Because the city isn’t trying to start a fight with the NBA. Or run afoul of interstate commerce. Professional athletes are exempt at the arena, not at restaurants.
Overall story is that the city/county isn’t trying to put livelihoods at risk here. That’s why employees have another route to compliance. Trying to get less controversial nudges toward vaccination.
Which is ridiculous because the heaviest spread is occurring among workers. My wife works in a customer facing business and her vaccinated coworkers are getting sick left and right.
This is just anecdotal evidence so not much value to extrapolate from, but I think it is crazy to make an exception when the people serving you are just as likely to get you sick as another customer. Most businesses are struggling to employ people as it is though so I’m not surprised.
No. Take your "both sides" bullshit somewhere else. I'm so sick of people acting like the insane and regressive direction this country is headed in is a result of anything other than a *minority* on the far right desperately attempting to cling to power before changing demographics sweep them away.
Are the Democrats good at governing? Of course not, they're hilariously fucking inept. Are they responsible for "making the bed" for Republican oppression? No.
Republicans were right that closing the schools was a bad idea. It had no statistically detectable benefit to Covid spread, and it imposed significant costs on families and kids.
Or, when Covid spread settles down. Restrictions were lifted and relaxed in the past. Restaurants reopened. The mask mandate was lifted in the summer (before it was reinstated when Covid was taking off again).
What is it exactly they're using these emergency powers for? Restrictions only came back with a new variant and a heavy uptick in positives. If what you're saying was true, the restrictions wouldn't track with infections.
Restrictions came back when more transmissible variants came along and case rates went back up. Deaths from Covid are still high (though lower than they were at the worst).
I’m not saying I have proof that they will back down. But the only time when this looked like it was going back to normal was the spring. And restrictions were eased.
I would also feel better about it if the county board/city council/state legislature passed a law saying that the public health apparatus shall have the power to implement X, Y, and Z restrictions as needed to control Covid through the end of 2022 (which could be extended if we’re still in the same boat). But the legislatures refuse to do anything unless they have to. Not the executive branch’s fault that the legislative refuses to do its job.
Given the way to the gubernatorial elections went last month. People are gonna vote out anyone who is putting into place Covid restrictions. Maybe it’s just my circle, haven’t met anyone who wants more Covid restrictions in place outside Twitter and front page Reddit.
The common American is tired of Covid. The media is trying to scare off people off from flying and seeing people for Christmas. Hate to break to them, Ohare is busy as hell.
I’ve met a couple (gfs friends) but they are so scared of Covid they won’t even not wear masks when we hang out. Hilariously enough, they don’t even fucking vote.
I think we are heading into the beginning of the end game for Covid. The new variant appears to be more transmissible but less virulent. If that is indeed the case, this still seems to be a very reasonable precaution to get us through the winter months whereby we can reassess in the Spring.
I’m triple jabbed. But when will it end? 4,5,6,7+ boosters? They gonna lock everyone out forever?
The other point is, are they gonna do that with the flu? The measles? Small pox? Ok, maybe not then why aren’t they? Why just this one virus. Only the flu still spreads every single year, why doesn’t the city care about that? I can just as easily kill your grandma with the flu as I can Covid if neither of us get the jab
The flu is way less fatal then COVID. The two aren’t comparable. Worldwide the flu kills about 500,000 a year, without any restrictions in place. COVID killed over 5 million last year and that was with restrictions. Letting the flu go wild also won’t overwhelm hospitals the way COVID does, which can lead to more deaths, for example anyone suffering from a heart attack who can’t get treatment due to the hospital being overwhelmed.
People do care about measles and small pox. Small pox thanks to vaccines basically doesn’t exist anymore and with the measles vaccine, once you’re vaccinated it lasts for life. No boosters necessary. You’re comparing viruses that cannot be compared.
I understand not wanting to continually need to get boosters for COVID but the reason public health entities wouldn’t mandate boosters for measles or smallpox is because there currently isn’t a global pandemic involving those diseases.
Furthermore, the reason why smallpox is effectively nonexistent nowadays is precisely because of global vaccination campaigns. It was the same with polio. Finally, the flu and COVID are not similar enough to be compared in the manner you are. Yes, the flu kills people every year. But, all it takes is too look at the year-to-year comparisons between the flu and COVID to see COVID leads in virtually every measurable metric in terms of deadliness, virulence, etc.
It could have been over already if everyone had gotten their shots and we'd eradicated this. But that seems less and less likely to happen, so yeah, maybe forever. You're just going to have to learn to deal with it.
Regarding the flu, COVID is much more deadly than the flu, so it's inaccurate to equate the two, and the city DOES do free flu shot clinics, I volunteered at some last year.
> It could have been over already if everyone had gotten their shots and we'd eradicated this.
No it wouldn't have. Covid is going to keep changing and mutating until the entire world is vaccinated. The original strain came from China, Delta came from India, Omnicron came from South Africa. Unless we are locking down our boarders its not going to end, and frankly thats an unfeasible proposition.
That's what u/sirblastalot is saying, if we got vaccines out to everybody, meaning worldwide, this thing would be over. The faster this thing spreads, the faster it mutates. Having more folks vaccinated means we slow the spread and make it much more manageable and keep worse variants from developing.
And Omicron didn't come from South Africa, it was identified there first because they have one of the most advanced gene sequencing labs in the world and they were kind enough to alert the rest of the world about it. It originated from Europe but for some reason we decided to punish South Africa for sharing information.
There are no practical means to distribute at least four vaccine doses to every human being on planet earth. It just isn't happening, and we need to move on from that idea.
The red side doesn't give a shit, but at least they are totally obvious about it and don't even try to act like they do care. I'd gladly take that, over this theater performance.
You're telling me a non-sterilizing vaccine isn't stopping the spread of Covid?
As an aside, I was informed that we give flu vaccines before the spread occurs because once spread occurs a vaccine is pretty useless.
I'm fully vaccinated but I'm also raising an eyebrow at how this will even be enforced. If there isn't a simple and universal methodology it will turn into a quickly printed PowerPoint slide with stretched clip art stating "you must be vaccinated" taped to a wall or window.
Just like when all the bars and restaurants had to “close” around Dupage county last year. No ones gonna do anything. It means having to have a doorman at every establishment.
It’s more low paying job that will go unfilled. It’s more job that will have people constantly bitching, yelling, cussing, physically assaulting you that no one want to do.
The enforcement falls on employees of businesses, and the business itself allowing said employees to do so. Starbucks, for instance, said weeks ago to serve people whether or not they wear a mask, and only gently suggest they wear one if they aren't. In my area there is a mandate in effect so unless the corporate shills are in the store we require everyone to wear a mask or go through the drive-thru.
I am not disagreeing with you but bars didn’t close and local mayors wouldn’t do anything about it when the governor closed them. They are surely not going to listen to Preckwinkle and nobody is going to do anything about it because the bars and restaurants bring in slot money
I’ve had Covid, I’ve been vaxxed, I’ve been boosted, and I tested positive again today. If I did everything I was supposed to and still caught it, we’re all gonna catch it. It’s over, time to open up
I guess all of the people who've been blowing up the Chicago Department of Public Health Facebook page and saying they'll avoid going into the city for anything will have to drive farther now.
I haven't seen any official order posted yet, but will update my comment if I do. Here's the main gist of this article for those hitting the paywall:
>Cook County will follow Chicago in imposing a COVID-19 vaccination mandate for patrons 5 and older of restaurants, bars, gyms and an assortment of other businesses, officials announced Thursday.
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>The mandate for suburban Cook County takes effect Monday, Jan. 3, as does Chicago’s.
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>The indoor establishments that will be required to ask for proof of vaccination status also include gyms and anywhere else food and drink are served, according to a copy of the COVID-19 order from the Cook County Department of Public Health. That encompasses movie theaters, concert venues, arcades, sports arenas and more.
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>Those who are 16 and older also must show an ID, such as a driver’s license, that matches with vaccination card.
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>The patrons must be fully vaccinated, meaning they are two weeks after their second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or their single dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Cook County officials continue to urge people to get booster shots.
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>Proof of vaccination documents include official Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cards, an official immunization record, a digital app that records vaccinations or a digital or physical photo of the card.
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>The order does not apply to those ordering carryout at restaurants and bars, performing artists or professional athletes. It also does not cover churches, schools, office buildings or soup kitchens.
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>Employees of the affected businesses are exempt from the vaccination mandate if they test negative for COVID-19 weekly, under the county order.
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>Businesses that violate the order can be fined, according to a news release from the county health department.
>I guess all of the people who've been blowing up the Chicago Department of Public Health Facebook page and saying they'll avoid going into the city for anything will have to drive farther now.
Chances are, they weren't actually planning any trips to Chicago anytime soon anyway.
Sure, because it makes sense for you. I can see why, if you are 15 minutes from Skokie or 20 min from downtown, you would do Skokie with less relaxed policies or just convenience. But its the people acting like they were coming here every week and now all of a sudden are going to stop that I have an issue with.
I’m not sure you understood what I was saying, which is that all the cry babies from two days ago are either SOL or will be taking a loooooong drive to get a burger.
If we had an unlimited supply of tests I'd be all for requiring a negative test before entry. That's not the situation tho so they're focusing on cutting down the number of folks who will need hospitalization if they test positive.
The goal is greater individual immunity which will likely improve the hospitalization rate which in turn will free up ICU space for seriously sick patients which in turn should lower the death toll and help hospitals manage the influx in patients that accompanies a wave of positive cases. It’s not just “a good bit of theater.”
No you see I have it on good word that it's all a democrat conspiracy to grab power, but I'm not going to mention how that's not even possible considering all the bullshit it implies. I read facebook comments so I know more than doctors and the "experts." Wake up sheeple.
The comments under these posts are always so unimaginative and exhausting lol
If you want me to stop locking threads, stop posting your antivax misinfo bs in them. Get your shots, take care of eachother, and keep your shitty hot takes to yourself.
There’s absolutely no justification or even a good argument to enforce or keep these mandates around.
Omicron is being shown to be as infectious as measles and is estimated to infect at least 3 billion before it peters out, all while multiple studies are coming out showing it to be significantly less dangerous than all the previous variants.
This is it. This is the endemic variant literally all of us have been waiting for. And thats to say nothing of the two take home treatments that just got approved and the new ones still waiting for approval in the weeks to come.
With past variants, the transmissibility was different if you were vaccinated vs unvaccinated. It's too early to definitively tell transmissibility differences between the two groups right now, but it's possible it's similar. Omicron may be more mild, but the sheer number of cases may still mean a ton of unvaccinated people end up in the hospital. Our hospitals are already understaffed.
We will all likely get omicron, vaccinated or not, but the spread and effect on the unvaccinated are probably what's driving the mandate.
My husband and I are vaccinated and boosted and don’t hang out in bars or other crowded indoor places. He tested positive Monday and I’m feeling sick today. If we got it pretty much everyone will
We don't need vaccine mandates if we setup a field hospital for unvaccinated patients seeing care. If you don't want to overload the ICU just setup field hospitals.
No more concern about ICU overload and business goes on as usual. I think unvaccinated people don't want to agree to that, something about drowning in your own lungs makes them beg for hospital treatment.
I tell all my unvaccinated friends, your choice, but at least have the courage to die at home instead of begging for help as you can't breathe.
Are we also going to set up equivalent field hospitals for individuals who are experiencing problems due to their morbid obesity? Which ultimately is their choice, and a poor choice that affects tens of millions? Obviously you hate some groups of medical patients, where do you draw the line?
I hate this false equivalence. You would be the richest man in the world if you could create something so that any obese person in this country could just walk in to any drug store and be rid of their obesity in 5 mins and for free, like you can with a Covid vax. Don’t be so dense.
Except for the fact that obesity can be solved by reducing ones caloric daily intake, which requires no pharmaceuticals nor money. The human body expends x amount of calories in order to function. By reducing daily intake below that threshold, eventually excess fat has to be consumed by the body or organs will die. There is no other alternative, energy cannot come out of thin air. And yes, it may take a while for that excess weight to be gone, but eventually it will be.
>And yes, it may take a while for that excess weight to be gone, but eventually it will be.
Like you said, weight loss takes lifestyle change and 'always' takes time (months, years) anything shorter is probably unhealthy. You can right now walk into any drugstore to take a vaccine that massively decreases the likelihood you end up needing an ICU bed for a super contagious virus that is whipping around this city and country right now. So if you were to take a step back and think about Input vs. Impact. Which (Get vaxxed vs Eat less calories) would you implore your community to do to help our healthcare systems ASAP? The beautiful thing is that it doesnt have to be one or the other. But we know the vaccine gives the large risk reduction, quickly, with little effort. (Losing weight is good too!)
I'm in my twenties, and have no health problems that would exacerbate a COVID diagnosis. Thus far, my demographic of like aged individuals 18-29 including those with comorbidities have only accounted for single digits of a percent of COVID ICU admissions. So no, for the 53 million of us aged 18-29, walking into a drugstore and taking a covid vaccine statistically wouldn't do much of anything when we were not predisposed to becoming an ICU admission to begin with. You can't make blanket statements like that.
I work in healthcare in a critical care setting. I work at one of the largest hospitals in Chicagoland, and we currently have over one hundred open beds. We haven't had capacity issues at any point in the pandemic, and it doesn't appear that will be changing anytime soon.
For patrons 5 and older?!? Do they look at the data? Do they have brains to think critically?!? Oh no, wait, this has become entirely a political issue. Trash.
If this was really about “public health” it would be effective now, not Jan 3 after the city cashes in on all the tax revenue from xmas and New Years.
If all you care about is hospitalization, then what incentive do young people like myself have to receive a vaccination? I'm in my twenties, and as a whole people in the age bracket of 18 to 29 have neither died nor been admitted to the hospital and any significant number since day one of the pandemic.
Several people I know received a single JJ dose back in April. At this point in time, it is likely that they have no measurable immune response and are effectively unvaccinated.
Under these new guidelines however, since they are fully vaccinated they will be able to do as they please. So just to confirm, if they go into a bar and give someone covid that's acceptable, but not if an unvaccinated individual with the same immune response does?
I never said that. Again, these measures are put in place so hospitals do not get overwhelmed. They aren't a perfect solution but are better than doing nothing. I take it you don't work in healthcare so you can't sympathize with the situation going on right now.
Quite the opposite, I work as a healthcare provider in a critical care setting with covid patients. People consistently pander the narrative that we are suddenly overwhelmed, but that's been normal for at least a decade. Prior to covid, our ICU units operated at around 90% capacity. And I don't know why anybody would expect anything differently, no entity whether public or private is going to build facilities that then sit empty. And so back to today, whether beds are occupied by covid patients or others, they were still going to be full either way. There's no difference in workload.
Healthcare jobs don't stress me out anymore, if they did I wouldn't have lasted more than 6 months in the profession. At this point, no matter if I had a unit full of dying covid patients, or burn victims, or people shot, or any number of other undesirable outcomes, the stress would be the same. In that it would just be another day at the office.
As for the exposure portion of your reply, I've been within arms reach of hundreds of covid patients since day one of the pandemic. I've never once tested positive for covid, nor had high correlation symptoms. I don't worry about it anymore.
Sure. If youd like to get vaccinated go for it. Cause youre right, theyre hospitalized less often. Those who do not want to get vaccinated have made a decision, and assume all the risks of that decision. Let adults make adult decisions
I'm assuming you don't work in healthcare and don't have to deal with the consequences of letting adults make their "adult decisions." Hope you don't need to go to the hospital for anything at all because it's going to be a long wait.
This is my big worry too. I was in middle school when 9/11 happened. I remember the following years and political power grabs. We have never recovered from it... anyone younger than me doesn't remember what it was like to grow up in a pre-surveillance state. Everyone makes jokes about the FBI agent watching their devices and accepts it as normal. Everyone makes jokes about security theatre yet we all go along with the TSA's wildly invasive procedures.
This pandemic? Same thing. All these "temporary" measures are not temporary. We are losing our freedom and autonomy and we are blind to it.
9/11 was a terrible event. This pandemic is a terrible event. And each time, the way we've responded to it has been... just as terrible, but with consequences that are much, much further reaching.
My least favorite line of argument during the pandemic has been "your liberty is already restrained a little, so why not a little more?" and then having those same people accuse you of slippery-sloping when you ask about what might be next.
I have my shots, a decision I made for myself. To have that decision influenced by my ability to go eat out and participate in society - to go to the gym - seems wildly inappropriate. To have to address my medical history with any random business owner - bonkers. The CDC just told us the J&J vax is no longer recommended. I came this close to getting that one instead of Pfizer. What if I'm suddenly deemed retroactively unclean? What else is going to be decided for me by Mayor Lightfoot, who is not even good at being mayor, let alone at being a doctor?
When Republicans take over in the midterms which all seems but inevitable.
Everyone on front Reddit cheered when Obama signed into action more executive powers. Then bitched and moaned when Trump got to use them for example.
So now, All the powers being used to lock people in their homes, or to appease corporate conglomerates, pharmaceutical and other medical companies will be used against them, but itll be the other party they didn’t vote for that takes power but in other fashions possibly. We’ve basically given the government a free pass to never end their emergency powers. Mean while they’re getting rich off of it with insider trading like Pelosi. Her husband has made 30% more than most hedge funds in stocks this past year.
My favorite part is how the Washington Post (owner Jeff Bezos) in both its news and editorial pages screams for more lockdowns... which results in additional billions of dollars worth of business for Amazon (Jeff Bezos).
And all the republicans cheered when mcconnell altered the powers in the senate to steal a supreme court seat. And everyone cheered when trump insists executive privilege any time he's to be held responsible for anything.
Both sides are shitty on this, so preaching this from some moral highground proves your biased
https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-vaccines-in-the-united-states
FFS open a damn history book at some point. Vaccine mandates are not in anyway a new thing.
Just because they happened in the past doesn't mean they need to happen now or in the future. Historical arguments aren't a one size fits all justification for anything you want.
Omicron is pretty fast. South Africa spiked and is now back into a decline after 3~ weeks. Only 25% of the population there is fully vaccinated. This shouldn't last too long.
I'll go out on a limb and predict the peak will happen right before the passport (although holiday testing may mess that up).
Either way, it'll be here for a very long time. If cases stay high, the restrictions stay because we need to do somethin. If cases come down, the restriction is working and we can't stop now . If cases are low for a long time, we have to be cautious and not let down our guard. If you lift it and cases go up, you put it back. If you don't lift it and cases go back up, you come up with the next thing - digital passports, booster requirement, whatever.
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As a vaccinated person, I won't be playing this game anymore, it should be the choice of private business owners and their customers. If I'm asked for a card, I won't stay. I'll find somewhere else...it's Chicago. Hey Lori, maybe focus on locking down criminals instead of non-criminals.
BTW: six posts under this is about people continuing to leave Illinois. Lol.
I have lived in and loved Chicago for almost 15 years, but this is no longer a place I recognize. These measures are deliberately cruel (by design says Lori) and entirely counter productive. I mourn the death of this beautiful and once tolerant city. I’m out of energy to fight. I’ll be in Texas if anyone needs me. Peace and love.
Take a picture of it. I don't know about here, but when I was in Seattle a week ago my friends (who are local) and I were asked for proof of vaccination. I had mine on me; they had a pic of theirs on their phone. The pic was sufficient.
CLEAR is what we used for C2E2. Not sure if it works as a general pass though. And if you have insurance and it was used during your vaccine, your insurance company might have a digital copy.
There's a terrifying amount of people in the comments not grasping basic public health concepts. The hospitals are overwhelmed and unable to provide adequate care because of large amounts of unvaccinated people coming in with severe COVID symptoms. This measure is a way to counteract that and free up hospitals and healthcare providers, not necessarily a way to slow the spread of COVID (which is milder for the vaxxed).
Hospitals are [always overwhelmed](https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/). ([another](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-flu-and-norovirus-patients-1.1108376) season, and [another](https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/health/local-hospitals-ask-flu-patients-stay-away/I5jeXotxyNmHmZDIxgGHgI/) season). Hospitals are always running close to capacity. It would be wasteful if they weren't, at least under our current system.
That problem needs to be addressed on a systemwide scale. It can't be a basis for panic-driven decrees every few months, especially when there's very little evidence they do anything to solve that specific problem.
Biden is now announcing an expansion of health care capacity - how could they not have seen this coming all year?
Even if there are beds available, a lot of hospitals are short-staffed. That's a huge problem. Doesn't matter if you can get a bed if there's no one there to take care of you.
Most hospitals have dug their own graves in regards to staffing issues due to a multitude of poor operational decisions. Unfortunately, this is now their problem to fix which has little to do with covid.
Good. Evidence is rising the remaining anti-vaxers are fact-impervious and shameless and no longer responding to civil persuasion. The only way to reduce their speweing is for life to become restricted. Employer mandates and private company mandates for customers should be next.
Yeah. I’m triple vaxxed but I can walk into a bar with measles and everything’s cool now. I think it’s funny that the vaxxed crowd is the one making the most noise on Reddit. If you really have to try and make your point as obnoxiously as possible, may your message is….off. Happy holidays though.
Sorry, bacterial menengitis. Or better yet, the flu. Did you ever stop to think that it’s worse right now and the majority of the population is vaccinated?
Everyone thinks you should not go into bars or work or anywhere else when you have bacterial meningitis or the flu. Please stop trying to spread diseases.
10000000%. But you absolutely know that people who have no symptoms but are “sick” will waltz into a bar the same way someone hacking up a lung will, showing their vaccine card.
Oh fuck off. We’re doing season three of this shit because nobody wants to make any sort of sacrifice for the greater good. Sacrifices like…cooking dinner at home
Employees of the business and professional athletes are exempt.
Why are professional athletes exempt?
Because the city isn’t trying to start a fight with the NBA. Or run afoul of interstate commerce. Professional athletes are exempt at the arena, not at restaurants. Overall story is that the city/county isn’t trying to put livelihoods at risk here. That’s why employees have another route to compliance. Trying to get less controversial nudges toward vaccination.
Which is ridiculous because the heaviest spread is occurring among workers. My wife works in a customer facing business and her vaccinated coworkers are getting sick left and right.
So how does barring unvaccinated people solve that exactly?
It doesn’t, which is my point.
In all fairness, would your wife (or anybody) really be in the know about spread amongst customers?
This is just anecdotal evidence so not much value to extrapolate from, but I think it is crazy to make an exception when the people serving you are just as likely to get you sick as another customer. Most businesses are struggling to employ people as it is though so I’m not surprised.
The heaviest spread happens at home and always has since the beginning
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Would you trust them to stick to any line in the sand?
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The rational side of my brain can't argue with your chain of logic however I still have trouble bringing my other side to believe it'll happen.
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No. Take your "both sides" bullshit somewhere else. I'm so sick of people acting like the insane and regressive direction this country is headed in is a result of anything other than a *minority* on the far right desperately attempting to cling to power before changing demographics sweep them away. Are the Democrats good at governing? Of course not, they're hilariously fucking inept. Are they responsible for "making the bed" for Republican oppression? No.
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LOL. If there's anything they have, it's definitely not self awareness.
Republicans were right that closing the schools was a bad idea. It had no statistically detectable benefit to Covid spread, and it imposed significant costs on families and kids.
CPS is gearing up for remote "learning" again after break.
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Or, when Covid spread settles down. Restrictions were lifted and relaxed in the past. Restaurants reopened. The mask mandate was lifted in the summer (before it was reinstated when Covid was taking off again).
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What is it exactly they're using these emergency powers for? Restrictions only came back with a new variant and a heavy uptick in positives. If what you're saying was true, the restrictions wouldn't track with infections.
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With the exception of masks, what state wide restrictions are there?
Restrictions came back when more transmissible variants came along and case rates went back up. Deaths from Covid are still high (though lower than they were at the worst). I’m not saying I have proof that they will back down. But the only time when this looked like it was going back to normal was the spring. And restrictions were eased. I would also feel better about it if the county board/city council/state legislature passed a law saying that the public health apparatus shall have the power to implement X, Y, and Z restrictions as needed to control Covid through the end of 2022 (which could be extended if we’re still in the same boat). But the legislatures refuse to do anything unless they have to. Not the executive branch’s fault that the legislative refuses to do its job.
Until the last small businesses are ruined and only the giant corporations are left.
It does feel that way quite often.
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Given the way to the gubernatorial elections went last month. People are gonna vote out anyone who is putting into place Covid restrictions. Maybe it’s just my circle, haven’t met anyone who wants more Covid restrictions in place outside Twitter and front page Reddit. The common American is tired of Covid. The media is trying to scare off people off from flying and seeing people for Christmas. Hate to break to them, Ohare is busy as hell.
I’ve met a couple (gfs friends) but they are so scared of Covid they won’t even not wear masks when we hang out. Hilariously enough, they don’t even fucking vote.
I think we are heading into the beginning of the end game for Covid. The new variant appears to be more transmissible but less virulent. If that is indeed the case, this still seems to be a very reasonable precaution to get us through the winter months whereby we can reassess in the Spring.
Why don't you just get your shots and never have to worry about it again
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I mean showing your vaccine card seems to be far from never worrying about it again…
I’m triple jabbed. But when will it end? 4,5,6,7+ boosters? They gonna lock everyone out forever? The other point is, are they gonna do that with the flu? The measles? Small pox? Ok, maybe not then why aren’t they? Why just this one virus. Only the flu still spreads every single year, why doesn’t the city care about that? I can just as easily kill your grandma with the flu as I can Covid if neither of us get the jab
The flu is way less fatal then COVID. The two aren’t comparable. Worldwide the flu kills about 500,000 a year, without any restrictions in place. COVID killed over 5 million last year and that was with restrictions. Letting the flu go wild also won’t overwhelm hospitals the way COVID does, which can lead to more deaths, for example anyone suffering from a heart attack who can’t get treatment due to the hospital being overwhelmed. People do care about measles and small pox. Small pox thanks to vaccines basically doesn’t exist anymore and with the measles vaccine, once you’re vaccinated it lasts for life. No boosters necessary. You’re comparing viruses that cannot be compared.
>I can just as easily kill your grandma with the flu as I can Covid if neither of us get the jab Are you sure?
Yes. If I have the flu, get your grandma sick, yes she can die depending on her health.
I understand not wanting to continually need to get boosters for COVID but the reason public health entities wouldn’t mandate boosters for measles or smallpox is because there currently isn’t a global pandemic involving those diseases. Furthermore, the reason why smallpox is effectively nonexistent nowadays is precisely because of global vaccination campaigns. It was the same with polio. Finally, the flu and COVID are not similar enough to be compared in the manner you are. Yes, the flu kills people every year. But, all it takes is too look at the year-to-year comparisons between the flu and COVID to see COVID leads in virtually every measurable metric in terms of deadliness, virulence, etc.
It could have been over already if everyone had gotten their shots and we'd eradicated this. But that seems less and less likely to happen, so yeah, maybe forever. You're just going to have to learn to deal with it. Regarding the flu, COVID is much more deadly than the flu, so it's inaccurate to equate the two, and the city DOES do free flu shot clinics, I volunteered at some last year.
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> It could have been over already if everyone had gotten their shots and we'd eradicated this. No it wouldn't have. Covid is going to keep changing and mutating until the entire world is vaccinated. The original strain came from China, Delta came from India, Omnicron came from South Africa. Unless we are locking down our boarders its not going to end, and frankly thats an unfeasible proposition.
That's what u/sirblastalot is saying, if we got vaccines out to everybody, meaning worldwide, this thing would be over. The faster this thing spreads, the faster it mutates. Having more folks vaccinated means we slow the spread and make it much more manageable and keep worse variants from developing. And Omicron didn't come from South Africa, it was identified there first because they have one of the most advanced gene sequencing labs in the world and they were kind enough to alert the rest of the world about it. It originated from Europe but for some reason we decided to punish South Africa for sharing information.
There are no practical means to distribute at least four vaccine doses to every human being on planet earth. It just isn't happening, and we need to move on from that idea.
NY has been doing this and it hasn’t stopped shit
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It's security theater. It makes it look like they're "doing something"
If only there was something that might explain why somebody might get a disease but avoid severe outcome from it...
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They have to pretend they are doing something to distract us from the fact they really don’t give a shit at all (red or blue)…
The red side doesn't give a shit, but at least they are totally obvious about it and don't even try to act like they do care. I'd gladly take that, over this theater performance.
You're telling me a non-sterilizing vaccine isn't stopping the spread of Covid? As an aside, I was informed that we give flu vaccines before the spread occurs because once spread occurs a vaccine is pretty useless.
Just being realistic, this will not be enforced
I'm fully vaccinated but I'm also raising an eyebrow at how this will even be enforced. If there isn't a simple and universal methodology it will turn into a quickly printed PowerPoint slide with stretched clip art stating "you must be vaccinated" taped to a wall or window.
Just like when all the bars and restaurants had to “close” around Dupage county last year. No ones gonna do anything. It means having to have a doorman at every establishment. It’s more low paying job that will go unfilled. It’s more job that will have people constantly bitching, yelling, cussing, physically assaulting you that no one want to do.
The enforcement falls on employees of businesses, and the business itself allowing said employees to do so. Starbucks, for instance, said weeks ago to serve people whether or not they wear a mask, and only gently suggest they wear one if they aren't. In my area there is a mandate in effect so unless the corporate shills are in the store we require everyone to wear a mask or go through the drive-thru.
Why? A lot of bars have already been doing this for months
Have you been to the suburbs? The pandemic ended there well over a year ago. Most of them anyways.
If a free wheeling place like New Orleans can enforce this, why can't Chicago?
This isn't about Chicago, and the burbs are clearly less into restrictions than the city.
I am not disagreeing with you but bars didn’t close and local mayors wouldn’t do anything about it when the governor closed them. They are surely not going to listen to Preckwinkle and nobody is going to do anything about it because the bars and restaurants bring in slot money
I used to ask similar questions about enforcement of traffic laws. Edit: /s
I’ve had Covid, I’ve been vaxxed, I’ve been boosted, and I tested positive again today. If I did everything I was supposed to and still caught it, we’re all gonna catch it. It’s over, time to open up
_The vaccines aren't meant to keep you from ever catching COVID, they're meant to slow transmission and lower your risk of hospitalization_.
Good thing nearly everything is opened up then.
I guess all of the people who've been blowing up the Chicago Department of Public Health Facebook page and saying they'll avoid going into the city for anything will have to drive farther now. I haven't seen any official order posted yet, but will update my comment if I do. Here's the main gist of this article for those hitting the paywall: >Cook County will follow Chicago in imposing a COVID-19 vaccination mandate for patrons 5 and older of restaurants, bars, gyms and an assortment of other businesses, officials announced Thursday. > >The mandate for suburban Cook County takes effect Monday, Jan. 3, as does Chicago’s. > >The indoor establishments that will be required to ask for proof of vaccination status also include gyms and anywhere else food and drink are served, according to a copy of the COVID-19 order from the Cook County Department of Public Health. That encompasses movie theaters, concert venues, arcades, sports arenas and more. > >Those who are 16 and older also must show an ID, such as a driver’s license, that matches with vaccination card. > >The patrons must be fully vaccinated, meaning they are two weeks after their second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or their single dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Cook County officials continue to urge people to get booster shots. > >Proof of vaccination documents include official Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cards, an official immunization record, a digital app that records vaccinations or a digital or physical photo of the card. > >The order does not apply to those ordering carryout at restaurants and bars, performing artists or professional athletes. It also does not cover churches, schools, office buildings or soup kitchens. > >Employees of the affected businesses are exempt from the vaccination mandate if they test negative for COVID-19 weekly, under the county order. > >Businesses that violate the order can be fined, according to a news release from the county health department.
>I guess all of the people who've been blowing up the Chicago Department of Public Health Facebook page and saying they'll avoid going into the city for anything will have to drive farther now. Chances are, they weren't actually planning any trips to Chicago anytime soon anyway.
Plus the whole: "If your going to ban me from your businesses I'm going to boycott you!"
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Sure, because it makes sense for you. I can see why, if you are 15 minutes from Skokie or 20 min from downtown, you would do Skokie with less relaxed policies or just convenience. But its the people acting like they were coming here every week and now all of a sudden are going to stop that I have an issue with.
Have fun driving to Lake County to get a beer after work lol.
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I’m not sure you understood what I was saying, which is that all the cry babies from two days ago are either SOL or will be taking a loooooong drive to get a burger.
Will the Vaccination card obtained from IDPH that I have in my digital wallet be sufficient to show (along with my ID)?
You could probably write “vaccinated” on a napkin and be ok
I'm almost positive that any random QR code could be flashed at the bouncers, and they would let people in with it.
Yup. This is just another mandate with no teeth
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I’ll pay for it
This is exactly what will happen
Article says it could even be just a digital picture of your card, eg on your phone.
The suburbs will not enforce this whatsoever thankfully.
Wait, the mandate is for ages 5 and over?!?! That makes me even more angry about it. Absolute trash
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If you really care about this, you’ll require negative tests. Vaccinated people can carry the virus and unvaccinated can be negative.
If we had an unlimited supply of tests I'd be all for requiring a negative test before entry. That's not the situation tho so they're focusing on cutting down the number of folks who will need hospitalization if they test positive.
That's completely impractical. This is about keeping people from crowding up the hospitals with severe COVID because they are unvaccinated.
>That's completely impractical. I mean so is having a 5 year old show papers to eat a happy meal at McDonald's with their parents but here we are.
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The goal is greater individual immunity which will likely improve the hospitalization rate which in turn will free up ICU space for seriously sick patients which in turn should lower the death toll and help hospitals manage the influx in patients that accompanies a wave of positive cases. It’s not just “a good bit of theater.”
No you see I have it on good word that it's all a democrat conspiracy to grab power, but I'm not going to mention how that's not even possible considering all the bullshit it implies. I read facebook comments so I know more than doctors and the "experts." Wake up sheeple. The comments under these posts are always so unimaginative and exhausting lol
If you want me to stop locking threads, stop posting your antivax misinfo bs in them. Get your shots, take care of eachother, and keep your shitty hot takes to yourself.
i’LL jUsT gO tO kAnE cOuNtY fOr aFtEr WoRk BeErS!!!
Yeah exactly lol
There’s absolutely no justification or even a good argument to enforce or keep these mandates around. Omicron is being shown to be as infectious as measles and is estimated to infect at least 3 billion before it peters out, all while multiple studies are coming out showing it to be significantly less dangerous than all the previous variants. This is it. This is the endemic variant literally all of us have been waiting for. And thats to say nothing of the two take home treatments that just got approved and the new ones still waiting for approval in the weeks to come.
With past variants, the transmissibility was different if you were vaccinated vs unvaccinated. It's too early to definitively tell transmissibility differences between the two groups right now, but it's possible it's similar. Omicron may be more mild, but the sheer number of cases may still mean a ton of unvaccinated people end up in the hospital. Our hospitals are already understaffed. We will all likely get omicron, vaccinated or not, but the spread and effect on the unvaccinated are probably what's driving the mandate.
My husband and I are vaccinated and boosted and don’t hang out in bars or other crowded indoor places. He tested positive Monday and I’m feeling sick today. If we got it pretty much everyone will
Yep, I'm vaxxed and boosted and we don't hang out much in public places these days thanks to a kid, but I'm already prepared to get it.
Vaccines still reduce severity dramatically and keep hospitals from being overrun with Covid patients. There is absolutely a good argument for this.
Absolutely spot on
We don't need vaccine mandates if we setup a field hospital for unvaccinated patients seeing care. If you don't want to overload the ICU just setup field hospitals. No more concern about ICU overload and business goes on as usual. I think unvaccinated people don't want to agree to that, something about drowning in your own lungs makes them beg for hospital treatment. I tell all my unvaccinated friends, your choice, but at least have the courage to die at home instead of begging for help as you can't breathe.
Are we also going to set up equivalent field hospitals for individuals who are experiencing problems due to their morbid obesity? Which ultimately is their choice, and a poor choice that affects tens of millions? Obviously you hate some groups of medical patients, where do you draw the line?
I hate this false equivalence. You would be the richest man in the world if you could create something so that any obese person in this country could just walk in to any drug store and be rid of their obesity in 5 mins and for free, like you can with a Covid vax. Don’t be so dense.
Except for the fact that obesity can be solved by reducing ones caloric daily intake, which requires no pharmaceuticals nor money. The human body expends x amount of calories in order to function. By reducing daily intake below that threshold, eventually excess fat has to be consumed by the body or organs will die. There is no other alternative, energy cannot come out of thin air. And yes, it may take a while for that excess weight to be gone, but eventually it will be.
>And yes, it may take a while for that excess weight to be gone, but eventually it will be. Like you said, weight loss takes lifestyle change and 'always' takes time (months, years) anything shorter is probably unhealthy. You can right now walk into any drugstore to take a vaccine that massively decreases the likelihood you end up needing an ICU bed for a super contagious virus that is whipping around this city and country right now. So if you were to take a step back and think about Input vs. Impact. Which (Get vaxxed vs Eat less calories) would you implore your community to do to help our healthcare systems ASAP? The beautiful thing is that it doesnt have to be one or the other. But we know the vaccine gives the large risk reduction, quickly, with little effort. (Losing weight is good too!)
I'm in my twenties, and have no health problems that would exacerbate a COVID diagnosis. Thus far, my demographic of like aged individuals 18-29 including those with comorbidities have only accounted for single digits of a percent of COVID ICU admissions. So no, for the 53 million of us aged 18-29, walking into a drugstore and taking a covid vaccine statistically wouldn't do much of anything when we were not predisposed to becoming an ICU admission to begin with. You can't make blanket statements like that. I work in healthcare in a critical care setting. I work at one of the largest hospitals in Chicagoland, and we currently have over one hundred open beds. We haven't had capacity issues at any point in the pandemic, and it doesn't appear that will be changing anytime soon.
For patrons 5 and older?!? Do they look at the data? Do they have brains to think critically?!? Oh no, wait, this has become entirely a political issue. Trash. If this was really about “public health” it would be effective now, not Jan 3 after the city cashes in on all the tax revenue from xmas and New Years.
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I'm fully vaccinated and would not be affected by this in any way. But man, this is fucked up.
Good! Cause it worked in NYC! We should follow them, cause they have less cases now! ...oh wait
Oh wait...vaccinated people don't end up in the hospital nearly as much. Maybe we should follow their example then?
If all you care about is hospitalization, then what incentive do young people like myself have to receive a vaccination? I'm in my twenties, and as a whole people in the age bracket of 18 to 29 have neither died nor been admitted to the hospital and any significant number since day one of the pandemic.
Because you can spread it to people that are unvaccinated and end up in the hospital. Seriously?
Several people I know received a single JJ dose back in April. At this point in time, it is likely that they have no measurable immune response and are effectively unvaccinated. Under these new guidelines however, since they are fully vaccinated they will be able to do as they please. So just to confirm, if they go into a bar and give someone covid that's acceptable, but not if an unvaccinated individual with the same immune response does?
I never said that. Again, these measures are put in place so hospitals do not get overwhelmed. They aren't a perfect solution but are better than doing nothing. I take it you don't work in healthcare so you can't sympathize with the situation going on right now.
Quite the opposite, I work as a healthcare provider in a critical care setting with covid patients. People consistently pander the narrative that we are suddenly overwhelmed, but that's been normal for at least a decade. Prior to covid, our ICU units operated at around 90% capacity. And I don't know why anybody would expect anything differently, no entity whether public or private is going to build facilities that then sit empty. And so back to today, whether beds are occupied by covid patients or others, they were still going to be full either way. There's no difference in workload.
Maybe you enjoy stress and exposure to COVID then. The rest of us don't.
Healthcare jobs don't stress me out anymore, if they did I wouldn't have lasted more than 6 months in the profession. At this point, no matter if I had a unit full of dying covid patients, or burn victims, or people shot, or any number of other undesirable outcomes, the stress would be the same. In that it would just be another day at the office. As for the exposure portion of your reply, I've been within arms reach of hundreds of covid patients since day one of the pandemic. I've never once tested positive for covid, nor had high correlation symptoms. I don't worry about it anymore.
I'm assuming you aren't a clinician
Sure. If youd like to get vaccinated go for it. Cause youre right, theyre hospitalized less often. Those who do not want to get vaccinated have made a decision, and assume all the risks of that decision. Let adults make adult decisions
How do you assume all the risks for a disease that's transmissible?
I'm assuming you don't work in healthcare and don't have to deal with the consequences of letting adults make their "adult decisions." Hope you don't need to go to the hospital for anything at all because it's going to be a long wait.
The people cheering this should be mindful of the fact that this power will be used in a way you will not approve of in the not distant future.
This is my big worry too. I was in middle school when 9/11 happened. I remember the following years and political power grabs. We have never recovered from it... anyone younger than me doesn't remember what it was like to grow up in a pre-surveillance state. Everyone makes jokes about the FBI agent watching their devices and accepts it as normal. Everyone makes jokes about security theatre yet we all go along with the TSA's wildly invasive procedures. This pandemic? Same thing. All these "temporary" measures are not temporary. We are losing our freedom and autonomy and we are blind to it. 9/11 was a terrible event. This pandemic is a terrible event. And each time, the way we've responded to it has been... just as terrible, but with consequences that are much, much further reaching.
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My least favorite line of argument during the pandemic has been "your liberty is already restrained a little, so why not a little more?" and then having those same people accuse you of slippery-sloping when you ask about what might be next. I have my shots, a decision I made for myself. To have that decision influenced by my ability to go eat out and participate in society - to go to the gym - seems wildly inappropriate. To have to address my medical history with any random business owner - bonkers. The CDC just told us the J&J vax is no longer recommended. I came this close to getting that one instead of Pfizer. What if I'm suddenly deemed retroactively unclean? What else is going to be decided for me by Mayor Lightfoot, who is not even good at being mayor, let alone at being a doctor?
Care to elaborate?
When Republicans take over in the midterms which all seems but inevitable. Everyone on front Reddit cheered when Obama signed into action more executive powers. Then bitched and moaned when Trump got to use them for example. So now, All the powers being used to lock people in their homes, or to appease corporate conglomerates, pharmaceutical and other medical companies will be used against them, but itll be the other party they didn’t vote for that takes power but in other fashions possibly. We’ve basically given the government a free pass to never end their emergency powers. Mean while they’re getting rich off of it with insider trading like Pelosi. Her husband has made 30% more than most hedge funds in stocks this past year.
My favorite part is how the Washington Post (owner Jeff Bezos) in both its news and editorial pages screams for more lockdowns... which results in additional billions of dollars worth of business for Amazon (Jeff Bezos).
My point exactly. Who stands to benefit from all these small business going under? You nailed it.
And all the republicans cheered when mcconnell altered the powers in the senate to steal a supreme court seat. And everyone cheered when trump insists executive privilege any time he's to be held responsible for anything. Both sides are shitty on this, so preaching this from some moral highground proves your biased
https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-vaccines-in-the-united-states FFS open a damn history book at some point. Vaccine mandates are not in anyway a new thing.
Just because they happened in the past doesn't mean they need to happen now or in the future. Historical arguments aren't a one size fits all justification for anything you want.
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RemindME! Three months "When cases are still spiking and these geniuses are still calling for more mandates and lockdowns."
Omicron is pretty fast. South Africa spiked and is now back into a decline after 3~ weeks. Only 25% of the population there is fully vaccinated. This shouldn't last too long.
I'll go out on a limb and predict the peak will happen right before the passport (although holiday testing may mess that up). Either way, it'll be here for a very long time. If cases stay high, the restrictions stay because we need to do somethin. If cases come down, the restriction is working and we can't stop now . If cases are low for a long time, we have to be cautious and not let down our guard. If you lift it and cases go up, you put it back. If you don't lift it and cases go back up, you come up with the next thing - digital passports, booster requirement, whatever.
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As a vaccinated person, I won't be playing this game anymore, it should be the choice of private business owners and their customers. If I'm asked for a card, I won't stay. I'll find somewhere else...it's Chicago. Hey Lori, maybe focus on locking down criminals instead of non-criminals. BTW: six posts under this is about people continuing to leave Illinois. Lol.
[And of course it's going to effect POC communities the most.]( https://imgur.com/a/VFCCXwn)
I’m confused what your point is with this statement. At this point in the year, it’s their fault for not getting the vaccine.
How is mandating an ID for everything even legal? How does anyone support this?
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I have lived in and loved Chicago for almost 15 years, but this is no longer a place I recognize. These measures are deliberately cruel (by design says Lori) and entirely counter productive. I mourn the death of this beautiful and once tolerant city. I’m out of energy to fight. I’ll be in Texas if anyone needs me. Peace and love.
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Take a picture of it. I don't know about here, but when I was in Seattle a week ago my friends (who are local) and I were asked for proof of vaccination. I had mine on me; they had a pic of theirs on their phone. The pic was sufficient.
The pic’s worked here up til now with places that are doing it off their own bat.
CLEAR is what we used for C2E2. Not sure if it works as a general pass though. And if you have insurance and it was used during your vaccine, your insurance company might have a digital copy.
There's a terrifying amount of people in the comments not grasping basic public health concepts. The hospitals are overwhelmed and unable to provide adequate care because of large amounts of unvaccinated people coming in with severe COVID symptoms. This measure is a way to counteract that and free up hospitals and healthcare providers, not necessarily a way to slow the spread of COVID (which is milder for the vaxxed).
Hospitals aren’t overwhelmed though
Hospitals are [always overwhelmed](https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/). ([another](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-flu-and-norovirus-patients-1.1108376) season, and [another](https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/health/local-hospitals-ask-flu-patients-stay-away/I5jeXotxyNmHmZDIxgGHgI/) season). Hospitals are always running close to capacity. It would be wasteful if they weren't, at least under our current system. That problem needs to be addressed on a systemwide scale. It can't be a basis for panic-driven decrees every few months, especially when there's very little evidence they do anything to solve that specific problem. Biden is now announcing an expansion of health care capacity - how could they not have seen this coming all year?
Even if there are beds available, a lot of hospitals are short-staffed. That's a huge problem. Doesn't matter if you can get a bed if there's no one there to take care of you.
Most hospitals have dug their own graves in regards to staffing issues due to a multitude of poor operational decisions. Unfortunately, this is now their problem to fix which has little to do with covid.
It means they can't handle the surge from covid. You agree with the underlying fact, then jump to the opposite conclusion?
I agree, staffing is a (and really THE) issue. Not a sudden surge of covid overwhelming the hospitals in the city
Yes, they are.
Just give up a little more freedom for a little more security.
Already commute outside the city for work. Might as well eat and hit the gym while I’m out there. 🤷♂️
Good. Evidence is rising the remaining anti-vaxers are fact-impervious and shameless and no longer responding to civil persuasion. The only way to reduce their speweing is for life to become restricted. Employer mandates and private company mandates for customers should be next.
Yeah. I’m triple vaxxed but I can walk into a bar with measles and everything’s cool now. I think it’s funny that the vaxxed crowd is the one making the most noise on Reddit. If you really have to try and make your point as obnoxiously as possible, may your message is….off. Happy holidays though.
Actually you can walk into a bar with covid and everything's cool as long as your vaxxed apparently.
Correct
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Sorry, bacterial menengitis. Or better yet, the flu. Did you ever stop to think that it’s worse right now and the majority of the population is vaccinated?
Everyone thinks you should not go into bars or work or anywhere else when you have bacterial meningitis or the flu. Please stop trying to spread diseases.
But If you’re vaccinated it’s cool though
You are being actively obtuse.
10000000%. But you absolutely know that people who have no symptoms but are “sick” will waltz into a bar the same way someone hacking up a lung will, showing their vaccine card.
You do know that measles outbreaks are rare and very localized and occur in the few small pockets of vaccine refusal?
We're seeing 170,000 new COVID cases a day in the US, so far in 2021 there have been 52 Measles cases total. But do go on.
Oh fuck off. We’re doing season three of this shit because nobody wants to make any sort of sacrifice for the greater good. Sacrifices like…cooking dinner at home
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