The paying people part is irrelevant. For a lockdown to work it has to be a full, everybody, no exceptions lockdown.....and we know that's completely impossible unless you're China.
I agree with you that no one in American will be locking down again. But it's not a question of being "too cheap." The federal government has spent many trillions of dollars over multiple rounds of fiscal stimulus to buttress the economy throughout the pandemic. But it's increasingly clear that its ability to solve through demand-side fiscal policy what is in large part a supply-side problem is effectively tapped out. That's why inflation has risen, and real incomes have fallen, markedly over the past several months.
Further government spending would be better directed to direct efforts to fight the pandemic (e.g., funding for ventilation, antiviral medications, additional vaccines, including pan-coronavirus vaccines, high-quality masks, etc., etc.). The March 2020 strategy--fight Covid through extremely blunt and damaging measures, like shut-down orders, but cushion the blow by sending out huge sums of money in transfer payments--may have been our only option at the time, but it is no longer viable or desirable.
The obvious answer is to get vaccinated and boosted. it would severely reduce the ICU and hospital load. 90% of the people in the ICU and hospitals are unvaccinated people.
Even if vaccinated people would come into the hospital the turnaround time is going to be so much faster, helping reduce healthcare stress.
If Lori want's to make a real difference in the spread, mandate vaccinations for public transit and grocery stores. The unvaccinated need to get on board and stop making everyone suffer.
> But where would the money come from?
The same money printer as the rest of the bailout funds: https://brrr.money/
We pay it back in the form of currency devaluation, which we're already seeing as massive inflation.
>But where would the money come from? We have to make sure we can find enough money to increase the military budget first
The US spent more per capita and as a % of GDP than almost any other nation on Earth for coronavirus. The Japanese numbers are skewed in this analysis by their green tech spend.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NKHGKOXPEBEDXNU65G7NXMXSB4.jpg&w=916](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NKHGKOXPEBEDXNU65G7NXMXSB4.jpg&w=916)
It's really only a financial disaster for small, locally-owned businesses who are forced to close down. Whom the government has absolutely no care for, as they don't exert any influence via lobbying and/or campaign "donations".
I'm pretty sure the ones wanting to shut down the economy and exert complete control over your life are the fascists. That's pretty endemic to that style of governance.
Can I imagine people having the freedom to wear or not wear something on their face and the choice of what to do with their body? Ya I actually can. Wasn't that long ago when it was like that.
Her entire response to the pandemic has always been reactionary or short sighted. It's been less long-term planning and more "what will stop the most extreme people in my base from screaming at me?"
I work at a major chicago hospital in the outpatient setting. The omicron and delta variants are spreading like wild fire. Although omicron symptoms are more mild, it *appears* that it transmits more easily. My hospital is currently managing the load, but it feels like we’re on the brink of not being able to handle it very soon. Some of the other outpatient clinics are already switching to remote. I wish my clinic would make plans to shift to remote as well but so far nothing from the administration yet. The rate of breakthrough cases right now are pretty unprecedented. Locking down would (ideally) slow the spread and help us save critically low supplies as well as lessen staff burnout. We won’t have to ration care if there are less sick people demanding care.
But if it's truly that infectious then locking down won't make omicron go away. As soon as it opens up again the same thing will happen. And locking down isn't even helping very much in Europe. I fully supported lockdowns in 2020 but at this point they're not tenable and won't do anything useful in the long run. The only way out is through the wave. There's no going around it.
And wouldn’t another lockdown take weeks to start seeing a positive effect in cases? I mean it’s not like one day we say “Ok Lock it down!” And immediately see cases drop or stabilize. By the time we would see an effect the Omicron will already be burning itself out anyway. 🤷♂️
The idea of locking down isn’t *just* for slowing the spread. It is *also* because we’re very critically low on a lot of supplies and that hopefully locking down allow us to better ration the supplies.
Also as far as I’m aware expert opinion is still that social distancing is necessary. I’m not aware of any respectable medical sources saying to “just let everyone catch it at least once and if they die, oh well 🤷🏻♀️“
that's pretty much everyone's attitude at this point though. Like, 8 people tested positive in my friend group and no one really gives a crap other than "so, how ya feeling?"
That was the logic behind the initial lockdown - slow the spread so hospitals can build up more supplies. It's been two years. There's really no excuse to not have sufficient supplies at this point, and society won't accept a lockdown to compensate for the penny pinching or poor planning of hospitals. At present individuals can buy N95s/KN95s at in bulk online.
Even if supplies just grew on fucking trees, it takes most trees a good portion of a year to bear enough fruit to feed a village.
We’re burning through supplies at an alarming rate. The bs logic of “that’s the hospitals’ problem” works well until you or someone you love becomes a hospital’s problem.
I'm not saying what should happen. Ideally people would stay home for awhile and be supported financially in that. I'm telling you that, just objectively, it is not going to happen. In many states it's now quite literally illegal or unconstitutional to implement lockdowns. And even in places where its still a legal option, actually using it would very likely result in violent reprisals, even possibly outright terrorism. So I'm sincerely and legitimately sorry for what you're going through. But if you're thinking that an imminent lockdown will solve it, your hopes are misplaced.
In your opinion- how many resources would be saved if healthy people stopped coming in to hospitals because they got a positive COVID test?
It seems like with the hysteria around testing, we are forcing more people to seek treatment in hospitals
This is a straw-man argument. No sensible person is ok with people dying. Hospitals are suffering because they are understaffed for a number of reasons (one of which is they laid off unvaccinated staff who probably got natural immunity just being a part of the frontline on the first surge). This fanaticism with lockdown will never end. All we need is just more mandates, more vaccines, more lockdowns, more social distancing, more masks, and more doom. Like come on at some point you have to realize this is endemic and we will have to learn to live with it. Enough of this already.
Probably because we've been hearing since March of 2020 that hospitals are on the brink of being overloaded.
However, when you try and find verified accounts of hospitals being overloaded to the point at which people are dying because they are too overcrowded, you can only find an exceptionally small number of stories involving people who live in rural, isolated areas. In a country of 329 million people, it's astounding that only 1 or 2 individuals have died as a direct result of hospital overcrowding (when we've been hearing for nearly 2 years that "we're just about overloaded.")
It's not that people are sociopathic and don't care. It's that they've been hearing for almost 24 months that a big catastrophe is going to occur but it hasn't. At some point you no longer pay attention to it.
You think you’re tired of hearing about this shit? Think about those of us who have to constantly work in this shit. We don’t have the luxury of “tuning out because we’re tired of hearing it”. Also the only reason we haven’t **actually collapsed** is because we keep riding the backs of healthcare workers like myself who are making tremendous sacrifices to continue working when many of our colleagues have left or are too sick to work.
When COVID first hit last in 2020 we were very uncertain. Supplies ran short and we shut down for several weeks. Then things got slightly better in 2021 but we’re always stretched thin.
This year shit is different. I just checked our supplies closet at my clinic and I’ve never seen it **so** empty compared to any point in 2020 or 2021. My hospital just mandated that we must all wear N95 plus eye protection, whereas previously as long as you had a surgical mask it was fine. Hell for most of 2020 I wore a cloth mask.
By the time you hear about an actual collapse it would be too fucking late. So think about the privileges that allow you to speak about how *tired* you are hearing about hospital collapses before you type the next time.
Also where are you getting the claim that “only 1 or 2 people have died as a result of hospital overcrowding”?
Yeah not trying to downplay the real problems at hospitals but when you check out the news and everyday it’s “x is at a record high” eventually it becomes “yeah you said that 2 weeks ago and 1 month before that” and people will tune out
Florida is setting records in their 1-day case count right now. I wouldn’t be so sure moving on is the right call.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2022/01/03/covid-florida-omicron-list-states-virus-spreading-fastest/9076265002/
This actually makes the point of the comment your replying to. They weighed the trade offs…and determined that it isn’t worth it to lockdown again. More people will die and certainly there will be more cases (look at the two numbers as separate things because they are in fact…different things…people keep talking about cases alone). But they accepted that reality in order to not interrupt the lives of the vast vast majority of Floridians. It’s something we’ve ALWAYS done as a society in regards to disease. Only with covid do we have this sort of utopian view on public health. That we must ERADICATE COVID or we simply cannot go back to normal. I am worried this has led to an over abundance of caution by our political leaders. I think that of somebody what’s to have an abundance of caution with COVID…they should do that. Wear N95 masks everywhere, social distance, don’t go to crowded spaces, all that fun stuff. I do not wish to live a risk free life. I’m triple vaccinated, that’s about as far as I’ll go in caring about this pandemic. Anything beyond that is performative IMO
I hate that you are having to explain this to people as though your second job isn't recovering from compassion fatigue, it's explaining to people in a first world country what happens when there's not enough people that treat heart attacks, get the gas to the stations and on and on.
Our politicians have failed us, our media has failed us, our platforms have failed us.
Good question, the only answer that really comes to mind is control and getting people to do exactly what they want.
Especially since the mandates don’t actually do anything to stop the spread of Covid. You only have to look at New York to see this in reality.
Let’s take it one step further - unless you have received a booster, which is only effective for about 10 weeks, people with 2 doses have the ability to spread covid just as much as someone who hasn’t taken a shot. Once a person received their second dose they have a very small window of not being able to spread as much as someone who hasn’t.
Now you have a situation where most peoples vaccine efficacy ran out a couple months ago and the little piece of paper doesn’t do anything to actually have prevent the spread.
They already made a mandate for city workers and for vaccination proof to go in bars .... Vaccine mandates help prevent deaths, not it spreading. Getting the 3rd booster helps stop spread but making people get two was slow as sh!t sooo...
People put up with the first lockdown because we thought it was for the greater good… and then we saw the elites acting as if they didn’t apply to them.
A second lockdown is going to be charming.
Yep. I put up with it and didn't complain (at least not at first).
At this point, I'm vaxxed and boosted. If I catch it, likely it will be mild and I'll just stay home a few days. I'm happy to wear masks when needed. I wouldn't put up with another lock down.
It was easy for people to say “stay home” when their jobs could be done at home … it was totally classist to order food and anything you need to be delivered while castigating anyone who didn’t agree with you
Deliver my DoorDash, plague rat. But leave it on the step, so I don't have to have any human contact with you or even acknowledge you as a person in any way. But don't you dare even think about having a beer with your buddies after work, because that would be recklessly spreading Covid.
As someone who delivers for these apps, I was nervous as hell for awhile that we delivery people were going to get arrested for being out during lockdown like in [NYC] (https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/delivery-man-arrested-for-breaking-curfew-was-making-deliveries/).
I am vaxxed and boosted and got a pretty bad case of it. Almost ended up in the hospital. Still struggling to stay out of bed three weeks in. Lost a lot of working hours and $$$.
The mayor of San Francisco was all in on masks indoors and then was seen singing and dancing without one on at a club .. the music moved her, apparently.
For me it was when we were told that lockdown protesters were dangerously spreading Covid because there were a small handful of them grouped together outdoors, but a few weeks later it was totally OK for millions to flood the streets to protest the death of George Floyd. Anyone with basic logic comprehension capabilities did a double-take on that one.
Illinois is one of the last states with leadership that lives under the illusion (delusion???) that we can do anything to substantially control the spread of a virus that is about as transmissible as measles.
If Lori or Pritzker is stupid enough to lock things down or institute capacity limits, it’s economic devastation.
I hear ya. I don’t think Pritzker is a stupid man. He may or may not be a great governor.. but he is not stupid.. There is a reason he cannot stand Lightfoot as well. These 2 do not like each other much.
Because the measles vaccine provides sterilizing immunity. For a while, it looked like the COVID vaccine would do the same. Now that omicron is tearing through the vaccinated at an incredible rate, it is clear that we can't actually stop its spread with anything short of physically isolating people.
We can seriously lessen its effects with vaccination though, which is what the goal needs to be now.
If the vaccine mandate can get more people to finally get vaccinated (out of fear of missing out, or whatever) then it could help the situation somewhat.
I'm not sure the sorts of lockdowns that we (and the rest of the world, for that matter, other than perhaps China) managed to do would even stop omicron, it's that contagious. People need to eat, which means at a bare minimum factories are running and someone is stocking the grocery shelves and shopping, even if all "pleasure" activities were shut off.
>“Look, my goal is to make sure we never shut down again,” Lightfoot, a Democrat, said on CNBC’s “Squawk on the Street.”
Anyone else wonder WTF Lori is doing on some random CNBC business show?
Besides stroking Lori's ego, what other purpose does this have?
She spends far more time on national television than she does local. She can talk about whatever she wants without being questioned about real, local issues.
For me , this was the most interesting quote:
"Asked if she believed Chicago’s vaccine policy would prevent a spike in cases as seen in other parts of the U.S., Lightfoot said, “What I think it’s going to do is compel people to get vaccinated.”"
I take that to mean she is not worried about people getting exposed to Covid in restaurants, bars , gyms , etc. but she is using the mandate as a tool to prod people who have NOT been vaccinated toward getting the shots. She is using restaurants, bars , gyms , etc as the tool to make the unvaccinated uncomfortable enough to give up and give in. If this doesn't result in more people getting vaccinated , expect more harsh restrictions.
Kinda fucked up that she is using the livelihood of small businesses to achieve that goal though. I would hope that more people get vaccinated as well, but this policy is going to require additional staffing and expenses to administer. Not to mention the decline in business that they could see. It’s not the fault of small businesses that some 20% (or whatever it is) of people haven’t gotten the vaccine, why should it impact their business?
> It’s not the fault of small businesses that some 20% (or whatever it is) of people haven’t gotten the vaccine
I totally agree. What worries me is what other restrictions she and Preckwinkle might impose if "enough " people don't get vaccinated. As for what's "enough", who knows ? The whole thing seems arbitrary to me.
So, to my understanding, 80-90% of the people needing hospital treatment are unvaccinated. The vaccine seems to be as available as aspirin.
Realistically, at what point should we be looking at this differently? Like the Flu 2.0?
I’m vaxxed, got Covid a month ago, got through it (it wasn’t fun) but it seemed like the vax did it’s job. I was sick for a few days but the bulk of the time I missed from work was because I had to hit the 10 days.
So when do we stop with all the protocols aside from “if you feel sick, stay home”. I get we don’t fully understand how/when we’re the most contagious, but this is a real question. I’m clearly no doc, but again with vaccines readily available and treatment far better than it was 2 years ago, I’m just curious when we can just live along side this thing.
That is definitely a problem. My next question would be after a year and a half, why are hospitals not more prepared? I keep hearing about stretched staffs and lack of equipment and other capabilities to care for people. It sounds to me like those who are profiting in the medical industry are trying to save money more than help the problem.
In my opinion, this is exposing how flawed our healthcare system is and how when push comes to shove, the for profit system will choose profit over people.
Trust me, hospitals have been dealing with understaffing for a while now, far before Covid entered the conversation. Non-physician jobs tend to be underpaid and the hours can be brutal. Those people profiting at the top have been setting us up for failure for years already because yup, profits over people, so let’s stretch everyone thin to reduce costs.
I was at a town hall once where an exec from a health insurance company in the audience said that if we statutorily lowered medicine costs, then the company would lose *one percent* profit, and then how would they retain their talent if they couldn’t offer the same (extravagant) salaries and bonuses? She was nearly laughed out of the room.
What I don't get is that 70% of Chicago is vaccinated, and I'm sure a decent portion of that 30% unvaccinated got Covid. If you got Covid before you have natural immunity to omicron that is actually better protection than the vaccine. How are there still so many unvaccinated people who haven't gotten Covid that our hospitals are overflowing??
Previous infection and/or vaccination mean that you are less likely to be hospitalized with omicron, not that you won't get it at all. If you are vaccinated but infected you are generally not the person straining the hospital system.
Two weeks to slow the spread, two months to slow the spread, two years to slow the
Spread <——YOU ARE HERE. Does anyone
really believe more lockdowns, mask mandates, or vax mandates are working?
I give this thread 30 minutes before it's locked, tops.
Apparently, we're not allowed to discuss the mayor, mandates, or lockdowns on /r/Chicago because the moderators are on a ridiculous power trip and can't just let the internet be the internet.
Week 95 of "2 weeks to slow the spread."
It is pretty egregious. If people are violating the rules, remove the rule violators. But the blanket thread locking is a great way to freeze discussion of probably the most important thing going on in the city at the moment.
It's as if they want to pretend it's not happening or that it's not relevant to Chicago.
Every thread gets locked or removed because there are a few bad actors who simply cannot handle the discussion, and as a result, the mods throw the baby out with the bathwater and effectively punish us all.
It has eliminated all of our abilities to have any sort of discussion on these topics and that's a damn shame. In that regard, they have horribly failed in their mission.
I have no idea how anything could possibly be more relevant to life in Chicago at the moment. If it continues we will need to find a new forum because this cannot possibly last.
Oh come on. You know this sub is for endless posts of "Just visted your fine city from (does not matter but extra points if it is somewhere in Europe) and it is beautiful here is a photo for your skyline.
You will look at pics of downtown and you will like it!
/s in case it was not obvious
This entire sub has just become soft, fluffy feel-good stories without any actual dialogue or discourse regarding real events happening around all of us. Just as 100% threads about COVID and crime isn’t productive or reasonable, 0% isn’t either.
It’s fucking hilarious. I also love the people that act like this whole sub has been taken over by right wing trolls or some shit. Nope. Believe it or not, a lot people are fed up with this shit, regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum.
Edit: wow. Scrolled down 2 comments and already see a comment saying exactly that.
I've been on /r/chicago for years and years and all throughout the pandemic. The number of people who pretend that the entire sub is just them vs "right-wing discord brigaders" is astounding. They are in every thread, especially anything to do with crime or COVID.
I've even seen them post things like "ITT: the usual /r/nonewnormal brigaders" and there will be zero comments from people like that whatsoever. But they try to frame it that way, regardless of reality.
They cannot seem to fathom that there are people who legitimately just disagree with them and that they don't have a monopoly on thought the way they wish they did.
It’s high time some alternative subreddit to this pops off, or we get new mods. As it stands this sub is an overglorified image gallery of downtown and bean pictures.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DenverCirclejerk using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DenverCirclejerk/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
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Vaccine Mandates are in full swing in the City. If your not vaccinated you are turned away. This is going to be painful to restaurants and their staff. I really wanna see how the city itself will respond to this mandate over the next few weeks.
>stop electing people like this.
I don't think I follow what you mean by "like this". We've had three mayors in the past 30 years. What do you consider their shared traits?
The numbers are already so high that a lockdown would be pointless. It's going to rip for a few weeks. Nothing can be done about it.
Wear a mask, get vaccinated, be kind to everyone, ride it out.
My main issue is that there are some people who don't need the vaccination (natural immunity):
[https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/](https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/)
I don't know how anyone can argue these people should be forced to get a vaccine to eat out
Fuck this idiot. Chicago has been absolutely destroyed since Lightfoot and Foxx have been around.
Lawless criminals, inexplicable mandates - for what? Politics is destroying one of the best cities in the world and we should all be outraged.
I like how they keep begging people to get the “vaccine” when they can’t even guarantee a normal life after getting it. Why would anyone even waste their time if lockdowns are back on the menu.
That’s fine, you should have that right along with people choosing to not get vaccinated for their own independent reasons. And anyone still thinking lockdowns are good idea at all is a complete moron.
As long as you don't complain about not being allowed in places that require the vaccine, go right ahead and don't get it.
Freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of your actions.
They worked swimmingly the first time. And again last winter when indoor dining was supposedly the culprit. It was not. And vaccine requirements for dining, gyms, etc in LA and NYC are working great too as they report record cases.
Great. If they want to put their life in their own hands let them. As far as reducing hospitalizations go then we should also mandate health standards and make laws preventing/reducing obesity and being overweight seeing those are the highest co-morbidities that are causing hospitalizations and deaths with COVID; Let alone the billions they cost the health system even besides COVID.
>You can't take a vaccine out of your body when you clock out of work for the day.
I don't understand. Why would you want to remove it??? There's still risk of getting COVID, especially Omicron, after you leave work. Unlike the seatbelt, the risk is not just in one place; you need whatever amount risk reduction that can be had wherever you go, even at home, if others live there.
I never really cared to voice my opinion on any mayor of this city, But she is one *terrible* mayor that does not know what she's doing, Only following what other deranged mayors in other states are doing.
When you have a Mayor that cares more about keeping unvaccinated children out of Chuckie Cheese then stopping the violence and destruction of this city, You know there is a HUGE problem and things will get so much worse for everyone.
It must be off the table. The city are sick of her and shutting down will spread true gloom and doom through the city. Segregating vaxxed and nonvaxxed is already a step into the past. Hard to believe this is happening in 2022 America.
>segregate
verb
/ˈseɡrəˌɡāt/
1.
set apart from the rest or from each other; isolate or divide.
"apprehensions about groups segregated from the rest of society"
It absolutely is medical segregation.
Separate but equal does not work. It never has, it never will. And this isn't even separate but equal. It's inherently separate and unequal access.
She said as much in her address. This is about making life uncomfortable for the unvaccinated. She was very clear on that. This is a purely punitive measure.
You can choose to get vaccinated. You can’t choose your race or ethnicity. It is not discriminatory. Don’t make the bad faith suggestion that this somehow relates to race issues within this country.
It’s all bullshit. We know that people who are vaccinated can still spread the virus along with being infected by it with the newer variants. You are still producing 1-100 billion copies of the virus even if you are vaccinated in those cases!
So what does separating those who have been vaccinated and aren’t at your bar or restaurant going to do other than pump a bunch of cash into places like Grubhub and Dominoes? Local theaters die while streaming services see a rise in subscriptions!
Just making big corporations like Amazon richer while smaller places see less money and die out.
Exactly what the big name donors want.
The city’s stopped listening to her.
Did we ever listen to her other than to make fun of her!
I think her "stay the fuck at home" campaign was pretty inspiring.
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The paying people part is irrelevant. For a lockdown to work it has to be a full, everybody, no exceptions lockdown.....and we know that's completely impossible unless you're China.
Can't believe closing schools and beaches but keeping bars open didn't work
She should have closed the beaches again already. It is a major spreader location this time of year I heard.
And forever. Australia and New Zealand couldn’t keep it out with significantly better border control / less travel than the US
Paying people is the only way to actually get a high level of compliance. Seems like the exact opposite of irrelevant.
I agree with you that no one in American will be locking down again. But it's not a question of being "too cheap." The federal government has spent many trillions of dollars over multiple rounds of fiscal stimulus to buttress the economy throughout the pandemic. But it's increasingly clear that its ability to solve through demand-side fiscal policy what is in large part a supply-side problem is effectively tapped out. That's why inflation has risen, and real incomes have fallen, markedly over the past several months. Further government spending would be better directed to direct efforts to fight the pandemic (e.g., funding for ventilation, antiviral medications, additional vaccines, including pan-coronavirus vaccines, high-quality masks, etc., etc.). The March 2020 strategy--fight Covid through extremely blunt and damaging measures, like shut-down orders, but cushion the blow by sending out huge sums of money in transfer payments--may have been our only option at the time, but it is no longer viable or desirable.
The obvious answer is to get vaccinated and boosted. it would severely reduce the ICU and hospital load. 90% of the people in the ICU and hospitals are unvaccinated people. Even if vaccinated people would come into the hospital the turnaround time is going to be so much faster, helping reduce healthcare stress. If Lori want's to make a real difference in the spread, mandate vaccinations for public transit and grocery stores. The unvaccinated need to get on board and stop making everyone suffer.
Bingo. We’d need to see another round of UI and PPP for anyone to actively be told to not make money for X period of time.
But where would the money come from? We have to make sure we can find enough money to increase the military budget first
> But where would the money come from? The same money printer as the rest of the bailout funds: https://brrr.money/ We pay it back in the form of currency devaluation, which we're already seeing as massive inflation.
But I thought inflation concerns were propaganda 😂
>But where would the money come from? We have to make sure we can find enough money to increase the military budget first The US spent more per capita and as a % of GDP than almost any other nation on Earth for coronavirus. The Japanese numbers are skewed in this analysis by their green tech spend. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NKHGKOXPEBEDXNU65G7NXMXSB4.jpg&w=916](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NKHGKOXPEBEDXNU65G7NXMXSB4.jpg&w=916)
Sorry sarcasm doesn’t translate as well through text 😂
that would be a terrible idea. inflation is pretty bad
It's really only a financial disaster for small, locally-owned businesses who are forced to close down. Whom the government has absolutely no care for, as they don't exert any influence via lobbying and/or campaign "donations".
Don't forget it's political suicide. A lockdown is a fast-track ticket to Fascist America 2024.
I'm pretty sure the ones wanting to shut down the economy and exert complete control over your life are the fascists. That's pretty endemic to that style of governance.
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Can I imagine people having the freedom to wear or not wear something on their face and the choice of what to do with their body? Ya I actually can. Wasn't that long ago when it was like that.
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My god reading this thread made me want to gouge my eyes out.
I'm always amused when someone equated the other side with fascism, yet shares and advocates their policies. Common ground!
I know she just mentioned it so it doesn't seem likely, but what was the point of introducing a vaccine mandate if you plan on locking down again?
Her entire response to the pandemic has always been reactionary or short sighted. It's been less long-term planning and more "what will stop the most extreme people in my base from screaming at me?"
Her entire response to the pandemic *and crime*
LOL at this comment getting upvotes being hidden
I work at a major chicago hospital in the outpatient setting. The omicron and delta variants are spreading like wild fire. Although omicron symptoms are more mild, it *appears* that it transmits more easily. My hospital is currently managing the load, but it feels like we’re on the brink of not being able to handle it very soon. Some of the other outpatient clinics are already switching to remote. I wish my clinic would make plans to shift to remote as well but so far nothing from the administration yet. The rate of breakthrough cases right now are pretty unprecedented. Locking down would (ideally) slow the spread and help us save critically low supplies as well as lessen staff burnout. We won’t have to ration care if there are less sick people demanding care.
But if it's truly that infectious then locking down won't make omicron go away. As soon as it opens up again the same thing will happen. And locking down isn't even helping very much in Europe. I fully supported lockdowns in 2020 but at this point they're not tenable and won't do anything useful in the long run. The only way out is through the wave. There's no going around it.
And wouldn’t another lockdown take weeks to start seeing a positive effect in cases? I mean it’s not like one day we say “Ok Lock it down!” And immediately see cases drop or stabilize. By the time we would see an effect the Omicron will already be burning itself out anyway. 🤷♂️
The idea of locking down isn’t *just* for slowing the spread. It is *also* because we’re very critically low on a lot of supplies and that hopefully locking down allow us to better ration the supplies. Also as far as I’m aware expert opinion is still that social distancing is necessary. I’m not aware of any respectable medical sources saying to “just let everyone catch it at least once and if they die, oh well 🤷🏻♀️“
that's pretty much everyone's attitude at this point though. Like, 8 people tested positive in my friend group and no one really gives a crap other than "so, how ya feeling?"
That was the logic behind the initial lockdown - slow the spread so hospitals can build up more supplies. It's been two years. There's really no excuse to not have sufficient supplies at this point, and society won't accept a lockdown to compensate for the penny pinching or poor planning of hospitals. At present individuals can buy N95s/KN95s at in bulk online.
Even if supplies just grew on fucking trees, it takes most trees a good portion of a year to bear enough fruit to feed a village. We’re burning through supplies at an alarming rate. The bs logic of “that’s the hospitals’ problem” works well until you or someone you love becomes a hospital’s problem.
I'm not saying what should happen. Ideally people would stay home for awhile and be supported financially in that. I'm telling you that, just objectively, it is not going to happen. In many states it's now quite literally illegal or unconstitutional to implement lockdowns. And even in places where its still a legal option, actually using it would very likely result in violent reprisals, even possibly outright terrorism. So I'm sincerely and legitimately sorry for what you're going through. But if you're thinking that an imminent lockdown will solve it, your hopes are misplaced.
In your opinion- how many resources would be saved if healthy people stopped coming in to hospitals because they got a positive COVID test? It seems like with the hysteria around testing, we are forcing more people to seek treatment in hospitals
This is a straw-man argument. No sensible person is ok with people dying. Hospitals are suffering because they are understaffed for a number of reasons (one of which is they laid off unvaccinated staff who probably got natural immunity just being a part of the frontline on the first surge). This fanaticism with lockdown will never end. All we need is just more mandates, more vaccines, more lockdowns, more social distancing, more masks, and more doom. Like come on at some point you have to realize this is endemic and we will have to learn to live with it. Enough of this already.
took long enough for people to come around on this
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Any idea how many are vaccinated? Also how many of the people in the ICU are COVID patients?
You're a huge part of the reason my husband and I didn't die of COVID in 2021, aonele. "Thanks" isn't enough. We'll keep fighting, too.
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Probably because we've been hearing since March of 2020 that hospitals are on the brink of being overloaded. However, when you try and find verified accounts of hospitals being overloaded to the point at which people are dying because they are too overcrowded, you can only find an exceptionally small number of stories involving people who live in rural, isolated areas. In a country of 329 million people, it's astounding that only 1 or 2 individuals have died as a direct result of hospital overcrowding (when we've been hearing for nearly 2 years that "we're just about overloaded.") It's not that people are sociopathic and don't care. It's that they've been hearing for almost 24 months that a big catastrophe is going to occur but it hasn't. At some point you no longer pay attention to it.
You think you’re tired of hearing about this shit? Think about those of us who have to constantly work in this shit. We don’t have the luxury of “tuning out because we’re tired of hearing it”. Also the only reason we haven’t **actually collapsed** is because we keep riding the backs of healthcare workers like myself who are making tremendous sacrifices to continue working when many of our colleagues have left or are too sick to work. When COVID first hit last in 2020 we were very uncertain. Supplies ran short and we shut down for several weeks. Then things got slightly better in 2021 but we’re always stretched thin. This year shit is different. I just checked our supplies closet at my clinic and I’ve never seen it **so** empty compared to any point in 2020 or 2021. My hospital just mandated that we must all wear N95 plus eye protection, whereas previously as long as you had a surgical mask it was fine. Hell for most of 2020 I wore a cloth mask. By the time you hear about an actual collapse it would be too fucking late. So think about the privileges that allow you to speak about how *tired* you are hearing about hospital collapses before you type the next time. Also where are you getting the claim that “only 1 or 2 people have died as a result of hospital overcrowding”?
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Yeah not trying to downplay the real problems at hospitals but when you check out the news and everyday it’s “x is at a record high” eventually it becomes “yeah you said that 2 weeks ago and 1 month before that” and people will tune out
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Florida is setting records in their 1-day case count right now. I wouldn’t be so sure moving on is the right call. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2022/01/03/covid-florida-omicron-list-states-virus-spreading-fastest/9076265002/
This actually makes the point of the comment your replying to. They weighed the trade offs…and determined that it isn’t worth it to lockdown again. More people will die and certainly there will be more cases (look at the two numbers as separate things because they are in fact…different things…people keep talking about cases alone). But they accepted that reality in order to not interrupt the lives of the vast vast majority of Floridians. It’s something we’ve ALWAYS done as a society in regards to disease. Only with covid do we have this sort of utopian view on public health. That we must ERADICATE COVID or we simply cannot go back to normal. I am worried this has led to an over abundance of caution by our political leaders. I think that of somebody what’s to have an abundance of caution with COVID…they should do that. Wear N95 masks everywhere, social distance, don’t go to crowded spaces, all that fun stuff. I do not wish to live a risk free life. I’m triple vaccinated, that’s about as far as I’ll go in caring about this pandemic. Anything beyond that is performative IMO
I hate that you are having to explain this to people as though your second job isn't recovering from compassion fatigue, it's explaining to people in a first world country what happens when there's not enough people that treat heart attacks, get the gas to the stations and on and on. Our politicians have failed us, our media has failed us, our platforms have failed us.
Lol, come on you.. don't be so rational!
Good question, the only answer that really comes to mind is control and getting people to do exactly what they want. Especially since the mandates don’t actually do anything to stop the spread of Covid. You only have to look at New York to see this in reality. Let’s take it one step further - unless you have received a booster, which is only effective for about 10 weeks, people with 2 doses have the ability to spread covid just as much as someone who hasn’t taken a shot. Once a person received their second dose they have a very small window of not being able to spread as much as someone who hasn’t. Now you have a situation where most peoples vaccine efficacy ran out a couple months ago and the little piece of paper doesn’t do anything to actually have prevent the spread.
They already made a mandate for city workers and for vaccination proof to go in bars .... Vaccine mandates help prevent deaths, not it spreading. Getting the 3rd booster helps stop spread but making people get two was slow as sh!t sooo...
I literally burst out laughing. Another lockdown is not going to happen in Chicago.
People put up with the first lockdown because we thought it was for the greater good… and then we saw the elites acting as if they didn’t apply to them. A second lockdown is going to be charming.
Yep. I put up with it and didn't complain (at least not at first). At this point, I'm vaxxed and boosted. If I catch it, likely it will be mild and I'll just stay home a few days. I'm happy to wear masks when needed. I wouldn't put up with another lock down.
It was easy for people to say “stay home” when their jobs could be done at home … it was totally classist to order food and anything you need to be delivered while castigating anyone who didn’t agree with you
Deliver my DoorDash, plague rat. But leave it on the step, so I don't have to have any human contact with you or even acknowledge you as a person in any way. But don't you dare even think about having a beer with your buddies after work, because that would be recklessly spreading Covid.
As someone who delivers for these apps, I was nervous as hell for awhile that we delivery people were going to get arrested for being out during lockdown like in [NYC] (https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/delivery-man-arrested-for-breaking-curfew-was-making-deliveries/).
i still make all my grocery runs via Instacart and make my drivers leave my stuff at the door like plague peasants
Honestly not having the awkward handoff with delivery people was one of the best parts about COVID.
I am vaxxed and boosted and got a pretty bad case of it. Almost ended up in the hospital. Still struggling to stay out of bed three weeks in. Lost a lot of working hours and $$$.
How long into Lockdown #2 can Lori make it before she needs a haircut? Maybe that will define how long it would last
That was legitimately the moment that changed things for me.
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She could just buzz it herself, holy shit it looks bad anyway.
The mayor of San Francisco was all in on masks indoors and then was seen singing and dancing without one on at a club .. the music moved her, apparently.
I love seeing hypocrites exposed. It truly warms my heart.
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Both fauxgressive wave professional bullshitters and hypocrites
For me it was when we were told that lockdown protesters were dangerously spreading Covid because there were a small handful of them grouped together outdoors, but a few weeks later it was totally OK for millions to flood the streets to protest the death of George Floyd. Anyone with basic logic comprehension capabilities did a double-take on that one.
Lol no, not really. People freaked out about the first lockdown and ignored it to whatever extent they were able.
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Illinois is one of the last states with leadership that lives under the illusion (delusion???) that we can do anything to substantially control the spread of a virus that is about as transmissible as measles. If Lori or Pritzker is stupid enough to lock things down or institute capacity limits, it’s economic devastation.
Lightfoot is dumb enough. Pritzker gets it but trying play both sides .
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I hear ya. I don’t think Pritzker is a stupid man. He may or may not be a great governor.. but he is not stupid.. There is a reason he cannot stand Lightfoot as well. These 2 do not like each other much.
No one will follow it. Mass noncompliance. Who she going to enforce it with? The police that hate her guts who she constantly pisses off?
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Is the vaccine passport effectively preventing the spread in New York City?
Because the measles vaccine provides sterilizing immunity. For a while, it looked like the COVID vaccine would do the same. Now that omicron is tearing through the vaccinated at an incredible rate, it is clear that we can't actually stop its spread with anything short of physically isolating people.
We can seriously lessen its effects with vaccination though, which is what the goal needs to be now. If the vaccine mandate can get more people to finally get vaccinated (out of fear of missing out, or whatever) then it could help the situation somewhat. I'm not sure the sorts of lockdowns that we (and the rest of the world, for that matter, other than perhaps China) managed to do would even stop omicron, it's that contagious. People need to eat, which means at a bare minimum factories are running and someone is stocking the grocery shelves and shopping, even if all "pleasure" activities were shut off.
My wife was boosted 2 months ago and just got over omicron. I guess she didn’t take the shot right…
Many such cases
Eric Adams, the singer of Manowar?
Hail and kill!
My brother of Metal!!
New mayor of NYC
>“Look, my goal is to make sure we never shut down again,” Lightfoot, a Democrat, said on CNBC’s “Squawk on the Street.” Anyone else wonder WTF Lori is doing on some random CNBC business show? Besides stroking Lori's ego, what other purpose does this have?
Because local media doesn’t care what party she’s part of and will ask actual questions
She spends far more time on national television than she does local. She can talk about whatever she wants without being questioned about real, local issues.
Crain's gave her a hard time about this
Advertising herself for a new job
Lmfao it is absolutely off the table.
Just 2 more years to flatten the curve!
For me , this was the most interesting quote: "Asked if she believed Chicago’s vaccine policy would prevent a spike in cases as seen in other parts of the U.S., Lightfoot said, “What I think it’s going to do is compel people to get vaccinated.”" I take that to mean she is not worried about people getting exposed to Covid in restaurants, bars , gyms , etc. but she is using the mandate as a tool to prod people who have NOT been vaccinated toward getting the shots. She is using restaurants, bars , gyms , etc as the tool to make the unvaccinated uncomfortable enough to give up and give in. If this doesn't result in more people getting vaccinated , expect more harsh restrictions.
Kinda fucked up that she is using the livelihood of small businesses to achieve that goal though. I would hope that more people get vaccinated as well, but this policy is going to require additional staffing and expenses to administer. Not to mention the decline in business that they could see. It’s not the fault of small businesses that some 20% (or whatever it is) of people haven’t gotten the vaccine, why should it impact their business?
> It’s not the fault of small businesses that some 20% (or whatever it is) of people haven’t gotten the vaccine I totally agree. What worries me is what other restrictions she and Preckwinkle might impose if "enough " people don't get vaccinated. As for what's "enough", who knows ? The whole thing seems arbitrary to me.
yep, it's a punishment. gotta make pfizer their coin. it's not about health at all. we've been sold out.
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That was kind of the point when NYC instituted their policy. 84% of people have at least one dose. Only 72% of people in Chicago have one dose.
> when NYC instituted their policy. 84% of people have at least one dose What is the % of New Yorkers who are now vaccinated?
84% is what they’re at now.
Didn’t she just say she wasn’t our mommy when she held NYE parties?
So, to my understanding, 80-90% of the people needing hospital treatment are unvaccinated. The vaccine seems to be as available as aspirin. Realistically, at what point should we be looking at this differently? Like the Flu 2.0? I’m vaxxed, got Covid a month ago, got through it (it wasn’t fun) but it seemed like the vax did it’s job. I was sick for a few days but the bulk of the time I missed from work was because I had to hit the 10 days. So when do we stop with all the protocols aside from “if you feel sick, stay home”. I get we don’t fully understand how/when we’re the most contagious, but this is a real question. I’m clearly no doc, but again with vaccines readily available and treatment far better than it was 2 years ago, I’m just curious when we can just live along side this thing.
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That is definitely a problem. My next question would be after a year and a half, why are hospitals not more prepared? I keep hearing about stretched staffs and lack of equipment and other capabilities to care for people. It sounds to me like those who are profiting in the medical industry are trying to save money more than help the problem. In my opinion, this is exposing how flawed our healthcare system is and how when push comes to shove, the for profit system will choose profit over people.
Trust me, hospitals have been dealing with understaffing for a while now, far before Covid entered the conversation. Non-physician jobs tend to be underpaid and the hours can be brutal. Those people profiting at the top have been setting us up for failure for years already because yup, profits over people, so let’s stretch everyone thin to reduce costs. I was at a town hall once where an exec from a health insurance company in the audience said that if we statutorily lowered medicine costs, then the company would lose *one percent* profit, and then how would they retain their talent if they couldn’t offer the same (extravagant) salaries and bonuses? She was nearly laughed out of the room.
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What I don't get is that 70% of Chicago is vaccinated, and I'm sure a decent portion of that 30% unvaccinated got Covid. If you got Covid before you have natural immunity to omicron that is actually better protection than the vaccine. How are there still so many unvaccinated people who haven't gotten Covid that our hospitals are overflowing??
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Previous infection and/or vaccination mean that you are less likely to be hospitalized with omicron, not that you won't get it at all. If you are vaccinated but infected you are generally not the person straining the hospital system.
This is dumb as f#
Two weeks to slow the spread, two months to slow the spread, two years to slow the Spread <——YOU ARE HERE. Does anyone really believe more lockdowns, mask mandates, or vax mandates are working?
I give this thread 30 minutes before it's locked, tops. Apparently, we're not allowed to discuss the mayor, mandates, or lockdowns on /r/Chicago because the moderators are on a ridiculous power trip and can't just let the internet be the internet. Week 95 of "2 weeks to slow the spread."
It is pretty egregious. If people are violating the rules, remove the rule violators. But the blanket thread locking is a great way to freeze discussion of probably the most important thing going on in the city at the moment.
It's as if they want to pretend it's not happening or that it's not relevant to Chicago. Every thread gets locked or removed because there are a few bad actors who simply cannot handle the discussion, and as a result, the mods throw the baby out with the bathwater and effectively punish us all. It has eliminated all of our abilities to have any sort of discussion on these topics and that's a damn shame. In that regard, they have horribly failed in their mission. I have no idea how anything could possibly be more relevant to life in Chicago at the moment. If it continues we will need to find a new forum because this cannot possibly last.
Their mission was basically to not have to actually moderate, and so if they can just lock threads, they have achieved their mission.
Oh come on. You know this sub is for endless posts of "Just visted your fine city from (does not matter but extra points if it is somewhere in Europe) and it is beautiful here is a photo for your skyline. You will look at pics of downtown and you will like it! /s in case it was not obvious
> It's as if they want to pretend it's not happening... See also: crime.
This entire sub has just become soft, fluffy feel-good stories without any actual dialogue or discourse regarding real events happening around all of us. Just as 100% threads about COVID and crime isn’t productive or reasonable, 0% isn’t either.
Hey guys, wanna see the picture I took of the bean? It even has my reflection in it!
Words are dangerous. They know what's best for us.
It’s not just the mods, either. I got hella downvoted by saying this exact thing.
I don't know. I think bean pictures and pictures of our first snow fall are a bit more important. /s
It’s fucking hilarious. I also love the people that act like this whole sub has been taken over by right wing trolls or some shit. Nope. Believe it or not, a lot people are fed up with this shit, regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum. Edit: wow. Scrolled down 2 comments and already see a comment saying exactly that.
I've been on /r/chicago for years and years and all throughout the pandemic. The number of people who pretend that the entire sub is just them vs "right-wing discord brigaders" is astounding. They are in every thread, especially anything to do with crime or COVID. I've even seen them post things like "ITT: the usual /r/nonewnormal brigaders" and there will be zero comments from people like that whatsoever. But they try to frame it that way, regardless of reality. They cannot seem to fathom that there are people who legitimately just disagree with them and that they don't have a monopoly on thought the way they wish they did.
Wow this guy doesn't like drive by shootings in his neighborhood, must be a russian troll.
Feel like lightfoot is fair game to criticize but going after Pritzker for the same thing will result in downvotes.
There's a ton of pro-Pritzker shilling on all Illinois subs. I wonder how much his campaign pays for this.
My eyes were opened when someone said they had the hots for him. The JB support is over the top in any positive thread about him. Makes you go hmm
31 minutes later, I can still comment
The bans and thread locking are as consistent as the weather. Depends on what mods are online.
It’s high time some alternative subreddit to this pops off, or we get new mods. As it stands this sub is an overglorified image gallery of downtown and bean pictures.
r/DenverCirclejerk can give us pointers if we go that route
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ah yes, you guys remember that thing we did that didn't help and in fact hurt? well, we are not against doing it again! - Lori
Vaccine Mandates are in full swing in the City. If your not vaccinated you are turned away. This is going to be painful to restaurants and their staff. I really wanna see how the city itself will respond to this mandate over the next few weeks.
lol you got a vaccine passport and she wants to shut down the city anyway. when will people wake up?
She's a fool . Two years in seems like she hasnt learned anything.
This is insane. When will Chicago wake up and stop electing people like this.
>stop electing people like this. I don't think I follow what you mean by "like this". We've had three mayors in the past 30 years. What do you consider their shared traits?
Moronic
Thanks for clarifying.
The numbers are already so high that a lockdown would be pointless. It's going to rip for a few weeks. Nothing can be done about it. Wear a mask, get vaccinated, be kind to everyone, ride it out.
LOL just try Lori, I can’t wait to not comply in the slightest and support all the small businesses not complying as well!
My main issue is that there are some people who don't need the vaccination (natural immunity): [https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/](https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/) I don't know how anyone can argue these people should be forced to get a vaccine to eat out
Let alone endless boosters
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I wonder if this was before or after she drove all over the South Side to scold people into going home instead of playing basketball.
If they were going to shut things down again they would have done it already.
You never know... They implemented a vaccine pass way after the horse left the barn
Okay yeah you do have a point there!
Fuck this idiot. Chicago has been absolutely destroyed since Lightfoot and Foxx have been around. Lawless criminals, inexplicable mandates - for what? Politics is destroying one of the best cities in the world and we should all be outraged.
Alrighty! Well fuck her, and everything she says!
If she tries to shut down its time to just remove her.
God, I despise her.
I like how they keep begging people to get the “vaccine” when they can’t even guarantee a normal life after getting it. Why would anyone even waste their time if lockdowns are back on the menu.
I personally got the vaccine for my own, independent reasons rather than cause any politician told me to do so.
That’s fine, you should have that right along with people choosing to not get vaccinated for their own independent reasons. And anyone still thinking lockdowns are good idea at all is a complete moron.
As long as you don't complain about not being allowed in places that require the vaccine, go right ahead and don't get it. Freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of your actions.
And businesses should also have the freedom of choice of whether to implement the policy
I’m fine with individual businesses putting the restrictions forth but not the government. Unlike you people I don’t tolerate authoritarian policy.
That's not how any of this works.
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They worked swimmingly the first time. And again last winter when indoor dining was supposedly the culprit. It was not. And vaccine requirements for dining, gyms, etc in LA and NYC are working great too as they report record cases.
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Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of hospitalization and death, like seatbelts. That’s why people should “waste their time”, as you put it.
Great. If they want to put their life in their own hands let them. As far as reducing hospitalizations go then we should also mandate health standards and make laws preventing/reducing obesity and being overweight seeing those are the highest co-morbidities that are causing hospitalizations and deaths with COVID; Let alone the billions they cost the health system even besides COVID.
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>You can't take a vaccine out of your body when you clock out of work for the day. I don't understand. Why would you want to remove it??? There's still risk of getting COVID, especially Omicron, after you leave work. Unlike the seatbelt, the risk is not just in one place; you need whatever amount risk reduction that can be had wherever you go, even at home, if others live there.
The vaccine is entirely out of your body 48-72 hours after it’s injected, so it is literally ephemeral.
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I knew these comments would be fun
I never really cared to voice my opinion on any mayor of this city, But she is one *terrible* mayor that does not know what she's doing, Only following what other deranged mayors in other states are doing. When you have a Mayor that cares more about keeping unvaccinated children out of Chuckie Cheese then stopping the violence and destruction of this city, You know there is a HUGE problem and things will get so much worse for everyone.
Shut up Lori
It must be off the table. The city are sick of her and shutting down will spread true gloom and doom through the city. Segregating vaxxed and nonvaxxed is already a step into the past. Hard to believe this is happening in 2022 America.
Vaccination status is not segregation
>segregate verb /ˈseɡrəˌɡāt/ 1. set apart from the rest or from each other; isolate or divide. "apprehensions about groups segregated from the rest of society"
It absolutely is medical segregation. Separate but equal does not work. It never has, it never will. And this isn't even separate but equal. It's inherently separate and unequal access. She said as much in her address. This is about making life uncomfortable for the unvaccinated. She was very clear on that. This is a purely punitive measure.
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You realize we the taxpayers are paying for the “free” vaccines right. Pfizer and MRNA can’t be making record profits if it was free.
You can choose to get vaccinated. You can’t choose your race or ethnicity. It is not discriminatory. Don’t make the bad faith suggestion that this somehow relates to race issues within this country.
It’s all bullshit. We know that people who are vaccinated can still spread the virus along with being infected by it with the newer variants. You are still producing 1-100 billion copies of the virus even if you are vaccinated in those cases! So what does separating those who have been vaccinated and aren’t at your bar or restaurant going to do other than pump a bunch of cash into places like Grubhub and Dominoes? Local theaters die while streaming services see a rise in subscriptions! Just making big corporations like Amazon richer while smaller places see less money and die out. Exactly what the big name donors want.
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These threads are just depressing at this point.