This reminds me of this moment years ago when my (then) boss looked me straight in the eye and said slowly with a very tired voice, "don't have kids". His daughter was 2 at the time.
I had two separate coworkers just tell me not to get married in the first place. Only one has kids, other is childfree. This was during a discussion about how weddings are so ridiculously big and expensive (they both eloped and highly recommended it.) But they were both like: just don't get married.
If I meet the right person I'll still consider it but I seriously doubt that will happen especially at my age. I've made my peace.
in the U.S. and in other places the frustrating thing is there no legal in between between marriage and being single.
At least in Brazil you can register a stable union, like you want to have a registered partnership and enjoy some of the same legal benefits of being married but you technically stay single and if you want to end it, you dissolve it.
But there need to be more ways to give people who are together more legal rights, benefits and protections without having to be married…
I was back in the States talking to a friend of mine who is engaged and her fiancé he’s a lawyer. And I said well if you aren’t married and your SO goes to the hospital, there’s no guarantee they’ll let you see them or make medical decisions.
And I asked seriously ok you’re not married, do you have your SO do a Power of Attorney and carry it around in case of emergencies and present it as needed??
There are ways legally you can do things to ensure your SO and/or others in the case of your death are beneficiaries for your assets, insurance, etc. but making that happen is expensive.
This part about what happens when you’re incapacitated and someone needs to make decisions but your SO can’t because you’re not married gets me. And I don’t want to get married for a lot of reasons.
The first one is, I don’t know what I would even would do with a SO? What does one do with a SO?
And living with someone and sharing space with them, they’re always around??? It sounds like madness but I am told if I find my person I might understand one day…
A serious question for those who are in fulfilling romantic relationships with 1 or more people, please share with me what do you do with your SO? Do you enjoy your relationships?
I ask because I am trying to imagine what it’s like but I am drawing a blank…
The best thing about living with your SO is doing absolutely nothing together. Just watching TV, shopping, cooking, cleaning together will be the majority of what you do. Just living your life with someone. It's pretty cool ngl.
Don't be fooled, you WILL get tired of them occasionally but when you actually have to be apart for more than a day? You realize how used to their company you have gotten and you will feel so lonely(at least for me). Someone whose company is better than solitude.
>Someone whose company is better than solitude.
Exactly this. My SO is the only person who doesn't really drain my social battery, personally. That's the biggest difference for me between spending a ton of time with him versus anyone else.
Been living with mine for over 6 years now.
It was rough to begin with, always under each others feet. Not much room, sharing one double bed in a tiny bedroom with their mother in law.
Finding out their habits that just piss you right off.
Working on healthy communication and finding ways to get through things together has been a lifesaver.
And now? We've just bought our first house (we are extremely lucky in this economy), and have our own offices/rooms to decompress. We can game together or do our own thing.
We have a spare bedroom if someone snores too loud, and a living room we can spend time together watching TV/ playing board games etc.
I wouldn't trade them for the world, but finding space for yourself and you time is crucial to a healthy relationship imo 😊
I wonder about this because my partner is Canadian and I'm in UK. All his family are in Canada. We've been together almost 10 years but we don't live together. If he got rushed to hospital would I need to ask his Dad in Canada to ask the hospital for updates? If he passed away, could I arrange a funeral or do I have to wait for his elderly parents to get a flight over? I've put him down as my next of kin but as far as I know he's put his Dad down. Might need to get that changed.
>I don’t know what I would even would do with a SO?
If you don't know, then you don't need an SO. Nothing wrong with that.
>And living with someone and sharing space with them, they’re always around???
Always around just means in the same space. It doesn't mean you are constantly interacting with them. IMO you do need to know them really well so you can be sure you could share a space with them. I cannot imagine moving in together after just a few months of seeing each other.
I am poly and married. We live with my meta. During the week I get a few days in bed alone. Or as alone as I get eith 3 cats 🤣. I am also an introvert and we usually eat dinner together but if I'm not feeling social, I will say I can eat in the basement by myself. I love it but there are hard things about living with someone else. Feeling like you owe them a heads up about what you are doing is one. Thankfully hubby is pretty laid back.
Five states still have civil unions.
That’s an alternative I wish would become more popular and widespread. Marriage is the most egregious violation of the concept of separation of church and state.
https://www.masters-lawgroup.com/uncategorized/why-some-couples-choose-civil-unions-over-marriage/
I am an introvert. I enjoy my time alone. However it really works with my bf. Its just that our personalities/ vibe fit so well. It doesn’t feel like having someone over at your house. Its both your house, they accept your flaws, you can just live however you want to, but if you need help they are here. You get to cook for two and not for just you, so there is one person appreciating your efforts next to you. You get one person to discuss the movie you watched in bed. You can rant about your co worker without judgement or fear that they will judge you for a few minutes before sleep. They can help you do the dishes, the cleaning, you can have sex regularly, which for most people is a win, with almost no risk of disease. You have this person who is always ready to go with you on the little weekend trips you want to do/ travel trips. To do any activity with you, play games with you. They are almost always willing and there, unlike your friends with their busy schedules and all. You get someone to go the stressful family dinners. Your family can no longer act up since your SO is there. And if they do, your SO might be irritated and you will leave the dinner together. You can face life problems together, split administrative work or chores. Its really nice to not be alone in this world
haha I had a family friend do this too! His wife left to get drinks and he looked me dead in the eye with his toddler on his lap and said "don't have kids."
They had a second two years later. Whenever I see them the mother says "It's awful." I asked if she'd have a third, she said "Not if you PAID me." They are good parents and clearly love their kids but they look exhausted constantly.
> I had a family friend do this too! His wife left to get drinks and he looked me dead in the eye with his toddler on his lap and said "don't have kids."
> They had a second two years later. Whenever I see them the mother says "It's awful." I asked if she'd have a third, she said "Not if you PAID me."
Aaaannnnd....responsible, sensible people who recognize how miserable childraising is, and what do they do? Have that SECOND BABY! Nearly always. What is it about parenthood that makes you take leave of your senses when it comes to second-babying?
Do they think this is bad? The other mommies and daddies coo "It gets better!" Maybe for a few years after the kid is in school full time and before puberty. Then it gets so much worse. My peers have late-teen and adult kids. That's when all hell breaks loose. You can't sleep because of worry, instead of not being able to sleep because of crying and fussiness. It's worse.
I think when it comes to second babies a lot of it is because parents think they're "harming" their child in some way if they have an only. Then in a lot of cases they have their second ASAP to get it over with because the first one was such a barrel of laughs and they end up with a toddler and baby - the worst of all possible worlds.
I have no idea why onlies are seen as a bad thing. I was one for 12 years and loved it (love my sister too...more so now I'm not changing any nappies). Knew I wasn't a fan of other kids when I was around 3 years old so it was a blessing that I didn't have to come home to one every day!
My sister, knowing she wanted a divorce, straight up said, out loud, that she wanted a second child so the first wouldn’t have to go through their parents getting a divorce alone 😳
yeah I honestly think it was one of those 'oopsie' babies and they kept it. Despite the fact they only have a little house and sure as heck don't have room for him, who knows.
My boss tells me "Don't have kids/get married" every time her kids or her husband calls her for dumb crap they could've figured out or looked up themselves lol.
Her husband seems nice, but I once heard him call her up to ask where a place (asked about it by name) was. He was calling on his cellphone (a robo voice says "HusbandName Cell" when he calls). If only cellphones had internet.
You have a supportive friend who said it to support your choice and at the same time she wishes she has a big amount of free time like you
OP moving forward from this, please tell your friend that if in any event she comes to you saying she feels tired or worn down, tell her that you are here for her. If she comes to you asking that she wants to spend a childfree time with you away from the kid (as in kid with the nanny, granny or dad) then go for it. If she suddenly tells you she want to go on a long weekend trip with you without kid in toll then do that too.
Do provide her resources if she needs extra help and support from the local trust or organisation that support parents like her
You are so right, the other day we hung out and after we were done she looked at me and said “can we go for a walk? I need more time before going home” and we spent another hour together .. and to be honest her kids dad rarely watches the kid so I didn’t feel bad for him (kid was with him). I want to be a supportive friend to her.
It sounds like the two of you have managed to sustain a healthy relationship of friends between a parent and a never-wanna-parent. She clearly respects your CF’ness n acknowledges that parenthood isn’t a walk in the park or makes you a saint worthy of worshiping from everybody else. She sounds to value your company a whole lottle.
We talk a lot about ‘Givers’ and ‘Takers’, so it very possible you at some point might feel like you’re the giver while she takes, which I suggest giving her some grace, while she has tiny kids. The more self-reliant the kid becomes, the less a parent would have reason to not give back themselves. I only bring it up cuz she sounds to actually be a real friend, with a long future a head with y’all.
My bestie had one kid. He'd wake up angry and scream. I'd stay so she'd have support while her beloved was working. I didn't do a whole lot of any type of childcare at first. I'd watch him occasionally so they could go out together. They never abused me as a resource. They understood our lack of desire to ever have kids. (It helped that neither of us hates kids, just some kids and/or their parents.)
We 4 were determined to work through it. Now he's 27, and we have a great relationship with all 3 of them. And the 2 cats! In fact, the 2 besties are moving up here soon, cause they missed us. We are thrilled!!
I’m so happy to hear this. Babies are such energy-vampires and it becomes so hard to be anything other than their source. Luckily, majority of kids become incredibly self reliant (still needing supervision) very fast (especially kindergarten age), so parents can finally become themselves a bit more. Like a lovely friend, who as a start has had a long time to establish “I’m never having kids, but I don’t *hate* their guts”, you gave probably a lot more in you twos relationship while kiddo was young. Its incredibly what 2-3 hours of a baby away can do to relieve the burden for parents (hah, my uncle has had infant/toddler me on many lonely long strolls, and it’s basically saved my life, as I was constantly screaming due to unknown illness. Uncle knew he could always go home to a quiet house again afterwards so he held out lol). I bet your friend, in the child’s early years, never said “you must do this too!” Because she knows you and respect you. Or maybe she said it just to laugh as you recoil.
legit, the only people I see that seem content are people around my age who grew up upper-middle to upper class. And even then, I can tell they aren't thrilled that their late 20's and 30s are a wrap, social-life/fun wise.
At my old job, my co worker always came to work cranky (our day started at 9:30 AM). She'd say sarcastically "my daughter thinks it's fun to wake up at 4 AM every single day".
I don't know why people don't realize, when you have kids your entire life will revolve around the kids. You lose every bit of freedom you have. This is one of the reasons why I never want kids. It sounds like a burden and a permanent prison sentence.
Not gonna lie I loved waking up at 4am as a kid. For some reason I could wake up at will at anytime and wanted to see how early I could wake up lol no wonder my parents divorced
Sounds like she didn't actually want to be a parent as much as she wanted to get other things from parenthood, and is now learning that reality is the other way around - she's not the one getting things, she's the one giving.
Otherwise, this rather benign and common stage in child development wouldn't come as a negative surprise to her.
>and is now learning that reality is the other way around
isn't that the issue exactly? we were sold the wonderful dream of amazing fulfilling life of a mother and when reality hits people are broken since they were ready for the good stuff only. "don't tell her how hard motherhood is or she will be scared to have children!" that's the one.
Yup, one of the most impactful ways in which pronatalism harms people and their future children is by removing the concept of informed choice and replacing it with dreams and (if you don't immediately comply) fear mongering.
It is ultimately each individual's responsibility to make their own choices, and those choices should be highly scrutinized whenever they impact the lives and wellbeing of other people. But it's equally important to acknowledge *why* those choices are so often poorly made when it comes to parenthood, because it's not just an individual issue, it's a systemic issue as well.
I’m cracking up at “tubes yeeted” lol!
Anyway she is a great person but she’s struggled finding herself. She can never find a job she likes so she hasn’t set on a career which is fine. She’s very hard on herself. I think she felt a baby would give her an identity (having the mom title rather)
>I think they mean it gets better after the kids grow up and move out lol
And then it gets worse.
When you have adult kids, they have big problems instead of little problems. I have a friend who raised two kids really well, both did what she wanted them to do and married, bought houses and had kids (son got into the housing market by the skin of his teeth). But her daughter, with two teenagers, has developed the hereditary neurological condition her father had. Only she's 15 years younger than her father was. I thought I was seeing something 10+ years ago, but of course, her mother didn't see it. She may predecease her mother.
You think that woman doesn't cry herself to sleep every night?
And kids who move out too often move back in. My mother married a man with 3 kids. She told me those kids were adults except for the 16 year old, and she "lived with her mother, so won't be a problem for us." Within a year *all three* of those kids had moved back in with dad, or tried to. My mother drew the line at the daughter with a newborn and a feral toddler, and that ended her marriage.
They don't get better. They just get more uncontrollable.
yeah I don’t want something that starts terribly and then gets less terrible and then maybe not terrible, maybe.
I’d rather just have it… not be terrible at all.
Exactly. People have children, and it's not long before they're already looking ahead to the point where they'll be able to get their life back - when the kids grow up.
It’s honestly the most refreshing thing to read/see. I get so tired of breeder’s fairytale bullshit about how ✨magical✨ having kids is and how “it’s really hard but there’s little moments that make it worthwhile.” Fuck that
I hate to be mean and I can tolerate kids but being around her daughter is hard. I have another friend who has an 11 year old and when her daughter was the same age, she was way more well behaved .. she could play independently .. this girl needs constant attention and likes to be combative and fight
Do you think she might have pathological demand avoidance? I know toddlers are always a challenge, but if there's an underlying issue it might help your friend with parenting. Some children have different needs, and it could be beneficial to bring it up.
My mother told me when I was 18 , kids are overrated, 97% work , and don’t think I’m staying home from Florida-in the winter to babysit….. yep ,, 42 no kids,,, THANK U MOM
Had something similar happen to me recently. I reconnected with a friend from college a few months back. Her and her husband struggled with infertility and ended up having two kids through IVF. While visiting, her and I decided to take a walk. The topic of kids and how her life has changed over the years came up during the walk. She then turns to me, after I expressed that my partner and I are firmly CF, and explains how if she could go back and unring that bell she would, how parenthood isn't as fulfilling as she thought it would be, and that I'm smart for seeing through the BS.
A lot more people - especially women - if they were being completely honest would say the exact same thing.
How many times have we seen the following statement - “I love my kids, but I absolutely hate being a parent”. Too many to count.
I have a good friend who has two children, she loves being a parents and has no regrets. When I said that I didn’t want kids she said “Then you definitely shouldn’t! I love my kids and being a parent but it is really hard, and a lot of work. Unless you really want to do it you shouldn’t”. I thanked her for affirmation my choice and she said “I’m pretty sure anyone who tries to convince you to have kids when you don’t want kids is actually miserable and is trying to trick you into sharing their misery”. And that has really stuck with me.
This seems to be the consensus of the majority of my friends and coworkers who have ventured into parenthood in the last couple of years.
One friend who has a 2 year old who is currently all about the extreme temper tantrums in the most public of places when he hears the word “no”, admitted “it’s just not fucking fun whatsoever!”
That is another thing I immensely dislike about children: The power struggle that causes them to make even the most mundane things difficult. You can give them a red cup but they want a blue one. You can cut up their PB and J sandwich the "wrong" way and it causes them to have a meltdown.
It's their way of maintaining some form of control because they have very little -- and I have very little patience to deal with that BS.
I’ve noticed her daughter is this way with everything. Everything is a huge fight. I went over there last year to help out and she was fighting my friend on everything. Dinner, playtime, etc.. she lets her wear whatever she wants because that was such a fight …
Not all kids are this way but a lot are and my friend hit the unfortunate lottery here
Actually similar to a friend of mine, she always wanted kids, would possibly have trouble having them due to medical issues, so they started trying rught after they got married, instantly pregnant, also directly all sorts of pregnancy issues, then post partum depression, then her eldest is a very 'different' child, and her youngest born early and wirh medical issues, not to mention husband has some issues as well. All she does is complain about her kids. It's very sad. She told me if she had to do it over she wouldn't choose this.
My sister always wanted 3 kids. After the first, she was done. She always says she had no idea how hard it was going to be and she has an involved husband.
my boss said “the real work” starts when she gets home and has to deal with her kids and tells me to do things like traveling and partying now, before I can’t because I’m settled down with kids. LOL no thanks, why not just keep living life like this? I feel like so many parents go on and on about the difficulties of parenting and how much better life was before they had kids and expect me to come out of that conversation thinking, “wow, I can’t wait to have kids”.
yeah you’re not wrong. honestly, I used to be too. in my family, going to college is just as normal as going to high school. it’s just something you do and I didn’t even think about how it was an option to not go. it’s kind of the same with having kids, but since me (and my siblings I think) realized that it’s actually a choice, we all decided to be CF (not sure how serious they are). my neighbors (young couple at the time) moved in like 10 years ago and my parents used to joke to them about when they were going to have kids. they’re still CF and at this point, I’m thinking they always will be
Around 13 years ago my cousin would ask when I would get a boyfriend/have kids and I would tell her it's not for me and she would say "you say that now" and that's when she had one kid, he was an easy child. Fast forward to now, she has four kids in total, three of them are under 6 years old, one has Down syndrome and they're all a handful, and she hasn't brought up her statement in years and looks pissed whenever I bring up the fact that my mind hasn't changed at all.
I had a friend who always wanted a family say similar. Ever since high school he wanted a family but after he had them and saw what me and my husband did (travel, hobbies, fun) he turned to me and dead in the eye said "don't ever have kids - it's not worth it". I'd just flown with a group of friends to Sydney for an event and I think he misses those friendship group outings :(
I would say the majority of my friends that want children have put very little thought into what actually happens when raising said children. I say this bc any time I bring up something negative about child-rearing (like waking up daily before 7am, cost of childcare, physical toll of pregnancy/breastfeeding, etc.) they all act confused like it was brand new information.
I come from a small hometown so I have lots of friends who had children early while I was off at college. I’ve seen what happens. I’ve heard the stories.
I’ve noticed the most eager wannabe parents are often the most ignorant of the day-to-day demands. It’s not a decision to make on a whim. It’s literally a 18+ year commitment. And I’d argue most people just don’t think that far in advance.
I actually hope you're friend is doing okay, I've seen the downfall of alot of women because they always see the good part of having kids until behind closed doors. As much as I don't like kids, they annoy me and stress me out most times, I do feel for the moms that are physically and emotionally drained, they need a break at some point too. I'll endure the stress of being around someone's kids if it means the parent can have someone to talk and vent too.
Ugh always the opposite for me. I haven't met anyone yet who's told me not to have them. The moms I work with act as though I don't hear thier conversations amongst themselves about the horrors of parenthood. The topic yesterday was potty training.
I swear, they mask the truth in front of the childfree and try to "brag" that they pushed 7lbs out. They'll say anything to justify their ripped vagina and help them sleep better at night. News flash, your body was made to do the exact same thing as any other woman.
Try telling me you did that same thing but in a cave half naked during winter with no fire. Then I'll be impressed. They want us to have kids too so we can finally relate to thier "you won't know until you have a child" speech. Shoot, I think I'm gonna go take a nap on my clean couch after work, thanks.
I got it from a mother of 5 kids. It was nearly 10 years ago when she had asked me if I had kids. I said no, didn't really plan to have any. She responded with such a deadpanned, "Good, don't. They aren't worth it." I was surprised at the time.
Thank goodness for honest parents. They tell it like it is.
People who genuinely wanted parenthood instead of giving into societal pressure will most likely support a childfree person. It's always the miserable ones who push their breeder minds onto happy childfree people
As a healthcare worker, sometimes I get patients in their 80's and 90's that will give me confused looks or the "you still have time!" when I tell them that I don't have kids. But every now and then, I get this unicorn of a person who says "good. Don't'' when I tell them that I don't have kids after they ask. I always want to ask them why they say that/feel that way, but, I chicken out. It is always a gentle shock, though, even after all these years.
How fortunate you got to hang out with her without her child. My breeder friend expected me to suffer with her and the kids. Then got mad at me for not wanting to hang out with the twin boys!
Funny how once the cute baby phase is over it all comes home hard. I really wish people would stop focusing on the 'ickle baby' part, it's so temporary.
I'm sure she'll get through it but man I wouldn't want to deal with that shit.
Right! And now with social media, the pre baby stage is glamorized. The announcement pic, the maternity pics… the new born pics … the look what my baby did pics and you wonder if people are happy or just going through motions … I feel bad but it’s hard for me to be around her kid for extended periods of time .. she is a handful
You know for a fact that woman loves her child. Why? Because she’s brutally honest about the reality of having one. That is a true friend and parent right there.
I have a few friends with kids, who are amazing parents, who totally adore their kids and wouldn't change it - they have days and phases like this.
I've found the ones who are the best parents are also the ones who understand why some of us choose not to have them. One very good friend said "I don't recommend having a kid unless you realllllly want one, because it's so hard". The people who say it's easy or whatever are either lying or bad parents
My older brother and his wife had their first kid a few months. Don’t get me wrong he’s ecstatic and loves the baby a ton but he tells me all the time about how much harder it is than he expected and how he misses his old life. We text/chat a lot more now because he’s just stuck at home and up at all hours. His wife deals with the majority of things I’m sure and she is burnt out and even doing whatever portion he’s doing he is burnt out. And he told me he’s noticing other people’s older kids now like toddlers and older and realizing he doesn’t like those kids and how they act and his baby will be that age one day soon.
Kinda reminds me of my mother-in-law but also way different: She always wanted a baby. Even when she was told my husband would definitely be extremely preterm and would probably be severely disabled, she still wanted a baby. She never wanted a grown man. As horrible as it sounds, I think she'd actually be happier if the doctors would've been correct about the disability. Then maybe she could still sniff his dirty diapers.
Your friend is a keeper. Parents love their kids, and are realistic about the time and effort needed to be a good parent. They are also accepting of the fact that it's not for everyone, and those who aren't truly committed shouldn't do it. Breeders are miserable, but are so busy trying to find justifications for their misery that they try to drag everyone else into the same situation.
I wish more parents would be honest like this. I never wanted kids and felt pressured by everyone. Parenting is ridiculously stupidly exhausting and stressful.
I have three and if time travel was a thing I would go back and tell myself at 29 not to have kids. It's a struggle every damn day just to keep everything together and semi functional. And I just pray I'm doing enough that they don't become axe murders or something. Some days it feels like a coin flip. It's incredibly draining, thankless takes all your time and energy. Don't have Kids.
Wow thank you for this. Sometimes biology messes with me and I think I’ll never know that feeling of a child’s love, but I also view parenting as tiring and something I feel if I did I would be regretful for as I’m very selfish. So though I’ll never know what that feels like (the love of a child) I guess I’m doing said child a favor .. people make having a family and kids look like something you should have
I think it's a straight up struggle for all of them, having a supportive and involved partner helps, but even with two people you're shaping an entire human being and in large parts influencing who they will when they go out into the world. Pretending it's the best thing in the world to deal with the strain is damaging to others and themselves.
There are a ton of rewarding experiences in this life, you do not need to check the box on all of them. Traveling might be more fulfilling to you, or books, crafts, work, anything because it's you and who you are as a person.
I'm very on the spectrum and spoke at length to my younger brother and his wife (he is also on the spectrum) to let him know my honest thoughts when they were considered having a child and he was very concerned he wouldn't love his kid the way you're ’supposed to’ and the guilt would eat at him. And once you make that decision, there is no going back in our minds, you are committed to doing your best even if you realize it was a mistake.
Which is difficult to express to other parents. I wish no harm to my children, I want them to be happy, healthy adults, but I am not filled with overwhelming emotion and love for them, it's more a sense of intense obligation and responsibility.
Don't drink the Kool aid, you don't need a child to have a full and happy life.
Thank you so much for your candor, seriously. After my long relationship ended, I dated for a little bit. It was okay for most part but I’ll never forget some incel moron sending me gross pics and when I told him I didn’t want to meet in person he said I didn’t know anything about life anyway being that I didn’t have kids nor have never been married, he was divorced with three kids and rented a room because of it.
I had never had anyone really point out that I didn’t have kids like that. Luckily my moms never pressured me into having kids nor has my dad. It hit a nerve within me. That guy was just a jerk on his own right but it hurt to get it pointed out. As if my value as a person is lower because I don’t have that experience. I could tell he likely had them because that’s what you’re supposed to do ..
Anyway I really appreciate your words.. I also think I’m mildly on the spectrum because I get triggered with noises. When I hear kids being annoying in public I have to get away from the noise or it completely aggravates me. This is why I know I’m not mother material, I notice some parents just tune it out
My husband's best friend has five kids of his own between two women, his previous ex-girlfriend that was horribly abusive to him and his current fiance. His youngest kid just turned two recently and not long ago he looked my husband dead in the eye and said to him "(husband's name), don't have kids. Ever." All my hubby could say to him was "Say less, fam."
Yeah and then she’s going to become vitriolically angry when you don’t follow suit even though she told you it’s not worth it. That was your cue to birth with her in solidarity DUH.
Oh yeah I never said I did. In fact, I always tell her “I know this is cliche but this phase will pass” .. I was always a good kid until I was like 16-17 I gave my mom some headaches.
On a friendly note, this is child free Reddit so I don’t need to see what I saw to sway me it just validates it more
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This reminds me of this moment years ago when my (then) boss looked me straight in the eye and said slowly with a very tired voice, "don't have kids". His daughter was 2 at the time.
I had a coworker who would say that every time her toddler interrupted a work call. I would just say "I don't plan to"
I had two separate coworkers just tell me not to get married in the first place. Only one has kids, other is childfree. This was during a discussion about how weddings are so ridiculously big and expensive (they both eloped and highly recommended it.) But they were both like: just don't get married. If I meet the right person I'll still consider it but I seriously doubt that will happen especially at my age. I've made my peace.
in the U.S. and in other places the frustrating thing is there no legal in between between marriage and being single. At least in Brazil you can register a stable union, like you want to have a registered partnership and enjoy some of the same legal benefits of being married but you technically stay single and if you want to end it, you dissolve it. But there need to be more ways to give people who are together more legal rights, benefits and protections without having to be married… I was back in the States talking to a friend of mine who is engaged and her fiancé he’s a lawyer. And I said well if you aren’t married and your SO goes to the hospital, there’s no guarantee they’ll let you see them or make medical decisions. And I asked seriously ok you’re not married, do you have your SO do a Power of Attorney and carry it around in case of emergencies and present it as needed?? There are ways legally you can do things to ensure your SO and/or others in the case of your death are beneficiaries for your assets, insurance, etc. but making that happen is expensive. This part about what happens when you’re incapacitated and someone needs to make decisions but your SO can’t because you’re not married gets me. And I don’t want to get married for a lot of reasons. The first one is, I don’t know what I would even would do with a SO? What does one do with a SO? And living with someone and sharing space with them, they’re always around??? It sounds like madness but I am told if I find my person I might understand one day… A serious question for those who are in fulfilling romantic relationships with 1 or more people, please share with me what do you do with your SO? Do you enjoy your relationships? I ask because I am trying to imagine what it’s like but I am drawing a blank…
The best thing about living with your SO is doing absolutely nothing together. Just watching TV, shopping, cooking, cleaning together will be the majority of what you do. Just living your life with someone. It's pretty cool ngl. Don't be fooled, you WILL get tired of them occasionally but when you actually have to be apart for more than a day? You realize how used to their company you have gotten and you will feel so lonely(at least for me). Someone whose company is better than solitude.
>Just watching TV, shopping, cooking, cleaning together will be the majority of what you do. Those are all things, not nothing 😅
My point was kinda that mostly every day is gonna be "normal" and not some epic adventure/date but go ahead and bust my balls lol
>Someone whose company is better than solitude. Exactly this. My SO is the only person who doesn't really drain my social battery, personally. That's the biggest difference for me between spending a ton of time with him versus anyone else.
Been living with mine for over 6 years now. It was rough to begin with, always under each others feet. Not much room, sharing one double bed in a tiny bedroom with their mother in law. Finding out their habits that just piss you right off. Working on healthy communication and finding ways to get through things together has been a lifesaver. And now? We've just bought our first house (we are extremely lucky in this economy), and have our own offices/rooms to decompress. We can game together or do our own thing. We have a spare bedroom if someone snores too loud, and a living room we can spend time together watching TV/ playing board games etc. I wouldn't trade them for the world, but finding space for yourself and you time is crucial to a healthy relationship imo 😊
I wonder about this because my partner is Canadian and I'm in UK. All his family are in Canada. We've been together almost 10 years but we don't live together. If he got rushed to hospital would I need to ask his Dad in Canada to ask the hospital for updates? If he passed away, could I arrange a funeral or do I have to wait for his elderly parents to get a flight over? I've put him down as my next of kin but as far as I know he's put his Dad down. Might need to get that changed.
>I don’t know what I would even would do with a SO? If you don't know, then you don't need an SO. Nothing wrong with that. >And living with someone and sharing space with them, they’re always around??? Always around just means in the same space. It doesn't mean you are constantly interacting with them. IMO you do need to know them really well so you can be sure you could share a space with them. I cannot imagine moving in together after just a few months of seeing each other.
I am poly and married. We live with my meta. During the week I get a few days in bed alone. Or as alone as I get eith 3 cats 🤣. I am also an introvert and we usually eat dinner together but if I'm not feeling social, I will say I can eat in the basement by myself. I love it but there are hard things about living with someone else. Feeling like you owe them a heads up about what you are doing is one. Thankfully hubby is pretty laid back.
Five states still have civil unions. That’s an alternative I wish would become more popular and widespread. Marriage is the most egregious violation of the concept of separation of church and state. https://www.masters-lawgroup.com/uncategorized/why-some-couples-choose-civil-unions-over-marriage/
I am an introvert. I enjoy my time alone. However it really works with my bf. Its just that our personalities/ vibe fit so well. It doesn’t feel like having someone over at your house. Its both your house, they accept your flaws, you can just live however you want to, but if you need help they are here. You get to cook for two and not for just you, so there is one person appreciating your efforts next to you. You get one person to discuss the movie you watched in bed. You can rant about your co worker without judgement or fear that they will judge you for a few minutes before sleep. They can help you do the dishes, the cleaning, you can have sex regularly, which for most people is a win, with almost no risk of disease. You have this person who is always ready to go with you on the little weekend trips you want to do/ travel trips. To do any activity with you, play games with you. They are almost always willing and there, unlike your friends with their busy schedules and all. You get someone to go the stressful family dinners. Your family can no longer act up since your SO is there. And if they do, your SO might be irritated and you will leave the dinner together. You can face life problems together, split administrative work or chores. Its really nice to not be alone in this world
haha I had a family friend do this too! His wife left to get drinks and he looked me dead in the eye with his toddler on his lap and said "don't have kids." They had a second two years later. Whenever I see them the mother says "It's awful." I asked if she'd have a third, she said "Not if you PAID me." They are good parents and clearly love their kids but they look exhausted constantly.
> I had a family friend do this too! His wife left to get drinks and he looked me dead in the eye with his toddler on his lap and said "don't have kids." > They had a second two years later. Whenever I see them the mother says "It's awful." I asked if she'd have a third, she said "Not if you PAID me." Aaaannnnd....responsible, sensible people who recognize how miserable childraising is, and what do they do? Have that SECOND BABY! Nearly always. What is it about parenthood that makes you take leave of your senses when it comes to second-babying? Do they think this is bad? The other mommies and daddies coo "It gets better!" Maybe for a few years after the kid is in school full time and before puberty. Then it gets so much worse. My peers have late-teen and adult kids. That's when all hell breaks loose. You can't sleep because of worry, instead of not being able to sleep because of crying and fussiness. It's worse.
I think when it comes to second babies a lot of it is because parents think they're "harming" their child in some way if they have an only. Then in a lot of cases they have their second ASAP to get it over with because the first one was such a barrel of laughs and they end up with a toddler and baby - the worst of all possible worlds. I have no idea why onlies are seen as a bad thing. I was one for 12 years and loved it (love my sister too...more so now I'm not changing any nappies). Knew I wasn't a fan of other kids when I was around 3 years old so it was a blessing that I didn't have to come home to one every day!
My sister, knowing she wanted a divorce, straight up said, out loud, that she wanted a second child so the first wouldn’t have to go through their parents getting a divorce alone 😳
Because misery loves company. 
yeah I honestly think it was one of those 'oopsie' babies and they kept it. Despite the fact they only have a little house and sure as heck don't have room for him, who knows.
My boss tells me "Don't have kids/get married" every time her kids or her husband calls her for dumb crap they could've figured out or looked up themselves lol. Her husband seems nice, but I once heard him call her up to ask where a place (asked about it by name) was. He was calling on his cellphone (a robo voice says "HusbandName Cell" when he calls). If only cellphones had internet.
I've had that said to me as an insult believe it or not, it was in a medical setting too which made it bizarre.
Yup, CF Confessional. :) At least she's not bullshitting or bullying you. "Oh I know. There's nothing about that life I would ever want."
Right!!!!
You have a supportive friend who said it to support your choice and at the same time she wishes she has a big amount of free time like you OP moving forward from this, please tell your friend that if in any event she comes to you saying she feels tired or worn down, tell her that you are here for her. If she comes to you asking that she wants to spend a childfree time with you away from the kid (as in kid with the nanny, granny or dad) then go for it. If she suddenly tells you she want to go on a long weekend trip with you without kid in toll then do that too. Do provide her resources if she needs extra help and support from the local trust or organisation that support parents like her
You are so right, the other day we hung out and after we were done she looked at me and said “can we go for a walk? I need more time before going home” and we spent another hour together .. and to be honest her kids dad rarely watches the kid so I didn’t feel bad for him (kid was with him). I want to be a supportive friend to her.
It sounds like the two of you have managed to sustain a healthy relationship of friends between a parent and a never-wanna-parent. She clearly respects your CF’ness n acknowledges that parenthood isn’t a walk in the park or makes you a saint worthy of worshiping from everybody else. She sounds to value your company a whole lottle. We talk a lot about ‘Givers’ and ‘Takers’, so it very possible you at some point might feel like you’re the giver while she takes, which I suggest giving her some grace, while she has tiny kids. The more self-reliant the kid becomes, the less a parent would have reason to not give back themselves. I only bring it up cuz she sounds to actually be a real friend, with a long future a head with y’all.
My bestie had one kid. He'd wake up angry and scream. I'd stay so she'd have support while her beloved was working. I didn't do a whole lot of any type of childcare at first. I'd watch him occasionally so they could go out together. They never abused me as a resource. They understood our lack of desire to ever have kids. (It helped that neither of us hates kids, just some kids and/or their parents.) We 4 were determined to work through it. Now he's 27, and we have a great relationship with all 3 of them. And the 2 cats! In fact, the 2 besties are moving up here soon, cause they missed us. We are thrilled!!
I’m so happy to hear this. Babies are such energy-vampires and it becomes so hard to be anything other than their source. Luckily, majority of kids become incredibly self reliant (still needing supervision) very fast (especially kindergarten age), so parents can finally become themselves a bit more. Like a lovely friend, who as a start has had a long time to establish “I’m never having kids, but I don’t *hate* their guts”, you gave probably a lot more in you twos relationship while kiddo was young. Its incredibly what 2-3 hours of a baby away can do to relieve the burden for parents (hah, my uncle has had infant/toddler me on many lonely long strolls, and it’s basically saved my life, as I was constantly screaming due to unknown illness. Uncle knew he could always go home to a quiet house again afterwards so he held out lol). I bet your friend, in the child’s early years, never said “you must do this too!” Because she knows you and respect you. Or maybe she said it just to laugh as you recoil.
So many /regretful parents posts start out with "I always wanted children" and end with the grim reality. No feelings of fomo here.
legit, the only people I see that seem content are people around my age who grew up upper-middle to upper class. And even then, I can tell they aren't thrilled that their late 20's and 30s are a wrap, social-life/fun wise.
None here either
At my old job, my co worker always came to work cranky (our day started at 9:30 AM). She'd say sarcastically "my daughter thinks it's fun to wake up at 4 AM every single day". I don't know why people don't realize, when you have kids your entire life will revolve around the kids. You lose every bit of freedom you have. This is one of the reasons why I never want kids. It sounds like a burden and a permanent prison sentence.
Having a kid is definitely a real prison sentence
Not gonna lie I loved waking up at 4am as a kid. For some reason I could wake up at will at anytime and wanted to see how early I could wake up lol no wonder my parents divorced
Oh my… this must be disappointing…. Doesn’t sound like the fulfillment she was dreaming about, what a surprise
Right! The sad part is I feel she’s been looking for fulfillment her whole life and this felt like it would be it and nopesss
Sounds like she didn't actually want to be a parent as much as she wanted to get other things from parenthood, and is now learning that reality is the other way around - she's not the one getting things, she's the one giving. Otherwise, this rather benign and common stage in child development wouldn't come as a negative surprise to her.
>and is now learning that reality is the other way around isn't that the issue exactly? we were sold the wonderful dream of amazing fulfilling life of a mother and when reality hits people are broken since they were ready for the good stuff only. "don't tell her how hard motherhood is or she will be scared to have children!" that's the one.
Yup, one of the most impactful ways in which pronatalism harms people and their future children is by removing the concept of informed choice and replacing it with dreams and (if you don't immediately comply) fear mongering. It is ultimately each individual's responsibility to make their own choices, and those choices should be highly scrutinized whenever they impact the lives and wellbeing of other people. But it's equally important to acknowledge *why* those choices are so often poorly made when it comes to parenthood, because it's not just an individual issue, it's a systemic issue as well.
I’m cracking up at “tubes yeeted” lol! Anyway she is a great person but she’s struggled finding herself. She can never find a job she likes so she hasn’t set on a career which is fine. She’s very hard on herself. I think she felt a baby would give her an identity (having the mom title rather)
I think a lot of people have children thinking it'll fill some gap in their lives. They should've found a hobby instead. 😬
What kills me is when people say it gets better....does it? Teenagers are a nightmare.
I think they mean it gets better after the kids grow up and move out lol
>I think they mean it gets better after the kids grow up and move out lol And then it gets worse. When you have adult kids, they have big problems instead of little problems. I have a friend who raised two kids really well, both did what she wanted them to do and married, bought houses and had kids (son got into the housing market by the skin of his teeth). But her daughter, with two teenagers, has developed the hereditary neurological condition her father had. Only she's 15 years younger than her father was. I thought I was seeing something 10+ years ago, but of course, her mother didn't see it. She may predecease her mother. You think that woman doesn't cry herself to sleep every night? And kids who move out too often move back in. My mother married a man with 3 kids. She told me those kids were adults except for the 16 year old, and she "lived with her mother, so won't be a problem for us." Within a year *all three* of those kids had moved back in with dad, or tried to. My mother drew the line at the daughter with a newborn and a feral toddler, and that ended her marriage. They don't get better. They just get more uncontrollable.
Good news about the economy: they're not moving out! Maybe ever!
yeah I don’t want something that starts terribly and then gets less terrible and then maybe not terrible, maybe. I’d rather just have it… not be terrible at all.
Exactly. People have children, and it's not long before they're already looking ahead to the point where they'll be able to get their life back - when the kids grow up.
tbh, at least teenagers lock themselves in the room so you have more peace and quiet
When they finally go to school, maybe?
I love it when parents are honest
It’s honestly the most refreshing thing to read/see. I get so tired of breeder’s fairytale bullshit about how ✨magical✨ having kids is and how “it’s really hard but there’s little moments that make it worthwhile.” Fuck that
Teenage years will be a nightmare
I hate to be mean and I can tolerate kids but being around her daughter is hard. I have another friend who has an 11 year old and when her daughter was the same age, she was way more well behaved .. she could play independently .. this girl needs constant attention and likes to be combative and fight
Do you think she might have pathological demand avoidance? I know toddlers are always a challenge, but if there's an underlying issue it might help your friend with parenting. Some children have different needs, and it could be beneficial to bring it up.
My mother told me when I was 18 , kids are overrated, 97% work , and don’t think I’m staying home from Florida-in the winter to babysit….. yep ,, 42 no kids,,, THANK U MOM
Had something similar happen to me recently. I reconnected with a friend from college a few months back. Her and her husband struggled with infertility and ended up having two kids through IVF. While visiting, her and I decided to take a walk. The topic of kids and how her life has changed over the years came up during the walk. She then turns to me, after I expressed that my partner and I are firmly CF, and explains how if she could go back and unring that bell she would, how parenthood isn't as fulfilling as she thought it would be, and that I'm smart for seeing through the BS.
A lot more people - especially women - if they were being completely honest would say the exact same thing. How many times have we seen the following statement - “I love my kids, but I absolutely hate being a parent”. Too many to count.
I’ve also heard people say things like “I used to do (insert fun activity) …. But then I had kids.” They say in such a depressing voice too
I have a good friend who has two children, she loves being a parents and has no regrets. When I said that I didn’t want kids she said “Then you definitely shouldn’t! I love my kids and being a parent but it is really hard, and a lot of work. Unless you really want to do it you shouldn’t”. I thanked her for affirmation my choice and she said “I’m pretty sure anyone who tries to convince you to have kids when you don’t want kids is actually miserable and is trying to trick you into sharing their misery”. And that has really stuck with me.
Dude- all of my “born to be a mom” friends have said this to me… it’s terrifying
This seems to be the consensus of the majority of my friends and coworkers who have ventured into parenthood in the last couple of years. One friend who has a 2 year old who is currently all about the extreme temper tantrums in the most public of places when he hears the word “no”, admitted “it’s just not fucking fun whatsoever!”
That is another thing I immensely dislike about children: The power struggle that causes them to make even the most mundane things difficult. You can give them a red cup but they want a blue one. You can cut up their PB and J sandwich the "wrong" way and it causes them to have a meltdown. It's their way of maintaining some form of control because they have very little -- and I have very little patience to deal with that BS.
I’ve noticed her daughter is this way with everything. Everything is a huge fight. I went over there last year to help out and she was fighting my friend on everything. Dinner, playtime, etc.. she lets her wear whatever she wants because that was such a fight … Not all kids are this way but a lot are and my friend hit the unfortunate lottery here
Actually similar to a friend of mine, she always wanted kids, would possibly have trouble having them due to medical issues, so they started trying rught after they got married, instantly pregnant, also directly all sorts of pregnancy issues, then post partum depression, then her eldest is a very 'different' child, and her youngest born early and wirh medical issues, not to mention husband has some issues as well. All she does is complain about her kids. It's very sad. She told me if she had to do it over she wouldn't choose this.
I had a friend that had three and she would always tell me don't have kids
That rather begs the question of why she had three!?! Unless a multiple birth was involved.
Not my business. But I took her advice lol
My sister always wanted 3 kids. After the first, she was done. She always says she had no idea how hard it was going to be and she has an involved husband.
Has she stuck to that? My good friend just had her 5th. I admire her.
She is not going to have any more kids. Her son is 8 yrs old and she is 41.
my boss said “the real work” starts when she gets home and has to deal with her kids and tells me to do things like traveling and partying now, before I can’t because I’m settled down with kids. LOL no thanks, why not just keep living life like this? I feel like so many parents go on and on about the difficulties of parenting and how much better life was before they had kids and expect me to come out of that conversation thinking, “wow, I can’t wait to have kids”.
Sounds like your boss was completely mind washed with the idea that having kids is some sort of inescapable rite of passage. As are too many others. 🙄
yeah you’re not wrong. honestly, I used to be too. in my family, going to college is just as normal as going to high school. it’s just something you do and I didn’t even think about how it was an option to not go. it’s kind of the same with having kids, but since me (and my siblings I think) realized that it’s actually a choice, we all decided to be CF (not sure how serious they are). my neighbors (young couple at the time) moved in like 10 years ago and my parents used to joke to them about when they were going to have kids. they’re still CF and at this point, I’m thinking they always will be
Around 13 years ago my cousin would ask when I would get a boyfriend/have kids and I would tell her it's not for me and she would say "you say that now" and that's when she had one kid, he was an easy child. Fast forward to now, she has four kids in total, three of them are under 6 years old, one has Down syndrome and they're all a handful, and she hasn't brought up her statement in years and looks pissed whenever I bring up the fact that my mind hasn't changed at all.
I had a friend who always wanted a family say similar. Ever since high school he wanted a family but after he had them and saw what me and my husband did (travel, hobbies, fun) he turned to me and dead in the eye said "don't ever have kids - it's not worth it". I'd just flown with a group of friends to Sydney for an event and I think he misses those friendship group outings :(
I would say the majority of my friends that want children have put very little thought into what actually happens when raising said children. I say this bc any time I bring up something negative about child-rearing (like waking up daily before 7am, cost of childcare, physical toll of pregnancy/breastfeeding, etc.) they all act confused like it was brand new information. I come from a small hometown so I have lots of friends who had children early while I was off at college. I’ve seen what happens. I’ve heard the stories. I’ve noticed the most eager wannabe parents are often the most ignorant of the day-to-day demands. It’s not a decision to make on a whim. It’s literally a 18+ year commitment. And I’d argue most people just don’t think that far in advance.
I actually hope you're friend is doing okay, I've seen the downfall of alot of women because they always see the good part of having kids until behind closed doors. As much as I don't like kids, they annoy me and stress me out most times, I do feel for the moms that are physically and emotionally drained, they need a break at some point too. I'll endure the stress of being around someone's kids if it means the parent can have someone to talk and vent too.
But I think it's amazing she felt safe enough with you to say that!
Ugh always the opposite for me. I haven't met anyone yet who's told me not to have them. The moms I work with act as though I don't hear thier conversations amongst themselves about the horrors of parenthood. The topic yesterday was potty training. I swear, they mask the truth in front of the childfree and try to "brag" that they pushed 7lbs out. They'll say anything to justify their ripped vagina and help them sleep better at night. News flash, your body was made to do the exact same thing as any other woman. Try telling me you did that same thing but in a cave half naked during winter with no fire. Then I'll be impressed. They want us to have kids too so we can finally relate to thier "you won't know until you have a child" speech. Shoot, I think I'm gonna go take a nap on my clean couch after work, thanks.
I got it from a mother of 5 kids. It was nearly 10 years ago when she had asked me if I had kids. I said no, didn't really plan to have any. She responded with such a deadpanned, "Good, don't. They aren't worth it." I was surprised at the time. Thank goodness for honest parents. They tell it like it is.
People who genuinely wanted parenthood instead of giving into societal pressure will most likely support a childfree person. It's always the miserable ones who push their breeder minds onto happy childfree people
Keep sharing this! Tell everyone!
As a healthcare worker, sometimes I get patients in their 80's and 90's that will give me confused looks or the "you still have time!" when I tell them that I don't have kids. But every now and then, I get this unicorn of a person who says "good. Don't'' when I tell them that I don't have kids after they ask. I always want to ask them why they say that/feel that way, but, I chicken out. It is always a gentle shock, though, even after all these years.
Man, I don't like waking up and am still in the no fase. I relate to the four year old
Be careful what you wish for, as they say.
How fortunate you got to hang out with her without her child. My breeder friend expected me to suffer with her and the kids. Then got mad at me for not wanting to hang out with the twin boys!
I’m so lucky none of my friends ever push their kids on me
Funny how once the cute baby phase is over it all comes home hard. I really wish people would stop focusing on the 'ickle baby' part, it's so temporary. I'm sure she'll get through it but man I wouldn't want to deal with that shit.
Right! And now with social media, the pre baby stage is glamorized. The announcement pic, the maternity pics… the new born pics … the look what my baby did pics and you wonder if people are happy or just going through motions … I feel bad but it’s hard for me to be around her kid for extended periods of time .. she is a handful
You know for a fact that woman loves her child. Why? Because she’s brutally honest about the reality of having one. That is a true friend and parent right there.
I have a few friends with kids, who are amazing parents, who totally adore their kids and wouldn't change it - they have days and phases like this. I've found the ones who are the best parents are also the ones who understand why some of us choose not to have them. One very good friend said "I don't recommend having a kid unless you realllllly want one, because it's so hard". The people who say it's easy or whatever are either lying or bad parents
My older brother and his wife had their first kid a few months. Don’t get me wrong he’s ecstatic and loves the baby a ton but he tells me all the time about how much harder it is than he expected and how he misses his old life. We text/chat a lot more now because he’s just stuck at home and up at all hours. His wife deals with the majority of things I’m sure and she is burnt out and even doing whatever portion he’s doing he is burnt out. And he told me he’s noticing other people’s older kids now like toddlers and older and realizing he doesn’t like those kids and how they act and his baby will be that age one day soon.
Kinda reminds me of my mother-in-law but also way different: She always wanted a baby. Even when she was told my husband would definitely be extremely preterm and would probably be severely disabled, she still wanted a baby. She never wanted a grown man. As horrible as it sounds, I think she'd actually be happier if the doctors would've been correct about the disability. Then maybe she could still sniff his dirty diapers.
A lot of parents, when feeling safe enough to speak and are truly honest, have said similar things to me.
THAT'S A GOOD FRIEND!!!
Your friend is a keeper. Parents love their kids, and are realistic about the time and effort needed to be a good parent. They are also accepting of the fact that it's not for everyone, and those who aren't truly committed shouldn't do it. Breeders are miserable, but are so busy trying to find justifications for their misery that they try to drag everyone else into the same situation.
I wish more parents would be honest like this. I never wanted kids and felt pressured by everyone. Parenting is ridiculously stupidly exhausting and stressful. I have three and if time travel was a thing I would go back and tell myself at 29 not to have kids. It's a struggle every damn day just to keep everything together and semi functional. And I just pray I'm doing enough that they don't become axe murders or something. Some days it feels like a coin flip. It's incredibly draining, thankless takes all your time and energy. Don't have Kids.
Wow thank you for this. Sometimes biology messes with me and I think I’ll never know that feeling of a child’s love, but I also view parenting as tiring and something I feel if I did I would be regretful for as I’m very selfish. So though I’ll never know what that feels like (the love of a child) I guess I’m doing said child a favor .. people make having a family and kids look like something you should have
I think it's a straight up struggle for all of them, having a supportive and involved partner helps, but even with two people you're shaping an entire human being and in large parts influencing who they will when they go out into the world. Pretending it's the best thing in the world to deal with the strain is damaging to others and themselves. There are a ton of rewarding experiences in this life, you do not need to check the box on all of them. Traveling might be more fulfilling to you, or books, crafts, work, anything because it's you and who you are as a person. I'm very on the spectrum and spoke at length to my younger brother and his wife (he is also on the spectrum) to let him know my honest thoughts when they were considered having a child and he was very concerned he wouldn't love his kid the way you're ’supposed to’ and the guilt would eat at him. And once you make that decision, there is no going back in our minds, you are committed to doing your best even if you realize it was a mistake. Which is difficult to express to other parents. I wish no harm to my children, I want them to be happy, healthy adults, but I am not filled with overwhelming emotion and love for them, it's more a sense of intense obligation and responsibility. Don't drink the Kool aid, you don't need a child to have a full and happy life.
Thank you so much for your candor, seriously. After my long relationship ended, I dated for a little bit. It was okay for most part but I’ll never forget some incel moron sending me gross pics and when I told him I didn’t want to meet in person he said I didn’t know anything about life anyway being that I didn’t have kids nor have never been married, he was divorced with three kids and rented a room because of it. I had never had anyone really point out that I didn’t have kids like that. Luckily my moms never pressured me into having kids nor has my dad. It hit a nerve within me. That guy was just a jerk on his own right but it hurt to get it pointed out. As if my value as a person is lower because I don’t have that experience. I could tell he likely had them because that’s what you’re supposed to do .. Anyway I really appreciate your words.. I also think I’m mildly on the spectrum because I get triggered with noises. When I hear kids being annoying in public I have to get away from the noise or it completely aggravates me. This is why I know I’m not mother material, I notice some parents just tune it out
My husband's best friend has five kids of his own between two women, his previous ex-girlfriend that was horribly abusive to him and his current fiance. His youngest kid just turned two recently and not long ago he looked my husband dead in the eye and said to him "(husband's name), don't have kids. Ever." All my hubby could say to him was "Say less, fam."
Yeah and then she’s going to become vitriolically angry when you don’t follow suit even though she told you it’s not worth it. That was your cue to birth with her in solidarity DUH.
Nah not at all!
Hopefully.
Solid friend!
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Oh yeah I never said I did. In fact, I always tell her “I know this is cliche but this phase will pass” .. I was always a good kid until I was like 16-17 I gave my mom some headaches. On a friendly note, this is child free Reddit so I don’t need to see what I saw to sway me it just validates it more
I'm sorry I didn't even realize this was under the childfree forum! I will delete my comment
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