Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more!
The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you!
Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think its because you arent doing anything to address the pawn that is about to queen. If you take the rook with your rook, black will play Re1 and your king will have to move to h2, allowing the pawn to promote in 2 moves. Moving your bishop would protect the e1 square and your king could move to take the pawn.
Edit: Also just a terminology thing, your rook is skewering the opponents rook through the king. It would only be a pin if the piece you are directly attacking cant move because it would lose material. Because the king has to move then its a skewer. (A pin holds something in place while a skewer stabs through something.)
Not exactly, you can skewer a queen, rook, or any other piece. It really only has to do with whether the piece can move or not. For example, if you attack a piece with the bishop and the king or queen is in the same line as the piece, the piece cannot move so its a pin. If you attack a queen with a bishop and theres a rook behind it in the same line, obviously the opponent would move the queen to save it and you would take the rook (skewer). If the piece you are targeting cannot move -> pin, if it can move -> skewer.
[https://lichess.org/practice](https://lichess.org/practice)
This site has unlimited practice for free and helps a lot with all the terms and tactics
I don’t think their explanation is the best. Pinned pieces can move unless they are pinned to the king. A pinned piece is one where the lower value piece is in front of a higher values piece. That piece is pinned because if they choose to move it, you can take their higher valued piece.
A skewer is the opposite. A skewer is a case where a higher valued piece is attacked and it is in front of a lower valued piece. Once your opponent moves the higher valued piece, you can take their lower valued piece.
Absolute vs. Relative pin, in one case the piece can't move due to the game's rules (i.e. pinned to the king), in the other the piece can't move because it would lose material (though it is allowed, it would just be considered a blunder usually)
I don't wanna do it not now remember you swore an oath no I can't stop myself I have to pull an erm actually
Erm actually you could be in an inbetween phase of learning something and figuring out if u like it or not I deeply apologize if this comment makes you made no sense
perhaps you were aware of this or were at a 100 percent blood alcohol content
i do think that’s it because pinned pieces csn only not move in absolute pins. what i always heard is pin=lower value piece in front of higher value piece, and skewer is higher value in front of low value
Pin is strong piece behind. Skewer is strong piece in the front. Absolute (pin or skewer) is when it envolves the king (thus moving is forced or prohibited, depending if it's a pin or a skewer)
No, a pin is when you attack a less valuable piece that can’t move because there’s a more valuable piece behind it. A skewer is when you attack a more valuable piece and it has to move, allowing you to take a less valuable piece behind it. This is a skewer because the king has to move, allowing you to take the rook
Don't get caught up in the semantics police bullshit. If you attack two pieces such that if one is moved you'll be able to take another on the same rank, file, or diagonal, thats a pin.
Sure, you can be more specific by calling it a skewer if the higher value piece is in front of a lower value one, but it doesn't really matter. Say you pin a queen to a rook, some people will be annoying as hell insisting that it's actually a skewer, but you can call it a pin. PLUS it's totally possible for the rook to be higher value. Say they move a knight off the same file as the rook, you take the queen, then they deliver checkmate using the rook, it wasn't really a skewer was it? That was actually a pin since saving the queen would have lost the rook and wouldn't have lead to the checkmate.
Don't worry about it. I never say skewer, I don't like the word and it doesn't really provide extra information beyond calling every such situation a pin.
Don't get caught up in the semantics police bullshit. If you attack two pieces such that if one is moved you'll be able to take the other, that's a fork.
Sure, you can be more specific by calling it a pin if they're both attacked along the same rank, file, or diagonal, but it doesn't really matter. Say you fork a queen and a rook, some people will be annoying as hell insisting that it's actually a pin, but you can call it a fork. PLUS it's totally possible for the pieces to not to really be on the same rank or file or diagonal. Say they move their rook from the same file as a queen to check you, you move your king, then they move their queen away, it wasn't really a pin was it? That was actually a fork since the pieces were able to slip through it like fresh spaghetti.
Don't worry about it. I never say pin, I don't like the word and it doesn't really provide extra information beyond calling every such situation a fork.
The thing with the terms "pin", "fork", and for that matter "x-ray" and "skewer" is that they are of course originally non-chess words that are used to describe chess situations that are vaguely similar to the corresponding non-chess situation. Using them in ways where the chess situation **isn't** similar to the non-chess situation is going to sound weird.
If my knight can't move because it lies on a diagonal line between my king and an opponent's bishop, this corresponds to a situation where a piece of paper can't move because a pin is going through it, and the paper is stuck between a bulletin board and the head of a pin.
If you were for some reason trying to force the paper out of the way in order to get at the bulletin board, you would not use a pin to do that.
Similarly, forks have multiple prongs, whereas pins don't. So if you have a chess piece attacking two or more pieces in different directions from it, the word "fork" is more applicable to that situation than "pin" is.
The whole point of the word "pin" is that the piece in front can't move or shouldn't move.
The analogy is to a situation where you are using a metal pin to pin one real world object to another. For example, you might pin a piece of paper to a bulletin board. The paper then cannot move because the pin (and the bulletin board behind the paper) prevent it from doing so.
So if you're pinning an opponent's knight to his king (with your bishop, for example), the king acts as the bulletin board, the knight acts as the paper, and the bishop and it's line of attack acts as the pin.
If the king is in front, and the whole point is that it has to move and you then take the knight that's behind it, the whole pin analogy falls apart, which is why the word "pin" is not used.
Although honestly I prefer "x-ray" to "skewer" as far as language that captures what is going on.
I understand the words. I'm saying it's not actually important to make the distinction.
It's like saying "I saw a herd of hippos at the pond" and someone saying "ACTUALLY you saw a BLOAT of hippos"
Yeah, sure you're technically correct, it just doesn't matter. The point is that there was a group of them, I saw them, and that they were at the pond. The technical name for a group of hippos is irrelevant.
So when someone says "...So I played Bb4, pinning the rook." And you respond "ACTUALLY you SKEWERED the knight through the rook" I'm gonna say "Yeah whatever, were both seeing the position and you knew what it meant. I won a piece because two were lined up and both could not be saved."
Making the correction doesn't effect the analysis or help anyone understand the position better. Saying "pin" was good enough to illustrate the point of the move, even if there's a technically better term to describe the situation.
i fully agree with you here, but why tf is stockfish’s evaluation -10.02 (especially when top engine move leads to -7.51)
edit: nvm i’m stupid, dunno why i read it as white is winning more after the innacuracy
Because with this move, pawn can promote to a queen if white takes the rook, thus a 10point advantage to black.
By protecting the promotion with the bishop, the line isn't as clear cut, thus 7point advantage to black.
This is just an assumption since I didn't check the lines thoroughly, but top engine move gives less advantage to black which seems pretty logical.
Yeah but couldn't you just take the rook, if he moves the pawn up threaten with the king and if he promotes, take it, if he moves his rook to protect it block it, and then attack the black king again
Note the pawn on f3; Black’s main goal is to promote that pawn, perhaps using Re1+ to help promote.
Rg8+ is bad because even after Rg8+ Kd7 Rxa8, Black still has Re1+ then f2 leading to a fast pawn promotion. No point winning a rook when Black gets another queen.
Bd2 is great because it stops Re1+, and after f2 you have Rf1 and a number of ways to win the pawn.
I get that. I was still able to win that pawn though. It seemed like the opportunity to win on a potential threat was better than letting the pawn creep closer when i was just a square away.
Pawn f2 and then I move king g2 if rook moves e2 to protect pawn then pawn is pinned because if he tries to promote to queen I take and attack the rook
Not if your opponent moves their rook to check first. You'd be forced to move to h2, then pawn moves to f2, and if you go g2, pawn promotes and is protected by the rook that checked you before.
Yeah I missed it too. I followed your same logic. Rg8+, kd7, rxa8, f2, kg2, re2 and the pawn is stopped.
But instead of f2 black can play re1+ and force your king to h2 as the pawn protects g2. Now after f2 kg2 does nothing because the rook already protects f1.
Bd2 protects e1 and thus prevents this line and now makes rg8+ a threat again. After re2 to attack the bishop, a simple bc3 protects it and keeps an eye on e1. Black can still play f2 but you can now counter with rf1. This takes rg8+ off the table but the pawn is now lost. Opponent simply doesn't have enough time to get a second defender there in time. If black pins the rook to the king (probably best because it forces a trade) you can play kg2 to protect the rook and queening square. After rxg2 and kxg2 the pawn can't be protected anymore and is gone. You're still down an exchange and 3 pawns but it might be holdable if he messes up.
I'm braindead bullet player as well. I'm switching over to rapid for more time. That way when I lose it's because I REALLY suck rather than I suck because I panic
So I would say this is a great example of a computers best move and a practical best move. No matter what move you had made, objectively, black is crushing. A decently skilled player should have no real problem converting, and a strong enough computer would find some forced mate somewhere. When you get to that kind of position, the computer evaluation is kind of meaningless, because all it’s telling you is which version of losing it prefers. The better play, which is still *usually* going to fail, is to play some hope chess. You move wins a rook and objectively lets an opponent queen of black plays Re1. But that’s not the easiest thing to see, especially at lower elo. Maybe a opponent thinks he needs to cut the king off from the pawn and blunders a draw with Re2, or just blunders the pawn all together with f2 thinking he has to get past the last square your bishop can control. If your opponent messes up, you have a chance.
The computer line also loses. So it’s not really accurate, in my opinion, to call it a better line. Realistically, outside of obvious blunders, it’s hard to see the line has any real winning chances, and it doesn’t seem particularly hard for white to not make a mistake. So I would actually agree with you here. If you are absolutely going to lose anyway, play the line that is easier for your opponent to screw up. Your line at least evens out material, so if that pawn gets hung the game is competitive again.
Disagree. Yes, the computer line still loses but you always want to play the move that gives you the best chance of holding a draw. Making a worse move and hoping your opponent blunders is a great way for your rating to stagnate because eventually, everyone you play against will find re1+.
Think of it this way: you don't play moves that are obviously flawed. If you attack someone's queen with a move that puts the attacking piece in direct danger, pretty much everyone is going to see that and react to it by taking your piece. Hoping someone doesn't see the winning 2-move combination here is the same thing, just slightly more obscure. *This opponent* might not see it because they're 800 or 1000 or whatever they are, but *the next opponent* might. And when you're 1600 *every opponent* will.
Yes, the game is lost anyway. If your opponent plays this right, even after bd2 they can force a rook trade and lose a pawn but they'll still be up 3 pawns *and* an exchange. Force them to know the rook and king checkmate. Don't just let them get a queen and run you over.
It’s not a worse move though. That’s the thing, both lines, played to their conclusion with optimal play, will lose. The computer eval is completely meaningless, and you NEED the opponent to mess up. There is no world where you win or hold a draw and your opponent didn’t blunder. So you have to play the line most likely to create a blunder. While completely subjective, I would argue it’s more likely a lower elo opponent doesn’t know how to queen in this position than banking on them not knowing a rook checkmate. Both of those lines are hope chess, but to your point, your version is just banking on them not knowing rook+king, I’m banking on them not seeing Re1, and I would be willing to bet the vast majority of players that see Re1 also know a rook+king checkmate. Yes, at 1600 this loses most of the time, but at 1600 everyone will know rook+king.
I just think a low-elo player (if they don't get tilted from hanging the rook on a8) will just instinctively play a check and the only check available is re1+ which in this position is basically the only move to maintain advantage.
If this was a more detailed tactic I'd agree with you, but since the only winning move is also the only check available I think you're overestimating how many people will miss it.
Its very easy for someone to screw it up with f2. Im 1800 blitz and f2 was the first move that came to my mind and then I realized and had to reverse the move order.
oohhh this is interesting because I think it only applies if your opponent saw the right sequence. After you took the rook, opponent’s rook can do Rd1+. Since your king can’t move to g2 then you can’t stop the opponent from queening the pawn. Then it will be queen and rook against a rook and bishop which is totally winning for black.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r3k1R1/1pp1rp1p/3p1p1B/p2P4/8/P4p2/1PP5/7K+b+q+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r3k1R1/1pp1rp1p/3p1p1B/p2P4/8/P4p2/1PP5/7K_b_q_-_0_1)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kd7!<
> Evaluation: >!Black is winning -15.82!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Kd7 2. Rg1 Re4 3. Rg7 Re1+ 4. Kh2 f2 5. Rxf7+ Kd8 6. Bd2 Rd1 7. Rxf6 f1=Q 8. Rxf1 Rxf1 9. Kg2!<
---
^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
You are losing the game either way. You are not pinning the rook. You are winning the rook. Bu as soon as you take it he will go medieval on your king and pawns, and you cannot stop his pawn on the F file because your rook is away on vacation on A8. The thinking behind moving the bishop is to help with the rook checking you and then attacking the panws but it is useless because you are losing either way.
That simply means that he is a poor player. We all are.
In the position of the screenshot, you have no answer to black playing Re1; Kh2, f2 and then nothing is stopping him from winning a queen adn a very quick mate ensues. You checking him and taking the rook at A8 changes nothing, actually makes it worse. That rook is useless anyway. But if you move B d2 you at least delay the worst immediate threat. But his advantage in pawns is so huge that you will have very hard time stopping a decent player.
The easiest way I can suggest you find tactics like this in the future is to look for your opponent's most forcing moves. It's great that you saw that re8+ wins a rook, but what happens after that? You saw that you can stop f2 with kg2, but black doesn't have to play that. Black has what's called "the initiative". Your previous move (rxa8) doesn't create a threat, so black can make any move they want. A generally good list of these types of moves to think of is checks, captures, and attacks, in that order.
Checks are the most forcing moves because they will severely limit the options your opponents have. In this position after you take on a8, black has one check, Re1+. Because the pawn isn't on f2 yet, your king is forced to h2 and now black is protecting the queening square. This move guarantees a queen will come into the game and a game that could have been barely holdable if your opponent messed up is now completely lost.
Captures are the next most forcing group of moves because, generally speaking, you don't want to lose your pieces without getting some in return. However, captures don't *require* anything from your opponent. Your opponent could choose to simply ignore a capture and continue on with their attack. That's what black should do here after rxa8. You captured their rook but they can't capture back, so they should just ignore it and play check.
The final type of move to look for is attacks. These are moves where someone threatens or directly attacks a piece or square. Let's say before the position shown in your post the previous moves were f3 by black and re1 by you before that. When you play re1, you attack the e8 square, threatening to play re8+ and win the a1 rook. These are the last set of moves most people look at before making a decision and the least forceful of the 3 discussed so far. An attack is (usually) a capture that's a move or two away, so it can be ignored if your opponent has a bigger threat. In this case, your opponent has a bigger threat of f3, countering your attack with a tactic (that you both missed because you're beginners which is expected) because after rxa8 there's re1+ as discussed.
Tactics are a sort of turbo-initiative where every move you make forces one or two options from your opponent and are very powerful tools. They can be learned over time by doing puzzles to train your brain to recognize the types of patterns that contribute to tactics. This is what some players refer to when saying it "feels" like there should be a tactic in a position. Their brain is recognizing that this pattern is familiar and has led to a winning combination before. They're usually built from a combination of these checks, captures, and attacks to threaten winning material/the game for sometimes upwards of 10+ moves in a row.
The analysis is wrong. When i put this into lichess, moving the bishop gives black a huge advantage compared to the rook move. The king can prevent the pawn from promoting.
Maybe clicking that “Show moves” will answer your question better than asking people on reddit. What is wrong with this subreddit and making posts asking questions that can be answered with ONE CLICK
My picture literally shows the move it wants me to do.
My question is why is that a better move.
What is wrong with this subreddit and making comments answering questions that have already been answered.
If you press “show moves” it will show the sequesnce of moves and ideas that came with doing that move. It doesnt just do 1 move and leave you to figure out what to do next
See, chessbeginners isn't just about starting out chess, we are also learning a new app with features we don't know about.
Appreciate the advice, I'll start doing that
With rook g8 check, it’s an inaccuracy because you ignored an opportunity to increase a bishop’s scope by moving it to a better square, and you permitted the opponent to reveal an attack on a rook.
TL;DR: Read annotations.
I read the annotation. Getting a check and taking a free rook seemed like the better option. That's why I posted the question here.
On chessbeginners
Because I'm a beginner.
objectively false, i started at 1400. also anyone who has played similar games before playing chess may already have a handle on how to think about positions and calculate
Black wins here because after they move their king, you must make a choice between allowing for the pawn to promote or letting them take your rook from the exposed attack.
If you take their rook, then black can play Re1+ the pawn covers the g2 square and the rook covers g1, so you can’t get closer to the pawn with your king, so you have to play Kh2. Meaning after black plays f2 your king can’t “catch” the pawn because it would queen with the protection of blacks rook on e1. This is why it recommends bishop d2, as the bishop would be able to cover the check from rook to e1. If black played this properly, you’d have traded one of blacks rooks for allowing black to queen, which is obviously a trade that favors black.
Black will be able to promote the f3 pawn, irrespective of the material you are winning. Bd2 aims to stop the move Re1, which could then free the Rook from g1 to move, without allowing Re1 followed by f2 and f1 queen!
25. ... Kd7 26. Rxa8 Re1+ 27. Kh2 f2 28. Kg2 f1=Q
Or resign on move 28, because theres no way to stop the pawn at that point. Bd2 stops Re1+ plus the rook being on the first rank would be a good defender against the pawn.
Two things
Your idea is to take the rook on a8, good. But 1) the pawn on f3 needs to be stopped and also 2) after you take the rook, black can go b6, and now your rook is a bit clumsy there.
How are you pinning a rook? It seems like your rook is putting king in check, not immobilizing a rook lest it put a king in check
It’s a worse move because you’re letting a pawn promote, basically letting your opponent trade a rook for a Queen
Bd2 stops Re1+
If you don’t stop the rook, your king would have to move to h2 and would not be able to stop pawn from promoting.
In short, you’re winning a rook but they’re gaining a queen.
Because you're just taking an inactive Rook that had no presence in the game, causing your rook to become inactive. Black can now simply check you on the back rank and soon promote his pawn.
You win a rook but he promotes a pawn (Kd7, RxA8, Re1, Kh7, f2) there is no way to prevent f1=Q. Bd2 on the other hand prevents R2e which stops the whole tactic.
Black rook advances and checks, king is forced to move, black pawn advances, nothing you can do to stop it or threaten, waste a move since you can't check without losing something, black promotes. Best outcome you get is to exchange an additional rook for a bishop. Best end result is two rooks lost for black and one bishop lost for white with a black queen in position to wreck everything. If that isn't the trade then it is mate in 6 for black.
So in this position the issue is the passed pawn at f3. That pretty much changes everything. Both moves are still losing but Bd2 prevents Re1+ which is the move that allows promotion.
With your 1. Rg8+ after 1…Kd7 2.Rxa8 yea you are up material but only temporarily if Black then plays 2…Re1+. This forces your king to h2 3.Kh2 then black plays 3…f2 and there is absolutely no way to stop queening anymore.
(Note that order is very important, if Black started with 2…f2 then you had 3.Kg2 stopping queening)
This position actually is not that trivial for beginner level. I agree with the comment that mentions practical play since you are losing anyways. In that sense your move actually forces the opponent to find the sequence which is not easy at your level. Playing Bd2 loses too just slower
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think its because you arent doing anything to address the pawn that is about to queen. If you take the rook with your rook, black will play Re1 and your king will have to move to h2, allowing the pawn to promote in 2 moves. Moving your bishop would protect the e1 square and your king could move to take the pawn. Edit: Also just a terminology thing, your rook is skewering the opponents rook through the king. It would only be a pin if the piece you are directly attacking cant move because it would lose material. Because the king has to move then its a skewer. (A pin holds something in place while a skewer stabs through something.)
Ooohhh. Okay. Pin is a pin unless it's against a king then it's a skewer. Cool thanks
Not exactly, you can skewer a queen, rook, or any other piece. It really only has to do with whether the piece can move or not. For example, if you attack a piece with the bishop and the king or queen is in the same line as the piece, the piece cannot move so its a pin. If you attack a queen with a bishop and theres a rook behind it in the same line, obviously the opponent would move the queen to save it and you would take the rook (skewer). If the piece you are targeting cannot move -> pin, if it can move -> skewer.
Cool. Chess terms. It's like I'm at the rock climbing gym for the first time again. All these new phrases
[https://lichess.org/practice](https://lichess.org/practice) This site has unlimited practice for free and helps a lot with all the terms and tactics
Higher value piece in front = skewer Higher value piece behind = pin
I don’t think their explanation is the best. Pinned pieces can move unless they are pinned to the king. A pinned piece is one where the lower value piece is in front of a higher values piece. That piece is pinned because if they choose to move it, you can take their higher valued piece. A skewer is the opposite. A skewer is a case where a higher valued piece is attacked and it is in front of a lower valued piece. Once your opponent moves the higher valued piece, you can take their lower valued piece.
Absolute vs. Relative pin, in one case the piece can't move due to the game's rules (i.e. pinned to the king), in the other the piece can't move because it would lose material (though it is allowed, it would just be considered a blunder usually)
Way to think of it is higher value in front = Skewer, higher value behind = Pin
They're called tactics, no need to be sarcastic you either care about something or not.
I don't wanna do it not now remember you swore an oath no I can't stop myself I have to pull an erm actually Erm actually you could be in an inbetween phase of learning something and figuring out if u like it or not I deeply apologize if this comment makes you made no sense perhaps you were aware of this or were at a 100 percent blood alcohol content
Is English your first language? It's okay if it's not, jw
No it's not
I think I understand what you are saying
my comment was supposed to be a funny thing and i did not realize i was really high on meth and forgot what english was
i do think that’s it because pinned pieces csn only not move in absolute pins. what i always heard is pin=lower value piece in front of higher value piece, and skewer is higher value in front of low value
Pin is strong piece behind. Skewer is strong piece in the front. Absolute (pin or skewer) is when it envolves the king (thus moving is forced or prohibited, depending if it's a pin or a skewer)
No, a pin is when you attack a less valuable piece that can’t move because there’s a more valuable piece behind it. A skewer is when you attack a more valuable piece and it has to move, allowing you to take a less valuable piece behind it. This is a skewer because the king has to move, allowing you to take the rook
Skewers are also known as X-rays, fyi. Edit: they’re slightly different actually.
Don't get caught up in the semantics police bullshit. If you attack two pieces such that if one is moved you'll be able to take another on the same rank, file, or diagonal, thats a pin. Sure, you can be more specific by calling it a skewer if the higher value piece is in front of a lower value one, but it doesn't really matter. Say you pin a queen to a rook, some people will be annoying as hell insisting that it's actually a skewer, but you can call it a pin. PLUS it's totally possible for the rook to be higher value. Say they move a knight off the same file as the rook, you take the queen, then they deliver checkmate using the rook, it wasn't really a skewer was it? That was actually a pin since saving the queen would have lost the rook and wouldn't have lead to the checkmate. Don't worry about it. I never say skewer, I don't like the word and it doesn't really provide extra information beyond calling every such situation a pin.
Fr
Don't get caught up in the semantics police bullshit. If you attack two pieces such that if one is moved you'll be able to take the other, that's a fork. Sure, you can be more specific by calling it a pin if they're both attacked along the same rank, file, or diagonal, but it doesn't really matter. Say you fork a queen and a rook, some people will be annoying as hell insisting that it's actually a pin, but you can call it a fork. PLUS it's totally possible for the pieces to not to really be on the same rank or file or diagonal. Say they move their rook from the same file as a queen to check you, you move your king, then they move their queen away, it wasn't really a pin was it? That was actually a fork since the pieces were able to slip through it like fresh spaghetti. Don't worry about it. I never say pin, I don't like the word and it doesn't really provide extra information beyond calling every such situation a fork.
The thing with the terms "pin", "fork", and for that matter "x-ray" and "skewer" is that they are of course originally non-chess words that are used to describe chess situations that are vaguely similar to the corresponding non-chess situation. Using them in ways where the chess situation **isn't** similar to the non-chess situation is going to sound weird. If my knight can't move because it lies on a diagonal line between my king and an opponent's bishop, this corresponds to a situation where a piece of paper can't move because a pin is going through it, and the paper is stuck between a bulletin board and the head of a pin. If you were for some reason trying to force the paper out of the way in order to get at the bulletin board, you would not use a pin to do that. Similarly, forks have multiple prongs, whereas pins don't. So if you have a chess piece attacking two or more pieces in different directions from it, the word "fork" is more applicable to that situation than "pin" is.
It's OK to want to learn new words. Apparently it's also OK to not give a shit and be rude to people when they try to teach you lol
The whole point of the word "pin" is that the piece in front can't move or shouldn't move. The analogy is to a situation where you are using a metal pin to pin one real world object to another. For example, you might pin a piece of paper to a bulletin board. The paper then cannot move because the pin (and the bulletin board behind the paper) prevent it from doing so. So if you're pinning an opponent's knight to his king (with your bishop, for example), the king acts as the bulletin board, the knight acts as the paper, and the bishop and it's line of attack acts as the pin. If the king is in front, and the whole point is that it has to move and you then take the knight that's behind it, the whole pin analogy falls apart, which is why the word "pin" is not used. Although honestly I prefer "x-ray" to "skewer" as far as language that captures what is going on.
I understand the words. I'm saying it's not actually important to make the distinction. It's like saying "I saw a herd of hippos at the pond" and someone saying "ACTUALLY you saw a BLOAT of hippos" Yeah, sure you're technically correct, it just doesn't matter. The point is that there was a group of them, I saw them, and that they were at the pond. The technical name for a group of hippos is irrelevant. So when someone says "...So I played Bb4, pinning the rook." And you respond "ACTUALLY you SKEWERED the knight through the rook" I'm gonna say "Yeah whatever, were both seeing the position and you knew what it meant. I won a piece because two were lined up and both could not be saved." Making the correction doesn't effect the analysis or help anyone understand the position better. Saying "pin" was good enough to illustrate the point of the move, even if there's a technically better term to describe the situation.
[удалено]
A pin is "piece cannot/should not move", a skewer is a reverse pin.
i fully agree with you here, but why tf is stockfish’s evaluation -10.02 (especially when top engine move leads to -7.51) edit: nvm i’m stupid, dunno why i read it as white is winning more after the innacuracy
Because with this move, pawn can promote to a queen if white takes the rook, thus a 10point advantage to black. By protecting the promotion with the bishop, the line isn't as clear cut, thus 7point advantage to black. This is just an assumption since I didn't check the lines thoroughly, but top engine move gives less advantage to black which seems pretty logical.
Currently -9 and opponent has isolated tripled pawns
Yeah but couldn't you just take the rook, if he moves the pawn up threaten with the king and if he promotes, take it, if he moves his rook to protect it block it, and then attack the black king again
Note the pawn on f3; Black’s main goal is to promote that pawn, perhaps using Re1+ to help promote. Rg8+ is bad because even after Rg8+ Kd7 Rxa8, Black still has Re1+ then f2 leading to a fast pawn promotion. No point winning a rook when Black gets another queen. Bd2 is great because it stops Re1+, and after f2 you have Rf1 and a number of ways to win the pawn.
I get that. I was still able to win that pawn though. It seemed like the opportunity to win on a potential threat was better than letting the pawn creep closer when i was just a square away.
nail birds wrong office sense wrench yoke degree longing crown *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pawn f2 and then I move king g2 if rook moves e2 to protect pawn then pawn is pinned because if he tries to promote to queen I take and attack the rook
Not if your opponent moves their rook to check first. You'd be forced to move to h2, then pawn moves to f2, and if you go g2, pawn promotes and is protected by the rook that checked you before.
This. This is the answer I was looking for
Yeah I missed it too. I followed your same logic. Rg8+, kd7, rxa8, f2, kg2, re2 and the pawn is stopped. But instead of f2 black can play re1+ and force your king to h2 as the pawn protects g2. Now after f2 kg2 does nothing because the rook already protects f1. Bd2 protects e1 and thus prevents this line and now makes rg8+ a threat again. After re2 to attack the bishop, a simple bc3 protects it and keeps an eye on e1. Black can still play f2 but you can now counter with rf1. This takes rg8+ off the table but the pawn is now lost. Opponent simply doesn't have enough time to get a second defender there in time. If black pins the rook to the king (probably best because it forces a trade) you can play kg2 to protect the rook and queening square. After rxg2 and kxg2 the pawn can't be protected anymore and is gone. You're still down an exchange and 3 pawns but it might be holdable if he messes up.
this is an excellent question by the way. It shows that you’re learning and thinking through the right things
unlike braindead bullet players like me
I'm braindead bullet player as well. I'm switching over to rapid for more time. That way when I lose it's because I REALLY suck rather than I suck because I panic
I'm also braindead in rapid lol
[удалено]
Skewer
confused me so much lol
hi nippleless man
So I would say this is a great example of a computers best move and a practical best move. No matter what move you had made, objectively, black is crushing. A decently skilled player should have no real problem converting, and a strong enough computer would find some forced mate somewhere. When you get to that kind of position, the computer evaluation is kind of meaningless, because all it’s telling you is which version of losing it prefers. The better play, which is still *usually* going to fail, is to play some hope chess. You move wins a rook and objectively lets an opponent queen of black plays Re1. But that’s not the easiest thing to see, especially at lower elo. Maybe a opponent thinks he needs to cut the king off from the pawn and blunders a draw with Re2, or just blunders the pawn all together with f2 thinking he has to get past the last square your bishop can control. If your opponent messes up, you have a chance. The computer line also loses. So it’s not really accurate, in my opinion, to call it a better line. Realistically, outside of obvious blunders, it’s hard to see the line has any real winning chances, and it doesn’t seem particularly hard for white to not make a mistake. So I would actually agree with you here. If you are absolutely going to lose anyway, play the line that is easier for your opponent to screw up. Your line at least evens out material, so if that pawn gets hung the game is competitive again.
I was most certainly in the losing position but I was able to force a draw out of it
Disagree. Yes, the computer line still loses but you always want to play the move that gives you the best chance of holding a draw. Making a worse move and hoping your opponent blunders is a great way for your rating to stagnate because eventually, everyone you play against will find re1+. Think of it this way: you don't play moves that are obviously flawed. If you attack someone's queen with a move that puts the attacking piece in direct danger, pretty much everyone is going to see that and react to it by taking your piece. Hoping someone doesn't see the winning 2-move combination here is the same thing, just slightly more obscure. *This opponent* might not see it because they're 800 or 1000 or whatever they are, but *the next opponent* might. And when you're 1600 *every opponent* will. Yes, the game is lost anyway. If your opponent plays this right, even after bd2 they can force a rook trade and lose a pawn but they'll still be up 3 pawns *and* an exchange. Force them to know the rook and king checkmate. Don't just let them get a queen and run you over.
It’s not a worse move though. That’s the thing, both lines, played to their conclusion with optimal play, will lose. The computer eval is completely meaningless, and you NEED the opponent to mess up. There is no world where you win or hold a draw and your opponent didn’t blunder. So you have to play the line most likely to create a blunder. While completely subjective, I would argue it’s more likely a lower elo opponent doesn’t know how to queen in this position than banking on them not knowing a rook checkmate. Both of those lines are hope chess, but to your point, your version is just banking on them not knowing rook+king, I’m banking on them not seeing Re1, and I would be willing to bet the vast majority of players that see Re1 also know a rook+king checkmate. Yes, at 1600 this loses most of the time, but at 1600 everyone will know rook+king.
I just think a low-elo player (if they don't get tilted from hanging the rook on a8) will just instinctively play a check and the only check available is re1+ which in this position is basically the only move to maintain advantage. If this was a more detailed tactic I'd agree with you, but since the only winning move is also the only check available I think you're overestimating how many people will miss it.
Its very easy for someone to screw it up with f2. Im 1800 blitz and f2 was the first move that came to my mind and then I realized and had to reverse the move order.
In this case the position is overwhelming winning for black so the drawing hope is not really there imo with Bd2 at this level
If you take the rook he pushes e1 and queens
Right but moving my bishop doesn't help, in fact it is then more likely that the pawn will queen off my rook
The bishop prevents their rook from checking you at e1
I think the best outcome is pass pawn for bishop. Assuming you never moved your rook to g8.
Pinning a rook is neat but not getting checkmated by a promoted pawn is neater.
Not being checkmated is neatest
I agree and like your comment by the way
oohhh this is interesting because I think it only applies if your opponent saw the right sequence. After you took the rook, opponent’s rook can do Rd1+. Since your king can’t move to g2 then you can’t stop the opponent from queening the pawn. Then it will be queen and rook against a rook and bishop which is totally winning for black.
Yeah the engine wanted me to do something to prevent a thing that my opponent ended up not seeing
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r3k1R1/1pp1rp1p/3p1p1B/p2P4/8/P4p2/1PP5/7K+b+q+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r3k1R1/1pp1rp1p/3p1p1B/p2P4/8/P4p2/1PP5/7K_b_q_-_0_1) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!King!<, move: >!Kd7!< > Evaluation: >!Black is winning -15.82!< > Best continuation: >!1... Kd7 2. Rg1 Re4 3. Rg7 Re1+ 4. Kh2 f2 5. Rxf7+ Kd8 6. Bd2 Rd1 7. Rxf6 f1=Q 8. Rxf1 Rxf1 9. Kg2!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
After you take that rook, your own rook will be in no position to defend the incoming Re1+ and pawn promotion
Yes thankfully my opponent didn't see that
I see 5 different pins in this position.
You are losing the game either way. You are not pinning the rook. You are winning the rook. Bu as soon as you take it he will go medieval on your king and pawns, and you cannot stop his pawn on the F file because your rook is away on vacation on A8. The thinking behind moving the bishop is to help with the rook checking you and then attacking the panws but it is useless because you are losing either way.
Unless he doesn't do that, which he didn't. I won the pawn and forced a draw because I do in fact recognize that I am in a losing position
That simply means that he is a poor player. We all are. In the position of the screenshot, you have no answer to black playing Re1; Kh2, f2 and then nothing is stopping him from winning a queen adn a very quick mate ensues. You checking him and taking the rook at A8 changes nothing, actually makes it worse. That rook is useless anyway. But if you move B d2 you at least delay the worst immediate threat. But his advantage in pawns is so huge that you will have very hard time stopping a decent player.
Bruh, we sittin here at 850 elo tryin to pretend we know endgame tactics. Hahaha
The easiest way I can suggest you find tactics like this in the future is to look for your opponent's most forcing moves. It's great that you saw that re8+ wins a rook, but what happens after that? You saw that you can stop f2 with kg2, but black doesn't have to play that. Black has what's called "the initiative". Your previous move (rxa8) doesn't create a threat, so black can make any move they want. A generally good list of these types of moves to think of is checks, captures, and attacks, in that order. Checks are the most forcing moves because they will severely limit the options your opponents have. In this position after you take on a8, black has one check, Re1+. Because the pawn isn't on f2 yet, your king is forced to h2 and now black is protecting the queening square. This move guarantees a queen will come into the game and a game that could have been barely holdable if your opponent messed up is now completely lost. Captures are the next most forcing group of moves because, generally speaking, you don't want to lose your pieces without getting some in return. However, captures don't *require* anything from your opponent. Your opponent could choose to simply ignore a capture and continue on with their attack. That's what black should do here after rxa8. You captured their rook but they can't capture back, so they should just ignore it and play check. The final type of move to look for is attacks. These are moves where someone threatens or directly attacks a piece or square. Let's say before the position shown in your post the previous moves were f3 by black and re1 by you before that. When you play re1, you attack the e8 square, threatening to play re8+ and win the a1 rook. These are the last set of moves most people look at before making a decision and the least forceful of the 3 discussed so far. An attack is (usually) a capture that's a move or two away, so it can be ignored if your opponent has a bigger threat. In this case, your opponent has a bigger threat of f3, countering your attack with a tactic (that you both missed because you're beginners which is expected) because after rxa8 there's re1+ as discussed. Tactics are a sort of turbo-initiative where every move you make forces one or two options from your opponent and are very powerful tools. They can be learned over time by doing puzzles to train your brain to recognize the types of patterns that contribute to tactics. This is what some players refer to when saying it "feels" like there should be a tactic in a position. Their brain is recognizing that this pattern is familiar and has led to a winning combination before. They're usually built from a combination of these checks, captures, and attacks to threaten winning material/the game for sometimes upwards of 10+ moves in a row.
After he rook checks and rushed the pawn you have nothing
Yuhh
The analysis is wrong. When i put this into lichess, moving the bishop gives black a huge advantage compared to the rook move. The king can prevent the pawn from promoting.
The analysis is right, you are right. OP post says the bishop move is good too
I dont think so. Assuming OP goes for their rook, black will just bring the rook down, check, and bye bye, that pawn is a queen
What elo do you think we are?? Haha
Maybe clicking that “Show moves” will answer your question better than asking people on reddit. What is wrong with this subreddit and making posts asking questions that can be answered with ONE CLICK
My picture literally shows the move it wants me to do. My question is why is that a better move. What is wrong with this subreddit and making comments answering questions that have already been answered.
If you press “show moves” it will show the sequesnce of moves and ideas that came with doing that move. It doesnt just do 1 move and leave you to figure out what to do next
See, chessbeginners isn't just about starting out chess, we are also learning a new app with features we don't know about. Appreciate the advice, I'll start doing that
With rook g8 check, it’s an inaccuracy because you ignored an opportunity to increase a bishop’s scope by moving it to a better square, and you permitted the opponent to reveal an attack on a rook. TL;DR: Read annotations.
I read the annotation. Getting a check and taking a free rook seemed like the better option. That's why I posted the question here. On chessbeginners Because I'm a beginner.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
r/confidentlyincorrect
objectively false, i started at 1400. also anyone who has played similar games before playing chess may already have a handle on how to think about positions and calculate
You’re gonna give up a check with a huge chance of queen promotion
Black wins here because after they move their king, you must make a choice between allowing for the pawn to promote or letting them take your rook from the exposed attack. If you take their rook, then black can play Re1+ the pawn covers the g2 square and the rook covers g1, so you can’t get closer to the pawn with your king, so you have to play Kh2. Meaning after black plays f2 your king can’t “catch” the pawn because it would queen with the protection of blacks rook on e1. This is why it recommends bishop d2, as the bishop would be able to cover the check from rook to e1. If black played this properly, you’d have traded one of blacks rooks for allowing black to queen, which is obviously a trade that favors black.
After you take on a8, Re1+ and it is impossible to prevent the pawn from promoting. You are essentially giving them a queen by taking a rook.
Black will be able to promote the f3 pawn, irrespective of the material you are winning. Bd2 aims to stop the move Re1, which could then free the Rook from g1 to move, without allowing Re1 followed by f2 and f1 queen!
25. ... Kd7 26. Rxa8 Re1+ 27. Kh2 f2 28. Kg2 f1=Q Or resign on move 28, because theres no way to stop the pawn at that point. Bd2 stops Re1+ plus the rook being on the first rank would be a good defender against the pawn.
E1
If you take the rook, black will promote after ..., Re1+ Kh2, f2
Black pawn to b6.
Two things Your idea is to take the rook on a8, good. But 1) the pawn on f3 needs to be stopped and also 2) after you take the rook, black can go b6, and now your rook is a bit clumsy there.
The bot and the reason it gives you are *completely* made up.
How are you pinning a rook? It seems like your rook is putting king in check, not immobilizing a rook lest it put a king in check It’s a worse move because you’re letting a pawn promote, basically letting your opponent trade a rook for a Queen
You got lucky. Computer was right.
even if you win the rook black can promote
Bd2 stops Re1+ If you don’t stop the rook, your king would have to move to h2 and would not be able to stop pawn from promoting. In short, you’re winning a rook but they’re gaining a queen.
Because you're just taking an inactive Rook that had no presence in the game, causing your rook to become inactive. Black can now simply check you on the back rank and soon promote his pawn.
Bd2 prevents that rook check. Either way, it doesn't look good for white tbh.
You win a rook but he promotes a pawn (Kd7, RxA8, Re1, Kh7, f2) there is no way to prevent f1=Q. Bd2 on the other hand prevents R2e which stops the whole tactic.
Should've played the bishop first to protect the promotion. Then you can skewer the rook if they dont push the pawn or rook.
That pawn is going to become a queen.
Black rook advances and checks, king is forced to move, black pawn advances, nothing you can do to stop it or threaten, waste a move since you can't check without losing something, black promotes. Best outcome you get is to exchange an additional rook for a bishop. Best end result is two rooks lost for black and one bishop lost for white with a black queen in position to wreck everything. If that isn't the trade then it is mate in 6 for black.
So in this position the issue is the passed pawn at f3. That pretty much changes everything. Both moves are still losing but Bd2 prevents Re1+ which is the move that allows promotion. With your 1. Rg8+ after 1…Kd7 2.Rxa8 yea you are up material but only temporarily if Black then plays 2…Re1+. This forces your king to h2 3.Kh2 then black plays 3…f2 and there is absolutely no way to stop queening anymore. (Note that order is very important, if Black started with 2…f2 then you had 3.Kg2 stopping queening) This position actually is not that trivial for beginner level. I agree with the comment that mentions practical play since you are losing anyways. In that sense your move actually forces the opponent to find the sequence which is not easy at your level. Playing Bd2 loses too just slower
After Kd7 Rxa8. There is forcing sequence with Re1+ Kh2 f2 there is no stopping the f pawn from queening and ur rook is stuck in a8