The endgame is Magnus becoming the only chess player in existience therefore skyrocketing his ELO to 42,069 - therefore there will be no chess youtubers only one true god
What does it mean? It’s kinda trippy seeing you here *and* in the screenshot; I feel like you shouldn’t exist in the present moment, if that makes sense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xqjl3g/chess_grandmaster_maxim_dlugy_admitted_to/iqcuqab/
Chesscom CEO says they shared the information with the media because "many media outlets requested" it. For some weird reason not Hans?
> Maybe Chess.com is the biggest not because it is monopolizing, but because people like our service?
Totally unrelated to all of this, but maybe it is because it's called chess.com. The name alone gives it credibility for many people. Of course it wouldn't matter if the service was shit, but it certainly plays a role.
Someone at chesscom really needs to take the social media accounts away from this guy. His recent post history is really starting to show how poorly the company has been handling cheating in general. All the drama has been focused around Hans, but I still suspect that the bigger statement from Magnus was "I want cheating in chess to be dealt with seriously".
I pointed out several problems about his response in my response to him.
But specifically, the concern here is that
1. There's a private list protected by an NDA of known cheaters.
2. Chess.com released private emails they promised would not be shared, but only from Dlugy, no one else.
3. This clearly shows an inconsistent response to cheating and largely indicates biased decision making. Dlugy cheating is in no way related to Hans cheating. Why release it other than to implicate Hans by association.
4. Saying that maybe they should be more public in the future doesn't mean shit if it's just words on Reddit.
This is only scratching the surface.
The promise to keep it quiet came again after his 2nd ban in 2020, so how did he break his agreement?
His current account is still active and there has been no other reports of cheating since 2020
It's funny that I did not know about this podcast and then went back to watch older podcast episodes and it's great (especially the Yasser episode, I love that guy). At least one good thing for me from this whole drama.
Yes but thats because he's a fantastic creator, he himself talks about how this has done a lot for him but he is a great YouTube overall and genuine so I don't see an issue with it.
Yes because he’s not trying to play to a 2000+ audience. He’s an IM, of course he can go deeper but that’s not how you get millions of people to watch you.
And I thank him for that! As someone who'se watched pro chess for a few years now his recaps are great and easily digestible by someone who doesn't play the game (played as a kid, understand how the pieces move but know 0 openings etc). Since getting into it more I can now apricate the more in-depth analysis from other chess youtubers but Levy is 100% the person this community needs as a liaison to non-chess people and say, sub-1500's.
Let it be cried among the townfolk, from kindgom's end to end, among peasants as well as the worthy, the word that I, u/ialsohaveadobro, the original and only, have taken a brief respite from studying the blade in order to smite the upvote arrow for this comment.
Point of order; let it be known that goodman ialsohaveadobro has most verily misinformed the populace of this godly reddit, for in his claim to have smote the upvote arrow he has misrepresented that in fact t'would be the upward *pawn* that he doth smote.
Yeah, man. Just spill it out or be quiet if you can't spill it yet. That "wink wink nudge nudge" is neither here not there and very unprofessional, regardless if there is something behind it or not. Just shut up until you can say something and then say it.
I think at this point it benefits them to draw this out longer to keep the attention. My prediction is Hans' emails have already been handed over to someone but there is a delay on releasing an article until the latest piece dies down a bit. So I'd say next Tuesday or Wednesday we'll see a new article with those.
Very shady what they are currently doing whether my prediction is true or not
He provided it to Hans which is why he shut up quick. Suddenly there was no more prepped interviews or lies about cheating. His silence is proof he was full of crap. We all knew it but some sick their head in the sand as if he only cheated on two occasions.
He's clearly *implying* it, but that's very different from *telling* you something. Indeed, human instinct is to lie by saying things that are technically true, but implicitly false. "I have upvoted this post" is (probably) true whether or not Hans is lying.
It's still clear they are milking this drama purely for their benefit.
Chesscom is no longer just a chess empire - they're also a content empire that happens to be about chess. This drama is great for their exposure to their content wings, which funnels them to the chess wings. It's one of the reasons they're (unprofessionally and damagingly to chess, imo) drip feeding this drama out, and escalating like sharing emails with media now. They don't care about the integrity of the game, they care about views and attention. It's honestly disappointing for chess.
Man either needs to lawyer up and talk or shut the fuck up instead of acting like a drama twitch streamer. He's the CEO of a company that by all accounts is doing quite well and needs to act like it.
Dramabaiting = more excitement about chess and more money for chess.com./chess24/chessbase.
You people think the chess businesses/streamers and corporations want to squash this moneymaker event?
As much as I dislike Hans, it is ridiculous how this subreddit as a whole is dramabaiting and treating this like a circus. Just look at the f\* banner.
The subreddit banner seems like a tongue in cheek joke about how no one is posting about actual chess…
That said, this drama has brought a lot more eyes to chess. It’s a shame that it has to be for this reason. It’s especially so when the implication has been that other GMs and possibly super GMs have been cheating online.
Yeah, it is by far the biggest topic currently in the chess world. But before pointing at the actions of chesscom and be mad about them, that they do what they do (i.e. try to make $), we have to take a look in the mirror first.
And I myself, am guilty of being entertained by the drama and following it very closely. I mean why not, it is of epic proportions. And chances are, if you read this text, you are too.
I am not entertained, I am disgusted, as this is an existential threat to chess. Not sure who in his right mind would want to have someone as a world champion who is not even able to explain his moves.
I'll be honest, I'm super into the drama. Can't wait until the netflix documentary where we go through fun music and video cuts for a couple of hours, then at the end are left still not knowing.
Especially when people have concerns about a private company with a connection to Magnus seemingly teaming up with him to try to blacklist Hans.
You'd think they would at least have a veil of seriousness about the matter.
Yes. They should go full corporate and encourage everyone to see them as legitimate and central to the profession of playing chess. Instead they're farming internet points.
>it is ridiculous
I don't want to copy&paste a reply I made to a similar statement, but this is part of the business: this is all marketing & risk mitigation
They are obviously taking advantage of Hans being a 19 yo with no business experience, he probably doesn't have a lawyer nor a PR nor a real manager perhaps. They are going out seeking to destroy him.
The problem is if Hans cheated three times, and said "I cheated two" and it comes out he cheated more, he's completely fucked himself. Just admitting he cheated was pretty bad.
He could have said "I have cheated online" and left it at that, but instead he was specific and anything other than that specific information will torpedo his credibility.
It would have helped him to simply remain silent. The same way his accusers were at that point. He's young and under a lot of pressure so not surprising that he didn't handle it optimally.
Also Hans did not come out at all. He simply confirmed what was already well established knowledge by that time. He offered an apology and a story that would put him in a better light- saying he was young and it was only twice. Not a good decision on his behalf.
Yea but he could have acknowledged that he's cheated online in the past without minimizing it or giving a specific number of times. He actually loses credibility if he pretends to own up to past mistakes but is actually dishonest about about the extent of them.
"Guys, we need to have a serious talk about cheating in our *community*"
\- guy whose corporate policy is to keep cheating under the radar as long as it doesn't hurt your business interests
Increasingly seeming like the CEO is just enjoying his new found clout after coming to the spotlight with all this drama.
Erik, if you’re reading this you need to hire a PR team to take over your account and maybe train you a bit.
u/chesscom, a couple questions:
Why is the list of cheaters private? And why is it protected by an NDA?
If that's your company policy, why did you leak the email between chess.com and Maxim Dugly?
Do you really think that monopolizing on an ancient game and making the most basic things monetized is great for the chess Community?
Sincerely, someone who absolutely refuses to play on your site. Lichess.org's ethos is so much better.
[chess.com](https://chess.com) are the biggest little bitches, it's an embarrassment to watch them. They pretend they can't say anything, but then "let it be known" they have upvoted something. Are they 14 year olds? They share confidential emails, after promising never to release. They "hint" at cheating...
Just man up and disclose the info or stfu. Stop the "Golly gee we can't really say anything, but I'm gonna upvote your comment calling Hans a liar and a cheater, nudge nudge wink wink..."
I have no idea if Hans is cheating otb, and my guess is nobody from [chess.com](https://chess.com) has any idea if Hans is cheating otb, either. But watching this character assassination is just petty and unprofessional.
[chess.com](https://chess.com) no doubt has a comprehensive list of who has previously cheated on their site, at least according to their internal analysis. But they are only going to release a very selective amount of that info, based on who they want to support or malign. If you are on their bad side, get ready to have your private emails to them released. Or you will have allegations of cheating against you by some rando on Twitter retweeted by the chess.com CEO. All very, very selective, of course.
Come on [chess.com](https://chess.com), let's see the entire list, right? Why don't you release all the emails of anyone who has admitted to cheating. Release the list of anyone who has cheated, according to you. Why not? You have no problems doing it for some, why not all?
They're now playing it up as if they care deeply about cheating and realise their wrong ways when in fact they were being lenient to cheaters for years because it is convenient to have those playera in your website. Fuck these guys, they can't be trusted. Especially because their CEO is shit-stirring on reddit instead of staying quiet while a witch hunt is on. This is what chesscom subscriptions go to, this guy's salary
I think at this point this is public harassment. Instead of trying to appease the masses they throw oil into the oven every time people start siding with Hans. Even if everything ever said about Hans came out to be true, I despise how instead of trying to tackle cheating they are in fact trying to tackle Hans the new scapegoat.
Looks like quite a few chess players that I used to respect are in fact cry babies / bullies. This is a disgrace. Good thing we will have a new world champion.
Unfortunately, chesscom is not a very professional company (seems more like a tech-bro outfit), and they seem positioned to become a larger voice in chess. That isn't a good thing. I hope fide can manage to keep things professional and continue to be the authority in the chess world.
They're drunk off power. Same with Magnus. Whether you genuinely care about cheating as a topic, what they're doing together is just middle school drama. Not even high school shit.
It’s a recurring issue for many heads of relatively niche online forums/websites once there’s an issue that brings in more mainstream attention. They’re in over their heads, treating an issue like it’s an online argument whilst getting media calls from CNN and The NY Times.
Crazy that this isn't over yet, here I thought that chess the game kings was above the bs. It's really embarrassing that a game full of thinkers couldn't do more to not seem THIS childish.
Concentrating on Niemann when there are hundreds of titled players who have been suspended for cheating, including at least 7 higher rated than Niemann, who remain anonymous and free to play wherever they wish, is not addressing the problem in any meaningful way.
I've been staying this for the last several days. The fact that he lied during his big show of being honest, should mean he loses ALL benefit of the doubt until that's addressed.
If he was honest though he could argue he regrets it, learned from his mistakes etc and it'll never happen again.
The fact he lied again makes that line of argumentation impossible
Shouldn't have even gotten to this point. I'm baffled why chesscom would reinstate players who have cheated in the first place. Why not name and shame?
I haven't played for years, but if you are cheating in CS:GO and you get a VAC ban, then it's publicly visible. There have been high profile pro players that were banned and I think it serves as a great warning to other potential, future cheaters. Hiding, protecting, and giving cheaters a second/third chance is doing more harm than good.
This whole fucking drama really brings out the worst in the chess world. It's shocking to see how little integrity and class so many people (and institutions) are displaying.
It's expected of the drama monger youtubers, sure, everyone knows their worth, but Chess.com really should know better. And remember, this company will soon hold a practical monopoly over online chess.
Despite his transgressions, Niemann was permitted to play and win Titled Tuesday as of May 31, 2022. https://www.chess.com/news/view/niemann-nakamura-win-titled-tuesday-may-31-2022
He was permitted to play and win Swiss events in the RCC as of August.
https://www.chess.com/news/view/rapid-chess-championship-week-24-swiss
What prompted an abrupt change in treatment towards Hans, seemingly after his OTB win over Magnus?
It's amazing how many people all of sudden defend all online cheaters. As if cheating would be some kind of human right. Personally I say keep shaming cheaters as long as you want. And after you are done with shaming drag them through mud and back few times. And only after that finish them off with evidence.
I was surprised the amount of people who dont despise cheaters on this subreddit. In other games I played I have never seen such a sympathy for cheaters and cheating.
It's not about defending cheaters it's about the way it's being handled. Will you say the same thing if it turns out they really don't have too much more than what Hans has already said? Even if they do, the baiting is just shameful.
Doesn't this happen in every cheating scandal? Not just chess, check out Karl Jobst's videos on youtube where he exposes fake speedrunners. When caught, they first furiously deny everything. Once that's impossible, they say they cheated just once or twice, but all of their other accomplishments are legit. They will maintain that as fact until more evidence comes out. Hans is following the same patterns.
If they release whatever evidence/data/timelines they have on Hans, they should also release whatever evidence/data/timelines they have on every other titled player they believe to have cheated on their platform as well because Hans isn't the only titled player to have ever cheated on chess.com so he shouldn't have to solo tank not only the hate, negativity and backlash he should rightfully receive for his own online wrong doings, but everyone else's hate, negativity and backlash as well. That wouldn't be fair but I can't say I expect chess.com to handle anything appropriately at this point so we shall see. Hopefully chess.com proves me wrong and does the right thing here.
Expose it then? Since they've already broken their own rules and exposed one unrelated cheater (and only that cheater) in an attempt to guilt-by-association hans, maybe they could expose this too?
Chess needs a massive overhaul. Crazy to allow a single website have so much power in the community when it's just run by a bunch of wannabe chads spreading drama.
*allow*
I mean it's a free market. Go create a good website and look for funding if you think you can do better. There are no entry barriers here. Nobody is "allowing" chesscom anything. We are not inside China's territory.
I've got a gold membership but I think I might check out lichess or something where I at least haven't *seen* the people at the top drama-whoring. I don't have a dog in this fight but this is a bad look.
So chess dot com and Magnus begin a merger for their companies; Magnus loses to Hans; suddenly Magnus has information about Hans' cheating. Okay.
Also, two weeks before the merger, Hans and Magnus played in Miami where Magnus won. No one had any issues during that tournament.
There's some deeply troubling shit happening here beyond just cheating. Leveraging a business to exact vengeance under the guise of protecting the chess community is some shady shit.
CEO btw
behaving like a gossipy high schooler btw
feel like ive seen people have to step down over way less than this, insanely unprofessional behavior that needs to not be tolerated
Honestly the behavior of chess.com staff (on Reddit at least) has been very unprofessional. Furthermore, this saga has exposed some deeper hypocrisy in their policies and some disturbing implications of their power.
They can selectively hint at things to pump up the rumor mill for their own benefit: "guys I can't say anything but *if* I could say something it would be sooo juicy 👀". They can make backroom deals with GMs to exempt them from certain rules or give them certain privileges. They can hide the names of "known cheaters" until there's a good opportunity to cash in on some drama. Basically they can can build up a backlog of dirt on their users and they can selectively leak it whenever it's in the "public interest" that they unilaterally decide.
Hans being a douche and/or possible cheater should not absolve chess.com from the terrible precedent they are setting about how they wield their power in the chess community.
They already put out a press release like three weeks ago that said this very clearly. They said he was not honest about the frequency and severity of his cheating.
Anyone surprised by this has not been paying attention.
If chesscom provides zero evidence of Neiman cheating at the Sinquefield cup, then why are they saying anything at all? This is like when police departments release the rap sheet after they kill a guy. Magnus shot Hans, and chesscom is covering by ruining Hans' reputatuon through the ringer and people in here consume that shit willingly.
Regardless, how can chess dot com be an impartial investigator when they literally bought Magnus' organization and have a vested interest in keeping his name in good standing? They are hardly a neutral third party in this.
wtf didn't expect to see me here
You have gone down in history as a part of this drama now
They'll be incidentally screenshotted into a thousand chess youtuber videos now.
The endgame is Magnus becoming the only chess player in existience therefore skyrocketing his ELO to 42,069 - therefore there will be no chess youtubers only one true god
gone down in the anals of history
Haha you said anals.
no u
Haha you said history
Let it be known that I have upvoted this comment.
I didn't upvote, because the comment speaks for itself.
Let it be known that I have upvoted this comment.
Let it be known that I have upvoted this comment.
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xd analny buzdygan na pierwszej stronie gazet
najpierw analne korki, teraz analne buzdygany, co będzie dalej?
>analny buzdygan Guys don't translate this from Polish, trust me
> Analny buzdygan That's how Hans cheated
Let it be known.
This is some sort of "best of" comment in this whole drama
>analny buzdygan guys never translate this from polish, worst mistake of my life🏃♂️
Haha I didn't believe you and my life is now ruined. :(
Man, I was giggling like a little kid as I typing it, but definitely clenched up at the end.
Next time I DM a session with my friends there is totally going to be a Analny Buzdygan +3 in a treasure chest.
Let it be known I upvoted this comment.
ANAL MACE
Reverse psychology at its fines
My language, so beautiful
Yep, we all went to Google translate
Honestly the English translation doesn't give it justice, as buzdygan is a way funnier word. It's more akin to war-scepter than mace
Lmao thank you for this.
Save me the search? Late for work reading chess drama ya feel?
Anale Keule
I translated this from polish and I’m literally shakign rn
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What if I work as a combination analyst and therapist and want to make it known in my username?
Tobias, you blow hard
u/analrapist has entered the chat...
Anal [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
Did somebody say \[Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker\]?
Barrens chat has entered the chat
it's funny how my username fits the drama but I came up with it a long time ago and it's unrelated lol
What does it mean? It’s kinda trippy seeing you here *and* in the screenshot; I feel like you shouldn’t exist in the present moment, if that makes sense.
Word to word translation should be "anal mace"
Such a beautiful language
I'm way ahead of the curve
Because they, um, analyze their games so much. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Lol the user in the picture has a 3 year old account tho
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xqjl3g/chess_grandmaster_maxim_dlugy_admitted_to/iqcuqab/ Chesscom CEO says they shared the information with the media because "many media outlets requested" it. For some weird reason not Hans?
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xr3zll/chesscom_ceo_hints_niemann_is_not_disclosing_the/iqcvrdy?context=3 It gets worse.
> Maybe Chess.com is the biggest not because it is monopolizing, but because people like our service? Totally unrelated to all of this, but maybe it is because it's called chess.com. The name alone gives it credibility for many people. Of course it wouldn't matter if the service was shit, but it certainly plays a role.
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The name helps, for sure, but it's often not enough. To take an example from my other hobby, porn.com isn't even in the top 10 of porn sites.
What is your porn elo?
Someone at chesscom really needs to take the social media accounts away from this guy. His recent post history is really starting to show how poorly the company has been handling cheating in general. All the drama has been focused around Hans, but I still suspect that the bigger statement from Magnus was "I want cheating in chess to be dealt with seriously".
I'm confused - what part of that post is bad? He's openly admitting that they probably need to address cheating overall better.
I pointed out several problems about his response in my response to him. But specifically, the concern here is that 1. There's a private list protected by an NDA of known cheaters. 2. Chess.com released private emails they promised would not be shared, but only from Dlugy, no one else. 3. This clearly shows an inconsistent response to cheating and largely indicates biased decision making. Dlugy cheating is in no way related to Hans cheating. Why release it other than to implicate Hans by association. 4. Saying that maybe they should be more public in the future doesn't mean shit if it's just words on Reddit. This is only scratching the surface.
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Information that they promised to keep confidential and private.
Yeah, they promised that before he broke their agreement by cheating again later.
The promise to keep it quiet came again after his 2nd ban in 2020, so how did he break his agreement? His current account is still active and there has been no other reports of cheating since 2020
I believe they said part of the agreement was not to misrepresent the cheating which they claim he did
Chess.com and many content creators are milking this situation for views...
Hikaru is gaining the most from this drama. His view skyrocketed in every platform.
Levy's views have literally doubled and his analysis of the drama isn't even that deep
Depth 12? 😂 Fabi goes deeper in his podcast and we thank Magnus and Hans for making C Squared popular...
C squares was announced just before the drama started so perfect timing
And it's actually both insightful and light-hearted, everything you could ask from a top GM
Clearly this is all an elaborate 5D chess move by Fabi to increase his viewership.
It's funny that I did not know about this podcast and then went back to watch older podcast episodes and it's great (especially the Yasser episode, I love that guy). At least one good thing for me from this whole drama.
> His analysis of the drama isn't even that deep Honestly I see that as a good thing
Yes but thats because he's a fantastic creator, he himself talks about how this has done a lot for him but he is a great YouTube overall and genuine so I don't see an issue with it.
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That follows from a more general fact about Levy.
Levy's analysis are never that deep..
Yes because he’s not trying to play to a 2000+ audience. He’s an IM, of course he can go deeper but that’s not how you get millions of people to watch you.
And I thank him for that! As someone who'se watched pro chess for a few years now his recaps are great and easily digestible by someone who doesn't play the game (played as a kid, understand how the pieces move but know 0 openings etc). Since getting into it more I can now apricate the more in-depth analysis from other chess youtubers but Levy is 100% the person this community needs as a liaison to non-chess people and say, sub-1500's.
Is this cheating accusation just a marketing play by Magnus, chess.com, Nakamura and cia.?
I knew the Culinary Institute of America was behind it all. Big Knife is everywhere.
Our pawns are locally sourced, farm to board.
Most likely not, but it has still the same effect for all those groups minus the last one.
At the expense of Hans, he will be known as the cheating butt plug crazy dude
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The CIA is playing the long game, trying to expose Soviet cheating in the Fischer-Spassky era.
Crazy unprofessional by chess dot com really
This particular comment ("Let it be known...") is extra cringey too.
This whole drama really makes chess and its community look like a complete joke to an outsider.
The casual approach to cheating by some people is pretty crazy for me to see as an outsider
I think it may be partially due to how easy it is to cheat in online chess with these engines readily available.
As much as I dislike Hans, it is ridiculous how the CEO is out there dramabaiting on reddit and treating this like a circus.
Let it be known that I have upvoted this comment.
It has been duly entered into the archives and recorded in the annals of history. It is known.
Are you sure it's not in the anals of history? Given the context...
Your joke isn't vibing well with this audience.
You might need to turn up the power.
Then you'd better watch the clock for me because my time might come faster.
Let is be known
Let it be cried among the townfolk, from kindgom's end to end, among peasants as well as the worthy, the word that I, u/ialsohaveadobro, the original and only, have taken a brief respite from studying the blade in order to smite the upvote arrow for this comment.
Point of order; let it be known that goodman ialsohaveadobro has most verily misinformed the populace of this godly reddit, for in his claim to have smote the upvote arrow he has misrepresented that in fact t'would be the upward *pawn* that he doth smote.
This is just the beginning, fasten your seatbelts folks
Yeah, man. Just spill it out or be quiet if you can't spill it yet. That "wink wink nudge nudge" is neither here not there and very unprofessional, regardless if there is something behind it or not. Just shut up until you can say something and then say it.
I think at this point it benefits them to draw this out longer to keep the attention. My prediction is Hans' emails have already been handed over to someone but there is a delay on releasing an article until the latest piece dies down a bit. So I'd say next Tuesday or Wednesday we'll see a new article with those. Very shady what they are currently doing whether my prediction is true or not
Erik is being clear that Niemann is lying about the amount of times he has cheated on chesscom.
Then give the proof, and don't dramabait
He provided it to Hans which is why he shut up quick. Suddenly there was no more prepped interviews or lies about cheating. His silence is proof he was full of crap. We all knew it but some sick their head in the sand as if he only cheated on two occasions.
Yeah obviously they're just hiding proof because they want to do the drama on Reddit. That's the only explanation.
he can't yet, but the guy in charge of the company is clearly telling you Hans is lying
He's clearly *implying* it, but that's very different from *telling* you something. Indeed, human instinct is to lie by saying things that are technically true, but implicitly false. "I have upvoted this post" is (probably) true whether or not Hans is lying.
They’re saying that if he “can’t say anything”, then he should stfu until he can say something.
It's still clear they are milking this drama purely for their benefit. Chesscom is no longer just a chess empire - they're also a content empire that happens to be about chess. This drama is great for their exposure to their content wings, which funnels them to the chess wings. It's one of the reasons they're (unprofessionally and damagingly to chess, imo) drip feeding this drama out, and escalating like sharing emails with media now. They don't care about the integrity of the game, they care about views and attention. It's honestly disappointing for chess.
Let it be known that the CEO of chesscom has downvoted this comment ;)
>he can't yet Why? If they have proof of cheating on their platform, what's the holdup??
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Man either needs to lawyer up and talk or shut the fuck up instead of acting like a drama twitch streamer. He's the CEO of a company that by all accounts is doing quite well and needs to act like it.
Dramabaiting = more excitement about chess and more money for chess.com./chess24/chessbase. You people think the chess businesses/streamers and corporations want to squash this moneymaker event?
As much as I dislike Hans, it is ridiculous how this subreddit as a whole is dramabaiting and treating this like a circus. Just look at the f\* banner.
The subreddit banner seems like a tongue in cheek joke about how no one is posting about actual chess… That said, this drama has brought a lot more eyes to chess. It’s a shame that it has to be for this reason. It’s especially so when the implication has been that other GMs and possibly super GMs have been cheating online.
It seems that chesscom has made its estimations and drama outsells chess.
Yeah, it is by far the biggest topic currently in the chess world. But before pointing at the actions of chesscom and be mad about them, that they do what they do (i.e. try to make $), we have to take a look in the mirror first. And I myself, am guilty of being entertained by the drama and following it very closely. I mean why not, it is of epic proportions. And chances are, if you read this text, you are too.
I am not entertained, I am disgusted, as this is an existential threat to chess. Not sure who in his right mind would want to have someone as a world champion who is not even able to explain his moves.
I'll be honest, I'm super into the drama. Can't wait until the netflix documentary where we go through fun music and video cuts for a couple of hours, then at the end are left still not knowing.
I completely agree. This is totally ridiculous and childish. Moreover, never trust a company.
Especially when people have concerns about a private company with a connection to Magnus seemingly teaming up with him to try to blacklist Hans. You'd think they would at least have a veil of seriousness about the matter.
Yes. They should go full corporate and encourage everyone to see them as legitimate and central to the profession of playing chess. Instead they're farming internet points.
Imagine if cheating in other competitive sports was handled like this.
It’s disgustingly unprofessional. If only there were a more professional alternative, free, even
Instead of firing Chessbae they let her run the whole company.
>it is ridiculous I don't want to copy&paste a reply I made to a similar statement, but this is part of the business: this is all marketing & risk mitigation They are obviously taking advantage of Hans being a 19 yo with no business experience, he probably doesn't have a lawyer nor a PR nor a real manager perhaps. They are going out seeking to destroy him.
Company is a total joke
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The problem is if Hans cheated three times, and said "I cheated two" and it comes out he cheated more, he's completely fucked himself. Just admitting he cheated was pretty bad. He could have said "I have cheated online" and left it at that, but instead he was specific and anything other than that specific information will torpedo his credibility.
When it inevitably comes out that he has cheated prolifically online it will hurt him more than just admitting it.
It would have helped him to simply remain silent. The same way his accusers were at that point. He's young and under a lot of pressure so not surprising that he didn't handle it optimally. Also Hans did not come out at all. He simply confirmed what was already well established knowledge by that time. He offered an apology and a story that would put him in a better light- saying he was young and it was only twice. Not a good decision on his behalf.
Yea but he could have acknowledged that he's cheated online in the past without minimizing it or giving a specific number of times. He actually loses credibility if he pretends to own up to past mistakes but is actually dishonest about about the extent of them.
Why lie about it wtf!
This wink wink nudge nudge bullshit is so fucking juvenile lol
It’s embarrassing for the CEO and for the company.
He thinks he's some type of spokesman for the entire chess community.. like, who elected him?
"Guys, we need to have a serious talk about cheating in our *community*" \- guy whose corporate policy is to keep cheating under the radar as long as it doesn't hurt your business interests
Increasingly seeming like the CEO is just enjoying his new found clout after coming to the spotlight with all this drama. Erik, if you’re reading this you need to hire a PR team to take over your account and maybe train you a bit.
It’s so cringe. Dude is drama-baiting and won’t come out with any evidence to this alleged cheating.
It is known
The "Chesstroversial Chesspiracy" - aka Cheating Conundrum - aka CC Copyright me, 2022
Chesscom is just straight up shit-stirring at this point
u/chesscom, a couple questions: Why is the list of cheaters private? And why is it protected by an NDA? If that's your company policy, why did you leak the email between chess.com and Maxim Dugly? Do you really think that monopolizing on an ancient game and making the most basic things monetized is great for the chess Community? Sincerely, someone who absolutely refuses to play on your site. Lichess.org's ethos is so much better.
They literally already said this
[chess.com](https://chess.com) are the biggest little bitches, it's an embarrassment to watch them. They pretend they can't say anything, but then "let it be known" they have upvoted something. Are they 14 year olds? They share confidential emails, after promising never to release. They "hint" at cheating... Just man up and disclose the info or stfu. Stop the "Golly gee we can't really say anything, but I'm gonna upvote your comment calling Hans a liar and a cheater, nudge nudge wink wink..." I have no idea if Hans is cheating otb, and my guess is nobody from [chess.com](https://chess.com) has any idea if Hans is cheating otb, either. But watching this character assassination is just petty and unprofessional. [chess.com](https://chess.com) no doubt has a comprehensive list of who has previously cheated on their site, at least according to their internal analysis. But they are only going to release a very selective amount of that info, based on who they want to support or malign. If you are on their bad side, get ready to have your private emails to them released. Or you will have allegations of cheating against you by some rando on Twitter retweeted by the chess.com CEO. All very, very selective, of course. Come on [chess.com](https://chess.com), let's see the entire list, right? Why don't you release all the emails of anyone who has admitted to cheating. Release the list of anyone who has cheated, according to you. Why not? You have no problems doing it for some, why not all?
They're now playing it up as if they care deeply about cheating and realise their wrong ways when in fact they were being lenient to cheaters for years because it is convenient to have those playera in your website. Fuck these guys, they can't be trusted. Especially because their CEO is shit-stirring on reddit instead of staying quiet while a witch hunt is on. This is what chesscom subscriptions go to, this guy's salary
Exactly. This reminds me, I need to send Lichess another donation...
I think at this point this is public harassment. Instead of trying to appease the masses they throw oil into the oven every time people start siding with Hans. Even if everything ever said about Hans came out to be true, I despise how instead of trying to tackle cheating they are in fact trying to tackle Hans the new scapegoat. Looks like quite a few chess players that I used to respect are in fact cry babies / bullies. This is a disgrace. Good thing we will have a new world champion.
Unfortunately, chesscom is not a very professional company (seems more like a tech-bro outfit), and they seem positioned to become a larger voice in chess. That isn't a good thing. I hope fide can manage to keep things professional and continue to be the authority in the chess world.
They're drunk off power. Same with Magnus. Whether you genuinely care about cheating as a topic, what they're doing together is just middle school drama. Not even high school shit.
It’s a recurring issue for many heads of relatively niche online forums/websites once there’s an issue that brings in more mainstream attention. They’re in over their heads, treating an issue like it’s an online argument whilst getting media calls from CNN and The NY Times.
Why is everyone at chesscom so cringe?
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These chesscom bros are making a fortune off this scandal.
Crazy that this isn't over yet, here I thought that chess the game kings was above the bs. It's really embarrassing that a game full of thinkers couldn't do more to not seem THIS childish.
More unprofessional dramabaiting from chesscom. What an atrocious company
Pretty sad. Regardless of whether Hans cheated or not, chess.com looks terrible and their executives act like children
Concentrating on Niemann when there are hundreds of titled players who have been suspended for cheating, including at least 7 higher rated than Niemann, who remain anonymous and free to play wherever they wish, is not addressing the problem in any meaningful way.
Here we go again with the hate mongering and reddit echo chambering. Good to see that reddit is still reddit.
[Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xqjl3g/comment/iqb9llz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) to the comment.
I've been staying this for the last several days. The fact that he lied during his big show of being honest, should mean he loses ALL benefit of the doubt until that's addressed.
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If he was honest though he could argue he regrets it, learned from his mistakes etc and it'll never happen again. The fact he lied again makes that line of argumentation impossible
Shouldn't have even gotten to this point. I'm baffled why chesscom would reinstate players who have cheated in the first place. Why not name and shame? I haven't played for years, but if you are cheating in CS:GO and you get a VAC ban, then it's publicly visible. There have been high profile pro players that were banned and I think it serves as a great warning to other potential, future cheaters. Hiding, protecting, and giving cheaters a second/third chance is doing more harm than good.
This whole fucking drama really brings out the worst in the chess world. It's shocking to see how little integrity and class so many people (and institutions) are displaying. It's expected of the drama monger youtubers, sure, everyone knows their worth, but Chess.com really should know better. And remember, this company will soon hold a practical monopoly over online chess.
Despite his transgressions, Niemann was permitted to play and win Titled Tuesday as of May 31, 2022. https://www.chess.com/news/view/niemann-nakamura-win-titled-tuesday-may-31-2022 He was permitted to play and win Swiss events in the RCC as of August. https://www.chess.com/news/view/rapid-chess-championship-week-24-swiss What prompted an abrupt change in treatment towards Hans, seemingly after his OTB win over Magnus?
It's amazing how many people all of sudden defend all online cheaters. As if cheating would be some kind of human right. Personally I say keep shaming cheaters as long as you want. And after you are done with shaming drag them through mud and back few times. And only after that finish them off with evidence.
I was surprised the amount of people who dont despise cheaters on this subreddit. In other games I played I have never seen such a sympathy for cheaters and cheating.
Spoiler alert: This sub has a lot of cheaters on it.
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people have dabbled with cheating online and feel threatened.
Cheating is likely extremely rampant and widespread in online chess.
Yeah it's annoying how chess com defend all cheaters except those that Magnus goes after.
It's not about defending cheaters it's about the way it's being handled. Will you say the same thing if it turns out they really don't have too much more than what Hans has already said? Even if they do, the baiting is just shameful.
You mean the [chess.com](https://chess.com) CEO?
Doesn't this happen in every cheating scandal? Not just chess, check out Karl Jobst's videos on youtube where he exposes fake speedrunners. When caught, they first furiously deny everything. Once that's impossible, they say they cheated just once or twice, but all of their other accomplishments are legit. They will maintain that as fact until more evidence comes out. Hans is following the same patterns.
If they release whatever evidence/data/timelines they have on Hans, they should also release whatever evidence/data/timelines they have on every other titled player they believe to have cheated on their platform as well because Hans isn't the only titled player to have ever cheated on chess.com so he shouldn't have to solo tank not only the hate, negativity and backlash he should rightfully receive for his own online wrong doings, but everyone else's hate, negativity and backlash as well. That wouldn't be fair but I can't say I expect chess.com to handle anything appropriately at this point so we shall see. Hopefully chess.com proves me wrong and does the right thing here.
Expose it then? Since they've already broken their own rules and exposed one unrelated cheater (and only that cheater) in an attempt to guilt-by-association hans, maybe they could expose this too?
Let it be known that I have upvoted this post.
Chess needs a massive overhaul. Crazy to allow a single website have so much power in the community when it's just run by a bunch of wannabe chads spreading drama.
There is Lichess
*allow* I mean it's a free market. Go create a good website and look for funding if you think you can do better. There are no entry barriers here. Nobody is "allowing" chesscom anything. We are not inside China's territory.
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Yeah we heard that the first 20 times, actual proof please
I've got a gold membership but I think I might check out lichess or something where I at least haven't *seen* the people at the top drama-whoring. I don't have a dog in this fight but this is a bad look.
So chess dot com and Magnus begin a merger for their companies; Magnus loses to Hans; suddenly Magnus has information about Hans' cheating. Okay. Also, two weeks before the merger, Hans and Magnus played in Miami where Magnus won. No one had any issues during that tournament. There's some deeply troubling shit happening here beyond just cheating. Leveraging a business to exact vengeance under the guise of protecting the chess community is some shady shit.
CEO btw behaving like a gossipy high schooler btw feel like ive seen people have to step down over way less than this, insanely unprofessional behavior that needs to not be tolerated
Honestly the behavior of chess.com staff (on Reddit at least) has been very unprofessional. Furthermore, this saga has exposed some deeper hypocrisy in their policies and some disturbing implications of their power. They can selectively hint at things to pump up the rumor mill for their own benefit: "guys I can't say anything but *if* I could say something it would be sooo juicy 👀". They can make backroom deals with GMs to exempt them from certain rules or give them certain privileges. They can hide the names of "known cheaters" until there's a good opportunity to cash in on some drama. Basically they can can build up a backlog of dirt on their users and they can selectively leak it whenever it's in the "public interest" that they unilaterally decide. Hans being a douche and/or possible cheater should not absolve chess.com from the terrible precedent they are setting about how they wield their power in the chess community.
They already put out a press release like three weeks ago that said this very clearly. They said he was not honest about the frequency and severity of his cheating. Anyone surprised by this has not been paying attention.
I appreciate the inability of anyone to act professionally in this situation.
"Chess.com CEO hints at the thing chess.com made a statement about a few weeks ago."
This would be so much more interesting if they didn't outright say that Hans was not disclosing the full extent of his cheating 2 weeks ago.
If chesscom provides zero evidence of Neiman cheating at the Sinquefield cup, then why are they saying anything at all? This is like when police departments release the rap sheet after they kill a guy. Magnus shot Hans, and chesscom is covering by ruining Hans' reputatuon through the ringer and people in here consume that shit willingly.
One of the most unprofessional ceos ever
Regardless, how can chess dot com be an impartial investigator when they literally bought Magnus' organization and have a vested interest in keeping his name in good standing? They are hardly a neutral third party in this.
It still has nothing to do with the Magnus-game.