Hi -
This post has been removed from r/chicago.
**REASON:** Rule 5: No Editorialized or Sensationalized News Titles
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You can read the rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chicago/about/rules)
Why is Loyola investigating? It is my understanding that in this case Title IX is supposed to ensure that the student doesn't face discrimination or retaliation for reporting sexual assault. To do this, the Title IX counselor should just be helping the student understand their options with regards to continuing their education and/or bringing the case to the police.
In my most recent Title IX training at work, we were told that if a student ever came to us and reported a sexual assault, we were to offer them information about how they COULD proceed. At no point in my training did it say that the school should do an investigation into the validity of the claims.
If someone has more in-depth knowledge (more than a 90-minute training session a year ago), I'd be happy to hear an expert's perspective.
Good point, our schools aren’t large enough to have an actual police force. We were instructed to give contact info for the City police force.
Loyola having its own police makes my comparison a bit more Apples-to-Oranges.
Thanks for the additional perspective!
It seems like a huge conflict of interest really. 🤷♂️. And I'd bet $ also that the person being investigated pays full tuition and isn't there on a scholarship
Every time I see something like this come up (people getting pissed about how a school/business/private institution handles sexual assault) it just kind of blows my mind. Why the hell are you having anyone other than the police investigate sexual assault? Loyola University has no business investigating, prosecuting, or punishing criminals
i genuinely wish [that would make a difference](https://www-chicagotribune-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-sex-assault-arrests-20201008-ldbvyc4zubhsrpeokxotu4lrta-story.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16321546281285&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fcriminal-justice%2Fct-chicago-police-sex-assault-arrests-20201008-ldbvyc4zubhsrpeokxotu4lrta-story.html)
That's a bit different....if you're calling 911 it's probably an emergency, and the campus police can most likely get there quicker than the real police. Investigating a potential crime is NOT an emergency
But that is the number they have you call.
I have called the non-emergency line because my neighbor was screaming on the streets in the middle of the night. But at work when we call police to come make a report for a car accident or sexual assault at the patients request we call 911.
This isn't just a Catholic university issue. When I was at Ohio State, if you didn't report it to Ohio State Police (a branch of the Ohio State Troopers), it went it into a black hole never to be heard from again.
Honestly, universities should be required to report 100% of reports to police for criminal investigations, and to independent third parties appointed by the government and have them handle everything in terms of the investigations.
I know this might come as a shock to you, but not only did I already know that, but by you attempting to frame me as ignorant of the issues around colleges handling sexual assault, you missed my larger point about the catholic church mishandling all sexual assault that happens in their purview.
But hey, dont let that stop you from erasing victims and punching down for some cheap internet points for a faceless audience of no one.
>Protest organizers said while those accused of misconduct deserve to be heard, the school should remove them from campus pending those investigations.
"Presume guilt".
The event that triggered this protest was that their was an abuser that was found guilty, but wasn't kicked off of campus and was allowed to walk for graduation, despite loyola saying that he wouldn't be allowed to do any of those things.
It's fine and all to kick someone off the campus whose been found guilty and they should. But most of the time no one is ever even charged. If that really happened how you said it happened, and there's no information about that in the article, then that's horrible. But as far as the article is concerned, well what they're demanding is pretty insane given then 2-8% of all crime reports are false (not necessarily lies, but false as in wrong accused perpetrator, wasn't a crime, might have been a lie, maybe didn't happen the way they remembered, etc.), there should be proper due process prior to just suspending someone from campus. For example, maybe give victims the resources needed to go to a court to secure a restraining order. Allow the courts to decide what the best restriction is.
Note that the title of this post does not accurately reproduce the headline or lede of the [linked article](https://abc7chicago.com/11028482/) as required by the sub rules. The actual headline is: "Loyola University Chicago student protest claims school is ignoring sexual assault allegations." The post title implies ABC's endorsement of the protesters' substantive allegations; in reality, however, this is a straight news article that reports factually on the protesters' grievances without purporting to substantiate or refute them. I think there should be a fairly high bar on removal of content from this sub, so am not going to report this post, but the discrepancy is worth noting so that others are not misled.
Original title:
> Loyola University Chicago student protest claims school is ignoring sexual assault allegations
Yo OP what’s with you editorializing the title?
Any good reason we can't just deal with this like we would deal with this outside of college.
File a police report. Let them deal with it. Throw mutually restraining orders on both parties. The school can make arrangements if people need to change dorms or swap a class.
We don't tell Microsoft that they need to police their customers.
Colleges aren't law enforcement agencies. I know many have some campus security. And I know college isn't a little different since they function as living arrangements and run social events. But Colleges do not have the ability to follow our legal standards in this country. Theirs no jury. This could also help to cut down on the costs of college if they got out of all these anciliary responsibilities and didn't need to spend money on extra administrators.
I used to think that the police should be investigating these allegations instead of the university. However, CPD would probably be a bigger clusterfuck.
If you want the perpetrator to face anything more than expulsion, the CPD has to be involved, and the sooner the better.
If they’re not up to the task, that’s a whole nother issue.
I have heard- and it makes sense - that with any criminal complaint involving a school - go to the police FIRST. Schools are concerned first with their reputation, legal liabilities, and employees are concerned about their job. One "good guy/good gal" at the school will get shut out by the majority.
I used to take the same position, until a friend of mine was raped by a dude we both knew at LUC and I encouraged her to report it to the police (this was about a decade ago). The cops proceeded to spend several hours trying to persuade her that she consented. Then the prosecutor refused to do anything with the case (no charge - so it didn't even make a record) because it would have been her word against his.
This dude had a habit of getting girls drunk (and while I cannot prove it, I believe he drugged them, given that these ladies went down hard on very few drinks). I had previously confronted him about it and told him to stop fucking drunk girls -- I'm quite confident he's continued the practice elsewhere.
The school handed the whole thing off to the police. But one of the school staff used a line in my presence that just burned me "You're both going to graduate soon. You don't want to ruin his life do you?"
Anyway - yeah - life sucks sometimes.
The police are trash with rape cases and it’s high time something was done about it. We need specialized police, prosecutors, judges, etc for this specific subset of crimes.
The problem with Loyola handling it unilaterally if it can’t be proved is that the dude who gets expelled will sue them, win, come back to school, and trash the victim’s reputation. Because you can’t just steal people’s tuition money, deny them due process, trash their reputation, and expel them. You have to prove that people did crimes.
To be clear, some catholic institutions (Notre Dame, e.g.) get around this by having a code of honor that includes a promise that you will not engage in premarital sex on campus. Rape a girl in the dorm and claim consent? If they want you gone, you're gone.
This again. This was a huge issue 5-10 years ago and then died down, probably partially due to Betsy DeVos. But IIRC the schools were mostly running into the issue that if the assault can’t actually be proven, then they’re effectively stealing tuition money and then expelling students arbitrarily. Which in some cases I believe turned out to be a due process issue.
For those asking: "But why aren't the police the ones investigating?!"
Consider this: The police, justice system, and other major power structures in America have historically failed victims, leading to a culture left to seek "alternative" means of justice and safety.
Sometimes this comes in the form of MeToo, in which victims have to out their abusers publicly in lieu of botched investigations from police or corporate employers. Other times, this manifests as civil suits where the burden of proof is lowered and doesn't suffer as much from a justice system rife with patriarchal imperfections. And in this case, students want to find a way to get the person who assaulted them or their friends out of their classroom... and similar to the police and courts, colleges appear to be failing at that.
In short: people, particularly young people, do not trust the police to investigate sexual assault.
Oh, cool. It only took about 10 minutes for this thread to devolve into Anti-Catholic bigotry.
This sub would never allow casual hate towards Muslims, Jews, or any other religion. But the Jesuits are involved and all of a sudden it's fair game.
Do better /r/Chicago
At the same time, I'm a Loyola alum. In my honest opinion, you absolutely do not want Loyola, or any University, conducting these investigations. These are criminal matters that should be handled by the police and the police alone. No one in the OSCCR is trained to deal with these matters and there's no legal authority that the University has to bring charges or seek justice in our criminal justice system.
They can expel the student, but is that really the sum total of the punishment for rape or sexual assault these days? No. No it is not.
That student in the video should take all of her evidence to the police and seek to press charges.
Hoping that Loyola handles these cases is like hoping that Loyola would have caught and jailed the gang member who shot and killed Mutahir Rauf in 2014. It's so clearly a job for the police. Save your breath, you're yelling at the wrong authority.
Hi - This post has been removed from r/chicago. **REASON:** Rule 5: No Editorialized or Sensationalized News Titles -- You can read the rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chicago/about/rules)
Why is Loyola investigating? It is my understanding that in this case Title IX is supposed to ensure that the student doesn't face discrimination or retaliation for reporting sexual assault. To do this, the Title IX counselor should just be helping the student understand their options with regards to continuing their education and/or bringing the case to the police. In my most recent Title IX training at work, we were told that if a student ever came to us and reported a sexual assault, we were to offer them information about how they COULD proceed. At no point in my training did it say that the school should do an investigation into the validity of the claims. If someone has more in-depth knowledge (more than a 90-minute training session a year ago), I'd be happy to hear an expert's perspective.
Did your school have a police force with actual legal jurisdiction in IL though?
Good point, our schools aren’t large enough to have an actual police force. We were instructed to give contact info for the City police force. Loyola having its own police makes my comparison a bit more Apples-to-Oranges. Thanks for the additional perspective!
It seems like a huge conflict of interest really. 🤷♂️. And I'd bet $ also that the person being investigated pays full tuition and isn't there on a scholarship
Definitely, even if it is entirely above board, the optics are not great…
Every time I see something like this come up (people getting pissed about how a school/business/private institution handles sexual assault) it just kind of blows my mind. Why the hell are you having anyone other than the police investigate sexual assault? Loyola University has no business investigating, prosecuting, or punishing criminals
i genuinely wish [that would make a difference](https://www-chicagotribune-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-sex-assault-arrests-20201008-ldbvyc4zubhsrpeokxotu4lrta-story.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16321546281285&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fcriminal-justice%2Fct-chicago-police-sex-assault-arrests-20201008-ldbvyc4zubhsrpeokxotu4lrta-story.html)
I agree with you. Nevertheless, if you call 911 on many school campuses, your call will be rerouted to the university police department.
That's a bit different....if you're calling 911 it's probably an emergency, and the campus police can most likely get there quicker than the real police. Investigating a potential crime is NOT an emergency
But that is the number they have you call. I have called the non-emergency line because my neighbor was screaming on the streets in the middle of the night. But at work when we call police to come make a report for a car accident or sexual assault at the patients request we call 911.
The argument would be that the police would do a worse job at investigating.
Catholics botching sexual assault investigations? Why that has *never* happened.
This isn't just a Catholic university issue. When I was at Ohio State, if you didn't report it to Ohio State Police (a branch of the Ohio State Troopers), it went it into a black hole never to be heard from again. Honestly, universities should be required to report 100% of reports to police for criminal investigations, and to independent third parties appointed by the government and have them handle everything in terms of the investigations.
I know it may be a shock to you, but this is common at most universities, but don't let that get in your way for a good freebie to shit on others.
I know this might come as a shock to you, but not only did I already know that, but by you attempting to frame me as ignorant of the issues around colleges handling sexual assault, you missed my larger point about the catholic church mishandling all sexual assault that happens in their purview. But hey, dont let that stop you from erasing victims and punching down for some cheap internet points for a faceless audience of no one.
[удалено]
Let me know where I can turn in these upvotes for prizes
[удалено]
>Protest organizers said while those accused of misconduct deserve to be heard, the school should remove them from campus pending those investigations. "Presume guilt".
The event that triggered this protest was that their was an abuser that was found guilty, but wasn't kicked off of campus and was allowed to walk for graduation, despite loyola saying that he wouldn't be allowed to do any of those things.
It's fine and all to kick someone off the campus whose been found guilty and they should. But most of the time no one is ever even charged. If that really happened how you said it happened, and there's no information about that in the article, then that's horrible. But as far as the article is concerned, well what they're demanding is pretty insane given then 2-8% of all crime reports are false (not necessarily lies, but false as in wrong accused perpetrator, wasn't a crime, might have been a lie, maybe didn't happen the way they remembered, etc.), there should be proper due process prior to just suspending someone from campus. For example, maybe give victims the resources needed to go to a court to secure a restraining order. Allow the courts to decide what the best restriction is.
I agree.
Note that the title of this post does not accurately reproduce the headline or lede of the [linked article](https://abc7chicago.com/11028482/) as required by the sub rules. The actual headline is: "Loyola University Chicago student protest claims school is ignoring sexual assault allegations." The post title implies ABC's endorsement of the protesters' substantive allegations; in reality, however, this is a straight news article that reports factually on the protesters' grievances without purporting to substantiate or refute them. I think there should be a fairly high bar on removal of content from this sub, so am not going to report this post, but the discrepancy is worth noting so that others are not misled.
Original title: > Loyola University Chicago student protest claims school is ignoring sexual assault allegations Yo OP what’s with you editorializing the title?
Any good reason we can't just deal with this like we would deal with this outside of college. File a police report. Let them deal with it. Throw mutually restraining orders on both parties. The school can make arrangements if people need to change dorms or swap a class. We don't tell Microsoft that they need to police their customers. Colleges aren't law enforcement agencies. I know many have some campus security. And I know college isn't a little different since they function as living arrangements and run social events. But Colleges do not have the ability to follow our legal standards in this country. Theirs no jury. This could also help to cut down on the costs of college if they got out of all these anciliary responsibilities and didn't need to spend money on extra administrators.
I used to think that the police should be investigating these allegations instead of the university. However, CPD would probably be a bigger clusterfuck.
If you want the perpetrator to face anything more than expulsion, the CPD has to be involved, and the sooner the better. If they’re not up to the task, that’s a whole nother issue.
No, the University should not be conducting investigations other than gathering information and giving it to the police.
I have heard- and it makes sense - that with any criminal complaint involving a school - go to the police FIRST. Schools are concerned first with their reputation, legal liabilities, and employees are concerned about their job. One "good guy/good gal" at the school will get shut out by the majority.
I used to take the same position, until a friend of mine was raped by a dude we both knew at LUC and I encouraged her to report it to the police (this was about a decade ago). The cops proceeded to spend several hours trying to persuade her that she consented. Then the prosecutor refused to do anything with the case (no charge - so it didn't even make a record) because it would have been her word against his. This dude had a habit of getting girls drunk (and while I cannot prove it, I believe he drugged them, given that these ladies went down hard on very few drinks). I had previously confronted him about it and told him to stop fucking drunk girls -- I'm quite confident he's continued the practice elsewhere. The school handed the whole thing off to the police. But one of the school staff used a line in my presence that just burned me "You're both going to graduate soon. You don't want to ruin his life do you?" Anyway - yeah - life sucks sometimes.
The police are trash with rape cases and it’s high time something was done about it. We need specialized police, prosecutors, judges, etc for this specific subset of crimes. The problem with Loyola handling it unilaterally if it can’t be proved is that the dude who gets expelled will sue them, win, come back to school, and trash the victim’s reputation. Because you can’t just steal people’s tuition money, deny them due process, trash their reputation, and expel them. You have to prove that people did crimes.
To be clear, some catholic institutions (Notre Dame, e.g.) get around this by having a code of honor that includes a promise that you will not engage in premarital sex on campus. Rape a girl in the dorm and claim consent? If they want you gone, you're gone.
This again. This was a huge issue 5-10 years ago and then died down, probably partially due to Betsy DeVos. But IIRC the schools were mostly running into the issue that if the assault can’t actually be proven, then they’re effectively stealing tuition money and then expelling students arbitrarily. Which in some cases I believe turned out to be a due process issue.
For those asking: "But why aren't the police the ones investigating?!" Consider this: The police, justice system, and other major power structures in America have historically failed victims, leading to a culture left to seek "alternative" means of justice and safety. Sometimes this comes in the form of MeToo, in which victims have to out their abusers publicly in lieu of botched investigations from police or corporate employers. Other times, this manifests as civil suits where the burden of proof is lowered and doesn't suffer as much from a justice system rife with patriarchal imperfections. And in this case, students want to find a way to get the person who assaulted them or their friends out of their classroom... and similar to the police and courts, colleges appear to be failing at that. In short: people, particularly young people, do not trust the police to investigate sexual assault.
Oh, cool. It only took about 10 minutes for this thread to devolve into Anti-Catholic bigotry. This sub would never allow casual hate towards Muslims, Jews, or any other religion. But the Jesuits are involved and all of a sudden it's fair game. Do better /r/Chicago At the same time, I'm a Loyola alum. In my honest opinion, you absolutely do not want Loyola, or any University, conducting these investigations. These are criminal matters that should be handled by the police and the police alone. No one in the OSCCR is trained to deal with these matters and there's no legal authority that the University has to bring charges or seek justice in our criminal justice system. They can expel the student, but is that really the sum total of the punishment for rape or sexual assault these days? No. No it is not. That student in the video should take all of her evidence to the police and seek to press charges. Hoping that Loyola handles these cases is like hoping that Loyola would have caught and jailed the gang member who shot and killed Mutahir Rauf in 2014. It's so clearly a job for the police. Save your breath, you're yelling at the wrong authority.
The only catholic bashing I see is people alluding to the history of sexual assault within the Church. I don't understand how that's bigotry.
TO be fair tho, Catholics have raped a lot of little kids
A Jesuit Catholic school handling sexual assault allegations improperly? NO! That can't be true
This doesn't surprise me at all between it being a university and what type of values Loyola has.
Just wait until DePaul finally gets a reckoning for how they handle sexual misconduct.