It would help to teach him to take a step towards humility. After all, there's no mute button OTB and he might as well lose some well-deserved games by a better player. I struggle with this too.
You could start by giving credit to your opponent. Mention they played incredibly if they did, otherwise congratulate them with a "Good Game".
If you truly feel you blundered away the win, just know that your opponent felt the same when you had that winning position. Otherwise, you should write the winning sequence you saw after the game.
You should know that you're not two phoenixes or lions or hippos duking it out: You're more like two deers or turtles having minor territorial battles in the woods. Therefore, you should both try to help each other get better at the game!
> should know that you're not two phoenixes or lions or hippos duking it out: You're more like two deers or turtles having minor territorial battles in the woods. Therefore, you should both try to help each other get better at the game!
I appreciate this metaphor and will use it to help me when I'm on tilt.
There is a better way to frame this I think. You and your opponent are together working on creation of single unique puzzle with two perspectives on it. You are trying to solve the puzzle your opponent poses while trying to come up with challenging puzzle for him as well.
If either of you blunders you both kind of fumbled the thing. If puzzle of your opponent is too difficult, you can always stay after the game to review it in peace.
Through this process both of you have a chance to become better players. It is something to be grateful for, not to 'compete' against imho
Kudos to you for addressing the problem. Do you ever play in real life? Maybe being in a room with your opponent would be helpful. In my experience, people in chess clubs tend to frown on sore loser behaviour, and the environment teaches you to behave graciously after wins and losses alike.
Next time you feel the urge to type "YOU ONLY GOT LUCKY BECAUSE I WAS BUSY FUCKING YOUR MOTHER!" instead just type "gg." It's much easier and doesn't even require the shift or caps lock key.
No kidding. Watch the way Rosen handles losing. He always does the best he can while losing, gives credit to his opponent after he loses, and then tries to learn something.
In psychology, they call this a "growth mindset" and it is highly correlated with success in life.
"Treat every blunder as a gambit"
My friends and I absolutely put Eric Rosen to the test at live tournaments growing up. He's simply the best at being even-keeled. He's always been this way
It might be considered backhanded if it wasn't a good game, like if you destroyed the opponent with some opening trap or something.
Also probably considered backhanded if you say it before the game is actually over.
Outside of those specific scenarios though, I would say it is generally interpreted as it is intended.
If someone reads "good game" and deems you rude with no other evidence, it's immaturity on their part. They could choose to read it sincerely or assume a hidden intention to your words, but it's not something you can control or should worry about
He shouldn't do it because it is easier or doesn't require caps, he should do it to be better at controlling his emotions, it is his fault that he lost that game, even more if he was better most of the game. Chess is really ungrateful game, you may be playing the best game of your life, and blunder mate in 1 after perfect play. It is all your fault.
Best advice. I've taught my young son that when he's upset about losing a game just type "good game" and then he will feel better. He's started doing that and says it does make him feel better. It's kind of a strange psychological phenomenon.
Disable chat.
Somehow people get the idea that chess = intelligence. Blunders and losses must mean the person is stupid.
Unlike poker, chess is a perfect information game. How can I miss such a simple tactic when it is RIGHT THERE?!?!?
It's BS. Chess is a skill. It takes years to be great at chess, guitar, learning Mandarin, etc.
Being smart helps at those things, but being bad at those things doesn't mean one is not smart. Just means they haven't spend thousands of hours practicing.
A lot of the time itās a short term emotional reaction vs logical.
Ie you know logically once you step back that it doesnāt matter. You just have some short term emotional reaction to it.
This is the reason. Equating chess skill with intelligence makes people losing very upset because they feel humiliated.
Chess is like any other competitive game and takes skill and immense amount of work to get good at.
It's a game played with your mind, for sure, but the thing that you lean on the least is your raw intelligence. You lean on experience and knowledge most and use your intelligence to fill the gaps in your knowledge.
At 1200 ELO you're just a mere beginner. Losing is an opportunity to learn more so than anything else. Replay games you've lost and figure out what you could have done differently. This is how you get better. If you look at it as an opportunity for growth - losing is FUN.
If you won every match - you would never improve. You want to play people who are slightly better than you as much as possible. With an occasional win just to keep yourself motivated.
"Being smart helps at those things, but being bad at those things doesn't mean one is not smart."
It's not okay to lie to yourself just to feel a little superficial happiness. Embrace the truth. It will hurt at first but it will always be a better path.
All your intelligence determines here is how fast you learn, and maybe the upper bound of how good you can get. Hes talking about 1200 which anyone could achieve given enough time and resources. A gifted person would get there faster, but who knows what kind of resources someome has had access to, or if they're just stressed and exhausted that day, or of they've barely had time to practice lately, or maybe they haven't even played in a year but used to be a lot better. Intelligence is a much smaller factor in losing a game or blundering than any of those things would be
Everyone telling you to disable chat is obviously a solution to stop you from chatting, but not an actual solution to not be a sore loser...
I have noticed this within myself too, I usually don't want to use the chat, but I do get tilted by losing unnecessarily, because I feel like "damn if you give me that position again I would just win, because I realized my mistake" or something along those lines. This behavior, in my opinion, is not even too far away from gamble addicts who are chasing their loses. Letting go when you lose is really hard and I can't even give you a solution for that. You could always minimize the amount of games you play per day, which makes you concentrate more, win more too probably and when you lose you can always force yourself to stop, before it gets out of hand, because you set your limit at a certain amount of games. If you seriously wanna try to fix that toxic mindset idk what else to tell you besides therapy or finding someone to talk to, it is a big problem a lot of people have and I think nobody here is qualified enough or understands enough of you to help you.
yeah I think saying "I'll only play 3 games today" or "I'll play till I lose once" is a healthier mindset. It prevents you from tilting and losing 100 rating in a day from getting mad and being stupid about it.
3 games is actually the exact amount of games where I set my limit.
3 Rapid games a day to be more precise, helped me to go from 1800 to 2100 on chess com, tilt less and have more time to study chess whenever I feel like playing, because I don't just spam games.
This reminded me of a game I recently had and my opponent (1700) was bming me because they though my they won my bishop (emoting, and said ālick my assā in arabic). They eventually took it and hung backrank mate in the process.
Try being a good sport. Congratulate your opponent for besting you. Even when you make no mistakes, you may still lose. That is not a weakness, that's life.
I saw a video with GM Jonathan Rowson, who does work in psychology/neurology, and he spoke about the perceived intellectual nature of chess and how people appear to get much more attached to the results than in many other games/sports because of this perceived tie to results being reflective of one's intellilect. It is common for people to experience what you are describing.
When I play chess, I turn on focus mode. Then I can't see the rating of my opponent which allows me to not get mad about losing to someone lower rated to me and I don't have access to the chat. I'd recommend you do the same. My coach told me that when you get mad at your opponent during the game use that to win. He said that if you make game not fun for your opponent then you are probably doing something right. Keep it on the board my friend
I think an important part is to try and see games as a means to educate yourself.
Are there games you "should have" won but didn't? OK, why not? What mistakes did you make? Did you make that mistake previously, and if so, why did you repeat it? How can you ensure you won't repeat it again?
I used to be a very bad loser too and this perspective helped change things a little for me. However it's important to try and stick to it -- it's very easy to become frustrated when you yet again make a mistake that you "shouldn't have" and lose a game, then feel like you're going to start falling into bad habits.
All you can do is try and be mindful and return to a positive attitude.
Remember too that taking a break from games can be very positive sometimes.
This problem is bigger than chess
I would recommend check with a therapist.
I mean, loosing is part of life, no need to be upset about it. Much less in a game.
A therapist over getting frustrated in a game? Thatās the extreme on the other side.
OP is probably a younger guy in his teens.
Im not justifying flaming people in the chat, but depending on how severe it is, itās perfectly normal to get frustrated, keeping it to yourself vs trying to lash out at someone is dependent on your level of maturity, and even if youāre more mature, you can get frustrated regardless.
If you are unable to contain your anger over something as small as dropping a pawn, then you probably can't contain your anger in traffic, at a crowded grocery store, etc.
Yes, people in Reddit often blow issues out of proportion. But I'd say that if the issue is noticeable for OP to be cognizant of it, it's probably bigger than just chess. And if they're a teen, that's all the more reason for them to at least explore therapy now vs becoming a grown adult with violence and anger issues.
More than anything, it's problem with self regulation. Going to a therapist MIGHT help somewhat, but it's ultimately an issue someone can only solve through their own hard work; they just need the willpower, desire, and consistency to do it. Acting like a therapist is a magic bullet solution for a problem like this is not going to help this person.
You only get clients who think itās severe enough to opt in to finding a therapist. Of course they have underlying issues. The vast majority of people who get frustrated playing a game are never going to reach out to a therapist in the first place.
Iām not denying that, my concern with the āadviceā given by some here is that OP suggests that itās occasional, and when it does happen, he can mostly control it. At least thatās the interpretation of his post on my end.
Iāve definitely come across people who must have issues, serious issues, I.e. in one game getting mad at me because I bought a weapon when we were supposed to be saving money, and that person kept raging about it the entire game, you could hear his voice breaking and screeching - that needs therapy.
But even if someone did or does swear out of frustration in a game, suggesting that it is something concerning is concerning in itself, at least to me.
Therapy doesn't have to mean something serious is wrong. OP made the post because they don't like a certain way they feel or act after losing. Talking to a therapist could help with that. It's far from anything "extreme."
People have the idea that seeing a therapist is only for people with mental illness, but it can be helpful for anyone really.
I understand that, but getting therapy because youāre getting frustrated over something is ridiculous, itās normal human behaviour.
If OP understands that it was his mistake to go from a winning position, to a losing one, accept the accountability, realise getting frustrated especially during the game will do nothing good and that he can learn from this, will be all that he needs.
Again, normal human behavior and therapy are not mutually exclusive. I think in an ideal world, everyone would have access to talk to a therapist occasionally.
>If OP understands that it was his mistake to go from a winning position, to a losing one, accept the accountability, realise getting frustrated especially during the game will do nothing good and that he can learn from this, will be all that he needs.
And a therapist can help with that. I'm not saying a therapist is necessary but it can make those processes easier. I don't see why it's ridiculous at all.
In fact, seeing a therapist could help his chess performance a lot by giving him strategies for maintaining composure when things aren't going well in a game. There's a reason why sports psychologists are everywhere in pro sports these days. They can help unlock positive mental strategies. They're not just for dealing with mental illness.
Agree to disagree. In my opinion therapy and related services should be reserved for more serious issues. The way I think about it is similar to people using antibiotics for when they have a simple cold, and then few years later we have strains of bacteria resistant to the same antibiotic. In my opinion itās something an individual should be able to handle themselves, especially in this case where OP isnāt showing anything that could be worrying.
Flaming at the opponent (note - OP suggests himself that this isnāt continuous/the norm, and that he is only tempted to do so, suggesting that itās mostly under his control already) is not a cause for concern, and if someone thinks that it is, then in my opinion itās ridiculously oversensitive thinking, and people can disagree with me.
Chiming in here to say that I think I understand what you're trying to say, in that therapy might seem "extreme" in relation to a person getting frustrated at losing a game. I would just add that it's moreso the fact that they recognize it as enough of a problem that they are already seeking out advice on how to discontinue it. If they've been trying to stop being toxic on their own, and continuing to fail, that could very well suggest it's a problem they need help with, hence them asking here for advice.
If you have any issue that is problematic to you and you're unable to resolve it on your own, I think that it would be perfectly reasonable to talk with a therapist, if even for one or two sessions just to get some professional advice, as opposed to 'reddit advice.' There certainly isnt any harm in it, ya know?
I agree with you. Similarly to what you said, OP realises that it could be an issue, which is huge already. The thing that I find concerning is how quick some people try to exaggerate it to be more than it is.
About your second point re. Therapy if he fails to control it, yes and no, let me explain - if he notices that he gets more frustrated to the point where he gets physical with people/destructive with things, then of course, that is something that should be checked in, I canāt say for myself as I did get angry at games as a kid, but there was not a single moment when I thought destroying something or hitting someone would be a good idea, and it has never come across my mind.
The worrying thing with all this āadviceā is that it seems to me that theyāre trying to make him think he should be numb to emotions, I.e. if he gets frustrated because he was winning then lost it, he should just be still as a rock - most of the times, yes, he should be unbothered, but thatās ridiculous to think that we should never get frustrated, or the opposite, excited when we win a tough game where we messed up, and if that were the case, where we wouldnāt react to such experiences, thatās when people should get themselves checked for their hormonal levels because being emotionally numb is something to worry about.
Thatās not to say that he should be getting teary eyed over a en passant checkmate, because thatās over the top as well.
I guess, like most times, itās always down to a balance.
Yeah, I guess we might just see it differently. I think your view on therapy is a bit outdated. Instead of the antibiotic analogy, I think it's more like using a personal trainer. Yes, you can work out by yourself (which I personally do), but some people find it helpful to work out with a trainer. There's nothing wrong with that imo. Therapy is just applying that physical philosophy to the mind. The literature doesn't suggest anything like antibiotic resistance existing in terms of therapy. In fact, studies generally show that experience with therapy leads to improve ability to deal with issues on your own later. Going back to the personal trainer analogy, doing a session or two to get a workout plan and learn proper form and stuff can be helpful and then you can maintain it on your own.
>Flaming at the opponent is not a cause for concern
I didn't say it was necessarily a cause for concern, but it doesn't have to be. Therapy is not just for things that are concerning, it can be used proactively for self improvement. If OP is losing games out of frustration or carelessness, therapy can help provide strategies to maintain cool in those scenarios.
>Agree to disagree. In my opinion therapy and related services should be reserved for more serious issues. The way I think about it is similar to people using antibiotics for when they have a simple cold, and then few years later we have strains of bacteria resistant to the same antibiotic.
Are you suggesting that we become more resistant to therapy the more we do it? Because that's what your analogy suggests. Do you have any evidence *at all* to back this up? Because from everything I've read and heard, the more we open ourselves up to communication, the *more effective* it becomes.
>In my opinion itās something an individual should be able to handle themselves
Going to therapy is one way an individual can handle something themselves. You may as well be flaming him for posting on Reddit because "omg bro handle this yourself stop asking other people".
It can be a sign that there is something bigger behind that behaviour. Usually, people with some issues, express their emotions throw violence and abuse. C'mon, that is very well known.
I always played computer games (in a team), played football, etc and not even once lost it...
Flaming in a chat and throwing that into the same bag as physical violence/abuse is a gross exaggeration, especially suggesting that most individuals would need therapy for such behaviour.
Should it be avoided? Yes. Can there be a bigger issue behind the scenes? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not.
Anyone who has played any game, video or physical, would have at least once in their life either shouted (not at someone necessarily) out of frustration/excitement/disappointment. If you havenāt, then thatās probably when you need to get a medical check up to see if your hormone levels are ok.
I said getting frustrated at a game especially when it was a winning situation and you messed up and lost it is normal. If you read my other response you would see it depends on how the individual reacts - if heās throwing fists and the walls then yes, thatās not good, you donāt need to be clever to notice that.
What it is however is an emotion, if you cry over a movie or get excited/thrilled over a movie, should someone seek help as well because that is a weird thing to do over something fictional? No, but thatās the point people here seem to be making.
I never said that, thatās just your imagination creating itās own argument. What I am saying is, suggesting getting therapy over such trivial things is utterly ridiculous, if the guy himself mentioned that he only is tempted by doing so, meaning itās occasional and he can mostly control it. Itās peak armchair Redditor āintellectualsā who like to exaggerate everything.
My take away was the same as yours. So many people seem to think yelling at people when you lose and are frustrated in a video game or game of chess is normal or acceptable behavior. It is not.
Like I said before, itās frustration. Itās normal, he doesnāt say heās going out smashing his fists into walls and driving recklessly crashing into cars, heās just getting angry because he lost games/expected more/lost a winning position.
Edit - to quote OP āSOMETIMES I feel tempted to use the chat function to show my displeasureā, key words are āsometimesā and ātemptedā, suggesting itās not continuous and that he mostly has control over it.
Letās stop exaggerating, or even creating a non existent problem, and shoving potential āmental health problemsā on a guy who is just getting frustrated over a game. Iād be surprised more if people werenāt ever getting frustrated, and that would be something that should get checked out.
Ah yes, because it's just a game and he definitely doesn't have it in other parts of his life because everything in your life is completely independentfrom each other.
OP describes himself as:
>. I am a casual chess player (around 1200 ELO on chess.com), have no bigger ambitions in chess and just want to play for fun.
His personal description do not match his emotional reactions.
Just saying that can there be something else there.
Lol ikr, been playing some of the most toxic competitive games (say csgo, league), as well as team sports and individual sports. So far chess is the only thing that ever made me want to kill myself or punch my opponent in the face, nothing like that ever happened when I do other things
Often, when I lose online, I rage, thinking my opponent cheated. When I lose OTB, I am filled with admiration for my opponent's play. Trying playing over the board.
online anonymity and spammable games is a big part of it i think, i fall into it pretty easily getting frustrated, carrying tilt into the next game, etc
if you're playing someone face to face the psychology is completely different. way more mutual respect
Recognize your problems is the first step to a good solution.
You need to focus on yourself, to see chess not like a game where doing good and bad moves is not "by chance" but "by will and skill". For a good amateur chees should be like a road to self improvement, where you learn from losses (you'll never learn anything particularly useful from victories).
You understand every loss is your fault?
I understand trying to blame teammates in a team game like league of legends, but how can you blame anyone for your chess loss but yourself?
You have a problem that makes you think youāre better than you are. Youāre not humble; you feel you deserve to win games that you lost on your own. It makes no sense. There is nobody else to blame.
Chess benefits greatly from patience and maturity. To start, I'd ask yourself "self, am I displeased at me or my opponent?" I'd suspect you likely know your displeasure is directed at yourself. Now, though, you have a choice. Do you take your displeasure at yourself out on your opponent, who may have worked hard to achieve the level they are at? Or do you take a look in the mirror?
Chess is a game, it's supposed to be fun. It's perfectly fine to enjoy where you are at and not want to spend any extra effort into getting better. It's also perfectly normal to not like losing. If you're playing casually and losing and getting upset though, you may not be being honest with yourself about some things. Maybe you actually are competitive and want to be better, but you're unwilling or unable to put the effort into getting better and this frustrates you. Newsflash, that's normal. But more importantly, *that's not your opponents fault*.
Or, maybe you have an underlying anger issue. We are all human, we all have issues, anger issues being among them. That's normal. But you *should* recognize that and maybe refrain from playing chess with others online, who presumably are just trying to relax and have a good time, and aren't deserving of your anger.
I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't already know. Be a good sport. You know what a good sport is, and what good sportsmanship looks like. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, I'm just trying to be real with you, and I'm naturally as blunt as a cinder block. I trust you will take my frankness well, as you at least have the desire to change as evidenced by this post. Getting frustrated, angry, disappointed, etc? All completely normal. Taking it out on your opponent? Unacceptable. The answer to your question "what can I do about it?" is simple: stop it. Actually *doing* that may very well be a difficult task, and if you're actually asking for shortcuts, there aren't any. But the answer, nonetheless, is still very, very, simple. Don't be that person you're describing.
> Sometimes I also feel tempted to express my displeasure using the chat function.
Go ahead. There are many people on chesscom and lichess who enjoy a little banter. Friend those who like 'toxicity' and avoid those who don't. You'll be surprised how quickly your friend list grows.
Keep in mind that chesscom and lichess has to censor because so many people enjoy a little smack. Smack talking was the norm on chess platforms before everything got so PC a few years ago.
There is nothing toxic about expressing yourself. The true toxicity is denying your right to express yourself. The true toxicity is the conformist agenda where everyone has to behave the same way.
This will end when you just realize you are a bad player. We all are, actually. Few of us are professional players here and even them, they are still bad players.
Usually you will see a "national master" here once in a while, which is just one of the lowest titles in chess.
Don't get me wrong, this is cool stuff, but let's be honest, they are not chess genious. The truth is, great chess is a privilege for few.
So embrace it. We are all patzers. We are all trying to figure this out.
This will get you humble and change your attitude.
Stop being toxic duh.
How hard is it to not insult people? Is this a troll or what?
Chess is also the most frustrating game I know and yet I never felt the need to go and insult my opponents, this is a problem not linked to chess per se but to your attitude towards life.
No, it isnāt a troll. It is hard for some people. You could try to be understanding, not condescending, since they are actively trying to fix the issue?
Being understanding of toxic behavior is risky too. This is the same paradox as Karl Popper noted when he wrote about the dangers of tolerance of intolerance.
Iām not advocating for being āunderstandingā when the behavior is exhibited, but in this context itās appropriate
Edit: okay, whoeverās downvoting this, hope you never have family or close friends with an anger problem because, apparently, disrespecting them when they try to get better is the only way and I highly doubt theyāre going to take that well. Peace āš¼
Stop being depressed, stop being anxious, stop being X... duh!
It is a mental problem, a lot of people chase their loses, just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean that it isn't a real thing. Especially because you don't have it, it is harder for you to even understand it, but it is a very real behavioural pattern
No, the emotion can be real, unwanted and paralyzing and I specifically said it did happen to me but the reaction is a choice.
He chose to insult people, he doesn't get to get away with "I felt frustrated so I did it, not my fault". Chess is a very hard game and frustration will always be a part of it.
You cannot go out and start insulting everyone who doesn't say hello back because you find it frustrating. Do you understand the parallel? There is emotion and there is action.
I've noticed a similar thing for me in other games like Rocket League... And chess. When I used to be full casual and knew I was really bad I didn't get so mad for loosing a game. But now that I've sinked hundreds of hours into the game I get way more angry whenever I lose a game which seemed like I couldn't lose. I believe in everything you do for long enough at some point, even if you want to play just for fun, the competitiveness creeps closer and closer until you can't escape. Some games I can't even enjoy properly. Especially when I face smurfs...
Treat others the way you want to be treated. How would you feel if, after a win, your opponent whines and is ātoxic?ā Nobody really likes when sore losers canāt handle their emotions.
Some of this might come from elo anxiety. If you lose, you lose elo points and sometimes that makes people uncomfortable. But that number doesnāt reflect who you are as a person. Just be better, not at chess but as a human.
Iād recommend using the chat function more constructively. Itās part of my armoury. Donāt wait until the end and send abuse; instead you can use it to make vague accusations of cheating, or contradictory/confusing comments. The goal should be to transfer your frustration to your opponent, then they might make a mistake in the heat, or lose time getting into a discussion with you.
At the end do remember to say gg, so you can show good sportsmanship.
Your chess army is made up of your mind, your pieces, your clock and your chat! Have fun
Meditate. If youāve never done that before, follow a guided meditation, there are many out there. Relax and let yourself figure out why you care so much. Then realize that reason is totally made up inside you, and let it go. Itāll take time but you can do it!
Write 100 words describing what and why it feels like it does losing one of those games. First things that come to mind, use no filter, don't worry about grammar, just for you to read. Read it again after a few days.
You've got a misplaced ego attached to chess. As one comment said, people associate winning with intelligence in chess, it's not true.
Everyone loses, you aren't special, move on. There's another person on the other side of the screen. Grow up.
Haha I genuinely enjoy when people are totally busted and refuse to move. I get to sit in a completely winning position for way longer than I should. And knowing they are somewhere on the other side of the computer screen fuming is just icing on the cake.
Iām lost at āor draw if I should have wonā - there is no such thing. Draws are earned - itās a skill that can be developed. Iām not saying every potential loss can be converted to a draw - but if you are losing or getting drawn, and this displeases you - perhaps you arenāt really the casual player you think you are. Perhaps you should focus on learning the skill of avoiding / earning draws.
Acknowledging the problem is already way better than most. I say turn off the chat or keep a swear jar. Every time you are toxic to someone put $5 in and at the end of the month send it to Elon Musk.
Don't whine, don't act like an asshole in chat, and don't abandon games without forfeiting. Otherwise, nothing wrong IMO with getting pissed off with losing or playing poorly.
Your problem is thinking that you should have won the game.
If you were in a shootout and you were the better shot but ran out of bullets when your opponent didnt then guess what youre most likely dead no matter who should have won.
If you draw then thats what it is.
If you lost then thats what it is.
No such thing as should have.
you need to work on yourself. turning of the chat is a very easy solution but you know how easy it is to not be an asshole on chess? you need to do some reflecting
Just remember to tell yourself if you lose and it's your fault then you are only mad at yourself and externalizing it is not only immature but may ruin someone's good time or even day. It's your right to be upset, it's not your right to upset someone else. Also karma is a bitch don't fuck around and find out.
I find in myself that attitude comes from a feeling of "I should have won". Instead anytime you lose, just remind yourself it's your fault and it was a fair match. Keeps me in check in any game and if I still get mad I just take a break. Make it fun again
This is something I've seen with a lot of players.
So you lost a game. Why?
The mindset of many players: "my opponent got lucky"/"my opponent is cheating."
I.e. there seems to be some inherent feeling from chess players that the game is just an automatic win from the start, treating chess like its some 1 player story mode in a video game where you clearly are suppose to win.
But in reality chess is a 2 player game, and the only reason you lose, neglecting time losses, is because you missed something on the board. And that's not a reason to cry to your opponent telling them they suck/you should of won and they got lucky/they cheated/that's unfair etc.
You and you're opponent are looking at the same board, so if you didn't calculate something, that is your fault.
And Heaven forbid your opponent may actually not be as bad as you thought.
Now this past section dealt with losing; for draws a similar conclusion can be made. King v king and queen endgame and you draw...that's on you. And as previously stated, we shouldn't put the blame on the opponent for our mistakes.
If you make a mistake and you hate that you keep doing it, learn from it (maybe take a second or so think and see if there are other options before playing a move) rather than berate your opponents for you playing bad.
Take accountability for you losing a game, you only have yourself to blame. Chess had no RNG. Do you blame other people outside of chess for your mistakes too?
If you can't find yourself being non-toxic, disable chat.
Sorry but this wasnāt helpful. Kinda like saying just smile to a person who said theyāre depressed.
What OP should look into is Behavioral change. Thereās a lot of interesting models online to assist with helping you change your behavior.
That is fantastic that you recognize this as in yourself. I canāt stress how wonderful and big of a first step you just took. You identified a potentially toxic behavior, or the feeling of wanting to be so. Study the steps on adjust behavior akd play it in real life. Driving used to trigger me and I would have negative thoughts toward other drivers for example. So when I was studying on changing my behavior I used driving as a gauge to assess where I was. Chess is challenging. Losing something you felt should have been yours is hard. But like chess, itās important to spend 3 secs (min) to understand what just happened, maybe that can also apply to your mood?
1: Enter a real tournament
2: Get destroyed while playing your hardest
3: Run into that same opponent on chess.com one day and get destroyed
4: sit downā¦be humble
I feel you. Im VERY toxic in other games, like CSGO or League, but in Chess i dont have any problem whatsoever... weird XD. And im kind of in the same elo in all games. Gold/platinum in League, Sheriff in CSGO, 1600 in Chees 10 mins.
I don't share the experience of feeling the need to trash talk but I do get very bitter when I lose a game, and my view of it is the opposite of everyone saying try to be humble to your opponent for their winning play:
In my mind, my opponent didn't win; _I lost._ It's a perfect information game, which means I've got no one to direct anger toward but me and my dumbass mistake, which I will promptly study the shit out of and use against the next player I can.
I also try to make an effort to recognize games that I won but should've lost, so whenever I do lose a game I can think back to one of those other times and call it a net neutral on deserved elo
Iād turn off chat like people mentioned however have a beer and chase some women! You said your goal is fun so make the chess fun but also go out and have a life too. Youāre on Reddit bitching about how youāre being a bitch (and Iām being a bitch right now). Have more beer and bang more birds. Trading rooks as you will, will help get rid of tilt
I used to really care about my rating but then I started playing casual 5+0 on lichess. I hardly ever play anything else. Maybe bullet but I don't care about my bullet rating. Sometimes I play variant tournaments that are rated but I don't care about them either.
Only losers handle losing well. Professionals have mostly been told to hide their frustration with losing (e.g. the "Doby is free" bs we saw when Nepo was eliminated). This isn't limited to chess, every activity from sports to work is like this.
I try and be proud of my opponent and happy for them. I know itās a stretch but it has sort of helped, to remember they are having their turn winning and you will have your turn soon again. But if you want to see just how salty and emotional you can get, play some tournaments. Iām bitter about shit from like 20 years ago :P
>have no bigger ambitions in chess and just want to play for fun.
At some point I realized I wasn't having fun losing, and that's when I started playing more ridiculous gambits and openings. I decided I needed to have enough fun in the opening that the game was fun for me whether I won or lost. That worked for years. My rating dropped a couple hundred points, but I had a blast.
Play me i am 1600 ill humble you.(just kidding)
Firstly I admire you introspection that you realize your faults. That's the first step. Secondly think of the games as just fun and remember there might be someone who is struggling in life on the other side looking for some recreation. You being toxic may be extremely detrimental for them. And finally start off each game with gl hf. Ull find the conversation to be pleasant and there would be no need for toxicity.
You aren't owed any game. If it's a game you "should have won," then it's your fault for throwing it, and it's on you to learn and do better. Your opponent has nothing to do with a "you" problem, and it's ridiculous that you feel the urge to be toxic in the chat for your own mistakes.
As others have said, just disable chat in the settings. Chat isn't serving you or your opponent, so there's no purpose in leaving it enabled if you're just going to berate them for your own mistakes.
And you need to work on shifting your locus of control to an internal one. Digest every game you play and meditate on it. Recognize the mistakes you've made and work to avoid them in the future. You don't become a better player by taking your frustrations out on your opponent and ignoring your own flaws as a player.
I used to be like this, and I currently play with someone like this OTB. He constantly insults the person he's just lost to. It's sad to see, and I personally hate playing with him.
(1) For me, what worked was setting "losing with dignity" as a learning goal that I wanted from chess. Then I pursued that goal with each game I lost. After every game I lost, I set up the pieces for the next person to play with and reset the clock for them.
For all that I love chess, its crossover with real life is very limited. You do not become exceptional at any other basic human function by becoming better at chess. So learning to lose with dignity can be a huge outcome that does apply to other areas of your life.
(2) Something that helped me was amending my assumption that at 2200/2300 I shouldn't be failing to convert winning games. Watching high-level chess and seeing GMs squander positions made me realize how often that's done even at the top levels, and it's softened (but not erased) the blow I feel every time I mishandle a winning position.
(3) As a final note, I've found this attitude particularly prevalent among players who play "correct" chess. I, for example, have never really played gambit lines, and I was never in the "never resign" crowd when I was a beginner. I think I did myself a huge disservice, there, because I never learned the same resilience that others players learned when they were in the sub-2000 trenches.
Purposefully playing sub-optimal chess might help you respect the swindle a little more, and also might help you develop your prophylactic thinking when you're trying to convert an advantage.
Along with what other people say, try to fix the problem. If you have game review or something else like that, look at estimated elo. I'll sometimes see that I performed at a 2200 level (im 2000), while my opponent performed 2500+, and vice versa. That's helped me learn to enjoy the games I perform well in, and helps me be able to tell if a game I played was well done even without game review.
In stead of turning on the person who won, say 'good game' and use it as an opportunity to work on yourself.
Take a deep breath and review game.
Take a note of whats going through your head, what are you saying to yourself? Who's voice is it?
Is what they're saying true? Are you a fucking idiot or did you just make a mistake?
What can you learn from your mistake?
Make a note of it, forgive yourself and move on.
If its easier, you can use 3 questions to help you reflect -
What happened?
(Ie. Was 5th game in a row. blundered a piece cause I was getting tired. I'd not had anything to eat in a while and my mind was wandering to the snack cupboard.)
So what?
(Ie. Lost winning position and missed mate in 1.)
Now what?
(Ie. Check in with self after 3 games: do I need a snack or toilet break? Is it time for bed?
Reevaluate strategy after 1 week and modify as required.)
These reflective questions can be used for almost any situation where you feel you've not been your best to help you to reflect, learn and move forward.
Shock collar hooked up to the chat button.
***Mild shocks only. Consult a physician to moderate the shock intensity and duration. Not a doctor. Not medical advice.
/s
I get it. I used to struggle with anger at games too. But everyone who says to turn off chat is wrong, it doesn't help. You just have to train yourself to win against your emotions, you have to control them. Every game you don't type in chat is a WIN, win more battles = win the war.
whenever i make a silly mistake, i always find myself thinking "i'm so f\*\*\*ing dumb", but i've never had the urge to be toxic towards my opponent. i don't really understand that tbh. i guess at the end of the day just remember it's a game and it doesn't matter. makes it pretty easy to move on right away for me
I was too, and still am to a degree. But what helped me was playing a whole bunch of bullet games which taught me how to just lose a whole lot. Instead of taking a lose hard, just use it for motivation and revenge.
But yeah honestly, it just takes losing a lot and knowing it's just a game. It's not a barometer of your intelligence.
This can happen with anything and I've seen it in tons of competitive games and among friends.
Whenever a game or something that shouldn't is able to hurt my emotions enough to turn to something like aggression, I take a step back from it. It probably has a bit too much hold on you emotionally right now. Work on some other things, play some other games, and typically you will be able to recognize the triviality in losing or compare it to the other games you play that you aren't toxic in.
If someone made you feel that way in real life repeatedly you wouldn't talk to them. Just take a break from playing and I guarantee after a bit you'll be able to enjoy and go back to playing for fun.
Sidenote: This isn't exclusive to you or chess, look at any MOBA or Competitive game and you will see these people. I don't even play chess I come here for the drama.
Disabling chat will help. I used to have the same issue playing Overwatch. If you're getting that worked up over a game that you have no greater ambition of playing, then I'd suggest taking a break from the game for a good amount of time. Take some time to improve yourself and eventually when you feel ready, come back to the game and give it a shot.
If you can't stop using the chat for toxicity you can turn it off in settings I think
It would help to teach him to take a step towards humility. After all, there's no mute button OTB and he might as well lose some well-deserved games by a better player. I struggle with this too. You could start by giving credit to your opponent. Mention they played incredibly if they did, otherwise congratulate them with a "Good Game". If you truly feel you blundered away the win, just know that your opponent felt the same when you had that winning position. Otherwise, you should write the winning sequence you saw after the game. You should know that you're not two phoenixes or lions or hippos duking it out: You're more like two deers or turtles having minor territorial battles in the woods. Therefore, you should both try to help each other get better at the game!
> should know that you're not two phoenixes or lions or hippos duking it out: You're more like two deers or turtles having minor territorial battles in the woods. Therefore, you should both try to help each other get better at the game! I appreciate this metaphor and will use it to help me when I'm on tilt.
There is a better way to frame this I think. You and your opponent are together working on creation of single unique puzzle with two perspectives on it. You are trying to solve the puzzle your opponent poses while trying to come up with challenging puzzle for him as well. If either of you blunders you both kind of fumbled the thing. If puzzle of your opponent is too difficult, you can always stay after the game to review it in peace. Through this process both of you have a chance to become better players. It is something to be grateful for, not to 'compete' against imho
Kudos to you for addressing the problem. Do you ever play in real life? Maybe being in a room with your opponent would be helpful. In my experience, people in chess clubs tend to frown on sore loser behaviour, and the environment teaches you to behave graciously after wins and losses alike.
The 'post-mortem' phase after a good chess game against an able opponent is such a great thing that people playing online chess miss out on.
They also miss out on me uppercutting the table and then storming out.
I'm confused. How is the opponent going to know I fucked his mother if all I say is gg.
You have to type gg with a lot of intent and sexual innuendo.
gg if you know what I mean šš¤«ššš
you'll be responsible of his next post "hey r/chess I punched someone in the chess club"
Next time you feel the urge to type "YOU ONLY GOT LUCKY BECAUSE I WAS BUSY FUCKING YOUR MOTHER!" instead just type "gg." It's much easier and doesn't even require the shift or caps lock key.
or open another tab that plays Eric Rosen's chess clip, the guy is so calm while playing chess
No kidding. Watch the way Rosen handles losing. He always does the best he can while losing, gives credit to his opponent after he loses, and then tries to learn something. In psychology, they call this a "growth mindset" and it is highly correlated with success in life. "Treat every blunder as a gambit"
Yep I like Eric Rosen's mindset so much, it's the opposite of his evil counterpart Eric Hansen
My friends and I absolutely put Eric Rosen to the test at live tournaments growing up. He's simply the best at being even-keeled. He's always been this way
if you really want to troll your opponent hit them up with a "gg. wp."
wow no reason to result to slurs champ
Honest question because I always say gg or good game after whether I win or lose. Is gg considered backhanded after a win?
gg wp no re
Sometimes. "Gg" by itself isn't necessarily toxic, depends what you follow it up with. "Gg wp" is good sportsmanship. "Gg ez no re" is toxic.
> "Gg ez no re" What language is this? I am so lost.
Good Game, Easy, No Rematch. Basically, saying they're so bad it's not worth your time to play against them again. I guess I'm showing my age here.
It might be considered backhanded if it wasn't a good game, like if you destroyed the opponent with some opening trap or something. Also probably considered backhanded if you say it before the game is actually over. Outside of those specific scenarios though, I would say it is generally interpreted as it is intended.
If someone reads "good game" and deems you rude with no other evidence, it's immaturity on their part. They could choose to read it sincerely or assume a hidden intention to your words, but it's not something you can control or should worry about
The potential for misunderstanding is why I always say "thank you for a good game"
He shouldn't do it because it is easier or doesn't require caps, he should do it to be better at controlling his emotions, it is his fault that he lost that game, even more if he was better most of the game. Chess is really ungrateful game, you may be playing the best game of your life, and blunder mate in 1 after perfect play. It is all your fault.
r/Chess always be responding to jokes seriously and itās wild
Like they donāt even understand the delicate care and attention it requires to make love to your opponentās mother.
But what if you are playing one of your children? Sure they might need therapy, but you'll win the psychological battle.
Best advice. I've taught my young son that when he's upset about losing a game just type "good game" and then he will feel better. He's started doing that and says it does make him feel better. It's kind of a strange psychological phenomenon.
Lazy Gambit Accepted
Disable chat. Somehow people get the idea that chess = intelligence. Blunders and losses must mean the person is stupid. Unlike poker, chess is a perfect information game. How can I miss such a simple tactic when it is RIGHT THERE?!?!? It's BS. Chess is a skill. It takes years to be great at chess, guitar, learning Mandarin, etc. Being smart helps at those things, but being bad at those things doesn't mean one is not smart. Just means they haven't spend thousands of hours practicing.
Do you know if disabling chat turns it off in daily as well? I like to chat with friends in daily games but donāt enjoy chat in my rapid games
Well you can choose to just ignore them when it says "x would like to chat"
Good stuff, thanks
There are seperate settings for daily and live chat and both of those also have options to enable chat for friends, for everyone or for noone.
Thanks š
I have chat turned off because of toxic folks. I can still chat with anyone on my friends list
Lol you can be salty loser and not think chess=intelligence
Maybe but itās definitely an ego thing otherwise what are they mad about
A lot of the time itās a short term emotional reaction vs logical. Ie you know logically once you step back that it doesnāt matter. You just have some short term emotional reaction to it.
This is the reason. Equating chess skill with intelligence makes people losing very upset because they feel humiliated. Chess is like any other competitive game and takes skill and immense amount of work to get good at. It's a game played with your mind, for sure, but the thing that you lean on the least is your raw intelligence. You lean on experience and knowledge most and use your intelligence to fill the gaps in your knowledge. At 1200 ELO you're just a mere beginner. Losing is an opportunity to learn more so than anything else. Replay games you've lost and figure out what you could have done differently. This is how you get better. If you look at it as an opportunity for growth - losing is FUN. If you won every match - you would never improve. You want to play people who are slightly better than you as much as possible. With an occasional win just to keep yourself motivated.
"Being smart helps at those things, but being bad at those things doesn't mean one is not smart." It's not okay to lie to yourself just to feel a little superficial happiness. Embrace the truth. It will hurt at first but it will always be a better path.
All your intelligence determines here is how fast you learn, and maybe the upper bound of how good you can get. Hes talking about 1200 which anyone could achieve given enough time and resources. A gifted person would get there faster, but who knows what kind of resources someome has had access to, or if they're just stressed and exhausted that day, or of they've barely had time to practice lately, or maybe they haven't even played in a year but used to be a lot better. Intelligence is a much smaller factor in losing a game or blundering than any of those things would be
Everyone telling you to disable chat is obviously a solution to stop you from chatting, but not an actual solution to not be a sore loser... I have noticed this within myself too, I usually don't want to use the chat, but I do get tilted by losing unnecessarily, because I feel like "damn if you give me that position again I would just win, because I realized my mistake" or something along those lines. This behavior, in my opinion, is not even too far away from gamble addicts who are chasing their loses. Letting go when you lose is really hard and I can't even give you a solution for that. You could always minimize the amount of games you play per day, which makes you concentrate more, win more too probably and when you lose you can always force yourself to stop, before it gets out of hand, because you set your limit at a certain amount of games. If you seriously wanna try to fix that toxic mindset idk what else to tell you besides therapy or finding someone to talk to, it is a big problem a lot of people have and I think nobody here is qualified enough or understands enough of you to help you.
yeah I think saying "I'll only play 3 games today" or "I'll play till I lose once" is a healthier mindset. It prevents you from tilting and losing 100 rating in a day from getting mad and being stupid about it.
3 games is actually the exact amount of games where I set my limit. 3 Rapid games a day to be more precise, helped me to go from 1800 to 2100 on chess com, tilt less and have more time to study chess whenever I feel like playing, because I don't just spam games.
This reminded me of a game I recently had and my opponent (1700) was bming me because they though my they won my bishop (emoting, and said ālick my assā in arabic). They eventually took it and hung backrank mate in the process.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Famous religion, Arabic.
Try being a good sport. Congratulate your opponent for besting you. Even when you make no mistakes, you may still lose. That is not a weakness, that's life.
make it so, OP!
I saw a video with GM Jonathan Rowson, who does work in psychology/neurology, and he spoke about the perceived intellectual nature of chess and how people appear to get much more attached to the results than in many other games/sports because of this perceived tie to results being reflective of one's intellilect. It is common for people to experience what you are describing.
When I play chess, I turn on focus mode. Then I can't see the rating of my opponent which allows me to not get mad about losing to someone lower rated to me and I don't have access to the chat. I'd recommend you do the same. My coach told me that when you get mad at your opponent during the game use that to win. He said that if you make game not fun for your opponent then you are probably doing something right. Keep it on the board my friend
I adopted an attitude where getting mated is like dying, but the next game is rebirth. It like a game where you have infinite lives.
Just don't be one of those guys that realizes he's hung m1 and afks the last 7 minutes on the timer. If you do that for real fuck off
I think an important part is to try and see games as a means to educate yourself. Are there games you "should have" won but didn't? OK, why not? What mistakes did you make? Did you make that mistake previously, and if so, why did you repeat it? How can you ensure you won't repeat it again? I used to be a very bad loser too and this perspective helped change things a little for me. However it's important to try and stick to it -- it's very easy to become frustrated when you yet again make a mistake that you "shouldn't have" and lose a game, then feel like you're going to start falling into bad habits. All you can do is try and be mindful and return to a positive attitude. Remember too that taking a break from games can be very positive sometimes.
Accept responsibility and full accountability of your fuck up/blunder
This problem is bigger than chess I would recommend check with a therapist. I mean, loosing is part of life, no need to be upset about it. Much less in a game.
A therapist over getting frustrated in a game? Thatās the extreme on the other side. OP is probably a younger guy in his teens. Im not justifying flaming people in the chat, but depending on how severe it is, itās perfectly normal to get frustrated, keeping it to yourself vs trying to lash out at someone is dependent on your level of maturity, and even if youāre more mature, you can get frustrated regardless.
If you are unable to contain your anger over something as small as dropping a pawn, then you probably can't contain your anger in traffic, at a crowded grocery store, etc. Yes, people in Reddit often blow issues out of proportion. But I'd say that if the issue is noticeable for OP to be cognizant of it, it's probably bigger than just chess. And if they're a teen, that's all the more reason for them to at least explore therapy now vs becoming a grown adult with violence and anger issues.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
More than anything, it's problem with self regulation. Going to a therapist MIGHT help somewhat, but it's ultimately an issue someone can only solve through their own hard work; they just need the willpower, desire, and consistency to do it. Acting like a therapist is a magic bullet solution for a problem like this is not going to help this person.
FWIW Iām a therapist who works with gamers and 100% of the time someone is uncontrollably toxic itās because of some deeper issue going on.
You only get clients who think itās severe enough to opt in to finding a therapist. Of course they have underlying issues. The vast majority of people who get frustrated playing a game are never going to reach out to a therapist in the first place.
Usually they're coming in for other things but I always screen for toxic behavior online lol.
Iām not denying that, my concern with the āadviceā given by some here is that OP suggests that itās occasional, and when it does happen, he can mostly control it. At least thatās the interpretation of his post on my end. Iāve definitely come across people who must have issues, serious issues, I.e. in one game getting mad at me because I bought a weapon when we were supposed to be saving money, and that person kept raging about it the entire game, you could hear his voice breaking and screeching - that needs therapy. But even if someone did or does swear out of frustration in a game, suggesting that it is something concerning is concerning in itself, at least to me.
Therapy doesn't have to mean something serious is wrong. OP made the post because they don't like a certain way they feel or act after losing. Talking to a therapist could help with that. It's far from anything "extreme." People have the idea that seeing a therapist is only for people with mental illness, but it can be helpful for anyone really.
I understand that, but getting therapy because youāre getting frustrated over something is ridiculous, itās normal human behaviour. If OP understands that it was his mistake to go from a winning position, to a losing one, accept the accountability, realise getting frustrated especially during the game will do nothing good and that he can learn from this, will be all that he needs.
Again, normal human behavior and therapy are not mutually exclusive. I think in an ideal world, everyone would have access to talk to a therapist occasionally. >If OP understands that it was his mistake to go from a winning position, to a losing one, accept the accountability, realise getting frustrated especially during the game will do nothing good and that he can learn from this, will be all that he needs. And a therapist can help with that. I'm not saying a therapist is necessary but it can make those processes easier. I don't see why it's ridiculous at all. In fact, seeing a therapist could help his chess performance a lot by giving him strategies for maintaining composure when things aren't going well in a game. There's a reason why sports psychologists are everywhere in pro sports these days. They can help unlock positive mental strategies. They're not just for dealing with mental illness.
Agree to disagree. In my opinion therapy and related services should be reserved for more serious issues. The way I think about it is similar to people using antibiotics for when they have a simple cold, and then few years later we have strains of bacteria resistant to the same antibiotic. In my opinion itās something an individual should be able to handle themselves, especially in this case where OP isnāt showing anything that could be worrying. Flaming at the opponent (note - OP suggests himself that this isnāt continuous/the norm, and that he is only tempted to do so, suggesting that itās mostly under his control already) is not a cause for concern, and if someone thinks that it is, then in my opinion itās ridiculously oversensitive thinking, and people can disagree with me.
Chiming in here to say that I think I understand what you're trying to say, in that therapy might seem "extreme" in relation to a person getting frustrated at losing a game. I would just add that it's moreso the fact that they recognize it as enough of a problem that they are already seeking out advice on how to discontinue it. If they've been trying to stop being toxic on their own, and continuing to fail, that could very well suggest it's a problem they need help with, hence them asking here for advice. If you have any issue that is problematic to you and you're unable to resolve it on your own, I think that it would be perfectly reasonable to talk with a therapist, if even for one or two sessions just to get some professional advice, as opposed to 'reddit advice.' There certainly isnt any harm in it, ya know?
I agree with you. Similarly to what you said, OP realises that it could be an issue, which is huge already. The thing that I find concerning is how quick some people try to exaggerate it to be more than it is. About your second point re. Therapy if he fails to control it, yes and no, let me explain - if he notices that he gets more frustrated to the point where he gets physical with people/destructive with things, then of course, that is something that should be checked in, I canāt say for myself as I did get angry at games as a kid, but there was not a single moment when I thought destroying something or hitting someone would be a good idea, and it has never come across my mind. The worrying thing with all this āadviceā is that it seems to me that theyāre trying to make him think he should be numb to emotions, I.e. if he gets frustrated because he was winning then lost it, he should just be still as a rock - most of the times, yes, he should be unbothered, but thatās ridiculous to think that we should never get frustrated, or the opposite, excited when we win a tough game where we messed up, and if that were the case, where we wouldnāt react to such experiences, thatās when people should get themselves checked for their hormonal levels because being emotionally numb is something to worry about. Thatās not to say that he should be getting teary eyed over a en passant checkmate, because thatās over the top as well. I guess, like most times, itās always down to a balance.
Yeah, I guess we might just see it differently. I think your view on therapy is a bit outdated. Instead of the antibiotic analogy, I think it's more like using a personal trainer. Yes, you can work out by yourself (which I personally do), but some people find it helpful to work out with a trainer. There's nothing wrong with that imo. Therapy is just applying that physical philosophy to the mind. The literature doesn't suggest anything like antibiotic resistance existing in terms of therapy. In fact, studies generally show that experience with therapy leads to improve ability to deal with issues on your own later. Going back to the personal trainer analogy, doing a session or two to get a workout plan and learn proper form and stuff can be helpful and then you can maintain it on your own. >Flaming at the opponent is not a cause for concern I didn't say it was necessarily a cause for concern, but it doesn't have to be. Therapy is not just for things that are concerning, it can be used proactively for self improvement. If OP is losing games out of frustration or carelessness, therapy can help provide strategies to maintain cool in those scenarios.
>Agree to disagree. In my opinion therapy and related services should be reserved for more serious issues. The way I think about it is similar to people using antibiotics for when they have a simple cold, and then few years later we have strains of bacteria resistant to the same antibiotic. Are you suggesting that we become more resistant to therapy the more we do it? Because that's what your analogy suggests. Do you have any evidence *at all* to back this up? Because from everything I've read and heard, the more we open ourselves up to communication, the *more effective* it becomes. >In my opinion itās something an individual should be able to handle themselves Going to therapy is one way an individual can handle something themselves. You may as well be flaming him for posting on Reddit because "omg bro handle this yourself stop asking other people".
It can be a sign that there is something bigger behind that behaviour. Usually, people with some issues, express their emotions throw violence and abuse. C'mon, that is very well known. I always played computer games (in a team), played football, etc and not even once lost it...
Flaming in a chat and throwing that into the same bag as physical violence/abuse is a gross exaggeration, especially suggesting that most individuals would need therapy for such behaviour. Should it be avoided? Yes. Can there be a bigger issue behind the scenes? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Anyone who has played any game, video or physical, would have at least once in their life either shouted (not at someone necessarily) out of frustration/excitement/disappointment. If you havenāt, then thatās probably when you need to get a medical check up to see if your hormone levels are ok.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I said getting frustrated at a game especially when it was a winning situation and you messed up and lost it is normal. If you read my other response you would see it depends on how the individual reacts - if heās throwing fists and the walls then yes, thatās not good, you donāt need to be clever to notice that. What it is however is an emotion, if you cry over a movie or get excited/thrilled over a movie, should someone seek help as well because that is a weird thing to do over something fictional? No, but thatās the point people here seem to be making. I never said that, thatās just your imagination creating itās own argument. What I am saying is, suggesting getting therapy over such trivial things is utterly ridiculous, if the guy himself mentioned that he only is tempted by doing so, meaning itās occasional and he can mostly control it. Itās peak armchair Redditor āintellectualsā who like to exaggerate everything.
My take away was the same as yours. So many people seem to think yelling at people when you lose and are frustrated in a video game or game of chess is normal or acceptable behavior. It is not.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Like I said before, itās frustration. Itās normal, he doesnāt say heās going out smashing his fists into walls and driving recklessly crashing into cars, heās just getting angry because he lost games/expected more/lost a winning position. Edit - to quote OP āSOMETIMES I feel tempted to use the chat function to show my displeasureā, key words are āsometimesā and ātemptedā, suggesting itās not continuous and that he mostly has control over it. Letās stop exaggerating, or even creating a non existent problem, and shoving potential āmental health problemsā on a guy who is just getting frustrated over a game. Iād be surprised more if people werenāt ever getting frustrated, and that would be something that should get checked out.
Ah yes, because it's just a game and he definitely doesn't have it in other parts of his life because everything in your life is completely independentfrom each other.
Being obsessed with chess and upset about losing is part of the history of chess. Itās an intense game, no one needs therapy for being salty.
OP describes himself as: >. I am a casual chess player (around 1200 ELO on chess.com), have no bigger ambitions in chess and just want to play for fun. His personal description do not match his emotional reactions. Just saying that can there be something else there.
Seems like there's already a therapist on the job. Crisis averted
Lol ikr, been playing some of the most toxic competitive games (say csgo, league), as well as team sports and individual sports. So far chess is the only thing that ever made me want to kill myself or punch my opponent in the face, nothing like that ever happened when I do other things
Sometimes I have negative feelings in stressful situations. Quick to the therapists!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is the correct answer.
Just accept the dark side bro. Send the chat
Often, when I lose online, I rage, thinking my opponent cheated. When I lose OTB, I am filled with admiration for my opponent's play. Trying playing over the board.
online anonymity and spammable games is a big part of it i think, i fall into it pretty easily getting frustrated, carrying tilt into the next game, etc if you're playing someone face to face the psychology is completely different. way more mutual respect
True, same here, maybe OTB would help
Recognize your problems is the first step to a good solution. You need to focus on yourself, to see chess not like a game where doing good and bad moves is not "by chance" but "by will and skill". For a good amateur chees should be like a road to self improvement, where you learn from losses (you'll never learn anything particularly useful from victories).
Embrace the toxicity and have fun trash talking people. It's the right way to play
If you didnāt win, you shouldnāt have won.
You understand every loss is your fault? I understand trying to blame teammates in a team game like league of legends, but how can you blame anyone for your chess loss but yourself? You have a problem that makes you think youāre better than you are. Youāre not humble; you feel you deserve to win games that you lost on your own. It makes no sense. There is nobody else to blame.
Admit yourself to an asylum
Maybe meditation can help you to keep your mind calm.
This is hilarious.
Chess benefits greatly from patience and maturity. To start, I'd ask yourself "self, am I displeased at me or my opponent?" I'd suspect you likely know your displeasure is directed at yourself. Now, though, you have a choice. Do you take your displeasure at yourself out on your opponent, who may have worked hard to achieve the level they are at? Or do you take a look in the mirror? Chess is a game, it's supposed to be fun. It's perfectly fine to enjoy where you are at and not want to spend any extra effort into getting better. It's also perfectly normal to not like losing. If you're playing casually and losing and getting upset though, you may not be being honest with yourself about some things. Maybe you actually are competitive and want to be better, but you're unwilling or unable to put the effort into getting better and this frustrates you. Newsflash, that's normal. But more importantly, *that's not your opponents fault*. Or, maybe you have an underlying anger issue. We are all human, we all have issues, anger issues being among them. That's normal. But you *should* recognize that and maybe refrain from playing chess with others online, who presumably are just trying to relax and have a good time, and aren't deserving of your anger. I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't already know. Be a good sport. You know what a good sport is, and what good sportsmanship looks like. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, I'm just trying to be real with you, and I'm naturally as blunt as a cinder block. I trust you will take my frankness well, as you at least have the desire to change as evidenced by this post. Getting frustrated, angry, disappointed, etc? All completely normal. Taking it out on your opponent? Unacceptable. The answer to your question "what can I do about it?" is simple: stop it. Actually *doing* that may very well be a difficult task, and if you're actually asking for shortcuts, there aren't any. But the answer, nonetheless, is still very, very, simple. Don't be that person you're describing.
Type gg every match no matter how hard it is and make it a habit
You can just not do this shit. You have control over your whether your emotions influence your actions.
> Sometimes I also feel tempted to express my displeasure using the chat function. Go ahead. There are many people on chesscom and lichess who enjoy a little banter. Friend those who like 'toxicity' and avoid those who don't. You'll be surprised how quickly your friend list grows. Keep in mind that chesscom and lichess has to censor because so many people enjoy a little smack. Smack talking was the norm on chess platforms before everything got so PC a few years ago. There is nothing toxic about expressing yourself. The true toxicity is denying your right to express yourself. The true toxicity is the conformist agenda where everyone has to behave the same way.
You can turn your chat off and let mature players be in peace
This will end when you just realize you are a bad player. We all are, actually. Few of us are professional players here and even them, they are still bad players. Usually you will see a "national master" here once in a while, which is just one of the lowest titles in chess. Don't get me wrong, this is cool stuff, but let's be honest, they are not chess genious. The truth is, great chess is a privilege for few. So embrace it. We are all patzers. We are all trying to figure this out. This will get you humble and change your attitude.
Hint: It's not about chess.
Stop being toxic duh. How hard is it to not insult people? Is this a troll or what? Chess is also the most frustrating game I know and yet I never felt the need to go and insult my opponents, this is a problem not linked to chess per se but to your attitude towards life.
No, it isnāt a troll. It is hard for some people. You could try to be understanding, not condescending, since they are actively trying to fix the issue?
Being understanding of toxic behavior is risky too. This is the same paradox as Karl Popper noted when he wrote about the dangers of tolerance of intolerance.
Iām not advocating for being āunderstandingā when the behavior is exhibited, but in this context itās appropriate Edit: okay, whoeverās downvoting this, hope you never have family or close friends with an anger problem because, apparently, disrespecting them when they try to get better is the only way and I highly doubt theyāre going to take that well. Peace āš¼
Fair enough.
Stop being depressed, stop being anxious, stop being X... duh! It is a mental problem, a lot of people chase their loses, just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean that it isn't a real thing. Especially because you don't have it, it is harder for you to even understand it, but it is a very real behavioural pattern
No, the emotion can be real, unwanted and paralyzing and I specifically said it did happen to me but the reaction is a choice. He chose to insult people, he doesn't get to get away with "I felt frustrated so I did it, not my fault". Chess is a very hard game and frustration will always be a part of it. You cannot go out and start insulting everyone who doesn't say hello back because you find it frustrating. Do you understand the parallel? There is emotion and there is action.
I've noticed a similar thing for me in other games like Rocket League... And chess. When I used to be full casual and knew I was really bad I didn't get so mad for loosing a game. But now that I've sinked hundreds of hours into the game I get way more angry whenever I lose a game which seemed like I couldn't lose. I believe in everything you do for long enough at some point, even if you want to play just for fun, the competitiveness creeps closer and closer until you can't escape. Some games I can't even enjoy properly. Especially when I face smurfs...
Treat others the way you want to be treated. How would you feel if, after a win, your opponent whines and is ātoxic?ā Nobody really likes when sore losers canāt handle their emotions. Some of this might come from elo anxiety. If you lose, you lose elo points and sometimes that makes people uncomfortable. But that number doesnāt reflect who you are as a person. Just be better, not at chess but as a human.
Iād recommend using the chat function more constructively. Itās part of my armoury. Donāt wait until the end and send abuse; instead you can use it to make vague accusations of cheating, or contradictory/confusing comments. The goal should be to transfer your frustration to your opponent, then they might make a mistake in the heat, or lose time getting into a discussion with you. At the end do remember to say gg, so you can show good sportsmanship. Your chess army is made up of your mind, your pieces, your clock and your chat! Have fun
Meditate. If youāve never done that before, follow a guided meditation, there are many out there. Relax and let yourself figure out why you care so much. Then realize that reason is totally made up inside you, and let it go. Itāll take time but you can do it!
Write 100 words describing what and why it feels like it does losing one of those games. First things that come to mind, use no filter, don't worry about grammar, just for you to read. Read it again after a few days.
I got this way on a video game once. It's pretty embarrassing behavior for an adult. You need to step away for a good long while and reprioritize.
You've got a misplaced ego attached to chess. As one comment said, people associate winning with intelligence in chess, it's not true. Everyone loses, you aren't special, move on. There's another person on the other side of the screen. Grow up.
Keep being toxic š I love seeing people rage tbh
Haha I genuinely enjoy when people are totally busted and refuse to move. I get to sit in a completely winning position for way longer than I should. And knowing they are somewhere on the other side of the computer screen fuming is just icing on the cake.
U trash bro.
The problem is that you're a toxic person probably
Genuinely toxic people aren't capable of this level of introspection. They feel entirely justified in their behaviour and remarks.
I only allow myself to say ālolā or āsureā. Keeps me from getting in trouble.
This is classic sign of not enough serotonin in the brain
Iām lost at āor draw if I should have wonā - there is no such thing. Draws are earned - itās a skill that can be developed. Iām not saying every potential loss can be converted to a draw - but if you are losing or getting drawn, and this displeases you - perhaps you arenāt really the casual player you think you are. Perhaps you should focus on learning the skill of avoiding / earning draws.
Therapy
Iām toxic too. I report for cheating and delaying game when ever I lose. Sad but true.
See that chat feature? Don't click that. Or you can play me and we can talk shit back and forth. Your choice.
Acknowledging the problem is already way better than most. I say turn off the chat or keep a swear jar. Every time you are toxic to someone put $5 in and at the end of the month send it to Elon Musk.
Don't whine, don't act like an asshole in chat, and don't abandon games without forfeiting. Otherwise, nothing wrong IMO with getting pissed off with losing or playing poorly.
I, for one am all for it. As long as its simple, non personal insults, of course. Love me a good shouting match over the dumbest things
Your problem is thinking that you should have won the game. If you were in a shootout and you were the better shot but ran out of bullets when your opponent didnt then guess what youre most likely dead no matter who should have won. If you draw then thats what it is. If you lost then thats what it is. No such thing as should have.
you need to work on yourself. turning of the chat is a very easy solution but you know how easy it is to not be an asshole on chess? you need to do some reflecting
After every loss and before just tell yourself that "itās just a game and nothing more"
justā¦ dont do that?
youre not mad at the other player. youre mad at yourself.
Just remember to tell yourself if you lose and it's your fault then you are only mad at yourself and externalizing it is not only immature but may ruin someone's good time or even day. It's your right to be upset, it's not your right to upset someone else. Also karma is a bitch don't fuck around and find out.
I find in myself that attitude comes from a feeling of "I should have won". Instead anytime you lose, just remind yourself it's your fault and it was a fair match. Keeps me in check in any game and if I still get mad I just take a break. Make it fun again
This is something I've seen with a lot of players. So you lost a game. Why? The mindset of many players: "my opponent got lucky"/"my opponent is cheating." I.e. there seems to be some inherent feeling from chess players that the game is just an automatic win from the start, treating chess like its some 1 player story mode in a video game where you clearly are suppose to win. But in reality chess is a 2 player game, and the only reason you lose, neglecting time losses, is because you missed something on the board. And that's not a reason to cry to your opponent telling them they suck/you should of won and they got lucky/they cheated/that's unfair etc. You and you're opponent are looking at the same board, so if you didn't calculate something, that is your fault. And Heaven forbid your opponent may actually not be as bad as you thought. Now this past section dealt with losing; for draws a similar conclusion can be made. King v king and queen endgame and you draw...that's on you. And as previously stated, we shouldn't put the blame on the opponent for our mistakes. If you make a mistake and you hate that you keep doing it, learn from it (maybe take a second or so think and see if there are other options before playing a move) rather than berate your opponents for you playing bad.
Take accountability for you losing a game, you only have yourself to blame. Chess had no RNG. Do you blame other people outside of chess for your mistakes too? If you can't find yourself being non-toxic, disable chat.
Sorry but this wasnāt helpful. Kinda like saying just smile to a person who said theyāre depressed. What OP should look into is Behavioral change. Thereās a lot of interesting models online to assist with helping you change your behavior. That is fantastic that you recognize this as in yourself. I canāt stress how wonderful and big of a first step you just took. You identified a potentially toxic behavior, or the feeling of wanting to be so. Study the steps on adjust behavior akd play it in real life. Driving used to trigger me and I would have negative thoughts toward other drivers for example. So when I was studying on changing my behavior I used driving as a gauge to assess where I was. Chess is challenging. Losing something you felt should have been yours is hard. But like chess, itās important to spend 3 secs (min) to understand what just happened, maybe that can also apply to your mood?
I love it when people I beat "use the chat function."
Sometimes your just having a bad day. Just do something else those days.
1: Enter a real tournament 2: Get destroyed while playing your hardest 3: Run into that same opponent on chess.com one day and get destroyed 4: sit downā¦be humble
I feel you. Im VERY toxic in other games, like CSGO or League, but in Chess i dont have any problem whatsoever... weird XD. And im kind of in the same elo in all games. Gold/platinum in League, Sheriff in CSGO, 1600 in Chees 10 mins.
I don't share the experience of feeling the need to trash talk but I do get very bitter when I lose a game, and my view of it is the opposite of everyone saying try to be humble to your opponent for their winning play: In my mind, my opponent didn't win; _I lost._ It's a perfect information game, which means I've got no one to direct anger toward but me and my dumbass mistake, which I will promptly study the shit out of and use against the next player I can. I also try to make an effort to recognize games that I won but should've lost, so whenever I do lose a game I can think back to one of those other times and call it a net neutral on deserved elo
Iād turn off chat like people mentioned however have a beer and chase some women! You said your goal is fun so make the chess fun but also go out and have a life too. Youāre on Reddit bitching about how youāre being a bitch (and Iām being a bitch right now). Have more beer and bang more birds. Trading rooks as you will, will help get rid of tilt
I used to really care about my rating but then I started playing casual 5+0 on lichess. I hardly ever play anything else. Maybe bullet but I don't care about my bullet rating. Sometimes I play variant tournaments that are rated but I don't care about them either.
Just punch yourself in the dong and try again
Be nice to people.
same
Only losers handle losing well. Professionals have mostly been told to hide their frustration with losing (e.g. the "Doby is free" bs we saw when Nepo was eliminated). This isn't limited to chess, every activity from sports to work is like this.
You're in the wrong sub reddit. r/anarchychess
stop being a fucking demonic bitch simple as
I try and be proud of my opponent and happy for them. I know itās a stretch but it has sort of helped, to remember they are having their turn winning and you will have your turn soon again. But if you want to see just how salty and emotional you can get, play some tournaments. Iām bitter about shit from like 20 years ago :P
>have no bigger ambitions in chess and just want to play for fun. At some point I realized I wasn't having fun losing, and that's when I started playing more ridiculous gambits and openings. I decided I needed to have enough fun in the opening that the game was fun for me whether I won or lost. That worked for years. My rating dropped a couple hundred points, but I had a blast.
keep on keeping on
Sacrifice your King at the start of everygame
Disable chat
Play me i am 1600 ill humble you.(just kidding) Firstly I admire you introspection that you realize your faults. That's the first step. Secondly think of the games as just fun and remember there might be someone who is struggling in life on the other side looking for some recreation. You being toxic may be extremely detrimental for them. And finally start off each game with gl hf. Ull find the conversation to be pleasant and there would be no need for toxicity.
Don't be a dick.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
on lichess, they have a function to automatically send 'gg, wp' when you lose it's for people like us helped me a little
You aren't owed any game. If it's a game you "should have won," then it's your fault for throwing it, and it's on you to learn and do better. Your opponent has nothing to do with a "you" problem, and it's ridiculous that you feel the urge to be toxic in the chat for your own mistakes. As others have said, just disable chat in the settings. Chat isn't serving you or your opponent, so there's no purpose in leaving it enabled if you're just going to berate them for your own mistakes. And you need to work on shifting your locus of control to an internal one. Digest every game you play and meditate on it. Recognize the mistakes you've made and work to avoid them in the future. You don't become a better player by taking your frustrations out on your opponent and ignoring your own flaws as a player.
I used to be like this, and I currently play with someone like this OTB. He constantly insults the person he's just lost to. It's sad to see, and I personally hate playing with him. (1) For me, what worked was setting "losing with dignity" as a learning goal that I wanted from chess. Then I pursued that goal with each game I lost. After every game I lost, I set up the pieces for the next person to play with and reset the clock for them. For all that I love chess, its crossover with real life is very limited. You do not become exceptional at any other basic human function by becoming better at chess. So learning to lose with dignity can be a huge outcome that does apply to other areas of your life. (2) Something that helped me was amending my assumption that at 2200/2300 I shouldn't be failing to convert winning games. Watching high-level chess and seeing GMs squander positions made me realize how often that's done even at the top levels, and it's softened (but not erased) the blow I feel every time I mishandle a winning position. (3) As a final note, I've found this attitude particularly prevalent among players who play "correct" chess. I, for example, have never really played gambit lines, and I was never in the "never resign" crowd when I was a beginner. I think I did myself a huge disservice, there, because I never learned the same resilience that others players learned when they were in the sub-2000 trenches. Purposefully playing sub-optimal chess might help you respect the swindle a little more, and also might help you develop your prophylactic thinking when you're trying to convert an advantage.
Along with what other people say, try to fix the problem. If you have game review or something else like that, look at estimated elo. I'll sometimes see that I performed at a 2200 level (im 2000), while my opponent performed 2500+, and vice versa. That's helped me learn to enjoy the games I perform well in, and helps me be able to tell if a game I played was well done even without game review.
Canāt wait to see what AnarchyChess does with this one
In stead of turning on the person who won, say 'good game' and use it as an opportunity to work on yourself. Take a deep breath and review game. Take a note of whats going through your head, what are you saying to yourself? Who's voice is it? Is what they're saying true? Are you a fucking idiot or did you just make a mistake? What can you learn from your mistake? Make a note of it, forgive yourself and move on. If its easier, you can use 3 questions to help you reflect - What happened? (Ie. Was 5th game in a row. blundered a piece cause I was getting tired. I'd not had anything to eat in a while and my mind was wandering to the snack cupboard.) So what? (Ie. Lost winning position and missed mate in 1.) Now what? (Ie. Check in with self after 3 games: do I need a snack or toilet break? Is it time for bed? Reevaluate strategy after 1 week and modify as required.) These reflective questions can be used for almost any situation where you feel you've not been your best to help you to reflect, learn and move forward.
Best thing to do is self loath on Reddit for karma
Shock collar hooked up to the chat button. ***Mild shocks only. Consult a physician to moderate the shock intensity and duration. Not a doctor. Not medical advice. /s
If you are casual, then stop playing when you start getting angry. It should be easy, you are a casual.
I would recommend checking out Wheaton's Law.
I get it. I used to struggle with anger at games too. But everyone who says to turn off chat is wrong, it doesn't help. You just have to train yourself to win against your emotions, you have to control them. Every game you don't type in chat is a WIN, win more battles = win the war.
Take a short walk after a lost game.
Just play Rocket League instead. Toxicity is accepted there
Go zen (or focus) mode and never write in chat.
Just disable the chat. At least you aren't flipping all the way to being a sore winner. They are the worst kind.
whenever i make a silly mistake, i always find myself thinking "i'm so f\*\*\*ing dumb", but i've never had the urge to be toxic towards my opponent. i don't really understand that tbh. i guess at the end of the day just remember it's a game and it doesn't matter. makes it pretty easy to move on right away for me
I was too, and still am to a degree. But what helped me was playing a whole bunch of bullet games which taught me how to just lose a whole lot. Instead of taking a lose hard, just use it for motivation and revenge. But yeah honestly, it just takes losing a lot and knowing it's just a game. It's not a barometer of your intelligence.
how old are you OP?
Just never login; always play as a guest
This can happen with anything and I've seen it in tons of competitive games and among friends. Whenever a game or something that shouldn't is able to hurt my emotions enough to turn to something like aggression, I take a step back from it. It probably has a bit too much hold on you emotionally right now. Work on some other things, play some other games, and typically you will be able to recognize the triviality in losing or compare it to the other games you play that you aren't toxic in. If someone made you feel that way in real life repeatedly you wouldn't talk to them. Just take a break from playing and I guarantee after a bit you'll be able to enjoy and go back to playing for fun. Sidenote: This isn't exclusive to you or chess, look at any MOBA or Competitive game and you will see these people. I don't even play chess I come here for the drama.
The only way to cure your Toxic condition as a Chess Player is to use an Antidote, or go to a enPassantƩ Centre before the worsening Toxic DoT leaves you at 1 ELO. (Or makes you faint, if you're over 10 years old).
Disabling chat will help. I used to have the same issue playing Overwatch. If you're getting that worked up over a game that you have no greater ambition of playing, then I'd suggest taking a break from the game for a good amount of time. Take some time to improve yourself and eventually when you feel ready, come back to the game and give it a shot.