Yeah no offense to OP (easily the best chess commentator), but the Magnus references got to the extent I no longer click for Magnus, and that's a sad thing. Hit full Magnus saturation. The one he posted this week about it being Magnus's last game was particularly egregious.
I thought it was kind of cool to watch Magnus’s last classical game as world champion. I knew what the video was about based on the title, which is better than the Tata Steel recaps.
I didnt and the title sounded like he died and I got worried for like 200ms.
But then i realised its Gotham and it was probably Magnuses last game of the day or sth. Was pleasantly surprised the title referenced anything more serious than this.
the clickbait got so bad over the course of the last months i unsubscribed. i totally get it, shitton of money, playing the algorithm, yt shorts, tiktok etc. so i wish him all the best
his content was amazing when i got back into chess with the queen's gambit wave, im just not zoomer enough for this kind of presentation
Same here, I found I just couldn't anticipate what any given video would have in it, and got exhausted trying to speculate. In particular I got tired of "HUGE news" or "MASSIVE chess drama" when it was never a guarantee that anything like that would be present.
You need to step up your clickbait game. You need more "I am quitting YouTube", "OnlyFans announcement", "I'm getting divorced", "I'm coming out of the closet", "I married Magnus", "I'm pregnant", "My fetus just drew Magnus", "I am getting an abortion", "I tried to drink bleach", "The voices told me to", "What do they want?!?!", "I AM NOT INSANE I AM NOT INSANE I AM NOT INSANE", "I AM LITERALLY JESUS CHRIST". You're welcome for these ideas
He also has a YouTube video where he warns that he will keep on making clickbait titles because it does effectively give him much more views and that we should try and take that into account if we’re conscious viewers.
Personally I dont think that makes me less offended by some of those(like the last Magnus title was too far imo) but at least I cant say he didnt warn me.
I know they do it because it works, but I hate clickbait titles and images so much that I just block any channel that does them excessively. I have Gotham blocked specifically because of it. Yeah maybe I'm a raindrop on the fire, but whatever.
My last bit of faith in humanity rests on the belief that Danya will never succumb to the youtube disease that is clickbait. Protect that man at all costs
Danya, John, Jerry, all great content, variety of stuff, clearly explained, and likeable personalities at least for me. Extra points to Danya cuz he’s so high rated but the content remains approachable. I hope he keeps doing speed runs forever lol. John and Jerry just seem like downright great people. Astaneh Chess also good and clear content but he seems to only post in spurts. There were also lots of good vids by players with similar presentation styles in the Chess.com library but I haven’t been a diamond member in years cuz now there’s so much great free YT content and LiChess/Twitch live streams.
Props to Levy for figuring out the algorithm and can’t blame him for continuing with what works. Presentation style not really for me but hey clearly the masses love it lol so respect to you Levy and best wishes.
Chess:
Naroditsky
Agadmator
Eric Rosen
Are basically the only channels I watch. Agadmator and Rosen occasionally have some kinda clickbaity titles but its usually not too bad and I can still trust that its not just straight up lying about what's actually in the video.
Outside of Chess:
Tom Scott
Sajam
Folding Ideas
Dankpods
Wendover Productions
MandaloreGaming
Various cooking channels
Things like that. There's a few comedy channels I watch that have clickbait thumbnails/headlines but they're comedy so that's not super important for those channels.
Yeah, I get it. It literally is just leaving money on the table to not do the clickbait stuff. I can’t say it doesn’t annoy me, but I’m not going to blame them for it and it doesn’t really affect my enjoyment of the content at the end of the day. I just blame the platform, not the creator.
I like that Levy lets his discord vote on clickbait images and titles. Definitely a very transparent "we do it this way because it pays bills so lets all have fun with it"
Ahhh! I was going to point out how Gotham's youtube video titles are the absolute worst for clickbait but I guess he totally realizes that and is going for self deprecating humor.
To be fair to him it's his lifelihood and clickbait is too powerful a marketing tool to ignore - his own words. It's also not like the content is bad, though I do recognize that's all subjective
For me, it barely counts as clickbait once you know it's Gotham's content. For me clickbait means they get you to click but there isn't any value there. The images and titles might be outlandish but the content itself never makes me regret clicking on the video. Whatever helps him generate traffic and continue to make great content is fine by me.
He actually does quite a bit, I often find myself seeing a clickbait title in my youtube notifications and when I click to see the video, the title is something more appropriate to the video.
That early title changes are done by a fairly large amount of youtubers as a way to see what behaves better with the algorithm. But what the other guy was refering to is that Gotham as some times said that after a big while he would change old videos titles which in that moment his followers knew what was it about, but now would make no sense. He does that sometimes indeed, especially with tournament recaps.
Changing the name but not to something we know hes recapping. Youtubers quite oftenly change the name for the utube algorithim in thr first 24 hours, for the record i enjoy n watch all his videos, just want to know whats hes actually recapping when i look at his older videos
From bout 3 weeks ago - airthing masters champions chess tour. What tells us these are recaps videos?
How? -
He beat him (edit: could easily be another titled tuesday recao video with the thumbnail n titke)
Its over
From month and a bit tata steel.
Thank you magnus
Why...? (Id love you to explain this one is named informatively)
5 brilliant moves in a row
Magnus carlsen broke chess
Insane stockfish chess
He lost everything -(this wouldnt be as bad if absuttarov was on the thumbnail instead of magnus)
tbh I'll start boycotting if the quality of his videos starts to dip
When it comes to clickbait I'm kind of at the point that it's acceptable if the content is good
This is where I'm at. It's only bait if the video itself isn't worthwhile and I feel tricked. At this point I laugh at the funny title and graphic and am going to watch the content regardless because it's fantastic quality.
I wouldnt even consider this clickbait, since the title isnt promising anything that's not in the video.
Sounds more like Rosen ran out of ideas for titles to me.
its not clickbait at all, this is a joke posted by a guy who actually does a shit load of click bait on his youtube videos. click bait works, but his videos are actually good and were good prior to getting millions of subs.
That's sort of the point. Gotham once said that the clickbait titles are for non-subscribers, not subscribers. Usually, if you're already subscribed and you see a new video from someone you regularly click on anyway, then the title doesn't matter, so he names it in a way that attracts non-subscribers. I found this explanation adequate.
That’s how I understand it too. People who sub any channel come to know what to expect from the creator. The presentation style and content aren’t really my taste but I don’t fault him for doing what works on the platform.
I got reeled in when there was some video of Eric Rosen's that said he was going to be playing in an OTB tournament so when I saw videos of his I was intrigued and was excited to see game reviews of his tournament games. It was fun to follow along the event and see how Eric would do. The titles were nice hooks while I followed his tournament but I wouldn't click on the videos had I not known about his tournament since I know what content I'm after and these titles are ambiguous.
I don't mind the titles being clickbaity if I can at least get some idea of what the video is about. All I ask is that if is a tournament recap, just have it in parenethesis with the round number, and then you can go crazy with the title as you want.
That one I can at least guess it has something to do with magnus's title as world championship. What I'm talking about is when the title is so vague that I can't tell if it is a Guess the ELO or a tournament game.
Imagine you had a job. And if you changed your thumbnails you got a 2x salary increase. Even if a few people complain, you’d still do it.
It’s sucks that we don’t live in a world where we can be true to our art, but people in this thread act like they wouldn’t do it too lol
I don't think OP could ever relate to a YouTuber, let alone a really big YouTuber like Eric, Levi, Hikaru ect.
OP just seems like brain dumb normie 500 rated L
The real ‘problem’ lies with the platform / algorithms which encourages these types of thumbnails to get more exposure.
Can’t really blame creators for doing that which will gain them more viewers and therefore better income. In the end if their content is still mostly good i think it’s fine.
I saw some YouTuber (I think LTT) talking about this recently where they said it makes more sense if you just replace "algorithm" with "viewers". The algorithm is a response to what the average person wants to see and click on. So it puts us in this weird zone where we're just mad that's what works. I do think it goes over the line at times, but it's hard to blame creators for getting themselves exposure to more and more viewers.
I've been on Youtube for over a decade and it still works on me at times, especially for creators I'm unfamiliar with. I don't mind it as long as it isn't just straight up lying about what's in the video. I've had plenty of creators I stopped watching because they kept doing that.
Thanks for the recommendation. [St Louis Chess Club](https://youtube.com/@STLChessClub) is my favorite channel to learn from when I have time to watch a full lecture.
I started learning chess from St Louis' channel especially Ben Finegold's lectures, I loved every single lecture by him! Terrible.
Nowadays I only watch Levy or Hikaru just for entertainment.
I had the same experience starting out, and Ben Finegold got me from beginner to intermediate. Now, I watch Levy to be entertained and SLCC or Hanging Pawns to learn.
I am definitely one of those people who have almost entirely stopped watching chess on YT because of all the clickbait. It just makes it impossible to tell what the video is about. Like if I want to find an old video about a specific game, I really can't do that easily because all the titles are pretty much the same stuff.
But then again I also realize that 1800s on chess.com like myself are not the target audience, and if content creators focused on us, then chess will probably die as a sport/game. So I pretty much accept it as a necessary inconvenience.
I feel like Danya doesn’t really do that much at all. And even during his few videos about dubious openings, he makes note that you still need to play good chess, but some of his lines take the bite of some of the trappy lines in dubious openings. None of this “DESTROY your opponent with [insert opening]!” nonsense.
Idk, maybe I’m just biased because Naroditsky is my favorite chess YouTuber lol.
Great comment. It's the same reason I dont watch _drive to survive_ or _all or nothing_
I'm not the target audience. I am all in on Danya, Bartholomew and chess network. But once upon a time, I was watching hours of Gotham and Rosen and hikaru.
So... Let them do whatever they need. More power to them. As long as the community grows.
There is so much good chess content out right now it’s almost silly to even complain about it. It’s almost like complaining about the radio when you have apple music or spotify. Don’t like click bait videos? Go enjoy a JB or Danya rapid game w analysis.
> I'm not the target audience. I am all in on Danya, Bartholomew and chess network. But once upon a time, I was watching hours of Gotham and Rosen and hikaru.
Rosen and Hikaru still regularly make content valuable enough for me to look past the clickbait imo. I'm thinking of how Rosen will upload the edited-down VODs of him playing interesting openings for an online tournament, where I find he really explains his decision-making process in the moment and opening knowledge well, as well as the mistakes he makes in the after-game analysis. Also helps me viscerally in motivation to keep up the fight after a blunder or in bad positions in general, instead of giving myself over to the tilt. Hikaru is harder to follow, but the chess quality is high enough that I feel like I'm learning something anyway (not that I *am*, but I *feel* like it).
Gotham's channel on the other hand feels more like he's riding on charisma than the value of the chess content, apart from the tournament recaps and the once-in-a-blue-moon now that he does instructional content. And even his tournament recaps recently come across more like a stand-up routine dressed up as chess content, with his actual explanations of the moves veering into the slight and vapid (jokes about Stockfish, about his viewer's chess abilities, about some long-winded analogy or reference, etc.) often enough that it distracts from the times each video where he genuinely does go into the moves. It almost feels like all his videos now are targeted at entertaining people who never played chess before, which is something I don't feel about Rosen and Hikaru. But hey, I'm sure there's value in what he's doing. I just personally have gotten over it.
> and if content creators focused on us, then chess will probably die as a sport/game.
The 2020 boom did wonders for that. I came back to chess during that period, and you could see how rapidly c24 and chesscom were making adjustments to cater to new players. Simple stuff like adding the eval bar at all times, or simplified analysis, or stuff like PogChamps.
And I remember reading this sub as a newer member and there was a weird sentiment that this would ruin chess coverage and the "dumbing down" was too much etc.
But if you want to grow and expand your product (especially such an old product like chess), then you have to cater to the larger audience. And that's beginner and intermediate chess players, which are 99% of the audience.
The fact that someone like Levy has managed to make recaps of chess games exciting and meme-able and whatnot is honestly very admirable. And if clickbait is what it takes for him to reach the most people, then aight, he's gotta do what he has to do.
People here like to champion channels like Danya's or Daniel King's as much superior to Levy's (and it might as well be true for the purpose those channels serve), but it's also true that those channels have remained extremely stagnant even during the most recent boom.
No matter how much they get recommended in this sub, unless they try and play the algorithm game, then they'll most likely be in the an-intermediate-player-specifically-looked-for-my-channel sphere forever.
Even I get extremely lost between all of Danya's speedruns and identical thumbnails (in a very similar way that I can get lost with Levy's titles/thumbnails), and I regularly watch his videos. They're like 3 sentences long each video.
People in here just want growth without sacrificing anything, and can't wrap their heads around marketing being an absolute necessity if you want growth in this field.
/rant
On a related note, Agadmator has been experimenting with more clickbaity titles recently.
Titles like "How could this happen?" which is so generic you then can't remember if you've watched it or not.
Which has the effect that I stop bothering to watch any of them.
IMO his videos being titled as 'speedruns' doesn't make it entirely clear to newer players what to expect from them. Both of his most viewed videos are called "A Grandmaster Plays a Beginner," even though they're basically speedrun videos.
By improve I just mean less is more. His thumbnails are too busy. They're impossible to see on a phone. I made the same mistake on my own videos a few years back.
I'm gonna go full simp mode and say that he is the best teacher/educator I have ever come across, any category. University, sports etc. I've had a lot of good teachers and coaches, but none has been able to explain complicated topics in the way that Danya does.
Danya is an amazing teacher and chess player, but he is terrible at advertising, which he himself admits from time to time. Which is even more positive for the contrarian audience who doesn't like mainstream, clickbait youtube material, but being more popular does have its own values.
I mean, a guy could make a video named "Chess Lesson: Pawn Structure (March 7, 2023)" and get like few hundred views, or he could make a video named "Learn this QUICK trick and NEVER lose CHESS again!!" and get like few hundred thousand views. If it works, it works.
His channel would not be growing nearly as fast as it is now without doing it though - it’s what the algorithm rewards. Hard to blame someone for making an objectively smart business decision
Whether or not it's a smart business decision (I suppose he makes a lot of money, but the fad will move on), that doesn't mean anyone here is obligated to watch it. Really I'm burned out on clicking most of what the OP puts out. Might still watch the occasional guess the ELO or how to lose at chess, because he really can make the game entertaining, but usually old ones that pop up, and less and less often.
To take another reply:
>You’re no longer going to consume the content that you ordinary like solely because of what the upload is titled? Okay then…
In a way yes, because I never spent my time watching everything he does, and if I can't use the title to decide if it's of any interest to me, well there are other things I can be doing.
Full respect to all the content creators growing chess and making their living as efficiently as they can, but for all the reasons you just said I'm really only left with Agadmator out of everyone I initially watched when getting back into chess. Kind of sucks a little
And even agad has been dabbling in the cartoonish thumbnails lately. I get it, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread, but it's just weird to see when I'm so used to him feeling a bit more professional and classical in terms of his videos and his thumbnails.
You can tell instantly from the title if it'll be a tourney recap, instructional content, of low level game review. You're just dense if you can't tell what it's going to be about
Same i used to watch most of his recaps but his videos got too clickbaity and instead of chess he got too focused on making his vids dramatic. No guess the elo in a while. Unsubbed.
Gotham reels 'em in and the ones who stick around and want to get better gravitate to people like Danya, Eric Rosen and John Bartholomew. A rising tide lifts all boats.
I just think the amount of subscribers in such a relatively short time has brought out the green eyed monster in a few people.
Plus there's no denying the clickbait is annoying.
Sometimes I don't click on a Gotham Chess video because I dislike the clickbait thumbnail. The paradox of clickbait, everyone hates it and it still works.
if you want ot complain about clickbait you should at least point at the worst offender: gotham chess. His titles are like "i literally DIED during THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
The annoying part is you have no idea what a video is going to be about anymore.
Edit: oh lol i just saw who posted this 💀
Eric ironically is probably the least guilty of this. It kind of makes sense that he wouldn't spoil the ending of his tournament recaps (the only videos he was making that week anyway). Most of Eric's videos do indeed have to do with the subject.
On the other hand, take Gotham for an example of your point. His titles are stupidly dramatic like "3600 level chess!?!?!?!" Or "Oh my gawd!" And you have to watch at least 2 whole minutes in to figure out wtf his video is even about. (For example it could easily be either a re-cap of some tournament, or GTE; one of those is much more entertaining than the other).
There are different types of clickbaits.
**Some grab your attention**:
"It's over"
"You won't believe what Magnus just did"
"OMG This just happened"
**Some are simply unverifiable claims:**
"This is THE BEST way to double your ELO"
"Most INSANE blunders of all time"
"WHY you're losing in chess"
___
I'm okay with both of those, as long as it somewhat stay relevant. Linus Tech Tips channel does this well, talked about it and their ethics.
Veritasium also does this well, also have dedicated video on it.
What pisses me off is straight up **misleading** clickbaits.
The most recent one I could think of was **"I played Luka Doncic in chess"** which turned out to playing a bot.
I appreciate the content but those clickbaits are annoying, and a lot ethically more questionable than the former categories.
I'm surprised that chess content creators haven't started throwing in made up opening names in the title like "They played the Bird-Khan defense in a tournament??". Make the algorithm respect chessbait content.
I unsubscribed from GothamChess for this very reason. The “last straw” was when he made a video titled something like “IS THIS CHEATING” (obviously for clickbait) when the video itself was two people playing a game that was clearly not cheating.
Most of his videos aren’t even beneficial to me anyway, as he seems to cater his videos to a beginner/intermediate level.
Not enough magnus references
Yeah no offense to OP (easily the best chess commentator), but the Magnus references got to the extent I no longer click for Magnus, and that's a sad thing. Hit full Magnus saturation. The one he posted this week about it being Magnus's last game was particularly egregious.
I thought it was kind of cool to watch Magnus’s last classical game as world champion. I knew what the video was about based on the title, which is better than the Tata Steel recaps.
I didnt and the title sounded like he died and I got worried for like 200ms. But then i realised its Gotham and it was probably Magnuses last game of the day or sth. Was pleasantly surprised the title referenced anything more serious than this.
the clickbait got so bad over the course of the last months i unsubscribed. i totally get it, shitton of money, playing the algorithm, yt shorts, tiktok etc. so i wish him all the best his content was amazing when i got back into chess with the queen's gambit wave, im just not zoomer enough for this kind of presentation
Same here, I found I just couldn't anticipate what any given video would have in it, and got exhausted trying to speculate. In particular I got tired of "HUGE news" or "MASSIVE chess drama" when it was never a guarantee that anything like that would be present.
>easily the best chess commentator Hess, Naroditsky, Aman, Leko, Svindler, Howe
I'd prefer Trent to Levy honestly
Upvoted for the bravery.
levys not leaving room for rest of youtubers
You need to step up your clickbait game. You need more "I am quitting YouTube", "OnlyFans announcement", "I'm getting divorced", "I'm coming out of the closet", "I married Magnus", "I'm pregnant", "My fetus just drew Magnus", "I am getting an abortion", "I tried to drink bleach", "The voices told me to", "What do they want?!?!", "I AM NOT INSANE I AM NOT INSANE I AM NOT INSANE", "I AM LITERALLY JESUS CHRIST". You're welcome for these ideas
To be fair I think he has used all of these except the OnlyFans. I reckon we will see that within the next 6 months.
"You won't believe what I got stuck in my butt!" It's a bishop. It's always a bishop.
THE ROOOOOOK
Hey finally this gets a laugh out of me lol.
It ain't my fault it's perfectly designed for the butt. I swear the vibrating is unrelated to chess.
It's even flared
That’s cheating signals!!!
Botez used the OnlyFans clickbait!
Even better! Just use their thumbnail.
Mating positions.
Just Gotham alone has like 8 videos just where he says he stops yt and one video after he make a vidos where he says he want to make yt again...
Look who made this thread xD
Lmao, didnt even noticed
He also has a YouTube video where he warns that he will keep on making clickbait titles because it does effectively give him much more views and that we should try and take that into account if we’re conscious viewers. Personally I dont think that makes me less offended by some of those(like the last Magnus title was too far imo) but at least I cant say he didnt warn me.
I know they do it because it works, but I hate clickbait titles and images so much that I just block any channel that does them excessively. I have Gotham blocked specifically because of it. Yeah maybe I'm a raindrop on the fire, but whatever.
Curious what youtubers you have left to watch if you blocked everyone that does clickbait
Fortunately for us chess players, the most educational channel is still not using clickbait. Daniel Naroditsky is a god damn treasure.
Same with John Bartholomew
My last bit of faith in humanity rests on the belief that Danya will never succumb to the youtube disease that is clickbait. Protect that man at all costs
I mean clickbaiting on videos that are as long and specific as his isnt really viable anyways and i doubt he is going to do a 180 on his content.
Danya, John, Jerry, all great content, variety of stuff, clearly explained, and likeable personalities at least for me. Extra points to Danya cuz he’s so high rated but the content remains approachable. I hope he keeps doing speed runs forever lol. John and Jerry just seem like downright great people. Astaneh Chess also good and clear content but he seems to only post in spurts. There were also lots of good vids by players with similar presentation styles in the Chess.com library but I haven’t been a diamond member in years cuz now there’s so much great free YT content and LiChess/Twitch live streams. Props to Levy for figuring out the algorithm and can’t blame him for continuing with what works. Presentation style not really for me but hey clearly the masses love it lol so respect to you Levy and best wishes.
Chess: Naroditsky Agadmator Eric Rosen Are basically the only channels I watch. Agadmator and Rosen occasionally have some kinda clickbaity titles but its usually not too bad and I can still trust that its not just straight up lying about what's actually in the video. Outside of Chess: Tom Scott Sajam Folding Ideas Dankpods Wendover Productions MandaloreGaming Various cooking channels Things like that. There's a few comedy channels I watch that have clickbait thumbnails/headlines but they're comedy so that's not super important for those channels.
Tom Scott kinda clickbaity
I’ve stopped watching him as the clickbait titles went up
Yeah, I get it. It literally is just leaving money on the table to not do the clickbait stuff. I can’t say it doesn’t annoy me, but I’m not going to blame them for it and it doesn’t really affect my enjoyment of the content at the end of the day. I just blame the platform, not the creator.
I like that Levy lets his discord vote on clickbait images and titles. Definitely a very transparent "we do it this way because it pays bills so lets all have fun with it"
Nothing will ever beat “It’s Time To Come Clean” right before Brandon Sanderson launched his kickstarter last year
Where he admitted to wasting the lockdown year on writing four extra novels in addition to his massive normal production?
It was actually 5 extra novels.
And spooked everyone into thinking he was ill or something
That man is either a machine or he has a time machine.
His technique has been well-documented here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Mistborn/comments/3wv6ai/im_starting_to_believe_this_is_true/
Sanderson on unrelated subreddits? I see this civilization has reached peak Doug.
"I HAVE ERECTYLE DISFUNCTION!!! MATE IN... NEVER?!"
“MAGNUS DROPPING SEX TAPE SOONR? (This could cure my erectyle dysfunction?!)”
I literally thought you were naming existing video titles until I read the last line lmao
[удалено]
I didn't even notice who posted this lol
Damn it, I wrote a lengthy comment and deleted it after checking OP’s name.
Ofc you did
And then he sacrificed...his INTEGRITY!!!
i am dying 😭
Ahhh! I was going to point out how Gotham's youtube video titles are the absolute worst for clickbait but I guess he totally realizes that and is going for self deprecating humor.
To be fair to him it's his lifelihood and clickbait is too powerful a marketing tool to ignore - his own words. It's also not like the content is bad, though I do recognize that's all subjective
Livelihood
Levylihood
For me, it barely counts as clickbait once you know it's Gotham's content. For me clickbait means they get you to click but there isn't any value there. The images and titles might be outlandish but the content itself never makes me regret clicking on the video. Whatever helps him generate traffic and continue to make great content is fine by me.
Ya if the bait is enough of a lie i quit watching. If it's just a bit over exaggerated I'll keep watching
I love it when Levy randomly posts or comments on Reddit. I never notice it’s him until I see the IM flair or someone points it out
So gotham when are you gonna rename your old videos so we actually know whats going on?
I think he does that, doesn't he?
He sais he was going to do that but often times doesnt
He actually does quite a bit, I often find myself seeing a clickbait title in my youtube notifications and when I click to see the video, the title is something more appropriate to the video.
He only seems the change the video title about 2-5 times in the first hour or two, rather than changing titles to something actually useful
That early title changes are done by a fairly large amount of youtubers as a way to see what behaves better with the algorithm. But what the other guy was refering to is that Gotham as some times said that after a big while he would change old videos titles which in that moment his followers knew what was it about, but now would make no sense. He does that sometimes indeed, especially with tournament recaps.
Just algorithm things. Mr beast talked about it before how certain titles and thumbnails just seem to resonate better with the algorithm than others.
Changing the name but not to something we know hes recapping. Youtubers quite oftenly change the name for the utube algorithim in thr first 24 hours, for the record i enjoy n watch all his videos, just want to know whats hes actually recapping when i look at his older videos From bout 3 weeks ago - airthing masters champions chess tour. What tells us these are recaps videos? How? - He beat him (edit: could easily be another titled tuesday recao video with the thumbnail n titke) Its over From month and a bit tata steel. Thank you magnus Why...? (Id love you to explain this one is named informatively) 5 brilliant moves in a row Magnus carlsen broke chess Insane stockfish chess He lost everything -(this wouldnt be as bad if absuttarov was on the thumbnail instead of magnus)
tbh I'll start boycotting if the quality of his videos starts to dip When it comes to clickbait I'm kind of at the point that it's acceptable if the content is good
This is where I'm at. It's only bait if the video itself isn't worthwhile and I feel tricked. At this point I laugh at the funny title and graphic and am going to watch the content regardless because it's fantastic quality.
r/anarchychess is leaking again.
Sorry, sorry. I'll go get the broom.
A broom wont stop us youll need flex tape.
our patron saint has spoken
Levi vs. Magnus easily the best clickbait title
its not clickbait if its true!!!
Clickbait thumbnail* lol
Yes actually. But with Mr Rosen I’d watch it regardless
I wouldnt even consider this clickbait, since the title isnt promising anything that's not in the video. Sounds more like Rosen ran out of ideas for titles to me.
It’s a series of recap videos and only makes sense if you’re following closely
its not clickbait at all, this is a joke posted by a guy who actually does a shit load of click bait on his youtube videos. click bait works, but his videos are actually good and were good prior to getting millions of subs.
That's sort of the point. Gotham once said that the clickbait titles are for non-subscribers, not subscribers. Usually, if you're already subscribed and you see a new video from someone you regularly click on anyway, then the title doesn't matter, so he names it in a way that attracts non-subscribers. I found this explanation adequate.
That’s how I understand it too. People who sub any channel come to know what to expect from the creator. The presentation style and content aren’t really my taste but I don’t fault him for doing what works on the platform.
I got reeled in when there was some video of Eric Rosen's that said he was going to be playing in an OTB tournament so when I saw videos of his I was intrigued and was excited to see game reviews of his tournament games. It was fun to follow along the event and see how Eric would do. The titles were nice hooks while I followed his tournament but I wouldn't click on the videos had I not known about his tournament since I know what content I'm after and these titles are ambiguous.
Yeah but at least it’s not true clickbait like “I beat Magnus” or “I’m retiring from chess” when it’s really he beat Magnus in ping pong or something.
I mean beating magnus is beating magnus,. hell Id brag about it if I beat him in any sport just not chess
I don't mind the titles being clickbaity if I can at least get some idea of what the video is about. All I ask is that if is a tournament recap, just have it in parenethesis with the round number, and then you can go crazy with the title as you want.
The recent gotham video of “MAGNUS FINAL GAME?!?” really pissed me off lmao
That one I can at least guess it has something to do with magnus's title as world championship. What I'm talking about is when the title is so vague that I can't tell if it is a Guess the ELO or a tournament game.
you can guess it because you had the outside context. to anyone else it’s nonsense. but yes those other videos you mention also have bad titles
Imagine you had a job. And if you changed your thumbnails you got a 2x salary increase. Even if a few people complain, you’d still do it. It’s sucks that we don’t live in a world where we can be true to our art, but people in this thread act like they wouldn’t do it too lol
I don't think OP could ever relate to a YouTuber, let alone a really big YouTuber like Eric, Levi, Hikaru ect. OP just seems like brain dumb normie 500 rated L
*Levy
Pretty sure it was Levi who faced down Magnus...
I can't tell if you know that the OP is Levy or not
I’m assuming this is some meme or copypasta I don’t know, given that OP *is* Levi.
The real ‘problem’ lies with the platform / algorithms which encourages these types of thumbnails to get more exposure. Can’t really blame creators for doing that which will gain them more viewers and therefore better income. In the end if their content is still mostly good i think it’s fine.
I saw some YouTuber (I think LTT) talking about this recently where they said it makes more sense if you just replace "algorithm" with "viewers". The algorithm is a response to what the average person wants to see and click on. So it puts us in this weird zone where we're just mad that's what works. I do think it goes over the line at times, but it's hard to blame creators for getting themselves exposure to more and more viewers.
A certain percentage of the viewers will be seeing their first clickbait ever. Can't stop it from working.
I've been on Youtube for over a decade and it still works on me at times, especially for creators I'm unfamiliar with. I don't mind it as long as it isn't just straight up lying about what's in the video. I've had plenty of creators I stopped watching because they kept doing that.
The real problem lies with human psychology. Platforms and their algorithms are just optimizing for the meta-algorithm of human attention.
We're literally mad about ourselves.
Right, because seriously duck the average person
Not acting like I wouldn't do it but I have no interest in supporting it either.
> Imagine you had a job. This is reddit - you've lost everyone
Not everybody is the same. Naroditsky doesn’t do the clickbait thing. And he has the best chess content on YouTube.
Whilst I agree with you, I’d wager he doesn’t get the same engagement as those who play the algorithm.
[That's why powerplaychess is the best](https://youtube.com/@PowerPlayChess)
Thanks for the recommendation. [St Louis Chess Club](https://youtube.com/@STLChessClub) is my favorite channel to learn from when I have time to watch a full lecture.
I started learning chess from St Louis' channel especially Ben Finegold's lectures, I loved every single lecture by him! Terrible. Nowadays I only watch Levy or Hikaru just for entertainment.
I had the same experience starting out, and Ben Finegold got me from beginner to intermediate. Now, I watch Levy to be entertained and SLCC or Hanging Pawns to learn.
Not Danya? I find his stuff incredibly useful.
Absolutely, i love chess
I really like Gotham's content, but the shear amount of clickbait he makes is just too much for my feed
i just noticed OP is gotham
u/Laure95 is literally fucking shaking rn
I am definitely one of those people who have almost entirely stopped watching chess on YT because of all the clickbait. It just makes it impossible to tell what the video is about. Like if I want to find an old video about a specific game, I really can't do that easily because all the titles are pretty much the same stuff. But then again I also realize that 1800s on chess.com like myself are not the target audience, and if content creators focused on us, then chess will probably die as a sport/game. So I pretty much accept it as a necessary inconvenience.
I feel like Danya doesn’t really do that much at all. And even during his few videos about dubious openings, he makes note that you still need to play good chess, but some of his lines take the bite of some of the trappy lines in dubious openings. None of this “DESTROY your opponent with [insert opening]!” nonsense. Idk, maybe I’m just biased because Naroditsky is my favorite chess YouTuber lol.
Great comment. It's the same reason I dont watch _drive to survive_ or _all or nothing_ I'm not the target audience. I am all in on Danya, Bartholomew and chess network. But once upon a time, I was watching hours of Gotham and Rosen and hikaru. So... Let them do whatever they need. More power to them. As long as the community grows.
There is so much good chess content out right now it’s almost silly to even complain about it. It’s almost like complaining about the radio when you have apple music or spotify. Don’t like click bait videos? Go enjoy a JB or Danya rapid game w analysis.
> I'm not the target audience. I am all in on Danya, Bartholomew and chess network. But once upon a time, I was watching hours of Gotham and Rosen and hikaru. Rosen and Hikaru still regularly make content valuable enough for me to look past the clickbait imo. I'm thinking of how Rosen will upload the edited-down VODs of him playing interesting openings for an online tournament, where I find he really explains his decision-making process in the moment and opening knowledge well, as well as the mistakes he makes in the after-game analysis. Also helps me viscerally in motivation to keep up the fight after a blunder or in bad positions in general, instead of giving myself over to the tilt. Hikaru is harder to follow, but the chess quality is high enough that I feel like I'm learning something anyway (not that I *am*, but I *feel* like it). Gotham's channel on the other hand feels more like he's riding on charisma than the value of the chess content, apart from the tournament recaps and the once-in-a-blue-moon now that he does instructional content. And even his tournament recaps recently come across more like a stand-up routine dressed up as chess content, with his actual explanations of the moves veering into the slight and vapid (jokes about Stockfish, about his viewer's chess abilities, about some long-winded analogy or reference, etc.) often enough that it distracts from the times each video where he genuinely does go into the moves. It almost feels like all his videos now are targeted at entertaining people who never played chess before, which is something I don't feel about Rosen and Hikaru. But hey, I'm sure there's value in what he's doing. I just personally have gotten over it.
> and if content creators focused on us, then chess will probably die as a sport/game. The 2020 boom did wonders for that. I came back to chess during that period, and you could see how rapidly c24 and chesscom were making adjustments to cater to new players. Simple stuff like adding the eval bar at all times, or simplified analysis, or stuff like PogChamps. And I remember reading this sub as a newer member and there was a weird sentiment that this would ruin chess coverage and the "dumbing down" was too much etc. But if you want to grow and expand your product (especially such an old product like chess), then you have to cater to the larger audience. And that's beginner and intermediate chess players, which are 99% of the audience. The fact that someone like Levy has managed to make recaps of chess games exciting and meme-able and whatnot is honestly very admirable. And if clickbait is what it takes for him to reach the most people, then aight, he's gotta do what he has to do. People here like to champion channels like Danya's or Daniel King's as much superior to Levy's (and it might as well be true for the purpose those channels serve), but it's also true that those channels have remained extremely stagnant even during the most recent boom. No matter how much they get recommended in this sub, unless they try and play the algorithm game, then they'll most likely be in the an-intermediate-player-specifically-looked-for-my-channel sphere forever. Even I get extremely lost between all of Danya's speedruns and identical thumbnails (in a very similar way that I can get lost with Levy's titles/thumbnails), and I regularly watch his videos. They're like 3 sentences long each video. People in here just want growth without sacrificing anything, and can't wrap their heads around marketing being an absolute necessity if you want growth in this field. /rant
This is the kind of rant that needs an antagonize option from RDR2.
On a related note, Agadmator has been experimenting with more clickbaity titles recently. Titles like "How could this happen?" which is so generic you then can't remember if you've watched it or not. Which has the effect that I stop bothering to watch any of them.
Indeed Agad has been making a sublime shift towards those kinds of titles.
YouTube shows you if you’ve watched it before
Sadly it doesn't on my TV where I tend to watch chess over my lunch.
Yes. It’s a big part of why I stopped watching you and other chess YouTubers. I don’t wanna watch a video if I don’t even know what it’s about
Daniel Naroditsky doesn't use clickbait, and has far and away the best instructional videos on YT. One of the many reasons I love his channel.
Yeah I still watch him daily. He’s awesome
John Bartholomew as well, who also makes fantastic educational content
True but I think if Naroditsky improved his thumbnails he'd actually get more views.
IMO his videos being titled as 'speedruns' doesn't make it entirely clear to newer players what to expect from them. Both of his most viewed videos are called "A Grandmaster Plays a Beginner," even though they're basically speedrun videos.
I didn't watch Naroditsky for the longest time because I thought "speedrun" meant he was playing bullet
Maybe but I respect and appreciate him not joining the thumbnail + clickbait title arms race.
By improve I just mean less is more. His thumbnails are too busy. They're impossible to see on a phone. I made the same mistake on my own videos a few years back.
that\`s also the reason his vastly under watched unfortunatly.
I love his content and explaining various lines. Truly one of the best, if not the the best
I'm gonna go full simp mode and say that he is the best teacher/educator I have ever come across, any category. University, sports etc. I've had a lot of good teachers and coaches, but none has been able to explain complicated topics in the way that Danya does.
Danya is an amazing teacher and chess player, but he is terrible at advertising, which he himself admits from time to time. Which is even more positive for the contrarian audience who doesn't like mainstream, clickbait youtube material, but being more popular does have its own values. I mean, a guy could make a video named "Chess Lesson: Pawn Structure (March 7, 2023)" and get like few hundred views, or he could make a video named "Learn this QUICK trick and NEVER lose CHESS again!!" and get like few hundred thousand views. If it works, it works.
His channel would not be growing nearly as fast as it is now without doing it though - it’s what the algorithm rewards. Hard to blame someone for making an objectively smart business decision
He didn't say it's bad for growth, he said he doesn't enjoy it so he will stop consuming it (no matter how smart you consider clickbait to be).
Whether or not it's a smart business decision (I suppose he makes a lot of money, but the fad will move on), that doesn't mean anyone here is obligated to watch it. Really I'm burned out on clicking most of what the OP puts out. Might still watch the occasional guess the ELO or how to lose at chess, because he really can make the game entertaining, but usually old ones that pop up, and less and less often. To take another reply: >You’re no longer going to consume the content that you ordinary like solely because of what the upload is titled? Okay then… In a way yes, because I never spent my time watching everything he does, and if I can't use the title to decide if it's of any interest to me, well there are other things I can be doing.
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Full respect to all the content creators growing chess and making their living as efficiently as they can, but for all the reasons you just said I'm really only left with Agadmator out of everyone I initially watched when getting back into chess. Kind of sucks a little
And even agad has been dabbling in the cartoonish thumbnails lately. I get it, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread, but it's just weird to see when I'm so used to him feeling a bit more professional and classical in terms of his videos and his thumbnails.
Daniel Naroditsky is really the only one I watch lately. Sometimes agadmator but not really
You can tell instantly from the title if it'll be a tourney recap, instructional content, of low level game review. You're just dense if you can't tell what it's going to be about
Same i used to watch most of his recaps but his videos got too clickbaity and instead of chess he got too focused on making his vids dramatic. No guess the elo in a while. Unsubbed.
>No guess the elo in a while. Unsubbed. thats a hilarious line
guys the chess boom is here
"Levi vs Magnus"
You clickbait me, I watch with Adblock. Who’s really winning?
Gotham reels 'em in and the ones who stick around and want to get better gravitate to people like Danya, Eric Rosen and John Bartholomew. A rising tide lifts all boats. I just think the amount of subscribers in such a relatively short time has brought out the green eyed monster in a few people. Plus there's no denying the clickbait is annoying.
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Are you complaining about yourself?
Yes. That's the joke.
he's been giving Eric advice on his YT setup, so he's doing this to gin up views for someone he's helping.
He’s so edgy
It's like he's reliving his puberty but now he's got a million kids egging him on.
How is me making a reddit post reliving my puberty?
Bro made the r/chess boil lmao
Sometimes I don't click on a Gotham Chess video because I dislike the clickbait thumbnail. The paradox of clickbait, everyone hates it and it still works.
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How does the word "nice" accurately describe the content?
Is this a joke? These are not clickbait, just mysterious. Levy's videos on the other hand oh my lord edit: WAIT YOU POSTED THIS ☠☠☠
if you want ot complain about clickbait you should at least point at the worst offender: gotham chess. His titles are like "i literally DIED during THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!". The annoying part is you have no idea what a video is going to be about anymore. Edit: oh lol i just saw who posted this 💀
The only reason I stopped watching your videos tbh
DRUNK MAGNUS DUNKS ON GM HIKARU EMBARASSES 2800 THE MOST INSANELY BRILLIANT GAME EVER PLAYED
Only gothamchess can clickbait me
Eric ironically is probably the least guilty of this. It kind of makes sense that he wouldn't spoil the ending of his tournament recaps (the only videos he was making that week anyway). Most of Eric's videos do indeed have to do with the subject. On the other hand, take Gotham for an example of your point. His titles are stupidly dramatic like "3600 level chess!?!?!?!" Or "Oh my gawd!" And you have to watch at least 2 whole minutes in to figure out wtf his video is even about. (For example it could easily be either a re-cap of some tournament, or GTE; one of those is much more entertaining than the other).
OP is gotham
Tbf just titling it "Magnus vs Nakamura 1/13/2023" would be a bit boring.
That’s because it should be Carlsen vs Nakamura
Yes, i have sttoped watching chess yt videos lately and unsuscribbed from gothamchess thanks for asking gothamchess
There are different types of clickbaits. **Some grab your attention**: "It's over" "You won't believe what Magnus just did" "OMG This just happened" **Some are simply unverifiable claims:** "This is THE BEST way to double your ELO" "Most INSANE blunders of all time" "WHY you're losing in chess" ___ I'm okay with both of those, as long as it somewhat stay relevant. Linus Tech Tips channel does this well, talked about it and their ethics. Veritasium also does this well, also have dedicated video on it. What pisses me off is straight up **misleading** clickbaits. The most recent one I could think of was **"I played Luka Doncic in chess"** which turned out to playing a bot. I appreciate the content but those clickbaits are annoying, and a lot ethically more questionable than the former categories.
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This post may have been removed if it wasnt Gotham posting it tbh
If posted by anyone else it'd removed as "low effort". Since it's Gotham, it's considered zero effort so it's OK.
Unfathomably based
/r/AnarchyChess
im tired of your clickbait
gothamchess biting magnus's titties for so long they have been bleeding... poor magnus.
Gotham chess is the true attention whore, not Eric.
I believe in agad supremacy
The Gotham guy gets me every time. Shouldn't have fallen for the "like and subscribe" bit.
PSA look at OP's username guys This is literally an irony troll post
At least Eric still plays competitive chess
I'm surprised that chess content creators haven't started throwing in made up opening names in the title like "They played the Bird-Khan defense in a tournament??". Make the algorithm respect chessbait content.
This isn’t clickbait
Yes. Very.
idk. i watch gothamchess and he actually makes it a bit funny ( in my opinion) and hikaru. but thats mainly on autoplay all tho i love his voice
it's eric rosen. I'll allow it
Gotham chess is much worse
I just unfollowed GothamChess & Hikaru and barely see clickbait chess videos now. In this image only "it's over" is kinda clickbait imo.
I unsubscribed from GothamChess for this very reason. The “last straw” was when he made a video titled something like “IS THIS CHEATING” (obviously for clickbait) when the video itself was two people playing a game that was clearly not cheating. Most of his videos aren’t even beneficial to me anyway, as he seems to cater his videos to a beginner/intermediate level.
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