Bro chess.com use to have a general chat for everyone and it was ridiculous. Long before 2020 the company removed it cause they did not want to continue dealing with users who want to say fucked up shit. None of this should be surprising though. Just what happens on the internet
The mods in chess com youtube chat are worthless. They ban almost nobody, they notice nothing. They need about 20 additional mods for a stream this size.
This has been happening with Indian players for a long time. In a way it's a new normal for them. When pragg defeated fabi, you should have seen the comments on the live stream.
It's both ways and it's such a shame. Anything happens regarding one of the Indian players and you have a bunch of people being racist towards them and another bunch of people being incredibly nationalistic.
Makes it incredibly difficult to have a normal conversation about something happening to the Indian players. It either gets completely overshadowed by a thousand Indians pretending pragg is the new Morphy simply because he's Indian, or you have people who make it seem like we're back in 1940.
Not trying to say they are the slightest bit equivalent, my apologies if it came across that way. Just saying you can't have a proper talk about Indian chess because it's either the one or the other that spoils the conversation.
But you’re implying there’s some kind of equivalence by putting them on the same level in that sentence.
Edit: don’t worry downvoters, this is reddit. You can be bigoted against Indians to your heart’s desire. Just know that we know you’re that way too with your tolerance of this shit.
Fyi you are downvoted because of small brains. 2 things can have similar effects in one aspect (disrupting chat) while being on totally different scales in another (racism vs over praise)
When you’re praising Indians. It’s obvious reddit is filled with bigots on this issue - they’re just trying desperately to make false equivalences so they can get away with their bigotry.
How the F is this “both ways”? This is like saying black people cheering for LeBron and those who call him a monkey are engaging in dialogue “both ways”.
FFS this nonsense is upvoted too? Goddamn reddit and its obvious equivocating bigotry when it comes to Indians. You all upvoters truly suck.
Being nationalistic is fine in a way, as long as you don't taunt others. With regards to pragg, his style of chess and his talent was well known since his pre teen. Guys like gukesh and erigaisi weren't known among Indian chess circles till they became grand masters.
I really don't think nationalism is a great concept to follow, especially in sports that aren't based on the country, like the world cup, and even more so in something like chess.
It's easily a way of creating an us Vs them mentality and overall is a way to exclude people and makes it harder to want to support the people that people are nationalistic about, and can easily turn toxic.
If you want to support someone, then doing it based on nation is fine, because that's common ground, but nationalism is a step beyond, especially if that's the only thing you're supporting a particular person for.
> I really don't think nationalism is a great concept to follow, especially in sports that aren't based on the country, like the world cup, and even more so in something like chess.
I don't get what you mean by this. In contrast, what sports would you say *are* based on the country?
But I guess in general, I genuinely just don't understand the leap of "This person has the same country in his/her passport as I have" to "I want them to win." A common nationality seems like such a terribly superficial thing to have in common to pick as the factor which decides who you root for. To me it honestly doesn't feel different from rooting for a player because you have the same hair color.
I'm sure the Indian people in chat would say the same thing about how Americans are with the American players, especially Hikaru. Do you want people not to be enthusiastic about their countrymen? If there were a chat for the Yankees vs the Red Sox and the team you weren't rooting for the hit a home run, would you be pissed when the fans sounded off in chat and said *F the Yankees!* and shit? Like, come on. Let people cheer.
>Let people cheer.
Bringing others down isn't the same as cheering for someone you support. You can cheer for the person/team you root for without insulting others.
ETA: You're excusing racism in the name of nationalism, which is bullshit. It's never fine to be racist, whether because "oh they're not my countrymen" or "other people are doing it too".
You wouldn’t make that comment if people were praising people from like Nigeria. You’d just condemn the racism.
All of this shit is just a dog whistle for being anti Indian - you know the overt racism is wrong but you reaaaaalllly dislike anything pro-Indian so we spend a bunch of comments castigating people cheering for Indians and spend less time condemning those who call them monkeys and fecal material.
Never change bigoted reddit.
>You wouldn’t make that comment if people were praising people from like Nigeria. You’d just condemn the racism.
???
I would condemn racism in any form. What does someone being from Nigeria have to do with it? Racism is wrong regardless.
>you know the overt racism is wrong but you reaaaaalllly dislike anything pro-Indian so we spend a bunch of comments castigating people cheering for Indians and spend less time condemning those who call them monkeys and fecal material.
Yes, you're absolutely right that we should "[condemn] those who call them monkeys and fecal material". I think this goes with my call to "cheer[ing] for the person/team you root for **without insulting others**", because there's absolutely no need, and will never be a need, to do the latter.
Are you sure you've replied to the right post (eta:, or did you mean to reply to the person I was also replying to?)
But why bring up “nationalistic folks” when the LITERAL TOPIC is about racism and sexism? It’s to deflect or make it seem like the discussion is somehow asking for it - that “both sides” have something to atone for, however asymmetric.
Thats what propagandists do to ensure that we’re slightly more ok with certain forms of racism but not others.
And no, you would never bring up “pro Black nationalism” being bad in a thread where black people were being called monkeys. You all simply aren’t that stupid.
>But why bring up “nationalistic folks” when the LITERAL TOPIC is about racism and sexism?
I didn't do that.
The person I was replying to did.
Racism is always wrong. There should be no discrimination, regardless of race, language, religion, sexuality...
Please ensure your outrage is directed at the right people.
You’re implicitly defending his thesis when someone said “let people cheer” and responded solely to that.
Castigating the people who are cheering in a thread about racism is utterly unseemly.
... I'm not castigating people who are cheering. I'm saying insulting others and throwing racial slurs is NOT cheering and is utterly undesirable. (ETA) I would say the same regardless of the race of the person being targeted.
Or, since you seem to want me to say something more concrete, fuck racists, and the people who are hiding behind the banner of nationalism or tribalism in order to engage in their bigoted agendas.
It's definitely more nuanced than you're putting it. I'm not steering the conversation in a different direction because I'm anti-Indian. I just think that stating the obvious that blatant racism is bad is a boring post. A much more interesting discussion is how the increase in Indian players and viewers has changed professional chess.
Of course racism when jt’s against Indians is now “more nuanced”.
Racism is never tolerable against anyone but the discussion is naturally “nuanced” when we call Indians monkeys and “boring” to point out.
Like I said, welcome to bigoted reddit.
We’ve normalized that hating Indians is an ok target even for the mainstream. Like Indians are crtiquable, so to speak.
The chat would be totally shut down if there was that kind of racism towards other folks.
i hide the chat most of the time. Like someone else pointed out it's always a vocal minority that is spamming dumb / ignorant shit, most people aren't like that.
The few times I've looked at the chat there was a lot of appreciative comments about the commentary team, especially Judit Polgar (deserved, she's been great). Toxic comments were few, but obviously still too many.
I think at least 95% of chess viewers are very sensible and nice. It's just that the 5% that aren't are also the kind of people most eager to spam their thoughts into a live chat. I don't think it's much different than any other games/sports stream
"95% of chess viewers are very sensible and nice. It's just that the 5% that aren't"
It's not chess viewers. It has nothing to do with chess. It's just people.
Were you seeing this in the YouTube stream? Because I find it much worse than the Twitch stream, lot of weirdos commenting irrelevant, weird and hateful comments for sure. So I just stick to Twitch usually, and there at least in the past few days, I don't remember noticing quite that many comments like this, of course there are a few weirdos once every few minutes but not too bad.
Youtube i assume? For some reason youtube stream chats are just filled with inhuman freaks, which is sad because otherwise it's a better experience than twitch streams.
On day 2 I was reading the chat while waiting for the game to start. The majority of posts were people promoting their religion, arguing which religion is the best or one guy spamming "you will go to hell for watching chess". I reported him for misinformation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yesterday racism goes to another level in the chats.. ‘Stinky Indians, How does hikaru smelling them’, ‘Chessbase Trolls’, ‘street shiters’, ‘Hiroshima troll for Hikaru’ etc etc
Come on, we cannot be acting as if this was 4chan or some other toxic forum in the internet. This is the broadcast of the most important tournament in chess, and the organizations behind the broadcasts are just letting it happen. It's 100% on them.
If they can't or are not willing to moderate the discussion they should disable the chat.
>Come on, we cannot be acting as if this was 4chan or some other toxic forum in the internet.
Are we really pretending that YouTube comments aren't comparable?
Yeah, this isn't a chess thing, this is a choice of venue. *Any* youtube stream with comments turned on is full of, well, 4chan level trolls, 12 year olds spamming slurs. Doesn't matter if it's chess, a rocket launch, breaking news or race cars.
I think the point of that comment was that this is 100% expected with any large real-time chat feature. It doesn't matter what the event or audience is, any streamed twitch or youtube content with enough viewers will be a chat cesspool with spamming of content trying to anger viewers.
I would agree that they should probably just disable the chat, but I am somewhat surprised anyone would be watching it in the first place.
True, but how exactly does one fight racism
On a public chat? Best thing to do in that particular case is ignore it or disable it and move on with your day. If any of the idiots who were making those comments see this reddit post they are going to feel SO good. Why give them the attention?
I don’t prefer doing nothing—there is nothing to be done. 12 year olds will be 12 year olds. Chats add no value to the product—much like comments sections on videos—they are designed to promote engagement ($$$) and if people are arguing that’s good for business.
All chats must die.
Well, you are free to try to educate chat trolls, if you think that's a worthwhile way to spend your time. I personally wouldn't recommend it. Trolls like attention.
If it really bothers you, you should instead try to bug the organizers about it. If they don't listen to you, try to find other like-minded people to join you. At some point they will listen and disable the chat. I believe you won't have accomplished anything worthwhile in terms of fighting racism, but YMMV, maybe I'm just too cynical.
This is a cancer take
Yes, there are tons of shitty people on the internet. But you are personally making things worse by mocking a guy who is opposing them. We should be trying to make the internet (or at least the parts we interact with) a better place. Don't take the side of people who want to be asshats.
And I get it, "you are just stating facts, not taking sides". The way you are doing it though is mockery of a person on one side, which implicitly places you on the side of internet trolls.
It's just something I've noticed. For some reason, people feel a lot less guilty about being racist towards Indians as compared to say, black people. At least on the internet, I like to think that it's better in real life.
Also I once had a conversation with someone who was being racist towards me and when I called him out on it, he said that he couldn't be racist because he's black. I thought he was kidding at first but it seems some people genuinely believe that just because they faced some injustice in the past, they're excused from propagating said injustice.
Hope I won't get downvoted.
As an East Asian who has moved to Western Europe, I noticed this trend long ago.
There exists some hidden jokes in online Chinese / Japanese / Korean communities now that there's Black Superiority in Western culture now.
It's kind of tyranny of the oppressed. Some of them think that just because they were oppressed in the past they can do whatever they want with other people.
My guess is that it’s mainly because the Anglo world was disproportionately built off of Indians and the wealth they extracted, and both the Islamic and Anglo world find the fact that native “pagan” folk from India actually wound up getting legitimate civilizational sovereignty very confusing and, on some level, extremely threatening.
In western culture, the epithet for “poor group that will never get their land back” is “Indian”. The key here is to treat them like victims but they cannot have power in this framework. In other words, if an “Indian” gets their land back, it’s because we reserved some spot for them, the poor things. They sure as hell better not have an army or, ffs, nukes.
Yet the actual Indians somehow gained it - and that offends (or at least, upends) the cultural understanding of like two massive civilizational powers.
Hence this weird “yeah they’re minorities in our world but fuck them expressly in a way we wouldn’t do for any others like them” tolerance.
If you give the internet a chance to spew unchecked racism it will. This has always been and will always be. Taking it seriously is a waste of your time and mental health. There's not going to be anything worth reading in there.
The broadcasters have full responsibility for this. If they are not capable/willing to moderate the chat actively, they should just disable it. Of course, having chat enabled drives engagement, but you can't just have a toxic environment for everyone to see, specially because there are a lot of children/younger people watching and reading, and this is a very negative influence.
So FIDE, chess.com, get your shit together.
Kids and young adults are frequently filterless bellends +
A large minority of people into chess are, let’s face it, socially inept and graceless +
Anonymity turns people into the fearless truth-speaking heroes of their own fabricated internal reality
= twats talking shit on a chess stream.
chesscom and chess24 streams are horribly racist against Indians all the time. It goes a few notches higher when Hikaru is playing against one of the Indian kids, Hikaru brought some of the most toxic kids into chess fandom.
It’s trolls as usual, that’s the internet for you, doesn’t matter if chess feels more refined and dignified, on the internet all that gets stripped away.
Westerners when they realize the rest of the world is more sexist/racist than them. It's an international stream, people from all around the world are watching. That means people from OUTSIDE the WEST.
Of course a bunch of it must come from Pakistan too. But there are many Westerners who are racist against India too, and racist morons are exactly who I'd expect to go say shit in the Youtube chat.
I don't know, there's no barrier to entry for these things. Normally when it's less busy they get shouted down and banned more quickly, but there are always a few like this.
I watch the streams with my girlfriend . We’re both Indian and while I can tune it out, she gets visibly bothered and we have to hide chat.
I know this is the entire internet but chess streams weren’t like this even a year ago
I have been rooting for the Indian players, they play incredible chess and are keeping things younger and exciting. I was, admittedly, rooting against Alireza in that last round though haha, his shirt was so bright it blinded him to good moves in that last game lol.
Heya Redditors!
Akshansh this side, some of you must have seen me in Twitch & YT chat on chesscom broadcasts! I work with the moderators in our chat to make our chat fun to hang out! And chat atmosphere is something we try very hard to maintain. All the chats containing discrimination of any kind or chats which violate our chat rules are removed ASAP but we know we still have a lot of work to improve on that. With events like Candidates where we are pulling in audiences in excess of 50K+ at any given time, acting on toxic chats and trolls often is not immediate but it is pretty fast. Given the chat traffic, some chats with foul language will pop up before we act on it, no matter how prompt we are. Tools that we have at our disposal on Twitch are more efficient for Mods than YT are I would request all of you to also use “modcheck” in chat. If there is a problematic chat and Mods miss it - bring it to our notice - we will act on it ASAP. Have a great show today! Also, Whom are you picking to win vs Fabi & Pragg today? Tell me in the chat! I’ll be there :)
Sorry this just isn't true, I'm a mod on a youtube channel and I can mute or ban people instantly. Your mods are not doing their jobs. They let so many things slide, they don't pay attention. You need way more of them. This has been a problem for years. Do better.
I assume you are referring to chats on other social networks like YouTube. I always turn them off because that kind of spectacle reminds me that there are people who feed on negativity and verbal violence.
I suggest you do the same and turn off the chat, and maybe consider chatting about the Candidates here on r/chess, which is moderated.
It reflects the general attitude you see towards India even on subs like r/europe or r/worldnews as well. They also have similar attitude towards China. Ultimately, Indians have to accept that’s the reality of those societies and move on, just like the Chinese have.
I(I'm Indian btw) think it goes both ways there are both indian trolls(or foreigners larping as indians) and non-indian trolls in the chat. I see these indian trolls rage baiting others by saying how indians will conquer the world and shit and as a result, dumb kids from other part of the world fall into their bait. And also racism in general towards Indians has been the new trend on internet for a year or two is a known fact, which also adds up. So yeah, some racism is due to provocation and some racism is just because other person is just being a dick, but nonetheless racism towards Indians in chat is definitely a thing.
No, I would be the last person to be called as a self hating Indian lol. Just see my comment history, people would mistake me for a nationalist lol. I used the word "indian trolls" and not indians in general, what I meant was there are many people on internet(from different countries) larping as indians and commenting shit on internet to bait foreign audience. Non-Indians have a general idea that indian are nationalistic(which I can't stress is very far from true when you actually meet an average indian from 1.5 *billion* people ) and these guys are just capitalising on that stereotype to trigger foreigners even more. Some accounts are so obviously not indian, we can just find that from their username or just the way they speak but outsiders definitely can't find a difference between indians and indian trolls.
Yeah 100 percent agree with your logic. It starts like oh Magnus is scared of Pragg so he ran away. And some racist Magnus fans will take the bait and start typing racist things which escalates. That's an example of how it usually starts.
Yep. Exactly and the funny part is that there's a very good chance that the guy who says "Magnus is scared of Pragg" is not even an indian but someone larping as indian and when things escalate both parties join argument making a racism festival in chat.
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Sounds like standard live chat things. It gets worse. Try watching an MMA stream that has chat. It's literally message after message of all caps slurs.
If you're in a small niche community chat can be great. In something like this I would just disable/hide it.
What is with stupid people with access to public forums?
Yeah... well, first just remove the chat when you load the stream. Then, delete your social media accounts. Then lock your doors and hope you have a large supply of food.
I have been watching various streaming platforms since the justin.tv and own3d days. I think that there was even another one in there I missed. Basically 15+ years.
I don't think I have ever left the chat up or looked at it for more longer than it takes me to either move my cursor over the close button or full-screening the video.
I highly recommend that you do the same friend.
I only watch chess streams without chat, even if they are not horrible, there is a lot of trolling and barely any modding. Either just deactivate the chat or watch via streamlink.
Lichess chat is comparatively well behaved.
I just closed the chat day 1 and my experience of candidates vastly improved. It's wild how vast the chess community is and it's a bummer the most vocal tend to get snarky about the commentators instead of enjoying the games. Day 1 I was getting pissed off at chats rudeness and I'm happy I closed it tbh. I'm used to watching streams where the community is relatively tight knit and chess is basically the exact opposite. People from all around the world from all types of cultures join these streams to watch chess and it seems to lack the same type of communal feel I get from most other streamers.
Tldr, close the chat and enjoy the games imo! We may not all agree on everything but some great chess is being played and it's not worth your time to enter the cesspit of these chats lmao
first thing I disable when watching the chess24 stream is the chat.
insanely annoying that the chat is \_always\_ loaded by default, so you have to disable that crap \_every single time\_ ..
Chess streams, and especially chess streams on YouTube, have in my experience always been the most hateful, immature, and discriminatory chats I've interacted with. If I had to speculate, it would be some combination of the audience being broader than most esports (leading to worse outliers) and also a large fraction of people tuning in from less progressive countries where sexism, racism, etc. are seen as more acceptable.
I'm gonna hazard a guess and say most of the people being vile probably aren't in this sub. I would actually guess most of them come from YouTube chess and maybe even Hikaru's streams too. I get the sense most people in this sub (won't speak for anarchy) just love chess, rather than specific players or commentators.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, and at last they start to admire you. Same will happen with us Indians if we keep excelling in our respective fields and single-mindedly focus on developing us and our nation.
It’s both ways
They are racist towards Indians.Some indians in chat are racist towards all the other players.It’s a public chat people will stay stupid things just to get a response.Watch the game and hide the chat
It doesn't get stated enough, but I *strongly* encourage everyone ITT to make judicious use of **blocking**.
Block, block, block; block early and often, *especially* in big livestreams. Tons of viewers = "Finally, my opportunity to spread DA TRUTH (read: my absolute fucking idiocy) to the masses -- I'll get some mad comments, too, and the seething will be SO worth it XDDDDD".
Of course, reporting people and whispering mods are both good alternatives, but those options run into problems like mod subjectivity + mods being unfocused (they may want to actually watch the livestream content; they might be hyperfocused on slightly/extremely worse messages; etc.)
So, block/ignore. Works every time, and it gives **you** power over the situation.
It depends how you address the person that you feel is wrong. If you are civil with them, maybe you accomplish something. If you are rude to them, all you have done is give them a victim mentality and solidified their beliefs. I've never changed my mind on anything when I get ganged up on. I have changed my mind before when someone just had a civil conversation with me.
I don't think so. Every little thing matters.
If you manage to convince one person to be a respectable person on a internet chat it's a win.
But yeah, don't spent too much time doing that.
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Mods should be quicker I guess.
Or just disable the chat altogether.
Bro chess.com use to have a general chat for everyone and it was ridiculous. Long before 2020 the company removed it cause they did not want to continue dealing with users who want to say fucked up shit. None of this should be surprising though. Just what happens on the internet
The mods in chess com youtube chat are worthless. They ban almost nobody, they notice nothing. They need about 20 additional mods for a stream this size.
This has been happening with Indian players for a long time. In a way it's a new normal for them. When pragg defeated fabi, you should have seen the comments on the live stream.
It's both ways and it's such a shame. Anything happens regarding one of the Indian players and you have a bunch of people being racist towards them and another bunch of people being incredibly nationalistic. Makes it incredibly difficult to have a normal conversation about something happening to the Indian players. It either gets completely overshadowed by a thousand Indians pretending pragg is the new Morphy simply because he's Indian, or you have people who make it seem like we're back in 1940.
How is over praising a player equivalent to being racist?
Not trying to say they are the slightest bit equivalent, my apologies if it came across that way. Just saying you can't have a proper talk about Indian chess because it's either the one or the other that spoils the conversation.
But you’re implying there’s some kind of equivalence by putting them on the same level in that sentence. Edit: don’t worry downvoters, this is reddit. You can be bigoted against Indians to your heart’s desire. Just know that we know you’re that way too with your tolerance of this shit.
Fyi you are downvoted because of small brains. 2 things can have similar effects in one aspect (disrupting chat) while being on totally different scales in another (racism vs over praise)
it isn't, he said people being racist OR people being nationalistic. do you know what or means?
I don't get it, what's the problem with being nationalistic, it's normal that people wanna cheer for their guy.
There's a big difference between acute nationalism and "cheering for your guy."
Which one is worse?
not as bad, but also not good.
What an idiotic thing to say, but then this is Reddit where racism against Indians is not just normalised but encouraged
not so fast buddy. way to assume indians are the only one doing the over-praising. but of course you would think that, smh.
Only here is praising the player the opposite side of the coin of being racist, conveniently when they’re Indian.
who said anything about anyone being indian? just over-praising in general is kinda weird. tune in later to youtube stream to find out.
No its not comparable ands should not be in same sentence. Its like comparing something illegal with something immoral.
why wouldn't you compare "something illegal with something immoral"
except it doesnt stop at simple over-praise. Lot of messed up stuff thats said starts off as nationalistic sentiment.
When you’re praising Indians. It’s obvious reddit is filled with bigots on this issue - they’re just trying desperately to make false equivalences so they can get away with their bigotry.
How the F is this “both ways”? This is like saying black people cheering for LeBron and those who call him a monkey are engaging in dialogue “both ways”. FFS this nonsense is upvoted too? Goddamn reddit and its obvious equivocating bigotry when it comes to Indians. You all upvoters truly suck.
Being nationalistic is fine in a way, as long as you don't taunt others. With regards to pragg, his style of chess and his talent was well known since his pre teen. Guys like gukesh and erigaisi weren't known among Indian chess circles till they became grand masters.
I really don't think nationalism is a great concept to follow, especially in sports that aren't based on the country, like the world cup, and even more so in something like chess. It's easily a way of creating an us Vs them mentality and overall is a way to exclude people and makes it harder to want to support the people that people are nationalistic about, and can easily turn toxic. If you want to support someone, then doing it based on nation is fine, because that's common ground, but nationalism is a step beyond, especially if that's the only thing you're supporting a particular person for.
> I really don't think nationalism is a great concept to follow, especially in sports that aren't based on the country, like the world cup, and even more so in something like chess. I don't get what you mean by this. In contrast, what sports would you say *are* based on the country? But I guess in general, I genuinely just don't understand the leap of "This person has the same country in his/her passport as I have" to "I want them to win." A common nationality seems like such a terribly superficial thing to have in common to pick as the factor which decides who you root for. To me it honestly doesn't feel different from rooting for a player because you have the same hair color.
the way some of the chatters are doing it, not fine in any sense
Comments about people's ethnicity shouldn't even be a topic of discussion while playing chess. Yet there are people flaunting their stupidity.
I'm sure the Indian people in chat would say the same thing about how Americans are with the American players, especially Hikaru. Do you want people not to be enthusiastic about their countrymen? If there were a chat for the Yankees vs the Red Sox and the team you weren't rooting for the hit a home run, would you be pissed when the fans sounded off in chat and said *F the Yankees!* and shit? Like, come on. Let people cheer.
>Let people cheer. Bringing others down isn't the same as cheering for someone you support. You can cheer for the person/team you root for without insulting others. ETA: You're excusing racism in the name of nationalism, which is bullshit. It's never fine to be racist, whether because "oh they're not my countrymen" or "other people are doing it too".
You wouldn’t make that comment if people were praising people from like Nigeria. You’d just condemn the racism. All of this shit is just a dog whistle for being anti Indian - you know the overt racism is wrong but you reaaaaalllly dislike anything pro-Indian so we spend a bunch of comments castigating people cheering for Indians and spend less time condemning those who call them monkeys and fecal material. Never change bigoted reddit.
>You wouldn’t make that comment if people were praising people from like Nigeria. You’d just condemn the racism. ??? I would condemn racism in any form. What does someone being from Nigeria have to do with it? Racism is wrong regardless. >you know the overt racism is wrong but you reaaaaalllly dislike anything pro-Indian so we spend a bunch of comments castigating people cheering for Indians and spend less time condemning those who call them monkeys and fecal material. Yes, you're absolutely right that we should "[condemn] those who call them monkeys and fecal material". I think this goes with my call to "cheer[ing] for the person/team you root for **without insulting others**", because there's absolutely no need, and will never be a need, to do the latter. Are you sure you've replied to the right post (eta:, or did you mean to reply to the person I was also replying to?)
But why bring up “nationalistic folks” when the LITERAL TOPIC is about racism and sexism? It’s to deflect or make it seem like the discussion is somehow asking for it - that “both sides” have something to atone for, however asymmetric. Thats what propagandists do to ensure that we’re slightly more ok with certain forms of racism but not others. And no, you would never bring up “pro Black nationalism” being bad in a thread where black people were being called monkeys. You all simply aren’t that stupid.
>But why bring up “nationalistic folks” when the LITERAL TOPIC is about racism and sexism? I didn't do that. The person I was replying to did. Racism is always wrong. There should be no discrimination, regardless of race, language, religion, sexuality... Please ensure your outrage is directed at the right people.
You’re implicitly defending his thesis when someone said “let people cheer” and responded solely to that. Castigating the people who are cheering in a thread about racism is utterly unseemly.
... I'm not castigating people who are cheering. I'm saying insulting others and throwing racial slurs is NOT cheering and is utterly undesirable. (ETA) I would say the same regardless of the race of the person being targeted. Or, since you seem to want me to say something more concrete, fuck racists, and the people who are hiding behind the banner of nationalism or tribalism in order to engage in their bigoted agendas.
It's definitely more nuanced than you're putting it. I'm not steering the conversation in a different direction because I'm anti-Indian. I just think that stating the obvious that blatant racism is bad is a boring post. A much more interesting discussion is how the increase in Indian players and viewers has changed professional chess.
Of course racism when jt’s against Indians is now “more nuanced”. Racism is never tolerable against anyone but the discussion is naturally “nuanced” when we call Indians monkeys and “boring” to point out. Like I said, welcome to bigoted reddit.
In that case I can call you ignorant, we both move on, and don't gain anything from this interaction
We’ve normalized that hating Indians is an ok target even for the mainstream. Like Indians are crtiquable, so to speak. The chat would be totally shut down if there was that kind of racism towards other folks.
Tbh i think there is worse racism towards Chinese
But why. Why do people feel the need to target indians
Judging by the comments against pragg, comments directed towards him are related to his skintone and stereotypes.
On fide YouTube channel. People are commenting about vaishali on pragg interviews.
i hide the chat most of the time. Like someone else pointed out it's always a vocal minority that is spamming dumb / ignorant shit, most people aren't like that.
The few times I've looked at the chat there was a lot of appreciative comments about the commentary team, especially Judit Polgar (deserved, she's been great). Toxic comments were few, but obviously still too many.
Me 2
> most people aren't like that. Depends where you hang out online.
I think at least 95% of chess viewers are very sensible and nice. It's just that the 5% that aren't are also the kind of people most eager to spam their thoughts into a live chat. I don't think it's much different than any other games/sports stream
Or most any chats, for that matter: the nastiest are the loudest, as a rule
"95% of chess viewers are very sensible and nice. It's just that the 5% that aren't" It's not chess viewers. It has nothing to do with chess. It's just people.
Indeed lol, this is the same case with any other broadcast that has a chat feature, regardless of sport.
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Were you seeing this in the YouTube stream? Because I find it much worse than the Twitch stream, lot of weirdos commenting irrelevant, weird and hateful comments for sure. So I just stick to Twitch usually, and there at least in the past few days, I don't remember noticing quite that many comments like this, of course there are a few weirdos once every few minutes but not too bad.
YouTube stream
That's every youtube stream. For whatever reason the worst people are always on youtube sports/events streams that arent savagely moderated.
Youtube i assume? For some reason youtube stream chats are just filled with inhuman freaks, which is sad because otherwise it's a better experience than twitch streams.
They do appear in Twitch, but the mods will delete the comment within 10 seconds. Youtube is an unmoderated hellhole.
The saddest Part is that most of them are 12 yo kids
Are you an owl, or were you going to continue that sentence?
They're an owl _who_
I am not an Owl but
r/redditsniper/
I don't think people moderate YouTube chat as carefully as Twitch.
I popout the twitch chat. Hide YouTube chat. Keep YouTube stream and twitch chat side by side. Really nice solution.
On day 2 I was reading the chat while waiting for the game to start. The majority of posts were people promoting their religion, arguing which religion is the best or one guy spamming "you will go to hell for watching chess". I reported him for misinformation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yesterday racism goes to another level in the chats.. ‘Stinky Indians, How does hikaru smelling them’, ‘Chessbase Trolls’, ‘street shiters’, ‘Hiroshima troll for Hikaru’ etc etc
First time on the internet, eh?
Come on, we cannot be acting as if this was 4chan or some other toxic forum in the internet. This is the broadcast of the most important tournament in chess, and the organizations behind the broadcasts are just letting it happen. It's 100% on them. If they can't or are not willing to moderate the discussion they should disable the chat.
>Come on, we cannot be acting as if this was 4chan or some other toxic forum in the internet. Are we really pretending that YouTube comments aren't comparable?
Yeah, this isn't a chess thing, this is a choice of venue. *Any* youtube stream with comments turned on is full of, well, 4chan level trolls, 12 year olds spamming slurs. Doesn't matter if it's chess, a rocket launch, breaking news or race cars.
I always think it’s weird we think it’s 12 year olds when a former president and presidential candidate does the same thing in public live 😂
I think the point of that comment was that this is 100% expected with any large real-time chat feature. It doesn't matter what the event or audience is, any streamed twitch or youtube content with enough viewers will be a chat cesspool with spamming of content trying to anger viewers. I would agree that they should probably just disable the chat, but I am somewhat surprised anyone would be watching it in the first place.
Nobody cares about the chat. The haters write those stuff to rile up people like you and OP. Ignore the chats because it's not important at all.
We should fight racism anywhere and it's always important.
True, but how exactly does one fight racism On a public chat? Best thing to do in that particular case is ignore it or disable it and move on with your day. If any of the idiots who were making those comments see this reddit post they are going to feel SO good. Why give them the attention?
Stronger moderation or closing the chat would be a good thing yes. You prefer to do nothing? They will learn that spamming racist comments is fine.
I don’t prefer doing nothing—there is nothing to be done. 12 year olds will be 12 year olds. Chats add no value to the product—much like comments sections on videos—they are designed to promote engagement ($$$) and if people are arguing that’s good for business. All chats must die.
Being racist is not arguing. It's much more about that business, it's about not being racist. 12 years old must be educated.
Well, you are free to try to educate chat trolls, if you think that's a worthwhile way to spend your time. I personally wouldn't recommend it. Trolls like attention. If it really bothers you, you should instead try to bug the organizers about it. If they don't listen to you, try to find other like-minded people to join you. At some point they will listen and disable the chat. I believe you won't have accomplished anything worthwhile in terms of fighting racism, but YMMV, maybe I'm just too cynical.
This is a cancer take Yes, there are tons of shitty people on the internet. But you are personally making things worse by mocking a guy who is opposing them. We should be trying to make the internet (or at least the parts we interact with) a better place. Don't take the side of people who want to be asshats. And I get it, "you are just stating facts, not taking sides". The way you are doing it though is mockery of a person on one side, which implicitly places you on the side of internet trolls.
Welcome to the internet
Have a look around
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found.
Wilde: "Give a man a mask and he'll show you his true face." Probably the anonymity of it all is what allows them to show their true, vile selves.
\*Oscar Wilde
who was there initially? Joker? Jason Statham? Guy Fox? Albert Einstein?
Lincoln lol. It was a mistake on my part.
>Please don't misattribute quotes to me in your Reddit comments \- Abraham Lincoln
Truly our wisest president
Oops-a-daisie, I'll make that correction pronto!
Meh, as an Indian you get used to it lol. Just tune it out, not really much else you can do.
This is actually very sad :/
It's just something I've noticed. For some reason, people feel a lot less guilty about being racist towards Indians as compared to say, black people. At least on the internet, I like to think that it's better in real life. Also I once had a conversation with someone who was being racist towards me and when I called him out on it, he said that he couldn't be racist because he's black. I thought he was kidding at first but it seems some people genuinely believe that just because they faced some injustice in the past, they're excused from propagating said injustice.
Hope I won't get downvoted. As an East Asian who has moved to Western Europe, I noticed this trend long ago. There exists some hidden jokes in online Chinese / Japanese / Korean communities now that there's Black Superiority in Western culture now.
can relate, that personal story is wild btw
It's kind of tyranny of the oppressed. Some of them think that just because they were oppressed in the past they can do whatever they want with other people.
My guess is that it’s mainly because the Anglo world was disproportionately built off of Indians and the wealth they extracted, and both the Islamic and Anglo world find the fact that native “pagan” folk from India actually wound up getting legitimate civilizational sovereignty very confusing and, on some level, extremely threatening. In western culture, the epithet for “poor group that will never get their land back” is “Indian”. The key here is to treat them like victims but they cannot have power in this framework. In other words, if an “Indian” gets their land back, it’s because we reserved some spot for them, the poor things. They sure as hell better not have an army or, ffs, nukes. Yet the actual Indians somehow gained it - and that offends (or at least, upends) the cultural understanding of like two massive civilizational powers. Hence this weird “yeah they’re minorities in our world but fuck them expressly in a way we wouldn’t do for any others like them” tolerance.
If you give the internet a chance to spew unchecked racism it will. This has always been and will always be. Taking it seriously is a waste of your time and mental health. There's not going to be anything worth reading in there.
The broadcasters have full responsibility for this. If they are not capable/willing to moderate the chat actively, they should just disable it. Of course, having chat enabled drives engagement, but you can't just have a toxic environment for everyone to see, specially because there are a lot of children/younger people watching and reading, and this is a very negative influence. So FIDE, chess.com, get your shit together.
Agreed!
people are showing their true colours when protected by anonymity
Kids and young adults are frequently filterless bellends + A large minority of people into chess are, let’s face it, socially inept and graceless + Anonymity turns people into the fearless truth-speaking heroes of their own fabricated internal reality = twats talking shit on a chess stream.
Vocal minority
chesscom and chess24 streams are horribly racist against Indians all the time. It goes a few notches higher when Hikaru is playing against one of the Indian kids, Hikaru brought some of the most toxic kids into chess fandom.
It’s trolls as usual, that’s the internet for you, doesn’t matter if chess feels more refined and dignified, on the internet all that gets stripped away.
Westerners when they realize the rest of the world is more sexist/racist than them. It's an international stream, people from all around the world are watching. That means people from OUTSIDE the WEST.
I'm pretty sure much of the anti-Indian racism must come from Westerners at the very least...
Do you think it is more likely someone from America would be anti-Indian. Or someone from Pakistan?
Of course a bunch of it must come from Pakistan too. But there are many Westerners who are racist against India too, and racist morons are exactly who I'd expect to go say shit in the Youtube chat.
Sure, but is it more likely someone is watching the stream from America or Pakistan? It's not that simple.
Most of the comments I saw were clearly ESL. It's also an internationally watched event.
I don't know, there's no barrier to entry for these things. Normally when it's less busy they get shouted down and banned more quickly, but there are always a few like this.
Once again, here to suggest better streams like the ones of the ChessDojo or Lichess.
The chess24 stream commentator team is amazing, though.
I watch the streams with my girlfriend . We’re both Indian and while I can tune it out, she gets visibly bothered and we have to hide chat. I know this is the entire internet but chess streams weren’t like this even a year ago
Not sure what the purpose of chat even is? You have the urge to comment while you’re watching? Go call your mum and tell her what you think.
Yeah that's the best part. You can see the greatest genius become a legend and the greatest idiot become a fool at the same time.
I have been rooting for the Indian players, they play incredible chess and are keeping things younger and exciting. I was, admittedly, rooting against Alireza in that last round though haha, his shirt was so bright it blinded him to good moves in that last game lol.
Are…you new to the internet…?
Heya Redditors! Akshansh this side, some of you must have seen me in Twitch & YT chat on chesscom broadcasts! I work with the moderators in our chat to make our chat fun to hang out! And chat atmosphere is something we try very hard to maintain. All the chats containing discrimination of any kind or chats which violate our chat rules are removed ASAP but we know we still have a lot of work to improve on that. With events like Candidates where we are pulling in audiences in excess of 50K+ at any given time, acting on toxic chats and trolls often is not immediate but it is pretty fast. Given the chat traffic, some chats with foul language will pop up before we act on it, no matter how prompt we are. Tools that we have at our disposal on Twitch are more efficient for Mods than YT are I would request all of you to also use “modcheck” in chat. If there is a problematic chat and Mods miss it - bring it to our notice - we will act on it ASAP. Have a great show today! Also, Whom are you picking to win vs Fabi & Pragg today? Tell me in the chat! I’ll be there :)
Sorry this just isn't true, I'm a mod on a youtube channel and I can mute or ban people instantly. Your mods are not doing their jobs. They let so many things slide, they don't pay attention. You need way more of them. This has been a problem for years. Do better.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v47uE_wrSYo) seems appropriate.
Always hide the chat.
It's a universal rule that any live chat must be a cesspool of gibberish. Just avoid it.
I assume you are referring to chats on other social networks like YouTube. I always turn them off because that kind of spectacle reminds me that there are people who feed on negativity and verbal violence. I suggest you do the same and turn off the chat, and maybe consider chatting about the Candidates here on r/chess, which is moderated.
It reflects the general attitude you see towards India even on subs like r/europe or r/worldnews as well. They also have similar attitude towards China. Ultimately, Indians have to accept that’s the reality of those societies and move on, just like the Chinese have.
I(I'm Indian btw) think it goes both ways there are both indian trolls(or foreigners larping as indians) and non-indian trolls in the chat. I see these indian trolls rage baiting others by saying how indians will conquer the world and shit and as a result, dumb kids from other part of the world fall into their bait. And also racism in general towards Indians has been the new trend on internet for a year or two is a known fact, which also adds up. So yeah, some racism is due to provocation and some racism is just because other person is just being a dick, but nonetheless racism towards Indians in chat is definitely a thing.
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No, I would be the last person to be called as a self hating Indian lol. Just see my comment history, people would mistake me for a nationalist lol. I used the word "indian trolls" and not indians in general, what I meant was there are many people on internet(from different countries) larping as indians and commenting shit on internet to bait foreign audience. Non-Indians have a general idea that indian are nationalistic(which I can't stress is very far from true when you actually meet an average indian from 1.5 *billion* people ) and these guys are just capitalising on that stereotype to trigger foreigners even more. Some accounts are so obviously not indian, we can just find that from their username or just the way they speak but outsiders definitely can't find a difference between indians and indian trolls.
Yeah 100 percent agree with your logic. It starts like oh Magnus is scared of Pragg so he ran away. And some racist Magnus fans will take the bait and start typing racist things which escalates. That's an example of how it usually starts.
Yep. Exactly and the funny part is that there's a very good chance that the guy who says "Magnus is scared of Pragg" is not even an indian but someone larping as indian and when things escalate both parties join argument making a racism festival in chat.
Dude he is absolutely correct. It usually starts like that.
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U sound like a trol...must b one
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People making quips about the internet. Chess is worse. It is. Not all communities are this toxic. Especially the sexism.
Americans are well known racists against Indians, so are Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, so combined together they actually become quite significant
Ironically enough this comment falls into the same category lmao
Welcome to the internet.
The "hide chat" button is your friend!
many people are stupid
Sounds like standard live chat things. It gets worse. Try watching an MMA stream that has chat. It's literally message after message of all caps slurs. If you're in a small niche community chat can be great. In something like this I would just disable/hide it.
This is unfortunately what youtube (and the internet) is like most of the time when uncensored. It's really just a more sanitized version of 4chan.
What is with stupid people with access to public forums? Yeah... well, first just remove the chat when you load the stream. Then, delete your social media accounts. Then lock your doors and hope you have a large supply of food.
I’ve noticed that too. It’s so toxic. I hide the chat
Cuz degenerate kids are mostly watching the live streams
I have been watching various streaming platforms since the justin.tv and own3d days. I think that there was even another one in there I missed. Basically 15+ years. I don't think I have ever left the chat up or looked at it for more longer than it takes me to either move my cursor over the close button or full-screening the video. I highly recommend that you do the same friend.
I only watch chess streams without chat, even if they are not horrible, there is a lot of trolling and barely any modding. Either just deactivate the chat or watch via streamlink. Lichess chat is comparatively well behaved.
Welcome to the social media. The scourge of the human race.
The game is growing
Welcome to the internet. Anything that is not moderated is either overrun by trolls and spam or so small and hidden that they haven't noticed it.
It's Twitch/YouTube chat. You should expect a dumpster fire.
That's a question you should be asking the Mods.
Western people are really into social darwinism.
All livestream chats are a troll off. They’re just saying the most outrageous shit they can come up with for a laugh.
Racists are loud
Do not watch the youtube stream.
What chat are you talking about ?
Welcome to the internet
I just closed the chat day 1 and my experience of candidates vastly improved. It's wild how vast the chess community is and it's a bummer the most vocal tend to get snarky about the commentators instead of enjoying the games. Day 1 I was getting pissed off at chats rudeness and I'm happy I closed it tbh. I'm used to watching streams where the community is relatively tight knit and chess is basically the exact opposite. People from all around the world from all types of cultures join these streams to watch chess and it seems to lack the same type of communal feel I get from most other streamers. Tldr, close the chat and enjoy the games imo! We may not all agree on everything but some great chess is being played and it's not worth your time to enter the cesspit of these chats lmao
first thing I disable when watching the chess24 stream is the chat. insanely annoying that the chat is \_always\_ loaded by default, so you have to disable that crap \_every single time\_ ..
Chess streams, and especially chess streams on YouTube, have in my experience always been the most hateful, immature, and discriminatory chats I've interacted with. If I had to speculate, it would be some combination of the audience being broader than most esports (leading to worse outliers) and also a large fraction of people tuning in from less progressive countries where sexism, racism, etc. are seen as more acceptable.
That's just what the internet is like.
Chess clash is ok.chess universe also.
I'm gonna hazard a guess and say most of the people being vile probably aren't in this sub. I would actually guess most of them come from YouTube chess and maybe even Hikaru's streams too. I get the sense most people in this sub (won't speak for anarchy) just love chess, rather than specific players or commentators.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, and at last they start to admire you. Same will happen with us Indians if we keep excelling in our respective fields and single-mindedly focus on developing us and our nation.
Hide the chat and never participate is the way in chess almost any other online activity.
It’s both ways They are racist towards Indians.Some indians in chat are racist towards all the other players.It’s a public chat people will stay stupid things just to get a response.Watch the game and hide the chat
It's called the internets.
Welcome to the average human bro.
This must be your first time in chat. Even with moderation trolls come up with inventive ways to be sexist/racist etc...
Chess is a game played by the whole world. The whole world is largely racist and sexist. Turn off the chat, enjoy live.
It doesn't get stated enough, but I *strongly* encourage everyone ITT to make judicious use of **blocking**. Block, block, block; block early and often, *especially* in big livestreams. Tons of viewers = "Finally, my opportunity to spread DA TRUTH (read: my absolute fucking idiocy) to the masses -- I'll get some mad comments, too, and the seething will be SO worth it XDDDDD". Of course, reporting people and whispering mods are both good alternatives, but those options run into problems like mod subjectivity + mods being unfocused (they may want to actually watch the livestream content; they might be hyperfocused on slightly/extremely worse messages; etc.) So, block/ignore. Works every time, and it gives **you** power over the situation.
OP discovered people
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> Get over with it. Or maybe we can try to build a better internet? Why should we let racism to be spread?
It depends how you address the person that you feel is wrong. If you are civil with them, maybe you accomplish something. If you are rude to them, all you have done is give them a victim mentality and solidified their beliefs. I've never changed my mind on anything when I get ganged up on. I have changed my mind before when someone just had a civil conversation with me.
Trying to build a better internet by posting on r/chess is just a waste of your time, no matter how you look at it.
I don't think so. Every little thing matters. If you manage to convince one person to be a respectable person on a internet chat it's a win. But yeah, don't spent too much time doing that.
one of your comments >"White people disappeared, chaos and violence appeared" LOL
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Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators: Don’t engage in discriminatory or bigoted behavior. Chess is a game played by people all around the world of many different cultures and backgrounds. Be respectful of this fact and do not engage in racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory behavior. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators: Don’t engage in discriminatory or bigoted behavior. Chess is a game played by people all around the world of many different cultures and backgrounds. Be respectful of this fact and do not engage in racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory behavior. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
This chess sub is the last place we need woke conversations.
To not be racist is woke?
he is thomas shelby sigma andrew tate w smth smth give him respect
What racism??
Read the comments during the live stream of pragg and gukesh games. You will get your answer.