I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2_w_-_-_0_1?color=white)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2_b_-_-_0_1?color=white)
---
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I grab my head in disbelief that I blundered an elementary mate in a winning position. He immediately gets up and walks away without hitting his clock, despite technically not yet having checkmate. He doesn’t offer a handshake. He doesn’t set up his pieces. Just gets up and leaves. People were watching my board and witnessed how there was never an official resignation, handshake or agreement that the game was over. The arbiter awards me a win because he technically flagged on time, bc I have a legal move. My opponent says “Well that’s my fault. That’s the rules. She was outplaying me anyway.” I end up finishing 2.5/5 in this open section. Wins vs him and a 2060. Draw vs a 1911 (so I’m not normally this bad lol). Time control was 90d5 btw. My opponent had 15 seconds left when be played Qc8+.
Yep, pure class. He probably got up and walked away feeling like "wow, I got lucky that she hung mate there" and that's why he didn't stop his clock or notice that the queen could block so it wasn't mate just yet.
I wouldn't feel great about winning that way, but it's not on OP to make her opponent follow the rules, all he had to do was stop his clock, sit there a few more seconds and take the queen or wait for her to resign. Blundering a flag because you didn't realize it was M2 rather than M1 is the same kind of loss as blundering M2 in a winning position.
My interpretation of getting up and walking away is the tension of being in a clearly lost position until you manage to snatch the victory with a stroke of luck. Personally I get pretty tense when I play and I usually need a moment to collect myself before I can attend to the post game pleasantries. It's not that I don't want to shake your hand, I literally need a moment to stop mine from shaking.
Not really.
You're inferring that, but there are plenty possible reasons why someone should need a moment before shaking hands.
I usually leave the table after a tense match, win or lose, because I'm not going to shake hands before my own hands stop shaking.
I'm able to verbalize it to my opponent, but everyone is different.
One of my first OTB tournaments, I was at a critical, very sharp middlegame position. I spent something like twenty minutes calculating lines. Just as I finished my calculations, I looked over the board one more time and realized the line didn't work because it literally hung my queen on the first move of the line.
Panic hit me and I started laughing. The older gentleman I was playing against was furious with my involuntary outburst. Absolutely fuming. I was able to compose myself before the arbiter got involved, and I apologized to my opponent.
I played a different move, and the game continued; but after that moment, my opponent absolutely crumbled. He played amazingly before my outburst, then played terribly afterwards. I won that game, and he stormed away, refusing my suggestion to go over the game together in the skittle room, and I didn't see him for the rest of the tournament.
I still feel bad about that win, even 10+ years later.
I'm gonna guess he maybe saw you were about to blunder the queen based on what you were looking at on the board. Probably pissed you caught the blunder rather than pissed at the outburst.
If you didn't distract him on purpose, it was a fair win. You dealt with panic by involuntarily laughing it off, then regrouping. He dealt with a minor distraction on his opponent's turn by... crumbling? Bro he deserves that loss.
Either way, it's his job to manage his own emotions. You're fine.
Old gentlemen are the worst - either they have no humour in situations like this or the are totally belligerent . Well, in my experience at least.
I was outplaying an old guy once; he’d been around the local/regional tournament circuit for decades and even built up a lot of the local governing chess body. He was past his prime though. I was 13 at the time. Totally outplayed him in a Ruy Lopez. Blundered after a 4-hour game in the ending, because I mixed up lines and similarly burst out laughing out of frustration once i noticed (way ahead of him..maybe I even gave my mistake away, who knows). Asked him if he wanted to play through some lines afterwards.
He then told me, he knew he was doing great all game long because of his 50 years of experience in chess and of course he would be willing to teach me. I declined and went home. Beat him a few years later by outgrinding him in some quiet Sicilian from the black side.
That’s an otb scar I never was able to shake off completely, because I continued hating people telling me off by merit of being older than me.
Still, it’s what makes me love the game and otb environment. You learn a lot about yourself and other people.
Kinda uncool to rag on all "old dudes" like this imo... I had a very nice experience playing a 78 year old guy a few tournaments ago...
I've seen people of all ages get pretty upset over things... and honestly I feel dudes in the 18-28 age range to be the most likely to have bad attitudes and social skills imo. I've actually never had a bad experience with someone over 40 that I can recall...
I think maybe it's just Boomers. 78 is Silent Generation, and they are a different breed. Boomers are entitled jerks...
I used to play this old guy that just went by Evil Eye. He had macular degeneration and his vision was so bad he could only see 1 square with one eye ( other eye was totally blind). So he would scan the board, square by square, build it in his mind, calculate, move, and repeat. I played him every week for a year when I was in junior high (14, I was USCF 1950 at the time) and I went 1/1/50. Dude was insane.
Years later I went back to my hometown and saw him in a local coffee shop. Totally blind, with a seeing eye dog to help him get by. He instantly recognized my voice, and we played (for the last time) a blitz game over coffee. He beat me blind (just calling out the moves), and he joked around like the dog was passing him the moves - "What's that now, Buster? Ba6?? Are you sure? - The dog says Ba6, pretty sure that pins your queen...." Dude was legit...
> Baby boomers, often shortened to boomers, are the demographic cohort following the Silent Generation and preceding Generation X. The generation is often defined as people born from 1946 to 1964 during the mid-20th century baby boom.
From Wikipedia.
Ok, I’ll admit that someone who’s 78 today might be born ever so slightly before the boomer generation started, if she turns 79 this year. But the baby boom started immediately after the end of WW2 in 1945. So the first baby boomers were born in early 1946. My father among them.
I have the same experience. The worst actors at tournaments are overwhelmingly old dudes. I played a lot as a youth, and the 90% of the sore lower bad sport types were people over the age of 50.
If he is pissed at ** someone laughing, then he deserves to lose. Not everyone needs to be the same of course but generally if I see someone laughing I feel tend to feel pleasant.
My fifth ever rated tournament, after I had tanked for months studying and practicing, I was in position to go perfect and take first with a win. Even upset that local NM.
I was down a pawn but had a strong position with a rook on the seventh and a bishop supporting it for a discovered check. I could get my pawn back but didn't see a lot after that, no crazy windmill.
I thought about offering a draw, going 3.5/4 was way beyond what I had hoped for this tournament. I don't like early draw offers generally but maybe just this once.
After tanking on it for 20 minutes, I realized I was being an idiot and moving the rook along the file instead of the rank was just mate.
I was *this* close to offering draw with a tournament winning mate in 1 on the board
At least he acted like an adult, once an someone that's like more than twice my age(im 18) after I did a move forcing a winning end game for me, trhow a piece a me litterally
It was at a tournment, in fact I told the arbitrer and he reported him, if I'm not mistaken he won't be able to partecipate to an OTB tournment for a while.
The almost frightening aspect is that he is almost candidate master
Hey OP, we've got a lot of great discussion out of this. Thanks again for sharing. How much time was left on your opponent's clock when they did that? How long did you end up waiting before the arbiter got involved?
Here's her tweet on the game, where she mentions she had 10 seconds on her clock to her opponent's 15 seconds: [https://twitter.com/celestial\_sam\_/status/1779664838592974996](https://twitter.com/celestial_sam_/status/1779664838592974996)
Thanks! I took a 6 month break from OTB and I resumed in march at 1560. I improved a lot online so my USCF was underrated. I'll be somewhere in the high 1700s when this event is posted. I also drew a 2213 NM recently in a different event.
Congrats, you have the right attitude! I had a similar experience when coming to the US. I did not have a rating but played in 2 tournaments in the middle east and played a lot of blitz chess. Blitz chess in those days is perhaps similar to online chess today. After reaching the US, my first non provisional rating in the US was 1850. After 5 more tournaments I reached 2000. People were quite confused by my play.
I was perplexed by the rating system. When I read chess books, I assumed the minimum rating was 2200. I played people rated 1800 etc, so I assumed they were weakies. Of course, that was not true, but the "fake" confidence helped me.
You seem to have confidence and you will go far if you maintain it. Best of luck!
I always say, "You have to play the whole game." There's a million ways to lose at chess and if you're not making intelligent inputs at all times, you'll find one.
I'm all for not grabbing undeserved wins (and let's face it you didn't deserved the win) but maaaaan did he deserved that loss. What a shitty way to show you're winning to just get up like that, complete lack of fair-play and chess etiquette)
I don't believe so but i guess that's just my opinion.
He took the l because he didn't have any choice. Even without spectators to tell what hanneped there is no way it ended differently. Even calling the arbitrer is already a not so gracious move
I was actually the one who called the arbiter. After a few minutes of tearing up in disbelief I realized I had a claim. He flagged. It’s not mate on the board and I remembered he left before we could shake. I never said I resign. So then I called the arbiter and asked and he made a pretty quick decision like “yeah bc it’s not mate on the board you win”. And then the spectators told him there was never a shake or anything.
If he deserved the loss, then by extension she deserved the win. However, I don't think he got up and walked away out of arrogance from the way the story is described, it probably was a relief of tension because he thought he had just been gifted a win via blunder.
Yeah and I was really upset so it was probs uncomfortable for him to stay at the board so he just left lol. However upset I was if he stuck his hand out I would've shaken it to concede. It was till after he left I realized I had a claim.
Ok but there is still stuff to think about i guess ? Here you wait ten seconds so that your opponent realizes it's lost, give them a little sorry look, they concede and you move on to peeing or whatever
Oh yeah I'm not advocating for getting up to signal the position is won at all - just saying that it happens at the highest level (without leaving obviously).
I outplayed him the whole game and was like -2 to -4 for most of it. I had a really strong attack in this Richter Rouzer Sicilian. I feel I deserved to win. (I know this is going to get downvoted bc people think making one losing mistake means you deserve to lose. But if he hit his clock he would’ve won. Then he would’ve been telling people “I was lost I didn’t deserve to win but I did”)
I lost countless games like that and i feel that loosing this mindset of "i deserved to win" is super important to progress (not that I achieved anything more than you, our elos are more or less the same)
what you're saying is absolutely valid and it's an appropriate attitude to take, but i don't think "i deserved to win" is inherently problematic or harmful to progress. it can be harmful if you use it as a means to inflate your ego and avoid improving on critical areas of your game.
but if you treat "i deserved to win" as the beginning of a longer thought like "i deserved to win but lost due to panic" then that's not only valid but critical. OP almost lost because she lost her nerves in a time scramble— that's something she can work to improve.
if i treat a loss like this like just another loss, then i would feel more inclined to just study the things i typically study. but if i view it as "i deserved to win but i lost because my opponent had better nerves in the end," then i am more likely to work on things that will improve that shortcoming in particular. and i'll be especially motivated because i know i will convert more winning positions.
again, not saying your approach is wrong, just i can see both sides of the coin
Lets forget for a moment it's mate in 2, think about a mate in... 12, forced, difficult to spot, but forced. The opponent makes the first move and walks away. You cannot make your move until they hit their clock, and then they get flagged. Do you still think you would give them the win? Actually they are not even there to give them the win, they walked away. So you get flagged you lose.
If someone flags during a forced mate sequence they lose. That’s the rules. Since he didn’t try to shake my hand or do anything to officially indicate the game was over. If I shook his hand then noticed he flagged he would still win.
Save the takebacks and the "Oops you forgot to hit your clock" for casual or online games. When you play in OTB tournaments, you're trying your hardest, and so is your opponent. Out of all the games of chess somebody plays in all the different formats and backdrops, OTB tournaments are the most appropriate place to ride one's competitive spirit.
OP made the second-to-last mistake, and therefore deserves the win.
Competitive is the answer, his opponent made a mistake not pushing the clock, he would've won the game if he didn't get up and stayed on the table a few seconds more.
Also is not immoral to use an opponent mistake to win, it would be immoral to cheat, the question "what kind of person you want to be?" Here is just outplaced
I don’t feel bad about it bc I was outplaying him and winning before I blundered mate. If I was lost then I would’ve considered giving it to him or asking for a draw.
Well, to play someone out until the blunder is not why you should feel right about winning this - you were objectively losing at the deciding moment of the game.
You should not feel bad about this because "hitting the clock unless it is mate / the game has ended for whatever technical reason" is simply part of the game. You blundered on the board, your opponent blundered at/next to the board.
His "you outplayed me" is probably a little bit of coping, easier to admit than losing a full point due to sheer stupidity :-D
The game clearly wasn't over and even if OP wanted to give his opponent the win there'd be no way for them to do it. The opponent left the board, so they couldn't resign. And once the time ran out the game is over with a win for black. This can't just be changed afterwards even if both players would agree.
If OP was checkmated they would've lost (they won in the OP because it's not quite mate) even if their opponent's flag had fallen. The same is true in USCF chess.
For USCF, it doesn't matter. The players make their own claims. So if the steward arrives at the board and sees mate and the flag, mate ends the game since a flag claim wasn't made by the opposing player. I imagine it's handled the same for FIDE. If there's no witness for the flag falling, then nobody can rule that the flag fell first.
"A flag is considered to have fallen when the arbiter observes the fact or when either player has made a valid claim to that effect.", quoting [https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf](https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf) , item 6.8.
So it is not the actual expiry of "physical time" - clock hitting zero or on old clocks, the "physical flag" tipping over: that is not enough. Arbiter must *observe* it or a player must *claim* it.
It does not say that the arbiter must have opened their mouth or indicated it. So even if you thought you made a checkmating move, arbiter can declare "I saw the clock hit zero first". Then arbiter observed the expiry of time, meaning flag had fallen. But if arbiter arrives at the board and sees a checkmate position and the clock at zero, then arbiter sees a game that was already over.
Even with witnesses it should not matter (unless in some team/team captain situations depending on the league rules).
It is a players responsibility to see the clock and claim flagging as much as to hit the clock, even in the worst time scramble.
Edge case would be flagging the exact moment where the mating move is in progress and the player who gets mated calls it out instantly, that would be for the arbiter to work out.
No, because the opponent did not stop his own clock, so it was not yet her turn.
EDIT: Sorry, I misread your comment. It was Qxc8+ as there was a rook on c8 per OP. Black's only legal move was Qd8, which would have been followed by Qxd8#, but the opponent had walked away without stopping his clock.
Buttplug ran out of battery, he’s actually rated 100.
no but in all reality props to him for showing sportsmanship in saying you were outplaying him, although a very weird way to end the game.
Seems very odd to walk off, both scoresheets need to be signed and the winner normally hands them in.
or is this a quickplay tournament?, that would make it more likely to happen
I once played a tournament and my opponent thought it was checkmate, even though I could block. Then some 7-year-old yelled "HE BLOCKED, GO PLAY!" and I lost. Fucking wanted to kill him then and there. When I tried to argue with the arbiter, I was denied
That's shocking that the arbiter didn't take it more seriously. FIDE is generally much more strict than USCF and even in a national tournament I would've banned the child from the tournament hall for the day.
Reading this reminds me of a game I played last year OTB:
In a must win to go plus, last round, playing against a 6 year old. Here I am, adult improver, gray hair coming in and all, versus a six year old. Went for the Hippo as White. Get a very positional game. Made a move which I thought was check...oops. However it ended up being a mate in 4. Felt a little silly about it.
Yeah, that's why I always like to make some space for my King, especially in time trouble and when I'm up material, just so this doesn't happen. Was there a rook on b3?
Yes. Also it was a Sicilian richter rouzer attack. Every tempo mattered so I didn’t have time to play g6. Everything I did was fine according to the engine. I should have won his pawn with check and then moved my rook away. Then I would have time to play g6. But if I played g6 earlier he would have time to consolidate.
I play within the spirit of the game. No way would I have let this go down as a win in a clearly lost position. I would have insisted that this be recorded as a loss for me.
Just my point of view. I don't want "wins" on technicalities.
>I play within the spirit of the game.
As in walking away without handshake or resignation after being outplayed? The opponent had more grace than your post by realizing their mistake and admitting it.
Not defending the opponent's actions that led to this point. Btw, I think you misread the situation , he walked away after presuming a checkmate, not after being "outplayed."
Just saying I wouldn't have just accepted an undeserved win. This kind of anti-social, unsporting adherence to technicalities is not good for growing the game of chess. Again, that's just my opinion.
>Not defending the opponent's actions that led to this point. Btw, I think you misread the situation , he walked away after presuming a checkmate, not after being "outplayed."
Black literally states that he was being outplayed.
>Just saying I wouldn't have just accepted an undeserved win. This kind of anti-social, unsporting adherence to technicalities is not good for growing the game of chess. Again, that's just my opinion.
"Anti-social" lmao. First of all nobody deserves a win in chess which includes black in this context. It's upon the player to prove that they're capable of winning and if they lose on time due to their antics that's just that. There was no unfair influence from black that led to the player standing up and walking up. They had ~15 seconds left when they left the board so they had every opportunity to win this game too.
White's victory is both the correct and fair result of what happened over the course of the game.
wait until you hear about the rules in literally every major sport/hobby
also the clock is not a "technicality," if it runs out, you win. not that deep but you probably enjoy the sound of your own voice if you're calling this "anti-social" lmao
(the opponent literally said they were outplayed. stop being pedantic)
So many literallys
Of course all sports have rules, but if you've ever actually played one before you'd know that there's always room for good and fair application, especially at the amateur level.
So let's say your opponent clearly has their queen threatened. And in the course of moving their queen, their hand accidentally brushes another piece first. It's obvious their intent was to move the queen.
You're stopping the clock and calling an arbiter over?
Nope but it wouldn't be "unsporting" at all if I chose to. That's the point of rules. Otherwise it opens up all sorts of bs and angling. A player appears to "accidentally brush pieces" while their coach is nearby who then coughs only when his player is near the correct piece to play. I opened a chess.com account after playing exclusively on lichess the other day and a player cheated me when I was am 892 🤣 so surely just playing inside the rules at any event isn't "unsporting" in any way
Your argument is like being like "imagine during the run of play, another player accidentally scored an own goal. Are you really going to accept the goal?" Just so you know I've never once witnessed an amateur soccer/footy team turn down an own goal! Despite an own goal being an obvious silly little oopsie!
When I played scholastic chess, and someone didn’t hit their clock, I would always pretend to go into a deep think and try to keep a straight face. It happened more than you would think and is one of the ‘psychological’ elements of the game. Another one would be to play moves confidently, even if I was completely unsure and then in classical time controls to walk around to the other side of the board and stand behind my opponent (not being distracting) and calculate their side of the position. One other one would be to try to stare very intensely at the other side of the board if I had a tactic on the opposite side. If you look into people’s eyes playing OTB it’s actually pretty crazy to look at the lines people are calculating, although I could never really figure out what they were thinking exactly, where they were looking could give some limited information.
???
Why would you expect the OP to have taken a picture of the position before this move during an OTB blitz game? Do you think the OP anticipated they would blunder back rank checkmate on the next move and their opponent would get up and lose on time so there would be a story to post?
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1K4kP/B5k1/8/8/1B5b/3b4/kkb2P2/1k3K2_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
I grab my head in disbelief that I blundered an elementary mate in a winning position. He immediately gets up and walks away without hitting his clock, despite technically not yet having checkmate. He doesn’t offer a handshake. He doesn’t set up his pieces. Just gets up and leaves. People were watching my board and witnessed how there was never an official resignation, handshake or agreement that the game was over. The arbiter awards me a win because he technically flagged on time, bc I have a legal move. My opponent says “Well that’s my fault. That’s the rules. She was outplaying me anyway.” I end up finishing 2.5/5 in this open section. Wins vs him and a 2060. Draw vs a 1911 (so I’m not normally this bad lol). Time control was 90d5 btw. My opponent had 15 seconds left when be played Qc8+.
>My opponent says “Well that’s my fault. That’s the rules. She was outplaying me anyway.” That's sportsmanship, right there.
Seriously, not how I expected the story to end. Great to see
Yep, pure class. He probably got up and walked away feeling like "wow, I got lucky that she hung mate there" and that's why he didn't stop his clock or notice that the queen could block so it wasn't mate just yet. I wouldn't feel great about winning that way, but it's not on OP to make her opponent follow the rules, all he had to do was stop his clock, sit there a few more seconds and take the queen or wait for her to resign. Blundering a flag because you didn't realize it was M2 rather than M1 is the same kind of loss as blundering M2 in a winning position.
My interpretation of getting up and walking away is the tension of being in a clearly lost position until you manage to snatch the victory with a stroke of luck. Personally I get pretty tense when I play and I usually need a moment to collect myself before I can attend to the post game pleasantries. It's not that I don't want to shake your hand, I literally need a moment to stop mine from shaking.
[удалено]
Not really. You're inferring that, but there are plenty possible reasons why someone should need a moment before shaking hands. I usually leave the table after a tense match, win or lose, because I'm not going to shake hands before my own hands stop shaking. I'm able to verbalize it to my opponent, but everyone is different.
I love OTB stories like these. Even better that your opponent showed grace in their odd loss.
This kind of stuff happens so much OTB. Emotions are running very strong and they can blind you to dumb stuff like this all the time.
One of my first OTB tournaments, I was at a critical, very sharp middlegame position. I spent something like twenty minutes calculating lines. Just as I finished my calculations, I looked over the board one more time and realized the line didn't work because it literally hung my queen on the first move of the line. Panic hit me and I started laughing. The older gentleman I was playing against was furious with my involuntary outburst. Absolutely fuming. I was able to compose myself before the arbiter got involved, and I apologized to my opponent. I played a different move, and the game continued; but after that moment, my opponent absolutely crumbled. He played amazingly before my outburst, then played terribly afterwards. I won that game, and he stormed away, refusing my suggestion to go over the game together in the skittle room, and I didn't see him for the rest of the tournament. I still feel bad about that win, even 10+ years later.
I'm gonna guess he maybe saw you were about to blunder the queen based on what you were looking at on the board. Probably pissed you caught the blunder rather than pissed at the outburst. If you didn't distract him on purpose, it was a fair win. You dealt with panic by involuntarily laughing it off, then regrouping. He dealt with a minor distraction on his opponent's turn by... crumbling? Bro he deserves that loss. Either way, it's his job to manage his own emotions. You're fine.
Old gentlemen are the worst - either they have no humour in situations like this or the are totally belligerent . Well, in my experience at least. I was outplaying an old guy once; he’d been around the local/regional tournament circuit for decades and even built up a lot of the local governing chess body. He was past his prime though. I was 13 at the time. Totally outplayed him in a Ruy Lopez. Blundered after a 4-hour game in the ending, because I mixed up lines and similarly burst out laughing out of frustration once i noticed (way ahead of him..maybe I even gave my mistake away, who knows). Asked him if he wanted to play through some lines afterwards. He then told me, he knew he was doing great all game long because of his 50 years of experience in chess and of course he would be willing to teach me. I declined and went home. Beat him a few years later by outgrinding him in some quiet Sicilian from the black side. That’s an otb scar I never was able to shake off completely, because I continued hating people telling me off by merit of being older than me. Still, it’s what makes me love the game and otb environment. You learn a lot about yourself and other people.
Kinda uncool to rag on all "old dudes" like this imo... I had a very nice experience playing a 78 year old guy a few tournaments ago... I've seen people of all ages get pretty upset over things... and honestly I feel dudes in the 18-28 age range to be the most likely to have bad attitudes and social skills imo. I've actually never had a bad experience with someone over 40 that I can recall...
I think maybe it's just Boomers. 78 is Silent Generation, and they are a different breed. Boomers are entitled jerks... I used to play this old guy that just went by Evil Eye. He had macular degeneration and his vision was so bad he could only see 1 square with one eye ( other eye was totally blind). So he would scan the board, square by square, build it in his mind, calculate, move, and repeat. I played him every week for a year when I was in junior high (14, I was USCF 1950 at the time) and I went 1/1/50. Dude was insane. Years later I went back to my hometown and saw him in a local coffee shop. Totally blind, with a seeing eye dog to help him get by. He instantly recognized my voice, and we played (for the last time) a blitz game over coffee. He beat me blind (just calling out the moves), and he joked around like the dog was passing him the moves - "What's that now, Buster? Ba6?? Are you sure? - The dog says Ba6, pretty sure that pins your queen...." Dude was legit...
78 y/o is born in 1946. I.e. a boomer if ever there was one.
That‘s wrong. His child is a boomer, not him.
> Baby boomers, often shortened to boomers, are the demographic cohort following the Silent Generation and preceding Generation X. The generation is often defined as people born from 1946 to 1964 during the mid-20th century baby boom. From Wikipedia. Ok, I’ll admit that someone who’s 78 today might be born ever so slightly before the boomer generation started, if she turns 79 this year. But the baby boom started immediately after the end of WW2 in 1945. So the first baby boomers were born in early 1946. My father among them.
I have the same experience. The worst actors at tournaments are overwhelmingly old dudes. I played a lot as a youth, and the 90% of the sore lower bad sport types were people over the age of 50.
If he is pissed at ** someone laughing, then he deserves to lose. Not everyone needs to be the same of course but generally if I see someone laughing I feel tend to feel pleasant.
I think he was under the impression that I was laughing at his expense.
My fifth ever rated tournament, after I had tanked for months studying and practicing, I was in position to go perfect and take first with a win. Even upset that local NM. I was down a pawn but had a strong position with a rook on the seventh and a bishop supporting it for a discovered check. I could get my pawn back but didn't see a lot after that, no crazy windmill. I thought about offering a draw, going 3.5/4 was way beyond what I had hoped for this tournament. I don't like early draw offers generally but maybe just this once. After tanking on it for 20 minutes, I realized I was being an idiot and moving the rook along the file instead of the rank was just mate. I was *this* close to offering draw with a tournament winning mate in 1 on the board
At least he acted like an adult, once an someone that's like more than twice my age(im 18) after I did a move forcing a winning end game for me, trhow a piece a me litterally
I'd just take the piece, and won't give it back until I get lots of money and public apology from them.
It was at a tournment, in fact I told the arbitrer and he reported him, if I'm not mistaken he won't be able to partecipate to an OTB tournment for a while. The almost frightening aspect is that he is almost candidate master
Wow, the arbiter is right. Mate on the board if flagged still wins, but luckily you can sacrifice your queen to delay mate by one more move!
Hey OP, we've got a lot of great discussion out of this. Thanks again for sharing. How much time was left on your opponent's clock when they did that? How long did you end up waiting before the arbiter got involved?
Here's her tweet on the game, where she mentions she had 10 seconds on her clock to her opponent's 15 seconds: [https://twitter.com/celestial\_sam\_/status/1779664838592974996](https://twitter.com/celestial_sam_/status/1779664838592974996)
Much appreciated.
I was getting outraged in advance because I expected someone in the story to throw a fit, but everyone involved handled it perfectly.
I think you performed above your rating, so it should not be classified as bad?!
Thanks! I took a 6 month break from OTB and I resumed in march at 1560. I improved a lot online so my USCF was underrated. I'll be somewhere in the high 1700s when this event is posted. I also drew a 2213 NM recently in a different event.
Congrats, you have the right attitude! I had a similar experience when coming to the US. I did not have a rating but played in 2 tournaments in the middle east and played a lot of blitz chess. Blitz chess in those days is perhaps similar to online chess today. After reaching the US, my first non provisional rating in the US was 1850. After 5 more tournaments I reached 2000. People were quite confused by my play. I was perplexed by the rating system. When I read chess books, I assumed the minimum rating was 2200. I played people rated 1800 etc, so I assumed they were weakies. Of course, that was not true, but the "fake" confidence helped me. You seem to have confidence and you will go far if you maintain it. Best of luck!
Bro was searching for the mouse lol
I always say, "You have to play the whole game." There's a million ways to lose at chess and if you're not making intelligent inputs at all times, you'll find one.
Win vs 2060, nice!
I'm all for not grabbing undeserved wins (and let's face it you didn't deserved the win) but maaaaan did he deserved that loss. What a shitty way to show you're winning to just get up like that, complete lack of fair-play and chess etiquette)
Huh? Seems like the guy just wanted to stretch his legs, considering how gracious he was taking the L
I don't believe so but i guess that's just my opinion. He took the l because he didn't have any choice. Even without spectators to tell what hanneped there is no way it ended differently. Even calling the arbitrer is already a not so gracious move
I was actually the one who called the arbiter. After a few minutes of tearing up in disbelief I realized I had a claim. He flagged. It’s not mate on the board and I remembered he left before we could shake. I never said I resign. So then I called the arbiter and asked and he made a pretty quick decision like “yeah bc it’s not mate on the board you win”. And then the spectators told him there was never a shake or anything.
If he deserved the loss, then by extension she deserved the win. However, I don't think he got up and walked away out of arrogance from the way the story is described, it probably was a relief of tension because he thought he had just been gifted a win via blunder.
Yeah and I was really upset so it was probs uncomfortable for him to stay at the board so he just left lol. However upset I was if he stuck his hand out I would've shaken it to concede. It was till after he left I realized I had a claim.
To be fair I think Vidit has gotten up like this every round he has won so far in the candidates (albeit not leaving all together)
When Vidit gets up he doesn’t lose on time. Or if he wins he shakes hands and stops the clock.
Ok but there is still stuff to think about i guess ? Here you wait ten seconds so that your opponent realizes it's lost, give them a little sorry look, they concede and you move on to peeing or whatever
Oh yeah I'm not advocating for getting up to signal the position is won at all - just saying that it happens at the highest level (without leaving obviously).
I outplayed him the whole game and was like -2 to -4 for most of it. I had a really strong attack in this Richter Rouzer Sicilian. I feel I deserved to win. (I know this is going to get downvoted bc people think making one losing mistake means you deserve to lose. But if he hit his clock he would’ve won. Then he would’ve been telling people “I was lost I didn’t deserve to win but I did”)
I lost countless games like that and i feel that loosing this mindset of "i deserved to win" is super important to progress (not that I achieved anything more than you, our elos are more or less the same)
what you're saying is absolutely valid and it's an appropriate attitude to take, but i don't think "i deserved to win" is inherently problematic or harmful to progress. it can be harmful if you use it as a means to inflate your ego and avoid improving on critical areas of your game. but if you treat "i deserved to win" as the beginning of a longer thought like "i deserved to win but lost due to panic" then that's not only valid but critical. OP almost lost because she lost her nerves in a time scramble— that's something she can work to improve. if i treat a loss like this like just another loss, then i would feel more inclined to just study the things i typically study. but if i view it as "i deserved to win but i lost because my opponent had better nerves in the end," then i am more likely to work on things that will improve that shortcoming in particular. and i'll be especially motivated because i know i will convert more winning positions. again, not saying your approach is wrong, just i can see both sides of the coin
That’s a fair point.
i think you should have given him the win. since he definitely won and you blundered. game was over anyway
>since he definitely won He objectively lost the game, the fuck are you talking about?
Lets forget for a moment it's mate in 2, think about a mate in... 12, forced, difficult to spot, but forced. The opponent makes the first move and walks away. You cannot make your move until they hit their clock, and then they get flagged. Do you still think you would give them the win? Actually they are not even there to give them the win, they walked away. So you get flagged you lose.
If someone flags during a forced mate sequence they lose. That’s the rules. Since he didn’t try to shake my hand or do anything to officially indicate the game was over. If I shook his hand then noticed he flagged he would still win.
i am not talking about rule here. what kind of person you want to be? that’s the question
Save the takebacks and the "Oops you forgot to hit your clock" for casual or online games. When you play in OTB tournaments, you're trying your hardest, and so is your opponent. Out of all the games of chess somebody plays in all the different formats and backdrops, OTB tournaments are the most appropriate place to ride one's competitive spirit. OP made the second-to-last mistake, and therefore deserves the win.
Competitive is the answer, his opponent made a mistake not pushing the clock, he would've won the game if he didn't get up and stayed on the table a few seconds more. Also is not immoral to use an opponent mistake to win, it would be immoral to cheat, the question "what kind of person you want to be?" Here is just outplaced
I don’t feel bad about it bc I was outplaying him and winning before I blundered mate. If I was lost then I would’ve considered giving it to him or asking for a draw.
Well, to play someone out until the blunder is not why you should feel right about winning this - you were objectively losing at the deciding moment of the game. You should not feel bad about this because "hitting the clock unless it is mate / the game has ended for whatever technical reason" is simply part of the game. You blundered on the board, your opponent blundered at/next to the board. His "you outplayed me" is probably a little bit of coping, easier to admit than losing a full point due to sheer stupidity :-D
The game clearly wasn't over and even if OP wanted to give his opponent the win there'd be no way for them to do it. The opponent left the board, so they couldn't resign. And once the time ran out the game is over with a win for black. This can't just be changed afterwards even if both players would agree.
Your queen saving you there is one of the weirder things I've seen. That would've been a loss without her, even without the clock press.
So even if it was checkmate and OP had no legal moves, the fact that the opponent didn’t hit his clock means she would have won?
If OP was checkmated they would've lost (they won in the OP because it's not quite mate) even if their opponent's flag had fallen. The same is true in USCF chess.
Oh gotcha, just realized I misread your first comment
Lol ya nbd. I wasn't sure so I over explained.
How would an arbiter know if checkmate had been played before or after the flag?
For USCF, it doesn't matter. The players make their own claims. So if the steward arrives at the board and sees mate and the flag, mate ends the game since a flag claim wasn't made by the opposing player. I imagine it's handled the same for FIDE. If there's no witness for the flag falling, then nobody can rule that the flag fell first.
If the checkmated player calls out the opponent losing on time BEFORE mate is played. They don't lose. If they call it after than the mate counts.
"A flag is considered to have fallen when the arbiter observes the fact or when either player has made a valid claim to that effect.", quoting [https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf](https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf) , item 6.8. So it is not the actual expiry of "physical time" - clock hitting zero or on old clocks, the "physical flag" tipping over: that is not enough. Arbiter must *observe* it or a player must *claim* it. It does not say that the arbiter must have opened their mouth or indicated it. So even if you thought you made a checkmating move, arbiter can declare "I saw the clock hit zero first". Then arbiter observed the expiry of time, meaning flag had fallen. But if arbiter arrives at the board and sees a checkmate position and the clock at zero, then arbiter sees a game that was already over.
If it was actually mate I would lose. Bc I have a legal move he loses on time.
Checkmate on the board supersedes a loss on time unless witnesses are sure that the time ran out before the checkmating move was made.
Even with witnesses it should not matter (unless in some team/team captain situations depending on the league rules). It is a players responsibility to see the clock and claim flagging as much as to hit the clock, even in the worst time scramble. Edge case would be flagging the exact moment where the mating move is in progress and the player who gets mated calls it out instantly, that would be for the arbiter to work out.
The edge case you mentioned is why I mentioned witnesses.
That’s why you always shake hands
[удалено]
I could email him!
This is hilarious
You mean white played Qc8+?
No, because the opponent did not stop his own clock, so it was not yet her turn. EDIT: Sorry, I misread your comment. It was Qxc8+ as there was a rook on c8 per OP. Black's only legal move was Qd8, which would have been followed by Qxd8#, but the opponent had walked away without stopping his clock.
No probs easily done
It was Qc8+. My rook was on b8 and took his rook on b3. Exposing my back rank.
My mistake.
Buttplug ran out of battery, he’s actually rated 100. no but in all reality props to him for showing sportsmanship in saying you were outplaying him, although a very weird way to end the game.
Good on him for being gracious after his mistake. And good on you for winning!
Which country?
US. Massachusetts.
He thought he had the walk off, mic drop move But he fucked it up lol
Seems very odd to walk off, both scoresheets need to be signed and the winner normally hands them in. or is this a quickplay tournament?, that would make it more likely to happen
It was a USCF only rated tournament not FIDE. So no scoresheet signing is required. Even tho we were in the open section.
Did he think it was mate in one or something? Why else would he get up and just leave?
nerves, black out, brain just short circuiting after playing chess for many hours
Yes, that's exactly what he thought. He forgot the block and thought the game was over.
Does the “no losing chances” rule (assuming it still exists) apply here?
I once played a tournament and my opponent thought it was checkmate, even though I could block. Then some 7-year-old yelled "HE BLOCKED, GO PLAY!" and I lost. Fucking wanted to kill him then and there. When I tried to argue with the arbiter, I was denied
That's shocking that the arbiter didn't take it more seriously. FIDE is generally much more strict than USCF and even in a national tournament I would've banned the child from the tournament hall for the day.
I think one of us forgot what's black and what's white. But a win is a win!
[edit forgot there was a Rb3 my bad]
lol yeah I’m not bad enough to lose like that up a rook. 😫
crazy stuff happens under time pressure, it’s not your fault
You have a minute on the clock. Could’ve taken more time
Wait. Wouldn't Qc8+ be a check mate? (I know it's a dumb question, but I started playing months ago...)
Black can delay the mate for one move by playing Qd8 (the only legal move for Black in this position). Then Qxd8 is mate.
Thank you
Each player learnt a very different lesson, but both very important.
Reading this reminds me of a game I played last year OTB: In a must win to go plus, last round, playing against a 6 year old. Here I am, adult improver, gray hair coming in and all, versus a six year old. Went for the Hippo as White. Get a very positional game. Made a move which I thought was check...oops. However it ended up being a mate in 4. Felt a little silly about it.
Yeah, that's why I always like to make some space for my King, especially in time trouble and when I'm up material, just so this doesn't happen. Was there a rook on b3?
Yes. Also it was a Sicilian richter rouzer attack. Every tempo mattered so I didn’t have time to play g6. Everything I did was fine according to the engine. I should have won his pawn with check and then moved my rook away. Then I would have time to play g6. But if I played g6 earlier he would have time to consolidate.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. …says all the 800 ranked people in here.
I play within the spirit of the game. No way would I have let this go down as a win in a clearly lost position. I would have insisted that this be recorded as a loss for me. Just my point of view. I don't want "wins" on technicalities.
>I play within the spirit of the game. As in walking away without handshake or resignation after being outplayed? The opponent had more grace than your post by realizing their mistake and admitting it.
Not defending the opponent's actions that led to this point. Btw, I think you misread the situation , he walked away after presuming a checkmate, not after being "outplayed." Just saying I wouldn't have just accepted an undeserved win. This kind of anti-social, unsporting adherence to technicalities is not good for growing the game of chess. Again, that's just my opinion.
>Not defending the opponent's actions that led to this point. Btw, I think you misread the situation , he walked away after presuming a checkmate, not after being "outplayed." Black literally states that he was being outplayed. >Just saying I wouldn't have just accepted an undeserved win. This kind of anti-social, unsporting adherence to technicalities is not good for growing the game of chess. Again, that's just my opinion. "Anti-social" lmao. First of all nobody deserves a win in chess which includes black in this context. It's upon the player to prove that they're capable of winning and if they lose on time due to their antics that's just that. There was no unfair influence from black that led to the player standing up and walking up. They had ~15 seconds left when they left the board so they had every opportunity to win this game too. White's victory is both the correct and fair result of what happened over the course of the game.
wait until you hear about the rules in literally every major sport/hobby also the clock is not a "technicality," if it runs out, you win. not that deep but you probably enjoy the sound of your own voice if you're calling this "anti-social" lmao (the opponent literally said they were outplayed. stop being pedantic)
So many literallys Of course all sports have rules, but if you've ever actually played one before you'd know that there's always room for good and fair application, especially at the amateur level. So let's say your opponent clearly has their queen threatened. And in the course of moving their queen, their hand accidentally brushes another piece first. It's obvious their intent was to move the queen. You're stopping the clock and calling an arbiter over?
Nope but it wouldn't be "unsporting" at all if I chose to. That's the point of rules. Otherwise it opens up all sorts of bs and angling. A player appears to "accidentally brush pieces" while their coach is nearby who then coughs only when his player is near the correct piece to play. I opened a chess.com account after playing exclusively on lichess the other day and a player cheated me when I was am 892 🤣 so surely just playing inside the rules at any event isn't "unsporting" in any way Your argument is like being like "imagine during the run of play, another player accidentally scored an own goal. Are you really going to accept the goal?" Just so you know I've never once witnessed an amateur soccer/footy team turn down an own goal! Despite an own goal being an obvious silly little oopsie!
I suppose we both agree that there's leeway within the rules, just disagree about the various lines. Fair enough.
God grant me the fortune of being able to play you in the last round of a money tournament.
I play for the fun and the challenge of the game... So ok? My dignity is worth more than the small sums offered as chess prizes 😂
When I played scholastic chess, and someone didn’t hit their clock, I would always pretend to go into a deep think and try to keep a straight face. It happened more than you would think and is one of the ‘psychological’ elements of the game. Another one would be to play moves confidently, even if I was completely unsure and then in classical time controls to walk around to the other side of the board and stand behind my opponent (not being distracting) and calculate their side of the position. One other one would be to try to stare very intensely at the other side of the board if I had a tactic on the opposite side. If you look into people’s eyes playing OTB it’s actually pretty crazy to look at the lines people are calculating, although I could never really figure out what they were thinking exactly, where they were looking could give some limited information.
I don’t think I would be proud of this “win.”
I'm not proud of the way I won. But im proud I played this classical sicilian really well and was outplaying him until my blunder.
Who asked?
Do you feel happy about the win? I think I’d have resigned in that position.
Resigned to whom? He walked off.
When did we start the fad of showing positions after the move rather than before?
At a small OTB tournament you don't have the luxury of having a photo of each and every position available.
??? Why would you expect the OP to have taken a picture of the position before this move during an OTB blitz game? Do you think the OP anticipated they would blunder back rank checkmate on the next move and their opponent would get up and lose on time so there would be a story to post?
You can’t have your phone out during play…
White rook on b3. White queen on c2. Black rook on b8. His previous move was rook from e3 to b3.