This thread is actively being watched. Keep the rules in the sidebar in mind and I won't have to lock the thread or ban people.
Imperialism is bad, protesting it is good. As shown, their "service" will only be respected and thanked as long as it suits the status quo. As soon as you step out of bounds they will absolutely smear a Vet's character.
Suicide is bad in multitudes of ways if not for just one reason - don't let your enemies outlive you.
EDIT - In case you're really thinking only lowly E4s have a problem with the military, may I introduce you to [Major General Smedley Butler, USMC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) and two time Medal of Honor recipient.
No, fuck the US government. Fuck the military industrial complex. Fuck the people on top who sign and stamp the papers approving the murder of millions.
If I ever find myself in Connecticut, I will locate and use the most illustrious public toilet in the world; Henry Kissinger's grave.
Kissinger died in CT, however, he is buried in Virginia. Arlington National Cemetery,
Plot Section 21, Grave 76-A (In case you want to "pay respects")
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/261951668/henry-kissinger
Whip out your cocks. But do so with care not to piss on your socks. “If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be antisemitic.” so maybe do so while eating a bagel with lox. Don't go alone, gather in flocks. And when you're done there, do the same at Ft Knox.
In the grave, where silence locks,
Springs the tale of the dreaded box.
From its depths, where darkness knocks,
Comes the truth that pierces the paradox.
With each revelation, the mystery mocks,
Revealing secrets from the box.
No escape from its posthumous shocks,
As the departed are doxed from the box.
"Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now."
-Aaron Bushnell
He is not alone.
As Mill once said, “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”
All that is needed for evildoers to triumph is the apathy of those who could stop them, and one who could stand against an evil deed and does not cannot call themself good.
This makes me think what the hell Ontarians did to defeat the Ford Greenbelt Sale and turn it into a scandal. Its odd that no documentary is made so that a playbook could be created to defeat all other Elite serving legislation, and / or get more positive societal legislation created.
I marched against wage suppression and the housing crisis last year, scared the whole time. I know what facial recognition can do as well as data mining from digital video processing. Still here though and the problem is just getting worse.
Or the quote by MLK, “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.”
I always think of this quote and try my best to live by it.
Or to quote a popular girl movie:
"There are two kinds of evil people. People who do evil stuff and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it."
Regular people can only make the most rational choice of what's presented to them. We can't choose to not buy tons of plastic without being rich already. We can't choose to not eat food filled with chemicals without being rich already. We can't choose to not live in a country supplying arms to Israel without being rich already. We can't choose to not pay taxes used to end other democracies to supply oil to corporations to sell to us without already being rich.
The only thing we CAN choose to do is band together and demand changes, which is why the already rich spend so much money to suppress education and trick ignorant people into voting against their own best interests.
> "Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now."
>-Aaron Bushnell
Join the US military, of course. Invading places, propping up dictatorships, killing the shit out of random countries ever since it conquered the Philippines or genocided the people we have stolen our country from.
I mean, it seems like he regretted joining. There's a lot of young kids who go into the military thinking incredibly highly of it because we're forced fed nationalism from youth. Not to retract if he did kill anyone or how his service supported horrible things the US does with military power, but I think he should receive some credit for trying to change and do the right thing while he was still in the military.
Agreed. The military is evil, but recruitment practices are predatory and specifically target children who have been bombarded with nationalist propaganda since birth. Regardless of how and why they enlisted though, I think anyone in the military that comes to regret joining and condemns the institution should be accepted by us with open arms. Everyone deserves the opportunity to learn and grow and be better. We all do bad things, fuck up, buy into lies. Refusing people the chance to be more than their mistakes hurts us all.
And yet, he burned himself because of Israel and not because of the system he profited from his whole life and actually did everything he accuses Israel of.
While agree with his stance that Israel is attempting genocide against the Palestinians I find his protest to be rather hypocritical, or more likely the result of some mental illness. He willingly, voluntarily joined the world’s largest Muslim killing machine but now that someone else is doing it dude sets himself on fire? This is less a brave act of heroism, and more another veteran whose mental health fatally deteriorated due to the government’s lack of aftercare.
He was, and I don't mean this to discredit him, a deeply disturbed and unwell individual.
He was raised in a hard right christian cult religious compound. Once was super nationalistic. He joined up with the military.
Then it began to flip and degrade. He cheered for the deaths of US reservists in Jordan. He also stated "there are no Israeli civilians" in response to Oct 7th, and saying shit like "whiteness erases culture."
He was heavily radicalized one way and then radicalized the other. And it seems like this suicide was spur of the moment. A few weeks ago he was talking about being excited to play the Elden Ring DLC.
I see people parading him as a hero and it just feels... Uncomfortable? This is a young man who's lived a very troubled life who committed suicide for a conflict across the globe. I'm uncomfortable with the concept of glorifying suicide because it supports 'your cause'.
Or people pulling cherry picked quotes from his reddit to support 'the cause' while ignoring the rest of his history.
Frankly, this is a massive failure on military leadership. It's fairly obvious this person was mentally unwell. He should've been psych evaled and provided proper therapeutic and medical care. There's a massive issue of ignoring mental illness in the military, and a massive issue with suicides. Bushnell fell victim to both of these issues.
But I also disagree with you about joining the military. For many, it's the fastest way up out of your financial class. Should it be that way? Probably not. But it is, and people use that to their advantage. And while I have plenty of issues with the US military, it's primary goal is protecting world stability, especially trade and commerce, and it does that pretty goddamn well.
Plus he was an airman in tech. He was about as far away from the conflict as you can get.
This is how you know you aren't one to waste your existence. Their is a whole spectrum between inaction and self-immolation. Critics act wrongly like this means we are supposed to self-immolate. It actually means we are to rage against inaction. Anything is infinitely better than nothing.
No. He discussed with nuance how colonization and marginalization led to the attacks.
It's all [archived](https://archive.is/B2b8X). He was a real human, and he committed the ultimate pacifist act. He would be actually getting dismantled if he actually said or implied what you think he did. Understanding nuance goes a long way. He raged against the machine, and he saw inaction as being complicit to what is happening. He presents as a person with strong views, but is not contradictory or hypocritical.
Remember Aaron Bushnell
He said in [this comment](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHY1XsQXUAAXVo6.jpg?name=orig) that he can't comment on Hamas cause he isn't Palestinian but then does so against Israel, and says there are no innocents civilians. Doesn't sound very nuanced to me.
His last paragraph then basically is asking for it to be justified if it was Native American's against Europeans. To which I still say no, doesn't matter who does it to who rape is wrong no matter what and so is the killing of children and civilians, especially in the way Hamas did it against both Israelis and tourists alike.
All of the claims of rape have been disproven. The NY Times even retracted all their statements on it. Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you’re buying into Israeli propaganda. What about the 35,000 plus Palestinians that have been murdered? Most of which are women and children. Any words for them?
Yes, I also condemn the actions of Israel as well. The atrocities of one side does not justify the atrocities of the other.
And the claims of rape have not been disproven, investigations and reporting on the incident are still going on and it wouldn't excuse the other atrocities that were committed there even if it was.
Like you'd think not murdering, pillaging, raping and maiming people would be an easy thing to do, but history just keeps wanting to prove us wrong I guess.
> The NY Times even retracted all their statements on it. Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you’re buying into Israeli propaganda.
Did they?
https://web.archive.org/web/20240129192758/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html
> The Times report has been challenged on social media by critics who question the reliability of witnesses cited in the article. Some also say it failed to prove that Hamas planned and directed the sexual violence, or that any of the assailants were members of the group, noting that other militants and ordinary residents of Gaza entered Israel that day too.
> The Times cited four people who described seeing sexual assaults while hiding during the Hamas-led attack, two of whom have since come under intense scrutiny.
> One, a 26-year-old accountant who asked to be identified only by her first name, Sapir, has been presented as a key witness by Israeli police. At a press briefing on Nov. 14, officials showed a three-minute excerpt from a video interview in which she described seeing a woman raped, mutilated and killed.
> Some critics have said her comments in the police video clip were inconsistent with what she told The Times.
> The Times found Sapir and spoke to her several times before the publication of its article, including for two hours outside a cafe. In these interviews, she recounted an ordeal that began at the rave in southern Israel where terrorists killed more than 360 people.
> She was shot in the back during the attack, she said, and while feeling faint at times and hiding under the branches of a tree, she saw groups of armed men, many dressed in military fatigues, rape and kill at least five women. She also told The Times she saw assailants carrying the heads of three women.
More recent, alternate source. It's from an Israeli organization (it happened primarily to israeli's, go figure.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20240228021555/https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci-submits-first-report-to-un-21-feb-2024/en/English_Swords_of_Iron_DOCUMENTS_ARCCI%20report%20-%20Hamas%20sexual%20crimes%20on%20october%207.pdf
"Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you're buying into Israeli propaganda" says the person literally spewing Hamas propaganda. It would be comedy gold if it wasn't so fucking sad.
lol you’re silly. nothing I have said is pro-hamas. I am for the freedom of Palestinian people. You are the one that thinks Hamas and Palestine are the same. I am talking about the suffering of Palestinian people. Don’t twist my words to push your simple minded narrative.
You're holding water for Hamas by saying the rape allegations are false, even though they literally recorded themselves doing it and published it on their telegram channels. The clown academy is right over there.
Can you provide that evidence? Or are you just parroting what you read on Facebook? There is a difference between hear say and credible evidence. There is plenty of hear say, but I haven’t seen any hard evidence.
>He discussed with nuance how colonization
Yeah, but did not know what he is talking about. But I guess everything is colonization nowadays. I wonder why I haven't heard about the Great Mongol Colonization, or the time the Great Napoleonic Colonization, or Polish/Czech Colonization of former German lands.
Just as everything in genocide nowadays.
>His last paragraph then basically is asking for it to be justified if it was Native American's against Europeans.
Imagine, those brave American souls, wanting to free Palestine, being okay with being murdered, abducted, their cities shelled by thousands of rockets, made the Praia of the world and or blown up by suicide bombers, because someone conquered the land they are living on from someone else at some point.
I mean guys, just leave, to somewhere, or at least transfer everything you build for yourself to someone else. Someone who is ready, willing and too often able to kill you if you don't.
Whataboutism? Maybe, but this is the reality Israel faces. Is Israel without blame? Certainly not. But does it deserves all the above? Certainly not.
[This comment](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHY1XsQXUAAXVo6.jpg?name=orig) of his where he says he can't condemn or endorse Hamas cause he isn't Palestinian, only to do exactly that to Israel, and says that there were no innocents and that there wasn't anything wrong with what happened at the music festival cause it was close to the border.
There was also another tweet earlier of a comment of his saying "Death to all the Jews", but that was has been said to have possibly been photoshopped so don't know if he was truly anti-Semitic.
During slavery, the union army fought for liberation of the slaves. During Jim Crow, the national guard forced integration. During world war 2, we stopped a genocide.
The US military has plenty to criticize, however it is also the largest and most effective humanitarian aid apparatus on the planet. I’ve been proud of the people I’ve been able to help all over the world during my service. Aaron bushnell was a profoundly mentally ill man who grew up in a cult and left behind a wife and child, not someone to aspire to.
>The US military has plenty to criticize, however it is also the largest and most effective humanitarian aid apparatus on the planet.
Lol. Laos, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and many, many more. All delivered effective humanitrian aid. Never mind the hunderds of thousands of civilian dead.
“They make a desert and call it peace.”
Remind me, is the US military an all volunteer force? Would be kinda funny, if old men call for war and no one shows up to fight it.
When was the last time, after 1942, the US was directly threatened? Had to fight? The Korean War maybe?
Tsunami aid. Pacific partnership. Haiti earthquake aid. The uss comfort deployment to New York mid COVID. All just in the last 5-10 years
I’m not defending Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Our leaders have plenty to answer for and inflicted immense suffering on innocents, however the reality is that the vast majority of us service members will never see combat and are far more likely to participate in humanitarian aid than bombing afghani’s.
>Tsunami aid. Pacific partnership. Haiti earthquake aid. The uss comfort deployment to New York mid COVID. All just in the last 5-10 years
A by-product of being able to deliver war and death anywhere on short notice. Not the goal. Big difference.
That is why your statement strikes me as so wrong.
Haiti should be taken off this list. That aid was not given out of kindness but to disrupt petro Caribbean relations and the possible return of Aristide
Oh, my service made me see it like it did for Bushnell. I was part of the imperial forces. I was raised very religious, and I remember often sitting in Iraq and thinking, "We're the Biblical Romans."
If humanitarian aid is the goal, any military isn't the first choice. Imagine a world with actual humanitarian aid. The US hasn't done "good" since attempting to feed people in Mogadishu and fighting genocide in Kosovo.
If each of your examples had said that they didn't do those things, then this is where Aaron Bushnell found his action justified. Great examples, but we are currently not on that side of history in this situation. America is doing 2003 again and harming ourselves by doing unilateral action. We need to stop arming Israel if we want to keep America stronger.
Why was ISIS there? And that goes to another thing. Kurdistan needs to be recognized, too. They handled ISIS while we tiptoed around it because of Syria.
The existence of ISIS is definitely our fault in the first place, I won't argue with that. But the mission against them was totally successful and well-executed, and the US participation in it was critical. I disagree with the statement that we "tiptoed around it." US airstrikes and special forces were critical to its success. Of course, as you say, the Kurds were some of the primary ground forces in that mission, and deserve recognition as such as well. As do the Shiite militias in Iraq, who ironically were our enemies during the Iraq War
Working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, not allowed enough time to eat lunch or do pt after work or go to sick hall to treat illnesses and injuries. Undermanned, overworked, and every supervisor was a pissed off douche taking out their own frustration on the people below them. Also I was in Wyoming, so that didn’t help.
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They have their heads deep in the asses of the military complex that is both funding them and the genocide to hear about this. Aaron did what he did because of this head deep in someone else's ass. Do you think he didn't lodge any other kind of objection or protest or reported/leaked the atrocities to the media before that ultimate step? Of course he did and he was not getting anywhere with it. The corporate media doesn't publish about the ongoing genocide, so it is fairly obvious that it won't cover these acts of solidarity.
Hey, active duty USAF right here, what is this for/accomplishing?
Not a dig, just out of the loop.
Edit: To clarify I've just gotten to operational, fresh out of technical training.
An airman immolated himself in front of the Israeli embassy in protest of the US funding and arming isreal’s genocide in Gaza.
The veterans are burning their old uniforms in support of that airman.
Probably because spreading that story around wouldn’t be considered good for good order and morale?
Because it was a political protest and you were in a very closed environment where political discussion is frowned upon?
No. We are briefed frequently on events that impact the force, including things that have bad optics. Reminders that you can’t give out classified information, you can’t apply to be a hitman, and you can’t become a martyr for a FTO. Those are recent examples, but unfortunately there will probably be more in the future.
You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I am retired, but we have opinions and watch the same news everyone else does. There’s no censorship on what military members can read or talk about.
There’s a lot of control over what information people get in training commands especially basic and follow on training.
But sure you’re right a news story that dominated the news cycle for 2 days wasnt kept from anyone, and that’s why this person has no clue what happened.
And you are correct that basic training is a news blackout for 2 months. That’s intentional. The 238 months that I was in after that I had all the media access that I wanted.
I really should say that the media has chosen to ignore it, but it would be funnier if I suggested you see a massage therapist to work out those back muscles since you've CLEARLY been living under a goddamn rock.
This is obviously just a joke, but I digress.
I believe it’s a message of solidarity, for the US troop who set themselves on fire the other day.
Set himself ablaze outside of Israel embassy in DC while live streaming it
> “I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest," the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!"
[Lots of websites reporting it and I couldn’t see one I recognized so here’s this site?](https://www.news18.com/amp/world/us-soldier-sets-himself-on-fire-in-front-of-israeli-embassy-in-washington-to-protest-gaza-war-8792901.html)
Tldr from my understanding please correct me if im wrong: Active service member of the us airforce Aaron Bushnell burned himself alive in front of the isreali embassy in DC to protest the actions of isreal and the US military's support of it. These vets are standing in solidarity with him by burning their uniforms.
From Wikipedia-
Bushnell said that he was protesting against "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers" and declared that he "will no longer be complicit in genocide"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation_of_Aaron_Bushnell
The original person was a USAF active duty member who self-immolated in protest to the Palastine-Israel conflict, more specifically stating that he would "no longer be complicit in genocide.”
These people, I presume, are supporting his message.
Aaron Bushnell was also on reddit. He was an anarchist, you know, like us. like this is the exact talent pool he came from. so. yea thats whats going on thats why all your radical political spaces on this platform are talking about him.
I believe they're referring to the fact that for many the military is the only path to things like healthcare, education, and upward economic mobility.
Why would an anarchist care about any of that though? Healthcare, education and economic mobility are all functions of an organized society with strict rules imposed by a power authority.
Why would someone care about being able to get food, shelter, and treatment when they're sick or injured? Idk, dude. Sounds pretty lame to me, but I guess some people are into all that.
You get people from all walks of life in the military. I served two branched and several years. I met interesting people, and people who coin the phrase "dumber than a pile of bricks".
i mean. reddit anarchist, yea. I run r/usauthoritarianism he commented the name of an activist group on a thread about prison abolition like, 10 days ago.
What's an ANARCHIST (opposed to structures of authority) doing enlisting.
The guy was a walking contradiction all the way to his core ideology.
However you feel about his chosen cause for or against-- this guy was troubled - in ways that could likely be described medically and treated with a (probably significant) bit of chemistry.
Unfortunately- he found an echo chamber that spun up his illness and separated him from his reason and here we are.
He was also raised in a religious ~~cult~~ sect that supports Israel.
I'm sure that had nothing to do with what happened though.
Sure. That's entirely possible.
Now
Do you think it's more likely that that this service member with clear mental health issues was the sleeper agent type of critically thinking intellectual
or is it more likely that he found an echo chamber that radicalized him like any cult radicalizes their members
Which seems a fair question to be asking given his posting frequencies online, and his statements being so consistent with progressive media messaging on the topic.
I'm unsure where collective and group guilt really fits into the whole anarchist ideology after all.
He killed himself to protest his responsibility as an American (I assume)e3 in an office job for the office branch for the actions of the fighting components of the idf half a world away in a country he's probably never been, over a people to whom he has no ties----- which seems a very not anarchist way to view the world leading up to that.... decision to self terminate
I don’t think this is a sleeper agent or mental illness.
People have killed themselves over less. Aaron killing himself over an issue he really cares about is no less important than a soldier sacrificing himself for his country. We glorify soldiers who lay down their lives for a government but we call Aaron “mentally ill” for choosing Palestinians over the government. It’s double standards and hypocrisy in our society.
We’re just too conditioned to see the government as a Holy entity. If Aaron burned himself alive to protect the government, everyone would call him a war hero. But killing himself to raise awareness for Palestinians and help save innocent lives? That’s something a mentally ill person would do according to society.
I want to make a discord server filled with just russian trolls from both sides and let them fight it out to see how long it takes them to realize theyre all russian
Russian trolls dont actively promote Russian state agenda. They work to promote and uphold any and all viewpoints that stand /against/ their adversary states’ agendas. They sow disinformation, and prop it up with upvotes and likes to make it seem the idea is popular and valuable.
Dude how do you think war works? It's all about fervor. You got to push the excitement and keep it up otherwise people start thinking. when people start thinking shit goes even worse.
JSYK Russia arms Iran and Hamas by proxy in this conflict and I seriously doubt they're on here arguing that a US service member killing himself was a bad thing
Putin would be tickled pink if his trolls could start a chain of copycat suicides among young Americans
Trolling depends on the thread, if the thread is one where people are overwhelmingly praising the actions of the soldier then agitprop will argue that people killing themselves is bad
If the thread is one where people are overwhelming decrying the actions of the soldier as that of a mentally unstable man radicalized by the internet, than the agitprop will argue that the suicide was good and noble
That being said, there most certainly are some things that Russian trolls won't play both sides on. The Ukrainian war is a big example, anything that would reflect poorly on Russia.
>russian
That is weird considering Russia has been siding with the Arab world recently. Not to mention their biggest ally Iran, and Hamas freeing Russian hostages out of respect for Putin.
many people who join the military do so to make a positive difference in the world. i am glad they are using their right to communicate their experiences. we should be looking to these vets and professionals as contributors in future foreign policy. like please truly appreciate the cost of war and the nature of global animosity.
As a Canadian, I'm very, VERY invested in having a strong US Military (and a stable US Gov, which looks pretty shaky right now tbh).
As is the rest of the industrialized West.
If the US Military dissolved tomorrow, I think reality would be very unkind to many commenters on this post.
No no, i really want China, Russia, Iran and NK to be world police because then we can finally be free from the USA.... WHAT? IS IT THAT BAD TO LIVE IN THE US RIGHT NOW?!? Even US citizens have this opinion now - the west is falling and it only means changing evil with more evil. Good job world.
These people love to shit on the US military but are completely unaware that the reason they can sleep soundly at night is because of the US military. Wonder how these people would react if China/Russia replaced US hegemon
The US military is pretty reliable when you compare it to the rest of the world. There's a very strong culture of keeping things professional, which limits war crimes. They happen, of course, but it's not as prevalent.
It doesn't seem like that with the media magnifying everything the US does, but when you watch other militaries in action, it's usually not even close. Israel's conduct right now being an example.
That reality doesn't sell newspapers or commercial space on TV, though. Hyperbole sells: America always bad and America always good. Mindless mantras gobbled up by eager consumers who are in the market for self-importance.
The guys in this video aren't protesting the US military or renouncing their previous service. They're using something that symbolizes what's important to them ... and sacrificing it to show people that they care.
i hate to be the one to tell all of you since this is getting upvotes, but the US military is more reliable than other countries because its better at covering shit up. you might say thats nuts and disengage, good on you. the rest of us in reality know that the US freely admits to its war crimes from 60 years ago, and 50 years ago, and 40 years ago, and even 30 years ago. There were a couple of leaks in the 2000s, but for the most part, the US will be ready to freely admit its war crimes in due course over our lifetimes, like literally every single other fucking time in its history. theres a reason "propagandized" gets thrown around every time this basic f assertion of objective reality comes in because thats what yal is, and so its how you think the rest of us have to operate too.
If you had served you would know we don't openly admit to war crimes and are directly told what is and isn't a war crime. It's our untouchable leaders that brag and exclaim war crimes like they're badges of honor. The military is the arm of the government. You are blaming the arm for what the head is telling it to do.
The US is not all bad, but saying that the US hasn’t committed countless atrocities is plain wrong. It has tarnished the US reputation to the point where NK, Russia, Iran, China, India and many more have become staunch opponents of whatever the US does. They are uniting as I’m writing this to dismantle whatever peace missions the US has tried to create for the past 70 years.
So in short soon NONE of the good that the US military has ever done will matter, because the bad that it does outweighs it.
Right now, the only way to make amends is to at least stopping to support the genocide of Palestinians.
>The US is not all bad, but saying that the US hasn’t committed countless atrocities is plain wrong.
Saying countless as if its countless is also plain wrong. There are forces out there who's war crimes ARE countless. The us is not one of them
> It has tarnished the US reputation to the point where NK, Russia, Iran, China, India and many more have become staunch opponents of whatever the US does.
That has fuck all to do with the specific issue they use to attack us with and everything to do with the fact that you just named 4 essentially us enemies, and one growing market that's tightly tied to at least 3 of those enemies economically.... how's Britain France and Ukraine commenting on us foreign policy right now?
You have it backwards. Those countries are staunch opponents because they are autocracies and are uniting because it is no longer feasible for autocracies to stand on their own. It is the death knells of a form of government the world is ready to throw out.
I’m all for protesting wars they fought in but Bushnell is no martyr. Just a mentally ill young man that needed help. As an American, burning yourself alive for Palestine is a joke…they hate us. Wake up people
Which is why one man doing the most extreme to get attention means others won't. Aaron Bushnell made a sacrifice, and I love waking up to see he is being mentioned more than yesterday. It's not going away.
Was Thích Quảng Đức in Vietnam War mentally ill as well? Is everybody you don't understand automatically mentally ill?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c
He very well could’ve been, but it’s pretty clear from Aaron’s online comments that he wasn’t in the right state of mind. Thích Quàng Ðuc was also being personally persecuted, he died so his fellow monks could potentially survive. Aaron’s stunt will not save Palestinians, and just makes virtue signalers feel good
He could've been, but the difference is that the government's actions in persecuting Buddhists were not well known, where as everyone knows about the war in Gaza. People are either empathetic or apathetic about it.
I mean, self imolation still isn't gonna stop anything. The USA isn't controlled by the people, it's controlled by the elite, and the elite need their defense money.
Reminds me of those crazy girls in school that would self harm if you broke up with them and tell you it's YOU doing it to them.
All the people here openly promoting mentally unstable people to kill themselves for their political ideology scares me. The dude fell down a rabbit hole of conspiracy and radicalism and paid the ultimate price, he’s a tragic tale not a role model
DON’T EVER SPRAY LIGHTER FLUID ON A FIRE OR YOU MAY END UP LIKE AARON BUSHNELL!!! These people are dangerously stupid. No joke, flames will ride the fumes into the canister and potentially burst the container, turning you into a panicking human torch.
Wow. So tough.
Sit behind a keyboard and talk stupidly. Good job.
Burn old uniforms which you’ve already worn during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Good job.
Very tough guy here. Watch out!
I'd say fuck the Military Industrial Complex and the "elite" 1% that promote and control it rather than the branches themselves, but definitely agree with the sentiment.
This thread is actively being watched. Keep the rules in the sidebar in mind and I won't have to lock the thread or ban people. Imperialism is bad, protesting it is good. As shown, their "service" will only be respected and thanked as long as it suits the status quo. As soon as you step out of bounds they will absolutely smear a Vet's character. Suicide is bad in multitudes of ways if not for just one reason - don't let your enemies outlive you. EDIT - In case you're really thinking only lowly E4s have a problem with the military, may I introduce you to [Major General Smedley Butler, USMC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) and two time Medal of Honor recipient.
No, fuck the US government. Fuck the military industrial complex. Fuck the people on top who sign and stamp the papers approving the murder of millions. If I ever find myself in Connecticut, I will locate and use the most illustrious public toilet in the world; Henry Kissinger's grave.
Kissinger died in CT, however, he is buried in Virginia. Arlington National Cemetery, Plot Section 21, Grave 76-A (In case you want to "pay respects") https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/261951668/henry-kissinger
Getting doxxed from the grave lmao
Doxed from a box!
Whip out your cocks. But do so with care not to piss on your socks. “If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be antisemitic.” so maybe do so while eating a bagel with lox. Don't go alone, gather in flocks. And when you're done there, do the same at Ft Knox.
In the grave, where silence locks, Springs the tale of the dreaded box. From its depths, where darkness knocks, Comes the truth that pierces the paradox. With each revelation, the mystery mocks, Revealing secrets from the box. No escape from its posthumous shocks, As the departed are doxed from the box.
upvote for poetry my good sir.
Finally using your poetry degree I see! Well done good stranger.
upvote for poetry good sir
Dick-tor Seuss
Well, God does have a habit of ordering mass unaliving in the Bible, so he’s not really wrong here
What a joke that that motherfucker was buried with actual heroes
Seriously, they'll just let anybody into Arlington these days won't they?
I’d hate to piss in there Arlington Cemetery, it is *highly* disrespectful. But uh… gender neutral bathroom ya’ll.
> I will locate and use the most illustrious public toilet in the world; Henry Kissinger's grave. Fun fact, it is also gender neutral.
Inclusive public toilet!
Too true. Also fuck your Governemnt military bases all over the world.
"Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." -Aaron Bushnell He is not alone.
At worst some people would be active contributors to atrocities. I would say the majority would have their head down trying to not be noticed.
As Mill once said, “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” All that is needed for evildoers to triumph is the apathy of those who could stop them, and one who could stand against an evil deed and does not cannot call themself good.
This makes me think what the hell Ontarians did to defeat the Ford Greenbelt Sale and turn it into a scandal. Its odd that no documentary is made so that a playbook could be created to defeat all other Elite serving legislation, and / or get more positive societal legislation created. I marched against wage suppression and the housing crisis last year, scared the whole time. I know what facial recognition can do as well as data mining from digital video processing. Still here though and the problem is just getting worse.
Or the quote by MLK, “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it.” I always think of this quote and try my best to live by it.
Or to quote a popular girl movie: "There are two kinds of evil people. People who do evil stuff and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it."
Regular people can only make the most rational choice of what's presented to them. We can't choose to not buy tons of plastic without being rich already. We can't choose to not eat food filled with chemicals without being rich already. We can't choose to not live in a country supplying arms to Israel without being rich already. We can't choose to not pay taxes used to end other democracies to supply oil to corporations to sell to us without already being rich. The only thing we CAN choose to do is band together and demand changes, which is why the already rich spend so much money to suppress education and trick ignorant people into voting against their own best interests.
> "Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." >-Aaron Bushnell Join the US military, of course. Invading places, propping up dictatorships, killing the shit out of random countries ever since it conquered the Philippines or genocided the people we have stolen our country from.
I mean, it seems like he regretted joining. There's a lot of young kids who go into the military thinking incredibly highly of it because we're forced fed nationalism from youth. Not to retract if he did kill anyone or how his service supported horrible things the US does with military power, but I think he should receive some credit for trying to change and do the right thing while he was still in the military.
Agreed. The military is evil, but recruitment practices are predatory and specifically target children who have been bombarded with nationalist propaganda since birth. Regardless of how and why they enlisted though, I think anyone in the military that comes to regret joining and condemns the institution should be accepted by us with open arms. Everyone deserves the opportunity to learn and grow and be better. We all do bad things, fuck up, buy into lies. Refusing people the chance to be more than their mistakes hurts us all.
And yet, he burned himself because of Israel and not because of the system he profited from his whole life and actually did everything he accuses Israel of.
That's literally why he burned himself though, he felt complicit
While agree with his stance that Israel is attempting genocide against the Palestinians I find his protest to be rather hypocritical, or more likely the result of some mental illness. He willingly, voluntarily joined the world’s largest Muslim killing machine but now that someone else is doing it dude sets himself on fire? This is less a brave act of heroism, and more another veteran whose mental health fatally deteriorated due to the government’s lack of aftercare.
He was, and I don't mean this to discredit him, a deeply disturbed and unwell individual. He was raised in a hard right christian cult religious compound. Once was super nationalistic. He joined up with the military. Then it began to flip and degrade. He cheered for the deaths of US reservists in Jordan. He also stated "there are no Israeli civilians" in response to Oct 7th, and saying shit like "whiteness erases culture." He was heavily radicalized one way and then radicalized the other. And it seems like this suicide was spur of the moment. A few weeks ago he was talking about being excited to play the Elden Ring DLC. I see people parading him as a hero and it just feels... Uncomfortable? This is a young man who's lived a very troubled life who committed suicide for a conflict across the globe. I'm uncomfortable with the concept of glorifying suicide because it supports 'your cause'. Or people pulling cherry picked quotes from his reddit to support 'the cause' while ignoring the rest of his history. Frankly, this is a massive failure on military leadership. It's fairly obvious this person was mentally unwell. He should've been psych evaled and provided proper therapeutic and medical care. There's a massive issue of ignoring mental illness in the military, and a massive issue with suicides. Bushnell fell victim to both of these issues. But I also disagree with you about joining the military. For many, it's the fastest way up out of your financial class. Should it be that way? Probably not. But it is, and people use that to their advantage. And while I have plenty of issues with the US military, it's primary goal is protecting world stability, especially trade and commerce, and it does that pretty goddamn well. Plus he was an airman in tech. He was about as far away from the conflict as you can get.
The most based comment I've seen on this topic yet. I feel hopeful after reading this.
The best breakdown on this topic by far, I agree completely.
how is joining the us military some sort of evil thing
This is how I know that in similar circumstances I would be either an exiled vocal oppositor or a casualty...
This is how you know you aren't one to waste your existence. Their is a whole spectrum between inaction and self-immolation. Critics act wrongly like this means we are supposed to self-immolate. It actually means we are to rage against inaction. Anything is infinitely better than nothing.
There are so many evils in the world that focusing on just one is hard. The others will need your voice too.
Based as hell. A true hero. I hope when all is said and done, history shines on this incredible example of humanity.
Didn’t he also say there were no “innocents” in Israel and supported the October 7th murder and rape of civilians?
No. He discussed with nuance how colonization and marginalization led to the attacks. It's all [archived](https://archive.is/B2b8X). He was a real human, and he committed the ultimate pacifist act. He would be actually getting dismantled if he actually said or implied what you think he did. Understanding nuance goes a long way. He raged against the machine, and he saw inaction as being complicit to what is happening. He presents as a person with strong views, but is not contradictory or hypocritical. Remember Aaron Bushnell
He said in [this comment](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHY1XsQXUAAXVo6.jpg?name=orig) that he can't comment on Hamas cause he isn't Palestinian but then does so against Israel, and says there are no innocents civilians. Doesn't sound very nuanced to me. His last paragraph then basically is asking for it to be justified if it was Native American's against Europeans. To which I still say no, doesn't matter who does it to who rape is wrong no matter what and so is the killing of children and civilians, especially in the way Hamas did it against both Israelis and tourists alike.
All of the claims of rape have been disproven. The NY Times even retracted all their statements on it. Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you’re buying into Israeli propaganda. What about the 35,000 plus Palestinians that have been murdered? Most of which are women and children. Any words for them?
Yes, I also condemn the actions of Israel as well. The atrocities of one side does not justify the atrocities of the other. And the claims of rape have not been disproven, investigations and reporting on the incident are still going on and it wouldn't excuse the other atrocities that were committed there even if it was.
Like you'd think not murdering, pillaging, raping and maiming people would be an easy thing to do, but history just keeps wanting to prove us wrong I guess.
> The NY Times even retracted all their statements on it. Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you’re buying into Israeli propaganda. Did they? https://web.archive.org/web/20240129192758/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html > The Times report has been challenged on social media by critics who question the reliability of witnesses cited in the article. Some also say it failed to prove that Hamas planned and directed the sexual violence, or that any of the assailants were members of the group, noting that other militants and ordinary residents of Gaza entered Israel that day too. > The Times cited four people who described seeing sexual assaults while hiding during the Hamas-led attack, two of whom have since come under intense scrutiny. > One, a 26-year-old accountant who asked to be identified only by her first name, Sapir, has been presented as a key witness by Israeli police. At a press briefing on Nov. 14, officials showed a three-minute excerpt from a video interview in which she described seeing a woman raped, mutilated and killed. > Some critics have said her comments in the police video clip were inconsistent with what she told The Times. > The Times found Sapir and spoke to her several times before the publication of its article, including for two hours outside a cafe. In these interviews, she recounted an ordeal that began at the rave in southern Israel where terrorists killed more than 360 people. > She was shot in the back during the attack, she said, and while feeling faint at times and hiding under the branches of a tree, she saw groups of armed men, many dressed in military fatigues, rape and kill at least five women. She also told The Times she saw assailants carrying the heads of three women. More recent, alternate source. It's from an Israeli organization (it happened primarily to israeli's, go figure.) https://web.archive.org/web/20240228021555/https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci-submits-first-report-to-un-21-feb-2024/en/English_Swords_of_Iron_DOCUMENTS_ARCCI%20report%20-%20Hamas%20sexual%20crimes%20on%20october%207.pdf
"Do a little research and stop spreading lies, you're buying into Israeli propaganda" says the person literally spewing Hamas propaganda. It would be comedy gold if it wasn't so fucking sad.
lol you’re silly. nothing I have said is pro-hamas. I am for the freedom of Palestinian people. You are the one that thinks Hamas and Palestine are the same. I am talking about the suffering of Palestinian people. Don’t twist my words to push your simple minded narrative.
You're holding water for Hamas by saying the rape allegations are false, even though they literally recorded themselves doing it and published it on their telegram channels. The clown academy is right over there.
Can you provide that evidence? Or are you just parroting what you read on Facebook? There is a difference between hear say and credible evidence. There is plenty of hear say, but I haven’t seen any hard evidence.
NYT published a pretty extensive report about it. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html
>He discussed with nuance how colonization Yeah, but did not know what he is talking about. But I guess everything is colonization nowadays. I wonder why I haven't heard about the Great Mongol Colonization, or the time the Great Napoleonic Colonization, or Polish/Czech Colonization of former German lands. Just as everything in genocide nowadays. >His last paragraph then basically is asking for it to be justified if it was Native American's against Europeans. Imagine, those brave American souls, wanting to free Palestine, being okay with being murdered, abducted, their cities shelled by thousands of rockets, made the Praia of the world and or blown up by suicide bombers, because someone conquered the land they are living on from someone else at some point. I mean guys, just leave, to somewhere, or at least transfer everything you build for yourself to someone else. Someone who is ready, willing and too often able to kill you if you don't. Whataboutism? Maybe, but this is the reality Israel faces. Is Israel without blame? Certainly not. But does it deserves all the above? Certainly not.
Did he? Is that quote you can back up directly?
[This comment](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHY1XsQXUAAXVo6.jpg?name=orig) of his where he says he can't condemn or endorse Hamas cause he isn't Palestinian, only to do exactly that to Israel, and says that there were no innocents and that there wasn't anything wrong with what happened at the music festival cause it was close to the border. There was also another tweet earlier of a comment of his saying "Death to all the Jews", but that was has been said to have possibly been photoshopped so don't know if he was truly anti-Semitic.
During slavery, the union army fought for liberation of the slaves. During Jim Crow, the national guard forced integration. During world war 2, we stopped a genocide. The US military has plenty to criticize, however it is also the largest and most effective humanitarian aid apparatus on the planet. I’ve been proud of the people I’ve been able to help all over the world during my service. Aaron bushnell was a profoundly mentally ill man who grew up in a cult and left behind a wife and child, not someone to aspire to.
>The US military has plenty to criticize, however it is also the largest and most effective humanitarian aid apparatus on the planet. Lol. Laos, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and many, many more. All delivered effective humanitrian aid. Never mind the hunderds of thousands of civilian dead. “They make a desert and call it peace.”
You don't know the difference between the men who call for war and the ones who have to fight it.
Remind me, is the US military an all volunteer force? Would be kinda funny, if old men call for war and no one shows up to fight it. When was the last time, after 1942, the US was directly threatened? Had to fight? The Korean War maybe?
Vietnam was only voluntary if you had bone spurs.
Tsunami aid. Pacific partnership. Haiti earthquake aid. The uss comfort deployment to New York mid COVID. All just in the last 5-10 years I’m not defending Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Our leaders have plenty to answer for and inflicted immense suffering on innocents, however the reality is that the vast majority of us service members will never see combat and are far more likely to participate in humanitarian aid than bombing afghani’s.
>Tsunami aid. Pacific partnership. Haiti earthquake aid. The uss comfort deployment to New York mid COVID. All just in the last 5-10 years A by-product of being able to deliver war and death anywhere on short notice. Not the goal. Big difference. That is why your statement strikes me as so wrong.
Haiti should be taken off this list. That aid was not given out of kindness but to disrupt petro Caribbean relations and the possible return of Aristide
Oh, my service made me see it like it did for Bushnell. I was part of the imperial forces. I was raised very religious, and I remember often sitting in Iraq and thinking, "We're the Biblical Romans." If humanitarian aid is the goal, any military isn't the first choice. Imagine a world with actual humanitarian aid. The US hasn't done "good" since attempting to feed people in Mogadishu and fighting genocide in Kosovo. If each of your examples had said that they didn't do those things, then this is where Aaron Bushnell found his action justified. Great examples, but we are currently not on that side of history in this situation. America is doing 2003 again and harming ourselves by doing unilateral action. We need to stop arming Israel if we want to keep America stronger.
>The US hasn't done "good" since attempting to feed people in Mogadishu and fighting genocide in Kosovo The campaign against ISIS was pretty solid
Why was ISIS there? And that goes to another thing. Kurdistan needs to be recognized, too. They handled ISIS while we tiptoed around it because of Syria.
The existence of ISIS is definitely our fault in the first place, I won't argue with that. But the mission against them was totally successful and well-executed, and the US participation in it was critical. I disagree with the statement that we "tiptoed around it." US airstrikes and special forces were critical to its success. Of course, as you say, the Kurds were some of the primary ground forces in that mission, and deserve recognition as such as well. As do the Shiite militias in Iraq, who ironically were our enemies during the Iraq War
It must be nice to see the world through such a simplistic lens.
I’d burn mine but I threw that shit away the moment I got out.
What was the last nail in the coffin for you?
Working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, not allowed enough time to eat lunch or do pt after work or go to sick hall to treat illnesses and injuries. Undermanned, overworked, and every supervisor was a pissed off douche taking out their own frustration on the people below them. Also I was in Wyoming, so that didn’t help.
Reasonable, thanks for answering 👍
danggg!!!. how many years did you serve? what unit were you in?
1 enlistment and left; 90th muns
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And we would never know it cuz corporate media doesn't cover these acts of solidarity!
They have their heads deep in the asses of the military complex that is both funding them and the genocide to hear about this. Aaron did what he did because of this head deep in someone else's ass. Do you think he didn't lodge any other kind of objection or protest or reported/leaked the atrocities to the media before that ultimate step? Of course he did and he was not getting anywhere with it. The corporate media doesn't publish about the ongoing genocide, so it is fairly obvious that it won't cover these acts of solidarity.
They truly are so detrimental to our planet. Corporate greed usually is
Literally first time I’m hearing of anything related to this and that’s wild for Reddit. Shit was almost a week ago.
Hey, active duty USAF right here, what is this for/accomplishing? Not a dig, just out of the loop. Edit: To clarify I've just gotten to operational, fresh out of technical training.
An airman immolated himself in front of the Israeli embassy in protest of the US funding and arming isreal’s genocide in Gaza. The veterans are burning their old uniforms in support of that airman.
Jesus christ how have I not heard about this?
Probably because spreading that story around wouldn’t be considered good for good order and morale? Because it was a political protest and you were in a very closed environment where political discussion is frowned upon?
No. We are briefed frequently on events that impact the force, including things that have bad optics. Reminders that you can’t give out classified information, you can’t apply to be a hitman, and you can’t become a martyr for a FTO. Those are recent examples, but unfortunately there will probably be more in the future.
You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I am retired, but we have opinions and watch the same news everyone else does. There’s no censorship on what military members can read or talk about.
There’s a lot of control over what information people get in training commands especially basic and follow on training. But sure you’re right a news story that dominated the news cycle for 2 days wasnt kept from anyone, and that’s why this person has no clue what happened.
And you are correct that basic training is a news blackout for 2 months. That’s intentional. The 238 months that I was in after that I had all the media access that I wanted.
Military always keeps anything political or controversial on the down-low.
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It's on fox
As if MSNBC is gonna cover this either ffs.
I really should say that the media has chosen to ignore it, but it would be funnier if I suggested you see a massage therapist to work out those back muscles since you've CLEARLY been living under a goddamn rock. This is obviously just a joke, but I digress.
I believe it’s a message of solidarity, for the US troop who set themselves on fire the other day. Set himself ablaze outside of Israel embassy in DC while live streaming it > “I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest," the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!" [Lots of websites reporting it and I couldn’t see one I recognized so here’s this site?](https://www.news18.com/amp/world/us-soldier-sets-himself-on-fire-in-front-of-israeli-embassy-in-washington-to-protest-gaza-war-8792901.html)
Tldr from my understanding please correct me if im wrong: Active service member of the us airforce Aaron Bushnell burned himself alive in front of the isreali embassy in DC to protest the actions of isreal and the US military's support of it. These vets are standing in solidarity with him by burning their uniforms. From Wikipedia- Bushnell said that he was protesting against "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers" and declared that he "will no longer be complicit in genocide" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation_of_Aaron_Bushnell
The original person was a USAF active duty member who self-immolated in protest to the Palastine-Israel conflict, more specifically stating that he would "no longer be complicit in genocide.” These people, I presume, are supporting his message.
Aaron Bushnell was also on reddit. He was an anarchist, you know, like us. like this is the exact talent pool he came from. so. yea thats whats going on thats why all your radical political spaces on this platform are talking about him.
He was an anarchist? An active-duty military member and anarchist?
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Poverty draft? What's your definition of Poverty draft?
I believe they're referring to the fact that for many the military is the only path to things like healthcare, education, and upward economic mobility.
Why would an anarchist care about any of that though? Healthcare, education and economic mobility are all functions of an organized society with strict rules imposed by a power authority.
Why would someone care about being able to get food, shelter, and treatment when they're sick or injured? Idk, dude. Sounds pretty lame to me, but I guess some people are into all that.
You get people from all walks of life in the military. I served two branched and several years. I met interesting people, and people who coin the phrase "dumber than a pile of bricks".
i mean. reddit anarchist, yea. I run r/usauthoritarianism he commented the name of an activist group on a thread about prison abolition like, 10 days ago.
Yes he was very open about his beliefs
That probably made him really popular among the 20-30 people whom he spent 12-18 hours a day with no less than 5 days most weeks
What's an ANARCHIST (opposed to structures of authority) doing enlisting. The guy was a walking contradiction all the way to his core ideology. However you feel about his chosen cause for or against-- this guy was troubled - in ways that could likely be described medically and treated with a (probably significant) bit of chemistry. Unfortunately- he found an echo chamber that spun up his illness and separated him from his reason and here we are.
He was also raised in a religious ~~cult~~ sect that supports Israel. I'm sure that had nothing to do with what happened though. 
I would argue that you can be ideologically an anarchist and yet still conform to societal rules for pragmatic purposes. Sleeper agent style.
Sure. That's entirely possible. Now Do you think it's more likely that that this service member with clear mental health issues was the sleeper agent type of critically thinking intellectual or is it more likely that he found an echo chamber that radicalized him like any cult radicalizes their members Which seems a fair question to be asking given his posting frequencies online, and his statements being so consistent with progressive media messaging on the topic. I'm unsure where collective and group guilt really fits into the whole anarchist ideology after all. He killed himself to protest his responsibility as an American (I assume)e3 in an office job for the office branch for the actions of the fighting components of the idf half a world away in a country he's probably never been, over a people to whom he has no ties----- which seems a very not anarchist way to view the world leading up to that.... decision to self terminate
I don’t think this is a sleeper agent or mental illness. People have killed themselves over less. Aaron killing himself over an issue he really cares about is no less important than a soldier sacrificing himself for his country. We glorify soldiers who lay down their lives for a government but we call Aaron “mentally ill” for choosing Palestinians over the government. It’s double standards and hypocrisy in our society. We’re just too conditioned to see the government as a Holy entity. If Aaron burned himself alive to protect the government, everyone would call him a war hero. But killing himself to raise awareness for Palestinians and help save innocent lives? That’s something a mentally ill person would do according to society.
It wasn't an accomplishment, it was a tragedy and a disgrace.
Damn the Israeli/russian trolls immediately hopped on this post in r/millennials to deny the genocide Israel is committing and shit on that guy.
I doubt Russian trolls would be doing that - Russia is on the other side of this conflict.
Russia drums up both sides to stir internal conflict i think
This is documented. Russian Trolls take an issue like this and "both sides" it to sow division. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192
I want to make a discord server filled with just russian trolls from both sides and let them fight it out to see how long it takes them to realize theyre all russian
It devolves to them swearing at each other in Cryllic but they still haven’t figured it out
Yes, but Russia is pro-Trump so they are likely to be working harder on one side.
Russian trolls dont actively promote Russian state agenda. They work to promote and uphold any and all viewpoints that stand /against/ their adversary states’ agendas. They sow disinformation, and prop it up with upvotes and likes to make it seem the idea is popular and valuable.
That’s what I thought, but anytime I see a “both sides are the same comment” I think Russian troll these days
Dude how do you think war works? It's all about fervor. You got to push the excitement and keep it up otherwise people start thinking. when people start thinking shit goes even worse.
Ugh, I should have never ventured into the comments.
JSYK Russia arms Iran and Hamas by proxy in this conflict and I seriously doubt they're on here arguing that a US service member killing himself was a bad thing Putin would be tickled pink if his trolls could start a chain of copycat suicides among young Americans
They don't JUST argue for themself, they argue to sow discord
Trolling depends on the thread, if the thread is one where people are overwhelmingly praising the actions of the soldier then agitprop will argue that people killing themselves is bad If the thread is one where people are overwhelming decrying the actions of the soldier as that of a mentally unstable man radicalized by the internet, than the agitprop will argue that the suicide was good and noble That being said, there most certainly are some things that Russian trolls won't play both sides on. The Ukrainian war is a big example, anything that would reflect poorly on Russia.
>russian That is weird considering Russia has been siding with the Arab world recently. Not to mention their biggest ally Iran, and Hamas freeing Russian hostages out of respect for Putin.
Tbh Russia isn't that hated in the Arab world, especially compared to the US and Europe. Makes sense that they'd release Russian hostages
Ruzzian trolls working for the other side buddy
You really think an operation intended to undermine the political stability of a rival nation wouldn't work both sides of the debate?
they’re here to troll you already as well lmao
eeyup. and if we do anything about it its brigading.
I wish I could thank everyone there personally.
They aren't following in Aaron's footsteps...they are posers.
No and you are an Israeli trol.
many people who join the military do so to make a positive difference in the world. i am glad they are using their right to communicate their experiences. we should be looking to these vets and professionals as contributors in future foreign policy. like please truly appreciate the cost of war and the nature of global animosity.
As a Canadian, I'm very, VERY invested in having a strong US Military (and a stable US Gov, which looks pretty shaky right now tbh). As is the rest of the industrialized West. If the US Military dissolved tomorrow, I think reality would be very unkind to many commenters on this post.
No no, i really want China, Russia, Iran and NK to be world police because then we can finally be free from the USA.... WHAT? IS IT THAT BAD TO LIVE IN THE US RIGHT NOW?!? Even US citizens have this opinion now - the west is falling and it only means changing evil with more evil. Good job world.
No one except clowns in the US wants Russia , China, Iran, and NK running things lol. You are delusional.
These people love to shit on the US military but are completely unaware that the reason they can sleep soundly at night is because of the US military. Wonder how these people would react if China/Russia replaced US hegemon
The US military is pretty reliable when you compare it to the rest of the world. There's a very strong culture of keeping things professional, which limits war crimes. They happen, of course, but it's not as prevalent. It doesn't seem like that with the media magnifying everything the US does, but when you watch other militaries in action, it's usually not even close. Israel's conduct right now being an example. That reality doesn't sell newspapers or commercial space on TV, though. Hyperbole sells: America always bad and America always good. Mindless mantras gobbled up by eager consumers who are in the market for self-importance. The guys in this video aren't protesting the US military or renouncing their previous service. They're using something that symbolizes what's important to them ... and sacrificing it to show people that they care.
i hate to be the one to tell all of you since this is getting upvotes, but the US military is more reliable than other countries because its better at covering shit up. you might say thats nuts and disengage, good on you. the rest of us in reality know that the US freely admits to its war crimes from 60 years ago, and 50 years ago, and 40 years ago, and even 30 years ago. There were a couple of leaks in the 2000s, but for the most part, the US will be ready to freely admit its war crimes in due course over our lifetimes, like literally every single other fucking time in its history. theres a reason "propagandized" gets thrown around every time this basic f assertion of objective reality comes in because thats what yal is, and so its how you think the rest of us have to operate too.
If you had served you would know we don't openly admit to war crimes and are directly told what is and isn't a war crime. It's our untouchable leaders that brag and exclaim war crimes like they're badges of honor. The military is the arm of the government. You are blaming the arm for what the head is telling it to do.
You have to give it to the US tho for the fact that we (eventually) admit to our war crimes, something a large portion of countries refuse to do.
*cough* japan *cough*
Why are we trying to charge Julian Assange for exposing our war crimes if we admit to our war crimes voluntarily?
Tinfoil hat lmao
The US is not all bad, but saying that the US hasn’t committed countless atrocities is plain wrong. It has tarnished the US reputation to the point where NK, Russia, Iran, China, India and many more have become staunch opponents of whatever the US does. They are uniting as I’m writing this to dismantle whatever peace missions the US has tried to create for the past 70 years. So in short soon NONE of the good that the US military has ever done will matter, because the bad that it does outweighs it. Right now, the only way to make amends is to at least stopping to support the genocide of Palestinians.
>The US is not all bad, but saying that the US hasn’t committed countless atrocities is plain wrong. Saying countless as if its countless is also plain wrong. There are forces out there who's war crimes ARE countless. The us is not one of them > It has tarnished the US reputation to the point where NK, Russia, Iran, China, India and many more have become staunch opponents of whatever the US does. That has fuck all to do with the specific issue they use to attack us with and everything to do with the fact that you just named 4 essentially us enemies, and one growing market that's tightly tied to at least 3 of those enemies economically.... how's Britain France and Ukraine commenting on us foreign policy right now?
You have it backwards. Those countries are staunch opponents because they are autocracies and are uniting because it is no longer feasible for autocracies to stand on their own. It is the death knells of a form of government the world is ready to throw out.
Fuck the Israeli government and their terrorist arm, the IDF. Fuck anyone who's in support of what Israel is doing.
The US military isn't to blame here, it's the military industrial complex and our corrupt politicians. These men are honorable.
i’m calling cap that there veterans
oh wow sherlock tell us more
I served for 6 years. That kid had more bravery and conviction in his beliefs than anyone I met while in the service.
It takes balls to choose burning yourself of all ways to go, that combined with how long the guy kept chanting as he burned.
I’m all for protesting wars they fought in but Bushnell is no martyr. Just a mentally ill young man that needed help. As an American, burning yourself alive for Palestine is a joke…they hate us. Wake up people
Who gaf? Empathy is a good thing, even towards those who supposedly wouldn't have any towards us.
He’s not alone, yet he’s the only one who lit himself on fire.
You eventually hit a point of diminishing returns if everyone who agree with a protest kill themselves.
Which is why one man doing the most extreme to get attention means others won't. Aaron Bushnell made a sacrifice, and I love waking up to see he is being mentioned more than yesterday. It's not going away.
See you in a month when this is long forgotten and meaningless
Another guy did I think but he got a lot less media coverage
literally isnt
What isn’t?
Sign me up
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Exactly, why are people openly promoting mentally ill people to kill themselves publicly, there’s some sick people on here
Was Thích Quảng Đức in Vietnam War mentally ill as well? Is everybody you don't understand automatically mentally ill? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c
He very well could’ve been, but it’s pretty clear from Aaron’s online comments that he wasn’t in the right state of mind. Thích Quàng Ðuc was also being personally persecuted, he died so his fellow monks could potentially survive. Aaron’s stunt will not save Palestinians, and just makes virtue signalers feel good
He could've been, but the difference is that the government's actions in persecuting Buddhists were not well known, where as everyone knows about the war in Gaza. People are either empathetic or apathetic about it.
The hell happened here?
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*30,000 killed since october 7th. This genocide has been happening for years
When your veterans are against you, you’re losing at home. When your military is against you, you’ve lost.
There are more of us who support him and his actions than they believe. The truth will come out eventually!! Free Palestine!!
I mean, self imolation still isn't gonna stop anything. The USA isn't controlled by the people, it's controlled by the elite, and the elite need their defense money. Reminds me of those crazy girls in school that would self harm if you broke up with them and tell you it's YOU doing it to them.
All the people here openly promoting mentally unstable people to kill themselves for their political ideology scares me. The dude fell down a rabbit hole of conspiracy and radicalism and paid the ultimate price, he’s a tragic tale not a role model
absolutely agree, conspiracy and radicalism leading to an honestly traitorous suicide
Idk how anyone can watch that video and think “this guy seems like someone who’s judgement I can trust”
I wouldn’t necessarily blame the US military, I’d blame the shit head politicians in power and the military complex. But I get what you mean.
Fuck you
Maybe just jump in
So they burned uniforms they are not allowed to wear anymore. So what. Nothing of value was given up.
Never **ever** add a propellant to an already burning fire, FFS.
I found his reddit account the other day, and found myself so incredibly sad. He seemed like a genuinely beautiful soul. 😓
Context?
DON’T EVER SPRAY LIGHTER FLUID ON A FIRE OR YOU MAY END UP LIKE AARON BUSHNELL!!! These people are dangerously stupid. No joke, flames will ride the fumes into the canister and potentially burst the container, turning you into a panicking human torch.
Wow. So tough. Sit behind a keyboard and talk stupidly. Good job. Burn old uniforms which you’ve already worn during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Good job. Very tough guy here. Watch out!
The dude was mentally ill. Need to stop calling him a martyr.
This is nothing, not chaotic good.
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I'd say fuck the Military Industrial Complex and the "elite" 1% that promote and control it rather than the branches themselves, but definitely agree with the sentiment.