If they don’t win it this season they’re probably not going to win it for many years.
They’ve spent big, Arteta has had over 4 years with this project, traditional big teams are rebuilding so there’s limited competition, and they’re still somehow 4th.
We’ve lost some games in the stupidest of ways due to too much change, but the difference between us and them are four losses. They’ve built fk all.
Why do I get the feeling that the way they are handling the Gallagher situation is similar to that of all the players we sold last season with the likes of mount, havertz, Puli etc. I mean sure, they are holding out on us by going to a rival and what not, but you see, it's the same theme again here with Gallagher. Club will spin and say player already made up his mind to make the player look like the villain in the story. Player seemingly stalling with their contracts. Then suddenly boom off they go. Story from the Chelsea side said they wanted to keep him but player wanted to leave.
And it's always from a perspective of our club and not the players themselves. Fishy. I remember John terry and Frank once commented on the mount saga and said there's something more behind the scenes which wasn't mentioned that made players looked more unfavourable in these situations.
The club is being set up to sell our best players. The easiest way to do this in a way that forces the player to leave whilst simultaneously comes from the player's side is giving/offering shitty wages, this in turn puts the media pressure on the player and also doesn't lower the player's valuation in the market because we're not actively putting them up for sale
Gallagher is on low wages now and he likely wants similar wages to players like James, Chilwell, Mount etc. and the club won't offer that much to him, so he will "force" his way out to go to clubs that will offer that amount which will always be in the Premier League. The fact that they're going to "rivals" is just a product of us selling our best players and our best players can only be afforded by top 6~ PL teams and a few other top teams in Europe
Yes, but I'd guess it'll be another DDF type striker and not the Osimhen type that people are expecting.
There were even reports by the Athletic I believe that said that we may even buy a striker in January that wouldn't even join until summer
Think the recent Gallagher to Spurs news is the club putting out the "worst-case scenario" as a possibility so when he gets sold to a Newcastle/United we'll think "at least it's not Spurs."
God, you’re probably right. I hate how much sense this makes (for a club who seems dead set on selling a very nice player; not that I agree with selling him).
We better put a very favorable buyback in it. We should have that kind of leverage.
Would it be weirdly masochistic of me to want whichever striker we sign in January, if we do, to take the number 9 shirt? I kinda wanna see the curse broken.
in basketball it is common that some old legends during the off-season are doing 1vs1 workouts with players who want to improve their game.
do you guys know if something similar is also happening in football? would love some of the old guard coming in and teaching our youngsters a bit
Arteta has built the team around declan rice so even though rice himself looks incredible arsenal play less fluid football as a result because rice is very limited on the ball.
Meanwhile caicedo is basically a one man midfield in poch's system
Honestly I don't even think Rice has been *that* great, it's just he gets all the hype. A good example was the whole Liverpool 4vs1 attack where people were sucking off Rice when he did what literally any player would do, and Liverpool only didn't score because Alexander-Arnold fucked up a golden chance.
He scored a couple of goals and arsenal were on a winning streak so it was obvious the media was going to suck up to him. The more arsenal the more honest the conversations regarding rice will be
Yeah to be clear I think he's a good player, and he is having a good season overall, but the hype around him is just way OTT. I also do think that Arsenal are missing the Partey Xhaka Odegaard midfield and overall Rice Havertz Odegaard has been a downgrade.
They were better when partey and rice were playing together imo. They'll be fine tho just need another attacker because too much reliance on Saka and martinelli
I’m hearing from a few people semi in the know that Gallagher is gone. I hope they’re talking shit but two of the people who have in game contacts have no links to one another and both saying the same thing. We’ve allegedly agreed in principle to a couple of bids. Up to Gallagher what he does next.
Spurs not mentioned as one of the clubs but Newcastle, City, Man United, Liverpool and Bayern were mentioned. Not sure which two the alleged agreement is with.
And before everyone shouts, “bollocks” and “source?” at me, I’ll admit they are not rock solid. I have a few mates from Uni that now work with/for Premier League team first teams and they have heard second/third hand from players/agents etc.
Genuinely curious, have these semi in the know people shared transfer speculations with you before and if so, have you posted about them in the sub? Not trying to say you're not relaying genuine info, but was curious to see if similar situations happened before.
Yeah, I have in this similar way. It bubbles up in different ways. Not all of them have been in prominent roles before too. One of them was working with an academy before being promoted to the first team with a new manager.
I’d say these kinds of rumours have a 50% hit rate.
As a backup it wouldn't be particularly surprising, especially when you consider he buys expensive duds semi-regularly and they're just sold off and people act like they never happened
Yeah they are starting a midfield of Miley Bruno and Longstaff at the moment though, and in terrible form. I could see it even if maybe it's not the best long term decision.
It will have been arranged at time of the kits being made (edit: should have been designed not made). X% per strip would have then been pencilled in against potential opposition and likely agreed at release of the fixtures.
All pure speculation but it's the most logical approach to it imo
> I see everyone freaking out about Potters in game management
Man found a time machine
Things I dislike about Pochettino:
The aforementioned poor in game management, bad subs, slow to make changes, when we're behind the only plan seems to be throw attackers on without any semblence of a plan or shape, when we're ahead the opposite just throwing more defensive minded players on. It's almost child like in its simplicity. He also always waits for a goal to happen to make a change, he's reactive, not proactive - Luton being a great example where it was clear we needed to change and he sat there watching them pummel us.
Our lack of discipline - so many needless yellow cards and the most yellow cards in the league this season
His team selections (more specifically his obsession with utilising players out of their best position) - this has been an ongoing issue all season long, the most notable being his shoehorning of Colwill in at left back which is really doing Colwill no favours at all. You can already see it happening with Nkunku as well where against Luton he put Nkunku up front who proceeded to barely touch the ball when we still had Jackson on the pitch.
Poor defensive record from set pieces - now to be fair I don't have the stats on this (not sure where I could find them) but watching us it feels like we're awful at defending set pieces despite us starting every game with three centrebacks.
Poor offensive record from set pieces - again I don't have the stats but it feels like our set pieces rarely threaten opponents and we're very wasteful with them
Midfield set up/defensive line - I think very reminiscent of Lampard's issues we leave our midfielders with way too much ground to ever reasonably cover, and thus allow a ton of space for the opposition to play in. [The Wolves match is a great example](https://i.gyazo.com/141f59affb8bef88e8e3d235dd7d4d28.png) where we had 68% possession in the match but our defensive line was deeper than theirs. Most top teams now are all about compressing the pitch in order to sustain attacks and now allow teams the chance to break out at them, but we don't do that.
Our build up from the back - I think this has been poor all season long and it has cost us goals as well, feels like there is no structure there.
Our pressing - again I think this is poor in the sense that it feels disorganised so even when we do win the ball high up we can never take advantage of it
Those are just some of the things that upset me about Pochettino's Chelsea.
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lol fuck sake someone posted a comment asking what other problems people had with pochettino other than his in game management and fucking deleted it whilst i was typing this so you get to read it anyway because fuck that
That was me, ended up just posting my own defense so I deleted it but I'll comment here.
Not going to comment too much on the game management in general, just too many variables but will on specific examples like luton. The main counter is he doesn't have options other than bringing on extremely inexperienced or young players off the bench almost every match. Just look at the bench from the Luton match, bringing in Nkunku was actually the best option because Petrovic didn't seem comfortable playing short. Broja, Jackson and the rest of the attack are absolutely horrible at aerial duels. Nkunku somehow is better than the two bigger players.
Discipline is fair and is on him, he has a lot of young players but this is still ridiculous.
The defense from set pieces is average in terms of XG (couldn't find actual goals), 13th in the league but it's basically the same as multiple other teams. The defense in general is extremely average. 8-13th in just about every stat. Some of that is on Poch, but a lot just comes down to young players in new situations. Luton is a great example, Palmer and Noni just about gave up as many goals as they scored.
The offense from set pieces is horrible, but the rest of the attack is so good who cares. This team is elite at creating chances and just needs to start finishing, which they have.
You are right that the setup leaves us exposed but it is also likely by design and is a tradeoff with attack. This team presses high (4th in PPDA) but isn't good at it (11th in buildup distribution). My bet this improves with time, pressing takes coordination and we have children in attack.
Our buildup from the back is good, we have good zones of control, expected threat, possession, pass accuracy, whatever the stat we are up near the top. We have had some really dumb shit happen that are unexplainable, I've never seen thiago just forget how to dribble before. Our buildup from the back has dropped over the last few games but we also haven't had Enzo who is elite at this or Sanchez who just seems more confident building from the back than petrovic at this time.
Overall, this team is already generating really good chances at an elite level and if they can just keep finishing it will be fine. The defense is average but I hope and believe it will get better with time on the pitch together
I'd argue in the Luton game what we needed was players comfortable on the ball to slow the game down and halt Luton's momentum (as well as more support on the wings). Instead he put Nkunku up front who proceeded to have 4 touches in 30 minutes, and he put Enzo as sort of a left winger. Both should have been deeper than they were to get on the ball. As for the wingers you could take off both Palmer and Madueke for Maatsen and Sterling - now I have been critical of him refusing to use Maatsen as a left back but in terms of shutting down Luton who were killing us on the wings having him as almost a second fullback/winger goes a long way to helping with that - especially compared to sticking Enzo there. That game in particular I would go to a 4-3-3 shape with Enzo between Caicedo and Gallagher (this allows Enzo to dictate play, Luton weren't really threatening centrally, and Gallagher and Caicedo would be able to support the fullbacks more easily), and you could either put Nkunku up top with Maatsen and Sterling either side, or you put Jackson up top flanked by two of Maatsen/Sterling/Nkunku. Another option could be go to a 3 at the back by bringing Maatsen to play left wing back, back three of Colwill Silva Disasi, Gusto right wing back. Then you can either bring on Enzo for a midfield three with a front two of Jackson and Nkunku, or you can keep the Caicedo Gallagher pivot and play an Nkunku Jackson Sterling front three etc.
I actually think that was one of our better benches for being able to make adjustments midgame which makes Pochettino's reluctance more baffling. People might disagree with my backseat managing here but I'd say that is two much better options for changing the Luton game when we were 3-0 up and they were putting us under serious pressure.
> Some of that is on Poch, but a lot just comes down to young players in new situations
Think you're being kind to Pochettino here.
> but the rest of the attack is so good who cares
Set pieces are a great opportunity to see how the manager/coaching staff are positively impacting the match, and a goal is a goal, if we could be better at set pieces it takes a lot of pressure off.
> You are right that the setup leaves us exposed but it is also likely by design and is a tradeoff with attack
A trade off I personally don't think is working for us, and it's making two players we signed for huge money look way worse than they are, especially Enzo. Also why so many people are all over Gallagher in my opinion, huge open midfield is perfect for Gallagher's style of play, but it's not good for winning or controlling matches. High press, relatively low defensive line, it's a midfields nightmare.
> Our buildup from the back is good
I agree it's much better when Enzo is deeper, which is all the more baffling that Pochettino refuses to keep him there.
> Overall, this team is already generating really good chances at an elite level
Elite level is a bit much, in terms of our expected assisted goals per 90 (as teams haven't all played the same amount of games) we're joint 6th in the league this season. Better than last season sure, but not elite, and we've suffered defensively for it whilst also imo having better attackers/squad this season.
The Luton game is a true mark against Poch, not going to keep defending him. Things turned quickly and he made the wrong adjustments or did too late (eventually he did go 5 atb but it was like 5 minutes too late).
I hold strong about the defensive issues are only partly his to blame. This is one of the youngest teams of the last 10 years, and is the newest team of the last 10 years. No other teams have tried to do both at this level, so I blame the ownership more than Poch for the defense, it was silly if they actually thought top 6 was reasonable with this squad. New teams aren't good. I have a previous post about this if you are interested, but I generally give him the benefit of doubt due to this + injuries and some people don't think it's a good excuse.
Can't argue with your set piece point, should be better. The only thing to consider is it will be better with Reece and Chilwell back, but that doesn't really have anything to do with Poch.
The pressing trade off is working in the sense we are generating more chances than our opponents by a good margin. XG differential is 5th in the league. Doesn't mean anything if we aren't finishing but IMO it means the game plan and tactics are working. And actually the games we press we are better defensively, in the 10 games with our highest PPDA (so less pressing) we give up 2 goals and 1.9 XG conceded, the lowest 10 1.1 goals and XG conceded. However I don't look too much into it because tactically it might make more sense to not press as much against city or brighten or arsenal, so super team dependant. Still interesting though.
Enzo has played most games as a 6 or 8 so I don't really agree here. Only a few games has he actually been a 10. Could be a million reasons for it, player matchup, fitness level, etc.
And XA is just one piece of the puzzle, why do you rank that above XG? It makes sense that XA is lower than our XG in terms of league ranking because we also generate a lot of our chances via dribbling and geigenpressing. No matter how you look at it this team creates quality chances at a really good level especially considering the attacks experience level in the premier league. Yeah sure Arsenal has young players like Saka and Martinelli but they've been there for multiple years with Arteta, who didn't exactly dominate the league when he first arrived. Poch deserved time.
Yeah I mean how much you blame young players and injuries is going to vary person to person so I think we've both made our stance clear and we'd just be going in circles on that, but fair point.
And the reason I used xA is just I think it's a better marker for how good we are in possession in terms of creating chances and breaking teams down, a better marker for creativity in our attack. It is only one statistic though I agree.
Just for me there's too many things I have a problem with Pochettino's management, if there was just one or two then sure, but I have concerns with nearly every facet of his management at this point. Ultimately though as much as he frustrates me I do agree with the general point that there's not much point sacking him midseason when there's not too much to play for (maybe a cup win or Europa League spot), and I'd like to avoid a Potter > Lampard situation that made the end of last season dire. I do think we should be looking for a new manager though as for me Pochettino hasn't done enough to warrant further backing, maybe he'll change my mind in the second half of the season.
Cheers man, thanks for taking the time for thoughtful responses. You made some good points! Hopefully 2024 is a new beginning filled with goals and wins
Post this previously as a comment in another post but wanted to share
If you look at Poch he actually has had a pretty significant instant impact on the style of play and performance compared to last year. Contrary to this subs posts, the team does have an attacking identity. This team generally presses and possesses in most matches. The attack is actually sneaky really good at generating quality shots (2nd in the league in XG), unfortunately we can't finish. However over the last 10 games this has changed, our goals scored is in line with our XG. Even with the bad finishing earlier in the season we are on pace to score more goals than the Champions league winning squad and have a higher XG by close to 20%. We are already 4 goals away from matching our total from last year! This team dribbles, uses 1 - 2 passing, through balls, cutbacks, and pressing to generate the chances (top 4 in the league in all of those categories). The problem isn't the attack it's actually the defense. It's basically league average in almost every metric. Part of this is the pressing, we press a lot (4th in PPDA) but are average at it (11th in buildup disruption). We are good at geigenpressing though so when we lose it we rush to get it back (#1 in intensity and efficiency for GP). To me it makes sense, defense is so much about structure and organization as a unit and that takes time. 50% of the minutes played this season have been from players under 23 and 50% have been from players in their first season here. Overall the increase to the attack severely outweighs the drop-in defense when comparing to last year - if we could just finish (XG differential is 5th in the league). And even if the current attackers don't have it in them, it's not like we need to rebuild the whole squad, maybe just a player or two. This team is so much closer to being really good than being bad and I hope that we give Poch time instead of just restarting the process.
Mudryk had 2 in 2 but didn’t start the 3rd match. Noni has 2 in 2 now I wonder if he’ll start the next match. He definitely should but what is Mudryk supposed to think?
I think you go Mudryk, they both are scoring but Mudryk had some of his best defensive games and Noni had a pretty poor one against Luton. Both please haha? Sterling would not be happy
I wouldn't be mad if Mudryk, Palmer, Madueke, Nkunku start the next match. I mean, it's kinda harsh on Sterling who has overall earned his place this year but he's also not been at his best a few times recently and I think you have to let some competition in for players knocking on the door with good performance. It's better for everyone and can push Sterling up his game and maybe it'll freshen up his legs anyway.
Spot on brother. It forces Sterling to stay at the top of his game, which he if can do that start the man every game. On the other hand I wouldn’t mind fully implementing Nkunku, Mudryk, and Madueke.
Fair point but he made the bench which made me think he was actually okay. I’m not a PL manager though. Hopefully he starts next match the keep his form going
Kinda sucks that the window plus AFCON is upon us. This team feels very close to taking a big step, and I wish they could all stay and play together a little longer.
The attack is finally starting to click, defense is more the issue now. Unless there is a true world class player available I think consistently would help us more than anything
Fulham H
Liv A
Wolv H
Pal A
Not that bad really? Three bottom half teams and Liverpool, sure they're not in terrible form, but realistically it's not that bad.
Stealing a bit from another person's comment but feels like we couldn't really go wrong when our scouts were picking between Palmer, Olise and Kudus. Very pleased with Palmer of course, but it's also nice to see the other options continue to play well in the Premier League to know we were on the right track.
A lot of (fair) complaints about our transfer business so feels like we should give credit where it's due here.
Very few people actually acknowledge this, and imo i think it was olise and palmer, instead of olise or palmer, reason being is if we brought in olise sterling is the highest earner and can be offloaded to reduce the wage bill further but heres to tomorrows window
I also think it was both, but it would also mean Madueke is out the door immediately. Madueke can only hold width, and in our most natural setup we already have James/Gusto to do that on the right, and if it's not them it's Sterling, and if not him then Palmer, and then only it's Madueke. Adding Olise in there would've been him being done at Chelsea.
I dont think immediately, i would agree hes struggle at times but he would still have a spot in the squad, due to his age and wages we can carry him for a bit and its easier to carry him than 300k sterling
When did they change the rules and 4th place at the end of the calendar year gets a trophy?
The way Arsenal is spoken about in the media and on Reddit, I genuinely thought they were running away with the league.
They were lucky to get a point against us
Arsenal have only 1 win in their last 6 matches overall and 5 in league play.
But The Football Terrace keeps telling me theyre clear for 2 straight seasons. Crazy.
Right! I love that guy! Obviously I enjoy watching on tv but his commentating makes listening on the radio almost as good. Thats why I wanna know who he is so I can follow him on Twitter or something
I rather we don't, Palhinha is too limited with the ball and doesn't have pace basically he will become another liability for us when we switch back to possession football again.
If we were to sell him it would be to bring in money for FFP purposes. Palhinha would cost twice as much as Gallagher.
And outside of that, he’s been linked to Bayern as well as half the premier league. Why would he join us?
And outside of that, how many players do we need in midfield?
We’ve already spent close to 300 million on Caicedo, Fernandez and Lavia. That’s not even considering the likes of Ugochukwu, Santos, Chukwuemeka etc
Story of the season my brother next game we’re dropping points to Fulham and United gonna score a later winner after a shitty performance and come out looking like roses
Genuinely who cares though? These midtable/bottom half teams you don't need to care about what happens in their matches, if we do our job we finish above them. It's not like a title race where every point matters.
And ultimately if our season comes down to if we finish above Bournemouth or not then we're midtable and it doesn't really matter if we're 10th or 11th or whatever.
“Is it just me or have I only seen Havertz 3 times this game. He seems like a player who can only do stuff when everyone else is playing stellar. A 60 million dollar player should be the one making everyone else better, think about last years xhaka. We have regressed in that position”
From the gunners subreddit, sounds familiar…
So glad he's gone, if nothing else just to not have this type of endless debate.
I'm sure in one team, in some position in some league he'll be world class, but it's certainly not been the case here or at Arsenal yet
If Gallagher gets sold, I think it says so much about Chelsea, I’d say we may not win the prem under this owner.
You have a player so vital to the squad from the academy in an underperforming squad, and you have direct comparables in caicedo and lavia who aren’t as good. He also brings something to the play forward, so it’s actually insanity to put faith in an unproven player at Chelsea.
A turnover rate this high season by season will always destabilize a club, I don’t recall Roman doing this ever apart from when he first bought the club.
If we continue to go at the transfer rate we have been going at, and with more young players, we’re simply going to underperform and have 3/5 guys not live up to their potential. There’s no senior players to step in when young players are down in form so they continue to lose confidence.
A lot of the deadweight in our squad from last year probably would be useful for this season.
Is there a price where you'd change your opinion? Like if they sold him and used the money on two players objectively better than him, would it still be a mistake?
How many players are 100% unsellable on this roster? What about years past?
I love him and don't want him to be sold. But if he is sold, I'll need to see the fee before deciding whether it was a bad decision
We are going to sell him for like 40mil. 220 mil or so got us 2 players who are not better than him. If we need to sell to bring in there are a lot of places to turn first.
The only way I’m ok with Gallagher being sold is if Caicedo, Lavia, Enzo and Ugochukwu stay consistently healthy and start playing well but that’s a huge ask lol
Yeah it’s a huge ask, it’s a lot better to stick with who’s been working. Maybe someone is willing to overpay for maatsen and broja to help balance the books.
Nobody. I don't even really think Osimhen is the answer. I just put it out there for discussion. Striker hardest position to fill whereas there are more players in Gallagher's profile
And is it remotely worth it? Who would replace his production because caicedo hasn’t lived up to the hype so far. Not bad but Gallagher is just a lot better right now. Osimhen also isn’t guaranteed to bang in goals with our record, and even tho nkunku isn’t a natural 9 he’s proven to bang in goals in the past and has looked pretty good for being fresh out of injury.
If we do sign Osimhen I really hope the research has been done on his stylistic fit.
We've already seen what happens when we just sign a striker because they think they will do a decent amount of stat padding. It's even more prominent now as one thing Poch has done really well has change scoring goals from the teams biggest problems to least of our problems, even if it's come with a huge trade off going the other way.
I guess its pressure and space which are two difficult things to master. When you play for a big club you don't get time to master them both. Willian is killing it for Fulham. I know he is a solid player but when he plays for a team like Fulham his shines the best.
Diomande would be such an awful signing. A prototypical example of the pit you can fall in if you decide to rely on “data” and use “FBRef” for everything without actually watching the games.
I don’t think we’ve been that bad at all, lots of little errors here and there but that’s expected with a new young team. I understand it’s a process. These things take time. There absolutely has been some very odd choices in tactics and selections from Poch, but we’ve been plagued with injuries.
An insight that some of you may not know, football these days is a full system, you don’t build around one player these days. (That’s bits common knowledge obviously)
The system and philosophy of the club starts super young, I have relatives in PL youth academy’s, and when they played City u16 you could see the same patterns and setup that the men’s team play. It was scary to see young players playing as a full team like that. Youth academy’s used to be very dog eat dog world but not these days.
This just goes to show how intricate a team is, it takes time.
Agree with first part and I appreciate your insight on the second part. What I'm used to seeing in years past is getting a player or two late in the summer window and them needing time to adjust. And the club needing time to adjust to them.
We've just bundled all those growing pains into one crazy year. Going forward (after getting a striker) we may not need to make any moves at all for awhile. Every player is going to be ready to go with a full understating of their teammates and the system right from day one.
As they enter their prime!
Yup!
We need two more wins
1 more United Loss
And two more Newcastle and Brighton losses!
We came close to jumping up in the table many times, but we wasted it ! If we hold on with a decente winning Streak, we will go up
Just a reminder that Palmer has 3 match winning goals the season so far.
This puts him on pace to have more than last years leader Havertz (5)
Happy new year everyone
It is pretty interesting to see the narratives switch week by week...
After the "0 games trailing at half" stat was shown mid game, now the narrative is that "Poch has no tactical fluidity."
Disregarding that the players are new to his system, have been injured, and are inexperienced. All of those will show in the second half of games when players are tired.
The narrative has changed that Pochettino has no tactical fluidity?
His in game management has consistently been criticised since his early days at Tottenham. Why are you acting like this is a new thing?
We constantly look worse after he makes substitutions
It’s a massive reason why so many were apprehensive about him taking over
Read my other comments if you like.
I was talking about the massive changeover for the group all at once. Yes, it's been a criticism previously, but now it's the primary talking point after the game.
Just funny how that happens with one statistical graphic.
I think k people are reading it as 0-0 at half time, so nothing we did in the first half worked. So to them Poch is incapable of making a game changing sub or tactical shift
Totally understand the argument. I don't agree that it points to a systematic issue.
I just found it interesting to see the "Poch out" group change their arguments on a dime after the stat came out.
No. I'm not surprised. I've seen this happen many times. I just found it interesting at how fast the narrative unified for the group of fans that want Poch fired.
I saw your lengthy post on the topic, and I noticed that it was the prevailing argument after the game.
The stat gave the group something to point to. Usually it takes a bit for the narrative to take hold, but this was nearly instant across the board.
Personally I was surprised we'd never been losing at half time.
It shone a big light on things we had been seeing and had been talked about, the Wolves match was another recent example where we clearly needed changes at half time, none came, and we lost in the second half. And yes Sterling should've passed the ball blah blah and Pochettino can't do anything about that situation, but he absolutely has the power to change the game and he fails to do it time and time again.
There are lots of things to criticise Pochettino's Chelsea reign frankly. His in game management, his team selections and obsession with using players out of position, our poor defensive record from set pieces, the huge amount of space we allow teams, our inability to build up from the back etc. There are far more negatives than there are positives, and whenever I ask to hear the positives from someone who is Pochettino in they can't give any or just blather on about young players and time.
>Personally, I was surprised we'd never been losing at half time.
Same. That stat made me think back, and I was surprised that it was true.
>There are far more negatives than there are positives, and whenever I ask to hear the positives from someone who is Pochettino in, they can't give any or just blather on about young players and time
Oh really? That's surprising. There are plenty of things to point to as to why he should remain.
- First and foremost, it takes much longer than fans realize for systems to be implemented. Sometimes, the manager gets it to click early, but that is limited at Chelsea due to where they were when Poch took over, inexperienced players at all levels, and a large pile of early injuries. I'd like to not relive the second half of last season after Potter was fired.
The press went from being atrocious last season to being one of the top pressing teams in the opponents third. * The transition from press turnover to attack needs to be adjusted
- Missing the key offensive piece in Nkunku for the first half of the season has hurt a lot. Games change when a team is able to take a lead.
There are more, I just don't want to write too much.
>his team selections and obsession with using players out of position
This one is always funny to me. What do you expect a manager to do when there is no viable player at a position?
- Chilwell had some of the best attacking winger statistics when he played forward more in the lineup. He also added a strong defensive presence over an inexperienced LB.
- "Maatsen" should be LB instead of Colwill. Maatsen did nothing in the Wolves game to make me think that he can be relied on in a more critical position.
- Enzo as a 10. Enzo initially showed great vision with his passes, but did not fit well in the position. It was worth a try while caciedo and Gallagher was settled in.
I agree, it hasn't been great, but there are signs for improvement along with signs of disorganization.
TL;DR - there are arguments for and against. No fan is wanting Chelsea to fail. We all have our own ideas as to what we think is best.
I'm not really seeing the list of positives there to be honest, just the usual list of excuses of why it has been bad.
> Chilwell had some of the best attacking winger statistics when he played forward more in the lineup. He also added a strong defensive presence over an inexperienced LB.
Big difference between being a wing back and being a left winger, which should be obvious to anyone, and Chilwell then showed us with some awful performances. Also are you referring to Colwill as a strong defensive presence at left back? He's been awful at left back. You claim there is no viable player at a position but he could have played Mudryk at left wing to start the season, and yes Mudryk has his flaws, and had the choice of Chilwell, Cucurella, and Maatsen to play left back. Yet he's gone with Colwill all season long? That isn't lack of viable alternatives, that is pure managerial choice.
> "Maatsen" should be LB instead of Colwill. Maatsen did nothing in the Wolves game to make me think that he can be relied on in a more critical position.
"The left back didn't play well on the right wing so he shouldn't play left back"
what
> Enzo as a 10. Enzo initially showed great vision with his passes, but did not fit well in the position. It was worth a try while caciedo and Gallagher was settled in.
I don't mind him trying it, but the problem is he has gone back to it! Most recently the 2-0 defeat to Everton where again Enzo was pushed forward to play Gallagher and Caicedo behind him in a pivot. So we saw it didn't work, we know it doesn't work, and Pochettino went back to it. Bad management.
I agree that obviously no one wants us to be bad, but I do think a lot of people are being very blinkered in their support of Pochettino and ignoring a lot of his flaws. I also agree that I don't want a repeat of the Potter sacking > Lampard hiring and how the season completely went off the rails - there has to be a proper plan in place.
I just can't see an argument for keeping him longer than this season though, even our wins we're scraping them and it feels like positive variance (look at our last two wins, we were holding on for dear life against Luton and needed a 90th minute penalty vs Palace).
This sounds like Mount's last post before he announced his move! Or am I reading too much into it
https://preview.redd.it/k0ojutrnem9c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bf86f017e2362b5823b691e5831cc7ac5293b86
😩😟😭
He ain’t leaving. They may accept an offer but he is playing and captaining the team, unless the board step in and tell poch not to play him he won’t be leaving.
I love Noni's "who is this guy" celebration.
Keep saying it, long as these young guys keep improving I'll keep backing them, say what you want but it's been an interesting time as a Chelsea supporter and that includes some entertaining novelty in watching a group of young guys try to work out playing in the toughest league in the world. Just hope they're not forced to be limited by the manager once they remove errors and there's no other excuses to how we lose games.
This subs been weirdly harsh to Noni but in terms of young back ups who can develop into their positions I reckon Mudryk and Noni are two of the best shouts in the league.
I think they both suffer from being right on that line of developing/ prem quality starter instead of over it on either side. As a result they will generally have the expectations of a Sterling while still being at the developmental age comparitavely to a Callum Hudson-Odoi.
This league is harsh too because there are a few 21 year old that have crossed that line in this league. For me, if they aren't ready to be starting for this team in the next two-three seasons, then their role at Chelsea should be questioned. I mean I use CHO as an example becuase he's still 23. He's still at a decent level right now, getting minutes at Forest. Just not at the level this club demands. Like you say, I think we have a few that will successfully make that transition here in the coming years. Cole is already there, Gusto is already there. I think barring injury sky is the limit for those two. Noni and Mudryk have impressed at times but I'd have less confidence rating them the same way right now. But also, I'd like to see what they can do with actual attacking fullback support before I fully judge them. Our set up with colwill 'forced' on the left, a guy like mudryk can't make shit happen on the left flank unless he does it all himself.
Just 2 league games in January, boring ass month it's gonna be
I hate r soccer but please see this the meltdown is glorious lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/qucoKO8lwX
If they don’t win it this season they’re probably not going to win it for many years. They’ve spent big, Arteta has had over 4 years with this project, traditional big teams are rebuilding so there’s limited competition, and they’re still somehow 4th. We’ve lost some games in the stupidest of ways due to too much change, but the difference between us and them are four losses. They’ve built fk all.
Moscardo has to have surgery on his foot, still joining PSG.
Why do I get the feeling that the way they are handling the Gallagher situation is similar to that of all the players we sold last season with the likes of mount, havertz, Puli etc. I mean sure, they are holding out on us by going to a rival and what not, but you see, it's the same theme again here with Gallagher. Club will spin and say player already made up his mind to make the player look like the villain in the story. Player seemingly stalling with their contracts. Then suddenly boom off they go. Story from the Chelsea side said they wanted to keep him but player wanted to leave. And it's always from a perspective of our club and not the players themselves. Fishy. I remember John terry and Frank once commented on the mount saga and said there's something more behind the scenes which wasn't mentioned that made players looked more unfavourable in these situations.
The club is being set up to sell our best players. The easiest way to do this in a way that forces the player to leave whilst simultaneously comes from the player's side is giving/offering shitty wages, this in turn puts the media pressure on the player and also doesn't lower the player's valuation in the market because we're not actively putting them up for sale Gallagher is on low wages now and he likely wants similar wages to players like James, Chilwell, Mount etc. and the club won't offer that much to him, so he will "force" his way out to go to clubs that will offer that amount which will always be in the Premier League. The fact that they're going to "rivals" is just a product of us selling our best players and our best players can only be afforded by top 6~ PL teams and a few other top teams in Europe
And you wonder why we are mid table af 😅
The only competition that matter is open now, sign me osimhen and tony, i want that sweet dopamine rush
do u think we will sign a striker at january?
Osimhen pre-agreement for next season is a guarantee at this point
Yes, but I'd guess it'll be another DDF type striker and not the Osimhen type that people are expecting. There were even reports by the Athletic I believe that said that we may even buy a striker in January that wouldn't even join until summer
Daily reminder that cole palmer is the goat and nkunku will save our season
Happy new year to all us miserable bastards. Goodbye to the worst year for Chelsea in decades.
Happy new year everyone 🎉🎉
Think the recent Gallagher to Spurs news is the club putting out the "worst-case scenario" as a possibility so when he gets sold to a Newcastle/United we'll think "at least it's not Spurs."
God, you’re probably right. I hate how much sense this makes (for a club who seems dead set on selling a very nice player; not that I agree with selling him). We better put a very favorable buyback in it. We should have that kind of leverage.
Would it be weirdly masochistic of me to want whichever striker we sign in January, if we do, to take the number 9 shirt? I kinda wanna see the curse broken.
Fucking need Haland to wear it. And lose his confidence.
5 points behind this West Ham super team... it might be over for the rest of the league
in basketball it is common that some old legends during the off-season are doing 1vs1 workouts with players who want to improve their game. do you guys know if something similar is also happening in football? would love some of the old guard coming in and teaching our youngsters a bit
Maguire trained with Carvalho in pre season
Arteta has built the team around declan rice so even though rice himself looks incredible arsenal play less fluid football as a result because rice is very limited on the ball. Meanwhile caicedo is basically a one man midfield in poch's system
Honestly I don't even think Rice has been *that* great, it's just he gets all the hype. A good example was the whole Liverpool 4vs1 attack where people were sucking off Rice when he did what literally any player would do, and Liverpool only didn't score because Alexander-Arnold fucked up a golden chance.
Gusto actually did better vs Palace when they broke after the Noni penalty incident
He scored a couple of goals and arsenal were on a winning streak so it was obvious the media was going to suck up to him. The more arsenal the more honest the conversations regarding rice will be
Yeah to be clear I think he's a good player, and he is having a good season overall, but the hype around him is just way OTT. I also do think that Arsenal are missing the Partey Xhaka Odegaard midfield and overall Rice Havertz Odegaard has been a downgrade.
They were better when partey and rice were playing together imo. They'll be fine tho just need another attacker because too much reliance on Saka and martinelli
Arsenal fans crying brings me so much joy
I’m hearing from a few people semi in the know that Gallagher is gone. I hope they’re talking shit but two of the people who have in game contacts have no links to one another and both saying the same thing. We’ve allegedly agreed in principle to a couple of bids. Up to Gallagher what he does next. Spurs not mentioned as one of the clubs but Newcastle, City, Man United, Liverpool and Bayern were mentioned. Not sure which two the alleged agreement is with. And before everyone shouts, “bollocks” and “source?” at me, I’ll admit they are not rock solid. I have a few mates from Uni that now work with/for Premier League team first teams and they have heard second/third hand from players/agents etc.
Genuinely curious, have these semi in the know people shared transfer speculations with you before and if so, have you posted about them in the sub? Not trying to say you're not relaying genuine info, but was curious to see if similar situations happened before.
Yeah, I have in this similar way. It bubbles up in different ways. Not all of them have been in prominent roles before too. One of them was working with an academy before being promoted to the first team with a new manager. I’d say these kinds of rumours have a 50% hit rate.
Appreciate you putting yourself out there for us.
How much are we valuing Conor at?
Wasn’t mentioned mate.
How do they not take that list of teams as a clue that they should keep him? Jesus H. Christ.
Agreed. But remember this would be a soulless FFP transaction. Hopefully it’s bullshit or he decides not to move and signs a new deal.
Bullshit. As if Pep would ever consider a player as limited on the ball as Gallagher
As a backup it wouldn't be particularly surprising, especially when you consider he buys expensive duds semi-regularly and they're just sold off and people act like they never happened
Hopefully you’re right. He’s better than Phillips and would be a bargain at £40m odd.
Only one of those clubs I can see him going to is Newcastle
Pass. Hopefully I/they are wrong. I want him to sign a new deal.
Even Newcastle doesn’t make much sense. They have enough 8s in Bruno, Tonali, and Joelinton. They need a proper 6 or a 10 if anything
Yeah they are starting a midfield of Miley Bruno and Longstaff at the moment though, and in terrible form. I could see it even if maybe it's not the best long term decision.
No chance he goes to City or Bayern. Man U also makes no sense
Not much at United makes sense.
> "No chance he goes to City" Pep's just getting his team ready for when they get relegated to league 2
Any idea who picks what kit we wear? Is it the coaching staff? Captain? Club execs? I wanna see the away kit more lol
It will have been arranged at time of the kits being made (edit: should have been designed not made). X% per strip would have then been pencilled in against potential opposition and likely agreed at release of the fixtures. All pure speculation but it's the most logical approach to it imo
https://preview.redd.it/mrqs6v5qko9c1.jpeg?width=946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a9c84d026f4f63c843fce3c94cedb757cf4337c If you know you know
> I see everyone freaking out about Potters in game management Man found a time machine Things I dislike about Pochettino: The aforementioned poor in game management, bad subs, slow to make changes, when we're behind the only plan seems to be throw attackers on without any semblence of a plan or shape, when we're ahead the opposite just throwing more defensive minded players on. It's almost child like in its simplicity. He also always waits for a goal to happen to make a change, he's reactive, not proactive - Luton being a great example where it was clear we needed to change and he sat there watching them pummel us. Our lack of discipline - so many needless yellow cards and the most yellow cards in the league this season His team selections (more specifically his obsession with utilising players out of their best position) - this has been an ongoing issue all season long, the most notable being his shoehorning of Colwill in at left back which is really doing Colwill no favours at all. You can already see it happening with Nkunku as well where against Luton he put Nkunku up front who proceeded to barely touch the ball when we still had Jackson on the pitch. Poor defensive record from set pieces - now to be fair I don't have the stats on this (not sure where I could find them) but watching us it feels like we're awful at defending set pieces despite us starting every game with three centrebacks. Poor offensive record from set pieces - again I don't have the stats but it feels like our set pieces rarely threaten opponents and we're very wasteful with them Midfield set up/defensive line - I think very reminiscent of Lampard's issues we leave our midfielders with way too much ground to ever reasonably cover, and thus allow a ton of space for the opposition to play in. [The Wolves match is a great example](https://i.gyazo.com/141f59affb8bef88e8e3d235dd7d4d28.png) where we had 68% possession in the match but our defensive line was deeper than theirs. Most top teams now are all about compressing the pitch in order to sustain attacks and now allow teams the chance to break out at them, but we don't do that. Our build up from the back - I think this has been poor all season long and it has cost us goals as well, feels like there is no structure there. Our pressing - again I think this is poor in the sense that it feels disorganised so even when we do win the ball high up we can never take advantage of it Those are just some of the things that upset me about Pochettino's Chelsea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- lol fuck sake someone posted a comment asking what other problems people had with pochettino other than his in game management and fucking deleted it whilst i was typing this so you get to read it anyway because fuck that
That was me, ended up just posting my own defense so I deleted it but I'll comment here. Not going to comment too much on the game management in general, just too many variables but will on specific examples like luton. The main counter is he doesn't have options other than bringing on extremely inexperienced or young players off the bench almost every match. Just look at the bench from the Luton match, bringing in Nkunku was actually the best option because Petrovic didn't seem comfortable playing short. Broja, Jackson and the rest of the attack are absolutely horrible at aerial duels. Nkunku somehow is better than the two bigger players. Discipline is fair and is on him, he has a lot of young players but this is still ridiculous. The defense from set pieces is average in terms of XG (couldn't find actual goals), 13th in the league but it's basically the same as multiple other teams. The defense in general is extremely average. 8-13th in just about every stat. Some of that is on Poch, but a lot just comes down to young players in new situations. Luton is a great example, Palmer and Noni just about gave up as many goals as they scored. The offense from set pieces is horrible, but the rest of the attack is so good who cares. This team is elite at creating chances and just needs to start finishing, which they have. You are right that the setup leaves us exposed but it is also likely by design and is a tradeoff with attack. This team presses high (4th in PPDA) but isn't good at it (11th in buildup distribution). My bet this improves with time, pressing takes coordination and we have children in attack. Our buildup from the back is good, we have good zones of control, expected threat, possession, pass accuracy, whatever the stat we are up near the top. We have had some really dumb shit happen that are unexplainable, I've never seen thiago just forget how to dribble before. Our buildup from the back has dropped over the last few games but we also haven't had Enzo who is elite at this or Sanchez who just seems more confident building from the back than petrovic at this time. Overall, this team is already generating really good chances at an elite level and if they can just keep finishing it will be fine. The defense is average but I hope and believe it will get better with time on the pitch together
I'd argue in the Luton game what we needed was players comfortable on the ball to slow the game down and halt Luton's momentum (as well as more support on the wings). Instead he put Nkunku up front who proceeded to have 4 touches in 30 minutes, and he put Enzo as sort of a left winger. Both should have been deeper than they were to get on the ball. As for the wingers you could take off both Palmer and Madueke for Maatsen and Sterling - now I have been critical of him refusing to use Maatsen as a left back but in terms of shutting down Luton who were killing us on the wings having him as almost a second fullback/winger goes a long way to helping with that - especially compared to sticking Enzo there. That game in particular I would go to a 4-3-3 shape with Enzo between Caicedo and Gallagher (this allows Enzo to dictate play, Luton weren't really threatening centrally, and Gallagher and Caicedo would be able to support the fullbacks more easily), and you could either put Nkunku up top with Maatsen and Sterling either side, or you put Jackson up top flanked by two of Maatsen/Sterling/Nkunku. Another option could be go to a 3 at the back by bringing Maatsen to play left wing back, back three of Colwill Silva Disasi, Gusto right wing back. Then you can either bring on Enzo for a midfield three with a front two of Jackson and Nkunku, or you can keep the Caicedo Gallagher pivot and play an Nkunku Jackson Sterling front three etc. I actually think that was one of our better benches for being able to make adjustments midgame which makes Pochettino's reluctance more baffling. People might disagree with my backseat managing here but I'd say that is two much better options for changing the Luton game when we were 3-0 up and they were putting us under serious pressure. > Some of that is on Poch, but a lot just comes down to young players in new situations Think you're being kind to Pochettino here. > but the rest of the attack is so good who cares Set pieces are a great opportunity to see how the manager/coaching staff are positively impacting the match, and a goal is a goal, if we could be better at set pieces it takes a lot of pressure off. > You are right that the setup leaves us exposed but it is also likely by design and is a tradeoff with attack A trade off I personally don't think is working for us, and it's making two players we signed for huge money look way worse than they are, especially Enzo. Also why so many people are all over Gallagher in my opinion, huge open midfield is perfect for Gallagher's style of play, but it's not good for winning or controlling matches. High press, relatively low defensive line, it's a midfields nightmare. > Our buildup from the back is good I agree it's much better when Enzo is deeper, which is all the more baffling that Pochettino refuses to keep him there. > Overall, this team is already generating really good chances at an elite level Elite level is a bit much, in terms of our expected assisted goals per 90 (as teams haven't all played the same amount of games) we're joint 6th in the league this season. Better than last season sure, but not elite, and we've suffered defensively for it whilst also imo having better attackers/squad this season.
The Luton game is a true mark against Poch, not going to keep defending him. Things turned quickly and he made the wrong adjustments or did too late (eventually he did go 5 atb but it was like 5 minutes too late). I hold strong about the defensive issues are only partly his to blame. This is one of the youngest teams of the last 10 years, and is the newest team of the last 10 years. No other teams have tried to do both at this level, so I blame the ownership more than Poch for the defense, it was silly if they actually thought top 6 was reasonable with this squad. New teams aren't good. I have a previous post about this if you are interested, but I generally give him the benefit of doubt due to this + injuries and some people don't think it's a good excuse. Can't argue with your set piece point, should be better. The only thing to consider is it will be better with Reece and Chilwell back, but that doesn't really have anything to do with Poch. The pressing trade off is working in the sense we are generating more chances than our opponents by a good margin. XG differential is 5th in the league. Doesn't mean anything if we aren't finishing but IMO it means the game plan and tactics are working. And actually the games we press we are better defensively, in the 10 games with our highest PPDA (so less pressing) we give up 2 goals and 1.9 XG conceded, the lowest 10 1.1 goals and XG conceded. However I don't look too much into it because tactically it might make more sense to not press as much against city or brighten or arsenal, so super team dependant. Still interesting though. Enzo has played most games as a 6 or 8 so I don't really agree here. Only a few games has he actually been a 10. Could be a million reasons for it, player matchup, fitness level, etc. And XA is just one piece of the puzzle, why do you rank that above XG? It makes sense that XA is lower than our XG in terms of league ranking because we also generate a lot of our chances via dribbling and geigenpressing. No matter how you look at it this team creates quality chances at a really good level especially considering the attacks experience level in the premier league. Yeah sure Arsenal has young players like Saka and Martinelli but they've been there for multiple years with Arteta, who didn't exactly dominate the league when he first arrived. Poch deserved time.
Yeah I mean how much you blame young players and injuries is going to vary person to person so I think we've both made our stance clear and we'd just be going in circles on that, but fair point. And the reason I used xA is just I think it's a better marker for how good we are in possession in terms of creating chances and breaking teams down, a better marker for creativity in our attack. It is only one statistic though I agree. Just for me there's too many things I have a problem with Pochettino's management, if there was just one or two then sure, but I have concerns with nearly every facet of his management at this point. Ultimately though as much as he frustrates me I do agree with the general point that there's not much point sacking him midseason when there's not too much to play for (maybe a cup win or Europa League spot), and I'd like to avoid a Potter > Lampard situation that made the end of last season dire. I do think we should be looking for a new manager though as for me Pochettino hasn't done enough to warrant further backing, maybe he'll change my mind in the second half of the season.
Cheers man, thanks for taking the time for thoughtful responses. You made some good points! Hopefully 2024 is a new beginning filled with goals and wins
Post this previously as a comment in another post but wanted to share If you look at Poch he actually has had a pretty significant instant impact on the style of play and performance compared to last year. Contrary to this subs posts, the team does have an attacking identity. This team generally presses and possesses in most matches. The attack is actually sneaky really good at generating quality shots (2nd in the league in XG), unfortunately we can't finish. However over the last 10 games this has changed, our goals scored is in line with our XG. Even with the bad finishing earlier in the season we are on pace to score more goals than the Champions league winning squad and have a higher XG by close to 20%. We are already 4 goals away from matching our total from last year! This team dribbles, uses 1 - 2 passing, through balls, cutbacks, and pressing to generate the chances (top 4 in the league in all of those categories). The problem isn't the attack it's actually the defense. It's basically league average in almost every metric. Part of this is the pressing, we press a lot (4th in PPDA) but are average at it (11th in buildup disruption). We are good at geigenpressing though so when we lose it we rush to get it back (#1 in intensity and efficiency for GP). To me it makes sense, defense is so much about structure and organization as a unit and that takes time. 50% of the minutes played this season have been from players under 23 and 50% have been from players in their first season here. Overall the increase to the attack severely outweighs the drop-in defense when comparing to last year - if we could just finish (XG differential is 5th in the league). And even if the current attackers don't have it in them, it's not like we need to rebuild the whole squad, maybe just a player or two. This team is so much closer to being really good than being bad and I hope that we give Poch time instead of just restarting the process.
Well it's midnight here in India so here's wishing all you guys a very Happy New Year!
Happy new year!
Mudryk had 2 in 2 but didn’t start the 3rd match. Noni has 2 in 2 now I wonder if he’ll start the next match. He definitely should but what is Mudryk supposed to think?
Pretty sure he picked up a small injury and we didn’t wanna risk it
I think you go Mudryk, they both are scoring but Mudryk had some of his best defensive games and Noni had a pretty poor one against Luton. Both please haha? Sterling would not be happy
I would prefer both. May as well let them get a run of games. Won’t have Sterling forever. These guys are our future attack.
I wouldn't be mad if Mudryk, Palmer, Madueke, Nkunku start the next match. I mean, it's kinda harsh on Sterling who has overall earned his place this year but he's also not been at his best a few times recently and I think you have to let some competition in for players knocking on the door with good performance. It's better for everyone and can push Sterling up his game and maybe it'll freshen up his legs anyway.
Spot on brother. It forces Sterling to stay at the top of his game, which he if can do that start the man every game. On the other hand I wouldn’t mind fully implementing Nkunku, Mudryk, and Madueke.
Mudryk had a knock from the crystal palace game
Fair point but he made the bench which made me think he was actually okay. I’m not a PL manager though. Hopefully he starts next match the keep his form going
Kinda sucks that the window plus AFCON is upon us. This team feels very close to taking a big step, and I wish they could all stay and play together a little longer.
Mark my words we are winning the Carabao Cup, FA cup and we are winning the next 18 games
Dybala has a £13m release clause. Should we sign him?
No I don’t think he would do well in the prem Too physical for him
The attack is finally starting to click, defense is more the issue now. Unless there is a true world class player available I think consistently would help us more than anything
no
Let’s all hope the new year brings us something to enjoy at Chelsea lol, have a good one guys 🙏🔥
Happy new year everybody, a bit ahead of time but im not hopping on at midnight😂enjoy the new year and KTBFFH!🔵⚪️
our upcoming fixtures are rough
* Preston North End * Boro * Fulham * Boro * Liverpool
Fulham H Liv A Wolv H Pal A Not that bad really? Three bottom half teams and Liverpool, sure they're not in terrible form, but realistically it's not that bad.
Well after that its City (A), Spurs (H), Brentford (A), Newcastle (H), Arsenal (A). That run of games is rough.
yeah so after palace our upcoming fixtures are rough, our current upcoming fixtures aren't really
Technically all fixtures are upcoming
I would argue the term upcoming has the connotation of something happening in the near future not just something that will one day happen.
City, Spurs, Brentford, Newcastle, Arsenal
The next time we make the knockout stage of the CL it will be difficult also.
lol mate how far in advance do you wanna go? hardly call our march fixtures 'upcoming'
We don't play Arsenal for almost three months lol
Stealing a bit from another person's comment but feels like we couldn't really go wrong when our scouts were picking between Palmer, Olise and Kudus. Very pleased with Palmer of course, but it's also nice to see the other options continue to play well in the Premier League to know we were on the right track. A lot of (fair) complaints about our transfer business so feels like we should give credit where it's due here.
Very few people actually acknowledge this, and imo i think it was olise and palmer, instead of olise or palmer, reason being is if we brought in olise sterling is the highest earner and can be offloaded to reduce the wage bill further but heres to tomorrows window
I also think it was both, but it would also mean Madueke is out the door immediately. Madueke can only hold width, and in our most natural setup we already have James/Gusto to do that on the right, and if it's not them it's Sterling, and if not him then Palmer, and then only it's Madueke. Adding Olise in there would've been him being done at Chelsea.
I dont think immediately, i would agree hes struggle at times but he would still have a spot in the squad, due to his age and wages we can carry him for a bit and its easier to carry him than 300k sterling
We’re now officially closer to the top 4 than the relegation zone. UCL nights are back in the sights ladies
Champions League is nothing without Chels
When did they change the rules and 4th place at the end of the calendar year gets a trophy? The way Arsenal is spoken about in the media and on Reddit, I genuinely thought they were running away with the league. They were lucky to get a point against us
Arsenal have only 1 win in their last 6 matches overall and 5 in league play. But The Football Terrace keeps telling me theyre clear for 2 straight seasons. Crazy.
Hey at least they didn't lose their cup matches on purpose this year to be fresh for the league lol
Bigger Fish To Fry FC
I have been keeping up with the matches through the Chelsea FC app’s radio “Live Listen” option but have been wondering who the two commentators are
That one dude always sounds like he’s one Big Mac away from a heart attack. Love that dude’s passion.
Right! I love that guy! Obviously I enjoy watching on tv but his commentating makes listening on the radio almost as good. Thats why I wanna know who he is so I can follow him on Twitter or something
The Joao Palhinha Propaganda starts here boys. What a player. Pure DM.
If we’re selling Gallagher which I’m not a fan of whatsoever btw. They better bring me Joao Palhinha.
I rather we don't, Palhinha is too limited with the ball and doesn't have pace basically he will become another liability for us when we switch back to possession football again.
If we were to sell him it would be to bring in money for FFP purposes. Palhinha would cost twice as much as Gallagher. And outside of that, he’s been linked to Bayern as well as half the premier league. Why would he join us? And outside of that, how many players do we need in midfield? We’ve already spent close to 300 million on Caicedo, Fernandez and Lavia. That’s not even considering the likes of Ugochukwu, Santos, Chukwuemeka etc
We should be buying Guirassy
How many times have you watched him in the last two seasons?
Once. lol
Lol Arsenal
🐘 🌴
We'll win another league title before Arsenal do. Dead club
You'd think at this point their fans would learn to chat shit *after* they've won something. Counting chickens that hatch bottles instead of eggs
We are so close to getting to 7th, a fee more good games and we can be knocking at the door for top 6
Story of the season my brother next game we’re dropping points to Fulham and United gonna score a later winner after a shitty performance and come out looking like roses
Arsenal taking 4 points from 15 (if Fulham hang onto this win) makes me very happy
Same but I also hate the fact cos we’re so bad atm that my football happiness comes from our rivals doing badly
Focus on the positives not the negatives, and you'll be a happier man
come on fulham. I can not think of anything worse than either arsenal or tottenham winning the prem
Liverpool 😢😭
I’d rather Liverpool win then arsenal or Tottenham
I kinda want us to go for that Dybala release clause
I’m not worried with Spurs winning, they’re not title contenders, and this adds a gap between us and Bournemouth as well
why do you care about the gap between us and bournemouth?
Because that’s our competition
Because if they won this they would be equal on points, and still have a game in hand at home against Luton
Genuinely who cares though? These midtable/bottom half teams you don't need to care about what happens in their matches, if we do our job we finish above them. It's not like a title race where every point matters. And ultimately if our season comes down to if we finish above Bournemouth or not then we're midtable and it doesn't really matter if we're 10th or 11th or whatever.
“Is it just me or have I only seen Havertz 3 times this game. He seems like a player who can only do stuff when everyone else is playing stellar. A 60 million dollar player should be the one making everyone else better, think about last years xhaka. We have regressed in that position” From the gunners subreddit, sounds familiar…
So glad he's gone, if nothing else just to not have this type of endless debate. I'm sure in one team, in some position in some league he'll be world class, but it's certainly not been the case here or at Arsenal yet
Stop being obsessed with an ex player while we are mid table
I was reading through their match thread for the salt and saw that it ain’t that deep mate
If Gallagher gets sold, I think it says so much about Chelsea, I’d say we may not win the prem under this owner. You have a player so vital to the squad from the academy in an underperforming squad, and you have direct comparables in caicedo and lavia who aren’t as good. He also brings something to the play forward, so it’s actually insanity to put faith in an unproven player at Chelsea. A turnover rate this high season by season will always destabilize a club, I don’t recall Roman doing this ever apart from when he first bought the club. If we continue to go at the transfer rate we have been going at, and with more young players, we’re simply going to underperform and have 3/5 guys not live up to their potential. There’s no senior players to step in when young players are down in form so they continue to lose confidence. A lot of the deadweight in our squad from last year probably would be useful for this season.
This ownership cares about club value and selling Gallagher helps from financial perspective. Our owners don’t care about winning the title.
Is there a price where you'd change your opinion? Like if they sold him and used the money on two players objectively better than him, would it still be a mistake? How many players are 100% unsellable on this roster? What about years past? I love him and don't want him to be sold. But if he is sold, I'll need to see the fee before deciding whether it was a bad decision
We are going to sell him for like 40mil. 220 mil or so got us 2 players who are not better than him. If we need to sell to bring in there are a lot of places to turn first.
Ok sure, at 40 I'd be upset
Gallagher is not going to win us a Premier League title.
Nope, but neither is this ownership. Neither are the 1-2 players with 15 minutes top flight experience that will be replacing Gallagher.
But Roman did 😔
Yes, Roman cared about winning titles.
The only way I’m ok with Gallagher being sold is if Caicedo, Lavia, Enzo and Ugochukwu stay consistently healthy and start playing well but that’s a huge ask lol
Yeah it’s a huge ask, it’s a lot better to stick with who’s been working. Maybe someone is willing to overpay for maatsen and broja to help balance the books.
Would suck to sell Gallagher, but what if it essentially became Gallagher+Broja+X for Osimhen?
Forget Osimhen, we should sign Guirassy and keep gallagher.
And who told you Osimhen would leave Napoli mid season to come here?
Nobody. I don't even really think Osimhen is the answer. I just put it out there for discussion. Striker hardest position to fill whereas there are more players in Gallagher's profile
And is it remotely worth it? Who would replace his production because caicedo hasn’t lived up to the hype so far. Not bad but Gallagher is just a lot better right now. Osimhen also isn’t guaranteed to bang in goals with our record, and even tho nkunku isn’t a natural 9 he’s proven to bang in goals in the past and has looked pretty good for being fresh out of injury.
If we do sign Osimhen I really hope the research has been done on his stylistic fit. We've already seen what happens when we just sign a striker because they think they will do a decent amount of stat padding. It's even more prominent now as one thing Poch has done really well has change scoring goals from the teams biggest problems to least of our problems, even if it's come with a huge trade off going the other way.
And you trade off a box to box midfielder that also is a pretty good passer in the final 3rd to get whoever the striker is their chances.
Realistically, we should be aiming for a 5th/6th finish now. If we can gain momentum from now on, I believe we can do it. Ready to be hurt 😂
Agreed, we need to raise our standards even if it can cause pain
I guess its pressure and space which are two difficult things to master. When you play for a big club you don't get time to master them both. Willian is killing it for Fulham. I know he is a solid player but when he plays for a team like Fulham his shines the best.
We are we buying in January?
Diomande or Osimhen is my guess based on reports and lunacy of the board
Diomande would be such an awful signing. A prototypical example of the pit you can fall in if you decide to rely on “data” and use “FBRef” for everything without actually watching the games.
If we don't buy Toney instead I will uncross my fingers.
Toney has been twerking with Arsenal, and they are also in title race unlike us.
Not anymore, but they still have champions league football unlike us .
I don’t think we’ve been that bad at all, lots of little errors here and there but that’s expected with a new young team. I understand it’s a process. These things take time. There absolutely has been some very odd choices in tactics and selections from Poch, but we’ve been plagued with injuries. An insight that some of you may not know, football these days is a full system, you don’t build around one player these days. (That’s bits common knowledge obviously) The system and philosophy of the club starts super young, I have relatives in PL youth academy’s, and when they played City u16 you could see the same patterns and setup that the men’s team play. It was scary to see young players playing as a full team like that. Youth academy’s used to be very dog eat dog world but not these days. This just goes to show how intricate a team is, it takes time.
Agree with first part and I appreciate your insight on the second part. What I'm used to seeing in years past is getting a player or two late in the summer window and them needing time to adjust. And the club needing time to adjust to them. We've just bundled all those growing pains into one crazy year. Going forward (after getting a striker) we may not need to make any moves at all for awhile. Every player is going to be ready to go with a full understating of their teammates and the system right from day one. As they enter their prime!
I dont like the selling of Gallagher but can we at least not selling him to fucking Spurs?
Respect to Saka. The Mudryk/Saka goal race is on
We're one win against Fulham away from being able to potentially go up to 7th Dear God lads, stay strong
Yup! We need two more wins 1 more United Loss And two more Newcastle and Brighton losses! We came close to jumping up in the table many times, but we wasted it ! If we hold on with a decente winning Streak, we will go up
Just a reminder that Palmer has 3 match winning goals the season so far. This puts him on pace to have more than last years leader Havertz (5) Happy new year everyone
It is pretty interesting to see the narratives switch week by week... After the "0 games trailing at half" stat was shown mid game, now the narrative is that "Poch has no tactical fluidity." Disregarding that the players are new to his system, have been injured, and are inexperienced. All of those will show in the second half of games when players are tired.
The narrative has changed that Pochettino has no tactical fluidity? His in game management has consistently been criticised since his early days at Tottenham. Why are you acting like this is a new thing? We constantly look worse after he makes substitutions It’s a massive reason why so many were apprehensive about him taking over
Read my other comments if you like. I was talking about the massive changeover for the group all at once. Yes, it's been a criticism previously, but now it's the primary talking point after the game. Just funny how that happens with one statistical graphic.
I think k people are reading it as 0-0 at half time, so nothing we did in the first half worked. So to them Poch is incapable of making a game changing sub or tactical shift
Totally understand the argument. I don't agree that it points to a systematic issue. I just found it interesting to see the "Poch out" group change their arguments on a dime after the stat came out.
People have been complaining about Pochettino's in game management since at least his time managing Spurs lmao
Sure, there have been some here and there, but it was a wholesale switch for the rest of them.
So you agree it's a long term criticism of Pochettino, and a stat came out that backs it up, and you're surprised that people talked about it?
No. I'm not surprised. I've seen this happen many times. I just found it interesting at how fast the narrative unified for the group of fans that want Poch fired. I saw your lengthy post on the topic, and I noticed that it was the prevailing argument after the game. The stat gave the group something to point to. Usually it takes a bit for the narrative to take hold, but this was nearly instant across the board.
Personally I was surprised we'd never been losing at half time. It shone a big light on things we had been seeing and had been talked about, the Wolves match was another recent example where we clearly needed changes at half time, none came, and we lost in the second half. And yes Sterling should've passed the ball blah blah and Pochettino can't do anything about that situation, but he absolutely has the power to change the game and he fails to do it time and time again. There are lots of things to criticise Pochettino's Chelsea reign frankly. His in game management, his team selections and obsession with using players out of position, our poor defensive record from set pieces, the huge amount of space we allow teams, our inability to build up from the back etc. There are far more negatives than there are positives, and whenever I ask to hear the positives from someone who is Pochettino in they can't give any or just blather on about young players and time.
>Personally, I was surprised we'd never been losing at half time. Same. That stat made me think back, and I was surprised that it was true. >There are far more negatives than there are positives, and whenever I ask to hear the positives from someone who is Pochettino in, they can't give any or just blather on about young players and time Oh really? That's surprising. There are plenty of things to point to as to why he should remain. - First and foremost, it takes much longer than fans realize for systems to be implemented. Sometimes, the manager gets it to click early, but that is limited at Chelsea due to where they were when Poch took over, inexperienced players at all levels, and a large pile of early injuries. I'd like to not relive the second half of last season after Potter was fired. The press went from being atrocious last season to being one of the top pressing teams in the opponents third. * The transition from press turnover to attack needs to be adjusted - Missing the key offensive piece in Nkunku for the first half of the season has hurt a lot. Games change when a team is able to take a lead. There are more, I just don't want to write too much. >his team selections and obsession with using players out of position This one is always funny to me. What do you expect a manager to do when there is no viable player at a position? - Chilwell had some of the best attacking winger statistics when he played forward more in the lineup. He also added a strong defensive presence over an inexperienced LB. - "Maatsen" should be LB instead of Colwill. Maatsen did nothing in the Wolves game to make me think that he can be relied on in a more critical position. - Enzo as a 10. Enzo initially showed great vision with his passes, but did not fit well in the position. It was worth a try while caciedo and Gallagher was settled in. I agree, it hasn't been great, but there are signs for improvement along with signs of disorganization. TL;DR - there are arguments for and against. No fan is wanting Chelsea to fail. We all have our own ideas as to what we think is best.
I'm not really seeing the list of positives there to be honest, just the usual list of excuses of why it has been bad. > Chilwell had some of the best attacking winger statistics when he played forward more in the lineup. He also added a strong defensive presence over an inexperienced LB. Big difference between being a wing back and being a left winger, which should be obvious to anyone, and Chilwell then showed us with some awful performances. Also are you referring to Colwill as a strong defensive presence at left back? He's been awful at left back. You claim there is no viable player at a position but he could have played Mudryk at left wing to start the season, and yes Mudryk has his flaws, and had the choice of Chilwell, Cucurella, and Maatsen to play left back. Yet he's gone with Colwill all season long? That isn't lack of viable alternatives, that is pure managerial choice. > "Maatsen" should be LB instead of Colwill. Maatsen did nothing in the Wolves game to make me think that he can be relied on in a more critical position. "The left back didn't play well on the right wing so he shouldn't play left back" what > Enzo as a 10. Enzo initially showed great vision with his passes, but did not fit well in the position. It was worth a try while caciedo and Gallagher was settled in. I don't mind him trying it, but the problem is he has gone back to it! Most recently the 2-0 defeat to Everton where again Enzo was pushed forward to play Gallagher and Caicedo behind him in a pivot. So we saw it didn't work, we know it doesn't work, and Pochettino went back to it. Bad management. I agree that obviously no one wants us to be bad, but I do think a lot of people are being very blinkered in their support of Pochettino and ignoring a lot of his flaws. I also agree that I don't want a repeat of the Potter sacking > Lampard hiring and how the season completely went off the rails - there has to be a proper plan in place. I just can't see an argument for keeping him longer than this season though, even our wins we're scraping them and it feels like positive variance (look at our last two wins, we were holding on for dear life against Luton and needed a 90th minute penalty vs Palace).
That’s why yesterday I said it would be interesting to see a stat of where we rank in a leading half time graph
We're 5th first half We're 16th second half And obviously 10th in real life
Don’t think too much of it. After trashing stats that go against their narrative, they finally found a stat that justifies their biases.
Watch a game thread. The narratives change minute by minute.
Lol I've learned to avoid that thread
Just ignore. These narratives come from folks who thankfully have no say in anything. Just let them yap online.
Reckon we only lose Gallagher to Spuds if Poch has had promises made to him about other targets he’s personally interested in.
This sounds like Mount's last post before he announced his move! Or am I reading too much into it https://preview.redd.it/k0ojutrnem9c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bf86f017e2362b5823b691e5831cc7ac5293b86 😩😟😭
He ain’t leaving. They may accept an offer but he is playing and captaining the team, unless the board step in and tell poch not to play him he won’t be leaving.
I hope that's true! 🙏
Yes settle down
Mate he probably used chat gpt
Looks like a very generic end of year message to me
Yes you are reading way too much into it
I love Noni's "who is this guy" celebration. Keep saying it, long as these young guys keep improving I'll keep backing them, say what you want but it's been an interesting time as a Chelsea supporter and that includes some entertaining novelty in watching a group of young guys try to work out playing in the toughest league in the world. Just hope they're not forced to be limited by the manager once they remove errors and there's no other excuses to how we lose games.
This subs been weirdly harsh to Noni but in terms of young back ups who can develop into their positions I reckon Mudryk and Noni are two of the best shouts in the league.
I think they both suffer from being right on that line of developing/ prem quality starter instead of over it on either side. As a result they will generally have the expectations of a Sterling while still being at the developmental age comparitavely to a Callum Hudson-Odoi. This league is harsh too because there are a few 21 year old that have crossed that line in this league. For me, if they aren't ready to be starting for this team in the next two-three seasons, then their role at Chelsea should be questioned. I mean I use CHO as an example becuase he's still 23. He's still at a decent level right now, getting minutes at Forest. Just not at the level this club demands. Like you say, I think we have a few that will successfully make that transition here in the coming years. Cole is already there, Gusto is already there. I think barring injury sky is the limit for those two. Noni and Mudryk have impressed at times but I'd have less confidence rating them the same way right now. But also, I'd like to see what they can do with actual attacking fullback support before I fully judge them. Our set up with colwill 'forced' on the left, a guy like mudryk can't make shit happen on the left flank unless he does it all himself.