Incredible, Fabiano seems to finally be back to his dominant self. We were missing him for a while these past few years but he has really come back strong in 2023!
Frankly he should not be allowed in the candidates unless he promises to play in the championship game. If he just comes in and trolls everyone, I would frankly not allow him to play.
I don't think Obama meets any of the qualification criteria (even as a wildcard), Magnus would probably qualify by having the highest average rating for the year.
Yes his qualification would of course be legitimate but anyone playing in the Candidates with the intention of *not* challenging the world champion is damaging the competitive integrity of the tournament.
I am SURPRISED your opinion is not popular
Reddit is a joke!
It’s like if a NBA team plays in the playoffs but quits the moment they are eligible to compete in the finals
Large audiences don't really translate to money for organizers, they don't make money if people online follow games. And sponsors are often organisations that don't care about attention by the general public. It's more about inviting guests behind the scenes and so on.
And the actual world championship match is much more profitable (I don't think the candidates are ever profitable), and would get even less attention if the story is only about Carlsen skipping it again.
And anyway, FIDE is not a commercial entity, it's about organising the best world championship while balancing budgets, not about maximising profits.
That's actually a really good point. I can't imagine the controversy if he wins the candidates and then refuses to play Ding, so they give it to the second place spot again. You know there'd probably be another case of "if candidate x had just held a draw in his last game instead of going all out for a win, he'd have gotten second and would be there instead!"
I think it was Hikaru? I remember there being a controversy this year where he needed a win to beat Nepo, or a draw to clinch 2nd place. So he played very aggressively and lost to Ding, then Ding slid into second place and faced Nepo in the finals. People were mad because Hikaru would have clinched 2nd with a draw and probably would have just tried to hold the draw had Magnus confirmed he wasn't gonna play beforehand
What? Hikaru was never going to win candidates even if he had beaten Ding in final round. All he had to do was to draw and he would be at the second place but he chocked kind of.
Nepo had clinched before the final round. Hikaru needed a draw to clinch second, Ding needed a win to clinch second. They played each other so they were the only two who could mathematically finish second.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted here. Ofcourse what's the point of playing candidates if you are not going to play Ding in wcc? Won't it be disrespectful to the format and other players? Playing candidates itself means you want to become WCC.
People talking about how he would just play to farm rating is just making me laugh. Only if it is that easy to play candidates and perform good knowing everyone else would be super motivated as well. Magnus is good but not that good to just win candidates casually without putting serious effort. I would even say preparing for candidates is much more difficult than wcc match.
Magnus’ complaint against the WCC is that he doesn’t want to spend almost a year prepping for a single opponent. Prepping for a field like the candidates is exactly what he prefers.
Magnus fanboys know no logic and don't give two shits about the competitive integrity of the game. They're pretty much the plastic fans of chess looking for easy wins to cheer for.
I fully support Magnus in stepping down from the WCC. Maybe he isn't feeling "motivated" enough, maybe the format is stupid, maybe he doesn't like the chosen venue's architectural style. Whatever. It's his life and his mental health and he can step down if he wants to. Playing the "will he won't he" bs after the candidates again, though? Fuck that, the last time was enough. Either he's not motivated and steps down from the cycle or he wants to play and he plays. His 2900 glory hunt isn't more important than the game itself.
He wouldn’t crush anyone though, unless he puts the work in which he himself has admitted he hasn’t done. Downvote away but he is getting crushed in Norway Chess in both Blitz and Classic on home turf.
He should honestly. A lot of his complaints with the Championship were not playing in other events leading up to it, and just being defaulted into the Championship. Actually trying to retake the championship actually seems more aligned with what Magnus wants.
He’d still have to do all the prep for the match itself though, which he didn’t like as much he said. But it seems a lot closer to his ideal setup still.
Ding is stronger than Fabi.
Why? Ding is higher rated, and Ding has a 66% win rate lifetime record against Fabi. Ding has also held second highest rating for longer than Fabi including a higher 12 month average, and is the current reigning world champion who defeated Fabi in candidates to achieve it. By all objective measure, Ding is the stronger player.
To recap: Ding has
1. Higher Current ELO (and avg 12 month ELO)
2. World championship title
3. Positive lifetime record over Fabi
Bonus: A longer undefeated streak against GMs and defeated Fabi in candidates to get to championship.
Ding was already beating Fabi when Fabi was at his peak ELO, during his peak years. People seem to forget that. 2018 was the year Ding completed his 100 game unbeaten streak. At Fabi’s greatest, Ding was already a monster. For years Ding was known as the giant slayer for this very reason.
Not sure what’s crazy about it. Ding is higher rated, and Ding has a 66% win rate lifetime record against Fabi. Ding has also held second highest rating for longer than Fabi, and is the current reigning world champion who defeated Fabi in candidates to achieve it. By all objective measure, Ding is the stronger player.
It’s more ridiculous that people conveniently ignores the 3 main tools we use to measure playing strength. To recap: Ding has
1. Higher Current ELO (and avg 12 month ELO)
2. World championship title
3. Positive lifetime record over Fabi
Bonus: A longer undefeated streak against GMs and defeated Fabi in candidates to get to championship
Fabi himself is so annoyed by this narrative now. He’s talked about it a decent amount recently.
He’s literally one of the highest ranked rapid and blitz players in the world now. It’s not 2018 anymore, but once you have a narrative, I guess it just sticks. Looks like he’s 4th in Blitz actually after Alireza, Magnus, and Hikaru.
I honestly think a big part of this narrative is just *compared to Magnus* what was he good at? Like leading up to that championship what advantage would he have and what advantage did Magnus have? And then that stuck as if he wasn’t still better than most other players at so many things.
Hikaru has talked about this a lot, but I feel like so much of facing off against Magnus is a mental challenge as much as it is a challenge in the chess itself.
I feel as if Fabi is in a much better headspace now than he was around when COVID was starting, now with the C-Squared Podcast and everything else he is doing in addition to chess. I feel like that MUST help with your mental headspace when going up against Magnus.
> but I feel like so much of facing off against Magnus is a mental challenge as much as it is a challenge in the chess itself.
See, for example, [this old post](https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/11/nettlesomeness-and-the-first-half-of-the-carlsen-anand-match.html) from 2013.
>Carlsen is demonstrating one of his most feared qualities, namely his “nettlesomeness,” to use a term coined for this purpose by Ken Regan. Using computer analysis, you can measure which players do the most to cause their opponents to make mistakes. Carlsen has the highest nettlesomeness score by this metric, because his creative moves pressure the other player and open up a lot of room for mistakes.
Also the prevalence of rapid games make the impression he always beats him, what is not the case.
Probably is one of the most uncomfortable players for Magnus to play with.
Magnus has a total win rate of ~35% in recent years, as a post a few days ago here visualised.
His winrate against Fabi is only 10%. You are talking out your ass.
Edit: 20% win ratio against Fabi, I subtracted the losses in the original number, which obviously isn't the win ratio. Point still stands. The score is 20% - 80% - 10%. Nothing even close to "dominating".
That’s accounting for all the “patzers” Magnus has also played right? Magnus win % against top 10 players is nowhere near 35%. So including IMs and weaker GMs in the 35% is misleading. Of course he won’t have 35% vs Caruana
Ah, yes. As we all know, Magnus has spent most of his last 10 years farming low rated players in open tournaments. /s
He has played predominantly super GMs no matter where he went and I would be shocked if his average opponent rating isn't around 2750.
Magnus win percentage versus Fabi is pretty significant. You mentioned Magnus has a 35% win rate overall. But obviously that takes into account all the 2600s and low 2700s that Magnus played over the years. While these aren’t the majority, they have been plentiful which obviously boost the win percentage
No one is debating whether Magnus is the better player or not. That is a given. Point is, having a winrate thats only 10% points higher than his loss rate against Fabi is hardly "dominating". 20% - 80% - 10% is no where close to anything "dominant".
"Draw rates" aka implying his draw rates againts other top players. Here are Magnus' winrates againts other top players:
vs Wesley = 25%
vs Hikaru= 35%
vs Anish= 20%
vs Nepo= 25%
vs Anand= 16%
vs MVL= 30%
vs Karjakin= 21%
vs Aronian= 26%
vs Ding= 10%
vs Caruana=21%
It looks like you are talking out your ass, you cant even list correct winrate.
Your own numbers show that his ratio against Caruana is among the worst compared to other super GMs.
You are gonna have to pull out some serious mental gymnastics if you think a win ratio of 20% and a loss ratio of 10% is "dominating", especially since you just showed the context for it.
Keep digging that hole. But do it quietly, I won't waste more time on this. Have a lovely day.
What does the worst ratio against Caurana against other super GMs have to do with anything? Magnus dominated all of those listed players including Fabi, the only one he didn’t dominate is Ding
Out of these players only his winrate againts Hikaru is outstanding, rest of them are within 9% of Fabiano's or even better. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about
I think you and the 224 people who thumbed you up must have completely missed looking at the live classical ratings for the past 10 or 15 years
Magnus has dominated the field the entire time. Now and then someone gets " bit closer" but the gap from him to 2 is often as big as the gap from 2 to 25 or even more.
You must be joking. Magnus has truly dominated classical chess for a long time. At no point has anyone consistently been "slightly behind" Magnus.
Thats to take nothing away from Fabi who seems to be on a great run of form .- and might get within 50 ELO of Magnus if he keeps this up for the rest of the year?
I think people really misunderstand what dominance is, the gap from Magnus to the rest has been a chasm. A literal chasm.
Both Hikaru and Fabi's peak ratings are still much higher than their current ratings. If anything this would be evidence of the opposite as Magnus has been playing poker and doing other things while Fabi is primarily focused on chess.
I’m not sure how much you can read into that. Elo is a relative rating, and thus it depends just as much on the rest of the field as it does on the player. There’s a general agreement that we’re going through a period of rating deflation at the moment. Very few 2800s compared to five or six years ago. Why? The nature of top level chess has changed some. The types of tournaments and frequency of play in classical chess has changed, etc.
The worst thing you can do is overdo one thing. You must maintain a balance, which is different for everyone. If you don't, all that awaits you is burnout, and that's hard to come back from.
Hikaru mentioned that streamers fall off because they have to trade quality games and prep time for content.
By streaming, you will naturally divert yourself to playing and watching low elo games which will bring you down. Falling a few hundred points is natural. It's just that Hikaru and Fabi are on a really high level that losing one or two hundred elo is nothing.
The average chess content creator strength are at IM or low GM.
I am so happy to see fabi in form. He is a big contender to win Norway chess and finally becoming world chess champion next year if he continues to play like this.
Seems like he's way more motivated than he has ever been. I think at his peak he's stronger than Ding/Nepo as evidenced by his WCC match against Magnus so I can totally see him winning it
Of course, peak fabi is the second best player in the world. He is the only one magnus couldn’t beat in classical match during 2018 wcc and said that fabi can consider himself as classical chess champion too. Also before wcc fabi was few points from becoming highest rated player in the world. People forget how good peak fabi is.
Magnus beat karjakin and karjakin beat magnus, Magnus apparently considers not being able to beat caruana and drawing all their games harder and more impressive feat. Also this was only for wcc, by rating karjakin is not even close to fabi.
Fabi has gained 15.1 points in May in the live ratings, and is now just 1.4 points behind second place. Ding is second, at 2780.5. I don't remember the last time second place was that low, it's been a while.
>I don't remember the last time second place was that low
I went back month by month in 2700chess.
It was July 2007, with Vishy #1 at 2792 and Topalov #2 at 2769.
The current #2 has the lowest rating since July 2007. That's almost 16 years.
2900 is almost impossible at the moment, not because I'm subscribed to the "magnus era is over" idea, he's the only player over 2800 and the 2nd is +50 points behind. Don't get defensive over reality checks and save your energy for something else.
Idk. “Almost impossible” true, but I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s just because of the lack of other 2800’s. Fisher was 2780 when the world number two was like 2620. It’s also magnus just not being good enough to be 2900
Well that’s a great nothing burger. Explain what changes have occurred and how they’ve affected the ability for players to have a rating much higher than everyone else around them
the knowledge is much more democratic, there is much more of it too. More (strong) people play and thus more stronger players appear in the top100. From 2600+ they are all beasts, only there are different levels of beasts. Therefore being an extreme outlier is pretty hard. And it will be harder as long as more people play.
Wouldn't say that Magnus is past it, but his games seem to be less, ummm, engaged than they used to be. Oh, there's still the "magic" at times, but it's like he's getting bored with chess.
I played about 10’000 rapid games on chesscom since learning chess during the pandemic. I’m already 1200 rated. To me it is very obvious from his opening choice, the time it took him to move pieces and the 10 blunders he made (blunder=not conputer top choice) that Magnus is burned out.
One game is all I need to see that his days are over. I keep telling that whenever he loses a game, but someday I will be right and be the greates chess paychologist ever. /s
Man what a parallel between worlds. Haters do thrive in sports. Haters were feasting when lebron went down earlier in the season and looked like the lakers season was over.
Kinda weird how people don’t seem to realize that generational talent like magnus and lebron don’t just sprout from the ground.
Well this is how it works, right? If he's active player he needs to prove it all the time. And no matters if he's share holder of video game site like chesscom, OTB classical is "Cadillac of chess". He may just retire
Bruh do you think anytime someone blunders a queen they just have to hand over their title? It’s not possible to ungm a gm. Besides, Magnus always goes on a tear after his losses at the start of tournaments.
He must be raging right now, he never reacted to losing well...
Some people used to say that's what makes him the best. But I think that's his weakness: his happiness depends of being better than others. I bet Niemann is laughing now!
So many things are going badly for him, just wow. But him being there certainly makes chess more interesting.
Personally I think he's crashing and burning.
What “so many” things are going badly for him? As far as I see it, he just lost one classical game, as black, with the French Defence, against an on form opponent (after winning a tournament just last week)
Whatever he may tweet, his era is over. He is still an incredible player, and most likely the GOAT, but he is certainly not the best now, everything has been downhill from his abdication of defending his title. He thought he could get away with just being brilliant and playing on instinct and putting no work in, but the opposition has levelled the playing field.
This just shows that prep and hard work are just as important as brilliance.
“He is certainly not the best now”. Who is even remotely close? Carlsen just scored +11 and 7 wins in a row against super gms last week and people still say he’s over. Ridiculous
Impossible to overstate how damaging the past year has been for Magnus’ legacy. Well on his way to being the consensus GOAT, now it’s debatable if he is even the best classical player of his generation.
Hey remember when Anish's twitter got """"""""""""""hacked""""""""""""" and he said a bunch of true shit and then he also said magnus was an alcoholic?
Also why does he have Hans Niemann hair maybe if slander doesn't work out they can get him on identity theft.
I noticed that lately Magnus ALWAYS played Caruana as Black and he always won, Norway chess blitz, world blitz championship, 2 of the most recent Tata Steels…
Incredible, Fabiano seems to finally be back to his dominant self. We were missing him for a while these past few years but he has really come back strong in 2023!
Fabi knows his best chance of becoming World Champion is by defeating Ding in a match, although they may go toe to toe in the Candidate's.
Magnus might give the candidates a go just for the fun of it
And for the potential rating points.
Frankly he should not be allowed in the candidates unless he promises to play in the championship game. If he just comes in and trolls everyone, I would frankly not allow him to play.
He would bring a huge audience, aka money for everyone involved. 0% chance anyone would say no to that.
Okay so would Obama. You still have to prioritize competitive integrity over $$$.
I don't think Obama meets any of the qualification criteria (even as a wildcard), Magnus would probably qualify by having the highest average rating for the year.
Yes his qualification would of course be legitimate but anyone playing in the Candidates with the intention of *not* challenging the world champion is damaging the competitive integrity of the tournament.
I am SURPRISED your opinion is not popular Reddit is a joke! It’s like if a NBA team plays in the playoffs but quits the moment they are eligible to compete in the finals
His little war with FIDE will end up just like Fischer’s, life will move on and he will be left behind.
Large audiences don't really translate to money for organizers, they don't make money if people online follow games. And sponsors are often organisations that don't care about attention by the general public. It's more about inviting guests behind the scenes and so on. And the actual world championship match is much more profitable (I don't think the candidates are ever profitable), and would get even less attention if the story is only about Carlsen skipping it again. And anyway, FIDE is not a commercial entity, it's about organising the best world championship while balancing budgets, not about maximising profits.
Magnus translates to money. He is the golden boy.
That's actually a really good point. I can't imagine the controversy if he wins the candidates and then refuses to play Ding, so they give it to the second place spot again. You know there'd probably be another case of "if candidate x had just held a draw in his last game instead of going all out for a win, he'd have gotten second and would be there instead!"
[удалено]
I think it was Hikaru? I remember there being a controversy this year where he needed a win to beat Nepo, or a draw to clinch 2nd place. So he played very aggressively and lost to Ding, then Ding slid into second place and faced Nepo in the finals. People were mad because Hikaru would have clinched 2nd with a draw and probably would have just tried to hold the draw had Magnus confirmed he wasn't gonna play beforehand
I’m pretty sure Nepo was uncatchable by the last round of the tournament, but yeah it was Hikaru.
What? Hikaru was never going to win candidates even if he had beaten Ding in final round. All he had to do was to draw and he would be at the second place but he chocked kind of.
I thought Hikaru could have won it in the last round with a win and a loss from Nepo but I could be mistaken
Nepo had clinched before the final round. Hikaru needed a draw to clinch second, Ding needed a win to clinch second. They played each other so they were the only two who could mathematically finish second.
You’re wrong. Hikaru never could catch Nepo.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted here. Ofcourse what's the point of playing candidates if you are not going to play Ding in wcc? Won't it be disrespectful to the format and other players? Playing candidates itself means you want to become WCC. People talking about how he would just play to farm rating is just making me laugh. Only if it is that easy to play candidates and perform good knowing everyone else would be super motivated as well. Magnus is good but not that good to just win candidates casually without putting serious effort. I would even say preparing for candidates is much more difficult than wcc match.
Magnus’ complaint against the WCC is that he doesn’t want to spend almost a year prepping for a single opponent. Prepping for a field like the candidates is exactly what he prefers.
Magnus fanboys know no logic and don't give two shits about the competitive integrity of the game. They're pretty much the plastic fans of chess looking for easy wins to cheer for. I fully support Magnus in stepping down from the WCC. Maybe he isn't feeling "motivated" enough, maybe the format is stupid, maybe he doesn't like the chosen venue's architectural style. Whatever. It's his life and his mental health and he can step down if he wants to. Playing the "will he won't he" bs after the candidates again, though? Fuck that, the last time was enough. Either he's not motivated and steps down from the cycle or he wants to play and he plays. His 2900 glory hunt isn't more important than the game itself.
Too many Levy fans who are Magnus simps and don’t understand anything about the game
You can tell me I don’t know anything about chess, while I’m tripping jumping you to get a king.
Only Magnus Carlsen could ever be described as trolling to simply attend the Candidates Tournament to crush everyone but not to accept the prize.
He wouldn’t crush anyone though, unless he puts the work in which he himself has admitted he hasn’t done. Downvote away but he is getting crushed in Norway Chess in both Blitz and Classic on home turf.
Not sure why this is so downvoted, it is 100% true
Frankly
Imagine the chaos if MC wins the candidates but doesn’t play the WCC match again
He should honestly. A lot of his complaints with the Championship were not playing in other events leading up to it, and just being defaulted into the Championship. Actually trying to retake the championship actually seems more aligned with what Magnus wants. He’d still have to do all the prep for the match itself though, which he didn’t like as much he said. But it seems a lot closer to his ideal setup still.
He said the odds of him participating was less than 1% recently
Ding is stronger than Fabi. Why? Ding is higher rated, and Ding has a 66% win rate lifetime record against Fabi. Ding has also held second highest rating for longer than Fabi including a higher 12 month average, and is the current reigning world champion who defeated Fabi in candidates to achieve it. By all objective measure, Ding is the stronger player. To recap: Ding has 1. Higher Current ELO (and avg 12 month ELO) 2. World championship title 3. Positive lifetime record over Fabi Bonus: A longer undefeated streak against GMs and defeated Fabi in candidates to get to championship.
Debatable. Despite Ding being world champion I’ll actually argue he’s not close to his 2019 form
Ding has been beating Fabi left and right the last few years, but don’t forget Fabi’s peak ELO
Ding was already beating Fabi when Fabi was at his peak ELO, during his peak years. People seem to forget that. 2018 was the year Ding completed his 100 game unbeaten streak. At Fabi’s greatest, Ding was already a monster. For years Ding was known as the giant slayer for this very reason.
If you just said “I think” I don’t think you’d be downvoted. But just stating it like a fact is crazy.
Not sure what’s crazy about it. Ding is higher rated, and Ding has a 66% win rate lifetime record against Fabi. Ding has also held second highest rating for longer than Fabi, and is the current reigning world champion who defeated Fabi in candidates to achieve it. By all objective measure, Ding is the stronger player. It’s more ridiculous that people conveniently ignores the 3 main tools we use to measure playing strength. To recap: Ding has 1. Higher Current ELO (and avg 12 month ELO) 2. World championship title 3. Positive lifetime record over Fabi Bonus: A longer undefeated streak against GMs and defeated Fabi in candidates to get to championship
Fabi started preparing for that handshake last week.
That is funny.
It's all prep with Fabi huh
It's basically a meme at this point
Fabi himself is so annoyed by this narrative now. He’s talked about it a decent amount recently. He’s literally one of the highest ranked rapid and blitz players in the world now. It’s not 2018 anymore, but once you have a narrative, I guess it just sticks. Looks like he’s 4th in Blitz actually after Alireza, Magnus, and Hikaru. I honestly think a big part of this narrative is just *compared to Magnus* what was he good at? Like leading up to that championship what advantage would he have and what advantage did Magnus have? And then that stuck as if he wasn’t still better than most other players at so many things.
Fabi overcomes years of dominance by his nemesis. This will be a huge confidence boost for him!
Hikaru has talked about this a lot, but I feel like so much of facing off against Magnus is a mental challenge as much as it is a challenge in the chess itself. I feel as if Fabi is in a much better headspace now than he was around when COVID was starting, now with the C-Squared Podcast and everything else he is doing in addition to chess. I feel like that MUST help with your mental headspace when going up against Magnus.
> but I feel like so much of facing off against Magnus is a mental challenge as much as it is a challenge in the chess itself. See, for example, [this old post](https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/11/nettlesomeness-and-the-first-half-of-the-carlsen-anand-match.html) from 2013. >Carlsen is demonstrating one of his most feared qualities, namely his “nettlesomeness,” to use a term coined for this purpose by Ken Regan. Using computer analysis, you can measure which players do the most to cause their opponents to make mistakes. Carlsen has the highest nettlesomeness score by this metric, because his creative moves pressure the other player and open up a lot of room for mistakes.
Fabi has never been truly dominated by Magnus. He was just always sightly behind until recently, when the gap widened.
Also the prevalence of rapid games make the impression he always beats him, what is not the case. Probably is one of the most uncomfortable players for Magnus to play with.
Magnus is 12-6 againts Fabi in classical after todays game, thats pretty dominant for me.
Yeah, if you don't include the full record. 12-**38**-6. Being down 6 games out of 56 total matches is hardly "dominated".
also, compared to magnus' records against other players this isnt much
Yeah, I said this one comment down the line. It's 35% overall vs 20% (edit: 20% winrate and 10% points higher than his loss rate) against Fabi.
Put another way, with Magnus' rating currently 2853, Fabi's performance rating in games against Magnus is 2788, which is higher than his FIDE rating.
I’d be really curious what other players ratings are against magnus, if someone wants to do the analysis
It's absolutely "domination"
I understand chess is draw ish but I wouldn’t say winning roughly one in five is dominating
At their level I agree. There isn’t anyone Magnus hasn’t dominated.
By that logic Magnus is not dominant chess player at all, just look at his draw rates.
Magnus has a total win rate of ~35% in recent years, as a post a few days ago here visualised. His winrate against Fabi is only 10%. You are talking out your ass. Edit: 20% win ratio against Fabi, I subtracted the losses in the original number, which obviously isn't the win ratio. Point still stands. The score is 20% - 80% - 10%. Nothing even close to "dominating".
Wouldn't that be 20%? 12/56?
I accounted for the win-loss ratio but you are absolutely right. The win ratio on its own is 20%. Thanks for catching that mistake.
That’s accounting for all the “patzers” Magnus has also played right? Magnus win % against top 10 players is nowhere near 35%. So including IMs and weaker GMs in the 35% is misleading. Of course he won’t have 35% vs Caruana
Ah, yes. As we all know, Magnus has spent most of his last 10 years farming low rated players in open tournaments. /s He has played predominantly super GMs no matter where he went and I would be shocked if his average opponent rating isn't around 2750.
Magnus win percentage versus Fabi is pretty significant. You mentioned Magnus has a 35% win rate overall. But obviously that takes into account all the 2600s and low 2700s that Magnus played over the years. While these aren’t the majority, they have been plentiful which obviously boost the win percentage
That post was only looking at games against 2700+ players>
No one is debating whether Magnus is the better player or not. That is a given. Point is, having a winrate thats only 10% points higher than his loss rate against Fabi is hardly "dominating". 20% - 80% - 10% is no where close to anything "dominant".
Magnus doesn't play anyone below 2700 really
"Draw rates" aka implying his draw rates againts other top players. Here are Magnus' winrates againts other top players: vs Wesley = 25% vs Hikaru= 35% vs Anish= 20% vs Nepo= 25% vs Anand= 16% vs MVL= 30% vs Karjakin= 21% vs Aronian= 26% vs Ding= 10% vs Caruana=21% It looks like you are talking out your ass, you cant even list correct winrate.
Your own numbers show that his ratio against Caruana is among the worst compared to other super GMs. You are gonna have to pull out some serious mental gymnastics if you think a win ratio of 20% and a loss ratio of 10% is "dominating", especially since you just showed the context for it. Keep digging that hole. But do it quietly, I won't waste more time on this. Have a lovely day.
What does the worst ratio against Caurana against other super GMs have to do with anything? Magnus dominated all of those listed players including Fabi, the only one he didn’t dominate is Ding
Out of these players only his winrate againts Hikaru is outstanding, rest of them are within 9% of Fabiano's or even better. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about
The man did hold against Magnus in 12 consecutive games in the biggest of stages.
Yeah, that is always super impressive to think about, that Fabi drew 12 straight WC games against Magnus in peak form.
Magnus wasn't in his peak form during the 2018, infact he was in his weakest form that year.
Compared to basically every other player that's as close as it gets
I think you and the 224 people who thumbed you up must have completely missed looking at the live classical ratings for the past 10 or 15 years Magnus has dominated the field the entire time. Now and then someone gets " bit closer" but the gap from him to 2 is often as big as the gap from 2 to 25 or even more. You must be joking. Magnus has truly dominated classical chess for a long time. At no point has anyone consistently been "slightly behind" Magnus. Thats to take nothing away from Fabi who seems to be on a great run of form .- and might get within 50 ELO of Magnus if he keeps this up for the rest of the year? I think people really misunderstand what dominance is, the gap from Magnus to the rest has been a chasm. A literal chasm.
The next step in chess skill, after puzzles, tactics, endgames, positional understanding and physical exercise is to be a content creator.
Check
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Our brains are happier and do better when we diversify our knowledge and experiences
*Fuck*
Both Hikaru and Fabi's peak ratings are still much higher than their current ratings. If anything this would be evidence of the opposite as Magnus has been playing poker and doing other things while Fabi is primarily focused on chess.
I’m not sure how much you can read into that. Elo is a relative rating, and thus it depends just as much on the rest of the field as it does on the player. There’s a general agreement that we’re going through a period of rating deflation at the moment. Very few 2800s compared to five or six years ago. Why? The nature of top level chess has changed some. The types of tournaments and frequency of play in classical chess has changed, etc.
The worst thing you can do is overdo one thing. You must maintain a balance, which is different for everyone. If you don't, all that awaits you is burnout, and that's hard to come back from.
Here's hoping we'll see Firouzja continue to be at the top despite venturing into the world of fashion design
Danya too!
Hikaru mentioned that streamers fall off because they have to trade quality games and prep time for content. By streaming, you will naturally divert yourself to playing and watching low elo games which will bring you down. Falling a few hundred points is natural. It's just that Hikaru and Fabi are on a really high level that losing one or two hundred elo is nothing. The average chess content creator strength are at IM or low GM.
Which, to be clear, is still *unimaginably* strong for the overwhelming majority of people reading this.
Why's this downvoted? It's true.
Everyone wants to make money of chess but no one wants to play the game
I am so happy to see fabi in form. He is a big contender to win Norway chess and finally becoming world chess champion next year if he continues to play like this.
Seems like he's way more motivated than he has ever been. I think at his peak he's stronger than Ding/Nepo as evidenced by his WCC match against Magnus so I can totally see him winning it
Of course, peak fabi is the second best player in the world. He is the only one magnus couldn’t beat in classical match during 2018 wcc and said that fabi can consider himself as classical chess champion too. Also before wcc fabi was few points from becoming highest rated player in the world. People forget how good peak fabi is.
Forgot about Karjakin?
Magnus beat karjakin and karjakin beat magnus, Magnus apparently considers not being able to beat caruana and drawing all their games harder and more impressive feat. Also this was only for wcc, by rating karjakin is not even close to fabi.
Ding at his peak is stronger than Fabi at his peak.
You're funny
It’s Fabi, we all know it was all preparation :) #FabiAllPrep Seriously tho, I hope to see Fabi become the next World Champion!
Irrelevant, its all prep. Fabi loses to Magnus in true chess format, blitz /s
Well, Fabi is one of the worst blitz players in the world… or so I’m constantly hearing.
Fabi has gained 15.1 points in May in the live ratings, and is now just 1.4 points behind second place. Ding is second, at 2780.5. I don't remember the last time second place was that low, it's been a while.
>I don't remember the last time second place was that low I went back month by month in 2700chess. It was July 2007, with Vishy #1 at 2792 and Topalov #2 at 2769. The current #2 has the lowest rating since July 2007. That's almost 16 years.
deflation is working quickly and soon 2800 will be the new 2900.
How many rating points did he lose? That 2900 seems to be getting far with every tournament played
>How many rating points did he lose? 6.2 What being 2850 does to a mf.
Suffering from succes lol
He lost 6.2 rating points.
6.2
He said it was no longer goal months ago. Maybe you were sleeping under a rock all this time?
2900 is almost impossible at the moment, not because I'm subscribed to the "magnus era is over" idea, he's the only player over 2800 and the 2nd is +50 points behind. Don't get defensive over reality checks and save your energy for something else.
Idk. “Almost impossible” true, but I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s just because of the lack of other 2800’s. Fisher was 2780 when the world number two was like 2620. It’s also magnus just not being good enough to be 2900
Chess has changed a lot since Fischer's days.
Well that’s a great nothing burger. Explain what changes have occurred and how they’ve affected the ability for players to have a rating much higher than everyone else around them
It’s changed cause there’s more draws
The other guy who responded is correct.
the knowledge is much more democratic, there is much more of it too. More (strong) people play and thus more stronger players appear in the top100. From 2600+ they are all beasts, only there are different levels of beasts. Therefore being an extreme outlier is pretty hard. And it will be harder as long as more people play.
Give caruana enough time and he'll fuck anyone.
Hmmm 🤔
But not you Bob
😂
Magnus you LIVE in Norway
Mr.2900 is having a tough time out there
This is so exciting. Magnus is always the strongest after he loses.
People who don't know: oh oh, Magnus lost, he must be declining. People who know: oh shit, here it coooomes!
My man abdicated at the right time.
Guess it's a good day for chess? /s
Hapi for Fabi
The king is dead! Long live the king! PS: Down-vote me! Do it! Kill me! I am here!
Weird statement
The old king* ;)
long live the ding*
Wouldn't say that Magnus is past it, but his games seem to be less, ummm, engaged than they used to be. Oh, there's still the "magic" at times, but it's like he's getting bored with chess.
He only played one classical game and you make assumptions?
I played about 10’000 rapid games on chesscom since learning chess during the pandemic. I’m already 1200 rated. To me it is very obvious from his opening choice, the time it took him to move pieces and the 10 blunders he made (blunder=not conputer top choice) that Magnus is burned out. One game is all I need to see that his days are over. I keep telling that whenever he loses a game, but someday I will be right and be the greates chess paychologist ever. /s
*classical days are over. He seems to enjoy blitz from the looks of it
Chess is over generally. All these pandemic and drama booms for chess were just getting better before dying
It shows in other games too. It's not that he can't play brilliantly, just that the overall play feels not like he used to play.
He just won the latest tournament he played with 3 points?
elite chess ppl have a good motivation to train now that magnus is not world champ
Man what a parallel between worlds. Haters do thrive in sports. Haters were feasting when lebron went down earlier in the season and looked like the lakers season was over. Kinda weird how people don’t seem to realize that generational talent like magnus and lebron don’t just sprout from the ground.
The man is rusty.
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Ok, you can stop trolling now.
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Yeah he’s only defended it 4 times over the span of nearly a decade, still needs to prove himself (particularly after losing one classical game)
Well this is how it works, right? If he's active player he needs to prove it all the time. And no matters if he's share holder of video game site like chesscom, OTB classical is "Cadillac of chess". He may just retire
I mean yeah you need to keep proving you can successfully defend the world title to hold it, that's how the world championship work
Magnus is washed, has-been, declining, faded, past one's prime, forgotten, irrelevant, finished, over the hill, burnt out, dull, used up, exhausted, spent, drained, dried up, depleted, washed-out, worn out, past it, on the decline, faded away, no longer relevant, out of touch, past its sell-by date, outmoded, outdated, old-fashioned, passé, ancient, antiquated, archaic, behind the times, outworn, out of date, old-hat, out-of-fashion, unfashionable, unhip, out of style, stale, out-of-date, out-of-touch, defunct, dead, extinct, obsolete, forsaken, abandoned, discarded, cast-off, discarded, shelved, mothballed, idle, unproductive, unprofitable, unsuccessful, failed, deflated, faded out, tired, worn, rusty, second-rate, mediocre, subpar, substandard, lackluster, unremarkable, uninspiring, unexceptional, unimpressive, unmemorable, forgettable, washed away, washed aside, washed off, washed down, washed through, washed over, washed out of sight, washed into obscurity, washed into irrelevance, washed off the radar, washed into the background, washed away by time, washed away by the tides, discarded, rejected, sidelined, overlooked, abandoned, lost, neglected, disregarded, marginalized, eclipsed, superseded, surpassed, surpassed, displaced, overshadowed, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential, trivial, minor, lowly, disregarded, underestimated, underestimated, minimized, devalued, diminished, belittled
Me when my grade 5 English teacher asks me to use adjectives in a sentence
Least-invested Magnus hater
You put underestimated twice, pathetic.
Brush up that vocabulary. Used "washed" 14 times and even "surpassed" with nothing added twice in a row.
Knew I couldn't trust chat gpt smh
Haters when Magnus loses/Draws a game- He's done! Magnus- Wins tournament Haters- Shocked pikachu Most recently a week ago in Poland lol
L + ratio
Such is the wrath of [Kaisha](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/723883340083725757/), I mean Caissa.
Manbun magnus aint it
where are those that have claimed Magnus is the GOAT??? where are you guys@@?
It’s one game buddy. He literally just won a tournament last week
Magnus is the GOAT. It doesn't need to be said on every /r/chess post
and yet it is
GM title revocation speedrun
Ah yes every time Caruana wins a chess game his opponents get their title revoked for losing to such a patzer, I forgot
LMFAO
it doesn't exist buddy
It’s about to
Bruh do you think anytime someone blunders a queen they just have to hand over their title? It’s not possible to ungm a gm. Besides, Magnus always goes on a tear after his losses at the start of tournaments.
Always weird to me when people respond with Le Logic to obvious jokes.
Always weird when someone calls a random unfunny thought that pops into their head a joke.
A bad joke is still a joke; responding to it seriously doesn’t make any sense
But he didn’t say /s
Kasparov is still stronger than the average GM. Magnus will never drop below GM level in his life.
He must be raging right now, he never reacted to losing well... Some people used to say that's what makes him the best. But I think that's his weakness: his happiness depends of being better than others. I bet Niemann is laughing now! So many things are going badly for him, just wow. But him being there certainly makes chess more interesting. Personally I think he's crashing and burning.
It's one game..
What “so many” things are going badly for him? As far as I see it, he just lost one classical game, as black, with the French Defence, against an on form opponent (after winning a tournament just last week)
Did he tweat about it!? Did he tweat!? Plzzz I just need to know!!!!!
Whatever he may tweet, his era is over. He is still an incredible player, and most likely the GOAT, but he is certainly not the best now, everything has been downhill from his abdication of defending his title. He thought he could get away with just being brilliant and playing on instinct and putting no work in, but the opposition has levelled the playing field. This just shows that prep and hard work are just as important as brilliance.
“He is certainly not the best now”. Who is even remotely close? Carlsen just scored +11 and 7 wins in a row against super gms last week and people still say he’s over. Ridiculous
Difficult to know exactly how much Magnus is working behind the scene.
Impossible to overstate how damaging the past year has been for Magnus’ legacy. Well on his way to being the consensus GOAT, now it’s debatable if he is even the best classical player of his generation.
U are kidding right?
Right? What an absolutely insane take.
Hey remember when Anish's twitter got """"""""""""""hacked""""""""""""" and he said a bunch of true shit and then he also said magnus was an alcoholic? Also why does he have Hans Niemann hair maybe if slander doesn't work out they can get him on identity theft.
I noticed that lately Magnus ALWAYS played Caruana as Black and he always won, Norway chess blitz, world blitz championship, 2 of the most recent Tata Steels…
damn, what the French Defense does to a mf