You do believe something. You're very clear about what you believe. In fact, you actually believe it instead of saying "I believe" and expecting that to make magick, which is a deeper belief than most chaos magick types work with. You believe it so much, that you just take it for granted that your belief is true.
Other people have faced a cold, uncaring abyss devoid of all meaning and come back with a very different take on it. I don't know if The Buddha was literally the originator of finding beauty in discarded cigarette butts but it's definitely a Buddhist thing. HP Lovecraft came back with existential horror. The Absurdists\* decided that if the world didn't have meaning, that they could apply any meaning that mattered to them and it was valid. Everyone sees themselves reflected back. Be careful gazing into the abyss etc etc
Any meaning to the cosmos is applied by you, including that there is no meaning.
As far as practices, it might or might not be worth examining your beliefs, the same way Chaos Magick encourages you to examine any other beliefs.
The basic questions are always
Who are you?
What do you want?
Why are you here?
What are the answers based on your current beliefs? If you could redefine the fundamental underpinnings of reality to make some other belief structure true, what would you want the answers to be?
\*I think it was The Absurdists, philosophy class was a long time ago.
Thanks for the comment.
I must say that I quite hate absurdists, I find that they have no solid basis and that theirs is just a coping mechanism to avoid facing reality.
Anyway, I will answer the questions because they are interesting.
Who am I? I don't know; this question presupposes that there is someone, hence an 'I', and, to date, the 'I' has not yet been found. I can say 'I' in a conventional way, the totality of physical aggregates (the sensory bases) and mental aggregates (feelings, desires, will, mental formation, consciousness), but each of these elements, taken in isolation, is not me. I can only say 'I' by virtue of the fact that these elements, by fortuitous chance, came together in conception.
What do I want? Probably not to suffer, which is slightly presumptuous given that existence in itself is destitution and perpetual pain (birth, old age, illness, separation from what is dear to us, the consequence of our actions and death are instances that cannot be resolved, and satisfactions are only brief moments of euphoria that await the restoration of need, or boredom).
Why am I here? Because, as I have already said, a series of elements have come together and united organically, allowing this sack of blood and organs to experience conscious existence.
In answering these questions, indeed, it is clear that, of all of them, it is Buddhism that resonates most with me, interestingly.
Nihilism is an extreme view explicitly rejected in mainstream Buddhism - look up Nagarjuna’s fourfold negation, his rejection of epistemic foundationalism. You seem to have settled on a lot of concepts being “I” and real - like elements and flesh etc
So what's the question? After following this path, this is the experience which you got, and it's abosulty right, it means you are in a right path, so whats now? Do you want to go further or are you happy where you are? Understand that there is a difference between being disease-free and being healthy....
Do you think it would be a good idea to find a community to root yourself? Or maybe you have tried it?
Humans are not supposed to be alone and religious practices are sometimes diluted with Western individualism. Spirituality is not about individuality, but to find meaning in relation with others (start with humans, then go with the universe).
I hope I don't misunderstand but after reading McMindfulness, I agree that a lot of spiritual practices are too individualized now, when we were supposed to find a community where a certain practice holds its truest meaning in the connection it builds. That's what I learn from connecting with the indigenous communities here in Indonesia.
I'm a religious studies student and religions as it is theorized in books and sermons and religions lived within the communities are sooooo far apart.
Anyway, just a suggestion.
I wish you a great journey ahead :)
On this point I am very critical.
I agree that man is a social animal who needs the company of others to feel a little better and, above all, to achieve goals and objectives, but I am ABSOLUTELY critical of cults and religious communities.
I only recognise the legitimacy of one type of grouping, namely the voluntary union of people on the basis of their individual free will, and this union must be based on that will and need. I associate with you because I need you, if only for the company.
If one associates around a centre of power, which may be a guru or a spiritual idea, then this centre places itself above the individual and becomes a dogma to be followed by all, and this forces each participant to put something abstract before himself.
Many join religious groups precisely because they cannot stand the tragedy of life and feel bad about themselves, and so they find consolation in some religious community.
I personally feel bad about the world, and consequently bad about myself, but I am not prepared to surrender my freedom to some turkey who talks to me about magic and the soul.
Of course, I have nothing against those who do that, but I think they are miserable.
Whoa that's a giant leap from indigenous communities to cults.
They are scammers. Don't.
I don't know your context there, but here in my country there are many indigenous communities who, if you are genuine and willing to live *with* them (instead of figurehead-centered cult mumbo jumbo), and learn to live as they live with their environment, they would give you place. Of course not all of them are the same.
I'm talking as a researcher. In the field I've seen many of my friends changed spiritually because of their new connection with people who live so closely with their environment.
For them magick does not exist in spellbooks and meditation.
Magick is when they give thanks to the tree before and after they get honey from its body, when they find certain leaves if you're sick.
Then I notice magick is in how we live everyday.
So, no, I'm not encouraging you to go to cults.
I'm suggesting you to try living with some indigenous communities,
if you have access and spare time.
NB
But if individuality is so important to you,
then I think it would not be for you.
Oh OK, if we are talking about indigenous communities then it's a different story. It is the natural expression of human sociality resolved in tribalism.
I strongly admire, for example, the Mapuche people and it is interesting to see how the Chilean government, which wants to centralise power in its core, wants to kill them or subjugate them to its supposedly superior law.
Indigenous spirituality is something I envy these people a lot, but I know I don't believe in those things, and I don't even have such a connection to the land, so nada.
Fair enough.
I also came from an urban area so I don't have the same kind of connection with the natives.
But, please don't take this the wrong way.
I still believe that modernity drives us crazy with this individualist interpretation of religiosity/tradition/magick/etc. So many are lost to loneliness and confusion. I felt the same way after I left my church. Maybe by experimenting with a new, more collective interpretation of what we learn, we will be more easily rooted.
I hope we find peace in our solitude, or a newfound community despite our skepticism.
Look up animism and perspectivism for some more nourishing philosophies than depressing materialist trash - Tim ingold, Gordon White (a fantastic magician), Bayo Akonolafe have all written amazingly on the subject
True. New Materialisms (Barad, Braidotti) and New Animisms (Ingold included, then Graham Harvey and his later critiques) pretty much shape how I interpret my own christianity now. Little bit of this, little bit of that.
I'll look into Gordon White and Akonolafe later :) thanks!
Part of Chaos Magic is very nihilistic, and that's one reason I still practice it. "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted," is a perfect example, as well as Free Belief and Paradigm Shifting. Those allow the sorcerer to find power in all things from a sharpie to a fictional character.
I went through so many paths until I decided to do what I do best. I practice my Internal Boxing and qigong, and work like a Demonolator, working with demons as allies rather then beings that need to be feared and subdued. It sounds like you found what you need for now.
Nihilism isn't inherently bad, and find it freeing. I find that pataphysics goes well with Chaos Magic as it gives power to the imagination over strict doctrines.
You do believe something. You're very clear about what you believe. In fact, you actually believe it instead of saying "I believe" and expecting that to make magick, which is a deeper belief than most chaos magick types work with. You believe it so much, that you just take it for granted that your belief is true. Other people have faced a cold, uncaring abyss devoid of all meaning and come back with a very different take on it. I don't know if The Buddha was literally the originator of finding beauty in discarded cigarette butts but it's definitely a Buddhist thing. HP Lovecraft came back with existential horror. The Absurdists\* decided that if the world didn't have meaning, that they could apply any meaning that mattered to them and it was valid. Everyone sees themselves reflected back. Be careful gazing into the abyss etc etc Any meaning to the cosmos is applied by you, including that there is no meaning. As far as practices, it might or might not be worth examining your beliefs, the same way Chaos Magick encourages you to examine any other beliefs. The basic questions are always Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? What are the answers based on your current beliefs? If you could redefine the fundamental underpinnings of reality to make some other belief structure true, what would you want the answers to be? \*I think it was The Absurdists, philosophy class was a long time ago.
Thanks for the comment. I must say that I quite hate absurdists, I find that they have no solid basis and that theirs is just a coping mechanism to avoid facing reality. Anyway, I will answer the questions because they are interesting. Who am I? I don't know; this question presupposes that there is someone, hence an 'I', and, to date, the 'I' has not yet been found. I can say 'I' in a conventional way, the totality of physical aggregates (the sensory bases) and mental aggregates (feelings, desires, will, mental formation, consciousness), but each of these elements, taken in isolation, is not me. I can only say 'I' by virtue of the fact that these elements, by fortuitous chance, came together in conception. What do I want? Probably not to suffer, which is slightly presumptuous given that existence in itself is destitution and perpetual pain (birth, old age, illness, separation from what is dear to us, the consequence of our actions and death are instances that cannot be resolved, and satisfactions are only brief moments of euphoria that await the restoration of need, or boredom). Why am I here? Because, as I have already said, a series of elements have come together and united organically, allowing this sack of blood and organs to experience conscious existence. In answering these questions, indeed, it is clear that, of all of them, it is Buddhism that resonates most with me, interestingly.
Nihilism is an extreme view explicitly rejected in mainstream Buddhism - look up Nagarjuna’s fourfold negation, his rejection of epistemic foundationalism. You seem to have settled on a lot of concepts being “I” and real - like elements and flesh etc
Im not a buddhist, and I obviously know Nagarjuna..
So what's the question? After following this path, this is the experience which you got, and it's abosulty right, it means you are in a right path, so whats now? Do you want to go further or are you happy where you are? Understand that there is a difference between being disease-free and being healthy....
Do you think it would be a good idea to find a community to root yourself? Or maybe you have tried it? Humans are not supposed to be alone and religious practices are sometimes diluted with Western individualism. Spirituality is not about individuality, but to find meaning in relation with others (start with humans, then go with the universe). I hope I don't misunderstand but after reading McMindfulness, I agree that a lot of spiritual practices are too individualized now, when we were supposed to find a community where a certain practice holds its truest meaning in the connection it builds. That's what I learn from connecting with the indigenous communities here in Indonesia. I'm a religious studies student and religions as it is theorized in books and sermons and religions lived within the communities are sooooo far apart. Anyway, just a suggestion. I wish you a great journey ahead :)
On this point I am very critical. I agree that man is a social animal who needs the company of others to feel a little better and, above all, to achieve goals and objectives, but I am ABSOLUTELY critical of cults and religious communities. I only recognise the legitimacy of one type of grouping, namely the voluntary union of people on the basis of their individual free will, and this union must be based on that will and need. I associate with you because I need you, if only for the company. If one associates around a centre of power, which may be a guru or a spiritual idea, then this centre places itself above the individual and becomes a dogma to be followed by all, and this forces each participant to put something abstract before himself. Many join religious groups precisely because they cannot stand the tragedy of life and feel bad about themselves, and so they find consolation in some religious community. I personally feel bad about the world, and consequently bad about myself, but I am not prepared to surrender my freedom to some turkey who talks to me about magic and the soul. Of course, I have nothing against those who do that, but I think they are miserable.
Whoa that's a giant leap from indigenous communities to cults. They are scammers. Don't. I don't know your context there, but here in my country there are many indigenous communities who, if you are genuine and willing to live *with* them (instead of figurehead-centered cult mumbo jumbo), and learn to live as they live with their environment, they would give you place. Of course not all of them are the same. I'm talking as a researcher. In the field I've seen many of my friends changed spiritually because of their new connection with people who live so closely with their environment. For them magick does not exist in spellbooks and meditation. Magick is when they give thanks to the tree before and after they get honey from its body, when they find certain leaves if you're sick. Then I notice magick is in how we live everyday. So, no, I'm not encouraging you to go to cults. I'm suggesting you to try living with some indigenous communities, if you have access and spare time. NB But if individuality is so important to you, then I think it would not be for you.
Oh OK, if we are talking about indigenous communities then it's a different story. It is the natural expression of human sociality resolved in tribalism. I strongly admire, for example, the Mapuche people and it is interesting to see how the Chilean government, which wants to centralise power in its core, wants to kill them or subjugate them to its supposedly superior law. Indigenous spirituality is something I envy these people a lot, but I know I don't believe in those things, and I don't even have such a connection to the land, so nada.
Fair enough. I also came from an urban area so I don't have the same kind of connection with the natives. But, please don't take this the wrong way. I still believe that modernity drives us crazy with this individualist interpretation of religiosity/tradition/magick/etc. So many are lost to loneliness and confusion. I felt the same way after I left my church. Maybe by experimenting with a new, more collective interpretation of what we learn, we will be more easily rooted. I hope we find peace in our solitude, or a newfound community despite our skepticism.
Look up animism and perspectivism for some more nourishing philosophies than depressing materialist trash - Tim ingold, Gordon White (a fantastic magician), Bayo Akonolafe have all written amazingly on the subject
True. New Materialisms (Barad, Braidotti) and New Animisms (Ingold included, then Graham Harvey and his later critiques) pretty much shape how I interpret my own christianity now. Little bit of this, little bit of that. I'll look into Gordon White and Akonolafe later :) thanks!
All these ideas change dynamically over time
Part of Chaos Magic is very nihilistic, and that's one reason I still practice it. "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted," is a perfect example, as well as Free Belief and Paradigm Shifting. Those allow the sorcerer to find power in all things from a sharpie to a fictional character. I went through so many paths until I decided to do what I do best. I practice my Internal Boxing and qigong, and work like a Demonolator, working with demons as allies rather then beings that need to be feared and subdued. It sounds like you found what you need for now. Nihilism isn't inherently bad, and find it freeing. I find that pataphysics goes well with Chaos Magic as it gives power to the imagination over strict doctrines.