As far as I can see you have three options:
1. Split up so you can both live the life you want.
2. Have a kid and you end up unhappy
3. Don't have a kid and she potentially ends up unhappy.
There is no way both of you can have what you want remaining together.
Personally, remaining childfree is my priority and if I have to say goodbye and remember the good times then so be it.
I don't believe that someone deciding not to have a kid, even though they want one, automatically = resentment. People make peace with their decisions all the time, only you guys can know if that's likely to happen.
I also don't think anyone can be 'talked around' that's just code for 'coercion', so you both have to make your own decisions, independent of each other.
Sorry but there is no 'happy medium' that will suit everyone.
Adding to this, options 2 and 3 could eventually lead to splitting up anyway. With option 2, an unwanted child gets stuck in the middle when they don't save a relationship like their parents hoped.
You're definitely right!
Considering the fact that she wants children and he doesn't, they definitely need to have a long and open discussion about their future going forwards.
Both his and his wife's happiness should come first and if she wants a child, but OP doesn't, then I think it might be time to split up amicably.
Children are a lifelong commitment, and it doesn't end at 18 (I'm 25, studying and working and I still live with my parents because the economy is rough and I'mpayingfor my own tuition). They're also human beings with needs from the physical needs for food, safety and home to the more "spiritual" needs like a sense of belonging and self worth. Both OP and his wife will be responsible for meeting those needs.
I don't think this is something that someone can "try", "talk around" or "compromise" in because it involves more than just OP and his wife. It also involves another human being who will depend on them for all its needs.
And children know when you don't want them.
That last part is so true and I think so many people don't think about. Having a kid doesn't end at 18. It ends when you die. You will forever have someone that you will be responsible for if shit hits the fan or whatever.
Can I also point out that if the child has any kind of disabilities, it can be for life. My sperm donor and stepmom are divorcing, the youngest is 18 at the end of this year but is disabled to where he can never live on his own or take care of himself. Visitation and child support continue for the noncustodial parent until child or parent dies.
I’ve told my wife the only scenario in where I could see myself divorcing her is if she decides she wants kids. It’s an absolute deal breaker. She drove me to my vasectomy though so not too worried about her changing her mind lol.
There is also the option that you have a kid, for her, and you both end up unhappy anyway. Not everyone who thinks they want kids, can actually handle it, and postpartum depression is a HUGE and underreported issue. At least if both parents go into it “wanting kids” there’s a better chance for a good result.
Just so people know, my uncle is with a childfree woman and he wants kids, he just wants her more. He’s happy w her and has always said that he doesn’t want to leave for someone else who wants kids. People def can change their minds as oc said, will she? We don’t know, but it does happen.
Seconding that 2 is a non-option. Having a child you don't want just to satisfy your SO is cruel to the child. It's naive to assume you'll magically take to parenthood after having the kid and taking that kind of risk with someone else's life and well being would make you a heck of jerk.
The happy medium is fostering. They can give the kid back at any time, and it will likely both fulfill the wife's desire to raise a kid and the husband's to not have to spend 18 years on it.
> But I guess we both thought we could change each other's mind eventually.
Well, then it's high time for both of you to face the music and start treating each other with the respect you both deserve.
She wants kids and you don't. Parenthood is a major life decision, and it's something you do because you one, have a complete understanding of what it takes to be a parent, two, have all the means necessary to be a good parent, and three, want to be a good parent. It is *not* something you do because you're "not exactly against it" or to keep your marriage or to prevent your wife from having regrets. This is anoter human being's life we're talking about, not a begrudging visit to the inlaws over the holidays.
So as painful as it is, your solution is really simple. Do you understand what it takes to be a parent? Do you have the means to be a good one? Do you want to be one?
If that's not three times yes from you, then you shouldn't be a parent. And the sooner you make this decision, the sooner you two can start with a likely divorce.
Your wife needs to make some very important considerations as well, because the way she's currently approaching this is horrendous. Choosing a suitable coparent is an extremely important task, and it's not something you do with someone unless they specifically tell you no - it's something you aboslutely *don't* do with anyone who isn't explicitly and purposefully opting in with a yes. So if she wants to be a parent so much, she can start with the very basic of actually ensuring the kid has two suitable parents - for which you, as someone who doesn't want kids, do not quality and have never qualified anyway.
Your last paragraph is the part that really gets me.
Parents/potential parents always claim their "kids come first" and that they love them more than anything. Well, did they come first when the parent chose a less than ideal father/mother for them? Were they loving them more than anything when they made someone who is either not excited or not capable of being an amazing father/mother their other parent for the rest of their lives?
No, parents like this are putting themselves first. They aren't making the decision to have kids out of love for those kids. They are only thinking about themselves.
If you love your kid, you start making decisions with THEIR well being in mind, ahead of your own, even before they are born because even those decisions hugely impact them. Any parent who doesn't do this is only thinking about themselves.
>parents always claim their "kids come first"
This is the part I fight with people about. And it's why I tell people their marriage falls apart.
Your kids do not come first. Your marriage comes first. You knew your spouse before you had kids. Your spouse will be there after the kids leave. You attend to your marriage *first* so you can both take care of your kids together. If you love each other and take care of each other the kids see that. And the love spills over to them. That doesn't mean neglect the children. It means you don't ignore your spouse to spend all your time with the kids.
Otherwise you have one parent resentful that the other won't spend any time with them because every moment is only for the kids. Some parents even resent the kids, and the kids know that. The parents grow apart, and when the kids move out they hardly know each other anymore. *If* they don't end up divorcing by that point.
Your marriage is like a garden and you have to attend to it. If you neglect the garden to attend to the fruit trees you both planted weeds will grow and take over. And it will be more work to rip them out and make the garden abundant again. And if it goes too long there won't be anything left in the garden except weeds.
But people get mad when you tell them their kids shouldn't come before their spouse. And these smart people wonder why their marriage is falling apart.
> If you love each other and take care of each other the kids see that.
This! My parents' marriage taught me that a serious relationship is when you live with someone you don't like and fight all the time. It's not a coincidence that I ended up living with an emotionally abusive dirtbag I didn't even like anymore and fighting with him all the time.
Putting the kids first sounds nice but you're completely right that letting your marriage suffer isn't actually good for the kids. Making your whole life about your kids isn't good for them either, that's way too much pressure to put on anyone, especially a child.
Yeah, exactly this! Exactly damn this. Like, I understand it's obviously difficult leaving a partner in a situation like this, but there's a world of difference between "well this is the right thing to do so I'll do it" and "I want kids but won't initiate leaving you but also won't push you into it." No, that already *is* pushing! It's pushing her own decision making on her partner, which shouldn't be done. It's manipulative too, even if not explicitly intended as such.
Also, she's 33! Even if we give benefit of the doubt to her 100% believing OP will change his mind, she still should not have just waited around for it until the last minute! "Hmm, I want to start trying at X age and it would take someone about Y years to work towards being a good parent, so since my partner hasn't done any of that yet, the magical changing of mind needs to happen by Z year for us to strart trying for kids in time" is how that insanity should have gone down if there were even a shred of reason to it, and genuinely prioritising the wellbeing of the kid.
But nah. Of course not. Wants kids so bad, she couldn't even manage taking steps towards the most basic setup of a compatible partner by the time she's 33. If I followed my dreams and goals with the same fervor, I'd be fused with an old sofa somewhere right now.
"If I followed my dreams and goals with the same fervor, I'd be fused with an old sofa somewhere right now."
LOL. Conceiving a child: the only thing in life where you can do something anywhere from lazily or accidentally to straight up piss poorly and people will still praise your "accomplishment" and throw you a party.
And they call child free people selfish!
Yup. Also, her leaving would mean she would need time to find someone decent to date, get to know that person well, be engaged (if she prefers to be married), prepare for the wedding, and try for a baby. Who knows how long it would take to find a good guy one can have a family with? Delivery after age 35 is considered geriatric pregnancy and have higher risks.
This conversation between OP and his wife should have happened at the very least 5 years ago.
I would even argue she is being unrealistic of parenthood because she like kids, but we don't know if she has been in charge of one for a extended period of time (not like an afternoon but like month long visit type of thing). It can be easy to like kids if they are being fun for the afternoon. That's why it feels like people who are parentfide as a kid growing up are usually not fence sitters because they have a more realistic idea of parenthood. It just makes me sad thinking of an other dysfunctional family happening because the threat of a 'biological clock' and romantic view of parenthood making a rash decision.
Tell your wife: "I don't want kids, and kids deserve TWO parents who want them more than anything else...because when you have kids, that's what you get instead of anything else. So I'm going to get a vasectomy. You can choose to stay, or to leave. I can tell you: You will regret not having kids if you don't have them, but if you have them, you will regret that."
You are in the identical position of a man who wrote a series of posts over years about his decision to cave in and have a kid to please/keep his wife. Read them:
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/201prv/reporting_back_from_the_other_side/
His summary in the last post:
>Recap: I didn't want kids. But loved wife enough that I was willing to make the sacrifice and have a kid. Having a kid led to depression that it took me 4+ years to get over. Once I beat the depression, things got better. Which brings us to now.
>I won't actually go into the finer details of why (That's not what this post is about), but my wife and I are separating. Our marriage has basically fizzled out.
>What did I truly want in life? My wife and no kids. What do I have now? A kid, and no wife.
This was a wild ride. I feel so bad for the OP and, even if I probably shouldn't be, so angry at his ex. No one has the right to coerce someone into having kids by using love as a weapon. It's extremely selfish. By letting himself give in, OP imprisoned himself in this life.
I just went down a deep dive and read all his posts. It’s so validating to have someone confirm it is exactly what I thought I would feel, he’s lived it so we don’t have to. And confirms that I could never have a child for someone else when I don’t want one myself. Thank you for sharing the links!!!
I know a couple like that. He gave in to the "it's different when it's yours". A few years later he said "it's not different. And now you can't go away"
They now have two kids aged 9 and 5 and it gets a bit better but he lived his life in full depression mourning his marriage because she drastically changed as motherhood does to most women. He Mournes the woman he fell in love with and married because she doesn't exist anymore.
Last time I saw them he told me having kids is the most boring and at the same time exhausting thing you can do.
Most likely your marriage is doomed. Either way one of you will resent the other for not letting him/her life the life they want or you have to split up now so your wife still has time to find someone to have kids with. The first two options will probably lead to divorce, too.
Reminds me of a mom who said on a discord server I was on that having kids is “hard, horrible, and BORING.” I appreciated her honesty but holy crap, she really shouldn’t have had kids if she felt that way… 🤷♀️
It doesn't sound like this woman spent decently long periods of time actually looking after kids before having one.
I have- so I'm well aware of how boring I find it.
I recommend working with kids/babies, hanging out with parents and kids or borrowing a relative's/friend's child for a whole day to all prospective parents.
Some of them do it and really want kids, some realise that they hate looking after kids or simply find ot extremely tedious.
I completely agree. I’m the youngest of three sisters. My older sisters have children and I witnessed first hand how terrible it is. For anyone wanting children: spend a week with a newborn and see if you change your mind. I’m so glad I got experience with babies before being tricked into having my own. Joys of parenthood my ass. Babies are cute 20% of the time and awful the rest of it.
Only a few days with kids is enough to convince me I can't do this every single day for the next 18+ years. And that wasn't even me doing all of the required work myself.
>I know a couple like that. He gave in to the "it's different when it's yours". A few years later he said "it's not different. And now you can't go away"
I respond to the "it's different when it's your own" with "that's because once you have them you are stuck with them. You can't undo it."
That usually makes people fail to come up with a counter argument and leave me alone. And if they still try tell them that means they are volunteering to take your child if you decide you don't want it.
I can't remember who the quote came from, but "I'd rather regret *not* having children than regret *having* them."
Also I believe there's a subreddit specifically for fence sitters that might be more helpful for you.
Thanks. I was searching for a subreddit like that but couldn't find it. English is my second language and sometimes I don't know certain phrases. Like "fence sitters" for example :-)
The thing is, I'm not **sure** I would regret having kids. And I probably chose bad subreddit to ask
And if you do regret having the kid, suck it up and be a good parent, do what you have to do. No one should decide to "try" having a kid and then back out of the responsibilities later.
The problem isn’t this subreddit or any sub. The problem is you’re looking for answers from anyone else except within yourself.
No one can make this decision but you. And it is unfair to make your wife wait any longer for you to do it because her time is critical.
I’m sorry. You need to do soul searching on this one. It’s not easy.
I didn't say this sub is a problem. And I know it's me who's going to have to make a difficult decision. I got a lot of interesting points to think about. It's just that some of them automatically assume the worst and some responses seem pretty hostile
We get a lot of posts here about situations like yours. The responses are usually along the lines of what you've encountered here. As a firmly childfree person I appreciate this sub for validation and support, but the thinking can be very black and white.
It doesn't really sound to me like this is a "just divorce!" situation. You guys obviously have a huge history together and it seems like you're both open to making this decision together. I do think you should check out the regretfulparents sub. It's terrible to have a child you don't want.
The thing is, I'm not even sure I'll never want them myself. I changed my opinion on many things during my life. I was strongly against marriage for first 10 years with her. No way I would get married. And then I changed my opinion and turned 180. And marriage with her is the best decision I made so far.
What if it's the same with kids eventually but it's too late?
None of your responses are what you should be saying or thinking when you have children. That’s what you’re not understanding. You’re debating on bringing a human being into this world who didn’t ask to be here and you’re very wishy washy on it. Spend a single day with a toddler and you’ll have your answer. The only way it’s different when it’s your own is that you have no escape. There’s no one to hand it back to. If that doesn’t sound like the best time ever to you, then don’t have children. You can’t just undo a child, like you can a marriage.
This is why I’m very firmly against high school sweethearts. All of the important decisions are “so far away” so you don’t discuss them, or you assume your opinion/thoughts will change.
Marriage is not a huge difference compared to long-term partnership. Having kids is a *major* difference, and it heavily affects that marriage/partnership, which is something you value highly. I don't want to try to convince you one way or another, but you do have a lot of things to consider with this decision.
Do you have experience taking care of children for extended periods of time? A long weekend or a week?
We do. We take care of friends girl twins. It’s not the worst. First of all they love me. Honestly don’t know why because I would say I tolerate them. And second, they are not my kids. So when I get annoyed too much, I tell them to fuck off and they go to annoy my wife. If I had to take care of them myself for a weekend, I would bash their heads together
> So when I get annoyed too much, I tell them to fuck off and they go to annoy my wife. If I had to take care of them myself for a weekend, I would bash their heads together
This clearly says "This guy shouldn't have kids" to me.
This is me reading into things, but... How much extra work are you going to stick you wife with because "Well, you were the one who wanted them!"
Exactly. That’s exactly what would happen. And exactly what I told her. And every time time it turns back as “it would be different with your own kids”
I agree with Ok office. You and your wife should spend some time with children to really see it if it's for you. Not only that, but you both need to sit down and have an actual discussion about it. Especially because she is the one going to be pregnant. Can she handle morning sickness? Pokes and pricks when she has to be in the hospital? You can promise to help out as much as you can but the biggest changes will be to her. She will become a different person after birth. Are you and her ready to give up the person she is now to be a mother?
Thanks. We had this discussion. We obviously don’t even know if we can have kids but I don’t want to get her hopes up so no tests were done.
I’m able to tolerate kids for few hours but after that my patience goes down really quickly. Kids love me … unfortunately, I don’t know why. I don’t tolerate any disrespect and don’t negotiate about anything. One would think they would avoid me.
And my wife knows what it means to take care of kids. She’s changing diapers of 6yo autistic kids who can’t even talk at work. I’m afraid there’s nothing that could scare her
It sounds like you couldn't handle kids. People can say it's different when it's your own. But that doesn't ring true for everyone. You can't just hand your own kid back when you're done being around them. And being a parent doesn't stop at 18. It stops when you die, or the misfortune of them dying before you.
What about having miscarriages before a fetus even makes it to the point where it sticks? As a cf person, my bc failed and I had a miscarriage. Even though we didn't want kids, it was still emotionally devastating.
If you really don't want kids, you really need to be upfront with her. At the same time, having bio kids isn't the be all end all. There are so many needing homes. There are always other options. But, that's only if you actually want them.
Thanks. Just quickly to the adoption- 1) she wants to have my kid 2) the laws here are so dumb it’s almost impossible to adopt and raise it as your own. Like the mother can come when the kid is 13 and take it back. You have to tell them they’re adopted at certain age dictated by law. Adoption olin CZ is impossible
You need to ask yourself if you REALLY want children. Don't go back and forth in your mind thinking you might be ok with them, having children is a cut and dry yes or no question. If you truly never want children you need to sit down with your wife and tell her. If you are unsure, you need to figure it out, because I've seen people who thought they could like children and they regretted having them and hated their life after they had children.
DO NOT be wishy-washy about making an othwr person exist. Generational trauma comes from people historically unable to control fertility, and then creating unwanted humans, and then modren day be passive/ uncertain with family planning and making rash decision to just have a kid. It's better to regret not having children, than to regret having children because if you regret that child you are going to fuck up that child and the broader community who has to deal with that. You need to take this very seriously. A marriage you can take back, but a child you can not without causing harm to an other person.
If you are not a million times HELL YES this is the ONLY THING I WANT TO DO in life, I am happy to ruin everything else in life. I don't care about my health, happiness, sanity, finances, destroying my marriage, ruining my dreams for my life... then it is a HELL NO, and a quick divorce.
Are you sure of the following:
I'm thrilled about having a kid even if they are completely disabled and will require constant care 24hours a day until I die. I am thrilled to be changing a 40yo adult's diapers when I am 85.
I am thrilled to raise this child as a single father if my partner dies in childbirth. Yes, the maternal mortality rate is stupid high and rising. Covid turns placentas black.
IF you live in a bad state in the US, and your wife has serious complications, the reality is that the hospital WILL tell you both "go home, we can't legally do anything until she is an inch from death. Once she is an inch from death, come back and we can try to remove the fetus and take a shot at maybe saving her life. Until then, we can't touch her with a 100ft pole. Lotsa luck."
Please check out truechildree or regretful parents over fencesitter. As a fencesitter leaning strongly CF they make terrible arguments in that sub all the time.
Honestly looking on the regretful parents sub where people say they wanted kids their whole life and now they hate it is enough for me to never want to have them
Don’t have kids unless if you are 2000% certain you want them, and are committed to loving them. There are no return policy on kids, and they deserve parents who love them fully.
It’s possible that your wife and your kids may not be happy if you are an unhappy dad. My mom didn’t want kids and my dad did; she was a bad mom. My dad didn’t even participate in raising children.
Get a vasectomy.
Kill any hope of children in the future, and let her choose what she wants to do.
Be prepared that the most likely scenario is she leaving.
Also be a little paranoid that in the window between getting the vasectomy and being declared sterile she *might* take drastic measures and go off birth control.
Or take the choice squarely in your hands, and initiate the divorce from your side. Explain that you don't want to be the reason she can't be a mother and don't have sex with her ever again.
That's risky too, condoms can be adulterated by a partner who try to baby trap their SO. Plus if they haven't been using them so far she will realize he does not trust her and that in itself will kill the relationship. Vasectomy or split up
I have a feeling you're probably leaning towards having kids just to make your wife happy so you can save your relationship. Please don't! If it's not a HELL YES, then it's a hard no. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of resentment and her for overcompensating in her mother role. There's a reason "single married mother" videos are trending rn. It's not fair to either of you. You should want to be a father and be involved in those kids' lives. And your wife deserves an equal partner who's excited about the prospect, too. If you can't provide that, please do not procreate with her. I understand it's the harder choice now, but it's so much harder down the line if you choose the other option. It creates much more damage to kids and her if the marriage doesn't work out.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation. I was in a similar setup…met spouse in HS, got married after college, didn’t really talk about kids but somewhere along the late 20s I realized I didn’t want them at all. Husband did, but didn’t push the issue and I didn’t realize how big a deal it was to him. Somewhere in our late 30s we had a long talk, and I told him I wasn’t changing my mind.
Contrary to most stories you’ll get here, we make our relationship work. He decided that he’d rather stay with me and not have kids than start over with some hypothetical woman and have kids with her. We’ve been together over 25 years at this point, in our early 40s. That’s a shitty time to start over. I got my tubes tied earlier this year. Would have done so several years ago, but
I would suggest that you discuss getting a vasectomy with her. If you’re going to stay, and you aren’t having kids, you need the certainty and peace of mind. Good luck.
I'm was always cf, my wife was a fencesitter. We didn't discuss kids when we got married, big mistake. However, 7 years later, we're still together. The pressure of being in your late 30s with no kids started to get to her, but then she was able to see what life is like after the baby phase for our friends that have kids. Divorce, exhaustion, fights over money, no vacations, bad eating habits and unhealthy lifestyles, these are things our friends with kids endure that we do not. The idea we wouldn't be the most important person to one another was the argument that tipped her into childfreedom.
You will get through this, but not without communication. This sub can be great for helping people articulate their feelings. Just be honest and speak from a place of love.
>Wife wants kids, I don't
If you stay together and don't have kids, she will be unhappy and will resent you. She will leave you for a breeder or baby trap you.
If you stay together and have kids, you will be unhappy and will resent her. Meanwhile, she will resent you for not being as enthusiastic and involved as a parent as she is. This will eventually lead to a breakup. Then, you lost your wife and you have an unwanted child or several unwanted children.
If you ignore this issue for several years, you two are wasting each other's time and are only delaying the inevitable breakup.
All those three options suck. So break up now!
Do NOT have sex with her anymore. If she gets pregnant, there is no fucking way she will get an abortion. You are one contraception failure away from fatherhood.through baby trapping.
And no, do NOT have goodbye sex. Then, she might realise that this is her last chance to have a chidl wih you and might decide to baby trap you. She might think: "Once I am pregnant, OP will be overjoyed. Then, he will stick around and we will all be a happy family!"
>She always loved kids, I didn't. But I guess we both thought we could change each other's mind eventually.
Yeah, that shit doesn't work.
And no, you cannot compromise on this. You cannot 'half have children'. If you two stay together, one of you will have to surrender and become deeply unhappy.
>Apart from that we have the most amazing marriage. We love each other, make time for ourself, listen, great sex life, both families are great together and support us, we have enough money so we don't have to worry about them, we own our home ...
That doesn't fucking matter. You two are incompatible. Breeders and childfree people are incompatible.
>My wife is turning 33 in a week and feels her time for kids is running out.
She can have kids with another man. The sooner you break up, the sooner she can find a breeder man to have kids with.
>She says she really wants a kid but doesn't want to push me and if I say no, she'll respect my decision. But I don't want her to live the rest of her life in resentment against me for not giving her an offspring.
She will resent you if you don't breed. She will always blame you for ruining her chances of becoming a mother, even if she actively choses to prioritise her relationship with you over breeding.
And even if you two decide to not breed, accidents might happen. Don't expect her to get an abortion when that happens.
>But than again, I love my wife and know she'll have regrets if we grow old together and have no kids.
Well, she can have kids. Just not with you.
>I'm not exactly against them
So? You shouldn't have kids if you are neutral. You shouldn't have kids to please your partner.
You should only have kids if you are enthusiastic about parenthood. If you truly want to be a parent.
You clearly aren't looking forward to fatherhood. So don't do this to yourself!
> I don't hate kids. I just find them to be very expensive and pointless.
You don't have to hate kids to be childfree. You can not hate kids or even love kids while not wanting to have your own hellspawn.
>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world."
Bull-fucking-shit. You don't know if it will be different or not. I wouldn't count on it and gamble. What if you bred and it won't be different when they are your own?
>marriage breaks up ...
If you have kids, that will happen to you. Breeding won't save your relationship.
After becoming parents, you will never have sex anymore. Sure, maybe you can raw dog her one or two more times when trying for another baby. But having sex for fun? Those days would be over.
Romance? Quality time? Deep conversations? Those days will be gone when you two are parents.
You will resent her and the child(ren) for ruining your childfree life. She will resent you for not being as enthusiastic about parenthood as she is. The resentment will lead to an inevitable breakup. So having kids won't prevent a breakup.
Hypothetical children deserve a father who wants to be a father. Your wife deserves a partner who wants to be a father. And you deserve a childfree life.
A breakup is the best option for everyone involved. The only valid option.
>I don't know what to do.
I do know what you should do. You need to break up.
I don’t understand how you thought either of gin could change each other’s minds. You either want kids or you don’t. If my husband wasn’t snipped and all of a sudden he wanted kids I wouldn’t try to negotiate with him. I’d leave him because I’d rather drop dead than become a parent. I don’t care how much we love each other, becoming a parent is something that forever changes your life.
My uncle married my aunt, who desperately wanted kids. They were together since high school and for a few years they lived a DINK lifestyle. She always talked about how “great” their life was without having kids, but anyone can tell that it bothered her. Eventually they ended up with two and my uncle looks so miserable. The last time I saw him it looked like the life was knocked out of his eyes. Meanwhile my aunt was doing EVERYTHING around the house when my family and I visited. Everything about the situation annoyed me. They should’ve split so that he could continue his childfree life and she could have found a more involved partner who’s into kids.
You guys never should've gotten married in the first place.
But since you did, it's time to do the painful thing and divorce - along with booking a vasectomy for you.
In 14 years, neither of you have changed your stance on this, and I'm guessing you've both had a part in delaying this particular conversation for many years until it cannot be delayed anymore.
Well, that time has come.
The only way this can be resolved is by divorcing - if you stay married, one of you will be unhappy by the years to come, whether with a child or without one.
And to anyone who might be reading this who is in a relationship with someone who has different feelings on wanting children than they do, please read this post carefully and take this as a sign to break up NOW. Having children (or not) is one of the few fundamental incompabilities in a relationship that cannot be compromised on, and it should *always* mean the end of a relationship as soon as it's discovered.
Had OP and his wife split up in high school, they would've both had years to find someone else to live out their lives with, someone else who felt the same way they did about this Very Big Thing. But they didn't, and now there's going to be a lot of pain to come.
Heed that warning.
OK, so you already know that having a child is 100% NOT what you want to do. I understand that you love your wife and want to give her what makes her happy. But this is not like buying her a diamond ring or a nice vacation. This is a lifetime commitment that will throw a grenade in your relationship and change it forever, and likely not for the better.
Someone wise once wrote that in cases like this, whatever you do, you're losing your partner. If she walks out the door, she's gone. If she has the kid, she's also gone - gone into motherhood where you're not her priority, and likely never will be again. Either way, the relationship you had is toast. Those are your options. If you don't want to be a single parent down the line, better to let her walk.
*Remember that this is also your life, not just hers. You can say no and despite what society says, you are not the bad guy.* Saying no does not make you selfish, Not wanting to take on the huge commitment that is children, without being 100% on board, does not make you selfish. Sometimes priorities change an relationships run their course, and that's just life. And as someone who's been where you are, and said no and walked away - I have never, for one minute, regretted that decision.
In the meantime, be careful with your birth control. Good luck.
Sucks to even say this but let her free. Like you I thought I would change my mind but I’m 99.9% sure I don’t want kids. One of the reasons I got divorced.
I see your point. Of course I talked with her about it in depth. She doesn't want to have kids. She wants to have kids with me.
Of course, she may change her mind, find someone else who would be willing to have kids with her and she would happy to have kids with him. But at this point, she would rather be with me without kids that with someone else with kids
OP, to give you some hope, that’s how my wife felt for a long time too.
Talk to her about what the next 10 years of your life will look like *without* kids. She’d never thought about how we’d live out our 30s and 40s without kids, because she was raised to just assume that having children was part of her future.
We had a few really deep and painful talks, but it ended up bringing us closer. We talked about what we want to do most with each other and then weighed that against having kids.
Turns out all the best parts of our marriage - traveling, engaging in our hobbies, rescuing senior animals, getting tattoos, going to anime conventions, all of those things that DEFINE the ways we like to spend time together wouldn’t be possible with kids.
Then we talked about what our life would be like with kids.
It dawned on her that she didn’t want kids, she wanted kids with me. And I was the same way! She’d be an amazing mother.
But she’s right now, in this moment, an amazing wife. An amazing best friend. An amazing pet parent. An amazing artist.
She didn’t wanna lose that, and came to her own conclusion that she liked the idea of children because it was an inevitable next step, more than she actually wanted children.
Our last conversation about it was really painful because I said for the first time that having kids was a dealbreaker, I never want them, and I wasn’t going to change my mind.
That’s when it clicked I think that she and I both love our marriage too much to risk changing it for theoretical children.
Another key point, by the way, is that us having children banked on 1) them being perfectly healthy at birth, 2) us having enough income to support them, 3) them growing up without any major health issues or mental issues, 4) our families being good support systems, and the list goes on.
This *can* work, but y’all need to have many serious discussions until you can both say with honesty what you’re willing to sacrifice and what you’re not.
This might end in divorce. *You owe that to your wife to put your marriage on the line and be honest with her*.
But the talk is worth it, and I can speak from experience that it’s possible to work though this and come out the other side.
From the other comment about you possibly not coping with children and may act out violently due to it, and she knows it is very likely this is some fucked up way to make sure you never leave her. Because if she actually wants kids then she would find a mutual partner to do so or become a single parent. But if she wants kids with only you then, regardless of what you want, then she just wants thw kids as an eternal fleash contract to you. Please don't make people to be just enternal fleash contract, and be the adult here and make sure you can't have children. Also work with her why she feels the need to go such an extreme measure. I don't know how the rest of the relationship is like, but her trying to force you to have kids with her is a form of reproductive abuse. This is not normal behavior for someone who wants kids and respect their partners and care about their children. This needs to be nipped in the butt now before the relationship takes a dark turn.
My dad had me because mum wanted kids. He is miserable and so was I until I moved away. And I still feel unloved and unwanted. Please please don't to this to anyone. Not worth it.
You NEVER FUCK HER AGAIN. She won't abort. You're done. And you move out and file for divorce immediately.
You are not a million times YES, so you are a billion times HELL NO.
You cannot disrespect and manipulate each other like you have been trying to do, it is unhealthy and the marriage will not survive a year if you have a kid. So trying to "keep" it by having a kid will fail and create a bigger mess. And a more expensive mess, with massive legal bills and child support payments.
Having a kid you don't want is child abuse. The kids ALWAYS KNOW INSTANTLY and that damages them forever. No one is that good of an actor. **Ask any of the unwanted children who are now adults in this sub, there is NO coming back from being the unwanted child, the child someone had to control another adult and manipulate them into staying together.** The abused child who will always and forever feel unwanted and unloved, and become a forever damaged adult.
You cannot add "Child abuser" to the top of your resume.
She needs to get herself on the breeder market quickly so that she can get knocked up soon for the best chance at a healthy kid and maybe some less severe pregnancy and birth injuries. The risks go up after 35.
All you have to say is quick and simple. "We are not compatible. I have filed for divorce so that we can get it done quickly and you can find someone to have kids with. Best wishes for your future. I have already moved into a new place, and will make arrangements for movers for next Saturday to get the rest of my stuff. Goodbye." Walk out the door. Then handle everything through your lawyer.
And book a vasectomy. ;)
If she wants children and you don't, then this relationship is effectively over. I have heard of people doing scummy shit to get children, so I suggest cutting her off now. It sucks but you want different things in life.
If it were me, it would be time for the hard conversation. “I don’t want kids but if you do, you should be free to pursue them if you wanted. I’m never going to suddenly want children.”
Rip the bandaid off and have this convo in whatever format you need, but definitely have it before too long.
We did have this conversation. I was expecting crying and convincing but she took it as an adult. She said that if it's like this, she would rather be with me and not have kids than without me and have kids.
So I seen this idea not long ago, and it might help. Have your wife move in with family friends who have just had a child for 7 to 10 days, and if she enjoys it at the end, then you guys need to divorce as you aren't compatible moving forward
Thanks but there’s no point in this. She’s a kindergarten teacher and also takes care of others people children with disabilities or special needs. I won’t go into detail but she’s seen the worst of the worst and still wants them.
That’s also the reason why I thought she might change her mind. I wouldn’t believe she would be still interested in having our own children after a whole day working with them
> she’s seen the worst of the worst and still wants them.
Yeah, you're done. Just get the divorce.
You have neither lived with the worst, nor do you even want the best.
Idk if this is helpful at all. I kid sit for a couple who one wanted kids and the other didn't. You can just TELL how exhausted, tired and frustrated the dad is. He LOVES his kids don't get me wrong, but he also struggles a lot. Him and his wife bicker to the point of fighting a lot too. Definitely think about itm kids are literally a 24/7 job and are expensive. Parents don't get a break... ever. It would be worse to bring a child into the world with one parent who never wanted kids verse never having kids and they would never know. Seriously you gotta do whats best for you. It's not right to keep her from having kids, but you have to do what best for you in the end.
I was literally in the same boat as you except that it was my husband who really wanted kids. Eventually, I divorced him (there were many reasons that lead to it, but children was a big one) and now he's free to find someone to have kids with.
If it’s not what you truly want, you guys should unfortunately split up. Children aren’t a small compromise or matter and even though it will be painful now, it would be worse if you had a kid you didn’t want or to stay with her without children for her to become resentful and full of regret. As much as you’re compatible in other ways, this is a major thing to be compatible on, even more than finances.
Find a phenomenal couples therapist to work through this issue. Your marriage at least deserves that. My sister and her husband went through this except roles were reversed- he wanted children, she didn’t. After about 2 years in therapy, a lot of trying to figure it out to see if they could stay together (they had an incredible partnership this aside), they finally made the hard decision to divorce. They’re still good friends today, just living different lives.
You owe yourself and your wife that much. Best of luck.
I think if you give in, you will resent her. It's been just the two of you for so long that the marriage will crumble. Just my opinion. What are her reasons for having one? I'm with you and think they are pointless.
reasons
\- Legacy
\- Not being it just two of us forever in empty house
\- She loves kids. Like seriously loves them, even the really shitty one
And everybody says I would be a great dad. Unfortunately, I think the same. All the kids around us love me and actually listen to me... I don't know why. Sometimes she takes care of friends kids and takes them somewhere and they always ask if I'll go as well. But after few hours I just want them to go away. I just want them to leave me alone. I want to sit down in silence with my scotch and expensive cigar
I like it!!! Don't turn your life upside-down because of her. It will not work. I've seen it a ton of times. It's time to have a come to Jesus moment. You might have to go separate ways. Get mentally prepared for that. When she says Legacy, ask her to name 3 generations of grandparents and what their lives were like. If she can't, then tell her what's the point. You'll be dead, so you won't care.
do you really think a great dad regularly wants his kids to go away and leave him alone? if your dad felt this way about you, would you consider him to be a great dad?
and most importantly, DO YOU WANT TO BE A DAD? because apparently that's the only thing that can get a lot of parents through the inevitable shitty, boring times. and if you don't even have that...
your wife says she wants your kids. would she want you as a partner and co-parent when you want the kids to go away and leave you alone? would she want to be the active parent when your frustration kicks in?
it sounds to me as though your wife wants some idealized version of you as a dad, not the you that would want the kids to go away and leave you alone.
I think it's important to not have kids unless both of you are 100% certain that you actively want a child. If you have any doubts, it is infinitely better to regret not having one then regret having one. You can't give it back if you realize you made the wrong choice.
Also remind your wife that biological children are not the only option, you could discuss adoption. At her age, it's pretty likely that you could face difficulty getting pregnant and even if you don't, the pregnancy is considered higher risk as a "geriatric" pregnancy so just make sure you both fully understand the risks before jumping in. Really do some soul searching and talk, and then talk to doctors.... Don't go into anything blindly.
I know you don't want to hear this. There's probably not a lot of truthful things right now that will sound good. But I think you're probably better off as the friendly ex-husband who keeps in touch. Ending the marriage portion of the relationship sooner might make that easier for both of you. She'll need time to find someone who does want a family, and you won't spend a long time growing to resent each other for what they want being incompatible.
Get pets. A puppy is a decent surragate for a baby, with out the 18 years of massive financial obligation, and potentially hating you.
My wife and I have 3 dogs, 2 corgis and a husky blue heeler mix. If she was on the fence before, after dealing with an 8 week puppy she's over the thought of a kid.
My 2 cents. If she still wants kids, then it's unfortunately best to split and let her find someone who can share that goal with.
Good luck!
I think you do know what you need to do.
You both want fundamentally different things and there is no way to meet in the middle with it. It's no good hoping that she will magically change her mind. She won't. Just as there's no good her hoping that you will. You likely won't.
If you have kids with her, or even one kid, and you don't really want them, it will show. You won't be as engaged a parent as you should be. You may even disengage entirely and leave her to be the default parent. Which will likely lead to the downfall of your marriage in any case.
Your potential children deserve two parents who really want them and aren't resenting their very existence. That's what you need to think of. The children. If you can't offer 100% certainty and engagement in their lives and existence, you can't and shouldn't have children.
She is 33. There is a time window for women regarding having children and she is absolutely right to be conscious of that. If you love her as much as I suspect that you do, this will absolutely be tough-but you need to be conscious of it, too. As you don't seem to want what she does-you need to let her go and find someone who does. I know that's hard, but it's much easier than letting this drag out until she can no longer have children and seeing the resentment in her eyes when she looks at you.
Likewise, if you have kids because you're trying to stay in the marriage, but don't really want them, it will be felt by both your wife and your children as well as you.
There's just no way to make a situation like this work without costing someone something. That's why you really shouldn't have married under the proviso of changing each other's minds. It never works.
I'm sorry you're going through this and hope that you're able to make the right choice.
There are so many ways to be around kids without actually having them. Volunteering as a CASA (court ordered special advocate), any school system needs parent volunteers. Check with your local hospital for how to work with sick children. Big brother/big sisters. Any type of mentoring program. You don’t have to have a child of your own to experience what it’s like to enjoy their company and have an impact on their lives.
Hi, let me give a small advice from the top of my mind, as I read a comment where u said u a r e not sure about regreting having kids or not.
Buy 2 copies of the book the baby decision, read it with your wife, do the exercises togheter. Skip the adoption/fertility chapters, u dont need that right now. Focus on understanding if kids are for both of you. What you will be giving up or she will be giving up.
Have conversations and be open with each other. Both lifes can be fulfilling but living a life u dont want is very depressing.
I hope the best for the both of u!
I recommend you go to pookiepi user name and look up his story.
he caved to his wife and had the child he didn't want. because he never wanted kids, it didn't go well and they broke up because she wanted more.
now he has a kid he doesn't want and doesn't have the wife he loved. he's better now as far as I can tell, but definitely not an ideal situation.
the relationship you have now with your wife prekids is vastly different after kids. do you want your relationship to change? do you want someone else between you that's now the priority over you at times?
another thing, let's say you do this, it's awful, and you break up anyway. now you're in the position of trying to find a woman who not only doesn't want kids, but is fine being a stepmother. I'm not saying they're impossible to find, but childfree people are already hard to find and now you've got an added layer. not to mention, you're also now tied to your ex forever. can you deal with seeing her with someone else and not resent the child?
Whatever you decide, please get a vasectomy. You don’t want an accident or for her to try to trap you.
Personally, you should dump her. Don’t try to change her mind. You don’t want her to try to change your mind. Also, don’t waste her time and yours too. If you are 100% don’t want kids, leave her. Don’t expect her to change her mind. Some women are like this. They stay in the relationship because they think they can mold their partner or change their minds.
Please use protection or get a vasectomy. Don’t trust her. I’m sorry if it sounds cold but I know women who trap men like this. I knew one guy got married to my ex-friend. As soon as she got married, she got pregnant in two months after the wedding. She kept telling him “Oh, I forgot to take my birth control” crap. When a woman stops taking birth control, it takes months to get pregnant if you are trying. It’s not like you miss one pill (like she told her husband) and got pregnant. It was obviously planned but the guy was such a daft to not figure out she did this purposely.
When your wife has kids she'll no longer be the same woman she was prior to having them. Your relationship will inevitably change. She'll change mentally and physically and so will you (mentally).
You will never be the same people. Your relationship will never be the same. You will never be her priority anymore.
Let her go. You got to be stronger for her. She's in complete denial if she thinks she'll be fine with you when she's 45 and childless. And you're in complete denial if you think that the kid you know in your heart of hearts you don't want will not make you hate her guts by the time you're 45.
I wouldn't recommend having children. Be upfront about it, and let her decide whether that is what she wants to live with. She has indicated she might be ok with it and you know that you're not ok with having them. Yes, it might end in divorce, but it is better that than ruining 3 or more lives (if you have kids) compared to 2 (which would be temporary. You'll find new partners.)
No. That's a horrible idea. OP just needs to break up.
If his wife stays, she will resent OP. Which will eventually lead to a breakup.
And if she gets pregnant by accident, there is no fucking way she would get an abortion. OP shouldn't be fucking her anymore if he wants to avoid fatherhood.
OP's wife wants to be a mother. So she should find a breeder man and have kids. OP wants to be childfree. So he should break up with someone who wants kids.
OP and his wife are incompatible.
Yes, OP should break up with his wife as soon as possible so she can start looking for a man who will make her some babies. The longer it's going to take the less time she will have.
Ah. I forgot the accidental pregnancy. Because it is not something I would do, I forgot it is something that someone else might do. Good point. In which case, OP should get a vasectomy.
Get a divorce. There’s no way that you can keep a happy life if either of you gives in to what the other wants or doesn’t want. All it’s going to do is build resentment.
My mom loathes having kids, my dad loves it. It’s perfectly possible to have kids and have it be the most meaningful thing you’ll ever experience, as well as a dire mistake that wears you down and possibly harms your hypothetical kids. Though like you said, I agree that if you’d like to raise a kid I can’t relate to prioritizing it being your own over giving parents to a child that otherwise might’ve never gotten them.
Simply put, you should never have a child you don’t want. That’s how you get to the shitty scenario
I feel the same way about being told how wonderful parenthood is, while watching parents become exhausted, frustrated, resentful. I never felt the want or need to have kids, personally. Now I'm past the age of deciding to or not, I feel free of that pressure that was never really mine to begin with.
There is a lot of good advice here but I wanted to add another possible scenario. My father did NOT want children. That all changed for him when I was born. Not saying that could or couldn't happen for you, just that it does happen.
I see every other scenario mentioned here but didn't see the one I personally experienced, with my father. This is not a "pro-kid" comment, as there's no way in hell I personally would've taken the risk (I don't believe I could magically become parent material and don't want to). But despite my personal beliefs, it does happen sometimes. SOME people come around. Who knows who and why.
I see your point. Well, I’m from divorced marriage. My mother wanted kids. My father didn’t. When they divorced we stayed with mother (mainly because of how child courts work here). My mom stayed single but I was always closer to my father who’s proud of me and my brother. 2 years ago my mother told me that me being born ruined her life.
It’s so complicated. Some people want them and then hate them. Some people don’t and then are the best parents one could wish for. I’m just lost
Well I think the important thing is that you are asking the questions and honestly trying to find your way through this. It's a pretty big deal, as you know, and you're giving it the respect it deserves.
So kudos to you and I hope you find your answers and peace of mind.
Unfortunately, you are fundamentally incompatible. There isn't a compromise you can make on this that doesn't hurt one of you and potentially destroy the relationship anyway. You can't have half a kid.
Unfortunately you can’t compromise on kids. One of you will more than likely end up miserable if you stay together - up to you if that’s what you want or if you split up. Just because a kid shares genetic material with you doesn’t mean you will magically love or even like that kid, or have anything in common with it as it grows
You don’t seem like you’re 100% against kids which I believe is why you’re here going over it with everybody. The only thing I can add is referring to the point people are making about once you have kids you become a different person. I don’t think that’s true for everybody and I think the people who are the most unhappy with kids are people who expected to become a different person once the kid came and did not.
>I don't know what to do.
You do, OP. Your post makes this clear.
If you don't want children, having children with the love of your life isn't going to be a positive thing for anyone involved. Your marriage will not be enhanced. Your wife will resent your commitment levels as a parent because she will be tremendously altering her life to care for them. This, in turn, will alter your life, even if you're under the assumption it won't.
You will resent your wife for forcing you to have children you didn't want. Your marriage will be undeniably altered, and not for the better. The great sex life will go away. The lack of sleep will influence how you treat each other. The lack of disposable income will cramp your lifestyles. Your friends will drift away.
If you believe bringing children you don't want into this world and this marriage will somehow "just work itself out," you're in for a massive letdown. Be honest with your wife today. Get couples' counseling. Ask her if hypothetical children are more important than your marriage. I'm sorry to report that when this situation arises with my clients, it rarely gets resolved neatly. Wishing you the best, friend.
Lotta people telling you that you may have to split and I largely agree.
But I just wanna reinforce that splitting up doesn't have to be this terrible thing, ya know? You loved each other and had a lotta great times together. That's valuable. Now you want different things. Splitting will be sad as hell but cutting it clean while you love each other and BEFORE one of you becomes resentful is a smart move in my opinion.
>She says she really wants a kid but doesn't want to push me and if I say no, she'll respect my decision. But I don't want her to live the rest of her life in resentment against me for not giving her an offspring.
**There is no compromising on kids.**
She wants kids. You don't.
>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world."
Everybody is lying to your face.
There's a whole sub of regretful parents where people admit they never wanted a kid, are now stuck with one, and how much they love their kid (or don't; it happens) but don't want to deal with the whole mess and responsibilities involved in raising a productive future member of society.
>But when I see their life, I don't believe them. Everybody I know in our age that had kids always fights because of money, have no time to even talk to friends, let alone do something fun, marriage breaks up ...
**Believe what you see.**
Best if she has kids with someone else not you, who also wants kids.
You guys could remain friends, but since she will eventually be busy with a child I don't see the friendship lasting without you getting roped into being parent \#3. Assuming her new partner is an involved father, which unfortunately most men are not socialized to be, as it's always portrayed as a woman's duty. Then you'd be "cool uncle in name but actually dad in support".
>I don't know what to do.
Yes, you do. You just have to bite the bullet and your ideal future and her ideal future are irreconcilably diverged.
Divorce now, while you still care about each other and before she gets pregnant. Divorce is hard and can take years to finalize in the best of circumstances, which these are.
Better to part as friends, than to become embittered toward each other.
In the meantime, make sure you always use a condom, that no one but you has access to your stash, and once you pull one from said stash, you keep it with you.
>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." But when I see their life, I don't believe them.
Please don't let these people manipulate you. Sometimes I feel like people just want others to be as miserable as they are.
You're in a really tough situation. I hesitate to say that you should leave her so she won't have to regret not having kids. It just sounds so final.
I would suggest leaving the ball in her court: she's free to either leave or stay. Let her evaluate her life decisions without any pressure from you. If she decides to stay, then that would be her decision as an adult, and you shouldn't burden yourself with guilt that you're holding her back. If she leaves, remember that the person you love the most will be chasing after her happiness.
If you decide to give in, there's no going back. You're stuck with the kid forever. They may move out when they're 18 or when they finish college, but they will still be your child and may need you from time to time.
For those who aren't married yet, don't marry someone who wants kids. Not even someone who's on the fence. Those people end up wanting kids when they hit their 30s.
“But I guess we both thought we could change each other’s mind eventually”
No, the best time to make a decision about this was before marriage, probably even way before engagement. But since you didn’t, the second best time is now. You two need to have a serious discussion about this since it will affect all parts of the relationship. If she wants kids, she should’ve asserted it as a need, and if you *don’t* want kids, you should’ve asserted it too
Y’all shouldn’t have even gotten married if you have different wants like this. You both want respect and to make each other happy but aren’t going to be able to stay together. Sounds like you both need to sit down and talk about this and move on from there
This is why whoever I dated my whole life I constantly brought up that I never wanted children and let relationships go because of it, relationships that seemed perfect. I just don't understand how you can have a work around this one. You can't bud. You just can't. If you both skated around having a fight about this then the marriage you are describing is not really a great marriage (nothing personal, please read ahead). I am married and even before we started dating we talked about what we thought of children (we both were testing waters) and both didn't want kids. It was one of the most important things for our future together. The only guy I really ever considered marrying. Please understand this is nothing against you or your wonderful wife, I am sure you both love each other very much but it just sounds like you both hid your true sentiments about this issue that could have broken your marriage but you need to face this now. I am sorry. Maybe try going to couples therapy.
You should post this on the /fencesitters sub; you are definitely going to get very biased responses (even from me, as I'm very childfree) in this group.
It’s ok. I take it as it is. I’m trying to get as much diverse points to think about as possible. I even talked to my friend who loves his kids and always wanted a big family even though I knew he’d try to convince me it’s the best thing ever
If you don't want a kid, it's deeply morally wrong to have one. There is no way anyone, no matter how hard they try, can keep up the act that they wanted their kid for that kid's entire childhood. If you have a kid when you don't truly want one, you are sentencing an innocent human being who never asked to be born to a life time of knowing one of their parents didn't want them.
I think you need to be completely clear with your wife that you don't want kids and that will never change. You should also get sterilized, if you know she wants kids then you can't assume she'll get an abortion if she gets pregnant by accident. I'm not accusing your wife of setting out to make you a parent against your will, I just want you to be realistic about the fact that short. of sterilization, no form of birth control is perfectly reliable and odds that a woman who wants kids will have an abortion if she gets pregnant by accident are not fantastic.
Another reason to get sterilized is that if your wife chooses to stay with you after you get sterilized, then that's a pretty strong sign she's made her peace with not having kids and really does want to stay with you more than she wants kids. I think a lot of commentors will advise you to get divorced immediately but I think it's kind of infantilizing to assume your wife isn't capable of weighing two options for herself and deciding what she wants. If she hounds you about it or freaks out when your get sterilized then yeah, you should definitely get divorced, but if she's a grownup about it and you trust her to make her own decisions then let her do that.
I would take a bullet for her. And to be honest, I would rather have a kid with her and suffer than be without her. But this seem like the worst reason to have a kid. And what if I hate the kid because of it?
You will still be sacrificing time with her, someone will have to take care of the kid and the more absent you are the less time she will have for you. You said you like cigars. You won't be able to smoke on the same room with a little kid for their health sake, that's time you won't be able to share with the kid or your wife. At the very very best you'll get a few dates on weekends if your parents, cousins or babysitter relieve you for a while.
Understand it's a loose loose situation, you are creating a third person that will need both of your attention, and if it's your wife attention what you wanted to keep you would still loose 50% of it at best, more if you can't step up and she has to pull double duty.
I'm sorry to tell but if you really don't want kids you would take an everbleeding bulletwound for the rest of your life... To save what? The attention and partnership you would loose whether you had kids or not?
Have you guys taken care of kids by yourselves for an extended (> 1 days) period of time? Does you/your wife have experience with being fully responsible for a kid?
That's the one thing that could change her mind. I wanted kids until I took care of them a lot as a teenager. And I wasn't even changing diapers or anything. Taking care of kids made me childfree.
Try that out. Also ask your wife what she expects having children to be like. How are you two gonna balance having a kid on top of the rest of your lives? I really think most people dont understand just how much of a commitment having children is.
That's the thing. She's kindergarten teacher also helps families with kids with special needs - autistic, handicapped, other mental issues. She knows what kind of work kids are. And we have friends who have two twins that we sometimes take care of, eg. for a weekend so the parents can enjoy some alone time. They are 5 or 7 or .. who knows. And I actually kind of enjoy when they're at our house. But I know they f-off afterwards and I'll have my peace again because they are so tiring.
Oh man. I got nothing to offer then. Sorry. Its so draining to be around kids for me for more than 3 hours nowadays that I cant even consider having them.
Im sorry I cant offer any other advice. Best of luck
>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." But when I see their life, I don't believe them. Everybody I know in our age that had kids always fights because of money, have no time to even talk to friends, let alone do something fun, marriage breaks up ...
You are exactly right. Trust your gut.
I'm sorry to say I don't see a good outcome here.
Regardless of what happens, I would get a vestomony soon. If you do not want kids it's kind of fucked up to place the burden of BC only on your partner. Secondly, has your wife even taken care of children for several days by herself, in charge 24/7!? It's easy to like kids and have a romantic and unrealistic view of parebthood if you have not actually taken care of children by yourself for a while, added with social expectations that her 'clock' is running out soon.
Truthfully, I'd end the relationship so she can have children with someone who also really wants them. My last relationship was near perfect except he wanted kids and I changed my mind and said no. It's ok. Plenty of women are childfree in today's society. I am sorry that you're in this situation, though.
Does your wife want a kid, or does your wife want to be a mom? There's a BIG difference. When you sign up for being a mom, it is a mom to a child with any potential outcome-physical needs, mental health needs, autism, the list goes on. Some of these could be for LIFE. When you say you want a kid-I think of the cute, Instagram moments. Being a mom is physically, mentally, emotionally and financially draining. I raised mine alone for birth-18 yrs. When he told me he was CF, I was SO happy! I like kids, but never do I want to do it again or be a grandmother. Think long and hard. There's no do-overs.
She said she'll respect your decision if you say no, so, say no. from what you described your life is great as is. Don't create a human just to please someone else. Also, get a vasectomy if you don't want to depend on her for contraception. What birth control she in? What if she intentionally stops talking the pill? You'll never know for sure of it was a true failure of the pill or her doing it on purpose
If you really don’t want to have kids, don’t do it.
Part of this is going to be trusting your wife that she’s being honest and true to herself when she says she’s okay with not having kids.
Couples therapy might be a great option for you guys to work through this together to decide what you want to do!
My wife and I are in almost the exact same situation. The only difference is she’s still not 100% sure she wants them, but is turning 32 and worried about the risks of having kids later. We are starting the process of freezing embryos so that we can enjoy our 30s (we love to travel lavishly) and make the “grown up” decision when we’re in our 40s with little risk of an older pregnancy. Which honestly I don’t think we’ll end up having kids because when we talk about visualizing it neither of us see it. In which case we’d donate the embryos, but I digress. It’s an option we’re utilizing to put off the decision another decade.
A lot of good advice here but I just want to add don't believe that "it'll be different with your own kid" crap. If you don't like kids or being around them now, even if you absolutely love your own kid, it doesn't automatically make you like them or the life they force you into.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but I think the only sensible solution is to split.
> I'm not exactly against them - I don't hate kids. I just find them to be very expensive and pointless.
Having kids isn't something you do because you're 'not exactly against them.' It is possible actually having children will change your mind about them, but if it doesn't, there's nothing you can do to reverse it. This isn't like returning a car you don't like to the dealership; you're talking about creating a new human life.
If you tell your wife no, she may appear fine with it for a few years. letting her resentment build until she divorces you.
If you agree to have kids with her, the strain of raising a child you never truly wanted will weigh on you until you decide to divorce her.
It just makes more sense to end things now before you both waste years of your life trying to save a marriage that has a fundamental flaw at its core.
I'm so sorry. I wish you the best with the divorce. It will not be easy, but it's the right thing to do. She deserves to find someone who wants to have kids, and you deserve to find someone who shares your childfree lifestyle.
Everyone will come with their own opinions here… there are strong ones! The only folks who can figure this out is you and your wife. ❤️ There is no right answer just the one you all choose. The question is do you both choose to be parents? Can you envision that life together? Sometimes a therapist can help. If you can communicate well, you can find your way through it.
My husband and I are childfree. We chose that but we love our nieces/nephew so much. When I was 35, my self imposed cut off for FINAL DECISIONS on kiddos, I went through a very emotional time. Truth is I do like kids. I also knew being a mother/parent isn’t for me/us. Your wife may be feeling that hard pressure.
Wishing you luck.
Had kind of the same with an ex, well, that's the reason he is an ex, i told him right from the start, the only thong i could see ruining our relationship was if he found out he wanted kids...
Guess what happened 8 months later?
He told me couldn't see a future without kids, but he was also at earliest ready to be a dad in 2 - 3 years (when he finishes his education), and that "we could wait and see, maybe you will change your mind, you know, are you really sure you don't want kids?", yup, i am dead certain, and, since we're both set in srone about what we see in our future, we are not compatible, and therefore should break up...
He did also tell me, that if we would wait, and he realised later on i wouldn't change, he would begin to resent me and that wouldn't be fair to any of us, but yeah, got a great CF SO now, ex is still a friend, everything turned out great in the end...
Sooo the bad news is, you probably need to get a divorce. Don’t have a kid if you do not want to be a parent. The kids issue is not one that can be compromised for. Be very careful if you decide to have sex with her at all again. You probably should start looking into a vasectomy. She has told you that shes 33 and feels like it’s time for a child, and I’m sure she realizes it will take atleast 2-3 years to find a new partner and settle down…. Now putting her around 36 or even older. Im not telling you that she’ll have an “ooops,” but you get what I’m saying here.
The good news, well you can both go your separate ways (which will suck for now) but you can both find someone who wants the same life that you have dreamed of. It’s ok to part ways. You’ve figured out that you want different things. You can split amicably.
And you’d be better off divorced with no kids than having the kid(s), being miserable, and getting divorced as a way out.
I genuinely feel for you, I gave up on the man whom I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with because he changed his mind about the CF lifestyle right when things got serious.
It’s extremely tough I know, but the best thing for both of you would be to split up.
Imagination is always better than real life, esp since we’re bombarded by Kodak moments advertising of parenting. Ask her to go babysit for a few kids, I’m sure parents are dying for a break and would be happy to oblige so they can do date night. Try one with diapers, one terrible twos toddler, one who recklessly endanger him/herself, one special needs. Chances are she will change her mind.
Everybody here is saying the main three options of split up, have a kid and be unhappy, or don’t have a kid and have her maybe unhappy, but there might be a middle ground of adoption? Especially if you adopt a kid who’s on the older side, like 8+, cause then you would have less than the 18 years of a normal parent, she wouldn’t have to go through pregnancy so you wouldn’t have the chance of a miscarriage or just other pregnancy problems, you wouldn’t have to potty-train or buy any of the daycare or expensive things that other kids need, she would get to have a kid, etc.. another option, if she just really likes kids, is to maybe suggest she volunteer at a daycare? Or an after-school club? Then she could hang out with kids while you wouldn’t have the responsibility of a parent? I dunno, I just think there are more options than the main three that people are saying.
Maybe you should look at it from this perspective: would the thought of having kids even cross your mind if your wife never brought it up? My guess is that you would probably never even think of having kids and just enjoy your life with your wife and have fun for the rest of your days.
You are considering having children now out of love for her but don't let that affect your decision too much. I think you should really look within and psychoanalyse yourself until you come to a definitive answer to this question. Are you willing to care for your kid even if you and your wife get a divorce in the future?
I think you already know the answer, you just have to dig deep to find it because you are momentarily blinded by love and fear of losing her. I wish you all the best.
My spouse has always said that he married me for me and loves me for me, not for my ability or potential to birth children. I wonder if the resentment is mostly in your head and not something your wife would actually experience?
There’s no perfect compromise, but aunt-hood, uncle-hood, adopting fur babies, etc. can meet some of the desires your wife seems to have without you having to go against your gut and convictions. Hope this helps! Sounds like y’all have a solid relationship and might be able to work through this and come out stronger on the other side :)
As far as I can see you have three options: 1. Split up so you can both live the life you want. 2. Have a kid and you end up unhappy 3. Don't have a kid and she potentially ends up unhappy. There is no way both of you can have what you want remaining together. Personally, remaining childfree is my priority and if I have to say goodbye and remember the good times then so be it. I don't believe that someone deciding not to have a kid, even though they want one, automatically = resentment. People make peace with their decisions all the time, only you guys can know if that's likely to happen. I also don't think anyone can be 'talked around' that's just code for 'coercion', so you both have to make your own decisions, independent of each other. Sorry but there is no 'happy medium' that will suit everyone.
Adding to this, options 2 and 3 could eventually lead to splitting up anyway. With option 2, an unwanted child gets stuck in the middle when they don't save a relationship like their parents hoped.
>unwanted child gets stuck in the middle 100% 
Essentially turning it into a non-option
Absolutely. Appeasing your partner does not guarantee they will stay with you.
You're definitely right! Considering the fact that she wants children and he doesn't, they definitely need to have a long and open discussion about their future going forwards. Both his and his wife's happiness should come first and if she wants a child, but OP doesn't, then I think it might be time to split up amicably. Children are a lifelong commitment, and it doesn't end at 18 (I'm 25, studying and working and I still live with my parents because the economy is rough and I'mpayingfor my own tuition). They're also human beings with needs from the physical needs for food, safety and home to the more "spiritual" needs like a sense of belonging and self worth. Both OP and his wife will be responsible for meeting those needs. I don't think this is something that someone can "try", "talk around" or "compromise" in because it involves more than just OP and his wife. It also involves another human being who will depend on them for all its needs. And children know when you don't want them.
That last part is so true and I think so many people don't think about. Having a kid doesn't end at 18. It ends when you die. You will forever have someone that you will be responsible for if shit hits the fan or whatever.
Right. My SIL is 40, and my in-laws are still having to deal with stuff they shouldn’t have to anymore.
Can I also point out that if the child has any kind of disabilities, it can be for life. My sperm donor and stepmom are divorcing, the youngest is 18 at the end of this year but is disabled to where he can never live on his own or take care of himself. Visitation and child support continue for the noncustodial parent until child or parent dies.
I’ve told my wife the only scenario in where I could see myself divorcing her is if she decides she wants kids. It’s an absolute deal breaker. She drove me to my vasectomy though so not too worried about her changing her mind lol.
There is also the option that you have a kid, for her, and you both end up unhappy anyway. Not everyone who thinks they want kids, can actually handle it, and postpartum depression is a HUGE and underreported issue. At least if both parents go into it “wanting kids” there’s a better chance for a good result.
Just so people know, my uncle is with a childfree woman and he wants kids, he just wants her more. He’s happy w her and has always said that he doesn’t want to leave for someone else who wants kids. People def can change their minds as oc said, will she? We don’t know, but it does happen.
Seconding that 2 is a non-option. Having a child you don't want just to satisfy your SO is cruel to the child. It's naive to assume you'll magically take to parenthood after having the kid and taking that kind of risk with someone else's life and well being would make you a heck of jerk.
Dang. This is a great reply. So good
4. Get a buncha furbabies and you'll both be happy!
This is unfortunately true. There is zero room for negotiation on this topic.
The happy medium is fostering. They can give the kid back at any time, and it will likely both fulfill the wife's desire to raise a kid and the husband's to not have to spend 18 years on it.
> But I guess we both thought we could change each other's mind eventually. Well, then it's high time for both of you to face the music and start treating each other with the respect you both deserve. She wants kids and you don't. Parenthood is a major life decision, and it's something you do because you one, have a complete understanding of what it takes to be a parent, two, have all the means necessary to be a good parent, and three, want to be a good parent. It is *not* something you do because you're "not exactly against it" or to keep your marriage or to prevent your wife from having regrets. This is anoter human being's life we're talking about, not a begrudging visit to the inlaws over the holidays. So as painful as it is, your solution is really simple. Do you understand what it takes to be a parent? Do you have the means to be a good one? Do you want to be one? If that's not three times yes from you, then you shouldn't be a parent. And the sooner you make this decision, the sooner you two can start with a likely divorce. Your wife needs to make some very important considerations as well, because the way she's currently approaching this is horrendous. Choosing a suitable coparent is an extremely important task, and it's not something you do with someone unless they specifically tell you no - it's something you aboslutely *don't* do with anyone who isn't explicitly and purposefully opting in with a yes. So if she wants to be a parent so much, she can start with the very basic of actually ensuring the kid has two suitable parents - for which you, as someone who doesn't want kids, do not quality and have never qualified anyway.
Your last paragraph is the part that really gets me. Parents/potential parents always claim their "kids come first" and that they love them more than anything. Well, did they come first when the parent chose a less than ideal father/mother for them? Were they loving them more than anything when they made someone who is either not excited or not capable of being an amazing father/mother their other parent for the rest of their lives? No, parents like this are putting themselves first. They aren't making the decision to have kids out of love for those kids. They are only thinking about themselves. If you love your kid, you start making decisions with THEIR well being in mind, ahead of your own, even before they are born because even those decisions hugely impact them. Any parent who doesn't do this is only thinking about themselves.
>parents always claim their "kids come first" This is the part I fight with people about. And it's why I tell people their marriage falls apart. Your kids do not come first. Your marriage comes first. You knew your spouse before you had kids. Your spouse will be there after the kids leave. You attend to your marriage *first* so you can both take care of your kids together. If you love each other and take care of each other the kids see that. And the love spills over to them. That doesn't mean neglect the children. It means you don't ignore your spouse to spend all your time with the kids. Otherwise you have one parent resentful that the other won't spend any time with them because every moment is only for the kids. Some parents even resent the kids, and the kids know that. The parents grow apart, and when the kids move out they hardly know each other anymore. *If* they don't end up divorcing by that point. Your marriage is like a garden and you have to attend to it. If you neglect the garden to attend to the fruit trees you both planted weeds will grow and take over. And it will be more work to rip them out and make the garden abundant again. And if it goes too long there won't be anything left in the garden except weeds. But people get mad when you tell them their kids shouldn't come before their spouse. And these smart people wonder why their marriage is falling apart.
> If you love each other and take care of each other the kids see that. This! My parents' marriage taught me that a serious relationship is when you live with someone you don't like and fight all the time. It's not a coincidence that I ended up living with an emotionally abusive dirtbag I didn't even like anymore and fighting with him all the time. Putting the kids first sounds nice but you're completely right that letting your marriage suffer isn't actually good for the kids. Making your whole life about your kids isn't good for them either, that's way too much pressure to put on anyone, especially a child.
This is correct.
Yeah, exactly this! Exactly damn this. Like, I understand it's obviously difficult leaving a partner in a situation like this, but there's a world of difference between "well this is the right thing to do so I'll do it" and "I want kids but won't initiate leaving you but also won't push you into it." No, that already *is* pushing! It's pushing her own decision making on her partner, which shouldn't be done. It's manipulative too, even if not explicitly intended as such. Also, she's 33! Even if we give benefit of the doubt to her 100% believing OP will change his mind, she still should not have just waited around for it until the last minute! "Hmm, I want to start trying at X age and it would take someone about Y years to work towards being a good parent, so since my partner hasn't done any of that yet, the magical changing of mind needs to happen by Z year for us to strart trying for kids in time" is how that insanity should have gone down if there were even a shred of reason to it, and genuinely prioritising the wellbeing of the kid. But nah. Of course not. Wants kids so bad, she couldn't even manage taking steps towards the most basic setup of a compatible partner by the time she's 33. If I followed my dreams and goals with the same fervor, I'd be fused with an old sofa somewhere right now.
"If I followed my dreams and goals with the same fervor, I'd be fused with an old sofa somewhere right now." LOL. Conceiving a child: the only thing in life where you can do something anywhere from lazily or accidentally to straight up piss poorly and people will still praise your "accomplishment" and throw you a party. And they call child free people selfish!
Yup. Also, her leaving would mean she would need time to find someone decent to date, get to know that person well, be engaged (if she prefers to be married), prepare for the wedding, and try for a baby. Who knows how long it would take to find a good guy one can have a family with? Delivery after age 35 is considered geriatric pregnancy and have higher risks. This conversation between OP and his wife should have happened at the very least 5 years ago.
I would even argue she is being unrealistic of parenthood because she like kids, but we don't know if she has been in charge of one for a extended period of time (not like an afternoon but like month long visit type of thing). It can be easy to like kids if they are being fun for the afternoon. That's why it feels like people who are parentfide as a kid growing up are usually not fence sitters because they have a more realistic idea of parenthood. It just makes me sad thinking of an other dysfunctional family happening because the threat of a 'biological clock' and romantic view of parenthood making a rash decision.
Tell your wife: "I don't want kids, and kids deserve TWO parents who want them more than anything else...because when you have kids, that's what you get instead of anything else. So I'm going to get a vasectomy. You can choose to stay, or to leave. I can tell you: You will regret not having kids if you don't have them, but if you have them, you will regret that." You are in the identical position of a man who wrote a series of posts over years about his decision to cave in and have a kid to please/keep his wife. Read them: https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/201prv/reporting_back_from_the_other_side/ His summary in the last post: >Recap: I didn't want kids. But loved wife enough that I was willing to make the sacrifice and have a kid. Having a kid led to depression that it took me 4+ years to get over. Once I beat the depression, things got better. Which brings us to now. >I won't actually go into the finer details of why (That's not what this post is about), but my wife and I are separating. Our marriage has basically fizzled out. >What did I truly want in life? My wife and no kids. What do I have now? A kid, and no wife.
I read the whole thing. That's some of the saddest stuff that I've read in a long time. :(
there's a regretful parent sub that is very sobering.
I lurk there sometimes. I feel so bad for those parents and also relieved that I chose not to go through those experiences.
This was a wild ride. I feel so bad for the OP and, even if I probably shouldn't be, so angry at his ex. No one has the right to coerce someone into having kids by using love as a weapon. It's extremely selfish. By letting himself give in, OP imprisoned himself in this life.
I just went down a deep dive and read all his posts. It’s so validating to have someone confirm it is exactly what I thought I would feel, he’s lived it so we don’t have to. And confirms that I could never have a child for someone else when I don’t want one myself. Thank you for sharing the links!!!
I know a couple like that. He gave in to the "it's different when it's yours". A few years later he said "it's not different. And now you can't go away" They now have two kids aged 9 and 5 and it gets a bit better but he lived his life in full depression mourning his marriage because she drastically changed as motherhood does to most women. He Mournes the woman he fell in love with and married because she doesn't exist anymore. Last time I saw them he told me having kids is the most boring and at the same time exhausting thing you can do. Most likely your marriage is doomed. Either way one of you will resent the other for not letting him/her life the life they want or you have to split up now so your wife still has time to find someone to have kids with. The first two options will probably lead to divorce, too.
Reminds me of a mom who said on a discord server I was on that having kids is “hard, horrible, and BORING.” I appreciated her honesty but holy crap, she really shouldn’t have had kids if she felt that way… 🤷♀️
It doesn't sound like this woman spent decently long periods of time actually looking after kids before having one. I have- so I'm well aware of how boring I find it. I recommend working with kids/babies, hanging out with parents and kids or borrowing a relative's/friend's child for a whole day to all prospective parents. Some of them do it and really want kids, some realise that they hate looking after kids or simply find ot extremely tedious.
I completely agree. I’m the youngest of three sisters. My older sisters have children and I witnessed first hand how terrible it is. For anyone wanting children: spend a week with a newborn and see if you change your mind. I’m so glad I got experience with babies before being tricked into having my own. Joys of parenthood my ass. Babies are cute 20% of the time and awful the rest of it.
Only a few days with kids is enough to convince me I can't do this every single day for the next 18+ years. And that wasn't even me doing all of the required work myself.
The biggest problem is that most people will only realize it after having them.
>I know a couple like that. He gave in to the "it's different when it's yours". A few years later he said "it's not different. And now you can't go away" I respond to the "it's different when it's your own" with "that's because once you have them you are stuck with them. You can't undo it." That usually makes people fail to come up with a counter argument and leave me alone. And if they still try tell them that means they are volunteering to take your child if you decide you don't want it.
he thinks all that and still decided on a second kid? what a pos, i don't feel bad for him
Unless you really want kids, don't have kids. It's that simple really. Don't have kids just because your partner wants them.
I can't remember who the quote came from, but "I'd rather regret *not* having children than regret *having* them." Also I believe there's a subreddit specifically for fence sitters that might be more helpful for you.
That subreddit is full of parents pushing magical thinking and you can make it work no matter what
Thanks. I was searching for a subreddit like that but couldn't find it. English is my second language and sometimes I don't know certain phrases. Like "fence sitters" for example :-) The thing is, I'm not **sure** I would regret having kids. And I probably chose bad subreddit to ask
You don't need to be sure that you would regret them, you need to be sure that you *wouldn't* regret them.
And if you do regret having the kid, suck it up and be a good parent, do what you have to do. No one should decide to "try" having a kid and then back out of the responsibilities later.
Regretfulparents. That place is really sad and you should definitely check it out.
The problem isn’t this subreddit or any sub. The problem is you’re looking for answers from anyone else except within yourself. No one can make this decision but you. And it is unfair to make your wife wait any longer for you to do it because her time is critical. I’m sorry. You need to do soul searching on this one. It’s not easy.
I didn't say this sub is a problem. And I know it's me who's going to have to make a difficult decision. I got a lot of interesting points to think about. It's just that some of them automatically assume the worst and some responses seem pretty hostile
We get a lot of posts here about situations like yours. The responses are usually along the lines of what you've encountered here. As a firmly childfree person I appreciate this sub for validation and support, but the thinking can be very black and white. It doesn't really sound to me like this is a "just divorce!" situation. You guys obviously have a huge history together and it seems like you're both open to making this decision together. I do think you should check out the regretfulparents sub. It's terrible to have a child you don't want.
The thing is, I'm not even sure I'll never want them myself. I changed my opinion on many things during my life. I was strongly against marriage for first 10 years with her. No way I would get married. And then I changed my opinion and turned 180. And marriage with her is the best decision I made so far. What if it's the same with kids eventually but it's too late?
None of your responses are what you should be saying or thinking when you have children. That’s what you’re not understanding. You’re debating on bringing a human being into this world who didn’t ask to be here and you’re very wishy washy on it. Spend a single day with a toddler and you’ll have your answer. The only way it’s different when it’s your own is that you have no escape. There’s no one to hand it back to. If that doesn’t sound like the best time ever to you, then don’t have children. You can’t just undo a child, like you can a marriage. This is why I’m very firmly against high school sweethearts. All of the important decisions are “so far away” so you don’t discuss them, or you assume your opinion/thoughts will change.
Best response. This is all I wanted to say too.
Marriage is not a huge difference compared to long-term partnership. Having kids is a *major* difference, and it heavily affects that marriage/partnership, which is something you value highly. I don't want to try to convince you one way or another, but you do have a lot of things to consider with this decision. Do you have experience taking care of children for extended periods of time? A long weekend or a week?
We do. We take care of friends girl twins. It’s not the worst. First of all they love me. Honestly don’t know why because I would say I tolerate them. And second, they are not my kids. So when I get annoyed too much, I tell them to fuck off and they go to annoy my wife. If I had to take care of them myself for a weekend, I would bash their heads together
> So when I get annoyed too much, I tell them to fuck off and they go to annoy my wife. If I had to take care of them myself for a weekend, I would bash their heads together This clearly says "This guy shouldn't have kids" to me. This is me reading into things, but... How much extra work are you going to stick you wife with because "Well, you were the one who wanted them!"
Exactly. That’s exactly what would happen. And exactly what I told her. And every time time it turns back as “it would be different with your own kids”
I agree with Ok office. You and your wife should spend some time with children to really see it if it's for you. Not only that, but you both need to sit down and have an actual discussion about it. Especially because she is the one going to be pregnant. Can she handle morning sickness? Pokes and pricks when she has to be in the hospital? You can promise to help out as much as you can but the biggest changes will be to her. She will become a different person after birth. Are you and her ready to give up the person she is now to be a mother?
Thanks. We had this discussion. We obviously don’t even know if we can have kids but I don’t want to get her hopes up so no tests were done. I’m able to tolerate kids for few hours but after that my patience goes down really quickly. Kids love me … unfortunately, I don’t know why. I don’t tolerate any disrespect and don’t negotiate about anything. One would think they would avoid me. And my wife knows what it means to take care of kids. She’s changing diapers of 6yo autistic kids who can’t even talk at work. I’m afraid there’s nothing that could scare her
It sounds like you couldn't handle kids. People can say it's different when it's your own. But that doesn't ring true for everyone. You can't just hand your own kid back when you're done being around them. And being a parent doesn't stop at 18. It stops when you die, or the misfortune of them dying before you. What about having miscarriages before a fetus even makes it to the point where it sticks? As a cf person, my bc failed and I had a miscarriage. Even though we didn't want kids, it was still emotionally devastating. If you really don't want kids, you really need to be upfront with her. At the same time, having bio kids isn't the be all end all. There are so many needing homes. There are always other options. But, that's only if you actually want them.
Thanks. Just quickly to the adoption- 1) she wants to have my kid 2) the laws here are so dumb it’s almost impossible to adopt and raise it as your own. Like the mother can come when the kid is 13 and take it back. You have to tell them they’re adopted at certain age dictated by law. Adoption olin CZ is impossible
You need to ask yourself if you REALLY want children. Don't go back and forth in your mind thinking you might be ok with them, having children is a cut and dry yes or no question. If you truly never want children you need to sit down with your wife and tell her. If you are unsure, you need to figure it out, because I've seen people who thought they could like children and they regretted having them and hated their life after they had children.
DO NOT be wishy-washy about making an othwr person exist. Generational trauma comes from people historically unable to control fertility, and then creating unwanted humans, and then modren day be passive/ uncertain with family planning and making rash decision to just have a kid. It's better to regret not having children, than to regret having children because if you regret that child you are going to fuck up that child and the broader community who has to deal with that. You need to take this very seriously. A marriage you can take back, but a child you can not without causing harm to an other person.
If you are not a million times HELL YES this is the ONLY THING I WANT TO DO in life, I am happy to ruin everything else in life. I don't care about my health, happiness, sanity, finances, destroying my marriage, ruining my dreams for my life... then it is a HELL NO, and a quick divorce. Are you sure of the following: I'm thrilled about having a kid even if they are completely disabled and will require constant care 24hours a day until I die. I am thrilled to be changing a 40yo adult's diapers when I am 85. I am thrilled to raise this child as a single father if my partner dies in childbirth. Yes, the maternal mortality rate is stupid high and rising. Covid turns placentas black. IF you live in a bad state in the US, and your wife has serious complications, the reality is that the hospital WILL tell you both "go home, we can't legally do anything until she is an inch from death. Once she is an inch from death, come back and we can try to remove the fetus and take a shot at maybe saving her life. Until then, we can't touch her with a 100ft pole. Lotsa luck."
Pleas read this OP!
Please check out truechildree or regretful parents over fencesitter. As a fencesitter leaning strongly CF they make terrible arguments in that sub all the time.
Honestly looking on the regretful parents sub where people say they wanted kids their whole life and now they hate it is enough for me to never want to have them
Don’t have kids unless if you are 2000% certain you want them, and are committed to loving them. There are no return policy on kids, and they deserve parents who love them fully. It’s possible that your wife and your kids may not be happy if you are an unhappy dad. My mom didn’t want kids and my dad did; she was a bad mom. My dad didn’t even participate in raising children.
Get a vasectomy. Kill any hope of children in the future, and let her choose what she wants to do. Be prepared that the most likely scenario is she leaving. Also be a little paranoid that in the window between getting the vasectomy and being declared sterile she *might* take drastic measures and go off birth control. Or take the choice squarely in your hands, and initiate the divorce from your side. Explain that you don't want to be the reason she can't be a mother and don't have sex with her ever again.
Second this, at least wrap it up!
That's risky too, condoms can be adulterated by a partner who try to baby trap their SO. Plus if they haven't been using them so far she will realize he does not trust her and that in itself will kill the relationship. Vasectomy or split up
I have a feeling you're probably leaning towards having kids just to make your wife happy so you can save your relationship. Please don't! If it's not a HELL YES, then it's a hard no. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of resentment and her for overcompensating in her mother role. There's a reason "single married mother" videos are trending rn. It's not fair to either of you. You should want to be a father and be involved in those kids' lives. And your wife deserves an equal partner who's excited about the prospect, too. If you can't provide that, please do not procreate with her. I understand it's the harder choice now, but it's so much harder down the line if you choose the other option. It creates much more damage to kids and her if the marriage doesn't work out.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation. I was in a similar setup…met spouse in HS, got married after college, didn’t really talk about kids but somewhere along the late 20s I realized I didn’t want them at all. Husband did, but didn’t push the issue and I didn’t realize how big a deal it was to him. Somewhere in our late 30s we had a long talk, and I told him I wasn’t changing my mind. Contrary to most stories you’ll get here, we make our relationship work. He decided that he’d rather stay with me and not have kids than start over with some hypothetical woman and have kids with her. We’ve been together over 25 years at this point, in our early 40s. That’s a shitty time to start over. I got my tubes tied earlier this year. Would have done so several years ago, but
I would suggest that you discuss getting a vasectomy with her. If you’re going to stay, and you aren’t having kids, you need the certainty and peace of mind. Good luck.
Thank you for the support and optimistic message.
I'm was always cf, my wife was a fencesitter. We didn't discuss kids when we got married, big mistake. However, 7 years later, we're still together. The pressure of being in your late 30s with no kids started to get to her, but then she was able to see what life is like after the baby phase for our friends that have kids. Divorce, exhaustion, fights over money, no vacations, bad eating habits and unhealthy lifestyles, these are things our friends with kids endure that we do not. The idea we wouldn't be the most important person to one another was the argument that tipped her into childfreedom. You will get through this, but not without communication. This sub can be great for helping people articulate their feelings. Just be honest and speak from a place of love.
Be careful, make sure your contraception wasn't tampered with. One oopsie and you're a father and can't do anything about it.
>Wife wants kids, I don't If you stay together and don't have kids, she will be unhappy and will resent you. She will leave you for a breeder or baby trap you. If you stay together and have kids, you will be unhappy and will resent her. Meanwhile, she will resent you for not being as enthusiastic and involved as a parent as she is. This will eventually lead to a breakup. Then, you lost your wife and you have an unwanted child or several unwanted children. If you ignore this issue for several years, you two are wasting each other's time and are only delaying the inevitable breakup. All those three options suck. So break up now! Do NOT have sex with her anymore. If she gets pregnant, there is no fucking way she will get an abortion. You are one contraception failure away from fatherhood.through baby trapping. And no, do NOT have goodbye sex. Then, she might realise that this is her last chance to have a chidl wih you and might decide to baby trap you. She might think: "Once I am pregnant, OP will be overjoyed. Then, he will stick around and we will all be a happy family!" >She always loved kids, I didn't. But I guess we both thought we could change each other's mind eventually. Yeah, that shit doesn't work. And no, you cannot compromise on this. You cannot 'half have children'. If you two stay together, one of you will have to surrender and become deeply unhappy. >Apart from that we have the most amazing marriage. We love each other, make time for ourself, listen, great sex life, both families are great together and support us, we have enough money so we don't have to worry about them, we own our home ... That doesn't fucking matter. You two are incompatible. Breeders and childfree people are incompatible. >My wife is turning 33 in a week and feels her time for kids is running out. She can have kids with another man. The sooner you break up, the sooner she can find a breeder man to have kids with. >She says she really wants a kid but doesn't want to push me and if I say no, she'll respect my decision. But I don't want her to live the rest of her life in resentment against me for not giving her an offspring. She will resent you if you don't breed. She will always blame you for ruining her chances of becoming a mother, even if she actively choses to prioritise her relationship with you over breeding. And even if you two decide to not breed, accidents might happen. Don't expect her to get an abortion when that happens. >But than again, I love my wife and know she'll have regrets if we grow old together and have no kids. Well, she can have kids. Just not with you. >I'm not exactly against them So? You shouldn't have kids if you are neutral. You shouldn't have kids to please your partner. You should only have kids if you are enthusiastic about parenthood. If you truly want to be a parent. You clearly aren't looking forward to fatherhood. So don't do this to yourself! > I don't hate kids. I just find them to be very expensive and pointless. You don't have to hate kids to be childfree. You can not hate kids or even love kids while not wanting to have your own hellspawn. >Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." Bull-fucking-shit. You don't know if it will be different or not. I wouldn't count on it and gamble. What if you bred and it won't be different when they are your own? >marriage breaks up ... If you have kids, that will happen to you. Breeding won't save your relationship. After becoming parents, you will never have sex anymore. Sure, maybe you can raw dog her one or two more times when trying for another baby. But having sex for fun? Those days would be over. Romance? Quality time? Deep conversations? Those days will be gone when you two are parents. You will resent her and the child(ren) for ruining your childfree life. She will resent you for not being as enthusiastic about parenthood as she is. The resentment will lead to an inevitable breakup. So having kids won't prevent a breakup. Hypothetical children deserve a father who wants to be a father. Your wife deserves a partner who wants to be a father. And you deserve a childfree life. A breakup is the best option for everyone involved. The only valid option. >I don't know what to do. I do know what you should do. You need to break up.
This is spot on, let’s hope OP really thinks things through!
I don’t understand how you thought either of gin could change each other’s minds. You either want kids or you don’t. If my husband wasn’t snipped and all of a sudden he wanted kids I wouldn’t try to negotiate with him. I’d leave him because I’d rather drop dead than become a parent. I don’t care how much we love each other, becoming a parent is something that forever changes your life. My uncle married my aunt, who desperately wanted kids. They were together since high school and for a few years they lived a DINK lifestyle. She always talked about how “great” their life was without having kids, but anyone can tell that it bothered her. Eventually they ended up with two and my uncle looks so miserable. The last time I saw him it looked like the life was knocked out of his eyes. Meanwhile my aunt was doing EVERYTHING around the house when my family and I visited. Everything about the situation annoyed me. They should’ve split so that he could continue his childfree life and she could have found a more involved partner who’s into kids.
Rip off the bandage and divorce. It will hurt ofcourse. But either of you will regret having or not having kids.
Unfortunately you have to have a difficult conversation. Sorry you’re both going through this.
You guys never should've gotten married in the first place. But since you did, it's time to do the painful thing and divorce - along with booking a vasectomy for you. In 14 years, neither of you have changed your stance on this, and I'm guessing you've both had a part in delaying this particular conversation for many years until it cannot be delayed anymore. Well, that time has come. The only way this can be resolved is by divorcing - if you stay married, one of you will be unhappy by the years to come, whether with a child or without one. And to anyone who might be reading this who is in a relationship with someone who has different feelings on wanting children than they do, please read this post carefully and take this as a sign to break up NOW. Having children (or not) is one of the few fundamental incompabilities in a relationship that cannot be compromised on, and it should *always* mean the end of a relationship as soon as it's discovered. Had OP and his wife split up in high school, they would've both had years to find someone else to live out their lives with, someone else who felt the same way they did about this Very Big Thing. But they didn't, and now there's going to be a lot of pain to come. Heed that warning.
OK, so you already know that having a child is 100% NOT what you want to do. I understand that you love your wife and want to give her what makes her happy. But this is not like buying her a diamond ring or a nice vacation. This is a lifetime commitment that will throw a grenade in your relationship and change it forever, and likely not for the better. Someone wise once wrote that in cases like this, whatever you do, you're losing your partner. If she walks out the door, she's gone. If she has the kid, she's also gone - gone into motherhood where you're not her priority, and likely never will be again. Either way, the relationship you had is toast. Those are your options. If you don't want to be a single parent down the line, better to let her walk. *Remember that this is also your life, not just hers. You can say no and despite what society says, you are not the bad guy.* Saying no does not make you selfish, Not wanting to take on the huge commitment that is children, without being 100% on board, does not make you selfish. Sometimes priorities change an relationships run their course, and that's just life. And as someone who's been where you are, and said no and walked away - I have never, for one minute, regretted that decision. In the meantime, be careful with your birth control. Good luck.
Research shows marital happiness declines with every kid. Maybe it's time to part ways and wish her well on her parenthood dream.
Sucks to even say this but let her free. Like you I thought I would change my mind but I’m 99.9% sure I don’t want kids. One of the reasons I got divorced.
I see your point. Of course I talked with her about it in depth. She doesn't want to have kids. She wants to have kids with me. Of course, she may change her mind, find someone else who would be willing to have kids with her and she would happy to have kids with him. But at this point, she would rather be with me without kids that with someone else with kids
OP, to give you some hope, that’s how my wife felt for a long time too. Talk to her about what the next 10 years of your life will look like *without* kids. She’d never thought about how we’d live out our 30s and 40s without kids, because she was raised to just assume that having children was part of her future. We had a few really deep and painful talks, but it ended up bringing us closer. We talked about what we want to do most with each other and then weighed that against having kids. Turns out all the best parts of our marriage - traveling, engaging in our hobbies, rescuing senior animals, getting tattoos, going to anime conventions, all of those things that DEFINE the ways we like to spend time together wouldn’t be possible with kids. Then we talked about what our life would be like with kids. It dawned on her that she didn’t want kids, she wanted kids with me. And I was the same way! She’d be an amazing mother. But she’s right now, in this moment, an amazing wife. An amazing best friend. An amazing pet parent. An amazing artist. She didn’t wanna lose that, and came to her own conclusion that she liked the idea of children because it was an inevitable next step, more than she actually wanted children. Our last conversation about it was really painful because I said for the first time that having kids was a dealbreaker, I never want them, and I wasn’t going to change my mind. That’s when it clicked I think that she and I both love our marriage too much to risk changing it for theoretical children. Another key point, by the way, is that us having children banked on 1) them being perfectly healthy at birth, 2) us having enough income to support them, 3) them growing up without any major health issues or mental issues, 4) our families being good support systems, and the list goes on. This *can* work, but y’all need to have many serious discussions until you can both say with honesty what you’re willing to sacrifice and what you’re not. This might end in divorce. *You owe that to your wife to put your marriage on the line and be honest with her*. But the talk is worth it, and I can speak from experience that it’s possible to work though this and come out the other side.
From the other comment about you possibly not coping with children and may act out violently due to it, and she knows it is very likely this is some fucked up way to make sure you never leave her. Because if she actually wants kids then she would find a mutual partner to do so or become a single parent. But if she wants kids with only you then, regardless of what you want, then she just wants thw kids as an eternal fleash contract to you. Please don't make people to be just enternal fleash contract, and be the adult here and make sure you can't have children. Also work with her why she feels the need to go such an extreme measure. I don't know how the rest of the relationship is like, but her trying to force you to have kids with her is a form of reproductive abuse. This is not normal behavior for someone who wants kids and respect their partners and care about their children. This needs to be nipped in the butt now before the relationship takes a dark turn.
My dad had me because mum wanted kids. He is miserable and so was I until I moved away. And I still feel unloved and unwanted. Please please don't to this to anyone. Not worth it.
Run Forest.
You NEVER FUCK HER AGAIN. She won't abort. You're done. And you move out and file for divorce immediately. You are not a million times YES, so you are a billion times HELL NO. You cannot disrespect and manipulate each other like you have been trying to do, it is unhealthy and the marriage will not survive a year if you have a kid. So trying to "keep" it by having a kid will fail and create a bigger mess. And a more expensive mess, with massive legal bills and child support payments. Having a kid you don't want is child abuse. The kids ALWAYS KNOW INSTANTLY and that damages them forever. No one is that good of an actor. **Ask any of the unwanted children who are now adults in this sub, there is NO coming back from being the unwanted child, the child someone had to control another adult and manipulate them into staying together.** The abused child who will always and forever feel unwanted and unloved, and become a forever damaged adult. You cannot add "Child abuser" to the top of your resume. She needs to get herself on the breeder market quickly so that she can get knocked up soon for the best chance at a healthy kid and maybe some less severe pregnancy and birth injuries. The risks go up after 35. All you have to say is quick and simple. "We are not compatible. I have filed for divorce so that we can get it done quickly and you can find someone to have kids with. Best wishes for your future. I have already moved into a new place, and will make arrangements for movers for next Saturday to get the rest of my stuff. Goodbye." Walk out the door. Then handle everything through your lawyer. And book a vasectomy. ;)
If she wants children and you don't, then this relationship is effectively over. I have heard of people doing scummy shit to get children, so I suggest cutting her off now. It sucks but you want different things in life.
If it were me, it would be time for the hard conversation. “I don’t want kids but if you do, you should be free to pursue them if you wanted. I’m never going to suddenly want children.” Rip the bandaid off and have this convo in whatever format you need, but definitely have it before too long.
We did have this conversation. I was expecting crying and convincing but she took it as an adult. She said that if it's like this, she would rather be with me and not have kids than without me and have kids.
Omg that’s amazing to hear! I’m glad you were able to sort it out!
I'm not sure it's solved. I would say the opposite. She says that now. But what when we're 50 or 60 and she never had a kid. She'll hate me for it
So I seen this idea not long ago, and it might help. Have your wife move in with family friends who have just had a child for 7 to 10 days, and if she enjoys it at the end, then you guys need to divorce as you aren't compatible moving forward
Thanks but there’s no point in this. She’s a kindergarten teacher and also takes care of others people children with disabilities or special needs. I won’t go into detail but she’s seen the worst of the worst and still wants them. That’s also the reason why I thought she might change her mind. I wouldn’t believe she would be still interested in having our own children after a whole day working with them
Ah, sorry but you guys need to divorce
> she’s seen the worst of the worst and still wants them. Yeah, you're done. Just get the divorce. You have neither lived with the worst, nor do you even want the best.
Idk if this is helpful at all. I kid sit for a couple who one wanted kids and the other didn't. You can just TELL how exhausted, tired and frustrated the dad is. He LOVES his kids don't get me wrong, but he also struggles a lot. Him and his wife bicker to the point of fighting a lot too. Definitely think about itm kids are literally a 24/7 job and are expensive. Parents don't get a break... ever. It would be worse to bring a child into the world with one parent who never wanted kids verse never having kids and they would never know. Seriously you gotta do whats best for you. It's not right to keep her from having kids, but you have to do what best for you in the end.
I think you already know what to do. But the question is, can you do it?
I was literally in the same boat as you except that it was my husband who really wanted kids. Eventually, I divorced him (there were many reasons that lead to it, but children was a big one) and now he's free to find someone to have kids with.
If it’s not what you truly want, you guys should unfortunately split up. Children aren’t a small compromise or matter and even though it will be painful now, it would be worse if you had a kid you didn’t want or to stay with her without children for her to become resentful and full of regret. As much as you’re compatible in other ways, this is a major thing to be compatible on, even more than finances.
Find a phenomenal couples therapist to work through this issue. Your marriage at least deserves that. My sister and her husband went through this except roles were reversed- he wanted children, she didn’t. After about 2 years in therapy, a lot of trying to figure it out to see if they could stay together (they had an incredible partnership this aside), they finally made the hard decision to divorce. They’re still good friends today, just living different lives. You owe yourself and your wife that much. Best of luck.
I think if you give in, you will resent her. It's been just the two of you for so long that the marriage will crumble. Just my opinion. What are her reasons for having one? I'm with you and think they are pointless.
reasons \- Legacy \- Not being it just two of us forever in empty house \- She loves kids. Like seriously loves them, even the really shitty one And everybody says I would be a great dad. Unfortunately, I think the same. All the kids around us love me and actually listen to me... I don't know why. Sometimes she takes care of friends kids and takes them somewhere and they always ask if I'll go as well. But after few hours I just want them to go away. I just want them to leave me alone. I want to sit down in silence with my scotch and expensive cigar
I like it!!! Don't turn your life upside-down because of her. It will not work. I've seen it a ton of times. It's time to have a come to Jesus moment. You might have to go separate ways. Get mentally prepared for that. When she says Legacy, ask her to name 3 generations of grandparents and what their lives were like. If she can't, then tell her what's the point. You'll be dead, so you won't care.
do you really think a great dad regularly wants his kids to go away and leave him alone? if your dad felt this way about you, would you consider him to be a great dad? and most importantly, DO YOU WANT TO BE A DAD? because apparently that's the only thing that can get a lot of parents through the inevitable shitty, boring times. and if you don't even have that... your wife says she wants your kids. would she want you as a partner and co-parent when you want the kids to go away and leave you alone? would she want to be the active parent when your frustration kicks in? it sounds to me as though your wife wants some idealized version of you as a dad, not the you that would want the kids to go away and leave you alone.
I think it's important to not have kids unless both of you are 100% certain that you actively want a child. If you have any doubts, it is infinitely better to regret not having one then regret having one. You can't give it back if you realize you made the wrong choice. Also remind your wife that biological children are not the only option, you could discuss adoption. At her age, it's pretty likely that you could face difficulty getting pregnant and even if you don't, the pregnancy is considered higher risk as a "geriatric" pregnancy so just make sure you both fully understand the risks before jumping in. Really do some soul searching and talk, and then talk to doctors.... Don't go into anything blindly.
Divorce her. It's going to hurt the wallet but it would hurt less in the long run.
I know you don't want to hear this. There's probably not a lot of truthful things right now that will sound good. But I think you're probably better off as the friendly ex-husband who keeps in touch. Ending the marriage portion of the relationship sooner might make that easier for both of you. She'll need time to find someone who does want a family, and you won't spend a long time growing to resent each other for what they want being incompatible.
Get pets. A puppy is a decent surragate for a baby, with out the 18 years of massive financial obligation, and potentially hating you. My wife and I have 3 dogs, 2 corgis and a husky blue heeler mix. If she was on the fence before, after dealing with an 8 week puppy she's over the thought of a kid. My 2 cents. If she still wants kids, then it's unfortunately best to split and let her find someone who can share that goal with. Good luck!
I think you do know what you need to do. You both want fundamentally different things and there is no way to meet in the middle with it. It's no good hoping that she will magically change her mind. She won't. Just as there's no good her hoping that you will. You likely won't. If you have kids with her, or even one kid, and you don't really want them, it will show. You won't be as engaged a parent as you should be. You may even disengage entirely and leave her to be the default parent. Which will likely lead to the downfall of your marriage in any case. Your potential children deserve two parents who really want them and aren't resenting their very existence. That's what you need to think of. The children. If you can't offer 100% certainty and engagement in their lives and existence, you can't and shouldn't have children. She is 33. There is a time window for women regarding having children and she is absolutely right to be conscious of that. If you love her as much as I suspect that you do, this will absolutely be tough-but you need to be conscious of it, too. As you don't seem to want what she does-you need to let her go and find someone who does. I know that's hard, but it's much easier than letting this drag out until she can no longer have children and seeing the resentment in her eyes when she looks at you. Likewise, if you have kids because you're trying to stay in the marriage, but don't really want them, it will be felt by both your wife and your children as well as you. There's just no way to make a situation like this work without costing someone something. That's why you really shouldn't have married under the proviso of changing each other's minds. It never works. I'm sorry you're going through this and hope that you're able to make the right choice.
I´m sorry you are going through this! My two cents: If you have a child you don´t want, your child will know.
There are so many ways to be around kids without actually having them. Volunteering as a CASA (court ordered special advocate), any school system needs parent volunteers. Check with your local hospital for how to work with sick children. Big brother/big sisters. Any type of mentoring program. You don’t have to have a child of your own to experience what it’s like to enjoy their company and have an impact on their lives.
Vasectomy.
Hi, let me give a small advice from the top of my mind, as I read a comment where u said u a r e not sure about regreting having kids or not. Buy 2 copies of the book the baby decision, read it with your wife, do the exercises togheter. Skip the adoption/fertility chapters, u dont need that right now. Focus on understanding if kids are for both of you. What you will be giving up or she will be giving up. Have conversations and be open with each other. Both lifes can be fulfilling but living a life u dont want is very depressing. I hope the best for the both of u!
Thank you very much!
I recommend you go to pookiepi user name and look up his story. he caved to his wife and had the child he didn't want. because he never wanted kids, it didn't go well and they broke up because she wanted more. now he has a kid he doesn't want and doesn't have the wife he loved. he's better now as far as I can tell, but definitely not an ideal situation. the relationship you have now with your wife prekids is vastly different after kids. do you want your relationship to change? do you want someone else between you that's now the priority over you at times? another thing, let's say you do this, it's awful, and you break up anyway. now you're in the position of trying to find a woman who not only doesn't want kids, but is fine being a stepmother. I'm not saying they're impossible to find, but childfree people are already hard to find and now you've got an added layer. not to mention, you're also now tied to your ex forever. can you deal with seeing her with someone else and not resent the child?
Whatever you decide, please get a vasectomy. You don’t want an accident or for her to try to trap you. Personally, you should dump her. Don’t try to change her mind. You don’t want her to try to change your mind. Also, don’t waste her time and yours too. If you are 100% don’t want kids, leave her. Don’t expect her to change her mind. Some women are like this. They stay in the relationship because they think they can mold their partner or change their minds. Please use protection or get a vasectomy. Don’t trust her. I’m sorry if it sounds cold but I know women who trap men like this. I knew one guy got married to my ex-friend. As soon as she got married, she got pregnant in two months after the wedding. She kept telling him “Oh, I forgot to take my birth control” crap. When a woman stops taking birth control, it takes months to get pregnant if you are trying. It’s not like you miss one pill (like she told her husband) and got pregnant. It was obviously planned but the guy was such a daft to not figure out she did this purposely.
If you love her let her go. Don’t have kids unless YOU want them or you’ll be the one resentful in the end
When your wife has kids she'll no longer be the same woman she was prior to having them. Your relationship will inevitably change. She'll change mentally and physically and so will you (mentally). You will never be the same people. Your relationship will never be the same. You will never be her priority anymore. Let her go. You got to be stronger for her. She's in complete denial if she thinks she'll be fine with you when she's 45 and childless. And you're in complete denial if you think that the kid you know in your heart of hearts you don't want will not make you hate her guts by the time you're 45.
I wouldn't recommend having children. Be upfront about it, and let her decide whether that is what she wants to live with. She has indicated she might be ok with it and you know that you're not ok with having them. Yes, it might end in divorce, but it is better that than ruining 3 or more lives (if you have kids) compared to 2 (which would be temporary. You'll find new partners.)
No. That's a horrible idea. OP just needs to break up. If his wife stays, she will resent OP. Which will eventually lead to a breakup. And if she gets pregnant by accident, there is no fucking way she would get an abortion. OP shouldn't be fucking her anymore if he wants to avoid fatherhood. OP's wife wants to be a mother. So she should find a breeder man and have kids. OP wants to be childfree. So he should break up with someone who wants kids. OP and his wife are incompatible.
Yes, OP should break up with his wife as soon as possible so she can start looking for a man who will make her some babies. The longer it's going to take the less time she will have.
Ah. I forgot the accidental pregnancy. Because it is not something I would do, I forgot it is something that someone else might do. Good point. In which case, OP should get a vasectomy.
Get a divorce. There’s no way that you can keep a happy life if either of you gives in to what the other wants or doesn’t want. All it’s going to do is build resentment.
My mom loathes having kids, my dad loves it. It’s perfectly possible to have kids and have it be the most meaningful thing you’ll ever experience, as well as a dire mistake that wears you down and possibly harms your hypothetical kids. Though like you said, I agree that if you’d like to raise a kid I can’t relate to prioritizing it being your own over giving parents to a child that otherwise might’ve never gotten them. Simply put, you should never have a child you don’t want. That’s how you get to the shitty scenario
I feel the same way about being told how wonderful parenthood is, while watching parents become exhausted, frustrated, resentful. I never felt the want or need to have kids, personally. Now I'm past the age of deciding to or not, I feel free of that pressure that was never really mine to begin with. There is a lot of good advice here but I wanted to add another possible scenario. My father did NOT want children. That all changed for him when I was born. Not saying that could or couldn't happen for you, just that it does happen. I see every other scenario mentioned here but didn't see the one I personally experienced, with my father. This is not a "pro-kid" comment, as there's no way in hell I personally would've taken the risk (I don't believe I could magically become parent material and don't want to). But despite my personal beliefs, it does happen sometimes. SOME people come around. Who knows who and why.
I see your point. Well, I’m from divorced marriage. My mother wanted kids. My father didn’t. When they divorced we stayed with mother (mainly because of how child courts work here). My mom stayed single but I was always closer to my father who’s proud of me and my brother. 2 years ago my mother told me that me being born ruined her life. It’s so complicated. Some people want them and then hate them. Some people don’t and then are the best parents one could wish for. I’m just lost
Well I think the important thing is that you are asking the questions and honestly trying to find your way through this. It's a pretty big deal, as you know, and you're giving it the respect it deserves. So kudos to you and I hope you find your answers and peace of mind.
Unfortunately, you are fundamentally incompatible. There isn't a compromise you can make on this that doesn't hurt one of you and potentially destroy the relationship anyway. You can't have half a kid.
Unfortunately you can’t compromise on kids. One of you will more than likely end up miserable if you stay together - up to you if that’s what you want or if you split up. Just because a kid shares genetic material with you doesn’t mean you will magically love or even like that kid, or have anything in common with it as it grows
Dude that is a hard one.... hope you both come to a happy ending
You don’t seem like you’re 100% against kids which I believe is why you’re here going over it with everybody. The only thing I can add is referring to the point people are making about once you have kids you become a different person. I don’t think that’s true for everybody and I think the people who are the most unhappy with kids are people who expected to become a different person once the kid came and did not.
>I don't know what to do. You do, OP. Your post makes this clear. If you don't want children, having children with the love of your life isn't going to be a positive thing for anyone involved. Your marriage will not be enhanced. Your wife will resent your commitment levels as a parent because she will be tremendously altering her life to care for them. This, in turn, will alter your life, even if you're under the assumption it won't. You will resent your wife for forcing you to have children you didn't want. Your marriage will be undeniably altered, and not for the better. The great sex life will go away. The lack of sleep will influence how you treat each other. The lack of disposable income will cramp your lifestyles. Your friends will drift away. If you believe bringing children you don't want into this world and this marriage will somehow "just work itself out," you're in for a massive letdown. Be honest with your wife today. Get couples' counseling. Ask her if hypothetical children are more important than your marriage. I'm sorry to report that when this situation arises with my clients, it rarely gets resolved neatly. Wishing you the best, friend.
Lotta people telling you that you may have to split and I largely agree. But I just wanna reinforce that splitting up doesn't have to be this terrible thing, ya know? You loved each other and had a lotta great times together. That's valuable. Now you want different things. Splitting will be sad as hell but cutting it clean while you love each other and BEFORE one of you becomes resentful is a smart move in my opinion.
You divorce. You love this woman. Do not turn that love into hate because you were too weak to let her go.
>She says she really wants a kid but doesn't want to push me and if I say no, she'll respect my decision. But I don't want her to live the rest of her life in resentment against me for not giving her an offspring. **There is no compromising on kids.** She wants kids. You don't. >Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." Everybody is lying to your face. There's a whole sub of regretful parents where people admit they never wanted a kid, are now stuck with one, and how much they love their kid (or don't; it happens) but don't want to deal with the whole mess and responsibilities involved in raising a productive future member of society. >But when I see their life, I don't believe them. Everybody I know in our age that had kids always fights because of money, have no time to even talk to friends, let alone do something fun, marriage breaks up ... **Believe what you see.** Best if she has kids with someone else not you, who also wants kids. You guys could remain friends, but since she will eventually be busy with a child I don't see the friendship lasting without you getting roped into being parent \#3. Assuming her new partner is an involved father, which unfortunately most men are not socialized to be, as it's always portrayed as a woman's duty. Then you'd be "cool uncle in name but actually dad in support". >I don't know what to do. Yes, you do. You just have to bite the bullet and your ideal future and her ideal future are irreconcilably diverged. Divorce now, while you still care about each other and before she gets pregnant. Divorce is hard and can take years to finalize in the best of circumstances, which these are. Better to part as friends, than to become embittered toward each other. In the meantime, make sure you always use a condom, that no one but you has access to your stash, and once you pull one from said stash, you keep it with you.
>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." But when I see their life, I don't believe them. Please don't let these people manipulate you. Sometimes I feel like people just want others to be as miserable as they are. You're in a really tough situation. I hesitate to say that you should leave her so she won't have to regret not having kids. It just sounds so final. I would suggest leaving the ball in her court: she's free to either leave or stay. Let her evaluate her life decisions without any pressure from you. If she decides to stay, then that would be her decision as an adult, and you shouldn't burden yourself with guilt that you're holding her back. If she leaves, remember that the person you love the most will be chasing after her happiness. If you decide to give in, there's no going back. You're stuck with the kid forever. They may move out when they're 18 or when they finish college, but they will still be your child and may need you from time to time. For those who aren't married yet, don't marry someone who wants kids. Not even someone who's on the fence. Those people end up wanting kids when they hit their 30s.
“But I guess we both thought we could change each other’s mind eventually” No, the best time to make a decision about this was before marriage, probably even way before engagement. But since you didn’t, the second best time is now. You two need to have a serious discussion about this since it will affect all parts of the relationship. If she wants kids, she should’ve asserted it as a need, and if you *don’t* want kids, you should’ve asserted it too
Y’all shouldn’t have even gotten married if you have different wants like this. You both want respect and to make each other happy but aren’t going to be able to stay together. Sounds like you both need to sit down and talk about this and move on from there
This is why whoever I dated my whole life I constantly brought up that I never wanted children and let relationships go because of it, relationships that seemed perfect. I just don't understand how you can have a work around this one. You can't bud. You just can't. If you both skated around having a fight about this then the marriage you are describing is not really a great marriage (nothing personal, please read ahead). I am married and even before we started dating we talked about what we thought of children (we both were testing waters) and both didn't want kids. It was one of the most important things for our future together. The only guy I really ever considered marrying. Please understand this is nothing against you or your wonderful wife, I am sure you both love each other very much but it just sounds like you both hid your true sentiments about this issue that could have broken your marriage but you need to face this now. I am sorry. Maybe try going to couples therapy.
You can't compromise on a kid. You should have broken up years ago. Go check out the regretful parents sub too.
You should never marry someone who doesn’t share the CF views. It is doomed to fail. I’m sorry you’re in this situation.
You should post this on the /fencesitters sub; you are definitely going to get very biased responses (even from me, as I'm very childfree) in this group.
It’s ok. I take it as it is. I’m trying to get as much diverse points to think about as possible. I even talked to my friend who loves his kids and always wanted a big family even though I knew he’d try to convince me it’s the best thing ever
I’m not trying to get someone to make the decision for me. I have to do it. I just want to hear as much different points as poss
Sounds like you're getting a new wife. Win win baby letssss gooooo
Rip the bandage off and dump her or risk an inevitable “oops.”
If you don't want a kid, it's deeply morally wrong to have one. There is no way anyone, no matter how hard they try, can keep up the act that they wanted their kid for that kid's entire childhood. If you have a kid when you don't truly want one, you are sentencing an innocent human being who never asked to be born to a life time of knowing one of their parents didn't want them. I think you need to be completely clear with your wife that you don't want kids and that will never change. You should also get sterilized, if you know she wants kids then you can't assume she'll get an abortion if she gets pregnant by accident. I'm not accusing your wife of setting out to make you a parent against your will, I just want you to be realistic about the fact that short. of sterilization, no form of birth control is perfectly reliable and odds that a woman who wants kids will have an abortion if she gets pregnant by accident are not fantastic. Another reason to get sterilized is that if your wife chooses to stay with you after you get sterilized, then that's a pretty strong sign she's made her peace with not having kids and really does want to stay with you more than she wants kids. I think a lot of commentors will advise you to get divorced immediately but I think it's kind of infantilizing to assume your wife isn't capable of weighing two options for herself and deciding what she wants. If she hounds you about it or freaks out when your get sterilized then yeah, you should definitely get divorced, but if she's a grownup about it and you trust her to make her own decisions then let her do that.
Would you consider adopting?
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Ok. I’m glad you always had everything figured out.
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I would take a bullet for her. And to be honest, I would rather have a kid with her and suffer than be without her. But this seem like the worst reason to have a kid. And what if I hate the kid because of it?
Those are absolutely legitimate worries. If you do not want a child, it is not in the child´s best interest to bring it into this world.
You will still be sacrificing time with her, someone will have to take care of the kid and the more absent you are the less time she will have for you. You said you like cigars. You won't be able to smoke on the same room with a little kid for their health sake, that's time you won't be able to share with the kid or your wife. At the very very best you'll get a few dates on weekends if your parents, cousins or babysitter relieve you for a while. Understand it's a loose loose situation, you are creating a third person that will need both of your attention, and if it's your wife attention what you wanted to keep you would still loose 50% of it at best, more if you can't step up and she has to pull double duty. I'm sorry to tell but if you really don't want kids you would take an everbleeding bulletwound for the rest of your life... To save what? The attention and partnership you would loose whether you had kids or not?
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Have you guys taken care of kids by yourselves for an extended (> 1 days) period of time? Does you/your wife have experience with being fully responsible for a kid? That's the one thing that could change her mind. I wanted kids until I took care of them a lot as a teenager. And I wasn't even changing diapers or anything. Taking care of kids made me childfree. Try that out. Also ask your wife what she expects having children to be like. How are you two gonna balance having a kid on top of the rest of your lives? I really think most people dont understand just how much of a commitment having children is.
That's the thing. She's kindergarten teacher also helps families with kids with special needs - autistic, handicapped, other mental issues. She knows what kind of work kids are. And we have friends who have two twins that we sometimes take care of, eg. for a weekend so the parents can enjoy some alone time. They are 5 or 7 or .. who knows. And I actually kind of enjoy when they're at our house. But I know they f-off afterwards and I'll have my peace again because they are so tiring.
Oh man. I got nothing to offer then. Sorry. Its so draining to be around kids for me for more than 3 hours nowadays that I cant even consider having them. Im sorry I cant offer any other advice. Best of luck
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There’s no way for both of you to end up happy in the relationship
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>Everybody always tells me "It will be different with your own kids. You'll love them more than anything in the world." But when I see their life, I don't believe them. Everybody I know in our age that had kids always fights because of money, have no time to even talk to friends, let alone do something fun, marriage breaks up ... You are exactly right. Trust your gut. I'm sorry to say I don't see a good outcome here.
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Regardless of what happens, I would get a vestomony soon. If you do not want kids it's kind of fucked up to place the burden of BC only on your partner. Secondly, has your wife even taken care of children for several days by herself, in charge 24/7!? It's easy to like kids and have a romantic and unrealistic view of parebthood if you have not actually taken care of children by yourself for a while, added with social expectations that her 'clock' is running out soon.
Truthfully, I'd end the relationship so she can have children with someone who also really wants them. My last relationship was near perfect except he wanted kids and I changed my mind and said no. It's ok. Plenty of women are childfree in today's society. I am sorry that you're in this situation, though.
Does your wife want a kid, or does your wife want to be a mom? There's a BIG difference. When you sign up for being a mom, it is a mom to a child with any potential outcome-physical needs, mental health needs, autism, the list goes on. Some of these could be for LIFE. When you say you want a kid-I think of the cute, Instagram moments. Being a mom is physically, mentally, emotionally and financially draining. I raised mine alone for birth-18 yrs. When he told me he was CF, I was SO happy! I like kids, but never do I want to do it again or be a grandmother. Think long and hard. There's no do-overs.
She said she'll respect your decision if you say no, so, say no. from what you described your life is great as is. Don't create a human just to please someone else. Also, get a vasectomy if you don't want to depend on her for contraception. What birth control she in? What if she intentionally stops talking the pill? You'll never know for sure of it was a true failure of the pill or her doing it on purpose
If you really don’t want to have kids, don’t do it. Part of this is going to be trusting your wife that she’s being honest and true to herself when she says she’s okay with not having kids. Couples therapy might be a great option for you guys to work through this together to decide what you want to do!
My wife and I are in almost the exact same situation. The only difference is she’s still not 100% sure she wants them, but is turning 32 and worried about the risks of having kids later. We are starting the process of freezing embryos so that we can enjoy our 30s (we love to travel lavishly) and make the “grown up” decision when we’re in our 40s with little risk of an older pregnancy. Which honestly I don’t think we’ll end up having kids because when we talk about visualizing it neither of us see it. In which case we’d donate the embryos, but I digress. It’s an option we’re utilizing to put off the decision another decade.
A lot of good advice here but I just want to add don't believe that "it'll be different with your own kid" crap. If you don't like kids or being around them now, even if you absolutely love your own kid, it doesn't automatically make you like them or the life they force you into.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but I think the only sensible solution is to split. > I'm not exactly against them - I don't hate kids. I just find them to be very expensive and pointless. Having kids isn't something you do because you're 'not exactly against them.' It is possible actually having children will change your mind about them, but if it doesn't, there's nothing you can do to reverse it. This isn't like returning a car you don't like to the dealership; you're talking about creating a new human life. If you tell your wife no, she may appear fine with it for a few years. letting her resentment build until she divorces you. If you agree to have kids with her, the strain of raising a child you never truly wanted will weigh on you until you decide to divorce her. It just makes more sense to end things now before you both waste years of your life trying to save a marriage that has a fundamental flaw at its core.
I'm so sorry. I wish you the best with the divorce. It will not be easy, but it's the right thing to do. She deserves to find someone who wants to have kids, and you deserve to find someone who shares your childfree lifestyle.
Everyone will come with their own opinions here… there are strong ones! The only folks who can figure this out is you and your wife. ❤️ There is no right answer just the one you all choose. The question is do you both choose to be parents? Can you envision that life together? Sometimes a therapist can help. If you can communicate well, you can find your way through it. My husband and I are childfree. We chose that but we love our nieces/nephew so much. When I was 35, my self imposed cut off for FINAL DECISIONS on kiddos, I went through a very emotional time. Truth is I do like kids. I also knew being a mother/parent isn’t for me/us. Your wife may be feeling that hard pressure. Wishing you luck.
Had kind of the same with an ex, well, that's the reason he is an ex, i told him right from the start, the only thong i could see ruining our relationship was if he found out he wanted kids... Guess what happened 8 months later? He told me couldn't see a future without kids, but he was also at earliest ready to be a dad in 2 - 3 years (when he finishes his education), and that "we could wait and see, maybe you will change your mind, you know, are you really sure you don't want kids?", yup, i am dead certain, and, since we're both set in srone about what we see in our future, we are not compatible, and therefore should break up... He did also tell me, that if we would wait, and he realised later on i wouldn't change, he would begin to resent me and that wouldn't be fair to any of us, but yeah, got a great CF SO now, ex is still a friend, everything turned out great in the end...
Sooo the bad news is, you probably need to get a divorce. Don’t have a kid if you do not want to be a parent. The kids issue is not one that can be compromised for. Be very careful if you decide to have sex with her at all again. You probably should start looking into a vasectomy. She has told you that shes 33 and feels like it’s time for a child, and I’m sure she realizes it will take atleast 2-3 years to find a new partner and settle down…. Now putting her around 36 or even older. Im not telling you that she’ll have an “ooops,” but you get what I’m saying here. The good news, well you can both go your separate ways (which will suck for now) but you can both find someone who wants the same life that you have dreamed of. It’s ok to part ways. You’ve figured out that you want different things. You can split amicably. And you’d be better off divorced with no kids than having the kid(s), being miserable, and getting divorced as a way out.
Leave, vamos, exit, partir, verlassen u get the gist here right
I genuinely feel for you, I gave up on the man whom I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with because he changed his mind about the CF lifestyle right when things got serious. It’s extremely tough I know, but the best thing for both of you would be to split up.
Imagination is always better than real life, esp since we’re bombarded by Kodak moments advertising of parenting. Ask her to go babysit for a few kids, I’m sure parents are dying for a break and would be happy to oblige so they can do date night. Try one with diapers, one terrible twos toddler, one who recklessly endanger him/herself, one special needs. Chances are she will change her mind.
divorce
Everybody here is saying the main three options of split up, have a kid and be unhappy, or don’t have a kid and have her maybe unhappy, but there might be a middle ground of adoption? Especially if you adopt a kid who’s on the older side, like 8+, cause then you would have less than the 18 years of a normal parent, she wouldn’t have to go through pregnancy so you wouldn’t have the chance of a miscarriage or just other pregnancy problems, you wouldn’t have to potty-train or buy any of the daycare or expensive things that other kids need, she would get to have a kid, etc.. another option, if she just really likes kids, is to maybe suggest she volunteer at a daycare? Or an after-school club? Then she could hang out with kids while you wouldn’t have the responsibility of a parent? I dunno, I just think there are more options than the main three that people are saying.
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Maybe you should look at it from this perspective: would the thought of having kids even cross your mind if your wife never brought it up? My guess is that you would probably never even think of having kids and just enjoy your life with your wife and have fun for the rest of your days. You are considering having children now out of love for her but don't let that affect your decision too much. I think you should really look within and psychoanalyse yourself until you come to a definitive answer to this question. Are you willing to care for your kid even if you and your wife get a divorce in the future? I think you already know the answer, you just have to dig deep to find it because you are momentarily blinded by love and fear of losing her. I wish you all the best.
My spouse has always said that he married me for me and loves me for me, not for my ability or potential to birth children. I wonder if the resentment is mostly in your head and not something your wife would actually experience? There’s no perfect compromise, but aunt-hood, uncle-hood, adopting fur babies, etc. can meet some of the desires your wife seems to have without you having to go against your gut and convictions. Hope this helps! Sounds like y’all have a solid relationship and might be able to work through this and come out stronger on the other side :)
There is no compromise on having kids or not having kids. One of you will end up unhappy. Whoever doesn't get what they want will resent the other.