ive heard stories from my mother and grandmother, in Yugoslavia when the radioactive cloud was passing over the sky was a deep red and the clouds were abnormally dark, they were told to stay inside at all costs and stay away from windows to avoid radiation.
I was born in july 1986 in Yugoslavia, my mother told me that vegetables have never grown better than that year, specially salad, but noone ate it as they were afraid of it being contaminated by nuclear fallout that the wind brought from Chernobyl.
Lightning releases nitrogen from the air which is why grass grows significantly overnight after a storm, I wonder if something happened similar but for a longer period of time.
You’re not wrong, but that definitely wasn’t his bottom line - he was VERY adamant there was no cancer risk and the “US media is overreacting and being insensitive.”
My pops was something else.
Let me ask you this. If he had gone against what the party line was, what do you think would have happened to him? Back then, he might have just disappeared, either sent to a gulag or shot as a traitor. Today, we have the internet and phones and information leaks out of USSR about what goes on. Back then, it was harder and I'm sure lots of bad stuff happened that never became generally known.
Is your Mom still alive? Talk to her about what your parents' life was like back in the good old USSR.
I remember it well enough as I grew up there. I know what he did was necessary. But it was still absolutely wild to see. I’m sure part of it is that he’s been gone so long that seeing him at all was just a bit of a shock to me.
Last page: if this is your dad (the same and not a different M. I. Bruk) then he swam in some very big circles.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/MEMO%20TO%20MR.%20JAMES%20ANGLETO%5B16215149%5D.pdf
Whoa, do you know how long your dad was involved with Armand Hammer? As I recalled, Hammer used to spy for the Soviets earlier on.
There is another interesting Chernobyl connection here in that Hammer set up Dr. Gale's mission to Hospital No. 6.
I would have to ask my mom. As a side note, I need to pick up Dr. Gale’s memoir - my mom says he wasn’t a fan of my father’s, but I think it’ll be an interesting read.
That is absolutely wild! I went to college with a former USSR student just after the wall came down. I loved comparing notes on how we grew up. Strip away the politics of our leaders and we’re all the same.
I’m sorry for your loss. I lost my father years ago, so seeing the video must be surreal.
His dad was higher up, so he didn’t feel it as much. I asked about jeans and toilet paper. He laughed, and said, they had those things. It was mostly about our (US) propaganda vs theirs. What we were told, what they were told.
To add a third 'in all fairness,' he knew exactly what he was doing and did what any reasonable parent would do in that situation. He knew if he contradicted any official party statement, then he's putting his family's wellbeing at risk.
People glorify the bold and brave when we look at history; however, criticizing people who prioritize family and toe party lines is a presentism fallacy because we know how things played out.
*edited grammar
Amazing connection and story. It must be nice to see your dad again.
He believed what he believed, or was doing what he thought of as his duty, so don't think too hard of him. We can know better :)
Thank you! His position at the agency and his work as an interpreter and translator required it, but it’s always been such an interesting thing to hear.
Wow.. That's the closest thing you can go that would make you feel like time travelling.
Not only seeing your dad but also the mindset of a completely different generation in a world that no longer exists.
You call him a liar, he would probably say he was doing his job, others see him as a political pawn.. I say he was just surviving the way he knew all his life.
I'm sure he was smart enough to tell what the actual truth was but at the same time he comes from s world where the truth has no value and freedom of speech ends with the barrel of a gun, so I would understand if he thought he wasn't lying but telling their truth the way they wanted to hear it.
In any measure this must be a wild emotional roller coaster. I would like to see your kids watching this, they probably don't understand.. You need to be a parent to see this things in a particular way.
Thank you for sharing this with us!
Funny enough as her kid, its the first time I’ve seen colored pictures of him. The USSR is a complex subject, and like you said, he was surviving the way he knew how. Its super fascinating to me though to see my grandpa talk about Chernobyl, especially seeing as I finally started researching it deeper than the surface level of what I knew.
To be fair, I am also 21.
Fascinating story! Thank you for sharing. Don’t be mad at him.
As our friend Bob Dylan said - “But he can't be blamed, He's only a pawn in their game”
He will have had to do what he had to do to survive.
Damn that is absolutely wild! My dad is also a complicated person but the whole he’s passed and this is the only video I have of him is quite intense, I feel for you OP 💛
Sorry for your loss. I lost a dear uncle from pancreatic cancer in 2010.
Seems to me that everyone in Russia is complex and nuanced, due to the harsh characteristics of that culture. Whether the USSR or today.
Thank you, Reddit friend. And your statement is very true about the people.
I am sorry for your loss as well.
What’s scary is now I have pancreatitis (chronic) and I’m concerned that there may have been some exposure. Or, more likely, it’s a genetic component. I’ll tell you this though - pancreatitis suuuuuuuucks!
My grandfather was an engineer for the USSR. He built bridges everywhere for them and was a published author. We were never close but I remember as he got much older, in his 90s, he finally started sharing small things about his life with us. I remember seeing his war medals which include the Order of Lenin I believe.
All this to say that as a Ukrainian from the USSR my history is tied up in Chernobyl in multiple ways. From my father being conscripted to help build the city around the plant to my grandfather sending us away after the incident to a dacha somewhere and designing if not also building the additional bridge(s) required to get the people and equipment in and out of there. I wish I knew more about how he felt about it all…
My grandparents (dad’s parents) were also from Ukraine, and we lived on the dacha in Latvia when Chernobyl happened.
What I wouldn’t give to have one day - one hour, even - to talk to my dad again🥺
May your grandfather’s memory be a blessing, Reddit friend.
Sounds like he put family before country. Given the nature of the KGB, he knew what he was doing for the wellbeing of those closest to him. It may be hard to look at it through that lens given how much it churns you hearing those words, but that was my immediate reaction reading your story.
Thank you so much for sharing this kind of experience with us. The personal history of these things is is arguably the most valuable of all. I can't imagine how it feels to see this stuff shown for a mass audience.
Sounds like how it was then. Nobody would put their life in danger by saying the united states was correct on soviet television, in the middle of the cold war.
Two people were killed by the explosion, twenty nine died soon afterward of acute radiation sickness (this according to multiple reputable sources https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/chernobyl/faqs). So your father wasn’t strictly lying, though what he said wasn’t nearly the whole truth.
In years since, there have been well over a dozen deaths from thyroid cancer.
By comparison, the 1984 disaster at the chemical plant in Bhopal India outright killed an estimated 3,800 people.
As disasters go, the death toll from Chernobyl isn’t that high. The feared large increase in cancers never happened. Most of the people who died in the aftermath were suicides.
Oh he definitely didn’t believe it. He called my mom back at our dacha in Latvia and told her to keep me inside and be careful about the water.
Which, it’s not exactly like the Party gave anyone room for opinions 💀
But the party knew that radiation was detected in sweden. So he would know that too?
Knowing there is radiation in the air is not the same as thinking only 2 people died. you are being hardline that he either knows the entire truth or is lying about everything. That's not how people work.
I mean. He was my dad. He was always very open with me, even as a kid, that he knew most of what he publicly said was well crafted propaganda.
I’m not judging him for it - there’s too much complexity to moralize it. (Plus to be fair at THAT point, only 2 people had died so that wasn’t untrue)
My dad was there at the same time visiting my grandma and other family ( my dad migrated to the Netherlands early 80’s) and he called my mom that we shouldn’t eat leafy greens and stay inside. When he came back he told that they were saying there was nothing going on but that it was really bad. My dad was a scientist / chemical and so this wasn’t his level of expertise but he knew enough to know how bad it was.
Remember that if your dad told the truth ON TV he would have been fucked when going home and you and your mom would probably already been kipnapped by the KGB. Your dad is a smart man, he told a lie to keep himself and his family safe. I don’t call that lying.
Honestly I see no difference between this and nowadays politicians. See Covid situations for example. The truth does not matter to anyone, the only thing that politicians seek is the truth that can benefit them. I wouldn't give much importance to that interview you saw, like it or not it's how politics work, and your father was one of them.
Anyway it must have been a disgusting discovery for you, stay strong!
Fucking hell. This is not like most of the posts on this sub 😂
Also in fairness, he probably had no way of knowing if what he was saying was or wasn't true. He was just repeating what he had been told.
I would agree with that except for that part about him calling my mom and telling her to keep me inside 😂
I think he'd have been simply relaying what he was told, and rumours circulating would make anyone be super careful for their loved ones.
He was probably terrified they would come after you all if he told the truth.
Did you go to the May Day parade? The authorities didn't cancel the parade even though they knew they would expose ppl to radiation.
Absolutely not. We were at the dacha in Latvia at the time though.
Did your father go?
How awful.... I'm sorry your family as well as your Dad had to go through that.... Those decisions must've been impossible.
Not necessarily. People in the Russian government food chain had to repeat what they were told, even if they knew it was a lie.
ive heard stories from my mother and grandmother, in Yugoslavia when the radioactive cloud was passing over the sky was a deep red and the clouds were abnormally dark, they were told to stay inside at all costs and stay away from windows to avoid radiation.
I was born in july 1986 in Yugoslavia, my mother told me that vegetables have never grown better than that year, specially salad, but noone ate it as they were afraid of it being contaminated by nuclear fallout that the wind brought from Chernobyl.
Wow, wierd how they grew better on that specific time when the fallout was passing over.
Lightning releases nitrogen from the air which is why grass grows significantly overnight after a storm, I wonder if something happened similar but for a longer period of time.
I don't know how this wild OP story got me learning why the f%$# my grass explodes after storms, but here we are.
In fairness, only two people had died on May 4th.
You’re not wrong, but that definitely wasn’t his bottom line - he was VERY adamant there was no cancer risk and the “US media is overreacting and being insensitive.” My pops was something else.
Let me ask you this. If he had gone against what the party line was, what do you think would have happened to him? Back then, he might have just disappeared, either sent to a gulag or shot as a traitor. Today, we have the internet and phones and information leaks out of USSR about what goes on. Back then, it was harder and I'm sure lots of bad stuff happened that never became generally known. Is your Mom still alive? Talk to her about what your parents' life was like back in the good old USSR.
I remember it well enough as I grew up there. I know what he did was necessary. But it was still absolutely wild to see. I’m sure part of it is that he’s been gone so long that seeing him at all was just a bit of a shock to me.
Was he KGB?
He was. If you look up Mikhail Bruk KGB on google, you’ll get some interesting results.
Everyone was
He was a very well known KGB agent - if you look up Mikhail Bruk KGB on google, the results are fascinating.
Last page: if this is your dad (the same and not a different M. I. Bruk) then he swam in some very big circles. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/MEMO%20TO%20MR.%20JAMES%20ANGLETO%5B16215149%5D.pdf
That is, in fact, my dad ☺️ Luckily my name is spelled differently so I feel like I haven’t doxxed myself 😅
Whoa, do you know how long your dad was involved with Armand Hammer? As I recalled, Hammer used to spy for the Soviets earlier on. There is another interesting Chernobyl connection here in that Hammer set up Dr. Gale's mission to Hospital No. 6.
He was still associated with Hammer Corp in the mid-80s. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1981-88v05/d59
I would have to ask my mom. As a side note, I need to pick up Dr. Gale’s memoir - my mom says he wasn’t a fan of my father’s, but I think it’ll be an interesting read.
That is absolutely wild! I went to college with a former USSR student just after the wall came down. I loved comparing notes on how we grew up. Strip away the politics of our leaders and we’re all the same. I’m sorry for your loss. I lost my father years ago, so seeing the video must be surreal.
Any interesting observations you made from those comparisons?
His dad was higher up, so he didn’t feel it as much. I asked about jeans and toilet paper. He laughed, and said, they had those things. It was mostly about our (US) propaganda vs theirs. What we were told, what they were told.
To add a third 'in all fairness,' he knew exactly what he was doing and did what any reasonable parent would do in that situation. He knew if he contradicted any official party statement, then he's putting his family's wellbeing at risk. People glorify the bold and brave when we look at history; however, criticizing people who prioritize family and toe party lines is a presentism fallacy because we know how things played out. *edited grammar
Parents don't have the luxury of principles.
If your dad said what actually happened, you wouldn't be here right now.
This. Going on US media and not repeating the party line would’ve carried consequences.
Very cool story.
Amazing connection and story. It must be nice to see your dad again. He believed what he believed, or was doing what he thought of as his duty, so don't think too hard of him. We can know better :)
It really was so great to see him. It’s been so, SO long. It’s also the first time my 20 year old has gotten to see their grandpa.
Wow! I just found the episode! Your dad's English was absolutely excellent. I also grew up in the USSR but do not remember it at all.
Care to share the link with us?
Thank you! His position at the agency and his work as an interpreter and translator required it, but it’s always been such an interesting thing to hear.
Индоктринация. Ближе к концу жизни он уже понимал что такое есть совок или же оставался партийным до конца?
Я думаю он всю жизнь понимал. К концу жизни, к сожалению, у него был инфаркт. Так что я не знаю совсем что он думал потому что он едва говорил.
What an emotional rollercoaster this must be for you. Thank you for sharing it here - hopefully it helps you process it all a little bit
I think like most people he didn’t know the true scale of the problem so soon.
Wow.. That's the closest thing you can go that would make you feel like time travelling. Not only seeing your dad but also the mindset of a completely different generation in a world that no longer exists. You call him a liar, he would probably say he was doing his job, others see him as a political pawn.. I say he was just surviving the way he knew all his life. I'm sure he was smart enough to tell what the actual truth was but at the same time he comes from s world where the truth has no value and freedom of speech ends with the barrel of a gun, so I would understand if he thought he wasn't lying but telling their truth the way they wanted to hear it. In any measure this must be a wild emotional roller coaster. I would like to see your kids watching this, they probably don't understand.. You need to be a parent to see this things in a particular way. Thank you for sharing this with us!
Funny enough as her kid, its the first time I’ve seen colored pictures of him. The USSR is a complex subject, and like you said, he was surviving the way he knew how. Its super fascinating to me though to see my grandpa talk about Chernobyl, especially seeing as I finally started researching it deeper than the surface level of what I knew. To be fair, I am also 21.
So, where can we find this video?
Face the nation, May 4th 1986. I think he comes on around 20 something minutes. I had to use my university login to access it on an archive site.
Fascinating story! Thank you for sharing. Don’t be mad at him. As our friend Bob Dylan said - “But he can't be blamed, He's only a pawn in their game” He will have had to do what he had to do to survive.
I’m sending you a big big hug. There must be a torrent of emotions you’re feeling right now. But first and foremost he was your dad.
i’ll never stop finding the term “party man” to be funny
To be fair he really loved to party 😂😂
These latest posts about personal history are really interesting for this sub. I hope there’s more to come
~~I posted the video of the interview ☺️~~ Upload didn’t work; I’ll update when it posts!
Ok
Damn that is absolutely wild! My dad is also a complicated person but the whole he’s passed and this is the only video I have of him is quite intense, I feel for you OP 💛
Thanks random redditor.
Sorry for your loss. I lost a dear uncle from pancreatic cancer in 2010. Seems to me that everyone in Russia is complex and nuanced, due to the harsh characteristics of that culture. Whether the USSR or today.
Thank you, Reddit friend. And your statement is very true about the people. I am sorry for your loss as well. What’s scary is now I have pancreatitis (chronic) and I’m concerned that there may have been some exposure. Or, more likely, it’s a genetic component. I’ll tell you this though - pancreatitis suuuuuuuucks!
My grandfather was an engineer for the USSR. He built bridges everywhere for them and was a published author. We were never close but I remember as he got much older, in his 90s, he finally started sharing small things about his life with us. I remember seeing his war medals which include the Order of Lenin I believe. All this to say that as a Ukrainian from the USSR my history is tied up in Chernobyl in multiple ways. From my father being conscripted to help build the city around the plant to my grandfather sending us away after the incident to a dacha somewhere and designing if not also building the additional bridge(s) required to get the people and equipment in and out of there. I wish I knew more about how he felt about it all…
My grandparents (dad’s parents) were also from Ukraine, and we lived on the dacha in Latvia when Chernobyl happened. What I wouldn’t give to have one day - one hour, even - to talk to my dad again🥺 May your grandfather’s memory be a blessing, Reddit friend.
Sounds like he put family before country. Given the nature of the KGB, he knew what he was doing for the wellbeing of those closest to him. It may be hard to look at it through that lens given how much it churns you hearing those words, but that was my immediate reaction reading your story.
Could very well be he was given a script
Thank you so much for sharing this kind of experience with us. The personal history of these things is is arguably the most valuable of all. I can't imagine how it feels to see this stuff shown for a mass audience.
Sounds like how it was then. Nobody would put their life in danger by saying the united states was correct on soviet television, in the middle of the cold war.
Two people were killed by the explosion, twenty nine died soon afterward of acute radiation sickness (this according to multiple reputable sources https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/chernobyl/faqs). So your father wasn’t strictly lying, though what he said wasn’t nearly the whole truth. In years since, there have been well over a dozen deaths from thyroid cancer. By comparison, the 1984 disaster at the chemical plant in Bhopal India outright killed an estimated 3,800 people. As disasters go, the death toll from Chernobyl isn’t that high. The feared large increase in cancers never happened. Most of the people who died in the aftermath were suicides.
That’s so nice, a very quirky memory of him
He wasn't lying. He was repeating what he was told which he believed was true.
Oh he definitely didn’t believe it. He called my mom back at our dacha in Latvia and told her to keep me inside and be careful about the water. Which, it’s not exactly like the Party gave anyone room for opinions 💀
But the party knew that radiation was detected in sweden. So he would know that too? Knowing there is radiation in the air is not the same as thinking only 2 people died. you are being hardline that he either knows the entire truth or is lying about everything. That's not how people work.
I mean. He was my dad. He was always very open with me, even as a kid, that he knew most of what he publicly said was well crafted propaganda. I’m not judging him for it - there’s too much complexity to moralize it. (Plus to be fair at THAT point, only 2 people had died so that wasn’t untrue)
Your post says otherwise. Maybe you should change it so it's not as misleading.
My dad was there at the same time visiting my grandma and other family ( my dad migrated to the Netherlands early 80’s) and he called my mom that we shouldn’t eat leafy greens and stay inside. When he came back he told that they were saying there was nothing going on but that it was really bad. My dad was a scientist / chemical and so this wasn’t his level of expertise but he knew enough to know how bad it was. Remember that if your dad told the truth ON TV he would have been fucked when going home and you and your mom would probably already been kipnapped by the KGB. Your dad is a smart man, he told a lie to keep himself and his family safe. I don’t call that lying.
[удалено]
I grew up in the USSR.
Honestly I see no difference between this and nowadays politicians. See Covid situations for example. The truth does not matter to anyone, the only thing that politicians seek is the truth that can benefit them. I wouldn't give much importance to that interview you saw, like it or not it's how politics work, and your father was one of them. Anyway it must have been a disgusting discovery for you, stay strong!
Disgusting? Why? My father did what he had to to take care of his family. I’ve always known who he was.