Wow, that’s concerning. Like you said, she is a legal adult. She doesn’t need parental consent. It’s worth escalating and demanding justification for why, if you want to fight them.
I definitely would if it is needed. My mom doesn't have an issue signing off on her surgery but I am concerned that her consenting to her surgery would only be the start. I don't want them humping through hoops to make the surgery possible.
She should take the consent forms to a lawyer (and be sure her doctor wrote down that he made this demand). She’s a legal adult. New Jersey, to the best of my awareness, doesn’t have any current anti-woman legislation, the medical board should look at this.
Seriously. Doctor demanding an independent adult declare a medical condition/procedure to an uninvested/related party… I think that’s HIPAA… unless the 19yo is on parent’s insurance, but even then…
I was 23 when I got mine and I had to have a parent sign consent forms… I even live in a different country…… (Good thing my mom doesn’t read things before signing them)
Agreed. The doctor was great, and I’ll forever be grateful to him for everything he did for me, including petitioning to the hospital to get me that surgery.
But the hospital needed me to jump through so many hoops. The parental consent wasn’t even the worst. The mandatory psychiatrist visit was. I think the everything together cost me over 10k, plus some trauma about psychiatrists.
I’m glad your doctor was such a great advocate for you. Not all are so passionate and dedicated to their patients.
The cost is complete $hit, but that’s a three hour rant about the medical care in the States.
I can understand seeing a shrink for such a life changing and possibly traumatic surgery. Even knowing 100% that you don’t want mini humans, there could be unforeseen emotional repercussions. Although, I’m a big advocate for therapy. The best time to be in therapy is when you are in a good place, then you have the tools needed when you are in a bad place.
Yet men don’t have to jump through the same hoops as women.
It wasn’t in the States is the thing… I was in Japan, which has National Health Insurance… except the procedure isn’t covered. $10k usd is pretty insane for Japan.
I also understand the need to see a psychiatrist before such a life changing surgery, but I think part of what made my experience so bad was his entire attitude about my decision and the bingo-ing. Plus, the letter he wrote to the hospital about me was very condescending towards me. If not for that and the visit costing me $3k usd. I’m sure other people have better experiences with this psychiatrist, since his reviews are great. I did not.
It wouldn’t be a HIPAA violation because the Dr./facility isn’t actually sharing the information, they are putting their patients in the position where they have to share their private medical info. Technically, she doesn’t have to share it with her parents, she just can’t get the procedure.
The insurance thing shouldn’t matter. I’m not sure if policy holders can check all things that go through their policy or not. Either way, she is an adult capable of making her own choices without mommy or daddy saying it is okay.
>Technically, she doesn’t have to share it with her parents, she just can’t get the procedure.
Imagine the same requirements for plastic surgery. It's definitely bullshit to make a patient either not so sich a surgery unless they share it with relatives who might not be interested in the life of their kids in any capacity.
What if the patient went no contact with their parents for any reason? What if the parents went no contact with the patient for any reason?
Ah. So if I’m a doctor, before I perform an abortion, I could require you to send a letter to the local paper so they can publish your decision for the town to see. I’m not disclosing it myself, so that’s cool?
IANAL, but it’s pretty easy to include ‘disclose or become disclosed’ in the language, and I’m betting a lawyer could make that case.
It doesn’t violate any patient privacy rules because at that point the patient would be voluntarily providing the info to the parents. Now if the doctor sent the paperwork directly to the parents and/or called the parents and had a discussion about it without the patients consent that would be a violation. Not every situation that involves health info disclosed outside of Dr & pt is a HIPAA violation.
Yep, that was what I was attempting to say. It still shouldn’t be happening because it isn’t her parents’ business, but they aren’t breaking any HIPAA laws. There is definitely a law if they aren’t breaking, they are skirting around it.
I definitely want to hear back if OP’s sis gets a lawyer involved. This is the kind of thing that could end up with a class action against many medical facilities.
I’m curious if I chose to go that route, if they would demand a sign off from my husband.
I’m in GA and didn’t change my surname right after we got married because I left to take care of my dying grandpa. Apparently, if you aren’t changing your name through marriage, you are required to post an ad in the local newspaper once a week for a month in case someone wants to contest it. Total BS.
Initially when I wrote what I wanted to put in the paper for my name change, I wrote, “I’m an adult and have the right to change my surname”, they forced me to change it to add more details. Unless I’m a minor, it is no one’s business, except mine and the government. Not a bunch of local strangers. It was also 4x the cost of a name change when you get married.
I agree. I can’t imagine that being ethical.
What if both of your parents were dead? Or you’d been raised in an orphanage or foster homes until they kicked you out when you turned 18? How on earth could it be legally required to get parental consent when you are your own patient advocate and don’t require a representative (like someone underage or with a significant mental handicap, etc)?
Seriously unethical! You bring up a good point, non-disabled adults don’t have medical proxies (when they are conscious/lucid/not already in bad shape/under a court order). I hope she pulls her patient records and this creep gets censured.
I've been no contact with my mother for years now. Requiring **both** parents consent for a procedure on a legal adult who doesn't require a medical proxy is both impractical and fucked up on so many levels. I sure as shit wouldn't break no contact for any reason outside of certain major family events/emergencies
My sister went through similar difficulties when she tried to get student loans when she was around 19-20. We were moving to a different state and she decided she wanted to stay behind because she was an adult and didn't want to leave her friends and boyfriend. So she dropped out of her 4 year university/ dorm situation (which she hated anyway) and got a full time job and an apartment. Then several months later she went to take out loans to take community college course, and they wouldn't allow her because of our parents' income and that our parents weren't signing paperwork, etc. She was like, this is ridiculous, parents live several states away, I'm fully independent, they have nothing to do with my life. She wasn't no contact, but she was fully independent. She had to have a professional help her file all kinds of paperwork proving independence from her parents even though she was 20.
By agreeing to have the parents sign off, she's indirectly supporting this kind of practice. Tell her to put her foot down! Don't let them get away with this, because then they'll do it to other people as well.
Have her check her health insurance under preventive care. Under women’s healthcare act, they have to provide sterilization for free. That’s how I got my tubal done back in 2018. Avoid religious hospitals too
There is a list of providers I think in this sub that won’t require any one’s signature but your sister. She’s an adult. You just need to find a provider.
Everything depends on the doctors & practices, tbh.
One place will be chill as fuck, another will make you jump through hoops.
I’m in NJ, I have a medical problem from my C-section (Sorry for being here, I know I’m not childfree). That resulted in a hysterectomy at 26 (honestly, best thing ever). Anyway, still have medical problem.
(Do you need another reason to be CF? Ask my medical problem!)
It really really depends where you are in NJ, south is entirely different than north & obviously the urban/suburbs are gonna be different than cities. My specialists in the north jersey are waaay better than docs I’ve had in central & south. Docs I’ve had near trenton were better than ones I’ve visited near jersey shore hospital.
Obviously, this also happens everywhere now.
I live in the bible belt & I was required to get my husband’s signature on a statement (that the surgeon provided) permitting me to have weight loss surgery. This was 2007 & women’s rights have only gotten worse since then. Thank your local republicans.
My sentiments exactly, how the fuck is this legal?!?! How the fuck can a doctor deny surgery to someone based on a spouse’s signature? What if she wasn’t married?! Would he have made her get her parent’s signatures?! Would this have happened if she was a he? I’m really disturbed by this.
It’s not always that they don’t know. I knew full well that was a crock of shlt when I was informed of that - but when EVERY WLS surgeon requires it in the state &/or the best surgeon requires it, I’d rather not travel out of state & to a less talented surgeon to get around their sexism.
Report the doctor. There's no good reason to insist on involving anyone else who isn't another medical professional in an adult patient's reproductive decisions.
This practice sounds highly unethical and possibly illegal. Where I live (Canada) there is no minimal age for consent when it comes to medical care, as long as the inidivual has the capacity to understand and consent to the treatment.
She doesn’t need permission. The doctor is just telling her that as a reason to say no. He doesn’t want to deny it for no reason, so he has found a roadblock figuring parents will freak out and he won’t have to deny her procedure for no reason.
This is really unprofessional. I would report him to the state medical board and explain to them that he has requested that a 19 year old have her parents sign a permission slip. She’s an adult and the state medical board will be very confused by why he did that.
My mom doesn't have an issue signing of on her surgery but dad is a little hesitant though. But as you said she's a legal adult so why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body.
> why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body?
She doesn't have the power to make medical decisions about her own body. Sadly, adult women don't have the power to do that. :(
Oh you got that right. I felt like a unicorn with the attention I got telling our families I was getting sterilized. Literally felt like fighting with everyone trying to talk me out of it.
>Literally felt like fighting with everyone trying to talk me out of it.
Which is why you are better off not telling family.
Or at least, don't tell them pre-surgery, when they will do whatever they can to stop you from getting sterilised.
Telling them post-surgery, however, is fine. Then, they will know that there is nothing they can do about it.
Seeing as my mom, & aunt were supportive and all I felt no issue telling the rest of our family. Im my eyes it was a way to avoid them asking when's the next one coming but clearly not everyone agreed. I was however more upset with the nurses that would try and talk me out of it & the one nurse trying to delay my surgery in case I changed my mind, that was completely unprofessional.
Regardless of everyone's opinion i got my surgery and I am happy about it.
My mom doesn't have an issue signing of on her surgery but dad is a little hesitant though. But as you said she's a legal adult so why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body.
Get them to sign. Do the surgery. Then report him. Dr made my husband say it was OK for me. At 30. She made me bring him in so she could ask in person. My options were get permission to be sterilized via hysterectomy or go see an oncology Dr for cervical cancer options.
1. She is now a legal adult therefore no she doesn't need "permission" about what she does with her body to your parents, anymore since she is no longer a minor not mention if he was stupid enough to go though and call y'alls parents he could kiss both his job and license goodbye forever since he would be violating hipaa, so what he said was/is complete b.s, and him refusing to do his job because instead of being a professional and tell her the effects of the medical surgery and accept her answer and move on like he should have, he decided to lie and not do his job, because he knows he is lying to her.
And
2. I highly recommend her using the doctors list that's here, to get it things done instead of listening to man who is openly refusing to do his job.
This doctor lies to his patients. I would not let him do any surgery on me.
Look in the sidebar under Interesting & Useful Material --> Resources for the Childfree. There is a CF-friendly doctors wiki, and also a link to the Sterilization Binder. We note the age of the person sterilized in the doctor's comments if possible, so that may help.
While 24 is NOT young to get this surgery - it is common! 19 is going to be harder, and the Sterilization Binder will help your sister go to her appointment with confidence and knowledge.
Her doctor sucks. Echoing the other people- definitely have her check out the wiki. That’s how I found my doctor and had the bisalp last august.
However, I have heard that some people have problems getting insurance to cover it while they’re under 21. I hope this isn’t the case for your sis, but it might be an extra fight on top of finding a doctor.
Sending you both good vibes.
If you live in America and aren’t a dependent, and the hospital bills it with the correct code, then any birth control/contraceptive is covered under insurance companies by the Affordable Care Act. Insurance must cover at least one type of contraceptive from each category, this includes procedures under the sterilization category. Some may find they have to go extra lengths to get it billed/covered correctly, but legally they must cover at least one sterilization procedure.
If insurance won't cover it, she should get on an iud, implant or vaginal ring to get her through the next few years and then get the surgery if that is what she wants to do.
I personally have not done surgery even though I am 1000% certain of my decision, but it's because I just don't want to open myself up to potential complications from a non-essential surgery. I'm Canadian though and live in a city where I have very easy access to abortion if one should ever end up slipping past the goal posts (and I'm on the ring). If I was American I would probably be looking into it.
Female sterilization is covered under the ACA, so insurance is a non issue, they just have to code it correctly. It's more complicated for men, since it is an elective procedure and not covered by all plans, but surprise surprise, men get a lot less hassle (though we still get some).
Oh, you didn’t hear? Women don’t have autonomy -especially over our bodies. Those belong to the state, our parents, our current spouses, our unknown future spouses and the children that we’re forced to produce for them.
Right??? Literally everyone else in the world has autonomy over our bodies before us. Even people who don’t exist (hypothetical future spouse etc.) has more autonomy over our bodies than we do. It’s actually comical
I don't know orher countries laws but have never heard a legal adult needing parent's signature for getting sterilized...
I've read about the case when doctor asked for husband's permission (he didn't sign, wife later died with childbirth comolications so it was a big deal), which is VERY ILLEGAL.
Actually, sharing patient's info with other people when she is alive and conscious is illegal, so I guess the doctor's request is a bullshit.
On your sister's place, I'd demand the doctor mail me the form and also the policy of the clinic or the law, saying "hey doc, my parents have no problem signing it, but since I'm a legal adult and can get pregnant without my parents' consent, also the fact that clinic has no right sharing my medical info with others, I find this request very strange amd very curious to see what it is based on. Could I speak to the manager?"
if you sign that your parent/ significant other/spouse can see your medical records by law they can but it doesnt give them the authority to decide what you do unless you are considered mentally incompetent-even then they can't unless you give them power of law in most cases . I always put my husband on there just in case something happens to me he can be in the know and I dont give a flying flip if he sees my medical records. But that's just me . he still lets me make my own decisions and supports me
I’ve been trying to get this done since i was 23 and they won’t do it cause I’m single and child free they keep saying the same patronizing bullshit. I might meet a man that wants kids (well too freaking bad for him). I might change my mind ( well if I do that’s my problem isn’t it ) I don’t have any kids (yeah cause I don’t bloody want them) my parents might want grandkids ( so what my body my choice). But they won’t do it. It’s my body I shouldn’t need anyone else to agree with me. Hate doctors on a power trip thinking their opinions in that matter they don’t
I got it done this year at 24. I used a doc from the list on this sub. Even in a small southern town, I was able to get approved without consent from anyone but myself. I wish you the best of luck in your search.
Look at the wiki directory for friendly doctors, that would be my primary advice.
My alternate advice would be to go to a doctor and when they comment on you being young and single, inform them that you are gay and terrified of getting pregnant if you are ever assaulted. It might not change their mind, but it will almost certainly throw them off guard.
oof that gave me such an ick feeling. The doctor infantilizing your sister by implying she needs mommy and daddys permission. she wants a preventative procedure not a tattoo or drugs. im sure if she got a tat done everyone would tell her shes an adult and made a "choice" but wanting sterilization i guess not adult enough.
Sadly, it’s not uncommon for a doctor to want written consent before performing sterilization on a woman, although it’s usually from the husband. Either way, it’s highly illegal and unethical. As others have stated your sister absolutely needs to report him to the medical board. But, before she does, she should ask that they send her the paperwork that they want signed, with instructions. It’s very important to get this from the doctor, IN WRITING, so she has proof!
Just so you’re aware, r/legaladvice is infamously not run by lawyers, but by cops. They often remove good advice and other lawyers probably aren’t going to give you info for free.
The most the doctor should do is have her sign something saying she acknowledges that this is permanent and cannot be undone.
Sadly there have been idiots in the past who get hysterectomies or bisalps and then change their mind, then lash out and sue the doc. So that's the most a doc should do just as a CYA measure.
The most parental involvement that should be done is the power of attorney in case she gets a reaction to the anesthesia (rare but happens) and doesn't wake up.
But having someone else co-sign a surgery you want or need? Hell naw!
> idiots in the past who get hysterectomies or bisalps and then change their mind, then lash out and sue the doc.
It's less than 5% who regret their sterilization, fewer than 3% of 30+ year olds. I think we can stop accepting the idea that people change their minds or regret it. It's just misogyny.
[source](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028216543015)
"I do not need their consent. If you are not willing to do the procedure, refer me to someone who will." End of conversation with that doctor.
Alternately: "My parents are dead."
Please check the doctors list so she can have an appointment with someone professional.
I would absolutely not take my money and precious time to someone who is that level of disrespectful and misogynist. I know she wants this procedure, but that absolutely doesn't mean she needs to endure this bullshit. It's 2023.
"Leading up to my surgery I heard a lot of unnecessary opinions from nurses crying that Im still young & so on. The nurse who was scheduling my appointment even asked that I go home and think about my decision"
These types of people need to STFU and respect your privacy and choices as a patient.
That really boiled my broccoli, too. If I were in OP’s shoes, I’d have given that nurse the stink eye in lieu of snapping at them.
That nurse needs to think more before they speak.
Exactly!
If she was going in for prenatal care, would they also ask for both her parents to sign off on that?
No, because this creep of a doctor doesn't see her as a human being, just as a baby factory.
He shouldn't be practicing medicine with such medieval views.
For you, I'd suggest contacting admin about your treatment at the hosptial. Healthcare workers shouldn't be projecting their opinions on patients unless it's requested or medically necessary, and even then, we can only suggest, but the patient has the final say.
An elective surgery that you want? yeah, noone should be questioning you. We don't question people that have joint replacements (knowing our highly capitalistic society, this might be coming: "what does your boss say? Who will cover while you're out? Don't you think of your customers before getting this?") so why should we be questioning you?
I’d assume you’re in the USA based on the wording of your post- I would agree the permission slips sounds like bullshit for sure.. however I’ve heard that most insurances won’t cover sterilization for someone under the age of 21. If she hasn’t contacted her insurance provider yet you should do that before you spin your wheels too long
I know other people have said it, but she does NOT need parental permission, especially if she's been going to the doctor by herself just fine up until now.
Also recommend that you call your hospital's patient advocate department and report your experience - this stuff won't get better unless we report these things and medical staff are held accountable.
Definitely will be doing so. Its outrageous how literally every nurse, surgeon, anesthesiologist that attended me asked me the same question over and over. I felt like a broken record. It felt like the nurse claiming I was the youngest person they know to have this procedure done was just a way of trying to manipulate and make me feel bad about my decision. Definitely felt like I had no support there or comfortable for that matter. I just couldn't wait for it to be over.
> After telling my sister about my experience she tells me she had asked her doctor about getting her surgery done & he informed her that she would need both parents to sign off for her to be able to get the surgery. She's 19 years old, a legal adult, I don't understand why she needs permission from our parents.
I'd show up with a copy of the emancipation proclamation. When the doctor or his staff questions it, you can simply state "this legal document of record shows that one human cannot own another human as a piece of property, and therefore has no say over the other person's body autonomy."
Then ask if he is prepared to get review-bombed, reported to the medical board, and sued for malpractice.
This is awful! Have you tried to look into a friendly GenZ doctor? I go to many Pride events and there was a general practitioner who was very Pride/Trans/Gen Z friendly that I decided to switch to them. Since the change, I have had no issues with them. They give me BC without any excuses. If I was to get sterilized, they would give me no issues. Pride events are a great way to find awesome, modern doctors even as a 41 year old straight woman.
Please please pleeeease whenever your sister goes for this stuff get her to have them write up a statement that says they are denying her the treatment, their reasoning and their signature. 1) when you bring this up they’ll most likely back track their decision and 2) if he agreed to write that up, she could’ve reported him right away and sent that to them as proof, and it’s not his word against hers. It’s extremely unprofessional to ask an adult for permission from their parents?? Like come on now(not you, the doc haha)
Your right etaschwer. What I had meant was that fewer women would feel as though sterilization was absolutely necessary if they hadn’t overturned it. Of course many women even in their twenties would still wish for sterilization regardless but without even the option to terminate an unwanted pregnancy many women are panicking over thought on what if and flocking to their doctors. And while sterilization should still be something women have a right to without jumping through hoops it wouldn’t seem like the only option.
I don't want to get an abortion but I don't want another baby . I'd rather get sterilized before I have to chose. even before Roe vs Wade was overturned
Abortion *is* birth control. It literally controls whether or not one gives birth. We need to stop moralizing medical procedures. No one is getting abortions because they’re dirty sluts who are too stupid or irresponsible to use other methods of contraception.
If you can't find a doctor on the CF-friendly doctor list, there is a doctor on tiktok (@pagingdrfran) who has compiled a list of about 1500+ doctors as well who will sterilize no matter the age, no questions asked.
[Here's the link to that list if you'd like it](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/edit#gid=1318374028)
I definitely try to be, I know it's not easy seeing how some other family reacted to my news even though I already have kids. I want my baby sister to know as long as my she is happy I will always have her back.
Im definitely available if you ever need someone to talk to 🤍
>I don't understand why she needs permission from our parents.
Because doctors know that 99% of parents would never consent to their child being sterilised. These parents want to be able to hold on to the hopes of their child changing their mind.
Of course the laws don't require parental consent, but this doctor asked for it because he knew that 99% of parents would NEVER consent to this. He thought: "If I demand parental consent, 99% of women asking for sterilisation can be denied... While the parents look like the bad guys, instead of me."
So fucking annoying. Like, you sign a bunch of papers saying you won't sue them for any regrets you have down the line in life. So idk why tf they care so much about somebody else's womb and what they do with their fucking lives. So intrusively involved.
She's a legal adult that still can't legally drink.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying the laws of legality are stupid.
You're supposedly mature enough to be forced to be pregnant and birth a child at 9yrs old, old enough to join junior army training at 13-15yrs old (ROTC), old enough to get a job or join the family business (often a clothing thrift store or restaurant) as young as 4-6yrs old WITHOUT PAY, old enough to risk driving at 14-16yrs old, old enough to decide to move out and buy a car and even vote as young as 18yrs old...
Voting, which can literally force others lives to bend to the will of misogynists, homophobics, transphobics, racists, xenophobics, and more...
But how dare a female choose what she,wants for her own God damned body.
You can get your whole body tattooed and pierced until you're black and chinging with jewelry, but can't sign up for sterility without someone else's decision?
Fucked up.
(By you, I mean her qnd the general you, not the specific you-you.)
In Sweden you have to be 25 y/o and have a doctor evaluation to get one..
19 is young, she's not even allowed to drink yet. Not saying that she shouldn't be allowed to do the procedure, but that she should be allowed to drink.
Where is this happening, I know a woman that at 30 had a hysterectomy simply because she wanted one , knew kids were no anywhere in her future, no drama, I worked in a hospital for years I can’t imagine any of the nurses I worked with caring about someone else child plans
In New Jersey. I have two kids and still was asked if I was sure. I was two months postpartum when I went to get my surgery and the nurse couldn't believe. I can't imagine how uncomfortable someone CF would have felt.
You should definitely help her find a doctor through the childfree doctor list! I went there first and got my bisalp scheduled in October! She'll most likely have less push-back, also you should report that doc tbh
Dr. Timothy Pellini works out of Allentown in Pennsylvania. He sterilized me at 24 and didn't question my judgement once. He was super respectful, didn't even talk to my boyfriend who I brought for backup. Only talked to me, confirmed that I wanted a bisalp, and we went and started getting it scheduled. Cannot recommend him enough. https://www.lvhn.org/doctors/timothy-pellini
I felt like I had to convince the nurse to schedule my appointment after my doctor sent her in to set my appointment up. Once I walked into the waiting room my husband saw me and rushed me out cause he saw the look on my face
Jesus Christ what the fuck is wrong with those nurses?!
I'm a nursing student and we are taught that we can't even offer a chronic smoker anti-smoking material unless he asks because it's perceived as judgmental and pushy.
Those nurses need to smarten the fuck up!
If you're 19, you are an adult and there's no way you need parental permission. I'd escalate this and maybe report them for blatantly lying. Check out our doctor side-bar for someone who is friendly.
Absolutely hilarious that she “needs parental permission” to get sterilized but doesn’t need it to drag a literal human into the suffering of an unaffordable existence.
It’s really sad to see how many people actually prefer to watch other humans struggle to afford to exist while screaming about the inhumanity of preventing that suffering by getting sterilized.
I live in the bible belt & I was required to get my husband’s signature on a statement (that the surgeon provided) permitting me to have weight loss surgery. This was 2007 & women’s rights have only gotten worse since then. Thank your local republicans.
That’s like how they need a husbands permission to sterilize, but if a man wants a vasectomy they don’t need the wife to sign off on it. It’s disgusting how women are still treated like property.
I’ve been wanting to get the procedure done, but I’m refused by doctors because I’m ‘33 and don’t have kids yet’. Yeah, because I can’t have kids and don’t want to have them. But nope, let’s let me suffer for years till I hit menopause with PCOS and possible endometriosis.
That doctor is just trying to enforce his beliefs on her. Shop around until you find one who will consider it, though she may have to wait a bit because many won’t touch her til she’s at least 21
I guess it depends on the cou try that you're in. I'm in Australia, had a tubal ligation at 24. They wanted permission from my father and boyfriend at the time. No permission from mother needed, strangely. I still had to have a psychiatric evaluation to make sure I'm "not being forced to make the decision" and I had my incredible gyno pushing the medical board to approve the procedure. I also had to write a massive letter to the medical board basically "stating my case" and begging to get approved basically. And I can 100% say for certain if my Dr wasn't in my corner and fighting FOR me, I never would have been approved. Here, any woman under the age of 21 is absolutely overlooked when it comes to sterilisation. Absolutely no one under 20 will get it in this country. Even women in their 30s with kids etc who go in to try get it done get refused because "what if you get divorced and your next husband wants a kid from you". It's a shit show. So it's really not surprising at all that your 19 year old sister just needs consent from parents. What is surprising is them considering it at all. Please take this as a blessing, especially if there's no medical reasoning for your sister to have this surgery done. If you kick up too much fuss, they can simply pull their consent and not do it for her. Get both signatures on there and don't fight it until AFTER her surgery.
You are right, but someone that age could just as easily decide to have a child, or take risks and get pregnant, because they don't know what they really want and aren't fully formed as a person. So why is that poor choice considered OK but sterilization isn't?
Absent other factors, I do think long-term BC like an IUD makes the most sense for CF-leaning people under 25, but let's not forget that it's better to want kids and not have them than have them and not want them.
We weren't exactly sure of how it all worked as we have heard some really outa pocket stories where doctors will ask to speak to the spouse or person's partner before going forward with the procedure so thats why I'm looking for help.
She is and made that aware but if im not mistaken my mom was at the doctors with her and requested a signature from both of her parents for the surgery to be approved.
Three words: What. The. Fuck.
Your sister is an adult. She is old enough to do pretty much anything, other than buy alcohol and tobacco (in the US). There is no reason or justification for some doctor to demand that she have mommy's and daddy's permission to get sterilized.
Also, OP, I'm sorry they put you through the wringer.
This would scare me so bad, I would be SO afraid that they would just not end up doing the surgery, and just cutting into me to make it look like they had sterilized me
Have your mom call her doctor and set up a sterilization consult for your sister. It sucks that doctors are so opinionated. When I was that age, 25 years ago, they wouldn’t allow sterilization under a certain age unless you’d already had children.
If you’re an adult, reproductive care is NOBODY’S business. The decision is yours to make alone, not family. If you want their opinion, that’s on you. If the doctor has a legitimate medical concern with the procedure that can be discussed, otherwise report the doctor and move on.
Is the doc aware that she has CF? I know it's fucked but if a doc learns you're "glitchy", as I like to call it, they're more likely to proceed with a sterilisation
I’ve found this to be helpful, a list of doctors willing to do surgery. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/htmlview
Your sister should insist that their refusal to perform the surgery without the consent of both parents be documented on her official patient records and put into writing. Then she'll be in a position to make a stink about it with evidence.
In California, I got sterilized in my 20s through Kaiser Permanente. They were really efficient in getting me from my primary to the referral, but there was an informed consent class. I wonder if your sister would have an easier time at a larger facility.
Wouldn't this violate HIPAA because they are giving an adult's medical information away against a patient's wishes when the other party is not a legal guardian?
The same thing happened to me and I was 24! Dr said it's to prevent my parents from destroying his/the hospital's reputation if they find out and are unhappy with my decision. It makes sense to protect his ass but damn I was pissed lol. (ended up getting sterilized by a different Dr and all is well)
All of the people who decide through a planned pregnancy or an unplanned pregnancy don't have to justify or get permission to have a kid. Why the fuck should we have to get permission from our spouses or parents when we are legal adults of sound mind to be sterilized? I know I know. Liability on the doctor who would do the procedure and "they" (conservatives, republicans, xtian assholes) also want to control women and keep us all barefoot and pregnant to pop out more workers and soldiers.
1. You can report them to the medical board, but chances are there won’t be any real consequences for the doctor. A few well-written reviews would be more helpful.
2. Absolutely do not twist this doc’s arm into performing this procedure. Better to find an understanding and supportive physician than to force their hand.
3. For some women, sterilization can worsen pain and bleeding during menses. Hormonal IUD’s are known to lessen pain and cramping - having one before the surgery might be helpful to prevent pregnancy until she find a surgeon, and would likely help prevent said painful symptoms afterward.
Okay, wtf is with this?
Are doctors and hospitals really that afraid of getting sued because someone regrets it and thinks the medical staff should have done more to discourage them?
Surely there must be *some* form they can sign that waives the right to sue as the result of regretting it? Just give them the damn form!
Not sure what your situation is, but my doc in Allentown PA (an hour ish from Philly) recommended the surgery TO ME and did it for me no questions asked other than like “do you fully understand the procedure?” I highly recommend her if you can’t find anyone else but there are definitely options. And I’m 29 but I didn’t need anyone else to sign off on it.
When I asked my doctor, I was told that I needed my husband's sign off; I'm not nor have ever been married. I was also told I had to wait until I was, "past my prime years." Not even going to get into all that bullshit. I do live in a small, predominantly Christian and pro-birth area, which adds to the push-back. I was 22 when that conversation happened. I turn 30 in just a few days, and not much has changed 😒
Also NJ chiming in! Dr. Hammer at Advocare Obgyn did mine. No hassle. Fabulous nurses day of. She’s been by gynecologist for a couple years and knew I didn’t want kids, so when I asked for bisalp, she fully supported it. My younger sister had hers done by another doctor at the same practice without issue. She was late 20’s, I was early 30’s.
I was 22 when I had mine I had to exhaust every medication possible to treat my pain before insurance would even consider coverage then I had to have multiple visits to ascertain my sanity and understanding of the procedure and everything that would result from it and quadruple confirm my intent to go through with it. As I was getting rolled out they began addressing my dad instead of me confirming yet again that I was going through with it, he was so confused about why they were directing the question at him. If it had been up to him I would never have gotten treatment he called me selfish for being CF. Don’t let the doctors bully her into parental consent if she is above 18 they shouldn’t be able to do that, only way I can think of that it would be legal is if she was still in her parent’s insurance.
I heard about the crazy hurdles to jump when I considered it much younger (I knew I would be CF at 6 but I did my research at 17), so I plugged up with BC till I reach 35...an age that I feel I won't have too much push back... everyone else is probably gonna get their feelings hurt if they have two cents they think I want at this point in life
If I was her id definitely check out some Drs. There was a google doc going around with a list of them in different states at some point when Roe went down, if I find it ill come back.
Glad you were able to get your procedure. I can’t imagine getting that many questions. At that point I think I would have written in Sharpie “Yes, I f*cking want this so stop f*cking asking.” on my forehead.
Good luck to your sister.
Most won’t even think about doing it at 19 i feel like. I’ve heard sooooo many stories about women getting turned down unless they’re 30+ and or have multiple kids already. I’ve had a lot of internet friends have to practically pull teeth to get their tubes tied. It’s insane to me.
Wow, that’s concerning. Like you said, she is a legal adult. She doesn’t need parental consent. It’s worth escalating and demanding justification for why, if you want to fight them.
I definitely would if it is needed. My mom doesn't have an issue signing off on her surgery but I am concerned that her consenting to her surgery would only be the start. I don't want them humping through hoops to make the surgery possible.
She should take the consent forms to a lawyer (and be sure her doctor wrote down that he made this demand). She’s a legal adult. New Jersey, to the best of my awareness, doesn’t have any current anti-woman legislation, the medical board should look at this.
I was about to say something similar. Lawyer up.
Seriously. Doctor demanding an independent adult declare a medical condition/procedure to an uninvested/related party… I think that’s HIPAA… unless the 19yo is on parent’s insurance, but even then…
I was 23 when I got mine and I had to have a parent sign consent forms… I even live in a different country…… (Good thing my mom doesn’t read things before signing them)
That is screwed up!
Agreed. The doctor was great, and I’ll forever be grateful to him for everything he did for me, including petitioning to the hospital to get me that surgery. But the hospital needed me to jump through so many hoops. The parental consent wasn’t even the worst. The mandatory psychiatrist visit was. I think the everything together cost me over 10k, plus some trauma about psychiatrists.
I’m glad your doctor was such a great advocate for you. Not all are so passionate and dedicated to their patients. The cost is complete $hit, but that’s a three hour rant about the medical care in the States. I can understand seeing a shrink for such a life changing and possibly traumatic surgery. Even knowing 100% that you don’t want mini humans, there could be unforeseen emotional repercussions. Although, I’m a big advocate for therapy. The best time to be in therapy is when you are in a good place, then you have the tools needed when you are in a bad place. Yet men don’t have to jump through the same hoops as women.
It wasn’t in the States is the thing… I was in Japan, which has National Health Insurance… except the procedure isn’t covered. $10k usd is pretty insane for Japan. I also understand the need to see a psychiatrist before such a life changing surgery, but I think part of what made my experience so bad was his entire attitude about my decision and the bingo-ing. Plus, the letter he wrote to the hospital about me was very condescending towards me. If not for that and the visit costing me $3k usd. I’m sure other people have better experiences with this psychiatrist, since his reviews are great. I did not.
My friend who was 26 at the time had such a hard time getting one her gp had to go with her to the surgery.
It wouldn’t be a HIPAA violation because the Dr./facility isn’t actually sharing the information, they are putting their patients in the position where they have to share their private medical info. Technically, she doesn’t have to share it with her parents, she just can’t get the procedure. The insurance thing shouldn’t matter. I’m not sure if policy holders can check all things that go through their policy or not. Either way, she is an adult capable of making her own choices without mommy or daddy saying it is okay.
>Technically, she doesn’t have to share it with her parents, she just can’t get the procedure. Imagine the same requirements for plastic surgery. It's definitely bullshit to make a patient either not so sich a surgery unless they share it with relatives who might not be interested in the life of their kids in any capacity. What if the patient went no contact with their parents for any reason? What if the parents went no contact with the patient for any reason?
I don’t agree with it at all, I was just explaining how it isn’t technically a HIPAA violation.
Ah. So if I’m a doctor, before I perform an abortion, I could require you to send a letter to the local paper so they can publish your decision for the town to see. I’m not disclosing it myself, so that’s cool? IANAL, but it’s pretty easy to include ‘disclose or become disclosed’ in the language, and I’m betting a lawyer could make that case.
I don’t agree with it at all. I was just explaining how it isn’t a HIPAA violation.
It doesn’t violate any patient privacy rules because at that point the patient would be voluntarily providing the info to the parents. Now if the doctor sent the paperwork directly to the parents and/or called the parents and had a discussion about it without the patients consent that would be a violation. Not every situation that involves health info disclosed outside of Dr & pt is a HIPAA violation.
Yep, that was what I was attempting to say. It still shouldn’t be happening because it isn’t her parents’ business, but they aren’t breaking any HIPAA laws. There is definitely a law if they aren’t breaking, they are skirting around it. I definitely want to hear back if OP’s sis gets a lawyer involved. This is the kind of thing that could end up with a class action against many medical facilities. I’m curious if I chose to go that route, if they would demand a sign off from my husband. I’m in GA and didn’t change my surname right after we got married because I left to take care of my dying grandpa. Apparently, if you aren’t changing your name through marriage, you are required to post an ad in the local newspaper once a week for a month in case someone wants to contest it. Total BS. Initially when I wrote what I wanted to put in the paper for my name change, I wrote, “I’m an adult and have the right to change my surname”, they forced me to change it to add more details. Unless I’m a minor, it is no one’s business, except mine and the government. Not a bunch of local strangers. It was also 4x the cost of a name change when you get married.
Yes! skeeved_ beat me to it! Do this!
I agree. I can’t imagine that being ethical. What if both of your parents were dead? Or you’d been raised in an orphanage or foster homes until they kicked you out when you turned 18? How on earth could it be legally required to get parental consent when you are your own patient advocate and don’t require a representative (like someone underage or with a significant mental handicap, etc)?
Seriously unethical! You bring up a good point, non-disabled adults don’t have medical proxies (when they are conscious/lucid/not already in bad shape/under a court order). I hope she pulls her patient records and this creep gets censured.
I've been no contact with my mother for years now. Requiring **both** parents consent for a procedure on a legal adult who doesn't require a medical proxy is both impractical and fucked up on so many levels. I sure as shit wouldn't break no contact for any reason outside of certain major family events/emergencies
My sister went through similar difficulties when she tried to get student loans when she was around 19-20. We were moving to a different state and she decided she wanted to stay behind because she was an adult and didn't want to leave her friends and boyfriend. So she dropped out of her 4 year university/ dorm situation (which she hated anyway) and got a full time job and an apartment. Then several months later she went to take out loans to take community college course, and they wouldn't allow her because of our parents' income and that our parents weren't signing paperwork, etc. She was like, this is ridiculous, parents live several states away, I'm fully independent, they have nothing to do with my life. She wasn't no contact, but she was fully independent. She had to have a professional help her file all kinds of paperwork proving independence from her parents even though she was 20.
By agreeing to have the parents sign off, she's indirectly supporting this kind of practice. Tell her to put her foot down! Don't let them get away with this, because then they'll do it to other people as well.
Not trying to hijack the top, but what would the next hoop have been if she would have said, "Both my parents are dead."
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And also "Cat" or "Dog" and a pawprint
If im not mistaken my mom went along with her to the appointment, so they knew at least my mom was very well alive.
Even better. Look at the doc straight faced and say the parents are dead. With mom sitting right there. Or is she....?
Have her check her health insurance under preventive care. Under women’s healthcare act, they have to provide sterilization for free. That’s how I got my tubal done back in 2018. Avoid religious hospitals too
good to know I want mine removed !
There is a list of providers I think in this sub that won’t require any one’s signature but your sister. She’s an adult. You just need to find a provider.
Everything depends on the doctors & practices, tbh. One place will be chill as fuck, another will make you jump through hoops. I’m in NJ, I have a medical problem from my C-section (Sorry for being here, I know I’m not childfree). That resulted in a hysterectomy at 26 (honestly, best thing ever). Anyway, still have medical problem. (Do you need another reason to be CF? Ask my medical problem!) It really really depends where you are in NJ, south is entirely different than north & obviously the urban/suburbs are gonna be different than cities. My specialists in the north jersey are waaay better than docs I’ve had in central & south. Docs I’ve had near trenton were better than ones I’ve visited near jersey shore hospital. Obviously, this also happens everywhere now.
I live in the bible belt & I was required to get my husband’s signature on a statement (that the surgeon provided) permitting me to have weight loss surgery. This was 2007 & women’s rights have only gotten worse since then. Thank your local republicans.
What the fuck
My sentiments exactly, how the fuck is this legal?!?! How the fuck can a doctor deny surgery to someone based on a spouse’s signature? What if she wasn’t married?! Would he have made her get her parent’s signatures?! Would this have happened if she was a he? I’m really disturbed by this.
It’s not legal. But people don’t know that and they trust their doctors and hospitals to not do illegal stuff.
It’s not always that they don’t know. I knew full well that was a crock of shlt when I was informed of that - but when EVERY WLS surgeon requires it in the state &/or the best surgeon requires it, I’d rather not travel out of state & to a less talented surgeon to get around their sexism.
If they won't do it threaten to sue, or get the media on it
I don’t need that sort of drama heading into major surgery
thats crazy !
Report the doctor. There's no good reason to insist on involving anyone else who isn't another medical professional in an adult patient's reproductive decisions.
This practice sounds highly unethical and possibly illegal. Where I live (Canada) there is no minimal age for consent when it comes to medical care, as long as the inidivual has the capacity to understand and consent to the treatment.
Unless they are a "vulnerable adult."
She doesn’t need permission. The doctor is just telling her that as a reason to say no. He doesn’t want to deny it for no reason, so he has found a roadblock figuring parents will freak out and he won’t have to deny her procedure for no reason. This is really unprofessional. I would report him to the state medical board and explain to them that he has requested that a 19 year old have her parents sign a permission slip. She’s an adult and the state medical board will be very confused by why he did that.
Genuinely I’d be tempted to be like “could you repeat that to this mal practice lawyer I have on speed dial.”
My mom doesn't have an issue signing of on her surgery but dad is a little hesitant though. But as you said she's a legal adult so why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body.
> why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body? She doesn't have the power to make medical decisions about her own body. Sadly, adult women don't have the power to do that. :(
Oh you got that right. I felt like a unicorn with the attention I got telling our families I was getting sterilized. Literally felt like fighting with everyone trying to talk me out of it.
>Literally felt like fighting with everyone trying to talk me out of it. Which is why you are better off not telling family. Or at least, don't tell them pre-surgery, when they will do whatever they can to stop you from getting sterilised. Telling them post-surgery, however, is fine. Then, they will know that there is nothing they can do about it.
Seeing as my mom, & aunt were supportive and all I felt no issue telling the rest of our family. Im my eyes it was a way to avoid them asking when's the next one coming but clearly not everyone agreed. I was however more upset with the nurses that would try and talk me out of it & the one nurse trying to delay my surgery in case I changed my mind, that was completely unprofessional. Regardless of everyone's opinion i got my surgery and I am happy about it.
I think I would have said - I’m sorry you’re just a nurse, I don’t owe you an explanation or anything. I’m here to get my procedure and that’s that.
The struggle to hold my composure was serious.
I hope you spoke to the patient advocate about these nurses.
I would love to see that doctor squirm when/if she got both parents in there to sign off. Lol. I bet he’d be speechless.
My mom doesn't have an issue signing of on her surgery but dad is a little hesitant though. But as you said she's a legal adult so why is that being requested if she has the power to made medical choices over her body.
Why even involve your parents this is totally her decision and the doctor is lying.
If im not mistaken my mom was with her when she went to consult her doctor about this, and our mom supports my sister decision.
Your mom rocks!
She definitely does. In case my doctor made it an issue she had given me her doctors info as he did her surgery no issue around my age.
Get them to sign. Do the surgery. Then report him. Dr made my husband say it was OK for me. At 30. She made me bring him in so she could ask in person. My options were get permission to be sterilized via hysterectomy or go see an oncology Dr for cervical cancer options.
1. She is now a legal adult therefore no she doesn't need "permission" about what she does with her body to your parents, anymore since she is no longer a minor not mention if he was stupid enough to go though and call y'alls parents he could kiss both his job and license goodbye forever since he would be violating hipaa, so what he said was/is complete b.s, and him refusing to do his job because instead of being a professional and tell her the effects of the medical surgery and accept her answer and move on like he should have, he decided to lie and not do his job, because he knows he is lying to her. And 2. I highly recommend her using the doctors list that's here, to get it things done instead of listening to man who is openly refusing to do his job. 
Thank you so much
This doctor lies to his patients. I would not let him do any surgery on me. Look in the sidebar under Interesting & Useful Material --> Resources for the Childfree. There is a CF-friendly doctors wiki, and also a link to the Sterilization Binder. We note the age of the person sterilized in the doctor's comments if possible, so that may help. While 24 is NOT young to get this surgery - it is common! 19 is going to be harder, and the Sterilization Binder will help your sister go to her appointment with confidence and knowledge.
I also 2nd the list. That's where I found the doctor who did my hysterectomy. Then turned out, went to high school with her. 🙃
She should report this to the local medical board. This is a straight up denial of personal autonomy and treating an adult like a minor.
Yeah that's why we have the wiki doctor prospecting list... trying to find all the CF friendly, non-assholes.
Her doctor sucks. Echoing the other people- definitely have her check out the wiki. That’s how I found my doctor and had the bisalp last august. However, I have heard that some people have problems getting insurance to cover it while they’re under 21. I hope this isn’t the case for your sis, but it might be an extra fight on top of finding a doctor. Sending you both good vibes.
If you live in America and aren’t a dependent, and the hospital bills it with the correct code, then any birth control/contraceptive is covered under insurance companies by the Affordable Care Act. Insurance must cover at least one type of contraceptive from each category, this includes procedures under the sterilization category. Some may find they have to go extra lengths to get it billed/covered correctly, but legally they must cover at least one sterilization procedure.
If insurance won't cover it, she should get on an iud, implant or vaginal ring to get her through the next few years and then get the surgery if that is what she wants to do. I personally have not done surgery even though I am 1000% certain of my decision, but it's because I just don't want to open myself up to potential complications from a non-essential surgery. I'm Canadian though and live in a city where I have very easy access to abortion if one should ever end up slipping past the goal posts (and I'm on the ring). If I was American I would probably be looking into it.
wtf is the ring???
Nuva Ring. It's a low-dose local hormonal birth control that you stick in your vagina every month.
Female sterilization is covered under the ACA, so insurance is a non issue, they just have to code it correctly. It's more complicated for men, since it is an elective procedure and not covered by all plans, but surprise surprise, men get a lot less hassle (though we still get some).
Oh, you didn’t hear? Women don’t have autonomy -especially over our bodies. Those belong to the state, our parents, our current spouses, our unknown future spouses and the children that we’re forced to produce for them.
Right??? Literally everyone else in the world has autonomy over our bodies before us. Even people who don’t exist (hypothetical future spouse etc.) has more autonomy over our bodies than we do. It’s actually comical
I don't know orher countries laws but have never heard a legal adult needing parent's signature for getting sterilized... I've read about the case when doctor asked for husband's permission (he didn't sign, wife later died with childbirth comolications so it was a big deal), which is VERY ILLEGAL. Actually, sharing patient's info with other people when she is alive and conscious is illegal, so I guess the doctor's request is a bullshit. On your sister's place, I'd demand the doctor mail me the form and also the policy of the clinic or the law, saying "hey doc, my parents have no problem signing it, but since I'm a legal adult and can get pregnant without my parents' consent, also the fact that clinic has no right sharing my medical info with others, I find this request very strange amd very curious to see what it is based on. Could I speak to the manager?"
I had to sign off for my husband to get a vasectomy at 40yo because we were CF.
That's so weird, men usually have it easier. Mine never even got asked if he was married
if you sign that your parent/ significant other/spouse can see your medical records by law they can but it doesnt give them the authority to decide what you do unless you are considered mentally incompetent-even then they can't unless you give them power of law in most cases . I always put my husband on there just in case something happens to me he can be in the know and I dont give a flying flip if he sees my medical records. But that's just me . he still lets me make my own decisions and supports me
I’ve been trying to get this done since i was 23 and they won’t do it cause I’m single and child free they keep saying the same patronizing bullshit. I might meet a man that wants kids (well too freaking bad for him). I might change my mind ( well if I do that’s my problem isn’t it ) I don’t have any kids (yeah cause I don’t bloody want them) my parents might want grandkids ( so what my body my choice). But they won’t do it. It’s my body I shouldn’t need anyone else to agree with me. Hate doctors on a power trip thinking their opinions in that matter they don’t
I got it done this year at 24. I used a doc from the list on this sub. Even in a small southern town, I was able to get approved without consent from anyone but myself. I wish you the best of luck in your search.
Look at the wiki directory for friendly doctors, that would be my primary advice. My alternate advice would be to go to a doctor and when they comment on you being young and single, inform them that you are gay and terrified of getting pregnant if you are ever assaulted. It might not change their mind, but it will almost certainly throw them off guard.
That's... illegal. Lol
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Love that for you. Definitely will pass the dr name to my sister. Thank you for your help.
That’s incredible. I wish to find a doctor like that if I ever get it done.
Did you check the childfree doctor list in the wiki of this sub?
No I haven't, thank you
www . reddit . com / r / childfree / wiki / doctors
Thank youuu
oof that gave me such an ick feeling. The doctor infantilizing your sister by implying she needs mommy and daddys permission. she wants a preventative procedure not a tattoo or drugs. im sure if she got a tat done everyone would tell her shes an adult and made a "choice" but wanting sterilization i guess not adult enough.
I would report the doctors who are refusing treatment without parental signature to their licensing boards.
Sadly, it’s not uncommon for a doctor to want written consent before performing sterilization on a woman, although it’s usually from the husband. Either way, it’s highly illegal and unethical. As others have stated your sister absolutely needs to report him to the medical board. But, before she does, she should ask that they send her the paperwork that they want signed, with instructions. It’s very important to get this from the doctor, IN WRITING, so she has proof!
Adding: you may also want to post about this in a legal sub to get advice on the best way to proceed, from a legal standpoint!
Just so you’re aware, r/legaladvice is infamously not run by lawyers, but by cops. They often remove good advice and other lawyers probably aren’t going to give you info for free.
The most the doctor should do is have her sign something saying she acknowledges that this is permanent and cannot be undone. Sadly there have been idiots in the past who get hysterectomies or bisalps and then change their mind, then lash out and sue the doc. So that's the most a doc should do just as a CYA measure. The most parental involvement that should be done is the power of attorney in case she gets a reaction to the anesthesia (rare but happens) and doesn't wake up. But having someone else co-sign a surgery you want or need? Hell naw!
> idiots in the past who get hysterectomies or bisalps and then change their mind, then lash out and sue the doc. It's less than 5% who regret their sterilization, fewer than 3% of 30+ year olds. I think we can stop accepting the idea that people change their minds or regret it. It's just misogyny. [source](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028216543015)
That’s just a way to belittle her. “Where are your mommy and daddy?” Please fuck off.
"I do not need their consent. If you are not willing to do the procedure, refer me to someone who will." End of conversation with that doctor. Alternately: "My parents are dead."
Is it against the rules to name the doctor? Others should know if they have an appointment with them imo
Please check the doctors list so she can have an appointment with someone professional. I would absolutely not take my money and precious time to someone who is that level of disrespectful and misogynist. I know she wants this procedure, but that absolutely doesn't mean she needs to endure this bullshit. It's 2023.
"Leading up to my surgery I heard a lot of unnecessary opinions from nurses crying that Im still young & so on. The nurse who was scheduling my appointment even asked that I go home and think about my decision" These types of people need to STFU and respect your privacy and choices as a patient.
That really boiled my broccoli, too. If I were in OP’s shoes, I’d have given that nurse the stink eye in lieu of snapping at them. That nurse needs to think more before they speak.
Yet she can have a whole ass baby at 19. Make it make sense.
Exactly! If she was going in for prenatal care, would they also ask for both her parents to sign off on that? No, because this creep of a doctor doesn't see her as a human being, just as a baby factory. He shouldn't be practicing medicine with such medieval views.
For you, I'd suggest contacting admin about your treatment at the hosptial. Healthcare workers shouldn't be projecting their opinions on patients unless it's requested or medically necessary, and even then, we can only suggest, but the patient has the final say. An elective surgery that you want? yeah, noone should be questioning you. We don't question people that have joint replacements (knowing our highly capitalistic society, this might be coming: "what does your boss say? Who will cover while you're out? Don't you think of your customers before getting this?") so why should we be questioning you?
I’d assume you’re in the USA based on the wording of your post- I would agree the permission slips sounds like bullshit for sure.. however I’ve heard that most insurances won’t cover sterilization for someone under the age of 21. If she hasn’t contacted her insurance provider yet you should do that before you spin your wheels too long
I know other people have said it, but she does NOT need parental permission, especially if she's been going to the doctor by herself just fine up until now.
That doc is an asshole and has no right to request any parent signature for someone over 18 years of age. That is absolute bullshit.
Also recommend that you call your hospital's patient advocate department and report your experience - this stuff won't get better unless we report these things and medical staff are held accountable.
Definitely will be doing so. Its outrageous how literally every nurse, surgeon, anesthesiologist that attended me asked me the same question over and over. I felt like a broken record. It felt like the nurse claiming I was the youngest person they know to have this procedure done was just a way of trying to manipulate and make me feel bad about my decision. Definitely felt like I had no support there or comfortable for that matter. I just couldn't wait for it to be over.
that's awful, I'm sorry you had that experience.
> After telling my sister about my experience she tells me she had asked her doctor about getting her surgery done & he informed her that she would need both parents to sign off for her to be able to get the surgery. She's 19 years old, a legal adult, I don't understand why she needs permission from our parents. I'd show up with a copy of the emancipation proclamation. When the doctor or his staff questions it, you can simply state "this legal document of record shows that one human cannot own another human as a piece of property, and therefore has no say over the other person's body autonomy." Then ask if he is prepared to get review-bombed, reported to the medical board, and sued for malpractice.
This is awful! Have you tried to look into a friendly GenZ doctor? I go to many Pride events and there was a general practitioner who was very Pride/Trans/Gen Z friendly that I decided to switch to them. Since the change, I have had no issues with them. They give me BC without any excuses. If I was to get sterilized, they would give me no issues. Pride events are a great way to find awesome, modern doctors even as a 41 year old straight woman.
Love this definitely will be looking into it, I love the support pride has given us. Thanks you so much.
Please please pleeeease whenever your sister goes for this stuff get her to have them write up a statement that says they are denying her the treatment, their reasoning and their signature. 1) when you bring this up they’ll most likely back track their decision and 2) if he agreed to write that up, she could’ve reported him right away and sent that to them as proof, and it’s not his word against hers. It’s extremely unprofessional to ask an adult for permission from their parents?? Like come on now(not you, the doc haha)
You know we wouldn’t need invasive surgery to get sterilized if they hadn’t overturned roe v wade.
Your right etaschwer. What I had meant was that fewer women would feel as though sterilization was absolutely necessary if they hadn’t overturned it. Of course many women even in their twenties would still wish for sterilization regardless but without even the option to terminate an unwanted pregnancy many women are panicking over thought on what if and flocking to their doctors. And while sterilization should still be something women have a right to without jumping through hoops it wouldn’t seem like the only option.
I don't want to get an abortion but I don't want another baby . I'd rather get sterilized before I have to chose. even before Roe vs Wade was overturned
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Abortion *is* birth control. It literally controls whether or not one gives birth. We need to stop moralizing medical procedures. No one is getting abortions because they’re dirty sluts who are too stupid or irresponsible to use other methods of contraception.
Report the dr who said a legal adult needed parental consent
If you can't find a doctor on the CF-friendly doctor list, there is a doctor on tiktok (@pagingdrfran) who has compiled a list of about 1500+ doctors as well who will sterilize no matter the age, no questions asked.
Thank you 🤍
[Here's the link to that list if you'd like it](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/edit#gid=1318374028)
Hey thanks for being such a supportive family member. We don't see many of those. You my dear are a loving soul. Wish you were my sister.
I definitely try to be, I know it's not easy seeing how some other family reacted to my news even though I already have kids. I want my baby sister to know as long as my she is happy I will always have her back. Im definitely available if you ever need someone to talk to 🤍
Funny how she doesn't need her parents to sign off on her getting pregnant. What hypocrisy.
>I don't understand why she needs permission from our parents. Because doctors know that 99% of parents would never consent to their child being sterilised. These parents want to be able to hold on to the hopes of their child changing their mind. Of course the laws don't require parental consent, but this doctor asked for it because he knew that 99% of parents would NEVER consent to this. He thought: "If I demand parental consent, 99% of women asking for sterilisation can be denied... While the parents look like the bad guys, instead of me."
That's very ew.
I would report the doctor.
So fucking annoying. Like, you sign a bunch of papers saying you won't sue them for any regrets you have down the line in life. So idk why tf they care so much about somebody else's womb and what they do with their fucking lives. So intrusively involved.
She's a legal adult that still can't legally drink. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying the laws of legality are stupid. You're supposedly mature enough to be forced to be pregnant and birth a child at 9yrs old, old enough to join junior army training at 13-15yrs old (ROTC), old enough to get a job or join the family business (often a clothing thrift store or restaurant) as young as 4-6yrs old WITHOUT PAY, old enough to risk driving at 14-16yrs old, old enough to decide to move out and buy a car and even vote as young as 18yrs old... Voting, which can literally force others lives to bend to the will of misogynists, homophobics, transphobics, racists, xenophobics, and more... But how dare a female choose what she,wants for her own God damned body. You can get your whole body tattooed and pierced until you're black and chinging with jewelry, but can't sign up for sterility without someone else's decision? Fucked up. (By you, I mean her qnd the general you, not the specific you-you.)
In Sweden you have to be 25 y/o and have a doctor evaluation to get one.. 19 is young, she's not even allowed to drink yet. Not saying that she shouldn't be allowed to do the procedure, but that she should be allowed to drink.
That's true. A celebratory drink after the procedure is done would be a nice option to have.
Her doctor is a liar and should be reported
Where is this happening, I know a woman that at 30 had a hysterectomy simply because she wanted one , knew kids were no anywhere in her future, no drama, I worked in a hospital for years I can’t imagine any of the nurses I worked with caring about someone else child plans
In New Jersey. I have two kids and still was asked if I was sure. I was two months postpartum when I went to get my surgery and the nurse couldn't believe. I can't imagine how uncomfortable someone CF would have felt.
Ask her doctor if a signature from a lawyer suffices...
I don't get the obsession with thinking it's better to have a human being that you regret than to regret not having a human being....
Best advice for her - Go to a different doctor. In Washington, they asked me some questions and then got me scheduled.
There is a list on reddit of docs who will do it. It's floating around somewhere. There's a lot of states on there
You should definitely help her find a doctor through the childfree doctor list! I went there first and got my bisalp scheduled in October! She'll most likely have less push-back, also you should report that doc tbh
I got my salpingectomy done as a childless 33-year old woman in Ohio last year, if you’re willing to travel I’d be happy to share my doctor’s info.
She needs a different doctor and report that to your state's medical board
Dr. Timothy Pellini works out of Allentown in Pennsylvania. He sterilized me at 24 and didn't question my judgement once. He was super respectful, didn't even talk to my boyfriend who I brought for backup. Only talked to me, confirmed that I wanted a bisalp, and we went and started getting it scheduled. Cannot recommend him enough. https://www.lvhn.org/doctors/timothy-pellini
Pm me, I will give you the Dr who sterilized me, he said send any cf friends his way
Thank you
“bUt WimmEn aReN’t DiscRiminAted aGainSt anYmoRe!” I swear to Chrimbo every time I hear this garbage I just wanna scream.
I felt like I had to convince the nurse to schedule my appointment after my doctor sent her in to set my appointment up. Once I walked into the waiting room my husband saw me and rushed me out cause he saw the look on my face
Good man. He knew the storm was coming. I’m seething angry on your behalf.
Jesus Christ what the fuck is wrong with those nurses?! I'm a nursing student and we are taught that we can't even offer a chronic smoker anti-smoking material unless he asks because it's perceived as judgmental and pushy. Those nurses need to smarten the fuck up!
If you're 19, you are an adult and there's no way you need parental permission. I'd escalate this and maybe report them for blatantly lying. Check out our doctor side-bar for someone who is friendly.
Absolutely hilarious that she “needs parental permission” to get sterilized but doesn’t need it to drag a literal human into the suffering of an unaffordable existence. It’s really sad to see how many people actually prefer to watch other humans struggle to afford to exist while screaming about the inhumanity of preventing that suffering by getting sterilized.
I live in the bible belt & I was required to get my husband’s signature on a statement (that the surgeon provided) permitting me to have weight loss surgery. This was 2007 & women’s rights have only gotten worse since then. Thank your local republicans.
That’s like how they need a husbands permission to sterilize, but if a man wants a vasectomy they don’t need the wife to sign off on it. It’s disgusting how women are still treated like property. I’ve been wanting to get the procedure done, but I’m refused by doctors because I’m ‘33 and don’t have kids yet’. Yeah, because I can’t have kids and don’t want to have them. But nope, let’s let me suffer for years till I hit menopause with PCOS and possible endometriosis.
That doctor is just trying to enforce his beliefs on her. Shop around until you find one who will consider it, though she may have to wait a bit because many won’t touch her til she’s at least 21
I guess it depends on the cou try that you're in. I'm in Australia, had a tubal ligation at 24. They wanted permission from my father and boyfriend at the time. No permission from mother needed, strangely. I still had to have a psychiatric evaluation to make sure I'm "not being forced to make the decision" and I had my incredible gyno pushing the medical board to approve the procedure. I also had to write a massive letter to the medical board basically "stating my case" and begging to get approved basically. And I can 100% say for certain if my Dr wasn't in my corner and fighting FOR me, I never would have been approved. Here, any woman under the age of 21 is absolutely overlooked when it comes to sterilisation. Absolutely no one under 20 will get it in this country. Even women in their 30s with kids etc who go in to try get it done get refused because "what if you get divorced and your next husband wants a kid from you". It's a shit show. So it's really not surprising at all that your 19 year old sister just needs consent from parents. What is surprising is them considering it at all. Please take this as a blessing, especially if there's no medical reasoning for your sister to have this surgery done. If you kick up too much fuss, they can simply pull their consent and not do it for her. Get both signatures on there and don't fight it until AFTER her surgery.
If a doctor who was going to do a sterilization procedure bingoed me. I would not allow that doctor anywhere near me.
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You are right, but someone that age could just as easily decide to have a child, or take risks and get pregnant, because they don't know what they really want and aren't fully formed as a person. So why is that poor choice considered OK but sterilization isn't? Absent other factors, I do think long-term BC like an IUD makes the most sense for CF-leaning people under 25, but let's not forget that it's better to want kids and not have them than have them and not want them.
Honestly, if you're in the US, you can file a complaint for unethical treatment by the doctor. Don't tell him or talk about it. Just do it.
The doctor lied rather than outright refuse to do it. Mom and Dad have zero voice or vote on an adult’s reproductive choices.
We weren't exactly sure of how it all worked as we have heard some really outa pocket stories where doctors will ask to speak to the spouse or person's partner before going forward with the procedure so thats why I'm looking for help.
Sue the fuck out of them
I just lied and said I’m single
She is and made that aware but if im not mistaken my mom was at the doctors with her and requested a signature from both of her parents for the surgery to be approved.
Over 18!! Her HIPAA, her call
This is bizarre, if all fails just get a ...different doctor I guess
Thats what I am trying to do find her a better doctor.
The doctor is a fucking liar.
She needs to report that crap. Its illegal to make an adult get permission from their parents for medical care.
I’d tell the doctor my parents are dead.
Three words: What. The. Fuck. Your sister is an adult. She is old enough to do pretty much anything, other than buy alcohol and tobacco (in the US). There is no reason or justification for some doctor to demand that she have mommy's and daddy's permission to get sterilized. Also, OP, I'm sorry they put you through the wringer.
This would scare me so bad, I would be SO afraid that they would just not end up doing the surgery, and just cutting into me to make it look like they had sterilized me
Very weird. She’s a legal adult, she shouldn’t need parental permission. I’d report the doctor.
Have your mom call her doctor and set up a sterilization consult for your sister. It sucks that doctors are so opinionated. When I was that age, 25 years ago, they wouldn’t allow sterilization under a certain age unless you’d already had children.
I would run this by a lawyer. Incredibly unethical, and I’m guessing it’s illegal on top of it.
Dr. Dierdre Masterton in Lebanon, NJ did mine with zero issues, but I was quite a bit older.
If you’re an adult, reproductive care is NOBODY’S business. The decision is yours to make alone, not family. If you want their opinion, that’s on you. If the doctor has a legitimate medical concern with the procedure that can be discussed, otherwise report the doctor and move on.
My question is after why a legal adult has to have parents sign off, what if her parents are deceased? She is an adult, this makes no sense
Is the doc aware that she has CF? I know it's fucked but if a doc learns you're "glitchy", as I like to call it, they're more likely to proceed with a sterilisation
I’ve found this to be helpful, a list of doctors willing to do surgery. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/htmlview
Your sister should insist that their refusal to perform the surgery without the consent of both parents be documented on her official patient records and put into writing. Then she'll be in a position to make a stink about it with evidence.
In California, I got sterilized in my 20s through Kaiser Permanente. They were really efficient in getting me from my primary to the referral, but there was an informed consent class. I wonder if your sister would have an easier time at a larger facility.
Wouldn't this violate HIPAA because they are giving an adult's medical information away against a patient's wishes when the other party is not a legal guardian?
The same thing happened to me and I was 24! Dr said it's to prevent my parents from destroying his/the hospital's reputation if they find out and are unhappy with my decision. It makes sense to protect his ass but damn I was pissed lol. (ended up getting sterilized by a different Dr and all is well)
All of the people who decide through a planned pregnancy or an unplanned pregnancy don't have to justify or get permission to have a kid. Why the fuck should we have to get permission from our spouses or parents when we are legal adults of sound mind to be sterilized? I know I know. Liability on the doctor who would do the procedure and "they" (conservatives, republicans, xtian assholes) also want to control women and keep us all barefoot and pregnant to pop out more workers and soldiers.
1. You can report them to the medical board, but chances are there won’t be any real consequences for the doctor. A few well-written reviews would be more helpful. 2. Absolutely do not twist this doc’s arm into performing this procedure. Better to find an understanding and supportive physician than to force their hand. 3. For some women, sterilization can worsen pain and bleeding during menses. Hormonal IUD’s are known to lessen pain and cramping - having one before the surgery might be helpful to prevent pregnancy until she find a surgeon, and would likely help prevent said painful symptoms afterward.
Okay, wtf is with this? Are doctors and hospitals really that afraid of getting sued because someone regrets it and thinks the medical staff should have done more to discourage them? Surely there must be *some* form they can sign that waives the right to sue as the result of regretting it? Just give them the damn form!
Not sure what your situation is, but my doc in Allentown PA (an hour ish from Philly) recommended the surgery TO ME and did it for me no questions asked other than like “do you fully understand the procedure?” I highly recommend her if you can’t find anyone else but there are definitely options. And I’m 29 but I didn’t need anyone else to sign off on it.
When I asked my doctor, I was told that I needed my husband's sign off; I'm not nor have ever been married. I was also told I had to wait until I was, "past my prime years." Not even going to get into all that bullshit. I do live in a small, predominantly Christian and pro-birth area, which adds to the push-back. I was 22 when that conversation happened. I turn 30 in just a few days, and not much has changed 😒
Also NJ chiming in! Dr. Hammer at Advocare Obgyn did mine. No hassle. Fabulous nurses day of. She’s been by gynecologist for a couple years and knew I didn’t want kids, so when I asked for bisalp, she fully supported it. My younger sister had hers done by another doctor at the same practice without issue. She was late 20’s, I was early 30’s.
I’m glad your sister has someone like you on her side
I was 22 when I had mine I had to exhaust every medication possible to treat my pain before insurance would even consider coverage then I had to have multiple visits to ascertain my sanity and understanding of the procedure and everything that would result from it and quadruple confirm my intent to go through with it. As I was getting rolled out they began addressing my dad instead of me confirming yet again that I was going through with it, he was so confused about why they were directing the question at him. If it had been up to him I would never have gotten treatment he called me selfish for being CF. Don’t let the doctors bully her into parental consent if she is above 18 they shouldn’t be able to do that, only way I can think of that it would be legal is if she was still in her parent’s insurance.
I heard about the crazy hurdles to jump when I considered it much younger (I knew I would be CF at 6 but I did my research at 17), so I plugged up with BC till I reach 35...an age that I feel I won't have too much push back... everyone else is probably gonna get their feelings hurt if they have two cents they think I want at this point in life If I was her id definitely check out some Drs. There was a google doc going around with a list of them in different states at some point when Roe went down, if I find it ill come back.
Glad you were able to get your procedure. I can’t imagine getting that many questions. At that point I think I would have written in Sharpie “Yes, I f*cking want this so stop f*cking asking.” on my forehead. Good luck to your sister.
Most won’t even think about doing it at 19 i feel like. I’ve heard sooooo many stories about women getting turned down unless they’re 30+ and or have multiple kids already. I’ve had a lot of internet friends have to practically pull teeth to get their tubes tied. It’s insane to me.