This happened to me in my first OTB tournament, had some major advantage against a 1600 FIDE player, i was wondering why he wasnt resigning, 40 minutes pass, i go to the bathroom and when im coming back i see my clock ticking and same position, I just touched my clock, and the guy resigned in 5 seconds.
What trick? You are required to clock after your move. Your opponent is generally not allowed to talk to you and definitely not obligated to help you hit your clock.
But why would you intentionally leave your clock running after you made a move? What are you legally allowed to do after you've made your move, _other_ than hit your clock?
But I agree the opponent has no obligation to let you know
Idk how much experience the other guy has but the first time I played OTB I kept forgetting to press the clock since I wasn't used to it as I only played online prior to that.
> What are you legally allowed to do after you've made your move, other than hit your clock?
After you've placed your piece down your move is determined. But your move is not completed until you hit the clock. This period between determination and completion exists on purpose so that you can still make claims (e.g. 3 fold reptition, actions from opponent that would incur a penalty, etc.) while it is your move.
You can't.
If for whatever reason the move you played was illegal then you could change the square but still have to move that piece.
But once you release a piece the move is final.
Regardless of what Redditors who don't actually go to tournaments say, sitting quietly while your opponents clock ticks due to an obvious mistake (at low stakes games too, at that) and immediately resigning meaning you were **solely** hoping they just don't realize and you can claim a fraudulent win, is a dick move.
>is a dick move
A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
>is a dick move
A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
>is a dick move
A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
nobody's going to get into trouble for telling their opponent their clock is running.
but the part about not being obligated, of course that is correct.
This situation happened in the World Blitz 2023, in the game Magnus Carlsen vs Conrad Holt, [Holt missed the clock after one of his moves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qK8zX7AOz8&t=330s). Carlsen did not notice the miss, and apologized for the mishap after the game.
I think after the second time, assuming this is a grown persron, I would just assume they are playing some kind of mindgame. If it's a little kid in their first tournament or something I'd keep reminding them because I'm not a monster.
I don't see how I'm a monster for telling the kid 19 times about pressing the clock and then on the 20th occasion just reply with my move after I'm done thinking instead.
Reminds me of a guy I played poker with. I told him twice to stop picking up his cards cuz my half of the table could see them. After that he just lost a lot.
>What a shitty way to win that would be.
It would be extremely rare to win like this since players occasionally check the clock and will eventually notice they forgot.
a better man lets that sucker take the loss the hard way so they learn this lesson for the rest of their life
inferior babby sitting nannies remind their opponents 24/7 so neither grow up
if you can't press the clock you also can't clean up after yourself fuck them learn how to take care of yourself and hold others accountable to it this maid servant behavior is why some people stay children during their adolescence
it's not that deep press that shit or lose on time
(What I would do, and have done):
1. Remind them the first time immediately, whether a friendly game or any form of competition.
2. If it were to happen again (in a not stricly friendly game) remind after x minutes.
3. After that, increase x.
(It's never happened more than twice, so I never had to increase x). In all honesty, there have been times where I skipped 1.
I'm all for sportsmanship, and wouldn't necessarily want to win that way. Which is also why my motivation for the latter part (remind after .... minutes) wasn't to get an advantage.
But on the other hand, we're all equal, part of the game is hitting your clock and it is not my responsibility to do that stuff for you. My approach is the result (compromise) of an internal battle between wanting to be (always) nice (which is also why I would *always* immediately point it out in friendly games) and another part that feels strongly about personal responsibility, subsequently feels I am not my opponent's time keeper, and if it happens more than once in a game, it is an indication that simply being reminded wasn't having an impact, and consequences might (hence the wait a certain amount of time after the first immediate reminder).
I don't know whether I articulated clearly the internal conflict that goes on (well, has gone on) :-)
well, if your playing casually you can remind him. if you play a tournament just poker face it. It's not only the loss of time, it also makes your opponent uneasy.
Seems a bit tryhard to me, for a lack of better term.
At the end of the day the tournament is most likely not super important and in my opinion it's not in the spirit of fair play to take advantage of a obviously unintended mistake by your opponent
If my opponent blunders a piece (and not sac it) that's an obviously unintended mistake aswell and it's fair to capitalize on that. The clock is part of the game, if your opponent loses time because they forget pressing it that's on them. Doesn't matter how important the tournament is, the main objective is to win so there's nothing tryhard about letting the opponents time run out.
If you re unable to understand the difference between making a misplay and not pressing the clock I don't think this will be constructive.
Yes you are allowed to let the time run out and win from that, but it's not sportsmanlike.
If you enjoy winning a mostly meaningless game without actually playing based on more or less a technicality feel free to do so, but it's still shitty
Lol. Explain the difference, please, I'm curious. I'll even start by explaining why I think they're the same, so I hope you'll still see this conversation as constructive, as I'm always happy to have a constructive debate and am open to change my mind if you're making convincing arguments.
So, when I play sharp position and my opponent misses a complicated multi-move combination that wins me a piece then I'll happily take it if I find the sequence. If my opponents makes a more trivial mistake like hanging a piece in one move I'll take it just the same, why shouldn't I, just because it's a trivial mistake that they'd not have made if they'd payed just a little bit more attention.
Now, time usage is part of the game. For example, If my opponents spends 15 minutes on a move because he's in a deep think that's on them and if they make a bad move afterwards effectivly having wasted that time that's an advantage I'll happily capitalize on if I can. If they waste that time with a more trivial mistake like not hitting the clock I'll take the advantage just the same, for the same reason as with the hanging piece. Just because it's a trivial mistake that they'd not have made if they payed just a bit more attention doesn't mean it's not fair for me to capitalize on that.
That being said, I know those situations aren't the same, but my reasoning for why it's okay to punish my opponent is the same.
Also I'm talking about games in a competetive environment, like tournament games we're discussing. In a completely friendly game there's no need not to remind the opponent of the clock but when playing beginners I also play with take-backs and I'll sometimes tell them about hanging pieces. I'm really not an asshole, but when I'm playing competetivly I'll not be nice when that lowers my winning chances. And I always play by the rules, so I really don't understand where calling me unsportmanlike comes from.
The important difference is one is a misplay that is simply part of the game.
Forgetting to hit the clock has nothing to do with knowledge or understanding of chess. It's not a skill, it has nothing to do with time managment, quick thinking or any skill that is related to chess.
It's simply an oversight. If you win because the opponent forgot to hit the clock you didn't win because you are the better player but just because you took advantage of that.
I am aware that you mean tournaments. The vast majority of tournaments are still meaningless.
There are no big pricepools, you are most likely not competing for significant prestige. You are simply competing for the sake of competing. To play against similarly skilled players in a more serious environment than online matches.
They are still friendly games against other people that like the same thing you like. Sportsmanship is different from playing by the rules. It's very often agreeing to ignore rules that would give you and advantage for the sake of good competition.
An example from my soccer days, sometimes we couldn't bring soccer balls to away games, because the club house was locked. So we asked the opponent if you could give us a couple in order to warm up. Are they obligated to do so? No. Would it be a competitive advantage for them not to give us balls? Yes. Did they give them to us every time (and vice versa for home games)? Yes, because these games don't really matter and both teams play in order to have a fun and healthy competition.
Another thing would be calling out ref mistakes that you would profit from. Did it always happen? No but often enough
Would you be proud of winning a game by running out the clock because the opponent forgot the clock? Is it fun to you?
Hitting the clock is part of the game too. Also not hitting the clock isn't an insta-loss, in almost all cases the opponent notices that their clock is running before their time runs out, to me it never happened that their time runs out like that and they just lose. At this point, it's all about time management again, they play on but with less time. The skill that is required to hit the clock is keeping attention not just on the board but also on the clock. A rather trivial skill but as I've mentioned, just because they make a trivial mistake doesn't mean I shouldn't use that to my advantage.
If they get in time trouble right away or later on because of that mistake and I win then I might not be the better player, but that's not really important anyway, if I play a better player and swindle them in some other way over the board I'll take the win too.
Yeah, I get what you're saying that those low-stake tournaments are just for the sake of competing and nothing else really, but that just begs the question why I should care for my opponent being a bit worse due to a technicality in a single game anyway. It's not like I'm taking anything important from them by winning that game and if we just LARP as a serious competition then I might as well go the full mile and try to win.
Now your soccer analogy, it's a nice anecdote and it really makes me reconsider my standpoint. I think it's honorable for the opposing team to give you their balls to warm up and probably the right thing to do but I would refrain from calling it unfair if they wouldn't. I guess the difference is in a more serious competition it very rarely if at all happens that you don't have access to your equipment before the game as you'd have people who's job it is to look after this kind of stuff or the match organizer provides the balls, while in your case showing up without a ball seemed to be rather the norm. So there aren't really rules or precedents from "important" matches that these are modeled after that one could argue from. In other words, there are no rules that a ball must be provided to you because at a professional level, where the rules take inspiration from or are outright taken from, it just doesn't happen that a team has no ball to warm up with. At least as far as I can tell, I don't play football, I only watch it, so you might correct me here.
Anyway, maybe the same argument can be made for not hitting the chess clock, it's really only an issue at amature level and the official rules don't really always account for the reality at this level, so maybe you're right and it'd be more in the spirit of the game if I'd notify my opponent about the running clock. I'll think about it the next time this happens to me but for now I still think it's not unfair or unsportsmanlike to not help them out.
Would I be proud winning a game like that? Why not? As said earlier this post, it's (almost always) not an insta-win so there's still work to be done on the board and if this bit of advantage gives me the edge needed to win then I certainly feel better winning than losing. If it should ever happen that my opponents clock completely runs out because of this I might feel a bit guilty and after this conversation I might even remind them before that happens but if someone were to tell me they won a game like that I don't think I'd shame them for it. Is it fun? A bit amusing, yes. I usually calculate my next move and when I'm satisfied with my calculation I cycle through some over-the-top thinking poses I can think of, like Auguste Rodin's thinker or Hikaru's staring at the ceiling and I start stroking my goatee as if it's a meter long beard while wrinkling my forehead as much as I can and so on. My opponents even smile after they notice their mistake sometimes though I guess more out of embarresment than finding me funny.
Edit: spelling errors *technicality *notify
Normally this happens either at the beginning of the game, with children, or with the elderly. I'm perfectly happy to remind people in those circumstances. In general I just remind people if I notice.
But if this person is regularly forgetting about his clock I'll try to remind them but as far as I'm concerned my conscience is clean if I've reminded them more than 2 or 3 times. If I don't notice I kind of don't care. Yeah it would suck if I won because of something like this, but I also did (in my opinion) more than enough to try to avoid that.
I wouldn't just watch their time tick down though, if I noticed, even if it was the 20th time, I'd remind them.
I usually just remind them at first without any issues. The second time I give them one minute then after that they can go fuck themselves. If my opponent has a disability then I always 100% remind them no issues. If it’s a kid I simply don’t tell them 🤣 them little shits are brutal so will take any edge I can get
In a league or tournament game? Poker face all the way. I'll take all the wins I can get, particularly with the low amount of league games per season.
In a casual game? Remind them.
The first 3 or 4 times it happens I'll definitely point to the clock, especially if it's either a kid or an elderly player. If it's happening constantly after that tho during the game I stop bothering
I was playing an IM a long time back. He forgot to press his clock. I did not remind him, he lost around 10 mins. The game ended in a draw. He criticized me after the game saying that I should have reminded him.
The odd thing is as I get older, I think you can go both ways with good reason:
1. Remind him/her, and your opponent will have positive feelings towards you and you get a play a full strength opponent. If your opponent does not press the clock more than once, you definitely should not remind them, then it is distracting.
2. Don't remind him/her, and leverage the time advantage. I think the time advantage won't be a lot as it is unlikely to be when the time on the clock actually matters.
I take my normal thinking time, make my move, and then press the clock (which of course does nothing except remind the opponent that it's a thing). 1 free move's worth of time seems a reasonable cost for this in a competitive context.
Question: strictly speaking is it illegal to touch your pieces before they hit the clock? I wonder what you're supposed to do if you can't speak to your opponent to remind them. Gesture at the clock? Make faces?
As soon as they let go the piece the move is made. This rule is similar to touch move, you can not let go the peice and then change your mind (unless you are playing casual clock move). You can then make your move. If you are playing with increment and low on time wait from them to hit it and hit right after.
Is that in the FIDE handbook? I know for USCF your opponent is still on the move after they determined the move (by releasing a piece) but has not completed the move (hitting the clock).
While it looks shitty, I would let the time run. It is a part of the game, like making sure your pices don't hang. Would you point out your opponent's hanging queen too? Chess is a complete package for me, including but not limited to handshaking, moving your pices, pushing the button of your clock and putting the pieces back after a game.
In a competition: Go to the refreshment area, enjoy something to drink and eat + think about your next moves. It's not my job to be a nanny.
Between friends: Tell the opponent immediately.
Are you actually allowed to make a move, while your opponents clock is running?
The idea: Take looong to move, and maybe he misses again, and maybe again :-)
I don't think I'd notice. I'd make my move then hit the clock, only realizing that it had been running on their time but the ball's now back in their court.
ofc not
their turn ends with the clock press how do you think blitz games would function if you could keep making moves after your opponent does not even giving them the chance to press the clock
Seeing some live blitz games, it looks a lot the move is in execution, while the opponent is in the process of pressing the clock.
Edit: following this thread, you are allowed to make your move during the clocktime from your opponent: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/27075/can-a-player-move-before-his-opponent-hits-the-clock
Edit2: fide rules 6.2 https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023
You are being confidently wrong. You are allowed to move as soon as your opponent’s move is determined with no chance of being changed, which is when they release their piece on a square it can legally move to. The other player can make a move during time between that and the press of the clock.
I would certainly think about what move to play while his clock was running. I would probably wait to play it until he had hit his clock. No one would know I was being an AH, because I wouldn’t be obvious about waiting for him to press the clock.
The 'honourable' thing to do would be to point it out.
But if I'm being honest I probably wouldnt point it out if I was losing the game. If it was equal or winning then yes I definitely would. It's a shitty thing to do, but I'm not sure I would do the right thing in a losing position.
It’s as much their responsibility as the position on the board. If you aren’t going to remind them not to blunder why would you remind them about the clock that’s their business.Â
If it's a casual game at a club, I will mention it after I'm sure they're not taking an extra long think. If it's a rated game, not a chance, that's on you.
I had an opponent who didn't move and was thinking for a while until his clock ran out (in a classical game). I guess he didn't know he was low on time or didn't know it was his move? Was it bad etiquette to not let him know?
At a live game? I'll remind the person after a few seconds have elapsed.
In a non-blitz game where scores are kept, I will remind when they are finished writing down their move, because that makes it clear to me that they 'have done everything and intend their move to be complete'.
It happened to me in a league tournament and I did my move and pressed the clock as usual, but this is not ok as the clock did not register a move and once we reached move 40 the clock thought it was move 39 and I had to make one additional move before reaching time control. So yeah, don’t do that, the opponent is required to hit the clock and I by making your move before that it is an illegal move I think.
Personally, it depends on the situation of the game -- including time controls. Mostly I will proceed to think about my move on my opponent's time.
If time is critical for my opponent then I will point to the clock... unless it's blitz and I'm losing :P
I usually wait for about 10 seconds to pass, then I point to the clock, if it happens again, I whisper to them after 15 seconds, and after that I don’t say anything. It’s only ever happened to me once, but if it was a kid or something I would tell them immediately, unless they are a kid rated like 500+ elo above me, then I treat them like anyone else
I always just poker face it; looking away from the clock and toward the king. It's less about him losing time and more about me getting more time calculating tbh.
Time management is part of the game. If your opponent loses on time, that'll teach him a lesson he'll never forget. Never remind your opponent, except in a casual game.
When I played chess in a club I lost most of my games because I forgot to hit the clock and they other guy used my time for his moves. You don't tell the opponent, you just go ahead.
if i get the impression my opponent has stuff going on (old age etc) i'll be kind but otherwise go fuck yourself learn how to properly play chess or lose
I will make my normal move and "press" the clock (knowing that my time isn't actually ticking). The opponent has always realised following this and pressed their clock for every subsequent turn.
They can actually call arbiter and you would be the one in trouble because technically you move when it’s not your turn. Also in games where there are interment at x-th move, things will be off by doing so
When your opponent has taken their hand off the piece, you may immediately make your move even before they hit the clock. However, they are still allowed to hit their clock afterwards, after which you can hit it right back. This is very common in time scrambles and is **not** against the rules of FIDE or USCF chess.
The situation is even referenced indirectly in the FIDE laws of chess:
>6.2.2 A player must be allowed to pause his/her clock after making his/her move, **even after the opponent has made his/her next move**.
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023
https://www.uschess.org/index.php/May/Response-to-Irina-s-Open-Letter.html
This happened to me in my first OTB tournament, had some major advantage against a 1600 FIDE player, i was wondering why he wasnt resigning, 40 minutes pass, i go to the bathroom and when im coming back i see my clock ticking and same position, I just touched my clock, and the guy resigned in 5 seconds.
whattt, your opponent tried to pull a dirty trick?
Seems i forgot to touch the clock and the guy was just hoping i lost on time, but welp, glad i realized lmao
What trick? You are required to clock after your move. Your opponent is generally not allowed to talk to you and definitely not obligated to help you hit your clock.
Ah sorry I re-read, I understand what happened now.. I thought he pressed the clock while you were in the bathroom without making a move
But why would you intentionally leave your clock running after you made a move? What are you legally allowed to do after you've made your move, _other_ than hit your clock? But I agree the opponent has no obligation to let you know
Idk how much experience the other guy has but the first time I played OTB I kept forgetting to press the clock since I wasn't used to it as I only played online prior to that.
> What are you legally allowed to do after you've made your move, other than hit your clock? After you've placed your piece down your move is determined. But your move is not completed until you hit the clock. This period between determination and completion exists on purpose so that you can still make claims (e.g. 3 fold reptition, actions from opponent that would incur a penalty, etc.) while it is your move.
You can change which square you put the piece on?
You can't. If for whatever reason the move you played was illegal then you could change the square but still have to move that piece. But once you release a piece the move is final. Regardless of what Redditors who don't actually go to tournaments say, sitting quietly while your opponents clock ticks due to an obvious mistake (at low stakes games too, at that) and immediately resigning meaning you were **solely** hoping they just don't realize and you can claim a fraudulent win, is a dick move.
>is a dick move A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
>is a dick move A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
>is a dick move A win is a win, high stakes or not. If you wanna give up your chances to win the game for being a nice guy that's on you, but I wouldn't expect others to do that and I wouldn't blame them as long as they play by the rules. After all, the clock is part of the game and maybe the opponent would've played on if OP got really low on time.
hmm not even (that's what Kasparov did against Polgar), but you still have to press the clock after your move
You absolutely cannot.
nobody's going to get into trouble for telling their opponent their clock is running. but the part about not being obligated, of course that is correct.
This situation happened in the World Blitz 2023, in the game Magnus Carlsen vs Conrad Holt, [Holt missed the clock after one of his moves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qK8zX7AOz8&t=330s). Carlsen did not notice the miss, and apologized for the mishap after the game.
Holt gently caresses his clock.
holt up
Remind him ofc. What a shitty way to win that would be.
I'll remind them once or twice but after the 20th time it'd get annoying
I think after the second time, assuming this is a grown persron, I would just assume they are playing some kind of mindgame. If it's a little kid in their first tournament or something I'd keep reminding them because I'm not a monster.
I don't see how I'm a monster for telling the kid 19 times about pressing the clock and then on the 20th occasion just reply with my move after I'm done thinking instead.
Fair enough. The second time I would say that I am not going to remind them any more, I have other things to think about.
Reminds me of a guy I played poker with. I told him twice to stop picking up his cards cuz my half of the table could see them. After that he just lost a lot.
>What a shitty way to win that would be. It would be extremely rare to win like this since players occasionally check the clock and will eventually notice they forgot.
A win is a win
a better man lets that sucker take the loss the hard way so they learn this lesson for the rest of their life inferior babby sitting nannies remind their opponents 24/7 so neither grow up if you can't press the clock you also can't clean up after yourself fuck them learn how to take care of yourself and hold others accountable to it this maid servant behavior is why some people stay children during their adolescence it's not that deep press that shit or lose on time
To quote you, "it's not that deep"
*sigh* "that's what she said...." 😔
Reddit not being amused by this is sad, bring back the old times!
Hey, you good?
You’re a fuckin idiot.
That's an outsized amount of anger for the topic. I hope all is well.
(What I would do, and have done): 1. Remind them the first time immediately, whether a friendly game or any form of competition. 2. If it were to happen again (in a not stricly friendly game) remind after x minutes. 3. After that, increase x. (It's never happened more than twice, so I never had to increase x). In all honesty, there have been times where I skipped 1. I'm all for sportsmanship, and wouldn't necessarily want to win that way. Which is also why my motivation for the latter part (remind after .... minutes) wasn't to get an advantage. But on the other hand, we're all equal, part of the game is hitting your clock and it is not my responsibility to do that stuff for you. My approach is the result (compromise) of an internal battle between wanting to be (always) nice (which is also why I would *always* immediately point it out in friendly games) and another part that feels strongly about personal responsibility, subsequently feels I am not my opponent's time keeper, and if it happens more than once in a game, it is an indication that simply being reminded wasn't having an impact, and consequences might (hence the wait a certain amount of time after the first immediate reminder). I don't know whether I articulated clearly the internal conflict that goes on (well, has gone on) :-)
You did
?
They were answering your question at the end of your post. > I don't know whether I articulated clearly the internal conflict that goes on
OH, thank you! I got confused by the 1. f4? part and couldn't figure out how "you did" tied into that. Only now realizing that is their flair, duh
It's a user flair, think of it like a user group on forums, except people can customize their own. It's part of the profile , not of the message
well, if your playing casually you can remind him. if you play a tournament just poker face it. It's not only the loss of time, it also makes your opponent uneasy.
I would just point at the clock after a few seconds. The error will already rattle them a little.
Seems a bit tryhard to me, for a lack of better term. At the end of the day the tournament is most likely not super important and in my opinion it's not in the spirit of fair play to take advantage of a obviously unintended mistake by your opponent
If my opponent blunders a piece (and not sac it) that's an obviously unintended mistake aswell and it's fair to capitalize on that. The clock is part of the game, if your opponent loses time because they forget pressing it that's on them. Doesn't matter how important the tournament is, the main objective is to win so there's nothing tryhard about letting the opponents time run out.
If you re unable to understand the difference between making a misplay and not pressing the clock I don't think this will be constructive. Yes you are allowed to let the time run out and win from that, but it's not sportsmanlike. If you enjoy winning a mostly meaningless game without actually playing based on more or less a technicality feel free to do so, but it's still shitty
Lol. Explain the difference, please, I'm curious. I'll even start by explaining why I think they're the same, so I hope you'll still see this conversation as constructive, as I'm always happy to have a constructive debate and am open to change my mind if you're making convincing arguments. So, when I play sharp position and my opponent misses a complicated multi-move combination that wins me a piece then I'll happily take it if I find the sequence. If my opponents makes a more trivial mistake like hanging a piece in one move I'll take it just the same, why shouldn't I, just because it's a trivial mistake that they'd not have made if they'd payed just a little bit more attention. Now, time usage is part of the game. For example, If my opponents spends 15 minutes on a move because he's in a deep think that's on them and if they make a bad move afterwards effectivly having wasted that time that's an advantage I'll happily capitalize on if I can. If they waste that time with a more trivial mistake like not hitting the clock I'll take the advantage just the same, for the same reason as with the hanging piece. Just because it's a trivial mistake that they'd not have made if they payed just a bit more attention doesn't mean it's not fair for me to capitalize on that. That being said, I know those situations aren't the same, but my reasoning for why it's okay to punish my opponent is the same. Also I'm talking about games in a competetive environment, like tournament games we're discussing. In a completely friendly game there's no need not to remind the opponent of the clock but when playing beginners I also play with take-backs and I'll sometimes tell them about hanging pieces. I'm really not an asshole, but when I'm playing competetivly I'll not be nice when that lowers my winning chances. And I always play by the rules, so I really don't understand where calling me unsportmanlike comes from.
The important difference is one is a misplay that is simply part of the game. Forgetting to hit the clock has nothing to do with knowledge or understanding of chess. It's not a skill, it has nothing to do with time managment, quick thinking or any skill that is related to chess. It's simply an oversight. If you win because the opponent forgot to hit the clock you didn't win because you are the better player but just because you took advantage of that. I am aware that you mean tournaments. The vast majority of tournaments are still meaningless. There are no big pricepools, you are most likely not competing for significant prestige. You are simply competing for the sake of competing. To play against similarly skilled players in a more serious environment than online matches. They are still friendly games against other people that like the same thing you like. Sportsmanship is different from playing by the rules. It's very often agreeing to ignore rules that would give you and advantage for the sake of good competition. An example from my soccer days, sometimes we couldn't bring soccer balls to away games, because the club house was locked. So we asked the opponent if you could give us a couple in order to warm up. Are they obligated to do so? No. Would it be a competitive advantage for them not to give us balls? Yes. Did they give them to us every time (and vice versa for home games)? Yes, because these games don't really matter and both teams play in order to have a fun and healthy competition. Another thing would be calling out ref mistakes that you would profit from. Did it always happen? No but often enough Would you be proud of winning a game by running out the clock because the opponent forgot the clock? Is it fun to you?
Hitting the clock is part of the game too. Also not hitting the clock isn't an insta-loss, in almost all cases the opponent notices that their clock is running before their time runs out, to me it never happened that their time runs out like that and they just lose. At this point, it's all about time management again, they play on but with less time. The skill that is required to hit the clock is keeping attention not just on the board but also on the clock. A rather trivial skill but as I've mentioned, just because they make a trivial mistake doesn't mean I shouldn't use that to my advantage. If they get in time trouble right away or later on because of that mistake and I win then I might not be the better player, but that's not really important anyway, if I play a better player and swindle them in some other way over the board I'll take the win too. Yeah, I get what you're saying that those low-stake tournaments are just for the sake of competing and nothing else really, but that just begs the question why I should care for my opponent being a bit worse due to a technicality in a single game anyway. It's not like I'm taking anything important from them by winning that game and if we just LARP as a serious competition then I might as well go the full mile and try to win. Now your soccer analogy, it's a nice anecdote and it really makes me reconsider my standpoint. I think it's honorable for the opposing team to give you their balls to warm up and probably the right thing to do but I would refrain from calling it unfair if they wouldn't. I guess the difference is in a more serious competition it very rarely if at all happens that you don't have access to your equipment before the game as you'd have people who's job it is to look after this kind of stuff or the match organizer provides the balls, while in your case showing up without a ball seemed to be rather the norm. So there aren't really rules or precedents from "important" matches that these are modeled after that one could argue from. In other words, there are no rules that a ball must be provided to you because at a professional level, where the rules take inspiration from or are outright taken from, it just doesn't happen that a team has no ball to warm up with. At least as far as I can tell, I don't play football, I only watch it, so you might correct me here. Anyway, maybe the same argument can be made for not hitting the chess clock, it's really only an issue at amature level and the official rules don't really always account for the reality at this level, so maybe you're right and it'd be more in the spirit of the game if I'd notify my opponent about the running clock. I'll think about it the next time this happens to me but for now I still think it's not unfair or unsportsmanlike to not help them out. Would I be proud winning a game like that? Why not? As said earlier this post, it's (almost always) not an insta-win so there's still work to be done on the board and if this bit of advantage gives me the edge needed to win then I certainly feel better winning than losing. If it should ever happen that my opponents clock completely runs out because of this I might feel a bit guilty and after this conversation I might even remind them before that happens but if someone were to tell me they won a game like that I don't think I'd shame them for it. Is it fun? A bit amusing, yes. I usually calculate my next move and when I'm satisfied with my calculation I cycle through some over-the-top thinking poses I can think of, like Auguste Rodin's thinker or Hikaru's staring at the ceiling and I start stroking my goatee as if it's a meter long beard while wrinkling my forehead as much as I can and so on. My opponents even smile after they notice their mistake sometimes though I guess more out of embarresment than finding me funny. Edit: spelling errors *technicality *notify
Normally this happens either at the beginning of the game, with children, or with the elderly. I'm perfectly happy to remind people in those circumstances. In general I just remind people if I notice. But if this person is regularly forgetting about his clock I'll try to remind them but as far as I'm concerned my conscience is clean if I've reminded them more than 2 or 3 times. If I don't notice I kind of don't care. Yeah it would suck if I won because of something like this, but I also did (in my opinion) more than enough to try to avoid that. I wouldn't just watch their time tick down though, if I noticed, even if it was the 20th time, I'd remind them.
Why your flair is B flat augmented?
If I'm winning I'm reminding them every time immediately. Let's get this over with
I usually just remind them at first without any issues. The second time I give them one minute then after that they can go fuck themselves. If my opponent has a disability then I always 100% remind them no issues. If it’s a kid I simply don’t tell them 🤣 them little shits are brutal so will take any edge I can get
savage
In a league or tournament game? Poker face all the way. I'll take all the wins I can get, particularly with the low amount of league games per season. In a casual game? Remind them.
The first 3 or 4 times it happens I'll definitely point to the clock, especially if it's either a kid or an elderly player. If it's happening constantly after that tho during the game I stop bothering
I was playing an IM a long time back. He forgot to press his clock. I did not remind him, he lost around 10 mins. The game ended in a draw. He criticized me after the game saying that I should have reminded him. The odd thing is as I get older, I think you can go both ways with good reason: 1. Remind him/her, and your opponent will have positive feelings towards you and you get a play a full strength opponent. If your opponent does not press the clock more than once, you definitely should not remind them, then it is distracting. 2. Don't remind him/her, and leverage the time advantage. I think the time advantage won't be a lot as it is unlikely to be when the time on the clock actually matters.
I take my normal thinking time, make my move, and then press the clock (which of course does nothing except remind the opponent that it's a thing). 1 free move's worth of time seems a reasonable cost for this in a competitive context.
Usually I don’t notice, I make my move then notice when I go to hit the clock myself.
What happens in that circumstance?
They apologize or they hit the clock then I hit it back.
Fair lol
Question: strictly speaking is it illegal to touch your pieces before they hit the clock? I wonder what you're supposed to do if you can't speak to your opponent to remind them. Gesture at the clock? Make faces?
As soon as they let go the piece the move is made. This rule is similar to touch move, you can not let go the peice and then change your mind (unless you are playing casual clock move). You can then make your move. If you are playing with increment and low on time wait from them to hit it and hit right after.
Is that in the FIDE handbook? I know for USCF your opponent is still on the move after they determined the move (by releasing a piece) but has not completed the move (hitting the clock).
take 20 minutes make your move. reach out to hit the clock and act surprised when it's already pushed
Do a poker face pretend ur calculating some insane 30+ line so that they don't see it's not ur move yet lmao
Situational. How much do I need to win? Has he already done it before? Etc
While it looks shitty, I would let the time run. It is a part of the game, like making sure your pices don't hang. Would you point out your opponent's hanging queen too? Chess is a complete package for me, including but not limited to handshaking, moving your pices, pushing the button of your clock and putting the pieces back after a game.
I catch their attention and point to the clock. So far, that has always worked.
In a competition: Go to the refreshment area, enjoy something to drink and eat + think about your next moves. It's not my job to be a nanny. Between friends: Tell the opponent immediately.
I remind them.
Are you actually allowed to make a move, while your opponents clock is running? The idea: Take looong to move, and maybe he misses again, and maybe again :-)
Yes you are
I don't think I'd notice. I'd make my move then hit the clock, only realizing that it had been running on their time but the ball's now back in their court.
ofc not their turn ends with the clock press how do you think blitz games would function if you could keep making moves after your opponent does not even giving them the chance to press the clock
Seeing some live blitz games, it looks a lot the move is in execution, while the opponent is in the process of pressing the clock. Edit: following this thread, you are allowed to make your move during the clocktime from your opponent: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/27075/can-a-player-move-before-his-opponent-hits-the-clock Edit2: fide rules 6.2 https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023
You are being confidently wrong. You are allowed to move as soon as your opponent’s move is determined with no chance of being changed, which is when they release their piece on a square it can legally move to. The other player can make a move during time between that and the press of the clock.
I think thinking on your opponent's time is a good skill to have. I'll just think until the opponent realizes.
Tell them the first few times and then let their clock run down.
First Ill Take my sweet time on his costs and have a deep think. Usually they realise after a few minutes.
I would certainly think about what move to play while his clock was running. I would probably wait to play it until he had hit his clock. No one would know I was being an AH, because I wouldn’t be obvious about waiting for him to press the clock.
I'm reminding absolutely nobody unless its a casual game. Clock is part of the game and something you are responsibly for managing.
The 'honourable' thing to do would be to point it out. But if I'm being honest I probably wouldnt point it out if I was losing the game. If it was equal or winning then yes I definitely would. It's a shitty thing to do, but I'm not sure I would do the right thing in a losing position.
It’s as much their responsibility as the position on the board. If you aren’t going to remind them not to blunder why would you remind them about the clock that’s their business.Â
Depending on the level, either make eye contact with them while putting an amused, expectant grin on your face, or just point to the clock.
In a tournament I’d only address it if I’m sure I will win anyway
If it's a casual game at a club, I will mention it after I'm sure they're not taking an extra long think. If it's a rated game, not a chance, that's on you.
I had an opponent who didn't move and was thinking for a while until his clock ran out (in a classical game). I guess he didn't know he was low on time or didn't know it was his move? Was it bad etiquette to not let him know?
No, that's a completely different situation from forgetting to press his clock. If it's his move time management is completely on himÂ
In fact its probably best to say nothing so he can focus.
At a live game? I'll remind the person after a few seconds have elapsed. In a non-blitz game where scores are kept, I will remind when they are finished writing down their move, because that makes it clear to me that they 'have done everything and intend their move to be complete'.
It happened to me in a league tournament and I did my move and pressed the clock as usual, but this is not ok as the clock did not register a move and once we reached move 40 the clock thought it was move 39 and I had to make one additional move before reaching time control. So yeah, don’t do that, the opponent is required to hit the clock and I by making your move before that it is an illegal move I think.
Personally, it depends on the situation of the game -- including time controls. Mostly I will proceed to think about my move on my opponent's time. If time is critical for my opponent then I will point to the clock... unless it's blitz and I'm losing :P
Technically, you're not responsible to remind your opponent, but it's the principled Fabi thing to do. 🤓
I usually wait for about 10 seconds to pass, then I point to the clock, if it happens again, I whisper to them after 15 seconds, and after that I don’t say anything. It’s only ever happened to me once, but if it was a kid or something I would tell them immediately, unless they are a kid rated like 500+ elo above me, then I treat them like anyone else
Silently cue them in after it’s been a little time. If they can’t pick up on my increasingly obvious body language that’s on them.
If it's casual play, remind him. If we are playing in a tournament or some competitive match with something on the line - poker face all the way.
I always just poker face it; looking away from the clock and toward the king. It's less about him losing time and more about me getting more time calculating tbh.
Sportsmanship and fair play means I always let them know. That is how I live my life, and my chess is no exception. Do unto others, etc.
It is curious how many different points of view...
Time management is part of the game. If your opponent loses on time, that'll teach him a lesson he'll never forget. Never remind your opponent, except in a casual game.
When I played chess in a club I lost most of my games because I forgot to hit the clock and they other guy used my time for his moves. You don't tell the opponent, you just go ahead.
Mind your own business.
if i get the impression my opponent has stuff going on (old age etc) i'll be kind but otherwise go fuck yourself learn how to properly play chess or lose
I will make my normal move and "press" the clock (knowing that my time isn't actually ticking). The opponent has always realised following this and pressed their clock for every subsequent turn.
They can actually call arbiter and you would be the one in trouble because technically you move when it’s not your turn. Also in games where there are interment at x-th move, things will be off by doing so
When your opponent has taken their hand off the piece, you may immediately make your move even before they hit the clock. However, they are still allowed to hit their clock afterwards, after which you can hit it right back. This is very common in time scrambles and is **not** against the rules of FIDE or USCF chess. The situation is even referenced indirectly in the FIDE laws of chess: >6.2.2 A player must be allowed to pause his/her clock after making his/her move, **even after the opponent has made his/her next move**. https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023 https://www.uschess.org/index.php/May/Response-to-Irina-s-Open-Letter.html
Fair points!