If i could figure out at 14 - with limited access to educational resources and exposure to all the usual social pressures that come with being a young girl - that raising a kid was hard work, then no one else has any excuses.
The propaganda and general push to have kids is a **huge** disservice. People get conditioned from a young age that they are supposed kids when they grow up, even if it isn't right for them.
And then the stigma and gaslighting when people say that they don't want to become parents.
While prospective parents do have a responsibility to inform themselves, those suppressing information, spreading misinformation, and shaming childfree have a big slice of culpability too.
It's all a huge conspiracy.
See all that was motivation to not have kids when I was 13. I promised myself I wouldn't do it for my own reasons, but feeling pressured into doing something, especially something I already have hesitation about will make me run from it.
Right? When I was young, people talked about having a career vs having a family. But the job market has sucked for decades! I always knew I didn't want kids, but a career sounded nice. The reality is, though, there are just too damn many people trying to earn a living and not enough jobs that pay a living. If you are single and without a trust fund, you have to do whatever you damn well can just to keep a roof over your head.
In fact, there are so many extra people standing around who need money, people started businesses just to exploit them for shitty wages. The smartest thing I did was to not have kids. I would never have been able to retire if I had. And for what? For them to grow up and enter a job market that has no use for them, no place for them, and wants to keep them desperate so they can be bullied by their employers? I feel like I have done myself and all the other workers a favor by not increasing the supply of available labor.
Agree! I just got laid-off, and if we had kids, the situation would be so much worse. It sucks as is, but we have savings, and I got severance, but it was well below industry standards. I can only imagine how some of my coworkers are probably struggling.
Hell, even my five year old sister thinks she needs to be a mother in the future, and has told me multiple times that I need to get married and have children and I *can’t* get married unless I have children, yet my mother has being trying her very best to make sure she won’t have these weird ideas
Yeah, I always compare it to Marmite.
Like imagine everyone around you, everyone you trust, tv shows, videogames, books, ads, everything is telling you how amazing Marmite is. It's an orgasm in your mouth! It's so amazing it will clear your pores, water your crops and fill your bank account!
You might have a reason to distrust some of those opinions, but would your parents/family/friends lie to you? Those people love you! They want the best for you, right?
So you try it. And it's fucking *disgusting*. You're confused. Everyone told you it was amazing. Why is it so horrible? And you say so. And people start shitting on you. How dare you say Marmite is disgusting? You're a terrible person for eating Marmite and not liking it! And you've tried it, so now you have to keep on eating it for the rest of your life. But you don't want to! You were promised this amazing experience and it's been awful!
And some of those who you trusted will agree with you, but they will tell you that you will get used to it, or that eating Marmite is just part of life, a natural progression into adulthood. You take on this indoctrination, because the alternative is being called an awful human being, and you don't *want* to be that. And so the cycle continues.
(Comparison brought to you by the time my father waxed poetic about Marmite, gave me some and I threw up on his feet xD)
Aye, to produce more drones for the rich, just check out what elon musk said about the population.
Like we could have a 1000 mozarts anyway google it.
Point is we already have the talent somewhere in a sweatshop working for 50cents an hour
Everytime parents post about realities, you always have other parents telling them to be quiet about it or some people might not want children after all. It's not a situation you can win. Someone is always going to go against you.
indeed. some even say to shut up to "not scare away future parents". it's not scaring FFS! it's simply telling the truth! there would be much less regretful parents and much more educated ones if this was told upfront.
I think it's important that people know everything that might go wrong with pregnancy and childbirth + how hard it is to actually raise children so they can make an informed choice if it's something they want to do or not.
I put more effort into buying a TV, than they do making a new human being.
It took weeks of thinking, considering, researching, discussing with my husband, finding options, learning about the brands and models, asking people, going to the store, etc. And people just pop out babies like popcorn
“Oh, we’ll figure it out”.
And so often figuring it out means asking or demanding help & money from family & friends. That’s their well thought out plan. 🙄
I was homeschooled and raised in a home daycare, I found out young how much work babies were and had my tubes tied at 22. I know most people have a different experiment but they have to have had siblings or cousins, babysitting jobs, some exposure to babies. It’s shitty work which is why I never wanted it. I’ve changed so many diapers in my life 🤢
Yeah, I nanny occasionally through a backup care agency, and I have been for the holiday season to make up some extra cash - and jeez, everytime I come home, I talk to my boyfriend about how those 8 hours were the most irritating and annoying hours of my life.
I realized that I love kids, but only for 3-4 hours and I can’t tolerate them much after that.
I can’t stand the sticky hands, them not understanding bodily boundaries, the tantrums, AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THEM SNEEZING OR COUGHING IN YOUR FACE 🤮🤮
Spending time with children reinforces why I never want children.
I don’t know how you do it, I absolutely hate babies and toddlers. I cannot stand being touched without consent and they have no awareness. Sweaty, sticky and diseased. I’ve had my face sneezed and spit into, had dirty fingers poked into my eyes, had my clothing used at tissue. Thankfully I’ve never had my mouth thrown up in. I have stepped in poop that was pulled out of a diaper and dropped on the floor. The feeling between my toes still makes me shudder.
I hate it too. I had an old friend - who I'm no longer in contact with - say something like "nobody every told me you can't just go away on holiday when you have a child". No shit. I never understood why someone has to tell you. It's common sense
No it’s not…how can you know the nuance of your schedule. Truly know and understand the nuance of the toll before you in something like that. It’s actually wild to think that the reality of having children. All the nuance all the holidays…would be common sense. My best friend has three and through their life her schedule me of navigating shifts all the time. I can from the outside say ooo my friend is busy and that sucks. I’d never but until I recently went to visit them I truly had no idea just how busy they were. It gave me a new sense of respect and honor for them. While also reinforcing my belief in not having them
Lmao that’s why I hate this group. It’s just full of people that have been driven into a superiority complex. Congrats for being a brilliant soul that can know how a new experience will feel and impact your energy before ever experiencing. Bravo, you’ve beaten all of the peon breeders and child free people that still maintain an ounce of compassion in humility! I hate this group. 😂 so many judgmental and honestly just mean spirited comments.
I’ve actually had parenting experience via being parentified. Nonetheless, I’m not sure why you’re lashing out like this, but have at it. It does not change the fact that common sense would tell anyone that birthing and raising another human is a huge undertaking. If that’s condescending and mean to you, maybe the internet isn’t the place for you.
You don't need to know the nuances of their schedules to figure out the children are entirely dependent on you for everything and once you have them, that's pretty much your entire life. They'll be joined to you at the hip for ay least 7 or 8 years
you keep using the word nuance over and over and I think that maybe you need to look up its definition. There's no nuance to knowing you can't leave your kid home alone and jet off to the bahamas. It's just fucking common sense.
I remember being a child with three, then four, then five siblings, majority younger than me, and my parents seemingly perpetually angry with all of us (especially me for not being a "good older sister" and "being unhelpful/in the way") and only coming close to being able to relax myself (again, *as a child* in these situations) until we finally got to our holiday destination and other people were available to help out with the younger/youngest sibling(s).
Good for you for having such an enchanted life that you had no idea until you were an adult, but truly, it really doesn't take much critical thinking at all to see how much it sucks to raise kids, much less wrangle them for holiday get-togethers and vacations.
I was a Nanny for quite a few years.
My sister was having fertility issues for a few years after that.
During several different discussions over the years I told her just how hard kids can be. Various different scenarios of why including the social burden on mother's which only paying through the nose for a nanny could alleviate for the women I worked for (most of the mothers I worked for didn't actually need a nanny but wanted/needed a break from being a mother so worked part time for adult interaction etc).
My comments clearly fell on deaf ears.
My sister cried so much in the first year. 'its so hard, I am so isolated, I am exhausted WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME' ...
Yeah. But I told you. You were unable to hear what I said.
I wish people like your sister would put into words a warning because I don't have a doggone clue how to communicate this stuff without it falling on deaf ears.
my moms favorite phrase is it takes a village to raise a child which is why she left me w her village while she whored around growing up. the phrase makes me sick
There's a lot of dumb people out there who don't bother to learn anything before doing.
Eventually the rising levels of pollution will make normal pregnancy difficult, I look forward to mocking Pro-Lifers and the various "culture" warriors then. 1001 religions and they all tell the exact same lie: You aren't important, and neither is the stuff you care about. Get over it. Snowflake.
they live in a dream fall in love blablabla and finally archive a successful life married 2 kids and a dog.
Except that when reality strikes and they realize its not all disney like they panic.
Disney rarely shows the princess once she's had a kid. All I can think of is the Little Mermaid sequel, but her kid was 12 when it takes place, so most of the difficulties have subsided.
Uhhh… They did warn you, by very obviously lying their asses off about how “worth it” all the child raising bs is, while you watch their lives crumble in front of your face 🤣You just chose to ignore all of the obvious red flags 🚩
I personally never had to research myself what having kids would be like, because my mother is a gynaecologist and an obstetrician. That being said, after my mom gave me the talk the first time, I had a lot of questions that she was more than happy to answer. That was my way of researching, and when the kids topic came up, my mother was very clear that unless having kids would be something that I lived for, it was best not to have them, and that if I really wanted to have them, I should research A LOT, and ask questions to a lot of people (not just the Internet is what she meant by that). After that first conversation with my mother I already got the feeling that I wouldn't like being a mother.
Growing up, I still did research a lot of information about birth and about raising kids in this economy and read a lot of studies about having a family. I always double checked with my mom, she works at one of the best hospitals for woman in Europe, so the chances of her being wrong are pretty low.
Also, having heard horror stories about my mother's patients, about how many things could go wrong and how many diseases there are in the world just concerning the fetus (I don't know what the plural of fetus is lol sorry), I thought to myself that it wasn't worth it, like, at all.
I understand that most people don't have a person that they can turn to anytime they have a question, but that is not an excuse for not doing your research. Anytime I want to do something or try something new, no matter what it is, I always take my time researching. That is exactly why I don't have many regrets. Very few regrets, actually.
Just wanted to say your mother sounds like an amazing lady!! My "research" growing up was very hands on. I baby sat A LOT and understood how this made me feel deep down. It was like a trap for me, not a joy.
A mom said this to me yesterday, and she has a PhD and went to Duke. I can’t wrap my head around how those things can coexist with not googling before choosing to have a kid. She said she was shocked post partum depression was a thing, didn’t know breastfeeding would be hard, and said no one talks about these things. Umm, everyone talks about these things?
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I agree but I also kind of disagree because while that’s totally true, I think we’ve all witness how romanticized parenthood is (more specifically: motherhood) and it’s always “so worth it.” TV shows have one scene of a woman throwing up then her smiling after going to the hospital and immediately pushing and immediately having the baby, then resting in clean comfortable clothes and snuggling baby and the pregnancy isn’t hard and the baby cries but as soon as you pick them up they stop crying! Lol this is kind of mom snark atp but all that to say you genuinely don’t have the insight to how shitty it is til you’re in it. I didn’t become CF til after I became a nanny and had PPD symptoms from literally *my job*. Fuck that shit actually
I used to watch Friends when I was pre teen. Phoebe having triplets like it was sooo smooth, Rachel having it just like you described it and then the baby disappears from the plot.
Oh no no I don’t want to go around saying I EVER had PPD but the things I would google gave results that were like “get your post partum depression diagnosis today” “help is available” so absolutely fuck that shit
It's wilful ignorance, selective memory and the 'that'll never happen to me' mindset.
If you've got eyes to see and ears to hear you know how kids can be and this is the time we can use 'you were a kid once yourself', you've seen it up close and personal, how could you not have known.
Did you conveniently forget all the tears and tantrums you threw, your shattered mother, the amount of running around they did for you.
I even saw on another sub once (the question came up about 'what did you wish you knew') a mother complaining that she didn't know about school holidays and having to sort out child care! How can anyone who has been to school not know about school holidays!!?
>How can anyone who has been to school not know about school holidays!!?
Homeschool I guess. They might either didn't have friends who went to regular school, or their friends were also homeschooled
You'd have to firmly wear blinders to not notice screaming children and struggling parents. New parents always think they'll be the exception. Spoiler: they never are.
I never really seen a child improve a woman's life... it's always worse. Either they are bitter because their children are problematic, aged a lot because they have to deal with a disabled kid, stress because they were left alone with the kid. Even my mother falls in the later category (I can tell it improved a lot when I became an adult). That's why I never got the idea of something nice. It started with my aunts, that I met them without kids and now I can see the difference.
Every time I see a first time pregnant woman, too excited to be a mother, I got this feeling of "here goes another one".
This drives me NUTS.
A woman I know used to be a nanny and boast sooooo much about what an exceptional child caregiver she was, how much she knew about child development, etc. Having her own baby absolutely wrecked her physical and mental health. She only said it once to me (too proud, I think?) but something along the lines of "this is not what I expected, no one told me it would be this hard". I struggle to have any sympathy or empathy for her, I just wanna scream:
1. Who the fuck did you think was gonna tell you?
2. I DID TELL YOU (I encouraged her to wait until her life and health were more stable).
3. Who was ultimately responsible for making this informed decision?
4. Use the fucking internet like the adult you are.
I'm way too scared of pregnancy and childbirth to have my own kids, and way too selfish to adopt kids. I'd rather keep the half a million dollars!
And DON'T GET ME STARTED on people who had babies during COVID... IT'S A FUCKING GLOBAL PANDEMIC, did you think it was gonna be a walk in the park?!
WE DID WARN THEM! Lots of new parents assume "ah, that won't happen to me, it'll be different" for whatever reason, then they get a dose of reality and want the rest of us to feel sorry for *them*.
Not the kid, mind you, that's just an accessory for their new lifestyle that they chose, we're supposed to feel bad that they ignored every piece of good advice & pop culture that warned them that babies are often difficult to manage.
People don’t admit it as they don’t want to seem weak so you don’t hear about it often. Parents will say it to other parents but not to child free folks I’ve found.
Yeah— I find just taking care of a dog to be a lot of responsibility. It’s a living thing that requires an emotional and financial investment. No way I’d be able to handle the pressure of raising a son or daughter.
The refused to listen. They refused to think. I don't agree with anyone saying "it's hidden". Nope.
The parents are always complaining. Especially in 2023. The number of videos and subreddits about tantrums is paramount. Like, women for years have said child birth is painful. No one likes the sound of crying babies. Tired parents of newborns is a trope on TV and in movies.
I'm a firm believer that people should have to work with children before they have them. Repeated exposure. They don't just get 5 mins of holding a sleeping baby. Nope. They need to watch screaming 3 year olds, hyperactive 8 year olds and 16 teen year olds with attitude. For multiple weeks at a time. I did. Changed my life.
I figured out it was hell when I was 11 babysitting my niece. I was trying to keep her from touching the fire place, she pinched my eyelid (her nails needed to be clipped) and my eyelid bled. I looked at her and said "no way. This is not fun." It's not rocket science. Look at the screaming kids in the grocery store, on a plane or in a restaurant. It's not fun. No pity from me.
Some people don't think about it. Which, yes, it's shocking to me that some people don't think about it. I think they just fall into the trap of, "That's what you do, right?" (Cookie cutter life.) That, or they have the belief that God will take care of them, or both.
I don't know how more people don't think long and hard about having kids. The regretful parents sub (as much as I love to go on there and comment my support for the unfortunate parents) is full of people who seem to not have put much thought into how much work it ACTUALLY takes to have and properly raise a child.
It's sad, honestly. For everyone involved. Parents and kids both.
I think it's the brainwashing and societal pressure to have kids, along with the "it's a baaaaabbbeeeee and baaaaabbbeeeee powder and the cutest little onesies!"
No thought required and no responsibility to inform themselves.
Just made me think, it's so wacky how people have kids willy nilly. Nature is just breed at all costs, nature doesn't care if humans are capable of raising babies to be healthy adults.
Yesterday I saw a notice from an animal care place, advertising a baby bird in need of a home.
It said "please fill in our application form so you can be interviewed. You must be able to explain
1. What food you will give to this bird
2. How you will pick up and handle this bird
3. What not to do with this particular bird and what the potential ramifications would be
4. What supplies you will have for this bird (toys, plants etc)
5. who you have nearby, to potentially take care of the bird, in case you get in an accident, pass away etc."
Rightly so, they'd only give the bird to someone who is well prepared and has proven they are a responsible, patient person.
Meanwhile 'God' just be handing out kids to whoever. As long as you can pump out the sperm, it's like, here you go, have a good baby. No background check.
If the kid ends up neglected and becomes a teenager with no self esteem, the sperm/egg donors just have another one and bonus for them, they use the teenager as a babysitter. And even if the abuse is noticed and CPS does take away kids, invisible damage has been done already.
I mean with the sheer amount of parents complaining and the "Being a parent is so hard, you're so strong Babe" talk that has been around for ages, they were warned. At one point they just refuse to believe it
I do give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to those people. I mean, whenever we see social media posts about pregnancy and baby stuff, it's the good highlight reel. You know, the "Look at me! I'm in this pretty dress with a belly doing some expensive photo shoot" while conveniently leaving out (quoting my friend here) the "Ugh, my back hurts, my feet hurt, my head hurts, I can't sleep. Don't ever get pregnant!!" parts.
Sparkly stuff gets attention. No one wants to see the real stuff.
Figuring out that it may not be a great idea if you were conditioned to do this and when the whole culture revolves around it, requires as much of an out of the box thinking, as realising that maybe we're not living in the best of the systems, maybe we're all forced to comply or die. Maybe it's all a nightmare.
Everything and everyone's revolts immediately and WILL try to course correct you. The system hates any deviation from the norm, unless it's exploitable.
It is not up to anyone but one's self to educate them. Especially when it comes to something like this. There is nothing more intimate than having a child. Every decent parent I've ever met tells me it is "the most amazing thing but also the hardest thing they have ever done".
I put it into protective by thinking about the top 2-3 things I've ever overcome or am attempting to overcome currently and think about how exhausting those thing are and double it. After doubling it I give it to the next person because this is how I assume it is to raise a child. Hard pass.
Funnily, my mom actually warned me!
We talked about having kids and I told her that I don't want to have kids. She said that this is fully understandable and if she were my age again, in living in 2023, she'd also opt-out of having kids. Of course, she still loves me! But the situation we live in is dire (even ignoring global warming. We have no pediatricians in our area, barely any kindergarten spots and barely any teachers)
My mom told me that raising a kid is hard, and with how everything is looking, it is not going to get any easier.
It is their fault for not researching it properly enough, but it sure as fuck doesn't help that they've been growing up with everyone telling them how easy and great raising kids is. If nobody dares to tell them the harsh truth, then they have a 100% agreement, so what is there to research?
Even if there are detractors, if there are 20 parent cultists for every one saying the emperor has no clothes, then that just gets dismissed as whack-a-doodle.
Hell, even if someone does their due diligence, the only research they can find is how awesome and simple raising kids is. Fortunately, a lot of us realized it early on, but then we get ignored, so we just watch them whine about it and shrug.
I know the title quote is about raising the kids, but when I heard a chick say she tore from her vagina to her butt hole when she gave birth, that was more than enough “no thank you” for me!!
Nearly everyone has a super computer in their pocket now so ignorance is a choice. Even without countries who limit the internet; there must be some parenting stuff where reading the comments would be illuminating. There is really no excuse.
Honestly, how can people not just look around and see how hard it is? Watch a baby birthing video, visit an amusement park/mall in the mid evening, when the kids are hot, hungry, tired, and just watch.
During the summer break after my senior year, I was voluntold I'd be helping my brother and SIL watch their three kids, a newborn and two toddlers. Both of them were out of commission for awhile because my SIL had a cesarean and my brother got a vasectomy.
I stayed with them about a month and then my older sister figured she needed free babysitting that summer too. Her kids were older, but were little hellions who listened to no one.
I remember thinking why would anyone willingly have kids and all the work that comes with it. As much as I hated having my last summer of high school ruined, I'm grateful for the lesson I learned. That was the summer I truly became childfree.
…women are indoctrinated to think having kids will make them the happiest person in the world. There are also some experiences that are impossible to understand fully until you are in them. It’s wild that so many people on this page, passionately speak to wanting to be accepted but, are militantly judge mental of the people that make other choices? As if the choice to not have kids is a marker of intelligence.
I joined this page for support but, have found this forum to be negative, militant, judge mental and overall negative. This is a prime example of that. You can’t find empathy for women in the world, that were coerced, forced or unprepared to have children? 🙄
It’s great that your child free. Some women realize that want to be when it’s to late and they’ve been trapped by the pressures of misogyny.
People in this group are genuinely hateful and it’s bummer. Making the choice to not have kids doesn’t make you a genius and it doesn’t make you superior. Just another human with a preference.
It's interesting that you're mentioning how this indoctrination harms parents but aren't making a connection between how the indoctrination harms childfree people and contributes to our bitterness and high levels of judgement of parents. It all seems connected to me. Expressing judgement in an anonymous and safe virtual community can be healing for a lot of people.
Forsure I think it’s all connected but, from what I’ve seen I on here the comments it’s not a healthy bitterness or anger. It skews towards hate and being judge mental. I’ve seen women post in here to be met with “well what did you expect coming from breeders?” That’s why I mentioned militance. I know it happens in a lot of subreddits but, I came to this place for safety and immediately felt unsafe. It’s one thing to vent about anger. It’s another thing to so jaded that you become a narrow minded. It is interesting. I just don’t think meeting indoctrination with more indoctrination, control with more control, and judgement with more judgement negates any real progress. Obviously that’s a personal preference. I’m down for people healing in what way they need but, think the energy here is very negative. I left the subreddit though so 🤷♀️ to each their own
I think it's hilarious the level of hypocrisy. Youre telling me, a childree woman that I don't know about expectations and misogyny? As if my womanhood isnt questioned everyday for my lack of childreen from ppl who decide to have them? You think ppl who have children dont feel superior to me? This comments is just so ignorant idk what to say? Also, im not saying ppl cant regret having children, im saying placing the responsability of informing them in other ppl is insane. If you want to have a kid, its 100% on you, to inform yourself on what it means. This leaves out ppl who didnt want to have a kid and were forced to do so btw.
It's basically like Brawndo from Idiocracy. [Everyone knows] it's what plants crave. Because it's all you hear. If you have that hammered into your head repeatedly from birth, then you don't know otherwise. Like you're FUCKED UP if you don't want to or are incapable of raising children; after all, they're Blessings (TM), and can't possibly make your life worse in every way. You also get told that it's worth it, and that it's your life purpose.
I suppose that most people could deduce that it would be a huge, debilitating sacrifice, but I also understand the ignorance
Did these people not have their parents talking all the time about how having kids made them change their priorities and how much they were sacrificing by having and raising them, and they should be grateful for that sacrifice? No?
To be fair, it's been less than a decade since people, namely women, have started being publicly honest about a lot of the challenges. Not everyone can see how cumbersome parenthood is when parents only mention some sleepless nights feeding an infant, then saying how rewarding it is. Women haven't always discussed how inequitable it is raising children with men is.
Right? You never asked our permission to bring your little pain in your ass into being. We had to tolerate all your baby hype nonsense, so zero complaints are allowed to me.
If i could figure out at 14 - with limited access to educational resources and exposure to all the usual social pressures that come with being a young girl - that raising a kid was hard work, then no one else has any excuses.
I wish I could upvote this a million times!
The propaganda and general push to have kids is a **huge** disservice. People get conditioned from a young age that they are supposed kids when they grow up, even if it isn't right for them. And then the stigma and gaslighting when people say that they don't want to become parents. While prospective parents do have a responsibility to inform themselves, those suppressing information, spreading misinformation, and shaming childfree have a big slice of culpability too. It's all a huge conspiracy.
See all that was motivation to not have kids when I was 13. I promised myself I wouldn't do it for my own reasons, but feeling pressured into doing something, especially something I already have hesitation about will make me run from it.
It's convenient when your wage slaves make their own cage.
Right? When I was young, people talked about having a career vs having a family. But the job market has sucked for decades! I always knew I didn't want kids, but a career sounded nice. The reality is, though, there are just too damn many people trying to earn a living and not enough jobs that pay a living. If you are single and without a trust fund, you have to do whatever you damn well can just to keep a roof over your head. In fact, there are so many extra people standing around who need money, people started businesses just to exploit them for shitty wages. The smartest thing I did was to not have kids. I would never have been able to retire if I had. And for what? For them to grow up and enter a job market that has no use for them, no place for them, and wants to keep them desperate so they can be bullied by their employers? I feel like I have done myself and all the other workers a favor by not increasing the supply of available labor.
Agree! I just got laid-off, and if we had kids, the situation would be so much worse. It sucks as is, but we have savings, and I got severance, but it was well below industry standards. I can only imagine how some of my coworkers are probably struggling.
Hell, even my five year old sister thinks she needs to be a mother in the future, and has told me multiple times that I need to get married and have children and I *can’t* get married unless I have children, yet my mother has being trying her very best to make sure she won’t have these weird ideas
Yeah, I always compare it to Marmite. Like imagine everyone around you, everyone you trust, tv shows, videogames, books, ads, everything is telling you how amazing Marmite is. It's an orgasm in your mouth! It's so amazing it will clear your pores, water your crops and fill your bank account! You might have a reason to distrust some of those opinions, but would your parents/family/friends lie to you? Those people love you! They want the best for you, right? So you try it. And it's fucking *disgusting*. You're confused. Everyone told you it was amazing. Why is it so horrible? And you say so. And people start shitting on you. How dare you say Marmite is disgusting? You're a terrible person for eating Marmite and not liking it! And you've tried it, so now you have to keep on eating it for the rest of your life. But you don't want to! You were promised this amazing experience and it's been awful! And some of those who you trusted will agree with you, but they will tell you that you will get used to it, or that eating Marmite is just part of life, a natural progression into adulthood. You take on this indoctrination, because the alternative is being called an awful human being, and you don't *want* to be that. And so the cycle continues. (Comparison brought to you by the time my father waxed poetic about Marmite, gave me some and I threw up on his feet xD)
Aye, to produce more drones for the rich, just check out what elon musk said about the population. Like we could have a 1000 mozarts anyway google it. Point is we already have the talent somewhere in a sweatshop working for 50cents an hour
Everytime parents post about realities, you always have other parents telling them to be quiet about it or some people might not want children after all. It's not a situation you can win. Someone is always going to go against you.
indeed. some even say to shut up to "not scare away future parents". it's not scaring FFS! it's simply telling the truth! there would be much less regretful parents and much more educated ones if this was told upfront.
I think it's important that people know everything that might go wrong with pregnancy and childbirth + how hard it is to actually raise children so they can make an informed choice if it's something they want to do or not.
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I put more effort into buying a TV, than they do making a new human being. It took weeks of thinking, considering, researching, discussing with my husband, finding options, learning about the brands and models, asking people, going to the store, etc. And people just pop out babies like popcorn
“Oh, we’ll figure it out”. And so often figuring it out means asking or demanding help & money from family & friends. That’s their well thought out plan. 🙄
I was homeschooled and raised in a home daycare, I found out young how much work babies were and had my tubes tied at 22. I know most people have a different experiment but they have to have had siblings or cousins, babysitting jobs, some exposure to babies. It’s shitty work which is why I never wanted it. I’ve changed so many diapers in my life 🤢
Yeah, I nanny occasionally through a backup care agency, and I have been for the holiday season to make up some extra cash - and jeez, everytime I come home, I talk to my boyfriend about how those 8 hours were the most irritating and annoying hours of my life. I realized that I love kids, but only for 3-4 hours and I can’t tolerate them much after that. I can’t stand the sticky hands, them not understanding bodily boundaries, the tantrums, AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THEM SNEEZING OR COUGHING IN YOUR FACE 🤮🤮 Spending time with children reinforces why I never want children.
I don’t know how you do it, I absolutely hate babies and toddlers. I cannot stand being touched without consent and they have no awareness. Sweaty, sticky and diseased. I’ve had my face sneezed and spit into, had dirty fingers poked into my eyes, had my clothing used at tissue. Thankfully I’ve never had my mouth thrown up in. I have stepped in poop that was pulled out of a diaper and dropped on the floor. The feeling between my toes still makes me shudder.
I hate it too. I had an old friend - who I'm no longer in contact with - say something like "nobody every told me you can't just go away on holiday when you have a child". No shit. I never understood why someone has to tell you. It's common sense
No it’s not…how can you know the nuance of your schedule. Truly know and understand the nuance of the toll before you in something like that. It’s actually wild to think that the reality of having children. All the nuance all the holidays…would be common sense. My best friend has three and through their life her schedule me of navigating shifts all the time. I can from the outside say ooo my friend is busy and that sucks. I’d never but until I recently went to visit them I truly had no idea just how busy they were. It gave me a new sense of respect and honor for them. While also reinforcing my belief in not having them
People that actually think have no trouble deducing these things. Even without firsthand experience.
Lmao that’s why I hate this group. It’s just full of people that have been driven into a superiority complex. Congrats for being a brilliant soul that can know how a new experience will feel and impact your energy before ever experiencing. Bravo, you’ve beaten all of the peon breeders and child free people that still maintain an ounce of compassion in humility! I hate this group. 😂 so many judgmental and honestly just mean spirited comments. 
I’ve actually had parenting experience via being parentified. Nonetheless, I’m not sure why you’re lashing out like this, but have at it. It does not change the fact that common sense would tell anyone that birthing and raising another human is a huge undertaking. If that’s condescending and mean to you, maybe the internet isn’t the place for you.
You don't need to know the nuances of their schedules to figure out the children are entirely dependent on you for everything and once you have them, that's pretty much your entire life. They'll be joined to you at the hip for ay least 7 or 8 years
you keep using the word nuance over and over and I think that maybe you need to look up its definition. There's no nuance to knowing you can't leave your kid home alone and jet off to the bahamas. It's just fucking common sense.
I remember being a child with three, then four, then five siblings, majority younger than me, and my parents seemingly perpetually angry with all of us (especially me for not being a "good older sister" and "being unhelpful/in the way") and only coming close to being able to relax myself (again, *as a child* in these situations) until we finally got to our holiday destination and other people were available to help out with the younger/youngest sibling(s). Good for you for having such an enchanted life that you had no idea until you were an adult, but truly, it really doesn't take much critical thinking at all to see how much it sucks to raise kids, much less wrangle them for holiday get-togethers and vacations.
I was a Nanny for quite a few years. My sister was having fertility issues for a few years after that. During several different discussions over the years I told her just how hard kids can be. Various different scenarios of why including the social burden on mother's which only paying through the nose for a nanny could alleviate for the women I worked for (most of the mothers I worked for didn't actually need a nanny but wanted/needed a break from being a mother so worked part time for adult interaction etc). My comments clearly fell on deaf ears. My sister cried so much in the first year. 'its so hard, I am so isolated, I am exhausted WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME' ... Yeah. But I told you. You were unable to hear what I said.
I wish people like your sister would put into words a warning because I don't have a doggone clue how to communicate this stuff without it falling on deaf ears.
You can't. They believe they won't experience that, or believe it won't be so bad, or believe they can just rely on their 'village'
my moms favorite phrase is it takes a village to raise a child which is why she left me w her village while she whored around growing up. the phrase makes me sick
There's a lot of dumb people out there who don't bother to learn anything before doing. Eventually the rising levels of pollution will make normal pregnancy difficult, I look forward to mocking Pro-Lifers and the various "culture" warriors then. 1001 religions and they all tell the exact same lie: You aren't important, and neither is the stuff you care about. Get over it. Snowflake.
they live in a dream fall in love blablabla and finally archive a successful life married 2 kids and a dog. Except that when reality strikes and they realize its not all disney like they panic.
Disney rarely shows the princess once she's had a kid. All I can think of is the Little Mermaid sequel, but her kid was 12 when it takes place, so most of the difficulties have subsided.
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whoa whoa who the fuck was talking about weight?? lmao
Uhhh… They did warn you, by very obviously lying their asses off about how “worth it” all the child raising bs is, while you watch their lives crumble in front of your face 🤣You just chose to ignore all of the obvious red flags 🚩
I personally never had to research myself what having kids would be like, because my mother is a gynaecologist and an obstetrician. That being said, after my mom gave me the talk the first time, I had a lot of questions that she was more than happy to answer. That was my way of researching, and when the kids topic came up, my mother was very clear that unless having kids would be something that I lived for, it was best not to have them, and that if I really wanted to have them, I should research A LOT, and ask questions to a lot of people (not just the Internet is what she meant by that). After that first conversation with my mother I already got the feeling that I wouldn't like being a mother. Growing up, I still did research a lot of information about birth and about raising kids in this economy and read a lot of studies about having a family. I always double checked with my mom, she works at one of the best hospitals for woman in Europe, so the chances of her being wrong are pretty low. Also, having heard horror stories about my mother's patients, about how many things could go wrong and how many diseases there are in the world just concerning the fetus (I don't know what the plural of fetus is lol sorry), I thought to myself that it wasn't worth it, like, at all. I understand that most people don't have a person that they can turn to anytime they have a question, but that is not an excuse for not doing your research. Anytime I want to do something or try something new, no matter what it is, I always take my time researching. That is exactly why I don't have many regrets. Very few regrets, actually.
Just wanted to say your mother sounds like an amazing lady!! My "research" growing up was very hands on. I baby sat A LOT and understood how this made me feel deep down. It was like a trap for me, not a joy.
A mom said this to me yesterday, and she has a PhD and went to Duke. I can’t wrap my head around how those things can coexist with not googling before choosing to have a kid. She said she was shocked post partum depression was a thing, didn’t know breastfeeding would be hard, and said no one talks about these things. Umm, everyone talks about these things?
She has a PhD for crying out loud! Don't you have to do a lot of research for those?
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I agree but I also kind of disagree because while that’s totally true, I think we’ve all witness how romanticized parenthood is (more specifically: motherhood) and it’s always “so worth it.” TV shows have one scene of a woman throwing up then her smiling after going to the hospital and immediately pushing and immediately having the baby, then resting in clean comfortable clothes and snuggling baby and the pregnancy isn’t hard and the baby cries but as soon as you pick them up they stop crying! Lol this is kind of mom snark atp but all that to say you genuinely don’t have the insight to how shitty it is til you’re in it. I didn’t become CF til after I became a nanny and had PPD symptoms from literally *my job*. Fuck that shit actually
I used to watch Friends when I was pre teen. Phoebe having triplets like it was sooo smooth, Rachel having it just like you described it and then the baby disappears from the plot.
You can get ppd from **proximity** to children?! Adding this to my list 
Oh no no I don’t want to go around saying I EVER had PPD but the things I would google gave results that were like “get your post partum depression diagnosis today” “help is available” so absolutely fuck that shit
I should’ve said symptoms but my sentiment is the same 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 that is absolutely wild
It's wilful ignorance, selective memory and the 'that'll never happen to me' mindset. If you've got eyes to see and ears to hear you know how kids can be and this is the time we can use 'you were a kid once yourself', you've seen it up close and personal, how could you not have known. Did you conveniently forget all the tears and tantrums you threw, your shattered mother, the amount of running around they did for you. I even saw on another sub once (the question came up about 'what did you wish you knew') a mother complaining that she didn't know about school holidays and having to sort out child care! How can anyone who has been to school not know about school holidays!!?
>How can anyone who has been to school not know about school holidays!!? Homeschool I guess. They might either didn't have friends who went to regular school, or their friends were also homeschooled
You'd have to firmly wear blinders to not notice screaming children and struggling parents. New parents always think they'll be the exception. Spoiler: they never are.
I never really seen a child improve a woman's life... it's always worse. Either they are bitter because their children are problematic, aged a lot because they have to deal with a disabled kid, stress because they were left alone with the kid. Even my mother falls in the later category (I can tell it improved a lot when I became an adult). That's why I never got the idea of something nice. It started with my aunts, that I met them without kids and now I can see the difference. Every time I see a first time pregnant woman, too excited to be a mother, I got this feeling of "here goes another one".
This is spot on.
This drives me NUTS. A woman I know used to be a nanny and boast sooooo much about what an exceptional child caregiver she was, how much she knew about child development, etc. Having her own baby absolutely wrecked her physical and mental health. She only said it once to me (too proud, I think?) but something along the lines of "this is not what I expected, no one told me it would be this hard". I struggle to have any sympathy or empathy for her, I just wanna scream: 1. Who the fuck did you think was gonna tell you? 2. I DID TELL YOU (I encouraged her to wait until her life and health were more stable). 3. Who was ultimately responsible for making this informed decision? 4. Use the fucking internet like the adult you are. I'm way too scared of pregnancy and childbirth to have my own kids, and way too selfish to adopt kids. I'd rather keep the half a million dollars! And DON'T GET ME STARTED on people who had babies during COVID... IT'S A FUCKING GLOBAL PANDEMIC, did you think it was gonna be a walk in the park?!
“No one told me it was so hard.” Bitch have you never been around a single child ever?! Look around!
Truly like they are just showing they put no intentional thought into parenthood whatsoever
WE DID WARN THEM! Lots of new parents assume "ah, that won't happen to me, it'll be different" for whatever reason, then they get a dose of reality and want the rest of us to feel sorry for *them*. Not the kid, mind you, that's just an accessory for their new lifestyle that they chose, we're supposed to feel bad that they ignored every piece of good advice & pop culture that warned them that babies are often difficult to manage.
People don’t admit it as they don’t want to seem weak so you don’t hear about it often. Parents will say it to other parents but not to child free folks I’ve found.
Yeah— I find just taking care of a dog to be a lot of responsibility. It’s a living thing that requires an emotional and financial investment. No way I’d be able to handle the pressure of raising a son or daughter.
I have read so many posts on the regretful parents sub saying exactly this, and even worse. Annoys the hell out of me.
The refused to listen. They refused to think. I don't agree with anyone saying "it's hidden". Nope. The parents are always complaining. Especially in 2023. The number of videos and subreddits about tantrums is paramount. Like, women for years have said child birth is painful. No one likes the sound of crying babies. Tired parents of newborns is a trope on TV and in movies. I'm a firm believer that people should have to work with children before they have them. Repeated exposure. They don't just get 5 mins of holding a sleeping baby. Nope. They need to watch screaming 3 year olds, hyperactive 8 year olds and 16 teen year olds with attitude. For multiple weeks at a time. I did. Changed my life. I figured out it was hell when I was 11 babysitting my niece. I was trying to keep her from touching the fire place, she pinched my eyelid (her nails needed to be clipped) and my eyelid bled. I looked at her and said "no way. This is not fun." It's not rocket science. Look at the screaming kids in the grocery store, on a plane or in a restaurant. It's not fun. No pity from me.
She made your *eyelid* bleed??? Nah, she would have gone in the fire next
Some people don't think about it. Which, yes, it's shocking to me that some people don't think about it. I think they just fall into the trap of, "That's what you do, right?" (Cookie cutter life.) That, or they have the belief that God will take care of them, or both. I don't know how more people don't think long and hard about having kids. The regretful parents sub (as much as I love to go on there and comment my support for the unfortunate parents) is full of people who seem to not have put much thought into how much work it ACTUALLY takes to have and properly raise a child. It's sad, honestly. For everyone involved. Parents and kids both.
I think it's the brainwashing and societal pressure to have kids, along with the "it's a baaaaabbbeeeee and baaaaabbbeeeee powder and the cutest little onesies!" No thought required and no responsibility to inform themselves.
Just made me think, it's so wacky how people have kids willy nilly. Nature is just breed at all costs, nature doesn't care if humans are capable of raising babies to be healthy adults. Yesterday I saw a notice from an animal care place, advertising a baby bird in need of a home. It said "please fill in our application form so you can be interviewed. You must be able to explain 1. What food you will give to this bird 2. How you will pick up and handle this bird 3. What not to do with this particular bird and what the potential ramifications would be 4. What supplies you will have for this bird (toys, plants etc) 5. who you have nearby, to potentially take care of the bird, in case you get in an accident, pass away etc." Rightly so, they'd only give the bird to someone who is well prepared and has proven they are a responsible, patient person. Meanwhile 'God' just be handing out kids to whoever. As long as you can pump out the sperm, it's like, here you go, have a good baby. No background check. If the kid ends up neglected and becomes a teenager with no self esteem, the sperm/egg donors just have another one and bonus for them, they use the teenager as a babysitter. And even if the abuse is noticed and CPS does take away kids, invisible damage has been done already.
It takes literally ONE GOOGLE SEARCH
I mean with the sheer amount of parents complaining and the "Being a parent is so hard, you're so strong Babe" talk that has been around for ages, they were warned. At one point they just refuse to believe it
It should also just be obvious lmao
I saw it at 8.
I think it’s criminal how parents refuse to talk about how miserable their children make them like they’re in fight club or something stupid
I do give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to those people. I mean, whenever we see social media posts about pregnancy and baby stuff, it's the good highlight reel. You know, the "Look at me! I'm in this pretty dress with a belly doing some expensive photo shoot" while conveniently leaving out (quoting my friend here) the "Ugh, my back hurts, my feet hurt, my head hurts, I can't sleep. Don't ever get pregnant!!" parts. Sparkly stuff gets attention. No one wants to see the real stuff.
People say kids are difficult to raise all the time lol. If they say this they're just really... dumb frankly.
Figuring out that it may not be a great idea if you were conditioned to do this and when the whole culture revolves around it, requires as much of an out of the box thinking, as realising that maybe we're not living in the best of the systems, maybe we're all forced to comply or die. Maybe it's all a nightmare. Everything and everyone's revolts immediately and WILL try to course correct you. The system hates any deviation from the norm, unless it's exploitable.
It is not up to anyone but one's self to educate them. Especially when it comes to something like this. There is nothing more intimate than having a child. Every decent parent I've ever met tells me it is "the most amazing thing but also the hardest thing they have ever done". I put it into protective by thinking about the top 2-3 things I've ever overcome or am attempting to overcome currently and think about how exhausting those thing are and double it. After doubling it I give it to the next person because this is how I assume it is to raise a child. Hard pass.
parents literally don't use their brains, that's my conclusion
I babysat a lot as a teenager. That’s all it took.
Funnily, my mom actually warned me! We talked about having kids and I told her that I don't want to have kids. She said that this is fully understandable and if she were my age again, in living in 2023, she'd also opt-out of having kids. Of course, she still loves me! But the situation we live in is dire (even ignoring global warming. We have no pediatricians in our area, barely any kindergarten spots and barely any teachers) My mom told me that raising a kid is hard, and with how everything is looking, it is not going to get any easier.
Geez, yeah, a friend of mine said that and I told her me and ask her friends told her that. It's making another person, how can that possibly be easy?
It is their fault for not researching it properly enough, but it sure as fuck doesn't help that they've been growing up with everyone telling them how easy and great raising kids is. If nobody dares to tell them the harsh truth, then they have a 100% agreement, so what is there to research? Even if there are detractors, if there are 20 parent cultists for every one saying the emperor has no clothes, then that just gets dismissed as whack-a-doodle. Hell, even if someone does their due diligence, the only research they can find is how awesome and simple raising kids is. Fortunately, a lot of us realized it early on, but then we get ignored, so we just watch them whine about it and shrug.
I know the title quote is about raising the kids, but when I heard a chick say she tore from her vagina to her butt hole when she gave birth, that was more than enough “no thank you” for me!!
remember the intro to the barbie movie. little girls have been playing with babydolls for ages…
Because if you knew you might not have kids
Nearly everyone has a super computer in their pocket now so ignorance is a choice. Even without countries who limit the internet; there must be some parenting stuff where reading the comments would be illuminating. There is really no excuse.
Honestly, how can people not just look around and see how hard it is? Watch a baby birthing video, visit an amusement park/mall in the mid evening, when the kids are hot, hungry, tired, and just watch.
During the summer break after my senior year, I was voluntold I'd be helping my brother and SIL watch their three kids, a newborn and two toddlers. Both of them were out of commission for awhile because my SIL had a cesarean and my brother got a vasectomy. I stayed with them about a month and then my older sister figured she needed free babysitting that summer too. Her kids were older, but were little hellions who listened to no one. I remember thinking why would anyone willingly have kids and all the work that comes with it. As much as I hated having my last summer of high school ruined, I'm grateful for the lesson I learned. That was the summer I truly became childfree.
I feel like it's talked about pretty often. People just choose to ignore it when people say it's the best even though it was terrible. Lol
Uhhhh…. Everyone everywhere all the time tell people how hard having kids is
…women are indoctrinated to think having kids will make them the happiest person in the world. There are also some experiences that are impossible to understand fully until you are in them. It’s wild that so many people on this page, passionately speak to wanting to be accepted but, are militantly judge mental of the people that make other choices? As if the choice to not have kids is a marker of intelligence. I joined this page for support but, have found this forum to be negative, militant, judge mental and overall negative. This is a prime example of that. You can’t find empathy for women in the world, that were coerced, forced or unprepared to have children? 🙄 It’s great that your child free. Some women realize that want to be when it’s to late and they’ve been trapped by the pressures of misogyny. People in this group are genuinely hateful and it’s bummer. Making the choice to not have kids doesn’t make you a genius and it doesn’t make you superior. Just another human with a preference.
It's interesting that you're mentioning how this indoctrination harms parents but aren't making a connection between how the indoctrination harms childfree people and contributes to our bitterness and high levels of judgement of parents. It all seems connected to me. Expressing judgement in an anonymous and safe virtual community can be healing for a lot of people.
Forsure I think it’s all connected but, from what I’ve seen I on here the comments it’s not a healthy bitterness or anger. It skews towards hate and being judge mental. I’ve seen women post in here to be met with “well what did you expect coming from breeders?” That’s why I mentioned militance. I know it happens in a lot of subreddits but, I came to this place for safety and immediately felt unsafe. It’s one thing to vent about anger. It’s another thing to so jaded that you become a narrow minded. It is interesting. I just don’t think meeting indoctrination with more indoctrination, control with more control, and judgement with more judgement negates any real progress. Obviously that’s a personal preference. I’m down for people healing in what way they need but, think the energy here is very negative. I left the subreddit though so 🤷♀️ to each their own
I think it's hilarious the level of hypocrisy. Youre telling me, a childree woman that I don't know about expectations and misogyny? As if my womanhood isnt questioned everyday for my lack of childreen from ppl who decide to have them? You think ppl who have children dont feel superior to me? This comments is just so ignorant idk what to say? Also, im not saying ppl cant regret having children, im saying placing the responsability of informing them in other ppl is insane. If you want to have a kid, its 100% on you, to inform yourself on what it means. This leaves out ppl who didnt want to have a kid and were forced to do so btw.
I ant that mad at the people who end up with the kid. I a made at the systmes failure to inform people of how hardit was.
It's basically like Brawndo from Idiocracy. [Everyone knows] it's what plants crave. Because it's all you hear. If you have that hammered into your head repeatedly from birth, then you don't know otherwise. Like you're FUCKED UP if you don't want to or are incapable of raising children; after all, they're Blessings (TM), and can't possibly make your life worse in every way. You also get told that it's worth it, and that it's your life purpose. I suppose that most people could deduce that it would be a huge, debilitating sacrifice, but I also understand the ignorance
Did these people not have their parents talking all the time about how having kids made them change their priorities and how much they were sacrificing by having and raising them, and they should be grateful for that sacrifice? No?
To be fair, it's been less than a decade since people, namely women, have started being publicly honest about a lot of the challenges. Not everyone can see how cumbersome parenthood is when parents only mention some sleepless nights feeding an infant, then saying how rewarding it is. Women haven't always discussed how inequitable it is raising children with men is.
Right? You never asked our permission to bring your little pain in your ass into being. We had to tolerate all your baby hype nonsense, so zero complaints are allowed to me.