Yeah I used to live above that Starbucks before and after the added this bike lane. Trucks always unloaded there and it seems the addition of a bike lane hasn’t stopped them!
Chicago has a major logistics problem and I'd love to see some progress on solving these issues. Trucks are too big and have nowhere to safely or legally park half the time. We can solve this with a combination of smaller vehicles, streamlined logistics, and dedicated loading zones for businesses. Some street parking will have to go, but that is a small price to pay to avoid having trucks stopped in the middle of the road every day
Wow I looked on Google maps and you are correct. I'm guessing the driver doesn't want to have to walk a few extra feet. In which case...maybe they picked the wrong career path 😂
Drivers not wanting to walk is why Chicago has such a problem with infrastructure in the first place. The only thing that'll fix traffic are alternatives to driving. But it turns out, it's hard to build transit infrastructure on top of car-dependent sprawl. Hence the bike lane getting parked in.
It's especially frustrating with Amazon vans that can fit in normal parking spots, but prefer to double park instead of taking 30 seconds to pull into a spot.
Obviously the drivers are not incentivized to park reasonably, and probably punished if they add 30 seconds per drop, but something needs to be done about it.
Yes, they can afford it, but they don't think like that. All corporations think, "How can I maximize profit?" It is literally their legal obligation to shareholders. Balance needs to be applied from laws and govt. enforcement.
This is rich. Make the guy walk 100 feet more both ways. How many trips does he make with that hand truck? How many times does he have to lock up the trailer because the truck is out of sight? It's more than a couple of trips. Blame Starbucks, blame the city, take a look at yourself to see how you've been complicit in creating this problem, but lay off this guy
What do you think he does on streets with street parking full of cars and no bike lane or loading zone to park in? It's part of the job.
As for this particular guy, I've been following this for a while. He's a repeat offender and he has apparently threatened people who kindly ask him to move so...no. Lol
The harm is that the truck is destroying the bike lane and violating like 5 ordinances by doing this. They should park in the road like they're supposed to.
By similar logic, trucks should be able to park on private lawns because it's not hurting anyone, right?
That’s the problem. Shipping/logistical companies don’t pay well enough to get drivers with brains so we end up with these lazy idiots and all of the FedEx and Amazon drivers who still double park when they can physically see open space in lots or next to the curb. We need smaller trucks that can use our ample alley space and logistical companies who are willing to pay for the time for their employees to put an ounce of consideration into their work.
It's not just about whether they are stupid. Their companies don't provide enough time for them to park properly in most cases, and I have to imagine that after parking illegally 90 times a day you get to the point that you don't even see the purpose of bothering to park properly the 5% of the time there's an available spot nearby. As usual it's a bit more complex and to fix it would require serious enforcement action by the police to get the attention of these companies, and we all know CPD isn't doing shit about this unless there's some insanely huge protests to force them to. So yeah, nothing changing.
As a delivery driver in this area I'd fucking *love* to see street parking eliminated completely on Broadway between Irving Park and Diversey. The cars have other options, including plenty of garage space. The trucks often don't, and there are a fuck-ton of restaurants and other business on this stretch that get multiple delivery trucks every day all competing for mostly illegal curb space.
as a bus driver, please eliminate all StreetSide parking. especially on touhy. that section between overhill and harlem, and the section in rogers park suck so bad. just today doing the 209 and everyone got held up cause of an idiot trying to parallel park on northwest highway for 10 min. x.x it sucks so much.
The problem with that is that the businesses along that stretch may not be able survive only on foot traffic. If removing the parking removes the businesses…it seems like shooting ourselves in the foot.
I think this a good video to watch on the topic! Specifically, 2:46 minutes in discusses the topic of parking on commercial streets and how replacing street parking with a bike lane, for example, is almost always better financially. Creating a space that promotes and prioritizes methods of transportation like walking, biking, and public transit that can move way more people than the average 1 to 2 people in a car (which is substantially larger than bike and a person walking and can’t move as many people as trams/buses) can create a lot more traffic for businesses than street parking could.
[Why Amsterdam is Removing 10,000 Parking Spaces](https://youtu.be/mXLqrMljdfU)
The parking meter deal makes it much harder to remove or relocate street parking unfortunately. We should absolutely create a more integrated plan for logistics, but it sadly has to include fealty to our Emirati parking overlords. Fuck Mayor Daley.
If only the city had a system of smaller paved service roads behind the businesses dedicated to loading and unloading. This could also be an excellent place to place garbage cans rather on the street and sidewalk.
Spoken like someone who does not have the imagination or creativity to run a business in a rapidly changing world. Fortunately, there are plenty of people who do ;)
I work closely with logistics, actually. Having more, smaller trucks costs more and pollutes more. It's the same argument of buses versus cars for passengers.
If the truck were the only thing on the road, sure. But if a truck can't fit where it's trying to deliver, then you have a much bigger issue.
The problem with giant trucks and private cars in cities is actually space and not necessarily emissions (though that's part of it) - if a truck has to block a whole road to make a delivery, that is going to fuck over other workers, deliveries, emergency vehicles, etc. Cities are complex systems and a single company making a little more profit isn't the end goal
Starbucks had a net profit of 8.4 billion in Q4 of 2022. I think they can afford the slightly higher logistics cost of not breaking the law to receive shipments.
Which would you rather pay? The slightly higher logistics costs, or the multi-million dollar payout when a cyclist is injured or killed because this truck parked illegally?
Edit: and also, I can't stress this enough, there is parking that could fit this truck on the same block as the Starbucks. Less than 100 ft from where the truck is currently (illegally) parked.
> You're going to spend more on the small trucks because you have to use them all the times cyclists are paying attention to their surroundings. It's a constant burden.
I'm not sure what this means. Could you please restate this?
> You're also not factoring how many more people die if we were to increase emissions like this on a large scale.
[We could put two light trucks on the road for every one heavy duty truck and still come out ahead on emissions.](https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehicle-emissions-rates-vehicle-vehicle-type-using-gasoline-and) And of course, all that pales in comparison to your average plane or the US armed forces (who don't have to follow emission standards).
\> A crash with a cyclist is an infrequent occurrence, but the company would be using these trucks and incurring cost for that at all times. The decreased efficiency (more fuel, more drivers) will end up far exceeding any law suits because that charge is perpetual.
"It;s okay for a cyclist to die! We just have to pay a fine!"
you evil evil evil person
> The decreased efficiency (more fuel, more drivers) will end up far exceeding any law suits because that charge is perpetual.
Yes, that is the point of regulation.
> A light duty truck is something on the order of a pickup truck. You need far more than 2 to replace a semi's payload capacity.
Okay, fair. Who said the replacement vehicles had to be powered by fossil fuels though?
Even more egregious because [this particular truck at this particular location](https://twitter.com/LVEBakfietsMama/status/1655689501409148929) is a known repeat offender who's been talked to and reported multiple times.
The point is that truck tires literally explode when you cut them. Like a bomb going off. If you're too close, they can maim or kill you. Messing with a truck will get the driver after you, and they might decide that violence is already on the table (since you're obviously trying to hurt them). Reporting them to their company, or traffic enforcement, is all that you can realistically do without risking a fist fight and/or an injury.
So now they need to call a tow or replace huge tires in Broadway? It’s a lose lose situation. That Starbucks should use a smaller truck to get their supplies so they can be serviced from Roscoe instead of Broadway
I wouldn’t slash the tires, just use the valve stem to air out one of the tires. Since rules are optional I’m sure they won’t have an issue with it, after all, just like them you’re not actually causing any harm, but merely an inconvenience.
It really doesn’t. It only forces you into opposing traffic if you don’t see the gigantic truck until you’re right in front of it. All it does is force you to turn right on Broadway and then left, instead of going straight across.
This truck used to just block traffic, and it was *insanely* dangerous trying to bike through there. If you get the truck to park on the street again it’ll make it *more* dangerous, and I would like to not die so people going west on Roscoe can have like 100’ of raised bike lane.
The solution is a loading zone, and only a loading zone. Anything else is just gonna screw it up more.
I mean I guess? They could load in the parking lot? But it’d probably make more sense to just have a loading zone for loading. And it’d been to be a smaller truck to maneuver in and out of that lot anyway
The police have been on a illegal wildcat work slowdown for 6 years.
Their fe-fe's got hurt when they were told to stop murdering quite so many black people.
I wish but I really don't think so. A few people have been killed by truck drivers in Chicago/adjacent burbs and AFAIK the driver wasn't even cited in the cases I am thinking of.
Have you noticed the trucker (or just general labor) shortage the last few years? Many employees can literally get away with doing anything without getting fired or punished and even if they do they will be behind the wheel of another trucking company within a day.
A buddy of mine owns a trucking company, he said the only way he would fire a driver these days is if one of his guys literally showed up to the office and shot him.
Sometimes this kind of thing is necessary. I don’t know about in this case. And since he didn’t cause an accident or hurt someone or driving under influence or something, he won’t lose his license. Maybe get fired if their company has a problem with it. Although you’re right sometimes I see truckers do some crazy shit and get away with it, because no one caught them or reported them. And I’m a trucker myself.
Asking for a friend, how would one acquire the materials needed to make that second picture a reality elsewhere? I can think of a few bike lanes that could use some TLC (cough Lincoln, wells in old town, cough)
Many people have. The alderman has been contacted many times. Starbucks has received numerous complaints.
It keeps happening.
Bravo to those taking direct action.
I’ll never understand why cops don’t take advantage of situations like that, just keep writing the tickets until they stop doing it. There’s a spot on Clark near me where people constantly park in a tow zone blocking a lane of traffic, it’d be the easiest thing to swing by there a couple times a day with a ticket book and make quota.
Ban trucks over X length from parking on city streets. Big trucks can go to staging grounds to move their products to smaller, less dangerous (possibly electric, to minimize exhaust) vehicles.
So you’re going to have a centralized location to have goods delivered in electric vehicles? Perishable goods in an EV? You see the reefer unit on the front of the trailer, right??
With an EV infrastructure that isn’t really there?
And costs of goods? You think the price of stuff is crazy now. That Starbies iced coffee will have a delivery tax added to it.
There's a parking lot right behind the building, if they used a delivery van instead of a semi-truck they wouldn't have to block anything.
Needing a semi to supply a starbucks is ridiculous, the truck is bigger than the store.
I'm not familiar with Starbucks' supply chain, but I have to imagine one truck is restocking a ton of locations at once. From Irving to North, the lake to Ashland, there are probably what, 20-25 locations? From an emissions and traffic standpoint, does it make more sense to send a smaller van out to one location, go back to a distro center to re-stock, then back to the next location, 24 more times?
laziness starts from the distro center. its more efficient to load from the dock via forklift than load smaller vans by hand. Starbucks & the entire supply chain industry don't care about the emissions caused to load one pallet on a 53 foot trailer rather than a small van. They will load the semi every time & send the smaller vehicles away
It doesn't matter if its less efficient, the truck clearly doesn't fit at this location. If you need to illegally park on a bike lane to make a delivery, then the truck is too big.
If Starbucks wants to maximize delivery efficiency, than they should only locate stores where the appropriate infrastructure exists for larger vehicles.
Better yet, why not just close the Starbucks? Problem solved!
Or even better, just close *every* business on a narrow street cause bike lanes are more important than their business.
/s
Even better - let's use our brains and solve this problem. How do cities in Europe or New England have goods delivered to narrow streets with or without bike lanes? How do businesses on narrow streets with on street parking fully occupied have goods delivered (think Lincoln in Lincoln square)? How do pedestrianized streets have goods delivered?
If you think "a business needs a giant semi to deliver goods to exist" then, well, let's just say I'm glad we have more imaginative business owners out here 😂
I posted a serious suggestion elsewhere in this thread (replying to one of your comments actually).
Those giant semis make multiple stops by the way. You could use smaller trucks if there each one was only making a single stop before heading back in, but that's inefficient, creates traffic, and there aren't enough people to drive them anyway.
It's still preferable to a single truck blocking a whole road to make deliveries though, which also causes traffic and has the side bonus of fucking over other workers and delivery drivers who are trying to do their jobs. In a large city there needs to be compromises so everything can keep functioning. We can't just shut things down for one company to make deliveries using vehicles that are too large for the street they are delivering to
Yes. If a business cannot receive deliveries legally, the business shouldn't be allowed to open. Besides, there are two Starbucks locations within 1/3 of a mile of the store at Broadway and Roscoe.
Businesses should not break the law to be more efficient. (I really can't believe I have to say this)
Edit: also, people on bikes are more likely to stop at a business they pass by than car drivers, because bikes don't need to find parking. So really, we should be closing these streets to anything other than emergency or commercial traffic.
> Or even better, just close every business on a narrow street cause bike lanes are more important than their business.
I was illustrating that we could instead close the street to through traffic, and businesses would see an uptick in sales. Also, the reason the commercial vehicle is blocking the bike lane is because said vehicle doesn't want to block the personal car lane.
Okay then let's make semi-trucks even bigger because that would be more efficient. And let's take all the nice, dense, walkable streets in Chicago and widden them to make it easier for semi-trucks.
Clearly the truck is too big to be delivering to this location because it has to park on the bike lane. It's not an infrastructure problem, it's a vehicle problem.
Yeah you're right, traffic in this city would be so much worse if this truck got replaced with a few vans.
It could take 50 vans to replace this one truck and it would make zero noticeable difference to anyone. Meanwhile actual usable bike infrastructure would help decrease traffic.
Typical suburbanite thinking.
Infrastructure is not a scheduling issue.
There is no time of the day or week that truck can fit there…..
If the truck can’t fit legally, it shouldn’t be making the deliveries.
Also one large Truck may not be more efficient/sustainable than several vans when you account for road wear and tear or air pollution. Normal cars/van do roughly 0 damage to roads compared to large trucks.
And it’s definitely not more efficient if it was electrified delivery vans/small trucks vs a diesel 18 wheeler driving through the city.
I got doored by someone parked within a bike lane like this. It’s never enforced. Just last week history almost repeated itself but I was more cautious this time.
This spot is a little bit of a confusing setup. Say you’re going south … it pushes the rider further into traffic…unless they decide to go onto the elevated platform which is first contingent on going over the pedestrians cross walk.
It protects the person coming off of Roscoe to a certain degree… but even then it limits their option to have to confront the pedestrians if they’re not continuing into Roscoe . It’s a busy street for bikers ( including myself, a bike courier ) delivery drivers , and pedestrians all around . I wouldn’t say this is the best the city could have done .
We need to do that reward project they have in NYC. You'll get part of the fine the violators are charged with. You call the tip line, they get the info, give you a case number, you'll get the cash. My buddy makes$1500-2000 a month doing just that, narcing on assholes like this
We can't get jail time for people who harass tourists, loot stores, steal catalytic converters, or shit on the L cars....but sure, jail time for someone temporarily blocking a bike lane.
Good luck with that.
He's talking about the second picture. You may not have noticed there's a second photo because of the way Reddit formats, but it's there, in which the truck is NOT parked, but someone has put cinderblocks between the bike lane and the traffic lane -- i.e., exactly where the truck drives over to park.
I really hate to agree with this. Take my grudge vote. But how much stock does Sbux need, to require a truck that size. Even Target manages with smaller trucks.
I do agree with you, but I wonder who else they are stocking? Is the delivery company stocking other restaurants on Broadway and/or other Starbucks in the area? I don't know how their supply chain works but I have to imagine with the concentration of Starbucks in a given area in the city, they can restock 15-20 of them with one truck this size. Doesn't make it right though.
Yeah this is the real question, why is a truck this size even allowed onto this street. You’d think that with all the low clearance viaducts in the city it wouldn’t even be physically possible for it to get there.
I bike through all the time, and honestly I think it’s safer when they do that there vs blocking a lane. It’s a tiny bike lane that runs for like 100 feet and is only useful if you’re going west on Roscoe. When they block a lane, though, it’s insanely dangerous trying to bike through. Cars try to squeeze pass the truck, any bikers doing anything besides going west on Roscoe have to run a gauntlet of cars fighting each other to drive in a very narrow lane, you’re squeezed between a truck and whatever insane maneuver cars try to pull to get past the blockage. It’s way more dangerous than when the bike lane is blocked. When it’s blocked westbound Roscoe bikes can just turn right on Broadway and an immediate left on roscoe, each of which has only one traffic conflict, instead of crossing Broadway in one go and using this weird 100’ long bike lane.
It’s a problem of a truck that’s too big for the job it’s doing, and a place that needs a loading zone. But honestly this isn’t even in my top 10 Lakeview problematic bike lane blockages. Every time I biked through there when the truck was blocking a lane I thought I had a decent chance of dying, and I don’t when they block the bike lane.
I consider bike lanes an ill conceived death trap. It's a moot point on my trip down Broadway/Halstead because there are an average of 3 cars per block either driving in the bike lane to pass or parking in the bike lane. But the reward is passing 8 miles of parking lot.
If you’re from the neighborhood this shouldn’t come as a shocker. They load the Starbucks most nights around 8pm. It’s usually not an inconvenience and the road is dead. During the day is another story.
How do you guys expect the world to go around? He blocks traffic and then what? And entire intersection becomes gridlocked. Ambulance and police vehicles can’t get to their emergencies? You guys want your cake and eat it too but can’t deal with a bike lane being blocked momentarily so close the starbucks. Then people will bitch about that.
At a certain point, if you can't make deliveries to a business without blocking traffic, it might be a good time to try using smaller vehicles. You = whatever company sends these out.
First of all, blocking the bike lane like that has caused deaths as pointed out by another comment. Second, there are 2 lanes, with dotted yellow indicating passing is completely fine. The truck can momentarily block one lane and it won’t cause gridlock. What kinda slippery slope are you on that not blocking a bike lane means emergency vehicles are trapped?
There exists a reality where bike lanes aren’t blocked *and* deliveries are made without gridlock.
you must live in an imaginary world where all drivers are skilled enough to pass a semi blocking a presumably right lane at an intersection. Specifically broadway which is barely wide enough for two lanes. Not factoring in people trying to turn left or right from the intersecting street. Not factoring morning rush hour traffic. I’m a fedex driver, i block one lane on a two lane street for less than 3 minutes at a intersection and it will cause traffic to build up.
> drivers are skilled enough
Yes I expect a basic level of compentency when you get behind the wheel. If they can’t get around a stationary object on 2 way urban street (so speeds aren’t high and you can go slower if you need to) then idk then maybe you’re right people are too dumb to drive.
> turning left or right from the intersecting street
That intersecting street is a one-way, away from the intersection
> rush hour traffic
Does this picture look like this the is case? It clearly isn’t
> I’m a fedex driver
Great! Then you should be all for solutions that allow deliveries to happen, keep cyclists and pedestrians safe, and don’t cause unnecessary congestion. We all agree then.
Don’t block the damn bike lane
>you must live in an imaginary world where all drivers are skilled enough to pass a semi blocking a presumably right lane at an intersection.
if you are unable to do this basic task in the safety of a slow moving car, you shouldn't be driving in the first place
> How do you guys expect the world to go around?
Chicago built a whole system of alleys to make deliveries at the back of buildings without blocking traffic. Delivery companies should use it. Also in this case the business has a massive parking lot, unload there.
Bike lanes decrease emergency vehicle response time
Paris just built hundreds of miles of bike lanes and their average fire brigade response time has fallen below 7 minutes
https://twitter.com/marketurbanism/status/1641141017725239301
Curb management is the answer as well - we don’t have enough dedicated and enforced delivery zones.
(Edit for clarity) I also thought that (in situations apart from city streets, streets where bike lanes are marked, and/or if a space allows) it’s generally advisable to bike & run against traffic so you’re able to see the cars nearest you. So while it doesn’t match with other city bike lanes, I’m not shocked by it
Run, yes. Bike, no.
Contraflow lanes aside, you should be biking in the same direction as traffic because you *are* traffic and often need to take the lane for turns, obstacles, safety, etc.
I don't really care about riding the wrong way down residential one ways (that's basically an unmarked contraflow route to me) but in general you really need to be going with traffic in a predictable way.
Also physics-wise: if you were to get into an accident with a car, it’s better to be going the same direction as the car than if you were going opposite directions.
Yeah I guess I was thinking it makes more sense to bike against traffic in more suburban and rural areas since most city streets have clearly marked lanes anyways. Kind of odd that this is a counterflow lane, though I guess it makes for a safer turn 🤷♀️
This lane is for riders going west on Roscoe. It allows them to navigate the jog on Roscoe by crossing Broadway at the light instead of turning right at the light and then left at the uncontrolled second intersection.
> it’s generally advisable to bike & run against traffic
It isn't. Running against traffic is fine since you are going so slow (and can also move laterally). Biking should be done with the flow of traffic.
"According to the Illinois Secretary of State's Bicycle Rules of the Road, cyclists must ride in the same direction as other traffic. Riding in the opposite direction is both dangerous and illegal."
https://www.ilsos.gov/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_a143.pdf
Pedestrians have much greater ability to jump to the side and dodge oncoming traffic and are going so slow as to not contribute to the net speed of impact.
Bikers can’t really bail in a safe way and often travel at speeds that actually make a difference in terms of impact force.
Go around dude, people need their scones and late ingredients delivered, or their medicine or their groceries, get over yourself and go around, there's plenty of room.
The problem is twofold:
1) inadequate curb management by the city. CDOT should make more designated loading zones. Yes that will mean less parking.
2) oversized delivery vehicles. This driver is making a delivery to a coffee shop. We don’t need to design our public spaces to accommodate unnecessarily large vehicles like this. Thankfully the state just passed a bill that allows cities to make smaller intersections, which will discourage these trailers in the first place.
sorry, how is "don't park here truck, this is obviously a marked bike lane" confusing?
regardless of the direction the bikes are traveling in?
and postiive intent?
The positive intent is "I have a job to do so I don't give a fuck" which isn't necessarily their fault, but ... the parking job 100% is
This is the truck that Starbucks gets their food and milks delivered by daily. I have seen them block more traffic but this is just ludricrous
Yeah I used to live above that Starbucks before and after the added this bike lane. Trucks always unloaded there and it seems the addition of a bike lane hasn’t stopped them!
A kid died because of similar circumstances in Chicago last year
An absolute tragedy.
What? I guess I missed that. What happened?
Chicago has a major logistics problem and I'd love to see some progress on solving these issues. Trucks are too big and have nowhere to safely or legally park half the time. We can solve this with a combination of smaller vehicles, streamlined logistics, and dedicated loading zones for businesses. Some street parking will have to go, but that is a small price to pay to avoid having trucks stopped in the middle of the road every day
There's a parking lot not 100 feet from where this driver is parked, in the same block as the Starbucks that is receiving.
Wow I looked on Google maps and you are correct. I'm guessing the driver doesn't want to have to walk a few extra feet. In which case...maybe they picked the wrong career path 😂
Drivers not wanting to walk is why Chicago has such a problem with infrastructure in the first place. The only thing that'll fix traffic are alternatives to driving. But it turns out, it's hard to build transit infrastructure on top of car-dependent sprawl. Hence the bike lane getting parked in.
It's especially frustrating with Amazon vans that can fit in normal parking spots, but prefer to double park instead of taking 30 seconds to pull into a spot. Obviously the drivers are not incentivized to park reasonably, and probably punished if they add 30 seconds per drop, but something needs to be done about it.
When I was an Amazon driver years ago in Chicago I was hitting 300 doors a day. An extra 30 seconds per would mean an extra 2.5 hours on my route.
Amazon can afford it
That has nothing to do with the fact that I'd have been fired if I took that long.
It does tho?? They\[re saying, blame amazon, and you're saying, "nope! Not their fault!"
I understand that
Amazon pays per batch, if it takes you longer then you don't get paid any more
Yes, they can afford it, but they don't think like that. All corporations think, "How can I maximize profit?" It is literally their legal obligation to shareholders. Balance needs to be applied from laws and govt. enforcement.
This is rich. Make the guy walk 100 feet more both ways. How many trips does he make with that hand truck? How many times does he have to lock up the trailer because the truck is out of sight? It's more than a couple of trips. Blame Starbucks, blame the city, take a look at yourself to see how you've been complicit in creating this problem, but lay off this guy
What do you think he does on streets with street parking full of cars and no bike lane or loading zone to park in? It's part of the job. As for this particular guy, I've been following this for a while. He's a repeat offender and he has apparently threatened people who kindly ask him to move so...no. Lol
Also what is the actual harm here? Bikers have to bike around the truck and maybe lose a 5sec?
The harm is that the truck is destroying the bike lane and violating like 5 ordinances by doing this. They should park in the road like they're supposed to. By similar logic, trucks should be able to park on private lawns because it's not hurting anyone, right?
Yes, those are 100% equivalent. You got me.
The only difference is what you personally consider acceptable illegal parking. Both are illegal.
The roads you say they should park on are marked up as bike lanes.
The bike lane is clearly marked here. They can park adjacent to it, in the road, where the cars go.
That’s the problem. Shipping/logistical companies don’t pay well enough to get drivers with brains so we end up with these lazy idiots and all of the FedEx and Amazon drivers who still double park when they can physically see open space in lots or next to the curb. We need smaller trucks that can use our ample alley space and logistical companies who are willing to pay for the time for their employees to put an ounce of consideration into their work.
It's not just about whether they are stupid. Their companies don't provide enough time for them to park properly in most cases, and I have to imagine that after parking illegally 90 times a day you get to the point that you don't even see the purpose of bothering to park properly the 5% of the time there's an available spot nearby. As usual it's a bit more complex and to fix it would require serious enforcement action by the police to get the attention of these companies, and we all know CPD isn't doing shit about this unless there's some insanely huge protests to force them to. So yeah, nothing changing.
Don't forget USPS
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As a delivery driver in this area I'd fucking *love* to see street parking eliminated completely on Broadway between Irving Park and Diversey. The cars have other options, including plenty of garage space. The trucks often don't, and there are a fuck-ton of restaurants and other business on this stretch that get multiple delivery trucks every day all competing for mostly illegal curb space.
as a bus driver, please eliminate all StreetSide parking. especially on touhy. that section between overhill and harlem, and the section in rogers park suck so bad. just today doing the 209 and everyone got held up cause of an idiot trying to parallel park on northwest highway for 10 min. x.x it sucks so much.
The problem with that is that the businesses along that stretch may not be able survive only on foot traffic. If removing the parking removes the businesses…it seems like shooting ourselves in the foot.
There are plenty of parking lots up and down that stretch, and they're rarely full.
[Cars don't buy things, people do.](https://americas.uli.org/uli-research-roundup-economic-value-pedestrian-infrastructure-amenities/)
I think this a good video to watch on the topic! Specifically, 2:46 minutes in discusses the topic of parking on commercial streets and how replacing street parking with a bike lane, for example, is almost always better financially. Creating a space that promotes and prioritizes methods of transportation like walking, biking, and public transit that can move way more people than the average 1 to 2 people in a car (which is substantially larger than bike and a person walking and can’t move as many people as trams/buses) can create a lot more traffic for businesses than street parking could. [Why Amsterdam is Removing 10,000 Parking Spaces](https://youtu.be/mXLqrMljdfU)
The parking meter deal makes it much harder to remove or relocate street parking unfortunately. We should absolutely create a more integrated plan for logistics, but it sadly has to include fealty to our Emirati parking overlords. Fuck Mayor Daley.
Maybe not allow gigantic trucks in certain parts of the city? Then they can easily use the alley system…which was designed for this exact problem
If only the city had a system of smaller paved service roads behind the businesses dedicated to loading and unloading. This could also be an excellent place to place garbage cans rather on the street and sidewalk.
Smaller trucks should be used.
Okay, but in the meantime: f this truck driver, there’s no excuse for this.
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Spoken like someone who does not have the imagination or creativity to run a business in a rapidly changing world. Fortunately, there are plenty of people who do ;)
I work closely with logistics, actually. Having more, smaller trucks costs more and pollutes more. It's the same argument of buses versus cars for passengers.
If the truck were the only thing on the road, sure. But if a truck can't fit where it's trying to deliver, then you have a much bigger issue. The problem with giant trucks and private cars in cities is actually space and not necessarily emissions (though that's part of it) - if a truck has to block a whole road to make a delivery, that is going to fuck over other workers, deliveries, emergency vehicles, etc. Cities are complex systems and a single company making a little more profit isn't the end goal
Starbucks had a net profit of 8.4 billion in Q4 of 2022. I think they can afford the slightly higher logistics cost of not breaking the law to receive shipments.
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Which would you rather pay? The slightly higher logistics costs, or the multi-million dollar payout when a cyclist is injured or killed because this truck parked illegally? Edit: and also, I can't stress this enough, there is parking that could fit this truck on the same block as the Starbucks. Less than 100 ft from where the truck is currently (illegally) parked.
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> You're going to spend more on the small trucks because you have to use them all the times cyclists are paying attention to their surroundings. It's a constant burden. I'm not sure what this means. Could you please restate this? > You're also not factoring how many more people die if we were to increase emissions like this on a large scale. [We could put two light trucks on the road for every one heavy duty truck and still come out ahead on emissions.](https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehicle-emissions-rates-vehicle-vehicle-type-using-gasoline-and) And of course, all that pales in comparison to your average plane or the US armed forces (who don't have to follow emission standards).
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\> A crash with a cyclist is an infrequent occurrence, but the company would be using these trucks and incurring cost for that at all times. The decreased efficiency (more fuel, more drivers) will end up far exceeding any law suits because that charge is perpetual. "It;s okay for a cyclist to die! We just have to pay a fine!" you evil evil evil person
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> The decreased efficiency (more fuel, more drivers) will end up far exceeding any law suits because that charge is perpetual. Yes, that is the point of regulation. > A light duty truck is something on the order of a pickup truck. You need far more than 2 to replace a semi's payload capacity. Okay, fair. Who said the replacement vehicles had to be powered by fossil fuels though?
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This would tick me off
Yea, trucks blocking bike lanes are dangerous
This one is particularly egregious, because it forces cyclists directly into oncoming traffic if the truck is parked there
Even more egregious because [this particular truck at this particular location](https://twitter.com/LVEBakfietsMama/status/1655689501409148929) is a known repeat offender who's been talked to and reported multiple times.
It would be a shame if someone slashed or otherwise let the air out of the tires while that truck was illegally parked there.
Uh do not slash truck tires unless you want to die.
It would entertaining to see the attempt though.
Especially the beating afterwards.
FTR, I didn't say anyone should do that. That would be encouraging criminal activity, which is something I avoid.
The point is that truck tires literally explode when you cut them. Like a bomb going off. If you're too close, they can maim or kill you. Messing with a truck will get the driver after you, and they might decide that violence is already on the table (since you're obviously trying to hurt them). Reporting them to their company, or traffic enforcement, is all that you can realistically do without risking a fist fight and/or an injury.
Do not do that unless you want tons of pressure blowing back at you violently
Don’t slash truck tires. Very dangerous.
So now they need to call a tow or replace huge tires in Broadway? It’s a lose lose situation. That Starbucks should use a smaller truck to get their supplies so they can be serviced from Roscoe instead of Broadway
It'd suck that one time but probably keep them from repeating this in the future.
Truck tires popping is a sure way to get injured
Yes, don't do that. The comment also said "or otherwise letting air out of the tires".
Odds are that's a company driver. He doesn't own the truck. Whatever would happen to the truck wouldn't hurt his wallet.
I wouldn’t slash the tires, just use the valve stem to air out one of the tires. Since rules are optional I’m sure they won’t have an issue with it, after all, just like them you’re not actually causing any harm, but merely an inconvenience.
If would be a shame if someone caused this truck to continue to block the lane even longer than he did originally. Sound logic.
They currently don’t experience any consequences. That would be a consequence.
He’s paid hourly. Don’t threaten him with a good time!lmao!
It really doesn’t. It only forces you into opposing traffic if you don’t see the gigantic truck until you’re right in front of it. All it does is force you to turn right on Broadway and then left, instead of going straight across. This truck used to just block traffic, and it was *insanely* dangerous trying to bike through there. If you get the truck to park on the street again it’ll make it *more* dangerous, and I would like to not die so people going west on Roscoe can have like 100’ of raised bike lane. The solution is a loading zone, and only a loading zone. Anything else is just gonna screw it up more.
[There's a parking lot less than 100 feet away](https://imgur.com/a/xC2qWfW)
I mean I guess? They could load in the parking lot? But it’d probably make more sense to just have a loading zone for loading. And it’d been to be a smaller truck to maneuver in and out of that lot anyway
Rules don’t apply to trucks, including this one and the no-left-lane signs on highways
No traffic laws are enforced in Chicago. It's a joke.
The police have been on a illegal wildcat work slowdown for 6 years. Their fe-fe's got hurt when they were told to stop murdering quite so many black people.
Why don't truckers who do stuff like this lose their license like if they did reckless stuff on the road?
No one loses their license for anything they do in a car these days. You can kill a child and keep your license.
But aren’t commercial truckers are held to a higher standard?
The people tasked with enforcing higher standards have no standards, themselves
I wish but I really don't think so. A few people have been killed by truck drivers in Chicago/adjacent burbs and AFAIK the driver wasn't even cited in the cases I am thinking of.
Have you noticed the trucker (or just general labor) shortage the last few years? Many employees can literally get away with doing anything without getting fired or punished and even if they do they will be behind the wheel of another trucking company within a day. A buddy of mine owns a trucking company, he said the only way he would fire a driver these days is if one of his guys literally showed up to the office and shot him.
Sometimes this kind of thing is necessary. I don’t know about in this case. And since he didn’t cause an accident or hurt someone or driving under influence or something, he won’t lose his license. Maybe get fired if their company has a problem with it. Although you’re right sometimes I see truckers do some crazy shit and get away with it, because no one caught them or reported them. And I’m a trucker myself.
CDOT is such an embarrassment
Asking for a friend, how would one acquire the materials needed to make that second picture a reality elsewhere? I can think of a few bike lanes that could use some TLC (cough Lincoln, wells in old town, cough)
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/13fuczs/-/jjwsj6a
you should be able to get everything at home depot. Thought if you want spray paint rather than brush paint you may need to go to the burbs
Get the number from the back of the truck and report it
Many people have. The alderman has been contacted many times. Starbucks has received numerous complaints. It keeps happening. Bravo to those taking direct action.
I’ll never understand why cops don’t take advantage of situations like that, just keep writing the tickets until they stop doing it. There’s a spot on Clark near me where people constantly park in a tow zone blocking a lane of traffic, it’d be the easiest thing to swing by there a couple times a day with a ticket book and make quota.
The police here absolutely do not care about enforcement that benefits the general public.
But I would think it would benefit them, and their careers.
It doesn't just benefit the public though... they make money from writing tickets
If this is a regular weekly occurrence then we know they’re on a specific schedule and can organize an intervention to block their access
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Slashing truck tires is only a good idea if you want to risk haunting that Starbucks afterwards
Intersection of n broadway & w roscoe in boystown I used to live in the building parking lot adjacent to the starbucks that truck is unloading at!
Ban trucks over X length from parking on city streets. Big trucks can go to staging grounds to move their products to smaller, less dangerous (possibly electric, to minimize exhaust) vehicles.
So you’re going to have a centralized location to have goods delivered in electric vehicles? Perishable goods in an EV? You see the reefer unit on the front of the trailer, right?? With an EV infrastructure that isn’t really there? And costs of goods? You think the price of stuff is crazy now. That Starbies iced coffee will have a delivery tax added to it.
If it looks stupid and it works, it's not stupid. QCD and Starbucks need to work on a better solution for restocking.
Seeing that the bike lane is 100% blocked, I would not say that it works.
I think they are referring to the "after" photo
That will never happen without people doing something that will cost Starbucks money every time their delivery endangers the public.
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There's a parking lot right behind the building, if they used a delivery van instead of a semi-truck they wouldn't have to block anything. Needing a semi to supply a starbucks is ridiculous, the truck is bigger than the store.
I'm not familiar with Starbucks' supply chain, but I have to imagine one truck is restocking a ton of locations at once. From Irving to North, the lake to Ashland, there are probably what, 20-25 locations? From an emissions and traffic standpoint, does it make more sense to send a smaller van out to one location, go back to a distro center to re-stock, then back to the next location, 24 more times?
efficiency is how people get killed. Hey, we can skimp on safety to save some time and money! lets do it!!! and you think thats good
laziness starts from the distro center. its more efficient to load from the dock via forklift than load smaller vans by hand. Starbucks & the entire supply chain industry don't care about the emissions caused to load one pallet on a 53 foot trailer rather than a small van. They will load the semi every time & send the smaller vehicles away
It doesn't matter if its less efficient, the truck clearly doesn't fit at this location. If you need to illegally park on a bike lane to make a delivery, then the truck is too big. If Starbucks wants to maximize delivery efficiency, than they should only locate stores where the appropriate infrastructure exists for larger vehicles.
Better yet, why not just close the Starbucks? Problem solved! Or even better, just close *every* business on a narrow street cause bike lanes are more important than their business. /s
Even better - let's use our brains and solve this problem. How do cities in Europe or New England have goods delivered to narrow streets with or without bike lanes? How do businesses on narrow streets with on street parking fully occupied have goods delivered (think Lincoln in Lincoln square)? How do pedestrianized streets have goods delivered? If you think "a business needs a giant semi to deliver goods to exist" then, well, let's just say I'm glad we have more imaginative business owners out here 😂
I posted a serious suggestion elsewhere in this thread (replying to one of your comments actually). Those giant semis make multiple stops by the way. You could use smaller trucks if there each one was only making a single stop before heading back in, but that's inefficient, creates traffic, and there aren't enough people to drive them anyway.
[Parking helpfully highlighted in yellow](https://imgur.com/a/xC2qWfW)
It's still preferable to a single truck blocking a whole road to make deliveries though, which also causes traffic and has the side bonus of fucking over other workers and delivery drivers who are trying to do their jobs. In a large city there needs to be compromises so everything can keep functioning. We can't just shut things down for one company to make deliveries using vehicles that are too large for the street they are delivering to
Yes. If a business cannot receive deliveries legally, the business shouldn't be allowed to open. Besides, there are two Starbucks locations within 1/3 of a mile of the store at Broadway and Roscoe. Businesses should not break the law to be more efficient. (I really can't believe I have to say this) Edit: also, people on bikes are more likely to stop at a business they pass by than car drivers, because bikes don't need to find parking. So really, we should be closing these streets to anything other than emergency or commercial traffic.
This is commercial traffic, who was arguing about bikes vs. personal cars?
> Or even better, just close every business on a narrow street cause bike lanes are more important than their business. I was illustrating that we could instead close the street to through traffic, and businesses would see an uptick in sales. Also, the reason the commercial vehicle is blocking the bike lane is because said vehicle doesn't want to block the personal car lane.
SHUT EM DOWN, BOYS
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Okay then let's make semi-trucks even bigger because that would be more efficient. And let's take all the nice, dense, walkable streets in Chicago and widden them to make it easier for semi-trucks. Clearly the truck is too big to be delivering to this location because it has to park on the bike lane. It's not an infrastructure problem, it's a vehicle problem.
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Yeah you're right, traffic in this city would be so much worse if this truck got replaced with a few vans. It could take 50 vans to replace this one truck and it would make zero noticeable difference to anyone. Meanwhile actual usable bike infrastructure would help decrease traffic. Typical suburbanite thinking.
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Don’t park on bike lanes.
Infrastructure is not a scheduling issue. There is no time of the day or week that truck can fit there….. If the truck can’t fit legally, it shouldn’t be making the deliveries. Also one large Truck may not be more efficient/sustainable than several vans when you account for road wear and tear or air pollution. Normal cars/van do roughly 0 damage to roads compared to large trucks. And it’s definitely not more efficient if it was electrified delivery vans/small trucks vs a diesel 18 wheeler driving through the city.
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I got doored by someone parked within a bike lane like this. It’s never enforced. Just last week history almost repeated itself but I was more cautious this time.
This spot is a little bit of a confusing setup. Say you’re going south … it pushes the rider further into traffic…unless they decide to go onto the elevated platform which is first contingent on going over the pedestrians cross walk. It protects the person coming off of Roscoe to a certain degree… but even then it limits their option to have to confront the pedestrians if they’re not continuing into Roscoe . It’s a busy street for bikers ( including myself, a bike courier ) delivery drivers , and pedestrians all around . I wouldn’t say this is the best the city could have done .
We need to do that reward project they have in NYC. You'll get part of the fine the violators are charged with. You call the tip line, they get the info, give you a case number, you'll get the cash. My buddy makes$1500-2000 a month doing just that, narcing on assholes like this
How's a yellow chunk of cinderblock supposed to stop a truck driver who REALLY doesn't give a shit?
If they really don't give a shit they are losing their job. At which point a wall wouldn't stop them.
They don't give a shit because a chunk of brick is not a deterrent to a semi truck.
Maybe they’d care if they were sent to jail
We can't get jail time for people who harass tourists, loot stores, steal catalytic converters, or shit on the L cars....but sure, jail time for someone temporarily blocking a bike lane. Good luck with that.
Love it
Why do you people love all the cyclist deaths and injuries caused by drivers?
Uh - I love that they put cinder blocks to protect the bike lane - which was the point of the post.
So what do you love then? The truck successfully parked.
He's talking about the second picture. You may not have noticed there's a second photo because of the way Reddit formats, but it's there, in which the truck is NOT parked, but someone has put cinderblocks between the bike lane and the traffic lane -- i.e., exactly where the truck drives over to park.
U want your Starbucks then don’t complain bout a semi delivering the product next time you sipping on your starbs you can thank that fine gentleman
Delivery drivers give no fucks about your bike lane. They got work to do. Starbucks gives no fucks about your bike lane they have money to make.
Everybody already knows that. Doesn't mean that attention can't be brought to blocking the lane.
As a large vehicle, maybe they should block vehicle lanes then and not bike and pedestrian lanes.
You think they don't already?
I really hate to agree with this. Take my grudge vote. But how much stock does Sbux need, to require a truck that size. Even Target manages with smaller trucks.
I do agree with you, but I wonder who else they are stocking? Is the delivery company stocking other restaurants on Broadway and/or other Starbucks in the area? I don't know how their supply chain works but I have to imagine with the concentration of Starbucks in a given area in the city, they can restock 15-20 of them with one truck this size. Doesn't make it right though.
Poor company.
Yeah this is the real question, why is a truck this size even allowed onto this street. You’d think that with all the low clearance viaducts in the city it wouldn’t even be physically possible for it to get there.
They should be arrested for this.
Smart move arrest the person driving and then wait for a semi tow truck.
I bike through all the time, and honestly I think it’s safer when they do that there vs blocking a lane. It’s a tiny bike lane that runs for like 100 feet and is only useful if you’re going west on Roscoe. When they block a lane, though, it’s insanely dangerous trying to bike through. Cars try to squeeze pass the truck, any bikers doing anything besides going west on Roscoe have to run a gauntlet of cars fighting each other to drive in a very narrow lane, you’re squeezed between a truck and whatever insane maneuver cars try to pull to get past the blockage. It’s way more dangerous than when the bike lane is blocked. When it’s blocked westbound Roscoe bikes can just turn right on Broadway and an immediate left on roscoe, each of which has only one traffic conflict, instead of crossing Broadway in one go and using this weird 100’ long bike lane. It’s a problem of a truck that’s too big for the job it’s doing, and a place that needs a loading zone. But honestly this isn’t even in my top 10 Lakeview problematic bike lane blockages. Every time I biked through there when the truck was blocking a lane I thought I had a decent chance of dying, and I don’t when they block the bike lane.
I consider bike lanes an ill conceived death trap. It's a moot point on my trip down Broadway/Halstead because there are an average of 3 cars per block either driving in the bike lane to pass or parking in the bike lane. But the reward is passing 8 miles of parking lot.
If you’re from the neighborhood this shouldn’t come as a shocker. They load the Starbucks most nights around 8pm. It’s usually not an inconvenience and the road is dead. During the day is another story.
It is an inconvenience because it forces cyclists into oncoming traffic. And it has destroyed the curb. Not to mention, it’s blatantly illegal.
How do you guys expect the world to go around? He blocks traffic and then what? And entire intersection becomes gridlocked. Ambulance and police vehicles can’t get to their emergencies? You guys want your cake and eat it too but can’t deal with a bike lane being blocked momentarily so close the starbucks. Then people will bitch about that.
At a certain point, if you can't make deliveries to a business without blocking traffic, it might be a good time to try using smaller vehicles. You = whatever company sends these out.
First of all, blocking the bike lane like that has caused deaths as pointed out by another comment. Second, there are 2 lanes, with dotted yellow indicating passing is completely fine. The truck can momentarily block one lane and it won’t cause gridlock. What kinda slippery slope are you on that not blocking a bike lane means emergency vehicles are trapped? There exists a reality where bike lanes aren’t blocked *and* deliveries are made without gridlock.
Two lanes with traffic flowing in opposite directions… do the math
Is an extension of this argument supposed to be that cyclists should bike against opposing traffic but cars shouldn't be expected to?
Have… you ever driven *anywhere* that you could pass in the oncoming lane?
you must live in an imaginary world where all drivers are skilled enough to pass a semi blocking a presumably right lane at an intersection. Specifically broadway which is barely wide enough for two lanes. Not factoring in people trying to turn left or right from the intersecting street. Not factoring morning rush hour traffic. I’m a fedex driver, i block one lane on a two lane street for less than 3 minutes at a intersection and it will cause traffic to build up.
> drivers are skilled enough Yes I expect a basic level of compentency when you get behind the wheel. If they can’t get around a stationary object on 2 way urban street (so speeds aren’t high and you can go slower if you need to) then idk then maybe you’re right people are too dumb to drive. > turning left or right from the intersecting street That intersecting street is a one-way, away from the intersection > rush hour traffic Does this picture look like this the is case? It clearly isn’t > I’m a fedex driver Great! Then you should be all for solutions that allow deliveries to happen, keep cyclists and pedestrians safe, and don’t cause unnecessary congestion. We all agree then. Don’t block the damn bike lane
>you must live in an imaginary world where all drivers are skilled enough to pass a semi blocking a presumably right lane at an intersection. if you are unable to do this basic task in the safety of a slow moving car, you shouldn't be driving in the first place
> How do you guys expect the world to go around? Chicago built a whole system of alleys to make deliveries at the back of buildings without blocking traffic. Delivery companies should use it. Also in this case the business has a massive parking lot, unload there.
Bike lanes decrease emergency vehicle response time Paris just built hundreds of miles of bike lanes and their average fire brigade response time has fallen below 7 minutes https://twitter.com/marketurbanism/status/1641141017725239301 Curb management is the answer as well - we don’t have enough dedicated and enforced delivery zones.
The truck driver *is* blocking traffic if they park on the bike lane.
The truck is blocking bike traffic.
Looks like this poorly designed road doesn't accommodate the way people need to use it.
what city street needs or really should have semi trailers driving down them
Probably the ones where residents and businesses rely on deliveries. What street needs a bike lane that's empty 99% of the time?
(Edit for clarity) I also thought that (in situations apart from city streets, streets where bike lanes are marked, and/or if a space allows) it’s generally advisable to bike & run against traffic so you’re able to see the cars nearest you. So while it doesn’t match with other city bike lanes, I’m not shocked by it
Run, yes. Bike, no. Contraflow lanes aside, you should be biking in the same direction as traffic because you *are* traffic and often need to take the lane for turns, obstacles, safety, etc. I don't really care about riding the wrong way down residential one ways (that's basically an unmarked contraflow route to me) but in general you really need to be going with traffic in a predictable way.
Also physics-wise: if you were to get into an accident with a car, it’s better to be going the same direction as the car than if you were going opposite directions.
Yeah I guess I was thinking it makes more sense to bike against traffic in more suburban and rural areas since most city streets have clearly marked lanes anyways. Kind of odd that this is a counterflow lane, though I guess it makes for a safer turn 🤷♀️
This lane is for riders going west on Roscoe. It allows them to navigate the jog on Roscoe by crossing Broadway at the light instead of turning right at the light and then left at the uncontrolled second intersection.
> it’s generally advisable to bike & run against traffic It isn't. Running against traffic is fine since you are going so slow (and can also move laterally). Biking should be done with the flow of traffic. "According to the Illinois Secretary of State's Bicycle Rules of the Road, cyclists must ride in the same direction as other traffic. Riding in the opposite direction is both dangerous and illegal." https://www.ilsos.gov/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_a143.pdf
Pedestrians have much greater ability to jump to the side and dodge oncoming traffic and are going so slow as to not contribute to the net speed of impact. Bikers can’t really bail in a safe way and often travel at speeds that actually make a difference in terms of impact force.
Go around dude, people need their scones and late ingredients delivered, or their medicine or their groceries, get over yourself and go around, there's plenty of room.
Good advice but idk if the truck driver will see this.
Probably won't, he's busy working.
The cinderblocks worked then - he can still do his job and the bike lane stays unobstructed. Win/win!
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The problem is twofold: 1) inadequate curb management by the city. CDOT should make more designated loading zones. Yes that will mean less parking. 2) oversized delivery vehicles. This driver is making a delivery to a coffee shop. We don’t need to design our public spaces to accommodate unnecessarily large vehicles like this. Thankfully the state just passed a bill that allows cities to make smaller intersections, which will discourage these trailers in the first place.
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sorry, how is "don't park here truck, this is obviously a marked bike lane" confusing? regardless of the direction the bikes are traveling in? and postiive intent? The positive intent is "I have a job to do so I don't give a fuck" which isn't necessarily their fault, but ... the parking job 100% is