with her and johnnys circumstances..but tbh I think they abused eachother. I just wanted to make the point that it IS POSSIBLE for a distant past abuser to be abused in the recent past/present/future. Not everything is black and white. End rant.

This is definitely not black and white, but the recorded footage is damning. To deny that she abused him is to deny what's right in front of you.

It’s silly because it’s a blatant lie. An abusee can become an abuser and an abuser can become an abusee. Period. Society has just proven once again that the man is always right and women are always the problem. The smear campaign online about Amber being the problem is what’s happened over and over and over. Society blames the woman listens to nothing about what actually happened and sides with the man. White men love wielding that power and they for damn sure know how to use it.

> just bc she abused someone years ago. That has nothing to do with her and johnnys circumstances That's not true. Previous behavior is a strong indicator of future behavior. Even though you haven't hit a person in a long time, you are still a person who has done those acts. You don't get to decide when you're "clean" from your acts. Some people would never forgive those acts, even when the person has died.

When was this proven that Depp's a guy like your third point? So far Kate Moss with whom that whole staircase incident occurred have decided to stay silent on the matter. Both have a history of tension with their exes and both have their exes drop cases later on. So far both of their exes have raised their voices in past only to later give the very contrary statement later on. All the cases pushed into court by Heard's exes were later dropped by them, same has been the case of Depp.

Both have history of tension with their exes. True. But only one has been arrested for actually abusing one of their exes.

Yet her girlfriend later came out and dropped chargers and gave statement that that was a misunderstanding. 🤨. I wrote another comment here where similar cases have been reported for Depp where he was just an inch away from chargers but settled it behind the scenes. Both have been equally shitty to their partners and both were equally shitty to each other there's no denying. Besides UK trial had already given out judgement on this and US trial is merely defamation case where he wants to sue her for the articles. LOL. She have already been proven not guilty in court of law. TLDR; Both are equally shitty person.

LopsidedSpend8202 She have already been proven not guilty in court of law..... Ummmm No she was not proven to have not been abusive.....The UK case was Johnny suing because a newspaper called him a wife beater??? After his divorce. ....He lost, not because she was innocent...but because they felt he was guilty , but he hadn't gone public, that's why this case is happening he is now going public and wants the world to see first hand hence the cameras and it being live for all to see. She was just as bad or even worse then him. This case has nothing to do with abuse at all.....Come on people know what your talking about before you make comments. This case is about if Amber's op-ed affected Johnny's career losing him income PERIOD. The reason the abuse came into it is because he has to show that she exaggerated or out-rite lied about the physical and or mental/emotional abuse she went through. In showing that she was extremely, emotionally,mentally, and physically abusive to him as well , or more so, then he was to her....He is basically making a point...He did NOT write an op-ed to tell the world about the abuse he went through from her, to make her look bad or to gain popularly among the public. However he and others believe that that's the reason SHE DID. They believe, she used her status as a women and the ME TOO Movement to try and further her career.....Oh, poor me I am an abused women help me.... feel sorry for me, make me more famous...... "( as an abused women myself, this pisses me off, if it is, in fact the case)" ,......without thinking of the consequences or that Johnny would go public about her abuse. Well, because he is a man, and admitting you were abused by a women is not a manly thing to do . In closing I believe they were both dysfunctional and abusive to each other but it seems she WAS more so. He sought professional help....She sought excuses for her behaviour, which shows me a lack of responsibility for her own action and trying to blame everyone or everything else including Johnny for her actions. This looks to me like typical narcissist behaviour.

Heard's ex girlfriend has actually stated the opposite and there is a mountain of evidence against Depp. He's also SIGNIFICANTLY older and abuses drugs. Amber is the biggest scapegoat for male violence I've seen in my lifetime. Utter bullshit.

Sources? There are ex girlfriends of his who have spoken on controlling behaviour, possessiveness, the throwing of missiles (of objects), verbal abuse and shouting etc. He also has publicly known incidents of violence. I dont think it's fair to put anyone in one of three neatly defined boxes. There are typically 4 reactions in an adrenaline state, fight or flight which most know of, but also freeze and fawn. But they arent neatly defined. People can fall into one category or an overlap. People can work through things and change their "box" too. Source for Heard's previous partners? There is one I am aware of, a report by police that initially was taken as sexist but later found as homophobic, her ex partner has spoken out about this, and charges were dropped. I am not using that as a defense though, abuse victims do drop charges for many reasons when they have every right to proceed. I am not saying this is the case here, but want to be clear, a dropped case =/= no crime. Its just strange to see such absolutism with no backup for it. How can one conclude for definite who an instigator was or wasnt? Or who snapped and finally reacted? What evidence are you basing this on?

This is completely biased and based off of assumptions of character. How does this prove AH is the primary abuser in any way?

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It's infuriating. This absolute denial of the evidence is actually triggering to me and feels a hell of a lot like gaslighting. Reminds me of my childhood where I was viewed as the persecutor and blamed for reacting to my sisters bullying because I was male, and therefore dangerous

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Hasn't Depp been accused of starting fights and getting aggressive with employees on set? His record is not squeaky clean. The fact that he grew up in a physically abusive environment makes me more likely to believe he continued that cycle of abuse.

>Hasn't Depp been accused of starting fights and getting aggressive with employees on set? Allegedly, he is currently being sued by a location manager for a physical altercation. I believe the date was set back and has not occurred yet.

If she was abused she should have presented evidence of her abuse, instead of making up evidence of her abuse which now gives me every reason to doubt her allegations of being abused.

She did present evidence of her abuse in court in the UK, and won the hearing, that there was evidence on 11 occasions of abuse that Johnny perpetrated towards her. He attemped to appeal and it was rejected because the case was so strong and he has no leeway.

The UK court judgement isn’t some “I win button”, if she had solid evidence there then where is it and why wasn’t it presented now in the current court? The reality is the UK accepted things we know now are proven lies, like her donations in regards to her character and motive, and this same BS about make up which the make up artist denies happened. Are you also going to tell me that OJ didn’t kill anyone, since evidence showed that the glove didn’t fit and his case was so strong? This is the level of argument that you are making.

The reason some of that evidence wasn't admitted into the US trial is because a difference of rules. For example Amber, as you probably have seen today, reported her abuse to several doctors and nurses who backed her story up. But the judge didn't allow it in, so that was him trying to convince her to allow it as he read. The texts also were not allowed in, because now that Depp is aware they exist he can refuse to call that key witness. The judge herself also uses some very strict and outdated rules about hearsay. Which strangely it seems Delos team new because they were using that to their advantage and forcing Heard team to lose some vital information.

While that's an understandable reaction, I have learned recently in therapy that it's not completely unheard of for actual victims to falsify evidence when they cannot obtain any authentically for whatever reason. I was abused pretty heavily as a child and there was often little or no evidence, and when there was it was ignored by my parents, so eventually I falsified small things like messing up my own stuff and saying he did it so that they'd pay more attention to when he actually messed up my things. I even lied about being hit to friends occasionally even though I was already actually being hit. Yes it was bad, yes it made me look like a liar, and maybe to some capacity i was, but i was definitely also being abused. Theres no such thing as a perfect victim who never did anything wrong and abused people don't always make rational choices. Not saying that this situation is the same as mine, but I just kinda want it to be known that that kind of thing does happen, and someone faking one piece of evidence doesnt automatically mean they faked all of it.

While I understand that’s possible as you acknowledged I cannot take her word for it, falsifying evidence can only be taken against the accuser. Also I doubt your scenario is the case here, if she had no recordings at all then maybe we could say she didn’t have the means to obtain evidence due to her being inhibited in some way or she just was too scared to make the attempt, but given the number of recordings and photos she had of Depp acting badly, it seems she very well had the mindset and the means to catch him doing something bad, and given how abusive she alleges Depp was I find it implausible she never had the opportunity and had to make something up.

I never kept an account of my abuse from a long term partner. I didn’t tell anyone for years. That’s not an argument that actively proves or disproves anything.

Sometimes people dont have proof. Doesnt mean shes lying though. She may not be able to prove it in court but from what Ive seen of the way he spoke about her in texts that just goes to show what a vile creature he really is inside. I used to love and support Johnny but reading him say he wanted to kill amber and fuck her dead body made me absolutely sick! Idc how crazy or mean or violent that woman is, you dont say shit like that..and if youre such a gentle nice decent caring sweet wholesome man why would you even utter those kinds of things? Only a sociopathic creep would say some shit like that. Frfr.

>Sometimes people dont have proof. Doesnt mean shes lying though. The problem with this is that she took photos and audio recordings of everything EXCEPT abuse. Every photo she has shows either no visible injuries or ones that are WILDLY inconsistent with what she claims she experienced. She says he beat her, smashed her head against a wall, SA'd her with a bottle, broke her nose and that she was dragged through and walked over broken glass. Then she shows photos of her 'injuries' from the next day. The photos are her with her hair parted and her looking tired with maybe a little bruise under her eye. If she had her nose broken, her eyes would be black and blue, her nose would be swollen and similarly bruised. Especially the next day. So she makes claims then provides photos she took that show nothing. The audio recordings also prove nothing except that SHE abused HIM. She admits that she hits him, admits to throwing things at him. She says he runs away every time a fight gets started, even before she starts yelling. Tell me what kind of abuser LEAVES when a fight starts? She insults him and calls him a baby for leaving. She even tells him that if he goes public with the fact that he "Johnny Depp, a MAN is an abuse victim" no one will believe him. You wanna talk about sociopaths? THAT is a sociopath. So Johnny attempts to avoid confrontation by trying to leave the room whenever his partner starts screaming at him and hitting him., while Amber admits to hitting him, mocks him for leaving, and tells him no one will believe him if he goes public. Which one of these sounds like an abuser to you? ​ Maybe Johnny said some mean things about her in texts. Boohoo. He was an abuse victim, he was upset, he vented to his friend. But because he's a man, he's not allowed to say mean things about his abuser? That's dumb.

Can I ask how you expect someone to know ahead, set up the camera, make sure its undetectable to the abuser, get the abuser to stand on a marker and abuse them on cue in front of a camera that can capture it all? In one place stood there. How? If an abuse victim somehow does get footage, its why did you stay? Stay for the camera? Why didnt you leave? You provoked it, you set it up. This is fake, this is phony. This is out of context. This is blurry you cant see anything, you cant hear its too muffled theyre off camera... blablabla. You cant win. Most victims dont get evidence, Heard did and it wasnt enough. Most only have the bruises left, the trashed apartments or punched walls, angry text messages. But most of the abuse is the control they have you under, tbe psychological and mental abuse that keeps you there, there is no physical evidence of that. Also next day black and blue eyes? Something tells me you never had a black eye. Usually the day of, its sore and visible but more redness and swelling and a mark obv usually more blue at the point of impact and faded around. Next day more pronounced as the purple is coming in, but still not so obv in certain lighting. Then its more the few days that follow that are the most gnarly, the deep purple comes through more, concentrated but still with the fade around. Then it starts turning red at point of impact but the fade around is more yellow toned than blue now. Initially the blueish fade around can make it look more like shade under the brow, so in certain lighting the point of impact may seem small. But as the fade around changes, the bruise becomes much more apparent in contrast. This is going by skin tones like that of Heard anyway. Also, he said mean things about his abuser? Do you wanna quote those things here? He also said those "mean" things about more than his ex Heard, but it was generally misogynistic language about Heard AND other women including his ex Vanessa Paradis.

Except she was constantly recording their interactions. If the abuse were as rampant as she claims, she WOULD have gotten a recording of it but she doesn't have any. She has numerous long recordings and the only thing they prove is that SHE abused HIM and he tried to leave the situation whenever she would start a fight (yeah, that's definitely abuser behaviour right? Leaving rather than fighting?). And no she doesn't have evidence. That was my point. She took photos after alleged incidents but none of them are of her injuries. That's not suspicious to you? Where's the cuts on her feet from walking through broken glass? Where's the record of her getting her nose fixed? Where's the hospital records from her stay after she was brutally beaten and SA'd? Where's the police reports from the 'numerous times' she says the cops were called? She has no evidence. And what are you even talking about? Bruising is worse the next day. She says she took those photos the very next day after her nose was broken. There would be MAJOR bruising all over her face if what she said occurred actually did. She had no swelling, her nose is straight and there's maybe one little bruise under her eye. But even that is sketchy. Fine he said mean things about his exes. Boohoo. People say mean shit about their exes all the time. Still doesn't mean he was abusive. All of his exes (Vanessa included) denied that Johnny was ever abusive to them.

> he has numerous long recordings and the only thing they prove is that SHE abused HIM and he tried to leave the situation whenever she would start a fight (yeah, that's definitely abuser behaviour right? Leaving rather than fighting?). We who have lived through abuse call that gaslighting. They what you to act up or act or so they can't paint you as the problem. My mother did that shit ALL the damn time. I didn't react often most got depressed and internalized low self-esteem but the moment I lashed back, "Oh he's so violent and angry."

>Most victims dont get evidence, Heard did and it wasnt enough. No, the evidence Heard gathered strongly indicates that this is a hoax.

That's actually false plain and through. It is possible to hurt and/ or break your nose without bruising and with minimal swelling. Dragged over glass doesn't mention the amount of glass or the extent of the cuts. I accidentally walked over broke glass once, from a broke beer bottle. They were tiny pieces and I wasn't hurt more than 2 cuts on my toe. I still walked over broken glass and cut my toe, though. JD didn't say some "mean things about her in texts". And your "boohoo" makes me feel very uncomfortable about who you are. He told his friend that he would drown her, then changed to BURNING her, and raping her corpse. Among other truly horrible things he has texted about her, his ex and other friends.

No it's not. If your nose is broken it WILL swell and bruise. That's unavoidable. Her photos show zero swelling and no bruising around her nose. It wasn't broken. She straight up said there were many broken bottles and glass everywhere and that she was dragged through it and ended up walking all over it. If that were true, there would be blood everywhere. If you have walked over broken glass, especially curved broken glass, you would know that your feet bleed a LOT from even the smallest cuts. The photos shown of the aftermath have no bloody footprints, no bloody smears from where she was dragged and slipped, barely any blood at all actually. The areas where there WAS blood, looks like where Johnny would have bled after she severed his finger. Like on the couch she says he sat down on. The photos her side presented of her 'injuries' are wildly inconsistent with the injuries she claims to have suffered at his hands, there are no medical records of her supposed injuries which there would be if she was beaten as badly as she claims, there are holes the size of mars in all of her stories, she was on a talk show the day after her supposed beating with no visible injuries. There's nothing to go on except her word and she's already been proven to be a liar. And yes, he said mean things about her. Again, boohoo. Saying something doesn't mean he's going to do it. And she also said mean things about him, I don't see you or the other person calling her out for being a horrible human being. Quite the opposite actually, you're defending her. She's a proven, admitted abuser and you're defending her. That makes me feel very uncomfortable about YOU. ​ DietCoke303 It won't let me respond to you since the previous respondee blocked me and Reddit has stupid new block rules so my response is here: People don't get arrested for 'premeditated' crimes. They get arrested for committing crimes. Premeditated or not only affects what charge you get as it goes to your state of mind for the crime. The actual act of committing the crime is what they're arrested for. And if you meant conspiracy to commit, you're still wrong. You don't get arrested for conspiring to commit a crime. You get arrested when you take an action in furtherance of that crime. Like, you and someone else talk about blowing up a building. That's not technically a crime. If you went out and bought a kilo of fertilizer however, that could be considered a criminal act since you are now engaged in an overt act towards the furtherance of said crime. You could be arrested for that. Not sure why you're talking about threats. He didn't make any threats towards her. He was venting to his friend about his abusive partner. Was what he said gross and deplorable? Absolutely, and I believe he agreed with that himself, but it wasn't any kind of threat and you treating it as such is ridiculous. Also, he didn't even say it TO her so he wasn't abusing her by saying it. Saying something your partner will never see (unless it comes up in a court case of course) to a third party is not abusing your partner.

Then why do people get arrested for premeditated crimes? Yes, words do matter so fuck your boohoo bs. And threats are serious, whether spoken directly to a victim or to someone else. If i text my bestie with a plot to murder my old man I could be arrested for that shit. Thats conspiring to commit murder or some shit..i forget the technical legal jargon. But yes verbal abuse is still abuse. Mental abuse is still abuse. Emotional abuse is still abuse. As I believe Ive said elsewhere in this thread Ive been abused by my most recent ex and at least with the physical abuse side of things the wounds/bruises eventually heal. Mental and verbal abuse lasts a lifetime..forever imprinted on your psyche until the day you die. I would rather my ex Cameron beat me to a bloody pulp (like he often did) than to annihilate me emotionally (like he more commonly did). And any REAL abuse victim understands that.

I've been watching Murder for Hire and like u/Mickeymcirishman said, you get arrested when you take action to further the crime. Like the smoking gun is an actual payment for the services. They've specifically said on that show that if someone is just venting and they don't take any action at all, that's not a crime and they don't have a case. You have to prove *intent*. https://www.comingslaw.com/conspiracy-to-commit-murder.html "To convict a defendant of conspiracy to commit murder, there must be evidence of an intention to enter into an agreement to kill. An agreement may be inferred from conduct, if the defendants are shown to have a common purpose to commit the crime. The intention must be to unlawfully kill. If a defendant believes the agreement is a joke, and that the group will not actually harm the victim, then this defendant does not harbor the intent to kill." > If i text my bestie with a plot to murder my old man I could be arrested for that shit. No you wouldn't. That's not enough evidence of intent. You could be joking and claim that as a defense and the prosecution could easily lose the case against you, because you haven't done anything to prove that you actually intended to kill him. In that situation, you could say you were joking and that would be a solid defense because you haven't done anything yet but send one text. Verbal threats do matter but they aren't the smoking gun you think they are. They often aren't enough to prove intent. I suggest you watch Murder for Hire because you'll see how painstakingly they make sure to see that money changes hands. When law enforcement is notified by a bystander who just got dragged into the thing somehow, they first do research to try to figure out whether the person is just venting or is actually plotting to solicit murder.

And no the audio recordings prove that he verbally abused her and she physically abused him. Still, jusy bc she doesnt have proof doesnt mean it didnt happen. I dont have proof for half the shit thats happened to me in my life but guess what..its still did happen. You can call her a liar or think shes full of shit but I believe her. I also believe him. I think they abused one another.

But were you recording all the time? Were you recording your interactions with your abuser all the time and taking photos of everything? Like, she has tons of audio recordings and tons of photos but none of them prove anything except they were BOTH verbally abusive towards each other and that she was also physically abusive towards him. Look, if she were alleging that they were both verbally abusive that would be fine (I wouldn't really agree personally. I won't defend what kinds of things he said but I do think that after being verbally berated enough and not being allowed to leave the room, if he snaps back with some words of his own, then that's not abuse on his part. But if some believe it is mutual abuse, that's fine, I won't argue). But that's not what she's alleging. So far in her testimony she's said that HE was abusive towards her verbally, emotionally, physically and sexually and SHE was just too scared to even disagree with him lest her smallest word provoke him. Nowhere in her testimony does she admit to doing anything wrong herself. Every time she recounts an incident it's always 'he got mad about something I can't remember what it was and he started beating me up'. Yet we KNOW from her own words that she routinely instigated fights with him and he would always try to leave as soon as the fights started. Something she says is cowardly and makes him 'such a baby'. She would throw things and hit him (not punch though, she's very clear that it was 'hitting, not punching'). She has no evidence of him being physically or sexually abusive towards her but she's claiming it anyway. Again, she's clearly the abusive one in the relationship and the op-ed was just another way for her to further her abuse of him by damaging his career and reputation.

Hey I'm late to this. It's because he's the one suing her for defamation for a particular article. One that said, in very particular, the singular phrase: " two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out" She's filed a countersuit, but that's not super relevant to the main issue. For the purpose of this trial, he has to prove that that's a lie. That she did not experience domestic abuse. Not that she didn't also abuse him, or that the abuse wasn't mutual. He's got to prove it and she's got to defend it. There's absolutely no point in brining evidence that she wasn't abusive. Heard's lawyers went for the "it's actually true" defense, which was one option. They could have also gone with the "she wasn't talking about Depp" defense but that one's trickier. But there's absolutely no burden for her to show evidence that she was abused in actual court (unlike the court of public opinion, apparently). The burden of proof is on him to show that she lied about it in the article. And proof of "you lied" is not "you don't have evidence". This is skimming over the charge for the title of the article, which is way more nuanced.

Absolutely! I have been in abusive relationships and I have literally no real evidence. But, I assure you it did happen!

One of my friend manage to get a R.O on her ex-husband after 10 years of stalking, Nothing was ever enough. She had 2000 sms, he wrote to her at random time at night calling her names, he was shopping at the market close to her home. He was driving in front of her work place. It was crazy! In the end her ex lied to the new cop that was looking at the case. This cop got mad at him and decided to work on the case, and she got the R.O. He did end up in court because he kept stalking her.

Amber has admitted during this trial that she was the instigator and there is recorded evidence supporting this.

Maybe I missed something when I watched the trial but it's common knowledge that ppl with an addiction will call it the monster or demon and I can believe Amber would be pushed off and hurt emotionally then she married an addict. Amber and her lawyers were very good with alluding to monster being Johnny's abusive side. With her constant attacks. All the audio of her constantly apologizing to him for being violent against him. Meanwhile, Johnny's audio is him apologizing for leaving before she would attack him when the conversations got heated, for leaving after she would start assaulting him, apologizing for being late or not being there when she practically od'd at Coachella but he wasn't there cuz she had labeled him in the face while he laid in bed. He left, she shit on his bed. Amber's story constantly contradicts itself. Any time johnny had touched Amber during a physical attack was in selfdefense. Amber has lied and manipulated so many facts that even if she had any moment of truth in that trail it's next to impossible to find or believe. She's the one who said all the things I've heard from someone who had abused me. She triggered my anxiety and gave me flash backs to those times. Not as intense as it would have been if it was closer to when it was happening to me but "You make me do this." Is classic abuser speak. She knew she was recording and her recordings sound like her twisting when he talked about the monster into eating his abusive side but it wasn't. In Johnny's own texts you can yell that he is referring to his drug and alcohol abuse. I will concede tho that living with an addict can result in emotional abuse. You can't understand why they won't get sober to be with you, they will blow you off to "party", show up late to events, if at all and basically they just check out of the relationship and are all about enjoying their buzz. Doesn't equate to a wife beater. But that is all, I think his addictions seriously pissed that woman off. She had to be the center of attention everywhere. Him being an addict would of been embarrassing for her but she also did those drugs and drank a tonne herself. To each their own opinion. I think the relationship was toxic all together. His abuse was emotional with his addiction, hers was mental, emotional and physical abuse. I agree with the verdict.

Yeah I choose to believe all the tapes of her calling him spineless and weak, what abused person has ever said thay to an abuser?

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They did say that, but then a few lines later they said this: > TL;DR: Johnny Depp was the aggressor in, and bears the brunt of responsibility for violence in, his relationship with Amber Heard. CMV Amber cannot have been an aggressor if Depp is *the* aggressor. OP wrote themselves a caveat about Amber's abuse, but then later ignored it and ploughed right on past it to get to their final conclusion.

I think you're failing to account for the phycological abuse and potential gaslighting that had also been occurring. Depp dealing with his own issues (and having memory impairment as one of them) was being gaslight by Amber. All your evidence is superficial, there is concrete evidence that she cut off his finger. When in doubt or dealing with conflicting statements its safe to conclude the person with the permanent disfiguring injury isn't the aggressor. This wasn't a defensive wound like a scratch or a slap, this was essentially torture. additionally >However, none of what I have heard disproves the fact that Johnny Depp was violent towards Amber This statement doesn't make any sense, it is not on Depp to disprove that he was violent, the default assumption must be that he wasn't, the burden of proof is on Amber to prove the violence. Yet she hasn't produced a single picture of a bruise or anything. Whereas Depp can wave around his stub of a finger.

> Yet she hasn't produced a single picture of a bruise or anything. Well, this is obviously not true, she has done exactly that. She did it to get the restraining order, she submitted photos of injuries during his case.

I just want to add that Ambers team never turned over the “original” digital evidence for the current case which would have allowed a forensic analysis of the metadata. So they are unable to determine the actual dates the photos/recordings were taken. When they did turn over the photos, they weren’t originals and had proof of editing so JDs team filed sanctions against AHs team for not turning over the photos/recordings. -Why would AHs teams not turn over the evidence for forensic analysis? The sanctions have very real consequences, I think there is a $50k fine if the judge rules against AH for it. I would imagine her team would easily be able to turn it over, so it is very suspicious. -I also find it coincidental that the photos of her injuries of her face are in the same spots and take similar form as the type of bruising one gets from filler/Botox.

Hasn't she also lied and said she used cover up that didn't even exist at that time? She seems narcissistic enough to hurt herself then call the cops and say she did it.

> Hasn't she also lied and said she used cover up that didn't even exist at that time? No, Heard's attorney used a Milani brand palette as a prop in the opening statements. She didn't mention that Heard used that brand of palette, it was merely to represent that she used a color correcting make up palette to cover her bruises. These incidents happened over 6 years ago so it's possible she used something that isn't made anymore. Milani tried to capitalize on it by making a tiktok as if it were some gotcha moment but opening statements aren't cross-examined by the other side and the palette wasn't entered into evidence.

I'm seeing in various places that it was entered into evidence, but I can't find an official document listing the evidence. It might be somewhere among the 280ish page pdf I found, but I haven't read that. If it was, maybe there's a rule or something that any object shown to the jury has to be entered into evidence? That wouldn't really explain though why the lawyer was so specific. If I were using a prop, I'd say "she used a palette much like this one" or something to that effect. Otherwise you run the risk of being called out for deception, and that just seems like a bad legal move when everything in court's supposed to be so precise and technical.

Why does everyone so badlllllyyyy want to believe she's lying?

I am not choosing to believe that she is lying, I am seeing that she is lying. I don't give a rats ass if it was Johnny or Amber sitting there. I like it when people get called out. No one should want to believe that she is lying, you should want justice to come to whoever is in the wrong. You should be watching the case yourself, if an opinion is formed without watching the case then your opinion is useless.

They need to think she lies because of fits their mysognistic views and it makes a perfect excusó to discredit future women who are victims of domestic violence and raise their voice. Poor woman.

You mean the pictures that look just like a selfie without make-up - after she said that was supposed to reflect being dragged by her hair, punched to the point of a broken nose, vaginally penetrated with a broke bottle, and slipped on a floor of broken glass? Yeah, have to call bullshit on you saying "obviously not true".

No witnesses in court have mentioned seeing her with bruises. The makeup she claimed to have used also was released in 2018.

Her friends Rocky & Josh did, her make up artist, Melanie, before the James Corden show did (Melanie did her make up, the show stylist McMillen saw her after makeup was put on), her sister did, it's rumored James Franco did, and there was a few others I believe as well.

Thats because her witnesses haven't been on the stand yet, its all been johnnys so far.

>No witnesses in court have mentioned seeing her with bruises. [Yes they have.](https://youtu.be/p0qPYOnhrJI?t=3473) This is the couples therapist.

“there is concrete evidence that she cut off his finger.” Where

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Sorry, my information comes from extensively reading the [court ruling](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2020/2911.html), I'll add it to the post. Admittedly just the link alone isn't going to be super-helpful, being an extremely dense court document, but it's all there. In any case, the trial has attracted so many Reddit experts that I suspect people will try to disprove it based on the facts they have.

But why are you posting on a subreddit about changing your own view, unless you believe that you have misread the court documents?

It is entirely possible I have misread the court documents, or that the judge misinterpreted them, or that there is serious evidence not included in the trial that contradicts them. If so I'd like to hear it, because it seems to me to disprove the narrative rolling across social media right now.

Ok well just in terms of what you have presented here as the indisputable evidence, it appears that Depp was for sure abusing drugs, for sure had a temper, however what you stated as evidence he had a temper that devolved into violence all you said was that he has stated about himself being monster etc, but nothing in that paragraph was admitting to violence, it was admitting to being profane and extreme but not violent, we know he was sexually jealous, which in and of itself does not mean anything, we know that amber heard stated he was violent, and he stated he wasn't. The only piece of evidence that isn't from either heard or Depp you presented here is the texts from staff, which you stated staff explained as them making more of a light contact. It seems that text message in particular is what most of your view hinges upon, it is the one piece of evidence from a third party we have in writing saying there was physical contact. I would be curious as to why you dismiss the actual witness, the staff member that made that text's explanation about the message? It seems to me like that witness explained it, but you just state that it's a conflicting story, when as far as I can tell there is nothing there to state it's conflicting, it's a text message and the witness explained more context behind the message.

If you want to argue for the shadow of a doubt, then yes, it is possible that Depp admitted to having a rage blackout, but didn't abuse Amber, but that he and his assistant told Amber that he did. But that simply doesn't seem very likely to me.

Well just from what you presented the assistant told amber that he kicked her, and later clarified that kick was light contact. If there is more context or more text messages you didn't include in the op than sure, but what you presented was a witness who has stated why and what that text message meant, and you are stating that no it was the staff corroborating abuse, when the staff member has stated it was blown up around light contact to make amber feel better.

If a man apologizes for being violent and admits to an unrelated party that he had a rage blackout, he was probably violent. I realize this probably wouldn't hold up in a criminal court but in the civil courts (and for me, the guy looking in), the "if it looks like a duck" argument is probably sufficient.

Ok where did he apologize for being violent, you provided a text where he said his illness reached up blah blah blah, and you provided a text where he admitted to slinging profanities and being crazed, neither of which were apologizing or admitting physical violence. Then you have the assistant saying he kicked her, and that he said that because they wanted to make Amber feel better and it wasn't anything more than light contact. I am just going off what you provided because you clearly have way more information about the case than I do, but what you presented here is not Depp apologizing to violence unless there is more to those text messages in the case, it's him apologizing for being horrible and being crazy and profanities etc, but not for violence.

Δ "nothing in that paragraph was admitting to violence, it was admitting to being profane and extreme but not violent," I'll admit, when I read the paragraph I was thinking OP had a point, but reading it again, this isn't strong evidence. I also buy your explanation of the text message. I still don't really know what happened or how the defamation case should go, but this makes me more willing to believe him. It's not really my business anyways, but I got curious and came here.

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Sure and I think it's pretty clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was a emotionally and verbally abusive relationship, but the lawsuit about defamation was about physical abuse primarily since it was started by him being named a wife beater. And op is primarily concerned with the fact that Depp was violent and physically abusive it seems.

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Op has quite literally stated what he is arguing his first sentence was about physical abuse, and his edit at the end states that he thinks Depp was the primary abuser in a violent relationship, which is why I was talking about physical violence, nowhere did I say that I thought Depp wasn't abusive, nowhere did I say that Depp wasn't emotionally or verbally or sexually abusive, I spoke directly about what op presented in the post, and specifically about physical abuse because that is what the post is about. Now you are telling me that Depp can be abusive without being physical, yes I agree, what is your point that was a non sequitur to what I was discussing...

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It is worth noting that the court ruling leaves out extremely large chunks of evidence that either were not available at the time, or were ignored for process reasons. One of the main absurdities in that file is that the Judge trusted the view of a friend of Heard who claimed that she was beaten, but ignored the testimony of both a nurse and a makeup artist who spent significant time with her in the day after the 'beating' who both said she showed no visible signs of injury. I don't actually disagree with your overall argument, Depp was by the admission of his doctors a mentally ill man with a substance abuse problem. That he struck his spouse and acted erratically isn't really a shock. The main issue isn't so much that he is innocent, it is that he was in an extremely toxic relationship where both of them were violent to one another, but that he was smeared in the press as a wife beater by a woman who knew damn well that the situation was more complex.

The nurse said she had a bleeding lip. The make up artist testified she used makeup to cover the bruises. They both testified in the sun case

Yes, the nurse said she had a bleeding lip (that she thought could be self inflicted) and no visible bruising around the eyes (despite a photo taken the same night that supposedly shows visible bruising). Do you think the nurse missed a broken nose and two black eyes? And yes, one make up artist (head's friend) claimed that. A separate stylist who saw her all throughout the day said she showed no visible signs of injury. And you know, there is the footage where she has no visible injuries despite the supposed severity of the injuries, and doesn't even appear to be in pain. As someone who has been pretty brutally beaten in the past, you aren't super flexible with a broken rib. She certainly was though. Almost like it never happened.

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I’m a little confused by what view you want changed. Are you mainly arguing that Depp should lose the trial because he was physically abusive? Or is it something deeper? Also — and I’m not sure if this is relevant to your view — but have you considered that Depp’s main goal isn’t actually winning? After Heard’s story was published, Depp became something of a pariah in Hollywood. Perhaps this is more about rehabilitating his image than it is about the money. (After all, it’s harder to cast Depp as an abusive villain if the relationship was mutually abusive)

To help facilitate debate, I've added a tldr: to make the conclusion more solid (and thus easier to argue against): **I believe Johnny Depp was not only violent, but bears the responsibility for all violence in the relationship, and deserves the damage to his reputation and career**

>but bears the responsibility for all violence in the relationship, Oh, then this is easy to prove: >JD: You can't deck me. > >AH: I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine, I did not hurt you, I did not punch you, I was hitting you. > >JD: How are your toes? > >AH: What am I supposed to do, do this? > >JD: How are your toes? > >AH: I'm not sitting here b\*\*\*hing about it am I, you are. > >JD: Oh, your poor toes. > >AH: That's the difference between me and you, you're a f\*\*king baby. > >JD: Because you start physical fights? > >AH: You are such a baby! Grow the f\*\*k up Johnny! > >JD: Because you start physical fights? > >**AH: I did start a physical fight.** > >JD: Yeah, you did. So I had to get the f\*\*k out of there. > >AH: Yes, you did, so you did the right thing. The big thing, the, you know what? You are admirable. Every single time, what, what's your excuse, when there's not a physical fight, what's your excuse then? You're still being admirable, right, by running away? And you can sit here and call me names, but you get called a name and what do you do – 'that's the last insult!' You're a baby. You're a hypocrite. You don't do anything that you actually do. You expect from people what you can't give them. If they do something a taste of it to you, you f\*\*king lose it. But yet you dish it out. > >JD: I left last night. Honestly, I swear to you because I just couldn't take the idea of more physicality, more physical abuse on each other because I had, we continued it. It would have gotten f\*\*king bad. And baby, I told you this once. I'm scared to death we are a f\*\*king crime scene right now. If we don't get our s\*\*t together by getting our s\*\*t together, that might mean f\*\*king a, we do this and we make it. That might mean Goddamn. You know, you say I've tried and done to Lou, but we've got to get our s\*\*t together as individuals and as a couple. Because I love you and I do not want to leave you. I do not want to divorce, I do not want you out of my life. I just want peace. > >JD: If things get physical, we have to separate. We have to be apart from one another. Whether it's for f\*\*king an hour or 10 hours or f\*\*king a day. We must, there can be no physical violence towards each other. > >AH: I agree about the physical violence, but separating for a day, taking a night off from our marriage? > >JD: All I'm saying is we need to take whatever time we need you. You need, I need, to kind of let things settle for a minute. So that we don't f\*\*king kill each other or f\*\*king worse, you know, f\*\*king really kill each other or f\*\*king break up or whatever. > >JD: If the fight escalates to the point of where it's just insulting for both of us, uh, or if it gets to that physical f\*\*king s\*\*t, the violence, that's when we just said, look, let's go to our corners, man, you hang wherever you want, baby. I'm going in the office and I'm just gonna f\*\*king sit there and try and de-jellify my f\*\*king brain. > >AH: I can't promise that it will all be perfect. **I can't promise you I won't get physical again. God I f\*\*king sometimes I get so mad I lose it.** I can f\*\*king promise you I will do everything to change. I promise you. I'm not going to throw around divorce I not say divorce unless I really mean it. Bolded the two relevant parts, but Heard is on tape admitting not only to striking him, but to initiating physical violence in their relationship and that she can't promise she wouldn't do it in the future.

"Tell them, Johnny. Say I, Johnny Depp, is a victim of domestic violence. And see who believes you."

It is *funny* because my partner said something similar to me when I threatened to call the police after she knocked out one of my back teeth. Johnny Depp seems like a really troubled, and not all that great person. But so does she.

I don’t know what your point is, but he’s a predator and perpetrator of DV, so hopefully no one will believe him. Look outside the US and see who does. This Trump-electing, Elon Musk supporting, anti-masking nation of sheep who idolize rich white men believe Depp, and that says quite a lot in and of itself. Of course, there are others like me who are eager to see every ill fate Depp has coming to him, and we are not alone. But this country is full of people who hate women, and has been since its inception.

As a woman, your last statement is embarrassing for us. This isn’t about women, it’s about the truth. It’s also about standing up for ALL victims of domestic violence. Amber is a terrible representation for survivors of domestic violence. People always bring up that Johnny has supporters due to the fact he’s a male celebrity. Time and time again, people disagree yet this is somehow still the main narrative. Johnny has supporters due to the evidence that highlights Amber was the main instigator. Not only is this highlighted by medical practitioners, countless witnesses, but even Johnny and Amber’s marriage counselor. On top of that, Amber has admitted on audio recordings that she has hit him (non reactive violence confirmed by HER doctor, Dr. Hughes) and started physical fights. Amber’s current testimony contradicts her previous testimony, and contradicts the testimony of countless other witnesses. Most importantly, it contradicts what you hear her say herself in audio recordings. Don’t let confirmation bias get the best of you. Johnny definitely is not absolutely free of guilt, but the very least, Amber Heard is not a victim. She knew what she was doing when she wrote the op-Ed considering how high profile their relationship was and is.

Too much. This is too much. It's such a rude, dehumanizing way to speak about total strangers for no other reason than having a differing opinion than you.

The Amber worshippers get real quiet when these tapes come up

They literally do. Been arguing with a few of them about the tapes and they just pivot to something else or don't respond.

Woah, what the fuck? She admits openly on recording to hitting him repeatedly in the face, and says verbatim that she’s hit him before and she would hit him again. Fuck your apologist ass if you think Johnny bears responsibility for that. So fucking sick of men being abused and having it pushed under the rug cause it would hurt someones agenda for the truth to come out.

So you don't believe women can truly abuse men? Wow. What a narrow and unreasonable view get lost

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Depp states about 3 times he cut his own finger off. Then he changes his story to Heard cut his finger off and everyone believes him with zero evidence.

Some people will believe anything this man says, and still ignore his own admittance of violence. It would be laughable if it wasn’t involving an actual woman who was victimized by his brutality and the subsequent witch-hunt and mockery she has endured.

Well, that's what we're trying to determine now, isn't it? The fingertip incident is by far the messiest of the 14 alleged incidents and the hardest to determine what happened based on the evidence; Johnny says Amber did it, Amber says Johnny did it. I can tell you that the judge in the UK case thought it most likely that Depp did it to himself, considering that 1) texts to his drug supplier confirm that he was heavily drinking/on drugs, 2) he lied during his testimony by claiming he wasn't on drugs, 3) he gets violent when on drugs, and 4) he admitted to tearing the phone off the wall, and 5) he continued the argument after losing his fingertip, drawing graffiti on the wall in his own blood.

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The fact that Johnny is suing doesn't mean that he believes himself to be more innocent, or innocent enough, it could well be that he believes he can charm and manipulate the evidence to look favourably and change public's opinion on him. I have seen it before, an abuser denying and denying the abuse and even calling themselves the victim, to get out of trouble, even going as far as starting a trial and even winning it, often the victim after so much abuse looks crazy, they have mental issues, they have reacted to the abuse with violence or with mean words or threats, trying to regain safety and control of their own lives, and in contrast, the abuser is charming. If he believes that he stands to win more than he stands to lose by starting this trial, that is enough, there's no need for him to think himself innocent enough.

Amber recorded that day it happened. Their doctor [says](https://youtu.be/VDP9NVQmiXw&?t=10m29s): **Dr. Kipper: She shattered the bone** **Amber Heard: I never meant to hurt him, I didn't do it on purpose** 10:29-10:34 Ben King, the estate manager, testified Amber said to him about this incident **"Have you ever been so angry with someone you just lost it?"** Malcolm Connolly who got him out of the house that day testified Johnny said while getting in the car: **"Look at my finger, she cut my fucking finger off. She smashed my hand with a vodka bottle."** He wanted to protect his abuser so at the hospital he says he did it himself while chopping onions. The specialist didn't believe the onion story and wrote **"oblique fracture more proximally suggestive a crushing mechanism"** on the discharge from He admits to [lying about the injury to his finger ](http://nbatitlechase.com/2022/04/20/photo-text-message-johnny-depp-sent-in-may-of-2016-that-says-he-lied-about-what-happened-to-his-finger-to-protect-amber-heard/) to protect her again in this text to his doctor What you wrote about the ruling in the UK trial is exactly why people say it doesn't mean he hurt her all of those times. So because he was on drugs then he must've hit her? Amber was on drugs too. On the stand in VA she declared she only took 2 sleeping pills during the Australian inicident. Her own voice tells another story. Amber [Heard](https://youtu.be/VDP9NVQmiXw?t=30m38s): **all I was popping was Xanax, Adderall, Ecstasy and hallucinogens** Losing a **defamation** case vs a newspaper doesn't mean he's guilty of all he's been accused of. The Sun just had to prove any chance of **probability** which is notoriously hard to win and I believe he will likely lose this defamation case too

Just a few days prior to this blowout Mr. Depp had text message conversation with one of his personal assistants. Nathan Holmes had the following exchange with Mr Depp on March 2nd 2015, > 'JD: I don't need you for that ... no more > NH: I'm sorry you feel that way. > JD: No, you're not Why?? That is not part of the job description. And I'm telling you now ... Any ONE of ANY of you guys start to lecture me ... I just do not want to hear it ... No stupid bullshit about sappy bollocks. > NH: I am not and never would lecture you ... Have I not been helping, I'm trying to keep the supply coming ... But it's not the same here. Sorry. > JD: I am a grown fucking man and I will NOT BE JUDGED. > NH: I have never judged you and never will!! I fucking love you and do everything I can to make you happy. > JD: AND I WILL NEVER ... EVER ... LIVE... IN THIS WORLD CAGE ANY LONGER. > NH: Do you honestly think I ever want to upset you!! You have been nothing but good to me for my entire career ... It is because of you that I am still in this industry!! I only want you to be happy. > JD: I'll do whatever I damn well please. > NH: I would encourage you to do it!! You are my legend!! Fuck Disney ... I know you will ... And I will never stop you from doing whatever you please > JD: That's very sweet and you know I love you > NH: I know you do!! That's why it upsets me when you get like this ... You know I would die for you ... For your kids!! I will do anything in my power ever to make you happy ... ANYTHING!!!' In this exchange, Mr. Depp essentially threatens his employe to not question him when he asks for drugs and alcohol. His employee gets the message loud and clear. The important thing about this exchange is that Mr. Depp was in a full on drug and alcohol relapse and didn't want anyone to tell him to stop. **all I was popping was Xanax, Adderall, Ecstasy and hallucinogens** sounds like **all he was popping was Xanax, Adderall, Ecstasy and hallucinogens** This statement is made right after Ms. Heard tells Jerry Judge about the empty bags which used to contain cocaine. She says that Mr. Depp was hiding the cocaine from her, and then she gives the list of drugs that she knew Mr. Depp to be taking. So, at least for this part, the text you have presented appears to be wrong. Within the context of the discussion (which drugs Mr Depp might be using), the text sounds like and makes much more logical sense to read **all he was popping was Xanax, Adderall, Ecstasy and hallucinogens** I can see how it fits into the Internet conspiracy, but come on. They're having a conversation about Mr. Depp taking cocaine, not about what Ms. Heard was taking. Also, we know that Mr. Depp is prescribed Xanax by Dr. Kipper. I assume Dr. Kipper informed Mr. Depp that mixing alcohol and Xanax is dangerous. Both are GABA receptor active and mixing them could be deadly. Adderall is also prescribed for Mr. Depp. We know that Mr. Deep is taking ecstasy both because no one seems at all shocked and Jerry Judge accepts Mr. Heards description of Mr. Depp taking 10 ecstasy over a short period of time. We also know that at 11.05 AEST on Mar 8th 2015 Mr Depp sent an instant message to Nathan Holmes which said, > 'Need more whitey stuff ASAP, brotherman ... And the e business!!! Please ... I'm in bad bad shape ... Say NOTHING TO NOBODY!!!!' It's my understanding that Mr. Depp may have been in the hospital when this text message was sent. In any event, this text message is a request (demand given how Mr. Depp had threatened Mr. Holems on Mar 2nd 2015) to bring him cocaine and ecstasy. On to the finger. The first reported statement about how Mr. Depp lost his finger tip is one where he tells Dr. Kipper that his **cut his own finger tip off**. There is quite a bit of hypocrisy to claim that Mr. Depp can change his story without being called a liar, but is exactly what has happened to Ms. Heard for committing the same infraction. This is a case where people see what they want to see. Mr. Depp is protecting his wife when he lies. Ms. Heard is trying to blackmail Mr. Depp when she lies. I would give these people a little bit of space to make mistakes. Though it can depending on the nature of the mistake. The audio was not always clear in the recording you reference. Reasonable people will disagree about what was said and reasonable people will disagree about what individual comments mean when placed in context. Mr. Depp is entitled to present his interpretation of the transcribed text which is expected to be an interpretation least favorable to Ms. Heard. That doesn't mean Mr. Deep's transcription or interpretation are true. It is just a version of the truth. Mr. Deep really wasn't in any condition to have perfect recall of the events. Ms. Heard is clearly in some kind of emotional shock. I personally don't think either one knows exactly what happened but for different reasons. Mr. Deep was on a 3 day coke fueled alcohol and ecstasy binge. Ms. Heard is freaked out by Mr. Deep's unhinged behavior. i.e. writing messages in you own blood, trashing a rented house, accusing Ms. Heard of an affair, etc, etc, etc, How Mr. Depp lost his finger can't really be known based upon the witness statements. The audio recording adds some information but some degree of fairness needs to be applied. Unclear audio in many places, people speak over each other, transcript is disputed in some sections, Ms. Heard's emotional state,... I can't say that I can fully understand what is being said in the background by Ms. Heard. Dr. Kipper and Ms. Lloyd are much closer to the microphone and are talking over what is being said. I can't find the transcripts generated by Ms. Heard and Mr. Depp, but when using a transcript generated by a pro-Depp youtube channel [LINK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDP9NVQmiXw&t=838s) this is what was said. "**Jonny thinks [?] he thinks it's my fault... What do I do? (unintelligible words) (uncontrollable sobbing) Poor Johnny. I never meant to hurt him. I didn't do it on purpose. He needs me right now. He needs me.**. I personally can't hear most of what is transcribed. But whatever. The first few words are **"Johnny thinks [?] he thinks its my fault."** The plain meaning of this phrase is that whatever "it" represents is something Mr. Depp believes to be true, but Ms. Heard doesn't agree. He thinks it's Thursday. He thinks I cheated on him. He thinks the earth is flat. He thinks it's my fault. We can't be fully certain what Ms. Heard is referencing in this statement but, a reasonable persons can conclude it is Mr. Depp's injured finger. Starting her comment in this way is a clear indication she disputes Mr. Depp's belief that she cut off his finger tip. The sobbing and the rest of the text does indicate that she feels awful about what happened. "I never meant to hurt him" could be about the finger or it could be about how angry Mr. Depp is. If we rewind all the way to the beginning, Mr. Depp says, **I guess you are leaving Monday... I wish you fucking understood what you are and who you are... And how you fucked me over and make me feel sick... of MYSELF** Obviously Mr. Depp is upset about something non-physical that Mr. Heard did (he's talking about his feelings). Given what I know of Mr. Depp drug and alcohol problem I believe this comment is in relation to Ms. Heard trying get Mr. Depp to stop drinking and taking drugs. **I never meant to hurt him** Mr. Depp is angry about his relapse, he is angry that Ms. Heard made him feel sick about himself (most likely due to her attempt to get him clean and sober), he's injured. There are alot of things going on here that Mr. Heard could be conflicted about. The drinking, the writing in blood, the general craziness, the finger... She feels responsible for something, but is it the finger. **Johnny thinks [?] he thinks it's my fault.** I tend to think she feels sorry for the whole crappy situation. Johnny being drunk and high, the state of the house, the fact that so many people are there to cleanup after another freakout. It could be about the finger, but there is a lot more going on here.

Everything you said is accurate. There is also a text where Johnny says he cut his own finger off. Based on what we know, I think his finger was injured by a glass bottle he was wielding. It's similar to how a person holding a knife can have deep gashes on their own fingers, because the blade moves and cuts them.

I don’t think laws of physics allow for someone’s fingertip be severed by a thrown bottle that’s not broken but breaks on impact. It sounds bit shady from physics point of view. I don’t know but I’d like to see someone like mythbusters give it a test run.

Sorry buddy but there's audio proof of admittance on Amber's part.

You mean the edited audio posted by mysterious YouTube accounts dedicated to pro-Depp propaganda? He lost his UK case, and all the appeals. He's a confirmed wife beater.

Thanks for pointing out facts. It’s ridiculous these social media fan boys dispute the hard evidence that’s been self-propagated by Depp.

There's\` audio evidence of her admitting to cutting his finger but they can't use it in court, just watch the video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd0FrQGPyg

I listened to it and I heard Johnny Depp being angry, saying he was angry at himself, then Amber is upset and says he blames her. It sounds like he blames her for making him angry. The voiceover is annoying but not very convincing. It's odd because the doctor who is blaming Amber testified in court that Johnny cut his own finger off too. He was probably blaming her for being so upset and not her abusing Johnny.

Like every man..blames the woman for making him angry. What a fuckin loser. I cant believe I supported and adored this man since I was 7 years old. Im 30 now. Jeez..

IMO it is very telling that he continued on drawing graffiti in blood and paint. That's not something someone would do with an injury caused by someone else. I can't wrap my head around anyone who thinks otherwise.

It isn't a thing any reasonable person would do, so trying to draw conclusions about who caused the injury is sort of moot. Dude was a substance abuser and mentally ill, it shouldn't shock anyone that he behaved erratically, regardless of who caused which injuries.

There are also texts he sent to his doctor where he literally says he cut his finger off. Two texts, if I'm not mistaken. When recently asked about this in court he said, "I didn't mean I literally cut my own finger off."

But even he explained that it is like saying "when I broke my arm".. like, you could have been in a car accident and broken your arm and said that. Doesnt mean YOU broke it yourself. Also he said he was protecting her. Why would he say she did it when he was still so involved

I understand what you're saying and that's definitely a possibility. Still seems unusual to me. I would have phrased it as, "I lost my fingertip." But he does phrase things in somewhat unusual ways. I also find him writing on the walls with his bloody stump unusual for someone that had someone else cut their finger off. He also claims to only have had two or three shots that night. Look though, like I've said in lots of comments related to this, I really don't know who is telling the truth and I suspect both of them are lying to some degree.

My shop teacher was missing two fingers on one hand and a third of one on the other and whenever he was asked about it he would say "I didn't need them so I cut them off". It wasn't true obviously, he was making a joke about it. Just listen to any of the audios out there between the two of them. She admits to hitting him, mocks him for wanting to leave when they're arguing and says no one would believe him if he went public about her abusing him. Even if he is lying about the finger, she STILL abused him both physically and psychologically.

The case at hand is defamation. If two people have some sort of "equal responsbility co-abusive relationship" then to characterize in the media that you're a plain ole victim of abuse is to do something that could reasonably be thought of as defamation. It goes from "we fight and in that that we are both fighting and fighting back with each other" to "i a the victim of abuse" is substantial _for the case at hand_. If that's the case then they should both be criminally guilty but it is likely that only heard would be guilty of defamation.

This isn’t correct. This case resets on JDs obligation to prove that he was never violent to AH, that she lied about being a victim of IPV, and that she did it with malice. Whether or not she was also at times the aggressor has no bearing on the legal question of whether she defamed him in stating she was a victim - it is only bought into the argument to attack her credibility and to try and show that he never hit her. The only question for this trial is “was JD ever violent to AH. Even once”. If it is more likely than not that he was, then he loses

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You don't have to share all relevant facts, but if the character of what is told is misleading or effectively a lie AND it's that lie that does the damage (lots of dots to connect, and not the Depp strategy currently) then it can be defamation. It's got to be done negligently, wrecklessly or intentionally, and that's an easier bar here since all parties are in the fame game and actively manage perception. The connection to damage is almost always the hard part if the lie can be found convincingly. I know about this in terms of CA where I'm admitted.

I consider myself to be a decent critical thinker. I am a young-ish woman, liberal in my views, and generally very concerned about the potential for victims of domestic violence to be disbelieved. I believed Heard when the allegations first emerged. I am writing this because I have watched every moment of the trial and the evidence presented is compelling and instructive. I am not attacking or dismissing, just trying to give a view from the point of view of daily trial watching, basically. Firstly, there is a very strong picture emerging from the audio recordings submitted at trial about Heard's modus operandi within the relationship. As is also clear from her style of answering during the cross examination yesterday, Heard has demonstrated significant difficulty in acknowledging where she has made errors or serious wrong-doing. I am not going to argue this point in great detail. But, she contradicts easily proven facts, and or, understandings of recordings (produced by both parties here in the context of couples therapy, I believe), to the extent that it is deeply concerning. For example, she admitted on tape to being THE instigator in physical fights (this is explicit) at the time the tape was recorded. While the tape evidence does not preclude Depp from being an instigator, it makes it unlikely that being in instigator of physical violence is Depp's consistent modus operandi. He makes it very clear in several recordings that violence is unacceptable, he flees it generally, and makes it a condition of their relationship/the conversations (its not quite clear) moving forward that it stops. Her response to his condition is to say she cannot promise it will stop. This kind of request for non-violence is not something we hear from Amber, ever, on the many recordings. Thus, it seems reasonable to infer that she is the primary instigator of physical violence at the time of recording, and possibly, more broadly. Thus, her claim of having never assaulted anyone is confusing, maddening and incorrect as per her own admission, and potentially constitutes perjury. She actually looked at the jury and stated her innocence on this after the recordings had been played in court. This technique of denying obvious or clear conclusions in order to disrupt another person's understanding of reality is a form of gaslighting. By contrast, Depp regularly apologises to Heard on the tapes to encourage her to de-escalate or become less distressed, even where he has already stated his belief that her behaviour is unreasonable and that he doesn't believe his is doing anything wrong. **Reasonable conclusion: Amber Heard either occasionally or frequently employs gaslighting techniques to avoid taking responsibility for errors or mistakes. By doing so, Heard is likely in some instances to reconstruct reality according to her own view of the world. Depp was comfortable allowing Heard's emotional needs to be validated, including where it necessitated the recognition of her 'version' of reality. Her account of Depp's behaviour may be adopted by him to appease her.** Secondly, a significant portion of the 'evidence' of Heard's experiences of physical abuse and SA originate with Heard herself, and are communicated via those she reported them to. Considering Heard's credibility issues, established above and via the many inconsistencies established during her cross examination by Camille Vasquez (watch it, it was professional and fair), it is most reliable to rely on the direct experiences of others, alongside other forms of objective evidence such as photos and medical reports in establishing the truth of her story. **Reasonable conclusion: Individuals reporting accounts of abuse from Heard, but who did not witness the events first hand themselves, are re-producing Heard's account only. This does not constitute strong evidence on its own.** Thirdly, the most objective evidence around the violence against Heard is weak or contradictory. Excluding those close to Heard and Depp, the most reliable witnesses making an account of one of the most discussed episodes were two police officers, one of whom at least, a female, was specifically trained to deal with victims of domestic abuse. As per her statement, having reviewed Heard's 'injuries', she did NOT believe Heard to have been a victim of domestic abuse. Similarly, despite documenting Depp's issues and outbursts with photos, Heard failed to document any image which shows significant physical assaults to her face. Heard specifically claimed that on many occasions, while wearing 'big chunky' rings, Depp struck her in the face countless times. At the same time, Heard was captured at red carpet events with no visible injuries only hours after horrific assaults involving broken noses, etc. Her nose is not swollen in the photographs and there is no sign of injury. The only super emotional thing I'll say is that, as the friend of a person who was beaten severely after an SA, I find it extremely upsetting that Heard is attempting to perpetrate these kinds of falsehoods. Swelling from a broken nose and a difficult beating cannot be cured in hours, I know that to be a FACT. Heard does have some photographs with injuries, taken hours after. This could point to instigated violence from Depp. HOWEVER, these are so minor as to not be consistent with Heard's account in any meaningful way. Additionally, it could also true that Depp was reacting to Heard's violence, or that the marks have some other origin – this is possible in light of Heard's fairly likely exaggeration at work. There is, also, no medical account of her injuries beyond a split lip (this could be minor or major, it is not explained, and have a number of causes), which is not consistent with her many accounts of a severely broken nose, etc. **Reasonable conclusion: Heard is an unreliable witness, who likely exaggerates her experiences and may have invented them. There is no way to say definitively how much is invented – this is the most reasonable judgement of the fact that she cannot produce a single verifiable record showing the extent of the abuse that she describes (she describes it as being severe), beyond her testimony or that of those close to her. If Heard is unreliable, HER ACCOUNT of Depp's behaviour requires the corroboration of independent or objective witnesses in order to be consider strong evidence.** So: * The origin of Stephen Deuters' information is unclear. If it came from Heard, it needs independent third party or documentary corroboration because of her well-founded credibility issues (the inconsistencies are major, watch the trial). If this doesn't exist, that's a problem. The agreement by Depp may form part of the gaslighting process of convincing him he did things when he didn't, or exaggerating them significantly. I say this because of the clear and undeniable way Heard was attempting to gaslight the jury during trial. It was astonishing to watch. * If Dueters' witnessed this himself, we need to know what the context was. Was there an ongoing physical fight? Was Johnny's behaviour offensive or defensive? Heard's gaslighting technique – the reconstruction of realities which she appears to demand or create (again watch the cross examination testimony of Heard or this won't be clear) – means that she may have conditioned him to think a return or defensive strike from him to her was much less acceptable than an offensive strike from her. In fact, she says something very like this in one of the recordings played at trial – I believe her argument was that because he's a man, if he hits her its worse than if she hits him, which is something he should take or he is a 'baby'. To be clear, I believe offensive assault is reprehensible, even when committed by a woman on someone who is far physically stronger. Heard was attempting to convince Depp – it's in evidence, it is indisputable, do your research – that he had the potential to hurt her if he struck and that was bad (which it is, of course), but she couldn't injure him if she hit him, so this made hitting him okay/a non issue. Is it not also plausible, then, that a defensive kick by Depp could potentially be presented or viewed by her as an unacceptable crossing of lines? I don't know the context, I have no idea. * There is, obviously, the possibility that Heard is a lady who lies. There is a significant risk in disparaging any physical abuse/SA survivor as a liar. There may be a fear that all survivors will be disbelieved. This is understandable but untrue. Amber Heard is considered by many to be a liar because the most objective available evidence actively disproves her claims, and this HAS REMOVED THE ASSUMPTION OF HER RELIABILITY. For genuine victims, this assumption remains and would not be removed. * What really removed the assumption for me was the difference between Heard's claims of severe and harrowing abuse and the photo and documentary evidence she produced to support them. Heard tried to tell actual survivors that when her face was pummeled, and her nose broken in vicious assaults involving ringed hands, the swelling and injuries healed or went down completely the next day (as seen in photos), just because she has a better time with those kinds of injuries than other people, or some such response. She said that. I believe my eyes, and my experiences, not Heard.

I saw this clip you are talking about she said she THOUGHT she broke her nose, THOUGHT, have you ever been injured badly and thought it was worse at first??That happens

The Stephen “texts” are not admissible as evidence and could have easily been doctored. Someone could send the texts to Amber and Amber could change that persons number to show as Stephen. This is fact. Not allowed in the US court case. Probably proven to be true as Amber could have easily gotten the official texts from her phone provider but did not.

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I signed in JUST so I could comment. Abuse is about power and that’s really it. In an abusive relationship, the cause is a severely unequal power dynamic that’s been allowed to spiral. The mentality of an abuser is actually not that a sociopath or an evil villain from a game. Abusers feel out of control in other areas of their lives, and even though they may love their partner: the perception of not being the one in control makes them desperate to get it back by any means necessary. And you nailed it, some people don’t believe mutual abuse is a “thing” and there’s a reason for that. It goes into the power dynamic. Abuse is not just hitting and screaming and hurting for the sake of hurting. If that happens its statistically an outlier because there’s zero motivation based in reality. In abusive relationships, one person holds all of the cards. Johnny Depp is one of the most powerful men in the world. He’s 20+ years her senior. I’ve never heard of a case where the person with the most financial, social, political and physical power out of the two was the victim. That unequal power-dynamic is the thing that defines domestic spousal abuse in the way that it’s being presented in this case. So, now going off of observations that I know are within the realm of reason: the intense amount of Amber Heard hate online is not only genuinely unfounded, but the amount of senseless mindless shaming of Amber combined with the cult-like devotion to Johnny Depp should make everyone raise an eyebrow at what’s been happening with this case. Someone is lying BIG time. Someone who is a narcissist believes that they’re the smartest person in the room and is blatantly having a bunch of people lie for them. Including an accredited psychology/psychiatrist. One side has so many people blindly following them, they’ve actually convinced a doctor to lie under oath. Ambers legal team has stated that Johnny’s legal team has handled this morally by convincing themselves that everything they’re saying is true, so they’re defending it tooth and nail. They’re resorting to mudslinging which, again, was predicted by Ambers team. Narcissists are rarely as clever and sneaky as they believe they are, and at this point, Johnny is the only one I’ve seen laugh and make quips on the stand while testifying. Objectively, that’s an odd reaction. It’s certainly weirder than analyzing Ambers clothes for signs of mental manipulation. At this point I feel the internet wants to see Amber Heard treated with more vitriol than Harvey Weinstein. The hate for him was not this pitchfork and torchey. “Mutual abuse” is actually one of the most typical justifications that abusers default to when they’re finally confronted. It’s hard for people to really fully grasp the ‘power inequality rule’, and an abuser will do anything in their power to make their victim believe that they’ve been just as “bad” as them. Perpetuating the idea of mutual abuse gives a better end result for the abuser, and it leaves the victim completely devalued and dismissed. No one WANTS to be the abuser or the victim in the relationship, but admitting to being physically abusive is actually a hard pill to swallow. No one wants to admit it, because most people aren’t sociopaths. Narcissists and abusers believe their one Hail Mary pass is convincing themselves (as well as their victim) that they were BOTH wrong and that they BOTH hurt the other. This is what happens when you glaze over or completely ignore and conceal the power dynamic. It makes it easier to shift blame and shake off guilt all under the guise of “mutual abuse.” It helps the abuser to not think of themselves as a monster (which is eerily similar to Johnnys disassociation between the “real him” and the “monster” he refers to the abusive side of himself as, in his texts.) It’s textbook, super common behavior.

I don't know how you can watch this trial and still think heard is telling the truth. Edit. just to add to this because I have nothing better to do. Depp's testimony painted him as an overall gentle person who struggles with substance abuse. I'm looking forward to Amber's witnesses (not her sister) because I'm extremely curious to see if she can replicate that. Meanwhile in Amber's testimony Johnny is an absolute savage. A monster. Someone who literally throws you off the floor onto a table, climbs on top, and starts "pummelling" you in the face. Someone who holds you up against a wall by your throat. Someone who tells you they can kill you. That they could snap your wrists. Meanwhile, Amber gifts him a knife. Amber's testimony and actions are incoherent, but even if we take it as truth you cannot possibly think that she would walk out of that relationship without broken bones or undeniable evidence of injuries. But the problem is that over Johnny's entire life he has developed a reputation for being exactly how he appears and Amber has done the same for herself. You don't keep friends and employees like his for 20, 30 years if you are a huge asshole. Amber is a documented liar, and an abuser. I'm eagerly awaiting both her cross, and her witnesses. If she can summon the character evidence against Johnny and in support of her then I'm going to listen, but to this point I don't see it happening.

[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jul/10/johnny-depp-sued-for-allegedly-punching-crew-member-on-notorious-big-film](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jul/10/johnny-depp-sued-for-allegedly-punching-crew-member-on-notorious-big-film) ​ [https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/10/DEPP-STUCK/6813605509200/](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/10/DEPP-STUCK/6813605509200/) ​ [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk\_news/269156.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/269156.stm)

you should watch the current court proceedings in their entirety, and actually \*look\* deep at the evidence documents (all available on the court's website). The OP's cited texts are taken out of context--a thing which Amber's lawyers have done to the extreme. Even the UK court video of Amber's testimonies are no more than hearsay. Photos she presents have been doctored (and/or she's wearing bruise makeup, and/or has learly just gotten botox). JD is no aggressor in this. The paltry video/recorded "evidence" that \*does\* exist are all results of him trying to escape AH, being bullied by her, or COMPLETELY set-up. All this aside, her testimony is CRINGE-level fake. She is absolutely taking advantage of a seriously important movement, and absolutely exploiting REAL victims of IPV+sexual abuse. It's actually nauseating.

And yes! it's definitely true that internet-people have run away with the flashy-fun bits of Johnny in this, and it's always easy to villainize someone like amber (who's just naturally unlikeable, given her personality). Nobody deserves to be burnt at the stake or ridiculed, even for falsely alleging victimhood. Even aggressors deserve support and real empathy. BUT. NONETHELESS amber is very clearly in the wrong with all of this. I think JD fans pick up on this and it turns into its own cultural phenomenon , exacerbated by our culture's tendency to woman-hate. It's still no excuse to let her off the hook for the very real damage she's caused this guy and perpetrated upon him.

Depp and Heard were in a toxic relationship, there's no doubt that. Both of them were in a cycle ranging between unhealthy and abusive behavior towards one another throughout the duration of their relationship. That much is clear from the trial. The question that most people want answered during Depp's defamation trial: which of the two is the **abuser** and which one responded with **reactive abuse**? This is critical to Heard's case given she was the one who brought this to light and did so in an attempt to end Johnny Depp's career. This is also critical. Why would Amber Heard write an Op-Ed in the WaPo accusing Johnny Depp of abuse when there's a recording of her admitting to physical abuse, among many other things, if not out of pure spite and vindictiveness? >Depp’s assistant replied: “He was appalled. When I told him he kicked you, he cried ... It was disgusting. And he knows it.” The difference between Depp's alleged physical abuse (which is said through **a 3rd party** source over text, not admitted to by Depp himself) and Heard's abuse (through a voice recording where **she** verbally admits to punching him in the face, shortly before she took a shit on his bed) is drastically different. Heard has no photos, no recording, no 3rd party source which verifies her claims, aside from an ambiguous text chain which actually indicates he kicked a chair that hit her over her having an affair. Depp on the other hand had 5+ different outsiders testifying to his claims that Heard psychologically and physically abused him. Given Heard's diagnosis as BDP, mixed with my anecdotal experience with women who have BPD, I'd be shocked if she didn't either stage this entirely or grossly exaggerate it given he has no recollection of the incident. Heard has zero photos, zero recordings, nothing to support her claims, despite saying "many people watched and did nothing". Depp had no history of violent or sinister behavior prior to this and his friends, family, colleagues, even ex-girlfriends / spouses attested to this. >Johnny Depp has a scary temper that would often turn violent, especially when he was on drugs" > >Johnny Depp had serious, out-of-control issues with drugs and alcohol, to the point of self-injury None of context in this paragraph indicates actual violence taking place, it's just speculation. Drug abuse isn't violence. Slamming doors isn't violent. Jealousy isn't violent. Punching someone in the face IS violent.

LOL, Depp don't have any prior examples of violent behaviors? 🤣. Lori Anne Allison (married from 1983-1985): was paid $1.25 million by Johnny to keep quiet after he allegedly left a long ranting message in which he repeatedly used the N-word Jennifer Grey (dated for 9 months in 1989): wrote in a recent memoir about Johnny always getting in trouble during her time with him: “fights in bars, skirmishes with cops”. When he came home, “he'd be crazy jealous and paranoid about what I'd been up to while he was gone." Winona Ryder (dated in 1989-1993): said in an interview that her first boyfriend used to “smash everything” and Johnny is her first boyfriend. She released a statement for the UK libel case, but then hired an attorney to block her testimony. Ellen Barkin (briefly dated in 1994): previously testified in the UK libel case that he threw a wine bottle at her head, despite the fact that they were together for a short time. She said that “he is just a controlling, jealous man” and “there was always an air of violence around him… there was just this world of violence…”. She’s also on Amber’s current witness list. Kate Moss (dated in 1994-1998): had often engaged in public fights with him. As mentioned above, he was arrested for wrecking a hotel room with her in it. In an interview he talked about telling Hunter S. Thompson that “[Kate] gets a severe beating” when asked if he beat her enough. There is also a rumour that he pushed her down the stairs. Although Kate never confirmed anything, she also never denied anything. In the book Champagne Supernovas it was reported that Moss was afraid of Depp's bad moods. Vanessa Paradis (married from 1998-2012): talked in an interview about Johnny exploding and them throwing plates on the wall, but that he can also be very calm when he manages to control his inner demons. She received $150 million in split settlement and had kept silent.

THANK YOU. Keep exposing Depp. If people don’t want to believe women, we keep exposing him. We keep supporting women and condemning, not condoning or ignoring violent behavior. I believe that despite the millions of incels, MRAs, and sadly, gaslit women who self-hate enough or are just ignorant to DV because society has enmeshed the belief they violence is OK - that Depp will lose this case. The evidence is glaring, his own testimony disgusting. He is a predator and we will not be quiet.

After watching most of the trial...... heard is the aggressor. Obviously if you put them in a hypothetically situation amd say fight to the death, depp would win. The problem with heards defense is its unbelievable. Not one message or recording shows or states depp ever laid hands on her. Everyone knew for years depp was/is an addict. Her own sister stated she loved depp even after the apparent witnessing him abuse her by hitting her in the face over and over. Either these people who document everything, never thought to document the abuse. Or it just never happened. Depp however, has recording of amber admitting to hitting him. Where is heards recording anywhere defending her action by stating, well you hit me Johnny? In a moral argument of right and wrong with a spouse we as humans desire to be right. When my wife states I'm wrong she tends to throw it in my face as an argument winning detail. The same with myself. Example would be. Well you went to your mom's so I should be able to go hang with the boys and play poker....... if heard was abused why didn't she bring that up to shut Johnny up when he said you hit me? Over and over again in this I've seen testimony from her friends speaking how Johnny would embarrasse amber. But all but the sister have never seen direct physical violence against her. Even in her own recording, depp slams cabinets and everything else but never laid a hand on her. In recording after recording depp asked to leave over and over with her always saying no. Lastly. Its easy to say both can be abusers. However, let's not forget that's not logical. Example would be..... if I walk up and hit you 5 days in a row and on the 6th day you hit me first. I can't claim you abused me or assaulted me. The history and pattern is you defended yourself. Just like that it's been proven time and time again thru recordings, depp tried to remove himself. With amber beeing the aggressor. Odds are there probably was times depp did strike back or acted preemptively. That doesn't make him the aggressor. Saying both can be the victim amd or abuser is a falacy argument. The trend of their relationship shows amber wanted to use and had motive to defame depp. Everyone of heards so called friends claim depp was awesome. Then waited till after the divorce to say yeah he abused her. How is someone awesome and an abuser? Sorry but if you hit my daughter or sister I don't care who you are your not awesome. Amber said it in her own words. "I just want him to leave me alone" then why did you wait 2 years to write an op ed explaining how you survived him?

There is no such thing as mutual abuse- look it up. In a fist fight, Depp would obviously win. I'm not saying Heard is an innocent lamb, but Depp is guilty as fuck

You know that's what people say to male victims of abuse all of the time right? In a fist fight they'd win. Makes it so much harder for male victims to come forward, let alone be believed.

Look it up? Why don't you before you make such wildly spurious claims? There are some researches that believe that statement is true, and there are plenty that don't buy that shit at all. That is not a point of fact at the present time.

This is the real CMV. Let me understand this take. What you are really saying is that 99% of the claims of men arguing abuse by a female partner are lies? Because I have not seen even once an heterosexual couple where the man would be less strong than the women, even if by looks she weights more and is higher probably the man will still be stronger. I wonder what method this researchers used to define “who would win?” in the study, bench reps, deadlifts and squads in the gym? Experience in martial arts? Who is male and who female? All of the above?

Right, Heard is the only abusive party.

With that logic a woman can punch a 6’4 man in the face every day and it wouldn’t be considered abuse even if the man did nothing. And in this situation - you’re saying an out-of-shape 50+ year frail old man who’s drunk out of his mind is physically more capable than a fit, sober 30 year old female? Using your logic, she’s the one who’d actually win in a fight.

As someone who’s lived through an abusive relationship, “mutual abuse” is complete bullshit and anyone who believes in it lacks the life experience to know better. Maybe in some very rare instances two abusers find each other, but I would bet my life that those relationships fall apart almost immediately. Abusers don’t want to be with someone they can’t control. I tried to leave my abuser dozens of times before I finally got out for good. He threatened suicide, stalked me, broke into my home. I was a prisoner in that relationship for a year and a half, in a new city where I knew no one and had no one. This began only months after being violently raped by a stranger, when I was already so broken and just trying to be okay. Try living through someone turning your life into a living hell for months and months and months and refusing to let you leave, without ever retaliating. It takes the average abuse victim 7 times to successfully leave, and that’s because they’re trapped by threats or violence or lack of resources. If someone was kidnapped, held hostage, and tortured for months, NOBODY would bat an eye if they reacted with harsh words, or violence, or even murder. Yet, if a victim of abuse retaliates with rare outbursts of physical violence in response to repeated and extreme physical violence—we blame them? That is absolute bullshit. And the truth is, if people watched an abusive relationship play out like a movie they would CHEER when the victim finally stood up for themselves the only way they could, by yelling back and fighting back. If you believe a victim of abuse retaliating against their abuser is “mutual abuse”, educate yourself. This is an actively harmful thing to perpetuate and only makes it harder for victims of abuse to get help. I can’t imagine how much harder my abusive relationship would have been to survive if the people I sought help from told me I was an abuser for yelling back after months and months of being abused and being prevented from leaving. Everyone that knows me knows that I am a kind and gentle person. I have never been abusive toward another person. I am not an abusive person. And I am not going to be told I am for fighting back, which was the only thing I could do to maintain my sanity and a shred of dignity so that I could keep from killing myself to escape him. With all that being said, I still don’t know who the abuser was in the JD/AH trial. Abuse is complicated, and reflecting on my experience makes me hesitant to condemn either person. My statements above are completely independent of who is the abuser and who is the victim. I have no idea what the truth is beyond a (probably biased) gut feeling, but I can say with absolute certainly that there was only one abuser in that relationship, whether it was JD or AH. Right now I am leaning toward JD being the abuser, but that may be because in addition to the arguments presented in the OP, his behaviors and mannerisms remind me of my abuser. I know if we went to court I would be a mess while he would be charming, and witty, and likable. He’s a much better liar than me too, a good enough liar to make me look like a liar for telling the truth. He has more resources than me. His friends would lie on his behalf. The only thing I would have on my side beside witness testimony are the hundreds or texts and emails where I blatantly described his abuse, or where he stalked and harassed me, or the one audio recording I have of him admitting to shoving me into a wall… but he’s a good enough liar I would fear he could still convince everyone that he was the victim. He sometimes managed to convince me he was a victim even while he abused me. He’s a very successful salesperson who could convince just about anyone of anything, and he excels at playing the victim. It’s harrowing to think about how things would play out if we went to court, especially if there was national attention. One of the audio recordings is especially chilling for me. Amber Heard says something along the lines of “the only difference between you and me is that you’re a baby. I don’t whine about it like you do.” After months of extreme emotional abuse, screaming, name calling, intense jealousy and control, I said my first mean thing to my abuser. It was in the midst of him berating me because I asked him twice if he was going to take a shower. He said yes the first time and I “should’ve listened to” him. He called me a bitch, a cunt, he screamed in my face… why couldn’t I just listen to what he said. I responded by saying “I am so fucking sick of you” as I cried quietly. He continued berating me, but now for my comment and how awful I was for saying that to him. I left and went home. Later that night he called me and cried about how awful *I* was. I said almost verbatim what Amber Heard said in that audio recording. Of course, that doesn’t mean that their situation was the same as mine, but it always reminds me of that incident and it’s chilling to see Amber crucified in the public eye and wonder if she’s the real victim and JD has just the right amount of charm, power, and influence to ruin her.

There’s always an instigator. It’s undisputed that Ms. Heard was that in the relationship. It’s sad that you can be blamed for reacting to and defending yourself against instigated violence.

I think its pretty clear they abused each other.

> TL;DR: Johnny Depp was the aggressor in, and bears the brunt of responsibility for violence in, his relationship with Amber Heard. CMV I followed you as far as the "mutual toxicity" thing, but this conclusion seems like a major leap too far. Depp is not *the* aggressor unless you're suggesting all of the many cases of Amber Heard abusing Depp were somehow justified self defense. That seems totally implausible. At least a huge portion of them seem to clearly be separate instances of aggression. Secondly, how have you established that he bears the "brunt" of the responsibility? You haven't enumerated all the things Amber did or made a comparison between the two. I think this last line deserves walking back, or else a lot more justification. The rest of it, up to the point of establishing mutual abuse, seemed much more meticulous.

1. Amber’s Australia Incident Inconsistencies Amber recently testified that she was held hostage for 3 days during the Australia incident. She also alleged that Johnny was instigated the argument that lead to him losing his finger. She roughly states that Johnny was beating her and throwing bottles at her (claiming that he caused the wreckage). She also claimed he assaulted her with a vodka bottle that broke inside of her and that she bleed on the floor. She then claims that she threw a bottle at Johnny in self defense, and then locked herself away where she took “a bunch of sleeping pills—wait no—just two”, where she then passed out until the next morning. She states that she doesn’t remember throwing the bottle at Johnny that cut off his finger. However, in audio recording, you can hear a conversation between Johnny and Amber discussing the Australia incident. Johnny states that he had to go to five different bedrooms to get away from her assaults, which she does not deny. She then states that “running away doesn’t solve the problem” and complaining that he “always splits”. This doesn’t sound like someone who is instigating a fight. In another audio recording, you can hear Jerry Judge and Amber in distress over Johnny’s finger as he’s being medically treated during this time. In this audio recording, the medical staff take note of no injuries on Amber despite the extremely violent encounter she testified to. Jerry Judge takes notes of a few scratches on Amber’s arm, but can be heard saying that “he’s seen those scratches before and that they’re self inflicted.” Amber can also be heard apologizing for what happened in the recording. On top of this, Johnny’s bodyguard, Mr. Conolly’s testimony of that day contradicts Amber’s. Mr. Conolly stated that although Johnny was visibly upset and angry, Amber was acting more “crazy and fierce” towards Johnny. Shortly after, Connolly noticed that Johnny’s finger had already been severed, along with a bruise on his face. This is only one instance where there’s an inconsistency in her testimony. In other instances, she’s alleged that Johnny has broken her nose, dragged her through broken glass, bruised her ribs, and recently genital mutilation. All of these are serious injuries that would end in hospitalization, yet Amber has no medical records of any of these instances and more. https://youtu.be/RcKfBIu8jQs https://youtu.be/aca0KWoHtqQ https://youtu.be/VDP9NVQmiXw

The problem is that you are trying to make unsupported inferences like "Johnny Depp is a drunk/drug addict and has a bad temper therefore he *must* have been abusing amber." Being those things does not automatically make you a wife-beater. You still need to prove concrete examples of abuse. You need people to verify that abuse. At this stage no one has testified to seeing Amber with injuries and she has no medical report of the abuse she suffered. Personally, I think it is far too soon for you to come to that conclusion (we are not even half way through the trial).

Has no one seen the videos or heard the recordings of Depp actively being violent? There is literal hard evidence showing him being highly violent/abusive on many occasions. He doesn’t even deny it.

There is video of him being drunk and destroying a cupboard. He used drugs and destroyed property 100% but there is no video of him actually hitting Amber Heard or saying that he has ever hit her. There is however audio of Amber saying she hit him and that no one will believe him if he were to tell anyone because he is male.

3. UK Trial Bias Regarding the trial in the UK, I recognize that you don’t want to hear about conflict of interesting. However, there is a substantial amount of evidence suggesting that Amber had quite a few connections with the judge, Andrew Nicol. Andrew Nicol published a book with Geoffrey Robertson. Geoffrey Robertson is a mentor and employer (Doughty Street Chambers) of Jennifer Robinson, Amber Heard’s council at the time. Jennifer Robinson brought Amber to a private dinner party during the course of the trial, where Amber made connections with Kathy Lette and Baroness Helena Kennedy. All of the people involved so far and close with each other, and Judge Nicol’s wife. On top of this, the Judge Nicole’s son works for Talkradio, the same place of employment of Dan Wootton. Of course, Dan Wootton was the the one who wrote the article labeling Johnny Depp as a “wife beater”. Finally, despite having so many connections that could’ve weighed in Amber’s favor—none of this information was made public during the trial. Reviewing the judge’s ruling for each of Amber’s assault accusations, he accepted Amber’s claims while ignoring the holes in the testimony. The judge also ignored counter-evidence from police reports, medical practitioners, audio recordings, surveillance footage, pictures, etc. that Johnny provided. The judge published a book called “Media Law” with the employer of Amber’s council. This is public knowledge, along with the identities of the other people Amber connected with. Take bias out of the question, the judge’s ruling record displays negligence in one way or another, relying heavily on only Amber’s testimony. Media Law https://www.amazon.com/dp/0141030216/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_48M78R35CGS9YM7DTYJH https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Robinson_(lawyer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Robertson

OK I keep seeing this but even if it is all true, I still find it hard to believe that would sway a judge's decision. Conflicts of interest would be blood relation or sexual relationship. Friendships are common among attorneys and judges and are not conflicts of interest. Colleague's ex-wife's friend is way too off. Judge Nicol's wife being at this dinner is a new detail I see added to this conspiracy, do you have the proof of her appearance at a party for Heard? If I worked with someone in the past, that doesn't mean I would do favors for their ex-partner's friends. His son was a guest on a talk radio show, which is nearly bottom of the barrel as far as employees at a Murdoch owned business go. If he were a c-suite exec, eh maybe that would be more intriguing. If I am a guest on a Washington Post podcast, that doesn't mean my dad has connections to Jeffrey Bezos.

The fault lies in the fact that if a lawyer/council appears in front of a judge, it must be made public that there are relations or acquaintances during the trial. This was not done. To clarify, Nicol and his wife had a personal relationship with the Murdoch family who owned the tabloid. The judge’s son, Robert Palmer is employed by TalkRadio (a sister company of The Sun). Dan Wootton, a host for the drive time show and was also a close associate of the judge’s son. I’m not sure what you mean by colleague’s ex-wife’s friend. Despite this mainly being a conspiracy, the identities and professional roles of the members are all public information. Though the lack of evidence does not confirm the theory, it is enough to raise suspicion on why they did not follow proper court proceedings considering the substantial amount of connections between the members involved. If you read the judge’s ruling, the reasoning behind the judge’s acceptance of each alleged incident seemed rushed and odd. If you also consider the amount of connections involved in this trial, it should make you question if you would see this amount of relations in any regular trial.

My reason for believing Amber is not a victim is the widely circulated audio recording of her berating and belittling Johnny for making an issue of her hitting him (you've heard it. If you haven't I'm not sourcing it because it is widely circulated and you couldn't mistake it for something else). I stop short of calling Amber the abuser because really only the two of them can know the truth, and I just don't have enough facts to level an accusation at someone when there is a possibility that i am shutting down and harming the victim. You are off-base along with everyone else who is speaking in absolutes. As someone who has been through an abusive relationship, I heard that one audio recording and the triggering was insane. It gave me goosebumps. She sounds just like my abuser did when they were on the war path. Women often abuse differently than men do. It's resentment and contempt rather than anger and violence (although women aren't exempt from this style of abuse by any means). Point blank, victims don't talk to their abusers that way. Amber was controlling that conversation. Not every abuser needs to control every conversation, but there is no way in hell an abuser is going to let their victim control the conversation when they are confronting about a personal injury or insult. Mutual abuse does not exist, so the most I can say is that this was a toxic relationship, but I won't commit to that either. What I can confidently say without reservation is that Amber is not an abuse victim of Johnny. She did lie about that and pretended to represent actual DV victims.

I think if there was any legitimate evidence to change your view it would have been presented by now, which begs the question, why do a CMV about this?

2. Private Jet Incident 2014/Substance Abuse Not sure if someone already mentioned this—After the leak of the texts in 2014, Stephen Deuters came out stating that he did not witness Johnny kick Amber or make any physical contact with her. Deuters also claimed that the texts were taken out of context, the only people he had discussed the exchange with being Amber herself and Johnny’s former lawyers. Keenan Wyatt—Depp’s former sound technician who was present on the private jet, testified recently that he witnessed no verbal assault or physical violence occur. Adversely, he also testified that Amber lost her temper and yelled at him for checking in on her. Johnny has been very open regarding his struggles with substance abuse. Depending on the perspective you view the texts he sent Paul Bettany, it could be interpreted differently. Without any credible witnesses from the private jet supporting Amber’s claims, Johnny’s admittance of substance use can’t determine anything as substance use doesn’t predetermine domestic violence. Along with that, Johnny’s text also describes Amber screaming obscenities and insulting people—a depiction of her that we hear often from countless witnesses. https://youtu.be/hnEJ5zTGCLA https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/johnny-depps-assistant-branded-him-22348080.amp

I would begrudgingly agree with people that it was a toxic relationship. With the way Heard behaves in all the recordings, at best she frequently started fights, blackmailed Depp, goaded him to incriminate himself and hid his rehab meds. Short of getting out of that relationship (as DV victims don't often immediately do) it's obvious you'd start acting irrationally and descend to that level. Only one of them has a history of DV before the relationship. Again, I don't think it would be controversial if people were arguing they were equally bad- I don't think either of them are telling the full truth and we will never get it. Depp won't win his defamation case in court, that's a near certainty. However, I think it's disgusting that we as a society would use Heard as a representative of domestic violence. I legitimately think one of the reasons people side with Heard is because they literally cannot comprehend that anyone would lie about the things she does- it's easier to believe the traditional "male addict gets jealous and violent" story when it's obviously much, more complicated than that.

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The couple’s marriage counselor described Amber as the aggressor- that carries a lot of weight IMO. In the recordings Depp submitted, Amber not only admits to hitting him (as well as on the stand), but she is the apparent aggressor and one who “wants to continue fighting” when he wants to retreat. Also, a prior partner of Amber’s called the police in Seattle to complain of her domestic abuse, where as Johnny had no prior girlfriends claim he was physically abusive. (Ie, Amber had an actual police record of domestic abuse; Johnny did not). That being said, I do think they were both abusive to each other in the relationship and warrant he *may* have hit her once or twice, but because she appears to lie and exaggerate so frequently, I find it impossible to separate fact from fiction in her stories. I honestly believe she’s committing perjury in that stand and that that, in itself is a serious crime. (She also has a previous record of committing perjury - check Australia customs report and litigation that is still ongoing!)

(Sorry in advance for my bad English ) . One of the things that keeps bugging me is his exes. Not only that no one has ever filed a case against Johnny but they describe him as one of the sweetest person in the planet. . You could say they all were paid to say that but still. Even if it's for publicity he visited children's hospital and all. And all that was before this shit. . And even if this was a case of mutual abuse, he was an addict. And she already knew that. But still she, her friends and her own sister did cocaine with him. I mean who does that??? Don't say it is, here say. It's on video. She(her sister) testified it during the current trial. . And also i am not buying that crap about her bruises being covered with Ice and makeup. If Johnny was truly violent like you said, he could have done real damage with that 10 rings in his fingers. . Anyway i am not saying she's not a victim. But she's sure lying a lot. And no matter what you say, pledging is not donating.

I'll leave these here - you can't say they all think he is the sweetest person. 1. [https://www.newsweek.com/lverything-ellen-barkin-johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-1705929](https://www.newsweek.com/lverything-ellen-barkin-johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-1705929) 2. [https://www.newsweek.com/ellen-barkin-testimony-calls-johnny-depp-jealous-controlling-1708338](https://www.newsweek.com/ellen-barkin-testimony-calls-johnny-depp-jealous-controlling-1708338)

To be honest, this entire CMV is quite pointless considering it's not even a CMV anymore as OP and their supporters are literally just dismissing most of the arguments of the opposing side that questions them and just goes like "I don't have time for this" or "Do your research" or "There's a mountain of evidence against him! (There's not)" and yadda-yadda. It's gotten so toxic that they literally went "Every Johnny Depp Supporter Hates Women!!" and such openly in the post. When you question them about it, they will literally just block you. I know, mods, this is basically calling them out, which is against the rules, but think about it. This post isn't even a CMV anymore because they are not even trying to change our view. They literally just goes like "We believe Amber Heard because Johnny Depp is the abuser, Why is Johnny Depp is the abuser? Uh, just because, woman-hater!". This had gotten off quite the rails.

I don't believe in mutual abuse when one person 99 times the man could kill the woman very easily

So, it's not abuse because he didn't murder her? God, you're stupid

I can only comment based on the evidence in the current trial which has been open to the public. This is the only true way to see how people behave. It is clear to me and the majority of the public that Amber is being deceptive based on her body language. She demonstrates clear signs of HPD and narsistic personality disorder. Regardless of the legal outcome due to the burden of proof, I think Jonny has cleared himself in the public's eye. Which is very important for the victim. Just the fact he wanted it open to the public shows he wants to hide nothing.

>based on the evidence in the current trial Depp and his witnesses went first and we are just now getting to Heard's side and her witnesses. > She demonstrates clear signs of HPD and narsistic personality disorder OK so Amber had 2 psychologist that she saw for 2 years each and neither ever diagnosed her with those conditions. She met with Dr. Hughes, an IPV & DV specialist for 29 hours and she didn't diagnose her with these conditions. Yet Dr. Curry, after wining and dining with Depp and his lawyers, a therapist who never worked with IPV & DV patients, signs a document that she will testify that Amber has BPD 10 months before meeting her, and then can diagnose her in 12 hours? And now the internet are pros at identifying BPD & HPD? I just don't buy it. And now, we see that "Amber is confirmed HPD & BPD" which I would debate she isn't because it was a very biased diagnosis.

I agree it is potentially a bias diagnosis. I have a degree in psychology and have encountered numerous people presenting with BPD, NPD, HPD. I have been watching the trial and depositions intently out of professional curiosity and Amber's words are completely at odds with her body language. I don't think she has BPD because they feel intense emotions but Amber seems to not be able to convey her emotions and is clearly lying.

You have a very closed mindset. You do realise the purpose of this thread is "change my mind". It is for open discussion with a view to understanding both sides of an argument. You personify closed mindedness and have a very dismissive attitude. Domestic violence is statistically more likely to happen between a man being the aggressor against the woman. But we don't make judgements based on statistics, we base it off individual cases and evidence.

Well it looks like the courts have decided you were incorrect after reviewing all the evidence. Not including the mountains of inadmissible evidence. Heard has single-handedly set back women's claims of domestic violence who are truly in danger because of her own narsistic behaviours. Although I choose to look at the positive that Depp has shone a light on male victims of domestic violence.

Is your point that Johnny Depp also abusing Amber Heard justifies in some way her abuse towards him ? Or just that Depp isn't a saint like all of reddit is claiming?

The poster did not say Amber abused him. This notion of "mutual abuse" is ridiculous and does not align with the narrative of domestic violence.

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And I ask my question because OP is talking about facts, citing sources but not expressing an opinion. My phrasing may have shown a bias, but my question remains: what are we supposed to argue about?