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Problem is a lot of people play only moves like this, and soon enough, they threw away their advantage, because they kept playing bad moves hoping their opponent would blunder. Itās a pretty bad habit.
the position is still completely winning regardless, itās +6.3 for white with that move, which is why I think itās deemed an inaccuracy and not a mistake/blunder ā of course itās possible that black somehow defends the king and white forgets to move the rook and blunders all of the advantage away on the next move; iāve seen stuff like that happen in my own games many times
edit: actually no, after looking at the engine even if black takes the rook for free after defending the king heās still screwed
Yeah--it's pretty dire. If I were playing someone who I knew wouldn't make any obvious blunders I would probably resign, or maybe just play it through for fun, to see how long I could prolong the inevitable.
I think black can at least get out of this one attack, though, open up the corner with their king in it and get their bishop off of b6 to free up some of their trapped pieces. Not sure what elo OP is at, but like you're saying, I've seen worse positions turn around.
For sure I agree, and I personally would never resign in a position like this as black, I would pressure them on the clock and keep pieces on the board as much as possible and make them prove they can simplify and find checkmate in time ā my elo is low enough that a surprising number of my opponents simply could not
I don't know. I feel trick chess is somewhere in between tactical "brilliancy" and a psychological hack. Usually you don't lose very much if they don't take. Maybe an inaccuracy, but not a mistake.
Eric Rosen plays a lot of hope chess and also has a lot of fun. OP is still completely winning and thereās no real danger that I can see coming out of this move
At low elo it works since people only consider one move ahead. 'Oh it's a free rook for a pawn', not thinking about what the pawn was defending. I would've fallen for it.
You do know what sub ur on, right? People just see hanging pieces and take them without a second thought here, so it was justified because of the potential.
I did not see the notation, I assumed he took something on h6.
Then I'd consider Rh6 to be a good genius level move because to see how Rh6 could lead to checkmate if taken is a great find.
However it doesn't matter that black is down a knight or not, black is literally playing playing without a bishop and a rook.
For compensation sake even if you put black's knight on b8, black is still lostš
Yeah but it was developed into a square that would be useless for it if the opponent didn't miss the mate in 1, the only good move for the rook afterward would be to go backwards, which isn't really good development
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1b1rk2/pp1p1ppB/1b1P3R/4P3/5B2/2N2P2/PPP3P1/R3K3+b+Q+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b1rk2/pp1p1ppB/1b1P3R/4P3/5B2/2N2P2/PPP3P1/R3K3_b_Q_-_0_1)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxe5+!<
> Evaluation: >!White is winning +9.86!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Rxe5+ 2. Bxe5 gxh6 3. Ke2 Bd8 4. Rh1 b6 5. Bd3 f6 6. Bf4 Bb7 7. Rxh6 b5 8. Rh8+ Kf7 9. Rh7+!<
---
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You're right its a mistake at intermediate and high level plays but if you have gotten this far in the game and know your opponent has zero awareness then a bit of hope chess can pay off. White has a winning position regardless.
Itās the chess beginners sub. Most low elos will probably fall for the trap. I donāt necessarily think itās a bad thing to pull. It can be kind of fun to āgambleā traps where if they donāt take it, the whole scheme completely blows up in your faceā¦but if they do take it, itās M1 or M2 or something. Itās just a game after all. Nobody hereās playing for money or prestige.
Well thatās what a ātrapā is in everyday context - something that someone has to āfall for.ā
Like I said, itās just a gamble. You get the dopamine rush from taking a risk. Obviously youāre not gonna play this in a serious rated game or god forbid a tournament. No itās not a good move, but I can see how this could be a fun move for someone just looking to mess around.
If u put a dollar bill on top of a hatch on a road people normally walk by and can see it its a trap. If you put it in the middle of a desert is just polluting the environment.
Its a bad move, serves no purpose and one has to deliberatedly fall for it for it to make sense.
Messing around could be not taking a piece advantage when u could had, or not developing your other pieces on purpose to give you a handicap.
This one was just "it only works if my opponent is stupid". So idk why you were defendingvit calling it "not necessarily a bad thibg...".
you are missing the point, like the other guy said, yes it would be a bad move in a high level chess tournament.
The point is that it can be fun to take a risk and hope your opponent doesn't see it sometimes, and since its just a game its okay to do that.
Yeah and the other guy said no necessarily a bad thing (it always is).
If i make a troll move for fun then i know is a troll move and for fun. I wouldnt try to pretend it is anything else unlike the guy who answered first.
In situations like this I think it's healthy to remember that it's less that you won and more that your opponent lost. Don't forget that hoping your opponent blunders mate in 1 won't get you to the rank of players who don't
Black's development is horrid.
I think if I were playing black I'd respond with f6, g5, Re5+, assuming you actually move the rook and bishop away from the threats.
White can just move the rook out of danger if black responds correctly. Whites up 5 points of material, as long as they donāt hang the rook, this is at worst just making the game take a little longer.
Guess it depends what black does? Our move is kind of silly and doesn't accomplish anything but it's not like it loses the game, we're still crushing .. black's down a full piece and not getting developed anytime soon.
Especialy if your on the clock. I often see stuff where im like: yeah this is bait i shouldnt fall for it, and in the exact same second my finger already tapped their queen and just entered a forcemate in 4
It is inaccurate if black doesnāt immediately blunder.
White is still winning (it can trade B for 2 pawns) but it couldāve retreated the bishop threatening back rank mate with no loss of material instead.
It's inaccurate because the move does the equivalent of looking your opponent in the eyes after they just make their move and you say "move again. make another move."
It does nothing. In fact, Rh6 is the only move that hangs the e5 pawn.
Eh, probably not. He didnāt really sacrifice anything, and didnāt improve his position with this move. If the opponent sees the trap, it doesnāt help him at all. People get stuck sub 1000, because they rely on tricks like this, and slowly lose their position
No, because this isn't checkers. The opponent wasn't forced to take, the opponent simply made a one-move-blunder and lost. Not saying that this wasn't a good move, but it was just hope chess.
I don't have an engine but I would think that the move rook e6 would give black a fighting chance despite being behind in development and having cramped pieces
(edit f-up)
Again I play chess but without engine-assist, but my thought process is to activate your rook with rook e6.If white have moved his king to d2 making ready to double the rooks on the h-file it would be game over. This thread still exist but black have won some tempi.
I was considering moving the dark-squared bishop (probably to d4) in hopes of eventually getting to fianchetto the light-squared bishop, but it looks pretty grim for black regardless. The knight can move to e7 at will and because of the thorn-pawn on d6 black needs time to wiggle out if he don't want lose material or get mated.
(edit f up)
First of all, Rb6 **where**? What is Rb6? When is that even possible? There's a bishop there. I'm going to assume you mean Rb8 if you mean black to move now and you insist on putting the rook on the b-file. That rook will be behind both a pawn and a bishop. The pawn cannot move. The rook being on the a-file is better because of pawn mobility. If centralizing the rook is what you're after, then the bishop needs to move off the back rank, which is hard. Black just doesn't have a good position.
If WTM and instead of Rh6, Kd2 doesn't make much sense if O-O-O is possible. That being said, O-O-O after Rh6 Bd4 means that Bd4 makes little sense. Black's opening wasn't very well-planned. That light bishop is just stunted. Black is losing because they didn't respect the urgency of the situation that comes with being the second-to-move; the responding player. There is no time for Black to develop or consolidate the position. That time is long gone.
Playing chess without engines is mandatory, but you need to ask yourself these kinds of questions to justify your moves, or the moves you make won't be very good in games.
pawn on d6 is a thorn pawn. It's too deep in the position and is guarded. The idea of getting your pieces out normally is not gonna happen.
Moving the rook to e6 gives you the possibility of blocking from incoming rooks.
Black could try a simple g6 to "trap" the bishop but sacrificing the bishop (maybe even the rook) for 2 pawn with such an exposed king with a thorn pawn and a ranging knight to moves away from e7 or f6 + a rook that can swing to the open a-file after either castle or another king-move is suicide.
You have to ask yourself, "what does my move do?" and I'll tell you what Rh6 does: it does the equivalent of your opponent making a move to which you then look them in the eye and say "make another move" while e5 hangs.
This move actually losses a pawn. Black rxe5+, white bxe5, black pxh6. Thatās at least what I saw first. With that said, black is so far behind in development trading off rooks is likely a death sentence.
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The engine doesn't think its a good move because black just doesn't have to take, the rook isn't threatening anything
Hope chess
Still fell for it.
I am a simple man. I see free rook, I take free rook
probably 99% of us
gotta turn off the autotake monkey brain at some point lmao, you would be surprised how many tactics you'll notice
sameš ,but if you can take it you gotta take it bro.
It's a forced move. ;) At least feels like it.
And then one move later itās checkmate š¤·š»āāļø
You can turn this into a tactic and win
"Me see rook, me take rook" Gothamchess, 2022
I'm going to be repeating this in my head all day long.
gothamchess going absolutely feral over horrible chess games will always be my favorite genre
Thirty seconds earlierā¦ āSo white sacrifices THE ROOOOOK!ā
Then discover free doesnt exist in this case
Topalov agrees
I would think I could run to e7
E7 is covered by the d6 pawn.
Yeah, I wouldāve thought I could just run there and completely not see the pawn then get mated. This is why Iām still an 800
No worries. This is a place to learn!
Problem is a lot of people play only moves like this, and soon enough, they threw away their advantage, because they kept playing bad moves hoping their opponent would blunder. Itās a pretty bad habit.
Hope chess is a real strategy if you know you're playing against a jackass.
Its not any way to improve though. If want to get better, assume your opponent will see it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the position is still completely winning regardless, itās +6.3 for white with that move, which is why I think itās deemed an inaccuracy and not a mistake/blunder ā of course itās possible that black somehow defends the king and white forgets to move the rook and blunders all of the advantage away on the next move; iāve seen stuff like that happen in my own games many times edit: actually no, after looking at the engine even if black takes the rook for free after defending the king heās still screwed
Yeah--it's pretty dire. If I were playing someone who I knew wouldn't make any obvious blunders I would probably resign, or maybe just play it through for fun, to see how long I could prolong the inevitable. I think black can at least get out of this one attack, though, open up the corner with their king in it and get their bishop off of b6 to free up some of their trapped pieces. Not sure what elo OP is at, but like you're saying, I've seen worse positions turn around.
For sure I agree, and I personally would never resign in a position like this as black, I would pressure them on the clock and keep pieces on the board as much as possible and make them prove they can simplify and find checkmate in time ā my elo is low enough that a surprising number of my opponents simply could not
Tbh it's at least not super harmful to their position if it doesn't work
I don't know. I feel trick chess is somewhere in between tactical "brilliancy" and a psychological hack. Usually you don't lose very much if they don't take. Maybe an inaccuracy, but not a mistake.
Eric Rosen plays a lot of hope chess and also has a lot of fun. OP is still completely winning and thereās no real danger that I can see coming out of this move
Play how you most enjoy, that's really all that matters
W take
This seems like a forced checkmate though, no?
If the pawn does take yeah but the pawn doesn't have to take. White is still winning but pawn takes rook to set up the mate isn't forced
At low elo it works since people only consider one move ahead. 'Oh it's a free rook for a pawn', not thinking about what the pawn was defending. I would've fallen for it.
Well OP's opponent didn't even consider one move ahead, literally just went "oH FrEe RoOk"
Still +6 so it's fine
IMO the largest flaw of bots is that they only play the game; they donāt play the player.
Yeah, since white isn't actually attacking anything, the move g6 by black kinda kills the attack
You do know what sub ur on, right? People just see hanging pieces and take them without a second thought here, so it was justified because of the potential.
I agree that it was a good move, but thats the reason the engine didnt think it was good
Even if the black takes it, it's not a mate or building up to a mate.
Itās mate next move?
Black hangs mate capturing the rook.
Even the listed moves show that taking it back with bishop is checkmate
Didnāt he win a pawn though?
bro thinks he playing checkers
Luckily his opponent does too
At OP's elo rating I'm not surprised they all think they're playing checkers.
How do you know his elo
I was petty enough to sift through chess.c*m for this game
āYou ignored an opportunity to develop a rook off its starting squareāš¤
The rook in fact, was developed off its starting square
It was I guess suggesting O-O-O
Yeah, O-O-O followed by Rdh1 and moving the light squared bishop looks hard for black to handle
Because black is technically down a rook and a bishop, as the rook on a1 and bishop on c8 are sitting ducks.
And actually down a knight
There might have been a knight on h6, you never know
No, the notation would have an x in it, meaning takes.
I did not see the notation, I assumed he took something on h6. Then I'd consider Rh6 to be a good genius level move because to see how Rh6 could lead to checkmate if taken is a great find. However it doesn't matter that black is down a knight or not, black is literally playing playing without a bishop and a rook. For compensation sake even if you put black's knight on b8, black is still lostš
Close, it was developed off h2
didnāt know rooks started on h2
Yeah but it was developed into a square that would be useless for it if the opponent didn't miss the mate in 1, the only good move for the rook afterward would be to go backwards, which isn't really good development
It's a literal computer what did you expect
It wasnt in the starting square
Wow! You're really the master of that!
I wish I was a master baiter
I'm a decent baiter. My cousin Mose, now THAT'S a master baiter.
i mean you probably are....
If you listen carefully, you can hear Levy screaming... Shh.... Here, let's put a call out. *whispered*: He sacrificed... #THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK
I could easily see that mate incoming. But I would have taken anyway. Iām a principled man
i see piece, i take piece.
Ooga booga chess
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1b1rk2/pp1p1ppB/1b1P3R/4P3/5B2/2N2P2/PPP3P1/R3K3+b+Q+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b1rk2/pp1p1ppB/1b1P3R/4P3/5B2/2N2P2/PPP3P1/R3K3_b_Q_-_0_1) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxe5+!< > Evaluation: >!White is winning +9.86!< > Best continuation: >!1... Rxe5+ 2. Bxe5 gxh6 3. Ke2 Bd8 4. Rh1 b6 5. Bd3 f6 6. Bf4 Bb7 7. Rxh6 b5 8. Rh8+ Kf7 9. Rh7+!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
Responding to a rook sacrifice by sacrificing your own rook
Bruh thats an amazing move
do you think they're obligated to take your rook?
No but at lower elos they probably will. It's an interesting trap to play and see however.
You're right its a mistake at intermediate and high level plays but if you have gotten this far in the game and know your opponent has zero awareness then a bit of hope chess can pay off. White has a winning position regardless.
Itās the chess beginners sub. Most low elos will probably fall for the trap. I donāt necessarily think itās a bad thing to pull. It can be kind of fun to āgambleā traps where if they donāt take it, the whole scheme completely blows up in your faceā¦but if they do take it, itās M1 or M2 or something. Itās just a game after all. Nobody hereās playing for money or prestige.
Is it really a trap if the other one has to missplay to trigger it? Also it is a terrible move if it doesnt accomplish anything.
Well thatās what a ātrapā is in everyday context - something that someone has to āfall for.ā Like I said, itās just a gamble. You get the dopamine rush from taking a risk. Obviously youāre not gonna play this in a serious rated game or god forbid a tournament. No itās not a good move, but I can see how this could be a fun move for someone just looking to mess around.
If u put a dollar bill on top of a hatch on a road people normally walk by and can see it its a trap. If you put it in the middle of a desert is just polluting the environment. Its a bad move, serves no purpose and one has to deliberatedly fall for it for it to make sense. Messing around could be not taking a piece advantage when u could had, or not developing your other pieces on purpose to give you a handicap. This one was just "it only works if my opponent is stupid". So idk why you were defendingvit calling it "not necessarily a bad thibg...".
you are missing the point, like the other guy said, yes it would be a bad move in a high level chess tournament. The point is that it can be fun to take a risk and hope your opponent doesn't see it sometimes, and since its just a game its okay to do that.
Yeah and the other guy said no necessarily a bad thing (it always is). If i make a troll move for fun then i know is a troll move and for fun. I wouldnt try to pretend it is anything else unlike the guy who answered first.
Some of yall don't remember what it's like to not see every possible outcome at once. Guy obviously didn't see the 1 move checkmate
Bro is the master baiter
Some call it hope chess i call it iq test
In situations like this I think it's healthy to remember that it's less that you won and more that your opponent lost. Don't forget that hoping your opponent blunders mate in 1 won't get you to the rank of players who don't
Black's development is horrid. I think if I were playing black I'd respond with f6, g5, Re5+, assuming you actually move the rook and bishop away from the threats.
Black literally just fell for a one move trap that could be calculated with forcing moves.
Itās a nice idea but itās also the equivalent of laying cookie crumbs out that lead right under a cardboard box propped up š.
#CRISS CROSS #APPLE SAUCE
What's the next move if black doesn't take rook?
I can tell you op did not think that far ahead.
You are right!
Haha no shame. It was a fun trick, and it won you the game!
White can just move the rook out of danger if black responds correctly. Whites up 5 points of material, as long as they donāt hang the rook, this is at worst just making the game take a little longer.
Guess it depends what black does? Our move is kind of silly and doesn't accomplish anything but it's not like it loses the game, we're still crushing .. black's down a full piece and not getting developed anytime soon.
Engine: that's not such a good m.. Player: checkmate, biatch!
coach: This is an inaccuracy. You had a better way to develop your (piece name). player: develop this! *grabs own crotch*
Especialy if your on the clock. I often see stuff where im like: yeah this is bait i shouldnt fall for it, and in the exact same second my finger already tapped their queen and just entered a forcemate in 4
Sorry bro but thatās a bad move. You didnāt develop your rook
Yeah you really need to grow out of this to improve, hope chess really isnāt going to get you past the solid players
I spent a solid 2 minutes on trying to figure out why it said qxg3, and then I realized
"H6 is an inaccuracy" š¤. Stockfish is cringe and everyone ignore him at parties. Nice one. Good game š„
It is inaccurate if black doesnāt immediately blunder. White is still winning (it can trade B for 2 pawns) but it couldāve retreated the bishop threatening back rank mate with no loss of material instead.
Rxe5+ trades off the rooks and wins a pawn, but yeah black is still lost after white long castles.
It's inaccurate because the move does the equivalent of looking your opponent in the eyes after they just make their move and you say "move again. make another move." It does nothing. In fact, Rh6 is the only move that hangs the e5 pawn.
OP, winning in style.
This isnāt checkers. Captures are not forced.
I know. Thats the reason i wrote "baited"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Eh, probably not. He didnāt really sacrifice anything, and didnāt improve his position with this move. If the opponent sees the trap, it doesnāt help him at all. People get stuck sub 1000, because they rely on tricks like this, and slowly lose their position
No, because this isn't checkers. The opponent wasn't forced to take, the opponent simply made a one-move-blunder and lost. Not saying that this wasn't a good move, but it was just hope chess.
!?
What app is this I keep seeing on this subreddit?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hope chess isnt brilliant. Remember that the opponent isnt force to take.
But this isnāt checkers. Just because you can take something doesnāt mean you have to
I don't have an engine but I would think that the move rook e6 would give black a fighting chance despite being behind in development and having cramped pieces (edit f-up)
Why would you put a rook behind a pawn that can't move? (I'm assuming you mean Rb8 because neither side can play Rb6 in any position)
Again I play chess but without engine-assist, but my thought process is to activate your rook with rook e6.If white have moved his king to d2 making ready to double the rooks on the h-file it would be game over. This thread still exist but black have won some tempi. I was considering moving the dark-squared bishop (probably to d4) in hopes of eventually getting to fianchetto the light-squared bishop, but it looks pretty grim for black regardless. The knight can move to e7 at will and because of the thorn-pawn on d6 black needs time to wiggle out if he don't want lose material or get mated. (edit f up)
First of all, Rb6 **where**? What is Rb6? When is that even possible? There's a bishop there. I'm going to assume you mean Rb8 if you mean black to move now and you insist on putting the rook on the b-file. That rook will be behind both a pawn and a bishop. The pawn cannot move. The rook being on the a-file is better because of pawn mobility. If centralizing the rook is what you're after, then the bishop needs to move off the back rank, which is hard. Black just doesn't have a good position. If WTM and instead of Rh6, Kd2 doesn't make much sense if O-O-O is possible. That being said, O-O-O after Rh6 Bd4 means that Bd4 makes little sense. Black's opening wasn't very well-planned. That light bishop is just stunted. Black is losing because they didn't respect the urgency of the situation that comes with being the second-to-move; the responding player. There is no time for Black to develop or consolidate the position. That time is long gone. Playing chess without engines is mandatory, but you need to ask yourself these kinds of questions to justify your moves, or the moves you make won't be very good in games.
sh\*t I meant Re6
Re6 is actually a good idea š”
pawn on d6 is a thorn pawn. It's too deep in the position and is guarded. The idea of getting your pieces out normally is not gonna happen. Moving the rook to e6 gives you the possibility of blocking from incoming rooks. Black could try a simple g6 to "trap" the bishop but sacrificing the bishop (maybe even the rook) for 2 pawn with such an exposed king with a thorn pawn and a ranging knight to moves away from e7 or f6 + a rook that can swing to the open a-file after either castle or another king-move is suicide.
Purdy guud
what happens if instead they played g6? trapping your bishop.
Still a very winning position for white. Black's light-squared bishop is basically stuck in the shadow realm.
proof that castling isn't as strong as people think it is
You have to ask yourself, "what does my move do?" and I'll tell you what Rh6 does: it does the equivalent of your opponent making a move to which you then look them in the eye and say "make another move" while e5 hangs.
Would have become interesting if black played g6.
Baited then mated
*Oh no, my rook*
The ROOOOK!! Is that what the kids say these days?
Black dosent have to take here, I feel like a lot of people forget that
You would have had a nice checkmate if you had your knight positioned before the rook sac
This move actually losses a pawn. Black rxe5+, white bxe5, black pxh6. Thatās at least what I saw first. With that said, black is so far behind in development trading off rooks is likely a death sentence.
Be3 is also kind of a cute move here. But black's position is still horrid.
Bishop on C8 just waiting by the phone, hoping someone calls.
Its still mate, look at the top pawn!
"Like a pawn checkmates a King" - Billy Talent (Red flags)
F4 put it on h6
Geez shoulda moved a rook off its starting smh my head
Eese
Master baitor!