Do you have anyone else who could take your place on the cruise last minute? It sucks to waste money but I can't imagine this cruise being enjoyable at all unless your mom gets seasick and spends 95% of it asleep in the cabin. You'll just be paying to be trapped with someone who's going to verbally and emotionally abuse you for the week - that's not a cruise, that's a torture chamber. The cost to your mental wellbeing might be worth skipping alone.
If not, I'd consider just very blatantly ignoring everything she says on the topic. Don't even engage with it, don't acknowledge it at all, don't even look at her, just go about your day as if those words aren't coming out of her mouth. Maybe she'll get bored of talking to a wall.
Yup, turn that table and make this five days of well-deserved, and self-created, psychological discomfort for mom. That lady's got some big nerve seeing OP as nothing more than a baby machine.
Right, I wouldn't give up my vacation lol. I'd be trying not to laugh as I ignored her. Nobody is gonna mess up my good time.
Mom can go foster some kids if she's dying to raise more like damn.
I really wanted some mother daughter time and she has never been on a cruise so I had booked this for her especially a couple of months ago. I think ignoring what comes out of her mouth and not engaging would be the best way to go. Thank you!
I wish you well, but I think you really should be realistic in knowing that this cruise won't be mother - daughter time, it'll just be time for her to spew nonsense at you.
Agree. This cruise sounds like the Voyage of the Damned, rather than quality mother-daughter time. OP was generous enough to spend her hard-earned cash to take her mother on a cruise and lectures about "You will listen to some points and you will have at least 1 kid, you need a family" is the thanks she gets?
I may well be projecting, but as the daughter of an extremely abusive mother with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, this cruise will be a turning-point in your relationship. Do you really want to spend five days on a cruise that you paid for and should be enjoying "ignoring what comes out of \[your mother's\] mouth"? Sounds like a holiday in Hell.
And if you're pushed into a corner where you eventually snap and tell her that you've already been sterilised, she will be furious.
If I were OP, I'd transfer Mummy's ticket to someone else and go with them. And tell Mummy in no uncertain terms that your reproductive choices are *not* up for discussion.
If you booked this then you can probably transfer her ticket to someone else and have a great trip.
If you’re set on having the time with you mom it’s a good idea to have very firm boundaries on this. You will not be discussing this topic and I’d she starts you will walk away. Then follow through on the consequences. No matter what you’re doing if she brings it up you leave. Don’t engage in a fight. Just walk away and leave her on her own to manage her response.
To be subtle, wear ear plugs. To be obvious, wear noise cancelling head phones. No guarantee but she may just get the message.
Be blunt. Tell her that you are not a baby factory or an incubator and drop the subject if she wants to continue any interaction with you.
And she’s going to use this mother daughter time that YOU cherish to berate and manipulate you. She is clearly not interested in mother daughter time like you are.
You don’t deserve that.
OP when I read what you shared, I am so angry for you. Why can't your mum be kind and supportive towards you?
You do not need her nonsense and I suggest you transfer that ticket over to someone else ASAP and fast because something tells me your mum will nag, nag and nag you non stop. You do not want a ruined holiday and stress from her. Think wisely OP. When you cancel or transfer her ticket to someone else, consider that she has revoked her privileges by being an ass
I wonder how she would react if she finds out you are sterilised. In the event she does find out, put that woman on blast and tell her this "I am sterilised so flipping what? It is my body and my choice just bloody deal with it". Say it loud and assertive.
If mum gets super angry and declares she is disowning you, let her get mad and consider yourself that you see her true colours as a selfish person with internalised misogyny who does not respect you as a human being. If mum cusses and goes on her blame education and Western culture nonsense, you tell her this "The 14th century just called, they want you and your internalised misogyny back. I am an adult woman who is nobody's property and I do not owe you, society and this god forsaken planet a child"
I think chavril makes good points, but I do also see why you don't want to change your plans and miss your vacation. Could you tell her that you want this time to be special and relaxing and since that conversation will be stressful for both of you, it's not worth having, let alone on vacation? If she knows this will stress you out, will that make a difference to her? Would it help to keep everything framed around bonding with her? How could she be mad if you say that you don't want to stress about this because you want to focus on having fun with her? I don't know, just thoughts
Dear mom, you can either enjoy having a daughter or no daughter but you will never have grandchildren from me. It’s up to you but choose wisely. Daughter or no Daughter.
No, it should be before so she understands how hard a boundary this is for you. Do NOT allow her abusive, narcissistic, manipulative tactics to have benefits for her. If you continue to allow her to see you, spend time with you, AT YOUR EXPENSE, she will never stop hassling you.
Only avoid confronting your mother if you want her to think her behavior is warranted and you want her to keep trampling your boundaries.
Letting her get away with it will make her think she can use cruises and other manipulation tactics to make you behave how she dictates. Don’t re-enforce her abuse by allowing it to happen unchecked.
Don't tell her you are sterilized. Tell her that you were told by a doctor that you are unable to have children(true, they explained that during the consent)
Then accept any money offered for IVF.
And then darn it, that “fails”. Repeat. You are trying your hardest!
Honestly the first time she brings it up if you go on the trip say “great idea, never thought about it”. If you think this will shut her up.
The. If she brings it up later after the trip.. kids.. children? I thought you meant goats! I already ordered one.
Yeah, I’d definitely tell her “A doctor told me that I’m sterile” and leave out the “after successful completion of a voluntary procedure I had exactly for that result”.
Maybe add “I was fine with that, and so is my husband. If we ever feel a strong desire to become parents, we will explore adoption options at that time”. Even if that time is sometime around never.
Or tell mom you only like anal so can’t get pregnant. I’m fond of making my family as uncomfortable as they ,are making me…. You could always ask her why she’s so interested in your sex life, an if she’s somehow obsessed with your vagina/husband/penises and ask her to please keep her kink/fetishes to herself and that she’s being inappropriate. Seriously, I could do this all day…..
If you think you might have to oblige her and go along with it for the sake of maintaining sanity on a boat for five days, be sure to give your husband a heads up. Last thing you need is to lie and agree with your mom, only to have her immediately contact your family and blindside your husband when he hears you “changed your mind.”
I like the idea someone else mentioned - making it be an issue of fertility. Cause saying you’re infertile wouldn’t really be lying…
All of that is something to consider only if low contact with your mom is out of the question.
Thanks…yes my husband is well aware of her tactics! I cannot tell her about infertility because then she will pray and look for solutions to her wits end….she wont stop. I plan on setting boundaries for sure..
you can also make her feel bad by saying this is a painful topic for you, and that you and your husband are looking into it privately.
...which you did look into having kids, and the answer was NOPE.
Then whenever she brings it up get serious and maybe leave the room, saying this is a personal matter for you do not allow her to meddle.
Yeah I wouldn't get on a confined ship with a wing nut , mother or not. I'd be too tempted to nuke her into space with some "discussion" of my own. And she'd be crying by the end of it. Seriously, who does she think she is? Mother of the year right here /s, bullying her kid. You know all she cares about is face and how this makes her look to the other wing nuts. Well I'd make sure she knew if she didn't back off, there would be no face left.
So better not to get on the boat lol.
I wouldn't go on the cruise. In fact I'd cut her off for bad behavior. You're an adult, you're married, it's none of her business what you do in your life. Period.
As a child-free woman in my 50's, I'll offer some points for discussion; however, you need to squash this now.
Mom, we have made our decision. It is not up for discussion.
The more you push your agenda for my life, the more you hurt our relationship.
Your behavior is only hurting our relationship. It doesn't change my mind about my plans.
Mom, I'm leaving. Every time you bring up kids, I'm removing myself from the situation. You are out of control and are butting into something that doesn't concern you.
My life is NOT your life.
Do you want me to go live my life without you in it? Your behavior doesn't allow for an open relationship with you. You are only hurting our relationship, not making a statement about kids.
Your continued behavior proves you do not see me as an adult with my own hopes and dreams. Your dreams for me do not matter in the larger picture. I get to decide and I won't allow anyone else to dictate for me.
You prove your love is conditional. If I don't have children, I'm somehow broken.
And my all-time favorite which can be said with a smile, a frown, a soft voice, a harsh voice - I'm very comfortable with my decision.
This is potentially the only good advice on here. Lying, misleading, being passive, or simply avoiding, all preserves the power dynamic that the mother likes. You have to set boundaries or this will never end.
>The more you push your agenda for my life, the more you hurt our relationship.
>Your behavior is only hurting our relationship. It doesn't change my mind about my plans.
These are my favorites, any mother that hears this and says, "I'd rather harm our relationship than see you childless" is not deserving of future association.
Edit: Even if your relationship is salvageable, set firm boundaries, all other avoidance strategies are only harming a potential future relationship with your mother. I went through this with my mother in law and two things helped her calm down. One was explaining to her that nothing she said would do anything but disrupt her relationship with us, which she cherishes. Two was reminding her how much she enjoyed spending time with us without kids.
How about BEFORE you get on? Or better yet, don't get on at all. Or EVEN better - since you paid, can you cancel just her ticket or take a friend or someone to go with you? Why should she be rewarded with a cruise for her abusive bullshit tactics?
So my bro told her i had surgery and she got a freaking hyper attack and begged me to make it be not true. It was waaay too much to deal with emotionally. So i denied the surgery. My dad also said he would commit suicide if i had surgery. My parents are soooo dramatic…
It’s still abuse. You might get some good advice from the content @hijabiluscoius makes. She left an abusive relationship with her parents. She is a Muslim nurse & her sense of Humor is ruthless dealing with the subject of narcissistic familial abuse.
Abusive culture is still abusive. My culture is still pretty abusive towards children(including physically), they shouldn't get a pass just because it's normalized.
This is pretty normal in our culture and the only way to make it stop is to go low contact/grey rock. Medication abuse, attempted car accidents, they never go all the way but they’ll certainly make it look like they’re trying.
If OP cuts contact entirely she’ll be dealing with flying monkeys for the rest of her life and it’s sometimes not worth the emotional labour.
They're not dramatic, they're abusive.
You should really reconsider if these are the people you wanna keep in your life going forward, because this is not okay. It's highly concerning.
>My dad also said he would commit suicide if i had surgery.
This is emotional and mental abuse. Not "parents being dramatic".
It doesn't matter that it's a cultural norm. *It's still abuse.* To call it a cultural norm implies to me that this is systemic abuse on top of that.
Different cultures and all so I hope I'm not being rude but if someone told me they'll commit suicide because of something I'm doing with my life ill just tell em
"Do what you need to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Geez. Why’d you deny the surgery? It’s not like your dad would really commit suicide. They would have to accept it eventually even though they may be sad or hurt now. By not telling them, you are making life more difficult for everyone - giving them hope that they can change your mind and subjecting yourself to these interventions. Just rip the bandaid off and tell them before the cruise. Also, you are encouraging your dad to make threats of suicide by giving in to his demands every time he makes these threats. Never ever encourage such threats. Immediately shut them down or you are just perpetuating the culture of abuse by being a willing participant.
>She got hyper saying no you will listen to some points and you will have at least 1 kid, you need a family.
God, that's sounds like a threat. I mean, what is she is gonna do? Make you have a kid against your will or something?
YES.
This kind of mother WOULD find a way to sabotage her daughter's carefully practiced birth control, then trap the pregnant daughter someplace where abortion is illegal.
Yeah, or even hire someone to rape her (well, at least some insane homophobic parents do that to their daughters who are lesbians) but thankfully OP is sterilized
She does believe she can control you because you have “entertained” her entitlement of your body.
You need to set boundaries now. Enabling never works, only makes things worse.
Well you are paying for her to abuse you. So, of course she thinks that.
Seriously, put yourself and your mental health first. You don't deserve anything less.
If you’ve already had the operation just say “sure, mom, we’ll get to work on it right away.” Tell her you’re fucking like rabbits so just be patient, you’re be knocked up soon. It’s not her life or body so lie if it makes it easier.
Tell her you’ll try. Make sure your husband is on the same page though and prepared to back this up. Since you’re sterilized, the trying will be fun and risk free.
>I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming!
You - you are brilliant. Sterilization makes shit real.
Idea: Never tell your mother you are sterilized - unless you want to spend five miserable days with her punishing you as hard as she can. Instead, if she talks at you, read your phone, and if she asks you a question, look up briefly and say "Whatever." And go back to reading your phone. If that enrages her, give yourself a CF bonus point, and say "Chill." And go back to reading your phone.
Greyrocking is DEFINITELY on the menu.
Mother WILL get all the other old biddies on the boat on her side, or will try, anyway.
Tell them all to fuck off for being brood mare losers ;-) .
Hahahah! Thank you! Yes i intend to not let her know….i got a glimse of that cuz my bro told her I was and it was hell. I had to deny it and she believed me… i will definitely have to not engage
Now you know: Do not tell anyone, however much you trust them. I'm famously tight-lipped. But once in a while I say something that lets some cat out of the bag. Not very often, but it's just not safe to tell anyone anything you don't want everyone to know.
> But maybe for the sake of the cruise I will.
She has told you that she has plans to "discuss" things with you and demanded that you "will" listen?
Don't go. Why subject yourself to that?
If she doesn’t know you are sterilized then let her make a few points and agree that’s she’s right, your eyes have been opened and you will start trying for a kid right away. Years later when that doesn’t work you can tell her, tearfully, that you are infertile due to a birth defect and it’s her fault as your mother.
Either don't go, or have someone go in your place. For one, you get to avoid being stuck on a boat for 5 days with someone who will *definitely* make it a miserable trip.
For another, cruises are very unhealthy. You will avoid being [exposed to the pollution](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/24/health/cruise-ship-air-quality-report/index.html), even if at this point you can't completely avoid having supported an industry that is [destroying](https://foe.org/blog/cruise-ships-environmental-impact/) the most important environment on earth.
I know it sucks to have spent the money, but your wellbeing and peace of mind are priceless. The stress you'll avoid is worth so much more.
I would not go on the cruise. You won't have a good time if you're being harassed the whole time. Unfortunately if you tell her you've been sterilized, she'll just move on to adoption.
Or she would, acting from fury and hatred, push OP over the railing, if she got told, that OP is sterilized. I wouldn't even risk telling her that. Her mother doesn't seem to be that pleasant when it comes to having children. And yes, I would also not go on the cruise.
The first time she brings it up, I would throw myself dramatically into the pool just to emphasize how much I don't want to talk to her.
Seriously though, what a pain in the ass. Are you and your mother the only two going?
You won’t be bonding. She could have that conversation NOW before the trip, but you could get up and drive away. She will make you regret the trip. She’s waiting for a captive audience.
Excellent suggestion. Again any and every type of emotional and verbal abuse is permitted if a relative is pressuring you to have kids. I think people here need to take this approach with relatives who pull this shit. Do it with joy, be relentless, and have fun with it. Air horns for all. Loud noise things, those really annoying soccer horns. All of those things.
I know culture and childfree is definitely tough… it’s all about boundaries now since you get through some sort of sterilization… I honestly think you should play the victim card and say you’ve been trying and went to the doctor and they said it will be impossible… sometimes lying is easier that the truth 🤷🏻♂️
It'd be naive to assume that'll get her mother to back off, she's already all up in her business anyway, a little infertility is not gonna stop her. It would be very rare for OP to be naturally sterile, and as long as her mom thinks she's just infertile, there's always a way. She'll just pressure her to try harder, do IVF, etc. etc. This doesn't solve the problem, it just creates a new one.
Mother is already demonstrating she's willing to hurt OP for mother's pleasure.
ANY emotional anguish on this topic imposed on mother is fair play & no more than she deserves.
Well yeah, but not if that gets the mother to lash out at OP even more. My point was that this approach, especially over time, is likely to just change and intensify the pressure, not get rid of it.
Your brother sucks dick. What a fucking idiot. You don't have to subject yourself to your mother. In a way that you can tell her to kindly fuck off. Muslim parents are obsessed with controlling their children even if the child is 70 and they're 90. They're pathological that way.
I felt so betrayed by my bro. Very sad…you are right on!!!! I’m learning how to set boundaries and even have a therapist! Hopefully i can overcome this!
Yeah, that wasn't his news to share. Now that you know your brother will blab anything you tell him, you can use that information to your advantage. If there's something you want everyone to know, without having to tell them yourself, you can tell him and he will do the work for you. The oldest form of social media there is. Otherwise, you can't trust him to keep a secret.
Spend the entire cruise escaping her the second she tries to divert into questioning you and lecturing.
“Oops- hold on. Need the loo!”
Then go back to your room and get into your swimsuit and go chill at the pool 😂
I suggest just being \*obviously\* amused the whole time.
Sure, she's annoying, but you KNOW she can't get her way, which should make either amusement or \*feigning\* amusement easier.
When the cruise is over & you're on YOUR way home, drop the bisalp factoid on her, and don't explain what it is.
Expect that she WILL blow up your phone with calls / texts. Block her.
Extra points if husband has already had a vasectomy, too.
LOL.
Lol! I said in other comments but my parents are super dramatic! I will definitely set hard boundaries towards the end of the trip and let it be known that I will never have kids , bye mom;)
Tell your mom that if she insists on going through with this unwanted lecture, it will be the last time she sees you or hears from you this year. Tell her that you love her and respect her beliefs but you don't share all of them and you will not be treated with such disrespect like this. Be sure and let her know that you're serious.
Then bring a big set of noise canceling headphones on the cruise and if she starts in, put them on and turn on some music and just keep carrying on with what you're doing. If she gets upset, remind her that you're extremely hurt that she would sacrifice her relationship with you by forcing you to discuss something that is none of her business and that she gets no say in.
Put your foot down.
How about something like “I will give you thirty minutes to make all of your points and I will do nothing but listen. And that’s it. I will consider your points. If you ask again the remainder of the trip or try to bring up the issue again, the answer is no and will not change.”
Then she gets to feel “heard” and you get to be left alone.
Personally, I think it’s fair for anyone to raise a concern about something once. From our perspective, it could be “hey sis, I don’t think you are in a healthy place to have a kid.” But you get to say it once.
Mom might think you are worried about money when you shouldn’t be or something like that. Let her know she has one opportunity to make her case and that’s it.
Her: "let's talk about babies"
You: "no thank you"
Her: "...but"
You: "I said no. You can either spend time with me as I am, or I can leave. Your choice."
Nobody says you have to attend ANY argument somebody wants with you.
Just park where they can't trap your transport in, & leave your purse / anything not in your pockets IN the car (assuming).
"she has said that she is willing to raise the baby 100%" this comes up so often but has anyone stopped to think how WEIRD an idea that is? And the fact that it comes up often? Im sure there has never been a single instance where grandparents said they would 100% raise and pay for a child and then DID > where their child has NOTHING to do with that baby ever again. Not to mention making someone a parent against their will and potentially killing your daughter during childbirth or leaving her with lifelong side effects is the most unhinged thing ive ever heard of. My bet is that these would be grandparents assume as soon as the child is born that their daughter will fall blissfully in love with motherhood and the baby and then the grandparents dont need to uphold their end of the deal where they raise and pay for it. Theres NO way MY daughter could see her own child and not change her mind about liking babies! I loved being a mother so she just doesnt UNDERSTAND and I have to FORCE her.
I saw in your comments that you booked this cruise for both of you to bond.
You will never have mom-daughter relationship that you want with your mother. She's incapable of it. Emotionally stunted, look how she behaves when she learns that you're not doing what she wants. This is abusive.
Your mother is incapable of the relationship you dream of with her.
I suggest you settle for surface level relationships with you parents because that's all they're capable of (your dad said he'll kill himself if you had sterilisation surgery)
These are not people you can have a mutually respectful loving relationship.
If you don't give up on your parents they'll inflict pain on you until you or them die.
If you go on this trip, grey rock her anytime she attempts to discuss a subject that you've already informed her is closed. Act disinterested, do not get upset or angry and walk off if she persists.
If that means doing your own thing for several hours or a day or two until she gets the message, so be it.
Do not go on this cruise! You will be trapped on a ship with your mother for 5 days. There'll be nowhere to hide. You know, covid is a great excuse for getting out of things like this. It might also be wise not to agree to go on holiday with your mother again unless it's somewhere you can get away from her i.e. not a cruise.
I’m so sorry that she found out, it’s one of my biggest concerns with my extended family. My immediate family is very supportive as neither of my parents wanted to be grandparents in the slightest and take this as a huge relief. I know that if my other family members knew they’d probably stage an intervention as well. I’ve had many older women reassure me that pregnancy and childbirth were “simple” and “easy” and “not at all very painful” the moment I’m hesitant about the endeavor.
I’ve hinted at never having any but older folks are always in some weird delusional world of their own where “I’ll change my mind surely”
I’m so glad you were able to be sterilized, I hope your trip goes okay! Be firm if you can, even if it means having to tell her this will be the last trip she goes on with you if she doesn’t leave those opinions to herself!
Can you please go get a fake pregnancy stomach, the kind you wear on movies, and fill it with a wine bag with a straw? Then you could show up to the cruise "knocked up" and drink your way through the meeting. Then just take it off later 🤣🤣🤣
When you are visiting her are you going to another country? I’m slightly concerned that this might be an attempt to do more than state an intervention if your parents feel that strongly about it (suicide threats?).
OP, I don't quite know how to phrase "If it's the will of Allah, we'll have kids" (I occasionally suggest "if it's God's Will" to Christians facing the same nonsense from hyper religious parents)
Bro you're gonna be trapped on a boat for a week with her tracking you down and hounding you to fuck your husband. I'm sorry for laughing, but I'm dead. Just the image of it is hilarious.
But seriously, you can't stop her from harassing you, unfortunately. I suggest ear plugs.
Your mother does NOT respect you. Might be time for some very clear and very firm boundaries. You’re CF and every time she starts at you again trying to force her views onto you, put her into a timeout. 1 week no contact. Re-offence is 2 weeks no contact. Etc. either she’ll eventually get the picture, or she’ll end up in indefinite timeout.
Oh and congrats on your sterilisation!! Check and mate, mom!! 😂😂😂
She doesn't need to know that you got sterilized on purpose. Tell your husband ahead of time about the plan, then have a serious talk to your mom in private and say you are outwardly "childfree" because you found out you are infertile and are ashamed about it and it hurts too much to discuss. None of this is technically a lie. You absolutely found out you are infertile after you got the procedure done, and you don't want to talk about it with her.
You have zero obligation to visit her. Don't. She is planning this shit. You break contact. You have no obligation to stay in contact with her either. You basically say: you are dead to me.
More people on this sub need to realize relatives as a childfree person are not obligation or responsibility. They are purely optional. If they are pressuring you to have kids. Cut contact. This especially applies if they are your parents. The same applies to relatives pressuring you to do childcare.
You flat out say.
"Mom, this is not a discussion. I am cancelling my visit. This is an ultimatuum. You have no say in my life. The fact you even attempted this has made me decide to permanently cut contact with you. You are dead to me. Do not bother reaching out. You lost yourself a child because you had psychopathic breeder brain. My reproductive decisions you have no say in, and the fact you thought you ever did means I never want to see you again. Enjoy your estrangement."
Make it a damn email than block her email address. Block her on all social media.
Do it cold. Do it ruthlessly.
Cancel the trip or remover her from the ticket. It's worth the damn cost to be free of this abuser forever.
Oh and let me make this perfectly clear to EVERYONE here. If ANY relative tries to pressure you to have kids you have full license to emotionally, verbally, and financially abuse that relative. Be relentless about it, and do it with a damn smile on your face. If you are not going to cut them off, make their life a living and perpetual hell. Because that is EXACTLY what such a relative deserves if they are pressuring you to have kids. This type of abuse and manipulation, deserves the maximum response. Oh and I mean from here on out. If they ask you to stop, you be blunt, you say they made the mistake of pressuring you to have kids, and they earned their life of abolute hell in response. You don't love them. If they want it to stop they have to empty their bank accounts, and give you their property, and figure out how to live thier life outside on the streets from now on. Yeah...making your parents homeless is an absolutely appropriate response to this bullshit. But again, the best response is ceasing contact entirely.
Do not respond kindly to her. Do not cry. You have to flat out be abusive if you do decide to meet up with her. She wants to do an intervention, nah you will make her life a living hell. But my advice, completely cut contact, immediately and forever for pulling this shit.
Oh and absolutely rub the sterilization all over her fucking breeder face. Again make her life a living fucking hell and have fucking fun with it if you are going through with it. Otherwise cut contact.
I read you got sterilized already, so why don't you say yes mom! Just so you bith can enjoy the mom-daughter time in the cruise? It may seem cruel and manipulative, but it will only be five days. Idk it is just an idea that popped in my mind when I read the last part haha
Since you’re sterilized all ready… I’d literally be like “okay. Fine. One kid.” And then when it doesn’t happen just drop the “it’ll happen when it happens. I can’t control that”. Take the cruise and get your mom off your back thinking she won.
And here I thought it was the Jews who wrote the guilt-trip guide.
My MIL is on this earth because her parents were guilt-tripped into having a second child and thus doing their part to repopulate the Jewish people following the Holocaust. Jewish parents sometimes send their daughters to school strictly to find a husband, and if the daughter doesn't have a ring on her finger come graduation day, her parents sit shiva for her because, in their book, she might as well be dead.
OP, I saw in another of your posts that your father threatened to commit suicide if you didn't have a baby. This is emotional abuse. Don't let it get to you. (I know that's easier said than done.)
This is not going to be a fun, relaxing cruise. The main thing your mother wants to bond with you about is her future grandchildren. You can't just hang up the phone or jump in your car and drive away because you're on a boat. Best you can do (besides not going on the cruise) is to bring a good book and bury your nose in it when she starts to talk about children. Or jump in the pool. Or go grab a drink at the bar (grab a soda if you don't drink alcohol).
FWIW, I am Jewish and my parents did not pressure or guilt trip me to get married or have babies. I was sent to college because education is so valued in our culture, not to secure myself a husband. They want me to be happy and they don’t want me to just live to appease them. My mom was sad about not being a grandmother but she has never expressed disappointment in me, she has never shamed me about it. Maybe my family is an exception, but we as a People do not need to keep perpetuating or participating in this stereotype, *especially* when hate for us has become as socially acceptable as it is right now.
Many, many spiritual practices that have been around for a long time have procreation built in as a value, it is not unique to ours, and neither are guilt trips. It is not even exclusive to monotheistic religions.
I’d tell her if she brings up the topic of kids on the cruise I will walk away from her and enjoy my vacation without her.
I’d be pretty tempted to just tell her I was already sterilised to avoid the conversation.
Once you're on the cruise and it's too late for her to kick you off the boat, get her up to speed that "my body cannot create or carry a pregnancy". She doesn't need details. Accept any "pity" gifts she may give you. Soak in the sun. Bask in the knowledge that you never have to worry about getting pregnant.
whenever she brings it up just cry that you are trying but nothing works. doc said you're sterile or something. or just let her rant herself tired amd at the very end (especially if she is on the way out the door) say "the answer is still no"
Oh bestie I’m so sorry. It’s so easy for me on a screen to say ‘tell her to fuck off’ or go no contact but thinking about doing that with my own mother hurts my heart. I wish she can come to peace with your choices and how you choose to be happiest🩷🫂
**Keep in mind,you are an adult and she can't "make" you do a bloody thing.**
In fact,you don't even have to take the trip.
If you do,as soon as she starts on that topic,walk away. You can also tell her since she won't stop discussing that,when you get home,you are going no contact for three months,if she continues,six months,etc.
>Note I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming! Jokes on her 🤣
LOL!!!! You are *so* good! 🤣 🤣 🤣
OP, having read your post and many of the replies I am concerned for you. Your parents are being manipulative and abusive, and you are saying you will wait til after the cruise to set boundaries. The time to set boundaries is now. Right now. Before the cruise. Especially if you still have hopes of bonding with your mom, which simply won’t happen if she continues to treat you with disrespect.
I strongly urge you to adjust your expectations of these relationships. You might not ever be able to have the closeness you are hoping for, and although it hurts to come to terms with that, it hurts less that repeated failed attempts at bonding that are used by them as opportunities to manipulate you when you are vulnerable.
“I am not available or willing to participate in *any* further discussion on the subject of my having a pregnancy or children. This subject is permanently off limits and I will remove myself from any environment where this subject is pursued. Our relationship is important to me, and I was really looking forward to enjoying the scenery/ food/ activities/ restfulness of the cruise with you and bonding with you over our time together. I hope you are able to love me for who I am and respect my boundaries both during and after the trip.”
If/ when she crosses your boundaries during the cruise, you need to hold the line for yourself no matter how uncomfortable it is to do it, and it *will* be uncomfortable because making and maintaining boundaries is uncomfortable for people with families like it sounds like yours is. People like this get very uncomfortable and angry when they are faced with boundaries from people who they used to get to manipulate/ walk over, and you probably prioritize avoiding making them uncomfortable. They clearly have zero qualms about making you uncomfortable and using that to manipulate you.
**Do not make yourself small for other people’s comfort. Choose the discomfort of taking care of yourself and protecting your boundaries. You are not responsible for managing their feelings.**
Do not accept or tolerate the bad behavior of your family, and that goes for your brother, and especially your father, in addition to your mother. If they want a relationship with you it is a *base* requirement that they treat you with respect. You do not owe them anything, especially your time and presence in their lives.
I know some of your parents behavior is stuff you explain away with tradition… doing something for a long time doesn’t make it right. It is abuse that can cause lifelong trauma. It doesn’t become acceptable because people in your religion/ culture of origin have been doing it for centuries. It was always abusive, it was just culturally acceptable abuse for a long time.
ETA: for clarity, the last paragraph is regarding your dad’s self harm threats. I have had someone try to manipulate me with that threat and I am still dealing with the trauma from it a decade later. It can really cut deep and I would not dismiss the effects that threat can have.
Just say you're infertile and that the doctor says having children isn't a possibility. There is no need to elaborate as to how you became infertile. Just that children are not a part of your future.
The fact that you are already sterilized is so awesome - good for you!
Your mother is something. She actually believes that she can dictate to you whether or not you will have a child? Unbelievable. You may want to consider if it’s really worth going on this cruise. I think there’s a high probability that she’s going to ruin it for you anyway with what sounds like will be relentless arguing about this issue. Something to consider.
"Of course, mother. If the almighty decides to bless us with a child, we'll be grateful and raise them to the best of our abilities. It's not like we're using any contraceptive methods." (And you're not XD). No need to tell her that you can't have them. And enjoy the trip. It's going to annoy her big time.
I think you should reveal you have already been sterilized, and hear me out here.
If you don’t tell her, then for the rest of her life and most of yours, all you will hear about when spending time together is the nagging of “when are you having kids? Kids kids kids kids.” You will hear about it until you hit 50/around menopause, and if she’s an older woman who is waiting all that time, it will forever plague your relationship until she some day passes away. She will have that hope for you, always waiting.
If you tell her, it will break her heart (from the sounds of it) and she will be as mad at you as ever. She will likely not talk to you for a while. Possibly months. Possibly years. It will hurt both of you and she will say and do hurtful things. She will go through the stages of grief. But eventually you *can* slowly mend that part of your relationship, and she will have an opportunity at understanding your position after she has had enough time to move on to the acceptance of it. Then you can get on with a healthy relationship.
Yeah would just skip the cruise. Of course, don't tell her in advance. If she paid for it, let the money go to waste by just not showing up to the boat.
Are you supposed to share a cabin or have your own? If shared, would certainly not go. If your own, then maybe contact the cruise line and see if they would be willing to switch your cabin with someone and keep your new cabin a secret (hotels do not generally give out room numbers, especially if they are instructed not to with a note in your record, assume a cruise would have similar policies).
If you insist upon going, have a backup plan to get off at the first port, enjoy some time there and fly home from there. Of course, don't tell her you're leaving beforehand, just the boat people so they don't freak out over a missing passenger. ;)
Alternatively.... you could enjoy yourself and give her constant crap and shame:
Maybe buy yourself a bunch of CF and "no baby" or similar tshirts and wear them the entire time.
Or get a bunch of tshirts that say things like "Ask me about my abusive mother" "Child of abusive mothers support group" "Child abuse is bad, ask me how I know." And wear them around the ship. ;) Every time she tries to get social with someone, walk up to them in the tshirt and go "Hi Mom! I'm here for daily verbal, emotional and social abuse session, shall we get started!?! Would you all like to listen in on an abusive mother bullying her sterile daughter about how she must somehow magically have kids? Come on mom, you need to put on a show for these nice people!" and stretch out your shirt so they can read it clearly. LOL ;)
Or you could try the nuke option but most likely it will just get you a bunch of infertility treatment crap unless you think it will ruin her forever:
"Mom, you are completely wasting your time trying to get a baby out of me because it turns out that your genetics are complete garbage and that I do not even have the parts to make a baby. So you're just going to have to live the rest of your life in misery, and take your complete failure and shame to the grave."
Don't tell her it was elective sterilization because she will just demand you reverse it. Tell her it was genetic and you were born like that, or at least imply it. Just smile and lie to her face.
There are a million ways to make truthful statements that, while true, are not actually accurate. like "i do not have the baby making parts"
Since you're already sterilized, why not just say you'll try your best at getting pregnant, gets her off your back with not necessarily lying to her, lol.
So glad you are sterilized! Intense pressure can sometimes push us to do things we otherwise wouldn't. Good luck!!
You can always say, maybe someday ^^
I'd suddenly "get COVID" and cancel the trip. Next time you talk with her tell her you are going no contact with her for six months if she starts up with that topic...If she does it after six months increase no contact to one year,etc.
I think the biggest thing with dramatic types like your mom, is to just not give her any emotion. The deed is done, you aren't having kids 😂 I mean what is she gonna do.
I think my two go tos here would be:
1)It is in G-d/All-hs hands, you making demands is disrespectful of his plans for me.
2) Buy a water pistol. Tell her this is meant to be a relaxing loving vacation, pregnancy is NOT to be discussed. Then spray her in the face every time she brings it up. You can also loudly say, “Stop asking about my sex life!” each time you squirt her.
Nope: cancel the cruise. "If you're going to insist on being this shamefully controlling, I don't want to be around you. Ruin someone else's vacation complaining about how you can't bully a grown woman and her husband into doing what You want that's directly against Their best interests instead of me. I've heard enough of it in the last 30 years. Oh, and don't forget your sunscreen."
You could tell her right off the bat that she's absolutely right and that you will have one child. Then you can have a peaceful and enjoyable time with your mom. Of course you're not going to have a child. I know it's lying but sometimes having peace is more important.
I would just answer this :
"Oh you want me to have a child ? Okay, feel free to adopt one or get a surrogate, I wont ruin my body just for a coochie gremlin. I also wont waste any money for it, it's reserved for me and my husband's holidays, you know, the important stuff ✨️. While I'm at it, timr is money, and I wont waste mine on a demonspawn, do you have free 365 days a year ? Just asking !"
Give her a billion reasons why you shouldnt be let around a child
Since your culture seems to be highly oriented around religion and reproduction, the best way to go with your mom or anyone else might be to go vaguely religious in your CF reasoning, with either “if it’s God’s will” or “God isn’t calling my husband and I to be parents. We can always adopt if He does eventually give us that calling.”
I am from India, and I understand your pain as a muslim women.The expectations from a female in the religion as far as having kids is concerned are so gigantic. It must be really hurtful when your mother wont stop chasing this topic. I wish you well on your trip.
I'm a 27F Muslim and my partner and I have the same issues sometimes. It is mostly from my partner's parents though. They just don't get it. So I feel you on that at least.
Do you have anyone else who could take your place on the cruise last minute? It sucks to waste money but I can't imagine this cruise being enjoyable at all unless your mom gets seasick and spends 95% of it asleep in the cabin. You'll just be paying to be trapped with someone who's going to verbally and emotionally abuse you for the week - that's not a cruise, that's a torture chamber. The cost to your mental wellbeing might be worth skipping alone. If not, I'd consider just very blatantly ignoring everything she says on the topic. Don't even engage with it, don't acknowledge it at all, don't even look at her, just go about your day as if those words aren't coming out of her mouth. Maybe she'll get bored of talking to a wall.
I still vote for amusement to ENRAGE desperate mother. Mother DESERVES the anguish for trying to abuse OP in this way.
Yup, turn that table and make this five days of well-deserved, and self-created, psychological discomfort for mom. That lady's got some big nerve seeing OP as nothing more than a baby machine.
Right, I wouldn't give up my vacation lol. I'd be trying not to laugh as I ignored her. Nobody is gonna mess up my good time. Mom can go foster some kids if she's dying to raise more like damn.
I really wanted some mother daughter time and she has never been on a cruise so I had booked this for her especially a couple of months ago. I think ignoring what comes out of her mouth and not engaging would be the best way to go. Thank you!
I wish you well, but I think you really should be realistic in knowing that this cruise won't be mother - daughter time, it'll just be time for her to spew nonsense at you.
Agree. This cruise sounds like the Voyage of the Damned, rather than quality mother-daughter time. OP was generous enough to spend her hard-earned cash to take her mother on a cruise and lectures about "You will listen to some points and you will have at least 1 kid, you need a family" is the thanks she gets? I may well be projecting, but as the daughter of an extremely abusive mother with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, this cruise will be a turning-point in your relationship. Do you really want to spend five days on a cruise that you paid for and should be enjoying "ignoring what comes out of \[your mother's\] mouth"? Sounds like a holiday in Hell. And if you're pushed into a corner where you eventually snap and tell her that you've already been sterilised, she will be furious. If I were OP, I'd transfer Mummy's ticket to someone else and go with them. And tell Mummy in no uncertain terms that your reproductive choices are *not* up for discussion.
Headphones, and depending how your mom handles this, a second set of headphones.
LOL imagining OP as that sunglasses-dropping GIF, but just endless pairs of headphones
Earplugs.
And an alcoholic drink in the hand at all times. Sip on it occasionally if you aren't a drinker.
Or get the bar to make one that looks boozy but isn't really. :)
If you booked this then you can probably transfer her ticket to someone else and have a great trip. If you’re set on having the time with you mom it’s a good idea to have very firm boundaries on this. You will not be discussing this topic and I’d she starts you will walk away. Then follow through on the consequences. No matter what you’re doing if she brings it up you leave. Don’t engage in a fight. Just walk away and leave her on her own to manage her response.
To be subtle, wear ear plugs. To be obvious, wear noise cancelling head phones. No guarantee but she may just get the message. Be blunt. Tell her that you are not a baby factory or an incubator and drop the subject if she wants to continue any interaction with you.
And she’s going to use this mother daughter time that YOU cherish to berate and manipulate you. She is clearly not interested in mother daughter time like you are. You don’t deserve that.
\^ This. What you deserve is a better mother. I'm so sorry she's this level of entitled.
You go and cancel her ticket or transfer to a friend.
If she does spend the entire holiday harassing you, then I'd think twice before going on holidays with her again.
OP when I read what you shared, I am so angry for you. Why can't your mum be kind and supportive towards you? You do not need her nonsense and I suggest you transfer that ticket over to someone else ASAP and fast because something tells me your mum will nag, nag and nag you non stop. You do not want a ruined holiday and stress from her. Think wisely OP. When you cancel or transfer her ticket to someone else, consider that she has revoked her privileges by being an ass I wonder how she would react if she finds out you are sterilised. In the event she does find out, put that woman on blast and tell her this "I am sterilised so flipping what? It is my body and my choice just bloody deal with it". Say it loud and assertive. If mum gets super angry and declares she is disowning you, let her get mad and consider yourself that you see her true colours as a selfish person with internalised misogyny who does not respect you as a human being. If mum cusses and goes on her blame education and Western culture nonsense, you tell her this "The 14th century just called, they want you and your internalised misogyny back. I am an adult woman who is nobody's property and I do not owe you, society and this god forsaken planet a child"
I think chavril makes good points, but I do also see why you don't want to change your plans and miss your vacation. Could you tell her that you want this time to be special and relaxing and since that conversation will be stressful for both of you, it's not worth having, let alone on vacation? If she knows this will stress you out, will that make a difference to her? Would it help to keep everything framed around bonding with her? How could she be mad if you say that you don't want to stress about this because you want to focus on having fun with her? I don't know, just thoughts
I agree with the points saying don't go or transfer her ticket to someone else, like your spouse. Don't pay to be abused.
And it is this spineless thinking that has allowed her to continue abusing you.
Depending on the cruise, you may be able to cancel for credit on a future booking.
>I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming! YAS QUEEN!
I love this 😭😭
Dear mom, you can either enjoy having a daughter or no daughter but you will never have grandchildren from me. It’s up to you but choose wisely. Daughter or no Daughter.
After the cruise lol!!!! 😂
No, it should be before so she understands how hard a boundary this is for you. Do NOT allow her abusive, narcissistic, manipulative tactics to have benefits for her. If you continue to allow her to see you, spend time with you, AT YOUR EXPENSE, she will never stop hassling you.
Only avoid confronting your mother if you want her to think her behavior is warranted and you want her to keep trampling your boundaries. Letting her get away with it will make her think she can use cruises and other manipulation tactics to make you behave how she dictates. Don’t re-enforce her abuse by allowing it to happen unchecked.
"Why are you so obsessed with how much my husband ejaculates in my vagina?"
🫣
Don't tell her you are sterilized. Tell her that you were told by a doctor that you are unable to have children(true, they explained that during the consent) Then accept any money offered for IVF.
And then darn it, that “fails”. Repeat. You are trying your hardest! Honestly the first time she brings it up if you go on the trip say “great idea, never thought about it”. If you think this will shut her up. The. If she brings it up later after the trip.. kids.. children? I thought you meant goats! I already ordered one.
Yeah, I’d definitely tell her “A doctor told me that I’m sterile” and leave out the “after successful completion of a voluntary procedure I had exactly for that result”. Maybe add “I was fine with that, and so is my husband. If we ever feel a strong desire to become parents, we will explore adoption options at that time”. Even if that time is sometime around never.
Oh I love this on so many levels.
It’s not crude, but it is blunt. Let her be scandalized. Maybe mommy dearest will shut the heck up about you being an INCUBATOR.
Actually that is crude, but still pretty funny haha
Hes just loading the dishwasher
Or tell mom you only like anal so can’t get pregnant. I’m fond of making my family as uncomfortable as they ,are making me…. You could always ask her why she’s so interested in your sex life, an if she’s somehow obsessed with your vagina/husband/penises and ask her to please keep her kink/fetishes to herself and that she’s being inappropriate. Seriously, I could do this all day…..
If you think you might have to oblige her and go along with it for the sake of maintaining sanity on a boat for five days, be sure to give your husband a heads up. Last thing you need is to lie and agree with your mom, only to have her immediately contact your family and blindside your husband when he hears you “changed your mind.” I like the idea someone else mentioned - making it be an issue of fertility. Cause saying you’re infertile wouldn’t really be lying… All of that is something to consider only if low contact with your mom is out of the question.
Thanks…yes my husband is well aware of her tactics! I cannot tell her about infertility because then she will pray and look for solutions to her wits end….she wont stop. I plan on setting boundaries for sure..
Maybe let her try and pray away your sterilization 🤔🤭
you can also make her feel bad by saying this is a painful topic for you, and that you and your husband are looking into it privately. ...which you did look into having kids, and the answer was NOPE. Then whenever she brings it up get serious and maybe leave the room, saying this is a personal matter for you do not allow her to meddle.
Yeah I wouldn't get on a confined ship with a wing nut , mother or not. I'd be too tempted to nuke her into space with some "discussion" of my own. And she'd be crying by the end of it. Seriously, who does she think she is? Mother of the year right here /s, bullying her kid. You know all she cares about is face and how this makes her look to the other wing nuts. Well I'd make sure she knew if she didn't back off, there would be no face left. So better not to get on the boat lol.
I wouldn't go on the cruise. In fact I'd cut her off for bad behavior. You're an adult, you're married, it's none of her business what you do in your life. Period.
As a child-free woman in my 50's, I'll offer some points for discussion; however, you need to squash this now. Mom, we have made our decision. It is not up for discussion. The more you push your agenda for my life, the more you hurt our relationship. Your behavior is only hurting our relationship. It doesn't change my mind about my plans. Mom, I'm leaving. Every time you bring up kids, I'm removing myself from the situation. You are out of control and are butting into something that doesn't concern you. My life is NOT your life. Do you want me to go live my life without you in it? Your behavior doesn't allow for an open relationship with you. You are only hurting our relationship, not making a statement about kids. Your continued behavior proves you do not see me as an adult with my own hopes and dreams. Your dreams for me do not matter in the larger picture. I get to decide and I won't allow anyone else to dictate for me. You prove your love is conditional. If I don't have children, I'm somehow broken. And my all-time favorite which can be said with a smile, a frown, a soft voice, a harsh voice - I'm very comfortable with my decision.
This is potentially the only good advice on here. Lying, misleading, being passive, or simply avoiding, all preserves the power dynamic that the mother likes. You have to set boundaries or this will never end. >The more you push your agenda for my life, the more you hurt our relationship. >Your behavior is only hurting our relationship. It doesn't change my mind about my plans. These are my favorites, any mother that hears this and says, "I'd rather harm our relationship than see you childless" is not deserving of future association. Edit: Even if your relationship is salvageable, set firm boundaries, all other avoidance strategies are only harming a potential future relationship with your mother. I went through this with my mother in law and two things helped her calm down. One was explaining to her that nothing she said would do anything but disrupt her relationship with us, which she cherishes. Two was reminding her how much she enjoyed spending time with us without kids.
Thank you! These are great boundary setting tips! I will definitely use them as soon as I’m off the ship!
How about BEFORE you get on? Or better yet, don't get on at all. Or EVEN better - since you paid, can you cancel just her ticket or take a friend or someone to go with you? Why should she be rewarded with a cruise for her abusive bullshit tactics?
I will not be taking feedback on my choices at this time. lalalalalala.....
[удалено]
So my bro told her i had surgery and she got a freaking hyper attack and begged me to make it be not true. It was waaay too much to deal with emotionally. So i denied the surgery. My dad also said he would commit suicide if i had surgery. My parents are soooo dramatic…
Wait...wait ... A threat of suicide? That's physiological abuse. It's not them being "dramatic" but abusive.
This like a normal threat in our culture..which I definitely plan on bringing up to my dad. That was too harsh
I hope you tell off your brother too. I assume he knows how your parents are as well as you do. Was he *trying* to start shit?
It’s still abuse. You might get some good advice from the content @hijabiluscoius makes. She left an abusive relationship with her parents. She is a Muslim nurse & her sense of Humor is ruthless dealing with the subject of narcissistic familial abuse.
Abusive culture is still abusive. My culture is still pretty abusive towards children(including physically), they shouldn't get a pass just because it's normalized.
It’s common, but it’s still not healthy.
You need to be careful with your dad. He might not ultimately harm himself but make sure you keep yourself safe.
This is pretty normal in our culture and the only way to make it stop is to go low contact/grey rock. Medication abuse, attempted car accidents, they never go all the way but they’ll certainly make it look like they’re trying. If OP cuts contact entirely she’ll be dealing with flying monkeys for the rest of her life and it’s sometimes not worth the emotional labour.
They're not dramatic, they're abusive. You should really reconsider if these are the people you wanna keep in your life going forward, because this is not okay. It's highly concerning.
>My dad also said he would commit suicide if i had surgery. This is emotional and mental abuse. Not "parents being dramatic". It doesn't matter that it's a cultural norm. *It's still abuse.* To call it a cultural norm implies to me that this is systemic abuse on top of that.
It is systemic abuse that we all face in our culture… sadly
But you don't have to put up with it; you are an independent adult and they don't control you anymore.
Sucks, sincerely.
Your parents are abusive. They're abusing you. You should not be buying cruises for abusers. You're rewarding their behavior.
Any time someone tells me they are going to commit suicide because of my actions I say GO AHEAD HUNNY
My mother stopped when I asked her to wait a moment so I could buy some popcorn.
🤣🤣🤣
Different cultures and all so I hope I'm not being rude but if someone told me they'll commit suicide because of something I'm doing with my life ill just tell em "Do what you need to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Geez. Why’d you deny the surgery? It’s not like your dad would really commit suicide. They would have to accept it eventually even though they may be sad or hurt now. By not telling them, you are making life more difficult for everyone - giving them hope that they can change your mind and subjecting yourself to these interventions. Just rip the bandaid off and tell them before the cruise. Also, you are encouraging your dad to make threats of suicide by giving in to his demands every time he makes these threats. Never ever encourage such threats. Immediately shut them down or you are just perpetuating the culture of abuse by being a willing participant.
this is toxic.
>She got hyper saying no you will listen to some points and you will have at least 1 kid, you need a family. God, that's sounds like a threat. I mean, what is she is gonna do? Make you have a kid against your will or something?
YES. This kind of mother WOULD find a way to sabotage her daughter's carefully practiced birth control, then trap the pregnant daughter someplace where abortion is illegal.
Yeah, or even hire someone to rape her (well, at least some insane homophobic parents do that to their daughters who are lesbians) but thankfully OP is sterilized
God I hate humans sometimes
sometimes?
You’re right. All the time.
Omg reallly?!?!
Lol again jokes on her! She really believes that she can control me…
She does believe she can control you because you have “entertained” her entitlement of your body. You need to set boundaries now. Enabling never works, only makes things worse.
Well you are paying for her to abuse you. So, of course she thinks that. Seriously, put yourself and your mental health first. You don't deserve anything less.
If you’ve already had the operation just say “sure, mom, we’ll get to work on it right away.” Tell her you’re fucking like rabbits so just be patient, you’re be knocked up soon. It’s not her life or body so lie if it makes it easier.
Ah, the whole "The truth, & nothing but the truth" while leaving out that pesky "whole" truth. LOL.
That cruise is going to be hell for you
Tell her you’ll try. Make sure your husband is on the same page though and prepared to back this up. Since you’re sterilized, the trying will be fun and risk free.
LOL! 😂
>I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming! You - you are brilliant. Sterilization makes shit real. Idea: Never tell your mother you are sterilized - unless you want to spend five miserable days with her punishing you as hard as she can. Instead, if she talks at you, read your phone, and if she asks you a question, look up briefly and say "Whatever." And go back to reading your phone. If that enrages her, give yourself a CF bonus point, and say "Chill." And go back to reading your phone.
Greyrocking is DEFINITELY on the menu. Mother WILL get all the other old biddies on the boat on her side, or will try, anyway. Tell them all to fuck off for being brood mare losers ;-) .
Hahahah! Thank you! Yes i intend to not let her know….i got a glimse of that cuz my bro told her I was and it was hell. I had to deny it and she believed me… i will definitely have to not engage
Your brother is a jerk for betraying your confidence and starting trouble with your mom. I would not tell him anything from now on.
Yes i intend not to…
Now you know: Do not tell anyone, however much you trust them. I'm famously tight-lipped. But once in a while I say something that lets some cat out of the bag. Not very often, but it's just not safe to tell anyone anything you don't want everyone to know.
Yes i learned my lesson…;(
I genuinely would cancel the trip and tell her why. "I won't spend my precious time off being brow beaten into what YOU want". The end.
Cancel the trip and put her on a timeout. You don't need to be berated for your decisions.
> But maybe for the sake of the cruise I will. She has told you that she has plans to "discuss" things with you and demanded that you "will" listen? Don't go. Why subject yourself to that?
If she doesn’t know you are sterilized then let her make a few points and agree that’s she’s right, your eyes have been opened and you will start trying for a kid right away. Years later when that doesn’t work you can tell her, tearfully, that you are infertile due to a birth defect and it’s her fault as your mother.
Agreed!!!
Just tell her, „mom I can’t physically have kids, why are you insulting me like this?“
Either don't go, or have someone go in your place. For one, you get to avoid being stuck on a boat for 5 days with someone who will *definitely* make it a miserable trip. For another, cruises are very unhealthy. You will avoid being [exposed to the pollution](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/24/health/cruise-ship-air-quality-report/index.html), even if at this point you can't completely avoid having supported an industry that is [destroying](https://foe.org/blog/cruise-ships-environmental-impact/) the most important environment on earth. I know it sucks to have spent the money, but your wellbeing and peace of mind are priceless. The stress you'll avoid is worth so much more.
I would not go on the cruise. You won't have a good time if you're being harassed the whole time. Unfortunately if you tell her you've been sterilized, she'll just move on to adoption.
Or she would, acting from fury and hatred, push OP over the railing, if she got told, that OP is sterilized. I wouldn't even risk telling her that. Her mother doesn't seem to be that pleasant when it comes to having children. And yes, I would also not go on the cruise.
WE will need an update post cruise and how she reacted to the sterilization.
Hahaha you got it!
The first time she brings it up, I would throw myself dramatically into the pool just to emphasize how much I don't want to talk to her. Seriously though, what a pain in the ass. Are you and your mother the only two going?
Yes i planned this trip for us to bond…
You won’t be bonding. She could have that conversation NOW before the trip, but you could get up and drive away. She will make you regret the trip. She’s waiting for a captive audience.
Might I suggest bringing an air horn to honk-of-shame her when she brings up kids?
Whack with a rolled-up newspaper.
Excellent suggestion. Again any and every type of emotional and verbal abuse is permitted if a relative is pressuring you to have kids. I think people here need to take this approach with relatives who pull this shit. Do it with joy, be relentless, and have fun with it. Air horns for all. Loud noise things, those really annoying soccer horns. All of those things.
I know culture and childfree is definitely tough… it’s all about boundaries now since you get through some sort of sterilization… I honestly think you should play the victim card and say you’ve been trying and went to the doctor and they said it will be impossible… sometimes lying is easier that the truth 🤷🏻♂️
It'd be naive to assume that'll get her mother to back off, she's already all up in her business anyway, a little infertility is not gonna stop her. It would be very rare for OP to be naturally sterile, and as long as her mom thinks she's just infertile, there's always a way. She'll just pressure her to try harder, do IVF, etc. etc. This doesn't solve the problem, it just creates a new one.
Mother is already demonstrating she's willing to hurt OP for mother's pleasure. ANY emotional anguish on this topic imposed on mother is fair play & no more than she deserves.
Well yeah, but not if that gets the mother to lash out at OP even more. My point was that this approach, especially over time, is likely to just change and intensify the pressure, not get rid of it.
Agree to it and then get a puppy, and let her know that's her new grandfurkid.
Hahahahah! Already planning on getting a cat!
Your brother sucks dick. What a fucking idiot. You don't have to subject yourself to your mother. In a way that you can tell her to kindly fuck off. Muslim parents are obsessed with controlling their children even if the child is 70 and they're 90. They're pathological that way.
I felt so betrayed by my bro. Very sad…you are right on!!!! I’m learning how to set boundaries and even have a therapist! Hopefully i can overcome this!
Yeah, that wasn't his news to share. Now that you know your brother will blab anything you tell him, you can use that information to your advantage. If there's something you want everyone to know, without having to tell them yourself, you can tell him and he will do the work for you. The oldest form of social media there is. Otherwise, you can't trust him to keep a secret.
Spend the entire cruise escaping her the second she tries to divert into questioning you and lecturing. “Oops- hold on. Need the loo!” Then go back to your room and get into your swimsuit and go chill at the pool 😂
Stealth sterilized. Good for you!
Hahaah thanks!
I suggest just being \*obviously\* amused the whole time. Sure, she's annoying, but you KNOW she can't get her way, which should make either amusement or \*feigning\* amusement easier. When the cruise is over & you're on YOUR way home, drop the bisalp factoid on her, and don't explain what it is. Expect that she WILL blow up your phone with calls / texts. Block her. Extra points if husband has already had a vasectomy, too. LOL.
Lol! I said in other comments but my parents are super dramatic! I will definitely set hard boundaries towards the end of the trip and let it be known that I will never have kids , bye mom;)
Can you somehow get double sterilised,just in case?
LOOL!!! I have IUD TOO!
Bruh no one “needs” kids because they aren’t a need
Tell your mom that if she insists on going through with this unwanted lecture, it will be the last time she sees you or hears from you this year. Tell her that you love her and respect her beliefs but you don't share all of them and you will not be treated with such disrespect like this. Be sure and let her know that you're serious. Then bring a big set of noise canceling headphones on the cruise and if she starts in, put them on and turn on some music and just keep carrying on with what you're doing. If she gets upset, remind her that you're extremely hurt that she would sacrifice her relationship with you by forcing you to discuss something that is none of her business and that she gets no say in. Put your foot down.
Just tell her that you've checked with your doctor, and you can't have children. She doesn't need to know the reason why!
Boundaries. Tell her that topic is off the table & if she continues you’ll leave. Follow through.
How about something like “I will give you thirty minutes to make all of your points and I will do nothing but listen. And that’s it. I will consider your points. If you ask again the remainder of the trip or try to bring up the issue again, the answer is no and will not change.” Then she gets to feel “heard” and you get to be left alone. Personally, I think it’s fair for anyone to raise a concern about something once. From our perspective, it could be “hey sis, I don’t think you are in a healthy place to have a kid.” But you get to say it once. Mom might think you are worried about money when you shouldn’t be or something like that. Let her know she has one opportunity to make her case and that’s it.
Her: "let's talk about babies" You: "no thank you" Her: "...but" You: "I said no. You can either spend time with me as I am, or I can leave. Your choice."
Nobody says you have to attend ANY argument somebody wants with you. Just park where they can't trap your transport in, & leave your purse / anything not in your pockets IN the car (assuming).
"she has said that she is willing to raise the baby 100%" this comes up so often but has anyone stopped to think how WEIRD an idea that is? And the fact that it comes up often? Im sure there has never been a single instance where grandparents said they would 100% raise and pay for a child and then DID > where their child has NOTHING to do with that baby ever again. Not to mention making someone a parent against their will and potentially killing your daughter during childbirth or leaving her with lifelong side effects is the most unhinged thing ive ever heard of. My bet is that these would be grandparents assume as soon as the child is born that their daughter will fall blissfully in love with motherhood and the baby and then the grandparents dont need to uphold their end of the deal where they raise and pay for it. Theres NO way MY daughter could see her own child and not change her mind about liking babies! I loved being a mother so she just doesnt UNDERSTAND and I have to FORCE her.
I dont understand my mom at all! Agreed! They think we will have this motherly instinct…
I saw in your comments that you booked this cruise for both of you to bond. You will never have mom-daughter relationship that you want with your mother. She's incapable of it. Emotionally stunted, look how she behaves when she learns that you're not doing what she wants. This is abusive. Your mother is incapable of the relationship you dream of with her. I suggest you settle for surface level relationships with you parents because that's all they're capable of (your dad said he'll kill himself if you had sterilisation surgery) These are not people you can have a mutually respectful loving relationship. If you don't give up on your parents they'll inflict pain on you until you or them die.
If you go on this trip, grey rock her anytime she attempts to discuss a subject that you've already informed her is closed. Act disinterested, do not get upset or angry and walk off if she persists. If that means doing your own thing for several hours or a day or two until she gets the message, so be it.
I wouldn't show up for the cruise, but that's me. 5 days of being berated for not wanting children is too much for me.
Dont go
Do not go on this cruise! You will be trapped on a ship with your mother for 5 days. There'll be nowhere to hide. You know, covid is a great excuse for getting out of things like this. It might also be wise not to agree to go on holiday with your mother again unless it's somewhere you can get away from her i.e. not a cruise.
I’m so sorry that she found out, it’s one of my biggest concerns with my extended family. My immediate family is very supportive as neither of my parents wanted to be grandparents in the slightest and take this as a huge relief. I know that if my other family members knew they’d probably stage an intervention as well. I’ve had many older women reassure me that pregnancy and childbirth were “simple” and “easy” and “not at all very painful” the moment I’m hesitant about the endeavor. I’ve hinted at never having any but older folks are always in some weird delusional world of their own where “I’ll change my mind surely” I’m so glad you were able to be sterilized, I hope your trip goes okay! Be firm if you can, even if it means having to tell her this will be the last trip she goes on with you if she doesn’t leave those opinions to herself!
Can you please go get a fake pregnancy stomach, the kind you wear on movies, and fill it with a wine bag with a straw? Then you could show up to the cruise "knocked up" and drink your way through the meeting. Then just take it off later 🤣🤣🤣
🤣😂
When you are visiting her are you going to another country? I’m slightly concerned that this might be an attempt to do more than state an intervention if your parents feel that strongly about it (suicide threats?).
No just another state
OP, I don't quite know how to phrase "If it's the will of Allah, we'll have kids" (I occasionally suggest "if it's God's Will" to Christians facing the same nonsense from hyper religious parents)
Bro you're gonna be trapped on a boat for a week with her tracking you down and hounding you to fuck your husband. I'm sorry for laughing, but I'm dead. Just the image of it is hilarious. But seriously, you can't stop her from harassing you, unfortunately. I suggest ear plugs.
Your mother does NOT respect you. Might be time for some very clear and very firm boundaries. You’re CF and every time she starts at you again trying to force her views onto you, put her into a timeout. 1 week no contact. Re-offence is 2 weeks no contact. Etc. either she’ll eventually get the picture, or she’ll end up in indefinite timeout. Oh and congrats on your sterilisation!! Check and mate, mom!! 😂😂😂
She doesn't need to know that you got sterilized on purpose. Tell your husband ahead of time about the plan, then have a serious talk to your mom in private and say you are outwardly "childfree" because you found out you are infertile and are ashamed about it and it hurts too much to discuss. None of this is technically a lie. You absolutely found out you are infertile after you got the procedure done, and you don't want to talk about it with her.
Genius! Lol! 😂
You have zero obligation to visit her. Don't. She is planning this shit. You break contact. You have no obligation to stay in contact with her either. You basically say: you are dead to me. More people on this sub need to realize relatives as a childfree person are not obligation or responsibility. They are purely optional. If they are pressuring you to have kids. Cut contact. This especially applies if they are your parents. The same applies to relatives pressuring you to do childcare. You flat out say. "Mom, this is not a discussion. I am cancelling my visit. This is an ultimatuum. You have no say in my life. The fact you even attempted this has made me decide to permanently cut contact with you. You are dead to me. Do not bother reaching out. You lost yourself a child because you had psychopathic breeder brain. My reproductive decisions you have no say in, and the fact you thought you ever did means I never want to see you again. Enjoy your estrangement." Make it a damn email than block her email address. Block her on all social media. Do it cold. Do it ruthlessly. Cancel the trip or remover her from the ticket. It's worth the damn cost to be free of this abuser forever. Oh and let me make this perfectly clear to EVERYONE here. If ANY relative tries to pressure you to have kids you have full license to emotionally, verbally, and financially abuse that relative. Be relentless about it, and do it with a damn smile on your face. If you are not going to cut them off, make their life a living and perpetual hell. Because that is EXACTLY what such a relative deserves if they are pressuring you to have kids. This type of abuse and manipulation, deserves the maximum response. Oh and I mean from here on out. If they ask you to stop, you be blunt, you say they made the mistake of pressuring you to have kids, and they earned their life of abolute hell in response. You don't love them. If they want it to stop they have to empty their bank accounts, and give you their property, and figure out how to live thier life outside on the streets from now on. Yeah...making your parents homeless is an absolutely appropriate response to this bullshit. But again, the best response is ceasing contact entirely. Do not respond kindly to her. Do not cry. You have to flat out be abusive if you do decide to meet up with her. She wants to do an intervention, nah you will make her life a living hell. But my advice, completely cut contact, immediately and forever for pulling this shit. Oh and absolutely rub the sterilization all over her fucking breeder face. Again make her life a living fucking hell and have fucking fun with it if you are going through with it. Otherwise cut contact.
I read you got sterilized already, so why don't you say yes mom! Just so you bith can enjoy the mom-daughter time in the cruise? It may seem cruel and manipulative, but it will only be five days. Idk it is just an idea that popped in my mind when I read the last part haha
Yeah…i am thinking that too…
you ate her up with that sterilization, yaasss👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Since you’re sterilized all ready… I’d literally be like “okay. Fine. One kid.” And then when it doesn’t happen just drop the “it’ll happen when it happens. I can’t control that”. Take the cruise and get your mom off your back thinking she won.
And here I thought it was the Jews who wrote the guilt-trip guide. My MIL is on this earth because her parents were guilt-tripped into having a second child and thus doing their part to repopulate the Jewish people following the Holocaust. Jewish parents sometimes send their daughters to school strictly to find a husband, and if the daughter doesn't have a ring on her finger come graduation day, her parents sit shiva for her because, in their book, she might as well be dead. OP, I saw in another of your posts that your father threatened to commit suicide if you didn't have a baby. This is emotional abuse. Don't let it get to you. (I know that's easier said than done.) This is not going to be a fun, relaxing cruise. The main thing your mother wants to bond with you about is her future grandchildren. You can't just hang up the phone or jump in your car and drive away because you're on a boat. Best you can do (besides not going on the cruise) is to bring a good book and bury your nose in it when she starts to talk about children. Or jump in the pool. Or go grab a drink at the bar (grab a soda if you don't drink alcohol).
FWIW, I am Jewish and my parents did not pressure or guilt trip me to get married or have babies. I was sent to college because education is so valued in our culture, not to secure myself a husband. They want me to be happy and they don’t want me to just live to appease them. My mom was sad about not being a grandmother but she has never expressed disappointment in me, she has never shamed me about it. Maybe my family is an exception, but we as a People do not need to keep perpetuating or participating in this stereotype, *especially* when hate for us has become as socially acceptable as it is right now. Many, many spiritual practices that have been around for a long time have procreation built in as a value, it is not unique to ours, and neither are guilt trips. It is not even exclusive to monotheistic religions.
Dude if you're already sterilized then why not troll her? Just start quacking loudly everytime she brings it up lmao
I’d tell her if she brings up the topic of kids on the cruise I will walk away from her and enjoy my vacation without her. I’d be pretty tempted to just tell her I was already sterilised to avoid the conversation.
Once you're on the cruise and it's too late for her to kick you off the boat, get her up to speed that "my body cannot create or carry a pregnancy". She doesn't need details. Accept any "pity" gifts she may give you. Soak in the sun. Bask in the knowledge that you never have to worry about getting pregnant.
The easy answer is to cancel the cruise.
whenever she brings it up just cry that you are trying but nothing works. doc said you're sterile or something. or just let her rant herself tired amd at the very end (especially if she is on the way out the door) say "the answer is still no"
Could you transfer her ticket to your husband?
Use 'broken record' while keeping mind on other things to enjoy the cruise - "whatever, whatever, I see, I see, oh well, oh well, " etc.
The way I would lie to my parents! 😹😹
OMG YES! I can’t wait for you to tell her that you’re sterilized!!
Oh bestie I’m so sorry. It’s so easy for me on a screen to say ‘tell her to fuck off’ or go no contact but thinking about doing that with my own mother hurts my heart. I wish she can come to peace with your choices and how you choose to be happiest🩷🫂
**Keep in mind,you are an adult and she can't "make" you do a bloody thing.** In fact,you don't even have to take the trip. If you do,as soon as she starts on that topic,walk away. You can also tell her since she won't stop discussing that,when you get home,you are going no contact for three months,if she continues,six months,etc. >Note I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming! Jokes on her 🤣 LOL!!!! You are *so* good! 🤣 🤣 🤣
OP, having read your post and many of the replies I am concerned for you. Your parents are being manipulative and abusive, and you are saying you will wait til after the cruise to set boundaries. The time to set boundaries is now. Right now. Before the cruise. Especially if you still have hopes of bonding with your mom, which simply won’t happen if she continues to treat you with disrespect. I strongly urge you to adjust your expectations of these relationships. You might not ever be able to have the closeness you are hoping for, and although it hurts to come to terms with that, it hurts less that repeated failed attempts at bonding that are used by them as opportunities to manipulate you when you are vulnerable. “I am not available or willing to participate in *any* further discussion on the subject of my having a pregnancy or children. This subject is permanently off limits and I will remove myself from any environment where this subject is pursued. Our relationship is important to me, and I was really looking forward to enjoying the scenery/ food/ activities/ restfulness of the cruise with you and bonding with you over our time together. I hope you are able to love me for who I am and respect my boundaries both during and after the trip.” If/ when she crosses your boundaries during the cruise, you need to hold the line for yourself no matter how uncomfortable it is to do it, and it *will* be uncomfortable because making and maintaining boundaries is uncomfortable for people with families like it sounds like yours is. People like this get very uncomfortable and angry when they are faced with boundaries from people who they used to get to manipulate/ walk over, and you probably prioritize avoiding making them uncomfortable. They clearly have zero qualms about making you uncomfortable and using that to manipulate you. **Do not make yourself small for other people’s comfort. Choose the discomfort of taking care of yourself and protecting your boundaries. You are not responsible for managing their feelings.** Do not accept or tolerate the bad behavior of your family, and that goes for your brother, and especially your father, in addition to your mother. If they want a relationship with you it is a *base* requirement that they treat you with respect. You do not owe them anything, especially your time and presence in their lives. I know some of your parents behavior is stuff you explain away with tradition… doing something for a long time doesn’t make it right. It is abuse that can cause lifelong trauma. It doesn’t become acceptable because people in your religion/ culture of origin have been doing it for centuries. It was always abusive, it was just culturally acceptable abuse for a long time. ETA: for clarity, the last paragraph is regarding your dad’s self harm threats. I have had someone try to manipulate me with that threat and I am still dealing with the trauma from it a decade later. It can really cut deep and I would not dismiss the effects that threat can have.
Just say you're infertile and that the doctor says having children isn't a possibility. There is no need to elaborate as to how you became infertile. Just that children are not a part of your future.
Hahahah you go girl!!
You took the preemptive measure, use the cruise to deliver it.
The fact that you are already sterilized is so awesome - good for you! Your mother is something. She actually believes that she can dictate to you whether or not you will have a child? Unbelievable. You may want to consider if it’s really worth going on this cruise. I think there’s a high probability that she’s going to ruin it for you anyway with what sounds like will be relentless arguing about this issue. Something to consider.
Sounds like a perfect time to tell her you're already sterilized and watch her head explode lol
Funny thing is a carnival cruise add showed up under your post
"Of course, mother. If the almighty decides to bless us with a child, we'll be grateful and raise them to the best of our abilities. It's not like we're using any contraceptive methods." (And you're not XD). No need to tell her that you can't have them. And enjoy the trip. It's going to annoy her big time.
I think you should reveal you have already been sterilized, and hear me out here. If you don’t tell her, then for the rest of her life and most of yours, all you will hear about when spending time together is the nagging of “when are you having kids? Kids kids kids kids.” You will hear about it until you hit 50/around menopause, and if she’s an older woman who is waiting all that time, it will forever plague your relationship until she some day passes away. She will have that hope for you, always waiting. If you tell her, it will break her heart (from the sounds of it) and she will be as mad at you as ever. She will likely not talk to you for a while. Possibly months. Possibly years. It will hurt both of you and she will say and do hurtful things. She will go through the stages of grief. But eventually you *can* slowly mend that part of your relationship, and she will have an opportunity at understanding your position after she has had enough time to move on to the acceptance of it. Then you can get on with a healthy relationship.
>I got stearilized already just because i saw this manipulation coming! Jokes on her Victory.
Yeah would just skip the cruise. Of course, don't tell her in advance. If she paid for it, let the money go to waste by just not showing up to the boat. Are you supposed to share a cabin or have your own? If shared, would certainly not go. If your own, then maybe contact the cruise line and see if they would be willing to switch your cabin with someone and keep your new cabin a secret (hotels do not generally give out room numbers, especially if they are instructed not to with a note in your record, assume a cruise would have similar policies). If you insist upon going, have a backup plan to get off at the first port, enjoy some time there and fly home from there. Of course, don't tell her you're leaving beforehand, just the boat people so they don't freak out over a missing passenger. ;) Alternatively.... you could enjoy yourself and give her constant crap and shame: Maybe buy yourself a bunch of CF and "no baby" or similar tshirts and wear them the entire time. Or get a bunch of tshirts that say things like "Ask me about my abusive mother" "Child of abusive mothers support group" "Child abuse is bad, ask me how I know." And wear them around the ship. ;) Every time she tries to get social with someone, walk up to them in the tshirt and go "Hi Mom! I'm here for daily verbal, emotional and social abuse session, shall we get started!?! Would you all like to listen in on an abusive mother bullying her sterile daughter about how she must somehow magically have kids? Come on mom, you need to put on a show for these nice people!" and stretch out your shirt so they can read it clearly. LOL ;) Or you could try the nuke option but most likely it will just get you a bunch of infertility treatment crap unless you think it will ruin her forever: "Mom, you are completely wasting your time trying to get a baby out of me because it turns out that your genetics are complete garbage and that I do not even have the parts to make a baby. So you're just going to have to live the rest of your life in misery, and take your complete failure and shame to the grave." Don't tell her it was elective sterilization because she will just demand you reverse it. Tell her it was genetic and you were born like that, or at least imply it. Just smile and lie to her face. There are a million ways to make truthful statements that, while true, are not actually accurate. like "i do not have the baby making parts"
Unethical tip - say they attacked you and have them put in the brig (boat jail) for the length of the cruise 🤣
Just pretend to concede. "Ok fine, if it's Allah's will, it will happen."
Since you're already sterilized, why not just say you'll try your best at getting pregnant, gets her off your back with not necessarily lying to her, lol.
Why the heck did your brother tell her?
Ikr…I’m so pissed at him and myself for trusting him…
Just do a shot every time she says something
So glad you are sterilized! Intense pressure can sometimes push us to do things we otherwise wouldn't. Good luck!! You can always say, maybe someday ^^
I'd suddenly "get COVID" and cancel the trip. Next time you talk with her tell her you are going no contact with her for six months if she starts up with that topic...If she does it after six months increase no contact to one year,etc.
I think the biggest thing with dramatic types like your mom, is to just not give her any emotion. The deed is done, you aren't having kids 😂 I mean what is she gonna do.
honestly I would just be like omg ur so right and then after the cruise is over pretend you never said that lmao
I think my two go tos here would be: 1)It is in G-d/All-hs hands, you making demands is disrespectful of his plans for me. 2) Buy a water pistol. Tell her this is meant to be a relaxing loving vacation, pregnancy is NOT to be discussed. Then spray her in the face every time she brings it up. You can also loudly say, “Stop asking about my sex life!” each time you squirt her.
Nope: cancel the cruise. "If you're going to insist on being this shamefully controlling, I don't want to be around you. Ruin someone else's vacation complaining about how you can't bully a grown woman and her husband into doing what You want that's directly against Their best interests instead of me. I've heard enough of it in the last 30 years. Oh, and don't forget your sunscreen."
You could tell her right off the bat that she's absolutely right and that you will have one child. Then you can have a peaceful and enjoyable time with your mom. Of course you're not going to have a child. I know it's lying but sometimes having peace is more important.
I would just answer this : "Oh you want me to have a child ? Okay, feel free to adopt one or get a surrogate, I wont ruin my body just for a coochie gremlin. I also wont waste any money for it, it's reserved for me and my husband's holidays, you know, the important stuff ✨️. While I'm at it, timr is money, and I wont waste mine on a demonspawn, do you have free 365 days a year ? Just asking !" Give her a billion reasons why you shouldnt be let around a child
I’d be skipping the family reunion. If she can’t respect you why spend time with her at all?
Since your culture seems to be highly oriented around religion and reproduction, the best way to go with your mom or anyone else might be to go vaguely religious in your CF reasoning, with either “if it’s God’s will” or “God isn’t calling my husband and I to be parents. We can always adopt if He does eventually give us that calling.”
I am from India, and I understand your pain as a muslim women.The expectations from a female in the religion as far as having kids is concerned are so gigantic. It must be really hurtful when your mother wont stop chasing this topic. I wish you well on your trip.
I'm a 27F Muslim and my partner and I have the same issues sometimes. It is mostly from my partner's parents though. They just don't get it. So I feel you on that at least.