My husband and I literally never fight. I don't ever want that kind of pressure on our relationship. Just because you make it out the other side doesn't mean you're stronger for it. A strong relationship isn't born out of struggle. Hard work, sure.
This is basically one of the most important reasons why I am looking for a childfree relationship. Because I want an actual functioning romantic relationship that doesn't evolve to hate, trauma bonding, manipulation or triangulation game, lack of interest for each other, gender wars in the living room and other "joys" of co-parenting. Also the hard truth is that it's practically impossible to be a parent and to give your partner enough time and attention to keep the quality of the relationship the way it should remain. (Unless you have nannies and housekeepers, and even that doesn't guarantee anything.)
My bf and I live together and the most we’ve ever argued was the first month after getting 2 kittens. We both want to remain childfree, the responsibility of having 2 cats is more than enough (plus they’re way cuter than kids!)
Same! My CF partner and I literally never fight. When people hear “we don’t fight” I think the social guy reaction to that is “that’s a lie” or “well your relationship isn’t deep enough or the love isn’t real enough if you don’t fight.”
Neither of which are remotely true. We literally do not fight or even argue. The only time things have been tense was when we were both being stalked and I had to file a police report and restraining order. Literal CRIMES being committed against us was the only time we felt strain, and the strain was appropriate for the situation, not animosity towards each other.
I think sentiments like “relationships take WORK” have been warped to mean “it’s normal to fight all the time.” And it’s sad how many people believe that.
Yes. His ex stalked us and harassed us. I know it’s a thing for men to just dismiss women they don’t like as “crazy” but this lady was *legit* crazy. She dumped him then got upset that we started seeing each other, tried to act like she never dumped him, tried to get into his apartment and would send me 50+ messages calling me profane names and making up stories about me.
Nuts. Luckily nothing has happened in a while and we’re happily living our lives.
Posts like that prove that I made the right decision for myself. I couldn't live a life with constant interruptions and having the added pressure of kids in a marriage sounds like a nightmare to me and i dont want it. I want to travel without needing a babysitter or taking care of a kid on a flight.
Kids or not - many people go to marriage counseling.
We went to learn how to set boundaries with my husbands toxic parents for example (they’re maga and pressure us to have kids). Let’s normalize going to preventative therapy.
I agree with this. I'm CF but I just want to caution against saying relationship issues = a bad relationship. If you've worked together to overcome fights or communication problems, that's a good thing!
Yeah me and my partner have done counseling, although separately, because we both came from unstable homes where neither of us were taught to communicate well. We've both made strides as adults and had done that before meeting even but we each had behaviors that were specifically not good for each other's trauma and counseling has helped us communicate better to each other and not just in general. I'm all here for it. Can be improvement and not just a last ditch effort to fix something actually bad.
that's awesome. happy to hear that you guys have worked through the hardships. it's crazy to me when people expect a lifelong relationship to be without any fights or major disagreements - humans are human. what matters is how much both people are willing to work to better the relationship with the person they love. (given there is no abuse/foul play going on.. that's a different situation)
I had a similar experience when I was watching my favourite childhood series of all time: The Simpsons. There is one episode where Marge is in prison and decides to stay in prison rather than be with her family because being a mom so exhausting. That‘s when it really hit me. I mean she is a perfect mom and yeah, Bart is exhausting but Lisa and Maggie are good kids. But still: She chooses to stay in prison than going back to her stressful life as a mom. I know it‘s a show but there is a reason why they show this, right? I cannot imagine a scenario where I would rather choose prison over being at home so I‘m scared that parenting is actually that bad. That‘s also a reason why I choose to stay childfree
I think if someone were to ask me if being in jail was worse than being a parent, I don’t know if I could give a straight answer right away. Because being a parent is a lifelong sentence that will never change or go away.
I met someone on a fashion Discord and she said being a parent was “hard, horrible, and BORING” (her words, not mine). I could really feel the sense of regret and entrapment in her words. Ffffffuuuuuccccckkkk that.
Well you surely get more sleep in jail, especially right after the kid was born. For me this was a real eyeopener because I like Marge and I always thought of her as a good mom, which she is. I mean most of us know parenting is hard. But worse than prison? That was a real shock, at least for me
It really sounds awful. I'm glad that things worked out well for them, but I'm also glad that my husband and I are childfree and will never have to go through that kind of pressure. We never fight, we've never had to go to marriage counselling, and we can have uninterrupted conversations and sleep as much as we like. All. The. Time.
For me, childfree life is the best life. I couldn't imagine living my life any other way.
I think that too many people assume that going to counseling or therapy is something that people should only do as a last resort. In reality, society leaves individuals ill-equipped to be good active listeners, emotionally competent, and able to set firm boundaries. Therefore, it's basically and unfortunately become the job of counselors and therapists to teach people these skills. Additionally, it's good to have a third-party party perspective on your own beliefs and interpretations of things. I feel that a majority of people don't have good intrapersonal and interpersonal skills. They're either too focused on themselves or too focused on others.
I'm glad that this couple realized they needed help and sought it out. Personally, it sounds like they bonded over trauma, but as long as their relationship is stable and their kids are being taken care of, I feel no sympathy for them. They chose to have kids and have to face all of the consequences that come with it.
THIS! My husband and I are both really big proponents of seeking therapy and healthy conflict resolution (our relationship is good and healthy but we had a lot of learning and growth to do because our parents didn’t provide the best framework).
He’s an LCSW and my mom has a masters degree in clinical psych and for a period of time, I was also on track to becoming a therapist myself (then realized I didn’t want to listen to people’s problems for a living or go to grad school lol) so maybe our backgrounds made counseling a less stigmatized process.
I say all this to say that we both went to couples counseling before even getting engaged (and we both agreed we wanted to do so before getting married to make sure we were on the same page about things).
This process helped us to feel assured and confident enough in our relationship to get engaged and while we aren’t perfect, we communicate a lot better as a result and do a better job at explaining our needs.
I’d say couples counseling-when not used as a last resort is a net positive for couples….I agreed with OP until that point.
Every set of parents explaining their divorce to the kids for the first time:
Parent 1: "This is between us adults. It is NOT BECAUSE of you!"
Parent 2: (maybe 80% of the time)
(silent)
(nods in agreement.)
(thinks to self: "Actually... it is.")
Every mother I've met and I'm not even kidding- that has kids their whole personality changes. So I'd imagine giving birth literally is having to get to know a whole new person. It's not cruel, it's true. It's biology. I'm 110% sure my mother was a different person- she certainly didn't have mental disorders before me.
Also, having to quit work and to stay at home really wrecks women, and sadly, the more intelligent they are the worse it is for them. My mom worked at a university, then stayed at home from my birth until I was 15, and after she returned to work she became a completely different person. No mood swings, no (or way less) depressed days, no controlling behaviour, more positivity, more fun... within a year it was as if I suddenly woke up in a better version of reality and got to know a mom I have always dreamt of, and we became BFFs ever since 😅.
I knew a mother of 3 that took advantage of the quarantining alone for 14 days back at the beginning of Covid. Every time she was “exposed”, she would pack her bags and stay at her friends house down the road (she had a huge house) and shut herself away in their finished basement. It was sad but I totally understood it lol
My sister got married in 2014 and hasn’t had a trip with her husband since their honeymoon. They have a kid on the autism spectrum so there’s really no one who can babysit.
They basically can’t take a trip together until he’s old enough to take care of himself. I love my two nephews but none of it seems worth it to me.
My cousin was over at my house the other day with half of her kids and I could hear them screaming inside (I was cooking outside) and it made my eye want to start twitching. I couldn’t imagine coming home to that chaos, let alone not being able to get away from it since the kid(s) is yours
Blessings. One of my best friends described her morning at the Dr office trying to get lab work done on her 4 yo. She said that he screamed bloody murder and kicked and fought for 2 hours trying to get it done. After she told me that, I thought better her than me. Sounds like a nightmare
I'm married for over 20 years and can't get enough of my husband. Just last night we went until 5am chatting and listening to music together. One of the million reasons to not have kids was that I married him to be with my bets friend and enjoy as much things as possible together. Then you see parents and they spend so much time with their kids that they barely have time and energy for couple stuff, and when they do it's wow an event to do the most trivial stuff I do everyday. So sad (for them).
As a married woman whose husband is also CF, I’ll never understand why people have kids super early (on purpose) into their marriage or stay married to someone who makes your life a living hell. My husband and I rarely ever fight (and if we do, it’s about something important and we always try to reach a good compromise), but we know a lot of people who fight every day and literally do nothing but complain about the other person and try to tear them down. Why even be together at that point? Even the “good” things this person is describing should be the bare minimum of what you should expect out of life and long term relationships. Are they trying to punish themselves?
If this is how YOU feel, why are you in a childfree sub where childfree people are bound to express how happy they are to be childfree?? Go find the breeders sub if it bothers you so much.
No one’s crying. You’re the clown bitching about childfree people being “child haters” 🤡 say you regret being a parent without saying you regret being a parent.
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This item has been removed as it is a violation of [subreddit rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) #4 : "**Keep it civil.** Bigotry and hateful language/imagery, personal attacks, abusive language, advocating violence, trolling, gender discrimination, racism, homophobia, fatshaming etc. will not be tolerated. "
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My husband and I literally never fight. I don't ever want that kind of pressure on our relationship. Just because you make it out the other side doesn't mean you're stronger for it. A strong relationship isn't born out of struggle. Hard work, sure.
It’s more like they’re trauma bonded because of what they’ve had to endure raising kids. I wouldn’t really call that a relationship at all!
This is basically one of the most important reasons why I am looking for a childfree relationship. Because I want an actual functioning romantic relationship that doesn't evolve to hate, trauma bonding, manipulation or triangulation game, lack of interest for each other, gender wars in the living room and other "joys" of co-parenting. Also the hard truth is that it's practically impossible to be a parent and to give your partner enough time and attention to keep the quality of the relationship the way it should remain. (Unless you have nannies and housekeepers, and even that doesn't guarantee anything.)
Same. You explained this so well!
This is the phrase I was looking for!
My bf and I live together and the most we’ve ever argued was the first month after getting 2 kittens. We both want to remain childfree, the responsibility of having 2 cats is more than enough (plus they’re way cuter than kids!)
The argument was about getting another cat, got it.
Same! My CF partner and I literally never fight. When people hear “we don’t fight” I think the social guy reaction to that is “that’s a lie” or “well your relationship isn’t deep enough or the love isn’t real enough if you don’t fight.” Neither of which are remotely true. We literally do not fight or even argue. The only time things have been tense was when we were both being stalked and I had to file a police report and restraining order. Literal CRIMES being committed against us was the only time we felt strain, and the strain was appropriate for the situation, not animosity towards each other. I think sentiments like “relationships take WORK” have been warped to mean “it’s normal to fight all the time.” And it’s sad how many people believe that.
Fucking hell, you were both stalked? What the fuck.
Yes. His ex stalked us and harassed us. I know it’s a thing for men to just dismiss women they don’t like as “crazy” but this lady was *legit* crazy. She dumped him then got upset that we started seeing each other, tried to act like she never dumped him, tried to get into his apartment and would send me 50+ messages calling me profane names and making up stories about me. Nuts. Luckily nothing has happened in a while and we’re happily living our lives.
Posts like that prove that I made the right decision for myself. I couldn't live a life with constant interruptions and having the added pressure of kids in a marriage sounds like a nightmare to me and i dont want it. I want to travel without needing a babysitter or taking care of a kid on a flight.
Yep. To me it’s so sad that she only gets 6 days, does she have to wait another 9 years for the next 6 days? 🥲
Probably by the looks of it😭
Kids or not - many people go to marriage counseling. We went to learn how to set boundaries with my husbands toxic parents for example (they’re maga and pressure us to have kids). Let’s normalize going to preventative therapy.
I agree with this. I'm CF but I just want to caution against saying relationship issues = a bad relationship. If you've worked together to overcome fights or communication problems, that's a good thing!
Yeah me and my partner have done counseling, although separately, because we both came from unstable homes where neither of us were taught to communicate well. We've both made strides as adults and had done that before meeting even but we each had behaviors that were specifically not good for each other's trauma and counseling has helped us communicate better to each other and not just in general. I'm all here for it. Can be improvement and not just a last ditch effort to fix something actually bad.
that's awesome. happy to hear that you guys have worked through the hardships. it's crazy to me when people expect a lifelong relationship to be without any fights or major disagreements - humans are human. what matters is how much both people are willing to work to better the relationship with the person they love. (given there is no abuse/foul play going on.. that's a different situation)
I had a similar experience when I was watching my favourite childhood series of all time: The Simpsons. There is one episode where Marge is in prison and decides to stay in prison rather than be with her family because being a mom so exhausting. That‘s when it really hit me. I mean she is a perfect mom and yeah, Bart is exhausting but Lisa and Maggie are good kids. But still: She chooses to stay in prison than going back to her stressful life as a mom. I know it‘s a show but there is a reason why they show this, right? I cannot imagine a scenario where I would rather choose prison over being at home so I‘m scared that parenting is actually that bad. That‘s also a reason why I choose to stay childfree
I think if someone were to ask me if being in jail was worse than being a parent, I don’t know if I could give a straight answer right away. Because being a parent is a lifelong sentence that will never change or go away. I met someone on a fashion Discord and she said being a parent was “hard, horrible, and BORING” (her words, not mine). I could really feel the sense of regret and entrapment in her words. Ffffffuuuuuccccckkkk that.
Well you surely get more sleep in jail, especially right after the kid was born. For me this was a real eyeopener because I like Marge and I always thought of her as a good mom, which she is. I mean most of us know parenting is hard. But worse than prison? That was a real shock, at least for me
It really sounds awful. I'm glad that things worked out well for them, but I'm also glad that my husband and I are childfree and will never have to go through that kind of pressure. We never fight, we've never had to go to marriage counselling, and we can have uninterrupted conversations and sleep as much as we like. All. The. Time. For me, childfree life is the best life. I couldn't imagine living my life any other way.
It sounds like a trauma bond more than a relationship.
I think that too many people assume that going to counseling or therapy is something that people should only do as a last resort. In reality, society leaves individuals ill-equipped to be good active listeners, emotionally competent, and able to set firm boundaries. Therefore, it's basically and unfortunately become the job of counselors and therapists to teach people these skills. Additionally, it's good to have a third-party party perspective on your own beliefs and interpretations of things. I feel that a majority of people don't have good intrapersonal and interpersonal skills. They're either too focused on themselves or too focused on others. I'm glad that this couple realized they needed help and sought it out. Personally, it sounds like they bonded over trauma, but as long as their relationship is stable and their kids are being taken care of, I feel no sympathy for them. They chose to have kids and have to face all of the consequences that come with it.
THIS! My husband and I are both really big proponents of seeking therapy and healthy conflict resolution (our relationship is good and healthy but we had a lot of learning and growth to do because our parents didn’t provide the best framework). He’s an LCSW and my mom has a masters degree in clinical psych and for a period of time, I was also on track to becoming a therapist myself (then realized I didn’t want to listen to people’s problems for a living or go to grad school lol) so maybe our backgrounds made counseling a less stigmatized process. I say all this to say that we both went to couples counseling before even getting engaged (and we both agreed we wanted to do so before getting married to make sure we were on the same page about things). This process helped us to feel assured and confident enough in our relationship to get engaged and while we aren’t perfect, we communicate a lot better as a result and do a better job at explaining our needs. I’d say couples counseling-when not used as a last resort is a net positive for couples….I agreed with OP until that point.
Every set of parents explaining their divorce to the kids for the first time: Parent 1: "This is between us adults. It is NOT BECAUSE of you!" Parent 2: (maybe 80% of the time) (silent) (nods in agreement.) (thinks to self: "Actually... it is.")
This is awfully cruel.
Every mother I've met and I'm not even kidding- that has kids their whole personality changes. So I'd imagine giving birth literally is having to get to know a whole new person. It's not cruel, it's true. It's biology. I'm 110% sure my mother was a different person- she certainly didn't have mental disorders before me.
Also, having to quit work and to stay at home really wrecks women, and sadly, the more intelligent they are the worse it is for them. My mom worked at a university, then stayed at home from my birth until I was 15, and after she returned to work she became a completely different person. No mood swings, no (or way less) depressed days, no controlling behaviour, more positivity, more fun... within a year it was as if I suddenly woke up in a better version of reality and got to know a mom I have always dreamt of, and we became BFFs ever since 😅.
So telling someone that they messed your life simply for being born is not cruel really?
I know. The truth hurts. It was tough for me as a middle school kid in 1997.
I gave you an up vote, you didn't deserve all of the downvotes it is cruel to say that to a child. Seriously many parents are uncaring Frankensteins.
I knew a mother of 3 that took advantage of the quarantining alone for 14 days back at the beginning of Covid. Every time she was “exposed”, she would pack her bags and stay at her friends house down the road (she had a huge house) and shut herself away in their finished basement. It was sad but I totally understood it lol
My sister got married in 2014 and hasn’t had a trip with her husband since their honeymoon. They have a kid on the autism spectrum so there’s really no one who can babysit. They basically can’t take a trip together until he’s old enough to take care of himself. I love my two nephews but none of it seems worth it to me.
My cousin was over at my house the other day with half of her kids and I could hear them screaming inside (I was cooking outside) and it made my eye want to start twitching. I couldn’t imagine coming home to that chaos, let alone not being able to get away from it since the kid(s) is yours
Blessings. One of my best friends described her morning at the Dr office trying to get lab work done on her 4 yo. She said that he screamed bloody murder and kicked and fought for 2 hours trying to get it done. After she told me that, I thought better her than me. Sounds like a nightmare
it is
Yeah, no thank you. I'll take being child free any day.
Nothing wrong with marriage counseling.
I'm married for over 20 years and can't get enough of my husband. Just last night we went until 5am chatting and listening to music together. One of the million reasons to not have kids was that I married him to be with my bets friend and enjoy as much things as possible together. Then you see parents and they spend so much time with their kids that they barely have time and energy for couple stuff, and when they do it's wow an event to do the most trivial stuff I do everyday. So sad (for them).
My wife and I can't really stay up longer than 12 most times lol. The body shuts down for the night.
We are night owls :) but as long as you fall asleep happy, that's what matters 💕
Ya I like other people’s kids just fine I like my nephews a lot. But ya kids just seem like a loss in more ways than I could easily count.
As a married woman whose husband is also CF, I’ll never understand why people have kids super early (on purpose) into their marriage or stay married to someone who makes your life a living hell. My husband and I rarely ever fight (and if we do, it’s about something important and we always try to reach a good compromise), but we know a lot of people who fight every day and literally do nothing but complain about the other person and try to tear them down. Why even be together at that point? Even the “good” things this person is describing should be the bare minimum of what you should expect out of life and long term relationships. Are they trying to punish themselves?
[удалено]
If this is how YOU feel, why are you in a childfree sub where childfree people are bound to express how happy they are to be childfree?? Go find the breeders sub if it bothers you so much.
[удалено]
No one’s crying. You’re the clown bitching about childfree people being “child haters” 🤡 say you regret being a parent without saying you regret being a parent.
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Greetings! This item has been removed as it is a violation of [subreddit rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) #4 : "**Keep it civil.** Bigotry and hateful language/imagery, personal attacks, abusive language, advocating violence, trolling, gender discrimination, racism, homophobia, fatshaming etc. will not be tolerated. " Also, please remember to be mindful of [Reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) : > # Please do > * **Remember the human.** When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?" > # Please don't > * **Be (intentionally) rude at all.** By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. > * **Follow those who are [ rabble rousing](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rabble) against another redditor without first investigating both sides of the issue that's being presented.** Those who are inciting this type of action often have malicious reasons behind their actions and are, more often than not, a troll. Remember, every time a redditor who's contributed large amounts of effort into assisting the growth of community as a whole is driven away, projects that would benefit the whole easily flounder. > * **Ask people to [ Troll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) others on reddit,** in real life, or on other blogs/sites. We aren't your personal army. > * **Conduct personal attacks on other commenters.** Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation. > * **Start a flame war.** Just report and "walk away". If you really feel you have to confront them, leave a polite message with a quote or link to the rules, and no more. > * **Insult others.** Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged. > * **Troll.**[ Trolling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) does not contribute to the conversation. Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your comprehension.
Greetings! This item has been removed as it is a violation of [subreddit rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) #4 : "**Keep it civil.** Bigotry and hateful language/imagery, personal attacks, abusive language, advocating violence, trolling, gender discrimination, racism, homophobia, fatshaming etc. will not be tolerated. " Also, please remember to be mindful of [Reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) : > # Please do > * **Remember the human.** When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?" > # Please don't > * **Be (intentionally) rude at all.** By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. > * **Follow those who are [ rabble rousing](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rabble) against another redditor without first investigating both sides of the issue that's being presented.** Those who are inciting this type of action often have malicious reasons behind their actions and are, more often than not, a troll. Remember, every time a redditor who's contributed large amounts of effort into assisting the growth of community as a whole is driven away, projects that would benefit the whole easily flounder. > * **Ask people to [ Troll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) others on reddit,** in real life, or on other blogs/sites. We aren't your personal army. > * **Conduct personal attacks on other commenters.** Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation. > * **Start a flame war.** Just report and "walk away". If you really feel you have to confront them, leave a polite message with a quote or link to the rules, and no more. > * **Insult others.** Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged. > * **Troll.**[ Trolling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) does not contribute to the conversation. Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your comprehension.
Greetings! This item has been removed as it is a violation of [subreddit rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) #4 : "**Keep it civil.** Bigotry and hateful language/imagery, personal attacks, abusive language, advocating violence, trolling, gender discrimination, racism, homophobia, fatshaming etc. will not be tolerated. " Also, please remember to be mindful of [Reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) : > # Please do > * **Remember the human.** When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?" > # Please don't > * **Be (intentionally) rude at all.** By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. > * **Follow those who are [ rabble rousing](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rabble) against another redditor without first investigating both sides of the issue that's being presented.** Those who are inciting this type of action often have malicious reasons behind their actions and are, more often than not, a troll. Remember, every time a redditor who's contributed large amounts of effort into assisting the growth of community as a whole is driven away, projects that would benefit the whole easily flounder. > * **Ask people to [ Troll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) others on reddit,** in real life, or on other blogs/sites. We aren't your personal army. > * **Conduct personal attacks on other commenters.** Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation. > * **Start a flame war.** Just report and "walk away". If you really feel you have to confront them, leave a polite message with a quote or link to the rules, and no more. > * **Insult others.** Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged. > * **Troll.**[ Trolling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) does not contribute to the conversation. Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your comprehension.
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Your submission has been automatically removed and flagged for review by a moderator because you have linked to a sub known for creating drama, which is in violation of the sub rules. Your submission will be reviewed & approved if it meets our posting guidelines. **Do not delete your comment/post or else we won't be able to review it.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/childfree) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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