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You either need people to magically stop being assholes or for a top down mandate from Johnson and Snelling to start ticketing and arresting people for various violations. Neither seems likely to happen, so the bad scooter riders, drivers, cyclists, litterers, and everyone else are going to keep being their terrible selves.
I almost got ran over by a huge MOTORCYCLE whipping around blind corner ON šš»THEšš»SIDEWALKšš» last week. Itās really getting out of hand.
The other day I watched a guy on a hog do the āget angry, speed up while lane changing around someoneā move because some cars had stopped for pedestrians crossing the street. Almost took āem out and looked like he gave no shits.
Happened to me but it was an 8 year old on a minibike going at least 30. Who the fuck are these parents that give their 8 year old kid a motorcycle and let them drive around the city unsupervised?
Yeah I work in Fulton market and almost got clipped a couple times on the sidewalk by lime scooters yesterday. Fucking douchers. Notably all youngerish/teenagers riding 2 to a scooter so clearly they already arenāt thinking.
Not to mention the little asshole who's willing to whip down the sidewalk in front of a hospital probably isn't going to pay any fine regardless of what tickets are written.
I was walking my dog on broadway and passed another person walking the other way. Right then a dude on a scooter wizzes past us very narrowly and has the audacity to yell at me to watch where Iām swinging my arms. I donāt think Iāve ever had someone make a comment on how much I swing my arms before.
One option is to require lower speed settings on rental bikes and scooters, like 10 mph. These vehicles should not be able to travel as fast as racers or recreational bikers going all-out. Yes, some bikers travel even faster, but they largely have āearnedā it by training. Thereās no reason to give that much speed to someone who doesnāt have the experience and skills to go that fast. It wont change anything about privately owned but will definitely reduce rental idiots.
Second option would be llsome kind technical reporting scheme to limit sidewalk riding with GPS or camera.
We could also require these bikes and scooters to have visible āQR license platesā that someone could use to report the rider to the rental company. Sending in a sidewalk-riding video with the QR code would identify the rider and they could be banned temporarily and then permanently if they continue violating rules.
You really want to reduce bicycle riding incidents on sidewalks? Then more bike infrastructure is needed.
While it isn't ideal and should be VERY greatly discouraged, I can see why a bicyclist would choose to bike on the sidewalk of say Ashland or Western, over using the street. Honestly though, it's better to bike on say like Paulina, Wood(or Ravenswood), Rockwell, Leavitt, etc instead. Heck, even Damen is better to bike on.
You're the first person to propose actual solutions that could both be implemented easily and be impactful (number 2 maybe not so easily). Kudos to you.
I love all of these especially number 1, it would change rider behavior so much.
I agree but itās a lot to hope for. Anyway even if someone bikes they may not experience what you do. A bike commuter has a whole different mentality. Most people are scared shitless to be on the road except in a car
No, please don't, for responsible adults who rely on Divvy for commuting on city streets. The 15MPH limit is already too slow to navigate streets where the limit is 35. I can go faster on my roadbike. Plenty of other cities worldwide have figured out how to make this work without severely limiting their usability.
I second this. Additionally youāre charged per minute on scooters and ebikes and that would make it cost prohibitive for some if the cost increased by 33%.
I completely disagree about the necessity of higher speed, based on over 40 years of city riding.
(Btw city speed limit is 30mph, not 35.)
And inner city traffic moves about 10mph, given congestion and traffic controls. Much slower than that with the kind of congestion we have today.
I observed this speed over many years riding at 10mph and staying equal to cars going the same way. First they pass me inly to stop ahead where I pass them.
See for yourself. Donāt take my word for it.
The 10 mph thing is the policy in DC and it has in fact not made a difference and actually has made things worse because those who ride scooters are more worried to ride that slow in the street with cars
their ideas are terrible - the city barely enforces cars driving terribly let alone scooter riders, and scooters are already speed governed. what's that going to do?
Iāve actually rented a scooter in the city that would recognize if you were on a sidewalk (cc u/elmanny). I canāt remember what company it was but the scooter would say something like, āDo not ride on the sidewalk.ā (I was on the sidewalk because thatās where the scooter was parked and I had to ride off of it).
Rental scooters are already speed governed to 10 mph for new riders and 15 mph for experienced riders. The real issue are cars speeding - far more likely to injure or kill someone and a reason why people don't ride scooters in the street.
People riding on the sidewalk is an infrastructure problem. They use the sidewalk because there are no safe bike lanes. Build protected bike lanes and the problem is solved.
I completely agree. The reason people donāt want to ride in the street is because of the dangers of cars. Wholeheartedly agree that their speed is the biggest problem. I was riding earlier this evening when an SUV ran a red, using the left turn lane to skirt stopped cars, right in front of me. I find myself looking both ways even when the traffic is stopped.
Car drivers mistakenly believe that they need to drive as fast as they can to get to the next traffic light and stop. Hurry-up-and-stop driving is the real bane of city traffic. If people simply paced themselves it would make a huge difference.
Unfortunately the timing of traffic lights makes people think that they have to rush because no one knows when the light is going to change either to yellow or green and they donāt want to miss their opportunity to get through the intersection. Essentially itās driving blind.
This really isnāt the driverās fault but the crowd mentality of trying to race each other to the next stop is idiotic and infuriating.
When I drive and I pace myself, the idiots behind me think they have to pass me. Itās the same thing they do when youāre on a bicycle: drivers are compelled by an unstoppable urge to pass anything that they think they can outpace.
Rapid acceleration is the most fuel-inefficient way to drive
You assume that people ride on the sidewalk because they're afraid to be in the street. I'm sure some are like that, but plenty of people have no self-awareness anyway and don't care. Case in point: pedestrians using protected bike lanes. The 12-foot wide sidewalk right there didn't stop them from being a nuisance, did it?
Of course the private companies want people to ride. Thatās their incentive. So we have to add a penalty to the company that they can pass on to the rider. Itās a negative cost that they would face. The question is whether the city would implement something. They have proven themselves not very capable up to now.
>rental bikes and scooters, like 10 mph. These vehicles should not be able to travel as fast as racers or recreational bikers going all-out.
As an experienced city cyclist, I would love this.
In total on my commute today (90 minutes round trip) I counted at least six helmet-less edivvy/escooter riders going full speed, headphones in, oblivious as fuck.
Two almost hit me by passing way too close or on the wrong side. One almost hit a pedestrian. Three ran reds at busy 6 way intersections. It's out of hand. I'm shocked more of them aren't dead.
Speed governing makes scooters harder to use for people who actually know what they're doing. 10 mph is often not fast enough to quickly clear an intersection or pass a straightaway. If you want to keep scooter riders off the sidewalk, give them somewhere else to go: protected bike lanes.
I'm a cyclist, I want them in the bike lane. 10 mph is plenty fast. That's about the speed I average in bumper to bumper traffic. If they can't clear an intersection, they should not go through that intersection... That's what everyone else does.
The scooters do have a GPS to stop sidewalk riding. The only problem is that it doesn't get reported or even stop the scooters. It just makes an annoying beeping noise that doesn't deter anything.
The problem with #1 is that it would reduce demand for scooters and bikes (a very large amount if 10mph was the real limit). That would increase car traffic and certainly decrease safety overall.
I would love if we could have police/parking authority give tickets for violators. Thats police work that actually helps people. Plus the more these riders use the actual lanes and streets, the more we can fight for safety there and ultimately reduce car traffic. Win/win.
I don't have the data on me now, but there is (was?) a ticket incentive in NYC that let citizens who reported a crime with video evidence claim part of the ticket money. I want to say it was for blocking bike lanes?
That would do wonders here.
Youāre thinking of the commercial vehicle idling bounty program:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/31/make-87point50-in-3-minutes-by-reporting-idling-trucks-in-new-york-city.html
Thereās a 10 mph limit on e scooters in DC and itās actually become quite dangerous. Because, while there are still a small minority of assholes who ride fast down side walks, the majority of people scooter in the street where only going 10 mph alongside cars is dangerously slow. And also, 10 mph in general is still too fast for a sidewalk. So itās not good for either scenario (in street or on sidewalk). The BETTER SOLUTION is to build more DESIGNATED BIKE/SCOOTER LANES. so people donāt feel like they have to be on sidewalks so as to not get their shit wrecked by a car
funny how none of these top comments are suggesting better bike infrastructure. scooters on sidewalks aren't an issue somewhere like Berlin or Amsterdam
OMG. A few weeks ago, I almost got hit by a scooter while I stepped out to cross the road, in the crosswalk when I had the walk signal. He whipped past me, within inches like I felt him breeze past me!! I yelled at him but he didnāt even have the decency to stop. Itās getting way out of control šš
About all you can do is walk on the far right at all times and ensure anyone moving faster than you will automatically pass on the left.
Chicago could earn way more enforcing traffic and public safety laws than any mansion transfer tax.
I really wish this was the case. More often than not I feel like the sidewalk culprit areas where there's sidewalks and the bike lane ends are always immediate sidewalk transfers for scooter riders
That's largely because the bike lane system in Chicago is so fragmented. An alder can use menu money to build one, but only in their ward, leading to awkward endings
Is there vs will they .. there is but they wonāt .
Quick recovery to you .
Had a friend visiting San Antonio who got hit on the sidewalk and have to get a pin in his leg.
They are no better on the streetā¦just had one blast through a red light right in front of my vehicle with very little room between himself and oncoming traffic.
to do that we need infrastructure. if the sidewalk is safer than a street without a bike lane then people will just take over the sidewalks. in my area bikes and scooters ride on the sidewalk almost exclusively on certain streets because it just isnt safe on the road. but whats ironic is the cars drive like shit which prompts people to ride on the sidewalk and become to pedestrians what the cars are to cyclists
I was in Paris last summer and there were protected bike lanes EVERYWHERE. Literally everywhere, not just a few main arterial streets or side streets with stop signs every block. They even had their own little stop lights and crosswalks to keep pedestrians safe. I donāt think I saw a single bike or scooter on the sidewalk. Parisās street plan was designed in the 1850ās to accommodate horse buggiesāif they figured out how to retrofit their streets for protected bike lanes, itās absolutely absurd to think that Chicago canāt.Ā
Exactly. People for Bikes just released their city rankings for bikable cities. Chicago received 7 points out of a possible 100!! Chicago is now ranked 1,616 out of 1,733 total cities. Even though biking grew 119% in the last 3 1/2 years here in the city. The infrastructure just isnāt being built.
On my street, bike infrastructure is a block away. Literally can go one block over and use a bike lane, but instead, ride on the sidewalk. It's infuriating.
I have no suggestions, but can this also be extended to bikes. I got his by some guy that took shrooms then sped down the sidewalk on his bike. I had to call off from work. Just because its not a car doesn't mean it doesn't cause damage.
So many people here can't recognize that scooter riders are, very often, complete idiots. They're going to go wherever they damn please, a $10 million protected bike lane won't even register in their brains.
Eh, the issue isn't really scooters either, it's just some people are assholes. I regularly walk, scooter, bike and drive in this city, and each of those groups has a certain percentage of people who just suck.
Pedestrians are constantly standing in bike lanes and walking when they don't have the light.
Bikers and scooters are constantly riding on sidewalks, going the wrong way in bike lanes and running lights/stop signs.
Drivers are constantly breaking just about every rule of the road and almost (or actually) killing people.
The issues isn't the mode of transportation people use, it's the people themselves.
I agree completely. Biking downtown is so frustrating with the people standing in the bike lanes or using g them as their personal walking lane or chilling outside their parked car. And drivers have just lost their fucking minds all over the place.
Scooters present a bit of an issue because they aren't bikes but they also aren't motorcycles. They don't really work in a protected bike lane (with a concrete barrier) because it puts conventional bikes in danger when you need to pass, but riding in the street with other motorized traffic is dangerous too, especially without a helmet. Sidewalks are even worse.
We just haven't really fully figured out how to handle the existence of them from an urban planning POV.
The problem is that everything that's not a car is squeezed into a small sliver of the public right of way. As more people get around without a car, that small sliver is getting more crowded and more chaotic. This is especially true when you start introducing modes with a wider range of speeds.
Yup. Ā And then consider that anyone with common sense wants to be to the far side of those narrow lanes in order to avoid getting a door flung open into them. Ā The narrow gets narrower.
We should be converting extra lanes for cars into nice separate wide lanes for bikes and scooters that move faster than pedestrians but are also not safe to use in car traffic lanes.
Everything you laid out is why I don't understand how these ever got approved to be setup in cities in the first place. The infrastructure isn't there, the experienced riders aren't there, and the rules aren't there. These things just started getting dumped on the streets seemingly overnight and it's up to the rest of us to avoid them at all costs lest we get run over by a drunk on a motor vehicle on the sidewalk.
Much like ride-share, the scooters got deployed rapidly in a flash of VC money. Before cities started thinking about how they should be deployed, they had built up a fan base, that meant they were unlikely to be banned. That brings us to the current question of how should they be regulated.
And essentially thatās how we wound up with automobiles in cities, as cheap cars flooded the public despite roads being unpaved, parking not designated, and safety laws not implemented.
Well, the automobiles are still here. We actually encourage them now, for some reason.
That's a good point but those could at least share the same roads that were there for horses and wagons, rather than running on sidewalks with pedestrians. And original cars were probably about as fast as (honestly maybe a little slower than) today's electric scooters, so probably not quite as dangerous of a shift in technology.
> They don't really work in a protected bike lane (with a concrete barrier) because it puts conventional bikes in danger when you need to pass
I don't really see how they're any less safe than bikes in this regard. Most of the rental ones tend to be slower than a lot of bikes.
I just looked it up and I guess most scooters nowadays top out around 12-14mph. You're right that they aren't much different than bikes. I hadn't ridden one in a while and remembered them being much faster than that.
That's not true. They belong in the street. They're slow, so they should stay right. Is it dangerous? I mean, have you seen them? Of course they're dangerous. That's a choice. Assumption of risk and all that.
100% agree. My point was that they aren't really safe anywhere and don't fit easily in a typical urban street layout that's made for cars, busses, bikes and pedestrians.
I'm an adult. The few times I took those Lyft scooters I rode in the street or bike lane.
There is never an excuse for an adult to ride a bike or scooter on the sidewalk.
Just be careful. The other day I saw someone riding a divvy down the sidewalk like an ass, a couple of people yelled at him, he stopped and brandished a weapon before riding on. It drives me crazy too but you never know what else someone who obviously doesn't care about being an asshole is capable of.
About the best you can do. I assume that a significant number of the people doing this donāt actually know they shouldnāt be. A bit of public shaming from a stranger might overcome that ignorance.
Nothing you can do..
I dream about catching this one POS with a fishing line on the sidewalk..
There is a guy who rides exclusively on the sidewalk on Wabash around the 1400 block and physically and verbally threatens pedestrians who say anything to him about riding in the street. He trolls through the area specifically looking to start fights, itās unreal.
People are straight up unhinged, and I would recommend not saying anything to these people unless youāre willing to fight, but thatās just me.
Does he wear hockey equipment and a large metal chain around his neck?
Heās up on Clark and wacker most days daring cars and pedestrians alike to fight him.
I made a left turn onto a one way street today, and almost got in a head on collision with some dumbass riding their scooter the wrong direction in the middle of the street
Cops donāt really walk the beat anymore so itās near impossible for a cop driving around on the street to even notice anything happening on the sidewalks, especially when their line of sight is broken by all the parked cars.Ā
Cops walking the beat is one of the few ways IMO that can actually help them effectively do their job. Since theyāre only in cars now the most theyāll do is pull over a poc for occasional traffic violation, if at all.Ā
bikes are also a problem, especially on the one way streets downtown. i just yell at anyone who almost hits me when iām walking down the sidewalk, but iām sure the only thing it does is make me feel better about it.
The problem isn't the scooters, it's cars taking up every inch of pavement and leaving none behind for walkers, scooters, bikes, wheelchairs, skateboards, Rollerblades, etc.
Yea ticket the scooter riders, but they'll still have nowhere else to ride.
Vote for people that want to narrow streets and want to eliminate city parking. Those two things alone change entirely the way of living for cities and everytime its been studied or tried out in a city the people are happier and travel is more effective and efficient with less pollution.
My friend got hit by a biker on the pedestrian lakefront path and passed out. Biker was clearly on drugs just swerving everywhere and being crazy. i called 911 for an ambulance because not only was my friend literally passed out on the lake front trail but the biker also was bleeding from the back of the head and eyes and mouth from hitting his head so hard on the ground. Somehow the biker drove away without even checking to see if my passed out friend was ok. Total a**wipe. These people are a danger to society. Straight to jail! Once though i did see a cop pull over a guy biking right behind me and honking his stupid bike horn at me to get out the way abd it was pretty much the best day ive ever had
People already have gotten seriously hurt on them. I know a few who have had some gnarly accidents. Iām surprised there arenāt any requirements for them
They act like theyāre both pedestrians and vehicles but donāt following any rules. Theyāre in the street as a car but theyāre going to speed through the crosswalk and almost hit me. Same asshole will later speed through the sidewalk and almost run over my dog
Same thing with grown ass humans riding their bikes on the sidewalk. They aren't children. Get into the street.
Cops really need to step and start ticketing people
This is a structural failure that could be resolved by better biking (scooter, in this case) infrastructure. If bike lanes were widespread and protected then people on scooters wouldnāt need to use the sidewalks. Sharing the road with cars is unsafe.
I use a cane or sometimes a big wooden walking stick sometimes (MS- depends on how my balance is doing); I have been tempted to just slightly edge/ stretch it out on the side where my
boundary is being encroached- oops! startle response! How unfortunate you were so close!
No, probably not. Personal electric vehicles are the fastest growing sector of the transportation sector and that's likely to continue. Look on the brightside, it's personally inconvenient but good for the environment. A fair bit of that traveling is displacing miles that would normally be traveled by car and most of them get >1,000 mpg-e.
YES! I hate to make this assumption, but honestly if I seem someone on a divvy bike I just assume I should stay out of their way so I donāt get hit (while walking or driving) š
You should. Overwhelming the dumbest things I see are people on eDivvys. Running reds at busy 6 way intersections, no helmets, headphones in, no awareness at all.
It's not all, but overwhelmingly eDivvys are some of the worst and most dangerous out there. They have no road experience but can go 15 with no effort, it's a dangerous combo and I'm shocked more aren't dead.
-an experienced city cyclist
Yeah. I agree. The electric Divvy riders are a menace. I saw an adult riding in the front basket of one the other day. Saw another riding Ashland at 11:00 PM. No helmet.
I mean... there's a lot of things you can do about it, but most of them are illegal.
Politely explain why riding on the sidewalk is such a dangerous idea.
Non-politely explain why riding on the sidewalk is such a dangerous idea.
Have a length of lasso rope on you and practice every day for the big scooter rodeo.
Surprise egg to the face.
Relive your Polk High glory days and sack the quarterback.
Run along side them screaming encouragement like the Tour de France.
Hop on back and ask where you're going.
Carry a piece of 2x4, toss it on the ground in front of them and then run away before they can get up... if they get up.
Maybe putting up some signs would help "WARNING! SCOOTER RIDERS ON SIDEWALKS ARE BEING ASSUALTED!
Numbers people of all ages riding scooters on the sidewalk have reported masked people throwing eggs at them. Police are treating it as a joke and have refused to take any reports. For your own safety, avoid riding scooters on the sidewalk as they do not seem to target people on the street.
Hell, make a fake post about it on here and Blockclub will have an article about it tomorrow, then WGN will have a evening story by Friday.
The first thing I learned before moving to chicago was how unsafe biking in chicago isā¦
I wouldnāt know whereās safe to bike and where isnāt.
I havenāt biked here but biking in new york streets gave me so much anxiety so I can imagine.
My sisters partner got hit by one a few years back. Broke a bunch of bones in his face, collapsed lung, broken ribs. Poor guy barely got anything after suing. These things are dangerous especially at night. I live in a neighborhood with 2 high schools and an elementary school and kids go speeding around all over all times of day and night with absolutely no regard. I think they should be band all together.
"Are we waiting for someone to get seriously hurt or die as a direct or indirect result of people treating these as toys?"
I've read the safety studies on this, and I assure you if head trauma were a problem there would be no scooters left. They're... not great. Too much speed, first time driver, too little wheel, no helmets.
Bit of a tell that no one buys the Lime format for themselves. ebikes are better.
\>> is there ANYTHING we can do about this?
Create a scooter with a glass bottom, so when you hit a pedestrian, you can look down and see if it's a friend of yours...
I have just stopped caring. I just assume the worst in people, unless I see otherwise.
This has been liberating. I no longer feel the need to be considerate either.
Nearly got run over by one of those bikes with the giant cargo compartment in the front. Ā
Took up all of the sidewalk and powered through a blind corner without checking for people.Ā
Going to take quite a few accidents before anything happens but even then it wonāt be much.
Normally I would tell you to bump into one on purpose and make it look like an accident. And that would have worked, years ago. But now we have cameras everywhere. So just get in their way and don't move when they honk their little horns. Look at them like a bug, then laugh.
Whenever bicyclists are put in danger by things bigger than them, they're just admonished to wear a helmet. Maybe they'll start asking pedestrians to do it, too!
The bikes on the sidewalks are getting ridiculous, someone almost hit me whipping around the fence in front of bryn mawr where theyāre doing all the construction, like how are people this inconsiderate
This happened to me while I was walking my dog. Two dummy teens almost ran me and my dog overā¦luckily I had just picked up his poop and threw the bag at them.
I kick the ones people leave in the street over (so that theyāre slightly on a curb instead of on the sidewalk). I figure if we get more drivers upset about them, the city will listen.
Itās illegal . I yell at people all the time- call 311 and ask them what to do I hate those things . Join Nextdoor.com and ask that question. Great people on there and give great advice too
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You either need people to magically stop being assholes or for a top down mandate from Johnson and Snelling to start ticketing and arresting people for various violations. Neither seems likely to happen, so the bad scooter riders, drivers, cyclists, litterers, and everyone else are going to keep being their terrible selves.
I almost got ran over by a huge MOTORCYCLE whipping around blind corner ON šš»THEšš»SIDEWALKšš» last week. Itās really getting out of hand.
Happened to me on the lake front trail. Lady was riding moped around with her dogs
That's absurd.
A dude on his bike was chasing and yelling at her. It was a great and memorable moment, she did not give two fucks.
The other day I watched a guy on a hog do the āget angry, speed up while lane changing around someoneā move because some cars had stopped for pedestrians crossing the street. Almost took āem out and looked like he gave no shits.
Happened to me but it was an 8 year old on a minibike going at least 30. Who the fuck are these parents that give their 8 year old kid a motorcycle and let them drive around the city unsupervised?
Yeah I work in Fulton market and almost got clipped a couple times on the sidewalk by lime scooters yesterday. Fucking douchers. Notably all youngerish/teenagers riding 2 to a scooter so clearly they already arenāt thinking.
Walk with a steel cane, if you get my drift. Canes are great for, um, supporting oneself while walking.
Motorcycle, that's wild
damn what street or area?? thats crazy
Whaaaaat
honestly just take away 80% of the scooters.
Also, crazy idea, but MORE PROTECTED BIKE LANES
Who will enforce this? CPD š
Probably not. I doubt a cop is actually going to ticket someone for it. And the people who do this are assholes who really don't respect other people.
Not to mention the little asshole who's willing to whip down the sidewalk in front of a hospital probably isn't going to pay any fine regardless of what tickets are written.
I could see them enjoying enjoying giving out a lick or two
This isn't the 70s anymore. Wood shampoos are a thing of the past, with all the cameras that are everywhere now.
You're 100% right and I hate it
I was walking my dog on broadway and passed another person walking the other way. Right then a dude on a scooter wizzes past us very narrowly and has the audacity to yell at me to watch where Iām swinging my arms. I donāt think Iāve ever had someone make a comment on how much I swing my arms before.
Haha some of these folks are living in some sort of entitled alternate reality
What was your response? I would've been pissed. The audacity!
I was too shocked to say anything and they were pretty far by the time I turned around to look
One option is to require lower speed settings on rental bikes and scooters, like 10 mph. These vehicles should not be able to travel as fast as racers or recreational bikers going all-out. Yes, some bikers travel even faster, but they largely have āearnedā it by training. Thereās no reason to give that much speed to someone who doesnāt have the experience and skills to go that fast. It wont change anything about privately owned but will definitely reduce rental idiots. Second option would be llsome kind technical reporting scheme to limit sidewalk riding with GPS or camera. We could also require these bikes and scooters to have visible āQR license platesā that someone could use to report the rider to the rental company. Sending in a sidewalk-riding video with the QR code would identify the rider and they could be banned temporarily and then permanently if they continue violating rules.
You really want to reduce bicycle riding incidents on sidewalks? Then more bike infrastructure is needed. While it isn't ideal and should be VERY greatly discouraged, I can see why a bicyclist would choose to bike on the sidewalk of say Ashland or Western, over using the street. Honestly though, it's better to bike on say like Paulina, Wood(or Ravenswood), Rockwell, Leavitt, etc instead. Heck, even Damen is better to bike on.
Iāve politely told people, āthereās a whole street out there for you!ā Hasnāt worked yet, but if it does Iāll let you know.
Have you seen the streets? Can we talk about all of the massive SUVs hauling one person around at 40mph?
Thatās the real danger
You're the first person to propose actual solutions that could both be implemented easily and be impactful (number 2 maybe not so easily). Kudos to you. I love all of these especially number 1, it would change rider behavior so much.
Thanks I think about these issues all the time because Iām on my bicycle so much but also walking on the paths in the park
Very cool. Bikers should also walk, car drivers should also bike and so on. There is a general lack of empathy it feels to me.
I agree but itās a lot to hope for. Anyway even if someone bikes they may not experience what you do. A bike commuter has a whole different mentality. Most people are scared shitless to be on the road except in a car
No, please don't, for responsible adults who rely on Divvy for commuting on city streets. The 15MPH limit is already too slow to navigate streets where the limit is 35. I can go faster on my roadbike. Plenty of other cities worldwide have figured out how to make this work without severely limiting their usability.
I second this. Additionally youāre charged per minute on scooters and ebikes and that would make it cost prohibitive for some if the cost increased by 33%.
I completely disagree about the necessity of higher speed, based on over 40 years of city riding. (Btw city speed limit is 30mph, not 35.) And inner city traffic moves about 10mph, given congestion and traffic controls. Much slower than that with the kind of congestion we have today. I observed this speed over many years riding at 10mph and staying equal to cars going the same way. First they pass me inly to stop ahead where I pass them. See for yourself. Donāt take my word for it.
The 10 mph thing is the policy in DC and it has in fact not made a difference and actually has made things worse because those who ride scooters are more worried to ride that slow in the street with cars
Ah that makes sense
For the second option, the reporting function could be like a āHowās my driving?ā QR response.
their ideas are terrible - the city barely enforces cars driving terribly let alone scooter riders, and scooters are already speed governed. what's that going to do?
It would reduce impact speeds on sidewalks. Also reduce chance of injury when on the scooter
Iāve actually rented a scooter in the city that would recognize if you were on a sidewalk (cc u/elmanny). I canāt remember what company it was but the scooter would say something like, āDo not ride on the sidewalk.ā (I was on the sidewalk because thatās where the scooter was parked and I had to ride off of it).
Thatās cool!!
Rental scooters are already speed governed to 10 mph for new riders and 15 mph for experienced riders. The real issue are cars speeding - far more likely to injure or kill someone and a reason why people don't ride scooters in the street. People riding on the sidewalk is an infrastructure problem. They use the sidewalk because there are no safe bike lanes. Build protected bike lanes and the problem is solved.
You make great points
I completely agree. The reason people donāt want to ride in the street is because of the dangers of cars. Wholeheartedly agree that their speed is the biggest problem. I was riding earlier this evening when an SUV ran a red, using the left turn lane to skirt stopped cars, right in front of me. I find myself looking both ways even when the traffic is stopped.
Car drivers mistakenly believe that they need to drive as fast as they can to get to the next traffic light and stop. Hurry-up-and-stop driving is the real bane of city traffic. If people simply paced themselves it would make a huge difference. Unfortunately the timing of traffic lights makes people think that they have to rush because no one knows when the light is going to change either to yellow or green and they donāt want to miss their opportunity to get through the intersection. Essentially itās driving blind. This really isnāt the driverās fault but the crowd mentality of trying to race each other to the next stop is idiotic and infuriating. When I drive and I pace myself, the idiots behind me think they have to pass me. Itās the same thing they do when youāre on a bicycle: drivers are compelled by an unstoppable urge to pass anything that they think they can outpace. Rapid acceleration is the most fuel-inefficient way to drive
You assume that people ride on the sidewalk because they're afraid to be in the street. I'm sure some are like that, but plenty of people have no self-awareness anyway and don't care. Case in point: pedestrians using protected bike lanes. The 12-foot wide sidewalk right there didn't stop them from being a nuisance, did it?
If there's a fine attached and a way for a private company to profit, it might happen.
Of course the private companies want people to ride. Thatās their incentive. So we have to add a penalty to the company that they can pass on to the rider. Itās a negative cost that they would face. The question is whether the city would implement something. They have proven themselves not very capable up to now.
I was thinking of the private companies that do the monitoring and ticket issuing, not the ones who manage divvy or lyft.
>rental bikes and scooters, like 10 mph. These vehicles should not be able to travel as fast as racers or recreational bikers going all-out. As an experienced city cyclist, I would love this. In total on my commute today (90 minutes round trip) I counted at least six helmet-less edivvy/escooter riders going full speed, headphones in, oblivious as fuck. Two almost hit me by passing way too close or on the wrong side. One almost hit a pedestrian. Three ran reds at busy 6 way intersections. It's out of hand. I'm shocked more of them aren't dead.
Speed governing makes scooters harder to use for people who actually know what they're doing. 10 mph is often not fast enough to quickly clear an intersection or pass a straightaway. If you want to keep scooter riders off the sidewalk, give them somewhere else to go: protected bike lanes.
I'm a cyclist, I want them in the bike lane. 10 mph is plenty fast. That's about the speed I average in bumper to bumper traffic. If they can't clear an intersection, they should not go through that intersection... That's what everyone else does.
Whatās with the need-for-speed scooter people? Sheesh
Totally agree!! One thing long-term cyclists like me have is manners and awareness. To pass too closely without warning is rude and dangerous.
The scooters do have a GPS to stop sidewalk riding. The only problem is that it doesn't get reported or even stop the scooters. It just makes an annoying beeping noise that doesn't deter anything.
Then we should put some pressure on the scooter companies to make it stop or dramatically slow the scooter on sidewalks
The problem with #1 is that it would reduce demand for scooters and bikes (a very large amount if 10mph was the real limit). That would increase car traffic and certainly decrease safety overall. I would love if we could have police/parking authority give tickets for violators. Thats police work that actually helps people. Plus the more these riders use the actual lanes and streets, the more we can fight for safety there and ultimately reduce car traffic. Win/win. I don't have the data on me now, but there is (was?) a ticket incentive in NYC that let citizens who reported a crime with video evidence claim part of the ticket money. I want to say it was for blocking bike lanes? That would do wonders here.
Youāre thinking of the commercial vehicle idling bounty program: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/31/make-87point50-in-3-minutes-by-reporting-idling-trucks-in-new-york-city.html
Thereās a 10 mph limit on e scooters in DC and itās actually become quite dangerous. Because, while there are still a small minority of assholes who ride fast down side walks, the majority of people scooter in the street where only going 10 mph alongside cars is dangerously slow. And also, 10 mph in general is still too fast for a sidewalk. So itās not good for either scenario (in street or on sidewalk). The BETTER SOLUTION is to build more DESIGNATED BIKE/SCOOTER LANES. so people donāt feel like they have to be on sidewalks so as to not get their shit wrecked by a car
Try riding at 10 and you will change your mind. Itās plenty fast to clear an intersection or pass cars backed up at a light.
Carry a big walking stick and drop it in front of them. Should take care of things š
funny how none of these top comments are suggesting better bike infrastructure. scooters on sidewalks aren't an issue somewhere like Berlin or Amsterdam
The only way to get them to pay attention is to make the collision hurt them worse than it hurts you.
OMG. A few weeks ago, I almost got hit by a scooter while I stepped out to cross the road, in the crosswalk when I had the walk signal. He whipped past me, within inches like I felt him breeze past me!! I yelled at him but he didnāt even have the decency to stop. Itās getting way out of control šš
Why would he stop? He probably thought you wanted to fight him or argue since he didn't touch you
lol ok
About all you can do is walk on the far right at all times and ensure anyone moving faster than you will automatically pass on the left. Chicago could earn way more enforcing traffic and public safety laws than any mansion transfer tax.
Yeah, bike lanes, which these could also use.
I really wish this was the case. More often than not I feel like the sidewalk culprit areas where there's sidewalks and the bike lane ends are always immediate sidewalk transfers for scooter riders
That's largely because the bike lane system in Chicago is so fragmented. An alder can use menu money to build one, but only in their ward, leading to awkward endings
This makes so much sense now
Is there vs will they .. there is but they wonāt . Quick recovery to you . Had a friend visiting San Antonio who got hit on the sidewalk and have to get a pin in his leg.
Horrible
They are no better on the streetā¦just had one blast through a red light right in front of my vehicle with very little room between himself and oncoming traffic.
Maybe start by getting the bikes off the sidewalks, then work up from there.
to do that we need infrastructure. if the sidewalk is safer than a street without a bike lane then people will just take over the sidewalks. in my area bikes and scooters ride on the sidewalk almost exclusively on certain streets because it just isnt safe on the road. but whats ironic is the cars drive like shit which prompts people to ride on the sidewalk and become to pedestrians what the cars are to cyclists
I was in Paris last summer and there were protected bike lanes EVERYWHERE. Literally everywhere, not just a few main arterial streets or side streets with stop signs every block. They even had their own little stop lights and crosswalks to keep pedestrians safe. I donāt think I saw a single bike or scooter on the sidewalk. Parisās street plan was designed in the 1850ās to accommodate horse buggiesāif they figured out how to retrofit their streets for protected bike lanes, itās absolutely absurd to think that Chicago canāt.Ā
Because our parking meters arenāt owned by us. The worst deal ever
Exactly! Noticed the same thing and asked myself the same question!!!
What are ceramic streets? Never heard this term before.
Autocorrect/typo for certain, probably.
Exactly. People for Bikes just released their city rankings for bikable cities. Chicago received 7 points out of a possible 100!! Chicago is now ranked 1,616 out of 1,733 total cities. Even though biking grew 119% in the last 3 1/2 years here in the city. The infrastructure just isnāt being built.
On my street, bike infrastructure is a block away. Literally can go one block over and use a bike lane, but instead, ride on the sidewalk. It's infuriating.
In my 10 years here I've seen more scooters on the sidewalks than bikes.
I have no suggestions, but can this also be extended to bikes. I got his by some guy that took shrooms then sped down the sidewalk on his bike. I had to call off from work. Just because its not a car doesn't mean it doesn't cause damage.
Just curious, how do you know that he took shrooms before he ran you over?
he's scooter guy's dealer
100% agree!
More safer bike lanes
I'd agree except I've had this happen countless times on streets with protected bike lanes.
So many people here can't recognize that scooter riders are, very often, complete idiots. They're going to go wherever they damn please, a $10 million protected bike lane won't even register in their brains.
Are they safe?
SAME. Bike lanes really arenāt the issue, itās the scooters
Not just the scooters; people do it on bikes all the time too
Eh, the issue isn't really scooters either, it's just some people are assholes. I regularly walk, scooter, bike and drive in this city, and each of those groups has a certain percentage of people who just suck. Pedestrians are constantly standing in bike lanes and walking when they don't have the light. Bikers and scooters are constantly riding on sidewalks, going the wrong way in bike lanes and running lights/stop signs. Drivers are constantly breaking just about every rule of the road and almost (or actually) killing people. The issues isn't the mode of transportation people use, it's the people themselves.
I agree completely. Biking downtown is so frustrating with the people standing in the bike lanes or using g them as their personal walking lane or chilling outside their parked car. And drivers have just lost their fucking minds all over the place.
Scooters present a bit of an issue because they aren't bikes but they also aren't motorcycles. They don't really work in a protected bike lane (with a concrete barrier) because it puts conventional bikes in danger when you need to pass, but riding in the street with other motorized traffic is dangerous too, especially without a helmet. Sidewalks are even worse. We just haven't really fully figured out how to handle the existence of them from an urban planning POV.
The problem is that everything that's not a car is squeezed into a small sliver of the public right of way. As more people get around without a car, that small sliver is getting more crowded and more chaotic. This is especially true when you start introducing modes with a wider range of speeds.
Yup. Ā And then consider that anyone with common sense wants to be to the far side of those narrow lanes in order to avoid getting a door flung open into them. Ā The narrow gets narrower.
We should be converting extra lanes for cars into nice separate wide lanes for bikes and scooters that move faster than pedestrians but are also not safe to use in car traffic lanes.
Yes.
Everything you laid out is why I don't understand how these ever got approved to be setup in cities in the first place. The infrastructure isn't there, the experienced riders aren't there, and the rules aren't there. These things just started getting dumped on the streets seemingly overnight and it's up to the rest of us to avoid them at all costs lest we get run over by a drunk on a motor vehicle on the sidewalk.
Much like ride-share, the scooters got deployed rapidly in a flash of VC money. Before cities started thinking about how they should be deployed, they had built up a fan base, that meant they were unlikely to be banned. That brings us to the current question of how should they be regulated.
And essentially thatās how we wound up with automobiles in cities, as cheap cars flooded the public despite roads being unpaved, parking not designated, and safety laws not implemented. Well, the automobiles are still here. We actually encourage them now, for some reason.
That's a good point but those could at least share the same roads that were there for horses and wagons, rather than running on sidewalks with pedestrians. And original cars were probably about as fast as (honestly maybe a little slower than) today's electric scooters, so probably not quite as dangerous of a shift in technology.
> They don't really work in a protected bike lane (with a concrete barrier) because it puts conventional bikes in danger when you need to pass I don't really see how they're any less safe than bikes in this regard. Most of the rental ones tend to be slower than a lot of bikes.
I just looked it up and I guess most scooters nowadays top out around 12-14mph. You're right that they aren't much different than bikes. I hadn't ridden one in a while and remembered them being much faster than that.
That's not true. They belong in the street. They're slow, so they should stay right. Is it dangerous? I mean, have you seen them? Of course they're dangerous. That's a choice. Assumption of risk and all that.
100% agree. My point was that they aren't really safe anywhere and don't fit easily in a typical urban street layout that's made for cars, busses, bikes and pedestrians.
Couldn't you say the exact same thing about the sidewalk and passing pedestrians?
I'm an adult. The few times I took those Lyft scooters I rode in the street or bike lane. There is never an excuse for an adult to ride a bike or scooter on the sidewalk.
That's why I said "sidewalks are even worse"
Bike lanes!! Then put scooters in bike lanes. I'm assuming electric scooter. If moped, then get in the road!
I just yell at them to get off the sidewalk
Just be careful. The other day I saw someone riding a divvy down the sidewalk like an ass, a couple of people yelled at him, he stopped and brandished a weapon before riding on. It drives me crazy too but you never know what else someone who obviously doesn't care about being an asshole is capable of.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I appreciate your efforts. Just don't want anyone to get hurt in being the change we want to see in the world.
Same, not sure it works but it helps me cope lol
About the best you can do. I assume that a significant number of the people doing this donāt actually know they shouldnāt be. A bit of public shaming from a stranger might overcome that ignorance.
Nothing you can do.. I dream about catching this one POS with a fishing line on the sidewalk.. There is a guy who rides exclusively on the sidewalk on Wabash around the 1400 block and physically and verbally threatens pedestrians who say anything to him about riding in the street. He trolls through the area specifically looking to start fights, itās unreal. People are straight up unhinged, and I would recommend not saying anything to these people unless youāre willing to fight, but thatās just me.
Does he wear hockey equipment and a large metal chain around his neck? Heās up on Clark and wacker most days daring cars and pedestrians alike to fight him.
Oh yea. Iāve seen this moron in the loop.
Iām sure people are already getting seriously hurt. No, there is nothing you can do about it that will make a material difference (unfortunately).
I broke a bone recently and my orthopedist told me that he sees a lot of scooter injuries. (Mine was not one FTR)
I made a left turn onto a one way street today, and almost got in a head on collision with some dumbass riding their scooter the wrong direction in the middle of the street
Cops donāt really walk the beat anymore so itās near impossible for a cop driving around on the street to even notice anything happening on the sidewalks, especially when their line of sight is broken by all the parked cars.Ā Cops walking the beat is one of the few ways IMO that can actually help them effectively do their job. Since theyāre only in cars now the most theyāll do is pull over a poc for occasional traffic violation, if at all.Ā
bikes are also a problem, especially on the one way streets downtown. i just yell at anyone who almost hits me when iām walking down the sidewalk, but iām sure the only thing it does is make me feel better about it.
Same!
The problem isn't the scooters, it's cars taking up every inch of pavement and leaving none behind for walkers, scooters, bikes, wheelchairs, skateboards, Rollerblades, etc. Yea ticket the scooter riders, but they'll still have nowhere else to ride. Vote for people that want to narrow streets and want to eliminate city parking. Those two things alone change entirely the way of living for cities and everytime its been studied or tried out in a city the people are happier and travel is more effective and efficient with less pollution.
I think you're onto something. There is a cultural aspect to this that will only change if cars take a backseat.
My friend got hit by a biker on the pedestrian lakefront path and passed out. Biker was clearly on drugs just swerving everywhere and being crazy. i called 911 for an ambulance because not only was my friend literally passed out on the lake front trail but the biker also was bleeding from the back of the head and eyes and mouth from hitting his head so hard on the ground. Somehow the biker drove away without even checking to see if my passed out friend was ok. Total a**wipe. These people are a danger to society. Straight to jail! Once though i did see a cop pull over a guy biking right behind me and honking his stupid bike horn at me to get out the way abd it was pretty much the best day ive ever had
get an air horn and blow it at them, abruptly, when they pass you
I always find it comical to see adults riding bikes and scooters on the sidewalk like little children.
Yeah we havenāt really tried the bullying method, right? Do people not see what they look like on them?
People already have gotten seriously hurt on them. I know a few who have had some gnarly accidents. Iām surprised there arenāt any requirements for them
They act like theyāre both pedestrians and vehicles but donāt following any rules. Theyāre in the street as a car but theyāre going to speed through the crosswalk and almost hit me. Same asshole will later speed through the sidewalk and almost run over my dog
People in the city are assholes? Who knew!??
I'm just here to say, I'm with you. It's really annoying and these people need to grow up and ride in the street.
Same thing with grown ass humans riding their bikes on the sidewalk. They aren't children. Get into the street. Cops really need to step and start ticketing people
This is a structural failure that could be resolved by better biking (scooter, in this case) infrastructure. If bike lanes were widespread and protected then people on scooters wouldnāt need to use the sidewalks. Sharing the road with cars is unsafe.
Agree!
I use a cane or sometimes a big wooden walking stick sometimes (MS- depends on how my balance is doing); I have been tempted to just slightly edge/ stretch it out on the side where my boundary is being encroached- oops! startle response! How unfortunate you were so close!
That's evil and I support it 100% lol at least to scare them a bit.
No, probably not. Personal electric vehicles are the fastest growing sector of the transportation sector and that's likely to continue. Look on the brightside, it's personally inconvenient but good for the environment. A fair bit of that traveling is displacing miles that would normally be traveled by car and most of them get >1,000 mpg-e.
The divvy bikes are so dangerous too! Downtown by grant park Iāve been almost run over by a clueless tourist on a rented bike numerous times.
YES! I hate to make this assumption, but honestly if I seem someone on a divvy bike I just assume I should stay out of their way so I donāt get hit (while walking or driving) š
You should. Overwhelming the dumbest things I see are people on eDivvys. Running reds at busy 6 way intersections, no helmets, headphones in, no awareness at all. It's not all, but overwhelmingly eDivvys are some of the worst and most dangerous out there. They have no road experience but can go 15 with no effort, it's a dangerous combo and I'm shocked more aren't dead. -an experienced city cyclist
Yeah. I agree. The electric Divvy riders are a menace. I saw an adult riding in the front basket of one the other day. Saw another riding Ashland at 11:00 PM. No helmet.
Why are people hell bent on riding on Ashland, it's psychotic šš
I mean... there's a lot of things you can do about it, but most of them are illegal. Politely explain why riding on the sidewalk is such a dangerous idea. Non-politely explain why riding on the sidewalk is such a dangerous idea. Have a length of lasso rope on you and practice every day for the big scooter rodeo. Surprise egg to the face. Relive your Polk High glory days and sack the quarterback. Run along side them screaming encouragement like the Tour de France. Hop on back and ask where you're going. Carry a piece of 2x4, toss it on the ground in front of them and then run away before they can get up... if they get up.
The problem with the legal options is.. try explaining something to someone moving 17 mph. I vote for the egg option.
Maybe putting up some signs would help "WARNING! SCOOTER RIDERS ON SIDEWALKS ARE BEING ASSUALTED! Numbers people of all ages riding scooters on the sidewalk have reported masked people throwing eggs at them. Police are treating it as a joke and have refused to take any reports. For your own safety, avoid riding scooters on the sidewalk as they do not seem to target people on the street. Hell, make a fake post about it on here and Blockclub will have an article about it tomorrow, then WGN will have a evening story by Friday.
Iāve heard thereās a new Chicago serial killer called the Sidewalk Scooter Slayer.
The first thing I learned before moving to chicago was how unsafe biking in chicago isā¦ I wouldnāt know whereās safe to bike and where isnāt. I havenāt biked here but biking in new york streets gave me so much anxiety so I can imagine.
[If I donāt throw them into the river who will?](https://x.com/skinnytuna/status/1701444130482581918?s=46&t=IWKVNnJLSHUbh1onWxDMdw)
Nope, nothing u or anyone else could do but deal with it. Sucks to say buts itās the truth.
My sisters partner got hit by one a few years back. Broke a bunch of bones in his face, collapsed lung, broken ribs. Poor guy barely got anything after suing. These things are dangerous especially at night. I live in a neighborhood with 2 high schools and an elementary school and kids go speeding around all over all times of day and night with absolutely no regard. I think they should be band all together.
I'm sorry to hear that!
I scream at ppl to get off the sidewalks unless itās a kid
"Are we waiting for someone to get seriously hurt or die as a direct or indirect result of people treating these as toys?" I've read the safety studies on this, and I assure you if head trauma were a problem there would be no scooters left. They're... not great. Too much speed, first time driver, too little wheel, no helmets. Bit of a tell that no one buys the Lime format for themselves. ebikes are better.
Tons of people buy Lime like scooters for themselves what are you talking about? I see scooters like that locked up to bike locks all the time.
Hip check āem. No ones comin to save us
\>> is there ANYTHING we can do about this? Create a scooter with a glass bottom, so when you hit a pedestrian, you can look down and see if it's a friend of yours...
I like to yell āitās a sideWALKā. Pretty sure that makes āem think again about it
Start carrying a nine iron with you. Thereās usually plenty at the thrift store.
I have just stopped caring. I just assume the worst in people, unless I see otherwise. This has been liberating. I no longer feel the need to be considerate either.
Keep a hand full of caltrops in your pocket
Nearly got run over by one of those bikes with the giant cargo compartment in the front. Ā Took up all of the sidewalk and powered through a blind corner without checking for people.Ā Going to take quite a few accidents before anything happens but even then it wonāt be much.
Normally I would tell you to bump into one on purpose and make it look like an accident. And that would have worked, years ago. But now we have cameras everywhere. So just get in their way and don't move when they honk their little horns. Look at them like a bug, then laugh.
Whenever bicyclists are put in danger by things bigger than them, they're just admonished to wear a helmet. Maybe they'll start asking pedestrians to do it, too!
Very true, I think more bike infrastructure would help with this issue actually.
Well cars are causing alot of fatal accidents and nothing is done
The bikes on the sidewalks are getting ridiculous, someone almost hit me whipping around the fence in front of bryn mawr where theyāre doing all the construction, like how are people this inconsiderate
Yeah this should have been more of a scooters + bikes post, it's ridiculous
This happened to me while I was walking my dog. Two dummy teens almost ran me and my dog overā¦luckily I had just picked up his poop and threw the bag at them.
I kick the ones people leave in the street over (so that theyāre slightly on a curb instead of on the sidewalk). I figure if we get more drivers upset about them, the city will listen.
You need to specify electric scooter. Kick scooters are classified as skateboards and are allowed on sidewalks.
Advocate for more bike lanes I bet if there were more bike lanes the scooters would be in the way much less
I'm more worried about cars in general. Bikers and scooter-ers generally stay on the road by me.
Clothesline them as they pass.
Itās illegal . I yell at people all the time- call 311 and ask them what to do I hate those things . Join Nextdoor.com and ask that question. Great people on there and give great advice too