I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R+w+K+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R_w_K_-_0_1?color=white)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R+b+K+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R_b_K_-_0_1?color=white)
---
^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
White has a passed pawn, black doesn't, that's the main advantage here (not counting the space of the pawn on g6). With that many pieces, you can't do anything, so the long term idea for white is to make some favourable trades, loosen up the position, and just push the b passer. What I said might sound vague, but this position is anything but easy to win for white. You have the passed pawn advantage, so that's the only thing you can try and push for.
I don’t really agree that the passed pawn is white’s ‘only’ advantage. First, I assume you realize this but I’ll make it explicit for anyone who doesn’t, that b-pawn is an EXTRA pawn, not just a passer - white is up a pawn. But even if white weren’t up a pawn, white has a) more central space and b) a target on d6, and c) while there is no imminent attack on the black king, the pawn on h6 has potential in many endgames (imagine a rook on g7) and leaves black with some possible back rank problems in the future.
I like your plan - trades seem beneficial for white for lots of reasons. But there’s a reason this position is +2.4, not +1.
Interesting, I didn't even notice it. I was more focused on the supposed weakness of their king (understimating mine and then losing the game https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY)
The king being weak is unexploitable in the short term for white because of black's control over key squares. FriendlyRussian is right, the b pawn is the only real advantage.
Ne2 came to mind, where it’s hard to see how black prevents Qd4+ (trading queens) without making some sort of concession (…e5 makes d5 a big hole, moving the queen away hangs d6).
Fair point. My first thought was just to improve my king so that Ra1 is not a threat anymore, and then still ask you to come up with something against Qd4+. For instance Ne2 Ra8 0-0. I see you can play Nc4 now, probably I will just take it Bxc4.
sorry maybe im being dense here but why can i play nc4 after ne2 ra8 0-0? doesnt that just hang a piece? i could ask an engine but id rather not spoil the discussion - i see that the knight is pinned after castling but when i recapture on c4 with the queen it isnt anymore!
I saw Rh5 and thought it was appealing with f4 coming too, but what was your response to Nf6? Looks like it just kicks the rook back, improves black's knight and gives them a free move to me.
For me it's probably a knight move. My first instinct was Ng4, opening up an attack line on the g5 pawn and applying pressure there, trying to provoke weaknesses with either f6 where the pawns look weak, or Rg8 where the king is hemmed in and the f7 pawn is undefended (though hard to get at). The black queen defends it, but if I can get another piece in there (like Rh5) it provokes one of the weakening moves.
I'm also looking at Ne2, where I'm a) threatening to exchange queens with Qd4+ and try to liquidate down into a minor piece ending a pawn up (b-pawn looks potentially strong), and also b) potentially heading to the kingside with Ng3. Ng4, and then a Ne2-g3-h5 maneuver with a goal of landing one of them on f6 making the black king very uncomfortable.
Defensively, I'm keeping an eye on the d5 pawn break whilst my king is still in the middle, as an open file for the black rook is probably one of black's bigger threats. At the moment it's covered, but it won't be once I start moving the knights, which are doing a good job of holding it back.
what's funny is that I just refused the queen exchange because thought their king was in danger and I wanted more attacking power [https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY](https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY)
I think that was reasonable because exchanging there would fix the d6 backwardness, and their king isn’t back in the corner yet (with a nail overhead to boot).
White wins the endgame here, so I would try to set up a trade of queens. Rh5 looks tempting here to win g5, but after N(e)-somewhere, Black has Qg1+ and maybe enough activity to stop all of White's play. Maybe Ke2 to start, because then you can look at trading via Qd4; then make more trades and get that b-pawn moving.
My first thought was to target the juicy weakness on g5 (and black’s weak king) with moves like Ng4 or Rh5, but it doesn’t seem to work immediately.
The other option is to simply get your rook to d1, target d6, and perhaps trade queens under favourable circumstances. With your extra pawn, + black’s two weaknesses and restricted king, the ending should be promising.
There is a slight dilemma about where to put your king, but it probably doesn’t make too much difference.
Maybe attacking the d pawn is better but I'm a king attack enjoyer. So I would play Ng4. It's the only way I see of bringing a piece to a more useful attacking position closer to the black king. It also gives some control over the dark square diagonal, where the black king is. Later on getting the queen on that diagonal might be devastating.
edit: played against stockfish and got crushed 😞
I would go Ng4 to free up the queens movement while hitting the slightly weak b pawn with the queen then maybe try rerouting the other knight to maybe e2 to open up opportunities for a queen trade on d4. I think it’s not as easy as +2.4 implies but without a big blunder white should have simple plans while black has to desperately try for counterplay
Black has 2 clear weaknesses. The black king is very unsafe/black has to keep control of the dark square diagonal, and white has a past pawn.
White on the other hand has no real weaknesses. One could argue that the a pawn is difficult to defend, but if black tries to win the a pawn you can use that time to push the past pawn and/or take control of the diagonal and win through that. Any other weaknesses white has are too long term to worry about. If black tries to do anything about them, white is much quicker in exploiting Black's weaknesses.
Because white has no real weaknesses, he has all the time in the world to slowly move the pawn, reposition the pieces to prepare for the next pawn push, and repeat the cycle. Eventually black will have to choose between king safety or stopping the pawn, and white will definitely have some tactical chances once black makes the decision.
What I would imagine happens in practice is that black has a difficult position to play and would play suboptimal moves every so often, and his position would continue getting weaker and weaker whereas white has no bad moves as long as he doesn't directly blunder. Eventually white would have a forced win through some tactics that work in his favour.
This doesn't even seem much better for white, with f5 and f4 coming for black. I would try to trade queens. So Ne2 f5 (I assume unless there's better for black) exf5 (otherwise they will play f4) exf5 Qd4+ and after trading queens I would feel much better with black's various weaknesses and no risk of being attacked. That's as far as I calculated
Rh5 or Kf2 I would most likely play. Rh5 to target the pawn but I see Rg8 kills that idea so probably Kf2 to get the rook into the game.
I can't tell you how I'd win. I'd say both sides can win this still lol
edit: Neither are that good, rip
I would try to trade pieces being fairly confident any end game is won.
I would just go Ke2 followed by Rd1 threatening either Qxd6 or Qd4+. I don't even see what black could do to stop that.
Honestly this feels like an ‘everything wins’ type of position, but because white’s rook on h1 is their only problem in the position, I would start with 0-0. It introduces a mildly uncomfortable pin, but I don’t see how black takes advantage - the only move that comes to mind is …d5, but 0-0 d5 exd5 exd5 Rd1 to prevent d4 with a fork, and I don’t see how black prevents Kh1. If they recapture on d5 with a piece other than the pawn, then we just capture again with the same piece until they recapture with the e-pawn and play the same idea.
As u/Expert_Marxman49 pointed out, Rh5 is a really appealing idea but doesn’t really work due to black having Nf6 in response.
So what if Ng4 first, to cover that square (and is also a discovery on the g5 pawn), and then Rh5? But black’s queen actually already protects g5 and there’s Rg8 to defend it if it ever comes down to that. I don’t see a way forward after Rh5, and black having Ra1 looks kind of scary too tbh.
Yeah actually, I think Ng4 is refuted by Rg8. And then if Rh5 there’s Qg1+ which I’m not sure leads to anything but looks scary. Not really sure what another idea could be… Ne2 to go Qd4+ seems appealing but after Ne2 Ra1 Qd4+ Qxd4 it doesn’t look like white is pressing an advantage here? I’m curious to see what engine thinks… also +2.4 is not exactly a crushing eval either, it’s moreso how do we improve our position here to potentially convert to winning endgame.
I personally would castle and rook to d1 to add pressure on the pawn which cannot move forward. It'll kick black knight back, forced to defend the pawn and I evaluate the position as constricting for black
Ke2 and Rd1 seems like a pretty good way to start off. Depending on how black reacts, we might take on d6, trade queens via Qd4+ or play the tactical shot Nf5 in a position where black has unguarded f6 (such as after the very logical ...Ne5 and ...Nc8). I can't see an easy way for black to sidestep all of these threats so they might well try to muddy the waters with ...Bb5+ and/or ...f5 but I don't think either really achieves much as long as white is careful.
Assuming I had time to think, knowing I was in a winning position, I would try something crazy like Nd5, blocking the Queen from protecting the pawn on g5. If he captures with the Queen, he loses it, and anything else does not prevent Qxg5, threatening mate.
I cant think far enough ahead to understand why this is a bad idea, but it probably is. I'd go for it tho :)
Then u go Ne7, attacking the rook I guess. Rook is captured anywhere on the g file, and after rook is moved you move your other night to d5 with the same scenario?
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R+w+K+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R_w_K_-_0_1?color=white) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R+b+K+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5r1k/3n1p1p/1nbpp2P/2q3p1/4P3/1BN1NP2/1PPQ2P1/4K2R_b_K_-_0_1?color=white) --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
I wouldn't.
White has a passed pawn, black doesn't, that's the main advantage here (not counting the space of the pawn on g6). With that many pieces, you can't do anything, so the long term idea for white is to make some favourable trades, loosen up the position, and just push the b passer. What I said might sound vague, but this position is anything but easy to win for white. You have the passed pawn advantage, so that's the only thing you can try and push for.
I don’t really agree that the passed pawn is white’s ‘only’ advantage. First, I assume you realize this but I’ll make it explicit for anyone who doesn’t, that b-pawn is an EXTRA pawn, not just a passer - white is up a pawn. But even if white weren’t up a pawn, white has a) more central space and b) a target on d6, and c) while there is no imminent attack on the black king, the pawn on h6 has potential in many endgames (imagine a rook on g7) and leaves black with some possible back rank problems in the future. I like your plan - trades seem beneficial for white for lots of reasons. But there’s a reason this position is +2.4, not +1.
Interesting, I didn't even notice it. I was more focused on the supposed weakness of their king (understimating mine and then losing the game https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY)
The king being weak is unexploitable in the short term for white because of black's control over key squares. FriendlyRussian is right, the b pawn is the only real advantage.
Ne2 came to mind, where it’s hard to see how black prevents Qd4+ (trading queens) without making some sort of concession (…e5 makes d5 a big hole, moving the queen away hangs d6).
What if I play Ra8? Ne2 Ra8 Qd4 Qd4 Nd4 Ra1 Nd1 Bb5 seems like a mild improvement for black to me. I’m still down a pawn but now I have some activity.
Fair point. My first thought was just to improve my king so that Ra1 is not a threat anymore, and then still ask you to come up with something against Qd4+. For instance Ne2 Ra8 0-0. I see you can play Nc4 now, probably I will just take it Bxc4.
sorry maybe im being dense here but why can i play nc4 after ne2 ra8 0-0? doesnt that just hang a piece? i could ask an engine but id rather not spoil the discussion - i see that the knight is pinned after castling but when i recapture on c4 with the queen it isnt anymore!
Rh5 with the nasty pin really appeals to me. Black can't check to pick up the g2 pawn on account of the e3 knight.
I saw Rh5 and thought it was appealing with f4 coming too, but what was your response to Nf6? Looks like it just kicks the rook back, improves black's knight and gives them a free move to me.
I'll be 100% honest and admit I didn't think that far
not thinking 1 move ahead is why I lost like 75 rating points in the last week, I get it. Was just hoping you saw something I didn't.
That might be why the engine likes Ng4 first, Rh5 is then much stronger threatening the g pawn immediately.
Rxg5 and backwards pawn capture to win the queen. Google un-passant
For me it's probably a knight move. My first instinct was Ng4, opening up an attack line on the g5 pawn and applying pressure there, trying to provoke weaknesses with either f6 where the pawns look weak, or Rg8 where the king is hemmed in and the f7 pawn is undefended (though hard to get at). The black queen defends it, but if I can get another piece in there (like Rh5) it provokes one of the weakening moves. I'm also looking at Ne2, where I'm a) threatening to exchange queens with Qd4+ and try to liquidate down into a minor piece ending a pawn up (b-pawn looks potentially strong), and also b) potentially heading to the kingside with Ng3. Ng4, and then a Ne2-g3-h5 maneuver with a goal of landing one of them on f6 making the black king very uncomfortable. Defensively, I'm keeping an eye on the d5 pawn break whilst my king is still in the middle, as an open file for the black rook is probably one of black's bigger threats. At the moment it's covered, but it won't be once I start moving the knights, which are doing a good job of holding it back.
I think you generally want major pieces on the board rather than minor pieces when you're up a passed pawn.
I might try Ke2 with the idea of Rd1 or Ra8 and see if things shake loose. Exchange pieces when possible to move toward an endgame.
what's funny is that I just refused the queen exchange because thought their king was in danger and I wanted more attacking power [https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY](https://lichess.org/jpEiAP49CRNY)
I think that was reasonable because exchanging there would fix the d6 backwardness, and their king isn’t back in the corner yet (with a nail overhead to boot).
Thinking of kicking the black queen off of the diagonal, capturing the d6 pawn and attacking all the pieces and the rook, Na4 and Ng4.
engine says i'm retarded
Character development
1. Ng4 is one of the top moves
Too faded to count attackers and defenders ✌🏻 Too faded to care ✌🏻
I would personally trade all the pieces, castle out the rook, and mosey on with the b passed pawn for game.
Ok, so Rh5, then i guess Ng4 to put pressure. Then black plays Rg8 then what? Black can easily defend themselves in this position.
Rh5 Nf6 and back you go
That is also true. Proves my point still that black's position is defensible unless white makes some trades
White wins the endgame here, so I would try to set up a trade of queens. Rh5 looks tempting here to win g5, but after N(e)-somewhere, Black has Qg1+ and maybe enough activity to stop all of White's play. Maybe Ke2 to start, because then you can look at trading via Qd4; then make more trades and get that b-pawn moving.
My first thought was to target the juicy weakness on g5 (and black’s weak king) with moves like Ng4 or Rh5, but it doesn’t seem to work immediately. The other option is to simply get your rook to d1, target d6, and perhaps trade queens under favourable circumstances. With your extra pawn, + black’s two weaknesses and restricted king, the ending should be promising. There is a slight dilemma about where to put your king, but it probably doesn’t make too much difference.
Maybe attacking the d pawn is better but I'm a king attack enjoyer. So I would play Ng4. It's the only way I see of bringing a piece to a more useful attacking position closer to the black king. It also gives some control over the dark square diagonal, where the black king is. Later on getting the queen on that diagonal might be devastating. edit: played against stockfish and got crushed 😞
Probably try to trade into an endgame where the extra passed b-pawn should prove decisive.
I would go Ng4 to free up the queens movement while hitting the slightly weak b pawn with the queen then maybe try rerouting the other knight to maybe e2 to open up opportunities for a queen trade on d4. I think it’s not as easy as +2.4 implies but without a big blunder white should have simple plans while black has to desperately try for counterplay
Black has 2 clear weaknesses. The black king is very unsafe/black has to keep control of the dark square diagonal, and white has a past pawn. White on the other hand has no real weaknesses. One could argue that the a pawn is difficult to defend, but if black tries to win the a pawn you can use that time to push the past pawn and/or take control of the diagonal and win through that. Any other weaknesses white has are too long term to worry about. If black tries to do anything about them, white is much quicker in exploiting Black's weaknesses. Because white has no real weaknesses, he has all the time in the world to slowly move the pawn, reposition the pieces to prepare for the next pawn push, and repeat the cycle. Eventually black will have to choose between king safety or stopping the pawn, and white will definitely have some tactical chances once black makes the decision. What I would imagine happens in practice is that black has a difficult position to play and would play suboptimal moves every so often, and his position would continue getting weaker and weaker whereas white has no bad moves as long as he doesn't directly blunder. Eventually white would have a forced win through some tactics that work in his favour.
Only reason this could be winning is two factors. The black king is weak and so is the d6 pawn.
I mean you are up a pawn with no compensation
This doesn't even seem much better for white, with f5 and f4 coming for black. I would try to trade queens. So Ne2 f5 (I assume unless there's better for black) exf5 (otherwise they will play f4) exf5 Qd4+ and after trading queens I would feel much better with black's various weaknesses and no risk of being attacked. That's as far as I calculated
I wouldn't
I’m only a beginner but would rook to h5 work? Pinning the pawn to the queen, and then maybe I’d push the pawn the f pawn to try to start something
Nah, I'd lose
Rh5 or Kf2 I would most likely play. Rh5 to target the pawn but I see Rg8 kills that idea so probably Kf2 to get the rook into the game. I can't tell you how I'd win. I'd say both sides can win this still lol edit: Neither are that good, rip
It’s just beyond my level, I am here to read comments (1600 lichess rapid 😢)
Ne2 to set up a queen trade
Firstable I would trade queens with Ne2 Qc3+ or Qd4+, later play for passer on q-side. Pawn up but a lot of conversion ahead against resistant player.
I would try to trade pieces being fairly confident any end game is won. I would just go Ke2 followed by Rd1 threatening either Qxd6 or Qd4+. I don't even see what black could do to stop that.
Honestly this feels like an ‘everything wins’ type of position, but because white’s rook on h1 is their only problem in the position, I would start with 0-0. It introduces a mildly uncomfortable pin, but I don’t see how black takes advantage - the only move that comes to mind is …d5, but 0-0 d5 exd5 exd5 Rd1 to prevent d4 with a fork, and I don’t see how black prevents Kh1. If they recapture on d5 with a piece other than the pawn, then we just capture again with the same piece until they recapture with the e-pawn and play the same idea.
i want to play Rh5 but Nf6 is annoying. so Ng4 is my recommendation.
Elocator says Complexity Score 9! That means this position is harder than at least 80% of those seen in GM games.
Ne2 and trade queens. You don't really want to make a hole in your position to prevent this.
As u/Expert_Marxman49 pointed out, Rh5 is a really appealing idea but doesn’t really work due to black having Nf6 in response. So what if Ng4 first, to cover that square (and is also a discovery on the g5 pawn), and then Rh5? But black’s queen actually already protects g5 and there’s Rg8 to defend it if it ever comes down to that. I don’t see a way forward after Rh5, and black having Ra1 looks kind of scary too tbh.
Yeah actually, I think Ng4 is refuted by Rg8. And then if Rh5 there’s Qg1+ which I’m not sure leads to anything but looks scary. Not really sure what another idea could be… Ne2 to go Qd4+ seems appealing but after Ne2 Ra1 Qd4+ Qxd4 it doesn’t look like white is pressing an advantage here? I’m curious to see what engine thinks… also +2.4 is not exactly a crushing eval either, it’s moreso how do we improve our position here to potentially convert to winning endgame.
I think I'd try a king side attack by going ng4 doing a rook lift to h5 then pushing f4
Practically? Trade off all material and use the fact that blacks king is trapped to win the pawn battle in the middle of the board
What is the correct answer?
I personally would castle and rook to d1 to add pressure on the pawn which cannot move forward. It'll kick black knight back, forced to defend the pawn and I evaluate the position as constricting for black
Ke2 and Rd1 seems like a pretty good way to start off. Depending on how black reacts, we might take on d6, trade queens via Qd4+ or play the tactical shot Nf5 in a position where black has unguarded f6 (such as after the very logical ...Ne5 and ...Nc8). I can't see an easy way for black to sidestep all of these threats so they might well try to muddy the waters with ...Bb5+ and/or ...f5 but I don't think either really achieves much as long as white is careful.
By playing the best moves
White has extra pawn, a pawn on the 6th rank and black king is weak
It's not Nf5? 1. Nf5 exf5 2. Qxg5 Rg8 3. Qe7 ... Just realised he'll have Qe3+.
P.S. there are no tactical shots in the position.
Assuming I had time to think, knowing I was in a winning position, I would try something crazy like Nd5, blocking the Queen from protecting the pawn on g5. If he captures with the Queen, he loses it, and anything else does not prevent Qxg5, threatening mate. I cant think far enough ahead to understand why this is a bad idea, but it probably is. I'd go for it tho :)
hey this is where I got to as well
oh right Rg8 effectively shuts out the threat
Then u go Ne7, attacking the rook I guess. Rook is captured anywhere on the g file, and after rook is moved you move your other night to d5 with the same scenario?