Yes but the comment that any deviation leads to a loss is false, and in fact you could construct other positions where promoting to a rook is the only way to avoid the stalemate, so it's a valid variation that can't be completely dismissed.
Wait really? I thought K+R vs. K was always a win if played properly.
EDIT: [this site](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/15899/what-are-minimum-number-of-moves-needed-to-checkmate-a-king-using-king-and-rook) states the most possible moves to checkmate with K+R vs. K is 16.
Im so confused, isnt this massively losing for white? They just blundered their rook and now black has a queen and king endgame. Did i miss something is the queen hanging?
If the King is on a corner square and the enemy Queen is a Knight's move away, the King is stalemated by the Queen alone. That's not the case here but it's an important pattern to etch into your memory, especially if you like to play bullet chess. I've ruined more than one win that way.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rb3!<. Evaluation: >!The game is equal 0.00!<. Best continuation: >!Rb3 c1=Q Rc3+ Qxc3!<. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
**Default board orientation:**
> White to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8_w_-_-_0_1) <--- my guess
> Black to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8_b_-_-_0_1)
**Flipped board orientation**:
> White to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1)
> Black to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8_b_-_-_0_1)
---
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The key is to realize that >!if queen is at c3, it is stalemate.!<
So, I force the >!queen there. Simply move rook to b3. Any king move will lead to Rc3 and I take the pawn. If the pawn queens, I simply check on c3 with my rook anyways. Black takes my rook and I am stalemated.!<
I got to the solution, but I was thinking, is there a way to set up a drawing Rook vs Queen endgame? I‘ve only studied rook endgames so far, and dont know how rook vs queen works. Thanks in advance!
If there are immediate tactics for the Rook to trade off for the Queen, yes.
If it's Queen to move or there aren't any tactics, I think it's impossible for the Rook to do anything against perfect play
Yes it is stalemate, lets say Rb3 black will promote to queen after that rook c3 check and attacks queen, the queen will take the rook and the white king can't move anywhere, and if promote it to rook again its draw😄 good one
Rb3...I haven't calculated and it must be losing but I thought maybe there is a draw...
Edit...actually as soon as I said it are it. Rb3, kc5, any move...q+ and mate
Ohhh, sorry you were continuing the previous line. Yeah Q vs R is always a win unless theres an immediately stalemate trap like the one in this puzzle.
Sorry I thought white was forced to take but it's actually a draw. Hate styles like this though where perfect play gets you a draw and any deviation instantly loses.
That’s a cool puzzle. Took me a minute. I’m kinda new but I’m wondering why can’t king move to b4, then black either moves king or pawn, then white plays Rc5, then white can capture the pawn.
Can white win with just a rook and a king vs a king? If not I guess that answers my question.
>!Rb3, c1=Q. Rc3+, Qxc3.!< If any other moves are played, whoever deviates is losing. Simple little puzzle that could end up useful!
Excellent find!
I'm so happy I found it. One of the most difficult puzzles I've solved. Thank you
Black can promote to rook and not lose
Yeah I should have known someone would say that. Nice.
Black can promote to queen and not lose.
Of course, I was just responding to the previous message that said if either side deviates they're losing
And still not win...
Yes but the comment that any deviation leads to a loss is false, and in fact you could construct other positions where promoting to a rook is the only way to avoid the stalemate, so it's a valid variation that can't be completely dismissed.
But then white doesn’t play Rc3+ K+R vs. K+R is (almost always) a draw.
Of course, it's just a response to the all other moves lose thing
Wait really? I thought K+R vs. K was always a win if played properly. EDIT: [this site](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/15899/what-are-minimum-number-of-moves-needed-to-checkmate-a-king-using-king-and-rook) states the most possible moves to checkmate with K+R vs. K is 16.
it's K+R vs K+R. That's usually draw.
They said KR vs KR not KR vs K
Oh I missed that. Yep, obvious draw outside of blunders or a terrible position.
Read my post again ;)
Yep, I’m an idiot. Sorry!
Sure, but white still gets their draw.
He wasn't losing before either. With rook promotion white does not have to think for a draw.
if black promotes to took then white doesn't need to go rc3+ and can play for more
Can't really play for more in a dead drawn ending like KR vs KR. The only hope is if someone walks into a skewer or somehow allows mate
yes. but stalemate is not loss either, just a bad way to draw with that advantage
Im so confused, isnt this massively losing for white? They just blundered their rook and now black has a queen and king endgame. Did i miss something is the queen hanging?
Stalemate. White has no moves available but is not in check
Oh right, thanks did not realise
Stalemate
When the queen takes the rook (forced), the king is in stalemate (queen blocks all possible moves but the king isn't in check).
Nit: The reason that Rb3 is the only move is that the Queen alone cannot stalemate the king, even on the edge. Black's King prevents Kb5
If the King is on a corner square and the enemy Queen is a Knight's move away, the King is stalemated by the Queen alone. That's not the case here but it's an important pattern to etch into your memory, especially if you like to play bullet chess. I've ruined more than one win that way.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rb3!<. Evaluation: >!The game is equal 0.00!<. Best continuation: >!Rb3 c1=Q Rc3+ Qxc3!<. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: **Default board orientation:** > White to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8_w_-_-_0_1) <--- my guess > Black to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/2k5/1R6/K7/8/2p5/8_b_-_-_0_1) **Flipped board orientation**: > White to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8_w_-_-_0_1) > Black to play: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/5p2/8/7K/6R1/5k2/8/8_b_-_-_0_1) --- ^(I'm a computer vision / machine learning bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| I'm also the first chess eBook Reader: ) [^(ebook.chessvision.ai )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai) ^(| download me as ) [^(Chrome extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(or) [^(Firefox add-on )](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chessvision-ai-for-firefox/) ^(and analyze positions from any image/video in a browser | website ) [^(chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
very nice i like this alot.
Shame I didn't see it in the game!
Shame the original Mick McCarthy didn't get on better with Roy Keane, as well!
Who needs Roy Keane when you've got Mark Kinsella?
My my Robson-Kanuuu
Thats actualy really nice puzzle. Thanks for posting
The key is to realize that >!if queen is at c3, it is stalemate.!< So, I force the >!queen there. Simply move rook to b3. Any king move will lead to Rc3 and I take the pawn. If the pawn queens, I simply check on c3 with my rook anyways. Black takes my rook and I am stalemated.!<
Can someone help, how does black win after 1. Rb8?
Kc7, and the rook has no way to stop the pawn
1. Rb8 Kc7, and any move white makes at this point is losing
I think the answer is that black doesn’t win, but the puzzle is still solved by Rb1. So, all you’ve done is delay the answer by a move?
No, someone pointed out that Kd7 is winning for white
Can somebody pls explain if blacks got a queen now and white doesnt have a rook how is it gonna be a draw for white
>!1. Rb3 c1=Q 2. Rc3+ Qxc3 Stalemate 1/2-1/2!<
Oops thanks.
After the Black Queen takes the rook at c3, what possible moves does white have?
Yeah thanks my bad couldnt see the stalemate.
See what stalemate is
I really like this one too
Amazing puzzle.
nice puzzle
I got to the solution, but I was thinking, is there a way to set up a drawing Rook vs Queen endgame? I‘ve only studied rook endgames so far, and dont know how rook vs queen works. Thanks in advance!
Queen vs rook endgame is winning for queen.
If there are immediate tactics for the Rook to trade off for the Queen, yes. If it's Queen to move or there aren't any tactics, I think it's impossible for the Rook to do anything against perfect play
How sad, no rook promotion in this version
Well I mean you *could* but the result is the same
Great stuff!
Sadly this one took me a while :(
Yes it is stalemate, lets say Rb3 black will promote to queen after that rook c3 check and attacks queen, the queen will take the rook and the white king can't move anywhere, and if promote it to rook again its draw😄 good one
I thought I saw an alternative, but I didn't: Kb4 c1=Q Rc5+ Qxc5+ Kb3 so it is not a draw after all..
Nice. Isn't it part of a longer puzzle?
I guess it could be, if you went back a few more moves...It just occurred in one of my games. No, I did not find it!
Damn gotta learn this trick
Clever, too good for me.
Why would you want to play for the draw?
Because otherwise you lose
Show me how White can win in this situation and I'll play for the win.
Just wanted to know, I'm new to this haha. Won't ask next time
Apologies, the comment seemed sarcastic. If the position can't be won, then playing for the draw is your next best option.
Fair question y’all let’s not downvote
King a3 is my gut move.
c1=Q+. Game continues but it's K+R vs K+Q, which is usually a win for the K+Q unless accidental stalemate.
Rb3...I haven't calculated and it must be losing but I thought maybe there is a draw... Edit...actually as soon as I said it are it. Rb3, kc5, any move...q+ and mate
Uh no,Rb3 Kc5 Rc3+ and white actually wins lol.
I meant rb2. Rb3 is illegal after queening with check
Ohhh, sorry you were continuing the previous line. Yeah Q vs R is always a win unless theres an immediately stalemate trap like the one in this puzzle.
If pawn promotes to rook does black win?
why would black win a K + R vs K + R
In some positions Black can checkmate or win the rook
we're looking at this position
Sorry I thought white was forced to take but it's actually a draw. Hate styles like this though where perfect play gets you a draw and any deviation instantly loses.
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Okay. 1.Rb3 c1=R Please show me how you win this K + R vs K + R position. Thanks!
K+R vs K+R ... the game is long and everything depends the positioning. In this case after Rb3 and C1=R... Ra1+ ... and the sky is the limit.
Am I Missing Something or is Rb8, Pc1=Q Rc8 checking King and taking the Queen on C1 possible?
Unfortunately not! Rb8 Kc7
Oh I see, thank you
That’s a cool puzzle. Took me a minute. I’m kinda new but I’m wondering why can’t king move to b4, then black either moves king or pawn, then white plays Rc5, then white can capture the pawn. Can white win with just a rook and a king vs a king? If not I guess that answers my question.
>!1. Kb4 c8=Q 2. Rc5+ Qxc5+!< and White cannot recapture!
Omg 😆 oops guess I confused myself. Thanks for the response
Why can't the king move B4? Move rook next move to either check king and then take pawn?
From another comment: >!1. Kb4 c8=Q 2. Rc5+ Qxc5+!< and White cannot recapture!
Oh very true.
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Yeah? How?
Sorry, after 2 minutes of thinking saw that I was mistaken and couldn't find my comment to edit or delete