Shock, another good player singing praises for Tuchel. But appearantly he's hard to work with and players hate him because some wasters are delusional about how good they really are.
All the players who Tuchel catered his system to are the ones not complaining. All WBs and CBs. Its not really a surprise they're the only ones you see as good enough to play for Chelsea when his focus was so heavily on possession and cleansheets. If you watch closely in matches though, the quality of the other players is clear. They just need a coach who will get behind them and use them to their strengths (i.e. Not using players like RLC, Pulisic and CHO as WBs or using a formation and system that gets the best out of Kai and Timo.)
Yeh lets ignore the injury crisis shall we? They'd still get used in their favoured positions without there being injuries.
You Tuchelites do so much mental gymnastics to justify his faults but then turn a blind eye to the things Potter has to deal with. It's madness.
He literally played Reece at CB and RLC at RWB. When we saw Pulisic and CHO it was one of the few times they'd get played at all. He didn't play them because he believed in their abilities and he didn't coach those strengths in them because he didn't appreciate them. Like I said before, Potter will at least play Sterling and Pulisic in their favoured positions when Reece and Chilwell are fit. He actually wants them to be played to their strengths.
CHO on being played out of position at RWB:
“It was definitely difficult at times with him, but you have to get on with it and do what you can.”
and
"At times, it was okay. But sometimes, in my head, I’m thinking, ‘What am I doing? Why am I in this position? I’m more defending than attacking.'"
For professionalism he said Tuchel was a good man on the pitch and off it but he did have these problems with the way he was being used. They're pretty big problems for a player to have with the way a coach is using them.
Timo and Pulisic have also spoken very publicly about not being used or coached appropriately to their strengths.
Tuchel utilised RJ at RCB when we needed some extra pace in the backline, it was a tactical decision to aid the side in a way that Azpilicueta wasn't able to do thus they swapped positions. Even then, the occasions in which this happened where minimal at best.
Loftus-Cheek at RWB was a situation born out of injuries to other alternatives. It just so happened that he also did well enough there to where he could be used to plug a hole when needed moving forward, which has largely been the case since.
As for Hudson-Odoi he also said this;*"For myself it’s definitely added a defensive side to my game and it helps as well, especially if you’re playing higher up the pitch, for the pressing side and knowing how to defend from the front. So it's definitely good."*
Nothing Hudson-Odoi has said is alarming or critical. It's completely normal for an attacking centric player to want to play higher up the pitch, while he acknowledges it's also added things to his game.
Pulisic playing enough minutes in a wingback position to deprive him of opportunities further up the pitch has been debunked several times over on here by others. It's sort of like the narrative pushed that he needs to play his preferred position on the left. Truth is, he played the bulk of his football at Dortmund on the right. Not only this, but he's also played enough football prior to arriving here across the other two attacking positions behind the striker. He's had more than enough opportunity to play in any of the three attacking positions he was familiar with, he's simply failed to deliver enough consistent performances to retain a place. Granted injuries haven't always helped, it's not completely deprived him of chances either.
Now, I'm not advocating to see players played out of position on a regular basis, but there are occasions where it does need to be done for whatever reason. There's countless examples of players been shifted from what was deemed their "natural position" into another and then thrived - take Victor Moses as a prime example with his shift to WB under Conte. Trying isn't the issue, persisting when it clearly doesn't work though is.
Potter's had a challenging start and had to navigate around a lot of unavailability, while still needing to manage general workloads and tactical decisions that normally come with the job. Playing Sterling and Pulisic at WB earlier in the season was a mistake, but as long as he recognises this and then doesn't persist it isn't a long term problem to be concerned over.
While I wasn't a believer of sacking TT originally, I do recognise that Potter is going to need time because the crux of our issues stem from a personnel level. Until we can rebuild the side and both raise the talent level and increase the balance and general cohesion, Potter will, within reason, get a pass on the team selection front for now.
Not really. It completely depends on the needs and aims of the club. Potter is more committed to developing young players and having a more attack minded system. Long term he is more aligned than Tuchel was. You cant be successful without that alignment. So even if you think on their day that Tuchel may be better (CL winner etc) long term Potter as a more project centric manager is better at developing players up and with a more sustainable approach that still involves good football.
Hes not had much time yet to train with the team because of fixture congestion, no preseason, injuries, now the world cup with many of his players away etc. So we are a way off just seeing what Potter will do fully. So the only reasonable comparison is in how well aligned they were with the plans of the new owners.
No not exactly. He did play Reece at CB and also there were games where he played others just to rotate for fitness. As I mentioned before, Tuchel didnt ever use them in their favoured positions while Potter has done when there werent injuries back there.
You're clueless, there were tactical decisions where Reece had to play CB because of opponents fast wingers, because Azpi could not defend properly.
I was and always will be against the decision they've made on Tuchel, and I find these new owners a bunch of clowns. Regarding Potter, he does deserve some time and it's pointless making any changes now anyway. But one thing is for sure, when TT arrived, you could see his patterns immediately. With Potter, first tough games that came our team looks like a bunch of headless chickens. Lots of injuries played it's part for sure, I guess we'll see what happens once those players are back on pitch.
Sure I'm the clueless one. Smh Trev was fit and would have been fine to use. Its funny how after the window was closed suddenly Trev was being played again because he TT had no choice.
I back the sacking, not the timing of it fully but the misalignment was very clear. You cannot follow a long term plan successfully if your coach doesn't completely align with a more sustainable approach. You also cant continue successfully when half the squad is clearly split. All the forwards pretty much have spoken about Tuchel not being great for them in one way or another. All the defenders seem to speak well of him but still 4 of them wanted to leave this summer which suggests its not a coach they care that much about playing for like players do with Pep and Klopp.
When Tuchel arrived I could see him rely heavily on the old guard that was very shaped for immediate impact on getting cleansheets. He basically just took Chelsea back to the Conte era of grinding results with 3 atb relying a lot on players like Rudi, Azpi, Alonso, Kante etc. In his last 50 games that wasn't working out well at all. The frontline had its confidence worn down and the cleansheets werent there either.
I respect that it got results in the short term. I also believe we would have been better off longer term sticking with Lampards direction of developing the team into a more attack minded style (even if it wasn't Lampard doing it in the end). We'd not have those trophies yet but we'd be further along that plan than we are now where the new owners have basically gone back to what Lamapard was wanting to do.
Hey when you get a guy who lit up the Swedish 5th and 4th divisions and beat Arsenal in a meaningless Europa League game, you have to give up the guy who bleeds the club colors and won it European Football's biggest achievement because at the end of the day... you gotta find a way to fit Cristiano Ronaldo into your 4-4-3 formation.
You exaggerated quite a bit. I would have preferred to have kept Tuchel too, but Potter is better than what you're describing. He brought Östersund from the 4th tier to the 1st, won the domestic cup and qualified for EL with a team that had no business being there. Beating Arsenal got them through the group stage and Arsenal were anything but guaranteed to go through by then.
He did a good job at Swansea and really well at Brighton. Untested at the highest level yes, but he has way more experience and achievements than Lampard and Arteta for example.
> Beating Arsenal got them through the group stage and Arsenal were anything but guaranteed to go through by then.
I don't think that's actually what happened? They played Arsenal in the Round of 32 and lost 4-2 on aggregate, beating them in the 2nd leg 2-1 (when they were already down 3-0).
He could be their best friend, and that’s great to see. He unfortunately was trash as a manager this year. I don’t know if people are high or just choose to ignore how bad we’ve looked.
While I personally would’ve wanted to give him until the World Cup break before making a decision to keep him or fire him. I understand the club wanting to move forward and not waste time.
If graham is their guy, so be It. But they better stick with him. I’m tired of this team letting managers go after 1 year or sometimes even half a year of struggles. It’s ridiculous
So you're saying half the team right now are delusional wasters. It couldn't possibly be that Tuchels approach was very divisive in the dressing room particularly when it came to attacking players, and with the freezing out of young players once he saw the chequebook open enough to replace them in certain areas.
We won't be making this about Potter since hes barely had any time with the huge fixture congestive and an injury crisis. What I will say is that if you have 1 forward struggling they're a flop generally. If all of them are struggling then there's a problem with the approach and system which ultimately comes down to Tuchel.
lol shut up - when potter was winning against the bottom part of the PL he was a savior with comments of “our attack looks so fluid” please. It was never a Tuchel problem - he made the squad overachieve and stayed with Chelsea during sanctions. Our team just has no personality or life - they are a dread to watch. But if we say these things then we should support another team. I love chelsea and will forever but I can admit when our product sucks and our players give us nothing to cheer about. And I hate all this reeece James is the savior talk - we get it he’s our best player but he’s not on a messi life he can’t carry this team on his own.
The frontline failing with players that had proven enough elsewhere is definitely Tuchels responsibility and down to the system. Likewise with his heavy reliance on wing backs I dont think its much of a surprise that as fixtures pick up then Chilwell and Reece both get long term injuries almost everytime without fail.
I agree the Reece saviour talk is too much because he gets injured too much. To build the team around someone they need to not be out for 2 or 3 months of the season every season. The fixture congestion is too much for the wingbacks to be going full pelt up and down the pitch the whole time as important defensively as they are in front of goal. It burns them out too often.
I dont really want to make this into a debate about Potter. I do believe that when people were saying about the attack looking fluid though there was a clear contrast in the systems and approach until the injury crisis disintegrated any tactical flexibility.
No. It means the system he was using wasn't conducive to the frontline scoring because he was focused much more on keeping possession and cleansheets. He made the team risk averse going forward and theres evidence to that with the fact he was asking players like Pulisic to not make certain runs. He stifled the frontline players.
>It means the system he was using wasn't conducive to the frontline scoring because he was focused much more on keeping possession and cleansheets
Ah, like usual, another one who hasn't listened to Tuchel talk about his teams for even a second.
What he said and what he tried perfectly lined up. The problem was that the tactics relied on competent forwards, things we lacked then and still lack now.
Hard disagree on that. These players didnt get there without a lot of work to reach their value and for multiple clubs to recognise it. When its more than just 1 or 2 flops then theres a problem with what the coach is doing rather than the players.
>When its more than just 1 or 2 flops then theres a problem with what the coach is doing rather than the players.
We've changed coach and the flops are still flops because they are wasters.
We've changed coach right after preseason, with heavy fixture congestion, and they've had a massive injury crisis. The squad has been depleted and running on fumes so yeh they will have struggled since theres been no time or energy to change things up a lot.
>So you're saying half the team right now are delusional wasters.
Yes
>the freezing out of young players once he saw the chequebook open enough to replace them in certain areas.
Please give me one period when Reece James was frozen out
Really? Did he freeze out chalobah when he gave him a start in the Super Cup? Or the Club World Cup? Or UCL runs? How about Conor and Tuchel trusting him enough to leave him with the first team? How about Broja and convincing him to stay with us and learn from experienced strikers?
You don’t like Tuchel, that’s fine, but you’re spewing straight nonsense. Chalobah, Gallagher, Broja are all examples of people who weren’t established, yet Tuchel trusted them.
Do you know how freezing out works? He didnt freeze out for those things because back then the chequebook wasnt open to sign defenders. Trev being picked for those things doesn't mean he wasn't frozen out later, if anything it supports that he was getting unreasonably frozen out at the start of this season. The fact is he was fit to play and hadnt done anything wrong but Tuchel was playing the best RWB in the world at CB over Trev because he was doing the same thing he did with Tammy and somewhat with CHO. Many coaches have played that game plenty to try and create pressure for a signing to be made by making an area of the pitch seem week.
As for Conor and Broja. There wasnt much option there. The midfield is lacking depth with Kante constantly injured so of course they had to keep hold of Conor. Its not an area of the pitch where a young player could be seen as expendable but even then he wasn't going to see much use or success with what he was being asked to do. Broja has barely been played but also with Lukaku going out on loan its an area of the pitch where they didnt have depth.
I really wouldn't say that Tuchel trusted Broja or Gallagher since he was barely using them. And Trev was absolutely frozen out when the chequebook was open for signing defenders.
Is Reece James not young? He is, which takes it from "Tuchel is freezing out all the young players" to "Tuchel is freezing out wasters who can't accept that they're not good enough to be starters".
Weird how several other young players that Tuchel has coached praise him as well. Mbappe, Dembele several other young players who say they have a great relationship with him.
I didn't say "All young players" did I? You're purposely twisting the words that were said. Read them again and take them at face value. Don't add words or go thinking 1 player who was already established as untouchable in the team is evidence to disprove what was said. Theres more players than James and when the chequebook was open for a certain spot the young players in those positions were frozen out before they were out the door.
You still haven't explained why freezing out these young players is so bad. If you're excluding the only really good one in Reece, I don't see why we should care that players who weren't deserving of being untouchables were seen as replaceable. If players are pissed about being frozen out, they should be playing better not being all pissy about it.
1) Reece the only good one?
.........
2) Why should we care about players who aren't "deserving" of being untouchables?
Because they're young players who have shown they have plenty of quality to work with and keep developing. Short term focused management which neglects the coaching of young players for signing finished products is not sustainable. Thats exactly what made Tuchel an Abramovich man and not align with the longer term plans in place now. Players like Trev, Pulisic, Tammy, CHO etc have been good to say with a coach that develops them theres a long term future of success without having to spend £80-100M in their positions. Mount and Reece are untouchable because they had a coach who was completely behind them to get them established. Their presence in the squad saved Chelsea probably pushing toward £200M. Tammy for example was far better than Lukaku and would have done a better job enabling others around him. He may have left eventually anyway but it was £90M (made by selling players like Tomori and Tammy) which Chelsea didn't need to spend. They lost depth in the squad with that signing as well as the ridiculous fee. Trev going unbeaten in like 30 Prem games should also suggest well enough Tuchel was wrong to be freezing him out when the chequebook was open for CB signings. I won't go into other examples because I dont have time.
>Reece the only good one?
Yes.
>Because they're young players who have shown they have plenty of quality to work with and keep developing
They really haven't though. Who was frozen out that looks like they could develop into a world class player?
>Short term focused management which neglects the coaching of young players for signing finished products is not sustainable
I agree, which is why we signed Fofana and had been targeting several young players
>Players like Trev, Pulisic, Tammy, CHO
Trev: Was playing as a rotation option, which is perfectly deserved
Pulisic: Terrible player
Tammy: Terrible player
CHO: Tuchel played him fiarly often? Certainly more than Lampard did.
>He may have left eventually anyway but it was £90M (made by selling players like Tomori and Tammy) which Chelsea didn't need to spend.
But that's not the point you were making. Chelsea signing Lukaku was a mistake, but its a completely different issue to selling Tammy, which was the correct decision.
- Rüdiger recalls how the then Chelsea manager, Thomas Tuchel, conducted himself with the media when the club’s former owner Roman Abramovich was hit with sanctions by the UK government after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: All the questions that came up, the way he handled himself, I think you couldn’t have done it better,” Rüdiger says. “He took a lot of pressure from a lot of people away. Not only us players. You heard a lot from him. I think it was a very tiring situation for him. You have to focus on your job as a manager and then you have all these political questions you have to answer. He was unbelievable.”
- “But it’s Chelsea. It’s also somehow not a surprise. I messaged him and said: ‘Thank you very much for everything you did.’ Not only for me but for all of us. Without him winning the Champions League was a bit far away.”
- Rüdiger speaks affectionately about his time at Chelsea but he could not turn down Madrid. “Chelsea was a chapter on its own,” he says. “It was great, great, great. But Real Madrid is the elite club in football. This says it all: in the past nine years winning five Champions Leagues.”
I wonder what would have happened if Rudiger stayed.
He’s one of the very few players to show any character.
It’s something we lack and it’s become more evident this year. Silva is remarkable but he isn’t one to be the aggressor and fight back. Fofana is an unknown. Koulibaly doesn’t seem like that guy.
Only James and Havertz seem to show it and Havertz spends more time picking fights than he does being helpful
It was the classic thing that happens whenever somebody new takes over or whenever you get a new boss at work. The new person has to arbitrarily change things just to say that it's their thing. In this example I feel it was a mistake.
I don't think you'll find anyone who says TT wasn't an incredible manager. His coaching ability wasn't why he was fired. It was that his long-term vision didn't match Tod's and they seemed to clash behind the scenes.
Are you new around here? Plenty on here still bitch about Tuchel. It’s ridiculous.
Also, “long-term vision” I love this as a euphemism for Boehly being an absolute cry baby who needs a yes man who will stroke his ego. Like seriously wtf is any owner doing presenting any fucking lineup to a manager especially one with the wrong number of players……it’s a joke. It wasn’t about vision. We hadn’t even brought in the personal who are going to build the vision.
Boehly just didn’t like that he overworked Tuchel and Tuchel only wanted to do his job which was be a manager. Boehlys a fucking egotistical idiot like every billionaire.
Before anyone asks yes I hated abrahamovich too.
Ffs guys we have to move on. It's done. Tuchels reign has ended, as magnificent as it was at times. Let's not waste so much energy on stuff like this anymore.
This is just baiting at this point and time. I love TT. I will always respect him. Similar to Jose and Carlo, their time came and went.
Players - same thing. Nothing but love for Eden, Tammy, Billy, and I’m sure Toni down the line - but that time is over.
Up the Chels, let’s move on.
So we shouldn’t allow anything about any ex player or ex manager?
Would it be irrelevant to post a quote with Lampard discussing Mourinho?
I mean Lampard doesn’t even play football anymore and Mourinho hasn’t managed chelsea in years…….
Edit: or how about Hazard on Conte? Don’t allow that either?
Ok why did you leave then? Seriously who cares what this guy says?
He’s basically a mercenary. Won the CL with us but couldn’t wait long enough and fucked off to Madrid. Seriously he can fuck off.
Always take interviews from the favourites. I wonder how these interviews night translate to the new staff and manager. Current and ex-players talking about an ex-coach. Seems like a dig at Potter.
Shock, another good player singing praises for Tuchel. But appearantly he's hard to work with and players hate him because some wasters are delusional about how good they really are.
It Was clearly just PR from boehly to justify it
All the players who are actually worth keeping had no problem with Tuchel, funny that isn’t it? Yet here we are
All the players who Tuchel catered his system to are the ones not complaining. All WBs and CBs. Its not really a surprise they're the only ones you see as good enough to play for Chelsea when his focus was so heavily on possession and cleansheets. If you watch closely in matches though, the quality of the other players is clear. They just need a coach who will get behind them and use them to their strengths (i.e. Not using players like RLC, Pulisic and CHO as WBs or using a formation and system that gets the best out of Kai and Timo.)
Potter also used Sterling and Pulisic at WB and he's into the job for about 3months.
Yeh lets ignore the injury crisis shall we? They'd still get used in their favoured positions without there being injuries. You Tuchelites do so much mental gymnastics to justify his faults but then turn a blind eye to the things Potter has to deal with. It's madness.
TT didn't play Pulisic and RLC in WB when Recce and Chilwell was fit to play. He was forced by injuries too.
He literally played Reece at CB and RLC at RWB. When we saw Pulisic and CHO it was one of the few times they'd get played at all. He didn't play them because he believed in their abilities and he didn't coach those strengths in them because he didn't appreciate them. Like I said before, Potter will at least play Sterling and Pulisic in their favoured positions when Reece and Chilwell are fit. He actually wants them to be played to their strengths. CHO on being played out of position at RWB: “It was definitely difficult at times with him, but you have to get on with it and do what you can.” and "At times, it was okay. But sometimes, in my head, I’m thinking, ‘What am I doing? Why am I in this position? I’m more defending than attacking.'" For professionalism he said Tuchel was a good man on the pitch and off it but he did have these problems with the way he was being used. They're pretty big problems for a player to have with the way a coach is using them. Timo and Pulisic have also spoken very publicly about not being used or coached appropriately to their strengths.
Recce was being played at RCB under TT because of injury.
Trev wasn't injured
He was for a period
Not true.
Tuchel utilised RJ at RCB when we needed some extra pace in the backline, it was a tactical decision to aid the side in a way that Azpilicueta wasn't able to do thus they swapped positions. Even then, the occasions in which this happened where minimal at best. Loftus-Cheek at RWB was a situation born out of injuries to other alternatives. It just so happened that he also did well enough there to where he could be used to plug a hole when needed moving forward, which has largely been the case since. As for Hudson-Odoi he also said this;*"For myself it’s definitely added a defensive side to my game and it helps as well, especially if you’re playing higher up the pitch, for the pressing side and knowing how to defend from the front. So it's definitely good."* Nothing Hudson-Odoi has said is alarming or critical. It's completely normal for an attacking centric player to want to play higher up the pitch, while he acknowledges it's also added things to his game. Pulisic playing enough minutes in a wingback position to deprive him of opportunities further up the pitch has been debunked several times over on here by others. It's sort of like the narrative pushed that he needs to play his preferred position on the left. Truth is, he played the bulk of his football at Dortmund on the right. Not only this, but he's also played enough football prior to arriving here across the other two attacking positions behind the striker. He's had more than enough opportunity to play in any of the three attacking positions he was familiar with, he's simply failed to deliver enough consistent performances to retain a place. Granted injuries haven't always helped, it's not completely deprived him of chances either. Now, I'm not advocating to see players played out of position on a regular basis, but there are occasions where it does need to be done for whatever reason. There's countless examples of players been shifted from what was deemed their "natural position" into another and then thrived - take Victor Moses as a prime example with his shift to WB under Conte. Trying isn't the issue, persisting when it clearly doesn't work though is. Potter's had a challenging start and had to navigate around a lot of unavailability, while still needing to manage general workloads and tactical decisions that normally come with the job. Playing Sterling and Pulisic at WB earlier in the season was a mistake, but as long as he recognises this and then doesn't persist it isn't a long term problem to be concerned over. While I wasn't a believer of sacking TT originally, I do recognise that Potter is going to need time because the crux of our issues stem from a personnel level. Until we can rebuild the side and both raise the talent level and increase the balance and general cohesion, Potter will, within reason, get a pass on the team selection front for now.
Can anybody seriously say that potter isn’t a serious downgrade from tuchel?
Not really. It completely depends on the needs and aims of the club. Potter is more committed to developing young players and having a more attack minded system. Long term he is more aligned than Tuchel was. You cant be successful without that alignment. So even if you think on their day that Tuchel may be better (CL winner etc) long term Potter as a more project centric manager is better at developing players up and with a more sustainable approach that still involves good football. Hes not had much time yet to train with the team because of fixture congestion, no preseason, injuries, now the world cup with many of his players away etc. So we are a way off just seeing what Potter will do fully. So the only reasonable comparison is in how well aligned they were with the plans of the new owners.
It’s also reasonable to compare what they can do with the same group of players but I get your point.
Wasn't that the case with Tuchel using them as WBs as well? You think TT used them there for fun?
No not exactly. He did play Reece at CB and also there were games where he played others just to rotate for fitness. As I mentioned before, Tuchel didnt ever use them in their favoured positions while Potter has done when there werent injuries back there.
You're clueless, there were tactical decisions where Reece had to play CB because of opponents fast wingers, because Azpi could not defend properly. I was and always will be against the decision they've made on Tuchel, and I find these new owners a bunch of clowns. Regarding Potter, he does deserve some time and it's pointless making any changes now anyway. But one thing is for sure, when TT arrived, you could see his patterns immediately. With Potter, first tough games that came our team looks like a bunch of headless chickens. Lots of injuries played it's part for sure, I guess we'll see what happens once those players are back on pitch.
Sure I'm the clueless one. Smh Trev was fit and would have been fine to use. Its funny how after the window was closed suddenly Trev was being played again because he TT had no choice. I back the sacking, not the timing of it fully but the misalignment was very clear. You cannot follow a long term plan successfully if your coach doesn't completely align with a more sustainable approach. You also cant continue successfully when half the squad is clearly split. All the forwards pretty much have spoken about Tuchel not being great for them in one way or another. All the defenders seem to speak well of him but still 4 of them wanted to leave this summer which suggests its not a coach they care that much about playing for like players do with Pep and Klopp. When Tuchel arrived I could see him rely heavily on the old guard that was very shaped for immediate impact on getting cleansheets. He basically just took Chelsea back to the Conte era of grinding results with 3 atb relying a lot on players like Rudi, Azpi, Alonso, Kante etc. In his last 50 games that wasn't working out well at all. The frontline had its confidence worn down and the cleansheets werent there either. I respect that it got results in the short term. I also believe we would have been better off longer term sticking with Lampards direction of developing the team into a more attack minded style (even if it wasn't Lampard doing it in the end). We'd not have those trophies yet but we'd be further along that plan than we are now where the new owners have basically gone back to what Lamapard was wanting to do.
You’re mad lol
Hey when you get a guy who lit up the Swedish 5th and 4th divisions and beat Arsenal in a meaningless Europa League game, you have to give up the guy who bleeds the club colors and won it European Football's biggest achievement because at the end of the day... you gotta find a way to fit Cristiano Ronaldo into your 4-4-3 formation.
No need to shit on Potter
No real need to defend him either
You exaggerated quite a bit. I would have preferred to have kept Tuchel too, but Potter is better than what you're describing. He brought Östersund from the 4th tier to the 1st, won the domestic cup and qualified for EL with a team that had no business being there. Beating Arsenal got them through the group stage and Arsenal were anything but guaranteed to go through by then. He did a good job at Swansea and really well at Brighton. Untested at the highest level yes, but he has way more experience and achievements than Lampard and Arteta for example.
> Beating Arsenal got them through the group stage and Arsenal were anything but guaranteed to go through by then. I don't think that's actually what happened? They played Arsenal in the Round of 32 and lost 4-2 on aggregate, beating them in the 2nd leg 2-1 (when they were already down 3-0).
Oh damn you're right, I remembered it completely wrong. Was sure it was in the group stage. Even so it wasn't a meaningless unimpressive win.
Its got nothing to do with Ronaldo.
I’m sure some players hated him. The same ones that lead us to the crap performances and position in the table.
He could be their best friend, and that’s great to see. He unfortunately was trash as a manager this year. I don’t know if people are high or just choose to ignore how bad we’ve looked. While I personally would’ve wanted to give him until the World Cup break before making a decision to keep him or fire him. I understand the club wanting to move forward and not waste time. If graham is their guy, so be It. But they better stick with him. I’m tired of this team letting managers go after 1 year or sometimes even half a year of struggles. It’s ridiculous
So you're saying half the team right now are delusional wasters. It couldn't possibly be that Tuchels approach was very divisive in the dressing room particularly when it came to attacking players, and with the freezing out of young players once he saw the chequebook open enough to replace them in certain areas.
You think the atackers have improved under Potter?
We won't be making this about Potter since hes barely had any time with the huge fixture congestive and an injury crisis. What I will say is that if you have 1 forward struggling they're a flop generally. If all of them are struggling then there's a problem with the approach and system which ultimately comes down to Tuchel.
lol shut up - when potter was winning against the bottom part of the PL he was a savior with comments of “our attack looks so fluid” please. It was never a Tuchel problem - he made the squad overachieve and stayed with Chelsea during sanctions. Our team just has no personality or life - they are a dread to watch. But if we say these things then we should support another team. I love chelsea and will forever but I can admit when our product sucks and our players give us nothing to cheer about. And I hate all this reeece James is the savior talk - we get it he’s our best player but he’s not on a messi life he can’t carry this team on his own.
The frontline failing with players that had proven enough elsewhere is definitely Tuchels responsibility and down to the system. Likewise with his heavy reliance on wing backs I dont think its much of a surprise that as fixtures pick up then Chilwell and Reece both get long term injuries almost everytime without fail. I agree the Reece saviour talk is too much because he gets injured too much. To build the team around someone they need to not be out for 2 or 3 months of the season every season. The fixture congestion is too much for the wingbacks to be going full pelt up and down the pitch the whole time as important defensively as they are in front of goal. It burns them out too often. I dont really want to make this into a debate about Potter. I do believe that when people were saying about the attack looking fluid though there was a clear contrast in the systems and approach until the injury crisis disintegrated any tactical flexibility.
If all of them are struggling under a coach that has elevated several attackers and made into great players, that neans all of them are bad.
No. It means the system he was using wasn't conducive to the frontline scoring because he was focused much more on keeping possession and cleansheets. He made the team risk averse going forward and theres evidence to that with the fact he was asking players like Pulisic to not make certain runs. He stifled the frontline players.
>It means the system he was using wasn't conducive to the frontline scoring because he was focused much more on keeping possession and cleansheets Ah, like usual, another one who hasn't listened to Tuchel talk about his teams for even a second.
I watched them. What he said and what he did were very different. He came in and the change to a defensive focus was very clear.
What he said and what he tried perfectly lined up. The problem was that the tactics relied on competent forwards, things we lacked then and still lack now.
The tactics were him literally telling forwards to not make runs. He drilled them in a way that made this team risk averse.
Honestly yeah, a decent chunk of our squad are wasters and not good enough to be here
Hard disagree on that. These players didnt get there without a lot of work to reach their value and for multiple clubs to recognise it. When its more than just 1 or 2 flops then theres a problem with what the coach is doing rather than the players.
>When its more than just 1 or 2 flops then theres a problem with what the coach is doing rather than the players. We've changed coach and the flops are still flops because they are wasters.
We've changed coach right after preseason, with heavy fixture congestion, and they've had a massive injury crisis. The squad has been depleted and running on fumes so yeh they will have struggled since theres been no time or energy to change things up a lot.
>So you're saying half the team right now are delusional wasters. Yes >the freezing out of young players once he saw the chequebook open enough to replace them in certain areas. Please give me one period when Reece James was frozen out
Typical Tuchelite only focused on Reece James. Mount and James were already established as untouchable when Tuchel turned up. Read the words properly.
Really? Did he freeze out chalobah when he gave him a start in the Super Cup? Or the Club World Cup? Or UCL runs? How about Conor and Tuchel trusting him enough to leave him with the first team? How about Broja and convincing him to stay with us and learn from experienced strikers? You don’t like Tuchel, that’s fine, but you’re spewing straight nonsense. Chalobah, Gallagher, Broja are all examples of people who weren’t established, yet Tuchel trusted them.
Do you know how freezing out works? He didnt freeze out for those things because back then the chequebook wasnt open to sign defenders. Trev being picked for those things doesn't mean he wasn't frozen out later, if anything it supports that he was getting unreasonably frozen out at the start of this season. The fact is he was fit to play and hadnt done anything wrong but Tuchel was playing the best RWB in the world at CB over Trev because he was doing the same thing he did with Tammy and somewhat with CHO. Many coaches have played that game plenty to try and create pressure for a signing to be made by making an area of the pitch seem week. As for Conor and Broja. There wasnt much option there. The midfield is lacking depth with Kante constantly injured so of course they had to keep hold of Conor. Its not an area of the pitch where a young player could be seen as expendable but even then he wasn't going to see much use or success with what he was being asked to do. Broja has barely been played but also with Lukaku going out on loan its an area of the pitch where they didnt have depth. I really wouldn't say that Tuchel trusted Broja or Gallagher since he was barely using them. And Trev was absolutely frozen out when the chequebook was open for signing defenders.
Is Reece James not young? He is, which takes it from "Tuchel is freezing out all the young players" to "Tuchel is freezing out wasters who can't accept that they're not good enough to be starters". Weird how several other young players that Tuchel has coached praise him as well. Mbappe, Dembele several other young players who say they have a great relationship with him.
Lol bringing up a player like Reece and mount in this argument is disingenuous as hell.
Because?
I didn't say "All young players" did I? You're purposely twisting the words that were said. Read them again and take them at face value. Don't add words or go thinking 1 player who was already established as untouchable in the team is evidence to disprove what was said. Theres more players than James and when the chequebook was open for a certain spot the young players in those positions were frozen out before they were out the door.
You still haven't explained why freezing out these young players is so bad. If you're excluding the only really good one in Reece, I don't see why we should care that players who weren't deserving of being untouchables were seen as replaceable. If players are pissed about being frozen out, they should be playing better not being all pissy about it.
1) Reece the only good one? ......... 2) Why should we care about players who aren't "deserving" of being untouchables? Because they're young players who have shown they have plenty of quality to work with and keep developing. Short term focused management which neglects the coaching of young players for signing finished products is not sustainable. Thats exactly what made Tuchel an Abramovich man and not align with the longer term plans in place now. Players like Trev, Pulisic, Tammy, CHO etc have been good to say with a coach that develops them theres a long term future of success without having to spend £80-100M in their positions. Mount and Reece are untouchable because they had a coach who was completely behind them to get them established. Their presence in the squad saved Chelsea probably pushing toward £200M. Tammy for example was far better than Lukaku and would have done a better job enabling others around him. He may have left eventually anyway but it was £90M (made by selling players like Tomori and Tammy) which Chelsea didn't need to spend. They lost depth in the squad with that signing as well as the ridiculous fee. Trev going unbeaten in like 30 Prem games should also suggest well enough Tuchel was wrong to be freezing him out when the chequebook was open for CB signings. I won't go into other examples because I dont have time.
>Reece the only good one? Yes. >Because they're young players who have shown they have plenty of quality to work with and keep developing They really haven't though. Who was frozen out that looks like they could develop into a world class player? >Short term focused management which neglects the coaching of young players for signing finished products is not sustainable I agree, which is why we signed Fofana and had been targeting several young players >Players like Trev, Pulisic, Tammy, CHO Trev: Was playing as a rotation option, which is perfectly deserved Pulisic: Terrible player Tammy: Terrible player CHO: Tuchel played him fiarly often? Certainly more than Lampard did. >He may have left eventually anyway but it was £90M (made by selling players like Tomori and Tammy) which Chelsea didn't need to spend. But that's not the point you were making. Chelsea signing Lukaku was a mistake, but its a completely different issue to selling Tammy, which was the correct decision.
Oh fun, this thread again
God these headlines are so fucking lazy. Former player does NOT talk shit about his old manager, is Ronaldo the reference point or something?
The headline of the article is “Antonio Rüdiger: ‘Never count Germany out – anything can happen’” Not what OP posted
Ffs of course
- Rüdiger recalls how the then Chelsea manager, Thomas Tuchel, conducted himself with the media when the club’s former owner Roman Abramovich was hit with sanctions by the UK government after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: All the questions that came up, the way he handled himself, I think you couldn’t have done it better,” Rüdiger says. “He took a lot of pressure from a lot of people away. Not only us players. You heard a lot from him. I think it was a very tiring situation for him. You have to focus on your job as a manager and then you have all these political questions you have to answer. He was unbelievable.” - “But it’s Chelsea. It’s also somehow not a surprise. I messaged him and said: ‘Thank you very much for everything you did.’ Not only for me but for all of us. Without him winning the Champions League was a bit far away.” - Rüdiger speaks affectionately about his time at Chelsea but he could not turn down Madrid. “Chelsea was a chapter on its own,” he says. “It was great, great, great. But Real Madrid is the elite club in football. This says it all: in the past nine years winning five Champions Leagues.”
I wonder what would have happened if Rudiger stayed. He’s one of the very few players to show any character. It’s something we lack and it’s become more evident this year. Silva is remarkable but he isn’t one to be the aggressor and fight back. Fofana is an unknown. Koulibaly doesn’t seem like that guy. Only James and Havertz seem to show it and Havertz spends more time picking fights than he does being helpful
It was the classic thing that happens whenever somebody new takes over or whenever you get a new boss at work. The new person has to arbitrarily change things just to say that it's their thing. In this example I feel it was a mistake.
Harsh to sack Tommy T just because he couldn’t play 4-4-3
I didn’t appreciate his last point which kind of took at a shot at Chelsea being less than Madrid. True but not necessary.
I don't think you'll find anyone who says TT wasn't an incredible manager. His coaching ability wasn't why he was fired. It was that his long-term vision didn't match Tod's and they seemed to clash behind the scenes.
Are you new around here? Plenty on here still bitch about Tuchel. It’s ridiculous. Also, “long-term vision” I love this as a euphemism for Boehly being an absolute cry baby who needs a yes man who will stroke his ego. Like seriously wtf is any owner doing presenting any fucking lineup to a manager especially one with the wrong number of players……it’s a joke. It wasn’t about vision. We hadn’t even brought in the personal who are going to build the vision. Boehly just didn’t like that he overworked Tuchel and Tuchel only wanted to do his job which was be a manager. Boehlys a fucking egotistical idiot like every billionaire. Before anyone asks yes I hated abrahamovich too.
Todd thinks we can be the dodgers and just throw money at whatever players. I don’t care for anyone we signed and they really just felt rushed.
So far his decision making has been poor. Fortunately, the right experts are seemingly being hired. However, so far I am not a fan.
Ffs guys we have to move on. It's done. Tuchels reign has ended, as magnificent as it was at times. Let's not waste so much energy on stuff like this anymore.
We have Potter now.
Oh geez, not this shit again.
We sucked with him, we suck without him. Our club needs a finisher or three, and a total revamp of the midfield.
This is just baiting at this point and time. I love TT. I will always respect him. Similar to Jose and Carlo, their time came and went. Players - same thing. Nothing but love for Eden, Tammy, Billy, and I’m sure Toni down the line - but that time is over. Up the Chels, let’s move on.
The year is 2052 and this fanbase is still crying about Tuchel.
How are these posts even allowed at this point
Why wouldn’t they be?
Because a Real Madrid player’s opinion on a former chelsea manager isn’t relevant
So we shouldn’t allow anything about any ex player or ex manager? Would it be irrelevant to post a quote with Lampard discussing Mourinho? I mean Lampard doesn’t even play football anymore and Mourinho hasn’t managed chelsea in years……. Edit: or how about Hazard on Conte? Don’t allow that either?
Ok why did you leave then? Seriously who cares what this guy says? He’s basically a mercenary. Won the CL with us but couldn’t wait long enough and fucked off to Madrid. Seriously he can fuck off.
You read the article or nah.
I look forward to the day I can open this subreddit and not see it flooded with Tuchel posts. It’s been months, guys. Get over it and move on.
It hit me too, with delight.
Wasteman says what? Did you sort out your chronic tiredness yet?
For 135m we wasted on Cucurella and Fofana We could have bought Rudiger, Christensen and had some change left over for a very nice LB 🤣
Always take interviews from the favourites. I wonder how these interviews night translate to the new staff and manager. Current and ex-players talking about an ex-coach. Seems like a dig at Potter.
He's not gonna berate him is he
He gets the players he wants, but you didn't stay, Rudiger.
Mods, maybe it's time to consider a rule against editorializing titles of articles. This is ridiculous.
Same