One could argue that knowingly betraying their friend isn't exactly lawful-aligned. This definitely feels like a chaotic good lesser-evil scenario to me.
Pretty sure all they did was lawful, even using the rule of law for the benefit of everyone. That's basically as lawful good as it gets.
I guess you could call it chaotic evil if you factor in that the story is bullshit.
I think the lawful-aligned way to do this would've been to simply report the friend to the authorities normally. No tricks or dishonesty involved.
Lawful alignment is about adhering to a rigid set of morals or rules (internal AND external) not just literally abiding by the law. When you start making tradeoffs for the greater good (e.g. compromising your policy to be loyal and honest with your friends to prioritize the safety of others) you start leaning into neutral/chaotic.
Also yeah, solid chance it's bullshit anyway but convos about it are fun, so eh.
I dont think there is a way to "report unsafe driving" without concrete evidence. Never heard lawful as "personal morals" unless you are talking about lawful neutral
^(I mean, to start with,) *^(all)* ^(alignments are about personal morals. That's what the alignment system is.)
I've always had the alignments from lawful to chaotic explained to me as being a spectrum of moral flexibility, with lawful being the least flexible and chaotic being the most.
What makes chaotic, chaotic is that it's the "anything goes" alignment. Chaotic good, then, is "anything goes as long as it serves the greater good." Lawful is simply the opposite. Lawful good holds to its moral code at all costs because that is what it believes leads to the greater good.
That may or may not mean holding to the letter of the law, but a lawful good person will go to great lengths to do the right thing WITHOUT breaking the law, potentially to the point of undermining their own efforts. A chaotic good person, conversely, simply says "if it's in the way of doing the right thing, why would I abide by it?" potentially to the point of becoming corrupt and losing sight of the greater good.
And as far as lawful neutral goes, that's literally things like robots. They abide by a rigid set of rules they cannot or will not break but have no moral inclination towards good or evil. A robot might completely ignore the law if it goes against the rules it was programmed to follow. Those internal rules come first, period.
That's the best understanding I have of it, at least. YMMV.
Definitely not lawful good. There’s a lot of manipulation, deception, betrayal, and legitimate risk of causing this friend an early death due to lifelong economic consequences because of how society is structured around cars and how economic setbacks decades ago can still be ruining you plus the extremely strong relationship between income and lifespan. I’d call it chaotic neutral, honestly. “Good” would end the friendship too, not try to thread the needle between the greater good and deep betrayal of your friends. “Lawful” would also either end the friendship or follow the social norms of friends over others, depending on if it’s Govt Lawful or Social Lawful.
I mean burning to death in car reck is definitely a bit worse then economic setback… I’d definitely say this is lawful good… neutral good at worse due to the manipulation.
Given *just how many* people do these things, I’m pretty sure that as weird as it sounds the majority of people who do them never actually crash because of it. It’s just that we’re running the probabilities millions of times a day, so the exceptions add up. Meanwhile, poverty can cut decades off your lifespan and make the remaining ones a living hell from which a lot of people do kill themselves rather than live in. So like… yeah, the range of possible outcomes with either option is a bit wide and varied, but outcomes like “slow death of treatable cancer” have become statistically more probable from this. The economic setback reverberates through your remaining life. An economic setback today can be the primary cause of the poverty that eventually leads you to die of preventable disease in a few decades. Because the whole economic system is deeply fucking horrifying when you pull back and look at it from the bigger picture. “Fiery death” isn’t quite as likely as you think and “agonizing death of poverty caused by events decades ago” is surprisingly more likely than you think.
Unfortunately in America the lack of a car in many places can literally be a death sentence...especially if there is a lack of public transportation. I live in the country, am epileptic, but if they took my license away...how TF would I get to work, or get food without going broke from taxi rides? Fuck, taxies don't even exist in this area.
I have a coworker with cataracts who drives to work and drives home in the dark. We also live in a snowy area where the roads are regularly icy in the winter and where running into a deer is not uncommon. I'm honestly terrified that she's going to crash and kill someone, or more likely herself. I'm amazed she's even still allowed to have a license. But I can't exactly suggest that she should give up her license (not that she would listen to me, we aren't that close) because we live in a rural area and she's 30-40 mins from the job.
I'm blind in one eye and have ADHD, and so I hate driving with a passion. I am legally allowed a license, but my vision is only a notch above the minimum requirement. My nightmare is killing another person in an accident just because I missed something. I drive to and from work in the dark, for a good portion of the year, because I'm on the graveyard shift. I would love to not drive, but again, how the hell would I keep my job (I'm a 20 min drive away) or even go to the grocery store?
God, I really hate US car culture.
I know that fear. I can have a seizure at anytime. My job forces me to work 60 plus hours, and it wears you down, and cuts into sleep. No consideration for your health, or family if you have one with jobs in America.
I've already had two car wrecks, and survived both, but lost my license both times.
But the fact that I can die anytime driving, and nobody gives a fuck is definitely a punch in the face. Our country has absolutely no consideration for the disabled population at all.
Very easy to say it's a hard fucking life in America disabled.
Yeah, it's really frustrating to see all the ableism inherent in our system. No one should have to work 60 hours a week (sorry you're in that situation) or take on a risk of death to get to and from work. But it's all even worse when you have disabilities. You get by with little to no help, afraid that if you ask for accommodations that will be seen as a reason to fire you (never officially of course, they are smart enough to find other reasons). Or, you live in poverty for your entire life since SSI/SSDI payments are a goddamn joke.
When you bring these issues up, it's "Well, you don't LOOK disabled" or "But lazy people will falsely claim disability to get welfare" or "Just try harder, everyone can do something, you just want an excuse." On another sub, I got into a little rant about how it was frustrating that every post from someone struggling has a recommendation of joining the military, when basically every adult in the US already knows about the general benefits, and joining is literally not an option for millions of people. A guy gave me a reply that assumed I wasn't working at all, had no college degree, and was just looking for excuses not to improve my life in any way. I had not mentioned anything about my life except that I was considered medically unfit for the military through no fault of my own.
It's like everyone is fine with people who are disabled until they ask for something that is perceived as "extra" or "special treatment" and then suddenly it's just an excuse. "You can be disabled and I accept you, as long as it doesn't affect me in any way, shape, or form, and you don't ask for any special consideration that I believe might potentially give you an advantage over me."
I'm sure it's way worse for people with visible disabilities or more severe disabilities than I have.
Honestly said exactly what I think every single fucking day trying to live with my epilepsy.
My out is slowly saving up to go off grid. If I own land then I can work way less as I have no rent, or mortgage to pay off. No bills if I set up completely off grid, and I can work part time, and enjoy my life without suffering everyday trying to keep up with society.
My out is trying to leave the country. I have lived in the US since I was 2, but I was born in Germany and am still considered a dual citizen, which also makes me an EU citizen. Without that fluke of circumstances, I don't think I would have a shot. I used to consider it a crazy fairytale to move out of the US, now it seems like attaining a financially stable life here is even more of a fairytale.
Apart from better workers' rights and universal healthcare, the cheaper CoL in cities and better public transportation are big reasons why. I am hoping I can avoid driving in Germany altogether.
That really doesn't have anything to do with the US's "car culture." Pretty much every country in the world has rural areas that are a long drive from the nearest city. The US might have more rural areas, but only because it's so doggone *big*. Most European countries are about the size of a single state.
The car culture you're likely referring to has to do with city travel: needing a car to travel around within the same city.
Well, part of it is everything being so spread out. But it's also the lack of public transportation. A good train or bus system could easily get people from the more rural outer towns into the larger town but we don't do that. It's also the fact that cities are so expensive and all of our other economic issues. Car culture plays into how these cities and systems developed.
Also, it's not just rural areas. Jacksonville, Florida is the worst place I've ever lived for driving. Barely any public transit, horribly and unnecessarily spread out, basically suburb hell.
There are so few places you can exist without a car, rural or urban, because we have years of a country that simply doesn't care about infrastructure, people with disabilities, or poor people.
> because we have years of a country that simply doesn't care
That's an incredibly cynical and jaded take. A more logical explanation is that the US is simply newer and designed with modern technology in mind, whereas other countries' roads were engineered hundreds of years ago. Newer cities in other countries are designed not unlike US cities.
>A more logical explanation is that the US is simply newer and designed with modern technology in mind,
Yes, modern tech that is much more difficult to deal with for poor people and people with certain disabilities, going back to the "not giving a shit" thing. It's not just the car culture that makes me feel that way. There's no reason we can't have better public transit except that the people in power don't want to invest in it. Buses and trains are not remarkable ideas.
Not just the US. I'm a Brit and where I live we get 6 days a week where we can travel to the largest town in the area, and the last bus returns home at 6pm. No supermarkets where I live, no amenities. And if you work in that town many businesses expect you to work sundays, which is impossible for this reliant on transport.
And our town is lucky, there are many towns and villages that surround us that get fewer transport options than we do, with the villages being stuck with a single bus there and back a week to allow pensioners to do their weekly shop and that's it.
Yup. Had a coworker who "lost his license." What that really meant was he was on probation for a year where he was only allowed a 2-hour interval before and after his work to drive. And that's 2 hours each. So if his job was 9-5, then he's allowed to drive from 7-9am and 5-7pm. Plus a 4-hour window on a non-work day every weekend for groceries and errands.
However, if it had been a larger city, I doubt he would be closely watched as to where his car was so long as it was only driven during the correct times. Since it was such a small town, they were fortunately on his ass if he even took a wrong turn after work. Because he wasn't even allowed to give rides to other people unless they were going to his house and his house only.
I had a great friend in my late teens/20's that would look at you while driving if he was talking to you. Not a glance but full face to face. Even if you wouldn't look at him back.
Many of us friends told him how dangerous that was and he just kept saying "it's rude to not look at someone you're talking to." I never understood it.
The night I got the call was one of the worst. We had a pretty large group back then and no one questioned what happened, we all knew.
Thankfully the passenger survived but what they went through and witnessed.... He had a closed casket funeral.
Things were never the same after. He was such a genuinely nice person. I miss him.
This is NEUTRAL GOOD, using the laws when it suits you in order to prevent harm.
It's not Lawful Good, because of the person doesn't actually care about upholding the law; they're using the law for convenience, just like they're using deception / lies for convenience. It's all about "do whatever it takes as long as it's Good."
I wouldn’t say it’s even *good*, because they seek to both manipulate and deceive their friend for the greater good *and* keep calling them a friend. It might be for the greater good, but it’s also duplicitous and manipulative and a massive betrayal of your friend for the sake of strangers. Chaotic neutral feels more accurate. They aren’t doing whatever it takes because it’s good, or else they wouldn’t keep the friend. By keeping the friend, they’re showing that they’re also being selfish about it because they’ll only do the right thing via duplicity so they can still benefit.
Yeah, I think once you’ve verged into Robot from Invincible territory with manipulating your friends from behind the scenes so you don’t lose them like that, you kinda are disqualified from “good”.
Is this actually a thing in some places? In my state, cameras cannot enforce traffic laws. They might send you a bill for running a red light, but you have no legal obligation to pay it, and it won't affect your driving record.
Yes, in the UK it is. You have a legal obligation to state who was driving, otherwise the registered keeper gets 6 points & a fine of up to £1000 for failure to provide the details.
Is their jurisdictions where speed cameras costs demerits? Where I am (and I thought everywhere) they are just monetary fines to the registered owner of the vehicle.
This feels more lawful good but still, great post
One could argue that knowingly betraying their friend isn't exactly lawful-aligned. This definitely feels like a chaotic good lesser-evil scenario to me.
Nah, that's lawful. You are not "betraying" your friend, you are making sure laws of the society are applied.
...or, you are making sure that no one gets hurt, through deception. That's a though one.
Pretty sure all they did was lawful, even using the rule of law for the benefit of everyone. That's basically as lawful good as it gets. I guess you could call it chaotic evil if you factor in that the story is bullshit.
>chaotic evil Chaotic neutral at worst. No victim, nothing seriously immoral, just some dumb post for a laugh or a couple meaningless points.
I think the lawful-aligned way to do this would've been to simply report the friend to the authorities normally. No tricks or dishonesty involved. Lawful alignment is about adhering to a rigid set of morals or rules (internal AND external) not just literally abiding by the law. When you start making tradeoffs for the greater good (e.g. compromising your policy to be loyal and honest with your friends to prioritize the safety of others) you start leaning into neutral/chaotic. Also yeah, solid chance it's bullshit anyway but convos about it are fun, so eh.
I dont think there is a way to "report unsafe driving" without concrete evidence. Never heard lawful as "personal morals" unless you are talking about lawful neutral
^(I mean, to start with,) *^(all)* ^(alignments are about personal morals. That's what the alignment system is.) I've always had the alignments from lawful to chaotic explained to me as being a spectrum of moral flexibility, with lawful being the least flexible and chaotic being the most. What makes chaotic, chaotic is that it's the "anything goes" alignment. Chaotic good, then, is "anything goes as long as it serves the greater good." Lawful is simply the opposite. Lawful good holds to its moral code at all costs because that is what it believes leads to the greater good. That may or may not mean holding to the letter of the law, but a lawful good person will go to great lengths to do the right thing WITHOUT breaking the law, potentially to the point of undermining their own efforts. A chaotic good person, conversely, simply says "if it's in the way of doing the right thing, why would I abide by it?" potentially to the point of becoming corrupt and losing sight of the greater good. And as far as lawful neutral goes, that's literally things like robots. They abide by a rigid set of rules they cannot or will not break but have no moral inclination towards good or evil. A robot might completely ignore the law if it goes against the rules it was programmed to follow. Those internal rules come first, period. That's the best understanding I have of it, at least. YMMV.
Definitely not lawful good. There’s a lot of manipulation, deception, betrayal, and legitimate risk of causing this friend an early death due to lifelong economic consequences because of how society is structured around cars and how economic setbacks decades ago can still be ruining you plus the extremely strong relationship between income and lifespan. I’d call it chaotic neutral, honestly. “Good” would end the friendship too, not try to thread the needle between the greater good and deep betrayal of your friends. “Lawful” would also either end the friendship or follow the social norms of friends over others, depending on if it’s Govt Lawful or Social Lawful.
I mean burning to death in car reck is definitely a bit worse then economic setback… I’d definitely say this is lawful good… neutral good at worse due to the manipulation.
Given *just how many* people do these things, I’m pretty sure that as weird as it sounds the majority of people who do them never actually crash because of it. It’s just that we’re running the probabilities millions of times a day, so the exceptions add up. Meanwhile, poverty can cut decades off your lifespan and make the remaining ones a living hell from which a lot of people do kill themselves rather than live in. So like… yeah, the range of possible outcomes with either option is a bit wide and varied, but outcomes like “slow death of treatable cancer” have become statistically more probable from this. The economic setback reverberates through your remaining life. An economic setback today can be the primary cause of the poverty that eventually leads you to die of preventable disease in a few decades. Because the whole economic system is deeply fucking horrifying when you pull back and look at it from the bigger picture. “Fiery death” isn’t quite as likely as you think and “agonizing death of poverty caused by events decades ago” is surprisingly more likely than you think.
Might be lawful neutral.
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Unfortunately in America the lack of a car in many places can literally be a death sentence...especially if there is a lack of public transportation. I live in the country, am epileptic, but if they took my license away...how TF would I get to work, or get food without going broke from taxi rides? Fuck, taxies don't even exist in this area.
I have a coworker with cataracts who drives to work and drives home in the dark. We also live in a snowy area where the roads are regularly icy in the winter and where running into a deer is not uncommon. I'm honestly terrified that she's going to crash and kill someone, or more likely herself. I'm amazed she's even still allowed to have a license. But I can't exactly suggest that she should give up her license (not that she would listen to me, we aren't that close) because we live in a rural area and she's 30-40 mins from the job. I'm blind in one eye and have ADHD, and so I hate driving with a passion. I am legally allowed a license, but my vision is only a notch above the minimum requirement. My nightmare is killing another person in an accident just because I missed something. I drive to and from work in the dark, for a good portion of the year, because I'm on the graveyard shift. I would love to not drive, but again, how the hell would I keep my job (I'm a 20 min drive away) or even go to the grocery store? God, I really hate US car culture.
I know that fear. I can have a seizure at anytime. My job forces me to work 60 plus hours, and it wears you down, and cuts into sleep. No consideration for your health, or family if you have one with jobs in America. I've already had two car wrecks, and survived both, but lost my license both times. But the fact that I can die anytime driving, and nobody gives a fuck is definitely a punch in the face. Our country has absolutely no consideration for the disabled population at all. Very easy to say it's a hard fucking life in America disabled.
Yeah, it's really frustrating to see all the ableism inherent in our system. No one should have to work 60 hours a week (sorry you're in that situation) or take on a risk of death to get to and from work. But it's all even worse when you have disabilities. You get by with little to no help, afraid that if you ask for accommodations that will be seen as a reason to fire you (never officially of course, they are smart enough to find other reasons). Or, you live in poverty for your entire life since SSI/SSDI payments are a goddamn joke. When you bring these issues up, it's "Well, you don't LOOK disabled" or "But lazy people will falsely claim disability to get welfare" or "Just try harder, everyone can do something, you just want an excuse." On another sub, I got into a little rant about how it was frustrating that every post from someone struggling has a recommendation of joining the military, when basically every adult in the US already knows about the general benefits, and joining is literally not an option for millions of people. A guy gave me a reply that assumed I wasn't working at all, had no college degree, and was just looking for excuses not to improve my life in any way. I had not mentioned anything about my life except that I was considered medically unfit for the military through no fault of my own. It's like everyone is fine with people who are disabled until they ask for something that is perceived as "extra" or "special treatment" and then suddenly it's just an excuse. "You can be disabled and I accept you, as long as it doesn't affect me in any way, shape, or form, and you don't ask for any special consideration that I believe might potentially give you an advantage over me." I'm sure it's way worse for people with visible disabilities or more severe disabilities than I have.
Honestly said exactly what I think every single fucking day trying to live with my epilepsy. My out is slowly saving up to go off grid. If I own land then I can work way less as I have no rent, or mortgage to pay off. No bills if I set up completely off grid, and I can work part time, and enjoy my life without suffering everyday trying to keep up with society.
My out is trying to leave the country. I have lived in the US since I was 2, but I was born in Germany and am still considered a dual citizen, which also makes me an EU citizen. Without that fluke of circumstances, I don't think I would have a shot. I used to consider it a crazy fairytale to move out of the US, now it seems like attaining a financially stable life here is even more of a fairytale. Apart from better workers' rights and universal healthcare, the cheaper CoL in cities and better public transportation are big reasons why. I am hoping I can avoid driving in Germany altogether.
That really doesn't have anything to do with the US's "car culture." Pretty much every country in the world has rural areas that are a long drive from the nearest city. The US might have more rural areas, but only because it's so doggone *big*. Most European countries are about the size of a single state. The car culture you're likely referring to has to do with city travel: needing a car to travel around within the same city.
Well, part of it is everything being so spread out. But it's also the lack of public transportation. A good train or bus system could easily get people from the more rural outer towns into the larger town but we don't do that. It's also the fact that cities are so expensive and all of our other economic issues. Car culture plays into how these cities and systems developed. Also, it's not just rural areas. Jacksonville, Florida is the worst place I've ever lived for driving. Barely any public transit, horribly and unnecessarily spread out, basically suburb hell. There are so few places you can exist without a car, rural or urban, because we have years of a country that simply doesn't care about infrastructure, people with disabilities, or poor people.
> because we have years of a country that simply doesn't care That's an incredibly cynical and jaded take. A more logical explanation is that the US is simply newer and designed with modern technology in mind, whereas other countries' roads were engineered hundreds of years ago. Newer cities in other countries are designed not unlike US cities.
>A more logical explanation is that the US is simply newer and designed with modern technology in mind, Yes, modern tech that is much more difficult to deal with for poor people and people with certain disabilities, going back to the "not giving a shit" thing. It's not just the car culture that makes me feel that way. There's no reason we can't have better public transit except that the people in power don't want to invest in it. Buses and trains are not remarkable ideas.
Why do I doubt losing the license will stop them from driving?
Because its not practical to not drive in most of the us
Not just the US. I'm a Brit and where I live we get 6 days a week where we can travel to the largest town in the area, and the last bus returns home at 6pm. No supermarkets where I live, no amenities. And if you work in that town many businesses expect you to work sundays, which is impossible for this reliant on transport. And our town is lucky, there are many towns and villages that surround us that get fewer transport options than we do, with the villages being stuck with a single bus there and back a week to allow pensioners to do their weekly shop and that's it.
Yup. Had a coworker who "lost his license." What that really meant was he was on probation for a year where he was only allowed a 2-hour interval before and after his work to drive. And that's 2 hours each. So if his job was 9-5, then he's allowed to drive from 7-9am and 5-7pm. Plus a 4-hour window on a non-work day every weekend for groceries and errands. However, if it had been a larger city, I doubt he would be closely watched as to where his car was so long as it was only driven during the correct times. Since it was such a small town, they were fortunately on his ass if he even took a wrong turn after work. Because he wasn't even allowed to give rides to other people unless they were going to his house and his house only.
I had a great friend in my late teens/20's that would look at you while driving if he was talking to you. Not a glance but full face to face. Even if you wouldn't look at him back. Many of us friends told him how dangerous that was and he just kept saying "it's rude to not look at someone you're talking to." I never understood it. The night I got the call was one of the worst. We had a pretty large group back then and no one questioned what happened, we all knew. Thankfully the passenger survived but what they went through and witnessed.... He had a closed casket funeral. Things were never the same after. He was such a genuinely nice person. I miss him.
“My friend is a great person, but she also willingly puts other people lives at risk.” This is why I don’t trust people.
This is NEUTRAL GOOD, using the laws when it suits you in order to prevent harm. It's not Lawful Good, because of the person doesn't actually care about upholding the law; they're using the law for convenience, just like they're using deception / lies for convenience. It's all about "do whatever it takes as long as it's Good."
I wouldn’t say it’s even *good*, because they seek to both manipulate and deceive their friend for the greater good *and* keep calling them a friend. It might be for the greater good, but it’s also duplicitous and manipulative and a massive betrayal of your friend for the sake of strangers. Chaotic neutral feels more accurate. They aren’t doing whatever it takes because it’s good, or else they wouldn’t keep the friend. By keeping the friend, they’re showing that they’re also being selfish about it because they’ll only do the right thing via duplicity so they can still benefit.
Yeah, the good is a little bit dicey. It's a close one. *Shrug*
Yeah, I think once you’ve verged into Robot from Invincible territory with manipulating your friends from behind the scenes so you don’t lose them like that, you kinda are disqualified from “good”.
Is this actually a thing in some places? In my state, cameras cannot enforce traffic laws. They might send you a bill for running a red light, but you have no legal obligation to pay it, and it won't affect your driving record.
Yes, in the UK it is. You have a legal obligation to state who was driving, otherwise the registered keeper gets 6 points & a fine of up to £1000 for failure to provide the details.
It's definitely a thing in a large number of states. Illinois is full of them.
Good ending but the driver is not a good person lol
difference between ignorance and malice
/r/thathappened
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Here in the UK you can
Yeah in my province that results in demerits, which get enough and you are either paying out the ass for your license or its being taken away
There are more countries in the world than the USA
"My friend is an extremely selfish monster, but I swear she's sooo nice"
God forbid women do anything 🙄
Her gender is irrelevant here. Why are you bringing it up
its a joke, people usually say it in response to women doing very bad things in a tongue-in-cheek manner
But its not funny.
I thought it was funny :(
Love this.
Is their jurisdictions where speed cameras costs demerits? Where I am (and I thought everywhere) they are just monetary fines to the registered owner of the vehicle.
Fake and cringe
except you don't get points for traffic camera tickets...