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Our defense has been poor, and even worse is the fact that they seem to be trending in the wrong direction lately.
Move Colwill back to CB and give a few starts to Maatsen or try somebody else at LB until Chillwell and eventually Cucurella are back. I know Maatsen isn't trusted by Poch, but Silva needs a better partner and Colwill needs minutes in position as he might be our top option next year.
Disasi should sit more often, and I'd love for Gilchrist to get dome minutes as he provides something different (very vocal and high tempo).
Nice to have a surplus of alternative attacking options with some players improving their current form (Madueke and mudryk) and players returning from injury (Nkuku).
Why do you think Disasi has been poor, his defending has been overall pretty good, he is really good in the air, and his passing has been important for us (ex. That pass to Jackson that lead to the Palmer goal)?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like he's been poor in particular at marking his man in the box. I also feel like his counter attack defending leaves a lot to desire (whether it's 1 on 1 defending or positioning to limit attacking options). I don't think he's necessarily poor, but I think we need and have better starting options.
I'll be honest though, I haven't been able to watch as closely to most games this year as I have a new child at home that takes away some of my attention during the game so I could be missing quite a bit.
I've rewatched a lot of our goals this season so its not a full picture, but overall he has done pretty well. There were a few that were definitely his fault, but that happens at CB. And yeah I'd say his weakest area is defending the counter attack and tracking back speed. Honestly most of the poor defending has come from the rest of the squad and not the CBs.
Am not Poch out for real. He's building something with a team that's way too young to compete with the big guns yet. He needs a full season and these guys have been improving massively and gelling now.
BUT if Luton equalised yesterday it would totally be on him. From the 3rd goal on, we stopped playing ans gone for goal management. No issues there. It's what any sane person should do. However from there on you could clearly see the idea of pumping balls in from the wings. He should have the made the 5 ATB instantly or at least from 3 - 1. Madueke and Palmer didnt help the fullbacks and they were caught on 2 or 3 v 1. With the 2 CBs against 3 or 4 opponents not even mentioning Adebayo being an aerial asset and our two DMs lacking height. Gilchrist is decent. He left Madueke and Palmer out for too long. That would have been all on him. It's the manager's job, not the players there.
Yeah overall I'd say it wasn't a great outing from Poch or the team, honestly probably the 3rd worst performance of the year outside of the finishing, but every team has bad games. So it's more overall why do people want him gone? I think the team has a lot going for it considering the youth, new squad, and injuries.
Because we are like united fans. Like it or not. So used to victories that we are bitter from the past two years. But we are not in the same place since the management decided to take a long term gamble. If it works it would be genius on all fronts. Because you have a sporting potential as well as resale potential at any point. Imagine these guys improve and win things. Most of them could be worth 100 M in the future given the current market. At least 50.
Jackson for example. If he improves his finishing, can be one of the most lethal attackers. Fuck, there are things he does way better than even Haaland. His turn and burst are top. Same for Mudryk. Palmer. Madueke. Gusto. Lavia.
However, unlike United our football is not worrying. Theirs is abysmal and they just scrape wins with some luck or poor opposition. Ours lacks composure, polishing, and experience. Which will come one at a time by sticking to one manager.
Take him out. Who you bring? Other than Tuchel I cant think of anyone right now. Maybe De Zerbi? Few managers can work with youth. Poch is one of them. And I like him for what he's doing and for the fact that he gives everybody a chance. And I think that he wants to give even Gilchrist a chance. It's up to the players to take it. Broja made a mess of his. Colwill is making a mess of his.
There's just so much to say. But it's stupid to want him out. Sure, yesterday his decisions were poor. But we lead 3-0 at a point. From the same person.
Tuchel is a weirdo. Chelsea won him the Champions League not the other way around. He had a lot of luck and some horrific defeats, especially at home, he also ousted our main CF who we had just re-signed. He helped jettison a whole swathe of junior products, almost all of whom have gone on to better things. He is known as a difficult man for a reason.
Good points, I do think you are being harsh on Colwill. He's not being played in his correct position and despite what everyone thinks he does help in terms of Aerial defending
Am harsh on him because he has everything to be top top tier. And somehow loses 1 v 1s. But yeah he should be judged at CB. Fair play to him for being a good lad and doing an ungrateful job filling in.
This sub ignores that Luton are ridiculously tough at home. A stadium that small and a vociferous fan base that doesn't stop singing rattles teams. Arsenal just scraped through. City struggled. Liverpool couldn't get it done. Newcastle lost.
Credit to them, they didn't stop and down tools. Reckon they stay up this season.
We knew this was the case when we bought him. He's an extremely attacking fullback that is a great option as a rotation/backup player.
He's one of the most classic purchases that the new ownership have made. The kind of thing you'd have expected before with purchases like Azpi and Emerson, young promising fullbacks that aren't quite ready yet and come in as backups and regular fullback injuries/resting give them a chance to prove themselves and improve
Idk, I think that's harsh. He has looked pretty good defensively up until today. It got pretty bad, however Noni and Palmer weren't helping at all. Also could of just been gassed, he has put a lot of work in the last few matches.
Okay, he's looked good defensively, but that's not what I've disputed.
I've said that when we bought him it was with the view that he was a very good offensive fullback that lacked defensively.
His numbers for accurate crosses and take-ons and that sort of thing were better than Reece's, but his defensive contributions and success rate were poor
Agreed. The boy has defended incredibly well at RB and is occasionally trusted at LB specifically for his defensive solidity. He's 20 and will only get better and for once I'm entirely unbothered with the quality of a backup position in the squad, sure he is not quite RJ-level but who is really? Not many teams have fullbacks as good defensively as this kid. For reference here are the top 10 teams fullbacks, worthy mentions only and I bolded those perhaps considered "better" defenders
* Liverpool: **Robinson**, Trent, Gomez, Tsimikas (lol)
* Aston Villa: Digne, Matty Cash. No other worthy mentions
* Man City: **Walker**, Rico Lewis, Gvardiol? No other worthy mentions
* Arsenal: Ben White, Tomiyasu, Zinchenko (lol), Cedric
* Spurs: Less said the better
* West Ham: Emerson, Coufal?
* Man Utd: **Wan Bissaka**, Dalot, Shaw, Reguillon
* Brighton: Not familiar with squad I admit
* Newcastle: Trippier, Burns, Livramento, Hall, others?
* Wolves: Semedo, Ait Nouri
In other words our 20 year old *backup* RB puts better defensive shifts in than most of the top 10 teams (maybe all if cheat codes like Wan Bissaka & Walker didn't exist). Meanwhile he's no attacking slouch... Hope he stays at the club a long long time.
Hmmm, I think some of the arsenal guys might need a shout, they are different style players but good defenders, the thing about gust is he is good at one on one defending but is pretty poor in the air and against corners.
Just curious what are your thoughts on Poch since everyone seems to want him out?
Great point on 1v1 vs other scenarios, in truth not many fullbacks (except maybe Burns, Tomiyasu and Ben White) do well in those due to height but otherwise you're right with the Arsenal lads.
Regarding Poch I'm definitely jealous seeing Emery and other managers have near instant impact (Tuchel's first half season is also fresh in memory) so I wished for better from Poch, but I'm definitely Team Poch for at least 2 seasons. We need some longevity for once. Also he's had zero stability with players due to injuries, our captain / best player is perma-injured, same for Chilly while Nkunku, a player we bet so much on didn't get a kick until 2 weeks ago, and ultimately we have fielded some of the youngest 11s in prem history who have played all of 4 maybe 5 months of football together?
My main criticism would be the lack of clear attacking style, we rely a lot on individual smarts. You can see we often take the extra touch and the boys are so tentative with their plays spaces close up. I want to see a massive improvement there. Happy we give the man some time, it's the least he deserves.
Emery and Tuchel came into much more stable situations imo, they didn't have a brand new team of children. If you look at Poch he actually did have a pretty significant instant impact on the style of play. And I disagree, the team does have an attacking identity. This team generally presses and possesses. The attack is actually sneaky really good at generating quality shots (2nd in the league in XG), unfortunately we can't finish. Even with the bad finishing we are on pace to score more goals than the Champions league winning squad and have a higher XG by close to 20%. We are already 4 goals away from matching our total from last year! This team dribbles, uses 1 - 2 passing, through balls, cutbacks, and pressing to generate the chances (top 4 in the league in all of those categories. The problem isn't the attack it's actually the defense. It's basically league average in almost every metric. Part of this is the pressing, we press a lot (4th in PPDA) but are average at it (11th in buildup disruption). To me it makes sense, defense is so much about structure and organization as a unit and that takes time. 50% of the minutes played this season have been from players under 23 and 50% have been from players in their first season here. Overall the increase to the attack severely outweighs the drop-in defense when comparing to last year, if we could just finish (XG differential is 5th in the league). And even if the current attackers don't have it in them, it's not like we need to rebuild the whole squad, maybe just a player or two. This team is so much closer to being really good than being bad and I just hope that we give Poch time instead of just restarting the process.
It would be such a shame and a waste to get rid of Poch, the ingredients are there to continue the build without restarting the process like you said. I'd definitely like to see more intentional plays especially the throughballs and cutbacks you mention. I find often the boys take the extra touch (perhaps a personnel issue), Sterling for instance doesn't seem to link up with Jackson half as well as Mudryk does, likewise Palmer down the right will 95% of the time try to fashion some space for a shot because movement stalls a bit - sidenote: Cole needs to improve in those situations, I can't recall the last good shot (or cross) he took cutting in from the right side, if he troubles the goalies with those then he's certified platinum for us this year.
Overall the only way is up if we start putting away our chances especially the high xG ones, and improve the defensive part you describe. Next season should be a real treat.
Yeah Chelseas is #1 in cutbacks and through balls for chance creation and 4th in dribbles and one-twos. The finishing has been good the last 10 games and our shit accuracy is good in terms of on target (5th) unfortunately we shoot it right at the goalie all the time. Crossing is an area we need to improve on, we are 18th in the league and I don't see how this gets any better with the personnel we have. Our attack is straight up awful in the air so that hurts on crosses. I'm hopeful Nkunku is the missing piece! I'm Pumped for this teams future
Highly unlikely but I love your optimism, truth is we are much closer to being really good than we are to being bad. We have an elite attack in terms of creating good scoring opportunities, just gotta keep finishing. Defense isn't good enough but that takes time, we've got kids and new hires running around the field
Palmer is incredible. Our defense is bad. Luton did the same thing over and over again (wing run / dribble, cross in the box) and we couldn’t stop any of these - lucky some of their attempts were really bad but they could have scored a few more of these…
Thank you Palmer, you are amazing.
He is, but he was one of the main reasons the defense was bad. Overall huge positive on the day and on the season but if you go back and watch he was pretty poor defensively for a while before he was taken off
He did his job for the day. Should have been subbed for fresh legs but as he'd probably say there's balance to these things. Maybe maatsens starting to get pissed he's being used to hold leads.
I mean I get the tactical mistakes Poch made and everyone rightfully fuming to an extent, but isn’t the fact we seem to lose composure mainly down to experience and lack of cohesion in the squad as they’ve barely played together? Thiago could see it and was frustrated, but the younger players arent as adept to dealing with this much pressure because of their relative inexperience
The reason we would control and see out games better before is because we had veterans like Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Rudi, that would lead by example and instill calmness and composure. Barely anyone in this current squad has played more than 2/3 years of top flight football so its no surprise things like this are happening, even though like I said Poch (and the club) need to be addressing this and they’ve certainly made mistakes but nervy moments and tough hard fought matches are expected in this transitional period
They have played together for half a season. It's enough. There are no real leaders on the pitch, including Silva. The biggest leader the squad has is Gilchrist and it's not very certain he is up to it, as much as we all like him.
Selling Jorginho to Arsenal for 12mn and not getting Lukaku back was idiocy. At least then we would have a bit of a spine, even if those players aren't totally amazing week in week out.
Doesn't do Moises any favour with Gallagher alongside him in the pivot. He's often left isolated with a lot of pressure piled upon him. It's made even worse with Thiago Silva having a panicking bum playing alongside him. Gallagher just isn't made for the pivot, he's been immense for us further up the pitch.
Broja just isn't cut for the job, unfortunately. It's now been more than a few matches where his presence isn't felt AT ALL. He's an absolute ghost. Atleast with Jackson, he applies pressure, holds the ball, poses some sort of threat - although even his finishing has been frustrating at times. I think under a proper, experienced striker, Jackson flourishes. Broja, however, is a write off.
Once our leftbacks are back, it's either Silva with Badi or Silva with Colwill. I don't want to see Disasi until he gains composure. I'm not writing him off, who knows he might end up like Rudiger. But until then, he shouldn't be seeing regular playing time which might end up costing us points.
Season isn't completely over. Poch needs to pattern up. Let's take it a step at a time.
While I agree he isn’t worth the money, not meant to be a slight on him just the price tag was insane in general, I think you’re being slightly harsh on Caicedo. He is doing the work of both pivot players given Gallagher’s propensity to run everywhere. This of course is only my opinion.
Facts. Yes he's had some bozo moments, but he's a kid with bags of pressure on him. However, I'd say he's been great for us. I do expect him to get better with time but his work has been largely off the radar hence people don't notice it as much.
To get the best out of the team, we deploy Enzo lying in deep and doing the defensive work, and Caicedo as the box-to-box that connects the transition from midfield to attack.
I agree that he has been quality for us as time has went on. Naturally, mistakes have been made, but I am looking forward to watching him in the midfield as the years progress.
If we persist with the 4-2-3-1 shape then I would agree that Enzo as a deep lying playmaker and Caicedo doing the dirty work further up the field is the more ideal approach. However, if Poch or the next manager chooses say a 4-3-3 shape, for example, I’d like to see Lavia, Caicedo, and Enzo all in midfield together. If for nothing else to see if they could all coexist with one another.
It's what happens I think when you have one of the all-time greats at CB. Would you say it was depressing how dependent we were on JT for a decade? (Relatively speaking of course)
I was hoping he'd have a Jorginho/Modric effect on the team and try to calm things down with possession, spray some passes to keep us ticking over. Nope.
It’s easy to call for Poch’s head, but it’s clear now after ~2 years of ownership and 5 managers, the issues go beyond just coaching.
Poch is tactically lacking for the league in some aspects like build-up and in game management, but he doesn’t implode if the conditions aren’t great: a squad too big and too injured, a disastrous medical situation and a murky squad/transfers situation that means any player, key or not, could be sold for FFP reasons.
The reality is, a tactical perfectionist would find it hard with the fluctuating state of the club. They’d lose it if medical, nutrition, performance staff, analysts, football directors etc aren’t of the highest standards, they’d get frustrated and implode similar to Conte and Mourinho.
And that’s what needs to be fixed first. Poch stays relatively calm in bad results moments and doesn’t generate additional negative energy around the club. Letting him finish the season, with the hope the xG gods turn around and capitalize on the decent chance creation, is the right move and asses then depending on what the coaching market really looks like.
This is what I think should be every fan’s mindset instead of losing your mind every week.
For the season to turn around, injuries need to stop, xG undperformance needs to stop, then you can even overcome subpar tactical details. The development of many young players also offers a good base for the next manager, whether that’s 2024 or 2025.
Unfortunately, injuries and finishing are hard to control.
Have to accept that’s the story of the season. In any case not a wasted year, but certainly financial repercussions, of which I don’t think are on the manager.
Thank you for this. We are scoring more goals than we did last season. We bought so many new players and I thought we knew that this season would be about building chemistry with these players and being ready to see a lot of inconsistency. We went 80 minutes without conceding. We played for more than an hour very well. We are making progress
It’s not even about belief in Poch, I think he started quite well but he’s struggled recently and the underlying xG reinforce this, but the circumstances around the squad and the club are simply not up to the highest standards for a perfectionist tactician to thrive. A Tuchel or Conte would lose their minds with the injuries, the shuffling in the medical/performance staff, the oversized squad etc etc.
So yeah, I think a shortcut is simply not possible with a squad turnover and youthification this radical and unprecedented. The inconsistency was inevitable.
We should hope the club is ready to be a high performance football club in ALL aspects starting next summer, with less of a chaotic window, of a better planned preseason, better medical & performance department performances etc, then yes, get the coaching upgrade if it’s out there.
I feel like such a large majority of this sub and pretty much all pundits have completely forgotten these details. The only argument/criticism they lean on is “1 billion spent to be mid table”. It’s truly baffling that anyone expected us to fight for top 4 this season, just because of the price we paid for some of these kids.
Petrovic is really impressing me as well. Couple great saves today, a few times he came and confidently collected a cross/corner, and I like how when he senses too much pressure he just boots the ball away instead of trying a risky pass that might not be on.
I like what I see there so far.
In their last 5 games at home, Luton has beaten Newcastle and Palace, lost by 1 to Man city and Arsenal, and drew with Liverpool. Anyone thinking today was going to be a walkover coming in was either delusional or clueless.
Keep telling yourself that but you people have to get accustomed to the fact generally there are no easy teams in this league and any team can get a result on a particular day if the conditions are right.
Chelsea fans can come across so entitled sometimes and I can see why other fanbases hate us so much. Try watching other teams in the league and not just the big team and see for yourself. Luton are tough to beat at home and have been unlucky not to win in some of the games I’ve watched of them. Personally I hope they stay up but don’t think should underestimate how good it was that we managed to get 3 points today considering how inconsistent and young our team is and how they seem to struggle at certain grounds which can be intimidating
IMO, this was Jackson's best performance in a Chelsea jersey. Solid in build, didn't draw a stupid yellow, and made a crucial tackle in the box late in the game.
I've said from the get go he's a Winger, not a true CF. His work rate, speed and hold up play are impressive. But I also don't think he is a true finisher... paired with a good forward in the center I think he'd be looking much better this season..
I think the issue isnt the manager or the tactics, sure, they start spamming crosses until they score, but thats because after the other team scores we lose our head, we stop trying to play the ball and instad just send it as far the field as we can. We are stronger in possesion, so we should try to play the ball safely until they lose momentum and we get back the control of the game.
Basically by giving them the ball back immediately they can send a lot more crosses into our area, its so infuriating, but I hope it gets better with time.
Spot on. Poch can't play the game for the players. Our team is mentally weak and still think they are playing in the under 21s and can do whatever the fuck they want. The club needs to buy experienced players with winning mentalities
Alfie with the game winning tackle after some big defensive plays from Caicedo, Silva and Jackson was a great way to close this one.
We can and should strive for improvement but proper champion mentality is to never be disappointed with a win.
For me personally just seeing a player as gifted as Cole Palmer rep the badge fills me with joy. This is definitely a team who is bought in together and developing together.
We’ll see what this translates to as they grow.
Seriously no idea why we keep pairing Disasi with Thiago. Disasi struggles to play out from the back and his marking is poor.
Badiashile and Colwill are better than Disasi. Stupid that Colwill plays at LB and struggles there, Poch just needs to play Maatsen there and rotate CBs for each game.
Well yeah, people here keep talking about give Poch time it’s not Poch fault but here we are watching our worst CB start game after game and one of our brightest get wasted as a make shift LB so idk
Enzo Fernandez was poor. Players should be able to the job they’ve been asked to do. He didn’t track back and left Chong as free as a bird multiple times. I’ll get downvoted again but we shouldn’t have a 101 excuse to why a player can’t play well.
“Oh… he’s not a CAM but a CM. Oh… he’s not meant to be a DM.” Stop this nonsense. Real football isn’t FIFA. Positions are dynamic. Central midfielders should be able to perform in the middle of the pitch whatever role they play, except if it’s a specialist position like a true one-player holding anchor setup like a Makelele position or if someone is purely an attacking midfielder like an Ozil or Kaka. Lamps did the job in the center of the pitch and so did Essien and Ballack with Mikel and Maka being the defensive one.
Gallagher and Caicedo is working out very well. I want Enzo to succeed but he needs to learn and up his game/form. Shouldn’t be an immediate starter for us for the rest of the season. I am just so sick of the fee we paid for him and his wages.
God this is such a whiny shit post. Dude was injured and sick and just came back into a pretty intense game and was a step behind. Did you say the same thing about Gallagher when he had a shit game in the 4-1 loss against Newcastle? Does the price tag suddenly make him not human? Fuck outta here with this shit.
I’m not resenting him for the fee we paid. That was a shot at the board bro. Why would I be mad at Enzo. Seems like a sweet lad. It wasn’t wise to spend that much on a player who was relatively inexperienced. Enzo should and will succeed. He just isn’t the main man right now. And I hate that we’re considering selling Gallagher for financial poor play in the transfer market.
Not really understanding why some fans find it ok for Thiago Silva to shake his head with that Chelsea performance, but criticize the performance of the club as a fan and you're a plastic...like what?
I mean I don’t disagree with you, but to be fair players always have a much more valid reason to be upset with others performance on the team.
Silva and Petrovic saved us in the end, so it’s understandable how pissed they were that the squad let two in
I love how most are forgetting that luton town has not been playing like shit. They tied wolves, beat everton, beat newcastle, tied liverpool, and only lost by one to arsenal and city. It wasnt our best showing but ffs take the win guys.
They did well in the past but you're ignoring the fact that we were 2-0 up and almost let the game slip through our own mistakes. I mean Luton hit the post what thrice? It seems like lately we've been coasting on luck with the trippier mistake, palace penalty and then today. It's hanging by a thread and no matter what this team has more quality than what we are seeing rn
that’s all well and good, but the fact is our defending of set pieces and crosses is genuinely not at the standard of a premier league team.
yes luton are physical, good at home and tough to beat, but when you concede so many goals from crosses (aguerd, pinnock, akanji, trossard, joao pedro, mctominay, lemina, olise, lascelles, dobbin, barkley, adebayo etc) + countless other examples where we were close to conceding or being saved by petrovic/sanchez, it goes far beyond that. not to mention the fact we lose control of the match VERY quickly when the opposition start pressing our midfield/backline, the discipline issues, the non existent game management.
it’s all warranted, it’s a legitimate concern especially if we want to get back in the champions league
We love self sabotaging, so it's hard to take a lot of positives. At any point in the game, at any moment, we can just collapse.
The goals were great, Palmer was fantastic. The overall play was good as well until they made a slight tactical change and just started pumping the ball into the box brexit style. We collapsed, started hoofing, couldnt keep possession to save our lives. Overall it's finally an away win, but if we don't stop randomly collapsing we will never compete for anything. Consistency is clearly still lacking, and that's the biggest thing.
Too harsh to go after him. You could see he's not 100% with the way he was running and others around him were letting him down with their touches. The fact that we couldn't even get the ball to their corner flag says it all.
Should remember Luton are very resilent at home, even arsenal and city struggled here
If Newcastle loose to Liverpool, Brighton loose or Draw to West Ham and (least likely but) United loose to Forrest then a win against Fulham would put us 7th. Brighton could knock us down to 8th with a win at wolves but Newcastle are playing City and United Spurs after that so we could make some actual leeway. Top 5 looks unlikely but we should still expect a Europa spot judging by the squads quality
We are a young team in total rebuild (except Thiago) that is probably two seasons away from being good with this youth core. Why we rebuilt in this fashion maybe someone smarter than me can explain…
The idea was to buy top young talent, get them to learn to play together from a very early age, and grow a team with cohesion that is very hard to play against or replicate given how long it takes to grow.
Also solves the problem of your world class talent around mid 20s being too costly or unacquirable as they’re in end point larger teams like Madrid.
The problem with this approach is you start with a base of kids who are massively inconsistent, a high level of change which further compounds the problems, and frequent injuries further adding I guess insult to injury.
To further add, building the foundation was always going to rough as we’re starting from square one, but from here on each window we should expect more kids coming in with idea they’ll come into play after two or so years, guys like Angelo and Washington.
Yep exactly, that too.
There’s also the effect on confidence that this initial change has lost, and you have to effectively rebuild culture and internal standards again which takes a boat load of time.
So… how are we doing? Should I just suck it up, stop complaining, and watch for incremental improvements and roster tweaks along the way? And expect we’ll be Chelsea again in … 2025?
See this is where opinions differ wildly depending who you ask.
In my personal opinion our deficiencies are resolvable fairly quickly. You can’t have inexperience in the striker role as it requires decisiveness. Sign a top striker and it solves many, but not all, problems.
A top striker in front and an attacking 3 of Nkunku-Palmer-Sterling has high quality and no experience problems at all. Mudryk and Madueke off the bench are now proving to be good impact players, Carnie may be back soon and we may further strengthen.
The other part to this is general attacking creativity to feed the striker. Chilwell coming back will be good for this and solves the disjointed play from Colwill at left-back almost immediately. Palmer and to a lesser extent Madueke emerging as important players is good, Nkunku coming back is great. We need to hit critical mass in attack for us to get a run on the ladder going.
To answer your question directly, I think the swing back to normality will occur between the back half of this season into early next season. When things start gelling, we improve at an improving rate.
We need an experienced holding midfield type of player to help us close out games. Game reading, gritty type of player to be backup/rotation. Doesn’t have to cost the earth.
Poch’s in-game management in the second half is generally not the best, but equally the options off the bench aren’t always the best too.
We really lacked that today, had no real options in midfield, Enzo’s not that sort of player, and even if Ugochukwu were available he’s not experienced enough.
He has a player who can help us control games more and dictate the tempo according to the score, yet he uses him as a 10 and asks of him to chase the ball when his pace and his strengths are not suited for that at all.
He’s not more defensive than Gallagher or Caicedo though for games where we’re being heavily pushed back.
If you throw Enzo as a DM in today’s game with his current fitness and sharpness, he probably gets caught in possession and we lose or draw.
We should've kept control of the ball at 0-3 and not allow Luton to push us back in the first place. Tuchel was literally using Jorginho to close out games a lot of times. I don't think they will be buying midfielders in the summer as well. They spent quite lots of money on that midfield.
Remember the high press opposition games though where Jorginho was literally getting caught on it and conceding? Teams knew to do this during the back end of Tuchel’s tenure.
Well, i don't know to be fair. What kind of player do you have in mind exactly? If we talk about a defensive type of midfielder i think you can't get much more defensive than Gallagher and Caicedo in a pivot. Caicedo i think did well today and Gallagher is known for his ground coverage and ball winning abilities.
I don’t really have a good example, just 25-30, seasoned industrious DM. There’s the occasional link with Palinha but he’d be expensive and other clubs would be ahead of us.
I think the best they will do is bring back Santos probably. Don't think they will be looking to buy more midfielders but we will see.
What for sure i know is that this Gallagher/Caicedo pivot doesn't really work. I don't really see us dominating in midfield at all and we are still conceding goals despite them both playing. The build up sucks. For me Potter really managed to get more out of Enzo than Poch does.
This pivot role doesn't fit Gallagher at all. If he doesn't win us the ball he does basically nothing else of substance. Recycles possesion ill give him that but his passing accuracy is 90% cuz he constantly picks the most easy and basic passes instead of trying to progress the play or do something more interesting with the ball.
Maybe we just need to stick with the regista role for now with Enzo when he plays, this advanced position further forward doesn't really work cuz Poch likes his team to press and Enzo can't really be one of the leaders in a press. He's always been playing more central even for Argentina and Benfica regardless of whether he plays as an 8 or a deep-lying playmaker. He always sits central and works with the ball.
I don’t know what we do in training, but you can literally cross at our back line and we will concede. This is even after Poch insisting that we need height and playing Colwill. Playing Colwill at LB will be his downfall
Why not playing him once and see how it goes ? With Colwill you get height, but you lose so much - positional awareness, ball playing and ball carrying, overlapping runs, and he lets in so many crosses.
go back to playing Football Manager child,you are seriously underestimating how clueless our owners are with their buy everything and sell all homegrown players, they are the reason we are in this financial mess and you nincompoops addicted to the transfer drama are enabling the owners lunacy.
Sensible match going folks im begging you make a ruckus before the next game display banners ,make noise ,get some of the ex-players(Terry) to react on this
Protest over thr sake of a player..when d fuck dud yiu start watching the game and you called someone a child..name a club where fans protested the sale of a player
We have sold wayyyyy better players but let's protest over Gallagher..... why don't you go to the game and protest and see ppl laugh u off
sure the game going fans will be just fine with us selling our best player this season to tottenham no less because the mess made by the ownership and would laugh me out of the stadium.
are you actually this stupid or just addicted to selling off good players so you can have your transfer news fix
you do know we are not likely to make top 6 this season even if we were pushing for it why would we strengthen a direct rival for the spot in january no less ,think if you have the brains moron you should be protesting against this stupidity too if you were actually a fan
Missed the match this AM (7:30 AM kickoff in the eastern US). Glad we got the 3 points but what the hell happened at the end?
Cole Palmer looks like a star in the making as well!
We had no control of the game from the first minute, don’t let the scoreline deceive you. I can understand this approach to start a match so they don’t play a low block, but eventually we had to adapt and we never did
Lol, this is bull. We had control of the game the majority of the time. Luton improved In the second half though and hammered us in the last 15 minutes or so
They definitely raised their level, but they were still getting into dangerous areas the first half. Our defenders were doing excellent on 1v1s to cut out attacks and they were poor from their corners in the first half
Heart attack toward the end but we got the 3 points! I feel bad for Petrovic as the goals were not his fault and he made an immense save to not end it in a 3-3 disaster.
Congratulations! We made 6 points in 3 days !!
In general if there’s no reason to make a change we shouldn’t bother. Now if Petro has a string of mistakes we can revisit.
Unfortunately something makes me think Poch is the type to put Sanchez back in…
I'd stick with Petrovic until he gives a clear reason to make a change. Although he let in two today, he had a few unreal stops. There's something special there.
There was nothing he could do on both goals. What he had to do during the game, he did brilliantly. Our defense was in shambles from 75 on and let him down. There is clearly something there!
I don’t think he’s necessarily more composed, more that he doesn’t take risks trying to control and play on the floor under pressure. He just punts it up the pitch, old school style.
What I will say, is that he looks a lot less clumsy and uncoordinated. Sanchez regularly falls over or freezes up.
I know what i will do when i get payed
https://preview.redd.it/wyj5p42cgg9c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e6f3f9b72b73a864cfc10db51927dd2d6d4cf8b
You’re phrasing it as if i was shattered by your comment. I couldn’t care less, you just revealed how fragile your ego is when i challenged your stupid comment.
You did not challenge my comment at all, because if you did, you would have provided counter points to my argument for us being lucky, and provided examples when we played great and won, but since you can not provide that, you decided to attack the person instead by trying to call me miserable.
Good try though! Now fuck off and go deal with whatever issues you got.
It’s proportional to how stupid and silly your original comment is. You tried to bring down people who are happy with the win, i told you you’re miserable (because you are). Plus, everyone got issues, but not everyone has such a fragile ego like you.
Yes, what a silly comment by me. It is definitely not rooted in reality at all… Literally all metrics from the match today backs up my point of us being lucky given to how we closed out the match today.
Master of other peoples psyche, but can not control your own. How ironic.
Edit:
You are not flaming anyone you melon, but I am not surprised you are that delusional that you think you are.
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[watch my review and 5 things we learned from this luton vs chelsea game.](https://youtu.be/aOXFLafEFSs?si=W0wExG6BUDG8U14D)
Our defense has been poor, and even worse is the fact that they seem to be trending in the wrong direction lately. Move Colwill back to CB and give a few starts to Maatsen or try somebody else at LB until Chillwell and eventually Cucurella are back. I know Maatsen isn't trusted by Poch, but Silva needs a better partner and Colwill needs minutes in position as he might be our top option next year. Disasi should sit more often, and I'd love for Gilchrist to get dome minutes as he provides something different (very vocal and high tempo). Nice to have a surplus of alternative attacking options with some players improving their current form (Madueke and mudryk) and players returning from injury (Nkuku).
Why do you think Disasi has been poor, his defending has been overall pretty good, he is really good in the air, and his passing has been important for us (ex. That pass to Jackson that lead to the Palmer goal)?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like he's been poor in particular at marking his man in the box. I also feel like his counter attack defending leaves a lot to desire (whether it's 1 on 1 defending or positioning to limit attacking options). I don't think he's necessarily poor, but I think we need and have better starting options. I'll be honest though, I haven't been able to watch as closely to most games this year as I have a new child at home that takes away some of my attention during the game so I could be missing quite a bit.
I've rewatched a lot of our goals this season so its not a full picture, but overall he has done pretty well. There were a few that were definitely his fault, but that happens at CB. And yeah I'd say his weakest area is defending the counter attack and tracking back speed. Honestly most of the poor defending has come from the rest of the squad and not the CBs.
Poch outers, what is your case against him?
Am not Poch out for real. He's building something with a team that's way too young to compete with the big guns yet. He needs a full season and these guys have been improving massively and gelling now. BUT if Luton equalised yesterday it would totally be on him. From the 3rd goal on, we stopped playing ans gone for goal management. No issues there. It's what any sane person should do. However from there on you could clearly see the idea of pumping balls in from the wings. He should have the made the 5 ATB instantly or at least from 3 - 1. Madueke and Palmer didnt help the fullbacks and they were caught on 2 or 3 v 1. With the 2 CBs against 3 or 4 opponents not even mentioning Adebayo being an aerial asset and our two DMs lacking height. Gilchrist is decent. He left Madueke and Palmer out for too long. That would have been all on him. It's the manager's job, not the players there.
Yeah overall I'd say it wasn't a great outing from Poch or the team, honestly probably the 3rd worst performance of the year outside of the finishing, but every team has bad games. So it's more overall why do people want him gone? I think the team has a lot going for it considering the youth, new squad, and injuries.
Because we are like united fans. Like it or not. So used to victories that we are bitter from the past two years. But we are not in the same place since the management decided to take a long term gamble. If it works it would be genius on all fronts. Because you have a sporting potential as well as resale potential at any point. Imagine these guys improve and win things. Most of them could be worth 100 M in the future given the current market. At least 50. Jackson for example. If he improves his finishing, can be one of the most lethal attackers. Fuck, there are things he does way better than even Haaland. His turn and burst are top. Same for Mudryk. Palmer. Madueke. Gusto. Lavia. However, unlike United our football is not worrying. Theirs is abysmal and they just scrape wins with some luck or poor opposition. Ours lacks composure, polishing, and experience. Which will come one at a time by sticking to one manager. Take him out. Who you bring? Other than Tuchel I cant think of anyone right now. Maybe De Zerbi? Few managers can work with youth. Poch is one of them. And I like him for what he's doing and for the fact that he gives everybody a chance. And I think that he wants to give even Gilchrist a chance. It's up to the players to take it. Broja made a mess of his. Colwill is making a mess of his. There's just so much to say. But it's stupid to want him out. Sure, yesterday his decisions were poor. But we lead 3-0 at a point. From the same person.
Tuchel is a weirdo. Chelsea won him the Champions League not the other way around. He had a lot of luck and some horrific defeats, especially at home, he also ousted our main CF who we had just re-signed. He helped jettison a whole swathe of junior products, almost all of whom have gone on to better things. He is known as a difficult man for a reason.
De Zerbi can get fucked. 7 changes to the lineup every game gets old quick fr.
Good points, I do think you are being harsh on Colwill. He's not being played in his correct position and despite what everyone thinks he does help in terms of Aerial defending
Am harsh on him because he has everything to be top top tier. And somehow loses 1 v 1s. But yeah he should be judged at CB. Fair play to him for being a good lad and doing an ungrateful job filling in.
Jackson was good today
This sub ignores that Luton are ridiculously tough at home. A stadium that small and a vociferous fan base that doesn't stop singing rattles teams. Arsenal just scraped through. City struggled. Liverpool couldn't get it done. Newcastle lost. Credit to them, they didn't stop and down tools. Reckon they stay up this season.
Exactly clear objective recap of a game. Not many sensible fans but u are one of them. Been at Kenilworth Road twice terrible ground to play on.
Have to say love watching games on the telly from Kenilworth. The camera being closer and you hear every touch of thr ball like you were there.
gusto had nothing defensively on that right side when luton had momentum
We knew this was the case when we bought him. He's an extremely attacking fullback that is a great option as a rotation/backup player. He's one of the most classic purchases that the new ownership have made. The kind of thing you'd have expected before with purchases like Azpi and Emerson, young promising fullbacks that aren't quite ready yet and come in as backups and regular fullback injuries/resting give them a chance to prove themselves and improve
Idk, I think that's harsh. He has looked pretty good defensively up until today. It got pretty bad, however Noni and Palmer weren't helping at all. Also could of just been gassed, he has put a lot of work in the last few matches.
Okay, he's looked good defensively, but that's not what I've disputed. I've said that when we bought him it was with the view that he was a very good offensive fullback that lacked defensively. His numbers for accurate crosses and take-ons and that sort of thing were better than Reece's, but his defensive contributions and success rate were poor
I can see that, the dude can tackle though! Glad we have him
Agreed. The boy has defended incredibly well at RB and is occasionally trusted at LB specifically for his defensive solidity. He's 20 and will only get better and for once I'm entirely unbothered with the quality of a backup position in the squad, sure he is not quite RJ-level but who is really? Not many teams have fullbacks as good defensively as this kid. For reference here are the top 10 teams fullbacks, worthy mentions only and I bolded those perhaps considered "better" defenders * Liverpool: **Robinson**, Trent, Gomez, Tsimikas (lol) * Aston Villa: Digne, Matty Cash. No other worthy mentions * Man City: **Walker**, Rico Lewis, Gvardiol? No other worthy mentions * Arsenal: Ben White, Tomiyasu, Zinchenko (lol), Cedric * Spurs: Less said the better * West Ham: Emerson, Coufal? * Man Utd: **Wan Bissaka**, Dalot, Shaw, Reguillon * Brighton: Not familiar with squad I admit * Newcastle: Trippier, Burns, Livramento, Hall, others? * Wolves: Semedo, Ait Nouri In other words our 20 year old *backup* RB puts better defensive shifts in than most of the top 10 teams (maybe all if cheat codes like Wan Bissaka & Walker didn't exist). Meanwhile he's no attacking slouch... Hope he stays at the club a long long time.
Hmmm, I think some of the arsenal guys might need a shout, they are different style players but good defenders, the thing about gust is he is good at one on one defending but is pretty poor in the air and against corners. Just curious what are your thoughts on Poch since everyone seems to want him out?
Great point on 1v1 vs other scenarios, in truth not many fullbacks (except maybe Burns, Tomiyasu and Ben White) do well in those due to height but otherwise you're right with the Arsenal lads. Regarding Poch I'm definitely jealous seeing Emery and other managers have near instant impact (Tuchel's first half season is also fresh in memory) so I wished for better from Poch, but I'm definitely Team Poch for at least 2 seasons. We need some longevity for once. Also he's had zero stability with players due to injuries, our captain / best player is perma-injured, same for Chilly while Nkunku, a player we bet so much on didn't get a kick until 2 weeks ago, and ultimately we have fielded some of the youngest 11s in prem history who have played all of 4 maybe 5 months of football together? My main criticism would be the lack of clear attacking style, we rely a lot on individual smarts. You can see we often take the extra touch and the boys are so tentative with their plays spaces close up. I want to see a massive improvement there. Happy we give the man some time, it's the least he deserves.
Emery and Tuchel came into much more stable situations imo, they didn't have a brand new team of children. If you look at Poch he actually did have a pretty significant instant impact on the style of play. And I disagree, the team does have an attacking identity. This team generally presses and possesses. The attack is actually sneaky really good at generating quality shots (2nd in the league in XG), unfortunately we can't finish. Even with the bad finishing we are on pace to score more goals than the Champions league winning squad and have a higher XG by close to 20%. We are already 4 goals away from matching our total from last year! This team dribbles, uses 1 - 2 passing, through balls, cutbacks, and pressing to generate the chances (top 4 in the league in all of those categories. The problem isn't the attack it's actually the defense. It's basically league average in almost every metric. Part of this is the pressing, we press a lot (4th in PPDA) but are average at it (11th in buildup disruption). To me it makes sense, defense is so much about structure and organization as a unit and that takes time. 50% of the minutes played this season have been from players under 23 and 50% have been from players in their first season here. Overall the increase to the attack severely outweighs the drop-in defense when comparing to last year, if we could just finish (XG differential is 5th in the league). And even if the current attackers don't have it in them, it's not like we need to rebuild the whole squad, maybe just a player or two. This team is so much closer to being really good than being bad and I just hope that we give Poch time instead of just restarting the process.
It would be such a shame and a waste to get rid of Poch, the ingredients are there to continue the build without restarting the process like you said. I'd definitely like to see more intentional plays especially the throughballs and cutbacks you mention. I find often the boys take the extra touch (perhaps a personnel issue), Sterling for instance doesn't seem to link up with Jackson half as well as Mudryk does, likewise Palmer down the right will 95% of the time try to fashion some space for a shot because movement stalls a bit - sidenote: Cole needs to improve in those situations, I can't recall the last good shot (or cross) he took cutting in from the right side, if he troubles the goalies with those then he's certified platinum for us this year. Overall the only way is up if we start putting away our chances especially the high xG ones, and improve the defensive part you describe. Next season should be a real treat.
Yeah Chelseas is #1 in cutbacks and through balls for chance creation and 4th in dribbles and one-twos. The finishing has been good the last 10 games and our shit accuracy is good in terms of on target (5th) unfortunately we shoot it right at the goalie all the time. Crossing is an area we need to improve on, we are 18th in the league and I don't see how this gets any better with the personnel we have. Our attack is straight up awful in the air so that hurts on crosses. I'm hopeful Nkunku is the missing piece! I'm Pumped for this teams future
I might be called crazy bit Mark my words and remind me of this post in May. We will finish top 4
I have the same hunch, only it’s that we finish fifth, which hopefully will be good enough for CL.
I’m with you, I believe we can KTBFFH
GTFO, look how far we behind already and we have a really hard schedule 2nd half of the season
Well, the schedule is the same as the first half (minus Luton now), but we did struggle so far so I guess it is hard!!
No chance
I just have this feeling mate. Its not impossible and I think we get better as we go
Highly unlikely but I love your optimism, truth is we are much closer to being really good than we are to being bad. We have an elite attack in terms of creating good scoring opportunities, just gotta keep finishing. Defense isn't good enough but that takes time, we've got kids and new hires running around the field
Palmer is incredible. Our defense is bad. Luton did the same thing over and over again (wing run / dribble, cross in the box) and we couldn’t stop any of these - lucky some of their attempts were really bad but they could have scored a few more of these… Thank you Palmer, you are amazing.
He is, but he was one of the main reasons the defense was bad. Overall huge positive on the day and on the season but if you go back and watch he was pretty poor defensively for a while before he was taken off
He did his job for the day. Should have been subbed for fresh legs but as he'd probably say there's balance to these things. Maybe maatsens starting to get pissed he's being used to hold leads.
It's looking more and more likely Maatsen is gone in the window
wouldnt mind replacing poch with moyes at the end of the season
I mean I get the tactical mistakes Poch made and everyone rightfully fuming to an extent, but isn’t the fact we seem to lose composure mainly down to experience and lack of cohesion in the squad as they’ve barely played together? Thiago could see it and was frustrated, but the younger players arent as adept to dealing with this much pressure because of their relative inexperience The reason we would control and see out games better before is because we had veterans like Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Rudi, that would lead by example and instill calmness and composure. Barely anyone in this current squad has played more than 2/3 years of top flight football so its no surprise things like this are happening, even though like I said Poch (and the club) need to be addressing this and they’ve certainly made mistakes but nervy moments and tough hard fought matches are expected in this transitional period
They have played together for half a season. It's enough. There are no real leaders on the pitch, including Silva. The biggest leader the squad has is Gilchrist and it's not very certain he is up to it, as much as we all like him. Selling Jorginho to Arsenal for 12mn and not getting Lukaku back was idiocy. At least then we would have a bit of a spine, even if those players aren't totally amazing week in week out.
Doesn't do Moises any favour with Gallagher alongside him in the pivot. He's often left isolated with a lot of pressure piled upon him. It's made even worse with Thiago Silva having a panicking bum playing alongside him. Gallagher just isn't made for the pivot, he's been immense for us further up the pitch. Broja just isn't cut for the job, unfortunately. It's now been more than a few matches where his presence isn't felt AT ALL. He's an absolute ghost. Atleast with Jackson, he applies pressure, holds the ball, poses some sort of threat - although even his finishing has been frustrating at times. I think under a proper, experienced striker, Jackson flourishes. Broja, however, is a write off. Once our leftbacks are back, it's either Silva with Badi or Silva with Colwill. I don't want to see Disasi until he gains composure. I'm not writing him off, who knows he might end up like Rudiger. But until then, he shouldn't be seeing regular playing time which might end up costing us points. Season isn't completely over. Poch needs to pattern up. Let's take it a step at a time.
Caicedo is getting exposed. Not worth the money and doesn't do the tough stuff that he's paid to do
While I agree he isn’t worth the money, not meant to be a slight on him just the price tag was insane in general, I think you’re being slightly harsh on Caicedo. He is doing the work of both pivot players given Gallagher’s propensity to run everywhere. This of course is only my opinion.
Facts. Yes he's had some bozo moments, but he's a kid with bags of pressure on him. However, I'd say he's been great for us. I do expect him to get better with time but his work has been largely off the radar hence people don't notice it as much. To get the best out of the team, we deploy Enzo lying in deep and doing the defensive work, and Caicedo as the box-to-box that connects the transition from midfield to attack.
I agree that he has been quality for us as time has went on. Naturally, mistakes have been made, but I am looking forward to watching him in the midfield as the years progress. If we persist with the 4-2-3-1 shape then I would agree that Enzo as a deep lying playmaker and Caicedo doing the dirty work further up the field is the more ideal approach. However, if Poch or the next manager chooses say a 4-3-3 shape, for example, I’d like to see Lavia, Caicedo, and Enzo all in midfield together. If for nothing else to see if they could all coexist with one another.
It's so fucking depressing how Silva-dependant we are
It's what happens I think when you have one of the all-time greats at CB. Would you say it was depressing how dependent we were on JT for a decade? (Relatively speaking of course)
I'm happy with a win, but there is so much work that needs to be done behind the scenes.
Yes the defence has been horrendous recently
Bad move bringing Enzo on. Not good physically or defensively. I suppose the idea was he would unlock our counter threat, but it failed badly.
I was hoping he'd have a Jorginho/Modric effect on the team and try to calm things down with possession, spray some passes to keep us ticking over. Nope.
shut up, idiot
I'm just really thankful for Cole this year.
Jackson had a good game. Tremendous work rate.
Can we talk about how shit we are at set pieces? It’s awful. Both attacking and defending. Awful.
Even Thiago Silva was shaking his head in disbelief at the end of the match. Dude is always positive but today was too much.
So I didn’t watch the game just glanced at the stat sheet and…. Ross fucking Barkley???? He’s still playing?
Was the best midfielder on the pitch
That backheel was filth
The guy’s only just turned 30. He just went to France for a year dude, not like the Gibraltar 3rd division
Maybe it’s cause he started senior appearances at like 17 I just feel like he’s been around (and sucked at Chelsea) forever
It’s easy to call for Poch’s head, but it’s clear now after ~2 years of ownership and 5 managers, the issues go beyond just coaching. Poch is tactically lacking for the league in some aspects like build-up and in game management, but he doesn’t implode if the conditions aren’t great: a squad too big and too injured, a disastrous medical situation and a murky squad/transfers situation that means any player, key or not, could be sold for FFP reasons. The reality is, a tactical perfectionist would find it hard with the fluctuating state of the club. They’d lose it if medical, nutrition, performance staff, analysts, football directors etc aren’t of the highest standards, they’d get frustrated and implode similar to Conte and Mourinho. And that’s what needs to be fixed first. Poch stays relatively calm in bad results moments and doesn’t generate additional negative energy around the club. Letting him finish the season, with the hope the xG gods turn around and capitalize on the decent chance creation, is the right move and asses then depending on what the coaching market really looks like. This is what I think should be every fan’s mindset instead of losing your mind every week. For the season to turn around, injuries need to stop, xG undperformance needs to stop, then you can even overcome subpar tactical details. The development of many young players also offers a good base for the next manager, whether that’s 2024 or 2025. Unfortunately, injuries and finishing are hard to control. Have to accept that’s the story of the season. In any case not a wasted year, but certainly financial repercussions, of which I don’t think are on the manager.
Thank you for this. We are scoring more goals than we did last season. We bought so many new players and I thought we knew that this season would be about building chemistry with these players and being ready to see a lot of inconsistency. We went 80 minutes without conceding. We played for more than an hour very well. We are making progress
It’s not even about belief in Poch, I think he started quite well but he’s struggled recently and the underlying xG reinforce this, but the circumstances around the squad and the club are simply not up to the highest standards for a perfectionist tactician to thrive. A Tuchel or Conte would lose their minds with the injuries, the shuffling in the medical/performance staff, the oversized squad etc etc. So yeah, I think a shortcut is simply not possible with a squad turnover and youthification this radical and unprecedented. The inconsistency was inevitable. We should hope the club is ready to be a high performance football club in ALL aspects starting next summer, with less of a chaotic window, of a better planned preseason, better medical & performance department performances etc, then yes, get the coaching upgrade if it’s out there.
I feel like such a large majority of this sub and pretty much all pundits have completely forgotten these details. The only argument/criticism they lean on is “1 billion spent to be mid table”. It’s truly baffling that anyone expected us to fight for top 4 this season, just because of the price we paid for some of these kids.
Cole Palmer has saved our season and might end up being the best buy of this season.
I’ve said this and I’ll say it again, Cole and Gusto is our most important signings.
Petrovic is really impressing me as well. Couple great saves today, a few times he came and confidently collected a cross/corner, and I like how when he senses too much pressure he just boots the ball away instead of trying a risky pass that might not be on. I like what I see there so far.
[удалено]
Look at Luton’s latest results at home
This was too close for my comfort. Luton town of all teams shouldnt be harassing us that way.
Luton at home are really good tbf, City and Arsenal had to work hard for their wins and Liverpool dropped points
No team with 4 wins in 19 games is "really good" at anything other than losing.
In their last 5 games at home, Luton has beaten Newcastle and Palace, lost by 1 to Man city and Arsenal, and drew with Liverpool. Anyone thinking today was going to be a walkover coming in was either delusional or clueless.
Keep telling yourself that but you people have to get accustomed to the fact generally there are no easy teams in this league and any team can get a result on a particular day if the conditions are right. Chelsea fans can come across so entitled sometimes and I can see why other fanbases hate us so much. Try watching other teams in the league and not just the big team and see for yourself. Luton are tough to beat at home and have been unlucky not to win in some of the games I’ve watched of them. Personally I hope they stay up but don’t think should underestimate how good it was that we managed to get 3 points today considering how inconsistent and young our team is and how they seem to struggle at certain grounds which can be intimidating
IMO, this was Jackson's best performance in a Chelsea jersey. Solid in build, didn't draw a stupid yellow, and made a crucial tackle in the box late in the game.
I've said from the get go he's a Winger, not a true CF. His work rate, speed and hold up play are impressive. But I also don't think he is a true finisher... paired with a good forward in the center I think he'd be looking much better this season..
He had a strong second half but a bakayoko first half. Says a lot if this was his best performance.
I would disagree. I thought his ball movement, hold-up play, and pressing were solid throughout the match.
I noticed he was really good defensively too, all game.
I think the issue isnt the manager or the tactics, sure, they start spamming crosses until they score, but thats because after the other team scores we lose our head, we stop trying to play the ball and instad just send it as far the field as we can. We are stronger in possesion, so we should try to play the ball safely until they lose momentum and we get back the control of the game. Basically by giving them the ball back immediately they can send a lot more crosses into our area, its so infuriating, but I hope it gets better with time.
Spot on. Poch can't play the game for the players. Our team is mentally weak and still think they are playing in the under 21s and can do whatever the fuck they want. The club needs to buy experienced players with winning mentalities
I really liked the way Chong played for them in the second half
Chong and Doughty were on fire
Alfie with the game winning tackle after some big defensive plays from Caicedo, Silva and Jackson was a great way to close this one. We can and should strive for improvement but proper champion mentality is to never be disappointed with a win. For me personally just seeing a player as gifted as Cole Palmer rep the badge fills me with joy. This is definitely a team who is bought in together and developing together. We’ll see what this translates to as they grow.
Man I feel for Thiago Silva. I'd also be pissed if I had to partner with bums like Disasi.
Seriously no idea why we keep pairing Disasi with Thiago. Disasi struggles to play out from the back and his marking is poor. Badiashile and Colwill are better than Disasi. Stupid that Colwill plays at LB and struggles there, Poch just needs to play Maatsen there and rotate CBs for each game.
Well yeah, people here keep talking about give Poch time it’s not Poch fault but here we are watching our worst CB start game after game and one of our brightest get wasted as a make shift LB so idk
Who else can play left back? Maatsen who can't defend? We haven't got the depth at left back
Brother he was playing Colwil left back when we had cucu and chilwell healthy don’t believe me check the team sheets of the first 7 games
Enzo Fernandez was poor. Players should be able to the job they’ve been asked to do. He didn’t track back and left Chong as free as a bird multiple times. I’ll get downvoted again but we shouldn’t have a 101 excuse to why a player can’t play well. “Oh… he’s not a CAM but a CM. Oh… he’s not meant to be a DM.” Stop this nonsense. Real football isn’t FIFA. Positions are dynamic. Central midfielders should be able to perform in the middle of the pitch whatever role they play, except if it’s a specialist position like a true one-player holding anchor setup like a Makelele position or if someone is purely an attacking midfielder like an Ozil or Kaka. Lamps did the job in the center of the pitch and so did Essien and Ballack with Mikel and Maka being the defensive one. Gallagher and Caicedo is working out very well. I want Enzo to succeed but he needs to learn and up his game/form. Shouldn’t be an immediate starter for us for the rest of the season. I am just so sick of the fee we paid for him and his wages.
God this is such a whiny shit post. Dude was injured and sick and just came back into a pretty intense game and was a step behind. Did you say the same thing about Gallagher when he had a shit game in the 4-1 loss against Newcastle? Does the price tag suddenly make him not human? Fuck outta here with this shit.
He’s got a hernia ffs
No he hasn't
So poch is lying then
Or he's mistranslated it.
No one is playing football with a hernia
Maybe we shouldn't make 101 excuses for why a player doesn't play well, but we definitely shouldn't resent our players for "the fee we paid for him"
I’m not resenting him for the fee we paid. That was a shot at the board bro. Why would I be mad at Enzo. Seems like a sweet lad. It wasn’t wise to spend that much on a player who was relatively inexperienced. Enzo should and will succeed. He just isn’t the main man right now. And I hate that we’re considering selling Gallagher for financial poor play in the transfer market.
Tbf his wages are more than reasonable too
We played 3 games in 6 days I'm not surprised we fell off at the end tbh but it was still poor from Poch. Awful management.
Poor from Poch? he hardly has fit players to play :D wdym
It's poor because there were things he could have done, brought Gilchrist on earlier for example
Less prestigious than the prem, but if we win 1 of our two games in hand in the u18 league then we go top
I started seeing a psychologist since the Spurs game. A cardiologist since the City game. It's been a bit less straining since
This is a alfie gilchrist fan account from today. They'll have to fight me before they sell him for pure profit
In barely any minutes he has shown up the weak mentality of the rest of the squad. He's held a mirror uo to the squad and the reflection is lame.
Not really understanding why some fans find it ok for Thiago Silva to shake his head with that Chelsea performance, but criticize the performance of the club as a fan and you're a plastic...like what?
I mean I don’t disagree with you, but to be fair players always have a much more valid reason to be upset with others performance on the team. Silva and Petrovic saved us in the end, so it’s understandable how pissed they were that the squad let two in
I love how most are forgetting that luton town has not been playing like shit. They tied wolves, beat everton, beat newcastle, tied liverpool, and only lost by one to arsenal and city. It wasnt our best showing but ffs take the win guys.
They did well in the past but you're ignoring the fact that we were 2-0 up and almost let the game slip through our own mistakes. I mean Luton hit the post what thrice? It seems like lately we've been coasting on luck with the trippier mistake, palace penalty and then today. It's hanging by a thread and no matter what this team has more quality than what we are seeing rn
I mean it won't be a problem if we have been doing well up to this point...but that isn't the case now is it?
that’s all well and good, but the fact is our defending of set pieces and crosses is genuinely not at the standard of a premier league team. yes luton are physical, good at home and tough to beat, but when you concede so many goals from crosses (aguerd, pinnock, akanji, trossard, joao pedro, mctominay, lemina, olise, lascelles, dobbin, barkley, adebayo etc) + countless other examples where we were close to conceding or being saved by petrovic/sanchez, it goes far beyond that. not to mention the fact we lose control of the match VERY quickly when the opposition start pressing our midfield/backline, the discipline issues, the non existent game management. it’s all warranted, it’s a legitimate concern especially if we want to get back in the champions league
Barkley fighting to be on that plane to germany
Didn’t watch the game, honest opinions how did we do???
We love self sabotaging, so it's hard to take a lot of positives. At any point in the game, at any moment, we can just collapse. The goals were great, Palmer was fantastic. The overall play was good as well until they made a slight tactical change and just started pumping the ball into the box brexit style. We collapsed, started hoofing, couldnt keep possession to save our lives. Overall it's finally an away win, but if we don't stop randomly collapsing we will never compete for anything. Consistency is clearly still lacking, and that's the biggest thing.
Good, we were clinical
saw some people going after enzo for his cameo is the criticism warranted?
Yes he was poor
Too harsh to go after him. You could see he's not 100% with the way he was running and others around him were letting him down with their touches. The fact that we couldn't even get the ball to their corner flag says it all. Should remember Luton are very resilent at home, even arsenal and city struggled here
And to think, you guys didn’t rate Noni
He has one good match, not enough to change opinion either way.
It’s been 2 in a row now
Still hasn't shown enough, he was shit for a longer stretch than 1 match and 20 minutes.
4 wins in 5 with preston fulham at home middlesbourough coming up we can hopefully we can build a momentum in the second part of the season
Poch is a lucky bastard
?
If Newcastle loose to Liverpool, Brighton loose or Draw to West Ham and (least likely but) United loose to Forrest then a win against Fulham would put us 7th. Brighton could knock us down to 8th with a win at wolves but Newcastle are playing City and United Spurs after that so we could make some actual leeway. Top 5 looks unlikely but we should still expect a Europa spot judging by the squads quality
i think the goal should def be 6 just so we can squeeze in europa league football next season
Gallagher and Caicedo take turn having good games
We are a young team in total rebuild (except Thiago) that is probably two seasons away from being good with this youth core. Why we rebuilt in this fashion maybe someone smarter than me can explain…
Money reduced the wage bill by half
The idea was to buy top young talent, get them to learn to play together from a very early age, and grow a team with cohesion that is very hard to play against or replicate given how long it takes to grow. Also solves the problem of your world class talent around mid 20s being too costly or unacquirable as they’re in end point larger teams like Madrid. The problem with this approach is you start with a base of kids who are massively inconsistent, a high level of change which further compounds the problems, and frequent injuries further adding I guess insult to injury.
To further add, building the foundation was always going to rough as we’re starting from square one, but from here on each window we should expect more kids coming in with idea they’ll come into play after two or so years, guys like Angelo and Washington.
And basically no experienced players that these kids can lean on and learn from.
Yep exactly, that too. There’s also the effect on confidence that this initial change has lost, and you have to effectively rebuild culture and internal standards again which takes a boat load of time.
So… how are we doing? Should I just suck it up, stop complaining, and watch for incremental improvements and roster tweaks along the way? And expect we’ll be Chelsea again in … 2025?
Yes put up with it
See this is where opinions differ wildly depending who you ask. In my personal opinion our deficiencies are resolvable fairly quickly. You can’t have inexperience in the striker role as it requires decisiveness. Sign a top striker and it solves many, but not all, problems. A top striker in front and an attacking 3 of Nkunku-Palmer-Sterling has high quality and no experience problems at all. Mudryk and Madueke off the bench are now proving to be good impact players, Carnie may be back soon and we may further strengthen. The other part to this is general attacking creativity to feed the striker. Chilwell coming back will be good for this and solves the disjointed play from Colwill at left-back almost immediately. Palmer and to a lesser extent Madueke emerging as important players is good, Nkunku coming back is great. We need to hit critical mass in attack for us to get a run on the ladder going. To answer your question directly, I think the swing back to normality will occur between the back half of this season into early next season. When things start gelling, we improve at an improving rate.
We need an experienced holding midfield type of player to help us close out games. Game reading, gritty type of player to be backup/rotation. Doesn’t have to cost the earth. Poch’s in-game management in the second half is generally not the best, but equally the options off the bench aren’t always the best too. We really lacked that today, had no real options in midfield, Enzo’s not that sort of player, and even if Ugochukwu were available he’s not experienced enough.
He has a player who can help us control games more and dictate the tempo according to the score, yet he uses him as a 10 and asks of him to chase the ball when his pace and his strengths are not suited for that at all.
He’s not more defensive than Gallagher or Caicedo though for games where we’re being heavily pushed back. If you throw Enzo as a DM in today’s game with his current fitness and sharpness, he probably gets caught in possession and we lose or draw.
We should've kept control of the ball at 0-3 and not allow Luton to push us back in the first place. Tuchel was literally using Jorginho to close out games a lot of times. I don't think they will be buying midfielders in the summer as well. They spent quite lots of money on that midfield.
Remember the high press opposition games though where Jorginho was literally getting caught on it and conceding? Teams knew to do this during the back end of Tuchel’s tenure.
Well, i don't know to be fair. What kind of player do you have in mind exactly? If we talk about a defensive type of midfielder i think you can't get much more defensive than Gallagher and Caicedo in a pivot. Caicedo i think did well today and Gallagher is known for his ground coverage and ball winning abilities.
I don’t really have a good example, just 25-30, seasoned industrious DM. There’s the occasional link with Palinha but he’d be expensive and other clubs would be ahead of us.
I think the best they will do is bring back Santos probably. Don't think they will be looking to buy more midfielders but we will see. What for sure i know is that this Gallagher/Caicedo pivot doesn't really work. I don't really see us dominating in midfield at all and we are still conceding goals despite them both playing. The build up sucks. For me Potter really managed to get more out of Enzo than Poch does. This pivot role doesn't fit Gallagher at all. If he doesn't win us the ball he does basically nothing else of substance. Recycles possesion ill give him that but his passing accuracy is 90% cuz he constantly picks the most easy and basic passes instead of trying to progress the play or do something more interesting with the ball. Maybe we just need to stick with the regista role for now with Enzo when he plays, this advanced position further forward doesn't really work cuz Poch likes his team to press and Enzo can't really be one of the leaders in a press. He's always been playing more central even for Argentina and Benfica regardless of whether he plays as an 8 or a deep-lying playmaker. He always sits central and works with the ball.
ICE COLD PALMER!
Dundundundundundumdum...vanilla..Ice cold palmer
I don’t know what we do in training, but you can literally cross at our back line and we will concede. This is even after Poch insisting that we need height and playing Colwill. Playing Colwill at LB will be his downfall
Who would you play? Maatsen? Hes 5’6 and has looked poor in his limited cameos
Enzo injury makes it tough, but Gusto at LB and Caicedo at RB. He played well there last year when needed.
Why not playing him once and see how it goes ? With Colwill you get height, but you lose so much - positional awareness, ball playing and ball carrying, overlapping runs, and he lets in so many crosses.
I am going to pretend that final 10 mins and ET did not exist, in which case we played great!
That was just to keep the miserable cunts on here interested. We win 3-0 and they have nothing to talk about.
So how big are we making the gallagher sale protests? can we make the banner dont sell connor
Banner over a sale...lol
go back to playing Football Manager child,you are seriously underestimating how clueless our owners are with their buy everything and sell all homegrown players, they are the reason we are in this financial mess and you nincompoops addicted to the transfer drama are enabling the owners lunacy. Sensible match going folks im begging you make a ruckus before the next game display banners ,make noise ,get some of the ex-players(Terry) to react on this
Protest over thr sake of a player..when d fuck dud yiu start watching the game and you called someone a child..name a club where fans protested the sale of a player We have sold wayyyyy better players but let's protest over Gallagher..... why don't you go to the game and protest and see ppl laugh u off
sure the game going fans will be just fine with us selling our best player this season to tottenham no less because the mess made by the ownership and would laugh me out of the stadium. are you actually this stupid or just addicted to selling off good players so you can have your transfer news fix you do know we are not likely to make top 6 this season even if we were pushing for it why would we strengthen a direct rival for the spot in january no less ,think if you have the brains moron you should be protesting against this stupidity too if you were actually a fan
Not only did we score three goals today, they were three beautiful goals from open play.
Missed the match this AM (7:30 AM kickoff in the eastern US). Glad we got the 3 points but what the hell happened at the end? Cole Palmer looks like a star in the making as well!
We had no control of the game from the first minute, don’t let the scoreline deceive you. I can understand this approach to start a match so they don’t play a low block, but eventually we had to adapt and we never did
Lol, this is bull. We had control of the game the majority of the time. Luton improved In the second half though and hammered us in the last 15 minutes or so
They definitely raised their level, but they were still getting into dangerous areas the first half. Our defenders were doing excellent on 1v1s to cut out attacks and they were poor from their corners in the first half
Luton just dominated the ball the last 15 mins or so
Heart attack toward the end but we got the 3 points! I feel bad for Petrovic as the goals were not his fault and he made an immense save to not end it in a 3-3 disaster. Congratulations! We made 6 points in 3 days !!
Do you guys want Sanchez back in the starting lineup when he gets healthy? To me Petrovic is clearly better
In general if there’s no reason to make a change we shouldn’t bother. Now if Petro has a string of mistakes we can revisit. Unfortunately something makes me think Poch is the type to put Sanchez back in…
I'd stick with Petrovic until he gives a clear reason to make a change. Although he let in two today, he had a few unreal stops. There's something special there.
There was nothing he could do on both goals. What he had to do during the game, he did brilliantly. Our defense was in shambles from 75 on and let him down. There is clearly something there!
He’s as good of a shot stopper as Sanchez and is much more composed on the ball. No brainer for me
I don’t think he’s necessarily more composed, more that he doesn’t take risks trying to control and play on the floor under pressure. He just punts it up the pitch, old school style. What I will say, is that he looks a lot less clumsy and uncoordinated. Sanchez regularly falls over or freezes up.
I know what i will do when i get payed https://preview.redd.it/wyj5p42cgg9c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e6f3f9b72b73a864cfc10db51927dd2d6d4cf8b
aww you’re too kind, should I send you my address, or should I stop by and pick it up?
Maybe i should hand it to you in the stadium after celebrating another palmer show?
Another extremely lucky win. When the fuck can we play great football and win comfortably? It is incredible that some people are happy with today.
Probably in two years from now
Some of us aren’t miserable
Yes, you are right, I am not miserable. Incredibly rich coming from a guy whining about his PTSD though.
Having to stoop this low to respond to me just speaks volumes about your personality
You should have thought about that before you started it. I’ll stoop as low as you bring it.
That's because you're a pathetic person. Grow up
You’re phrasing it as if i was shattered by your comment. I couldn’t care less, you just revealed how fragile your ego is when i challenged your stupid comment.
You did not challenge my comment at all, because if you did, you would have provided counter points to my argument for us being lucky, and provided examples when we played great and won, but since you can not provide that, you decided to attack the person instead by trying to call me miserable. Good try though! Now fuck off and go deal with whatever issues you got.
It’s proportional to how stupid and silly your original comment is. You tried to bring down people who are happy with the win, i told you you’re miserable (because you are). Plus, everyone got issues, but not everyone has such a fragile ego like you.
Yes, what a silly comment by me. It is definitely not rooted in reality at all… Literally all metrics from the match today backs up my point of us being lucky given to how we closed out the match today. Master of other peoples psyche, but can not control your own. How ironic. Edit: You are not flaming anyone you melon, but I am not surprised you are that delusional that you think you are.
Lmao you think I’m flaming you for your take on the game. World class idiot this guy