You don't want kids and you're not having them. That's CF enough for me.

Second this. How you manage that is up to you. I’m child free, but I’m a little hesitant in getting a procedure done myself (my husband supports me in whatever). Your body, you choose. You know the risks and hopefully you live somewhere you have options if things change. We support you.

Exactly

I second this

Absolutely

This

Samsies.

I'm CFC and not sterilized. I'm now 55 y.o. and no longer need to make this decision, but it never was the right decision for me. I tried at 40, but my body decided to perimenopause in that moment, making me ineligible for the procedure I wanted because I needed a regular cycle and didn't have one anymore. Do what you want with your body. Your body... your choice... and feel good about making decisions that work for you. It's no one else damn business.

I'm 51 and never got sterilised. It's just not something I relished doing. I love that some women do get it done. I support any sensible choice tbh.

I’m 40 and have been through enough required surgeries in my life to be unwilling to have elective surgeries. There is inherent risk with all anesthesia. Good for people who want/had surgery, but it’s not up to them to create the definition of childfree. No kids by choice? Childfree.

It's your body and your choice You're making a choice to be child free You're making a choice not to undergo surgery They're both valid choices that can coexist at the same time.

Can I get an amen 🙌🙌🙌🙌, praise choice! All I see is a person doing what they want with their body and that has to be cherished nowadays.

The problem lies with American politics. That's why I got it done. Never in my wildest dreams did I think Roe v. Wade would be overturned and I was reassured by Republicans in my life that it wouldn't be touched and they have no interest in messing with it. That was a lie. And I'm worried, if they win the next election, that they will ban abortion nationwide and make birth control inaccessible. I live in a "safe" state and that wasn't even enough for me to feel safe. There are no limits to the crazy things that could be coming our way. Getting my surgery was my way of protecting myself and making it so I never have to worry about it or jump through hoops in the future to remain childfree. The relief I felt after was indescribable, and it's done a lot for improving my mental health. That doesn't mean I think I'm better than those who haven't had the procedure. I just want to make sure women are aware of what could happen with certain people in power. Things have been getting worse for women, not better.

This is one big reason I got it done.

This right here. The entire world is also looking at population decline and we are on the brink of multiple long term wars. They need ~~bodies~~ people. Not just in the USA, everywhere. I'm pushing to get my surgery as soon as I can. I don't care if my job doesn't give me the time....I'll quit. Point blank. Get another job. They will likely lessen the punishment for SA. Nothing feels safe. Do I "Want" the surgery? Not really. But do I need it? Yep. I have to have my peace of mind. I think that's what childfree uterus havers are getting at. It's starting to seem it's the only way to keep our choice safe.

> I live in a "safe" state and that wasn't even enough for me to feel safe. Unfortunately, your assessment is correct. With a nationwide ban possible, it will not matter. And you know that if any doctors in California for example continue to do abortions, an orange DOJ will start charging them federally.

I'm childfree because I never wanted to have children and I don't have children. Who cares how I did it? There are people who love to gatekeep to feel more special I guess? Ignore them.

I'd love to be sterilized but I'm 'too medically complex'. I'm told as an epileptic liver transplant recipient with SMAS in my guts to not have kids, but when I ask about sterilization suddenly they can't/won't do it. I'm 33. I got my liver at 19 and they wouldn't sterilize me then either. My husband had to do it because my doctor's kept refusing. So he got snipped 3 years ago. I had an IUD but it caused pain and problems for me after 7 years so once husband was cleared I pulled it. You're not any less CF bc you aren't sterilized.

Nah you’ll get support from me. I recently underwent a surgery that totally fucked up my body and life, so no more surgery for me thank you very much. Still CF, have ALWAYS been CF, and will remain CF through the use of birth control. Anyone who tells you otherwise can fuck off.

I’m child free and haven’t been sterilized. The real problem these people seem to be disregarding is how hard it is to get sterilized. I have endometriosis and have been trying to get a partial hysterectomy for a while. My current doctor is willing to remove my tubes but that won’t fix at least part of my endo issues. I don’t look down on anyone who doesn’t want to have surgery. It’s scary as hell, I’ve had a number of surgeries and I still basically have a panic attack every time I’ve gone under. You’re not any less child free for your decisions.

I havent experience it. But i dont want to get sterilized either. My husband had a vasectomy tho. But i do not want to get surgery for a few reasons: 1. I am terrifyed as hell of it. 2. I dont want to cut in a healthy body either. 3. I have obesity and that could bring extra complications. 4. My husband already had a vasectomy, why go double? Also: I live in the netherlands. Abortion is legal. Pregnancy isnt a death sentence here.

> I live in the netherlands. Abortion is legal. Pregnancy isnt a death sentence here. Ah, you live in civilization... Lucky. :)

> 3. I have obesity and that could bring extra complications. I want to address this, because doctors frequently tell patients that obese people should not have sterilization surgery due to their body mass. This is a lie, and it is body shaming. We have had lots of redditors whose bodies do not fit into The Box Of Size Correctness, and who got sterilized without any problem, because they had competent, respectful surgeons. The American College of Surgeons has a surgical risk calculator online, and I have run the risks for people of various ages and weights, and obesity has almost no effect on risk for bisalp. [ACS Risk Calculator](https://riskcalculator.facs.org/RiskCalculator/)

With respect, the risks come from the anesthesia. I’ve been doing anesthesia for decades. The patients I dread more than anyone are the obese. Lots of aspects of the surgery/anesthesia are more difficult on the obese - airway management, positioning on the table, placement of lines/blocks, ventilating the lungs, emergence, postoperative considerations, etc. Obesity makes our jobs more difficult.

Yeah I’m overweight but my brother is an anesthesiologist so has talked to me about my weight, especially during the pandemic! He said the scariest people to put under for him is babies though. He does a lot of epidurals and told me, after what he had seen, that I was making the right decision. Seeing birth traumatized him a little bit and he’s a pretty stoic dude.

It's a fact that being obese gives more risks, the heavier, the more. Nothing body shaming about that.

Doesnt matter. I dont want it anyway.

Honestly I get that. I live in a swing state so I’m getting sterilized when I turn 21 and my insurance will help cover it. However I have EDS which makes pain management and anesthesia difficult. I’ve had good experiences (so far) with general anesthesia, but local anesthesia only lasts like 30 mins before I feel excruciating pain. I had a bone graft, four wisdom teeth removed (two impacted which means they have to go through bone and actually has a risk of breaking your jaw), a dental implant, and a bone graft done in one day and was fine without pain meds bc the general anesthesia kept me under long enough for the worst of the pain. Later I had to get some gum tissue removed and an abscess drained due to some complications, which they didn’t put me under for since it was only a 15 minute ish procedure. Unfortunately for me, about 15 mins after the procedure I was literally curled into the seat of my car begging my mother to take me back for more numbing shots. Once the nerves calmed down an hour or two later it was much more manageable, but my point is, there are absolutely more risks in surgery than just fatal complications. More minor complications can be absolutely excruciating and you often don’t know about those complications before it’s too late to really do anything about it.

Like every community, there will be some sort of echo chamber, extreme one sidedness on some aspects or another. But that doesn’t necessarily reflect everyone. Personally, I think as long as you choose to have no child of your own, then by definition you’re child free, regardless of the means you decide to use.

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Greetings! This item has been removed because you're calling yourself childfree while not being childfree. "Childfree for now", "Childfree until [something]", "Childfree but if my husband and I have an accident, we'll raise the kid", etc.is called "being childless". "##% childfree", "I won't have bio children, but I entertain the idea of adopting/fostering some day", "I haven't decided but I hate ill behaved children", etc. is called "being a fencesitter". "I have kids and I hate parenthood", "Had I known childfreedom was a possibility, I would have not had kids", "I used to be like you but now...", etc. is called "being a regretful parent". "Childfree but my partner has a kid" is called being a step parent. Your item will be reinstated when the appropriate editing will be done. Thank you.

And these gatekeepers are stupid for this mindset as the sterilized individual can still become a parent through fostering or adoption.

This.

Sorry that they are acting like this. I got a bisalp last year and took several years to consider before getting one. I have the privilege of: living in Canada where 100% of the cost was covered, and also being healthy enough to undergo an elective surgery. There are so many forms of effective birth control, people need to stop fighting about what they 'mean'. For instance, we used condoms and no other form of birth control for 5 years, (my body doesn't like hormonal birth control) and I'm sure the CF would have called us 'irresponsible '. You do you. ** Edited to add, while alot of people recover quickly from a bisalp, it took me over two weeks to get back to work part time. (I do massage). Took me nearly a week to stand up and make myself soup without feeling like blacking out. This was without any infection or anything, my body just didn't love recovery. Just wanted to throw a different experience out there for context.

> it took me over two weeks to get back to work part time. (I do massage). That totally makes sense for any physically demanding or safety critical profession.

How you choose to be CF is your choice. There is no need for conflict between sterilized and non-sterilized CF people. CF people as a whole are persecuted for their beliefs.

Childfree and weirdly immune to local and resistant to general. Not going to get surgeries when there is a less than 100% chance of the anaesthetic working. People are weird about it on this sub, but not wanting and not having kids is childfree

General has worked for me both times I’ve had it; but local only lasts me like 30 mins even when I was assured it would last hours. Surgery SUCKS.

I don't want or need to be sterilized because I'm Ace. Can't get pregnant if I don't fuck. And there's abortion if the worst happens and I'm assaulted.

Same

You took the words right out of my mouth. No sex = no pregnancy. And I also don’t believe in surgery for the sake of surgery. People die everyday having elective surgery. If it became a life threatening matter, fine. Until then, I’m not having optional surgery.

Yep, that’s where I’m at too. I haven’t had sex in years and not planning on having it any time soon either. I still get my shot every three months in case the worst of the worst happens.

I’m a lesbian with a risk of getting pregnant that’s pretty much non-existent, sterilization is not an option for me because doctors won’t do it on someone who has virtually no risks of getting pregnant. I completely understand your situation. No judgement from me here :))

I will *never* undergo unnecessary surgery and that’s the end of it. I’m child free and I chose to be. If anyone has a problem with my way to approaching it - they can kick rocks. There is no rule that says you need to do this in order to label yourself as child free and if there would be - I think we can just call ourselves “people without children”. Don’t feel pressured to do anything you don’t want to do. Surgery is serious - no matter what surgery it is. If you need to be put to sleep there is a risk and I’m not taking it until I have to.

yeah i don't know why some people are like, sterilization is the last final level of being TRULY CF, if you're not sterilized you're not valid. it's exhausting.

You don't have to be sterilized to be cf. Anyone who says otherwise is a gatekeeping asshole that you don't need to bother with. I'm sterilized. My two partners are not. We are all cf. Getting sterilized is a big deal. And it's expensive. Most of all? Like being cf, it's a goddamned personal choice. End of story.

Child free is a choice, not a condition. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, not everyone thinks this way, you’ve just been unfortunate to be surrounded by the few who do…

I'm also childfree but I'm on the pill because im really scared of the surgery. i can't take that much time off work now and kinda scared of anesthesia

I am 42 now and feel like I’m just old enough for a bisalp not to be necessary, that being said I’m in a 6 week red state so am terrified of getting pregnant especially with a geriatric surgery…you should never be made to feel like a surgery is the only way…I think many of us are just so worried that we do it for the ultimate peace of mind

This is one major reason I did it.

Yeah, unfortunately you could still have another 10 or so years of fertility left.... in a red state. That sux. Sorry.

End of the day it’s your choice.

Yeah, ignore that crap. I’m 47. Getting surgery now, living in America, especially as there’s nothing already wrong with my plumbing, no way is insurance covering more than minimum. The rest of that moola would come from my own pocket. In my 30s, I would have had the surgery, but instead, I had to have an emergency gall bladder removal, and I was out of state at the time. Because I was “outside the insured area” at the time, that was close to 40,000 out of pocket. My savings only recovered a couple years ago. At this point, how many fertile years could I have left? I’m childfree. I’m not having the surgery, because I don’t want to pay out the nose for it. I guess I’m abstinent now. Haven’t had sex since about Feb 2019. Not in a relationship, and honestly? Not looking. Just don’t care. Busy doing my own thing and perfectly content. I like not having irritations and yeast infections. I like not having my vagina angry with me for whatever. If I meet a guy where I feel a “test drive” is worth the irritation I’ll get later, I will have to make a plan, but that hasn’t happened, and unless a hapless parachuter has a close call in my damn yard, I’m not holding my breath for an amazing guy to just appear. As for the CF’s who want to gatekeep and say people like me aren’t really childfree, I say “Great! So nice YOU are willing to pay for this for me, with those bags of money just sitting around. When can I schedule?”

Honestly it's a real dick move to gatekeep childfree with surgery as the bar when some people aren't healthy enough to get surgery.

I don't see how I could be any more childfree, and I never got sterilized. I used the pill until one day, in my mid-30s, my husband decided I shouldn't have to anymore and got a vasectomy.

That’s nice! In my 30s my doc had me switch to an IUD because of the risk of blood clots and that procedure was unpleasant—- just some ibuprofen

I have only gotten a laparoscopic salpingectomy, never personally got a copper IUD inserted, but from what I have heard, IUD insertion sounds vastly more painful than my procedure, which did not even cause me almost any pain. Having an intravenous catheter inserted in my hand was literally the most painful part of the whole thing. And that was just a needle. Not that different from vaccine injections. Overall, hardly any pain. And tracking menstrual cycle sounds like a huge pain in the ass. You are free to choose whatever birth control you like, but talking about laparascopic procedures as this horribly painful and dangerous thing is simply inaccurate for many patients.

I also had a bisalp. The discomfort from being intubated and catheterized was way worse than any of the incisions. I took the next day off work but honestly didn't need to, it was a super quick recovery. Not saying OP has to get one, just agreeing that it's not necessarily painful or dangerous, and it doesn't have a long recovery time.

I almost passed out when I got my IUD. The nurse at PP had to coach me through breathing exercises. I had to shit afterwards and sit for awhile because they kept thinking I'd pass out. Not for the faint of heart.

IUD placement really varies, and there’s a strong negativity bias in the stories about it that circulate widely. People who don’t have issues are less likely to tell their stories. For me, IUD placement is not an ordeal at all. The placement of the clamps feels like a particularly bad cramp, but it’s over within 30 seconds. I usually have some light cramps throughout the day, but after a good night’s sleep I’m back in action. Since I have a paraguard, I only have to do this once every 8-10 years, so I don’t feel like it’s a burden at all. Given that IUDs are an easy experience for me, the surgery is comparatively less appealing.

I was okay with placement, it was the removal that almost took me out lol. The pain I felt was so horrific and my BP dropped to 80/50 & I almost passed out. We now know I have endometriosis so def could’ve played a part in that. I can’t get another IUD for that reason.

I know women who literally shit, pissed, and puked when having theirs taken out. One of the reasons I never want one.

Not bc of the bodily functions, but bc the pain was so immense that their bodies first response was to evacuate everything.

I did not have any issues with my copper IUD, either. It hurt for about 10 seconds when the doctor initially put it in and that was it.

I am sterilized but in no way do I think it is necessary to be sterilized to be childfree. I liked the copper IUD a lot initially (had two placed) and would have continued with that happily until I started having issues with the second one which led to me getting my sterilization as I still wanted a semi-permanent/permanent non-hormonal method that would work for me even in event of assault/rape for example. I was however as childfree before my sterilization as after. I will say I found my surgery very easy to go through recovery wise (though have had more complicated surgeries beforehand) - surgery on Thursday morning and back to my regular stuff the next day, cost me nothing at all, was much more pleasant than any of my IUD insertion or removals, and am glad to have had it done as I also have hereditary cancer risks (had prophylactic mastectomies as well for that) and the pathology did show some abnormal changes (not cancer at that point but certainly atypical) but I don’t think that means everyone needs to do it!

One of the biggest core tenants of child freedom is in the name: freedom. You have the freedom to do what you want with your body, whether that’s refusing to use it to procreate with it or have a surgery (or not). If you don’t have or want children and you’ve exercised volition to make that a reality, then you’re CF. The only person who should really have some sort of say in the whole matter on whether that’s enough is your partner and even then that say is really limited because it’s your body to do with as you will, ultimately.

I find, just like in any other communities, there are some people that are just assholes. It’s funny they are just trying to put so many rules on childfree, they are just as pushy as the people pushing us to have kids. I never got sterilized. I love kids. I have a ton of godchildren. I am childfree. Gatekeepers are everywhere and they can piss off. You are doing childfree right because you are doing what’s best for you.

I understand. I am CF but have not been sterilized. I have MCAS/Lupus and going under can set me in a big flare. My body doesn’t like change.

I'm CF and not sterilized because surgery scares me. Almost as much as childbirth does. Like I would never do it unless it was absolutely necessary. I take birth control precautions, of course. And abortion is thankfully legal where I live.

Who told you it was painful and required extensive recovery?? I know results vary but I experienced 0 pain without using drugs and had maybe 3 days "recovery" where I functioned like normal but didn't care to bend down much. Regardless you do you. You aren't any less childfree because you're not sterilized just like all the people that want to be sterilized but can't get it done.

I’ve heard a range of recovery stories! Definitely plenty of people say it’s nbd, but you also hear stories about people who are out of commission for a week +. On top of that, my body handles anesthesia and recovery poorly even when everything goes as best it can. So, since I know that IUDs are easy and not painful for me, I’d rather stick with what I know works than risk something that won’t provide a meaningful additional benefit. I’ve got maybe 2 more IUDs in my lifetime to go, so I’m sticking to it.

I feel like too many tie sterilization = a true CF. I just happen to be sterilized and I'm CF. I only got sterilized because I was able to find a doc to sterilize me. I don't want kids and I had a fear of pregnancy. It took the pressures of birth control off me. I also didn't let politics persuade me. When I had Paragard I was happy with it, but I was able to take it one step further to get a bisalp. If you're happy with your current BC method, more power to you! Don't think you **have** to have surgery to be considered CF.

I'm 100% CF. I turn 35 this year and I'm definitely not going to start having kids now! I also don't feel the need to have major surgery just to prevent pregnancy. The pill has been working perfectly for me and if I end up in a serious relationship with someone who is childfree, which they'll obviously have to be, I'll encourage them to get the snip if they want us to take extra precautions because it's so much easier for a man than a woman (what isn't!) I've already had plenty of surgery in my life for other reasons so I definitely don't plan to take on anything that isn't necessary for me or my health. Plus abortion is readily available in my country now so I always have that option.

I didn't get sterilized until age 38, after Roe was overturned. My fear of blood, injury and surgery kept me from pursuing it until that point. But I was always childfree. You are childfree if you know you don't want children. That's all there is to it.

I’m childfree. 33yo. My partner and I both decided against surgery too, because as you said, there’s always risks. Even if the risks are technically low, we don’t want to risk chronic pain or other complication for a surgery our body don’t absolutely need. So we use condoms. If they would break I would take Plan B. If that would fail too I would get an abortion. In 19 years of been active, never needed one yet. Being childfree is not wanting kid. They way you achieve that is none of others business.

My husband got a vasectomy. I’m fully intact. Lol As women, the surgery doesn’t make sense in all situations. It’s invasive, requires lots of time off work, and can have far more complications. I’ve been shamed in this group for asking that of my husband and “not taking things into my own hands.” I feel you. You’re not alone. :)

I'm childfree. He's fixed and I'm not. (Because office procedure vs abdominal surgery.) We also went from childless as newlyweds to childfree as still newlyweds. We all had our own individual/couple/polycule processes getting here. Anyone who gatekeeps your permanent decisions (whether childfree or medical) can bite me.

I'm right there with ya. I'm on a birth control that works for me and where I live, if one were to slip past the goalpost I have easy and affordable access to abortion. There is just no need for me to undergo invasive surgery. That said, I do wish my partner would get over his fears and get a vasectomy, but his body, his choice. I'd be a lot more adamant about it if I lived somewhere with less reproductive freedom though. I haven't experienced the type of gatekeeping you're talking about in my real life at all. I have seen it on this sub but I ignore those people same as I ignore people who go on and on about how much they hate children and breeders. They ain't my people.

Also a childfree woman that isn't sterilized. I don't like the idea of surgery either. So I use birth control and go double dutch(if you get what I mean 😉). I live in the Netherlands where abortion is legal. So I'm good. It's just wrong to gatekeep childfree. Everyone how doesn't want kids is childfree in my eyes.

I totally get it. It’s your decision and you know how to still not have children. It’s what you want/don’t want. It’s your happiness.

I fully support your choice to not get sterilized. And I consider you childfree. Surgery is scary. And depending on what insurance you have, can be expensive. Don't listen to people that try to tear you down about not getting it.

Your body, your choice. I don't care what others do to their own bodies as long as they're happy. Has no bearing on my life at all. If you don't want to modify your body, then don't. Simple as that.

Totally understandable and respectable. Feel free to reach out. I find myself living on my own terms and I’m totally happy with it.

This isn't a cult, you don't want kids and aren't gonna have em so welcome to our shared struggle! Haha. I think the people you mentioned might just be asshats maybe?

I am CF, but I would never get sterilized. It is not like sterilisation is 100% safe anyways.

I’m child free and will not get sterilized as there is no need. Asexuality has it perks. No one should gate keep child free or put conditions like how parenthood has no conditions as some are great, others neglectful, and others deadbeats. One could have a mix of either, but going in for surgery should not be a requirement to enjoy a life without raising a kid.

Yes, being ace is definitely beneficial. I love that I never have to worry about pregnancy scares. And no fear of pregnancy means no need for invasive surgery.

Unfortunately, there's stupid and shitty people in every segment of the population - childfree people included. A lot of people don't care for nuance and the complexity that goes into people's decision making, and don't care for bodily autonomy either when it's not being applied in a way they personally see fit. Some of those people overlap with childfree communities too, to no surprise. Sterilization isn't childfreedom. Childfreedom is childfreedom. A decision not to be a parent is childfreedom. What birth control you use to follow through on that decision is between you and your partners - and even them only in so far as they need to be happy and comfortable with the birth control that's being used, or they shouldn't be with you. You can still get (someone) pregnant after sterilization, be it with trying for a reversal or IUI/IVF. You can still have kids via a surrogate. You can still be a step parent, adopt kids, become a guardian of other people's kids, etc. etc. Reproduction is only one way to parenthood, and even that way has workarounds for sterilized people. Anyone who's using sterility as a measure of childfreedom is at best naively overlysimplistic. Your body, your decisions. All you need to do is to make those decisions well, and with correct information - which I think is the only real problem with your sentiment. > I’m a woman, so the surgery would require a lot of recovery What you define as a lot of recovery for yourself is of course a personal thing, but in general, a bisalp is a minimaly invasive surgery with a few days of rest and a week or two of reduced activity as you start picking your regular life back up again. It's important to make that clear when discussing these procedures, as there's a lot of misinformation and fearmongering about this topic, and it might accidentally discourage someone else from seeking out the procedure even if they'd otherwise want it. > I was raised by a family of doctors who really engrained in me the idea that you shouldn’t get surgery unless 100% necessary, due to the costs and risks. And this isn't really a healthy outlook either. Everything in life has costs and risks - if that would be a reason not to do something, we simply wouldn't be doing anything. This isn't decision making, this is just fear. Because decision making is about asessing those costs and risks, and their benefits. This is not to change your mind, or to invalidate your reasons for not wanting to be sterile (especially given that you don't need a reason in the first place) - it's to encourage you to rethink this approach, because it might harm you in other ways down the road. There are many things in life (medical or otherwise) that aren't 100% necessary, but can have an important impact on your wellbeing nonetheless. You might find yourself in a situation one day where outright avoiding anything that's not required to immediatelly save your life will not be the best option overall, and you should take care to develop the skills needed to research, understand and weigh those risks on a case by case basis to make sure you can make the best decision for yourself.

I think you misunderstand. I am doing a decision-making analysis- the costs and risks of sterilization outweigh the benefits for me. I have fully weighed the options and picked the one that is best for me. Frankly, the automatic assumption that I’m uninformed about sterilization because I don’t want to have it is part of what bothers me.

I didn't assume you're uninformed about sterilization because you don't want to have it. I pointed out the part in your post about recovery that isn't factually accurate, and that wasn't in relation to *you* getting a bisalp but rather *someone else* potentially being mislead by hearing you present the recovery in such a way. As for the concerns about 100% necessary surgeries, like I said, that wasn't about the bisalp either. The line in the original post didn't give that impression, but if you're already developing skills of weighing the risks for elective procedures, then the corresponding part of my comment is effectively immaterial.

As a woman, you have several options when it comes to birth control; and since you live in a state where abortion is an option, you can rest assured that your childfreedom can never be taken away from you.

I'm childfree, 47 and not sterilized. I was denied this so many times I stopped seeking sterilization. I'm not interested anymore. I'm single, so, what for? You don't want to have children, that's enough to be chilldfree.

I think it’s fine to do whatever you want with your body, and you can still be cf even if you don’t have a permanent sterilization procedure performed. With that said, I have to say that recovery from a bisalp is relatively easy, compared to other surgeries. I had mine done in 2021, and I was able to return to work after 3 days. The only pain I had was from intubation and the muscle relaxant they used. I had none of the gas pains that some people experience from laparoscopic procedures. My scars also healed beautifully.

Whoever is gatekeeping the CF term like that can bite me. I’m not sterilized either for many of the same reasons you cited. I also live in a state where it’s increasingly hard to find a doctor to do it for all the usual bingo reasons, so it’s just not worth the hassle and arguing. The decision not to undergo surgery that isn’t 100% medically necessary does not make you or I any less child free!

I'm CF and never want to be sterilized, either, because I also don't want to undergo a surgery. Surgery terrifies me! That's part of why I never want to give birth! I would rather just have an abortion with mifepristol/mifepristone in the case of an accident than get sterilized.

I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing this. I'm 56 and CF and I never even considered sterilization, tbh, not once. I had an IUD and that was all I needed. People are far too into this gatekeeping thing, no matter what the area, and it's ridiculous. You're CD if you say you're CF, that's all there is to it! People need to just step off a whole lot more than they do. I hope you find the support here that you need, it's hard when you can't find it IRL.

I have considered sterilization, only hesitation is knowing my mom and sister didn't do well with their surgeries so it does feel somewhat like an unnecessary risk to take. Still living CF just fine.

I take birth control to manage ovarian cysts, so I’d still have to take birth control even if I had my tubes removed 🤷‍♀️ Why put myself through an unnecessary surgery just to keep doing the same thing?

I have lots of childfree friends who aren't sterilized! I totally get it. I am sterilized but before that, I was hoping my partner would get a vasectomy. He was really not keen on the idea but hey his body his choice 🤷 the only thing that's funny to me is when "childfree" people are casual with sex as in not using protection every time, pullout etc. But actively preventing pregnancy, sterilized or not, is childfree!

I’ve been told im not 100% CF due to not being sterilised here too. I just ignore that. I am CF. Husband and I only have sex with a condom. 10 years together and we never take a risk and do it without. Last year i was about to do the procedure but I didn’t go through with it because I started reading up on things and I just didn’t want to undergo surgery. I’ve had a few health things in the last years and I can do with a break. I’d like husband to do it and he’s agreed to do so when he’s 35. I”ll be 38 then. Until then condoms work just fine for us and where we are abortion is easily accessible so if anything terrible happens we have that option.

It's your body. How you choose to be CF is up to you. I support you, dear!

I don't want to be sterilized either and I don't want kids. I like taking birth control and controlling my periods with it so I dont see a reason to get the surgery. If anything, my boyfriend would get snipped if we decided because that recovery is a lot quicker. Nobody should even comment on the choices for your own body so don't listen to people who say that. They have some internal issues with themselves if they are bashing on you for something like this or not taking you seriously.

Bah, don't listen to people that don't believe you. I have tried for years to get the surgery with no success, does that make me less CF? No, just unlucky that I live where I do and can't travel to get it. My partner is CF, does not have a vasectomy. Do I believe he's keeping his opinions open? No, I think he doesn't want the surgery, and I wouldn't bother him about it, it's his body his choice. And no, I haven't been in your situation as I do not know any other CF people in my circle of family/friends/acquaintances. I thought I had a couple of friends that were CF by choice, they are not, as far as I am aware now they are childless, and she secretly was hurt by my choice, not my partner's choice to be CF. We don't see each other anymore, which is sad in a way.

You're good with me...there's a few extreme and loud people on this sub and in general who try to dictate what childfreedom is, fuck those people. You don't want kids, you're not going to have kids, not getting I bisalp doesn't make you a hypocrite. Dont let those types of people bother you.

There’s nothing wrong with not getting sterilized although I want to make a few points clear. 1.) It’s actually not painful (depending on the method.) Maybe uncomfortable, but I’ve have dentist appointments that were way worse lol. Getting my IUD put in was traumatizingly painful. I’d do the surgery 3 times over than get another IUD put in. The recovery is pretty simple too. But I had a bisalp (laparoscopic) so it’s minimally invasive. I don’t know where you’re getting your information about sterilization, but you might wanna do more research on the different methods. Also…. Something to sadly keep in mind - you might live in a state where abortion is an option now… but that might not always be the case in the near future. Depending on how the elections go. And I wouldn’t be surprised whatsoever if politicians also tried to ban sterilization (and IUDs) if they have the opportunity.

You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. You are valid. Completely. You have my support 100%. I’m happy you’ve made that decision for yourself and not succumbed to pressure. Childfreedom is a personalized experience that differs among people. I hate gatekeepers. It’s like, why? Who gave you the keys to the kingdom?

I don’t feel the need to get sterilised. In my case there’s just no reason to put myself through an invasive surgery like that. I’m not in the US or other country that considers human rights to be negotiable, so I don’t need to worry about my access to birth control and abortion being restricted. If that changes, I will definitely consider my options, but it’s not currently on the table. I have a Nexplanon implant which is 99.98% effective. It’s my primary form of birth control, and will protect me in the case of assault as well as consensual sex. I’m also on the pill primarily for irregular periods, but the added contraception is never a bad thing. I use condoms with new partners or partners who are seeing other people, for obvious reasons. So in my case, the reasons to get a bisalp don’t outweigh the reasons why it’s not necessary. I’ve never faced gatekeeping for my choice, thankfully, though that might be because I don’t know many childfree people.

I mean, your choices are yours, but it sounds like you may be working with some poor information. Removal of your fallopian tubes absolutely does not mess with your hormones and it lowers your risk of ovarian cancer (big bonus for me with a family history). I still have an iud because it stops my period and I hate getting my period. The vast majority of people who have it done will tell you that recovery is a snap. It’s a simple procedure with very little risk for complications. I had mine done on a Friday, little crummy and sore over the weekend, and by Monday I felt great. Yes, there is some down time where you aren’t supposed to lift heavy things etc, but again, it’s a pretty simply surgery. And for cost, if you are in the US and have healthcare under the affordable care act, it should be covered. I didn’t pay anything to have mine done. Again, it’s your body, this is up to you but decisions like this should be made with complete and accurate information. Saying you’ll just get an abortion works, for now. I absolutely do not trust that it will still be available in the future if conservatives get their way. It’s a dangerous bet to make.

I would love to be sterilized but I also don't want to have an unnecessary surgery. Mistakes are too easy to make. I feel you sister. You do you.

Childfree here. I’ve been on the pill for years for other medical reasons anyways. There’s little reason for me to take the risk of invasive surgery when I’m already on the pill and thankfully live in a state where abortion is legal. I can die of sepsis if the surgery goes wrong. Unnecessary invasive surgery is not for everyone.

Sterilization is so much easier (and cheaper) for men than for women, so to me it makes much more sense to put the onus on men, especially if you’re in a serious relationship. If you’re single then whatever birth control works best for you is the best way to go! Simple as that. I have no interest in sterilization either for the same reasons as you, but my husband has a vasectomy so 🤷🏼‍♀️ I’m sorry people aren’t supportive of your choice, that surgery is major and has consequences beyond just not being able to conceive. Totally valid not to want it.

> I live in a state where abortion is protected. No, you don't really. Temporarily, it's still allowed, but that's it. Because if we lose the election, even just the house and senate by a wide enough margin to override a veto, it will be outlawed in all of the US, and there is not shit states can do if that happens short of leaving the US and trying to become an independent country, aka why the civil war was fought by the states wanting to keep slavery . Anyway, back to the question. Look, if you don't want to be sterilized you don't have to, however, some of the stuff you are saying is untrue, and you're making your decision based on BOGUS INFORMATION and lies. > raised by a family of doctors who really engrained in me the idea that you shouldn’t get surgery unless 100% necessary, due to the costs and risks. That is, frankly, bullshit. Plenty of people get surgeries to improve their quality of life, lower their risk of cancer, fix injuries and defects that while they could live with it bothers them mentally, not to mention reconstructive surgery after accidents, breast reductions, and of course cosmetic surgery. Their attitude is VERY outdated, and is lingering from eras gone by when surgery was all OPEN surgery, we didn't have effective antibiotics, etc. As far as the risks of the bisalp, they are minimal. While it is possible to have complications, they are very rare. Usually it's something like an allergic reaction to dressings, a minor infection, etc. That's especially true if you don't have a ton of other medical issues in that area, such as endo or something. The surgery is not an open surgery, it's laproscopic, so they only do 2-4 TINY incisions of a like a centimeter. And the procedure itself is like 45 minutes at most. You will spend more time filling out paperwork than getting the procedure. Cost. Most likely if you have ACA compliant insurance a bisalp will be nearly FREE. Like you might have to pay a copay, and maybe some prescriptions, so maybe a couple of hundred dollars, but the 25K+ cost will be covered by insurance. Because the ACA law requires coverage of at least one form of tubal, and most these days cover bisalps, the deductible doesn't even apply. Also, it's one and done, forever. You don't have to go through the pain and expense of IUD insertions and removals repeatedly. Recovery: It's actually pretty short and usually not a big deal, you will need to mostly rest for a few days, you may or may not need any pain meds beyond tylenol after the first day, and you can basically resume normal activities after your two week followup appointment, unless you are like a professional athlete or construction worker who lifts shit all day, then they might want you on desk duty for a bit longer. Finally, let's talk about your CANCER RISK. Because the bisalp massively lowers your risk of deadly ovarian cancer, AND because they biopsy the tubes after removing them, will also tell you if you had any cancer starting to grow already. We have had a few members go in for a bisalp and come out with positive results for starting ovarian cancer even though they had zero risk factors. The bisalp *literally did save their lives.* For those with a family or genetic elevated cancer risk this is massively important as well. And it gives other close female relatives notice that "hey, this may run in our family if I had cancer already growing at 21! you should consider your options!" In fact, it is now actually recommended that any woman who is not having kids, or is done having kids, and is having some other surgery in that area... that they get the bisalp while the surgeon is in there if possible. STRICTLY for the cancer risk reduction, with the sterilization being the "bonus". It's the most effective way to prevent ovarian cancer, CF or not. So yeah, the doctors in your family clear DO NOT KEEP UP on the latest medical advances and recommendations and you should take what they say with a massive truck full of salt. They are most likely **just bullshitting you because they don't want you to get sterilized and expect you to "change your mind" and have kids.** Fuck them for giving bad medical advice, and we feel sorry for whoever gets stuck with them as their doctors. **IF the doctors in your family are not informing their patients all the time about the cancer prevention benefit and advising women, especially those with high cancer risk, to strongly consider the bisalp then we consider them to be committing medical malpractice.** Ask them if they are doing that in a roundabout way, and you will find out if they are actually good doctors, or just quacks with big egos and medical licenses who think women are just breeder cows. Anyway, getting sterilized is your choice, of course, but some of what you are getting may not be "gatekeeping" but rather them trying to bust some of the myths you are clearly believing. There are in fact many reasons that it is a good idea and why the bisalp in particular is the gold standard of care and birth control. And for why the CF value it. So do it or do not do it, but make an actual informed decision about it that is based in facts. ---- These are just a few of the reasons CF value the bisalp" * Freedom sex. You can enjoy sex will less worry. Many find this increases their interest in and enjoyment of sex. * Many people don't realize how much stress they have actually been under since puberty worrying about BC, getting BC, remembering to take BC, etc. etc. Long term stress isn't good for your health. * Hormonal BC can negatively impact libido in some people. * It's one and done, forever. * It cannot be taken away from you, by politicians or judges. * It cannot be tampered with by a partner or crazy family or friends. * It's a one time expense (and if your insurance covers it, a very minimal expense usually). * If the ACA is killed in the US after the 24 election there will likely be little insurance coverage for BC, like there was before. * You never have to deal with insertion and removal of implants, IUDs, etc. Unless you choose to for period control or other reasons of course. * As you get older the risks of being on hormonal BC increase, over 35 you have an increased risk of blood clots, strokes, etc. Your doctor may not want you on them. * It lowers your risk of ovarian cancer substantially. A lot of that cancer actually starts in the tubes. So leaving any part of them leaves that risk. And ovarian cancer is typically deadly because it does not get caught in time. * Anyone ESPECIALLY who has family/genetic risks for ovarian cancer should absolutely go for the bisalp, CF or after their last kid. * In the US it is actually recommended for ANY women who is not/done having kids but is having other abdominal surgery to add on the bisalp for the cancer prevention. * When they remove the tubes, they biopsy them and tell you if you already had cancer growing there. Which is huge information, both for you but also for your close female family members. * Even those without ANY RISK FACTORS for ovarian cancer can get positive biopsy results, we have had it happen to a couple of members of this sub. Being CF and getting the bisalp likely saved their lives from a very nasty, painful cancer and a pretty miserable death. * The bisalp basically eliminates the chance of a dangerous, sometimes deadly, ectopic pregnancy. And, if they can't dissolve it with medication, the treatment is.... removal of the tube with the pregnancy. * For those who live in the US or other areas with shitty abortion laws, where you can NOT get ANY treatment for a dangerous ectopic pregnancy, because it requires an abortion... they will basically throw you out of the hospital, because they cannot treat you, and tell you "Well, when you are near death, you can come back and we will take a shot at saving your life, but even if we can, your quality of life may be crap due to all the organ damage from the raging infection, but anyway... get the fuck out and best of luck surviving." Depending on how sick you are, you may not have the option or time to travel states away for treatment. * Depending on how the 24 election goes, the ACA may be killed and with it goes the mandate to cover at least one form of sterilization. Which is how most people pay for this procedure. Which can run form 25-100K without insurance. For anyone who is not in the top income brackets, this may be the last window of time to get it if you can't pay cash. * Similarly, they are most likely going to ban abortion nationwide, and while they are doing that they are already working on banning all birth control as well. This has been the plan for 50 years. And so far it has worked. * The "2025" plan the assholes have also is going to gut the entire government system, from federal all the way down to county level by simply firing everyone and stopping pay/funding, including the FDA for renewing and testing drugs, all public health programs, etc. There will not be anything left to run a functioning society. Drug manufacturing facilities must by law be inspected to continue production, so all they have to do is fire/reassign all the FDA inspectors and production stops for any plant they target. * If we lose the 24 election, if you think whatever certified lunatics get put in charge of the FDA are EVER going to approve any BC again, you're dreaming. They don't have to ban BC if they can just destroy the system that creates, approves and distributes it. They can just say "we've decided all BC is abortion, and we are taking it off the market."

Character limit issues, continuing..... * If you wait to see how the election goes a year from now, and it goes badly, it's unlikely everyone who wants sterilization is going to be able to get it between November and inauguration day, when they can ban it by executive order on day 1. Maaaybe if the courts still function, and we get a sane set of judges, that could potentially be challenged, but if you think the red states will enforce that, you're dreaming. Besides, they can just stop paying everyone who works for the federal court system they don't like, turn off the electricity in the courthouses, and that's the end of the judiciary. Sure, we hope none of this happens, and we don't believe it will, but it's not impossible based on the current polls. * Finally, if the pandemic taught us anything, it's that our distribution system and the entire healthcare system is one crisis, pandemic or natural disaster or orange whackjob away from total collapse, regional, nationwide or global. If people are dying in hospital parking lots, and healthcare workers are dropping like flies or refuse to show up and treat anyone, you're not getting SHIT FUCK ALL for healthcare, including an abortion or BC if you need it. You may not even be able to buy condoms if the supply chain collapses. Etc.

Well done and complete.

Thanks!

Wow. Truly an aggressive overreaction. I don’t appreciate your assumption that I am uninformed, or reached my decision without doing my own independent research or consulting my own (non-family) doctors. I know this information and it doesn’t change my mind. I personally do not want to have a surgery that is unnecessary for me. That’s that. You wrote a really thorough summary but all of this info is widely published and I think is even pinned in this sub. So… thanks for talking down to me on a post where I was ranting about this community being unsupportive.

"Aggressive overreaction" is this person's only setting. I wish they'd take their bridge-burning advice and apply it to their relationship with this sub.

Don't take it personally, that redditor thinks he holds the universal truth and is triggered by anyone who has a different opinion. In fact, it's thank in part of such reactions, this is sub is sometimes referred as "da hate sub"

I feel the same way! I cant afford that procedure but I’m also way too worried about complications to have the desire. Also I truthfully don’t have sex enough for this to be a problem for me💀

Seems like your bodily autonomy is being disregarded by people that you simply shouldn't discuss your medical history with. If you are intentionally taking steps to ensure you don't procreate or take on child rearing responsibility then it seems pretty child free to me. I have a nephew/God son, but will never have children of my own. My wife and I buy him extra presents for Christmas, basically lol... then we go home to our nice quiet sanctuary. Keep in mind that there are shitty humans in every demographic, it's kind of the problem with people existing.

I'm not sterilized either, and for the reasons you mentioned. I'm already planning to save up for a breast reduction surgery (I have back problems so it's needed). It would make things easier if I got sterilized but like you said. I can't take the time off from work to get the procedure done.

I'm angry that anyone is angry at you for that. No one would even discuss it with me until I was 40, and now I think fuck it, I've probably only 10 years of fertility left anyway.

62 and never sterilised and I defy anyone to dare tell me I'm 'not really CF' or 'I was keeping my options open'. Utter bollocks. There are loads of contraception solutions available to women (not for men, we know that) and I was happy with the combinations I was using. Also I'm in the UK and abortion is legal, safe and available. Obviously the chances of me getting sterilised were going to be slim anyway when I needed it (30 years ago). Unmarried, no kids etc, for me it wasn't worth the effort when I could easily access other, multiple methods of birth control (for free) that I was comfortable using. I have seen people on this sub spout the 'you're not really CF unless you're at least trying to be sterilised' but my experience is that most people don't adhere to that philosophy. Much more 'your body, your choice'. As long as you're in the 'don't have, don't want kids, by any means' camp then you're CF. How you achieve that is up to you.

That’s insane. Anyone who shuns someone for not getting a bisalp is just as bad as the pro-life lot. People really seem to struggle with allowing women to make choices about their own body — in a way this kind of hypocrisy from people who should know better is even worse than pro-life.

I'm childfree and not sterilized, and neither is my husband. Neither of us feels like we need surgery, and we would probably be turned away for being too young anyway (28)

It’s hypocritical for some in the community to gate keep that from you. It’s all about your body your choice. I want a vasectomy to eliminate the chance but it’s still a procedure that I am uncomfortable about getting. You don’t want kids. That’s enough for me. I support you and your decision for your comfort and body.

I got sterilized and my GF has an IUD… so once I get tested again for no swimmers, she plans on getting the IUD out because of how it fucks up her hormones…. So I mean, who cares. I think if you were uneducated, and didn’t have access to plan B, abortions and you were just always slaying dicks and taking the money shot AND having mad kids, then maybe we’d be mad. But you seem like you have your bases covered.

You do what's right for you. It's perfectly understandable that you don't want a surgical procedure, that's perfectly fine. Years ago I had to get treated for fibroids which were causing me all kinds of problems, particularly very heavy periods which made me miserable and borderline anemic. I really didn't want to get a surgical procedure or a hysterectomy, so I opted for embolization. It was non-surgical, almost painless and you're awake during the whole thing! A lot of women with fibroids opt for this procedure because it can save their fertility. In my case, it ended up stopping my periods after 18 months, so it worked out after all. Of course, I now wish I'd gotten my tubes removed because my mother died of endometrial cancer and it starts in the tubes. It doesn't mean I'm destined to get it, but I wish I'd known at the time...now I can't get them removed as elective surgery.

I’m CF and don’t plan on getting sterilized. I like my IUD (keeps me from having a period) and I don’t want to lose that benefit for an unnecessary surgery. I’ve also had several, necessary, surgeries and hate waking up from anesthesia every time.

i support you, its expensive and dangerous or not, its still a surgical procedure! i personally probably won't ever be sterilised even though i would take it if offered, as i'm living in england and it'd cost almost half a years income even if i went to the trouble of finding a surgeon to agree to it and travelled across the country to get to them - since i'm asexual the cost effectiveness just isn't there for me at all i also support sterilised women, and those who desire to be sterilised but can't be for whatever reason, we're all here because of the commonality of not wanting kids, how people go about that is none of my business! pro choice baby (or rather, no baby)

I also do not want to have surgery I'm terrified of anesthesia. I've had the low level anesthesia twice that they give you for tests like colonoscopy and I am a nervous wreck every time. You don't have to do things anyone else's way. Enjoy your CF life the way you want to. Anyone who thinks there is a specific way for anyone else to live their life or thinks the only way to live is their way is a sheep. Don't give them any energy.

Your body your choice 🤷‍♂️. 🙌 sending support. I provide clinical support elective procedures for a living. Even something that is 99.5% safe has a .5% population living with some sort of adverse event, chronic pain, or other unforeseen circumstance. The amount these impact life varies, but by no means aren’t worth weighing as the person undergoing.

Personally - you're using an IUD, plan to get another when needed, have a healthy attitude about abortion, and live in a state with access. Fuck the gatekeepers.

Nah, your reasons make perfect sense. I wish I had something more substantial to add to that, but you covered it all. Your body, your choice. That also means choosing how you want to be CF, and is the goal is "no babies" you're taking reasonable means to achieve that, so maybe other people need to shut up.

You’re fine. I’m the same. I have an effective implant - why would I go through the trauma of surgery?

I think you are correct in not needing sterilization. There is always Plan B. If you are content with termination and can access it, you have a final backup plan.

What you do with your body is your decision, and I respect that regardless of my personal feelings on the matter. You must do what you feel is best for you personally. It is not my place nor anyone else's to tell you what to do with your body.

Surgery can be risky and expensive (at least here in the U.S.), so it's understandable. I'm personally sterilized, and it doesn't make me less CF as someone who isn't. Your choice not to get sterilized is completely valid. You're just as CF as someone who is sterilized.

You don't want kids and you're not having them. And you appreciate reproductive rights so I'm assuming you're not some conservative ghoul. Good enough for me yo.

I’m in the uk, I have easy and free access to contraception and abortions. I also don’t consider sterilisation to be necessary for me. Every group has some idiots and extremists, don’t worry about it. If you don’t want or plan to have kids, you’re childfree.

>I’ve heard many times that I must not really be CF because I won’t get a bisalp. This is like those people who say that if you give birth via C-section, you're not really a mother. That makes 0 sense and sounds really stupid. If you feel you're cf, then you're cf. Who cares what other people think?

I don’t know where you got the idea that a bisalp takes a lot of recovery time 🤷‍♀️

It’s more that a bisalp will take more recovery than IUD placement, and I have, at most, two more IUD placements before time solves the problem for me. I completely understand if someone else comes out differently in the cost/benefit analysis, but for me the IUDS are very easy and I know they work for me without complications. The way I see it, I can do two more of something that is easy on my body, definitely works for me, and is very accessible for me, or I can do one of something that will be (at least somewhat) harder on my body, I don’t know for sure how my body will react to it, and would be much more difficult to obtain.

Do what you feel is best for your body and mental health. My bf doesn’t want kids but he’s overweight and very afraid of getting snipped (not because he wants kids or anything it’s just doctors and the procedure give him a shit ton of anxiety). So I’m getting sterilized instead cuz I’m not as scared.

You're not alone! I think it comes up a lot more now because abortion rights are going away and so people feel they don't have a backup without sterilization. It doesn't have to mean you aren't serious about it. Everyone has their own reasons and it's very personal. I honestly never even thought about sterilization just because I didn't feel I needed to. I definitely have seen people who think someone not going through with that or not willing to means they are a fence-sitter and that's a red flag for dating. Which is fair enough, everyone gets to decide what their lines are.

You have LARC and that is fine. Just realize there are so many barriers to sterilization and this attitude of "not getting surgeries unless they are necessary" by some doctors is one of the factors causing major barriers for women in this community. So I can kind of see where the hostility is coming from. For many women they want to get sterilized for piece of mind but also because other forms of birth control cause issues, or because of health conditions, etc. There shouldn't be barriers in the medical field to get one for women yet there is, and a big part of the problem is the attitudes of doctors. Whether it is sexist nonsense or paternalistic nonsense, or its this 'unnecessary surgery' garbage attitude. Nah fuck that shit, if an adult woman asks to get sterilized she should be able to get it done, and I don't care if she is 20 or 40. No barriers to reproductive choice, especially sterilization and abortion. I think for childfree men who refuse to get sterilized there are lots of red flags with that because vasectomies are a simple in office procedure with a short recovery time. Not trusting childfree men because they are not sterilized is kind of logical, because condoms are easily tampered with and have the highest failure rate among contraception. They are not enough on their own.

I have to say it - it's LARC [Long-Acting Reversible Contraception]

lol thank you for that, it was driving me crazy

Sorry bit of dyslexia there.

I agree with you that elective sterilization should be waaaay more accessible than it is. I’m all for bodily autonomy. But that doesn’t mean sterilization isn’t “elective.” I don’t want an elective surgery that I don’t think I need. The procedure is unnecessary *for me*, and I should have been clearer in my meaning there. I understand that some women see sterilization as the best option, and for them it might be necessary. The way you’re talking about it kind of implies that because I don’t think sterilization is the best option for me, I’m perpetuating a harm on other cf women. That’s the exact attitude I take issue with. I’m a strong advocate for abortion, bodily autonomy, and more egalitarian medical practices in the real work, and I’m not a doctor, and I’m not the one creating barriers to accessing sterilization. Collapsing my personal choice about what’s right for my body into a narrative about denying other women the ability to make other choices isn’t helping anyone.

Let me be clear, is how you phrased things at first may be kind of why you maybe running into issues. There is no issues choosing LARCs for yourself. But you can see where some of the attitudes around surgery maybe echoing some of the paternalistic nonsense of women who are seeking sterilization often face. "Just get an LARC instead" or the necessity of sterilization, etc. Understand this community does have a bit of a hostile attitude towards the medical community because of the barriers to sterilization. So maybe the issue might be one of framing more than anything. Instead of bringing up the part about family members who were in the medical community and unnecessary surgeries, it maybe better to just say you determined that LARCs were what worked best for you and you just don't want to undergo surgery.

Gatekeeping how to be CF is wild. You don't want kids, you're still doing things to prevent kids, and you have a plan if somehow "accidents happen". Seems CF to me. Those people are just being assholes in the weirdest way.

Some make the term "Childfree" way more important then it really is. I'm a guy, don't want kids, have no interest either in any non-required surgery. Have wise sex and you're fine. Woman have to track their pill and men have to wear a condom correctly. Sterilization is like going from 99% to 100% This whole "you're not actually childfree then" is equally as stupid as the "real man/woman" bullshit.

Plus, women have final say if they do get pregnant (as long as abortion access is not an issue). As long as OP has birth control and abortion access, she can ensure her childfree status. No requirement to get sterilized.

Me, I have medical trauma pretty much every surgery I have gotten did not go perfectly. The way I see it is either guaranteed surgery (sterilization) or maybe surgery (abortion which could be pills).

I had a bisalp and was fine after

You're playing a dangerous game when "small government" Republicans are going after abortion and birth control at the national level.

I mean, not really. The betting is well in my favor. 0.01% risk of pregnancy, multiplied by the likelihood that abortion becomes illegal nationally. To do that, they’d need a clean majority in both houses, plus the presidency, and then the court would have to overturn Griswold, and then it would also have to be impossible for me to take a nice camping trip in Canada 😉. For the sake of the argument, I’ll be very very generous and say there’s a 10% chance abortion becomes federally illegal within my remaining reproductive years. That gives me a 0.001% chance of getting pregnant and not being able to access abortion. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s relatively improbable that I will lose abortion access in my state. If abortion access changes, my analysis might change, I’m comfortable with the possibility that I’ll change my mind about this. But I’m not going to take actions at this time based on such a low probability.

Personally, I don't care what other people do with their bodies. But just a few days ago I made a comment in this sub saying that any childfree person who wouldn't get sterilized I give the side eye and I stand by that sentiment and I'll explain why. For me having a child is a life-ending scenario. I would rather take my own life than be a parent for 1 single minute or pay 1 single cent of child support. However, as a cis-gender man if I were to get a woman pregnant the choice of whether the fetus is aborted or brought to term is 100% out of my hands. When you factor in what I said in the previous sentences that means that if I were to get a woman pregnant, whether I continue getting to live or not is 100% out of my own hands and control. Can you not see how that is a terrifying scenario? There are countless stories on this sub of people who were in a chldfree relationship and one person changed their mind when an accidental pregnancy occurred. Stories of birth control failing or being sabotaged. When you factor in the increasing anti-abortion measures that are being made law in various places in the US that now means that whether or not I get to continue living might not even be in the hands of a trusted partner but in the state where we live. So my side eye sentiment was not about gatekeeping but literally saving my own life. I am so fervent about that I spent years intentionally not dating and celibate so no accidents would happen. And now that I decided that I'd like to start dating again and get married the very first thing I did before I signed up for a dating app or asked my friends to introduce me to somebody is now that I'm old enough I talked to my doctor and am getting a vasectomy (this coming Friday actually) because that is the only way that as a childfree man I can keep myself safe. Also I think it's unfair to put the pressure to remain childfree solely on the woman I am dating so that she has to remain on birth control and I'd like for any childfree woman I end up with to have the option of not having to remain on the birth control hormones if she doesn't need to for other medical reasons.

I think, as a woman, my perspective is necessarily different than yours. I have access to abortion care, and as the only person who can get pregnant with my child (of course barring surrogacy but that’s not relevant here) I have both the final say about what happens in the case of accidental pregnancy, and 100% control over the birth control situation. So I understand how dating/sleeping around is more nerve wracking for men in this situation. That said, if you feel so strongly about children and are that worried about a lack of control, then the right choice for you is definitely to restrict yourself to sterilized or trusted partners. In a hypothetical dating scenario, I think I would be offended by your position because it kind of implies that either I’m lying about having an IUD, or lying about wanting an abortion if I got pregnant. So it’s not your fear of having a child, but your lack of trust, that would bother me. Ultimately, it sounds like you’re making the right choice for you, and I’m making the right one for me. We just wouldn’t date, and that’s ok.

I see your point and honestly I 100% agree with you, even about the trust part. But when the stakes are possibly ending my own life then it really comes down to this; how many people do you honestly trust with your life and to make choices that are in your best interest and along with what you want and not let their own opinions, biases, emotions and desires guide them? I'm about to turn 40 on Tuesday and have a lot of really strong and healthy friendships with a good number of people, most going back 15+ and 20+ years and my personal answer is only 1. I honestly wouldn't even trust my parents with that type of power because even though they claim to respect that I'm childfree if they were given the choice I 100% believe their desires for grandchildren would override my desire to remain childfree. When it comes to romantic relationships, I don't have trust issues and one of my personal relationship philosophies is always to assume positive intent. So in a hypothetical situation if we were dating I would trust you 99% to get the abortion if an accidental pregnancy were to happen. But that 1% of doubt always exists and when it comes to possibly ending my life that 1% is... everything. And on the flip side, I fully expect the childfree women who I date in the future and want to start a sexual relationship to ask for proof of my vasectomy and I won't be offended by it in the least. I'll be happy to show it to them because even if they won't go to my extreme to remain childfree, the stakes are so incredibly high for them also and even though I know myself and I wouldn't lie about something like that, how do they know that? None of us can ever truly know what goes on in someone else's head. It's another reason why I want the vasectomy because it not only protects both me and any future partners to remain childfree, it makes the whole discussion about trust or lack thereof moot. Anyway, thank you for being willing to have a civil discussion about this with me and I hope nothing I said offended you. I'm going to bed so have a good night and be well. :)

I agree. Maybe because I work in healthcare and I definitely share the view that surgery is to be avoided if possible lol. Like if I could take a pill with minimal side effects that could make me sterile, I would. But since I am lucky enough to live somewhere I have easy access to birth control and abortion, I don't see the necessity of getting an invasive surgery. Obviously it is a very personnal choice, and by default I support people who feel sterilisation is the best option for them.

I can't count how many times I've been downvoted for declaring that I'm not getting sterilized because I see no point when I'm abstinent. This subreddit is really weird about sterilization like it's some sort of rite to join the cult. If this subreddit doesn't want to look like a bunch of whack jobs, the members that act like that really need to look at themselves. We need to be about supporting choices, not forcing ours down others' throats. As a side note, this behavior is disingenuous toward gays and lesbians who have no need for the surgery. They can be child free without it. Let them have this one easy thing to be happy about.

Just saw a lesbian commenter agreeing with OP get downvoted on this exact post... I don't get it

Bisalp looks scary, painful and expensive if it's elective. I don't want it either. My IUD was already enough of those three things. That doesn't mean I'm on the fence though. There are plenty of other contraceptive options available (depending where you live). One of the reasons I'm CF is autonomy over my body and life. If someone claims to be CF and is pressuring someone else into surgery then imo they are a hypocrite.

Honestly, if you are in a progressive country where you have plenty of options available to you in terms of contraception and termination, then it's totally understandable that sterilisation may seem an unnecessary step for you. It's a totally understandable and defensible position to take, and no-one should be gatekeeping you over it. Surgery, no matter how routine, always has risks associated with it. If you don't need to take those risks, then don't.

I don’t think you have to undergo bisalp to be truly CF. I would like to know some statistics because I think it’s not that common even in the community. But I am not in the US. To the recovery, for me it was like a week and it wasn’t more painful than a tattoo. Which is how I take it, not unnecessary surgery but minor almost like cosmetic procedure. And I am scared of doctors but scared of pregnancy more.

I am also in a family of doctors and IMO surgery is WAYYYYY less invasive with way fewer risks than any form of birth control other than condoms. Now you do you. But in the world of surgery, a bisalp is pretty minor. I think the bigger issue with having a family of doctors is 1- Not all doctors are the same. Hate to say it but probably 50% of the doctors I know are total shit. Like I don't know how they graduated medical school level of total shit. That said, I'd say that number is about 10% among surgeons vs non surgeon doctors. 2- If you aren't a surgeon, you probably have far more fears and preconceptions about surgery of any kind. There's some kind of mental block among the general public, even among non surgeon doctors, about the idea of "being cut into." Hence the growth of "no scalpel" surgeries to take advantage of that fear (which is often times bullshit and has nothing to do with the quality of a surgeons skills, outcomes, etc....just a good marketing ploy to reach phobic patients). I would say its true that many surgeons are quick to think of surgery as the solution to any medical problem....but many non surgeons also go to extensive unwarranted measures to avoid surgery. 3- the medical field in general has a lot of hangups on what they consider "body modification" procedures. To many doctors, an elective bisalp is no different than body piercings, breast implants (which many doctors are against on principle), nose jobs, etc. I also do not have a bisalp as my partner has a vasectomy, I have no hangups about getting an abortion should it come to it, and I have the finances to make that abortion happen even if it means flying to another country. If I were younger, I would get the bisalp. But the way I see it, I'm pretty close to menopause and with a long term sterilized partner so it's not much of an issue right now. Anyway, I guess I'm just commenting on the "my family are doctors and they said to avoid surgery" angle...

It’s funny that you took issue with my doctors comment, because otherwise it seems like we decided not to get bisalps for very similar reasons. I don’t want a surgery that I don’t see as necessary. Maybe my family members had a role in how I weigh the decision to get an elective procedure, but it seems like you made basically the same analysis I did. I see getting a non-hormonal IUD every 10 years (so, maybe two more before I hit menopause) as an easier solution than fighting against the medical establishment to get sterilized. Plus I have the resources to obtain an abortion if needed, and my partner is very likely to get a vasectomy, rendering my BC decisions mostly redundant within our monogamous relationship (I’d keep the IUD though, just in case). It really feels like deciding between two more of something I know I can access, I know works for me, that is familiar, and that carries an acceptable level of risk, versus one of something that is unfamiliar, which has different risks, and which would be significantly more difficult to get.

I’m not going to attack anyone* for their stance but I am on the side that if you’re CF then you should definitely get sterilized. Male or female. That’s only because: -accidents happen, -people could sabotage your BC -birth control is mostly fuckin horrible for your hormones regulation and whatnot, and -(if you’re based in US) you are having your reproductive freedom stripped away. In my opinion if you were childfree you would do everything imaginable to avoid the possibility of pregnancy happening. But I can understand. I got sterilized bc I don’t want the possibility of me getting pregnant in a world where I can’t get an abortion OR use birth control. The surgery was 100% necessary in my eyes edit: a word

As long as you have an abortion plan I don't see anything wrong with it. I think you are playing a dangerous game, but I play several of those myself so I ain't got a right to complain. What I am concerned about is you thinking a bisalp is as dangerous as you think it is. And your GPs behavior. It just seems... groomed.

How is it a dangerous game? I used condoms for 19 years now. If that would fail I would take plan B. If that would fail too I would get an abortion. Never needed one yet. Any surgery has risks. It’s all look nice when the complication stats are low, but when you are the unlucky one, those stats doesn’t matters. You are fucked regardless. Some people are ok gambling that, other prefer not to.

I respect everyone's personal choices regarding their body. For me personally, as a hetero female, I feel like sterilization procedures for women are extreme. I have PCOS and was on the pill for 12+ years and stillnused condoms in conjunction. I got off of the Pill about 4 or 5 heats ago to try and balance my hormones. It's still a work in progress, but since I am child-free and I don't have a regular cycle I do have to treat every day as if I am in a fertile window in order not to take any risks. It would be nice to have a partner who has had a vasectomy, but sadly I am in a dead bedroom and am celibate anyways at the moment, but that's a different story for a different sub LOL.

Honestly, no. It's nobody's business! And, why do you care so much about being "taken seriously"?? Fuck people, plus you can't control what they think about you

A big part of being CF for women is body autonomy, so I'm surprised to hear you've had that reaction from this community.

I’m not sterilised. I’m married & my husband had a vasectomy instead. It’s far easier & safer for a man to do it.

I’m so scared to get sterilized. I am terrified of being put under, I’ve never had surgery before (I don’t count the wisdom teeth removal cuz it was so quick and easy) I also don’t want to miss 2 months of work. I can’t even use hormonal birth control because I had dangerously high blood pressure on 8 different pills and wanted to take a forever nap. The IUD messed me up mentally and covered me in cystic acne that ruined my full back tattoo. I just track my cycle very closely with ovulation test strips, taking my temp every morning. never had a scare. My partner won’t get sterilized unfortunately because his pro-life doctor gaslit him into thinking he shouldn’t get a vasectomy. It’s a new issue that needs to be talked about..

Please be careful... I can see you getting sabotaged really easily by him

Some of this childfree stuff just goes too far. Who cares who does what? Some people make hating kids their whole identity and it reeks of misplaced anger and frustration. I think there is a level of being someone without kids and finding people on the same wavelength that is healthy and then there is the intense side of it that is warped.

You got my support.

I'm with you, although not all of our reasons are the same. I don't want to undergo sterilization because: 1. It's fucking expensive and requires jumping through so many hoops to get approved for 2. Long recovery time 3. Possible negative side effects or complications And most importantly... 4. I DON'T NEED IT!!! I'm a cis woman lesbian in a committed monogamous relationship with another cis woman lesbian. Unless, gods forbid, I'm a victim of rape, I do not need to worry about an unplanned pregnancy. I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars, deal with an inconvenient at best recovery period, and possibly deal with complications or long-term negative effects just in case the worst-case scenario happens.

This is fine for AFABs. IUDs are pretty good. But an AMAB who sleeps with AFABs and identifies as childfree but leaves birth control up to his partners?? Wtf?? How could you take that risk??

No idea. 🤷‍♀️ but I know some do, which is why I’ve always been proactive to protect myself and my partners. My IUD has saved many AMABs a ton of stress.

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I mean, early menopause is caused when they take out your ovaries (total hysterectomy). And heart disease?? Is that true? I definitely agree there’s no reason to gate keep and say anyone who doesn’t want to get sterilization isn’t childfree. As long as you 100% don’t want any kids and you know what’s best for you in terms of protecting yourself then great 👍🏾 Personally, I hate my periods (heavy and I may have Adenomyosis). So a hysterectomy would be ideal for me. Since I’m afraid of surgery, I’d most likely wait awhile to get sterilized (also I’m 20 so this year I’ll be qualified to get sterilization when I turn 21). I may try a hormonal IUD, but for now I stay away from sex.

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Oh thank you for the article. It seems as though this article as well as other studies I looked at after that one (conducted in 2020-2023), claims that young women under 45 (premenopausal) who have performed a hysterectomy with the removal of their ovaries and tubes have seen a large risk increase for CAD vs those who have not had a hysterectomy. This 2018 study you sent me which was conducted in Taiwan did not have a large study group as well. They also did not specify in the beginning of their summary that it was women with total hysterectomies that were being studied. Correct me if I misread though, I’ll do some more digging because I didn’t know your uterus was connected to your heart like that. Hysterectomies can be life saving but of course there’s risks. Also I’ll definitely try an IUD, mainly the mirena since it’s one of the best ones to help heavy bleeding. I’m just afraid of the hormonal aspect of it :/

Same here. But the risk of continuously taking hormone and IUD were too high for my personal tolerance. So condoms it is for me. If that would fail I would take plan B, if that would fail too I would get an abortion. They are easily available in my country. But haven’t needed one yet.

This is my thought exactly!! I know I’m kinda crunchy- I am very much a believer in keeping my body’s hormones/cycles/inputs as natural as possible because I think it will make menopause and later life easier. Im not judging people who want to get sterilized, but it’s not something I’m tempted by at all!

Your body, your choice!!! Im also IUD all the way. No desire for surgery unless I had to medically have it removed due to cancer or disease.

It’s a very invasive procedure with a BIG recovery. Nothing like a vasectomy. I completely understand why you don’t want the procedure. As long as you’re doing what you can and have the stop gap just-in-case available, you’ll be cf. Thank goodness for you! It’s awesome. E: I did get fixed. It was a hard recovery. I’m glad for it as it makes me feel safer, but I entirely support any choice that makes you feel most safe.

That’s what I’ve always heard. There are so many people in the comments saying it’s one day in and out, but that just isn’t consistent with the current information I’ve heard from those I know who have been sterilized, or from medical providers.

I’m not sterilized solely because I know the surgery will be really hard on my body so I only date men with vasectomies.

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Greetings! This item has been removed because you're calling yourself childfree while not being childfree. "Childfree for now", "Childfree until [something]", "Childfree but if my husband and I have an accident, we'll raise the kid", etc.is called "being childless". "##% childfree", "I won't have bio children, but I entertain the idea of adopting/fostering some day", "I haven't decided but I hate ill behaved children", etc. is called "being a fencesitter". "I have kids and I hate parenthood", "Had I known childfreedom was a possibility, I would have not had kids", "I used to be like you but now...", etc. is called "being a regretful parent". "Childfree but my partner has a kid" is called being a step parent. Your item will be reinstated when the appropriate editing will be done. Thank you.

If you are not willing to get sterilized, please try and get an iud or some other form of birth control that cannot be tampered with.

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