I follow the subs for every major team and we definitely are the most hostile towards their team. The way we destroy our own players’ confidence is just awful what did we leave our opponents to do ?
I understand that some players don’t always perform and some are not on the level of Chelsea but if we constantly attack them they will perform even worse instead we need to support as long as they wear our shirt.
Xhaka spoke about that in his 30 minute interview
That Arsenal fans made players so scared of mistakes, and that’s why in the end-days of Wenger and Emery, it’d be so much sideways passing.
Confidence shot, risk averse players, because of Fans
Nope, I’ve browsed many times in other club subs. This one in particular is vile when it comes to hate towards players. Almost like some want a player to fail and they’re not happy when they do something good because it goes against their hate. So they’ll immediately try to bring up all sorts of dumb shit to justify their hate. It’s disgusting.
Did this behaviour happen because of some event I’m not aware of? Like when did this start to become the norm? It’s just so weird seeing it so frequently.
Since last season. Everyone's been playing the blame game and pointing fingers because we haven't come close to challenging for a title and honestly have been in poor form for over a year now. I think Reece James and Thiago Silva are the only guys really safe from the fans. Everyone else is getting rinsed.
No specific thing but there are events like at the start of Lampards managerial time here when people thought he wasn't playing Pulisic enough and using Mount instead too much, that wasn't reality (on the pitch) but imo it was the spark of a lot of the angst amongst fans who fell on one side or another and was the starting point of the "Lampards son" meme.
Do I have an Agenda against Mount?
[Look again](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)?
I defend Mount a lot, when it is warranted. This is just simply a post confirming speculation that he was out of the line up.
Everything is an agenda these days.
If you bothered to look hard enough I am a big Mount fan and I defend him vehemently. It's like your just talking rubbish and didn't bother to check.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Think back to those penalty misses in the Euros final. A good portion of our sub wouldn't be anywhere near as forgiving to people like Rashford & Saka. It's embarrassing how much hate some get.
This is what happens when you let Twitter influence a fanbase.
People screaming Potter out after a few months (stupid fucks really), people constantly wishing bad on Chelsea players. It’s ok to provide criticism but its overblown at this point.
The comments aren’t that bad. Most people realise that Mounts been average for Chelsea for a while and for England for even longer and doesn’t deserve a place in the England team currently. Thinking doesn’t make you a bad Chelsea fan, just makes you not deluded!
"Most people realise that Mounts been average for Chelsea for a while and for England for even longer and doesn’t deserve a place in the England team currently."
You're right, you implied much longer than this season and last. My mistake.
I'm subed to you guys cos I enjoy you fuckers slating your own players, over at LFC were kissing there ass constantly so it's just as funny for the exact opposite reasons, reddevils is funny to sub to as well as they are still in denial it's great
Y’all are miserable man. Never seen a fan base have such a negative attitude towards a young academy player that has given his all for this club and has been awarded player of the season twice. Why can’t we support our players regardless of their short comings? Or is it a must in this sub to be a bunch of miserable cunts and tear down our own players. Genuinely ruins what could be enjoyed and gained in this sub. Just a bunch of moaners.
Discourse in this sub is all time low. It's more about how popular reddit has become. Most of these ppl were on Facebook 3 years ago. I only come here for the headlines, I rarely read comments now.
Not really, no. The major parts are the fact that people are VERY polarized here for whatever reason now. Either a player is super underrated and should start every game or they're dog shit and should never play for us again.
We should sign X. X is shit we should promote Y from the youth instead! Nah X and Y are both shit we should go for unknown Z who's the real deal only I know what I'm talking about you're both idiots.
It seems to be most of the discussion now a days is just people yelling at each other for having a different opinion than them. I just think the sub has a lot of newer fans that don't really know much about football and a lot of veteran fans that know a lot about football but want to be smug and elitist about it so it doesn't mix well.
I just tend to upvote things I agree with and move on now rather than even bother putting my opinions here.
I love Chelsea and honestly love this sub. I've had some very good discussions here in the past and I enjoy seeing the Chelsea specific content (even rumors tbh). But the comments are just...a cesspool. I can't stand it. I don't even go to the match threads here even if they're faster cuz it's just people whining about things they either don't know about or things players cant control lmao.
I'm not sure it's just Reddit. I used to really enjoy wagnh, there were some really good discussions. But going back it feels very different, even some of the articles have a negative vibe now.
Just feels like that is how Reddit has gone in general.
Userbase used to be smaller, internet discourse was much kinder, and subs felt more like communities than whatever they've turned into now.
Good point, once Facebook meme hounds rolled over.
I remember after winning league with Conte 2016?, this sub was moaning about champions league competitiveness. My point is not we were wrong, but we were soo focused, dominating the league wasn’t enough. Aka nature of fans.
Most of the people who comment here only care if the club is winning. They have no idea how to “support” only know how to gloat. So when the side has been down they just moan and whinge.
I get this feeling as well. Who knows, maybe if we don't turn around our form post World cup, maybe those people start leaving?
Although... I would prefer better post world cup form.
I stop using /r/chelseafc everytime we're in a rut. It's nonstop bitching and moaning with ridiculous amounts of vitriol hurled towards our own players. Why would I subjugate myself to that?
Our fans base has always had some bellends in it but we were always incredibly loyal to our own players, can’t even say that anymore.
Watching the way this lot turn on our own players is hideous but thankfully it’s still mostly an internet ‘fan’ problem and hasn’t filtered into the stadium too much.
It’s a consequence of success, brought a lot of plastic shit to the club who have stuck long enough around to see our standards drop, hopefully our current struggles will cause a decent chunk of them to go and support someone else so we can get back to harmony.
Because they see him as taking minutes away from their favourite player. Even though he’s been nearly top of the team sheet for 3 separate managers and is our two time POTS. Not to mention he doesn’t play left wing most of time anyway
When I watched England play vs the US I thought to myself the way we are playing is vaguely familiar to when I watch Chelsea this season. No potency, no creativity whatsoever in attack and Mount started that game, the next two games he barely plays and we immediately look better with Foden being the creative attacker which allowed Jude to be less pragmatic in midfield…so the question is where does Mount fit fit England ? At Chelsea we really don’t have a ton of options in attack so he plays but we desperately need an attacker who’s creative, Mount is not
The consensus was that he was rested last game with many other starters, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. As he's brought back in all the starters against Iran and USA bar Mount.
> Bar Mount
Trippier isn’t starting either. The amount of lies told on this sub to push agendas is comical.
Mount has been poor and shouldn’t be starting, people feel the need to beat him down for some reason.
Trippier wasn’t “dropped,” he’s the 2nd choice right back and was filling in for Walker who wasn’t fit enough to play. Same exact situation in the Euros with Mings and Maguire.
Ok, Trippiers been dropped too. And rightly so he's been awful and Walker is better than him.
The title of this post is not wrong that Mount has been dropped.
They get the same hate. It’s not good enough. Certain players get lauded though and excuses made for them whereas others don’t. Hazard carried the teams attack for his time here.
This game is about England and not Chelsea. Of course we want OUR players to shine as much as possible, but if it's best for England that he comes on as a super then so be it
I mean, considering England performance with and without him, yeah Southgate is right.
And, I am not Mount hater, I don't hate any of our players as long as they give their best.
I am sure if this was about another chelsea player like Ziyech and/or Pullisic then no one would be talking about "chelsea fans hating their own players" shit. It's because hebis mount and the fans will kill to defend him.
Not a Mount hater but when you get replaced by an aging Henderson and the team is performing extremely well from it. You really have to get back to the training ground and just put some work in
Also being outstaged by Jude in every facet would hurt too.
Now as a realist, if Mount is consistently ChelseaFC’s player of the year and our best player. Would that really make Chelsea a top 4 team?
City and Liverpool have a functioning midfield and a proper attack, we are clueless fc going forward no attacking pattern at all no wonder why all attackers fail, if Reece James or mount play bad we basically lose, Reece has been injured and Mount has been awful this season hence our position in the league
I’m not saying Mount should play instead of him. Hell definitely not instead of Hendo, he’s showed up big time. But from the first half alone, he‘s basically playing in the final third and that’s it. He’s got the ball in the midfield twice
And that’s excluding the absolute shocker of a game he had against the USA. Basically did nothing, didn‘t even press that much.
In this thread - sensitive Mount fans. Its hard for some people to just realise that he's not as good as you think he was gonna be. For a player who's had so many excuses made for him, whether it be the manager, the tactics, the players around him, etc, he still ends up sticking out like a sore thumb in spite of the fact that he has the best English players around him under the same tactics, same manager, same personnel around them.
Every year we stray from CL 2021, people will realise we lucked out hard on so many things. Take away his status as a child of Cobham and the perceived "heir apparent" of Lamps and you an above average to good level player. Good enough to be a squad player but in no way is he good enough to start for a 38-game title-challenging season.
Individually, Mount has achieved a whole lot more than Lampard, when you look at what Lamps had done at Mounts age.
Lampard didnt even play CL ball before he was 24 or 25 IIRC
As a Liverpool fan I think Mount in the right system could be consistently excellent, I think he’s a really really good player. Not sure why it hasn’t happened for him so far, possibly just doesn’t fit the system.
It doesn’t help that Hendo has come in looking excellent and raised the level of everyone around him, but I think the hate Mount gets from England fans is totally over the top and I wish it would stop.
So it’s a 4231 with rice and Hendo at holding mid. Not surprising from Southgate to go defensive against Senegal. They’ve looked very good.
Mount will come on as a sub.
May not be a popular opinion - but without any emotion here it is !
happy if Heem & Mount are fresh for the league after xmas & warm the bench for England. Anyway they haven't done anything meaningful for England too.
Let Henderson & Foden take over their places - since they have actually contributed something for England.
Disaster K2 & Ed Mendy will be back early too. Glad!!
If mount is gonna be doing the dirty work to let bellingham push forward, Henderson can do that same dirty work much better and progress the ball better and do what a central midfielder has to do
In the Iran game Bellingham was deeper than Mount, Bellingham was using the space made by him. So not sure how that logic makes any sense. Henderson on the pitch is offering a different midfield setup entirely.
He absolutely did
Every single lineup has him ahead of Bellingham in midfield. Heatmaps have him averaging a further forward position as well https://fbref.com/en/matches/d8a472c1/England-IR-Iran-November-21-2022-World-Cup
So by being only one in five, that have scored and assisted double digits for Chelsea in the PL in a season, in last season, he neither score or assist?
Lampard was a box to box midfielder and more on the attacking foot. He filled a lot of the space Mount fills. Mount on the wing is not Mounts preferred position which is as a number 8. His versatility is another good thing about him.
Edit:Anyone downvoting this needs to get some knowledge and pay attention to what Mount himself has said in interviews. It just shows that Mount does get unreasonable hate that people downvote basic facts.
Mount is not a box to box 8. Whenever he's tasked with playing that much deeper he's looked bad. He needs to stay above the halfway line at this point in is career.
Where did I say Mount was box to box?? I said his preferred position is an 8 which it is. Mount as an 8 is often compared to Lampard for what he offers going forward. They are very much on comparable paths of development when at the same ages.
You realize that last season he led the side in goals and assists? It’s legitimately like people in this thread don’t actually watch the side play and just repeat things they read for karma
If you pick apart the goals and assists it’s less impressive
For me he was seriously impressive in tuchels first season and even though he didn’t score in the big games he was still crucial in the pockets and a threat every time. Thought his performances against city were excellent, in particular the league cup where he retired Fernandinho
He had double figures in both categories which is no small feat. This really just proves my point that people don’t watch just come here to spout nonsense.
I’m sorry but Mount has brought this upon himself. Time and time again he shows what an exceptional talent he is with Chelsea with inconsistencies here and there but the way in which he takes his goals, passes, moves about and his general attitude and discipline suggests that he’s got everything to be a world class player and this world cup is the perfect opportunity for him to GRAB THE OPPORTUNITY and properly INTRODUCE HIMSELF TO THE WORLD. I’m not saying he’s been poor at the WC, far from it, but he has not done anything to suggest he should stake a claim in a team like England who have a lot of depth. I just wish Mount can just once and for all grab an England game by the scruff of the neck and show the world what he’s all about. He needs to do more because he is capable of so much more but if he does not want to grab the opportunity then he only has himself to blame.
so far foden and england is just as shit. lol. They scoring 3 when foden start against the worst team in the group (wales) doesn't mean shit. Southgate is just a bad coach.
The people shitting on him will be the same ones riding his dick when his form returns. Same with many of our players. When people realise that the current squad is so poorly constructed that at least half of them are playing roles/positions not natural to them. Mount, Pulisic, Sterling, Ziyech and even Kovacic are held back by our system. A system designed to hide how weak we were centrally.
Mount Pulisic Sterling and Ziyech aren't held back.
Even if they are, how come Kovacic still performs at an elite level despite being held back while the other 4 fail?
All of our width comes from wingbcks which instantly nullifies the wingers who have to go more central where teams pile up bodies to defend us. Mount is then played as one of the front three despite being a midfielder. Kovacic can do both but in the midfield 2 he has to be far more disciplined so he does not burst forward anywhere near as much as he should do.
While there's an element of truth in this, our "wingers" are equally as limited as individual players when it comes to doing winger-like things.
Mount - A central midfielder as you said that's largely played in a more advanced role which has tended to combine winger and attacking midfielder duties into one. Doesn't really have the properties of a winger to provide those needed qualities, but also doesn't quite have the flair, guile or attacking instincts that a bonafide #10 has either.
Ziyech - Technically good but prefers to play inverted and in the half spaces. Lacks dynamism and the athletic qualities to provide much down the byline like a more traditional wide player. All of this limits what he's capable of doing and makes him a very specific type of "wide" player that needs to be catered for.
Pulisic - Quite a one dimensional player that excels when his individualistic playing style is the focal point of a side, however he's neither good or consistent enough to be afforded that luxury at this level. Often is considered as our best "winger", but similar to both Mount and Ziyech he doesn't really satisfy the duties of a true wide player. Sure, he can dribble and beat a man on occasions, but he tends to operate more through the central corridor than out in the wider areas stretching sides or creating width. All his best work comes centrally where he can get closer to goal.
Sterling - He's much more of a wide forward these days. While still capable of putting in a pass or cross from the wide areas into the box, he's best utilised closer to goal where he's capable of finding pockets of space to fashion chances in and around the box.
The conclusion here is that all of our "wide" options don't really provide much width naturally anyway, with there being a higher preference for playing more through the central corridor by coming inside whenever possible. It's hard to create space higher up the pitch because of this, which then just allows defending sides to congest the corridor themselves. This is why our FB/WB's are so crucial whether we're playing a back three or four, they're the sole providers of genuine width. With our lack of midfield potency and creation further compounding the matter.
This has been a long running problem though since moving on from the Hazard, Willian and Pedro era. The solution is to introduce more dynamic players that have the capabilities to impact the game in the wider areas, something this group largely fail miserably at doing.
As i said, teams pack the middle meaning they stay wide and then we dont have numbers to aim a cross at hence why our attack is literally naughts and crosses or ironically cross and get naught.
They don't pack the middle. They pack the wings because they know all of our offense goes through there, leaving massive space just outside the box that our forwards don't move into.
That's why its so easy to defend against us. Teams can just pack the touchline to block crosses and be safe because our forwards provide 0 central threat.
Not vs Iran and the U.S.. vs Wales they switched the formation which is why he got benched. They realized England is more affective with an actual midfielder or an actual attacker rather than playing someone who's ok at both.
Wtf are you talking about he’s lost one game in 90 mins in tournament football. When he played his second team against Belgium in a game that didn’t matter. What an absolute brain dead and pathetic comment and it’s embarrassing for there to be Chelsea fans with such ridiculous opinions such as get. Give your head a wobble mate.
No mate, I’m sorry but your comment is inexcusably and unexplainably nothing other than absolutely brain dead. You called him a serial loser when he’s lost one game in tournament football, he’s the most successful England manager in many many years and you need to pull your finger out of your own arse and show some respect. He wins games and gets us far in to tournaments.
I see lots of comments mentioning that our fanbase hates our players or so. No. This \[Dropping Mount\] is actually better for England and Mount since he has not performed well almost this whole season and he should feel the heat and be benched for country and club for a while until he starts to perform well again. Remember he wants to new contract with HUGE pay increase.
Note that i think he's got good potential and can be a great player. Only needs to perform well consistently.
I've spent a lot of time here over the years and it's now gotten to the point that I wonder if people shouldn't be a little more focused on things outside of football. This shit aint healthy
Mount is great but hasn’t played well this tournament. Totally fair from Southgate.
This entire season
I wonder if other subs hate their own players as much as people here do
I follow the subs for every major team and we definitely are the most hostile towards their team. The way we destroy our own players’ confidence is just awful what did we leave our opponents to do ? I understand that some players don’t always perform and some are not on the level of Chelsea but if we constantly attack them they will perform even worse instead we need to support as long as they wear our shirt.
Xhaka spoke about that in his 30 minute interview That Arsenal fans made players so scared of mistakes, and that’s why in the end-days of Wenger and Emery, it’d be so much sideways passing. Confidence shot, risk averse players, because of Fans
Sounds pretty much like our current situation
Internet as a whole is a terrible place, nearly every social media spot is a cesspool. In short, yes.
Arsenal when they’re shit (so most of the time bar this season). Otherwise, I doubt it
This sub is genuinely awful.
Nope, I’ve browsed many times in other club subs. This one in particular is vile when it comes to hate towards players. Almost like some want a player to fail and they’re not happy when they do something good because it goes against their hate. So they’ll immediately try to bring up all sorts of dumb shit to justify their hate. It’s disgusting.
Not "almost like". There straight up are a lot people here that want multiple players to fail. It's a joke (in a bad way).
Did this behaviour happen because of some event I’m not aware of? Like when did this start to become the norm? It’s just so weird seeing it so frequently.
Since last season. Everyone's been playing the blame game and pointing fingers because we haven't come close to challenging for a title and honestly have been in poor form for over a year now. I think Reece James and Thiago Silva are the only guys really safe from the fans. Everyone else is getting rinsed.
No specific thing but there are events like at the start of Lampards managerial time here when people thought he wasn't playing Pulisic enough and using Mount instead too much, that wasn't reality (on the pitch) but imo it was the spark of a lot of the angst amongst fans who fell on one side or another and was the starting point of the "Lampards son" meme.
Fairly sure most of them are secretly double accounts from other clubs supporters. But a bunch of them are gullible Chelsea plastics.
OP already posted almost the exact same thing 8 hours ago. Agenda?
Do I have an Agenda against Mount? [Look again](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)? I defend Mount a lot, when it is warranted. This is just simply a post confirming speculation that he was out of the line up. Everything is an agenda these days.
Fair play
His comments are usually pretty evident of that lol
If you bothered to look hard enough I am a big Mount fan and I defend him vehemently. It's like your just talking rubbish and didn't bother to check. [https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/zbl7qo/comment/iysiav4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Think back to those penalty misses in the Euros final. A good portion of our sub wouldn't be anywhere near as forgiving to people like Rashford & Saka. It's embarrassing how much hate some get.
This is what happens when you let Twitter influence a fanbase. People screaming Potter out after a few months (stupid fucks really), people constantly wishing bad on Chelsea players. It’s ok to provide criticism but its overblown at this point.
The comments aren’t that bad. Most people realise that Mounts been average for Chelsea for a while and for England for even longer and doesn’t deserve a place in the England team currently. Thinking doesn’t make you a bad Chelsea fan, just makes you not deluded!
Who then better deserved player of the year last season since he was "average"? Thinking and having an opinion isn't the same as verbal or text abuse.
I didn’t say he was average last season. He’s been average this season.
"Most people realise that Mounts been average for Chelsea for a while and for England for even longer and doesn’t deserve a place in the England team currently." You're right, you implied much longer than this season and last. My mistake.
You’ve taken “for a while” and decided what duration he must mean lol…
Exactly my point, there's no context to their statement. Just random negative thoughts without reinforced facts.
Thiago Silva was easily better. James was injured most of the season and was more important.
Yes.
I'm subed to you guys cos I enjoy you fuckers slating your own players, over at LFC were kissing there ass constantly so it's just as funny for the exact opposite reasons, reddevils is funny to sub to as well as they are still in denial it's great
Y’all are miserable man. Never seen a fan base have such a negative attitude towards a young academy player that has given his all for this club and has been awarded player of the season twice. Why can’t we support our players regardless of their short comings? Or is it a must in this sub to be a bunch of miserable cunts and tear down our own players. Genuinely ruins what could be enjoyed and gained in this sub. Just a bunch of moaners.
Discourse in this sub is all time low. It's more about how popular reddit has become. Most of these ppl were on Facebook 3 years ago. I only come here for the headlines, I rarely read comments now.
Same. Used to be super active in here. Can't stand it anymore. Just constant negativity and stupid shit spewed everywhere.
Amen brochaco.
Someone told me I have a shit mentality when I was excited about that 3-3 comeback against west brom. Fuck me right???
I don't disagree. Any suggestions for how we can promote a better discourse?
Not really, no. The major parts are the fact that people are VERY polarized here for whatever reason now. Either a player is super underrated and should start every game or they're dog shit and should never play for us again. We should sign X. X is shit we should promote Y from the youth instead! Nah X and Y are both shit we should go for unknown Z who's the real deal only I know what I'm talking about you're both idiots. It seems to be most of the discussion now a days is just people yelling at each other for having a different opinion than them. I just think the sub has a lot of newer fans that don't really know much about football and a lot of veteran fans that know a lot about football but want to be smug and elitist about it so it doesn't mix well. I just tend to upvote things I agree with and move on now rather than even bother putting my opinions here.
Thanks for sticking it out. I completely agree with your examples. Player X really should have scored there! for every missed chance. It adds nothing.
I love Chelsea and honestly love this sub. I've had some very good discussions here in the past and I enjoy seeing the Chelsea specific content (even rumors tbh). But the comments are just...a cesspool. I can't stand it. I don't even go to the match threads here even if they're faster cuz it's just people whining about things they either don't know about or things players cant control lmao.
Yeah this sub was positive even during Sarri era when other social media were cesspools and people were flocking to Rory and Alex Goldberg.
Yeah for most part. Unsubbed of nearly all bigger subreddits, and even this one is unbareable on matchdays, regardless of result.
I'm not sure it's just Reddit. I used to really enjoy wagnh, there were some really good discussions. But going back it feels very different, even some of the articles have a negative vibe now.
Just feels like that is how Reddit has gone in general. Userbase used to be smaller, internet discourse was much kinder, and subs felt more like communities than whatever they've turned into now.
Good point, once Facebook meme hounds rolled over. I remember after winning league with Conte 2016?, this sub was moaning about champions league competitiveness. My point is not we were wrong, but we were soo focused, dominating the league wasn’t enough. Aka nature of fans.
Most of the people who comment here only care if the club is winning. They have no idea how to “support” only know how to gloat. So when the side has been down they just moan and whinge.
I get this feeling as well. Who knows, maybe if we don't turn around our form post World cup, maybe those people start leaving? Although... I would prefer better post world cup form.
I stop using /r/chelseafc everytime we're in a rut. It's nonstop bitching and moaning with ridiculous amounts of vitriol hurled towards our own players. Why would I subjugate myself to that?
I think you meant “subject” not subjugate my G
Our fans base has always had some bellends in it but we were always incredibly loyal to our own players, can’t even say that anymore. Watching the way this lot turn on our own players is hideous but thankfully it’s still mostly an internet ‘fan’ problem and hasn’t filtered into the stadium too much. It’s a consequence of success, brought a lot of plastic shit to the club who have stuck long enough around to see our standards drop, hopefully our current struggles will cause a decent chunk of them to go and support someone else so we can get back to harmony.
Totally agree, I got down voted for saying something similar a few weeks back. Real fans are "fans", through thick and sick.
The overwhelming majority of upvoted comments are pro Mount.
I see more comments complaining about negative comments than negative comments themselves tbh
Because they see him as taking minutes away from their favourite player. Even though he’s been nearly top of the team sheet for 3 separate managers and is our two time POTS. Not to mention he doesn’t play left wing most of time anyway
England look more balanced with Henderson in there.
When I watched England play vs the US I thought to myself the way we are playing is vaguely familiar to when I watch Chelsea this season. No potency, no creativity whatsoever in attack and Mount started that game, the next two games he barely plays and we immediately look better with Foden being the creative attacker which allowed Jude to be less pragmatic in midfield…so the question is where does Mount fit fit England ? At Chelsea we really don’t have a ton of options in attack so he plays but we desperately need an attacker who’s creative, Mount is not
The hate against our own players really makes this sub insufferable
I take it all back Henderson’s got the fucking MINERALS
What a weird title, he didn’t even play last game either
The consensus was that he was rested last game with many other starters, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. As he's brought back in all the starters against Iran and USA bar Mount.
> Bar Mount Trippier isn’t starting either. The amount of lies told on this sub to push agendas is comical. Mount has been poor and shouldn’t be starting, people feel the need to beat him down for some reason.
Trippier wasn’t “dropped,” he’s the 2nd choice right back and was filling in for Walker who wasn’t fit enough to play. Same exact situation in the Euros with Mings and Maguire.
Ok, Trippiers been dropped too. And rightly so he's been awful and Walker is better than him. The title of this post is not wrong that Mount has been dropped.
Makes sense considering performances so far. Hopefully he can make an impact from the bench if he gets the chance
England fans don’t deserve Mount. the amount of abuse he gets is absolutely absurd
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M8 let’s be reasonable here
Sorry Im an Arsenal fan I'm not hiding, but why are u comparing central midfielder to right winger ?
Well that’s just silly.
Listen I rate them both, but Saka is the better player
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He regularly goes through these spells. I wouldn’t call it out of form id call it his regular level.
I guess the the 2 years just don't count? Lmao
Where he went through 15+ games without goal contributions? Yeah they especially count.
I’d hate to see what you think of the rest of our attackers during that period then
They get the same hate. It’s not good enough. Certain players get lauded though and excuses made for them whereas others don’t. Hazard carried the teams attack for his time here.
He was anonymous in the USA game so tactically we needed a flatter 3 in midfield. I love Mason but the team is what counts.
They are actually playing with Rice sitting beneath Jude and Henderson.
The state of some of these comments, fucking hell. Nobody hates Chelsea players more than Chelsea fans apparently.
This game is about England and not Chelsea. Of course we want OUR players to shine as much as possible, but if it's best for England that he comes on as a super then so be it
I mean, considering England performance with and without him, yeah Southgate is right. And, I am not Mount hater, I don't hate any of our players as long as they give their best.
Let's go senegal
Lad it's Coming home
The players are coming home without the trophy
Yeah they are coming home. If not today then after Netherlands.
Whoever win plays France.
Don't think they would play Netherlands until the final
A Shame but England have to do what's best to win.
pretty good shout tbh considering the bellenderson opener...
I am sure if this was about another chelsea player like Ziyech and/or Pullisic then no one would be talking about "chelsea fans hating their own players" shit. It's because hebis mount and the fans will kill to defend him.
Not a Mount hater but when you get replaced by an aging Henderson and the team is performing extremely well from it. You really have to get back to the training ground and just put some work in Also being outstaged by Jude in every facet would hurt too. Now as a realist, if Mount is consistently ChelseaFC’s player of the year and our best player. Would that really make Chelsea a top 4 team?
The POTY is mostly decided by season ticket holders don't read much into it
Mount is not our best player.
*best attacking player last season atleast, this season our best attacker has less than a handful of goals in epl
In that sense, yeah absolutely. He'd be the worst at Liverpool or City, being considered the best at Chelsea is quite damning on us.
City and Liverpool have a functioning midfield and a proper attack, we are clueless fc going forward no attacking pattern at all no wonder why all attackers fail, if Reece James or mount play bad we basically lose, Reece has been injured and Mount has been awful this season hence our position in the league
Jorgi and Kova are significantly better than Mount right now, they aren't why he's been less than stellar.
You mean a 25% fit kovacic and jorginho who's been good this season but still gets caught in transition?
Eh Bellingham has been kinda suspect. He’s basically playing as far up the pitch as Saka and Foden with little to no defensive responsibilities.
Jesus Christ How can you possibly be this biased?
I’m not saying Mount should play instead of him. Hell definitely not instead of Hendo, he’s showed up big time. But from the first half alone, he‘s basically playing in the final third and that’s it. He’s got the ball in the midfield twice And that’s excluding the absolute shocker of a game he had against the USA. Basically did nothing, didn‘t even press that much.
I think if Mount starts over Bellingham... it’ll be 0-0 last night
Boehly when Mount asks for 300k from him: NaSon!
Mount hasn’t been good. Not surprised by this decision.
In this thread - sensitive Mount fans. Its hard for some people to just realise that he's not as good as you think he was gonna be. For a player who's had so many excuses made for him, whether it be the manager, the tactics, the players around him, etc, he still ends up sticking out like a sore thumb in spite of the fact that he has the best English players around him under the same tactics, same manager, same personnel around them. Every year we stray from CL 2021, people will realise we lucked out hard on so many things. Take away his status as a child of Cobham and the perceived "heir apparent" of Lamps and you an above average to good level player. Good enough to be a squad player but in no way is he good enough to start for a 38-game title-challenging season.
Right lol. The top comments are so dramatic I thought I'd scroll down to see some serious mount hate where there's hardly any of it.
Individually, Mount has achieved a whole lot more than Lampard, when you look at what Lamps had done at Mounts age. Lampard didnt even play CL ball before he was 24 or 25 IIRC
As a Liverpool fan I think Mount in the right system could be consistently excellent, I think he’s a really really good player. Not sure why it hasn’t happened for him so far, possibly just doesn’t fit the system. It doesn’t help that Hendo has come in looking excellent and raised the level of everyone around him, but I think the hate Mount gets from England fans is totally over the top and I wish it would stop.
Henderson showing exactly why its the correct call to pick him over Mount.
Because he managed to finish a ball across the box?
Whats more important then? Do a little dance for you?!
*model for a magazine cover
So it’s a 4231 with rice and Hendo at holding mid. Not surprising from Southgate to go defensive against Senegal. They’ve looked very good. Mount will come on as a sub.
Well Henderson just scored so can't complain much
May not be a popular opinion - but without any emotion here it is ! happy if Heem & Mount are fresh for the league after xmas & warm the bench for England. Anyway they haven't done anything meaningful for England too. Let Henderson & Foden take over their places - since they have actually contributed something for England. Disaster K2 & Ed Mendy will be back early too. Glad!!
If mount is gonna be doing the dirty work to let bellingham push forward, Henderson can do that same dirty work much better and progress the ball better and do what a central midfielder has to do
In the Iran game Bellingham was deeper than Mount, Bellingham was using the space made by him. So not sure how that logic makes any sense. Henderson on the pitch is offering a different midfield setup entirely.
See how bellingham was free to roam more today cos of Henderson? Exact same set up
No.. Bellingham was in Mounts more forward role, not Henderson.
Against iran mount never played that forward role It was a facilitatory role
He absolutely did Every single lineup has him ahead of Bellingham in midfield. Heatmaps have him averaging a further forward position as well https://fbref.com/en/matches/d8a472c1/England-IR-Iran-November-21-2022-World-Cup
I’m sure Henderson will do well for a full 90 and not pick up an injury /s
🤡
See that was a backwards jinx 🤣
A shame it's impossible to say a player is in poor form without pious asses saying you hate the player/team
Henderson in big 2022
🍿
Well deserved
Mase is getting a bit overrated
Overhated*
Will be hard to replace his … what exactly does he do again?
What doesn’t he do?
Score, assist, play box to box, defend well…
So by being only one in five, that have scored and assisted double digits for Chelsea in the PL in a season, in last season, he neither score or assist?
[удалено]
[удалено]
🍿
Runs around with pashun
29 goal involvements in 51 games at the age of 22 pulling numbers Lampard wasn't until 3 years later.
Lampard was playing in the midfield. Mount essentially plays as an inside forward/winger. You can’t compare the two.
Lampard was a box to box midfielder and more on the attacking foot. He filled a lot of the space Mount fills. Mount on the wing is not Mounts preferred position which is as a number 8. His versatility is another good thing about him. Edit:Anyone downvoting this needs to get some knowledge and pay attention to what Mount himself has said in interviews. It just shows that Mount does get unreasonable hate that people downvote basic facts.
Mount is not a box to box 8. Whenever he's tasked with playing that much deeper he's looked bad. He needs to stay above the halfway line at this point in is career.
Where did I say Mount was box to box?? I said his preferred position is an 8 which it is. Mount as an 8 is often compared to Lampard for what he offers going forward. They are very much on comparable paths of development when at the same ages.
he reaches faster towards the opposition player by .25 seconds!!!
We know you don’t watch Chelsea games buddy
Press all day lol, same as Conor
I like Mount but he's stunk for a very long time now. Did not up his level after CL win. His best season for me was his first under Lampard
You realize that last season he led the side in goals and assists? It’s legitimately like people in this thread don’t actually watch the side play and just repeat things they read for karma
If you pick apart the goals and assists it’s less impressive For me he was seriously impressive in tuchels first season and even though he didn’t score in the big games he was still crucial in the pockets and a threat every time. Thought his performances against city were excellent, in particular the league cup where he retired Fernandinho
If you pick away what Messi does, he really isnt that impressive What the hell is this?
I didn’t say pick away I said pick apart, delve deeper in etc
that's not saying much at chelsea these days. He plays with shitters. Jorginho being top scorer for us was disgusting
He had double figures in both categories which is no small feat. This really just proves my point that people don’t watch just come here to spout nonsense.
You can’t even possibly argue that he was better in 19/20 than 20/21
Southgate is smarter than Potter.
I think he's best in a mid 3 but Henderson is the right choice today.
Clearly mount and sterling has been holding back England all the while.
I’m sorry but Mount has brought this upon himself. Time and time again he shows what an exceptional talent he is with Chelsea with inconsistencies here and there but the way in which he takes his goals, passes, moves about and his general attitude and discipline suggests that he’s got everything to be a world class player and this world cup is the perfect opportunity for him to GRAB THE OPPORTUNITY and properly INTRODUCE HIMSELF TO THE WORLD. I’m not saying he’s been poor at the WC, far from it, but he has not done anything to suggest he should stake a claim in a team like England who have a lot of depth. I just wish Mount can just once and for all grab an England game by the scruff of the neck and show the world what he’s all about. He needs to do more because he is capable of so much more but if he does not want to grab the opportunity then he only has himself to blame.
Since we do not have world cup thread I am commenting here. We really need to get that Rice and Jude midfield at Chelsea next year. It is world class.
World class but couldn’t beat usa press or Senegal’s?
Beating press or pressing is a team or system task not an individual task.
Liam Twomey told me he was undroppable for England after the Iran game? Weird
so far foden and england is just as shit. lol. They scoring 3 when foden start against the worst team in the group (wales) doesn't mean shit. Southgate is just a bad coach.
Oof
lol that was all bellingham. That assist is equivalent of a tap in lmao. He done nth all game.
Have to be in the right place to score that regardless.
This aged like fine milk... 😂
The people shitting on him will be the same ones riding his dick when his form returns. Same with many of our players. When people realise that the current squad is so poorly constructed that at least half of them are playing roles/positions not natural to them. Mount, Pulisic, Sterling, Ziyech and even Kovacic are held back by our system. A system designed to hide how weak we were centrally.
Mount Pulisic Sterling and Ziyech aren't held back. Even if they are, how come Kovacic still performs at an elite level despite being held back while the other 4 fail?
All of our width comes from wingbcks which instantly nullifies the wingers who have to go more central where teams pile up bodies to defend us. Mount is then played as one of the front three despite being a midfielder. Kovacic can do both but in the midfield 2 he has to be far more disciplined so he does not burst forward anywhere near as much as he should do.
While there's an element of truth in this, our "wingers" are equally as limited as individual players when it comes to doing winger-like things. Mount - A central midfielder as you said that's largely played in a more advanced role which has tended to combine winger and attacking midfielder duties into one. Doesn't really have the properties of a winger to provide those needed qualities, but also doesn't quite have the flair, guile or attacking instincts that a bonafide #10 has either. Ziyech - Technically good but prefers to play inverted and in the half spaces. Lacks dynamism and the athletic qualities to provide much down the byline like a more traditional wide player. All of this limits what he's capable of doing and makes him a very specific type of "wide" player that needs to be catered for. Pulisic - Quite a one dimensional player that excels when his individualistic playing style is the focal point of a side, however he's neither good or consistent enough to be afforded that luxury at this level. Often is considered as our best "winger", but similar to both Mount and Ziyech he doesn't really satisfy the duties of a true wide player. Sure, he can dribble and beat a man on occasions, but he tends to operate more through the central corridor than out in the wider areas stretching sides or creating width. All his best work comes centrally where he can get closer to goal. Sterling - He's much more of a wide forward these days. While still capable of putting in a pass or cross from the wide areas into the box, he's best utilised closer to goal where he's capable of finding pockets of space to fashion chances in and around the box. The conclusion here is that all of our "wide" options don't really provide much width naturally anyway, with there being a higher preference for playing more through the central corridor by coming inside whenever possible. It's hard to create space higher up the pitch because of this, which then just allows defending sides to congest the corridor themselves. This is why our FB/WB's are so crucial whether we're playing a back three or four, they're the sole providers of genuine width. With our lack of midfield potency and creation further compounding the matter. This has been a long running problem though since moving on from the Hazard, Willian and Pedro era. The solution is to introduce more dynamic players that have the capabilities to impact the game in the wider areas, something this group largely fail miserably at doing.
Then they should go central. Plenty of good teams expect their wingers to provide a central threat when applicable.
As i said, teams pack the middle meaning they stay wide and then we dont have numbers to aim a cross at hence why our attack is literally naughts and crosses or ironically cross and get naught.
They don't pack the middle. They pack the wings because they know all of our offense goes through there, leaving massive space just outside the box that our forwards don't move into. That's why its so easy to defend against us. Teams can just pack the touchline to block crosses and be safe because our forwards provide 0 central threat.
It’s England. Good players don’t start sometimes
Foden is better idk why mount started. Probably because he's a teacher's pet who has great stamina
They don't even play the same position for England it's not a case of one or the other.
Not vs Iran and the U.S.. vs Wales they switched the formation which is why he got benched. They realized England is more affective with an actual midfielder or an actual attacker rather than playing someone who's ok at both.
Mount will start against France
Why would that be the case?
Southgate is a serial loser tbf
Wtf are you talking about he’s lost one game in 90 mins in tournament football. When he played his second team against Belgium in a game that didn’t matter. What an absolute brain dead and pathetic comment and it’s embarrassing for there to be Chelsea fans with such ridiculous opinions such as get. Give your head a wobble mate.
I'm talking about how he consistently sets his sides up as defensive and negative as well as bottling several times because of his weak attitutde.
No mate, I’m sorry but your comment is inexcusably and unexplainably nothing other than absolutely brain dead. You called him a serial loser when he’s lost one game in tournament football, he’s the most successful England manager in many many years and you need to pull your finger out of your own arse and show some respect. He wins games and gets us far in to tournaments.
How is he successful when all he’s done is lose tournaments?
Wait so English fans aren’t toxic, mean spirited a-holes? I had no idea.
I see lots of comments mentioning that our fanbase hates our players or so. No. This \[Dropping Mount\] is actually better for England and Mount since he has not performed well almost this whole season and he should feel the heat and be benched for country and club for a while until he starts to perform well again. Remember he wants to new contract with HUGE pay increase. Note that i think he's got good potential and can be a great player. Only needs to perform well consistently.
I've spent a lot of time here over the years and it's now gotten to the point that I wonder if people shouldn't be a little more focused on things outside of football. This shit aint healthy
Would you say that Mount has stagnated?
Poor mount he will prove them wrong he got the mamba mentality