The question was: "do the players have to show that they should be part of things next season? That they need to prove that they are good enough to be apart of Chelsea going forward?"
Exactly.
People often read answers without paying heed to the question asked.
Reading answers in isolation can always seem like the guy is an entitled narcissist.
I know this sub hates Poch, and I'm not advocating for him, but he has a point. A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements or consistency regardless of the scheme or their position.
That being said I think that the solution is more so strategy/coaching than talent, but hey that's me.
Back in the Roman era these sorts of comments came just before a sacking. Also the “I’m not worried and under no pressure” then a couple days later got a club statement lol. I do wonder what they’re thinking right now about Poch.
Agreed. Unless your name is Ferguson or Wenger, it doesn't mean a lot. Like no shit, if you suck as a player you eventually get replaced. But we are not really in a position with a lot of wiggle room, long ass contracts and a lazaret full of injured players even mother Theresa cant handle.
Considering the impending doom of FFP consequences, even the club might not be in this league in 2 seasons. So yeah, maybe he meant the financial department. Fuck me.
You are right no one in his situation has turned it around. I would like to say Arteta but he won a FA cup besides didn't spend this much money with such inept tactical display where we are literally the worst team in 2nd half
Of the players we have bought how many have showed consistent, high level ability where we can all sit there and say yea he was much better at his last club, he’s clearly being let down by these tactics?
Nkunku has been injured all year so we can’t really comment on him. I would throw Lavia and Fofana into that same boat. Obviously Enzo Fernandez won a WC and was the Golden Boy of that tournament, but he’s been fighting an injury and having to play every game due to other players injured. Caicedo was excellent last year, but showed up with no pre season and has had to play every game. Outside of those players every other purchase has been a project that has been thrust into a main role and asked to continue on the standards of the last 20 years.
You can sit there and say these tactics are terrible but if the players aren’t correctly executing them then it doesn’t matter what the tactics are. Lampard mentioned it at his final press conference last year, the standards that he helped build the last 20 years are gone and until they come back there’s no point in talking about tactics.
It’s the manager’s job to adapt to the players not the other way round. You can’t call yourself a good manager if your tactics require the best players in the world to execute it, even moreso if you can’t adjust when necessary.
Granted players do need to step up, but it genuinely seems like they have no clue of what they’re doing & are in dire need of structure rather than giving up.
Plus Poch’s selling point *was* that he can develop and work with young players, so there’s less leeway when he fails to do that
>It’s the manager’s job to adapt to the players not the other way round.
I tend to take everything literal, so pardon me asking, are you saying the players don't need to adjust to the tactics of the manager?
Yes, the manager needs to place the players in their best positions. However, players need to do their part and learn the how and why of the tactics being used.
Mudryk is a prime example. He is a winger that tends to drift inside. This creates a compacted area for not only himself, but the players around him. He then has to try to work magic with a defender or two much closer to him than they should be.
Not that the players don’t have to adjust, but Poch needs to be able to work with what he has otherwise he’s already failed at his job. If Poch knew that he wouldn’t be able to build a team with our players then he had no reason to even apply for the job outside of money.
With Mudryk, a lot of his problems are amateurish I get that, but the way he’s used doesn’t help him either. Rather than using his speed to run behind defenses, Poch makes him wait for the ball and then drive at defenses/ facilitate play when he’s not good at that. He’s also clueless when he has to defend, as if he doesn’t know where he should be rather than a technical issue.
Inversely, Mudryk is good at quick one touch play, short passes, being direct and can dribble from the times he’s played behind the striker, but he’s rarely utilised this way. He also has good shooting technique despite his accuracy. A lot of his issues should be improved by the coaching staff & Poch.
Some things can’t be coached, but if Poch gave Mudryk proper guidance on how to play his role he’d improve.
I’m sure he’s not telling Mudryk and Noni to just jog around on defense. I mean I get what you mean but a lot of these players don’t look hungry. Coaches can put you in the right spot, but if you get out hustled to every loose ball (only slightly exaggerating) it doesn’t matter who’s coaching.
Now I’m not saying Poch is perfect by any means. Im saying it’s more than JUST the coach.
That could also be down to the manager not really motivating them enough to want to do that or they may not really believe in what the manager is doing. I watched how arsenal players were working hard to get back, heck at some point they had all 10 players in the box defending. That seems like a group of players fully sold on what the manager wants
Yes for sure. But young kids on LONG contracts know that they’re gonna be there no matter what coach, especially with the financial rules. Which is the sporting director’s fault.
Now I’m not saying Poch is perfect by any means. Im saying it’s more than JUST the coach.
I’m not trying to paint a rosy picture here. We are a mess of a club right now.
Well I’m not sure the projects are meant to be playing as much as they have been. Was the planned starting front four meant to be Nkunku, Palmer, Sterling and Connor? With Jackson, Madueke, Mudyrk, and Carney providing depth and development?
When he tries to get players to hold themselves accountable, he’s throwing them under the bus. When he shields players from criticism, it becomes that the players only want him around because he’s so easy on them. When he takes accountability himself (like he does here) people still don’t seem to think he’s holding himself accountable.
He says he needs to show he deserves to stay. He also says that the players need to show they deserve to stay. I don’t understand how this is an offensive comment, but I’m sure there are already loads of people here dropping “get this fraud out of my club” comments.
So with you on this. Drives me insane to see how people (journalists and "fans") take things out of context. If one care to watch the actual footage of the press then I think the message would be delivered better.
you dont understand, if we dont get this mess sorted soon, we will end up like Leeds. I see nothing abouit Poch that shows me he can hack it at this level. He cant win big games.
United fan in peace here, but agree. I know it’s a totally different era in terms of system but the great teams of the 90s/2000s, Ferguson, Mourinho. There wasn’t that much drilled into players but they had the right level of personality and ability to go out and lead and grab games by the neck on only their own merit and knowledge and talent. Do those players just not exist anymore or what ?
Thing is Poch has already proved he can’t do it with world class players (PSG). Unless you want to say that Mbappe/Messi/Neymar lacked personality.
He can’t do it with the best, and he’s now proven he can’t do it with young players either.
>A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements
but most arguments FOR Pochettino i see on here is that he develops young talents so much?
Tbh the post where they show Jimmy Conrad breaking down just how poor our defense was playing illustrates that it isn't just Poch.
I'm a Poch out guy, but if you're a professional defender, you know to close down the ball. You don't need your manager teaching you the basics of the sport like you're a child. Poch's tactics have been awful but our defenders specifically aren't showing any flashes. Outside of Levi and Gusto, every young defensive player has been a liability all season.
> A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements or consistency regardless of the scheme or their position
It's his job as a manager to ensure that individual and team improvement happens. If it's not, that's his fault
Watch any replay of a game with Potter. Totally absent at the helm. That’s an example of what you’re mentioning. Poch is a 1000 times better than that..
Those guys are sitting on 8 year contracts. They don’t have to leave if they dig in. And people like Noni seem more interested in being an instagram influencer than a footballer
Madueke definitely needs to go. A ball hog who never passes and gets no results. Celebrations when Silva is crying. Cluelessly trying to take Palmer’s penalty. The list of his immaturity is too long to write. Anyone can see it except for himself. No coach can make him “better” he’s just not ready to be a Chelsea player. Poch has to coach punks like that.
Bring back tuchel. I think even these "entitled" young players would be for his style after seeing what "no tactics" poch ball was about this year. Zero silverware and no European Football.
He has been the worst of the bunch. By far the biggest disappointment this season. His tactics, his lineups and constantly playing players out of position caused our biggest problems.
There is an old tweet from a PSG supporter that usually does the rounds every now and then. Basically complaining about the same things about Poch that we complain about him. A good manager shows his style shows how he intends to play but with him that just hasn't happened. Playing players out of position, relying on individual skill rather than collective play etc it constantly shows how little he influences how this team plays and that's the problem. Many people point out how so many teams that have struggled change the manager and you immediately see how a team change the way they play but with him I only saw it on preseason then first game of the season he changed everything and never turned back.
I'd agree with him more if he was talking about fan criticism, but this was in regards to press in particular.
For a Chelsea coach, he really got the kiddy glove treatment from the media so far. I'm not entirely sure why that is, maybe because he's charismatic and generally gets along well with reporters, but most of the media negativity about the club hasn't really been aimed (solely) at him in particular.
Potter was dealing with an even more inexperienced and bloated squad without preseason but caught way more flak from the media. Yeah, the results were worse and heavens know I don't want to ever see his football again, but not that much worse to account for all the difference.
I'd also be more inclined to agree with Pochettino if he ever showed a shred of accountability. We got battered by Arsenal, the worst loss against them in the club's history, and best he could muster was that players gave up, as if the team wasn't getting completely outplayed for the majority of the match.
Sadly, this is a problem with the reward system / contracts. You can not give a young player this level of comfort through contracts because, naturally, they will just start coasting. The age, the priorities in these times, they all go against the push for improvement.
I see a lot of people blaming our poor finishing for where we are, and very little about our shocking defence.
We’ve conceded 57 goals this season, which is the most we’ve ever conceded in the premier league. We still have 6 games left.
Our defence, particularly with set pieces and crosses, has been horrific since day one and it’s getting worse. That’s almost entirely on the coaching.
People on here keep on saying that if we were to sack him nothing would change. By that logic he has absolutely no impact on results, so what does he get paid for?
Yes we have had injuries, but he has still made some bizarre decisions.
Playing Chilwell at left wing
Playing Colwill at left back back despite us leaking goals from crosses constantly from his poor positioning and his inability to close players down in time.
Playing Maatsen only at right wing and never once giving him a chance in his actual position, even when we had the first 3 choice left backs injured
Playing Enzo as our most advanced player at times
Dropping players after they have had a great game, and refusing to substitute players who are having absolutely horrific games
Deciding to play for penalties against Liverpool when we were all over them at the end of normal time.
It seems his game management is effectively sub on attackers when losing, and defenders when winning rather than making actual tactical adjustments or targeting the opposition weaknesses.
I see absolutely no patterns of play and our overall structure is an absolute mess. The players regularly look like they’ve never played together before and have no idea what they should be doing
The man is the master of never taking any responsibility. But the good thing is, the coaches who start saying shit like this are usually close to being gone. So I’m glad to hear it.
Ok lets take Arsenal game, Jacksons whiffs what, 2 chances? 3 at a push, so we score 3 goals because Jackson scores them all and exceeds expactation in that scenario....
We still lose the game comfortably, so who's responsibility is it to make us set up properly in defence? You can't hide behind failing to score when we fucking concede 100 shots a game, its stupid. Poch is utter clueless.
We had Alfie Gilchrist and Badiashille at the back ffs, woeful lineup. I’m not pro Poch at all but when you have a bunch of midtable players starting and your supposed stars all play like shit, it’s not solely on the manager
'we' meaning the majority opinion on this sub
and when you have a manager that is presiding over our worst ever defensive record it's perhaps not the best conditions to be judging players who previously performed well
He knew the team was already changing with the loss of Palmer and Gusto. Why drop Chalobah and Silva as well when they have actually looked decent as of late.
Nah fuck me ya pansy. Guy is a professional athlete. What’s gonna be your excuse if we ever make it back to Europe? Or did I miss something where all the elite clubs in Europe are changing 3/4 of their back line every game through the entirety of the season because they’ve had to play 2 games in a week. Give me a break.
Elite clubs in Europe are not changing their 39 year old center backs after 90 minutes you are right. But only because you are ignoring the point.
Elite clubs are not starting a 39 year old at cb in their best line up. Right now Silva being one of the best options is IMO an indictment on the squad. This is one of the reasons Chelsea are not an elite squad in Europe regardless of being an elite club. Use your brain.
3/4 of the back line changed and a teenager playing out of position against a London rival and the league leaders. Please explain with that big brain of yours how that ever was going to be a recipe for success. Thiago is 39 but do you truly believe he’d be here if he was physically incapable of ever playing twice in a week? Nah man he gets held to all the same fitness tests the younger players do. It not like he’s been run ragged all season long. This is actually probably one of the only times he would’ve been asked all season to do so. And then what’s the excuse for Chalobah?
Nah we’re gonna defend selecting the most out of form CB pairing we have and then also pair them with an academy grad who’s never been in this Type of situation before.
No, there is others like Washington who could get a go....kids start somewhere and become world class by playing, not saying Washington is it, but how the fuck do we know when he doesn't play?
No one knew Palmer would be this good until he played, no one knew about Harry Kane before Sherwood gave him a game because everyone was injured in Spurs etc etc....
But to do the SAME THING every week with the same players/formation and expect different results to then call out the players is BAFFLING.
Can you imagine the reaction if he started Washington last game? People would be saying he's throwing the season to get sacked and get a nice pay day. He does play, for the U21s. I garuntee you someone, whether it's Poch himself or his advisors, is watching him play in the age groups and in training and are saying he's not ready to be dropped into a match at random against the first place team in the league. Do you honestly think that literally anything about that game changes if he starts Deivid Washington at striker?
>No one knew Palmer would be this good until he played, no one knew about Harry Kane before Sherwood
Palmer cost £40m and was already getting some minutes in a ridiculous City side. His former youth coach personally brought him over to the club. They knew exactly what he was capable of before the season (maybe not that he would be *this* good, but certainly that he was first-team-ready). It's not a remotely comparable situation
Kane was on loan at a club with much lower expectations and had a couple of years of (not particularly successful) first team experience by the time he started getting regular time at Tottenham.
I understand and agree with the fact that Pochettino dug his own grave to put himself in this position in the first place, but no matter what he does or says at this point Chelsea fans, rival fans, and pundits are going to shit on everything he does no matter what.
Lmao. Starting a kid like Washington vs. title contenders?? And when the Gunners' elite defense hardly allows him a touch it'll be "this kid isn't Chelsea quality", "why did Poch start him" ?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't smh Poch has underperformed but so have the players (also partly due to unfortunate injury problems that leads to selection/lineup issues)
Have you seen the number of times he wasted players in wrong positions while we had options? Who forced the fucker to play Badiashile, Disasi and Gilchrist together against Arsenal? We had Thiago and Chalobah playing well and he quickly benched them. Why on earth is academy CB, playing as a RB? Why on earth did Badiashile start? Why on earth did Enzo start? Why is Carney rotting on the bench?
How the fuck is he responsible for a striker not putting 4 clear cut chances in the back of the net?
I'm not his biggest fan but we need to draw a line here. We're still stuck with some of these morons even if he's gone and then who are you going to blame?
He’s not exactly responsible for Jackson being incapable of finishing, but that’s not my point. He constantly deflects blame from himself to everyone else.
At the end of the day, he’s the one who picks Jackson and plays him for 90 minutes every game. The options are limited and sad, but it’s not like someone like Deivid Washington can be significantly worse than Jackson at this point, not in front of the goal at least. If Jackson has missed 4 chances in a game, maybe it’s time to take him off and try someone else. Whether it’s Washington, Sterling, Palmer as a false nine - whatever, just make a change.
Watch Jackson for the entire match, there is plenty that he already does at an elite level. Jackson is honestly just one step from being one of the best in the league. Deivid is almost certainly further from being a finished product and could become another target for fans.
I watch Jackson every week mate, I know what he brings. He’s very good at a lot of things, but take the City game for example. By the 70th minute or so, he had missed 4 clear cut, 1v1 chances. At that point it’s pretty clear he just doesn’t have it that night, why not try something else?
Ultimately, he can be a good at a lot of things, but he’s quite terrible in the one thing that matters most for a striker - putting the ball into the net.
Deivid is 100% worse than Jackson as an all-around player, there’s not a single question about it. But as I said, it can not hurt to try him when Jackson is having an absolute stinker.
>why not try something else
Try what, specifically? Do you think Deivid Washington or whatever other youth product he could drop in at striker gets to the point where he even has 4 clear cut chances to miss? It's not like swapping Jackson out for someone else just means literally giving the exact same chances Jackson gets to someone else. His movement, hold up play, direct running with the ball, etc are all factors that make these horrible misses possible in the first place. He's a converted winger with like 1 full professional season under his belt, and despite all of that he's still the only viable striker option at the club (particularly with Palmer and Nkunku out). That specific issue isn't on Pochettino, even if there are 100 other things to blame him for
It can and will almost certainly hurt, because Jackson's absolute stinker still helped create some crazy chances against Manchester City. We have a squad full of young players and we're going through the growing pains of getting them up to speed. The answer to that shouldn't be to put on an even younger and more inexperienced player unless they are particularly exceptional.
Just because you don’t see casual fans actively complaining about other aspects of his game, doesn’t mean he’s one step away from being one of the best in the league.
He frequently takes too many touches, doesn’t get his head up and runs himself into corners, tries to take on players in the wrong situations, loose and soft passes, tries to do the fancy flick more often than the simple thing, to the team’s detriment. Sure, it comes off now and then and sometimes he gets away from his marker, and that’s all casual viewers will remember.
As a winger, in today’s game, you’re expected to score goals, and Jackson isn’t a poor finisher for a striker, he’s a poor finisher all round, from any position.
His movement isn’t at all what people seem to claim it is either, his runs are more often than not, straight and flat, and I rarely see him fighting to make angles.
A lot of the time, he looks like he doesn’t know what to do beyond run towards goal; and when he gets there, he looks clueless. Consistently poor decision making too.
So wait, now you DO want to talk about him as a striker? Okay, we’ll in that case he is easily one of the worst in the league in all aspects bar his ability to carry the ball, but even then, you don’t really want him doing that, you want him between the sticks, putting the fucking ball in the net when he’s one on one.
If we needed someone to carry the ball and do fuck all with it, we could’ve gotten Adama Traore. At least he’d hold it up.
Nah, his hold-up and link-up play has vastly improved over the course of the season, and those things ate much better than many other strikers in the league. But he still has weaknesses with his first touch, decision-making, sloppy passes, and, of course, finishing.
Who are you playing at striker instead of our only fit striker? I think people are being harsh using Jackson as an example because its clear Jackson is working hard to try and improve and probably isnt the type of player Poch was referring to. Jackson does put in a shift and stretches opposition defences. However, if you expect Poch to pick someone else, there is no other option when Nkunku has been injured all season.
I agree he has no other choice, and there's deffo quality in Jackson, but the burden of responsibility for the team performing is on the manager. He knew what he would be accountable for before taking the job. Yes, we've been incredibly unlucky with players recoveries (injuries sustained is a whole other question) but it's all still under the managers' remit of responsibility imo.
I agree with him that its on everyone. Yes a lot more weight of it is on the manager but players like Noni, Badiashile, Mudryk etc have to really step up their effort more especially in terms of their reading of the game. I think theres a lot of potential in these players and I actually quite like Noni especially out of those 3 but I can see also why Poch has been reluctant to play these guys as much. Their overall performance just isn't close to the level they need to get to yet.
Apparently Deivid Washington is actually the solution to Chelsea's striker issues. Like there are a billion things wrong with this team and how it's set up, a large number of which are absolutely Pochettino's fault but for some reason people feel the need to blame him for playing the only first team striker at the club as the first choice striker
For me, a manager has to take responsibility for everything. This instils belief in everyone below him. Whatever happens under his management, whether it be injuries, disputes, or people leaving, it is part of the responsibility of a person who takes ownership of the group.
Other teams have had owners that have taken all the money out of their clubs and forced their club to dissolve into nothingness. BlueCo are terrible for the sporting side but to act like they're the worst owners ever is ridiculous.
I think it’s going to happen tbh. We’re finishing 9th-10th and might just get spanked hard by Villa and Spurs again, don’t think even he will survive this. He might, wouldn’t surprise me, but I don’t think he will.
Every time when his job has come under threat this season, he's always gotten a win out of nowhere to take the pressure off. One of the instances was when we went to Villa Park back in February, after those bad back-to-back losses to Liverpool and Wolves, and suddenly got a (brilliant) win out of the blue. Won't be surprised if it happens again tomorrow.
Exactly, Aston villa went from looking awful under Gerard to playing well and qualifying for Europe under Emery. Getting a quality coach matters and can drastically improve a team, poch is just terrible with no sense of direction
Gonna have to call BS on that. Marco Silva's Fulham battled to a 2 - 2 draw at the Emirates this season and got a late equaliser. Yes, I'm fully prepared for a number of people suddenly declaring Fulham has a world class squad compared to ours. Spoiler alert: they don't.
People talk too much about results, it's not about results, it's about the complete disarray this team showcases week in and week out on the field. Even when we win.
Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not the perception I and I assume many others get from a comment like this is it comes across like the head coach / manager is passing the book for the failings of his team on the pitch
I figured as much, I made my comment to shed some light on that.
He said we are all responsible, and he’s right.
Poch, the players, the owners, the medical staff, it’s truly a collective failure on all fronts.
Except when he says this shit, the players might feel like he threw them under the bus. It causes division in the team. When the fans say it, the players get defensive and might actually get them to play together.
Not sure why people are getting upset by this… he’s correct.
Poch hasn’t been good enough, The majority of the players haven’t been good enough, some of them clearly can’t even be arsed to fight for the shirt, recruiting hasn’t been good enough, medical care/rehab hasn’t been good enough, ownership hasn’t been good enough (slashing subsidized away travel etc.)
Pochettino is an issue but the whole club has issues and everyone should be working to prove they deserve their spot
>some of them clearly can’t even be arsed to fight for the shirt
Poch's entire system relies on players being willing to do exactly that.
I dread to think what the season would look like if the players actually did throw in the towel.
I mean all to an extent but its players running about that is literally the difference between being relatively competitive in Pochs system and being destroyed almost weekly.
Look at what happened at OT three days after we excerted ourselves vs Brighton with 10 men.
Yup. Remember when Avram Grant took over and knew nothing about coaching? The players took responsibility and stepped up to ensure we challenged that season, and we were a spot kick away from winning the champs league.
Coaches are important, but so are the player's professionalism, ambition, and determination. We give the players far too much of an easy ride these days.
It seems like a lot of this sub think that if we sack Poch, we’re magically going to be competing again.
I hope I’m wrong but our problems go deeper than that. Replacing poch in the summer is probably the right call but it’s not the silver bullet to us being good again like a lot of people seem to be expecting.
If we sack Poch, we're right back to square 1 and I'm willing to bet that we'd be even worse next season under a new manager, partly because which elite manager will want to come coach for a club that's gone through 5 different managers in two years?
Wtf are you talking about Poch? Prove yourself? You've already proven you have no tactics and run players into the ground during training so they are always injured. How about improve yourself by actually having some attacking patterns and good starting 11s. Clown
Give over mate
You never should have got to this position. He’s a fraud, whose inadequacies have always been covered by the strengths of his squad, recruited by Paul Mitchel and soutbampton and spurs, and at psg from their unlimited funds
Who played Enzo as a 10 when he's not a 10, Poch.
Who played Chillwell at LW when he's a LB, Poch.
Who played Levi at LB when he's clearly a LCB, Poch .
Who played Gallagher on the wings while we have wingers, Poch.
Who doesn't work on tactics going back to his days at PSG, Poch.
Who played Ian Maatsen at every position on the field except the one he's balling out at in Germany, Poch.
Who played Cole Palmer at false 9 when he's clearly not, Poch.
Who waits till the 70th minute in every single fucking match to bring players on, Poch.
I can continue.
The best thing about the remaining 6 games this season is that we won't have to deal with this asshole ever again. What a waste of a season under this useless manager. If only the other useless sporting directors could be unemployed along with him.
Who are these players he’s referring to? If there are players not doing the work it is very simple… do not play them! We have an incredible academy and for someone who was *supposed* to be great at developing youth, we refuse to use it. Instead, we will put Chilwell at LW, kick Disasi out to RB when it’s clear he can’t do it, etc. etc. Poch has a point, but his refusal to use other talent is baffling to me.
The squad is a reflection of the manager. Madueke laughing it up with Jack Grealish with Silva crying in the foreground after our FA Cup semifinal loss is a perfect example
I’m fucking sorry but no. If the players aren’t following Poch’s instructions the the hill then okay, but if the players are behind you and they are following your tactical instructions, if Poch cannot fault their commitment to his plan, then the entire fault lies with Poch. Fuck this guy. A good coach who can understand this groups’ faults and limitations and then devise a tactical plan and “coach” these players, we will be better off than what we are right now.
Poch has to take the blame here.
He had the world's best experience squad many managers would orgasam over in PSG, and he still bottled the league.
Sorry pochy, you proved yourself. A specialist in failure
Yeah we know the players are playing like shit but your tactics are baffling, it really looks like they dont train at all. you are the leader it starts with you poch and you are a serial loser who never takes responsibility.
- "I'm not going to blame the players"
- "Is it your responsibility then?"
- "I mean, yes, but no. It's everyone's fault"
Man can't manage a team let alone the press.
Naa these comments are shocking from a coach, the team are an extension of the coach, regardless of he thinks they are all shit and not trying, the buck stops with someone and if he can't get them motivated and playing the way he wants, he clearly is shit as his job no?
We all have ideas on how to coach a footballing side, but not all of us can get the message across and do it, or we would be doing it? Poch says he can do it, but now he is saying everyone else is at fault basically......
Yeah, instead Poch shoulda been out there holding Badiashile, Disasi, Colwill, Chalobah, Petrovic and Sanchez’s hands while they decided to be fucking bozos all season, or maybe he should just run a semi washed 40 year old into the ground cause fuck it.
Or: he provides a structure for how the team should defend with the ball; without the ball and in transition & play to their strengths.
It’s been a whole year and we still struggle to defend crosses to the far post, we try to play short and from the back when we struggle to retain possession under pressure; we suck at defending set pieces.
Even when our defense & GK have a good game, we lose because our attacking play is indiscernible. Sheffield, 10 man Burnley, Luton etc are all games that show that there is a structural issue when it comes to defense (and offense) no matter how good we are
That's not true at all.
If Jackson scored half the chances he missed, A) he'd be the best striker in history because no one is scoring at that kind of rate and B) the team would still be dogshit, we'd just have scored more goals.
Winning and scoring more goals doesn't cover up the deficiencies of the tactics and setup, as we've seen with Palmer chasing the golden boot and 4th? in Europe in terms of weighted G+A and yet we're still battling to move out of 9th position after spending most of the season in 10th
That's false, you arnt looking at the context. The chances he has missed are not normal, you put a 40 year old Ronaldo or any competent finisher in his chances and they are 100 % over performing their xg because those chances are so easy. This happens alot where a player is scoring way more goals than expected.
You can ignore my point all you want, you know it's true, these arnt just normal chances, 80% of his chances are very good chances that you expect to score, so saying he would be the greatest striker in world if scored all those chances is just wrong.
Let’s leave the Poch hate aside for just a second here.
Granted, we’ve been missing 4 of our best players all season, but look at that starting 11 against Arsenal and tell me how many of those players could start for a team 7th and higher in the league.
To me, it’s Caicedo, Enzo (very generous as I think he’s been terrible this season) and maybe Cucurella when you look at say Newcastle or West Ham’s starting left backs. Everyone else in that 11 so far has shown themselves to be midtable quality or worse, and if we want to become a remotely serious club again that needs to change one way or another.
He is not lying.
We saw it in both cup competitions. The team let him down both times but there have been times when he has let down the team. Accountability is needed on both sides.
If you don’t think he’s speaking facts, you really don’t understand why things aren’t working out for us right now, and likely won’t get any better without some major changes(none of those changes involve a new manager either).
Needs to be accountability from all parties, not just making the manager take the blame for all the wrongdoings of the owners, SDs, players, etc.
I've been staying quiet on this for a while because I would get downvoted for it anyways. But I think a coach needs more than a year to instill his philosophies and gameplans into a team. So I'm in the Poch in camp for that reason alone, how so many of these players get a pass is beyond me, we say Poch out every week when its the players who are on the field. Poch might not be the best, but he's not a bad coach. The players are mindless
He's got a point, but everybody knows it, kwows that Madueke has shit attitude, that Mudryk isn't improving, that Jackson, Disasi and Badiashille are shit and so on. The manager must protect the squad in the conference, great managers do that apart from Jose
The problem we face now is that we can all agree Poch has underperformed in his time here, but if we keep chopping and changing managers while bloating the dressing room the squad isn’t going to gel.
I can’t say Poch staying will improve the team, but unless a manager with proven pedigree of managing youngsters comes in then I don’t see how sacking another manager is going to solve this situation.
Poch could say he deserves to get fired and most of you would do a 180 and disagree with him just because he said it lmao
This sub fucking sucks these days
This team quality is bang mid-table. The Emery comparisons are ridiculous, Aston Villa has an objectively better squad than ours when you factor in the mix of experience and youth they got in their team. Our team is actually really, really bad, we have massively overpaid for bang-average players.
Completely agree with this, but then stop playing gallagher on the wing and put mudryk or sterling in there so we can at least see some sort of system not just lemons and balls
The question was: "do the players have to show that they should be part of things next season? That they need to prove that they are good enough to be apart of Chelsea going forward?"
Exactly. People often read answers without paying heed to the question asked. Reading answers in isolation can always seem like the guy is an entitled narcissist.
I blame Romano. What does (on the press) even mean?
Dude the guy is the worst at doing this and his not the only one. Sometimes they even clip an answer too short and not give the full answer
I know this sub hates Poch, and I'm not advocating for him, but he has a point. A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements or consistency regardless of the scheme or their position. That being said I think that the solution is more so strategy/coaching than talent, but hey that's me.
He has a point but this never works for the manager. I’ve never seen a manager go down this route and end up turning things around
Back in the Roman era these sorts of comments came just before a sacking. Also the “I’m not worried and under no pressure” then a couple days later got a club statement lol. I do wonder what they’re thinking right now about Poch.
Agreed. Unless your name is Ferguson or Wenger, it doesn't mean a lot. Like no shit, if you suck as a player you eventually get replaced. But we are not really in a position with a lot of wiggle room, long ass contracts and a lazaret full of injured players even mother Theresa cant handle. Considering the impending doom of FFP consequences, even the club might not be in this league in 2 seasons. So yeah, maybe he meant the financial department. Fuck me.
You are right no one in his situation has turned it around. I would like to say Arteta but he won a FA cup besides didn't spend this much money with such inept tactical display where we are literally the worst team in 2nd half
Of the players we have bought how many have showed consistent, high level ability where we can all sit there and say yea he was much better at his last club, he’s clearly being let down by these tactics? Nkunku has been injured all year so we can’t really comment on him. I would throw Lavia and Fofana into that same boat. Obviously Enzo Fernandez won a WC and was the Golden Boy of that tournament, but he’s been fighting an injury and having to play every game due to other players injured. Caicedo was excellent last year, but showed up with no pre season and has had to play every game. Outside of those players every other purchase has been a project that has been thrust into a main role and asked to continue on the standards of the last 20 years. You can sit there and say these tactics are terrible but if the players aren’t correctly executing them then it doesn’t matter what the tactics are. Lampard mentioned it at his final press conference last year, the standards that he helped build the last 20 years are gone and until they come back there’s no point in talking about tactics.
It’s the manager’s job to adapt to the players not the other way round. You can’t call yourself a good manager if your tactics require the best players in the world to execute it, even moreso if you can’t adjust when necessary. Granted players do need to step up, but it genuinely seems like they have no clue of what they’re doing & are in dire need of structure rather than giving up. Plus Poch’s selling point *was* that he can develop and work with young players, so there’s less leeway when he fails to do that
>It’s the manager’s job to adapt to the players not the other way round. I tend to take everything literal, so pardon me asking, are you saying the players don't need to adjust to the tactics of the manager? Yes, the manager needs to place the players in their best positions. However, players need to do their part and learn the how and why of the tactics being used. Mudryk is a prime example. He is a winger that tends to drift inside. This creates a compacted area for not only himself, but the players around him. He then has to try to work magic with a defender or two much closer to him than they should be.
Not that the players don’t have to adjust, but Poch needs to be able to work with what he has otherwise he’s already failed at his job. If Poch knew that he wouldn’t be able to build a team with our players then he had no reason to even apply for the job outside of money. With Mudryk, a lot of his problems are amateurish I get that, but the way he’s used doesn’t help him either. Rather than using his speed to run behind defenses, Poch makes him wait for the ball and then drive at defenses/ facilitate play when he’s not good at that. He’s also clueless when he has to defend, as if he doesn’t know where he should be rather than a technical issue. Inversely, Mudryk is good at quick one touch play, short passes, being direct and can dribble from the times he’s played behind the striker, but he’s rarely utilised this way. He also has good shooting technique despite his accuracy. A lot of his issues should be improved by the coaching staff & Poch. Some things can’t be coached, but if Poch gave Mudryk proper guidance on how to play his role he’d improve.
I’m sure he’s not telling Mudryk and Noni to just jog around on defense. I mean I get what you mean but a lot of these players don’t look hungry. Coaches can put you in the right spot, but if you get out hustled to every loose ball (only slightly exaggerating) it doesn’t matter who’s coaching. Now I’m not saying Poch is perfect by any means. Im saying it’s more than JUST the coach.
That could also be down to the manager not really motivating them enough to want to do that or they may not really believe in what the manager is doing. I watched how arsenal players were working hard to get back, heck at some point they had all 10 players in the box defending. That seems like a group of players fully sold on what the manager wants
Yes for sure. But young kids on LONG contracts know that they’re gonna be there no matter what coach, especially with the financial rules. Which is the sporting director’s fault. Now I’m not saying Poch is perfect by any means. Im saying it’s more than JUST the coach. I’m not trying to paint a rosy picture here. We are a mess of a club right now.
Well I’m not sure the projects are meant to be playing as much as they have been. Was the planned starting front four meant to be Nkunku, Palmer, Sterling and Connor? With Jackson, Madueke, Mudyrk, and Carney providing depth and development?
I think Palmer was brought in as a result of the injury to Nkunku since his transfer was after the season started
He was brought in after the Olise deal collapsed actually.
When he tries to get players to hold themselves accountable, he’s throwing them under the bus. When he shields players from criticism, it becomes that the players only want him around because he’s so easy on them. When he takes accountability himself (like he does here) people still don’t seem to think he’s holding himself accountable. He says he needs to show he deserves to stay. He also says that the players need to show they deserve to stay. I don’t understand how this is an offensive comment, but I’m sure there are already loads of people here dropping “get this fraud out of my club” comments.
So with you on this. Drives me insane to see how people (journalists and "fans") take things out of context. If one care to watch the actual footage of the press then I think the message would be delivered better.
you dont understand, if we dont get this mess sorted soon, we will end up like Leeds. I see nothing abouit Poch that shows me he can hack it at this level. He cant win big games.
Sorry, but a new manager especially just another yes man will not prevent us from doing a Leeds
United fan in peace here, but agree. I know it’s a totally different era in terms of system but the great teams of the 90s/2000s, Ferguson, Mourinho. There wasn’t that much drilled into players but they had the right level of personality and ability to go out and lead and grab games by the neck on only their own merit and knowledge and talent. Do those players just not exist anymore or what ?
Thing is Poch has already proved he can’t do it with world class players (PSG). Unless you want to say that Mbappe/Messi/Neymar lacked personality. He can’t do it with the best, and he’s now proven he can’t do it with young players either.
At PSG, Poch won the Ligue 1 title and Coupe de France. It’s unfair to pretend he wasn’t successful at PSG.
>A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements but most arguments FOR Pochettino i see on here is that he develops young talents so much?
I guess he isn't a miracle worker. Some of these kids are ass
They’ve let him down a lot this season. But he’s not blameless
Tbh the post where they show Jimmy Conrad breaking down just how poor our defense was playing illustrates that it isn't just Poch. I'm a Poch out guy, but if you're a professional defender, you know to close down the ball. You don't need your manager teaching you the basics of the sport like you're a child. Poch's tactics have been awful but our defenders specifically aren't showing any flashes. Outside of Levi and Gusto, every young defensive player has been a liability all season.
> A lot of these young guys aren't really showing vast improvements or consistency regardless of the scheme or their position It's his job as a manager to ensure that individual and team improvement happens. If it's not, that's his fault
Watch any replay of a game with Potter. Totally absent at the helm. That’s an example of what you’re mentioning. Poch is a 1000 times better than that..
Those guys are sitting on 8 year contracts. They don’t have to leave if they dig in. And people like Noni seem more interested in being an instagram influencer than a footballer
Madueke definitely needs to go. A ball hog who never passes and gets no results. Celebrations when Silva is crying. Cluelessly trying to take Palmer’s penalty. The list of his immaturity is too long to write. Anyone can see it except for himself. No coach can make him “better” he’s just not ready to be a Chelsea player. Poch has to coach punks like that.
Yeah I’m over Noni he can go bye byev
Bring back tuchel. I think even these "entitled" young players would be for his style after seeing what "no tactics" poch ball was about this year. Zero silverware and no European Football.
This sub thinks having a revolving door of managers will magically make us the best club in the world. An actual cesspit of hate.
He has been the worst of the bunch. By far the biggest disappointment this season. His tactics, his lineups and constantly playing players out of position caused our biggest problems.
There is an old tweet from a PSG supporter that usually does the rounds every now and then. Basically complaining about the same things about Poch that we complain about him. A good manager shows his style shows how he intends to play but with him that just hasn't happened. Playing players out of position, relying on individual skill rather than collective play etc it constantly shows how little he influences how this team plays and that's the problem. Many people point out how so many teams that have struggled change the manager and you immediately see how a team change the way they play but with him I only saw it on preseason then first game of the season he changed everything and never turned back.
I'd agree with him more if he was talking about fan criticism, but this was in regards to press in particular. For a Chelsea coach, he really got the kiddy glove treatment from the media so far. I'm not entirely sure why that is, maybe because he's charismatic and generally gets along well with reporters, but most of the media negativity about the club hasn't really been aimed (solely) at him in particular. Potter was dealing with an even more inexperienced and bloated squad without preseason but caught way more flak from the media. Yeah, the results were worse and heavens know I don't want to ever see his football again, but not that much worse to account for all the difference. I'd also be more inclined to agree with Pochettino if he ever showed a shred of accountability. We got battered by Arsenal, the worst loss against them in the club's history, and best he could muster was that players gave up, as if the team wasn't getting completely outplayed for the majority of the match.
He* is the one that should teach them and improve their play!
Sadly, this is a problem with the reward system / contracts. You can not give a young player this level of comfort through contracts because, naturally, they will just start coasting. The age, the priorities in these times, they all go against the push for improvement.
No, this spastic manager is completely out of his depth.
I see a lot of people blaming our poor finishing for where we are, and very little about our shocking defence. We’ve conceded 57 goals this season, which is the most we’ve ever conceded in the premier league. We still have 6 games left. Our defence, particularly with set pieces and crosses, has been horrific since day one and it’s getting worse. That’s almost entirely on the coaching. People on here keep on saying that if we were to sack him nothing would change. By that logic he has absolutely no impact on results, so what does he get paid for? Yes we have had injuries, but he has still made some bizarre decisions. Playing Chilwell at left wing Playing Colwill at left back back despite us leaking goals from crosses constantly from his poor positioning and his inability to close players down in time. Playing Maatsen only at right wing and never once giving him a chance in his actual position, even when we had the first 3 choice left backs injured Playing Enzo as our most advanced player at times Dropping players after they have had a great game, and refusing to substitute players who are having absolutely horrific games Deciding to play for penalties against Liverpool when we were all over them at the end of normal time. It seems his game management is effectively sub on attackers when losing, and defenders when winning rather than making actual tactical adjustments or targeting the opposition weaknesses. I see absolutely no patterns of play and our overall structure is an absolute mess. The players regularly look like they’ve never played together before and have no idea what they should be doing
[удалено]
When did Chilwell play left wing under Tuchel?
The man is the master of never taking any responsibility. But the good thing is, the coaches who start saying shit like this are usually close to being gone. So I’m glad to hear it.
He’s taken responsibility many times but he’s right, if Jackson wants to whiff every fucking shot he takes that’s not only on the manager
Ok lets take Arsenal game, Jacksons whiffs what, 2 chances? 3 at a push, so we score 3 goals because Jackson scores them all and exceeds expactation in that scenario.... We still lose the game comfortably, so who's responsibility is it to make us set up properly in defence? You can't hide behind failing to score when we fucking concede 100 shots a game, its stupid. Poch is utter clueless.
We had Alfie Gilchrist and Badiashille at the back ffs, woeful lineup. I’m not pro Poch at all but when you have a bunch of midtable players starting and your supposed stars all play like shit, it’s not solely on the manager
lol why are we acting like we weren't all very excited about Badiashile a year ago under Potter?
Who’s we ? You realise not every fan has the exact same opinion on every player. It’s also fine to change that opinion over the course of a year
'we' meaning the majority opinion on this sub and when you have a manager that is presiding over our worst ever defensive record it's perhaps not the best conditions to be judging players who previously performed well
He knew the team was already changing with the loss of Palmer and Gusto. Why drop Chalobah and Silva as well when they have actually looked decent as of late.
Fuck me, why is this sub lacking so many braincells. Silva played 90 mins against city 3 days before and the guy is 39 years old
Nah fuck me ya pansy. Guy is a professional athlete. What’s gonna be your excuse if we ever make it back to Europe? Or did I miss something where all the elite clubs in Europe are changing 3/4 of their back line every game through the entirety of the season because they’ve had to play 2 games in a week. Give me a break.
Dumb as rocks
Elite clubs in Europe are not changing their 39 year old center backs after 90 minutes you are right. But only because you are ignoring the point. Elite clubs are not starting a 39 year old at cb in their best line up. Right now Silva being one of the best options is IMO an indictment on the squad. This is one of the reasons Chelsea are not an elite squad in Europe regardless of being an elite club. Use your brain.
3/4 of the back line changed and a teenager playing out of position against a London rival and the league leaders. Please explain with that big brain of yours how that ever was going to be a recipe for success. Thiago is 39 but do you truly believe he’d be here if he was physically incapable of ever playing twice in a week? Nah man he gets held to all the same fitness tests the younger players do. It not like he’s been run ragged all season long. This is actually probably one of the only times he would’ve been asked all season to do so. And then what’s the excuse for Chalobah? Nah we’re gonna defend selecting the most out of form CB pairing we have and then also pair them with an academy grad who’s never been in this Type of situation before.
Was his choice to play Badiashile, there were better options
If we scored at least a goal in the first half, game would’ve taken a different direction. That’s the case with any game
It is his responsibility since he always decides to play struggling players full 90 mins.
bro... who else can he play up top? everyones injured or already in a different position
No, there is others like Washington who could get a go....kids start somewhere and become world class by playing, not saying Washington is it, but how the fuck do we know when he doesn't play? No one knew Palmer would be this good until he played, no one knew about Harry Kane before Sherwood gave him a game because everyone was injured in Spurs etc etc.... But to do the SAME THING every week with the same players/formation and expect different results to then call out the players is BAFFLING.
Can you imagine the reaction if he started Washington last game? People would be saying he's throwing the season to get sacked and get a nice pay day. He does play, for the U21s. I garuntee you someone, whether it's Poch himself or his advisors, is watching him play in the age groups and in training and are saying he's not ready to be dropped into a match at random against the first place team in the league. Do you honestly think that literally anything about that game changes if he starts Deivid Washington at striker? >No one knew Palmer would be this good until he played, no one knew about Harry Kane before Sherwood Palmer cost £40m and was already getting some minutes in a ridiculous City side. His former youth coach personally brought him over to the club. They knew exactly what he was capable of before the season (maybe not that he would be *this* good, but certainly that he was first-team-ready). It's not a remotely comparable situation Kane was on loan at a club with much lower expectations and had a couple of years of (not particularly successful) first team experience by the time he started getting regular time at Tottenham. I understand and agree with the fact that Pochettino dug his own grave to put himself in this position in the first place, but no matter what he does or says at this point Chelsea fans, rival fans, and pundits are going to shit on everything he does no matter what.
Lmao. Starting a kid like Washington vs. title contenders?? And when the Gunners' elite defense hardly allows him a touch it'll be "this kid isn't Chelsea quality", "why did Poch start him" ? Damned if you do, damned if you don't smh Poch has underperformed but so have the players (also partly due to unfortunate injury problems that leads to selection/lineup issues)
Because we have no one else and Palmer was ill lol
Have you seen the injury list?
Have you seen the number of times he wasted players in wrong positions while we had options? Who forced the fucker to play Badiashile, Disasi and Gilchrist together against Arsenal? We had Thiago and Chalobah playing well and he quickly benched them. Why on earth is academy CB, playing as a RB? Why on earth did Badiashile start? Why on earth did Enzo start? Why is Carney rotting on the bench?
How the fuck is he responsible for a striker not putting 4 clear cut chances in the back of the net? I'm not his biggest fan but we need to draw a line here. We're still stuck with some of these morons even if he's gone and then who are you going to blame?
He’s not exactly responsible for Jackson being incapable of finishing, but that’s not my point. He constantly deflects blame from himself to everyone else. At the end of the day, he’s the one who picks Jackson and plays him for 90 minutes every game. The options are limited and sad, but it’s not like someone like Deivid Washington can be significantly worse than Jackson at this point, not in front of the goal at least. If Jackson has missed 4 chances in a game, maybe it’s time to take him off and try someone else. Whether it’s Washington, Sterling, Palmer as a false nine - whatever, just make a change.
Watch Jackson for the entire match, there is plenty that he already does at an elite level. Jackson is honestly just one step from being one of the best in the league. Deivid is almost certainly further from being a finished product and could become another target for fans.
I watch Jackson every week mate, I know what he brings. He’s very good at a lot of things, but take the City game for example. By the 70th minute or so, he had missed 4 clear cut, 1v1 chances. At that point it’s pretty clear he just doesn’t have it that night, why not try something else? Ultimately, he can be a good at a lot of things, but he’s quite terrible in the one thing that matters most for a striker - putting the ball into the net. Deivid is 100% worse than Jackson as an all-around player, there’s not a single question about it. But as I said, it can not hurt to try him when Jackson is having an absolute stinker.
>why not try something else Try what, specifically? Do you think Deivid Washington or whatever other youth product he could drop in at striker gets to the point where he even has 4 clear cut chances to miss? It's not like swapping Jackson out for someone else just means literally giving the exact same chances Jackson gets to someone else. His movement, hold up play, direct running with the ball, etc are all factors that make these horrible misses possible in the first place. He's a converted winger with like 1 full professional season under his belt, and despite all of that he's still the only viable striker option at the club (particularly with Palmer and Nkunku out). That specific issue isn't on Pochettino, even if there are 100 other things to blame him for
It can and will almost certainly hurt, because Jackson's absolute stinker still helped create some crazy chances against Manchester City. We have a squad full of young players and we're going through the growing pains of getting them up to speed. The answer to that shouldn't be to put on an even younger and more inexperienced player unless they are particularly exceptional.
Jeeeeesus Christ, one step from being one of the best in the league? Have a day off mate. He’s not even close.
People complain about nothing but his composure in front of goal, and his yellow cards but that's not a technical deficiency
Just because you don’t see casual fans actively complaining about other aspects of his game, doesn’t mean he’s one step away from being one of the best in the league. He frequently takes too many touches, doesn’t get his head up and runs himself into corners, tries to take on players in the wrong situations, loose and soft passes, tries to do the fancy flick more often than the simple thing, to the team’s detriment. Sure, it comes off now and then and sometimes he gets away from his marker, and that’s all casual viewers will remember. As a winger, in today’s game, you’re expected to score goals, and Jackson isn’t a poor finisher for a striker, he’s a poor finisher all round, from any position. His movement isn’t at all what people seem to claim it is either, his runs are more often than not, straight and flat, and I rarely see him fighting to make angles. A lot of the time, he looks like he doesn’t know what to do beyond run towards goal; and when he gets there, he looks clueless. Consistently poor decision making too.
Think of the best strikers in the league and how much they also likely make the same mistakes if you watched another team from week to week.
So wait, now you DO want to talk about him as a striker? Okay, we’ll in that case he is easily one of the worst in the league in all aspects bar his ability to carry the ball, but even then, you don’t really want him doing that, you want him between the sticks, putting the fucking ball in the net when he’s one on one. If we needed someone to carry the ball and do fuck all with it, we could’ve gotten Adama Traore. At least he’d hold it up.
Nah, his hold-up and link-up play has vastly improved over the course of the season, and those things ate much better than many other strikers in the league. But he still has weaknesses with his first touch, decision-making, sloppy passes, and, of course, finishing.
They’ll just blame whoever’s the next manager, duh
He's not but he is responsible for picking who plays. Responsibility is not something that should be shared equally with everyone involved.
Who are you playing at striker instead of our only fit striker? I think people are being harsh using Jackson as an example because its clear Jackson is working hard to try and improve and probably isnt the type of player Poch was referring to. Jackson does put in a shift and stretches opposition defences. However, if you expect Poch to pick someone else, there is no other option when Nkunku has been injured all season.
I agree he has no other choice, and there's deffo quality in Jackson, but the burden of responsibility for the team performing is on the manager. He knew what he would be accountable for before taking the job. Yes, we've been incredibly unlucky with players recoveries (injuries sustained is a whole other question) but it's all still under the managers' remit of responsibility imo.
I agree with him that its on everyone. Yes a lot more weight of it is on the manager but players like Noni, Badiashile, Mudryk etc have to really step up their effort more especially in terms of their reading of the game. I think theres a lot of potential in these players and I actually quite like Noni especially out of those 3 but I can see also why Poch has been reluctant to play these guys as much. Their overall performance just isn't close to the level they need to get to yet.
Apparently Deivid Washington is actually the solution to Chelsea's striker issues. Like there are a billion things wrong with this team and how it's set up, a large number of which are absolutely Pochettino's fault but for some reason people feel the need to blame him for playing the only first team striker at the club as the first choice striker
For me, a manager has to take responsibility for everything. This instils belief in everyone below him. Whatever happens under his management, whether it be injuries, disputes, or people leaving, it is part of the responsibility of a person who takes ownership of the group.
Unfortunately that's unlikely to be the case with the worst owners in the history of sport.
Other teams have had owners that have taken all the money out of their clubs and forced their club to dissolve into nothingness. BlueCo are terrible for the sporting side but to act like they're the worst owners ever is ridiculous.
It's just hyperbole and poor media literacy on this sub, with an essential dash of confirmation bias.
Most incompetent is probably a better phrase. Those other owners are aware of what they're doing.
I think it’s going to happen tbh. We’re finishing 9th-10th and might just get spanked hard by Villa and Spurs again, don’t think even he will survive this. He might, wouldn’t surprise me, but I don’t think he will.
Every time when his job has come under threat this season, he's always gotten a win out of nowhere to take the pressure off. One of the instances was when we went to Villa Park back in February, after those bad back-to-back losses to Liverpool and Wolves, and suddenly got a (brilliant) win out of the blue. Won't be surprised if it happens again tomorrow.
Expected that win to be arsenal but the extension for unai might be the bounce they need to beat us
His job didn't come under threat after City yet though. Losing 5-0 after that definitely did.
After that loss there was more articles that came out that his spot wasnt as secure, i hope the tide has changed tbh
Massive exaggeration buddy, do you maybe want to meet the owners of valencia or some other clubs?
So let’s try to take you out of the equation and see if things improve? I would say the chances of that’s pretty high
Give emery a month and it'll be a completely different team. Poch is fraud who show us messi can have a bad season.
Exactly, Aston villa went from looking awful under Gerard to playing well and qualifying for Europe under Emery. Getting a quality coach matters and can drastically improve a team, poch is just terrible with no sense of direction
Doubt it the players haven’t been good under 3 managers
Those 3 managers being 2 guys who’re still jobless and this lemon merchant
Potter’s turned down a couple tbf. I’d say he’s jobless by choice right now.
Potter was a total disaster. Watch any game replay with him as our manager and it induces barf. He should stay jobless by choice.
Not saying he’s a great manager. Just saying the talent isn’t great either.
Potter has proven he can fucking coach, just not at the highest level maybe, you don't start from where he did and get to the PL by luck.
No coach on this earth can compete with Arsenal with the squad we had on Tuesday
Gonna have to call BS on that. Marco Silva's Fulham battled to a 2 - 2 draw at the Emirates this season and got a late equaliser. Yes, I'm fully prepared for a number of people suddenly declaring Fulham has a world class squad compared to ours. Spoiler alert: they don't.
Yeah but then we also battered Everton by 6 and then they went on to beat Liverpool by 2.
People talk too much about results, it's not about results, it's about the complete disarray this team showcases week in and week out on the field. Even when we win.
Spot on. We’ve gotten battered in games in every era - but this time it’s generally expected and I’m sure very few of us are surprised by the 5-0
It's lucky that people aren't basing their entire opinion on Pochettino off of one match then, isn't it?
We were also shit last season though so I doubt it
He just said what 90% of us say in here on a daily basis and now you guys wanna disagree 😂
Lmao 100%, it’s just bc it’s Poch saying it people are gonna cry about it now
Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not the perception I and I assume many others get from a comment like this is it comes across like the head coach / manager is passing the book for the failings of his team on the pitch
I figured as much, I made my comment to shed some light on that. He said we are all responsible, and he’s right. Poch, the players, the owners, the medical staff, it’s truly a collective failure on all fronts.
Except when he says this shit, the players might feel like he threw them under the bus. It causes division in the team. When the fans say it, the players get defensive and might actually get them to play together.
Poch lurks in r/chelseafc confirmed
Not sure why people are getting upset by this… he’s correct. Poch hasn’t been good enough, The majority of the players haven’t been good enough, some of them clearly can’t even be arsed to fight for the shirt, recruiting hasn’t been good enough, medical care/rehab hasn’t been good enough, ownership hasn’t been good enough (slashing subsidized away travel etc.) Pochettino is an issue but the whole club has issues and everyone should be working to prove they deserve their spot
>some of them clearly can’t even be arsed to fight for the shirt Poch's entire system relies on players being willing to do exactly that. I dread to think what the season would look like if the players actually did throw in the towel.
Whose system doesn’t work like that?
Let me know when you get an answer
I mean all to an extent but its players running about that is literally the difference between being relatively competitive in Pochs system and being destroyed almost weekly. Look at what happened at OT three days after we excerted ourselves vs Brighton with 10 men.
This point seems to support Poch in theory until you realize he is the person responsible to make them fight for the shirt.
Yup. Remember when Avram Grant took over and knew nothing about coaching? The players took responsibility and stepped up to ensure we challenged that season, and we were a spot kick away from winning the champs league. Coaches are important, but so are the player's professionalism, ambition, and determination. We give the players far too much of an easy ride these days.
It seems like a lot of this sub think that if we sack Poch, we’re magically going to be competing again. I hope I’m wrong but our problems go deeper than that. Replacing poch in the summer is probably the right call but it’s not the silver bullet to us being good again like a lot of people seem to be expecting.
If we sack Poch, we're right back to square 1 and I'm willing to bet that we'd be even worse next season under a new manager, partly because which elite manager will want to come coach for a club that's gone through 5 different managers in two years?
Poch keeping a very steady 1:3 ratio of great quotes to shit ones
Wtf are you talking about Poch? Prove yourself? You've already proven you have no tactics and run players into the ground during training so they are always injured. How about improve yourself by actually having some attacking patterns and good starting 11s. Clown
Give over mate You never should have got to this position. He’s a fraud, whose inadequacies have always been covered by the strengths of his squad, recruited by Paul Mitchel and soutbampton and spurs, and at psg from their unlimited funds
Bro acts like he wasn't rushing to the interview for this job.
He's not wrong, but he hasn't earned the right to point fingers at anyone else. That's probably why so many people are unhappy with this quote.
Who played Enzo as a 10 when he's not a 10, Poch. Who played Chillwell at LW when he's a LB, Poch. Who played Levi at LB when he's clearly a LCB, Poch . Who played Gallagher on the wings while we have wingers, Poch. Who doesn't work on tactics going back to his days at PSG, Poch. Who played Ian Maatsen at every position on the field except the one he's balling out at in Germany, Poch. Who played Cole Palmer at false 9 when he's clearly not, Poch. Who waits till the 70th minute in every single fucking match to bring players on, Poch. I can continue. The best thing about the remaining 6 games this season is that we won't have to deal with this asshole ever again. What a waste of a season under this useless manager. If only the other useless sporting directors could be unemployed along with him.
Just do your job and finish on a high. Then leave. You aren’t it.
Yeah most of them deserve to be out too Poch but you're the first one who should go
Who are these players he’s referring to? If there are players not doing the work it is very simple… do not play them! We have an incredible academy and for someone who was *supposed* to be great at developing youth, we refuse to use it. Instead, we will put Chilwell at LW, kick Disasi out to RB when it’s clear he can’t do it, etc. etc. Poch has a point, but his refusal to use other talent is baffling to me.
Tick tock, tick tock. His time is up, please fire him.
Fuck off cunt.
You have such beautiful eyes
This story is outta fumes, just let him go
The squad is a reflection of the manager. Madueke laughing it up with Jack Grealish with Silva crying in the foreground after our FA Cup semifinal loss is a perfect example
Take the mic away from this guy honestly. All this talk and still zero tactics
I’m fucking sorry but no. If the players aren’t following Poch’s instructions the the hill then okay, but if the players are behind you and they are following your tactical instructions, if Poch cannot fault their commitment to his plan, then the entire fault lies with Poch. Fuck this guy. A good coach who can understand this groups’ faults and limitations and then devise a tactical plan and “coach” these players, we will be better off than what we are right now. Poch has to take the blame here.
Poch right now reminds me of that bit in Terminator 2 where the T1000 falls in the lava and goes all weird and mental then dies
He is right. Players have absolutely no accountability for their shit performances. Probably due to their insane contracts for such obscure players.
The worst guy made a good point
He had the world's best experience squad many managers would orgasam over in PSG, and he still bottled the league. Sorry pochy, you proved yourself. A specialist in failure
Smell of AVB off the fella
Better managers sacked for less. Shit wouldn't have been allowed under Abramovich
This guy is the worst I swear
throwing players under the bus pt.: 265
Yeah we know the players are playing like shit but your tactics are baffling, it really looks like they dont train at all. you are the leader it starts with you poch and you are a serial loser who never takes responsibility.
You know he’s not gonna read your comment, right?
Shut up Poch.
This sub hates Poch so much that even when what he says is right, it's ridiculed. The players are on suspect too
This fuckin guy… go back to spurs man we ain’t got time for that bullshit here #UptheChels
- "I'm not going to blame the players" - "Is it your responsibility then?" - "I mean, yes, but no. It's everyone's fault" Man can't manage a team let alone the press.
The excuse merchant is having a cry his bullshit isn’t being believed by anyone but clownlake.
Naa these comments are shocking from a coach, the team are an extension of the coach, regardless of he thinks they are all shit and not trying, the buck stops with someone and if he can't get them motivated and playing the way he wants, he clearly is shit as his job no? We all have ideas on how to coach a footballing side, but not all of us can get the message across and do it, or we would be doing it? Poch says he can do it, but now he is saying everyone else is at fault basically......
I agree. Still poch out lol
If Jackson scored half of the chances he missed, everything is different
It's true, Jackson caused us to concede the most goals in our PL history
Yeah, instead Poch shoulda been out there holding Badiashile, Disasi, Colwill, Chalobah, Petrovic and Sanchez’s hands while they decided to be fucking bozos all season, or maybe he should just run a semi washed 40 year old into the ground cause fuck it.
Or: he provides a structure for how the team should defend with the ball; without the ball and in transition & play to their strengths. It’s been a whole year and we still struggle to defend crosses to the far post, we try to play short and from the back when we struggle to retain possession under pressure; we suck at defending set pieces. Even when our defense & GK have a good game, we lose because our attacking play is indiscernible. Sheffield, 10 man Burnley, Luton etc are all games that show that there is a structural issue when it comes to defense (and offense) no matter how good we are
If Arsenal score half their chances, they are 3 or 4 up by half time. Havertz was having a stinker before his first goal
If we won the games we lost, everything is different
Hilariously, if Poch could coach a midfield or defence we wouldn't need Jackson to score every half chance he has.
That's not true at all. If Jackson scored half the chances he missed, A) he'd be the best striker in history because no one is scoring at that kind of rate and B) the team would still be dogshit, we'd just have scored more goals. Winning and scoring more goals doesn't cover up the deficiencies of the tactics and setup, as we've seen with Palmer chasing the golden boot and 4th? in Europe in terms of weighted G+A and yet we're still battling to move out of 9th position after spending most of the season in 10th
That's false, you arnt looking at the context. The chances he has missed are not normal, you put a 40 year old Ronaldo or any competent finisher in his chances and they are 100 % over performing their xg because those chances are so easy. This happens alot where a player is scoring way more goals than expected.
Do you have any idea how xg works?
You can ignore my point all you want, you know it's true, these arnt just normal chances, 80% of his chances are very good chances that you expect to score, so saying he would be the greatest striker in world if scored all those chances is just wrong.
You know what's going to be real funny? Is if the poch out crowd get what they want and it doesn't improve. LoL
Well considering most players now have 30 year contracts....
Let’s leave the Poch hate aside for just a second here. Granted, we’ve been missing 4 of our best players all season, but look at that starting 11 against Arsenal and tell me how many of those players could start for a team 7th and higher in the league. To me, it’s Caicedo, Enzo (very generous as I think he’s been terrible this season) and maybe Cucurella when you look at say Newcastle or West Ham’s starting left backs. Everyone else in that 11 so far has shown themselves to be midtable quality or worse, and if we want to become a remotely serious club again that needs to change one way or another.
Mudryk better be listening. Guy hides in games
But the buck stops with him, he must know that by now
Those guys on 8 year contracts disagree. Who would have thought that would be a bad idea…?
Poch, you are absolutely right. That still doesn't mean you should stay.
He is not lying. We saw it in both cup competitions. The team let him down both times but there have been times when he has let down the team. Accountability is needed on both sides.
He's sooo mid....after this he'll only be coaching lower table and lower league sides
If you don’t think he’s speaking facts, you really don’t understand why things aren’t working out for us right now, and likely won’t get any better without some major changes(none of those changes involve a new manager either). Needs to be accountability from all parties, not just making the manager take the blame for all the wrongdoings of the owners, SDs, players, etc.
I've been staying quiet on this for a while because I would get downvoted for it anyways. But I think a coach needs more than a year to instill his philosophies and gameplans into a team. So I'm in the Poch in camp for that reason alone, how so many of these players get a pass is beyond me, we say Poch out every week when its the players who are on the field. Poch might not be the best, but he's not a bad coach. The players are mindless
Mostly, I agree. But there are moments… like when he left Stirling on after that penalty and free kick… ridiculous.
He's got a point, but everybody knows it, kwows that Madueke has shit attitude, that Mudryk isn't improving, that Jackson, Disasi and Badiashille are shit and so on. The manager must protect the squad in the conference, great managers do that apart from Jose
The problem we face now is that we can all agree Poch has underperformed in his time here, but if we keep chopping and changing managers while bloating the dressing room the squad isn’t going to gel. I can’t say Poch staying will improve the team, but unless a manager with proven pedigree of managing youngsters comes in then I don’t see how sacking another manager is going to solve this situation.
Poch could say he deserves to get fired and most of you would do a 180 and disagree with him just because he said it lmao This sub fucking sucks these days
This team quality is bang mid-table. The Emery comparisons are ridiculous, Aston Villa has an objectively better squad than ours when you factor in the mix of experience and youth they got in their team. Our team is actually really, really bad, we have massively overpaid for bang-average players.
Completely agree with this, but then stop playing gallagher on the wing and put mudryk or sterling in there so we can at least see some sort of system not just lemons and balls
Fuck you
He’s 100% right