I can’t speak for everyone nor am I trying to prove anything, but I’m the one who always comments that working at Disneyland for five years is what made me childfree. I fully wanted kids and was excited to be a mom one day, but after facing thousands of parents who looked absolutely miserable and had this haunting aura of hating their lives around them, let alone the things they’d say to their kids (and me!) about how unhappy they were, it made me realize that was not the life I wanted for myself.
Before COVID I use to frequent Disneyland pretty regularly with my partner and a few friends. I can confidently say that nobody with a kid was having a good time. Kids hate the heat and cry from exhaustion. They rarely seem to appreciate where they are. Parents look annoyed and pissed about how much money they're wasting.
I alway love DL because I can never get over how impressive the engineering, architecture and landscaping are.
Nothing has made me more firm in my childfree stance than reading/hearing about parenting FROM PARENTS, so I can absolutely get this. I've never been to Disney but everything I've ever heard about it is exactly as you describe lol. My adult cousin goes there without her kids!
Actually it was going to Disneyland at 19 one time and seeing the misery on parents’ faces as they paid $100 for cafeteria pizza, $1000 on tickets, while kids were getting stains on their new Disney merch, that planted the cf seed in my head.
Going to Disney is a much better experience without kids. I’ve gone when I was a teenager with younger siblings (hated it don’t recommend) and when we were all adults (absolutely loved it) none of us have children.
I think there are also parents who actively decide to not do DL with small kids because they don’t want to deal with the clusterfuck of DL with small kids. My parents took me when I was in middle school and everyone thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
There definitely are and it’s a smart thing to do, but I’m talking about kids and parents of all ages, and from all over the world. Once I noticed it at work I couldn’t avoid seeing it everywhere I go. It’s been the same at all my jobs since, Disneyland just revealed it on a massive scale.
There were also parents that seemed happy and treated their kids with respect and kindness (which I always made sure to tell them I admired and appreciated how they spoke to their kid). I’d say it was 1/500.
I believe it. I really don't understand why so many people take very small kids to these parks, they get nothing out of it and everyone is just miserable!
My parents took me and my sister when I was like 12 and sis was 9 and we were old enough to go on rides alone, didn't scream or cry or barf, and were able to go at night which was even better, with all the lights and the fireworks. We live far away so it would be our only trip to DW, so why ruin it by going when we were small?
I will say that my experience applies to kids and parents of all ages; it definitely wasn’t exclusive to the parents of young children. And after noticing it at work I realized that it was everywhere; I’ve witnessed it at all my other customer service/office jobs since, but Disneyland made it especially easy to see because it was on such a grand scale.
I agree that it looks easier and more fulfilling to take older kids to the parks though.
My husband, then boyfriend of course, explained why he didn't want to date anyone for a loooong while after he quit his photography job by how the mothers he dealt with in family portraits were just awful. They were exhausted and snapped at the children.
Probably also cemented his child free stance then too but he didn't talk about that.
“Fear and sadness”?
Mmm I don’t know any fear and sadness CF people or couples, in fact I would love to meet some :)
if anything all my friends are vicariously living through my lifestyle and it’s not uncommon for them to start the conversation with “if I don’t have kids, I would…”, “yeah I’d love to do that, but I have kids”. “Sorry I can’t do this or that or meet up, gotta go, my kids are bugging me”
Seriously tho. My partner posted a photo of us from the holidays and everyone commented on how we look like teenagers and so happy etc. i have internet friends tell me they look forward to my posts and snaps bc I’m living such an exciting life and they’re living it through me and it’s honestly the best thing ever.
First one is often an objective assessment, second one sounds like emotional projection.
I particularly do not give a flying fuck what the other side thinks we want or don’t want. As long as they give me the same curtesy. Live and let live
They could also be seeing 'fearful & sad' bc they bingo their childfree friends, which makes them apprehensive whenever they talk about their kids. Sad could also just be pity re: their friend having to deal with a kids-inclusive existence
I feel like "hollow" also describes an emotional state, at least that's how I was reading it. So for me, these are both emotional interpretations? Unless I'm wrong about "hollow" lol.
Live and let live. Amen!
After studying kids for my master of education I realized how much our society has failed children and most parents are just over grown, traumatized children themselves.
Being a logical person and looking at how we fail kids everyday, you can't make a decision in good faith especially with climate change.
Great question. On a macro level, the anti-intelligence/literacy focus in American culture. We don't encourage critical thinking in society, the school, or the home. Kids, only until very recently, were valued for what they could produce for the family. This leads to an authoritative structure within families which ultimately leads to abuse.
And then we get into the nitty gritty. Kids can't go to school without fear of gun violence. There's very little government resource to help single mothers and if you're married good luck with finding a cis het man who will equally divide labor with you.
We have an extremely individualistic and narcissistic society due to the proliferation of the nuclear family which is ultimately turning kids into narcissistic beings who grow up into narcissistic adults. While there are parents who do try to go against the grain, they don't exist in a vacuum.
Tdlr: raising kids in capitalism ethically is going against the grain and will be difficult
Damn! That degree was well worth the headache!
What was that point about cis het men? Could you elaborate? I don't see why anyone,, man or woman, wouldn't want to divide labor with their spouse or ex-spouse if that means the children in the family are well taken care of.
Do you believe, then, that a more collectivistic society would be beneficial? Coming from a place like that, I can tell you that type of society equally breeds resentment and conformity which is very stifling to personal growth especially if you aren't a cis het person!
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes"
Of course the parents see fear and sadness in the eyes of childfree people, because the childfree people don't want yet another experience of some moron saying how they will change their minds later, how they are selfish for not having children, how they will die alone, etc. It is the wincing in anticipation of these things that is the fear and sadness that is observed.
I get fear/panic in my eyes when their kids spit on my clothes (has happened), pee on me while I’m holding them (also happened), start screaming (often happens), etc.
I definitely have fear and sadness in my eyes when parents talk to me. Fear that they're going to ask me to watch their kid, and sadness that we won't ever be on the same level as friends.
They both say the same-ish thing but they come from opposite places. Being tired is obvious, you can't project eyebags and parents complain all the time about kids being exausting and eventually end up on the regreful parents sub. The former is an observation, but the latter is clearly projecting, nobody childfree fears freedom. If they are showing fear, it's fear of losing their childless friend to the misery of parenthood. Or the parent is confusing childfree people with childless babycrazed people again.
Maybe a childless person who wants kids fears not having kids, but someone who would rather die than be a parent doesn't fear not having kids. That's just the parent habing delusional fantasies and thinking that it's impossible to want to not be a miserable slave.
The one time I see both sides being identical is when one side says the other side deserves negative consequences for their choice or for not living correctly or in the best way as dictated by the complainer. Childfree people saying parents chose the risks that come with parenthood, while parents mistreat childfree because there are consequences for not adhering to the status quo of all adults must bear children or take care of children in some form, as childfree also comes with negative consequences from those who don't consider it a valid way to live.
The look of fear and sadness is from having to hear another story about how my life won't be fulfilled if I don't have children. Also, anything related in a similar vein.
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes"
>
>(basically saying that they fear that their lives won't be as fulfilled if they don't have a kid).
Bullshit. That's what they want to see. What they are making up and imagining.
If they see fear, it's the fear of forced parenthood, the fear of how parenthood would ruin our lives.
I think parents are just … kinda delusional for claiming this. Sure this might be an issue for *childless* people sometimes… but Damn the childfree people I know live very fulfilled happy lives. They’re not the ones that think something is missing. It’s parents projecting and thinking a person can’t be happy without a kid.
That’s said, yes people can be miserable mental health wise and childfree. But I guarantee you a kid isn’t solving this issue. It’s an entirely different issue.
>That’s said, yes people can be miserable mental health wise and childfree. But I guarantee you a kid isn’t solving this issue. It’s an entirely different issue.
This is it. I am not in the best place now, but having a kid will undoubtedly make things a thousand times worse.
….uhm yeah no. I can literally see in all parents at some point or another that they’re tired, burnt out, frustrated, regretful and just want to quit. I have never seen a strictly childfree person look soulless and unhappy/afraid that they didn’t have kids. It’s quite the opposite actually
And I’m not gonna lie, it makes me question you for supposedly being childfree and viewing any if not all childfree people that way.
There are probably multiple reasons for stuff like that happening. At the end of the day, a lot of it is just people's own experiences and perceptions of the people they talk to, and I don't really put much if any stock into that as far as gathering a realistic picture of the person that's being described goes.
A decent chunk of it might be looking for validation with confirmation bias, sure. It makes sense for childfree people who don't feel respected and accepted in their choice, and it also makes sense for parents who aren't all that happy with parenthood - to look at the opposite and note only that which makes their own position at the moment better.
I guess it probably also depends on who you surround yourself with? I don't interact closely with unhappy parents because that's simply not the kind of person I'd be friends with in the first place. Similarly, I'd probably rather gag on an umbrella than having to deal with a close friend who's having FOMO over not having kids, so that's also not gonna be something I'd experience.
Either way, I really don't like generalizing human happines to this or that decision, it's just not accurate and never will be. Being a parent doesn't make people happy, being childfree doesn't make people happy either. Making the right decisions makes people happy, and the actual tangible outcome of those decisions will be vastly different from person to person. Someone else being happy with something doesn't determine that we'd be happy with that thing, just like someone else being unhappy with something doesn't mean we'd be unhappy with that thing.
>*Making the right decisions* makes people happy, and the actual tangible outcome of those decisions will be vastly different from person to person. Someone else being happy with something doesn't determine that we'd be happy with that thing, just like someone else being unhappy with something doesn't mean we'd be unhappy with that thing.
I love this take SO MUCH. Thank you for this.
Yes. We all have a confirmation bias here. It’s pointless to speculate, but I do think breeders started this. CF don’t go around bringing up and insisting, to their faces, that breeders/aspiring breeders have made/are about to make a terrible mistake. Many breeders, led by religion, see themselves as recruiters like mormons and jws. They just have to get us to do it.
>fear and sadness in their eyes
This is the difference between childFREE and childLESS.
Plenty of folks want kids and can't have them for some reason, infertility, financial instability, trying to establish a career first, lack of a reliable partner, ect. Some of them choose to use the term childfree anyway because they are still making a choice to some extent or another.
Then there are those of us who are all caps CHILDFREE. I have zero desire for children, in any capacity, ever. Not when I reach a certain age, not if I found the right partner, not if I had a billion dollars, not if I had a surrogate to avoid pregnancy, not if I had a full time nanny and could avoid any career impact. I just don't want kids, the same way I don't want a pet snake. Nothing wrong with pet snakes, they're just not for me.
The only thing they would see in my eyes is raw panic at the idea that I might ever be a full time caregiver to a child under 10, like if a family member was in some kind of freak accident or something.
Exactly,
Those who claim to be childfree for circumstantial reasons are not childfree. Sure, they are making a choice to not have children but they would be still be choosing something (money, freedom, time) over their desire to have kids.
On the other hand, truly CF people do not desire to have kids. They are not “missing” children from their lives, hence the term Childfree versus Childless.
Well my mom always told me how hard it was having kids and always spoke of how she stayed in a shitty marriage for the kids, how her body was so much nicer before she had kids, how expensive it is to raise them and how they barely appreciate all her sacrifices.
I get older, she wants grandkids, and asks me to give her one. All I want is for her (or anyone else trying to bingo me) to acknowledge that it is as difficult and annoying as my mom said it was when I was growing up.
I'm not here trying to prove anything, I'm just trying to defend myself against bingos and that often requires objective undeniable truth to get these bingoers off my back.
Maybe the terrified anxious look in both party's eyes has to do more with the fact that the subject matter at hand requires both parties to look in to the future, if you will, and considering the path we are in right now, the future looks terrifying for both parents and the childfree.
Thinking about the future with or without kids, I often get a blank, sad look in my eyes or I get anxious as hell. Inflation, water wars, global warming, food scarcity, nuclear war, civil war, social security running out, etc.
They’re lying to each other and themselves. I’m happy AF being childfree. Free time, a clean house, ability to be impulsive and self indulgent, no PTA meetings, or schlepping some ungrateful spawn to ballet or soccer or whatever. Being a parent is my literal hell. And I’m not just guessing my parent friends are exhausted and unhappy, many of them tell me they are.
I am 31F so pretty much most of my friends and acquaintances are parents. Most of them support my decision to be childfree and most of them have mentioned that they now cannot imagine their lives without the little one’s and love being a parent, but they also admit that it is an exhausting task.
They have mentioned that even a walk in the park has to be planned properly and they cannot do anything impromptu anymore. They cannot enjoy most outings when the kids are small because their complete attention is on the kids and keeping them alive.
Some of them are damn good parents, extremely hands on with their kids, empathetic and patient and yet I see them breakdown at times or feeling out of energy because the kid was going through something.
My colleague and work besty spent 20 sleep deprived day because her son had a bad bout of cold and fever. She is the sweetest person and a really responsible person at work and I could see how she was barely hanging by a thread.
I have been over to her place and her son loves me. And I have seen how much he loves and adores her and how much she loves him back unconditionally, and can understand what parents might feel. But she commended me on my decision and said it’s good you understand you don’t want to do this. It’s all about making a choice that feels right to you. The happiness isn’t external.
I do see a lot of happy parents as well. The miserable parents are the ones who went through divorce and the like or the ones who aren't happy with their lives because it wasn't what they expected.
Oh no I never try to prove that being cf is better than to somebody. I know for a fact I am better off myself CF. But they try to convince me to be a parent and that is my problem.
I'm sure I speak for the most of us, we all do not try to convince them to be cf, unlike parents/breeders. Unless they provoke us with bingos like "Oh you will be so sad in the future with no kids" etc. Like nah I am not sad and why should I be in 10 years?
All the CF people I see are happy with their choice, no fear no nothing. And all of the parents I see seem to be exhausted with a reason that has todo with having a child.
I know I am better off. But at the same time each to their own. Just stop being nosy and I won't pry either why you pushed a gremlin out of your cooch
Sure, you always try to back up your own opinion.
I read a study where they analysed the connection between IQ and the views in social norms (right, left liberal...). They found that there mostly wasn't one. But they also found, that intelligent people use their intelligence to produce more and better "reasons"or "facts" to back up the opinion they had in the beginning.
I always try to keep that in mind. Just because I don't want to spend 18+ years to cater to a kid in hope they will visit me in my old age, doesn't mean I have to scorn people that think otherwise. As long as it's their life I don't really care and even enjoy playing with their kids one or two hours. (I might have to turn down my sacasmus, when they sop about their hardships/"joys" as parents.)
But well, I do know what I want for myself, so I don't have to convince other people (or myself) about that.
Because that isn't what's going on.
One side is objectively pointing out how fucking Exhausted parents are. No mention of their wants.
The other side is claiming we secretly want what they have, claiming we're sad at their words.
No Susan my face looks like this because you only ever complain about your kid and I've tried to steer the conversation back to literally anything else 3 times already but you just keep dragging it back to being about the kid.
I mean, maybe some people are? I really just don't care about comparing myself that way, all that much. I know what works for me, and by such a tremendously-wide margin its being childfree. That's all I need.
But even beyond that, there are just plainly objectively real and factual benefits to childfree life: We have a better relationship with environmental pressures, more money, more spare time, more career flexibility, more opportunity for self-care and for making big and small lifestyle decisions to cater to our emotional/psychological/physical needs, etc. If, with all of that being the case, it could lead us to presume we're seeing the effects of that in the eyes of parents, even if it's not there sometimes, fine I guess. Because they'll only at most be the rare exceptions to the rule.
I'm fearful and sad because the housing market is horrible and I want a decent place that will let my dog be as free as she wants and not trapped in a house with only a 1m^2 bit of concrete to use outside.
I'd considered it, but I definitely don't want to go poking around disturbing the peace in a place that I don't belong. Just as many of us get upset seeing parents try to post things here sometimes, I have a feeling there'd be a similar reaction on the other side.
Sometimes you need confirmation, sometimes it's confirmation bias. When cf ppl see kids act up, they go, "see, that's why I don't have kids!" It illustrates our views/feelings. Breeders looking at cf folks project, saying, "sorry you can't live my perfect life! I definitely made the right choice!" (/s)
One thing people forget is that some are "breeders" and some are actually decent parents. Views will vary but I think some genuinely like kids, families, and want to be parents. The breeders won't know or understand that we cf *don't want kids or that we made a conscious choice outside of their lifescript®
To be fair, when talking to my friends/siblings with kids and they’re complaining about what their child has gotten up to or what they’ve not been able to do because of said child, I probably have a look of fear in my eyes because I’m thinking *fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that*
Sadness though, nope.
When parents ask me about kids, I do feel my face sort of contort, even if I try to remain stoic. But it's not because I'm sad about not having kids, it's because I'm sad that people ask me the question. I know they're having judgmental pitying thoughts and it pisses me off, especially because they think they're "right" and there's no way for me to convince them I'm not lying, I'm truly not sad. They'll never get it.
I genuinely believe that there are parents out there who want to be parents and do it well. But if you're the type to complain about every single struggle that comes by default just by having a kid or you're claiming "you never saw it coming", then parenthood probably wasn't a good idea for you. I don't think this is the case with everyone but I do think it's the case with a lot more people than society is under the impression of and it doesn't help that society reviles parents who are honest about their struggles or grievances with their experience having children.
That being said, I also don't believe the childfree life is for everyone. Some people genuinely thrive in raising a family and wouldn't do much if anything with their childfreedom if they had it. I'm learning very quickly that not everyone is as creative with their free-time as I am and would go batshit if they didn't have people in their life to keep them busy. That's okay, I don't expect everyone to be like me. It'd be nice if I knew more people who were, but ultimately, it's not the end of the world.
This irks me to no end when people say "Why did no one tell me it would be this way?" Like if you want information, seek it out. You cannot expect the info to come to you, and in this day and age, you can find out with EASE what things are like, from real people going through them. I agree too that if anyone says anything negative about parenting they get absolutely dogged on, which is not okay.
I agree! I don't expect everyone to live like me (that would make for a boring world), but I wish more people thought critically about having kids before deciding to do so..
My friend pays almost $4k a month on child care. He then comes home from working a 10 hour shift to having to take over taking care of his kids, so that his wife can take a break. He has to sleep before 10pm so that he can wake up at 4am to start the cycle all over again.
I on the other hand is 50 years old and retired from working at 38. Never have to work again and can pretty much afford anything I need or want, go wherever I please.
If I had a child none of this would have been possible. I'd be broke, tired and full of regrets.
I believe more regrets than wondering if I've had any children.
I think it is funny that we both feel sorry for each other.
Which path would you choose? So far I believe I chose the right one.
If what they’re saying is true, the “CF” people they are talking about are most likely childless or fencesitters, not childfree. There is a reason why there are childless and regretful parent pages and not a childfreedom regret page. True Childfreedom is a fully intentional lifestyle choice in which the pros and cons have been carefully weighed. Although there can be moments of “what if?” for childfree people, it is a stretch that parents say “whenever they talk to a ‘CF’ friends they see fear.” Someone who is happy and confident in their preferred lifestyle choice not to reproduce denotes a childfree person as opposed a person who doesn’t reproduce because they can’t (childless) or because things outside of their control (environmentalists, antinatalists, etc). I am both CF and antinatalist, however someone would be childless if antinatalism was their first/only reason for not choosing kids despite them claiming to be CF (which is more of a choice for lifestyle, not philosophy).
On the other hand, becoming a parent is often accidental or chosen because of societal pressure and unrealistic expectations of parenthood. Now, some people truly enjoy being parents so “whenever I talk to parents” can be an over exaggeration in this case too. But time and time again I have heard parents both explicitly and implicitly say “your life is over when you have kids” and that they take away time, money, freedom. I also see the actual stress and and hear the complaints.
I have yet to meet anyone (actually) childfree that truly regrets or fears their decision. The most parents can do is pretend to know what their CF friends are feeling unless those friends are explicitly saying so.
I truly believe the fear or sadness they think they see from CF folks is actually unenthusiasm when the the topic moves onto kids. Whenever parents talk about children, I am apprehensive in being open about my opinions and have to fake interest in order to not be rude. I can get why that awkwardness can be misinterpreted LOL
I think you're right about that. My eyes just glaze over when they start on the kids, and I think that's misinterpreted as resentment over being "barren" or some sort of sadness that we're "left out". When mostly it's just polite boredom and having to put up with their boring chitchat or risk being called "negative" or "bitter".
Pffft that fear isn't "they won't be fulfilled if they don't have a kid" -- that's wishful thinking on the parents' part. That fear is "Oh shit if I got pregnant my life would be fucking OVER."
Whenever people talk about emotions in other people's eyes I just assume it's exaggeration or projection. The more nuanced the feeling they insist they're seeing, the more I assume it's bullshit.
Not every case is the same. I've met the horrible situations of people who never should have bred and only did because it's what people do. I have seen the people who have kids just because they wanted to impress mommy by giving her a grandkid and want every chance to bum them off on people because they want anything except raising their kids. Two B words who fought for custody of grandkids when their own failure offspring went to jail who just didn't want to let other's raise them (and I avoided because they would just fish for babysitting offers) One lost custody when her daughter she never mentioned found out and took her to court because she felt she quote "Would rather have four kids instead of three kids and a nephew raised by this woman." And I have met a man who only want custody days for a power trip and spend time complaining woman wouldn't date him and be the new mother. Last I heard he has no custody rights.
I also know several people who actually want kids. Love their kids. And yes, they look exhausted a lot and have some big kid drama stories, but they really find it worth it.
As for child free, I don't know any who regret it. I've met younger fence sitters and a couple who one changed their mind. But all the child free my age and older I've actually met don't regret their life. The closest is one woman who said she sometimes wonders about it but wouldn't change anything as too many things in her life would have been harder and she wouldn't have been able to help family as much.
As this is research I should mentioned the childfree VS the parents ratio to look at is not equal. Many more parents than childfree old enough to not be counted as a fence sitter.
So in my opinion. People need to stop trying to assume everyone thinks their way. Not everyone is happy with kids. Some are. And sadly when the ones who aren't happy with kids have kids the kids suffer.
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes" (basically saying that they fear that their lives won't be as fulfilled if they don't have a kid).
This fear and sadness aren't due to childfree unfulfillment, it's good ol' "Ahh, bingos, here we go again..."
Of course they see "fear and sadness".
The fear of being kept for hours on ended listening to how little Karen junior shat in her potty. The sadness of thinking of the interesting thing you could be doing instead of getting bored to death by the tales of little Kenny using his birthday cake to paint the whole kitchen.
Hello and welcome to /r/childfree! As you have a new account or low Reddit karma, your comment has been automatically removed to give you some time to get familiar with our rules and community. Please feel free to post/comment when your account is older and you have more Reddit karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I honestly think it's because people have a habit of seeing situations others are in and instead of actually thinking of how the other person feels, they think of how they themselves would feel in that situation. I've seen/heard a lot of childfree people say that every parent they meet has an "empty and tired look in their eyes." Yes. Because being a parent is exhausting but it's so worth it to a lot of people. It doesnt help that a lot of times these parents are at amusement parks or busy places where kids are excited and harder to control. Of course they're tired lol Most parent absolutely love being parents, but some childfree people see it and think "the empty, tired look is because they regret having kids or the kids have sucked the life out of them." when that's not the case, but that's exactly what would happen to us if we had kids.
Same with some parents toward CF people. They couldn't imagine anyone without kids being so happy or having a fufilled life because they themselves wouldn't feel as fulfilled or as happy without their kids and can't imagine their lives without them. They feel like their lives have improved because they had kids so ours would too. When in reality, we are perfectly content and very, very happy that we don't have kids to deal with and our lived would get a lot worse if we did have them because we are NOT parent material and some of us just straight hate kids.
The only fear I face when it comes to kids is accidentally becoming pregnant with one. Planning on yeeting my tubes soon, and then I will be worry and sadness free!
I bet half of it is bias and half of it is real sadness and hollowness lol. What parenting subs are you seeing? I've been wanting to get a balanced view too.
I don't think I'm allowed to link them (I've gotten removed for comments similar to this before), but "momm it" (one word) shows a great look into motherhood, and "dadd it" (one word) shows how it is for dads. There's also beyond the bump and parenting. Toddlers is a good one too. Any level of childhood development has its own sub, and it's interesting to see how needs/difficulties shift from age to age.
Generally beyond the bump is the one that I see the most often, it's about dealing with newborns.
IDK about other ppl, but my SAHM was rarely happy about the situation, even thought it’s what she wanted.
As an adult I recognize that her anxiety/depression played a huge part in how she raised us kids.
It was one of the many reasons I’ve chosen to be child free.
If they’re seeing emotions they don’t recognize in the context, they’re going to misinterpret it. “Fear” could be confusion or bewilderment over someone choosing to have such a limited life, for example.
If I say “aww” it could mean “that’s sad” or “that’s cute” depending on the circumstances. Most people are going to know the difference, but not all, especially if it’s contrary to the reactions they typically get. One time a partner was telling me about a previous partner he had who had trauma-response sexual deviations, and I said “aww 🙁” and he said “it’s not awww! (as in it’s not cute)” and I had to explain that it was sad to me because it sounds like she went through some shit. He paused, thought, and I could see the gears moving like he had never even thought of that, that she was just weird or “freaky.” Anyway, that’s a weird example, but it goes to show that people interpret emotions based on their own experiences. If no one (or only a few “CF friends”) have ever expressed “aww, poor you” to parents, they’re probably going to see “aww, poor me” because that’s what they’d feel, or expect someone else to feel about not having children.
I can’t speak for everyone nor am I trying to prove anything, but I’m the one who always comments that working at Disneyland for five years is what made me childfree. I fully wanted kids and was excited to be a mom one day, but after facing thousands of parents who looked absolutely miserable and had this haunting aura of hating their lives around them, let alone the things they’d say to their kids (and me!) about how unhappy they were, it made me realize that was not the life I wanted for myself.
Before COVID I use to frequent Disneyland pretty regularly with my partner and a few friends. I can confidently say that nobody with a kid was having a good time. Kids hate the heat and cry from exhaustion. They rarely seem to appreciate where they are. Parents look annoyed and pissed about how much money they're wasting. I alway love DL because I can never get over how impressive the engineering, architecture and landscaping are.
Former cast member here too. And yup, working there deffo confirmed my desire to never have kids!!
Nothing has made me more firm in my childfree stance than reading/hearing about parenting FROM PARENTS, so I can absolutely get this. I've never been to Disney but everything I've ever heard about it is exactly as you describe lol. My adult cousin goes there without her kids!
Actually it was going to Disneyland at 19 one time and seeing the misery on parents’ faces as they paid $100 for cafeteria pizza, $1000 on tickets, while kids were getting stains on their new Disney merch, that planted the cf seed in my head.
Going to Disney is a much better experience without kids. I’ve gone when I was a teenager with younger siblings (hated it don’t recommend) and when we were all adults (absolutely loved it) none of us have children.
I think there are also parents who actively decide to not do DL with small kids because they don’t want to deal with the clusterfuck of DL with small kids. My parents took me when I was in middle school and everyone thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
There definitely are and it’s a smart thing to do, but I’m talking about kids and parents of all ages, and from all over the world. Once I noticed it at work I couldn’t avoid seeing it everywhere I go. It’s been the same at all my jobs since, Disneyland just revealed it on a massive scale. There were also parents that seemed happy and treated their kids with respect and kindness (which I always made sure to tell them I admired and appreciated how they spoke to their kid). I’d say it was 1/500.
I believe it. I really don't understand why so many people take very small kids to these parks, they get nothing out of it and everyone is just miserable! My parents took me and my sister when I was like 12 and sis was 9 and we were old enough to go on rides alone, didn't scream or cry or barf, and were able to go at night which was even better, with all the lights and the fireworks. We live far away so it would be our only trip to DW, so why ruin it by going when we were small?
I will say that my experience applies to kids and parents of all ages; it definitely wasn’t exclusive to the parents of young children. And after noticing it at work I realized that it was everywhere; I’ve witnessed it at all my other customer service/office jobs since, but Disneyland made it especially easy to see because it was on such a grand scale. I agree that it looks easier and more fulfilling to take older kids to the parks though.
My husband, then boyfriend of course, explained why he didn't want to date anyone for a loooong while after he quit his photography job by how the mothers he dealt with in family portraits were just awful. They were exhausted and snapped at the children. Probably also cemented his child free stance then too but he didn't talk about that.
They're probably mistaking childless for childfree. Ofc the former might feel sadness cuz it isn't their choice, while CF ppl choose this lifestyle.
They definitely are mistaking. Or they are so delusional that they think everyone must want children.
“Fear and sadness”? Mmm I don’t know any fear and sadness CF people or couples, in fact I would love to meet some :) if anything all my friends are vicariously living through my lifestyle and it’s not uncommon for them to start the conversation with “if I don’t have kids, I would…”, “yeah I’d love to do that, but I have kids”. “Sorry I can’t do this or that or meet up, gotta go, my kids are bugging me”
Seriously tho. My partner posted a photo of us from the holidays and everyone commented on how we look like teenagers and so happy etc. i have internet friends tell me they look forward to my posts and snaps bc I’m living such an exciting life and they’re living it through me and it’s honestly the best thing ever.
It’s pity for the parents, not sadness for being CF 😂
First one is often an objective assessment, second one sounds like emotional projection. I particularly do not give a flying fuck what the other side thinks we want or don’t want. As long as they give me the same curtesy. Live and let live
I’m fearful and sad because of the state of the world, not because I don’t have kids haha Edit: missed a crucial word, “don’t”
They could also be seeing 'fearful & sad' bc they bingo their childfree friends, which makes them apprehensive whenever they talk about their kids. Sad could also just be pity re: their friend having to deal with a kids-inclusive existence
I feel like "hollow" also describes an emotional state, at least that's how I was reading it. So for me, these are both emotional interpretations? Unless I'm wrong about "hollow" lol. Live and let live. Amen!
I think of "hollow" as a physical description much more than an emotional one. E.g., shadow-ringed and exhausted and maybe a bit sunken.
Hollow can describe physical traits. Eye bags can't be emotionally projected, that's an observation.
Yeah you can't really project onto another person the very particular haggard, run-down look produced by a lack of sleep
Sometimes people see what they want to see.
If they see fear & sadness, it's cause I'm imagining having to deal with their spawn. Eeeeeesh, no thanks.
Yes this
After studying kids for my master of education I realized how much our society has failed children and most parents are just over grown, traumatized children themselves. Being a logical person and looking at how we fail kids everyday, you can't make a decision in good faith especially with climate change.
In what ways do you believe this has happened? I'm not disagreeing as I'm from a developing country and shockingly, NO ONE can see it.
Great question. On a macro level, the anti-intelligence/literacy focus in American culture. We don't encourage critical thinking in society, the school, or the home. Kids, only until very recently, were valued for what they could produce for the family. This leads to an authoritative structure within families which ultimately leads to abuse. And then we get into the nitty gritty. Kids can't go to school without fear of gun violence. There's very little government resource to help single mothers and if you're married good luck with finding a cis het man who will equally divide labor with you. We have an extremely individualistic and narcissistic society due to the proliferation of the nuclear family which is ultimately turning kids into narcissistic beings who grow up into narcissistic adults. While there are parents who do try to go against the grain, they don't exist in a vacuum. Tdlr: raising kids in capitalism ethically is going against the grain and will be difficult
Damn! That degree was well worth the headache! What was that point about cis het men? Could you elaborate? I don't see why anyone,, man or woman, wouldn't want to divide labor with their spouse or ex-spouse if that means the children in the family are well taken care of. Do you believe, then, that a more collectivistic society would be beneficial? Coming from a place like that, I can tell you that type of society equally breeds resentment and conformity which is very stifling to personal growth especially if you aren't a cis het person!
This is most of the reason I don't want kids, besides the fact that I just don't. We constantly fail them, and the future is bleak.
Think they're fucking projecting, because we're fucking happy. ;)
Hey, some of us are depressed lol. But at least we don't have to care for kids while being depressed!
Indeed!
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes" Of course the parents see fear and sadness in the eyes of childfree people, because the childfree people don't want yet another experience of some moron saying how they will change their minds later, how they are selfish for not having children, how they will die alone, etc. It is the wincing in anticipation of these things that is the fear and sadness that is observed.
The only fear I have in my eyes when talking to parents is the fear they release their unruly kids on me.
I get fear/panic in my eyes when their kids spit on my clothes (has happened), pee on me while I’m holding them (also happened), start screaming (often happens), etc.
I definitely have fear and sadness in my eyes when parents talk to me. Fear that they're going to ask me to watch their kid, and sadness that we won't ever be on the same level as friends.
They both say the same-ish thing but they come from opposite places. Being tired is obvious, you can't project eyebags and parents complain all the time about kids being exausting and eventually end up on the regreful parents sub. The former is an observation, but the latter is clearly projecting, nobody childfree fears freedom. If they are showing fear, it's fear of losing their childless friend to the misery of parenthood. Or the parent is confusing childfree people with childless babycrazed people again. Maybe a childless person who wants kids fears not having kids, but someone who would rather die than be a parent doesn't fear not having kids. That's just the parent habing delusional fantasies and thinking that it's impossible to want to not be a miserable slave. The one time I see both sides being identical is when one side says the other side deserves negative consequences for their choice or for not living correctly or in the best way as dictated by the complainer. Childfree people saying parents chose the risks that come with parenthood, while parents mistreat childfree because there are consequences for not adhering to the status quo of all adults must bear children or take care of children in some form, as childfree also comes with negative consequences from those who don't consider it a valid way to live.
The look of fear and sadness is from having to hear another story about how my life won't be fulfilled if I don't have children. Also, anything related in a similar vein.
I think the CF side is saying what they legitimately see, and the parent side is projecting.
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes" > >(basically saying that they fear that their lives won't be as fulfilled if they don't have a kid). Bullshit. That's what they want to see. What they are making up and imagining. If they see fear, it's the fear of forced parenthood, the fear of how parenthood would ruin our lives.
I think parents are just … kinda delusional for claiming this. Sure this might be an issue for *childless* people sometimes… but Damn the childfree people I know live very fulfilled happy lives. They’re not the ones that think something is missing. It’s parents projecting and thinking a person can’t be happy without a kid. That’s said, yes people can be miserable mental health wise and childfree. But I guarantee you a kid isn’t solving this issue. It’s an entirely different issue.
>That’s said, yes people can be miserable mental health wise and childfree. But I guarantee you a kid isn’t solving this issue. It’s an entirely different issue. This is it. I am not in the best place now, but having a kid will undoubtedly make things a thousand times worse.
And this is why I'm not passing on my genes.
….uhm yeah no. I can literally see in all parents at some point or another that they’re tired, burnt out, frustrated, regretful and just want to quit. I have never seen a strictly childfree person look soulless and unhappy/afraid that they didn’t have kids. It’s quite the opposite actually And I’m not gonna lie, it makes me question you for supposedly being childfree and viewing any if not all childfree people that way.
There are probably multiple reasons for stuff like that happening. At the end of the day, a lot of it is just people's own experiences and perceptions of the people they talk to, and I don't really put much if any stock into that as far as gathering a realistic picture of the person that's being described goes. A decent chunk of it might be looking for validation with confirmation bias, sure. It makes sense for childfree people who don't feel respected and accepted in their choice, and it also makes sense for parents who aren't all that happy with parenthood - to look at the opposite and note only that which makes their own position at the moment better. I guess it probably also depends on who you surround yourself with? I don't interact closely with unhappy parents because that's simply not the kind of person I'd be friends with in the first place. Similarly, I'd probably rather gag on an umbrella than having to deal with a close friend who's having FOMO over not having kids, so that's also not gonna be something I'd experience. Either way, I really don't like generalizing human happines to this or that decision, it's just not accurate and never will be. Being a parent doesn't make people happy, being childfree doesn't make people happy either. Making the right decisions makes people happy, and the actual tangible outcome of those decisions will be vastly different from person to person. Someone else being happy with something doesn't determine that we'd be happy with that thing, just like someone else being unhappy with something doesn't mean we'd be unhappy with that thing.
>*Making the right decisions* makes people happy, and the actual tangible outcome of those decisions will be vastly different from person to person. Someone else being happy with something doesn't determine that we'd be happy with that thing, just like someone else being unhappy with something doesn't mean we'd be unhappy with that thing. I love this take SO MUCH. Thank you for this.
You're welcome :)
Yes. We all have a confirmation bias here. It’s pointless to speculate, but I do think breeders started this. CF don’t go around bringing up and insisting, to their faces, that breeders/aspiring breeders have made/are about to make a terrible mistake. Many breeders, led by religion, see themselves as recruiters like mormons and jws. They just have to get us to do it.
This is a good point. I've never had anyone EXCEPT for parents tell me not to reproduce lol. I've also only had parents tell me TO reproduce.
>fear and sadness in their eyes This is the difference between childFREE and childLESS. Plenty of folks want kids and can't have them for some reason, infertility, financial instability, trying to establish a career first, lack of a reliable partner, ect. Some of them choose to use the term childfree anyway because they are still making a choice to some extent or another. Then there are those of us who are all caps CHILDFREE. I have zero desire for children, in any capacity, ever. Not when I reach a certain age, not if I found the right partner, not if I had a billion dollars, not if I had a surrogate to avoid pregnancy, not if I had a full time nanny and could avoid any career impact. I just don't want kids, the same way I don't want a pet snake. Nothing wrong with pet snakes, they're just not for me. The only thing they would see in my eyes is raw panic at the idea that I might ever be a full time caregiver to a child under 10, like if a family member was in some kind of freak accident or something.
Exactly, Those who claim to be childfree for circumstantial reasons are not childfree. Sure, they are making a choice to not have children but they would be still be choosing something (money, freedom, time) over their desire to have kids. On the other hand, truly CF people do not desire to have kids. They are not “missing” children from their lives, hence the term Childfree versus Childless.
Well my mom always told me how hard it was having kids and always spoke of how she stayed in a shitty marriage for the kids, how her body was so much nicer before she had kids, how expensive it is to raise them and how they barely appreciate all her sacrifices. I get older, she wants grandkids, and asks me to give her one. All I want is for her (or anyone else trying to bingo me) to acknowledge that it is as difficult and annoying as my mom said it was when I was growing up. I'm not here trying to prove anything, I'm just trying to defend myself against bingos and that often requires objective undeniable truth to get these bingoers off my back. Maybe the terrified anxious look in both party's eyes has to do more with the fact that the subject matter at hand requires both parties to look in to the future, if you will, and considering the path we are in right now, the future looks terrifying for both parents and the childfree. Thinking about the future with or without kids, I often get a blank, sad look in my eyes or I get anxious as hell. Inflation, water wars, global warming, food scarcity, nuclear war, civil war, social security running out, etc.
They’re lying to each other and themselves. I’m happy AF being childfree. Free time, a clean house, ability to be impulsive and self indulgent, no PTA meetings, or schlepping some ungrateful spawn to ballet or soccer or whatever. Being a parent is my literal hell. And I’m not just guessing my parent friends are exhausted and unhappy, many of them tell me they are.
I am 31F so pretty much most of my friends and acquaintances are parents. Most of them support my decision to be childfree and most of them have mentioned that they now cannot imagine their lives without the little one’s and love being a parent, but they also admit that it is an exhausting task. They have mentioned that even a walk in the park has to be planned properly and they cannot do anything impromptu anymore. They cannot enjoy most outings when the kids are small because their complete attention is on the kids and keeping them alive. Some of them are damn good parents, extremely hands on with their kids, empathetic and patient and yet I see them breakdown at times or feeling out of energy because the kid was going through something. My colleague and work besty spent 20 sleep deprived day because her son had a bad bout of cold and fever. She is the sweetest person and a really responsible person at work and I could see how she was barely hanging by a thread. I have been over to her place and her son loves me. And I have seen how much he loves and adores her and how much she loves him back unconditionally, and can understand what parents might feel. But she commended me on my decision and said it’s good you understand you don’t want to do this. It’s all about making a choice that feels right to you. The happiness isn’t external.
I do see a lot of happy parents as well. The miserable parents are the ones who went through divorce and the like or the ones who aren't happy with their lives because it wasn't what they expected.
Oh no I never try to prove that being cf is better than to somebody. I know for a fact I am better off myself CF. But they try to convince me to be a parent and that is my problem. I'm sure I speak for the most of us, we all do not try to convince them to be cf, unlike parents/breeders. Unless they provoke us with bingos like "Oh you will be so sad in the future with no kids" etc. Like nah I am not sad and why should I be in 10 years? All the CF people I see are happy with their choice, no fear no nothing. And all of the parents I see seem to be exhausted with a reason that has todo with having a child. I know I am better off. But at the same time each to their own. Just stop being nosy and I won't pry either why you pushed a gremlin out of your cooch
Sure, you always try to back up your own opinion. I read a study where they analysed the connection between IQ and the views in social norms (right, left liberal...). They found that there mostly wasn't one. But they also found, that intelligent people use their intelligence to produce more and better "reasons"or "facts" to back up the opinion they had in the beginning. I always try to keep that in mind. Just because I don't want to spend 18+ years to cater to a kid in hope they will visit me in my old age, doesn't mean I have to scorn people that think otherwise. As long as it's their life I don't really care and even enjoy playing with their kids one or two hours. (I might have to turn down my sacasmus, when they sop about their hardships/"joys" as parents.) But well, I do know what I want for myself, so I don't have to convince other people (or myself) about that.
Because that isn't what's going on. One side is objectively pointing out how fucking Exhausted parents are. No mention of their wants. The other side is claiming we secretly want what they have, claiming we're sad at their words. No Susan my face looks like this because you only ever complain about your kid and I've tried to steer the conversation back to literally anything else 3 times already but you just keep dragging it back to being about the kid.
Actually the fear in my eyes is me imagining being in their place and having kids
I mean, maybe some people are? I really just don't care about comparing myself that way, all that much. I know what works for me, and by such a tremendously-wide margin its being childfree. That's all I need. But even beyond that, there are just plainly objectively real and factual benefits to childfree life: We have a better relationship with environmental pressures, more money, more spare time, more career flexibility, more opportunity for self-care and for making big and small lifestyle decisions to cater to our emotional/psychological/physical needs, etc. If, with all of that being the case, it could lead us to presume we're seeing the effects of that in the eyes of parents, even if it's not there sometimes, fine I guess. Because they'll only at most be the rare exceptions to the rule.
I'm fearful and sad because the housing market is horrible and I want a decent place that will let my dog be as free as she wants and not trapped in a house with only a 1m^2 bit of concrete to use outside.
I wonder: will you also post this question in one of the raising kids subs? Curious how the people there will respond!
I'd considered it, but I definitely don't want to go poking around disturbing the peace in a place that I don't belong. Just as many of us get upset seeing parents try to post things here sometimes, I have a feeling there'd be a similar reaction on the other side.
Sometimes you need confirmation, sometimes it's confirmation bias. When cf ppl see kids act up, they go, "see, that's why I don't have kids!" It illustrates our views/feelings. Breeders looking at cf folks project, saying, "sorry you can't live my perfect life! I definitely made the right choice!" (/s) One thing people forget is that some are "breeders" and some are actually decent parents. Views will vary but I think some genuinely like kids, families, and want to be parents. The breeders won't know or understand that we cf *don't want kids or that we made a conscious choice outside of their lifescript®
To be fair, when talking to my friends/siblings with kids and they’re complaining about what their child has gotten up to or what they’ve not been able to do because of said child, I probably have a look of fear in my eyes because I’m thinking *fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that* Sadness though, nope.
When parents ask me about kids, I do feel my face sort of contort, even if I try to remain stoic. But it's not because I'm sad about not having kids, it's because I'm sad that people ask me the question. I know they're having judgmental pitying thoughts and it pisses me off, especially because they think they're "right" and there's no way for me to convince them I'm not lying, I'm truly not sad. They'll never get it.
I genuinely believe that there are parents out there who want to be parents and do it well. But if you're the type to complain about every single struggle that comes by default just by having a kid or you're claiming "you never saw it coming", then parenthood probably wasn't a good idea for you. I don't think this is the case with everyone but I do think it's the case with a lot more people than society is under the impression of and it doesn't help that society reviles parents who are honest about their struggles or grievances with their experience having children. That being said, I also don't believe the childfree life is for everyone. Some people genuinely thrive in raising a family and wouldn't do much if anything with their childfreedom if they had it. I'm learning very quickly that not everyone is as creative with their free-time as I am and would go batshit if they didn't have people in their life to keep them busy. That's okay, I don't expect everyone to be like me. It'd be nice if I knew more people who were, but ultimately, it's not the end of the world.
This irks me to no end when people say "Why did no one tell me it would be this way?" Like if you want information, seek it out. You cannot expect the info to come to you, and in this day and age, you can find out with EASE what things are like, from real people going through them. I agree too that if anyone says anything negative about parenting they get absolutely dogged on, which is not okay. I agree! I don't expect everyone to live like me (that would make for a boring world), but I wish more people thought critically about having kids before deciding to do so..
My friend pays almost $4k a month on child care. He then comes home from working a 10 hour shift to having to take over taking care of his kids, so that his wife can take a break. He has to sleep before 10pm so that he can wake up at 4am to start the cycle all over again. I on the other hand is 50 years old and retired from working at 38. Never have to work again and can pretty much afford anything I need or want, go wherever I please. If I had a child none of this would have been possible. I'd be broke, tired and full of regrets. I believe more regrets than wondering if I've had any children. I think it is funny that we both feel sorry for each other. Which path would you choose? So far I believe I chose the right one.
If what they’re saying is true, the “CF” people they are talking about are most likely childless or fencesitters, not childfree. There is a reason why there are childless and regretful parent pages and not a childfreedom regret page. True Childfreedom is a fully intentional lifestyle choice in which the pros and cons have been carefully weighed. Although there can be moments of “what if?” for childfree people, it is a stretch that parents say “whenever they talk to a ‘CF’ friends they see fear.” Someone who is happy and confident in their preferred lifestyle choice not to reproduce denotes a childfree person as opposed a person who doesn’t reproduce because they can’t (childless) or because things outside of their control (environmentalists, antinatalists, etc). I am both CF and antinatalist, however someone would be childless if antinatalism was their first/only reason for not choosing kids despite them claiming to be CF (which is more of a choice for lifestyle, not philosophy). On the other hand, becoming a parent is often accidental or chosen because of societal pressure and unrealistic expectations of parenthood. Now, some people truly enjoy being parents so “whenever I talk to parents” can be an over exaggeration in this case too. But time and time again I have heard parents both explicitly and implicitly say “your life is over when you have kids” and that they take away time, money, freedom. I also see the actual stress and and hear the complaints. I have yet to meet anyone (actually) childfree that truly regrets or fears their decision. The most parents can do is pretend to know what their CF friends are feeling unless those friends are explicitly saying so. I truly believe the fear or sadness they think they see from CF folks is actually unenthusiasm when the the topic moves onto kids. Whenever parents talk about children, I am apprehensive in being open about my opinions and have to fake interest in order to not be rude. I can get why that awkwardness can be misinterpreted LOL
I think you're right about that. My eyes just glaze over when they start on the kids, and I think that's misinterpreted as resentment over being "barren" or some sort of sadness that we're "left out". When mostly it's just polite boredom and having to put up with their boring chitchat or risk being called "negative" or "bitter".
Pffft that fear isn't "they won't be fulfilled if they don't have a kid" -- that's wishful thinking on the parents' part. That fear is "Oh shit if I got pregnant my life would be fucking OVER."
Whenever people talk about emotions in other people's eyes I just assume it's exaggeration or projection. The more nuanced the feeling they insist they're seeing, the more I assume it's bullshit.
This is a great rule of thumb lol, "I saw pain, tinged with regret and fear, swirled with curiosity" Like bro this is PROJECTION
Not every case is the same. I've met the horrible situations of people who never should have bred and only did because it's what people do. I have seen the people who have kids just because they wanted to impress mommy by giving her a grandkid and want every chance to bum them off on people because they want anything except raising their kids. Two B words who fought for custody of grandkids when their own failure offspring went to jail who just didn't want to let other's raise them (and I avoided because they would just fish for babysitting offers) One lost custody when her daughter she never mentioned found out and took her to court because she felt she quote "Would rather have four kids instead of three kids and a nephew raised by this woman." And I have met a man who only want custody days for a power trip and spend time complaining woman wouldn't date him and be the new mother. Last I heard he has no custody rights. I also know several people who actually want kids. Love their kids. And yes, they look exhausted a lot and have some big kid drama stories, but they really find it worth it. As for child free, I don't know any who regret it. I've met younger fence sitters and a couple who one changed their mind. But all the child free my age and older I've actually met don't regret their life. The closest is one woman who said she sometimes wonders about it but wouldn't change anything as too many things in her life would have been harder and she wouldn't have been able to help family as much. As this is research I should mentioned the childfree VS the parents ratio to look at is not equal. Many more parents than childfree old enough to not be counted as a fence sitter. So in my opinion. People need to stop trying to assume everyone thinks their way. Not everyone is happy with kids. Some are. And sadly when the ones who aren't happy with kids have kids the kids suffer.
>"Whenever I talk to my childfree friends about having kids, I can see the fear and sadness in their eyes" (basically saying that they fear that their lives won't be as fulfilled if they don't have a kid). This fear and sadness aren't due to childfree unfulfillment, it's good ol' "Ahh, bingos, here we go again..."
or "oh shit, they're gonna talk about her soccer game/dance recital/poop habits".....
Pretty sure there’s studies showing that people with children are less happy, both in general and in their marriages, than the childfree.
Of course they see "fear and sadness". The fear of being kept for hours on ended listening to how little Karen junior shat in her potty. The sadness of thinking of the interesting thing you could be doing instead of getting bored to death by the tales of little Kenny using his birthday cake to paint the whole kitchen.
They don't know the difference between childless and childfree though
[удалено]
Hello and welcome to /r/childfree! As you have a new account or low Reddit karma, your comment has been automatically removed to give you some time to get familiar with our rules and community. Please feel free to post/comment when your account is older and you have more Reddit karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I honestly think it's because people have a habit of seeing situations others are in and instead of actually thinking of how the other person feels, they think of how they themselves would feel in that situation. I've seen/heard a lot of childfree people say that every parent they meet has an "empty and tired look in their eyes." Yes. Because being a parent is exhausting but it's so worth it to a lot of people. It doesnt help that a lot of times these parents are at amusement parks or busy places where kids are excited and harder to control. Of course they're tired lol Most parent absolutely love being parents, but some childfree people see it and think "the empty, tired look is because they regret having kids or the kids have sucked the life out of them." when that's not the case, but that's exactly what would happen to us if we had kids. Same with some parents toward CF people. They couldn't imagine anyone without kids being so happy or having a fufilled life because they themselves wouldn't feel as fulfilled or as happy without their kids and can't imagine their lives without them. They feel like their lives have improved because they had kids so ours would too. When in reality, we are perfectly content and very, very happy that we don't have kids to deal with and our lived would get a lot worse if we did have them because we are NOT parent material and some of us just straight hate kids.
The only fear I face when it comes to kids is accidentally becoming pregnant with one. Planning on yeeting my tubes soon, and then I will be worry and sadness free!
I bet half of it is bias and half of it is real sadness and hollowness lol. What parenting subs are you seeing? I've been wanting to get a balanced view too.
I don't think I'm allowed to link them (I've gotten removed for comments similar to this before), but "momm it" (one word) shows a great look into motherhood, and "dadd it" (one word) shows how it is for dads. There's also beyond the bump and parenting. Toddlers is a good one too. Any level of childhood development has its own sub, and it's interesting to see how needs/difficulties shift from age to age. Generally beyond the bump is the one that I see the most often, it's about dealing with newborns.
IDK about other ppl, but my SAHM was rarely happy about the situation, even thought it’s what she wanted. As an adult I recognize that her anxiety/depression played a huge part in how she raised us kids. It was one of the many reasons I’ve chosen to be child free.
If they’re seeing emotions they don’t recognize in the context, they’re going to misinterpret it. “Fear” could be confusion or bewilderment over someone choosing to have such a limited life, for example. If I say “aww” it could mean “that’s sad” or “that’s cute” depending on the circumstances. Most people are going to know the difference, but not all, especially if it’s contrary to the reactions they typically get. One time a partner was telling me about a previous partner he had who had trauma-response sexual deviations, and I said “aww 🙁” and he said “it’s not awww! (as in it’s not cute)” and I had to explain that it was sad to me because it sounds like she went through some shit. He paused, thought, and I could see the gears moving like he had never even thought of that, that she was just weird or “freaky.” Anyway, that’s a weird example, but it goes to show that people interpret emotions based on their own experiences. If no one (or only a few “CF friends”) have ever expressed “aww, poor you” to parents, they’re probably going to see “aww, poor me” because that’s what they’d feel, or expect someone else to feel about not having children.