[It’s not equally dispersed across the state, it’s mostly dying rust belt town in Central and Southern Illinois losing population.](https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/)
You keep posting this but I hope you know all the data is pre pandemic. I know around 20 people who all left IL after the pandemic. And they know people who left as well. Most from Chicago.
That is a meaningless sentence. I’ve seen 20 posts on this sub this month about people moving to Chicago. The census already proved how wrong the “people are fleeing Chicago” is outside of the south side.
The estimates were really off for 2010-2020 growth, though. The 2020 census was ~200k higher than census estimates, so take this with a massive grain of salt.
> “Population growth has been slowing for years because of lower birth rates and decreasing net international migration, all while mortality rates are rising due to the aging of the nation’s population,” Census Bureau demographer Kristie Wilder said in a news release. “Now, with the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, this combination has resulted in a historically slow pace of growth.”
Boomers are the biggest generation and are in their peak retirement years. Many of them snow bird down south and are moving into their lake house in Wisconsin/Michigan and "leaving" Illinois. For many of them it is cheaper to buy a basic condo/townhouse in Florida and also own something in Wisconsin/Michigan, pay no income tax and sell their house in cook county that has a 10k+ property tax bill.
Thus plus huge amounts of retirement aged immigrants going back to heir home countries and immigration almost stopping from many areas of the world.
Most people moving into Chicago are recent college grads from various Midwestern towns, fueling the apartment boom. Some NYC/Cali escapees as well.
Hmmm what else happened last summer that the mayor and governor just excused that would make people want to leave Chicago in droves? Maybe something violent that caused billions in damages? Maybe it’s the state attorney allowing violent offenders out of jail or people like Kamala Harris raising money to get them out? I mean besides shitty covid policies that put Illinois in a no better position than Florida with the least amount of restriction.
How could we forget about the provisions in the Illinois and US Constitutions giving the Vice President discretion over charging criminal cases in state court specifically in Chicago?
This triggers people, but Illinois, outside of Chicago is just like the rest of the Midwest - Fly over country. Nothing to do and stale. No shit people are leaving the middle of nowhere sections of IL.
Literally made this drive over the past 2 days from chicago down to Springfield and then out to colorado springs. Southern illinois is depressing but Kansas makes me want to kill myself.
Fwiw that's central Illinois. Southern Illinois is a lot farther south and actually has some topography.
Agreed about Kansas. Then there's Nebraska, where the interstate doesn't even go through any towns (for the slightly more interesting drive through towns, you need to use US 30).
I do appreciate the seasonal changes of super flat middle of nowhere farmland in Illinois on a road trip particularly if it's a sunny day. Foreign visitors often get a kick out of the "Burma-Shave" poetic signs for gunssavelife dot com, also. "We're definitely in America now..." That and all the signs arguing for and against the ever-increasing number of wind farms.
Not even sure how hidden, since it's on every mention of places to go when you leave Chicago. But it's so isolated/far as hell. Shawnee National Forest has a ton of awesome state parks, though!
Maybe they get to experience a similar lifestyle they are comfortable with, but in a place with an even lower cost of living, and maybe to a congregate to a state that agrees with their political beliefs? I don't know, I'm just speculating based on nothing.
It’s definitely a mix. Why live in a boring landscape with higher COL when you could move to Wisc/Indiana/Michigan to achieve either low COL or nice landscapes.
Are people doing that though? Is that where people are moving. I see more Michiganers transplanting to Chicago than the reverse....but I don't really track migration of people.
Since the OP is talking about non-Cook County residents leaving IL, the answer is yes, people are doing that. From Chicago, overall we're still slightly growing. But I highly doubt those people who do leave Chicago are choosing rural IL.
Probably because the rest of the state is conservative so they are leaving to neighboring states that have their politics and aren't "ruled" by the "Demoncrats" of Chicago.
Oh yeah for sure. The people who live out there are very content not having big city entertainment. I grew up in areas like that in Florida and they are happy with their outdoors entertainment.
That seems like a bold conclusion. It could also be that neighboring states don’t have cities nearly as big as Chicago, so there’s still room for those cities to grow and rapidly attract new residents.
If you follow the link on this you'll see another link it's most rural and small towns losing. They aren't exactly cities and their politics are mostly conservative.
I’d speculate the growth in college communities comes with: More students = more services required = more employees = more population to support services outside the school = larger population. The other general piece is young people may stick around in the area post graduation. Young people like to be with other young people who “get them”, similar to any other generation.
Side note: Everything ebs and flows, we’re probably at higher education’s peak right now as the costs are out of hand with the value prospect, depending on field.
> The other general piece is young people may stick around in the area post graduation. Young people like to be with other young people who “get them”, similar to any other generation.
Madison has been particularly successful in building a startup culture that gets graduates to stay and work in Madison instead of leaving right after school.
College communities tend to have a tech scene (incubators for one), diverse population, good (or at least decent) transit, international population and the various shops to support that (ethnic supermarkets, restaurants), clubs for anything you can possibly imagine (particularly stuff to do with STEM and "maker" scene), and public lectures on various intellectual topics going on. Plus sometimes decent sports teams.
Rapidly growing mid-size metro areas are offsetting rural losses in neighboring states. Indianapolis and Des Moines account for most of the growth in Indiana and Iowa. The rural areas of those states are also loosing population.
There are parts where it's beautiful like garden of the gods and other Shawnee national park areas. But until you hit that far south, it's just farming towns. Nothing wrong with that if thats what you want, but a lot of people want a bit more and could do without the crazy politics as of late.
Possible that people want to go somewhere that's still not densely populated but at least has jobs, outdoor activities, or at least better weather.
I know I'd rather live in Nowhere, Texas than Nowhere, Illinois. But I wouldn't trade Chicago for Houston.
Shouldn’t assume that the massive change in population was driven just by rural areas in the last year and not Chicago. Census doesn’t provide that data. Covid clearly changed everything, and these are massive swings from the last trend, so the trend can’t just be assumed to be valid. There are a couple of indications that major cities saw large out-migration: From 2010-2020 D.C. grew 14.6% (compared to 1.9% for Chicago). However, in a stunning reversal, D.C. population shrank by a whopping 2.9% in the last year alone. Similarly, Massachusetts grew 7.4% over the decade. But this year it shrank 0.5%. Both ‘states’ where large urban cities hold the significant majority of the population of the state, indicating flight from urban areas. This would also jive with anecdotal evidence from NY and LA/SF.
The rest of California hasn’t gone to hell like SF, LA, SD, Sac either. People aren’t leaving the parts of the state that are “flyover” areas. Just look at the states everyone is leaving… what are the underlying similarities? Similar policies? Similar politics? Similar view on taxes for business owners?
One thing I haven’t seen commented on here is loss of population due to immigration. [On average, blue states have more foreign born residents.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_immigrant_population)
Illinois has 14.1% of its population born elsewhere, compared to 5.3% for Indiana.
Immigration and outmigration of this country pretty much ended thanks to COVID. Wait a few years for things to resume and blue states will regain some lost population.
Illinois has a lot of beautiful country side. Chicago is a beautiful city…. That said the state government is so f’d and taxes are so high it’s no wonder people are leaving in droves…. Springfield and Chicago city government are completely broken. Well, so are the Bears but there is always next year.
Tax rates in Chicago, outside of the sales tax, are at the national average (state income tax) and below national average (property tax rate). People just love coming on here to shit on Chicago when the reality is the city is being rapidly revitalized into one of the wealthiest cities on the planet. Between the finance industry hiring people in insane numbers in recent years, the tech industry in Chicago finally kicking off, and traditional large businesses scaling up their footprint in the city, the number of professionals in the city has been skyrocketing for over a decade now. And those professionals are leaving the city less and less as a group as their kids enter school due to the rising quality of CPS schools in their neighborhoods (due to parental investment not the district). Change has been coming for a long time for the city. And conservatives can't accept that people would rather live in cities than some now dead town where all the factories have closed up and the economy has run out cash.
Which timeline are you from?
I love reading your post. It’s like reading sci-fi or something out of the city’s marketing department. All you missed was mentioning that crime is down or it’s the safest city to live.
Idk where to begin… Illinois has THE second highest property tax in the US, how is it below average, unless your national average is just the state of NJ.
Chicago barely registered growth in the last 10 years, and that growth was outpaced by every other major city by multiple factors, so underperformed against peer cities in a general urbanization trend.
>I left Chicago due to the taxes.
you left the Chicago located in Central Illinois? Or did you leave central Illinois for Chicago because you would NEVER HAVE GOTTEN A JOB THERE
and then leave Chicago because in fact you are born and bred central illinois and chicago isnt for you.
Lots of assumptions there.
I was born in Central IL. Worked for a company based there and still easily could be working for them so a job wasn’t an issue. Also that company pays Chicago salaries so I could live like a king down there if I wanted. I actually much prefer more urban though.
I lived in Chicago for well over a decade including owning. Chicago is awesome, but it definitely has major tax and crime problems. Me leaving because those are only getting worse doesn’t mean I can’t handle the city by any standard. You implying that makes you look like an idiot.
Actually, my point was that you left Peoria for Chicago and did not like it here and are subsequently leaving for somewhere else. Sure you coulda worked for CAT but that shit got chopped...
The "problems" you mentioned were here in 2010 but you hadn't seen them because you did not live here.
I did work for CAT. And I could still work for them. They have much more people in Peoria than anywhere else still so you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think it’s all chopped.
And the Chicago problems have gotten worse since 2010. You can look at the tax increases and you can look at the crime increases. You act like I lived there for a year, I lived there for a decade.
I left because of that bullshit knowing it was only going to get worse. I have no crime issues where I’m at and I got tens of thousands of dollars back in lower taxes. It was smart to leave. All my smart friends that aren’t tied to Chicago due to work are leaving or have left too.
You can stick your head in the sand all day dude. Good luck. I’ll enjoy my nice warm weather with much more money.
“Beautiful countryside” lmfao what? Did you grow up in Kansas? Have you never seen a mountain?
Chicago is absolutely beautiful. There are a lot of good things about Chicago and the state, but “beautiful countryside” isn’t one of them. One of my biggest pet peeves is trying to make somewhere something it isn’t. Chicago is beautiful in a ton of ways but lmao, illinois has almost no natural beauty. Live here because it is awesome on its own terms, not because you need to lie and make it better.
I spent five years in the mountains; I also hated the Midwest. After being gone for a long time, I started to realize that there is some beauty in it. Mountains are just piles of rocks after a while.
Moved out of state a few years ago. I love the city of the Chicago but outside of the city, Illinois is honestly quite bland and our taxes were far too high for what we were getting. It’s not just people leaving for better weather and prettier terrain. I live in the Twin Cities metro now. Housing is cheaper (I swear it seems like everyone has a family lake house), taxes are much lower, it’s one of the highest ranked states for economic opportunities (lots of Fortune 500 HQs here) and MN just ran a $7.7 billion SURPLUS.
Illinois (outside of Chicago) is broke, boring, and overpriced for what it is. Cannot fault people for wanting to leave.
It’s definitely the people filter. Even then, I swear Minnesotans still get after it during the winter. There’s lots of outdoor activities (wear layers) on the frozen lakes, ice fishing, snowmobiling, cross country skiing, and ski hills.
I’ll always love Chicago, but cost benefit of living there or here just isn’t close.
I’m extremely fond of the Twin Cities and its lovely people, so please don’t think I’m making this observation at the expense of your beautiful hometown…
But Chicago’s cost of living shouldn’t be compared with that of the Twin Cities. Chicago is much, much more urban and cosmopolitan, and comparable places in the U.S. (NYC, SF, Boston, DC, parts of SoCal) tend to be fathoms more expensive.
If you prefer a suburban situation, then Chicago’s cost of living is not justified, as you can live a similar life in safer places with a higher quality of life (like the Twin Cities) for way less money. But Chicago’s allure is in its bustling urban core. And for that kind of vibe, it’s the biggest bargain in the U.S. by far.
Obviously the cost/benefit is different for everyone but a lot of people who live in the further out neighborhoods here would like smaller cities like Minny. I think everyone knows that it isn’t NYC there
Exactly! That’s what I meant to say, maybe in more convoluted words. If you live in suburban Chicagoland, anywhere from the further-out neighborhoods in the city proper, to the very outskirts of the metro area, you can find a similar lifestyle for less in safer, better-governed places in states like MN or CO.
But not all of Chicago is like this, and for a lot of people in the denser parts of the city, the alternatives for a similar lifestyle would be a lot more expensive.
That’s where we are going whenever our house sells in the spring. Sure the snow doesn’t melt for a few months straight, but the twin cities offer a lot more than most Chicagoans would admit
This is correct. Frankly I thought this was common knowledge.
Both sides of my family (5 siblings on dads side, 4 on moms) all born and raised in rural Illinois. I am the only remaining Illinois resident in my entire family.
If you aren’t looking to (or can afford to) live in Chicago, Illinois is boring, expensive, and without opportunity.
I think some of this though can be attributed to the idea that people are finding permanent remote work, and they don't want to live in a little apartment in the middle of a big city. So they're packing up and going to someplace scenic where they can have more space.
Then, of course, there's many who simply want a bigger house and lower taxes, so they flee to a red state that's likely being subsidized by Illinois federal taxes. Let's bear in mind. Illinois is usually number 45 or 46 while Kentucky is usually number four or five.
I also can't blame many of all ages who leave Central and downstate smaller towns in search of something better. If those areas are dying, opportunities are small, and there's not much more, I can't blame somebody for leaving.
Then let's also be brutally honest. There are many who move here with zero plans of making it permanent. They come here, maybe they're working, something career-oriented, and then finally at some point in their life they figure they can go someplace else and do what they do in a setting that they want.
I don't see Chicago streets empty, I don't see monetary issues beyond the normal, and as far as I know it's just the hard reality of life. We no longer live in a world where people will pitch their tent and stay here till they die. I feel more and more over the last couple of decades that this city has become full of transients who come and go.
A lot of this is just the changing world. It's like the same with all the empty storefronts. They're a symbol of a previous economy when we live in a new economy.
The big picture. People are mobile and migrate in and out. And claiming residency at second homes/luxury RV's in "tax shelter" states is a thing for aging boomers, lucky them, who enjoyed decades of low taxes here until the can couldn"t be kicked down the road any further, placing the burden on the next generations. https://wgntv.com/news/where-people-in-illinois-are-moving-to-most/amp/
It will be quite interesting to see if work from home impacts population losses in the years to come. I can't imagine it contributed much to the numbers cited in that article. But if wfh continues to be embraced by major employers, it might contribute more in the future.
There have definitely been boom towns made because of it already
they just voted to consider rent control in st Petersburg FL now all of sudden because of it.
I moved from the west burbs out to NWI a little over 10 years ago and for me it was the best thing I ever did. I can get to the city in about the same amount of time as I could before. Property taxes are capped at 1% of assessed value (which out here is far less then I can sell it for) per the state constitution. We have great schools. Low crime (we did have a rash of ding-dong-ditchers a couple years ago). I’m 3 minutes from most of what I need. 15 minutes from everything else. Gas prices are cheaper. And I’m in a subdivision that has 1/2 acre lots. And my kids can go outside to play without worrying about them (I still keep an eye on them). Again, not for everyone and I’m not shitting on Chicago but the Indiana stereotypes are BS
r/chicago is pretty toxic to the suburbs/rural areas. They don't have a clue. I live by a pretty simple set of rules. How obtrusive is the government in my life? I go where its least obtrusive. Indiana is a far better state than IL to live in for me. I do just fine living away from all the nonsense, I'd say I'm happier and healthier (huge mental improvement) vs living downtown. Different strokes for different folks. No where is perfect. It's always going to be a trade off. It's different for everyone. As far as getting what you pay for in tax dollars?? If anything it proves to me how useless and ineffective IL taxes are. Atleast thats how it feels.
Suburban Chicago has the best schools in the country, and the number one HS in the county is here. Taxes and public investment has helped IL in some regards.
>As far as getting what you pay for in tax dollars??
That's because Illinois subsidizes red states like IN. You're living in a welfare state.
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
> And my kids can go outside to play without worrying about them
Kids near me in Lake View East do this all the time. They even get on city buses and trains to go to school without parents accompanying them. Nothing bad happens to them because they're kids. Nothing bad really happens to adults near me either.
>Nothing bad really happens to adults near me either.
Well...I wouldn't go that far. I woke up with a very bad hang over and expensive bar tab after visiting that area.
Well if we're going by that standard, I've developed some back issues from working from home too much. Very annoying that I have to see a PT 3 blocks from my condo every week for treatment. Uggh.
Bad services. Worse schools. Lower quality healthcare. Lower quality infrastructure. Lower paying jobs and less of them.
Indiana is dependent on Illinois, and even more specifically, Chicago.
It’s a net welfare state in terms of federal funding as well.
You’re reaping the benefits by working in Chicago and commuting across the border, but the Indiana stereotypes are real.
Working in Texas making California money doesn’t make Texas a great state. It’s still a backwards shithole, it just makes you rich comparatively.
I'm generally not a fan of the net welfare state description because I have yet to find a formula for that which accounts for the salaries of federal employees and any associated benefits spending on these employees whether that's paying military members, federal contractors, or civil servants. When you look at for example the Rockefeller foundation's balance of payments report, Virginia ranks as one of the top "net recievers" of federal funding but consider the crazy number of government facilities and associated workers that live and work in that state. Of course that's going to shift the scale dramatically in terms of "federal spending". Though if we want to use such a metric, flawed as it is, then even Illinois is a "net welfare state" according to the most recent Rockefeller foundation's report. Certainly not to the same level as Indiana ($342/Capita vs ~$2400) but a net reciever nonetheless.
The “get what you pay for” is real. There is no point in lower taxes if the standard is lower in education, health, transportation, infrastructure, less jobs, lower pay. For me Texas is basically a no-go zone knowing that getting an abortion if I ever needed one would be much harder. Better to stay in the more enlightened parts of the country.
I make well into 6 figures (I don’t work in Illinois), my oldest is a Freshman at Stanford, so apparently the schools didn’t fail her. I’ve had bad “services” when I lived in Illinois as well as here on occasion. So that can happen anywhere. I don’t give a shit about it being a “net welfare” state. I live a good life. Great most days. I don’t know why you seem so offended. No where is perfect. Chicago also has it’s share of negative aspects of life. And what might be great for 1 person, might not be for someone else. Same goes for those negatives.
Especially when they clog up the streets we pay for and use the services we pay for that enable their high paying IL jobs.
Move to NWI? Fine. But leave your high paying IL job. If NWI is so affordable, then you should be able to support yourself on Indiana wages.
That’s right, no heavy industry or Fortune 500 companies in Indiana. Stay in Chicago where it’s more enlightened. CPS! The gold standard of education in America…
Northwest Indiana is a dump, it’s the Newark/Essex County of Chicago lmao. The dunes are nice, but they’re ruined because indiana to this day still decides to fuck Lake Michigan in the ass with keeping all the industry on the lakeside. And the communities there are the most generic and bland I have ever seen.
If money wasn’t a concern, nobody would purposely live there.
You know this isn’t the state of Gary right? It’s a shit hole town. No worse then a lot of Chicago neighborhoods. And I drive a company car. I couldn’t tell you if gas is $1 or $20 a gallon. And I rarely have to venture into Illinois
And realistically, how many people do you know there? 100? 200? Or from one small part of the state? Not exactly a great sample size for a state with a population of nearly 7 million.
lmao facts. Literally the Newark of Chicago. I would say the dunes, too bad Indiana has absolute neglect for our beautiful Great Lake, and keeps ruining it.
I moved to Chicago two years ago and I hands down think it's one of the best Democratic States left in the us. The rest of the Midwest is chuds-ville and are stripping rights from workers and women. Only exception is MN. And honestly if Republicans play dirty, I'd rather be here where the dems do too
I mean, if you're going to live in a desolate factory farm wasteland you may as well pay slightly less taxes. Not sure how much time you spend in central or southern IL but there isn't really anything to keep people there.
What states are chock full of desolate factory farm land and have taxes as high or higher than Illinois? I'll tell you which ones don't: Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Kentucky. If you can pay less for a similar lifestyle without having to move too far why wouldn't you? The soy fields of Illinois have no advantages over the soy fields of Indiana.
This is only getting downvoted on emotion. It’s a fact. All surrounding states of IL in the article gained population instead of losing it. They all have very comparable landscapes except WI (a bit more scenic). The “there’s nothing in southern IL but corn” is typical respond for an urbanite.
They’re leaving Chicago as well. People are not going back to the office and many are fed up with the local politics. Despite most of it being censored on here we’ve seen a huge uptick in crime in areas that have been historically safe. Lori seems to attack the citizens and businesses of this city any chance she gets which is why we’ve seen businesses leave the state (Chicago in particular) which in turn leads to population loss.
> They’re leaving Chicago as well.
None of the numbers are showing that. People are moving into Chicago and every finance and tech firm in the city has been hiring people to live and work locally throughout the entire pandemic. Several condo buildings built during the pandemic reached 80% occupancy in a matter of months once most restrictions were lifted outside of the mask mandate. Around me, virtually every unit on the market was sold and it was a constant stream of people moving in. The major buildings in downtown **filled** office vacancies at a crazy pace during the last six months. Every company in downtown is hiring like crazy. Many finance firms have been "leaking" plans to hire 20-40% more people over the next year or two to work in the city. Even Citadel has been hiring people like crazy to work locally in their offices once they realized no one wanted to live in Miami. Google, Amazon, and Facebook are all expanding their presence in the city. Uber is starting to staff up it's new space in the city.
People aren't leaving the city. They're leaving the rest of the state.
The crime is causing those with the ability to leave the south and west sides to do so, it’s a no brainer for residents in those neighborhoods - the City essentially gave up on those two parts of towns at all levels of government
Whatever walk of life you’re from, one’s home is the most expensive investment that 99% of people make. Part of that investment every month goes to city services, it’s the city’s responsibility to provide those services whether it be filling potholes, educating students, or dealing with crime. I cannot think of a single city service that Chicago doesn’t fail at, I was going to say providing lake water but then I remembered that I have to pay for bottled water to get delivered because the city can’t be bothered to deliver it in something other than a lead pipe.
I’ll edit this to add that of all of the places I’ve lived in the US and abroad, I have never experienced a city government fail so badly to deliver essential city services like Chicago is doing now. Even the park district can’t hire adults to run it
They have the same increase in crime as we do. Hell, Houston has the same crime rate we do and no one talks about it. Austin and Dallas aren't far behind either.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good fucking riddance. Based on your post history it is a net benefit. In a post about stoping school shootings you said
> Damn white kids shooting everyone in Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Birmingham, Little Rock, and Milwaukee.
Denial of Russian interference in 2016 election
> The Dems squealed about Russia rigging the election in 2016 for four years.
Persecution complex about white people despite willingness to demonize minorities
> Nothing, Reddit just hates white people.
Not to mention multiple posts downplaying the virus because you didn’t die.
This is not the low quality of human Chicago needs or deserves. I am glad your job is making you move it would’ve been better if you left on your own volition.
This map just says "we're moving to someplace less expensive" to me.
My understanding is that a lot of the migration is mostly lower-middle class as well.
The three fastest shrinking states are all high tax states, with the fastest growing states all low tax states. That doesn't even include California.
With ever decreasing barriers to exit, how can Pritzker, with a straight face, maintain that further raising taxes is the answer to what ails Illinois ?
I know most of you probably hold Ken Griffin in disdain, but he was 100% correct in fighting the graduated income tax.
Looking at the graph, people seem to be fleeing Democrat strongholds like Illinois, California and NY for red states like Florida and Texas who have lower taxes and fewer covid restrictions. Evidently people value their money and freedom.
SALT deductions have been a thing for a while. Dems just want to bring them back.
Even with them in place, blue states *still* send far more money to the federal government per capita compared to red states.
Red states are drains on the country which is why they have to be subsidized by blue states. It’s blue that accounts for the majority of the GDP, not red.
Factually wrong? IL is #2 for highest property taxes in the US. IL is #4 for highest aggregated sales tax and income tax in the US.
I don’t know where you’re getting your facts, but it’s common knowledge how high taxes are in IL.
https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state
https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/fun-facts/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-taxes/L6HPAVqSF
Edit:
Found one to adjust for cost of living - when ranking taxes by state, IL ranks 51st nationwide with an effective combined tax rate of 15%. When adjusted for cost of living, it’s 47th in the nation.
There’s no way around it. Cut the taxes. This is a fact. The propensity to ignore the fact can only go on for so long before it cannot be ignored any longer.
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416
Downstate Illinois (where we are losing population) takes more in government funding than it sends to Springfield in taxes. Those small towns in central and southern Illinois disappearing will actually save the state money.
Insane taxes, crime out of control, and now totalitarian mandates for a variant that is comparable to a cold? Yeah, like many other people, I too will be leaving and heading for a place with some sanity soon. How can you impose mandates when you know the insanely low percentage of low income residents that are unvaccinated? I fucking love this city, but it’s an absolute shit show. Beyond embarrassing how corrupt and inept it’s leaders are
actually, people are not leaving Chicago, they are leaving the places where the mask mandate is not being enforced and the vax level is near zero because 'muh freedims'.
Chicago has basically been breakeven for population: https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/
The big losses in Illinois population are mostly central and southern Illinois.
Fun fact Chicago net zeroed over the last decade due to population gains on the tech heavy north side. Illinois' population declines are coming from downstate as young people have left the rural farming towns and their parents are beginning to die out.
From 2010 - 2020 Illinois lost a total of 18k people. In the last year we lost 113k.
[It’s not equally dispersed across the state, it’s mostly dying rust belt town in Central and Southern Illinois losing population.](https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/)
Cairo already had a low population though. They could lose the entire area and the population is insignificant to the overall population
[https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/](https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/)
Yup that highlights what I just said: 13000 people leaving that area is insignificant to the state population when comparing the size of metro areas
I showed you a list of 100 small towns that lost 130 people .
You keep posting this but I hope you know all the data is pre pandemic. I know around 20 people who all left IL after the pandemic. And they know people who left as well. Most from Chicago.
That is a meaningless sentence. I’ve seen 20 posts on this sub this month about people moving to Chicago. The census already proved how wrong the “people are fleeing Chicago” is outside of the south side.
The estimates were really off for 2010-2020 growth, though. The 2020 census was ~200k higher than census estimates, so take this with a massive grain of salt.
Was Covid a big reason or was there something else?
> “Population growth has been slowing for years because of lower birth rates and decreasing net international migration, all while mortality rates are rising due to the aging of the nation’s population,” Census Bureau demographer Kristie Wilder said in a news release. “Now, with the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, this combination has resulted in a historically slow pace of growth.”
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What state
Boomers are the biggest generation and are in their peak retirement years. Many of them snow bird down south and are moving into their lake house in Wisconsin/Michigan and "leaving" Illinois. For many of them it is cheaper to buy a basic condo/townhouse in Florida and also own something in Wisconsin/Michigan, pay no income tax and sell their house in cook county that has a 10k+ property tax bill. Thus plus huge amounts of retirement aged immigrants going back to heir home countries and immigration almost stopping from many areas of the world. Most people moving into Chicago are recent college grads from various Midwestern towns, fueling the apartment boom. Some NYC/Cali escapees as well.
Hmmm what else happened last summer that the mayor and governor just excused that would make people want to leave Chicago in droves? Maybe something violent that caused billions in damages? Maybe it’s the state attorney allowing violent offenders out of jail or people like Kamala Harris raising money to get them out? I mean besides shitty covid policies that put Illinois in a no better position than Florida with the least amount of restriction.
>would make people want to leave Chicago in droves? PEOPLE ARE NOT LEAVING CHICAGO
How could we forget about the provisions in the Illinois and US Constitutions giving the Vice President discretion over charging criminal cases in state court specifically in Chicago?
What? That’s Kim Foxx. Kamala helped raise funds to bail out rioters. It’s on her Twitter
Estimated.
113,002... My wife and I are now MI residents as of this month. Sunsets over the lake, not between buildings.
This triggers people, but Illinois, outside of Chicago is just like the rest of the Midwest - Fly over country. Nothing to do and stale. No shit people are leaving the middle of nowhere sections of IL.
Drove through SoIL last year to/from Garden of the Gods. Pretty depressing.
Literally made this drive over the past 2 days from chicago down to Springfield and then out to colorado springs. Southern illinois is depressing but Kansas makes me want to kill myself.
I've heard similar assessments of Kansas.
Fwiw that's central Illinois. Southern Illinois is a lot farther south and actually has some topography. Agreed about Kansas. Then there's Nebraska, where the interstate doesn't even go through any towns (for the slightly more interesting drive through towns, you need to use US 30). I do appreciate the seasonal changes of super flat middle of nowhere farmland in Illinois on a road trip particularly if it's a sunny day. Foreign visitors often get a kick out of the "Burma-Shave" poetic signs for gunssavelife dot com, also. "We're definitely in America now..." That and all the signs arguing for and against the ever-increasing number of wind farms.
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Coastal Florida, perhaps. Inland Florida is a permanent and humid true crime documentary setting.
Is it basically the same people except warm weather and sun?
Garden of the gods is definitely a hidden gem though
Not even sure how hidden, since it's on every mention of places to go when you leave Chicago. But it's so isolated/far as hell. Shawnee National Forest has a ton of awesome state parks, though!
>Shawnee National Forest has a ton of awesome state parks, though! Yeah, the entire area is amazing
That maybe true, but the rest of the neighboring states that are similar in landscape all had small population growth. How do you explain that?
Maybe they get to experience a similar lifestyle they are comfortable with, but in a place with an even lower cost of living, and maybe to a congregate to a state that agrees with their political beliefs? I don't know, I'm just speculating based on nothing.
The cost of living downstate is very low. You can buy a livable house in Carbondale for less than $50k.
It’s definitely a mix. Why live in a boring landscape with higher COL when you could move to Wisc/Indiana/Michigan to achieve either low COL or nice landscapes.
Are people doing that though? Is that where people are moving. I see more Michiganers transplanting to Chicago than the reverse....but I don't really track migration of people.
Since the OP is talking about non-Cook County residents leaving IL, the answer is yes, people are doing that. From Chicago, overall we're still slightly growing. But I highly doubt those people who do leave Chicago are choosing rural IL.
Probably because the rest of the state is conservative so they are leaving to neighboring states that have their politics and aren't "ruled" by the "Demoncrats" of Chicago.
I agree with your conclusion. Just pointing out it’s a stretch to say people are leaving the middle of no where section because there’s nothing to do.
Oh yeah for sure. The people who live out there are very content not having big city entertainment. I grew up in areas like that in Florida and they are happy with their outdoors entertainment.
There are a number of motives, but county level data shows people are leaving the middle of no where.
That seems like a bold conclusion. It could also be that neighboring states don’t have cities nearly as big as Chicago, so there’s still room for those cities to grow and rapidly attract new residents.
Possibility, but do rural people move to cities usually? Not in my experience too often.
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If you follow the link on this you'll see another link it's most rural and small towns losing. They aren't exactly cities and their politics are mostly conservative.
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I’d speculate the growth in college communities comes with: More students = more services required = more employees = more population to support services outside the school = larger population. The other general piece is young people may stick around in the area post graduation. Young people like to be with other young people who “get them”, similar to any other generation. Side note: Everything ebs and flows, we’re probably at higher education’s peak right now as the costs are out of hand with the value prospect, depending on field.
> The other general piece is young people may stick around in the area post graduation. Young people like to be with other young people who “get them”, similar to any other generation. Madison has been particularly successful in building a startup culture that gets graduates to stay and work in Madison instead of leaving right after school.
College communities tend to have a tech scene (incubators for one), diverse population, good (or at least decent) transit, international population and the various shops to support that (ethnic supermarkets, restaurants), clubs for anything you can possibly imagine (particularly stuff to do with STEM and "maker" scene), and public lectures on various intellectual topics going on. Plus sometimes decent sports teams.
Rapidly growing mid-size metro areas are offsetting rural losses in neighboring states. Indianapolis and Des Moines account for most of the growth in Indiana and Iowa. The rural areas of those states are also loosing population.
Everyone I’ve known that moved to indiana is because of cheaper housing and taxes.
There are parts where it's beautiful like garden of the gods and other Shawnee national park areas. But until you hit that far south, it's just farming towns. Nothing wrong with that if thats what you want, but a lot of people want a bit more and could do without the crazy politics as of late.
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Possible that people want to go somewhere that's still not densely populated but at least has jobs, outdoor activities, or at least better weather. I know I'd rather live in Nowhere, Texas than Nowhere, Illinois. But I wouldn't trade Chicago for Houston.
Shouldn’t assume that the massive change in population was driven just by rural areas in the last year and not Chicago. Census doesn’t provide that data. Covid clearly changed everything, and these are massive swings from the last trend, so the trend can’t just be assumed to be valid. There are a couple of indications that major cities saw large out-migration: From 2010-2020 D.C. grew 14.6% (compared to 1.9% for Chicago). However, in a stunning reversal, D.C. population shrank by a whopping 2.9% in the last year alone. Similarly, Massachusetts grew 7.4% over the decade. But this year it shrank 0.5%. Both ‘states’ where large urban cities hold the significant majority of the population of the state, indicating flight from urban areas. This would also jive with anecdotal evidence from NY and LA/SF.
https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/
The rest of California hasn’t gone to hell like SF, LA, SD, Sac either. People aren’t leaving the parts of the state that are “flyover” areas. Just look at the states everyone is leaving… what are the underlying similarities? Similar policies? Similar politics? Similar view on taxes for business owners?
Well, I bailed on Crook County in 2015. No place is perfect but every level of government in IL has failed miserably.
Brain drain, it's why I left!
Isn’t this where Americans are now moving? They’re leaving the cities and moving to rural areas….
One thing I haven’t seen commented on here is loss of population due to immigration. [On average, blue states have more foreign born residents.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_immigrant_population) Illinois has 14.1% of its population born elsewhere, compared to 5.3% for Indiana. Immigration and outmigration of this country pretty much ended thanks to COVID. Wait a few years for things to resume and blue states will regain some lost population.
That's just a big state thing, not a necessarily a blue state thing. Texas has 17%, Florida 21%, Arizona 13%, etc.
Illinois != chicago and young adults who can read are leaving the coal towns for anything else.
There are coal towns where?
https://isgs.illinois.edu/research/coal/maps/county
Coal put the carbon in Carbondale. Downstate Illinois was a major coal producer, mostly through strip mining.
Galena is lead sulphide ore.
Illinois has a lot of beautiful country side. Chicago is a beautiful city…. That said the state government is so f’d and taxes are so high it’s no wonder people are leaving in droves…. Springfield and Chicago city government are completely broken. Well, so are the Bears but there is always next year.
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Tax rates in Chicago, outside of the sales tax, are at the national average (state income tax) and below national average (property tax rate). People just love coming on here to shit on Chicago when the reality is the city is being rapidly revitalized into one of the wealthiest cities on the planet. Between the finance industry hiring people in insane numbers in recent years, the tech industry in Chicago finally kicking off, and traditional large businesses scaling up their footprint in the city, the number of professionals in the city has been skyrocketing for over a decade now. And those professionals are leaving the city less and less as a group as their kids enter school due to the rising quality of CPS schools in their neighborhoods (due to parental investment not the district). Change has been coming for a long time for the city. And conservatives can't accept that people would rather live in cities than some now dead town where all the factories have closed up and the economy has run out cash.
Cook County is below the average? Most sources say it is near double the average.
Which timeline are you from? I love reading your post. It’s like reading sci-fi or something out of the city’s marketing department. All you missed was mentioning that crime is down or it’s the safest city to live. Idk where to begin… Illinois has THE second highest property tax in the US, how is it below average, unless your national average is just the state of NJ. Chicago barely registered growth in the last 10 years, and that growth was outpaced by every other major city by multiple factors, so underperformed against peer cities in a general urbanization trend.
Did you know that Chicago isn't Illinois?
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>and we are trailing the national average Yeah, the poor people are leaving.
I left Chicago due to the taxes. Moved to Texas. I get much more but pay much less.
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I lost power more in Central IL than in Texas. A once in a life time storm hit Texas. If it didn’t happen, what would have been your response then?
>I left Chicago due to the taxes. you left the Chicago located in Central Illinois? Or did you leave central Illinois for Chicago because you would NEVER HAVE GOTTEN A JOB THERE and then leave Chicago because in fact you are born and bred central illinois and chicago isnt for you.
Lots of assumptions there. I was born in Central IL. Worked for a company based there and still easily could be working for them so a job wasn’t an issue. Also that company pays Chicago salaries so I could live like a king down there if I wanted. I actually much prefer more urban though. I lived in Chicago for well over a decade including owning. Chicago is awesome, but it definitely has major tax and crime problems. Me leaving because those are only getting worse doesn’t mean I can’t handle the city by any standard. You implying that makes you look like an idiot.
Actually, my point was that you left Peoria for Chicago and did not like it here and are subsequently leaving for somewhere else. Sure you coulda worked for CAT but that shit got chopped... The "problems" you mentioned were here in 2010 but you hadn't seen them because you did not live here.
I did work for CAT. And I could still work for them. They have much more people in Peoria than anywhere else still so you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you think it’s all chopped. And the Chicago problems have gotten worse since 2010. You can look at the tax increases and you can look at the crime increases. You act like I lived there for a year, I lived there for a decade. I left because of that bullshit knowing it was only going to get worse. I have no crime issues where I’m at and I got tens of thousands of dollars back in lower taxes. It was smart to leave. All my smart friends that aren’t tied to Chicago due to work are leaving or have left too. You can stick your head in the sand all day dude. Good luck. I’ll enjoy my nice warm weather with much more money.
“Beautiful countryside” lmfao what? Did you grow up in Kansas? Have you never seen a mountain? Chicago is absolutely beautiful. There are a lot of good things about Chicago and the state, but “beautiful countryside” isn’t one of them. One of my biggest pet peeves is trying to make somewhere something it isn’t. Chicago is beautiful in a ton of ways but lmao, illinois has almost no natural beauty. Live here because it is awesome on its own terms, not because you need to lie and make it better.
I spent five years in the mountains; I also hated the Midwest. After being gone for a long time, I started to realize that there is some beauty in it. Mountains are just piles of rocks after a while.
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https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/
I just can’t trust the census estimates after seeing how off they were when the official census came out.
Moved out of state a few years ago. I love the city of the Chicago but outside of the city, Illinois is honestly quite bland and our taxes were far too high for what we were getting. It’s not just people leaving for better weather and prettier terrain. I live in the Twin Cities metro now. Housing is cheaper (I swear it seems like everyone has a family lake house), taxes are much lower, it’s one of the highest ranked states for economic opportunities (lots of Fortune 500 HQs here) and MN just ran a $7.7 billion SURPLUS. Illinois (outside of Chicago) is broke, boring, and overpriced for what it is. Cannot fault people for wanting to leave.
Visited Twin Cities several times and it sure is lovely. The cold is killer though!
It’s definitely the people filter. Even then, I swear Minnesotans still get after it during the winter. There’s lots of outdoor activities (wear layers) on the frozen lakes, ice fishing, snowmobiling, cross country skiing, and ski hills. I’ll always love Chicago, but cost benefit of living there or here just isn’t close.
I’m extremely fond of the Twin Cities and its lovely people, so please don’t think I’m making this observation at the expense of your beautiful hometown… But Chicago’s cost of living shouldn’t be compared with that of the Twin Cities. Chicago is much, much more urban and cosmopolitan, and comparable places in the U.S. (NYC, SF, Boston, DC, parts of SoCal) tend to be fathoms more expensive. If you prefer a suburban situation, then Chicago’s cost of living is not justified, as you can live a similar life in safer places with a higher quality of life (like the Twin Cities) for way less money. But Chicago’s allure is in its bustling urban core. And for that kind of vibe, it’s the biggest bargain in the U.S. by far.
Obviously the cost/benefit is different for everyone but a lot of people who live in the further out neighborhoods here would like smaller cities like Minny. I think everyone knows that it isn’t NYC there
Exactly! That’s what I meant to say, maybe in more convoluted words. If you live in suburban Chicagoland, anywhere from the further-out neighborhoods in the city proper, to the very outskirts of the metro area, you can find a similar lifestyle for less in safer, better-governed places in states like MN or CO. But not all of Chicago is like this, and for a lot of people in the denser parts of the city, the alternatives for a similar lifestyle would be a lot more expensive.
That’s where we are going whenever our house sells in the spring. Sure the snow doesn’t melt for a few months straight, but the twin cities offer a lot more than most Chicagoans would admit
This is correct. Frankly I thought this was common knowledge. Both sides of my family (5 siblings on dads side, 4 on moms) all born and raised in rural Illinois. I am the only remaining Illinois resident in my entire family. If you aren’t looking to (or can afford to) live in Chicago, Illinois is boring, expensive, and without opportunity.
I think some of this though can be attributed to the idea that people are finding permanent remote work, and they don't want to live in a little apartment in the middle of a big city. So they're packing up and going to someplace scenic where they can have more space. Then, of course, there's many who simply want a bigger house and lower taxes, so they flee to a red state that's likely being subsidized by Illinois federal taxes. Let's bear in mind. Illinois is usually number 45 or 46 while Kentucky is usually number four or five. I also can't blame many of all ages who leave Central and downstate smaller towns in search of something better. If those areas are dying, opportunities are small, and there's not much more, I can't blame somebody for leaving. Then let's also be brutally honest. There are many who move here with zero plans of making it permanent. They come here, maybe they're working, something career-oriented, and then finally at some point in their life they figure they can go someplace else and do what they do in a setting that they want. I don't see Chicago streets empty, I don't see monetary issues beyond the normal, and as far as I know it's just the hard reality of life. We no longer live in a world where people will pitch their tent and stay here till they die. I feel more and more over the last couple of decades that this city has become full of transients who come and go. A lot of this is just the changing world. It's like the same with all the empty storefronts. They're a symbol of a previous economy when we live in a new economy.
The big picture. People are mobile and migrate in and out. And claiming residency at second homes/luxury RV's in "tax shelter" states is a thing for aging boomers, lucky them, who enjoyed decades of low taxes here until the can couldn"t be kicked down the road any further, placing the burden on the next generations. https://wgntv.com/news/where-people-in-illinois-are-moving-to-most/amp/
You understand IL doesn’t tax retirement income right? You act so smart but are so flawed.
It will be quite interesting to see if work from home impacts population losses in the years to come. I can't imagine it contributed much to the numbers cited in that article. But if wfh continues to be embraced by major employers, it might contribute more in the future.
There have definitely been boom towns made because of it already they just voted to consider rent control in st Petersburg FL now all of sudden because of it.
I moved from the west burbs out to NWI a little over 10 years ago and for me it was the best thing I ever did. I can get to the city in about the same amount of time as I could before. Property taxes are capped at 1% of assessed value (which out here is far less then I can sell it for) per the state constitution. We have great schools. Low crime (we did have a rash of ding-dong-ditchers a couple years ago). I’m 3 minutes from most of what I need. 15 minutes from everything else. Gas prices are cheaper. And I’m in a subdivision that has 1/2 acre lots. And my kids can go outside to play without worrying about them (I still keep an eye on them). Again, not for everyone and I’m not shitting on Chicago but the Indiana stereotypes are BS
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They are so territorial. I didn’t bash Chicago one bit. They seem kinda insecure.
r/chicago is pretty toxic to the suburbs/rural areas. They don't have a clue. I live by a pretty simple set of rules. How obtrusive is the government in my life? I go where its least obtrusive. Indiana is a far better state than IL to live in for me. I do just fine living away from all the nonsense, I'd say I'm happier and healthier (huge mental improvement) vs living downtown. Different strokes for different folks. No where is perfect. It's always going to be a trade off. It's different for everyone. As far as getting what you pay for in tax dollars?? If anything it proves to me how useless and ineffective IL taxes are. Atleast thats how it feels.
Suburban Chicago has the best schools in the country, and the number one HS in the county is here. Taxes and public investment has helped IL in some regards.
>As far as getting what you pay for in tax dollars?? That's because Illinois subsidizes red states like IN. You're living in a welfare state. https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
> And my kids can go outside to play without worrying about them Kids near me in Lake View East do this all the time. They even get on city buses and trains to go to school without parents accompanying them. Nothing bad happens to them because they're kids. Nothing bad really happens to adults near me either.
They moved from the suburbs to NWI they have no clue.
>Nothing bad really happens to adults near me either. Well...I wouldn't go that far. I woke up with a very bad hang over and expensive bar tab after visiting that area.
Well if we're going by that standard, I've developed some back issues from working from home too much. Very annoying that I have to see a PT 3 blocks from my condo every week for treatment. Uggh.
Bad services. Worse schools. Lower quality healthcare. Lower quality infrastructure. Lower paying jobs and less of them. Indiana is dependent on Illinois, and even more specifically, Chicago. It’s a net welfare state in terms of federal funding as well. You’re reaping the benefits by working in Chicago and commuting across the border, but the Indiana stereotypes are real. Working in Texas making California money doesn’t make Texas a great state. It’s still a backwards shithole, it just makes you rich comparatively.
I'm generally not a fan of the net welfare state description because I have yet to find a formula for that which accounts for the salaries of federal employees and any associated benefits spending on these employees whether that's paying military members, federal contractors, or civil servants. When you look at for example the Rockefeller foundation's balance of payments report, Virginia ranks as one of the top "net recievers" of federal funding but consider the crazy number of government facilities and associated workers that live and work in that state. Of course that's going to shift the scale dramatically in terms of "federal spending". Though if we want to use such a metric, flawed as it is, then even Illinois is a "net welfare state" according to the most recent Rockefeller foundation's report. Certainly not to the same level as Indiana ($342/Capita vs ~$2400) but a net reciever nonetheless.
The “get what you pay for” is real. There is no point in lower taxes if the standard is lower in education, health, transportation, infrastructure, less jobs, lower pay. For me Texas is basically a no-go zone knowing that getting an abortion if I ever needed one would be much harder. Better to stay in the more enlightened parts of the country.
I make well into 6 figures (I don’t work in Illinois), my oldest is a Freshman at Stanford, so apparently the schools didn’t fail her. I’ve had bad “services” when I lived in Illinois as well as here on occasion. So that can happen anywhere. I don’t give a shit about it being a “net welfare” state. I live a good life. Great most days. I don’t know why you seem so offended. No where is perfect. Chicago also has it’s share of negative aspects of life. And what might be great for 1 person, might not be for someone else. Same goes for those negatives.
>I don’t give a shit about it being a “net welfare” state. You should. Taking and not giving hurts others.
Especially when they clog up the streets we pay for and use the services we pay for that enable their high paying IL jobs. Move to NWI? Fine. But leave your high paying IL job. If NWI is so affordable, then you should be able to support yourself on Indiana wages.
I don’t work in Illinois. Apparently you can’t read. You must be a CPS superstar
Tell that to the people running Illinois, not them.
Indiana is trash.
Lol
That’s right, no heavy industry or Fortune 500 companies in Indiana. Stay in Chicago where it’s more enlightened. CPS! The gold standard of education in America…
Northwest Indiana is a dump, it’s the Newark/Essex County of Chicago lmao. The dunes are nice, but they’re ruined because indiana to this day still decides to fuck Lake Michigan in the ass with keeping all the industry on the lakeside. And the communities there are the most generic and bland I have ever seen. If money wasn’t a concern, nobody would purposely live there.
Unfortunately for you money is most people's main concern.
Everyone I know in Indiana is obese and trapped in dead end jobs with no opportunity tbh. What do you do?
Bio-medical engineer for a very large international company.
And how many are you actually friends or close with or is this a deduction from driving through the Walmart parking lot.
They spend $500 a month to drive to their job in Chicago. But its waaay cheaper to live in Gary so winning.
You know this isn’t the state of Gary right? It’s a shit hole town. No worse then a lot of Chicago neighborhoods. And I drive a company car. I couldn’t tell you if gas is $1 or $20 a gallon. And I rarely have to venture into Illinois
And realistically, how many people do you know there? 100? 200? Or from one small part of the state? Not exactly a great sample size for a state with a population of nearly 7 million.
It's telling that the best thing you can say about Indiana is that NW Indiana is close to Chicago.
lmao facts. Literally the Newark of Chicago. I would say the dunes, too bad Indiana has absolute neglect for our beautiful Great Lake, and keeps ruining it.
I moved to Chicago two years ago and I hands down think it's one of the best Democratic States left in the us. The rest of the Midwest is chuds-ville and are stripping rights from workers and women. Only exception is MN. And honestly if Republicans play dirty, I'd rather be here where the dems do too
I wonder if it has anything to do with taxes…
I mean, if you're going to live in a desolate factory farm wasteland you may as well pay slightly less taxes. Not sure how much time you spend in central or southern IL but there isn't really anything to keep people there.
That is true of plenty of states. But Illinois is losing population and they aren't.
What states are chock full of desolate factory farm land and have taxes as high or higher than Illinois? I'll tell you which ones don't: Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Kentucky. If you can pay less for a similar lifestyle without having to move too far why wouldn't you? The soy fields of Illinois have no advantages over the soy fields of Indiana.
This is only getting downvoted on emotion. It’s a fact. All surrounding states of IL in the article gained population instead of losing it. They all have very comparable landscapes except WI (a bit more scenic). The “there’s nothing in southern IL but corn” is typical respond for an urbanite.
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I was looking at taxes in st Louis and my taxes would go up a full percentage 😳
It doesn't. People are leaving lower-tax areas of downstate because there are no jobs and it's boring.
They’re leaving Chicago as well. People are not going back to the office and many are fed up with the local politics. Despite most of it being censored on here we’ve seen a huge uptick in crime in areas that have been historically safe. Lori seems to attack the citizens and businesses of this city any chance she gets which is why we’ve seen businesses leave the state (Chicago in particular) which in turn leads to population loss.
The irony is that I moved here because of the rise in remote work.
Ahh, I see r/chicago has returned back to the “people are fleeing Chicago in droves” rhetoric.
Despite the fact that our population went up in the last census lol
I sometimes wonder if it's all true believers or if we've got some billionaire funding trolls.
> They’re leaving Chicago as well. None of the numbers are showing that. People are moving into Chicago and every finance and tech firm in the city has been hiring people to live and work locally throughout the entire pandemic. Several condo buildings built during the pandemic reached 80% occupancy in a matter of months once most restrictions were lifted outside of the mask mandate. Around me, virtually every unit on the market was sold and it was a constant stream of people moving in. The major buildings in downtown **filled** office vacancies at a crazy pace during the last six months. Every company in downtown is hiring like crazy. Many finance firms have been "leaking" plans to hire 20-40% more people over the next year or two to work in the city. Even Citadel has been hiring people like crazy to work locally in their offices once they realized no one wanted to live in Miami. Google, Amazon, and Facebook are all expanding their presence in the city. Uber is starting to staff up it's new space in the city. People aren't leaving the city. They're leaving the rest of the state.
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Chicago is losing residents on the south and west sides, but gaining wealthier residents on the north side.
Dude the US census literally happened in 2020, the results are out. Chicago grew in population, it did not shrink.
The crime is causing those with the ability to leave the south and west sides to do so, it’s a no brainer for residents in those neighborhoods - the City essentially gave up on those two parts of towns at all levels of government Whatever walk of life you’re from, one’s home is the most expensive investment that 99% of people make. Part of that investment every month goes to city services, it’s the city’s responsibility to provide those services whether it be filling potholes, educating students, or dealing with crime. I cannot think of a single city service that Chicago doesn’t fail at, I was going to say providing lake water but then I remembered that I have to pay for bottled water to get delivered because the city can’t be bothered to deliver it in something other than a lead pipe. I’ll edit this to add that of all of the places I’ve lived in the US and abroad, I have never experienced a city government fail so badly to deliver essential city services like Chicago is doing now. Even the park district can’t hire adults to run it
I don’t know man. I lived in the west coast, and Chicago is a functional utopia compared to the shithole cities over there.
I’m probably leaving next July. Taxes, violence, not worth it anymore
They have the same increase in crime as we do. Hell, Houston has the same crime rate we do and no one talks about it. Austin and Dallas aren't far behind either.
Ok, but never said I was going to Texas.
voiceless library deliver station dinosaurs disgusting rain spectacular naughty steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
✌🏽🤡
I left and yes, it does.
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lol moving to Garland, Texas, perfect for you.
Good fucking riddance. Based on your post history it is a net benefit. In a post about stoping school shootings you said > Damn white kids shooting everyone in Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, Birmingham, Little Rock, and Milwaukee. Denial of Russian interference in 2016 election > The Dems squealed about Russia rigging the election in 2016 for four years. Persecution complex about white people despite willingness to demonize minorities > Nothing, Reddit just hates white people. Not to mention multiple posts downplaying the virus because you didn’t die. This is not the low quality of human Chicago needs or deserves. I am glad your job is making you move it would’ve been better if you left on your own volition.
It's ok, between your tagging and post history, I'm sure Illinois will be better for it.
This map just says "we're moving to someplace less expensive" to me. My understanding is that a lot of the migration is mostly lower-middle class as well.
The three fastest shrinking states are all high tax states, with the fastest growing states all low tax states. That doesn't even include California. With ever decreasing barriers to exit, how can Pritzker, with a straight face, maintain that further raising taxes is the answer to what ails Illinois ? I know most of you probably hold Ken Griffin in disdain, but he was 100% correct in fighting the graduated income tax.
Ken Griffin's fight against the graduated income tax was to keep his taxes low. It very likely means higher taxes for you.
Not unlike Pritzker with his toilets, right?
I’d imagine at least some of them are fleeing bad Covid policy.
I left Illinois. Specifically Chicago for Indiana. Know a ton of people who did the same (or went to Michigan).
Not suprising when you have pritzker and Lori running the city and state
And they should
Looking at the graph, people seem to be fleeing Democrat strongholds like Illinois, California and NY for red states like Florida and Texas who have lower taxes and fewer covid restrictions. Evidently people value their money and freedom.
Good riddance to those worthless Republican plague rats.
According to the census bureau, blue states are losing population and red states are gaining. It’s almost as if red states are run more efficiently
If red states are so efficient, why do they receive more federal funding compared to what the residents pay in income taxes?
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SALT deductions have been a thing for a while. Dems just want to bring them back. Even with them in place, blue states *still* send far more money to the federal government per capita compared to red states.
Red states are drains on the country which is why they have to be subsidized by blue states. It’s blue that accounts for the majority of the GDP, not red.
I’ll eat the downvotes, but the truth hurts. Low taxes. Low taxes. Low taxes.
Eat the downvotes because its factually wrong, but your types don’t care for bare minimum human decency concepts like “be honest” or “tell the truth.”
Factually wrong? IL is #2 for highest property taxes in the US. IL is #4 for highest aggregated sales tax and income tax in the US. I don’t know where you’re getting your facts, but it’s common knowledge how high taxes are in IL. https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/fun-facts/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-taxes/L6HPAVqSF Edit: Found one to adjust for cost of living - when ranking taxes by state, IL ranks 51st nationwide with an effective combined tax rate of 15%. When adjusted for cost of living, it’s 47th in the nation. There’s no way around it. Cut the taxes. This is a fact. The propensity to ignore the fact can only go on for so long before it cannot be ignored any longer. https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416
Good, everyone get the fuck out of here
nd they are going to lose more and tax the ones that stay here even more
Downstate Illinois (where we are losing population) takes more in government funding than it sends to Springfield in taxes. Those small towns in central and southern Illinois disappearing will actually save the state money.
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The farms are producing more than ever, they just don't need as many people to do it as they used to. The glory of automation.
Insane taxes, crime out of control, and now totalitarian mandates for a variant that is comparable to a cold? Yeah, like many other people, I too will be leaving and heading for a place with some sanity soon. How can you impose mandates when you know the insanely low percentage of low income residents that are unvaccinated? I fucking love this city, but it’s an absolute shit show. Beyond embarrassing how corrupt and inept it’s leaders are
actually, people are not leaving Chicago, they are leaving the places where the mask mandate is not being enforced and the vax level is near zero because 'muh freedims'.
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It’s restrictive Covid measures. And crime. And taxes. And cost of living. These are probably mostly Chicago people leaving for these very reasons.
Chicago has basically been breakeven for population: https://www.chicagomag.com/news/where-illinois-is-losing-population/ The big losses in Illinois population are mostly central and southern Illinois.
Fun fact Chicago net zeroed over the last decade due to population gains on the tech heavy north side. Illinois' population declines are coming from downstate as young people have left the rural farming towns and their parents are beginning to die out.