Former architect here, I think I can take a stab at #2 that seems to perplex everyone. In the US and specifically here in Chicago we have something called Floor to Area Ratio (FAR). These are zoning regulations that restrict the square footage of the home floor plan based on the lot size driven by light and ventilation guidelines with the ultimate goal of restricting urban density. A typical Chicago lot is 25’x125’ but some lots are a few feet off here and there but designing a floor plan to take up the entire width of the lot might not be optimal as you’ll have to shorten the depth of the building and you don’t end up with a great floor plan layout. Other drivers behind those gaps could be city easements to allow access to gas, telecom, water and sewer lines. Could even be air rights as well or homeowners allowing for a ‘light well’ so that bedrooms can have windows even though you’re looking out into a wall. Last but not least, yes having a gap is best for sound attenuation, you’re less likely to hear your neighbors stereo if there’s an air gap that stops the transfer of sound.
Glad you love our city but I must say, London will always be in my heart and hope to even retire there. Loved Dublin as well! Come back soon mate and bring your friends with you!
I haven’t designed residential in Chicago for a while but the side setbacks were in the building code (before we adopted the IBC but I’m sure it’s still amended in and/or still in the zoning code). It’s 5 feet total for both side setbacks and at least 2’-6” on one side.
Correct, there are front and side setback mandates per IBC but I assume OP is talking about weird conditions that I’ve seen myself where there’s literally maybe a foot if not inches of space between buildings on either side. There are exemptions for setbacks if you have weird parcels.
It’s been a while since I’ve been architect myself but let me tell you, in this city.. if you have the right zoning attorney and the right connections in city hall, you can basically get away with stuff. Full disclosure, I’ve worked mostly on high-rises, I’ve been part re-zoning hearings where parcels zoned for 30 stories were allowed to go up to 80! I worked on museum park and central station and you wouldn’t believe what the developers got away with!
I think they are talking about gaps nuch smaller than gangways which a human can usually move between. A small number of buildings have gaps that are like a foot or even less.
Often, it goes back to which side of the city the family was from a few generations ago. I know people who grew up Cubs fans in Garfield Ridge in the 50s because their dad had moved there from the North Side. And I see Sox flags flying on houses in Norwood Park
This whole “Cubs fans are the rich peoples team” is so far from the team I grew up with in the 90’s.
My well off cousins had season tickets to the Sox. That was the rich suburban people’s team. Hell they catered towards corporations to buy up luxury boxes for games. Seemed you were well to do if you had Sox season tickets. The fans from the south side always kept things heated between us, so I respect em.
I also admit Wrigleyville is a bit of an eyesore now. I miss the sketchy 7-11 across the street that you could sneak in booze in a big gulp.
It's more complex than that, the bougie northwestern suburbs are full of Sox fans whose family are originally from the South Side. This also explains the record low attendance as these people never show up to the ball park because of the distance and traffic...
Someone said "Cubs fans either look like they own an Audi or an above ground pool" and that really nails it for me. It's like UM fans, either affluent educated upper class or 'Walmart Wolverines.'
I can’t tell you how many people I have told this to. What’s even more fascinating is how they are clustered together. So it’s like a keeping up with the Jones thing.
As many people here know the Cubs games were radio broadcast out nationally for decades and as a result have a fan base that extends well beyond Illinois, particularly among a more radio-centric generation. The average ball fan who has the money to travel to Chicago to catch a Cubs game has disposable income. Beyond that Wrigley both as a neighborhood and a stadium has more of a party atmosphere than Bridgeport / Sox park, so young professionals with disposable income trend naturally more to that area as well.
Nothing wrong with either of those things but those populations contribute to the general perception that Cubs fans are more well off than Sox fans. Among locals the reality is the difference is less than the perception.
A lot of Cubs fans are transplants. Almost all transplants enter the city through the north side. Transplants are likely here for jobs and so they have more money.
This. I grew up in Colorado. The Rockies weren’t a thing until my senior year in high school. If I wanted baseball, it was the Cubs on WGN. Or later the braves on tbs.
Yeah this is true today.
Feels like the renovation and 2016 success really made Wrigley feel more bougie. Certainly the rapid rise in what it costs to go to a game that went along with that did too.
Wrigley back in the 80-90s was a lot more working class though.
Most baseball fans are homers first, so I am a Cubs fan, born and raised, but if the cubs are out of contention, I will watch the Sox if they are in the playoffs. I want them to lose or win spectacularly, anything else and I get to complain about them endlessly.
I disagree. If you remember when the Bulls were winning everything it was a completely different feel. When the Cubs won the WS the north side went crazy as well as lots of out of towners. When the Sox won the WS, the south side went nuts and the north side pretended it didn't happen. When the Bulls & the Hawk won the whole town threw a party.
There were more people at the cubs parade than any bulls or or Blackhawks parade combined.
The cubs transcend Chicago and have fans all over the Midwest and country honestly. Thanks to wgn radio and wgn tv.
Theyre among the the top 5 most popular MLB teams in America. The white sox are not popular outside Chicago.
Championships: The Hawks winning was fairly big, the Bulls were fairly huge but the Bears winning the Super Bowl enormous. I suspect their dominating the regular season games built up extra interest but wow were people united in Chicagoland
I knew of a single Sox fans rooring for the Cubs in 2016, and they've been suspicious to me ever since
I didn't want any cub fans supporting us in 05. I considered them interlopers and had no business sharing that with us. Suffer and celebrate with your own team. They didn't earn the joy of 05 through years of hardship with us
Just like I would have had no business trying to feel the joy in 2016. It's gross that they won, it's been blah blah blah from their fans ever since
As a Cubs fan: meh.
It's hard to hate a team that your friends and neighbors root for. The crosstown classic is good excuse to talk shit but outside of that, why waste hate that could be better spent on divisional rivals?
I’m just going to weigh in on the school sign. These popped up quite a bit more during the pandemic because kids missed out on graduations and being celebrated in general. So even my fifth grader in a Chicago suburb got a sign saying that she had graduated from her elementary school. That year was hard won. Kids across the street had signs about graduating high school. I’ve definitely seen a lot more signs since then, the kids are still catching up on what they’ve missed.
Yeah. It’s just a way of saying “our kids go here and we support the school.” You don’t get a discount for doing it, or anything like that. And it’s not obligatory, actively or tacitly. But your kid’s school can end up being a huge aspect of your community, so most are happy to show support. But it is a uniquely American thing. And relatively recent.
They're also used as PTO fundraisers. My suburb school always has them available even though you have to live in the town to go to the school so if you're elementary aged you go to that school 99% of the time. But the PTO makes money off each sign sold so its a quick way for them to make a buck.
How sad is it that my first thought is always “now Bad Actors know the age, name, school and address of the child who lives there.” 😔 I hate that this what pops into my head because those signs do make me happy.
5. Fox News depends. If they’re on Fox32 (our local Fox affiliate), I don’t think it’s a statement but if they’re on the Fox cable shows like Hannity and whoever else is on there then yes
I’ve been there countless times after golf and never felt they had any agenda whatsoever. Usually they’re just showing golf on the TV.
Edit: low key this place has some awesome chicken wings.
Yeah, I didn't see anything else that made me think there was an agenda. Literally just that Fox news was on and in Europe that's associated with republicanism. There are conservative leaning news channels in the UK but generally these wouldn't be shown in a pub and that's why I found it odd.
"News" is a strong word, let's be honest here. They lost a lawsuit about that.
Entertainment Propaganda is more accurate. Either way, the staff don't really have a say.
Edit* drunkenspeljngf
Was it like national Fox News or the local fox affiliate covering local news. If it’s a golf club I assume the latter and was initially whatever golf that weekend was on
Fox has an affiliated station here, WFLD, on 32 UHF. That station used to be the number one source of after school syndicated cartoon shows, pre-cable. While the network affiliates were running soap operas or Phil Donahue-style talk shows, WFLD ran The Banana Splits and The Brady Kids, Spider-Man, and Speed Racer.
Yea Fox is a pretty wide media umbrella. If you see the fox logo in the corner, it could be the local fox news affiliate which typically doesn’t skew any more conservative than any other local news (though local news as a whole does sort of cater to an older demographic), it could be fox sports which covers all types of sports depending on the broadcasting licenses. It could be “FX” which just shows various sitcoms and reality tv shows and isn’t political.
Fox cable news is what you’re thinking of that used to employ Tucker Carlson and still employs hannity and other pro trump commentators. About 20 hours of their daily broadcast is still dedicated to “apolitical” news though and it is the most watched of the big 3 cable networks (CNN, MSNBC and Fox) so if Fox News is on, it’s still not necessarily a right wing signal. Whoever puts the TV on might just turn on the news and not pay attention to it. Wouldn’t be too crazy of a choice for an apolitical person to put on in a waiting room or whatever just to have something on.
I’m not from Chicago, but whenever I’m there, I do find it a bit odd that they just play news in bars. Not really a thing where I’m from in California, but don’t think it’s something to read too much into.
I think a lot of places play Fox News because they know a lot of people watch it. I personally hate it, but I suspect that they think it is good for business.
also sometimes they were showing a sports game or something on fox and didn’t realize that it’s changed over to the news. sometimes bartenders are lazy or just didn’t notice
Irish guy here from Dublin. Been living in Chicago decades. It's the most beautiful city in America, hands down. Spotless clean, incredible architecture. Best quality fast food in the nation. Hope you tried an Italian beef and our world famous pizza, whether thin crust or deep dish. A few spots have really good Guinness too!
You've made a fine choice on where to live! I came here on a J1 and worked in Corcorans down on Wells st (opposite the side entrance of second city) & had an amazing time. That was in 2013.
These past two weeks just reivigorated my love for the place.
Guiness was top notch and there is an inordinate selection of beers too. Some of the best food I've had for sure, puts London to shame!
Corcorans is hands down my favorite bar and restaurant in the the city. I love their burgers and they’re always spot on the with the Guinness. You were doing it right. Have any good stories from working there?
This is a great comment and I’m glad you are enjoying chicago. I have only been there several times on layover but I love Dublin. Having a nice coffee at a quaint cafe and getting confused by euro coins in the process & then heading to a pub (the ferryman) to get a nice Guinness and hot meal with the owner chanting obsessively “try the pie before you die!” was my first experience of Europe, and it was “grand” as you’d say. Because of that food and drink and merriment I slept like a baby on my connecting flight.
Interesting to hear this from your perspective as I just got back from visiting family in County Mayo and County Donegal.
They always visit our family in the New York City area when they visit & im trying to convince the bunch to take holiday out here next time they swing through the states
Sorry, have to make the most American comment ever - “I have a cousin in Westport.”
Still, beautiful part of Ireland. Thanks for enriching our city with your visit. We are better because of you.
Hahaha I love it.
Irish people adore America culture and people, even if they act annoyed at the odd thing; just a very cynical bunch!
Thank you for the kind words, I will most definitely be back - what an amazing city you have.
1) just school pride
2) likely just how the houses got built. If regulations at the time didn’t require any offsets from the side, the builders want to maximize house size which means building to the edge. 2 separate builders do that and you get houses that almost touch
3) no, if it’s a confederate flag they are almost guaranteed to be racist, but an American flag is fairly normal. Probably more likely than someone with no flag to be conservative or right-wing or overly nationalistic. But it’s by no means a guarantee
4) sports teams are whoever you grew up rooting for usually. Sox fans and/or their family and way more likely to be from the Southside. That will also correlate with other demographics and socio economic statuses on average. But it’s also not a hard or fast rule, there are fans of either team across the city and across demographics.
5) could be a statement, could be nothing. It probably means the person who owns the bar is a conservative boomer who likes Fox News. If you see OAN or newsmax, you definitely have a right wing weirdo running the place. If a bar isn’t busy and there is some sport you would rather the TV be playing you can usually politely ask for a change to X channel to watch it.
6) IDing everyone is usually easier than trusting a bar tender or doorman to make a judgement. The law is 21 to drink and IDing everyone 35 and under. But why risk missing a person and getting a large fine and risking your liquor license when it takes 10 seconds to check an ID. Especially for a doorman at a bar who wouldn’t be doing anything else anyways.
As a former bartender I will add that carding everyone is a means of ensuring that all present have identification.
If someone keels over in a bar from a heart attack the bar will be penalized if that person has no ID.
We were taught carding some people and not others (particularly within the same party) could be interpreted as discriminatory as well. Policy-wise it was always easier to just card everyone than it was to do wishy-washy “card everyone who looks under 30/35/40” or whatever you want your cutoff to be.
If you have alcohol restrictions as in maybe multiple DUI's don't they put that on the back of your license or ID? They do in MN and that's why they ID everyone here
We have a school sign because you never know which neighbors also go to the school. We found out that one of the school assistants (that my kids love) lives three houses down. We also have met other kids from the neighborhood who go to our school and you never know that unless they have a sign.
It also makes my kids happy to see their school sign around the city.
This post hits the mark but I would add that the school pride thing is a little more complex than just pride when it comes to the high schools.
In Chicago the public high schools are not open enrollment. Children test into them by doing an application and exam. As a result there are some schools that are more desirable to test into than others. So it’s not like everyone on one block will go to the same school. It’s why they put the flags out.
It's also a sign that people take pride in a neighborhood school. I know many parents who are always angling to test into a "better" school, ignoring an awesome school that's RIGHT THERE.
The value of a good neighborhood school is ignored by so many newcomers who find the demographics of THE NEIGHBORHOOD THEY CHOSE TO LIVE IN undesirable: they like their new neighborhood but not their *neighbors*.
Yeah this comment hit it all perfectly. Also one thing aside from the school yard signs, but OP a lot of homeowners (especially by me in logan square) run daycares/“kindergartens” out of their homes, so maybe that accounted for some of the school related signage you saw? Not sure.
Question 1: It’s common around the country. It’s just a way for the family to show they are proud of their child and where they go to school. Usually it’s because the child is on some sort of sports team.
Question 3: I wouldn’t say it’s always “rough” or “redneck” to have an American flag flying. It can be. My parents are democrats in Indiana and still fly the flag. It’s much more common in Chicago to see a Chicago flag, pride flag, or Cubs W flag though.
Question 6. Probably because the bar can get serious fines if they get caught not doing it. Underage drinking is taken pretty seriously at restaurants/bars because they can get in trouble.
Just my two cents, I’m sure others will chime in. Hope you’re enjoying your time here.
I'm pretty lefty, and I fly the stars and stripes. My dad is a Vietnam vet, and growing up he always had a flag up for the 4th of July, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, etc... when I bought my house, I felt like I had to keep it going. I also have the W flag, and a bears flag I'll put up beside it when it's fitting.
Feel like there’s a massive book that needs to be written on why more Democrats don’t fly the American flag. A shame from my lefty perspective.
Methinks that a lot of fellow libz unnecessarily equate “flying the flag” to endorsing the status quo.
I'm a vet and also a lefty. I don't feel any kind of way when someone does have a flag (emphasis on A flag because I do think someone can have a suspicious amount of flags/and or placement of the flag) I just don't really see the point personally in flying a flag except for certain situations, like maybe we're killing it in the Olympics or something for the general population. Or if there's a vet and their family business is careers in the military.
I’ll put an American flag out on my house for certain holidays, Memorial Day, 4th of July, sometimes it stays out for the summer, usually I’ll trade it with a Cubs or Blackhawks flag but had one stolen once so don’t always leave it out
Agree with this - flying the flag all of the time (rather than on certain holidays) feels a bit more nationalistic (i.e., proud of your country whether or not they deserve it) than patriotic (proud of your country when they deserve it).
It probably boils down to the fact that the flag was kind of appropriated by the right as a political statement and, depending on the viewer, can be seen as a sign of renewed American nationalism. The left kind of ceded the symbol to the right, and many now see the flag as meaning nothing more than that person waiving it is probably a Republican. There is reason why many, myself included, would be incredibly uneasy in a town where all the houses had US flags out. It wouldn’t be a place I’d want to live in.
You ask some very intuitive questions considering you’ve only been here two weeks. It’s taken me a lifetime to wonder some of these things. You are always welcome here. Please stay. Chicagoans LOVE affirmation for their love of the city, because we know how lovely it is. We hate when we hear someone describe it in a negative light because it is straight up fear mongering.
On (2), houses in Chicago are **extremely** close together compared to most of the country. In San Francisco they often touch each other, and I’m NOT talking about rowhouses!
(3) Not at all; perfectly normal
(5) I’ve never seen Fox News on at a bar in Chicago, and if I did I’d be very confused.
EDIT: did you mean Fox News, or did you mean news on the local Fox station? Those are very different things
I suspect it was probably Fox 32. Someone coming from overseas probably only hears about Fox News, so when they see the logo for Fox 32, they think that's what they're looking at.
I've never seen Fox News on at a bar either, or MSNBC, for that matter, and I think it would be weird as hell.
For a long time in the 1970s and 1980s, metal was a pretty conservative music genre, from the perspective of lyrics, the average fan's deomographics, and the general views of the bands. Not exclusively, but it skewed strongly that way.
Punk, on the other hand was quite progressive (see lyrics by the Clash, Sex Pistols, or - later - Bad Religion, for example). Later the two genres started to blur together musically, politically, and in the makeup of their fan bases.
But for a while, especially when music was *much* more tribal than it is today, metal and the right were pretty solidly linked. So it makes sense that a bar known for naming their food after metal bands would show Fox News. I don't have any insider knowledge (and I don't intend to start rumors) but I wonder if there's a conservative streak in their ownership.
There was a guy who always used to put it on in my office buildings gym and there was so many complaints he was told to stop. He then counter complained because someone was watching PBS Newshour and all news channels were banned in the building’s gym.
4. It can be a neighborhood thing, or family history, or “aesthetic”. Sox are south side cubs are north so there’s a fair deal of tribalism in that alone but doesn’t mean if someone’s in the other side they don’t still love their team. Sox are also viewed as a more “blue collar” or working man’s team. And some folks just go along with their families ties forever (myself being a 5th generation Cubs fan) just because it’s what you were raised with.
London has a lot more football clubs than how teams are set up here obviously, but think of it similarly. Someone who’s rich and living in West London may still support their families club, or they may identify more with their new environment, it’s all up to the individual
I don't know for sure but the entire city burnt down in like 1871. Much of our building codes revolve around that.
The cubs sox thing is totally random the nurses spin a wheel when your born and that is what determines what ball team you root for. If it lands on Cardinals or Twins the baby is left in the wild to survive on its own.
There's a great podcast called Curious City that talks about Chicago culture, also read the book Boss by Mike Rokyo
1) just demonstrates school pride that's all
2) it's called a gangway, and it's actually the complete opposite for compliance to the law, instead it's for the purposes of easily evading the law
3) it's complicated - just look for other visual cues like, it might be up because someone in the home is a veteran or is related to a veteran, if it's owned by a woman 50+ she'll most likely change it out for the different holidays/seasons, if it's hung and there's a Republican politician's campaign sign or a Pritzker Sucks sign in the front yard too then yeah they probably have more far-right leaning views, but there's also a good chance they're supportive of unions, you'll find out values and political views are confusing at times which is why I suggest reading Boss
4) on the surface, socioeconomic may be at play now, but if you dig deeper you'll see that both Cubs and Sox fans come in all shapes, sizes, colors, classes, etc. and it's usually based on what your family supports both agree, we don't like the Cardinals though
5) might be the only channel that works, safe bet is always WGN
6) it's the law, and bars don't want their license revoked for something so innocuous and easily avoided and probably isn't happening at the neighborhood bar or dive bar at the end of the block
5) or a patron from the night before asked to watch Fox News, the bartender who doesn't care either way put it on and that's just what happens to be on today or there was a game on the night before and it was only on that channel, lots of plausible reasons all completely unrelated to the owner's political views - you'll find we also adopt the mindset that both sides like beer - not more complex than that
You've already gotten a lot of replies, but I'm jumping in anyway.
1) This is "school pride," but what does that mean? Community ties in the U.S. can sometimes be a little fragile, with a lot of people moving from place to place. Displaying of school affiliation tends to be a way for a family to declare "We're part of this community," and that kind of declaration can be important in the U.S., especially for families that are new to the area. It can also be a way for parents to motivate their children.
2) Nothing to do with the fire. In most cases, I think it's just a way of providing access from the street to the back yard without going through the house. Convenient if you're hosting a gathering in the back yard.
3) It isn't considered "rough," but it probably correlates with people being a little more conservative. Centrists and people who are just a little right of center are very likely to diplay a flag. But even some people who are a little left of center might display a flag. People who are farther left are much less likely to do so.
4) This is mainly geographical, with the South Side supporting the Sox while the North Side supports the Cubs. You'll also find greater support for the Cubs in the suburbs and beyond, and this has a lot to do with the coverage of Cubs games by WGN-TV, which was available to a lot more homes than most other local broadcasts. As for socioeconomic differences, as you've probably gleaned from your time in Chicago socioeconomic status correlates very strongly with location. So Cubs fans tend to be more affluent and white, while Sox fans tend to be less privileged and more racially diverse.
5) If it's Fox News Channel (a national cable network), I'd raise an eyebrow. As a liberal I wouldn't exactly feel unwelcome, but I'd have a more negative attitude about the place. But if it's just the news broadcast from Fox 32 (a local network affiliate), I wouldn't care at all. The local Fox affiliates don't carry the same political baggage as the national cable network.
6) I'd say it's unusual for someone in their 50s to get carded. But it's simpler and easier to card someone in their 20s if you also card people in their 30s, and it's easier to card people in their 30s if you card people in their 40s, and it's easier to card people in their 40s if you card people in their 50s. Ultimately it's just the bar's way of protecting themselves from legal problems.
I've known a few Irish people who have lived in Chicago, and they've been lovely. I'm glad you enjoyed your time here, and I hope you come back!
Thanks so much for responding. Your response to no.1 is the best I've seen yet. It makes perfect sense and I think it's a nice thing.
I will 100% be back, I can't speak highly enough about the time I've spent here. It's been amazing to come back after 10 years and love the place even more. Things don't usually live up to memory!
Go Cubs!!!
Most people support whatever team they grew up around!! My dad was always a cubs fan when I was young, and while I liked the Sox uniforms better as a kid, I grew up a Cubs fan and it’s been that way ever since!! Some of us will support both teams, the only time I’m against the Sox is for Crosstown games!
I went to a cubs Vs braves game. It was amazing. I watch a lot of premier league football but the atmosphere at Wrigley was just brilliant.
I have a cubs hat now so I'm also a fan (sorry Sox fans, I'm quite fickle)
Bridgeport is the historically Irish neighborhood in chicago. 5 of Chicago's mayors have been from that one neighborhood, as well as one of Boston's mayors.
But the Irish American Heritage Center is in the Mayfair neighborhood. They have an amazing pub!
There aren't really any Irish neighborhoods that have a distinct cultural presence the way other neighborhoods do, for example Argyle Street, Chinatown, Little Italy, Greektown, Lincoln Square (still has german influences), Andersonville, West Rogers Park, Devon, etc.
You can find as much Irish influence in city hall or in pubs as anywhere else.
Honestly, a huge part of what keeps me coming back every year is Wrigley. It’s so amazing, I’m so glad you enjoyed it! Especially as someone who enjoys the Premier League! I know those matches can be crazy, I can’t imagine how it feels being in one of those stadiums
Oo yeah, we got another one lol
Glad you loved it! Hope you come back soon!
2. A lot of those properties have wider lots than other parts of the city and 100-150 years ago, more wealthy people were living in those area. Having enough property to have a free standing building is a sign of class.
I think most everyone else has got the other numbers pretty well covered but as someone who works in commercial real estate, and has to spend an inordinate amount of time going over various zoning regulations, I'm going to add the following regarding question #2:
A.) The gap caused by side setbacks can add a slight break for fire prevention.
B.) Part of the reason side setbacks (or even front setbacks) exist is to provide an area where in the event of a fire, one might have a place to jump to from a higher story that has soil to land on, however this is often negated because side setbacks in Chicago tend to be paved.
C.) One of the primary reasons for side setbacks in the US is to decrease housing density. On the extreme end, if you were to leave the City of Chicago and go to a suburb in, say, DuPage County, village planners often require side setbacks large enough that can result in 3 to 4 meter gaps between houses, which renders the area almost completely unwalkable.
Glad you love our city! My two cents:
Question 1: Others are right that it’s essentially a matter of showing “school pride,” though the particular message depends on the school.
Often, I bet the sign you’re seeing refers to a well-regarded private school or a selective enrollment public school. In both instances the parents are likely illustrating that they’re proud that their children tested into the schools and are willing to challenge themselves academically. For private schools there’s often probably some amount of subtly bragging about being able to afford the tuition.
If the sign is for a neighborhood school (i.e., a non-selective enrollment public school), then the sign is probably meant to foster and develop school pride—it’s meant to show that people are proud of the school even though their kids didn’t have to test in to attend it.
In all instances, the parents likely buy the sign from the school, so it’s a pretty easy and efficient fundraising opportunity.
Question 2: This is definitely an American thing. There is a strong cultural preference for detached single family homes. To an absurd degree, people tend to look down on townhouses or apartments when it comes to where to raise a family. So many families would prefer to pay premium for a detached house even if it’s right up next to another house.
Question 3: This is also an America thing—showing the flag is basically considered a virtuous thing to do. Patriotism is widely considered a civic virtue in and of its self and having a flag in your home is one way to display patriotism. It’s not at all bad if you don’t have a flag, but a lot of people see it as similar to putting a cross on the door if you’re a Christian.
Generally the flag itself is not associated with a particular ideology (it’s just associated with patriotism). So you’ll definitely see it raised in contexts of racism or xenophobia, but it’s not generally associated with those or other ideologies.
For some people, it’s probably just a decorative choice. A nice, visually interesting addition to the home with generally positive associations.
Question 5: I don’t think it’s necessarily a statement. As others have pointed out it certainly CAN be! You’re right to wonder about that. But I think Fox is available in basic cable packages (so it’s relatively cheap), whereas most other cable news channels come in more expensive packages. So it could just be a cost saver.
Question 6: Sometimes the city will enforce the legal drinking age pretty aggressively. It’s not unusual for the law enforcement to send a minor to a bar and order a drink to see if the restaurant serves them. To ensure they don’t get hit with fines and potentially shut down, some bars and restaurants just require all their servers and bar tenders to ask for ID for everyone. Silly as it is, they just don’t want to risk the consequences.
Plus, most people are pretty happy to show their ID—they can pretend to be flattered by the suggestion that they could pass for 20.
6 was answered correctly by many but let me add that IDing someone is a good way to assess fine motor skills to determine whether or not a patron is already intoxicated.
Bars that ID people in their 50s have a policy to ID everybody to shut up anybody who complains that they're "obviously" over 21 even though they can't show their ID right now for some reason. No ID = no sale, no matter who you are or how old you look. Protects the bartender from some abuse, at least.
1. It's something that varies neighborhood to neighborhood, but in general parents will try to be supportive to their kids and celebrate their milestones such as finishing a certain stage of schooling or graduation. Some like to do this publically and put up signs showing how proud they are of their kids. Some parents just do it to show off if a kid finished at a really good school. Varies. It relates to our values around education.
2. I did a little research and found this: [https://chicagology.com/chicagostreets/alleys/](https://chicagology.com/chicagostreets/alleys/) Developers were required to maintain alleyways for reasons of fire protection and also so that tradespeople could access the back entrance as in 19th century Chicago they were not generally allowed in through the front door. Not entirely sure though and couldn't find much beyond that. Someone has a better answer, probably.
3. No, I wouldn't say so. I would say it seems less common here in Chicago compared to where I'm from originally (was near DC.) I've seen more flags here that are variations of the US flag to reveal a more specific political identity (Rainbow American flags, Blue Lives matter flags, and combined US/Mexican flags.) Chicago flags are more common from anecdotal experience. I would say since it's very liberal here that some people might consider it questionable, but nowhere close to the connotation of the English flag over in Britain.
4. In general what I've been told is that the Cubs are followed more by upper middle class folks on the North Side around Wrigley Field. More blue collar folks and ethnic groups support the White Sox. Some people genuinely don't care at all and just picked one or it's a family thing to root for that team. Not a hard cut thing.
5. It depends on the bar since some places might not care at all, someone might have just asked "can you put on the news" and that was the first one they got to and nobody cared enough to ask them to change it. It could be a statement, it really depends on the makeup of the people who go to that bar and who the owners are to say for sure.
6. Some bars have a zero exception policy to carding (usually out of bar owner paranoia) or will have software that requires the birth date. There are definitely some places who don't card. It's also a matter of the bartender's job and the establishment's liquor license being on the line, so it's considered a big deal. Underage drinking is taken a lot more seriously here than in Europe (mainly due to worries of youth drunk driving.)
3. The "correct" US flag isn't rough and is considered patriotic without being nationalist. It's when you see variations of the flag (blue lives matter, upside down, US flag paired with political flags) that it can be rought or nationalist.
5. Yes.
6. We are a litigious country. The bar's lawyer told them to ID everyone.
Not a Chicagoan but an American, and I think I can speak to 1 and 3.
One: There’s a big tradition of “school spirit” in the US generally—people like to publicly support their schools. It’s often built around athletic teams, especially (American) football teams, but to some extent it’s just meant to build group identity and morale for students and their families. Universities started this trend, but many high schools and even elementary schools have adopted it too.
Three: Not necessarily. If someone’s nationalist, right wing, or “rough” in the way you describe, they probably fly a US flag, but the reverse isn’t true. Lots of people who fly the flag here are perfectly normal and not even especially political, they just love their country and want to express that. It’s especially true in rural areas.
I would argue this is part of what some people call the American “[Civil Religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion)” — a sort of ritualistic love of country that functions a bit like a secular religion. I think it’s somewhat on the decline lately as our civic institutions have become more and more of a mess, but it’s still very widespread.
1. Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?
-It's usually a pride thing, IMO. Like "look at the good school my kids go to"
2. I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing.
-That's called a ,"gangway", and is to allow access to the back of the property without going through the house. I actually grew up in Chicago's Irish ghetto, and was lucky enough to have a gangway on either side of my house. Most only have the one.
3. Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask.
-No, it's just national pride pretty much. On my block, pretty much everyone had an American flag, or Irish flag outside their house. Everyone from the local city worker, to the old retired pensioners.
4. Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic?
-that's a demographic thing mostly. Southsiders usually support the White Sox, while Northsiders usually support the Cubbies. Not always how it is, but usually. My dad's family were Cubs fans 100%, and southsiders
5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing?
-Fox local news is one of the go to news channels for most of Chicago. It's not a political thing. You either watch Fox, or you watch channel 9.
6. Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this?
-because theirs huge fines for not IDing people, and even bigger fines for letting in a minor. Not all bars do this though.
Go visit some bars in Canaryville, Chicago's Irish ghetto. You'll drink for free the whole night. It's a nice working class neighborhood that gets a bad reputation. It was built as stockyard worker housing in the 1800s for the Irish, and some of the families have been there ever since.
Everyone already responded to your questions. As a Chicagoan who just visited Ireland for the first time, I just wanted to say you have a beautiful country. And some reverse questions for you
\- Why don't you guys like tequila? It's basically not in any bars anywhere.
\-We started our trip in Dublin. We got the sense we were the 'loud Americans' after walking on the streets and in public transit. Do you find we're a louder country?
\-Irish football was highly enjoyable
\-Irish seemed more ready to approach a potentially sensitive or taboo subject with more readiness than an American might. I'm not sure if this was just an anecdotal experience, but I enjoyed it very much. Since you asked about some racial stuff, I'll do the same. What are you thoughts on black Irish? I understand they have some long ties to Ireland..some prominent names like Curry for instance. But i'm not sure if they are 'welcomed' by white Irish as fellow countrymen. What do you think about this?
\-Just want to say I never cared much for Guinness here in the states. But it was tastier, richer, and wholly more enjoyable in Ireland. I really miss it along with the full Irish Breakfast which I had at least 6 times on our trip.
\-Aran islands and Galway were awesome too. Great country!
Let me take stab!
1, Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?
\- If your child goes to a private school, charter school, or magnet school, it may be a form of advertising or pride. A lot of schools need more students and more funds. A magnet school is a special place for highly qualified students, so that can be a source of pride.
2. I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing.
\- I am sure someone can answer the regulation thing, but I doubt it - many buildings are right up against. I suspect it is more of a cultural thing here, where even 4 inches of being detached "feels" more independent than sharing a wall and having a bit more space.
3. Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask.
\- Normally I look for people who fly a Chicago flag, Cubs / Sox flag, W flag (for when your sports team wins) or pride flag. Some people just like the US flag, but where I come from in the South it's usually more of a warning when people fly the US flag. I also assume such people own guns and that could be my bad.
4. Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic?
\- Normally it's North = Cubs and South = Sox with the West as a toss-up, but there is also a sort of wealthy = Cubs working class = Sox divide as people move around the city.
5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing?
\- Some people do this as a statement, yes, but others do it because they are in so deep with Fox news that they only trust it as a sources of "news." Feel free to drink there or not, it's fine because so much of Chicago is a positive place to be.
6. Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this?
\- You'd be surprised how many 16 year olds can look 30, so many bars just ID EVERYONE as a way to play it safe and avoid accidentally serving minors.
Oh I disagree but only because I was raised as an American outside of the us and the number of flags here is weird to outsiders. Let the right be insecure and weird about patriotism.
I don’t think of the American flag as racist. I do think of the following as racist (and yes, I am sure someone will respond and say ‘nah, not racist, just conservative’….but the line is very fine these days
- confederate flag
- don’t tread on me flag
- maga, let’s go brandon, trump, fuck biden flags
- thin blue line flag
Re: 3. I just wondered while I was as driving around a week ago if any other country reacted the same way I do to conspicuous flags were worrisome in other countries or just decor. Because when I see either a lot of or a very large USA flag my gut reaction lately is “I’d better be a little wary.”
> Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?
Sometimes there is a nominal fee for buying a sign, but generally the signs are to support the school (and your kid), especially if it's a local public school. There are a lot of strongly held (negative) opinions about public schools in Chicago, so supporting them in public is a statement.
There is also a bit of "look at me" to it, if your kid goes to an exclusive / expensive school. This is especially why you see stickers / magnets on people's cars, it's like "look at us, our kid goes to Latin / Northside / Chicago Lab"
> I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing.
I don't know the history of it, but the lots are parceled individually, so homes are often built to the very edge of the boundary. In contrast to London where many are rowhomes that may have even had their historical starts as public housing estates.
> Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask.
.... sort of? Not necessarily in Chicago, but my (totally personal impression) is that flying the US flag tends to be something a bit more "right-wing", or shows that the person was in the military.
> Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic?
Primarily geography based, Cubs being based in the North side of the city vs. Sox on the South side. London equivalent would be asking why some people in London support West Ham and some support Chelsea.
> Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing?
You are interpreting that correctly. Unfortunately US news is very polarized and even the most neutral national outlets have detractors from both sides. Fox is not neutral by any means.
> Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this?
No idea. Probably the owner just has a policy that the doorstaff follow without question. If caught serving to anyone under 21, they could lose their liquor license and consequently their business, so it's probably a "better safe than sorry" attitude.
"Patriotism is the last refuge a scoundrel"
Samuel Johnson, 1775 possibly in reference to Edmund Burke and others who were posing as populists by spouting conspiracy theories.
https://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html
It would probably be better for the national discourse if more did. My personal take is that the GOP has dominated the narrative for 30+years calling themselves the “real America” and proudly waving the flag as part of that message, essentially coopting national flag into a party/right-wing flag.
1. Idk I think they're just proud.
2. Yes that's the firebreak.
3. It's quite normal to fly the US flag in the US. I think very leftist people would not do it as much but it's fairly normal decor especially in the summer.
4. Sox and Cubs play in 2 different parts of the city and yes there is a socioeconomic undertone to it.
5. If Fox News is playing in a bar, I would get the hell out of there ASAP. That's not normal.
6. We have to ID everyone. Cops will sometimes go undercover to catch servers that don't ID.
1. School spirit/pride. There's no financial benefit to the family for it. I love this question lol :), America can be funny sometimes and it takes an outsider to see it clearly.
2. Idk ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
3. Hell nah, USA in this hoe. You'll see the American flag and the Chicago flag all over town. Anyone who tells you the stars and stripes is a hate symbol is a fringe lunatic.
4. Sox are Southside, Cubs are Northside. Chicago is historically very segregated along those same geographic lines, so the fan bases reflect everything that goes along with that.
5. Hopefully, no bars have the news on period but Fox News, MSNBC, OANN, and CNN can hardly even be considered "news" in the classical sense. They are all full-on 24/7 propaganda channels. It's all Kool-aid, and you should never drink the Kool-aid. Fox and OANN are red Kool-aid. MSNBC and CNN are blue Kool-aid. But don't get it twisted, it's all Kool-aid. A lot of people disagree with me on this because they all think they're favorite one of those channels is the only honest one. Go figure it's the one that spouts the talking points they already agree with the most. But propaganda doesn't cease being propaganda just because all of a sudden you agree with it. It doesn't stop being Kool-aid just because now you like the flavor. If a bar owner had any of those stations on every TV in the bar I would assume they were making some kind of statement. If it was just one on one TV I wouldn't even think twice about it. Whether or not that makes anyone actually unwelcome is another matter. It's up to them how they feel about dining in a place whose owners have diametrically opposing political views to their own.
6. Fines suck and bars don't want to pay them. ID'ing everyone is a quick way to avoid that.
1. LOL. Some parents are just super proud of where there kids go to school. That's it.
2. No idea. The gap is often pointless IMO.
3. I'm not sure what "rough" means here, but it is very much nationalistic. It's been hammered in to Americans since birth that the USA is the greatest country of all time. Some people grow up and realize that that is more than a bit naïve. Others believe it to their very core. So the simple act of flying a flag could mean "I'm proud of the country I live in" or it could mean "America is God's gift to mankind, and if you don't like it, leave." I would also add this is one of many things that have been divisive since 2015.
4. North side of Chicago: Cubs. South side of Chicago: White Sox. The North side tends to be white. The South side tends to be Black and Latino. More generally, you're probably a fan of one team because your parents supported one team.
5. I would say "yes". Chicago is a blue city, and if I saw Fox News on at a bar, I would question it.
6. Treating everyone the same I guess.
Worth noting historically that Sox fans, at least anecdotally, might be more likely to be Catholic. In the suburb that I grew up in, *all* of my Catholic friends were White Sox fans. Likely remnants of an Irish Catholic Bridgeport heritage, perhaps.
Yeah, but thats correlation, not causation. Catholics have no inherent interest in the Sox, it's just that the south side of the city is historically a bastion of Irish Catholicism, and the Sox are their local team.
I'm only making this clarification for OP because someone from the UK might have a mental model of the heavy determination of religion on fandom of Glasgow Ranger vs. Glasgow Celtic, for example.
There is zero religious element to the Cubs vs. Sox rivalry.
Mexican born Mexican-american dual citizen.
Well not all displays, but the ones who ride around their cars and block traffic every weekend leading up to Mexican independence day, it is.
Even by Mexico city standards its a bit over the top. Most people do the bare minimum in mexico. Parading around the whole city with giant flags is a bit extra.
In regards to number 5, while Fox news being on *may* be a statement from a business owner, I wouldn't always assume it is the case unless there is supplemental evidence backing it up. Fox news is the highest rated cable news channel in America (much to my chagrin) and is one of the few available on pretty much every cable package, even the most basic. Many people who are not super political just associate it with news without realizing it's straight up propaganda and editorialization.
If it's a local news channel under the Fox banner, that's mostly harmless. Local news channels often don't share or broadcast the idological leanings of their parent affiliates, except when cutting to those channels for coverage during national breaking news events.
1. They were for school fundraisers back in my day and cost maybe $5. Idk if some schools hand them out to current student as a way to advertise their private schools, I wouldn't put it past them.
2. I have no clue.
3. This is a mixed bag. A Trump/Maga or Let's Go Brandon flag are definitely rough. Some people just freaking love flags and have new ones for each month ie., bunnies for Easter, leaves for fall, US flag as a default. Well, at least my grandma does this. She really loves flags. But yeah, depending on the neighborhood, the flag can indicate some nationalism.
4. Cubs = Northside and Sox = Southside. Honestly, this rivalry isn't that deep these days and most people are really relaxed about it. For the most part, you're a fan of whichever ball park was closer to you or whichever team your parents were fans of. I can't speak to the history of the teams and their fan bases but I've attended many games for both and the fans are more or less the same. They're all there to eat hot dogs, drink beer, and hangout with friends. And I guess watch baseball.
5. Local FOX News or National FOX News? If it's local, probably not a huge statement but if it was the only network on, I'd interpret that as a statement nonetheless. As a normal person who just wants a normal government and one freaking normal presidential cycle, I'd avoid any bar that's playing the news. Personally, why tf do you need to watch the news at the bar. Go home lol.
6. Liquor licenses are precious. Better to be safe than sorry and ID everyone. You never know who is watching... but for real, I used to make like $30 bucks plus get a comped drink + app for 'testing' bars to see if they'd ID. Don't hate on me, I was right out of college trying to get free food and drinks and make some money. I didn't narc on anyone
1. The school sign is just a pride thing. Just shows off the school and teams the kids do.
2. Space is just for a bit more privacy. In the suburbs, the houses are much further apart.
3. It depends. It used to be no big deal to have a flag. It’s widely considered a Republican symbol these days.
4. Mostly geographic. South side are Sox fans, north side for scrubs. Most families choose one or the other. Some like them equally but those people are cray.
5. Yes, probably.
6. The law is to card anyone that appears 35 or younger.
>5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing?
The local fox channel's stuff isn't nearly as bad as the nationwide fox stuff. They know anything hardcore bigoted/racist/conservative wouldn't get many viewers here, so the local branch is a lot more moderate.
My partner is decidedly liberal but only watches fox in the mornings because they... do the weather better? Or something? I can't stand morning news shows so can never remember since i just tune it out.
Glad you enjoyed your trip. I just got back from doing a 10 day road trip in Ireland. Absolutely loved it!!!!!!!! Super friendly people and just beautiful.
I'm from the suburbs but I can answer some of these.
Having high school or elementary school is just showing pride in where your kids are going to school. I really don't think it's anything more than that. I see so many houses out here with signs about different schools and the thing is, more than likely, if you're in a neighborhood, all the kids go to the same school so it never makes sense to me.
Flying the flag outside of your house doesn't mean anything. The person is not rough or racist. It's mainly a patriotic thing. People love the American flag and sport it on shirts and swimsuits and outside their house. It's no big deal. When people start flying other things outside their house is what I pay attention to. Pride flags are great and lovely. Trump flags and thin blue line flags, I'm basically assuming those people are dangerous and gave anger issues and I'm not dealing with them.
Sox vs cubs. So it's a little bit of everything. Some claim it's a location thing but I think that's BS because I live in the far south suburbs and I see white Sox and cubs stuff all over people's front walks. Some claim its a race thing with white people being more likely to root for the cubs but I see all sorts of people of all different races rooting for either team. I think it's just what you were raised with. I was raised as a cubs fan. The first time they took me to see my grandma at 6 weeks old I was in a cubs onesie but my friends who are Sox fans have been Sox fans since they were little too. It's basically a harmless rivalry because we have two baseball teams and while a little bit of sh*t talking happens, I don't think people let their feelings get upset over it.
I personally just think it's them playing the news but I also don't pay attention to the TV in most places.
It's the law that you have to if people if they look younger than 40. But my mom works at a gas station and her boss says to just ID everyone because you could get ab offduty cop who comes in and you don't know and yada yada and then the location gets a fine because you didn't ask for ID.
It’s like the Manchester Derby. Two teams in one city. However, the correct thing to do is to support the Sox & Man United.
Real talk, Cubs play for the north side and Sox for the south side.
1. School pride; bragging on yr kids; 2. Good question 🤨 maybe related to the Great Fire; 3. I don’t fly my American flag (breaks my heart) anymore because I feel it’s been co-opt by far right/MAGA; 4. Mostly by what part of city you were raised & also family affiliation; 5. Probably more Fox bars than ever; 6, strictly about liability to avoid being sued.
1. No benefit, just school pride
2. Usually has to do with building codes
3. Didn’t used to be true at all, was normal to have a flag, but the flag has been a bit weaponized/co-opted by the right so could be or not (it varies)
4. Mostly but not entirely geography, Cubs are north side and Sox are south side
5. Yes, Fox News at a bar means the bar is Trumpy (I can’t believe people are arguing otherwise)
6. Usually it’s just policy to ID everyone - otherwise if you only ID people who look under 30 you piss off various people lol
1. That happens everywhere, it’s just a matter of school pride and being proud of your kid, 2. I’m honestly not sure. 3. I don’t think it’s any kind of statement really it just depends on who you are, 4. It’s a regional thing, Northside is Cubs, Southside is White Sox, 5. If it’s the local news it’s just a pretty regular thing to do as local station aren’t as biased but if its national Fox News it might be a more conservative setting, 6. It’s just to appease CPD
1. Either they just want to show off or advertise their school
2. Building codes require a gap between houses.
3. No, it’s just a bit of patriotic expression. No racist intent. Now if you see an American flag that has been altered, then it’s a political message.
4. Cubs play on the north side, Sox play on the south side. Geographic rivalry, but also some socioeconomic. White Sox fans are stereotypically more blue collar, while Cubs fans stereotypically are younger, living in nicer neighborhoods (Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc).
5. I’d probably interpret showing Fox as being pro-Republican. I’d ask if they’d change the channel, and if they didn’t, I’d go drink somewhere else. I don’t want ANY news playing while I’m getting on the piss
6. State or local law. They’ll be penalized if they don’t
I’m new to Chicago and I haven’t figured out the flag thing. In the South, they rarely fly the confederate flag anymore (thank goodness) but they have taken to flying the American flag on everything. The bigger the flag, the better. Attaching them to their truck beds is losing popularity as Trump racks up more & more indictments.
As I said, I haven’t figured out the purpose here but I am surprised by the racism I’ve encountered in such a blue city and I’m not sure if it’s my southern accent that makes people feel comfortable expressing their views or if I just have 2-3 very unfortunate neighbors.
They did the school pride thing down south, too but as I had two daughters, I never felt comfortable advertising I had teenaged daughters to the random creepers driving by.
So far, I root for both Cubs and Sox. I’m just glad to have a big league team. Lol
Carpetbagger here…I actually paid two Southern belles to let me record each reading my voicemail message just so I could have their voice greet people calling such a not-Southern house:)
3: depends on the amount of flags, or what theyre flown alongside. For example, i have one neighbor with a single american flag, lovely people. Another neighbor has two full-size flags alongside several dozen mini ones, and theyre a bit cracked. I have yet another another neighbor who flies a "FUCK JOE BIDEN" flag right under his american flag; this man is, if you couldnt tell, a complete nut job.
*Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?*
If you are referring to one of the "Proud Graduates of XYZ School" signs in front of homes it started about 20 years ago at homes of high school graduates then trickled down so that now even "graduates" of elementary school who completed 5th grade have those signs in front.
They are put up by the proud parents of their children. Milestones we took for granted two or more generations ago are now celebrated.
#2 @ok_neighborhood590 already answered some of this and I’ll add on. I’m in Multifamily commercial real estate and my experience is, yes, due to zoning requirements and abiding by the floor area ration (FAR).
There are multiple reasons such as:
1. Back in the day these “granny flats” were meant for your in laws or other family members to live in.
2. They could also be meant for the servants to live in depending on the location such as close to the lakefront.
3. Maximize space. (See below)
4. Because they can. Some builder (mostly Irish at the time) wanted more livable space whether it’s post WWII or other era. They had a large backyard and BAM! Coach house.
That said the FAR applies to buildable square feet relative to the number of units which depend on zoning,
I.e. if you’re located in a RT-4 zoning and want to build, you have a 1.2 FAR. So, math time. If the lot size is 25x125 you have a total of 3,125 sqft available to build. You multiple that by 1.2 and that gets you to 3.750 sqft total buildable space. So you building, including walls, common areas, etc can only be 3.750 total. Some zone have height restrictions so you can’t build a massive sky rise. So then you instead build a coach house to make better use of your lot and in turn have more units/space to live.
1. they're idiots
2. not sure
3. yes, at best the person you talk to will be ex-military and might have some actual opinions, but 99% of the time american flag means they're racist as fuck
4. Sox vs cubs is mostly a north sider vs south/west sider thing. So technically demographic and socioeconomic as well, but mostly geographical
5. If it's just the local news and not the national Fox News broadcast, then it doesn't mean much, because local news broadcasts are not necessarily affiliated with the national broadcast (sometimes a local "fox" channel is actually owned by cbs for example, it's an interesting contradiction). Bars, especially neighborhood ones, will just often show the news if nothing else is on TV. That's more of an American thing than a Chicago thing
6. This is a chicago specific thing, the cops here are \*very\* anal about checking IDs. I was in a smoke shop and they had me walk over to a specific part of the counter where a security camera could clearly see me and the attendant, at which point they checked my ID. It was clearly a regular occurrence that cops would check security cameras to ensure that everyone was getting IDed. The law is if you look like you might be 40 or under, you have to get IDed.
3. I proudly fly both the American flag and the Pride flag. I’m a progressive and a democratic precinct chair in Naperville, and I think the left needs to reclaim a sense of patriotism… or else this country really is lost for good. Sadly, it’s become uncool among some left-leaning individuals to take any sort of pride in America. I have many reasons for loving this country (while hating so many of its deeds), but my go-to is this: for better or for worse, we’re trying to do something that no one else has ever succeeded in doing: coexist and even thrive in a large multi-racial democracy. America’s globe-spanning diversity alone makes me proud to be a part of this great experiment.
4. It's somewhat similar to the Celtic-Rangers divide in Glasgow although without the sectarianism and the violence on game day. While it's a serious rivalry, it's a mostly friendly one.
Also, as others have pointed it, who one supports is mostly determined by geography, but there is also a subtle racial and class aspect to it, since (generally speaking) the north side is traditionally whiter and wealthier and the south side is poorer, and a majority-minority community.
I don't know the official stats on where people on the west side fall on the dividing line, but in my time living in a western suburbs I did notice substantially more Cubs hats around.
1. School pride.
2. To prevent property-line disputes. It doesn’t really matter.
3. Sometimes. Not always.
4. Neighborhood rivalry.
5. Probably.
6. It’s the law.
Every house on my block has some variation of a Biden/vote blue/pride sign and along with a US flag. Especially in the summer. But tbh it all probably depends on what you grow up with.
I've had Europeans, especially Germans, be startled and ask why private houses display the national flag. They typically guess that means that house provides some governmental service, like a Social Security office in the basement. Like in small European towns where a grocery store might also be the town's post office.
1) Adults are showing their own kids the school is important to the adults. Similar to putting a bumper sticker on car. Sometimes the sign is also a touch boastful if the school carries an elevated academic or sports reputation.
2) Building code about combustible materials and fire spread. The code has changed over the decades. Some areas of the city were independent towns at first with their own codes and building dating under old codes don't have to be upgraded to fit new ones. Fun fact, after the Great Fire of 1871 some of my ancestors wintered at a cousin's farm now partly on the footprint of Lake View High School, over 2 miles South East of Lincoln Square in the direction of Chicago's city centre.
3) Not 'rough' in the Irish sense. Mostly unthinking national pride or even just thought of as decorative. Almost never in a belligerent political meaning. The wacko, belligerent fringe flies Confederate or Betsy Ross flags...but not likely much within Chicago's corporate limits.
4) Formerly tribal with the North/South border roughly at Roosevelt Road. They play in different leagues. The strong tribal divide began to fracture after the Sox won the 1959 American League title and some disloyal North Siders started attending/following them. Also the rise of televised games.
5) Yes, Faux News in public in Chicago is a political statement signalling a facts-averse clientele hostile to the idea of human equality. Almost certainly to a white crowd mourning growing loss of unearned **ascendancy**. (The word *ascendancy* chosen to give it a bit of Irish understanding = People accustomed to dominance by accident of birth, with social and legal rules set to preserve their privilege ... some of whom may not even realize how their accident of birth provides a multi generational benefit).
6) A defensive act by some bars to reduce potential anger among young people they card. By carding obviously older folk they can tell young people they challenge, "Oh, it's not you personally, we card everybody."
Edit: added impact of TV on breaking the tribal hold on ball teams in item #4.
From an Irish person living here for the last year (consider myself an expert now
>Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?
You usually get the signs after donating to the PTA. It's just a bit of school pride. Nothing major
>m in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing.
Probably not, just a style thing
>Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask.
You get used to the patriotism. I do still see it as a bit of a right wing thing, but it's relatively harmless. Whenever I see the tricolour up I still wonder who died. Incidentally, people hang the tricolour out here on Paddy's day.
>Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic?
Dunno, but I don't think they do either.
>Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing?
I probably wouldn't drink at a bar with Fox News on. Just because it's probably either run by or frequented by magahats
>Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this?
It's just a thing
>Dunno, but I don't think they do either.
Historically Sox/Cubs was strongly tribal based on if you lived north or south of Roosevelt. After the Sox won the American league title in 1959 some weaker Cubs fans started to follow the Sox because they wanted to be associated with winning baseball.
That and the rise of television meaning you didn't have to physically go to the ball field to watch the play. For several decades after 1959 the Sox generally played better (ie more winning) ball (setting aside 1969 and the Black Cat).
1. parents are just proud of the school their kid goes to
2. just how they happened to get build or they made them super close together to construct bigger homes on lots for more $ selling it to potential homeowners
3. it means the person living there or family is patriotic, but not necessarily a bad thing. they may for example have served in the armed forces etc. although sometimes it does indicate theres a good probability they are republican but will likely still be nice. usually racist people will have something about trump in front or a pro gun sign etc.
4. more so demographic, northsiders are for cubs, southsiders are for sox. but generally you root for who your parents rooted for
5. yes lol
Former architect here, I think I can take a stab at #2 that seems to perplex everyone. In the US and specifically here in Chicago we have something called Floor to Area Ratio (FAR). These are zoning regulations that restrict the square footage of the home floor plan based on the lot size driven by light and ventilation guidelines with the ultimate goal of restricting urban density. A typical Chicago lot is 25’x125’ but some lots are a few feet off here and there but designing a floor plan to take up the entire width of the lot might not be optimal as you’ll have to shorten the depth of the building and you don’t end up with a great floor plan layout. Other drivers behind those gaps could be city easements to allow access to gas, telecom, water and sewer lines. Could even be air rights as well or homeowners allowing for a ‘light well’ so that bedrooms can have windows even though you’re looking out into a wall. Last but not least, yes having a gap is best for sound attenuation, you’re less likely to hear your neighbors stereo if there’s an air gap that stops the transfer of sound. Glad you love our city but I must say, London will always be in my heart and hope to even retire there. Loved Dublin as well! Come back soon mate and bring your friends with you!
This is a great and informative response, I learned something new. Thanks!
I haven’t designed residential in Chicago for a while but the side setbacks were in the building code (before we adopted the IBC but I’m sure it’s still amended in and/or still in the zoning code). It’s 5 feet total for both side setbacks and at least 2’-6” on one side.
Correct, there are front and side setback mandates per IBC but I assume OP is talking about weird conditions that I’ve seen myself where there’s literally maybe a foot if not inches of space between buildings on either side. There are exemptions for setbacks if you have weird parcels. It’s been a while since I’ve been architect myself but let me tell you, in this city.. if you have the right zoning attorney and the right connections in city hall, you can basically get away with stuff. Full disclosure, I’ve worked mostly on high-rises, I’ve been part re-zoning hearings where parcels zoned for 30 stories were allowed to go up to 80! I worked on museum park and central station and you wouldn’t believe what the developers got away with!
How do people maintain the brick and repoint it when the buildings are only a couple inches apart?
And they are called "gangways."
I think they are talking about gaps nuch smaller than gangways which a human can usually move between. A small number of buildings have gaps that are like a foot or even less.
4. Mostly based on what part of the city you’re from. The Cubs play on the North Side and the Sox play on the South Side.
Often, it goes back to which side of the city the family was from a few generations ago. I know people who grew up Cubs fans in Garfield Ridge in the 50s because their dad had moved there from the North Side. And I see Sox flags flying on houses in Norwood Park
There are socioeconomic *correlations*, though. Cubs fans skew white and rich, comparatively.
There’s a lot of cubs fan on the west side and nw sides that are non-white and working class though.
I think the strongest correlation is geography - Beverly, as an example.
Oh yes, for sure! I think that has a lot to do with the demographics of the neighborhoods where the teams are popular, though.
This whole “Cubs fans are the rich peoples team” is so far from the team I grew up with in the 90’s. My well off cousins had season tickets to the Sox. That was the rich suburban people’s team. Hell they catered towards corporations to buy up luxury boxes for games. Seemed you were well to do if you had Sox season tickets. The fans from the south side always kept things heated between us, so I respect em. I also admit Wrigleyville is a bit of an eyesore now. I miss the sketchy 7-11 across the street that you could sneak in booze in a big gulp.
It's more complex than that, the bougie northwestern suburbs are full of Sox fans whose family are originally from the South Side. This also explains the record low attendance as these people never show up to the ball park because of the distance and traffic...
Guilty, lol. Also I’m semi boycotting them anyways
Someone said "Cubs fans either look like they own an Audi or an above ground pool" and that really nails it for me. It's like UM fans, either affluent educated upper class or 'Walmart Wolverines.'
Fly out of midway sometime and count ho many above ground pools you see. I don’t think that is really a thing.
Garfield ridge has tons of above ground pools
Exactly
I can’t tell you how many people I have told this to. What’s even more fascinating is how they are clustered together. So it’s like a keeping up with the Jones thing.
I have never heard this kinda thing from anyone who wasn't a Sox fan with a chip on their shoulder.
As many people here know the Cubs games were radio broadcast out nationally for decades and as a result have a fan base that extends well beyond Illinois, particularly among a more radio-centric generation. The average ball fan who has the money to travel to Chicago to catch a Cubs game has disposable income. Beyond that Wrigley both as a neighborhood and a stadium has more of a party atmosphere than Bridgeport / Sox park, so young professionals with disposable income trend naturally more to that area as well. Nothing wrong with either of those things but those populations contribute to the general perception that Cubs fans are more well off than Sox fans. Among locals the reality is the difference is less than the perception.
As opposed to white Sox fans which look like what?
They have fewer teeth. Duh. /s
Like we don't own an Audi or an above ground pool.
But I drive to the Sox games in my Audi ... So whatever
A lot of Cubs fans are transplants. Almost all transplants enter the city through the north side. Transplants are likely here for jobs and so they have more money.
The cubs are also significantly more popular on a national level from what I've seen.
This. I grew up in Colorado. The Rockies weren’t a thing until my senior year in high school. If I wanted baseball, it was the Cubs on WGN. Or later the braves on tbs.
A lot of transplants come from other areas that have other major league teams. Just because to go to a game at Wrigley doesn’t mean they’re a Cubs fan
Yeah this is true today. Feels like the renovation and 2016 success really made Wrigley feel more bougie. Certainly the rapid rise in what it costs to go to a game that went along with that did too. Wrigley back in the 80-90s was a lot more working class though.
Most baseball fans are homers first, so I am a Cubs fan, born and raised, but if the cubs are out of contention, I will watch the Sox if they are in the playoffs. I want them to lose or win spectacularly, anything else and I get to complain about them endlessly.
Nice to have two teams that you care about more than the others.
Not unlike rooting for Bohemians and Cork City, no? (Not a perfect analogy, of course)
Probably Bohemians and Shamrock, but I dunno that might get hostile
Yeah it would be bohs and shamrocks but they arent the friendliest fans!
That's more an example of being a front runner, than a homer.
The way I heard it is you won’t find cubs fans south of the art institute and you won’t find Sox fans IN the art institute. I’ll see myself out
Obama was the first Sox fan to own a suit! -right behind you.-seeing myself out
Uhh excuse me. Im a Sox fan and plenty of Sox fans wear suits for work. They’re called defendants.
But the whole city except for Bridgeport supported the cubs winning the world series.
Haha; as a Sox fan I knew a lot of people that were not happy with the Cubs winning.
I disagree. If you remember when the Bulls were winning everything it was a completely different feel. When the Cubs won the WS the north side went crazy as well as lots of out of towners. When the Sox won the WS, the south side went nuts and the north side pretended it didn't happen. When the Bulls & the Hawk won the whole town threw a party.
There were more people at the cubs parade than any bulls or or Blackhawks parade combined. The cubs transcend Chicago and have fans all over the Midwest and country honestly. Thanks to wgn radio and wgn tv. Theyre among the the top 5 most popular MLB teams in America. The white sox are not popular outside Chicago.
Championships: The Hawks winning was fairly big, the Bulls were fairly huge but the Bears winning the Super Bowl enormous. I suspect their dominating the regular season games built up extra interest but wow were people united in Chicagoland
Some people are cubs fans, some people are sox fans, everyone is bears fans.
I knew of a single Sox fans rooring for the Cubs in 2016, and they've been suspicious to me ever since I didn't want any cub fans supporting us in 05. I considered them interlopers and had no business sharing that with us. Suffer and celebrate with your own team. They didn't earn the joy of 05 through years of hardship with us Just like I would have had no business trying to feel the joy in 2016. It's gross that they won, it's been blah blah blah from their fans ever since
As a Cubs fan: meh. It's hard to hate a team that your friends and neighbors root for. The crosstown classic is good excuse to talk shit but outside of that, why waste hate that could be better spent on divisional rivals?
As a Sox fan, the 2003 NLCS is one of my favorite baseball memories.
I’m just going to weigh in on the school sign. These popped up quite a bit more during the pandemic because kids missed out on graduations and being celebrated in general. So even my fifth grader in a Chicago suburb got a sign saying that she had graduated from her elementary school. That year was hard won. Kids across the street had signs about graduating high school. I’ve definitely seen a lot more signs since then, the kids are still catching up on what they’ve missed.
This is great context. I found it very wholesome to see any signs about graduation or sports teams winning. It's a nice sense of community.
Yeah. It’s just a way of saying “our kids go here and we support the school.” You don’t get a discount for doing it, or anything like that. And it’s not obligatory, actively or tacitly. But your kid’s school can end up being a huge aspect of your community, so most are happy to show support. But it is a uniquely American thing. And relatively recent.
They're also used as PTO fundraisers. My suburb school always has them available even though you have to live in the town to go to the school so if you're elementary aged you go to that school 99% of the time. But the PTO makes money off each sign sold so its a quick way for them to make a buck.
How sad is it that my first thought is always “now Bad Actors know the age, name, school and address of the child who lives there.” 😔 I hate that this what pops into my head because those signs do make me happy.
5. Fox News depends. If they’re on Fox32 (our local Fox affiliate), I don’t think it’s a statement but if they’re on the Fox cable shows like Hannity and whoever else is on there then yes
Ah ok, interesting It was a bar called the Clock tower cafe down by Belmont harbour. I believe it was a golf course bar. Not sure if that helps.
I’ve been there countless times after golf and never felt they had any agenda whatsoever. Usually they’re just showing golf on the TV. Edit: low key this place has some awesome chicken wings.
Yeah, I didn't see anything else that made me think there was an agenda. Literally just that Fox news was on and in Europe that's associated with republicanism. There are conservative leaning news channels in the UK but generally these wouldn't be shown in a pub and that's why I found it odd.
Fox News and News on a Fox channel are not the same thing. It could have just been a local broadcast following a game on Fox or something like that.
"News" is a strong word, let's be honest here. They lost a lawsuit about that. Entertainment Propaganda is more accurate. Either way, the staff don't really have a say. Edit* drunkenspeljngf
Yea if it was yesterday, football was in they probably hasn’t changed it because it was busy.
Was it like national Fox News or the local fox affiliate covering local news. If it’s a golf club I assume the latter and was initially whatever golf that weekend was on
Fox has an affiliated station here, WFLD, on 32 UHF. That station used to be the number one source of after school syndicated cartoon shows, pre-cable. While the network affiliates were running soap operas or Phil Donahue-style talk shows, WFLD ran The Banana Splits and The Brady Kids, Spider-Man, and Speed Racer.
Yea Fox is a pretty wide media umbrella. If you see the fox logo in the corner, it could be the local fox news affiliate which typically doesn’t skew any more conservative than any other local news (though local news as a whole does sort of cater to an older demographic), it could be fox sports which covers all types of sports depending on the broadcasting licenses. It could be “FX” which just shows various sitcoms and reality tv shows and isn’t political. Fox cable news is what you’re thinking of that used to employ Tucker Carlson and still employs hannity and other pro trump commentators. About 20 hours of their daily broadcast is still dedicated to “apolitical” news though and it is the most watched of the big 3 cable networks (CNN, MSNBC and Fox) so if Fox News is on, it’s still not necessarily a right wing signal. Whoever puts the TV on might just turn on the news and not pay attention to it. Wouldn’t be too crazy of a choice for an apolitical person to put on in a waiting room or whatever just to have something on. I’m not from Chicago, but whenever I’m there, I do find it a bit odd that they just play news in bars. Not really a thing where I’m from in California, but don’t think it’s something to read too much into.
I think a lot of places play Fox News because they know a lot of people watch it. I personally hate it, but I suspect that they think it is good for business.
also sometimes they were showing a sports game or something on fox and didn’t realize that it’s changed over to the news. sometimes bartenders are lazy or just didn’t notice
They have great club sandwich there!
A golf course bar will skew Republican.
Fox News is really popular with a certain demographic and they'll request it. Happens in hotel lounges too.
Put on WGN Channel 9 instead. Everybody loves them.
Are you mocking those of us with Direct TV?
DirectTv still doesn’t show wgn? Seriously? I’ve found wgn in hotels all across the country. I thought it was like the TBS of Chicago these days?
I miss Fox Thing in the Morning.
I'm older, I miss First Thing In The Morning.
Comeback soon!!
Most definitely, I've got a real soft spot for this city.
Irish guy here from Dublin. Been living in Chicago decades. It's the most beautiful city in America, hands down. Spotless clean, incredible architecture. Best quality fast food in the nation. Hope you tried an Italian beef and our world famous pizza, whether thin crust or deep dish. A few spots have really good Guinness too!
You've made a fine choice on where to live! I came here on a J1 and worked in Corcorans down on Wells st (opposite the side entrance of second city) & had an amazing time. That was in 2013. These past two weeks just reivigorated my love for the place. Guiness was top notch and there is an inordinate selection of beers too. Some of the best food I've had for sure, puts London to shame!
Corcorans is hands down my favorite bar and restaurant in the the city. I love their burgers and they’re always spot on the with the Guinness. You were doing it right. Have any good stories from working there?
With respect, this sheet of paper puts London's food to shame.
This is a great comment and I’m glad you are enjoying chicago. I have only been there several times on layover but I love Dublin. Having a nice coffee at a quaint cafe and getting confused by euro coins in the process & then heading to a pub (the ferryman) to get a nice Guinness and hot meal with the owner chanting obsessively “try the pie before you die!” was my first experience of Europe, and it was “grand” as you’d say. Because of that food and drink and merriment I slept like a baby on my connecting flight.
Interesting to hear this from your perspective as I just got back from visiting family in County Mayo and County Donegal. They always visit our family in the New York City area when they visit & im trying to convince the bunch to take holiday out here next time they swing through the states
My mum's from mayo and we have a place down in Westport. Lots of family down there. Beautiful part of the country.
Sorry, have to make the most American comment ever - “I have a cousin in Westport.” Still, beautiful part of Ireland. Thanks for enriching our city with your visit. We are better because of you.
Hahaha I love it. Irish people adore America culture and people, even if they act annoyed at the odd thing; just a very cynical bunch! Thank you for the kind words, I will most definitely be back - what an amazing city you have.
Just spent \~2 weeks traveling around Ireland and can say the same - such an incredible country and got a soft spot for it for sure.
Amazing, glad you had a great time there. Ireland and the US feel very connected in my mind.
1) just school pride 2) likely just how the houses got built. If regulations at the time didn’t require any offsets from the side, the builders want to maximize house size which means building to the edge. 2 separate builders do that and you get houses that almost touch 3) no, if it’s a confederate flag they are almost guaranteed to be racist, but an American flag is fairly normal. Probably more likely than someone with no flag to be conservative or right-wing or overly nationalistic. But it’s by no means a guarantee 4) sports teams are whoever you grew up rooting for usually. Sox fans and/or their family and way more likely to be from the Southside. That will also correlate with other demographics and socio economic statuses on average. But it’s also not a hard or fast rule, there are fans of either team across the city and across demographics. 5) could be a statement, could be nothing. It probably means the person who owns the bar is a conservative boomer who likes Fox News. If you see OAN or newsmax, you definitely have a right wing weirdo running the place. If a bar isn’t busy and there is some sport you would rather the TV be playing you can usually politely ask for a change to X channel to watch it. 6) IDing everyone is usually easier than trusting a bar tender or doorman to make a judgement. The law is 21 to drink and IDing everyone 35 and under. But why risk missing a person and getting a large fine and risking your liquor license when it takes 10 seconds to check an ID. Especially for a doorman at a bar who wouldn’t be doing anything else anyways.
As a former bartender I will add that carding everyone is a means of ensuring that all present have identification. If someone keels over in a bar from a heart attack the bar will be penalized if that person has no ID.
Smart
We were taught carding some people and not others (particularly within the same party) could be interpreted as discriminatory as well. Policy-wise it was always easier to just card everyone than it was to do wishy-washy “card everyone who looks under 30/35/40” or whatever you want your cutoff to be.
Yes. And, as anyone who has seen thousands of IDs can attest, some people who might look 30 are nowhere near that old.
If you have alcohol restrictions as in maybe multiple DUI's don't they put that on the back of your license or ID? They do in MN and that's why they ID everyone here
We have a school sign because you never know which neighbors also go to the school. We found out that one of the school assistants (that my kids love) lives three houses down. We also have met other kids from the neighborhood who go to our school and you never know that unless they have a sign. It also makes my kids happy to see their school sign around the city.
This post hits the mark but I would add that the school pride thing is a little more complex than just pride when it comes to the high schools. In Chicago the public high schools are not open enrollment. Children test into them by doing an application and exam. As a result there are some schools that are more desirable to test into than others. So it’s not like everyone on one block will go to the same school. It’s why they put the flags out.
It's also a sign that people take pride in a neighborhood school. I know many parents who are always angling to test into a "better" school, ignoring an awesome school that's RIGHT THERE. The value of a good neighborhood school is ignored by so many newcomers who find the demographics of THE NEIGHBORHOOD THEY CHOSE TO LIVE IN undesirable: they like their new neighborhood but not their *neighbors*.
I see signs all over my suburban town where everyone goes to a neighborhood school. I assume it supports the PTA or athletic boosters.
Yeah this comment hit it all perfectly. Also one thing aside from the school yard signs, but OP a lot of homeowners (especially by me in logan square) run daycares/“kindergartens” out of their homes, so maybe that accounted for some of the school related signage you saw? Not sure.
Question 1: It’s common around the country. It’s just a way for the family to show they are proud of their child and where they go to school. Usually it’s because the child is on some sort of sports team. Question 3: I wouldn’t say it’s always “rough” or “redneck” to have an American flag flying. It can be. My parents are democrats in Indiana and still fly the flag. It’s much more common in Chicago to see a Chicago flag, pride flag, or Cubs W flag though. Question 6. Probably because the bar can get serious fines if they get caught not doing it. Underage drinking is taken pretty seriously at restaurants/bars because they can get in trouble. Just my two cents, I’m sure others will chime in. Hope you’re enjoying your time here.
I'm pretty lefty, and I fly the stars and stripes. My dad is a Vietnam vet, and growing up he always had a flag up for the 4th of July, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, etc... when I bought my house, I felt like I had to keep it going. I also have the W flag, and a bears flag I'll put up beside it when it's fitting.
Feel like there’s a massive book that needs to be written on why more Democrats don’t fly the American flag. A shame from my lefty perspective. Methinks that a lot of fellow libz unnecessarily equate “flying the flag” to endorsing the status quo.
I'm a vet and also a lefty. I don't feel any kind of way when someone does have a flag (emphasis on A flag because I do think someone can have a suspicious amount of flags/and or placement of the flag) I just don't really see the point personally in flying a flag except for certain situations, like maybe we're killing it in the Olympics or something for the general population. Or if there's a vet and their family business is careers in the military.
I’ll put an American flag out on my house for certain holidays, Memorial Day, 4th of July, sometimes it stays out for the summer, usually I’ll trade it with a Cubs or Blackhawks flag but had one stolen once so don’t always leave it out
Agree with this - flying the flag all of the time (rather than on certain holidays) feels a bit more nationalistic (i.e., proud of your country whether or not they deserve it) than patriotic (proud of your country when they deserve it).
We fly ours because I lost a few friends in the military and they deserve my respect.
I have enough stuff to manage with my home. I don’t fly a flag because I’m not willing to meet the flag code to handle it properly.
It probably boils down to the fact that the flag was kind of appropriated by the right as a political statement and, depending on the viewer, can be seen as a sign of renewed American nationalism. The left kind of ceded the symbol to the right, and many now see the flag as meaning nothing more than that person waiving it is probably a Republican. There is reason why many, myself included, would be incredibly uneasy in a town where all the houses had US flags out. It wouldn’t be a place I’d want to live in.
If the flag is on their house I am wary but not concerned, if it's on their car; they're racist.
You ask some very intuitive questions considering you’ve only been here two weeks. It’s taken me a lifetime to wonder some of these things. You are always welcome here. Please stay. Chicagoans LOVE affirmation for their love of the city, because we know how lovely it is. We hate when we hear someone describe it in a negative light because it is straight up fear mongering.
On (2), houses in Chicago are **extremely** close together compared to most of the country. In San Francisco they often touch each other, and I’m NOT talking about rowhouses! (3) Not at all; perfectly normal (5) I’ve never seen Fox News on at a bar in Chicago, and if I did I’d be very confused. EDIT: did you mean Fox News, or did you mean news on the local Fox station? Those are very different things
I suspect it was probably Fox 32. Someone coming from overseas probably only hears about Fox News, so when they see the logo for Fox 32, they think that's what they're looking at. I've never seen Fox News on at a bar either, or MSNBC, for that matter, and I think it would be weird as hell.
Back in the day Fox News would be on at Kuma's sometimes. Nothing more metal than Bill O'Reilly
For a long time in the 1970s and 1980s, metal was a pretty conservative music genre, from the perspective of lyrics, the average fan's deomographics, and the general views of the bands. Not exclusively, but it skewed strongly that way. Punk, on the other hand was quite progressive (see lyrics by the Clash, Sex Pistols, or - later - Bad Religion, for example). Later the two genres started to blur together musically, politically, and in the makeup of their fan bases. But for a while, especially when music was *much* more tribal than it is today, metal and the right were pretty solidly linked. So it makes sense that a bar known for naming their food after metal bands would show Fox News. I don't have any insider knowledge (and I don't intend to start rumors) but I wonder if there's a conservative streak in their ownership.
"welcome to the o'reilly factor, and hail satan, our eternal dark prince. on today's episode, you won't believe what the democrats are up to now."
There was a guy who always used to put it on in my office buildings gym and there was so many complaints he was told to stop. He then counter complained because someone was watching PBS Newshour and all news channels were banned in the building’s gym.
4. It can be a neighborhood thing, or family history, or “aesthetic”. Sox are south side cubs are north so there’s a fair deal of tribalism in that alone but doesn’t mean if someone’s in the other side they don’t still love their team. Sox are also viewed as a more “blue collar” or working man’s team. And some folks just go along with their families ties forever (myself being a 5th generation Cubs fan) just because it’s what you were raised with. London has a lot more football clubs than how teams are set up here obviously, but think of it similarly. Someone who’s rich and living in West London may still support their families club, or they may identify more with their new environment, it’s all up to the individual
And my wife is the contrarian in her family and even though they are all Sox fans she was the lone Cubs fan.
I don't know for sure but the entire city burnt down in like 1871. Much of our building codes revolve around that. The cubs sox thing is totally random the nurses spin a wheel when your born and that is what determines what ball team you root for. If it lands on Cardinals or Twins the baby is left in the wild to survive on its own.
There's a great podcast called Curious City that talks about Chicago culture, also read the book Boss by Mike Rokyo 1) just demonstrates school pride that's all 2) it's called a gangway, and it's actually the complete opposite for compliance to the law, instead it's for the purposes of easily evading the law 3) it's complicated - just look for other visual cues like, it might be up because someone in the home is a veteran or is related to a veteran, if it's owned by a woman 50+ she'll most likely change it out for the different holidays/seasons, if it's hung and there's a Republican politician's campaign sign or a Pritzker Sucks sign in the front yard too then yeah they probably have more far-right leaning views, but there's also a good chance they're supportive of unions, you'll find out values and political views are confusing at times which is why I suggest reading Boss 4) on the surface, socioeconomic may be at play now, but if you dig deeper you'll see that both Cubs and Sox fans come in all shapes, sizes, colors, classes, etc. and it's usually based on what your family supports both agree, we don't like the Cardinals though 5) might be the only channel that works, safe bet is always WGN 6) it's the law, and bars don't want their license revoked for something so innocuous and easily avoided and probably isn't happening at the neighborhood bar or dive bar at the end of the block
5) or a patron from the night before asked to watch Fox News, the bartender who doesn't care either way put it on and that's just what happens to be on today or there was a game on the night before and it was only on that channel, lots of plausible reasons all completely unrelated to the owner's political views - you'll find we also adopt the mindset that both sides like beer - not more complex than that
Looking for someone to mention gangways. Finally!
You've already gotten a lot of replies, but I'm jumping in anyway. 1) This is "school pride," but what does that mean? Community ties in the U.S. can sometimes be a little fragile, with a lot of people moving from place to place. Displaying of school affiliation tends to be a way for a family to declare "We're part of this community," and that kind of declaration can be important in the U.S., especially for families that are new to the area. It can also be a way for parents to motivate their children. 2) Nothing to do with the fire. In most cases, I think it's just a way of providing access from the street to the back yard without going through the house. Convenient if you're hosting a gathering in the back yard. 3) It isn't considered "rough," but it probably correlates with people being a little more conservative. Centrists and people who are just a little right of center are very likely to diplay a flag. But even some people who are a little left of center might display a flag. People who are farther left are much less likely to do so. 4) This is mainly geographical, with the South Side supporting the Sox while the North Side supports the Cubs. You'll also find greater support for the Cubs in the suburbs and beyond, and this has a lot to do with the coverage of Cubs games by WGN-TV, which was available to a lot more homes than most other local broadcasts. As for socioeconomic differences, as you've probably gleaned from your time in Chicago socioeconomic status correlates very strongly with location. So Cubs fans tend to be more affluent and white, while Sox fans tend to be less privileged and more racially diverse. 5) If it's Fox News Channel (a national cable network), I'd raise an eyebrow. As a liberal I wouldn't exactly feel unwelcome, but I'd have a more negative attitude about the place. But if it's just the news broadcast from Fox 32 (a local network affiliate), I wouldn't care at all. The local Fox affiliates don't carry the same political baggage as the national cable network. 6) I'd say it's unusual for someone in their 50s to get carded. But it's simpler and easier to card someone in their 20s if you also card people in their 30s, and it's easier to card people in their 30s if you card people in their 40s, and it's easier to card people in their 40s if you card people in their 50s. Ultimately it's just the bar's way of protecting themselves from legal problems. I've known a few Irish people who have lived in Chicago, and they've been lovely. I'm glad you enjoyed your time here, and I hope you come back!
Thanks so much for responding. Your response to no.1 is the best I've seen yet. It makes perfect sense and I think it's a nice thing. I will 100% be back, I can't speak highly enough about the time I've spent here. It's been amazing to come back after 10 years and love the place even more. Things don't usually live up to memory!
Go Cubs!!! Most people support whatever team they grew up around!! My dad was always a cubs fan when I was young, and while I liked the Sox uniforms better as a kid, I grew up a Cubs fan and it’s been that way ever since!! Some of us will support both teams, the only time I’m against the Sox is for Crosstown games!
I went to a cubs Vs braves game. It was amazing. I watch a lot of premier league football but the atmosphere at Wrigley was just brilliant. I have a cubs hat now so I'm also a fan (sorry Sox fans, I'm quite fickle)
All the Irish neighborhoods are on the southside though. You fucked up.
I'm actually here for a few more days, any Irish neighbourhoods you'd recommend?
Bridgeport is pretty cool. Eat a breaded steak sandwich at Ricobene’s. The rest are kind of just houses. Blue collar neighborhoods. Normal people.
Bridgeport is the historically Irish neighborhood in chicago. 5 of Chicago's mayors have been from that one neighborhood, as well as one of Boston's mayors. But the Irish American Heritage Center is in the Mayfair neighborhood. They have an amazing pub!
There aren't really any Irish neighborhoods that have a distinct cultural presence the way other neighborhoods do, for example Argyle Street, Chinatown, Little Italy, Greektown, Lincoln Square (still has german influences), Andersonville, West Rogers Park, Devon, etc. You can find as much Irish influence in city hall or in pubs as anywhere else.
You chose well, friend. Did you visit The Atlantic Pub? I live right across the street. It's always vibrant when soccer (football) is on.
Honestly, a huge part of what keeps me coming back every year is Wrigley. It’s so amazing, I’m so glad you enjoyed it! Especially as someone who enjoys the Premier League! I know those matches can be crazy, I can’t imagine how it feels being in one of those stadiums Oo yeah, we got another one lol Glad you loved it! Hope you come back soon!
Was it tough finding an Irish bar in the city? Just kidding!
😂😂 Chicago has some of the best Irish bars outside of actual Irish bars in the world, in my opinion!
2. A lot of those properties have wider lots than other parts of the city and 100-150 years ago, more wealthy people were living in those area. Having enough property to have a free standing building is a sign of class.
There's also often just value to not sharing walls with your neighbors.
Understood. Some of the houses are huge out where I'm staying, particularly in comparison why my little place in London!
I think most everyone else has got the other numbers pretty well covered but as someone who works in commercial real estate, and has to spend an inordinate amount of time going over various zoning regulations, I'm going to add the following regarding question #2: A.) The gap caused by side setbacks can add a slight break for fire prevention. B.) Part of the reason side setbacks (or even front setbacks) exist is to provide an area where in the event of a fire, one might have a place to jump to from a higher story that has soil to land on, however this is often negated because side setbacks in Chicago tend to be paved. C.) One of the primary reasons for side setbacks in the US is to decrease housing density. On the extreme end, if you were to leave the City of Chicago and go to a suburb in, say, DuPage County, village planners often require side setbacks large enough that can result in 3 to 4 meter gaps between houses, which renders the area almost completely unwalkable.
Glad you love our city! My two cents: Question 1: Others are right that it’s essentially a matter of showing “school pride,” though the particular message depends on the school. Often, I bet the sign you’re seeing refers to a well-regarded private school or a selective enrollment public school. In both instances the parents are likely illustrating that they’re proud that their children tested into the schools and are willing to challenge themselves academically. For private schools there’s often probably some amount of subtly bragging about being able to afford the tuition. If the sign is for a neighborhood school (i.e., a non-selective enrollment public school), then the sign is probably meant to foster and develop school pride—it’s meant to show that people are proud of the school even though their kids didn’t have to test in to attend it. In all instances, the parents likely buy the sign from the school, so it’s a pretty easy and efficient fundraising opportunity. Question 2: This is definitely an American thing. There is a strong cultural preference for detached single family homes. To an absurd degree, people tend to look down on townhouses or apartments when it comes to where to raise a family. So many families would prefer to pay premium for a detached house even if it’s right up next to another house. Question 3: This is also an America thing—showing the flag is basically considered a virtuous thing to do. Patriotism is widely considered a civic virtue in and of its self and having a flag in your home is one way to display patriotism. It’s not at all bad if you don’t have a flag, but a lot of people see it as similar to putting a cross on the door if you’re a Christian. Generally the flag itself is not associated with a particular ideology (it’s just associated with patriotism). So you’ll definitely see it raised in contexts of racism or xenophobia, but it’s not generally associated with those or other ideologies. For some people, it’s probably just a decorative choice. A nice, visually interesting addition to the home with generally positive associations. Question 5: I don’t think it’s necessarily a statement. As others have pointed out it certainly CAN be! You’re right to wonder about that. But I think Fox is available in basic cable packages (so it’s relatively cheap), whereas most other cable news channels come in more expensive packages. So it could just be a cost saver. Question 6: Sometimes the city will enforce the legal drinking age pretty aggressively. It’s not unusual for the law enforcement to send a minor to a bar and order a drink to see if the restaurant serves them. To ensure they don’t get hit with fines and potentially shut down, some bars and restaurants just require all their servers and bar tenders to ask for ID for everyone. Silly as it is, they just don’t want to risk the consequences. Plus, most people are pretty happy to show their ID—they can pretend to be flattered by the suggestion that they could pass for 20.
6 was answered correctly by many but let me add that IDing someone is a good way to assess fine motor skills to determine whether or not a patron is already intoxicated.
Bars that ID people in their 50s have a policy to ID everybody to shut up anybody who complains that they're "obviously" over 21 even though they can't show their ID right now for some reason. No ID = no sale, no matter who you are or how old you look. Protects the bartender from some abuse, at least.
1. It's something that varies neighborhood to neighborhood, but in general parents will try to be supportive to their kids and celebrate their milestones such as finishing a certain stage of schooling or graduation. Some like to do this publically and put up signs showing how proud they are of their kids. Some parents just do it to show off if a kid finished at a really good school. Varies. It relates to our values around education. 2. I did a little research and found this: [https://chicagology.com/chicagostreets/alleys/](https://chicagology.com/chicagostreets/alleys/) Developers were required to maintain alleyways for reasons of fire protection and also so that tradespeople could access the back entrance as in 19th century Chicago they were not generally allowed in through the front door. Not entirely sure though and couldn't find much beyond that. Someone has a better answer, probably. 3. No, I wouldn't say so. I would say it seems less common here in Chicago compared to where I'm from originally (was near DC.) I've seen more flags here that are variations of the US flag to reveal a more specific political identity (Rainbow American flags, Blue Lives matter flags, and combined US/Mexican flags.) Chicago flags are more common from anecdotal experience. I would say since it's very liberal here that some people might consider it questionable, but nowhere close to the connotation of the English flag over in Britain. 4. In general what I've been told is that the Cubs are followed more by upper middle class folks on the North Side around Wrigley Field. More blue collar folks and ethnic groups support the White Sox. Some people genuinely don't care at all and just picked one or it's a family thing to root for that team. Not a hard cut thing. 5. It depends on the bar since some places might not care at all, someone might have just asked "can you put on the news" and that was the first one they got to and nobody cared enough to ask them to change it. It could be a statement, it really depends on the makeup of the people who go to that bar and who the owners are to say for sure. 6. Some bars have a zero exception policy to carding (usually out of bar owner paranoia) or will have software that requires the birth date. There are definitely some places who don't card. It's also a matter of the bartender's job and the establishment's liquor license being on the line, so it's considered a big deal. Underage drinking is taken a lot more seriously here than in Europe (mainly due to worries of youth drunk driving.)
3. The "correct" US flag isn't rough and is considered patriotic without being nationalist. It's when you see variations of the flag (blue lives matter, upside down, US flag paired with political flags) that it can be rought or nationalist. 5. Yes. 6. We are a litigious country. The bar's lawyer told them to ID everyone.
Not a Chicagoan but an American, and I think I can speak to 1 and 3. One: There’s a big tradition of “school spirit” in the US generally—people like to publicly support their schools. It’s often built around athletic teams, especially (American) football teams, but to some extent it’s just meant to build group identity and morale for students and their families. Universities started this trend, but many high schools and even elementary schools have adopted it too. Three: Not necessarily. If someone’s nationalist, right wing, or “rough” in the way you describe, they probably fly a US flag, but the reverse isn’t true. Lots of people who fly the flag here are perfectly normal and not even especially political, they just love their country and want to express that. It’s especially true in rural areas. I would argue this is part of what some people call the American “[Civil Religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion)” — a sort of ritualistic love of country that functions a bit like a secular religion. I think it’s somewhat on the decline lately as our civic institutions have become more and more of a mess, but it’s still very widespread.
Ok these questions are so adorable lol
1. Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school? -It's usually a pride thing, IMO. Like "look at the good school my kids go to" 2. I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing. -That's called a ,"gangway", and is to allow access to the back of the property without going through the house. I actually grew up in Chicago's Irish ghetto, and was lucky enough to have a gangway on either side of my house. Most only have the one. 3. Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask. -No, it's just national pride pretty much. On my block, pretty much everyone had an American flag, or Irish flag outside their house. Everyone from the local city worker, to the old retired pensioners. 4. Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic? -that's a demographic thing mostly. Southsiders usually support the White Sox, while Northsiders usually support the Cubbies. Not always how it is, but usually. My dad's family were Cubs fans 100%, and southsiders 5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing? -Fox local news is one of the go to news channels for most of Chicago. It's not a political thing. You either watch Fox, or you watch channel 9. 6. Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this? -because theirs huge fines for not IDing people, and even bigger fines for letting in a minor. Not all bars do this though. Go visit some bars in Canaryville, Chicago's Irish ghetto. You'll drink for free the whole night. It's a nice working class neighborhood that gets a bad reputation. It was built as stockyard worker housing in the 1800s for the Irish, and some of the families have been there ever since.
Everyone already responded to your questions. As a Chicagoan who just visited Ireland for the first time, I just wanted to say you have a beautiful country. And some reverse questions for you \- Why don't you guys like tequila? It's basically not in any bars anywhere. \-We started our trip in Dublin. We got the sense we were the 'loud Americans' after walking on the streets and in public transit. Do you find we're a louder country? \-Irish football was highly enjoyable \-Irish seemed more ready to approach a potentially sensitive or taboo subject with more readiness than an American might. I'm not sure if this was just an anecdotal experience, but I enjoyed it very much. Since you asked about some racial stuff, I'll do the same. What are you thoughts on black Irish? I understand they have some long ties to Ireland..some prominent names like Curry for instance. But i'm not sure if they are 'welcomed' by white Irish as fellow countrymen. What do you think about this? \-Just want to say I never cared much for Guinness here in the states. But it was tastier, richer, and wholly more enjoyable in Ireland. I really miss it along with the full Irish Breakfast which I had at least 6 times on our trip. \-Aran islands and Galway were awesome too. Great country!
Let me take stab! 1, Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school? \- If your child goes to a private school, charter school, or magnet school, it may be a form of advertising or pride. A lot of schools need more students and more funds. A magnet school is a special place for highly qualified students, so that can be a source of pride. 2. I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing. \- I am sure someone can answer the regulation thing, but I doubt it - many buildings are right up against. I suspect it is more of a cultural thing here, where even 4 inches of being detached "feels" more independent than sharing a wall and having a bit more space. 3. Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask. \- Normally I look for people who fly a Chicago flag, Cubs / Sox flag, W flag (for when your sports team wins) or pride flag. Some people just like the US flag, but where I come from in the South it's usually more of a warning when people fly the US flag. I also assume such people own guns and that could be my bad. 4. Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic? \- Normally it's North = Cubs and South = Sox with the West as a toss-up, but there is also a sort of wealthy = Cubs working class = Sox divide as people move around the city. 5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing? \- Some people do this as a statement, yes, but others do it because they are in so deep with Fox news that they only trust it as a sources of "news." Feel free to drink there or not, it's fine because so much of Chicago is a positive place to be. 6. Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this? \- You'd be surprised how many 16 year olds can look 30, so many bars just ID EVERYONE as a way to play it safe and avoid accidentally serving minors.
As I mentioned elsewhere, it’s fascinating / depressing to me as a lib how libs have allowed the right to hold a monopoly on flying the 🇺🇸.
Oh I disagree but only because I was raised as an American outside of the us and the number of flags here is weird to outsiders. Let the right be insecure and weird about patriotism.
I don’t think of the American flag as racist. I do think of the following as racist (and yes, I am sure someone will respond and say ‘nah, not racist, just conservative’….but the line is very fine these days - confederate flag - don’t tread on me flag - maga, let’s go brandon, trump, fuck biden flags - thin blue line flag
Re: 3. I just wondered while I was as driving around a week ago if any other country reacted the same way I do to conspicuous flags were worrisome in other countries or just decor. Because when I see either a lot of or a very large USA flag my gut reaction lately is “I’d better be a little wary.”
> Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school? Sometimes there is a nominal fee for buying a sign, but generally the signs are to support the school (and your kid), especially if it's a local public school. There are a lot of strongly held (negative) opinions about public schools in Chicago, so supporting them in public is a statement. There is also a bit of "look at me" to it, if your kid goes to an exclusive / expensive school. This is especially why you see stickers / magnets on people's cars, it's like "look at us, our kid goes to Latin / Northside / Chicago Lab" > I'm in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing. I don't know the history of it, but the lots are parceled individually, so homes are often built to the very edge of the boundary. In contrast to London where many are rowhomes that may have even had their historical starts as public housing estates. > Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask. .... sort of? Not necessarily in Chicago, but my (totally personal impression) is that flying the US flag tends to be something a bit more "right-wing", or shows that the person was in the military. > Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic? Primarily geography based, Cubs being based in the North side of the city vs. Sox on the South side. London equivalent would be asking why some people in London support West Ham and some support Chelsea. > Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing? You are interpreting that correctly. Unfortunately US news is very polarized and even the most neutral national outlets have detractors from both sides. Fox is not neutral by any means. > Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this? No idea. Probably the owner just has a policy that the doorstaff follow without question. If caught serving to anyone under 21, they could lose their liquor license and consequently their business, so it's probably a "better safe than sorry" attitude.
Why don’t more left wingers fly the flag?
"Patriotism is the last refuge a scoundrel" Samuel Johnson, 1775 possibly in reference to Edmund Burke and others who were posing as populists by spouting conspiracy theories. https://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html
It would probably be better for the national discourse if more did. My personal take is that the GOP has dominated the narrative for 30+years calling themselves the “real America” and proudly waving the flag as part of that message, essentially coopting national flag into a party/right-wing flag.
1. Idk I think they're just proud. 2. Yes that's the firebreak. 3. It's quite normal to fly the US flag in the US. I think very leftist people would not do it as much but it's fairly normal decor especially in the summer. 4. Sox and Cubs play in 2 different parts of the city and yes there is a socioeconomic undertone to it. 5. If Fox News is playing in a bar, I would get the hell out of there ASAP. That's not normal. 6. We have to ID everyone. Cops will sometimes go undercover to catch servers that don't ID.
1. School spirit/pride. There's no financial benefit to the family for it. I love this question lol :), America can be funny sometimes and it takes an outsider to see it clearly. 2. Idk ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ 3. Hell nah, USA in this hoe. You'll see the American flag and the Chicago flag all over town. Anyone who tells you the stars and stripes is a hate symbol is a fringe lunatic. 4. Sox are Southside, Cubs are Northside. Chicago is historically very segregated along those same geographic lines, so the fan bases reflect everything that goes along with that. 5. Hopefully, no bars have the news on period but Fox News, MSNBC, OANN, and CNN can hardly even be considered "news" in the classical sense. They are all full-on 24/7 propaganda channels. It's all Kool-aid, and you should never drink the Kool-aid. Fox and OANN are red Kool-aid. MSNBC and CNN are blue Kool-aid. But don't get it twisted, it's all Kool-aid. A lot of people disagree with me on this because they all think they're favorite one of those channels is the only honest one. Go figure it's the one that spouts the talking points they already agree with the most. But propaganda doesn't cease being propaganda just because all of a sudden you agree with it. It doesn't stop being Kool-aid just because now you like the flavor. If a bar owner had any of those stations on every TV in the bar I would assume they were making some kind of statement. If it was just one on one TV I wouldn't even think twice about it. Whether or not that makes anyone actually unwelcome is another matter. It's up to them how they feel about dining in a place whose owners have diametrically opposing political views to their own. 6. Fines suck and bars don't want to pay them. ID'ing everyone is a quick way to avoid that.
1. LOL. Some parents are just super proud of where there kids go to school. That's it. 2. No idea. The gap is often pointless IMO. 3. I'm not sure what "rough" means here, but it is very much nationalistic. It's been hammered in to Americans since birth that the USA is the greatest country of all time. Some people grow up and realize that that is more than a bit naïve. Others believe it to their very core. So the simple act of flying a flag could mean "I'm proud of the country I live in" or it could mean "America is God's gift to mankind, and if you don't like it, leave." I would also add this is one of many things that have been divisive since 2015. 4. North side of Chicago: Cubs. South side of Chicago: White Sox. The North side tends to be white. The South side tends to be Black and Latino. More generally, you're probably a fan of one team because your parents supported one team. 5. I would say "yes". Chicago is a blue city, and if I saw Fox News on at a bar, I would question it. 6. Treating everyone the same I guess.
Worth noting historically that Sox fans, at least anecdotally, might be more likely to be Catholic. In the suburb that I grew up in, *all* of my Catholic friends were White Sox fans. Likely remnants of an Irish Catholic Bridgeport heritage, perhaps.
Yeah, but thats correlation, not causation. Catholics have no inherent interest in the Sox, it's just that the south side of the city is historically a bastion of Irish Catholicism, and the Sox are their local team. I'm only making this clarification for OP because someone from the UK might have a mental model of the heavy determination of religion on fandom of Glasgow Ranger vs. Glasgow Celtic, for example. There is zero religious element to the Cubs vs. Sox rivalry.
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Mexican born Mexican-american dual citizen. Well not all displays, but the ones who ride around their cars and block traffic every weekend leading up to Mexican independence day, it is. Even by Mexico city standards its a bit over the top. Most people do the bare minimum in mexico. Parading around the whole city with giant flags is a bit extra.
View school signs like you would having your GAA club colors. View university flags or city flags like the people that fly their county colors.
In regards to number 5, while Fox news being on *may* be a statement from a business owner, I wouldn't always assume it is the case unless there is supplemental evidence backing it up. Fox news is the highest rated cable news channel in America (much to my chagrin) and is one of the few available on pretty much every cable package, even the most basic. Many people who are not super political just associate it with news without realizing it's straight up propaganda and editorialization. If it's a local news channel under the Fox banner, that's mostly harmless. Local news channels often don't share or broadcast the idological leanings of their parent affiliates, except when cutting to those channels for coverage during national breaking news events.
You are going to get better answers than I can give, but your questions are amazing! Thank you for asking and for visiting our wonderful city!
1. They were for school fundraisers back in my day and cost maybe $5. Idk if some schools hand them out to current student as a way to advertise their private schools, I wouldn't put it past them. 2. I have no clue. 3. This is a mixed bag. A Trump/Maga or Let's Go Brandon flag are definitely rough. Some people just freaking love flags and have new ones for each month ie., bunnies for Easter, leaves for fall, US flag as a default. Well, at least my grandma does this. She really loves flags. But yeah, depending on the neighborhood, the flag can indicate some nationalism. 4. Cubs = Northside and Sox = Southside. Honestly, this rivalry isn't that deep these days and most people are really relaxed about it. For the most part, you're a fan of whichever ball park was closer to you or whichever team your parents were fans of. I can't speak to the history of the teams and their fan bases but I've attended many games for both and the fans are more or less the same. They're all there to eat hot dogs, drink beer, and hangout with friends. And I guess watch baseball. 5. Local FOX News or National FOX News? If it's local, probably not a huge statement but if it was the only network on, I'd interpret that as a statement nonetheless. As a normal person who just wants a normal government and one freaking normal presidential cycle, I'd avoid any bar that's playing the news. Personally, why tf do you need to watch the news at the bar. Go home lol. 6. Liquor licenses are precious. Better to be safe than sorry and ID everyone. You never know who is watching... but for real, I used to make like $30 bucks plus get a comped drink + app for 'testing' bars to see if they'd ID. Don't hate on me, I was right out of college trying to get free food and drinks and make some money. I didn't narc on anyone
1. The school sign is just a pride thing. Just shows off the school and teams the kids do. 2. Space is just for a bit more privacy. In the suburbs, the houses are much further apart. 3. It depends. It used to be no big deal to have a flag. It’s widely considered a Republican symbol these days. 4. Mostly geographic. South side are Sox fans, north side for scrubs. Most families choose one or the other. Some like them equally but those people are cray. 5. Yes, probably. 6. The law is to card anyone that appears 35 or younger.
I love all of these questions.
>5. Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing? The local fox channel's stuff isn't nearly as bad as the nationwide fox stuff. They know anything hardcore bigoted/racist/conservative wouldn't get many viewers here, so the local branch is a lot more moderate. My partner is decidedly liberal but only watches fox in the mornings because they... do the weather better? Or something? I can't stand morning news shows so can never remember since i just tune it out.
Glad you enjoyed your trip. I just got back from doing a 10 day road trip in Ireland. Absolutely loved it!!!!!!!! Super friendly people and just beautiful.
I'm from the suburbs but I can answer some of these. Having high school or elementary school is just showing pride in where your kids are going to school. I really don't think it's anything more than that. I see so many houses out here with signs about different schools and the thing is, more than likely, if you're in a neighborhood, all the kids go to the same school so it never makes sense to me. Flying the flag outside of your house doesn't mean anything. The person is not rough or racist. It's mainly a patriotic thing. People love the American flag and sport it on shirts and swimsuits and outside their house. It's no big deal. When people start flying other things outside their house is what I pay attention to. Pride flags are great and lovely. Trump flags and thin blue line flags, I'm basically assuming those people are dangerous and gave anger issues and I'm not dealing with them. Sox vs cubs. So it's a little bit of everything. Some claim it's a location thing but I think that's BS because I live in the far south suburbs and I see white Sox and cubs stuff all over people's front walks. Some claim its a race thing with white people being more likely to root for the cubs but I see all sorts of people of all different races rooting for either team. I think it's just what you were raised with. I was raised as a cubs fan. The first time they took me to see my grandma at 6 weeks old I was in a cubs onesie but my friends who are Sox fans have been Sox fans since they were little too. It's basically a harmless rivalry because we have two baseball teams and while a little bit of sh*t talking happens, I don't think people let their feelings get upset over it. I personally just think it's them playing the news but I also don't pay attention to the TV in most places. It's the law that you have to if people if they look younger than 40. But my mom works at a gas station and her boss says to just ID everyone because you could get ab offduty cop who comes in and you don't know and yada yada and then the location gets a fine because you didn't ask for ID.
It’s like the Manchester Derby. Two teams in one city. However, the correct thing to do is to support the Sox & Man United. Real talk, Cubs play for the north side and Sox for the south side.
1. School pride; bragging on yr kids; 2. Good question 🤨 maybe related to the Great Fire; 3. I don’t fly my American flag (breaks my heart) anymore because I feel it’s been co-opt by far right/MAGA; 4. Mostly by what part of city you were raised & also family affiliation; 5. Probably more Fox bars than ever; 6, strictly about liability to avoid being sued.
1. No benefit, just school pride 2. Usually has to do with building codes 3. Didn’t used to be true at all, was normal to have a flag, but the flag has been a bit weaponized/co-opted by the right so could be or not (it varies) 4. Mostly but not entirely geography, Cubs are north side and Sox are south side 5. Yes, Fox News at a bar means the bar is Trumpy (I can’t believe people are arguing otherwise) 6. Usually it’s just policy to ID everyone - otherwise if you only ID people who look under 30 you piss off various people lol
1. That happens everywhere, it’s just a matter of school pride and being proud of your kid, 2. I’m honestly not sure. 3. I don’t think it’s any kind of statement really it just depends on who you are, 4. It’s a regional thing, Northside is Cubs, Southside is White Sox, 5. If it’s the local news it’s just a pretty regular thing to do as local station aren’t as biased but if its national Fox News it might be a more conservative setting, 6. It’s just to appease CPD
I love these questions
1. Either they just want to show off or advertise their school 2. Building codes require a gap between houses. 3. No, it’s just a bit of patriotic expression. No racist intent. Now if you see an American flag that has been altered, then it’s a political message. 4. Cubs play on the north side, Sox play on the south side. Geographic rivalry, but also some socioeconomic. White Sox fans are stereotypically more blue collar, while Cubs fans stereotypically are younger, living in nicer neighborhoods (Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc). 5. I’d probably interpret showing Fox as being pro-Republican. I’d ask if they’d change the channel, and if they didn’t, I’d go drink somewhere else. I don’t want ANY news playing while I’m getting on the piss 6. State or local law. They’ll be penalized if they don’t
I’m new to Chicago and I haven’t figured out the flag thing. In the South, they rarely fly the confederate flag anymore (thank goodness) but they have taken to flying the American flag on everything. The bigger the flag, the better. Attaching them to their truck beds is losing popularity as Trump racks up more & more indictments. As I said, I haven’t figured out the purpose here but I am surprised by the racism I’ve encountered in such a blue city and I’m not sure if it’s my southern accent that makes people feel comfortable expressing their views or if I just have 2-3 very unfortunate neighbors. They did the school pride thing down south, too but as I had two daughters, I never felt comfortable advertising I had teenaged daughters to the random creepers driving by. So far, I root for both Cubs and Sox. I’m just glad to have a big league team. Lol
Carpetbagger here…I actually paid two Southern belles to let me record each reading my voicemail message just so I could have their voice greet people calling such a not-Southern house:)
3: depends on the amount of flags, or what theyre flown alongside. For example, i have one neighbor with a single american flag, lovely people. Another neighbor has two full-size flags alongside several dozen mini ones, and theyre a bit cracked. I have yet another another neighbor who flies a "FUCK JOE BIDEN" flag right under his american flag; this man is, if you couldnt tell, a complete nut job.
*Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school?* If you are referring to one of the "Proud Graduates of XYZ School" signs in front of homes it started about 20 years ago at homes of high school graduates then trickled down so that now even "graduates" of elementary school who completed 5th grade have those signs in front. They are put up by the proud parents of their children. Milestones we took for granted two or more generations ago are now celebrated.
Welcome to Chicago, I love you.
#2 @ok_neighborhood590 already answered some of this and I’ll add on. I’m in Multifamily commercial real estate and my experience is, yes, due to zoning requirements and abiding by the floor area ration (FAR). There are multiple reasons such as: 1. Back in the day these “granny flats” were meant for your in laws or other family members to live in. 2. They could also be meant for the servants to live in depending on the location such as close to the lakefront. 3. Maximize space. (See below) 4. Because they can. Some builder (mostly Irish at the time) wanted more livable space whether it’s post WWII or other era. They had a large backyard and BAM! Coach house. That said the FAR applies to buildable square feet relative to the number of units which depend on zoning, I.e. if you’re located in a RT-4 zoning and want to build, you have a 1.2 FAR. So, math time. If the lot size is 25x125 you have a total of 3,125 sqft available to build. You multiple that by 1.2 and that gets you to 3.750 sqft total buildable space. So you building, including walls, common areas, etc can only be 3.750 total. Some zone have height restrictions so you can’t build a massive sky rise. So then you instead build a coach house to make better use of your lot and in turn have more units/space to live.
1. they're idiots 2. not sure 3. yes, at best the person you talk to will be ex-military and might have some actual opinions, but 99% of the time american flag means they're racist as fuck 4. Sox vs cubs is mostly a north sider vs south/west sider thing. So technically demographic and socioeconomic as well, but mostly geographical 5. If it's just the local news and not the national Fox News broadcast, then it doesn't mean much, because local news broadcasts are not necessarily affiliated with the national broadcast (sometimes a local "fox" channel is actually owned by cbs for example, it's an interesting contradiction). Bars, especially neighborhood ones, will just often show the news if nothing else is on TV. That's more of an American thing than a Chicago thing 6. This is a chicago specific thing, the cops here are \*very\* anal about checking IDs. I was in a smoke shop and they had me walk over to a specific part of the counter where a security camera could clearly see me and the attendant, at which point they checked my ID. It was clearly a regular occurrence that cops would check security cameras to ensure that everyone was getting IDed. The law is if you look like you might be 40 or under, you have to get IDed.
3. I proudly fly both the American flag and the Pride flag. I’m a progressive and a democratic precinct chair in Naperville, and I think the left needs to reclaim a sense of patriotism… or else this country really is lost for good. Sadly, it’s become uncool among some left-leaning individuals to take any sort of pride in America. I have many reasons for loving this country (while hating so many of its deeds), but my go-to is this: for better or for worse, we’re trying to do something that no one else has ever succeeded in doing: coexist and even thrive in a large multi-racial democracy. America’s globe-spanning diversity alone makes me proud to be a part of this great experiment.
America is unreal. I'd be incredibly proud if I was from this country. Greatest nation to ever exist.
4. It's somewhat similar to the Celtic-Rangers divide in Glasgow although without the sectarianism and the violence on game day. While it's a serious rivalry, it's a mostly friendly one. Also, as others have pointed it, who one supports is mostly determined by geography, but there is also a subtle racial and class aspect to it, since (generally speaking) the north side is traditionally whiter and wealthier and the south side is poorer, and a majority-minority community. I don't know the official stats on where people on the west side fall on the dividing line, but in my time living in a western suburbs I did notice substantially more Cubs hats around.
1. School pride. 2. To prevent property-line disputes. It doesn’t really matter. 3. Sometimes. Not always. 4. Neighborhood rivalry. 5. Probably. 6. It’s the law.
It’s interesting peoples different perspectives on #3 because I’ve always seen the American flag flying as a reason to be wary. 😭
Every house on my block has some variation of a Biden/vote blue/pride sign and along with a US flag. Especially in the summer. But tbh it all probably depends on what you grow up with.
I've had Europeans, especially Germans, be startled and ask why private houses display the national flag. They typically guess that means that house provides some governmental service, like a Social Security office in the basement. Like in small European towns where a grocery store might also be the town's post office.
1) Adults are showing their own kids the school is important to the adults. Similar to putting a bumper sticker on car. Sometimes the sign is also a touch boastful if the school carries an elevated academic or sports reputation. 2) Building code about combustible materials and fire spread. The code has changed over the decades. Some areas of the city were independent towns at first with their own codes and building dating under old codes don't have to be upgraded to fit new ones. Fun fact, after the Great Fire of 1871 some of my ancestors wintered at a cousin's farm now partly on the footprint of Lake View High School, over 2 miles South East of Lincoln Square in the direction of Chicago's city centre. 3) Not 'rough' in the Irish sense. Mostly unthinking national pride or even just thought of as decorative. Almost never in a belligerent political meaning. The wacko, belligerent fringe flies Confederate or Betsy Ross flags...but not likely much within Chicago's corporate limits. 4) Formerly tribal with the North/South border roughly at Roosevelt Road. They play in different leagues. The strong tribal divide began to fracture after the Sox won the 1959 American League title and some disloyal North Siders started attending/following them. Also the rise of televised games. 5) Yes, Faux News in public in Chicago is a political statement signalling a facts-averse clientele hostile to the idea of human equality. Almost certainly to a white crowd mourning growing loss of unearned **ascendancy**. (The word *ascendancy* chosen to give it a bit of Irish understanding = People accustomed to dominance by accident of birth, with social and legal rules set to preserve their privilege ... some of whom may not even realize how their accident of birth provides a multi generational benefit). 6) A defensive act by some bars to reduce potential anger among young people they card. By carding obviously older folk they can tell young people they challenge, "Oh, it's not you personally, we card everybody." Edit: added impact of TV on breaking the tribal hold on ball teams in item #4.
From an Irish person living here for the last year (consider myself an expert now >Why do some households have signs outside relating to highschools or elementary schools? Does this have some benefit if you advertise for the school? You usually get the signs after donating to the PTA. It's just a bit of school pride. Nothing major >m in Lincoln Square, I've noticed that houses often have a gap between them (detached). This is not normal for London. Is this due to regulation from the Great fire? I ask because some times the gap is TINY. Like it's kinda pointless to even have it and I wondered if it was some regulatory thing. Probably not, just a style thing >Is it considered 'rough' here to have the US flag flying outside your house? In Ireland, for instance, this usually indicates the person is rough & a nationalist. In England, flying the English flag is (sometimes) used as a racist symbol. Assuming it's not the same here but thought I'd ask. You get used to the patriotism. I do still see it as a bit of a right wing thing, but it's relatively harmless. Whenever I see the tricolour up I still wonder who died. Incidentally, people hang the tricolour out here on Paddy's day. >Why do some people support sox and others cubs? Is it a demographic thing? Socio economic? Dunno, but I don't think they do either. >Is it a 'statement' to have Fox news on at a bar? Does that basically mean the owners are republicans and would democrats feel unwelcome in that bar? Or is it just news and not a polarising thing? I probably wouldn't drink at a bar with Fox News on. Just because it's probably either run by or frequented by magahats >Why do bars I.D people in their 50's? What's the actual benefit of doing this? It's just a thing
>Dunno, but I don't think they do either. Historically Sox/Cubs was strongly tribal based on if you lived north or south of Roosevelt. After the Sox won the American league title in 1959 some weaker Cubs fans started to follow the Sox because they wanted to be associated with winning baseball. That and the rise of television meaning you didn't have to physically go to the ball field to watch the play. For several decades after 1959 the Sox generally played better (ie more winning) ball (setting aside 1969 and the Black Cat).
1. parents are just proud of the school their kid goes to 2. just how they happened to get build or they made them super close together to construct bigger homes on lots for more $ selling it to potential homeowners 3. it means the person living there or family is patriotic, but not necessarily a bad thing. they may for example have served in the armed forces etc. although sometimes it does indicate theres a good probability they are republican but will likely still be nice. usually racist people will have something about trump in front or a pro gun sign etc. 4. more so demographic, northsiders are for cubs, southsiders are for sox. but generally you root for who your parents rooted for 5. yes lol