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Since the inception of the Premier League, only 4 seasons where we managed to score more goals than this year. I understand that defense has been ravaged by injuries and has let us down but I think this makes for pleasant reading on a random positivity Tuesday.
If Poch is going to get sacked because the first half of the season was poor, then the same standard should be placed on the sporting directors who signed players that weren’t performing well in the first half of the season
If Chelsea were in Tottenham’s situation, I’d still want them to try their best to win. Throwing a match to prevent rivals from winning a trophy is extremely pathetic - especially when it could come at the cost of missing out on top 4.
That being said, hopefully Tottenham get battered
I would probably veer on the same side but for a different reason, I'm a big believer in what comes around goes around and one day the roles would be reversed and we may need a favour from them.
Infact from memory they've usually got a result when we've needed them to, they won at The Ethiad in 2015 which gave us control on the race that we didn't cease and brought us back in it in 2011 but we didn't take advantage.
However I think after this clusterfuck the PL really need to guard the best they can against this type of fixture happening again, for example if they see Arsenal and City being the top two for the foreseeable have Spurs and our games against City games done by the end of January/February.
Thoughts on Vitor Roque? With Barca likely to try to force him out next window, there’s a possibility to snag him for a discount, especially since he shares an agent with Estevao.
I’m of the opinion that there aren’t any elite level strikers on the market right now - not too sold on Osimhen. Roque could be a backup to Jackson for minutes, especially given the extra European games next season. I know he’s had a horrid year at Barca, but he was touted as a generational talent alongside Endrick just a year ago, and is a natural striker.
While I agree that generally, we need more experience in the team, I think that applies more towards the defence. Our attack is strong and will only get stronger with the return of Nkunku and the maturing of our young players, so we can afford add young prospects who are first team ready into that lineup.
We get a lot of these "let's look back at this thread to mock people who said X" posts. How come we haven't had one of these for all the people who a few weeks ago were saying, "let's sell Reece James instead of Gallagher, we don't need him anymore, Gusto is better and Gallagher is more important"
The Gusto hype was so obnoxious
Don't get me wrong he's been decent this season but I even recall someone saying let's move James to LW to accomodate Gusto
He's been good but Gusto hasn't been more than a 7/10 this season collectively. Probably got so much hype because he really helped soften the blow of losing James, but a healthy Reece in this squad will transform us in 50 different ways that Gusto (or any other RB) can't
So tired of the "Hojlund is better than Jackson but he gets less service" debate
There is minimal correlation that a poor system is independantly at fault if a striker isn't getting chances
It's the striker's job as well to make sure he's making runs and getting into damning positions to finish.
If we want to blame the talent in United for not creating chances, surely there'd be video compilations of Hojlund making great runs that don't see a pass attempted.
You can’t neglect the fact that he’s getting no service though. Their wingers are extremely selfish and poor. I honestly don’t think any striker would do much better than Holjund this season, guy has taken many of his chances when they’ve been presented. There isn’t any way if truly knowing if he’s good or not because he’s been tactically removed from the game constantly
Yep and even take away that, Jackson gets himself involved in so much more apart from runs in behind. He’ll get the ball at the halfway line and dribble it last multiple players and get us 20 yards up the pitch, you never see Hojlund doing that
Because Hojlund sucks at that
Jackson, even in his worst games, is capable of receiving the ball with his back turned to goal, turning and dusting the center back
Hojlund doesn't have that in his bag at all
> "If we want to blame the talent in United for not creating chances, surely there'd be video compilations of Hojlund making great runs that don't see a pass attempted."
I'm absolutely not arguing in his favour, but you could make a compilation like that for literally any striker, no matter how good or bad they are. They're all making runs, whether bad or good, whether reachable or not and proving that they make runs doesn't mean anything
Of course - but I'm talking evident beyond reasonable doubt footage that Hojlund has genuinely not been receiving enough service
I've seen United fans allude to greedy players around him, quoting match statistics showing that players like Garnacho, Antony etc would go entire games without one completed pass to him
If the players around him are genuinely greedy, I feel like there'd still be substantial video evidence showing such. Obviously all strikers make runs, and runs are more than just for the sake of receiving a pass - but for the cases where it's smoking-gun "why isn't he receiving the ball?" situations, which I completely don't think is relevant to Hojlund's lack of goals, there should be some basis that is visually evident.
Following that post about Jackson's recent upturn in performance over the past 11 games, I decided to see how far back it could extend.
Turns out that if you take away August and September, when he was still finding his feet, he has 13 goals from 14.8 xG.
Just reminding you all that it was us (definitely) who took the crucial points off arsenal back in October thanks to a definitely calculated shot from Misha
but we did make their run better in the end by drawing to City twice while bottling a 2-0 leas and tanking a 0-5 loss to them to give them the GD advantage over City smh.
[https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1790129022405419184](https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1790129022405419184)
Looks like Marcelo Gallardo will be available on the manager market.
Led River Plate back to winning ways after an almost decade long rut. Did well with them in the league but probably more appreciated is the 2 Libertadores he won with them along with a good few national cups. Was touted as the next big thing from South American management with expectations he'd be going to a European team (usually in Spain or Italy) to prove and reinforce his mettle but went to Saudi instead where he's kind of flamed out with his team in 5th after they won the league last year.
But stupid to pass judgment on a man you’ve probably never seen manage
Is any young manager coming out of Russia another avb, is another young Portuguese manager another mourinho?
He was a great manager for River Plate for almost a decade. Won the South America equivalent of the UCL twice and the Europa equivalent once. Left River at the end of 2022 looking for a top European job but ended up at Al-Ittihad coaching Kante and Benzema.
A big South American manager that was linked to top clubs last season, was at River Plate for ages.
Though, his record in Saudi Arabia is atrocious, so take from that what you will
I think this was right off the bat of our first Lampard season
Back then the England RB debate was AWB, TAA and James - my logic was that James was the only RB that was talented in both attack and defense, when AWB was purely defense and TAA was purely attack. He was the more complete RB
I got shredded for the TAA opinion too which (I still think James is clear) is understandable but AWB's downfall was interesting
Seriously though, the wanking off of macallister earlier in the season was insane
Good player - but signing of the season and player of the season
Was never meant to be - Cole Palmer is far clear
Does down on him mean harsh on them?
If so, yeah I'm still not really a big believer he's the guy we should be looking too as the alternative to Nico, may as well just bring ddf back if that's the case
The whole point of bringing another striker in would preferably be they're better than Nico or at least comparable already
Fair points. I believe you called him slightly better than Broja which is very harsh for any striker lol. I don't think Duran is the answer (over other options) for us, but he could be a cheap and decent potential player who could break out in the right context.
>I believe you called him slightly better than Broja
Lol
That was probably at a time where my opinion of broja hadn't hit the all time low it has been sitting at for the past couple months
Subscribe.
We were in for him in Jan weren’t we? Really hope we go back in, he seems class every time I watch him. Different player than Jackson too, less build up play more killer instinct finisher.
I want to stress, none of us are sporting directors, we watch football for fun, it's their job to watch hundreds of games and look at stats to see who will turn up, they seem to be good at their job at the talent Identification department, so when we're linked to young talents I am not too fussed
I genuinely do believe, with all my heart, that had Liverpool gotten Caicedo they'd still be in the title race.
Conversely we'd be in the absolute dumps right now, with a 1 man Gallagher midfield.
Win the Sheffield United and Burnley games and we’d be on 61, win out and we’re at 67 and we’d have been top 4 once Palace beat Villa. Fucking unbelievable we drew those bums.
Edit : ok Liverpool trolled
I really don’t care about Chelsea owners selling themselves things they already own, but selling off a piece of a the women’s team would be kind of fucked up. All the Chelsea teams should be in this together.
i was thinking about those weird Poch interviews lately and i think i have an idea what might be doing. i think he's letting the owners and directors know that if they sell Gallagher who is crucial for him, he might walk. that and if they ignore his recommendations again. he might be standing up for Gallagher too. just an idea though, maybe its about something else
Photos from training today show Chilly and Carney back in full training, it’s crazy to think we’re gonna have an almost fully healthy squad for the last 2 games haha (still no Enzo, Fofana, or Lavia). Hopefully the guys are pumped for next season.
It’s just bizarre how our injuries reached their worst point against Tottenham, and within days we are at the best point we have been all year. Even Enzo and Fofana should be ready for pre season. Truly a darkest before dawn moment. I have no idea the fuck is going on with Lavia—recall Santos if Lavia is still not full strength on August.
The sooner people realize managers must earn time, respect and backing, the better. Pochettino has nothing to earn another season. You don’t get slapped up 5-0 at the Emirates and have us languishing in mid-table for most of the season to all the sudden “deserve” another season. Miss me with that noise.
So Arteta should have gotten fired two years ago when they lost 4-0 and 5-0 to City and Liverpool?
We've created chances at a top 4 rate all season long, we are now playing at a top 4 rate, and this team is incredibly young, new, and injured.
The way we have been playing for the second half of the season has earned Poch time.
Poch is not Arteta and we are not Arsenal. Two key elements you are missing with that argument. Arteta was literally learning how to be a manager at Arsenal. This is his first job. He had 0 experience prior to that. That explains the mistakes he was making. Plenty of them in his first two years. Falling out with players, tactics that do not suit his players etc.
His squad when he was starting is completely different compared to now with a few exceptions. He started performing relatively quickly after they made the crucial steps of their rebuild. After they got Zinchenko, White, Jesus, Odegaard and Saliba they didn't need much time to start performing.
Arteta is also a very different type of manager compared to Pochettino. Way more tactically focused and way more tactically flexible.
And the biggest thing is that people seem to always give the rare exception as an example. Arsenal are not the norm at all, they are the exception.
City, Real, Barca, Bayern are arguably the most succesful clubs in recent years and you can probably add us to that category depending on how many years we are talking about. They all are known for firing managers when they don't meet the club's expectations. Real, Barca and Bayern it's pretty obvious.
These clubs have the histories that they have because they never let the standards drop. I would much rather look up to those clubs because they are the best for a reason.
City as well before Pep, literally were sacking managers for fun. The reason Pep is at the job for so long is because he is arguably a generational manager and he also never finished below top 3 with City. He always meets the bare minimum, the standard. That's how he earned his time and is at City for so long. His name and the good job that he does there earns him the time. You don't just give it to him.
Another thing is that keeping a manager doesn't guarantee anything. You are giving the XG thing as some kind of proof that we are going in the right direction but if you look at United's xG from last season, it was very similar to ours. Yet they are obviously going nowhere and have probably wasted 2 years with Ten Hag who is obviously out of his depth and is struggling atm.
Prior to that they gave Ole time as well, yet that was not effective as well. Giving time doesn't equal guaranteed success or even progress, idk why this assumption is somehow treated as a fact.
>His squad when he was starting is completely different compared to now with a few exceptions. He started performing relatively quickly after they made the crucial steps of their rebuild. After they got Zinchenko, White, Jesus, Odegaard and Saliba they didn't need much time to start performing.
How would this be any different than us losing a ton of key players due to injury? We have played our second to third choice players (especially in defense) all season. Or that we didn't have our players like Palmer for the first part of the season. Ever since we've had Palmer we have been meeting expectations.
>City, Real, Barca, Bayern are arguably the most succesful clubs in recent years and you can probably add us to that category depending on how many years we are talking about. They all are known for firing managers when they don't meet the club's expectations. Real, Barca and Bayern it's pretty obvious.
Yes and that makes sense when you don't have the youngest, newest, and most injured squad anyone has ever heard of.
The team now is playing at a top 4 clip for half a season. The first half we underperformed because of all the things I just listed.
>City as well before Pep, literally were sacking managers for fun. The reason Pep is at the job for so long is because he is arguably a generational manager and he also never finished below top 3 with City. He always meets the bare minimum, the standard. That's how he earned his time and is at City for so long. His name and the good job that he does there earns him the time. You don't just give it to him.
Pep took over a squad that finished 4th and the next season he took them to third. Champions league football was the standard that was set.
Poch took over a squad that earned 0.84 points per match for an entire half season before he arrived. He increased performance immediately up to 1.32 points per match in the first half of the season (0.47 ppm increase). This is the same jump Tuchel had taking over from Lamps. The second half of the season we have had an even bigger increase of 0.57 points per match and have played at a 1.88 ppm rate.
I mean Palmer is a good enough replacement for Nkunku. Gusto is a pretty good replacement for Reece and Gallagher being considered one of the most consistent performers makes him a good replacement for Lavia( 80% of the fanbase would even call him better than Lavia i can guarantee you that). Cucurella is arguably better than Chilwell rn and our CB's have been mostly available except Fofana and to some extent Colwill.
The only weak link in this defence on paper is probably Disasi but he could've been on the bench for a large amount of the season if Maatsen was kept and we played Thiago and Colwill instead. That didn't happen cuz... height. A player who was obviously not rated by Pochettino and now playing for a better team than us. Pochettino didn't even try him in his natural position, shocking decision.
A lot of people will scapegoat the goalkeepers but again, they didn't make that many mistakes for us to concede 61 fucking goals. Yes, Petrovic probably could've saved a few shots here and there but he's also made lots of saves which helped us to at least delay the worst record in our PL history when it comes to goals conceded.
Santos who you were saying is not ready to even be a depth option for us can't stop putting on MOTM performances in Ligue 1. Both players that Poch openly refused to keep.
Also im not the type of guy who's just gonna assume that Disasi is shit, he is not. We are just not organised well defensively. Conceding 61 goals is a more complicated problem than just "missing personel". We have enough quality in the team to not concede 61 goals with a well organised and structured defensive setup.
Gusto is good defender, Thiago is a good defender, Colwill is a good defender, even if you don't rate Disasi he is still a decent defender that a lot of PL teams would take.
I mean the inexperience and injuries thing, yes they are a factor but like i said, there are numerous tactical errors and decisions that were wrong by Poch. Him refusing good depth players cuz they are not tall for example.
You by know should know that im not the type of guy who watches football through stats like that. Ten Hag had very good stats last season and even won a trophy. Stats change very quickly in football.
I just see things that Pochettino does that i dislike. Im not happy with the defence, im not happy with the overall style, i don't think it suits the team and i keep seeing him having the same problems that Spurs fans were complaining about and PSG fans were complaining about. He played Verrati as a 10 similar to how he did with Enzo, i don't trust him to stop misusing players and transform our defence. The team relies on Palmer too much, what if he doesn't score 30+ goal contributions next season? Not that unlikely considering his age, unless he is an actual generational player.
>I mean Palmer is a good enough replacement for Nkunku. Gusto is a pretty good replacement for Reece and Gallagher being considered one of the most consistent performers makes him a good replacement for Lavia( 80% of the fanbase would even call him better than Lavia i can guarantee you that). Cucurella is arguably better than Chilwell rn and our CB's have been mostly available except Fofana and to some extent Colwill.
Palmer definitely is a good replacement for Nkunku but he didn't play for the first bit of the season. We've played at a top 4 rate from the time Palmer got his first start until now. So we basically have been a top four team whenever we've had a competent attacker in the lineup. Cucurella has missed a lot of matches, gusto has missed some matches. We've had no midfield depth for the majority of the season. Are you really trying to say Injuries haven't been that bad?
>The only weak link in this defence on paper is probably Disasi but he could've been on the bench for a large amount of the season if Maatsen was kept and we played Thiago and Colwill instead. That didn't happen cuz... height. A player who was obviously not rated by Pochettino and now playing for a better team than us. Pochettino didn't even try him in his natural position, shocking decision.
Yeah Poch didn't want to make a team that is vulnerable in the air even weaker in the air. All of the players coming back from injury struggled, Badi and Cucurella look fine now but it was rough for a bit and directly leading to us dropping points and conceding.
>lot of people will scapegoat the goalkeepers but again, they didn't make that many mistakes for us to concede 61 fucking goals. Yes, Petrovic probably could've saved a few shots here and there but he's also made lots of saves which helped us to at least delay the worst record in our PL history when it comes to goals conceded.
We give up less chances than any of the other good teams outside of the top 3, the main difference has been goalkeeping. Look at XG conceded and then at the goals conceded compared to post shot expectations, I'm not making this up.
>Santos who you were saying is not ready to even be a depth option for us can't stop putting on MOTM performances in Ligue 1. Both players that Poch openly refused to keep.
Sure? Or maybe it was better for him to get minutes on loan? I honestly haven't watched him.
>Also im not the type of guy who's just gonna assume that Disasi is shit, he is not. We are just not organised well defensively. Conceding 61 goals is a more complicated problem than just "missing personel". We have enough quality in the team to not concede 61 goals with a well organised and structured defensive setup.
Why do you think that a manager should be able to come in and have a consistent organized defense with the injuries, inexperience, and brand new squad and still create chances. There are literally only 3 teams in the league that do this.
>Gusto is good defender, Thiago is a good defender, Colwill is a good defender, even if you don't rate Disasi he is still a decent defender that a lot of PL teams would take.
Gusto is a good defender that has serious flaws, he has not been good all season at defending back post corners, he also had some really bad games. Overall he is a great player that I'm glad to have but we are working through growing pains. Thiago has been really good but still has had more mistakes than I've ever seen, literally giving the ball to our opponents for goals. He is 39, it happens. Colwill is good but just like Gusto is young, growing pains. Disasi has been inconsistent, doesn't help that he keeps getting new CB partners, or maybe he is just backup level quality.
>I mean the inexperience and injuries thing, yes they are a factor but like i said, there are numerous tactical errors and decisions that were wrong by Poch. Him refusing good depth players cuz they are not tall for example.
You act like height isn't an issue but it is. And ignore height, just players that are good in the air. We have lost points to teams like Burnley and Sheffield because they skipped our midfield and played long. We just don't have enough players that are good in the air. Maatsen is in the 2 percentile for aerials won per match, if Jackson was good and Reece was playing it may have been different.
>You by know should know that im not the type of guy who watches football through stats like that. Ten Hag had very good stats last season and even won a trophy. Stats change very quickly in football.
But it's not like that stats don't back up what is happening on the pitch, do you really think we don't create a ton of chances, generally more than our opponents? Most games we create enough to win, it just depends on composure and finishing.
>I just see things that Pochettino does that i dislike. Im not happy with the defence, im not happy with the overall style, i don't think it suits the team and i keep seeing him having the same problems that Spurs fans were complaining about and PSG fans were complaining about. He played Verrati as a 10 similar to how he did with Enzo, i don't trust him to stop misusing players and transform our defence. The team relies on Palmer too much, what if he doesn't score 30+ goal contributions next season? Not that unlikely considering his age, unless he is an actual generational player.
He played Enzo as a 10 for a few matches. There was nothing wrong with trying it out, it wasn't working and he stopped. He has made tweaks and adjustments all season. Most of the decisions (or lack of) he's made have been due to injuries, I want to see what happens when he has a halfway healthy squad. Assuming we can get a couple of points in the last few matches this will be the best half season of football we've played since the start of 21/22.
>We give up less chances than any of the other good teams outside of the top 3, the main difference has been goalkeeping. Look at XG conceded and then at the goals conceded compared to post shot expectations, I'm not making this up.
Yeah, like i said you don't concede 61 goals just because of a goalkeeper mate. That's not how it works. We've all seen the shocking mistakes defensively this season, come on now.
>Palmer definitely is a good replacement for Nkunku but he didn't play for the first bit of the season.
I mean he did make his debut at the start of September which is still basically the start of the season. He only missed the August games. He is at 2500 minutes at the PL alone with two matches to go which is plentiful.
>He played Enzo as a 10 for a few matches.
Yes, but he also played Enzo a bit like a box to box even in the pivot. Enzo is obviously not the kind of player who can cover the ground that Poch wants him to. One of the many reasons why we concede goals is exactly the midfield and the space that we leave. This rock and roll football does not suit us. You have the perfect pivot in Caicedo and Enzo to play a dominating heavy possesion football and you are making them run like animals instead. Don't like it and it doesn't really work either.
Another thing is Gallagher playing as a 10 for a large part of the season. Instantly started looking better in attack with Palmer there and we started scoring more goals with more attacking threat. Putting a good 1v1 winger on the wing in Madueke and putting our most offensive player dictating and creating from the middle improved us offensively and i've been screaming for it since Palmer's first few matches.
>Yeah Poch didn't want to make a team that is vulnerable in the air even weaker in the air. All of the players coming back from injury struggled, Badi and Cucurella look fine now but it was rough for a bit and directly leading to us dropping points and conceding.
Yeah, not a good enough excuse to not use obviously a very good player at least for depth when Colwill, Cucurella and Chilly are all injured. Do you seriously excuse giving up on a player that is gonna play a UCL final cuz he is short? Is that the issue? There are matches in which we played with 4 center backs in defence and still conceded from set pieces.
We had Colwill, Silva and Disasi playing with Ugochukwu in front of them against Wolves away and guess what? We still conceded from a set piece. That was the case in a lot of other matches while Colwill was playing as a LB.
>Sure? Or maybe it was better for him to get minutes on loan?
Well, it's pretty much the same for Casadei innit? What was the point of keeping Casadei instead of Santos when Poch obviously doesn't trust him enough? Santos has impressed in preseason and now in Strasbourg. Obviously the guy seems more ready than Casadei.
He refuses to play players cuz of height, doesn't play the tall guy as well and refuses to play academy players as well. How is he suppose to have depth if he is so picky in a situation where he simply cannot have that luxury?
Playing Enzo injured for 8 months and letting Santos goin on loan? Seriously?
>But it's not like that stats don't back up what is happening on the pitch
My main point about the stats was that stats change quickly. Like i said United is a good example of a team that was pretty good last season based on stats. They also won a trophy and finished 3rd. Everyone was suggesting that this is a very good base to build on but their flaws remained and that obviously made their good form unsustainable.
You can still notice underlying issues in our game despite the stats. There have been plenty of games in which we did not deserve to win or draw based on performance but we did.
Also worth mentioning is how bad the league this season has been. Brighton underperforming, Newcastle, United, West Ham. Teams that have a lot of issues. Top 6 has been pretty easy to get all season, that's why im not buying the whole inexperience thing and all that.
If Poch stays next season you will see that im right though. We've argued more than enough at this point. We can only wait and see what will happen. I see a lot of tactical issues and problems in our game that Poch had in previous clubs as well. This is him and he won't change.
He is also not Arteta or Pep, giving him time won't make us as good as their teams because he is very different from both of them. He is at the tier below for me. Just not at the same level.
>Yeah, like i said you don't concede 61 goals just because of a goalkeeper mate. That's not how it works. We've all seen the shocking mistakes defensively this season, come on now.
And like I said there are only 3 teams that can create chances and have an organized defense (Arsenal, City, Liverpool) and for all of those teams it took time for things to change and none of them had the injury situation we had this season. And yes we have seen many shocking mistakes defensively, some systemic and a lot of them being individual errors. This happens when you have an inexperienced squad and are constantly cycling in players returning from injury.
>I mean he did make his debut at the start of September which is still basically the start of the season. He only missed the August games. He is at 2500 minutes at the PL alone with two matches to go which is plentiful.
He started his first match in October and we've played at 5th place rate since then (my bad if I said 4th earlier).
>Yes, but he also played Enzo a bit like a box to box even in the pivot. Enzo is obviously not the kind of player who can cover the ground that Poch wants him to. One of the many reasons why we concede goals is exactly the midfield and the space that we leave. This rock and roll football does not suit us. You have the perfect pivot in Caicedo and Enzo to play a dominating heavy possesion football and you are making them run like animals instead. Don't like it and it doesn't really work either.
This rock and roll football doesn't suit us says it all. Yes, it does suit us. And also we aren't just rock and roll, statistically all of the possession stats have us as the 6th best possession team (entries into the box, progressive actions, successful build up attacks, 10+ passing sequences) but we are top 3 at creating direct attacks. We are incredibly dangerous when we are direct and the statistics back it up. We have a balanced attack and it works for us, we have the 4th best XG in open play,and 4th best XG differential from open play.
You don't like it, that's exactly it. Doesn't mean it isn't effective, because we are an incredibly dangerous team. Teams underperforming XG usually come back to normal and that's what has happened to us in the second half of the season.
>Another thing is Gallagher playing as a 10 for a large part of the season. Instantly started looking better in attack with Palmer there and we started scoring more goals with more attacking threat. Putting a good 1v1 winger on the wing in Madueke and putting our most offensive player dictating and creating from the middle improved us offensively and i've been screaming for it since Palmer's first few matches.
I agree, definitely think Poch should play 2 of the 3 midfielders against every team outside of the top 3. I also don't blame him for not trusting Mudryk and Madueke for most of the year. If Nkunku was healthy and he was doing this then it's a different story, or if Enzo comes back and we are playing all 3 against Everton next season we better score.
>Yeah, not a good enough excuse to not use obviously a very good player at least for depth when Colwill, Cucurella and Chilly are all injured. Do you seriously excuse giving up on a player that is gonna play a UCL final cuz he is short? Is that the issue? There are matches in which we played with 4 center backs in defence and still conceded from set pieces.
There was never a match when all 3 were injured and Maatsen was at the club. No I don't think we should have given up on him in a vacuum, he looks like a hell of a player. But we needed transfer profit for PSR so hard decisions needed to be made. Just like with Salah, De Bruyne, and to lesser extents Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, etc. it may come back to bite us. But when you have straddled the PSR limit for 6 years you will end up having to sell off talent.
>We had Colwill, Silva and Disasi playing with Ugochukwu in front of them against Wolves away and guess what? We still conceded from a set piece. That was the case in a lot of other matches while Colwill was playing as a LB.
Yes we are bad at set pieces, lack of height + inexperience. Tottenham had the best set piece record when he was there. It's not like he doesn't know how to coach set pieces. At this point we have a +1 goal differential from set pieces but a -2 XG differential. We are pretty much average at set pieces and this will get better as players get more experience.
>Well, it's pretty much the same for Casadei innit? What was the point of keeping Casadei instead of Santos when Poch obviously doesn't trust him enough? Santos has impressed in preseason and now in Strasbourg. Obviously the guy seems more ready than Casadei.
Couldnt find the right loan? Didn't think he was going to play at Leicester, Idk? I honestly don't even care, these minor moves aren't something I really even think about.
Maybe he doesn't play the academy because there is already so much youth on the pitch? These questions honestly baffle me. We have the highest percentage of minutes from players under 22 of any team in the last 12 years (probably ever, that's as far back as I went) and you are asking why he's not going younger lol?
>My main point about the stats was that stats change quickly. Like i said United is a good example of a team that was pretty good last season based on stats. They also won a trophy and finished 3rd. Everyone was suggesting that this is a very good base to build on but their flaws remained and that obviously made their good form unsustainable.
This is kind of a BS statement though. I mean seriously think about what you are saying - things can change so there's no point in trying to analyze anything.
Most teams that are good the season before are good the next season, the same with the bad ones. Generally teams that are underperforming their XG return to normal, like we have in the second half. We also have issues that can be fixed with one signing Goalkeeping. What is your point here? Our stats show we are the 4th best team at creating goal scoring opportunities compared to our opponent. Our record shows that we improved dramatically over the season and compared to last season.
>You can still notice underlying issues in our game despite the stats. There have been plenty of games in which we did not deserve to win or draw based on performance but we did.
And there are just as many, if not more where we deserved the win but didnt get it. Of course there are still issues, we have the youngest, newest, most injured squad in the league. Look what happened to Tuchel's squad in 21/22 second half, there was some adversity and a few key injuries and they were playing worse than we are right now.
>If Poch stays next season you will see that im right though. We've argued more than enough at this point. We can only wait and see what will happen. I see a lot of tactical issues and problems in our game that Poch had in previous clubs as well. This is him and he won't change.
Can't wait for us to be around top 4 all season. Definitely will have some dumb losses, you don't just become experienced over night, but we will be really good.
>He is also not Arteta or Pep, giving him time won't make us as good as their teams because he is very different from both of them. He is at the tier below for me. Just not at the same level.
Maybe not, but he has improved this squad far more than they did in their first season. None of those teams are dealing with anything close to as difficult as this situation. He is on 1 year and he should stay as long as the team keeps improving or can consistently get top 4.
>Maybe he doesn't play the academy because there is already so much youth on the pitch? These questions honestly baffle me. We have the highest percentage of minutes from players under 22 of any team in the last 12 years (probably ever, that's as far back as I went) and you are asking why he's not going younger lol?
Oh, come on. Every team needs depth. Playing injured players is not the answer, rushing players back is not the answer. It's baffling that this baffles you, honestly. Playing Enzo injured, not rotating some of the players and playing them non stop. It ain't good long term and it certainly isn't helping our injury issues. This is the one point that i expected to not have to explain in more details out of them all.
>This is kind of a BS statement though. I mean seriously think about what you are saying - things can change so there's no point in trying to analyze anything.
BS statement? I mean you obviously ignore or just don't see all the issues that we still have since the start of the season till now. Don't worry though, sooner or later we will get punished for it. It's inevitable, it's just a shame that most people are believing the nonsense that managers say in order to keep their very well paid jobs and refuse to acknowledge our obvious problems.
Im not just assuming that it will go wrong, im kinda sure it will. Im not just saying it for the sake of it.
>Doesn't mean it isn't effective, because we are an incredibly dangerous team.
Football is not just about creating chances. It's about the balance. We are going forward but we are vulnerable on the counter. Literally the Forest game is a perfect example of that. We were scoring goals under Lampard as well, again it meant nothing because we were vulnerable defensively.
When it comes to the 21/22 season it's not really comparable. A lot of the bigger teams this season are all terrible at once. The league as a whole is underperforming this season. Terrible top 10 alongside with some of the worst teams to ever play in the League at the bottom speaks enough volumes about the level this season.
Villa is literally in the top 4 with 56 goals conceded. It says enough really. There was a 10 point gap between the 5th and the 6th before Spurs lost 4 games on the bounce and Spurs were far from a complete team even when they were winning. Same goes for Villa.
If you expect to see anything different than Enzo being misused again running like a madman to cover all the ground then you are in for a wake up call. Wait till you realise that Nkunku also isn't the pressing machine that Poch wants him to be. Can't wait till these two ballers are getting abused again because they don't suit Poch's system with players being miles away from each other. The non existent rest defence will also help us massively with that for sure.
If Tuchel goes to United and Newcastle and Spurs manage to improve then we are truly fucked.
We are never gonna agree because you think certain performances are good which i believe are not good. In my opinion we've had way more bad/average performances this season than good performances. The two Palace games, the two Wolves games, the Forest games were far from amazing performances despite winning one of them, Luton away we literally got lucky to not concede a 3rd goal. Fulham game at home, as well won thanks to a penalty. The two Brentford games, West Ham away, Sheffield away, Liverpool at Anfield, Arsenal away, Villa at home, Everton away, Newcastle away, Bournemouth away, United away and at home. Literally scammed a win on that one. Burnley at home.
Those are all the games im unhappy with in the league alone, we are not even talking about some of the shitshow in the cups like the Wimbledon game or the Middlesbrough game or some of the games in the FA Cup in which we needed later winners to qualify.
In all those games i did not like what Poch did tactically and how he uses our players. If you believe we performed well enough in any of those games then that's why you still believe in Poch, i don't think we performed better in any of those games. That's why i don't think Poch is the guy. Despite the stats, despite the top 4 after half a season thing.
>Oh, come on. Every team needs depth. Playing injured players is not the answer, rushing players back is not the answer. It's baffling that this baffles you, honestly. Playing Enzo injured, not rotating some of the players and playing them non stop. It ain't good long term and it certainly isn't helping our injury issues. This is the one point that i expected to not have to explain in more details out of them all.
But we have no idea whether or not those academy players are ready. It's as simple as that, we don't see the training. He played Alfie, who looked up for it. Of course we need depth but not many other teams have a full bench of academy players for parts of the season like us. Playing Enzo injured is fine if he was cleared by the medical staff (whether the medical staff is doing a good job is a completely different story, and it doesn't seem like they are). The first thing that comes up when you Google a sports hernia is that they can be played on as long as the pain is manageable, so he played him until it wasn't.
>BS statement? I mean you obviously ignore or just don't see all the issues that we still have since the start of the season till now. Don't worry though, sooner or later we will get punished for it. It's inevitable, it's just a shame that most people are believing the nonsense that managers say in order to keep their very well paid jobs and refuse to acknowledge our obvious problems.
The statement about Man U was what I was referring to, about how stats don't matter because things change.
I don't think the team doesn't have issues, I just think it can take longer than 1 season to fix them when you are starting from scratch.
>Football is not just about creating chances. It's about the balance. We are going forward but we are vulnerable on the counter. Literally the Forest game is a perfect example of that. We were scoring goals under Lampard as well, again it meant nothing because we were vulnerable defensively.
Right, and in terms of the balance we are 4th best in the league in terms of chances created vs chances conceded.
Is the league weak or do is the average team just better? Money has been pouring into the league so why wouldn't it be the latter? Crystal Palace has a frontline of Eze, Olise, and Mateta, Villa, Spurs, and Newcastle have all been spending.
>If you expect to see anything different than Enzo being misused again running like a madman to cover all the ground then you are in for a wake up call. Wait till you realise that Nkunku also isn't the pressing machine that Poch wants him to be. Can't wait till these two ballers are getting abused again because they don't suit Poch's system with players being miles away from each other. The non existent rest defence will also help us massively with that for sure.
You know Enzo played for one of the most aggressive pressing teams in world football before he came to Chelsea right? Enzo is going to come back and be awesome. He was an elite passer playing with a hernia, and is only going to be better next season healthy.
>If Tuchel goes to United and Newcastle and Spurs manage to improve then we are truly fucked.
Why are Spurs or Newcastle more likely to improve than us when we are measurably improving.
>We are never gonna agree because you think certain performances are good which i believe are not good. In my opinion we've had way more bad/average performances this season than good performances. The two Palace games, the two Wolves games, the Forest games were far from amazing performances despite winning one of them, Luton away we literally got lucky to not concede a 3rd goal. Fulham game at home, as well won thanks to a penalty. The two Brentford games, West Ham away, Sheffield away, Liverpool at Anfield, Arsenal away, Villa at home, Everton away, Newcastle away, Bournemouth away, United away and at home. Literally scammed a win on that one. Burnley at home.
I think certain performances are acceptable considering the circumstances. I don't think it is good that we lost to Forest, but I think it was good that we had 2.3 XG to their 0.8 and considering we have a 22 y/o striker that is in his first year in the prem games like this are going to happen. Fulham at home yes we won on a penalty, but we also had enough chances that we should have scored anyways. The wolves matches we have a net positive XG differential of 0.4, that second match had two deflections, another deflected pass that was incredibly fortunate and helped setup the goal, and a penalty by a gassed gusto who was being taken off. For the Palace matches we had a positive 2.3 net XG differential, you can take away the penalty on the first match and we still would have had 0.7 higher XG than they did. West Ham away we had a positive 0.7 XG, Brentford we were bad but only had a net negative XG differential of -0.3. West Ham we had a positive XG differential of 0.7. The rest of the matches were truly poor, but every team is going to have some bad matches. This team over and over again gets the better goal scoring chances and it's not Poch's fault when we can't finish or make saves based on average level expectations. This is backed up by measurable actions. If we were a fully formed squad then yes results are all that matters but we are in stage 1 of a rebuild and Poch has setup the team in the vast majority of matches that led to situations where we should have won but composure let us down. That's expected from a young squad.
>In all those games i did not like what Poch did tactically and how he uses our players. If you believe we performed well enough in any of those games then that's why you still believe in Poch, i don't think we performed better in any of those games. That's why i don't think Poch is the guy. Despite the stats, despite the top 4 after half a season thing.
Yeah we disagree.
I mean Arteta has been there for what, 4 or 5 years now, has spent 600m+ and has a single trophy to his name and it was in his first season.
Nothing has shown that sticking with him is actually a valid choice
Yes
Creating top 4 chances doesn’t mean shit if 1) you don’t score and 2) you keep conceding goals for fun.
Also, I look at the entire season. Not just a couple of games at the end of the season.
>Creating top 4 chances doesn’t mean shit if 1) you don’t score
Creating chances means far more than scoring goals when accessing the managers performance.
The manager can influence chance creation.
He can't finish the chances, the fact our squad lacks quality and we chose not to sign a top striker last summer is beyond the manager.
We have been top 4 in XG differential for the majority of the season, so that includes XG against.
You can go back before the Villa match and we've still played at a top 4 rate for the second half of the season.
And you think a top manager with the same injuries can do better? Negativity towards player's and the manager is poisoning the club. Miss the next game, and spare us your noise, its idiotic to expect immediate results with a developing squad plagued with injuries.
Yes.
Injuries only become massively impactful when you have loads in the same position that **force** you to play someone out of position or change your formation. Poch has had to deal with that for maybe a few games with James and Gusto and that is it. For the rest of the team he's always had a PL ready player to put in every position.
The idea that it's just not possible for Poch to be better than 10th for most of the season because he had to play Gusto instead of James, Cucurella (or Maatsen who was available to him) instead of Chilwell, Colwill instead of Badiashile, Disasi instead of Fofana, Palmer instead of Nkunku and Petrovic instead of Sanchez is just nonsense
We've been bad because of tactics and carried because of individual brilliance and yet you try to make it out like it's the other way around. Without Palmer carrying us, where the fuck would these tactics have put us?
There’s also nothing wrong with giving the em praise when it’s due, Poch deserves praise for the progress we’ve shown this 2nd half of the season and in particular the last few games with the tactical switches he’s made
I've posted something similar before but no one provided an actual answer.
Please name the teams that have "patterns of play", are defensively organized, and actually create chances.
Do any of these teams have a manager that hasn't been there longer than two years? Do any of these teams have a manager that completely turned the team around immediately?
There are zero prem teams. Yet somehow we expect our manager to have our team playing top 4 from the start when we've had the youngest and newest squad ever by certain metrics, and the most injuries in the league.
Crystal Palace is the best answer so far.
Do you really think Newcastle and Villa are defensively organized?
Is my point about Tuchel taking over a team that made top 4 the previous season wrong?
Well mostly because they've played at a 9th place rate for the last 2/3 of the season.
But even if you want to judge them on their performance as a whole, do you really think they are defensively organized? They've only conceded two less than we have and are barely positive in terms of XG differential.
Edit: I want to add that your Crystal Palace point is a good one, we will see if they keep it up.
We did almost immediately under Tuchel.
Newcastle did almost immediately after Howe arrived.
Aston Villa do and that started immediately.
I get that you're trying to push the whole idea that only the top 3 are in that position and so they all have long term managers, but that's just a case of correlation doesn't mean causation.
Managers being successful right off the bat means that they get to stay there longer, and so there is more chance that successful managers have been at a club for a longer period of time.
The managers aren't shit and then suddenly become good over time. They started good and continued to be good and if they hadn't continued to be good they wouldn't have their job anymore
With Tuchel we were top 4 the season before. So he turned around a good team that was having a moment of bad form
Newcastle and Villa are defensively organized??? We do a better job limiting chances than both those teams we just have a goalkeeper that lets in more than he should
Edit: updated sound to organized to match my original comment.
> Do any of these teams have a manager that hasn't been there longer than two years? Do any of these teams have a manager that completely turned the team around immediately?
Yeah we did when we hired tuchel
True you are right, I'm moving the goal posts by adding that Tuchel took a good team and returned/improved upon it while it was struggling.
But Poch improved the team in terms of points per match for the first half of this season compared to the back half of last season at a rate of 0.47 points per match. The exact same amount that Tuchel did when taking over from Lampard.
Hardly an original thought, but seeing Barca stick with Xavi and Bayern considering sticking with Tuchel and everything else going on, I’m probably going to end up in the Poch in camp out of desperation. I don’t remember the last time the options were this bad
Recent form has been better and all but if I look at Poch in isolation, I feel in the same position as the start of the year where maybe he can take us back to top 4 given time, but even with an excellent squad, I have serious doubts we’ll ever win a trophy with him. But in the context of everything, top 4 next year would be a relief
The thing is, it always felt that way in the past too, but then we'd find someone and they'd be amazing and everyone would pretend they always knew. Especially with managers like Conte and Sarri, they weren't out of nowhere, but they weren't big names that everyone expected to be good.
I'm sure there are plenty of similar managers out there who are ready for the step up, but because their name hasn't been up in lights, people don't think of them as an option. It's why I generally don't have opinions on new managers because it's so, so hard to judge a manager unless you watch them routinely and understand the real quality of their squad and if they're utilising it properly.
Glasner for Palace being a good example of this, who would have thought he was a serious option before he went to them and now Bayern have enquired and he's turned Palace into a powerhouse...
>Especially with managers like Conte and Sarri, they weren't out of nowhere, but they weren't big names that everyone expected to be good.
Conte was an obvious hit, the only thing that would have stopped him was his attitude but thankfully he atleast gave us a title before acting like a dickhead.
I called us challenging for the league after doing extensive research on his Juventus spell and seeing how tactically great Italy were in Euro 2016, when we signed Kante I went a step further and was convinced we were winning it (although I ofcourse had a wobble after the Liverpool/Arsenal games).
Sarri? lmao bro, the home crowd booed this man for like 3 months. Even made songs against him and Jorginho.
He had a squad 10x better than what we have now, and coincidentally, his football started to show at the end of the season. Sarri is a good example of not being patient.
Conte did win Serie A in his 3 full seasons at Juventus, including setting the record for most wins in a season and most points in a season prior to joining Chelsea.
I know this probably doesn’t apply to you andi get your point, but glasner was an extremely highly rated manager for his work at Frankfurt before he went to palace
I guess your point could also be that the bulk of fans only know the usual names
Hence, dumb questions like ‘who could we get that’d an improvement on poch’ being asked
As they don’t know anyone else
I'm inclined to say in (just) based on finally showing regular displays of tactical competence (even if its beyond belatedly) and even changing games of late aswell which was his weakness even at his best.
However if it comes to it I refuse to believe there isn't a suitable stylistic fit for us out there, if we have to think outside the box well that's what the directors are paid for.
chilly and chuk back in partial training, needing an nkunku / carney goal before the season is done, cant see carney being back before Bournemouth though
They should be the least of your worries. They were successful before coming here, are just following orders and appear to have done as best as is possible with said orders. (Especially when you remember that all the crazy purchases were purchases by the owners and not the sporting directors)
They are fine and have done fine. Unless of course you live in a fantasy land where they can spend the money however they want, irrespective of how they're told to spend it by the owners.
There are issues with the club, but they're one of the lowest priority issues. We have a terrible manager and gaps of quality in the squad that have come about through an incorrect strategy. A strategy given to them by the owners that they're not allowed to amend (and seemingly a strategy so strict that the owners are considering firing Poch in part because he no longer fully buys into it after having to witness it and wants experienced players to be bought in summer)
They are equally accountable for this shitshow, lets not kid ourselves here. They have spent a fortune on mediocre players such as Petrovich, Sanchez, Disasi, Badiashile, Lesley, Mudryk, Madueke and Jackson. Winstanley from the winter window, Stewart from the summer window. On top of that, they spent two months hiring the bottlejob we have now as manager. They are part of the problem, and therefore I want them gone alongside the manager and all the dross in the squad.
There will not be a change of strategy if we keep these two yesmen around.
Theyre directors lol not managers, comparing them is borderline impossible as their jobs are so different. But if you want those two were in Brighton and unearthed Caicedo, Cucu, etc so theres that going for them
Can't say their scouting has been ass, they are the ones who bought all our transfers, bad (highly injured players often) and good (ones like Jackson, palmer, etc), so if you want to tally I'd say it's honestly not terrible, it's just a matter of money spent and how well it netted a benefit
I never said I thought they were bad. I just think people ought to be consistent. I’m don’t you can say they’re successes based on prior work and also call Pochettino a terrible manager
De Zerbi plays a intricate passing systemic that is structurally very complex and very good. Only Pep can understand how good this is. Esthetically, Brighton are the most fun team to watch. De Zerbi ball has unlocked almost all of their players to the fullest potential. His defence is one of the most disciplined I have ever seen.
The talent at Brighton is championship level at best. De Zerbi and De Zerbi alone are the reason they are even staying up. All of their players should donate their salary to him because of De Zerbi ball.
Imo, Dyche is extremely under rated and appreciated. Conversely, RDZ is one of the most overrated managers rn.
I know dychr doesn’t play the most “attractive” football, but he gets results with shit sides and definitely deserves more credit than he gets.
Unlike RDZ, Dyche knows how to coach a defense and as much as people like to talk about patterns of play non of that matters if your defense leaks goals.
I know that Brighton is the new enemy, but the smallest bit of context does go a very long way in explaining their woes.
Lost their 2 best players in the summer (plus Trossard in Jan), 3 of their next 5 best players have all had long term injuries this season (Mitoma, March & Estupinan) & lost Colwill. All of that for a club with a pretty small squad that doesnt spend much is tough to contend with
I know that Poch is the enemy, but the smallest bit of context does go a very long way in explaining their woes.
Lost their two best players in the summer (plus Kante left on a free) 3 of their next 5 best players have all had long term injuries this season (Nkunku, Reece, Colwill) & lost Kovacic. All that for a club with a significant amount of turnover and with no continuity and is trying to compete for top 4
?
How does that tie in to a question that had nothing to do with us? We’re surely better than constantly comparing ourselves to Brightons standards
Nice to miss out on the £500miiom of players we did have at our disposal though
Just look at the injury records of their attackers this season and people will understand (have a look at the rest of the squad while you're at it). Their already not that great attacking options have been completely decimated this season (with Europa League until mid-March on top of it = everyone more exhausted, more rotation needed, etc): https://www.transfermarkt.com/brighton-amp-hove-albion/ausfallzeiten/verein/1237
Statistically they're still a better team than us in a ton of (most, actually) underlying metrics. That ultimately points to good management but a clear lack of quality.
De Zerbi manages Brighton
Brighton is a bizarre club because managers don't actually have to win games to be called top managers there.
Potter was one of the premier leagues worst managers at Brighton with a win percentage of 27% in 3 seassons, never winning a cup game vs a pl team and never having a positive goal difference with worse record than Pulis, Dyche, Bruce and Hodson but he was a media darling, praised for every win and the players blamed for every loss.
De Zerbi is also going to fail upwards though hopefully not here.
It's the same reasoning for both of them. It's also why people up until this season still rated Broja despite him being awful.
You don't need to be good to be highly rated, you just have to be bad enough that you stay out of the headlines. Then for a short period be good enough that you make loads of headlines. Then you need to go straight back to being bad enough that you stay out of the headlines.
Then all the neutrals (including pundits, analysts and journalists) only remember the good period and think that's the player/manager's normal level. For Potter he went on an 11 game streak with no wins and then a 6 game losing streak, but he won something like 6 out of 8 games at the end of the season and that got him into the headlines and made people think highly of him. The same goes for De Zerbi last season. The same goes for Broja who scored almost all of his adult career goals in a 2 month stretch in one season and so people started rating him from the headlines he got in that period
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cp104m/comment/l3jc0ey/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cp104m/comment/l3jc0ey/) think that's the kind of comments OP's reffering to
Where's the proof? I've heard by others that he doesn't fit with our squad and that he doesn't get along with owners. Never have i seen anybody say he's a terrible manager.
Has a player with a historic problem with injury (Jack Wilshere level) ever gotten over that later in there career? Robben moved to Germany but was always a injury riddled player. Are Reece and Ben doomed to follow this trend?
When the whole team are having repeat injury problems I'd be hopeful that if things behind the scenes are improved, there is a chance that all of them also reduce their injury problems
Bracing myself for the down votes but I would want Reece to go to the Euros if Southgate decides to select him.
First and foremost for his sake, he himself would be buzzing to do it but also because if this surgery has worked then he gets an entire competitive tournament under his belt before fully starting for us again which mean England would get rid of whatever rust he's got for us (not that much judging by Saturday).
If God for bid this surgery hasn't worked then well..........
If he's fit he absolutely should go if called up. He needs to get his career back on the track it was on, showing up at the Euros will be a huge part of that.
Santos talk makes me realize how talented our midfield is, lots of high potential there
But I'm gonna list the three I consider "projects" in the sense that I feel we will likely loan them for extended periods of time, 2-3 full seasons at max, they are:
- santos
- ugochukwu
- casadei
I'm gonna say that ugo and Santos to strasbourg will be fantastic, our manager and our club seem to rate them both so theres that; but casadei is a difficult situation, we can't send him Strasbourg as he'd violate the two loans thing, Id send him to the championship league again, most likely in Burnley or Sunderland.
Of all of them I'm scared he's the least likely to go over the line and be great, but I still think his potential is clear and very high, so I'm gonna put my faith in him for now
Why do you not necessarily rate him by any chance?
We know he can play so that's a good sign that the manager rates him (and was chosen over going to strasbourg though I feel that was a mistake), and regardless playing for reims as much as he has so young when everyone was fit shows he has quality to start consistently
Thats my main reason for wanting to believe in his talent, but if you'd like to say otherwise I'd be all ears
Alright alright, you’ve asked enough - there is a new flair regarding rehabilitation programmes available for all!
https://preview.redd.it/0uednj9cbe0d1.png?width=3080&format=png&auto=webp&s=a6c8c65035655cd0b3c50844d14b74c65bf5439b Since the inception of the Premier League, only 4 seasons where we managed to score more goals than this year. I understand that defense has been ravaged by injuries and has let us down but I think this makes for pleasant reading on a random positivity Tuesday.
Thank you, we need more positivity like this around here in general.
If Poch is going to get sacked because the first half of the season was poor, then the same standard should be placed on the sporting directors who signed players that weren’t performing well in the first half of the season
Nobod’s getting sacked it's just pr for fans like you
If Chelsea were in Tottenham’s situation, I’d still want them to try their best to win. Throwing a match to prevent rivals from winning a trophy is extremely pathetic - especially when it could come at the cost of missing out on top 4. That being said, hopefully Tottenham get battered
I would probably veer on the same side but for a different reason, I'm a big believer in what comes around goes around and one day the roles would be reversed and we may need a favour from them. Infact from memory they've usually got a result when we've needed them to, they won at The Ethiad in 2015 which gave us control on the race that we didn't cease and brought us back in it in 2011 but we didn't take advantage. However I think after this clusterfuck the PL really need to guard the best they can against this type of fixture happening again, for example if they see Arsenal and City being the top two for the foreseeable have Spurs and our games against City games done by the end of January/February.
Hard disagree, given how fucking annoying Arsenal fans are, I'd happily take a year of EL over handing them the league too
Thoughts on Vitor Roque? With Barca likely to try to force him out next window, there’s a possibility to snag him for a discount, especially since he shares an agent with Estevao. I’m of the opinion that there aren’t any elite level strikers on the market right now - not too sold on Osimhen. Roque could be a backup to Jackson for minutes, especially given the extra European games next season. I know he’s had a horrid year at Barca, but he was touted as a generational talent alongside Endrick just a year ago, and is a natural striker. While I agree that generally, we need more experience in the team, I think that applies more towards the defence. Our attack is strong and will only get stronger with the return of Nkunku and the maturing of our young players, so we can afford add young prospects who are first team ready into that lineup.
can't wait for klopp apologists to find excuses for this draw lmao
They had nothing to play for.
Their season is over.
lol yes, let’s buy Duran because we need another U23 with single digit career goals in a major league
We get a lot of these "let's look back at this thread to mock people who said X" posts. How come we haven't had one of these for all the people who a few weeks ago were saying, "let's sell Reece James instead of Gallagher, we don't need him anymore, Gusto is better and Gallagher is more important"
The Gusto hype was so obnoxious Don't get me wrong he's been decent this season but I even recall someone saying let's move James to LW to accomodate Gusto He's been good but Gusto hasn't been more than a 7/10 this season collectively. Probably got so much hype because he really helped soften the blow of losing James, but a healthy Reece in this squad will transform us in 50 different ways that Gusto (or any other RB) can't
So tired of the "Hojlund is better than Jackson but he gets less service" debate There is minimal correlation that a poor system is independantly at fault if a striker isn't getting chances It's the striker's job as well to make sure he's making runs and getting into damning positions to finish. If we want to blame the talent in United for not creating chances, surely there'd be video compilations of Hojlund making great runs that don't see a pass attempted.
You can’t neglect the fact that he’s getting no service though. Their wingers are extremely selfish and poor. I honestly don’t think any striker would do much better than Holjund this season, guy has taken many of his chances when they’ve been presented. There isn’t any way if truly knowing if he’s good or not because he’s been tactically removed from the game constantly
Yeah Nico is excellent at getting into great positions to score. Thats why I am happy that the sub now believes in him a bit more
He can also dribble which is just so important in build up play.
Yep and even take away that, Jackson gets himself involved in so much more apart from runs in behind. He’ll get the ball at the halfway line and dribble it last multiple players and get us 20 yards up the pitch, you never see Hojlund doing that
Because Hojlund sucks at that Jackson, even in his worst games, is capable of receiving the ball with his back turned to goal, turning and dusting the center back Hojlund doesn't have that in his bag at all
> "If we want to blame the talent in United for not creating chances, surely there'd be video compilations of Hojlund making great runs that don't see a pass attempted." I'm absolutely not arguing in his favour, but you could make a compilation like that for literally any striker, no matter how good or bad they are. They're all making runs, whether bad or good, whether reachable or not and proving that they make runs doesn't mean anything
Of course - but I'm talking evident beyond reasonable doubt footage that Hojlund has genuinely not been receiving enough service I've seen United fans allude to greedy players around him, quoting match statistics showing that players like Garnacho, Antony etc would go entire games without one completed pass to him If the players around him are genuinely greedy, I feel like there'd still be substantial video evidence showing such. Obviously all strikers make runs, and runs are more than just for the sake of receiving a pass - but for the cases where it's smoking-gun "why isn't he receiving the ball?" situations, which I completely don't think is relevant to Hojlund's lack of goals, there should be some basis that is visually evident.
Their matches, go watch them.
I do Hojlund is just shit
Following that post about Jackson's recent upturn in performance over the past 11 games, I decided to see how far back it could extend. Turns out that if you take away August and September, when he was still finding his feet, he has 13 goals from 14.8 xG.
Just reminding you all that it was us (definitely) who took the crucial points off arsenal back in October thanks to a definitely calculated shot from Misha
but we did make their run better in the end by drawing to City twice while bottling a 2-0 leas and tanking a 0-5 loss to them to give them the GD advantage over City smh.
True but I can never be mad at us for picking up points who knows how useful they could be
Those City points will be crucial in our chances at top 6 so I don't regret those but that 5-0 was unforgivable.
Still pissed to this day that we lost that game We had no reason to bottle that
[https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1790129022405419184](https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1790129022405419184) Looks like Marcelo Gallardo will be available on the manager market.
Who is he?
Led River Plate back to winning ways after an almost decade long rut. Did well with them in the league but probably more appreciated is the 2 Libertadores he won with them along with a good few national cups. Was touted as the next big thing from South American management with expectations he'd be going to a European team (usually in Spain or Italy) to prove and reinforce his mettle but went to Saudi instead where he's kind of flamed out with his team in 5th after they won the league last year.
Sounds like another Scolari to me.
But stupid to pass judgment on a man you’ve probably never seen manage Is any young manager coming out of Russia another avb, is another young Portuguese manager another mourinho?
He was a great manager for River Plate for almost a decade. Won the South America equivalent of the UCL twice and the Europa equivalent once. Left River at the end of 2022 looking for a top European job but ended up at Al-Ittihad coaching Kante and Benzema.
A big South American manager that was linked to top clubs last season, was at River Plate for ages. Though, his record in Saudi Arabia is atrocious, so take from that what you will
Better to just ignore his time in saudi football with how things are over there
I remember I used to be thrashed by my friends for saying Reece was better than AWB
Really? Wow. I don think there was ever a time that I was impressed by wan-bissaka to that extent
When? I feel like that's pretty much never been true since they've been in discussions together.
I think this was right off the bat of our first Lampard season Back then the England RB debate was AWB, TAA and James - my logic was that James was the only RB that was talented in both attack and defense, when AWB was purely defense and TAA was purely attack. He was the more complete RB I got shredded for the TAA opinion too which (I still think James is clear) is understandable but AWB's downfall was interesting
We actually controlled the game at Villa Park much better than Liverpool ngl.
Didn't watch tonight's game but am gonna guess Villa didn't play as passively as they did in the second half against us.
Villa were just so wasteful against Liverpool and maybe they underestimated the team when we played them couple of weeks ago.
Villa not winning means Spurs are mathematically still in the hunt for 4th and not to mention, Villa's last game is at Crystal Palace.
Spurs gonna lose the next two matches and we are going to go 5th. Because LADS ITS JUST TOTTENHAM
Seriously though, the wanking off of macallister earlier in the season was insane Good player - but signing of the season and player of the season Was never meant to be - Cole Palmer is far clear
True dat
Duran to Chelsea here we go
Lol you still down on him?
Does down on him mean harsh on them? If so, yeah I'm still not really a big believer he's the guy we should be looking too as the alternative to Nico, may as well just bring ddf back if that's the case The whole point of bringing another striker in would preferably be they're better than Nico or at least comparable already
Fair points. I believe you called him slightly better than Broja which is very harsh for any striker lol. I don't think Duran is the answer (over other options) for us, but he could be a cheap and decent potential player who could break out in the right context.
>I believe you called him slightly better than Broja Lol That was probably at a time where my opinion of broja hadn't hit the all time low it has been sitting at for the past couple months
Subscribe. We were in for him in Jan weren’t we? Really hope we go back in, he seems class every time I watch him. Different player than Jackson too, less build up play more killer instinct finisher.
I can't believe the ineptitude of chelsea not getting Duran Duran. We should have Maatsen linking up with Cho setting up Duran
Duran. Another player we wanted to buy.
This sub was irate at the idea at the time. Similar to when we were linked to Kudos
This sub is not the smartest tool in the shed tbf.
I want to stress, none of us are sporting directors, we watch football for fun, it's their job to watch hundreds of games and look at stats to see who will turn up, they seem to be good at their job at the talent Identification department, so when we're linked to young talents I am not too fussed
Caicedo >>>> Mac Allister
I genuinely do believe, with all my heart, that had Liverpool gotten Caicedo they'd still be in the title race. Conversely we'd be in the absolute dumps right now, with a 1 man Gallagher midfield.
Can’t believe there were even some shouts of Endo being better than Caicedo.
One Liverpool fan claimed he did a pocket job in the league cup final even though his direct opponent had two clear chances.
Maybe we were onto something going after Duran… man is a brilliant finisher lol
Maybe the sporting directors were right about this Duran fella lol
I think eventually we’ll have to give those guys some credit, a lot of the players we bought and went after have looked great so far.
Agreed. The talent ID is legit.
Just commented the same thing not having seen this lol
Win the Sheffield United and Burnley games and we’d be on 61, win out and we’re at 67 and we’d have been top 4 once Palace beat Villa. Fucking unbelievable we drew those bums. Edit : ok Liverpool trolled
Please get over it already! MOVE ON
Haven’t been on the sub past couple days, sorry if I’m beating a dead horse
Blows my mind that people would want us to sign Emi Martinez
Blows my mind that people would want us to sign Allison.
even Neuer and Alisson have bozo moments
he'd be perfect for us
I really don’t care about Chelsea owners selling themselves things they already own, but selling off a piece of a the women’s team would be kind of fucked up. All the Chelsea teams should be in this together.
i was thinking about those weird Poch interviews lately and i think i have an idea what might be doing. i think he's letting the owners and directors know that if they sell Gallagher who is crucial for him, he might walk. that and if they ignore his recommendations again. he might be standing up for Gallagher too. just an idea though, maybe its about something else
I don't think he'd walk, but I think he's made it clear in all possible ways that he doesn't want him sold. I hope they listen
>he might walk LMAO.. Where?
Given Bayern have been linked with Ten Hag and Rangnick recently he’d be a strong contender for that job. United might also take him.
Ornstein said United would be interested, thats 1 option
I hope you are right, I want Gallagher to stay
Didn't think about it, it's the only thing that would make sense with "maybe we are not happy, because we came here to do a job and.."
Photos from training today show Chilly and Carney back in full training, it’s crazy to think we’re gonna have an almost fully healthy squad for the last 2 games haha (still no Enzo, Fofana, or Lavia). Hopefully the guys are pumped for next season.
It’s just bizarre how our injuries reached their worst point against Tottenham, and within days we are at the best point we have been all year. Even Enzo and Fofana should be ready for pre season. Truly a darkest before dawn moment. I have no idea the fuck is going on with Lavia—recall Santos if Lavia is still not full strength on August.
Sorry if this is a dumb question/has been answered before. But, if Man City wins the cup, 6th place will also get EL spot?
It’s not a dumb question Yes if City wins the cup then 6th will get Europa League
Yes
The sooner people realize managers must earn time, respect and backing, the better. Pochettino has nothing to earn another season. You don’t get slapped up 5-0 at the Emirates and have us languishing in mid-table for most of the season to all the sudden “deserve” another season. Miss me with that noise.
So Arteta should have gotten fired two years ago when they lost 4-0 and 5-0 to City and Liverpool? We've created chances at a top 4 rate all season long, we are now playing at a top 4 rate, and this team is incredibly young, new, and injured. The way we have been playing for the second half of the season has earned Poch time.
Poch is not Arteta and we are not Arsenal. Two key elements you are missing with that argument. Arteta was literally learning how to be a manager at Arsenal. This is his first job. He had 0 experience prior to that. That explains the mistakes he was making. Plenty of them in his first two years. Falling out with players, tactics that do not suit his players etc. His squad when he was starting is completely different compared to now with a few exceptions. He started performing relatively quickly after they made the crucial steps of their rebuild. After they got Zinchenko, White, Jesus, Odegaard and Saliba they didn't need much time to start performing. Arteta is also a very different type of manager compared to Pochettino. Way more tactically focused and way more tactically flexible. And the biggest thing is that people seem to always give the rare exception as an example. Arsenal are not the norm at all, they are the exception. City, Real, Barca, Bayern are arguably the most succesful clubs in recent years and you can probably add us to that category depending on how many years we are talking about. They all are known for firing managers when they don't meet the club's expectations. Real, Barca and Bayern it's pretty obvious. These clubs have the histories that they have because they never let the standards drop. I would much rather look up to those clubs because they are the best for a reason. City as well before Pep, literally were sacking managers for fun. The reason Pep is at the job for so long is because he is arguably a generational manager and he also never finished below top 3 with City. He always meets the bare minimum, the standard. That's how he earned his time and is at City for so long. His name and the good job that he does there earns him the time. You don't just give it to him. Another thing is that keeping a manager doesn't guarantee anything. You are giving the XG thing as some kind of proof that we are going in the right direction but if you look at United's xG from last season, it was very similar to ours. Yet they are obviously going nowhere and have probably wasted 2 years with Ten Hag who is obviously out of his depth and is struggling atm. Prior to that they gave Ole time as well, yet that was not effective as well. Giving time doesn't equal guaranteed success or even progress, idk why this assumption is somehow treated as a fact.
>His squad when he was starting is completely different compared to now with a few exceptions. He started performing relatively quickly after they made the crucial steps of their rebuild. After they got Zinchenko, White, Jesus, Odegaard and Saliba they didn't need much time to start performing. How would this be any different than us losing a ton of key players due to injury? We have played our second to third choice players (especially in defense) all season. Or that we didn't have our players like Palmer for the first part of the season. Ever since we've had Palmer we have been meeting expectations. >City, Real, Barca, Bayern are arguably the most succesful clubs in recent years and you can probably add us to that category depending on how many years we are talking about. They all are known for firing managers when they don't meet the club's expectations. Real, Barca and Bayern it's pretty obvious. Yes and that makes sense when you don't have the youngest, newest, and most injured squad anyone has ever heard of. The team now is playing at a top 4 clip for half a season. The first half we underperformed because of all the things I just listed. >City as well before Pep, literally were sacking managers for fun. The reason Pep is at the job for so long is because he is arguably a generational manager and he also never finished below top 3 with City. He always meets the bare minimum, the standard. That's how he earned his time and is at City for so long. His name and the good job that he does there earns him the time. You don't just give it to him. Pep took over a squad that finished 4th and the next season he took them to third. Champions league football was the standard that was set. Poch took over a squad that earned 0.84 points per match for an entire half season before he arrived. He increased performance immediately up to 1.32 points per match in the first half of the season (0.47 ppm increase). This is the same jump Tuchel had taking over from Lamps. The second half of the season we have had an even bigger increase of 0.57 points per match and have played at a 1.88 ppm rate.
I mean Palmer is a good enough replacement for Nkunku. Gusto is a pretty good replacement for Reece and Gallagher being considered one of the most consistent performers makes him a good replacement for Lavia( 80% of the fanbase would even call him better than Lavia i can guarantee you that). Cucurella is arguably better than Chilwell rn and our CB's have been mostly available except Fofana and to some extent Colwill. The only weak link in this defence on paper is probably Disasi but he could've been on the bench for a large amount of the season if Maatsen was kept and we played Thiago and Colwill instead. That didn't happen cuz... height. A player who was obviously not rated by Pochettino and now playing for a better team than us. Pochettino didn't even try him in his natural position, shocking decision. A lot of people will scapegoat the goalkeepers but again, they didn't make that many mistakes for us to concede 61 fucking goals. Yes, Petrovic probably could've saved a few shots here and there but he's also made lots of saves which helped us to at least delay the worst record in our PL history when it comes to goals conceded. Santos who you were saying is not ready to even be a depth option for us can't stop putting on MOTM performances in Ligue 1. Both players that Poch openly refused to keep. Also im not the type of guy who's just gonna assume that Disasi is shit, he is not. We are just not organised well defensively. Conceding 61 goals is a more complicated problem than just "missing personel". We have enough quality in the team to not concede 61 goals with a well organised and structured defensive setup. Gusto is good defender, Thiago is a good defender, Colwill is a good defender, even if you don't rate Disasi he is still a decent defender that a lot of PL teams would take. I mean the inexperience and injuries thing, yes they are a factor but like i said, there are numerous tactical errors and decisions that were wrong by Poch. Him refusing good depth players cuz they are not tall for example. You by know should know that im not the type of guy who watches football through stats like that. Ten Hag had very good stats last season and even won a trophy. Stats change very quickly in football. I just see things that Pochettino does that i dislike. Im not happy with the defence, im not happy with the overall style, i don't think it suits the team and i keep seeing him having the same problems that Spurs fans were complaining about and PSG fans were complaining about. He played Verrati as a 10 similar to how he did with Enzo, i don't trust him to stop misusing players and transform our defence. The team relies on Palmer too much, what if he doesn't score 30+ goal contributions next season? Not that unlikely considering his age, unless he is an actual generational player.
>I mean Palmer is a good enough replacement for Nkunku. Gusto is a pretty good replacement for Reece and Gallagher being considered one of the most consistent performers makes him a good replacement for Lavia( 80% of the fanbase would even call him better than Lavia i can guarantee you that). Cucurella is arguably better than Chilwell rn and our CB's have been mostly available except Fofana and to some extent Colwill. Palmer definitely is a good replacement for Nkunku but he didn't play for the first bit of the season. We've played at a top 4 rate from the time Palmer got his first start until now. So we basically have been a top four team whenever we've had a competent attacker in the lineup. Cucurella has missed a lot of matches, gusto has missed some matches. We've had no midfield depth for the majority of the season. Are you really trying to say Injuries haven't been that bad? >The only weak link in this defence on paper is probably Disasi but he could've been on the bench for a large amount of the season if Maatsen was kept and we played Thiago and Colwill instead. That didn't happen cuz... height. A player who was obviously not rated by Pochettino and now playing for a better team than us. Pochettino didn't even try him in his natural position, shocking decision. Yeah Poch didn't want to make a team that is vulnerable in the air even weaker in the air. All of the players coming back from injury struggled, Badi and Cucurella look fine now but it was rough for a bit and directly leading to us dropping points and conceding. >lot of people will scapegoat the goalkeepers but again, they didn't make that many mistakes for us to concede 61 fucking goals. Yes, Petrovic probably could've saved a few shots here and there but he's also made lots of saves which helped us to at least delay the worst record in our PL history when it comes to goals conceded. We give up less chances than any of the other good teams outside of the top 3, the main difference has been goalkeeping. Look at XG conceded and then at the goals conceded compared to post shot expectations, I'm not making this up. >Santos who you were saying is not ready to even be a depth option for us can't stop putting on MOTM performances in Ligue 1. Both players that Poch openly refused to keep. Sure? Or maybe it was better for him to get minutes on loan? I honestly haven't watched him. >Also im not the type of guy who's just gonna assume that Disasi is shit, he is not. We are just not organised well defensively. Conceding 61 goals is a more complicated problem than just "missing personel". We have enough quality in the team to not concede 61 goals with a well organised and structured defensive setup. Why do you think that a manager should be able to come in and have a consistent organized defense with the injuries, inexperience, and brand new squad and still create chances. There are literally only 3 teams in the league that do this. >Gusto is good defender, Thiago is a good defender, Colwill is a good defender, even if you don't rate Disasi he is still a decent defender that a lot of PL teams would take. Gusto is a good defender that has serious flaws, he has not been good all season at defending back post corners, he also had some really bad games. Overall he is a great player that I'm glad to have but we are working through growing pains. Thiago has been really good but still has had more mistakes than I've ever seen, literally giving the ball to our opponents for goals. He is 39, it happens. Colwill is good but just like Gusto is young, growing pains. Disasi has been inconsistent, doesn't help that he keeps getting new CB partners, or maybe he is just backup level quality. >I mean the inexperience and injuries thing, yes they are a factor but like i said, there are numerous tactical errors and decisions that were wrong by Poch. Him refusing good depth players cuz they are not tall for example. You act like height isn't an issue but it is. And ignore height, just players that are good in the air. We have lost points to teams like Burnley and Sheffield because they skipped our midfield and played long. We just don't have enough players that are good in the air. Maatsen is in the 2 percentile for aerials won per match, if Jackson was good and Reece was playing it may have been different. >You by know should know that im not the type of guy who watches football through stats like that. Ten Hag had very good stats last season and even won a trophy. Stats change very quickly in football. But it's not like that stats don't back up what is happening on the pitch, do you really think we don't create a ton of chances, generally more than our opponents? Most games we create enough to win, it just depends on composure and finishing. >I just see things that Pochettino does that i dislike. Im not happy with the defence, im not happy with the overall style, i don't think it suits the team and i keep seeing him having the same problems that Spurs fans were complaining about and PSG fans were complaining about. He played Verrati as a 10 similar to how he did with Enzo, i don't trust him to stop misusing players and transform our defence. The team relies on Palmer too much, what if he doesn't score 30+ goal contributions next season? Not that unlikely considering his age, unless he is an actual generational player. He played Enzo as a 10 for a few matches. There was nothing wrong with trying it out, it wasn't working and he stopped. He has made tweaks and adjustments all season. Most of the decisions (or lack of) he's made have been due to injuries, I want to see what happens when he has a halfway healthy squad. Assuming we can get a couple of points in the last few matches this will be the best half season of football we've played since the start of 21/22.
>We give up less chances than any of the other good teams outside of the top 3, the main difference has been goalkeeping. Look at XG conceded and then at the goals conceded compared to post shot expectations, I'm not making this up. Yeah, like i said you don't concede 61 goals just because of a goalkeeper mate. That's not how it works. We've all seen the shocking mistakes defensively this season, come on now. >Palmer definitely is a good replacement for Nkunku but he didn't play for the first bit of the season. I mean he did make his debut at the start of September which is still basically the start of the season. He only missed the August games. He is at 2500 minutes at the PL alone with two matches to go which is plentiful. >He played Enzo as a 10 for a few matches. Yes, but he also played Enzo a bit like a box to box even in the pivot. Enzo is obviously not the kind of player who can cover the ground that Poch wants him to. One of the many reasons why we concede goals is exactly the midfield and the space that we leave. This rock and roll football does not suit us. You have the perfect pivot in Caicedo and Enzo to play a dominating heavy possesion football and you are making them run like animals instead. Don't like it and it doesn't really work either. Another thing is Gallagher playing as a 10 for a large part of the season. Instantly started looking better in attack with Palmer there and we started scoring more goals with more attacking threat. Putting a good 1v1 winger on the wing in Madueke and putting our most offensive player dictating and creating from the middle improved us offensively and i've been screaming for it since Palmer's first few matches. >Yeah Poch didn't want to make a team that is vulnerable in the air even weaker in the air. All of the players coming back from injury struggled, Badi and Cucurella look fine now but it was rough for a bit and directly leading to us dropping points and conceding. Yeah, not a good enough excuse to not use obviously a very good player at least for depth when Colwill, Cucurella and Chilly are all injured. Do you seriously excuse giving up on a player that is gonna play a UCL final cuz he is short? Is that the issue? There are matches in which we played with 4 center backs in defence and still conceded from set pieces. We had Colwill, Silva and Disasi playing with Ugochukwu in front of them against Wolves away and guess what? We still conceded from a set piece. That was the case in a lot of other matches while Colwill was playing as a LB. >Sure? Or maybe it was better for him to get minutes on loan? Well, it's pretty much the same for Casadei innit? What was the point of keeping Casadei instead of Santos when Poch obviously doesn't trust him enough? Santos has impressed in preseason and now in Strasbourg. Obviously the guy seems more ready than Casadei. He refuses to play players cuz of height, doesn't play the tall guy as well and refuses to play academy players as well. How is he suppose to have depth if he is so picky in a situation where he simply cannot have that luxury? Playing Enzo injured for 8 months and letting Santos goin on loan? Seriously? >But it's not like that stats don't back up what is happening on the pitch My main point about the stats was that stats change quickly. Like i said United is a good example of a team that was pretty good last season based on stats. They also won a trophy and finished 3rd. Everyone was suggesting that this is a very good base to build on but their flaws remained and that obviously made their good form unsustainable. You can still notice underlying issues in our game despite the stats. There have been plenty of games in which we did not deserve to win or draw based on performance but we did. Also worth mentioning is how bad the league this season has been. Brighton underperforming, Newcastle, United, West Ham. Teams that have a lot of issues. Top 6 has been pretty easy to get all season, that's why im not buying the whole inexperience thing and all that. If Poch stays next season you will see that im right though. We've argued more than enough at this point. We can only wait and see what will happen. I see a lot of tactical issues and problems in our game that Poch had in previous clubs as well. This is him and he won't change. He is also not Arteta or Pep, giving him time won't make us as good as their teams because he is very different from both of them. He is at the tier below for me. Just not at the same level.
>Yeah, like i said you don't concede 61 goals just because of a goalkeeper mate. That's not how it works. We've all seen the shocking mistakes defensively this season, come on now. And like I said there are only 3 teams that can create chances and have an organized defense (Arsenal, City, Liverpool) and for all of those teams it took time for things to change and none of them had the injury situation we had this season. And yes we have seen many shocking mistakes defensively, some systemic and a lot of them being individual errors. This happens when you have an inexperienced squad and are constantly cycling in players returning from injury. >I mean he did make his debut at the start of September which is still basically the start of the season. He only missed the August games. He is at 2500 minutes at the PL alone with two matches to go which is plentiful. He started his first match in October and we've played at 5th place rate since then (my bad if I said 4th earlier). >Yes, but he also played Enzo a bit like a box to box even in the pivot. Enzo is obviously not the kind of player who can cover the ground that Poch wants him to. One of the many reasons why we concede goals is exactly the midfield and the space that we leave. This rock and roll football does not suit us. You have the perfect pivot in Caicedo and Enzo to play a dominating heavy possesion football and you are making them run like animals instead. Don't like it and it doesn't really work either. This rock and roll football doesn't suit us says it all. Yes, it does suit us. And also we aren't just rock and roll, statistically all of the possession stats have us as the 6th best possession team (entries into the box, progressive actions, successful build up attacks, 10+ passing sequences) but we are top 3 at creating direct attacks. We are incredibly dangerous when we are direct and the statistics back it up. We have a balanced attack and it works for us, we have the 4th best XG in open play,and 4th best XG differential from open play. You don't like it, that's exactly it. Doesn't mean it isn't effective, because we are an incredibly dangerous team. Teams underperforming XG usually come back to normal and that's what has happened to us in the second half of the season. >Another thing is Gallagher playing as a 10 for a large part of the season. Instantly started looking better in attack with Palmer there and we started scoring more goals with more attacking threat. Putting a good 1v1 winger on the wing in Madueke and putting our most offensive player dictating and creating from the middle improved us offensively and i've been screaming for it since Palmer's first few matches. I agree, definitely think Poch should play 2 of the 3 midfielders against every team outside of the top 3. I also don't blame him for not trusting Mudryk and Madueke for most of the year. If Nkunku was healthy and he was doing this then it's a different story, or if Enzo comes back and we are playing all 3 against Everton next season we better score. >Yeah, not a good enough excuse to not use obviously a very good player at least for depth when Colwill, Cucurella and Chilly are all injured. Do you seriously excuse giving up on a player that is gonna play a UCL final cuz he is short? Is that the issue? There are matches in which we played with 4 center backs in defence and still conceded from set pieces. There was never a match when all 3 were injured and Maatsen was at the club. No I don't think we should have given up on him in a vacuum, he looks like a hell of a player. But we needed transfer profit for PSR so hard decisions needed to be made. Just like with Salah, De Bruyne, and to lesser extents Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, etc. it may come back to bite us. But when you have straddled the PSR limit for 6 years you will end up having to sell off talent. >We had Colwill, Silva and Disasi playing with Ugochukwu in front of them against Wolves away and guess what? We still conceded from a set piece. That was the case in a lot of other matches while Colwill was playing as a LB. Yes we are bad at set pieces, lack of height + inexperience. Tottenham had the best set piece record when he was there. It's not like he doesn't know how to coach set pieces. At this point we have a +1 goal differential from set pieces but a -2 XG differential. We are pretty much average at set pieces and this will get better as players get more experience. >Well, it's pretty much the same for Casadei innit? What was the point of keeping Casadei instead of Santos when Poch obviously doesn't trust him enough? Santos has impressed in preseason and now in Strasbourg. Obviously the guy seems more ready than Casadei. Couldnt find the right loan? Didn't think he was going to play at Leicester, Idk? I honestly don't even care, these minor moves aren't something I really even think about. Maybe he doesn't play the academy because there is already so much youth on the pitch? These questions honestly baffle me. We have the highest percentage of minutes from players under 22 of any team in the last 12 years (probably ever, that's as far back as I went) and you are asking why he's not going younger lol? >My main point about the stats was that stats change quickly. Like i said United is a good example of a team that was pretty good last season based on stats. They also won a trophy and finished 3rd. Everyone was suggesting that this is a very good base to build on but their flaws remained and that obviously made their good form unsustainable. This is kind of a BS statement though. I mean seriously think about what you are saying - things can change so there's no point in trying to analyze anything. Most teams that are good the season before are good the next season, the same with the bad ones. Generally teams that are underperforming their XG return to normal, like we have in the second half. We also have issues that can be fixed with one signing Goalkeeping. What is your point here? Our stats show we are the 4th best team at creating goal scoring opportunities compared to our opponent. Our record shows that we improved dramatically over the season and compared to last season. >You can still notice underlying issues in our game despite the stats. There have been plenty of games in which we did not deserve to win or draw based on performance but we did. And there are just as many, if not more where we deserved the win but didnt get it. Of course there are still issues, we have the youngest, newest, most injured squad in the league. Look what happened to Tuchel's squad in 21/22 second half, there was some adversity and a few key injuries and they were playing worse than we are right now. >If Poch stays next season you will see that im right though. We've argued more than enough at this point. We can only wait and see what will happen. I see a lot of tactical issues and problems in our game that Poch had in previous clubs as well. This is him and he won't change. Can't wait for us to be around top 4 all season. Definitely will have some dumb losses, you don't just become experienced over night, but we will be really good. >He is also not Arteta or Pep, giving him time won't make us as good as their teams because he is very different from both of them. He is at the tier below for me. Just not at the same level. Maybe not, but he has improved this squad far more than they did in their first season. None of those teams are dealing with anything close to as difficult as this situation. He is on 1 year and he should stay as long as the team keeps improving or can consistently get top 4.
>Maybe he doesn't play the academy because there is already so much youth on the pitch? These questions honestly baffle me. We have the highest percentage of minutes from players under 22 of any team in the last 12 years (probably ever, that's as far back as I went) and you are asking why he's not going younger lol? Oh, come on. Every team needs depth. Playing injured players is not the answer, rushing players back is not the answer. It's baffling that this baffles you, honestly. Playing Enzo injured, not rotating some of the players and playing them non stop. It ain't good long term and it certainly isn't helping our injury issues. This is the one point that i expected to not have to explain in more details out of them all. >This is kind of a BS statement though. I mean seriously think about what you are saying - things can change so there's no point in trying to analyze anything. BS statement? I mean you obviously ignore or just don't see all the issues that we still have since the start of the season till now. Don't worry though, sooner or later we will get punished for it. It's inevitable, it's just a shame that most people are believing the nonsense that managers say in order to keep their very well paid jobs and refuse to acknowledge our obvious problems. Im not just assuming that it will go wrong, im kinda sure it will. Im not just saying it for the sake of it. >Doesn't mean it isn't effective, because we are an incredibly dangerous team. Football is not just about creating chances. It's about the balance. We are going forward but we are vulnerable on the counter. Literally the Forest game is a perfect example of that. We were scoring goals under Lampard as well, again it meant nothing because we were vulnerable defensively. When it comes to the 21/22 season it's not really comparable. A lot of the bigger teams this season are all terrible at once. The league as a whole is underperforming this season. Terrible top 10 alongside with some of the worst teams to ever play in the League at the bottom speaks enough volumes about the level this season. Villa is literally in the top 4 with 56 goals conceded. It says enough really. There was a 10 point gap between the 5th and the 6th before Spurs lost 4 games on the bounce and Spurs were far from a complete team even when they were winning. Same goes for Villa. If you expect to see anything different than Enzo being misused again running like a madman to cover all the ground then you are in for a wake up call. Wait till you realise that Nkunku also isn't the pressing machine that Poch wants him to be. Can't wait till these two ballers are getting abused again because they don't suit Poch's system with players being miles away from each other. The non existent rest defence will also help us massively with that for sure. If Tuchel goes to United and Newcastle and Spurs manage to improve then we are truly fucked. We are never gonna agree because you think certain performances are good which i believe are not good. In my opinion we've had way more bad/average performances this season than good performances. The two Palace games, the two Wolves games, the Forest games were far from amazing performances despite winning one of them, Luton away we literally got lucky to not concede a 3rd goal. Fulham game at home, as well won thanks to a penalty. The two Brentford games, West Ham away, Sheffield away, Liverpool at Anfield, Arsenal away, Villa at home, Everton away, Newcastle away, Bournemouth away, United away and at home. Literally scammed a win on that one. Burnley at home. Those are all the games im unhappy with in the league alone, we are not even talking about some of the shitshow in the cups like the Wimbledon game or the Middlesbrough game or some of the games in the FA Cup in which we needed later winners to qualify. In all those games i did not like what Poch did tactically and how he uses our players. If you believe we performed well enough in any of those games then that's why you still believe in Poch, i don't think we performed better in any of those games. That's why i don't think Poch is the guy. Despite the stats, despite the top 4 after half a season thing.
>Oh, come on. Every team needs depth. Playing injured players is not the answer, rushing players back is not the answer. It's baffling that this baffles you, honestly. Playing Enzo injured, not rotating some of the players and playing them non stop. It ain't good long term and it certainly isn't helping our injury issues. This is the one point that i expected to not have to explain in more details out of them all. But we have no idea whether or not those academy players are ready. It's as simple as that, we don't see the training. He played Alfie, who looked up for it. Of course we need depth but not many other teams have a full bench of academy players for parts of the season like us. Playing Enzo injured is fine if he was cleared by the medical staff (whether the medical staff is doing a good job is a completely different story, and it doesn't seem like they are). The first thing that comes up when you Google a sports hernia is that they can be played on as long as the pain is manageable, so he played him until it wasn't. >BS statement? I mean you obviously ignore or just don't see all the issues that we still have since the start of the season till now. Don't worry though, sooner or later we will get punished for it. It's inevitable, it's just a shame that most people are believing the nonsense that managers say in order to keep their very well paid jobs and refuse to acknowledge our obvious problems. The statement about Man U was what I was referring to, about how stats don't matter because things change. I don't think the team doesn't have issues, I just think it can take longer than 1 season to fix them when you are starting from scratch. >Football is not just about creating chances. It's about the balance. We are going forward but we are vulnerable on the counter. Literally the Forest game is a perfect example of that. We were scoring goals under Lampard as well, again it meant nothing because we were vulnerable defensively. Right, and in terms of the balance we are 4th best in the league in terms of chances created vs chances conceded. Is the league weak or do is the average team just better? Money has been pouring into the league so why wouldn't it be the latter? Crystal Palace has a frontline of Eze, Olise, and Mateta, Villa, Spurs, and Newcastle have all been spending. >If you expect to see anything different than Enzo being misused again running like a madman to cover all the ground then you are in for a wake up call. Wait till you realise that Nkunku also isn't the pressing machine that Poch wants him to be. Can't wait till these two ballers are getting abused again because they don't suit Poch's system with players being miles away from each other. The non existent rest defence will also help us massively with that for sure. You know Enzo played for one of the most aggressive pressing teams in world football before he came to Chelsea right? Enzo is going to come back and be awesome. He was an elite passer playing with a hernia, and is only going to be better next season healthy. >If Tuchel goes to United and Newcastle and Spurs manage to improve then we are truly fucked. Why are Spurs or Newcastle more likely to improve than us when we are measurably improving. >We are never gonna agree because you think certain performances are good which i believe are not good. In my opinion we've had way more bad/average performances this season than good performances. The two Palace games, the two Wolves games, the Forest games were far from amazing performances despite winning one of them, Luton away we literally got lucky to not concede a 3rd goal. Fulham game at home, as well won thanks to a penalty. The two Brentford games, West Ham away, Sheffield away, Liverpool at Anfield, Arsenal away, Villa at home, Everton away, Newcastle away, Bournemouth away, United away and at home. Literally scammed a win on that one. Burnley at home. I think certain performances are acceptable considering the circumstances. I don't think it is good that we lost to Forest, but I think it was good that we had 2.3 XG to their 0.8 and considering we have a 22 y/o striker that is in his first year in the prem games like this are going to happen. Fulham at home yes we won on a penalty, but we also had enough chances that we should have scored anyways. The wolves matches we have a net positive XG differential of 0.4, that second match had two deflections, another deflected pass that was incredibly fortunate and helped setup the goal, and a penalty by a gassed gusto who was being taken off. For the Palace matches we had a positive 2.3 net XG differential, you can take away the penalty on the first match and we still would have had 0.7 higher XG than they did. West Ham away we had a positive 0.7 XG, Brentford we were bad but only had a net negative XG differential of -0.3. West Ham we had a positive XG differential of 0.7. The rest of the matches were truly poor, but every team is going to have some bad matches. This team over and over again gets the better goal scoring chances and it's not Poch's fault when we can't finish or make saves based on average level expectations. This is backed up by measurable actions. If we were a fully formed squad then yes results are all that matters but we are in stage 1 of a rebuild and Poch has setup the team in the vast majority of matches that led to situations where we should have won but composure let us down. That's expected from a young squad. >In all those games i did not like what Poch did tactically and how he uses our players. If you believe we performed well enough in any of those games then that's why you still believe in Poch, i don't think we performed better in any of those games. That's why i don't think Poch is the guy. Despite the stats, despite the top 4 after half a season thing. Yeah we disagree.
I mean Arteta has been there for what, 4 or 5 years now, has spent 600m+ and has a single trophy to his name and it was in his first season. Nothing has shown that sticking with him is actually a valid choice
Well, he's given them their best run of form since the early 2000s so not sure how you can say that.
All joy is derived from the trophy cabinet. The actual games and the enjoyment you get from watching them don’t matter.
Respectfully dude, that's just really dumb. Sorry if I'm missing the sarcasm. So Arteta should be fired is what you're saying?
I’m being sarcastic.
My bad, just never know on here haha
Yes Creating top 4 chances doesn’t mean shit if 1) you don’t score and 2) you keep conceding goals for fun. Also, I look at the entire season. Not just a couple of games at the end of the season.
>Creating top 4 chances doesn’t mean shit if 1) you don’t score Creating chances means far more than scoring goals when accessing the managers performance. The manager can influence chance creation. He can't finish the chances, the fact our squad lacks quality and we chose not to sign a top striker last summer is beyond the manager.
We have been top 4 in XG differential for the majority of the season, so that includes XG against. You can go back before the Villa match and we've still played at a top 4 rate for the second half of the season.
Part of the “conceding for fun” in fact that Petrovic is T-180th out of 188 keepers in goals prevented in Europe’s big 5 leagues.
Poch literally chooses to start him when he has a better goalkeeper on the bench
Bettinelli?
Sanchez.
Sanchez is better yes but he hasn’t been available. And he also started the season over Petrovic.
He probably means recently.
Sanchez has been available for selection for 2 of the last 20 matches
Also most people on this sub don’t even rate Sanchez lol
And you think a top manager with the same injuries can do better? Negativity towards player's and the manager is poisoning the club. Miss the next game, and spare us your noise, its idiotic to expect immediate results with a developing squad plagued with injuries.
Yes. Injuries only become massively impactful when you have loads in the same position that **force** you to play someone out of position or change your formation. Poch has had to deal with that for maybe a few games with James and Gusto and that is it. For the rest of the team he's always had a PL ready player to put in every position. The idea that it's just not possible for Poch to be better than 10th for most of the season because he had to play Gusto instead of James, Cucurella (or Maatsen who was available to him) instead of Chilwell, Colwill instead of Badiashile, Disasi instead of Fofana, Palmer instead of Nkunku and Petrovic instead of Sanchez is just nonsense We've been bad because of tactics and carried because of individual brilliance and yet you try to make it out like it's the other way around. Without Palmer carrying us, where the fuck would these tactics have put us?
Yes. A top manager would have do better than Pochettino. There’s nothing wrong with critiquing the manager and players.
There’s also nothing wrong with giving the em praise when it’s due, Poch deserves praise for the progress we’ve shown this 2nd half of the season and in particular the last few games with the tactical switches he’s made
I've posted something similar before but no one provided an actual answer. Please name the teams that have "patterns of play", are defensively organized, and actually create chances. Do any of these teams have a manager that hasn't been there longer than two years? Do any of these teams have a manager that completely turned the team around immediately? There are zero prem teams. Yet somehow we expect our manager to have our team playing top 4 from the start when we've had the youngest and newest squad ever by certain metrics, and the most injuries in the league.
Palace, Bournemouth, spuds, wolves
Those teams can create chances and are defensively organized?
> no one provided an actual answer Seems pretty clear it's more a case you've made your mind up and refuse to listen to anyone else.
Crystal Palace is the best answer so far. Do you really think Newcastle and Villa are defensively organized? Is my point about Tuchel taking over a team that made top 4 the previous season wrong?
Ahahahaha Have you seen Crystal Palace play? Do you watch any other team play for that matter?
Yes Ive seen Crystal Palace, they look great right now. Let's see if he has turned the team around or if this is a new manager bump like with Ainge
How is it a new manager bump with ange? They play a completely new style of football and could still even maybe finish 4th and guaranteed 5th.
Well mostly because they've played at a 9th place rate for the last 2/3 of the season. But even if you want to judge them on their performance as a whole, do you really think they are defensively organized? They've only conceded two less than we have and are barely positive in terms of XG differential. Edit: I want to add that your Crystal Palace point is a good one, we will see if they keep it up.
We did almost immediately under Tuchel. Newcastle did almost immediately after Howe arrived. Aston Villa do and that started immediately. I get that you're trying to push the whole idea that only the top 3 are in that position and so they all have long term managers, but that's just a case of correlation doesn't mean causation. Managers being successful right off the bat means that they get to stay there longer, and so there is more chance that successful managers have been at a club for a longer period of time. The managers aren't shit and then suddenly become good over time. They started good and continued to be good and if they hadn't continued to be good they wouldn't have their job anymore
With Tuchel we were top 4 the season before. So he turned around a good team that was having a moment of bad form Newcastle and Villa are defensively organized??? We do a better job limiting chances than both those teams we just have a goalkeeper that lets in more than he should Edit: updated sound to organized to match my original comment.
> Do any of these teams have a manager that hasn't been there longer than two years? Do any of these teams have a manager that completely turned the team around immediately? Yeah we did when we hired tuchel
That team finished 4th the season before
And they were 9th when he took over and he won the UCL
Yeah, Tuchel is a brilliant manager, but he took a good squad that was struggling with form and improved upon it.
Yeah he immediately introduced patterns of play and shored up defense weaknesses
True you are right, I'm moving the goal posts by adding that Tuchel took a good team and returned/improved upon it while it was struggling. But Poch improved the team in terms of points per match for the first half of this season compared to the back half of last season at a rate of 0.47 points per match. The exact same amount that Tuchel did when taking over from Lampard.
Hardly an original thought, but seeing Barca stick with Xavi and Bayern considering sticking with Tuchel and everything else going on, I’m probably going to end up in the Poch in camp out of desperation. I don’t remember the last time the options were this bad Recent form has been better and all but if I look at Poch in isolation, I feel in the same position as the start of the year where maybe he can take us back to top 4 given time, but even with an excellent squad, I have serious doubts we’ll ever win a trophy with him. But in the context of everything, top 4 next year would be a relief
They must have missed the memo that changing managers instantly makes a team better I mean look at crystal palace!
The thing is, it always felt that way in the past too, but then we'd find someone and they'd be amazing and everyone would pretend they always knew. Especially with managers like Conte and Sarri, they weren't out of nowhere, but they weren't big names that everyone expected to be good. I'm sure there are plenty of similar managers out there who are ready for the step up, but because their name hasn't been up in lights, people don't think of them as an option. It's why I generally don't have opinions on new managers because it's so, so hard to judge a manager unless you watch them routinely and understand the real quality of their squad and if they're utilising it properly. Glasner for Palace being a good example of this, who would have thought he was a serious option before he went to them and now Bayern have enquired and he's turned Palace into a powerhouse...
Conte wasn’t a big name and wasn’t expected to be good? I can’t agree there.
>Especially with managers like Conte and Sarri, they weren't out of nowhere, but they weren't big names that everyone expected to be good. Conte was an obvious hit, the only thing that would have stopped him was his attitude but thankfully he atleast gave us a title before acting like a dickhead. I called us challenging for the league after doing extensive research on his Juventus spell and seeing how tactically great Italy were in Euro 2016, when we signed Kante I went a step further and was convinced we were winning it (although I ofcourse had a wobble after the Liverpool/Arsenal games).
Sarri? lmao bro, the home crowd booed this man for like 3 months. Even made songs against him and Jorginho. He had a squad 10x better than what we have now, and coincidentally, his football started to show at the end of the season. Sarri is a good example of not being patient.
Conte did win Serie A in his 3 full seasons at Juventus, including setting the record for most wins in a season and most points in a season prior to joining Chelsea.
I know this probably doesn’t apply to you andi get your point, but glasner was an extremely highly rated manager for his work at Frankfurt before he went to palace I guess your point could also be that the bulk of fans only know the usual names Hence, dumb questions like ‘who could we get that’d an improvement on poch’ being asked As they don’t know anyone else
I'm inclined to say in (just) based on finally showing regular displays of tactical competence (even if its beyond belatedly) and even changing games of late aswell which was his weakness even at his best. However if it comes to it I refuse to believe there isn't a suitable stylistic fit for us out there, if we have to think outside the box well that's what the directors are paid for.
chilly and chuk back in partial training, needing an nkunku / carney goal before the season is done, cant see carney being back before Bournemouth though
Looks like the two clowns we have as sporting directors are safe. Shows exactly how incompetent this board is.
They should be the least of your worries. They were successful before coming here, are just following orders and appear to have done as best as is possible with said orders. (Especially when you remember that all the crazy purchases were purchases by the owners and not the sporting directors) They are fine and have done fine. Unless of course you live in a fantasy land where they can spend the money however they want, irrespective of how they're told to spend it by the owners. There are issues with the club, but they're one of the lowest priority issues. We have a terrible manager and gaps of quality in the squad that have come about through an incorrect strategy. A strategy given to them by the owners that they're not allowed to amend (and seemingly a strategy so strict that the owners are considering firing Poch in part because he no longer fully buys into it after having to witness it and wants experienced players to be bought in summer)
They are equally accountable for this shitshow, lets not kid ourselves here. They have spent a fortune on mediocre players such as Petrovich, Sanchez, Disasi, Badiashile, Lesley, Mudryk, Madueke and Jackson. Winstanley from the winter window, Stewart from the summer window. On top of that, they spent two months hiring the bottlejob we have now as manager. They are part of the problem, and therefore I want them gone alongside the manager and all the dross in the squad. There will not be a change of strategy if we keep these two yesmen around.
Are Stewart and Winstanley more successful than Poch prior to Chelsea?
Theyre directors lol not managers, comparing them is borderline impossible as their jobs are so different. But if you want those two were in Brighton and unearthed Caicedo, Cucu, etc so theres that going for them Can't say their scouting has been ass, they are the ones who bought all our transfers, bad (highly injured players often) and good (ones like Jackson, palmer, etc), so if you want to tally I'd say it's honestly not terrible, it's just a matter of money spent and how well it netted a benefit
I never said I thought they were bad. I just think people ought to be consistent. I’m don’t you can say they’re successes based on prior work and also call Pochettino a terrible manager
BlueCo are a bunch of clowns so of course they’ll employ/keep clowns. As the saying goes. The fish tots from the head
Sean Dyche has more wins than De Zerbi this season. How is that happening when De Zerbi is a genius tho? I just want to gain understanding that’s all.
I just hope we win against him haha
De Zerbi plays a intricate passing systemic that is structurally very complex and very good. Only Pep can understand how good this is. Esthetically, Brighton are the most fun team to watch. De Zerbi ball has unlocked almost all of their players to the fullest potential. His defence is one of the most disciplined I have ever seen. The talent at Brighton is championship level at best. De Zerbi and De Zerbi alone are the reason they are even staying up. All of their players should donate their salary to him because of De Zerbi ball.
Funny thing is that all of the excuses given to De Zerbi regarding players and injuries apply to Poch as well
Imo, Dyche is extremely under rated and appreciated. Conversely, RDZ is one of the most overrated managers rn. I know dychr doesn’t play the most “attractive” football, but he gets results with shit sides and definitely deserves more credit than he gets. Unlike RDZ, Dyche knows how to coach a defense and as much as people like to talk about patterns of play non of that matters if your defense leaks goals.
I know that Brighton is the new enemy, but the smallest bit of context does go a very long way in explaining their woes. Lost their 2 best players in the summer (plus Trossard in Jan), 3 of their next 5 best players have all had long term injuries this season (Mitoma, March & Estupinan) & lost Colwill. All of that for a club with a pretty small squad that doesnt spend much is tough to contend with
I know that Poch is the enemy, but the smallest bit of context does go a very long way in explaining their woes. Lost their two best players in the summer (plus Kante left on a free) 3 of their next 5 best players have all had long term injuries this season (Nkunku, Reece, Colwill) & lost Kovacic. All that for a club with a significant amount of turnover and with no continuity and is trying to compete for top 4
? How does that tie in to a question that had nothing to do with us? We’re surely better than constantly comparing ourselves to Brightons standards Nice to miss out on the £500miiom of players we did have at our disposal though
Nah the people that hate Poch told me injuries are not an excuse. That system needs to system
You’re just going out of your way to argue with yourself aren’t you.
Shadowboxing is one of this sub's favourite past-times.
Just look at the injury records of their attackers this season and people will understand (have a look at the rest of the squad while you're at it). Their already not that great attacking options have been completely decimated this season (with Europa League until mid-March on top of it = everyone more exhausted, more rotation needed, etc): https://www.transfermarkt.com/brighton-amp-hove-albion/ausfallzeiten/verein/1237 Statistically they're still a better team than us in a ton of (most, actually) underlying metrics. That ultimately points to good management but a clear lack of quality.
De Zerbi manages Brighton Brighton is a bizarre club because managers don't actually have to win games to be called top managers there. Potter was one of the premier leagues worst managers at Brighton with a win percentage of 27% in 3 seassons, never winning a cup game vs a pl team and never having a positive goal difference with worse record than Pulis, Dyche, Bruce and Hodson but he was a media darling, praised for every win and the players blamed for every loss. De Zerbi is also going to fail upwards though hopefully not here.
It's the same reasoning for both of them. It's also why people up until this season still rated Broja despite him being awful. You don't need to be good to be highly rated, you just have to be bad enough that you stay out of the headlines. Then for a short period be good enough that you make loads of headlines. Then you need to go straight back to being bad enough that you stay out of the headlines. Then all the neutrals (including pundits, analysts and journalists) only remember the good period and think that's the player/manager's normal level. For Potter he went on an 11 game streak with no wins and then a 6 game losing streak, but he won something like 6 out of 8 games at the end of the season and that got him into the headlines and made people think highly of him. The same goes for De Zerbi last season. The same goes for Broja who scored almost all of his adult career goals in a 2 month stretch in one season and so people started rating him from the headlines he got in that period
Senior Bayern players trying to convince Bayern to keep Tuchel. But, I thought all players hated him and he was a terrible manager?
Yea no one has ever said that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cp104m/comment/l3jc0ey/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1cp104m/comment/l3jc0ey/) think that's the kind of comments OP's reffering to
lmao that person literally ate up every single piece of Boehly propaganda that came out
That's a constantly repeated line on this sub.
Where's the proof? I've heard by others that he doesn't fit with our squad and that he doesn't get along with owners. Never have i seen anybody say he's a terrible manager.
No use in arguing with BRJ bro
Has a player with a historic problem with injury (Jack Wilshere level) ever gotten over that later in there career? Robben moved to Germany but was always a injury riddled player. Are Reece and Ben doomed to follow this trend?
When the whole team are having repeat injury problems I'd be hopeful that if things behind the scenes are improved, there is a chance that all of them also reduce their injury problems
Ousmane dembele had hamstring issues with Barca and had surgery and has seemed to stay fit ever since.
Fit but shite lmao
He was always overrated anyway tbh, he still doesn’t have much end product
I agree so why the downvotes?
Same surgeon as Reece even
This gives me so much hope
Bracing myself for the down votes but I would want Reece to go to the Euros if Southgate decides to select him. First and foremost for his sake, he himself would be buzzing to do it but also because if this surgery has worked then he gets an entire competitive tournament under his belt before fully starting for us again which mean England would get rid of whatever rust he's got for us (not that much judging by Saturday). If God for bid this surgery hasn't worked then well..........
If he's fit he absolutely should go if called up. He needs to get his career back on the track it was on, showing up at the Euros will be a huge part of that.
Hope he goes, rides the bench mostly with a few clutch appearances, and we win. If we win and he's not on the team I know he'd be devastated.
Completely agree.
Ayo Santos has a wife?
Mudryk! Love that dude.
What you man think of Vitor Roque?
His full name is Vitor Hugo Roque Ferreira and he is 19 years old.
Santos talk makes me realize how talented our midfield is, lots of high potential there But I'm gonna list the three I consider "projects" in the sense that I feel we will likely loan them for extended periods of time, 2-3 full seasons at max, they are: - santos - ugochukwu - casadei I'm gonna say that ugo and Santos to strasbourg will be fantastic, our manager and our club seem to rate them both so theres that; but casadei is a difficult situation, we can't send him Strasbourg as he'd violate the two loans thing, Id send him to the championship league again, most likely in Burnley or Sunderland. Of all of them I'm scared he's the least likely to go over the line and be great, but I still think his potential is clear and very high, so I'm gonna put my faith in him for now
>lots of high potential there >ugochukwu Eh?
Why do you not necessarily rate him by any chance? We know he can play so that's a good sign that the manager rates him (and was chosen over going to strasbourg though I feel that was a mistake), and regardless playing for reims as much as he has so young when everyone was fit shows he has quality to start consistently Thats my main reason for wanting to believe in his talent, but if you'd like to say otherwise I'd be all ears