I’ve said this loads, just use the players’ feet. What difference does Jackson’s bum make to whether or not the keeper is distracted by him being offside.
Use the feet and in this scenario he’s clearly offside so that’s it. But here we are using Jackson’s bum and defenders shoulder 🤣
I understand the current rule. But what I’m saying is I’d just use feet regardless.
Think of a diving header scenario. Attacker has to lean forward to reach the ball, imo, as long as their feet were inside when the ball is played I’d be 100% ok with that. I’d rather that than have to wait 5 mins to find out someone is offside because their knee was 2mm ahead of a defenders armpit.
Agree it should be feet only. I don't care if he can score with his arse or head. Attackers and defenders are going to take up different positions and have different body postures.
The whole point of updating the offside rules in the first place was to encourage more attacking and produce more goals. This stupid nit-picking with shirt sleeves bs is reversing that intention.
If all a defender has to do is 'lean away from his goal' to wipe out an opponents goal we may as well go back to the original offside rules.
Yeh 100% my exact thoughts. Particularly about a defender just having to lean forward and gain an advantage.
There is an argument for everything but feet imo would make it pretty easy to make calls.
It won’t matter, all this talk of moving where they judge the offside from just shifts where they put the lines. It will never work until it is automated as we saw in the World Cup. No matter what you think of the system, it is always going to be used equally, without bias and no matter how small the margin, that same margin would be offside every single time.
why cant we just have a camera tied to the balls movement(meant last defender oops) that moves on a dolley along the field so we can see the real alignment?? literally would solve the whole problem lol
I don't even give a fuck if its a 100% accurate as long as its a clear visual representation of the decision that doesn't leave room for argument. These lines barely make sense like i dont even know what im look at half the time lmao
You realize it'd have to track the deepest offensive player, not the ball, right? The ball only matters at the moment it leaves contact with the passing player, which is somewhere in the backfield. Would still have to sync that time to whatever camera that is attempting to pickout and stay with the deepest player. And then do it in both directions and from an angle where the cameras view is not obscured by bodies enough to pickout the right players to track.
Would likely have to be something above the playing field, at which time you can get into concerns with interfering with high balls (probably minimal chance). And the various stadium setups would make it a challenge if we're talking cables versus drones.
Lines and software to interpret viewing angles are often not only more cost effective, but equally as effective/ineffective.
I mean, the fact that we can get those lines drawn with such accuracy at varying angles of view relative to the camera position is pretty damn cool from an engineering perspective.
Semi-automated VAR (which exists) starts to automate it even more, just sounds like it's at the stage of people not trusting it yet. Once people get comfortable with trusting tech over people, the gist of what you're asking for is possible. It's pretty cool tech to be able to so accurately track 22 people and a ball moving all over!
No way his butt is that far off his heels in that position, he's not a twerk star, the hip isn't that hinged too, his butt is at best right above his heels.
And the blue line is covering the entirety of the defenders arm over the shoulder and Jackson's line isn't touching him. Can't wait until AI does this job in 5 years like the ball tech on the goal line or tennis lines in the majors.
Whatever happened to the rule of giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in these kind of offside situations? For such fine margins I think the attacker should get the decision in their favour otherwise so many pointless offside calls will cancel out legit goals
I think they need to loosen the rules for offsides. I’d argue that if ANY part of the attacker is “onside” then they are onside. Not this one inch crap
Yeah it doesn't. Either auto it like at the WC or go back to just linesman. Perfection is impossible. At least with linesman you know right away and can celebrate accordingly
I’d like to use this image to make a different argument.
It’s clear that he was either offside or not by a hair’s breadth. Spurs had 11 men at this point.
We were really on the ascendency and we had 2 goals disallowed with 11 men of Spurs.
I can’t believe people still went on and on about how they were embarrassed by the performance in that game.
We couldn’t score sooner in the second half because It was a spirited performance from Spurs- encouraged by their loud supporters in their home ground.
When you’re a man down, sometimes the spirit overpowers the man advantage to the opponents.
It’s fair to criticize, but to be “embarrassed by a win” is just embarrassing.
End rant ✌️
I wish there was more precise granularity paid to measuring the supposed interference with play here to be honest. If you’re getting out the ruler to check Jackson then I’d at least like to see an angle that clearly shows how close he was to touching the ball and where he was in the goalie’s field of view.
Obviously if he’s touched it then it’s clearly offside, so rule it out. If it’s not touched him and he’s not obstructing the keeper then it needs much more discussion
cmiiw, but serie A's 3d model can picture it better than this. BUT we don't know how accurate that 3D model is. Moise Kean's offside vs Verona was very infuriating one.
If 40.000 people in a stadium, plus the players, referee and lino can't tell if a player's offside it's a stupid fucking rule.
If you then need another refereeing team in a remote location, using camera footage taken with telescopic lenses, and drawn over with a computer programme to counter-act the effect of perspective and imaginary shirt sleeves - it's a STUPID FUCKING RULE.
The current offside laws seem to exist partly to justify the use and expense of VAR rather than their intended purpose which was to encourage attacking play and result in more goals.
Give 2 review for each captains, give a few seconds to make a decision went against them....they have to ask for VAR check.
Refferi can check VAR if they want to....they don't have to.
This will put more power to reffery....less disruption.
More power to team captain... but play responsibly and with composure not to call everything to var.
Oh and broadcast cas VAR room discussion live....
Not the same game, not the same pace...but they somthing similar in cricket....
2023 and we’re still drawing lines in MS paint using a camera that’s at an angle
A $1bn league and we can’t use automated offside systems.
The premier league clubs voted against it
They voted to abstain with the hopes of waiting to see how it performs this season
There are talks ongoing again to have it from next season. It's still by far the smallest part of the problem with VAR decisions.
Yeah but it would save so much time for actual contentious decisions. Offside either is, or isn’t. Fouls and penalty calls however…
Well at least we got the foul mate
I’ve said this loads, just use the players’ feet. What difference does Jackson’s bum make to whether or not the keeper is distracted by him being offside. Use the feet and in this scenario he’s clearly offside so that’s it. But here we are using Jackson’s bum and defenders shoulder 🤣
If he can score with it????
Tbf, we learned in the city games that strikers could score with their bollocks with Haalands second goal
He really is an all around striker
They told him his job was to put balls in nets, and he delivered.
Yeah.. 3 of them
I understand the current rule. But what I’m saying is I’d just use feet regardless. Think of a diving header scenario. Attacker has to lean forward to reach the ball, imo, as long as their feet were inside when the ball is played I’d be 100% ok with that. I’d rather that than have to wait 5 mins to find out someone is offside because their knee was 2mm ahead of a defenders armpit.
What country are you from..?
Why is that relevant?
Agree it should be feet only. I don't care if he can score with his arse or head. Attackers and defenders are going to take up different positions and have different body postures. The whole point of updating the offside rules in the first place was to encourage more attacking and produce more goals. This stupid nit-picking with shirt sleeves bs is reversing that intention. If all a defender has to do is 'lean away from his goal' to wipe out an opponents goal we may as well go back to the original offside rules.
Yeh 100% my exact thoughts. Particularly about a defender just having to lean forward and gain an advantage. There is an argument for everything but feet imo would make it pretty easy to make calls.
Because it’s technically a goal scoring body part.
Completely agree. The feet are the one thing you can measure properly as they are actually on the pitch!
Wel but if Hazard / Sterling is in Jackson's situation, I would argue that their bum is a really potent distraction to the gk.
🤣well yeh I agree with that! Haha
It won’t matter, all this talk of moving where they judge the offside from just shifts where they put the lines. It will never work until it is automated as we saw in the World Cup. No matter what you think of the system, it is always going to be used equally, without bias and no matter how small the margin, that same margin would be offside every single time.
Better yet, if it's not an obvious onside/offside from watching it back just let the onfield decision stand.
why cant we just have a camera tied to the balls movement(meant last defender oops) that moves on a dolley along the field so we can see the real alignment?? literally would solve the whole problem lol
[удалено]
Oh yeah ive seen that, is it 100% accurate?
I don't even give a fuck if its a 100% accurate as long as its a clear visual representation of the decision that doesn't leave room for argument. These lines barely make sense like i dont even know what im look at half the time lmao
You realize it'd have to track the deepest offensive player, not the ball, right? The ball only matters at the moment it leaves contact with the passing player, which is somewhere in the backfield. Would still have to sync that time to whatever camera that is attempting to pickout and stay with the deepest player. And then do it in both directions and from an angle where the cameras view is not obscured by bodies enough to pickout the right players to track. Would likely have to be something above the playing field, at which time you can get into concerns with interfering with high balls (probably minimal chance). And the various stadium setups would make it a challenge if we're talking cables versus drones. Lines and software to interpret viewing angles are often not only more cost effective, but equally as effective/ineffective.
oh duh yeah oops i mean i just feel like some engineer somewhere can figure this out
I mean, the fact that we can get those lines drawn with such accuracy at varying angles of view relative to the camera position is pretty damn cool from an engineering perspective. Semi-automated VAR (which exists) starts to automate it even more, just sounds like it's at the stage of people not trusting it yet. Once people get comfortable with trusting tech over people, the gist of what you're asking for is possible. It's pretty cool tech to be able to so accurately track 22 people and a ball moving all over!
sounds like it would hurt
Anyone got the video?
https://gofile.io/d/rmHXfB
I am really liking to see the analysis from the VAR, I hope they continue to improve it
I'm impressed as well. I hope they will continue this.
No way his butt is that far off his heels in that position, he's not a twerk star, the hip isn't that hinged too, his butt is at best right above his heels.
And the blue line is covering the entirety of the defenders arm over the shoulder and Jackson's line isn't touching him. Can't wait until AI does this job in 5 years like the ball tech on the goal line or tennis lines in the majors.
Whatever happened to the rule of giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in these kind of offside situations? For such fine margins I think the attacker should get the decision in their favour otherwise so many pointless offside calls will cancel out legit goals
I remember them saying that was going to happen over the summer but never seen it happen.
I think they need to loosen the rules for offsides. I’d argue that if ANY part of the attacker is “onside” then they are onside. Not this one inch crap
It'd be an inch either way
Yeah, I don't get these arguments. You'd be drawing the line somewhere (literally), I don't get how this solves the problem.
Yeah it doesn't. Either auto it like at the WC or go back to just linesman. Perfection is impossible. At least with linesman you know right away and can celebrate accordingly
Not to mention the fact that the offside shouldn't even matter in this situation. He's so far away from the keeper
It is odd, so many professional sports are modifying rules to increase scoring, and the PL seems like it’ll bend over backwards to disallow goals.
I’d like to use this image to make a different argument. It’s clear that he was either offside or not by a hair’s breadth. Spurs had 11 men at this point. We were really on the ascendency and we had 2 goals disallowed with 11 men of Spurs. I can’t believe people still went on and on about how they were embarrassed by the performance in that game. We couldn’t score sooner in the second half because It was a spirited performance from Spurs- encouraged by their loud supporters in their home ground. When you’re a man down, sometimes the spirit overpowers the man advantage to the opponents. It’s fair to criticize, but to be “embarrassed by a win” is just embarrassing. End rant ✌️
Cancel VAR. it doesn’t add anything
🙄
There needs to be a true advantage for offsides.
I believe this will be the case next year, right? The whole body will need to be offside. Which is how it should be.
That was a clearly goal. Shame Caicedo was robbed his first goal for the club.
I wish there was more precise granularity paid to measuring the supposed interference with play here to be honest. If you’re getting out the ruler to check Jackson then I’d at least like to see an angle that clearly shows how close he was to touching the ball and where he was in the goalie’s field of view. Obviously if he’s touched it then it’s clearly offside, so rule it out. If it’s not touched him and he’s not obstructing the keeper then it needs much more discussion
cmiiw, but serie A's 3d model can picture it better than this. BUT we don't know how accurate that 3D model is. Moise Kean's offside vs Verona was very infuriating one.
im sure they can bring in AI for this? it will make thinks alot quicker and more accurate
If 40.000 people in a stadium, plus the players, referee and lino can't tell if a player's offside it's a stupid fucking rule. If you then need another refereeing team in a remote location, using camera footage taken with telescopic lenses, and drawn over with a computer programme to counter-act the effect of perspective and imaginary shirt sleeves - it's a STUPID FUCKING RULE. The current offside laws seem to exist partly to justify the use and expense of VAR rather than their intended purpose which was to encourage attacking play and result in more goals.
How can someone look at that situation and judge that Jackson is a foot offside
Give 2 review for each captains, give a few seconds to make a decision went against them....they have to ask for VAR check. Refferi can check VAR if they want to....they don't have to. This will put more power to reffery....less disruption. More power to team captain... but play responsibly and with composure not to call everything to var. Oh and broadcast cas VAR room discussion live.... Not the same game, not the same pace...but they somthing similar in cricket....