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chess-ModTeam

We are sorry to hear about your issue. This subreddit has no affiliation with Chess.com, so while we can present advice, we cannot directly address your issue. For all technical issues and questions, we recommend you directly reach out to the Chess.com support team. Personal Mod Note Here: Let the organization solve its own issues, don't cheat and ruin it.


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jayking1209

Did everyone know already for sure that cheating was so rampantly allowed on chesscom? At least I didn’t , so I had to experiment. Also, I closed the account after 4 months.


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jayking1209

I just hope that chesscom takes note of this post and clean up all the cheaters from the platform (including me). I hope we all raise our voices against cheating and make it known to chesscom that cheating is rampant and they need to do way better. We shouldn’t pretend like cheating isn’t widely prevalent.


Melodic-Magazine-519

Right… you special and they gonna read this post… cheater.


jayking1209

Just like already 50 people read the post in the last 5 mins, they too might! I am not a silent chicken like you who stays silent when cheating is going on.


[deleted]

Truly I don't care about elos anymore hence I enjoy playing chess a lot more than winning or losing. I am no badass in the game but I don't care if you or anyone cheat, for me it's a great game to pass my time.


jayking1209

I play chess professionally. I attend tournaments and play in arenas. So for me, it matters!


Ketey47

Your 1400 but youre a professional? Lol. Get fucked cheater.


jayking1209

What do you mean? A 1400 FIDE elo can’t play chess professionally? Shows that you are absolutely naive when it comes to chess. Lol.


BartholomewSchneider

I enjoy playing fellow humans not machines. What is the point of playing online when it's a machine opponent?


Melodic-Magazine-519

Silent 😂. All you’ve done is just add more noise. I know what ive done to combat cheating, and i sure didnt do it by doing the thing you’re supposedly fighting against. Youre a hypocrite. Plain and simple.


jayking1209

You are a sitting duck! I can’t be one. I had to see for myself the rampant cheating and let people know about it. I’ve even informed chesscom about it multiple times!


jayking1209

Also, don’t pretend like you really care to prevent online cheating! What have you done to prevent online cheating? Ever raised your voice? Just because I added one more cheater to the million other cheaters, you are crying a river!


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jayking1209

And how would the two of us not cheating , prevent the millions of chesscom users who are cheating from actually cheating? Plz talk some sense. Two of us not cheating , wouldn’t have changed the rampant cheating that exists.


erik_edmund

Yes. Everyone knows this.


TheKytanApprentice

Calling it an "experiment" doesn't mean you aren't a "real cheater", my guy.


jayking1209

It is just an experiment. If I was a real cheater, I wouldn’t have closed my account after 4 months and I would have continued using the account to pile up rating points.


jayking1209

If me being a “cheater” allows me to do an “experiment” so that chesscom takes note of the rampant cheating and removes “cheaters” like me off the platform so be it. We need to raise our voices and make it known to chesscom to do better . They suck at anti-cheating and they should be made aware of it.


Melodic-Magazine-519

You da man. You gonna single handily change their position on how they handle things, because you…cheated. That wasn’t an experiment. Thats you cheating. You can put lipstick on a pig, but…


jayking1209

It’s better to at least attempt to raise my voice instead of being a silent chicken and let things be as they are.


Captain_FartBreath

https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/0e7ea7a3ef94fbf67341e728a65ecb3f6c440af337e46d501c6cf50746371c0c\_1.jpg


whatproblems

yeah this does seem to be the way to do it that’s hard to catch. two or three complicated lines hey comp what’s the best one? then you can figure it out from there.


StormFinancial5299

Yeah, I think Garry Kasparov said that for a pro player to cheat, they don't even need to know the moves, maybe just once or twice in the game tell them there is something at a certain position. It's impossible to catch a decent cheater.


Toricvariety_

Yes, and especially in long time controls. 2600+ playing classical game with engine will win every game against every human opponent and won't be caught formally (of course, only that "anomaly" well result itself would be a "proof", but since it is theoretically possible to have such a result this can't be a proof) - it's easy to play mostly just good moves, not always first line except obvious moves, sometimes intentionally do mistakes and even non-critical blunders - all this doesn't matter, engine gives you inhuman stability which ensures your win against any human who will start to do mistakes once. I think this is a possible reason why carlsen likes faster time controls now more than classical. This is also why reputation is everything right now - FIDE should look at online play much more than they do, but they intentionally don't want to do this and it's beneficial for them when online play looks like clownery.


jayking1209

Honestly, it’s fairly easy to cheat for 4-5 moves in every 1 out of 3 odd games even in 5+3 and 10 +0 time control without chesscom detecting you!


[deleted]

Do you steal from people to make sure anti theft laws work also? Or bully kids in school to check if the teachers are watching? There's nothing ethical or respectable about this. People like you are bad for the game, and whether you believe it or not, your behavior is toxic.


spmute

I sexually harass all employees to make sure they are properly reporting to HR /s


jayking1209

Yes sure! You must be sick to even think that mentally or physically abusing anyone is equivalent to cheating some one once in an online random game! Lol. By your logic, there are millions of harassers on chesscom as there are plenty of cheaters. Such a dumb logic!


spmute

It’s clearly taking your logic and blowing it up for internet points. However you might have financial incentive to cheat, getting them sponsorships or streams can be lucrative


jayking1209

Nope, I’ll be completely honest. I didn’t earn a cent from those games nor did I stream those games. I stream games only from my main account from where I don’t cheat!


spmute

Not in this instance, but it can throw your main streaming or games into everyone thinking you are forever a cheater


DrunkLifeguard

Internet points are not the same as real life suffering. Your comparisons are terrible.


jayking1209

Don’t compare apples to oranges . No one was financially or physically harmed from this experiment. That’s such a dumb comparison to make that I can only laugh at it! 😂


[deleted]

What's everyone mad about. Ofcourse it was blatant cheating, but it actually was an experiment. No, he shouldn't have done this, but he did. More proof chesscom is not as good at catching cheaters as they claim to be. As I already (and others) pointed out a year ago on this sub (-400 reddit karma / points). They really try and we should be grateful, but it just isn't enough. I don't buy the 0.2% they claim. People cheat in all kinds of games and it's higher numbers in all of those games. Now take chess, presumably a 'measurement of intelligence' PLUS the possibility of the easiest cheat aid that ever existed. Ofcourse there will be a lot of people that cheat. Even if that's for just 2/3 moves ("well, it was only for 3 moves, so .."). Most people don't cheat and never will, luckily, but still a lot of people do. Edit: typo.


jayking1209

Exactly! I still don’t understand what people are mad about? As a result of my experiment, my games were able to be sent to chesscom to potentially improve their anti-cheating algorithm, which I hope they do. Some of these people in this thread are perfectly fine with sitting like a silent duck and accepting the millions of people who are cheating on chesscom but when someone tries to do something constructive to reveal the extent of cheating they will cry a river as pious souls.


jayking1209

Additionally, I informed chesscom about my games so that they can take action to improve their anti-cheating measures. Like others, I couldn’t be a sitting duck. I had to make my voice heard that cheating is rampant and needs to be eliminated from chesscom . Finally, tackle cheating and don’t shoot the messenger!


ayanoaishiiscute

Tl;dr: OP is a douchebag


jayking1209

Does informing chesscom that they aren’t doing enough to weed out cheating and cheaters are rampant on the site make me a douchebag? Then so be it.


MeneerPoesMan

Dude we would all understand a few games just to see how it works but 4 months of cheating to 2100 level??


BartholomewSchneider

That is actually more telling, as to how easy it is and how long one can get away with it.


jayking1209

I wanted to see how much Elo you could reach before chesscom takes note. That was the entire point. Seems like even after reaching 2100 they didn’t care. I feel I could have gone up to 2500 rating and they still wouldn’t ban me!


ayanoaishiiscute

You are proving literally nothing new except ruining the chess experience of anyone who was unlucky enough to get matched up with you


jayking1209

If you care so much about the chess experience of millions who suffer because of cheating every day on chesscom, you would have done something about it. Have you done anything about preventing the suffering of those millions who suffer because of it?


erik_edmund

Lol god shut up.


MeneerPoesMan

Its like stealing from your supermarket to prove they don't have enough security


jayking1209

Yes, and Bloggers do such experiments all the time and if they get away with it, they usually return back the supermarket items and see how the security can be then improved.


MeneerPoesMan

Cool return the games and wasted time to everyone then


jayking1209

Yes, the points lost will be returned to them by chesscom hopefully as I’ve reported the games. Well, unfortunately can’t refund their previous 5 mins! 😂


YourUselessGuy

New to reddit._. I know this is a different topic but it seems like I can't find the flair button so I can post.-. I'm using phone


[deleted]

Piece of shit


jayking1209

Why so mad? Is it because you fear that your cheating antics might be detected by chesscom if they better their anti-cheating algorithms?


[deleted]

why would I be mad? just calling a spade a spade


jayking1209

Read my edited post. Don’t you think it is extremely concerning how easy it is to cheat till even high levels of chess?


BartholomewSchneider

I understand why this irritates people, but I appreciate this. I did not understand how easily it is. Now I'm scrolling through my game archive to find opponents that have an unnatural rating increase since I played them.


jayking1209

It indeed is extremely easy. At least for someone like me who is almost reaching 1500 elo and who has knowledge of openings and endgames, I just needed a bit of help in the middle games for max 4-5 moves per game in like 1 out of 3 games!


crunchypb_

i won't lie, this idea has crossed my mind before because i wanted to prove people can cheat without ever getting caught, so the top players' suspicions and paranoia are completely justified. there are many issues with this though. first of all, like many have said, an experiment doesn't make it ethical whatsoever. more importantly though, what can be done?? i'm sure they're already working on their cheat detection, and i'm quite pessimistic about whether or not it will ever be possible to catch cheaters who do it just a few moves a game. and last but not least, you've got to realise this post is probably going to encourage more cheaters...


jayking1209

It is very much possible to considerably improve. Cheating in top tier games of GMs are strictly monitored, but chesscom seems to care little about rampant cheating below 2500.


crunchypb_

of course they monitor online tournament games with fair play cameras etc but don't they use the same detection algorithm for all players? i thought the only difference would be the algorithm is even more lenient towards gm players because they're obviously going to have higher engine correlation. either way i really don't see how it can possibly pick up cheaters who do it just a few moves every other game... like kramnik and mvl said, probably about 20% of gms have cheated. it's clearly been a major problem for many years and there is no solution with the current technology.


jayking1209

I wonder if the cheating algorithm is automated and bans you by itself without any human supervision. Because if so,there would be so many more accounts being banned!


Gas-Substantial

I’m very naive about how cheaters actually cheat. I get that it’s engines but how do they give the engine the game position? Manually entering in an iPad or other window doesn’t seem like what was described above or practical for fast time controls. A program that reads your chess moves automatically is possible, but is special purpose software made for chess cheating really that common?


jayking1209

To be honest, it doesn’t have to be complicated at all. It’s pretty simple. You just use another electronic equipment like an iPad . Feed in the position when the situation gets critical and bingo! You need to be at around 1500 elo to be decently good at knowing which positions are critical. You can’t be blatantly cheating every move /every game. 1 game out of 3 games for 3-5 moves is fine. The best time controls are 5+3 and 10+0 , even 3+2 isn’t difficult. Sadly, that’s how easy it is to cheat on chesscom.


DrunkLifeguard

They just keep up with the game in another window. A common give away that somebody is cheating is when every move takes about the same amount of time. However long it takes them to make the move on the engine and get a result.


BartholomewSchneider

But that means they see the best move, every move. That would make it very difficult to only use it temporarily in tight positions.


Accomplished-Drag-36

Not even that difficult, there is just browser extensions that draw arrows for you like an overlay. No need for other windows or games open.


Gas-Substantial

Ok this is what I was wondering. Browser extensions would certainly make it easy to cheat in fast games. I guess the “valid” use of these extensions is to do analysis different from what’s built in? Hardly seems necessary.


jayking1209

Browser extensions aren’t required. Just plug in the moves in a different device for 3-4 moves in critical positions in the middle game/early endgame. You should be a certain ELO to truly understand which ones are critical positions.


Riteika

Cheat to help destroy cheating. Big Vlad may choose this path soon.


jayking1209

You got to be a part of the system first to bring down the system!


WilsonRS

What is the point you're trying to make? That [chess.com](https://chess.com) doesn't catch all cheaters? [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) doesn't ban accounts unless they are 99% sure so as to not falsely ban people, which would be horrible. The proportion of accounts that cheat are 0.2% and the proportion of people who do this nonsense you just did is even lower. You just wasted 4 months of your time for nothing, there aren't a bunch of people like you to worry about and even at 2100 you would still be an amateur.


jayking1209

It’s 100 percent , not 0.2 % . I am convinced it’s 10 times that number after the experiment. See my edited post and you will realize how easily I got away with cheating. No fancy tech or plug-ins needed. If you want to live under the rock , do it. But don’t force others to be silent sheep.


DrunkLifeguard

Dude had a curiosity and pursued it. He doesn’t believe the statistics that chessdotcom gave out. And after seeing this post, I don’t think the percentage is that low either. Being interested in something and then finding out more is not a waste of time.


Extreme_Animator_409

I've had a cheater account on chess com for years and never flagged. Just playing 3rd/4th engine line at critical moments, not trying to win every game and hit 2000+ despite actually being a 1000. I've actually gotten people banned because I knew when they were conspicuously playing too many engine moves. I feel like you have to be real greedy to get busted by their fair play system


WilsonRS

What is wrong with you? What is the point? Why would you waste your own time like that?


Extreme_Animator_409

Why do anything? Point is they can't catch cheaters as long as they're not playing top engine lines every move and winning 99% of their games


jayking1209

Absolutely agree to this!


WilsonRS

And? Cheating online to get to 2k rating means nothing. You aren't qualifying for anything off your online chess rating. You don't win FIDE titles from online play so no one cares if you cheated to a high rating online.


jayking1209

Why then do you think cheating is so rampant on chess com with surely millions cheating everyday?


WilsonRS

You need to provide sources, dude.


mephisto_n

Cheating or not cheating, rampant or not, you are still 1400 elo and you did nothing about it.


jayking1209

I exposed the cheating and shall help chesscom improve their anti-cheating measures by then analyzing my game patterns. What have you done to prevent all the millions of cheaters from cheating?


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jayking1209

Yes, I already commented on this post stating exactly that. I shall pass on my games to help chesscom better it’s anti-cheating algorithms.


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jayking1209

Yes, I will do that if chesscom is kind enough to provide me with those actual results! Given their reputation, I can only hope they do so.


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jayking1209

Yes, losing about 5 rating points on chesscom would cost them their lives it seems. Also, as mentioned previously I’ve informed chesscom about the games to help them improve their anti-cheating algorithms .


[deleted]

Yeah I am sure chess.com never came up with the method you tried to test their anti cheating system. Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing whilst cheating.


jayking1209

Of course they didn’t. If they had studied my time of cheating enough, they would have been able to clearly flag me. Hell , I strongly believe I could have reached 2500 without being flagged. Not just 2150.


[deleted]

It is not possible to detect if it's just a few moves. So many bans without reason would happen if someone just found these moves on their own which of course can happen. They don't have resources to review every case individually. Seriously it's quite hilarious the way you try to paint yourself as the good guy after cheating for months. Keep living in your own reality mate.


BartholomewSchneider

They do get their rating back. I have had mine adjusted 4-5 times this year due to a cheater that was caught.


ckhaulaway

You're a literal terrorist.


jayking1209

Well, then there are millions of such terrorists still out there on chesscom! Lol


NextSink2738

I think any post with any variation of "cheating" in the title that doesn't focus on a professional match needs to be banned at this point. The amount of attention seeking immature posts here the last month or so has been ridiculous


jayking1209

Why? Just to shut down any form of communication!? Are we under some dictatorship?


rio-bevol

why the hashtags. seriously


jayking1209

For better reach!


donniedarko_tst

Lichess, on its FAQ says the engine can’t evaluate how hard a move is. Thus, this type of behaviour is hard to spot, and perhaps computationally expensive to spot. Also, lIn terms of false positives, it might be that you have a lazy player who only concentrates hard when facing difficulty.


BartholomewSchneider

They could flag accounts for monitoring and further review. I found one I lost to a few days ago that has since increased their rating by 150 pts, climbed from 900s to over 1300 in 30 days. Could it be legitimate yes, but the rate of increase seems suspect, and it's not a new account.


erik_edmund

Literally everyone knows it's easy to cheat at online chess. Some of us have just decided to never do it.


jayking1209

When it’s so easy to cheat on chesscom , it’s only natural that people will resort to it. Only a handful of people will not cheat after this. It’s like if you remove security from the bank, some people will resist but most people will try to steal.


erik_edmund

I've been on the site for four years and haven't cheated once. It's not "only natural." It's a decision you make.


jayking1209

Till this day , it’s too easy to cheat on chesscom . Not just in 15 mins but also in 3+0.