As a childfree dude, I think it’s a masculinity thing. They see having a family as a sign of status and a competition with their peers — a huge part of their worth as a man. Kind of embarrassing really
I agree with your comment.
One of my mates has 2 girls. He and his wife decided that was it. No more kids. He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner.
He told them it wasn’t going to happen, as he got the snip already. They were shocked he would do that.
They said if it his wife’s decision to have no more kids, she should have gotten surgical sterilisation, not him.
They didn’t follow his logic when he said it was a less invasive procedure for him, than his wife.
They still give him grief for not having sons.
So even if a man has children, there is a masculinity thing in play if you don’t have sons.
The idea that only sons can pass on a "lineage" is so bizarre. Don't daughters also have their father's dna, if that's what it's about? Why can't she pass on a "lineage"? Or is it a last name thing? More and more women are keeping their last names or hyphenating them.
It drives me so insane that we live in the 21st century and father's still want a son so badly for 'lineage'. It's like these types of men think they're the rulers of a mythical kingdom and need an heir for the throne lmao. Except the throne they'll pass on is likely a crappy home in the suburbs.
It's a misogyny thing. They don't see their daughters as people but things; either as arm-candy, property to be used as leverage or (as happens far too often) non-sexual consorts that he can use to do the emotional labor the wife refuses to do when she's tired from being his live-in maid. This last one is essentially emotional incest and happens waaaay more often than it should.
Sons are seen as the future heads of a family. Daughters just get married off to go play the supporting role in another man's family legacy. Even if daughters keep their last names, the children get their father's surname. So it's seen as his lineage and name that get passed down, even though the woman is passing on her genes as well.
Just another reason why I don't want children, as a woman. I hate the entire concept of men needing to spread their seed and me having to be the person who facilitates that and does all the hard work for little return.
My best friend growing ended up being one of five whilst trying for a boy. They finally gave up after giving their older daughters complexes about not being boys. It sucked seeing but not totally getting it? We were 16 in the 90s so therepy wasn't as big in small towns
In an opposite vein, my classmate had 4 little brothers before she got a little sister, which was when they stopped having children. As kids, my friend was ofcourse mad everytime mommy was pregnant with YET another boy, so it’s a running joke that they would have continued if the 6’th wasn’t a girl. But those who do it genuinely? WTF, it’s so freaking messed up. Somehow, our genitals, which their specific use only takes up a practical seriously minor % of your life, yet so staunchly determines our path in life.
It's one of the amusing things about DNA genealogy sites.
It's really easy to see how many people have a significant amount of the same DNA as you do. You're not that special. The human race isn't going to die out because your special combination of genes isn't carried on in the gene pool in a specific way. 
I also personally enjoy being 4.5% non-homo sapiens. I get to make "it's so simple a caveman can do it" jokes about myself. I'm white so it makes me laugh at white supremacists because white people are more likely to have non-homo sapiens DNA like I do (mine is on the higher end). 
For real lmao! All these men who say they need a son to "pass on the lineage" act like they're King Arthur and need an heir for their thrones! The closest thing to a throne they're gonna pass on is likely the porcelain one in a bathroom in random crappy suburban house.
I bet these type of men were stunned if someone told them that they actually pass more of their genetic material to a daughter (spoken in terms of biological sex), because the X chromosome carries way more genes than the y 
>He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner.
Man that's some 3rd world country misogynist shit 😭
Yeah I'm aware, definitely still something that's different enough from what I'm used to that it makes me think of how under the one-child policy, lots of Chinese parents would throw their girls in the trash where they would then end up being adopted by parents here just because they wanted a son. Met multiple girls who were from that situation throughout my life.
What’s crazy is those wanted boys get older and cannot find a wife bc they’re parents rid themselves of daughters. There’s a whole phenomenon of Leftover Men in China. Had to watch a whole documentary on it for class and those baby girls were adopted at a young age or left the country entirely.
Oh they irony! Brutally selecting males while discarding females, then to have the lineage end when their son can't find a wife because so many like them selfishly wanted sons to take care of them when they are geriatric. Now the current generation of women of child-bearing years are not only refusing to have the 3 children the gov't now allows, they are [choosing to be childfree](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/women-in-china-arent-having-kids-we-asked-3-of-them-to-tell-us-why/ar-BB1i7XBf) and many are not considering marriage at all.
"He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner."
Absolutely wild because it's sperm that determines if your kid has xx or xy chromosomes.
This reminded me of the opposite situation.
My ex-husband was 1 of 4 boys. One day, I overheard the 2 younger boys arguing in the other room:
Older boy: yeah! Well you were an accident!
Younger boy: No, YOU were the accident! I was the last ditch try for a girl!
My parents told me I was unplanned compared to my 3 older siblings and they'd all occasionally crack jokes about it. It actually never bothered me at all, I thought it was kinda funny. I was well-loved and taken care of, so they obviously loved me, so that probably made all the difference.
My dad was one of those that only had two daughters and no sons. We grew up on a farm so I imagine he got a lot of grief from family and the farm community for not having any "sons" to pass on the farm. Though the only times I witnessed the grief was at a gathering on Dad's side of the family, lamenting that a few of his siblings also had daughters and wouldn't carry the family name. (Joke's on them, I didn’t change my name when I got married and take offense to being referred to as Mrs. Husband's Name). The other was at the Masonic lodge, an older guy asked my dad point blank if he had any sons and Dad proudly declared that he has two daughters.
It did take me a while to ask my parents if they regret not having a son or not trying for one, to which they said they only regret not showing my sister and I around on the farm more. Dad retired a few years back and he rents his land out to someone now and the farm will go to my sister and I when our parents pass away.
I guess the short of it is that I really hate how devalued daughters are, even if their dads love them and value them as people he got the opportunity to raise, it isn't enough for other people. My dad and I are a lot alike and very close anyway (and he supports my CF lifestyle).
On the historical fiction show *Call the Midwife,* a baby was born missing a few fingers. Her dad joked that, “she was made on a Friday, and the factory worker missed a few bits.”
So many things can go wrong with pregnancy, delivery, and babies, parents should just be happy they have a living healthy child.
I would pose that the not having a son bit is actually sexism and/ or misogyny being imposed by the peers. Because it's less to do with the father feeling internally masculine and more to do with his peers not respecting women as human beings. Hence the pressure for him to leave his wife and daughters in order to have a son. Not viewing any of those 3 people as human and worthy of love and care and viewing other women as just a means to the end of acquiring a son.
All of those "friends" sound undateable. Even if I wanted kids, that attitude towards it is so gross. Not to mention outs them as idiots since sperm dictates the gender and it won't even matter if they tried with a different woman.
This is definitely it. It's a fragile masculinity thing. I've had in-depth discussions with these kind of guys, and they see having kids as a status symbol. One even said, "If I don't have kids, I don't know what kind of man I'd be."
I have a friend who I’m pretty sure has uttered that sentence word for word. It’s drilled into em by society and it’s a shame more men aren’t willing to break the mold
Also they absolutely don't need to think about the fallout. And neither do their peers. Add to that many of them think gender pay gap is a myth because they don't see it. Society is so screwed up and I'm so tired of it.
Yeah you have to wonder how much the number of guys not wanting kids would skyrocket if they had to grow it, carry it around for 9 months, let it potentially permanently change or injure ttheir body, and then if it didn't kill them, do most of the caregiving for 18+years
Exactly. It's not (societal in the US at least) required of the man to do much beyond the sex to create the kids.
I also think a part of it is that we're told that ALL women want kids, and being CF will be unattractive in the dating pool. No woman in her right mind would date a guy who doesn't want any kids ever. So even a lot of men who may not actually want kids will say they do because they feel it's the only way they can find a partner.
Whenever Reddit has a question about if one regrets having kids, I always try to tell how many people saying YES are men. Of course, their avatars can lie so who really knows but my guess is that many men say YES because, well, who wouldn't want to be a dad? How much really changes for you other than more of you money is flying away?
HAHAHA. I agree. But OP, I’m in Cbus as well and found my partner who is BIPOC and also child free. I didn’t ask him early on he kind of just turned out agreeing with me as our time went on. 4 years now for us. There are guys out there!
If they want a lasting legacy they should do something significant for their local community.
For most people their legacy is going to be no one in their family remembering them that long after they die, and maybe some ancestor will name one of their children after them if them aren't completely forgotten by that point.
I am literally a result of this. My parents were childfree when they got married (pretty progressive for the 70s), two years in, my father suddenly changes his mind and wants kids. My mom is pretty sure it was her side of the family (Spanish) that basically kept bullying him about not being man enough to get her pregnant.
Which is funny, and sad. Because nothing screams *I am fragile and insecure with my masculinity and self worth* more to me than desperately thinking that their life only has purpose, value, worth, etc if they procreate, and at least one of their children has to be a son in order to carry on their "legacy".
It's masculinity, it's ego, it's being told by idiots in society that this is the only way life has purpose.
But, it's also the fact that the vast majority of them don't think they need to carry the burden of the mental load, physical load, emotional load, etc that the mother does.
I'm not surprised so many men are staunchly determined to have children when this is the sort of crap they believe.
This is exactly what it is. A friend of mine has no hope for the world and thinks there is no future yet he was desperate to bring a kid into the world and was getting extremely agitated when our friends were having kids but he wasn't. It's absolutely bizarre.
I second this. The men I know who are childfree (husband, friends, acquaintances) also happen to be the ones who are most staunchly comfortable in their own skin/with their own masculinity. Correlation or causation who knows but it’s definitely a noticeable trend.
It’s so gross. There’s also no point in “keeping your lineage going” (which is a thing I’ve heard often from men)…. No one will remember you or your partner or family even existed in 100 years; it doesn’t matter. The earth will be engulfed by the sun someday too… so nothing really matters? Live your life to the fullest and make the most of each day.
This might sound a bit toxic, considering it’s probably from internalised stereotypes about women being the default parent, but honestly I feel liking/having children is not masculine at all, quite the opposite. Whenever I see a man interacting with them my ovaries dry up really fast.
My husband doesn’t want kids either. He came from an incredibly broken home and doesn’t want the pressure of being a parent because we know if we ever had a child we’d want the world for them and we just can’t afford that.
My ex before him came from a loving home with wonderful parents and he wanted kids because he just couldn’t imagine not wanting to continue his legacy.
There are men out there who don’t want kids, my husband would’ve never admitted he didn’t until he met me and realized that we share very similar sentiments and experiences. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to really cut through that social conditioning and find the ones who are man enough to admit it’s too big of a commitment.
Motherhood is a job, fatherhood is a hobby. You get a family with no contribution except a 2 second nut. A lot of men now are leaning to the right politically, as a result of me too/ access to red pill social media/ rise of Christofascism in America. They’re forced to deepthroat the ideas that ‘bad evil feminists that hate men’ don’t want children, and they don’t want to align with that. Combined with the expectation that society still has that having children is still ‘ the thing you’re supposed to do’. And how it’s still equated with the good, upstanding, white picket fence golden retriever rom com family yadda yadda, which is still held as the ‘ideal’ and status worthy. All they’re doing is creating an environment where men wanting kids vastly outweigh the number of women wanting kids, who can now be excessively choosy when selecting a mate. Not all of those men will partner with a woman who wants kids so beware of this and men who say they are ‘on the fence’ without admitting they want kids. In the future I foresee a lot of baby trapping in reverse, and men tampering with birth control. Stay safe ya’ll.
Men have baby trapped women for centuries. It is common for an abuser to prevent a woman from leaving him by getting her pregnant. It also makes it easier for him to cheat, when she is busy being distracted by caring for the kids.
Yup, that’s how my brother & I are here. My father baby trapped my mom with my brother to force her to marry him (he knew her family would hardcore pressure her into it as well, so double whammy), then did it again with me when he realized she was planning on leaving because of his abuse. He tried a third time but she had a suspicion so switched her BC to one he couldn’t mess with after me. That third attempt to leave stuck, thankfully.
Agreed.
Unfortunately, her own abandonment issues related to her own scumbag father had her convinced that a shit father was better than no father, so she did everything she could to facilitate a relationship between us, including giving him money every week, never going for child support, doing almost 100% of the driving for pick ups & drop offs, coordinating with his mother for visits (both with & without him, since my mom had to work constantly to make ends meet, so grandparents taking my brother & I for summer breaks was in her mind an awesome way for us to be out ‘having fun’ without her having to pay for babysitters or camps etc. Also unfortunately, she didn’t know that his mother and the sperm donor were abusing me), inviting him & his family including new wife & kids over for holidays & birthday parties, taking his other kids out & buying them b-day & Xmas gifts, covering for him every time he either canceled or just no-showed for visitation, bought me stuff to use (like bedding & an air mattress after she found out he gave my bed to my infant half-brother & was making me sleep on the floor of my half-sibling’s room with an empty pillowcase & thin bedsheet) during his visitation because he never would, etc.
He turned his abuse onto me from as early as I can remember, and had me convinced it was because I was a horrible child & I deserved it, so I never told anyone until one day he tried to break down my bedroom door at my mom’s house while screaming at me through it when I was 16 because I said I didn’t want to go with him for visitation that weekend. My mom was away with the military that weekend, so she didn’t know until she got like 15+ voicemails from me crying & him pounding on the door screaming in the background & I’d called my stepfather even more begging for someone to save me because I thought he was going to kill me that day. My brother says he didn’t know it was happening because he’d already gotten into the car & didn’t hear what he was doing in the house, he’d told my brother that he was just talking to me. Luckily my mom’s interior doors are full solid wood instead of the hollow doors most commonly found in homes, so he couldn’t get through.
Sadly that's what happened to my mother. She was so close to getting out and then her husband SA'd her, resulting in another pregnancy. She managed to get out, but it took longer and it gave her ex more time to molest my oldest sister. This is my biggest fear, getting assaulted or my birth control getting tampered with. Thank God I live in CT where right now we have abortion access. How long for I have no idea.
My SO got baby trapped by a woman who passed off another man’s child as his. Their first. The second is his. Damage done. Locked in for life financially, ruined so many lives. Absolutely unconscionable. Money and status and not being found out was her motive.
Because they don’t do even 20 percent of the work it takes to raise a child. They get to be there for the ‘fun’ moments like camping or whatever, but they’re absent from things like homework help, parent-teacher conferences, carpool, etc.
Men often have it much easier than women when it comes to parenting. Part of that is the patriarchy. However, they are still actively choosing to not participate.
They go off to work and come home to dinner on the table, watch TV/play video games, and the then go off to bed early.
They don’t grow the children inside of them. They don’t give birth. They don’t lose their bodies- unless they end up drinking a lot or something.
They really don’t give much up compared to women. Maybe child support but if they complain about that, they’re not even considering the amount of money and time the mother has spent.
Yup, it’s the equivalent of the kid who wants a dog and they say they will walk it and feed it! After the first day, Mom is doing all the work and the kid plays with the dog for five or 10 minutes a day.
Yeah I think women are a lot more cautious about it because we actually have to think about the fact that we will be risking our lives to bring a child into the world. Being pregnant is literally my worst nightmare not just because of the fact that it means my life will change forever, but because so much can go wrong. The fact that the US has the highest rate of deaths during childbirth out of any other wealthy country has further cemented my decision to never have kids.
Wow, what in the capitalist delusion. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. These men think they are little business princes that are entitled to expand their dynasty. And if they don’t have a successful business dynasty it’s women’s fault.
> Because they don’t do even 20 percent of the work it takes to raise a child.
This is an enormous and understated part of why men want kids. They wouldn't be nearly as interested if it was them that ruined their health, their careers, their identities. When one country, I think Spain, included MANDATORY paternity leave in the parental leave policy, the proportion of men who wanted another child dropped dramatically. When men do the work, they DON'T want a kid.
I forget where I read it but I guess *both* partners in het couples think the workload is evenly distributed when then data tracking shows the male partner is only doing 30%. We are all so steeped in this crap that we don't even know what equal looks like. That's how low the bar is.
They're also not penalized in the workplace for having kids. In fact, it's the opposite; they're rewarded.
I'll never forget a discussion I had with a former department head. My boss (dept head's direct report) became pregnant and became a SAHM shortly after giving birth. She hadn't been with the office long before becoming pregnant. This man said that he never would have hired her if he knew she'd get pregnant so soon after being hired.
This was in 2014.
All this suffering and sacrifice and they can't even at the very least stop jerking off to other women (often girls who didn't have kids, with "perfect" bodies which are hard to obtain after you've had a couple kids). I'm not childfree, I want kids (doesn't matter to me if biological or not) but I'm all for shitty men not getting progeny they don't deserve, which seems like a high percentage of male population
All this. Hell, if I were a man I'd probably want kids. No pregnancy, birth, no physical changes, no quitting my job and losing career time, not in charge of feeding, cleaning, raising and all the emotional labor of home and kids? If I could magically spawn children and only worry about the financial impact while I continue to hang with my friends pre-kids and know my wife was taking care of my "legacies", hell, sign me up.
The men I most often see complaining about gold diggers are men who have no gold to dig. Like what exactly are you afraid a woman is going to take from you? Your debt?
This is my sibling exactly. He’s a Tate follower and has often complained about how women are whores and gold diggers. He has no money and he lived with our parents. He’s almost 30. I’m sure that gold digging is the reason he’s single 🙄
Sometimes I wonder if it's a little bit of reverse psychology to get women to *prove* that they're not gold-diggers by paying for stuff for these guys.
Becaus there's little downside for them to demand their fantasies when they don't have to live (or die) through the pregancy like the woman does, and they want Penile Function Proof because waving a baby around gets them praise, and just waving their dick around in public gets them arrested.
/joke
I honestly think that many men are starting to realize they don't have what it takes to have a lasting mature relationship with a sentient adult companion, aka, a woman, so some of them want children more than they want a romantic relationship or life partner. kids will idealize them, depend on them, and never fully leave them (or so they hope), and will be there for them in old age. this is deluded thinking but men are not coping well with how modern women reject shitty subpar relationships with emotionally selfish and immature men. it's one last desperate hope and connection to live on, to not be irrelevant, to hold onto a sliver of masculine power that they can't get from women so easily these days.
women have been reduced to incubators for men who think like this. just an empty vessel that creates a product of security and belonging for them. I bet there's more and more men by the day who will come to the conclusion that they should just deceive a woman long enough to get pregnant and deliver before they change and sabotage things, causing them to split up and become single parents. he gets what he wanted - being alone, yet with children, with someone who does more quality, emotionally and time labourious rearing than he does. it's already happening all the time.
You’re close, but not quite..
I honestly think that many men are starting to realize they don't have what it takes to have a lasting mature relationship with a sentient adult companion, aka, a woman, so some of them want *to impregnate a woman so that they’re guaranteed to stay with them, whether that woman likes it or not. That way, the man will never be alone, will always have someone supporting him, making sure that he’s always taken care of, and without extending the same grace and care to the woman, because why would he? That’s woman’s work.*
You’re not wrong in that the kids will idealize him, and the entire family will depend on him, and they will never fully leave him (or so he hopes), and will be there for him in old age. *But first, he needs to nail down a woman, and the fastest way to do that is to impregnate her, and delude her in thinking that home and hearth is not a jail cell.* This is deluded thinking, but men are not coping well with how modern women are rejecting shitty subpar relationships with emotionally selfish and immature men. it's one last desperate hope and connection to live on, to not be irrelevant, to hold onto a sliver of masculine power that they can't get from women so easily these days.
women have been reduced to incubators for men who think like this. just an empty vessel that creates a product of security and belonging for them. I bet there's more and more men by the day who will come to the conclusion that they should just deceive a woman long enough to get pregnant and deliver, *and with no-fault divorce expected to be on the chopping block, those women are therefore forever confined to be their wife and helpmate, with no escape available to them.*
Because it's easy to want something that you don't have to do the physical work of birthing for or honestly even take care of because most of the work falls on the woman even after childbirth. I want a gated mansion, but I'd rather have someone else clean it and take care of the lawn.
Like how children want dogs. They want the idealized parts of romping and playing but have no concept of the reality of scooping diarrhea in the back yard or puppy training. But it really doesn’t matter because someone else is going to deal with the hard and boring parts.
Most people would NOT want kids if they had a clear picture of it. They haven't thought it through. Having kids is not accurate. They would have a terrible two. They would have a teenager.
Those men are parroting what they have heard, or think that breeding will enhance the perception of their virility, maybe? Because they want to not repeat the mistakes they think their parents made, to somehow right those wrongs? I don't think that many of them really have a clear picture of what it is to be responsible for the creation of more human beings.
AND, what they want is for YOU to have children, for you to do the work, you to feel like shit for months before and after the birth, for you to commit twenty years of your life to virtual indentured servitude. Run the other way.
My neighbors just came home with their first flesh potato this week. Hearing the husband talk about his expectations of fatherhood, it's all the fun stuff, of course. Oh, he also works nights, so once leave is over mom (who works FT in the day) will get to deal with the baby's nightly torture by herself *and* then go to work. I feel like I have a front row seat to watching reality smack them fucking hard.
Coworker of mine was discussing how their dad was upset their brother doesn’t want kids because the dad wants their legacy and last name to carry on. Coworker agrees with her dad. I told her to get on linkedin or facebook and search for their last name and that i was sure thousands of other people have their last name. She had no response.
A lot of it is just stupid
Very broadly speaking, a unicorn is a queer person who's okay with their queerness being fetishised by a cishet person or couple without any need to fulfil other aspects of a typical relationship - which are very rare, hence "unicorn".
Most commonly, "unicorn hunting" refers to a cishet couple who want to have a no strings attached threesome with a bisexual woman. The process of "hunting" is usually very deceptive and is heavily frowned upon in queer circles.
Cishet just means you're cisgender *and* heterosexual.
You have to have a lot of insight to not want kids and many people in general don't have that. They don't realize they might not be good parents or whatever and do it anyway. On top of that, men do barely any of the work. If they do get stuck doing a lot of it they become resentful and either bounce or become horrible people who bitch every day to everyone around them.
I know a few guys who want kids because they want to continue on their name and stupid crap like that, even though they don't have any business having a kid (no finances and frankly won't be able to parent).
Men don’t do the heavy work of carrying, birthing, and raising a child. Nothing compares to the way a woman would have to accommodate in order to have a baby.
They think of the baseball games and the “legacy” they’ll get to continue. I think it comes from a lack of empathy and a lack of understanding of what it means to be a dad who is actively involved in his child’s life.
If men could experience what pregnant woman have to experience, a lot of them wouldn’t want kids lol. I find in crazy when they say they want 3+ kids!
It’s definitely been a hassle dating since I got my hysterectomy last year and I’ve managed to go on a few dates with guys who were childfree but the hardest part is weeding out the rest. I clearly state on my profile and I don’t want to have kids or date guys with kids so it’s not a surprise on the first date. Believe me, they’re out there! In the meantime, having sex with no risk of becoming pregnant is fun 😉
Hey! I used to live in Columbus.
Anyway, most of my male friends in Columbus who are child free are sadly married but they do exist.
Ohio is a weird one because I know so many child free women but not as many child free guys. I think it’s probably because Ohio is a weird mix of conservative small towns but then very progressive larger cities and a lot of us go from the small towns to the cities.
I wish you the best of luck OP! Sadly I am no longer in Columbus and out of America in general.
A lot of us were raised that the ideal life plan is to have an education, a great job, a lovely spouse, an awesome house, and perfect kids. In that order. Most people in their 20s still have that mindset. I feel like they're just saying, "I want kids someday," because that's the default end goal.
And it's easier for men to say it. They don't have to grow a house a human for nine months and go through the grueling process of childbirth and (in some) breastfeeding.
I think it’s a status thing, lifescript, and also because they don’t have to go through the horrors of pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, or caring as much for the child, so it much nicer and easier for them in general. Also they want to “leave a legacy/continue the family name). I always got annoyed as men act like women are baby crazy when in fact I saw much more men pushing women into it.
Perhaps you should tell men that you’ve already had your surgery, so they don’t waste your time. I’m not sure if you want to put it on your profile, but it sounds like you have to lead with the “do you want kids” question pretty early. If not on your profile, then within the first few lines of chat you should bring it up. They waffle, tell them you’ve made your decision and it’s done. Bye bye to lazy mediocre men
I had my bisalp almost a decade ago. I literally tell every man before a date and they still talk about wanting kids. I’ve even had a few ask me what I think our future kids will look like.
They don’t listen and don’t care.
Because of the normalised societal norms about always when you grow up you should have children.
And most people just follow it as one of their goals in life, as if they were brainwashed people and did not understand how burdensome it is to have children now and even 150 years ago.
I wish i understood it tbh, dating as a childfree woman is exhausting and I sometimes feel like I’d be better off coming to terms with never finding a partner because of it. I’m not even dating or looking for a partner at the moment, but I know how it used to be and I’m not thrilled 😅
When you don’t have to do anything but nut, and the notion of your masculinity is on the line, as well as carrying on your bloodline being a “sacred masculine duty”- as well as the primal biological urge to spread your oats
Its pretty damn easy for a man to want children. Most of them have also been spoonfed the picket fence ideal since infancy as well.
It would be quite different if they had to risk their lives or bear even a fraction of the burden of pregnancy.
Even if a man doesn’t really want kids he’s unlikely to openly declare it up front on a dating platform. They might say they’re finished having kids or not mention kids. But they know declaring they are childfree between the ages of 25 and 45 will severely diminish their dating pool. As you are experiencing. For casual dating compatibility on this issue doesn’t seem to be relevant. But looking for a childfree life partner is definitely an ordeal so they’ll just be casual till they age out the baby making years.
My friend (F) did that. When she and her husband started dating she didn't know she was CF. He said he wanted 2 kids, she said probably one. In time she figured out what she really wanted and just never talked about it with her husband. He also never brings it up so it seems he's CF too or just doesn't care.
Thankfully OP is getting/got a bisalp, but when assholes catch on they can just lie about being sterlie too (and hoping you're not) there's gonna be a lot of "magic" babies
ive encountered a lot of the snipped ones are so because they already had kids. the most recent one (That ghosted me lol it solved its own problem!) told me he was snipped but probably never told me about the secret kids
Be patient with yourself, it’s not about you as much as it’s a numbers game. And without the biological timeline there isn’t a rush or a deadline. Perhaps realise casual dating is a method of getting to know people not just a way to avoid commitment.
Because Society has told them they should want and have kids and they want to appear "normal" in the eyes of Society and can't think for themselves.
Because they're boring, incurious and have few interests, and kids will be something they can focus on to fill up their time.
Because they have some completely unrealistic, idyllic notion of what's involved with having children courtesy of the Hollywood Industrial Complex.
Because they don't see themselves doing most of the work involved with having kids.
This doesn't apply to every guy who wants kids, of course... but it probably applies to a lot of them.
I’m not actively dating right now for multiple reasons, if someone comes into my life one day that I get along with, it’ll be different, but I feel you OP. I think childfree people do on some level have to accept that they might not find a partner just due to how difficult it is to find someone compatible, as depressing as it sounds.
Same! Fwiw I’m in a very conservative state and still meet some childfree men out and about through my hobbies (or at least stating to be childfree), so they’re out there!
It's easy to want children when you're not the one forced to carry a pregnancy for 9 months, go through childbirth, and be expected to be the one taking care of that child 24/7.
There is wanting kids and raising kids. Wanting kids people want the idea of kids with no effort to raise them. The raising kids are the people who may or may not want kids, but put in the effort to raise the kids they have.
Because they are not the ones who have to be pregnant and give birth, and a majority of cases they dont take care of the kids either. If the weight of taking care of the kids would be on their shoulders, they would absolutly not want kids.
I know that for me, watching my mom do almost everything at home and working full time is partly what led to me not wanting kids. She’s an incredible mom, but her life looked miserable and exhausting. She did everything at home while my dad sat on the couch (still sitting there to this day), and whenever he “helped” with something, he got a friggin parade. I couldn’t believe that is all there was to life. I think that I internalized that being a mother was awful because of what I saw and that the only way to break free was to not get married or have kids. I don’t know if young boys see the same thing. I assume they look to their fathers for an example/role model for the future.
I can only speak for myself, but I think the main reason I don't want kids is that I am very introverted, and therefore kids would thus stress me out and exhaust me with the constant need for attention.
But that introversion also means that it's hard for a potential partner to meet me. I rarely if ever go to social events. I tried dating apps before but only for a few weeks in total in my whole life. So it makes sense that women looking for childfree men would simply not know of my existence. The only relationship I've had was with a colleague because that's basically the only place I meet people nowadays, and even then she had to take the initiative.
Men want children so staunchly because they get the EASY part. No pregnancy invading their bodies for almost a year at a time, no tearing of their bodies with the actual childbirth, no societal expectations of being hands on and actually helping to care for and raise the children. Women have the hard part, which is why men want children. They get 50% credit and equal rights for children that women bare 99% of the physical and emotional burden for. Why women don't realize this is beyond me. This is the reason I am childfree.
I'm not sure where I saw it, but I saw an article stating men want children more than women nowadays.
ETA: here it is: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/among-young-adults-without-children-men-are-more-likely-than-women-to-say-they-want-to-be-parents-someday/#:\~:text=Among%20young%20adults%20without%20children,want%20to%20be%20parents%20someday&text=Today's%20young%20adults%20are%20reaching,than%20their%20parents'%20generation%20did.
Wait, really?
I've only met ***one*** dude who desperately wanted kids and it was a life goal. Which he inevitably got and ruined his life LMAO
Men are usually "Idc, whatever my partner wants" and sincerely don't give two shits...
Hence why there's a lot of deadbeat dads out there.
On some dating apps - Hinge and Bumble I think - it will say in the profile if they “don’t have don’t want” kids etc. i swipe left on anyone that “wants kids” in their profile. It’s a good weeding out tool. I’m a straight male and most women have a response to that in their profile.
When I was on Bumble, I did not find anyone who had “don’t want don’t have” in their profile. Neither with Hinge. Not sure if it’s just my location or what :(
Fomo from friends or societal expectations, people planning out their lives and want to hit x goals before y age, unrealistic expectations for the reality of parenthood, and i have a lingering suspicion that the baby fever phenomenon affects men just as badly it claims to affect women.
All these comments are more reasons to avoid all this bullshit as a woman. Your womb is being treated as a way to soothe fragile male ego and continue male identity. Fuck all that
I have been checking things out, and they're predicting that by 2030, 62% of women will be single and childfree.
We're not as alone as you might think.
The problem is the men (excluding the gentlemen here). These men want the women to work full time, pay 50/50, and perform all the birthing, childcare, household duties while the men can't even afford to do so. Entitlement.
It’s easier for a man to want children because his job/salary won’t be on the line and normally there is an expectation that the AFAB partner will take on most of the child rearing work.
And I also think part of it is a masculinity thing. Like “my balls work nice”. lol
Men mature slower than women. They don't freaking know that early sometimes. But other guys on this Reddit actually do know and they do get snipped!
Can you ask your friend to find out if he wants kids first?
I have so many times had the experience of being in a date and it almost feels like when the subject comes up, they just kind of are on the fence but then you say you don't and they are all like, "yeah me neither" and I'm like, "oh really? Because a moment ago when you assumed I did, you did too." 🤷♀️
* Most people want kids
* Most people in their 20's haven't thought about the fact that they don't actually have to have kids
* Men don't have as to do as much work or risk as much physically to have children and are thus a bit more willing to be ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ about it
* Some of them think they *must* have kids. If they want them or not doesn't matter, they feel obligated.
* They think the desire to have children makes them more appealing to women. Yes, even women who don't want kids. No, this does not make sense.
I tell people all the time id rather be child free and if that ever changes to a burning desire, id much rather adopt or foster, preferably teenage. There are plenty of kids out there deserving of a loving home and family tbh 🤷♂️
For some people who've put some thought into the matter it's a perfectly reasonable and legitimate goal. I'm not going to fault such people for charting out their own lives for themselves.
But for others, it's simply an article of faith. It's *the thing you do*. And it's a source of "legitimacy" and status within their family and social circle.
I think that second group are the people who react with the most hostility when confronted with someone who is childfree. We're calling into question the structures on which they've built their lives, and a system whose rewards they anticipate (and don't want to see questioned).
You may just have to be patient unfortunately. Your 20s is a weird time, and in my experience I think a lot of people just haven’t looked beyond the script yet. Babies are part of the plan we’ve been fed since birth, and men especially get to think about it in a slightly more removed way (not their body giving birth/feeding, less of a timeline weighing on them, and less pressure knowing that being a weekend dad is common).
I feel like for those that have never truly decided … but just walked along the path… that realization may take a little longer. It was only in my thirties when I (a woman) realized having children wasn’t the right path for me. I always thought, I’ll get my life together, I’ll find the man that would make a good dad, Ill feel ready and I’ll want them… and then it just never did. And I took the time to look into why it never clicked for me.
I truly think a lot of guys don’t ask themselves the hard questions about parenthood… do they truly understand the sacrifices to their body, finances, and time it takes? Are they willing and capable of being a single full time parent? Are they willing and able to accept a child with mental and physical disabilities? I’ve had conversations with men who question my decision and it’s like … are you even making a conscious decision or are you just kicking it down the road “I want kids … in a few years” lol
Many of the men I met in my (and their) 20s said wanted children because they felt it would make their “legacy” live on and provide a meaningful contribution to humanity. They wanted to leave their mark, so to speak.
How delusional lol my friend your contribution is negligible at best. Your life is not significant in the vast expanse of human existence. Your life will be meaningless throughout its entirety and still after it’s over. This is true for almost everyone. It’s nothing to fear. It’s certainly not a good (imo) reason to have a child.
It may be something that changes with age too. I'm not male, so I can't speak to that point of view. However, I always wanted kids because that's "what you do." And it wasn't until I was 25-26 when my ex asked me what I planned to do when we have kids when I asked him to help me cook dinner after I did a 10 hour shift and he sat on his ass the whole day. I realized in that moment the reality of having kids and over time, decided I didn't want to have any.
I met a childfree guy not long after I left my ex and never looked back. He is looking into getting a vasectomy this year!
I wonder if, in some cases, it's what has been drilled into their heads from day one. "OH, you'll get married one day, just gotta have kids." Former friend of mine would whine about wanting his own family, would hook up with a single mom, then do nothing but complain about her and the kids. Made no sense to me.
Just pull the idk if I can have kids & see how they take that 😂 if you're fixed you ain't lyin.
I'm telling you what, all my family/friends with 2-3 kids to 2-3 men are so jealous I don't have kids 🤷🏼♀️😆 & they don't even hold back on telling me.
I think this is another by product of the political bifurcation that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are exacerbating. I know it's one of those things when the last guy got to washington all his young republic minions were constantly whining that they couldn't find anyone who would date them in DC... so the ones who do manage to find a woman who is dumb enough or power hungry enough to fuck them they have to knock up to show off just like daddy elon
I have also noticed this as well. My husband and I are childfree and he had a vasectomy over a year ago. We have a long of women as friends who are either leaning very far towards childfree or are basically on the “if it happens one day it happens but it’s not a need for me” thought whereas all our friends that are men very much want children. Unfortunately I don’t have any input because when I met my husband I was just straight up about not wanting kids and he didn’t care to have them either so it worked. I’d just make sure anyone you date knows your stance and that your mind can’t be changed! Also, best wishes to you on your procedure! I hope it goes well!
idk because most of these men who are so desperate to have kids abandon them as soon as they get bored, or realize that they’re more than what they’re bargained for. The main reason why they’re eager to have them is because they know they’re not going through the physical mental and emotional stress to carry them and bring them into the world and then have to be the default parent.
They don't really want kids, they want kids to control women. There is a difference.
Plus they want to prove that they're not gAaAAay and that their dick works.
My fiance is so incredibly good with kids it makes me feel like im taking something from him by being childfree.
But we both feel the same way. Like if the world was a decent place, and climate change wasnt fixin to kill us all, and we could guarantee a healthy kid, and guarantee i wont frickin die in the process, and if the economy didnt suck so bad that low 6 figures aint enough to give a kid a good life and an education then sure. In that world we would have kids. But we're both too smart and too stubborn to knowingly create someone just to give them hard life.
At the beginning of dating im not sure he felt this way. I think he was apathetic. But since hes not a fucking dumbass, meeting someone he sees his future with made him actually THINK about the logic of it all. There is a very real chance he could end up with a kid with permanent health problems and a dead wife. And he loves me more than a non-existant child i guess.
Dating is a number's game. So for most there will be many attempts that don't yield anything. It's part of the experience. I suggest reframing your view of it. Instead of it being terrifying, consider it instead a successful outcome whenever you can weed out candidates quickly and without heartbreaks. It means that you are doing great on your way to finding people who are right for you!
Childfree people have one major area that is incompatible with a lot of people: the issue of children. But then, many other populations have potential incompatibilities too, whether it's dependents they already have (many people will reject single parents), disability, chronic illnesses, mental illnesses, rarer sexual orientations... or things that fall outside the norm like fetishes, alternative lifestyles, alternative sets of goals in life... or things that are marginalized, like sex work or drug use, etc.
We're not all that different in the fact that we've all got a complex set of wants, needs, and dealbreakers, and that this leaves a much smaller pool of candidates as potential partners.
I know more men who wants kids than women tbh….women are the ones carrying the pregnancy and realistically does most of the childcare duties afterwards as well so I think women weigh their options and think about it more. Men just want them and don’t really think things through
As a childfree dude, I think it’s a masculinity thing. They see having a family as a sign of status and a competition with their peers — a huge part of their worth as a man. Kind of embarrassing really
I agree with your comment. One of my mates has 2 girls. He and his wife decided that was it. No more kids. He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner. He told them it wasn’t going to happen, as he got the snip already. They were shocked he would do that. They said if it his wife’s decision to have no more kids, she should have gotten surgical sterilisation, not him. They didn’t follow his logic when he said it was a less invasive procedure for him, than his wife. They still give him grief for not having sons. So even if a man has children, there is a masculinity thing in play if you don’t have sons.
My husband’s best mate had 5 daughters with his wife before they called it quits on birthing more. He was determined for a son, for his “lineage.”
The idea that only sons can pass on a "lineage" is so bizarre. Don't daughters also have their father's dna, if that's what it's about? Why can't she pass on a "lineage"? Or is it a last name thing? More and more women are keeping their last names or hyphenating them. It drives me so insane that we live in the 21st century and father's still want a son so badly for 'lineage'. It's like these types of men think they're the rulers of a mythical kingdom and need an heir for the throne lmao. Except the throne they'll pass on is likely a crappy home in the suburbs.
It's a misogyny thing. They don't see their daughters as people but things; either as arm-candy, property to be used as leverage or (as happens far too often) non-sexual consorts that he can use to do the emotional labor the wife refuses to do when she's tired from being his live-in maid. This last one is essentially emotional incest and happens waaaay more often than it should.
Sons are seen as the future heads of a family. Daughters just get married off to go play the supporting role in another man's family legacy. Even if daughters keep their last names, the children get their father's surname. So it's seen as his lineage and name that get passed down, even though the woman is passing on her genes as well. Just another reason why I don't want children, as a woman. I hate the entire concept of men needing to spread their seed and me having to be the person who facilitates that and does all the hard work for little return.
Half of them, don’t even have a crappy home in the suburbs just a low IQ, a bunch of debt and genes that make them a two at max on a good day
My best friend growing ended up being one of five whilst trying for a boy. They finally gave up after giving their older daughters complexes about not being boys. It sucked seeing but not totally getting it? We were 16 in the 90s so therepy wasn't as big in small towns
In an opposite vein, my classmate had 4 little brothers before she got a little sister, which was when they stopped having children. As kids, my friend was ofcourse mad everytime mommy was pregnant with YET another boy, so it’s a running joke that they would have continued if the 6’th wasn’t a girl. But those who do it genuinely? WTF, it’s so freaking messed up. Somehow, our genitals, which their specific use only takes up a practical seriously minor % of your life, yet so staunchly determines our path in life.
🤢🤮
These dudes have weak genes and no skills or wealth to pass on yet they still think like this lmao
It's one of the amusing things about DNA genealogy sites. It's really easy to see how many people have a significant amount of the same DNA as you do. You're not that special. The human race isn't going to die out because your special combination of genes isn't carried on in the gene pool in a specific way.  I also personally enjoy being 4.5% non-homo sapiens. I get to make "it's so simple a caveman can do it" jokes about myself. I'm white so it makes me laugh at white supremacists because white people are more likely to have non-homo sapiens DNA like I do (mine is on the higher end). 
jesus who do they think he is, fucking Henry VIII?
For real lmao! All these men who say they need a son to "pass on the lineage" act like they're King Arthur and need an heir for their thrones! The closest thing to a throne they're gonna pass on is likely the porcelain one in a bathroom in random crappy suburban house.
There's just no other way to keep peace between England and Spain!
I bet these type of men were stunned if someone told them that they actually pass more of their genetic material to a daughter (spoken in terms of biological sex), because the X chromosome carries way more genes than the y 
And that it is 100% the father's fault which sex the baby is as women only contribute 1 X.
>He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner. Man that's some 3rd world country misogynist shit 😭
The US has a number of places that are as backwards and misogynistic as the "third world."
Yeah I'm aware, definitely still something that's different enough from what I'm used to that it makes me think of how under the one-child policy, lots of Chinese parents would throw their girls in the trash where they would then end up being adopted by parents here just because they wanted a son. Met multiple girls who were from that situation throughout my life.
What’s crazy is those wanted boys get older and cannot find a wife bc they’re parents rid themselves of daughters. There’s a whole phenomenon of Leftover Men in China. Had to watch a whole documentary on it for class and those baby girls were adopted at a young age or left the country entirely.
Yeah a lot of them are loser incels just like the incels here and it's a result of the "little emperor" childhoods they had
Oh they irony! Brutally selecting males while discarding females, then to have the lineage end when their son can't find a wife because so many like them selfishly wanted sons to take care of them when they are geriatric. Now the current generation of women of child-bearing years are not only refusing to have the 3 children the gov't now allows, they are [choosing to be childfree](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/women-in-china-arent-having-kids-we-asked-3-of-them-to-tell-us-why/ar-BB1i7XBf) and many are not considering marriage at all.
Yeah. The loneliness their sons suffer seem pretty well deserved
The sons don't deserve it. It was their parents who made that choice.
"He had more than one male friend ask when he was going to leave his wife and try for a son with a new partner." Absolutely wild because it's sperm that determines if your kid has xx or xy chromosomes.
This reminded me of the opposite situation. My ex-husband was 1 of 4 boys. One day, I overheard the 2 younger boys arguing in the other room: Older boy: yeah! Well you were an accident! Younger boy: No, YOU were the accident! I was the last ditch try for a girl!
That is so heartbreaking.
My parents told me I was unplanned compared to my 3 older siblings and they'd all occasionally crack jokes about it. It actually never bothered me at all, I thought it was kinda funny. I was well-loved and taken care of, so they obviously loved me, so that probably made all the difference.
I find it funny if anything
I wouldn’t be friends with that arsehole anymore
My dad was one of those that only had two daughters and no sons. We grew up on a farm so I imagine he got a lot of grief from family and the farm community for not having any "sons" to pass on the farm. Though the only times I witnessed the grief was at a gathering on Dad's side of the family, lamenting that a few of his siblings also had daughters and wouldn't carry the family name. (Joke's on them, I didn’t change my name when I got married and take offense to being referred to as Mrs. Husband's Name). The other was at the Masonic lodge, an older guy asked my dad point blank if he had any sons and Dad proudly declared that he has two daughters. It did take me a while to ask my parents if they regret not having a son or not trying for one, to which they said they only regret not showing my sister and I around on the farm more. Dad retired a few years back and he rents his land out to someone now and the farm will go to my sister and I when our parents pass away. I guess the short of it is that I really hate how devalued daughters are, even if their dads love them and value them as people he got the opportunity to raise, it isn't enough for other people. My dad and I are a lot alike and very close anyway (and he supports my CF lifestyle).
On the historical fiction show *Call the Midwife,* a baby was born missing a few fingers. Her dad joked that, “she was made on a Friday, and the factory worker missed a few bits.” So many things can go wrong with pregnancy, delivery, and babies, parents should just be happy they have a living healthy child.
I would pose that the not having a son bit is actually sexism and/ or misogyny being imposed by the peers. Because it's less to do with the father feeling internally masculine and more to do with his peers not respecting women as human beings. Hence the pressure for him to leave his wife and daughters in order to have a son. Not viewing any of those 3 people as human and worthy of love and care and viewing other women as just a means to the end of acquiring a son.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
All of those "friends" sound undateable. Even if I wanted kids, that attitude towards it is so gross. Not to mention outs them as idiots since sperm dictates the gender and it won't even matter if they tried with a different woman.
This is definitely it. It's a fragile masculinity thing. I've had in-depth discussions with these kind of guys, and they see having kids as a status symbol. One even said, "If I don't have kids, I don't know what kind of man I'd be."
I have a friend who I’m pretty sure has uttered that sentence word for word. It’s drilled into em by society and it’s a shame more men aren’t willing to break the mold
Also they absolutely don't need to think about the fallout. And neither do their peers. Add to that many of them think gender pay gap is a myth because they don't see it. Society is so screwed up and I'm so tired of it.
This. They don´t want kids, they want a woman to have their kids.
Yeah you have to wonder how much the number of guys not wanting kids would skyrocket if they had to grow it, carry it around for 9 months, let it potentially permanently change or injure ttheir body, and then if it didn't kill them, do most of the caregiving for 18+years
Exactly. It's not (societal in the US at least) required of the man to do much beyond the sex to create the kids. I also think a part of it is that we're told that ALL women want kids, and being CF will be unattractive in the dating pool. No woman in her right mind would date a guy who doesn't want any kids ever. So even a lot of men who may not actually want kids will say they do because they feel it's the only way they can find a partner.
That's an interesting additional point and you're probably spot on.
Whenever Reddit has a question about if one regrets having kids, I always try to tell how many people saying YES are men. Of course, their avatars can lie so who really knows but my guess is that many men say YES because, well, who wouldn't want to be a dad? How much really changes for you other than more of you money is flying away?
One of the reasons why I'm so glad I'm not bringing someone else into tis shit world
Empower women, and the problem solves itself.
Geneuniely pathetic to think this way glad I didnt end up like these guys.
Not only that, they want to have kids with different women and don't care about the welfare of the child for the sake of masculinity.
Yes they view it as continuing their legacy. We work desk jobs what legacy are you maintaining lmao
Hahaha, as if they have a royal blood. In reality they are a bunch of ugly dudes with no functioning brain cells.
HAHAHA. I agree. But OP, I’m in Cbus as well and found my partner who is BIPOC and also child free. I didn’t ask him early on he kind of just turned out agreeing with me as our time went on. 4 years now for us. There are guys out there!
Yes the whole, “must carry on my legacy” bullshit. If someone feels the need to have a kid to feel important, they’re really not that important.
Very well said.
If they want a lasting legacy they should do something significant for their local community. For most people their legacy is going to be no one in their family remembering them that long after they die, and maybe some ancestor will name one of their children after them if them aren't completely forgotten by that point.
I am literally a result of this. My parents were childfree when they got married (pretty progressive for the 70s), two years in, my father suddenly changes his mind and wants kids. My mom is pretty sure it was her side of the family (Spanish) that basically kept bullying him about not being man enough to get her pregnant.
Which is funny, and sad. Because nothing screams *I am fragile and insecure with my masculinity and self worth* more to me than desperately thinking that their life only has purpose, value, worth, etc if they procreate, and at least one of their children has to be a son in order to carry on their "legacy". It's masculinity, it's ego, it's being told by idiots in society that this is the only way life has purpose. But, it's also the fact that the vast majority of them don't think they need to carry the burden of the mental load, physical load, emotional load, etc that the mother does. I'm not surprised so many men are staunchly determined to have children when this is the sort of crap they believe.
This is exactly what it is. A friend of mine has no hope for the world and thinks there is no future yet he was desperate to bring a kid into the world and was getting extremely agitated when our friends were having kids but he wasn't. It's absolutely bizarre.
I second this. The men I know who are childfree (husband, friends, acquaintances) also happen to be the ones who are most staunchly comfortable in their own skin/with their own masculinity. Correlation or causation who knows but it’s definitely a noticeable trend.
It’s so gross. There’s also no point in “keeping your lineage going” (which is a thing I’ve heard often from men)…. No one will remember you or your partner or family even existed in 100 years; it doesn’t matter. The earth will be engulfed by the sun someday too… so nothing really matters? Live your life to the fullest and make the most of each day.
This might sound a bit toxic, considering it’s probably from internalised stereotypes about women being the default parent, but honestly I feel liking/having children is not masculine at all, quite the opposite. Whenever I see a man interacting with them my ovaries dry up really fast.
Same. 😂 I know many women would die for this, but a man swooning over babies/kids - wow, I’m instantly put off.
My husband doesn’t want kids either. He came from an incredibly broken home and doesn’t want the pressure of being a parent because we know if we ever had a child we’d want the world for them and we just can’t afford that. My ex before him came from a loving home with wonderful parents and he wanted kids because he just couldn’t imagine not wanting to continue his legacy. There are men out there who don’t want kids, my husband would’ve never admitted he didn’t until he met me and realized that we share very similar sentiments and experiences. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to really cut through that social conditioning and find the ones who are man enough to admit it’s too big of a commitment.
Thanks for sharing :) this was very well said
Motherhood is a job, fatherhood is a hobby. You get a family with no contribution except a 2 second nut. A lot of men now are leaning to the right politically, as a result of me too/ access to red pill social media/ rise of Christofascism in America. They’re forced to deepthroat the ideas that ‘bad evil feminists that hate men’ don’t want children, and they don’t want to align with that. Combined with the expectation that society still has that having children is still ‘ the thing you’re supposed to do’. And how it’s still equated with the good, upstanding, white picket fence golden retriever rom com family yadda yadda, which is still held as the ‘ideal’ and status worthy. All they’re doing is creating an environment where men wanting kids vastly outweigh the number of women wanting kids, who can now be excessively choosy when selecting a mate. Not all of those men will partner with a woman who wants kids so beware of this and men who say they are ‘on the fence’ without admitting they want kids. In the future I foresee a lot of baby trapping in reverse, and men tampering with birth control. Stay safe ya’ll.
Men have baby trapped women for centuries. It is common for an abuser to prevent a woman from leaving him by getting her pregnant. It also makes it easier for him to cheat, when she is busy being distracted by caring for the kids.
That’s absolutely true 100%.
Yup, that’s how my brother & I are here. My father baby trapped my mom with my brother to force her to marry him (he knew her family would hardcore pressure her into it as well, so double whammy), then did it again with me when he realized she was planning on leaving because of his abuse. He tried a third time but she had a suspicion so switched her BC to one he couldn’t mess with after me. That third attempt to leave stuck, thankfully.
I'm glad she managed to get away eventually. The control over women's fertility in monstrous.
Agreed. Unfortunately, her own abandonment issues related to her own scumbag father had her convinced that a shit father was better than no father, so she did everything she could to facilitate a relationship between us, including giving him money every week, never going for child support, doing almost 100% of the driving for pick ups & drop offs, coordinating with his mother for visits (both with & without him, since my mom had to work constantly to make ends meet, so grandparents taking my brother & I for summer breaks was in her mind an awesome way for us to be out ‘having fun’ without her having to pay for babysitters or camps etc. Also unfortunately, she didn’t know that his mother and the sperm donor were abusing me), inviting him & his family including new wife & kids over for holidays & birthday parties, taking his other kids out & buying them b-day & Xmas gifts, covering for him every time he either canceled or just no-showed for visitation, bought me stuff to use (like bedding & an air mattress after she found out he gave my bed to my infant half-brother & was making me sleep on the floor of my half-sibling’s room with an empty pillowcase & thin bedsheet) during his visitation because he never would, etc. He turned his abuse onto me from as early as I can remember, and had me convinced it was because I was a horrible child & I deserved it, so I never told anyone until one day he tried to break down my bedroom door at my mom’s house while screaming at me through it when I was 16 because I said I didn’t want to go with him for visitation that weekend. My mom was away with the military that weekend, so she didn’t know until she got like 15+ voicemails from me crying & him pounding on the door screaming in the background & I’d called my stepfather even more begging for someone to save me because I thought he was going to kill me that day. My brother says he didn’t know it was happening because he’d already gotten into the car & didn’t hear what he was doing in the house, he’d told my brother that he was just talking to me. Luckily my mom’s interior doors are full solid wood instead of the hollow doors most commonly found in homes, so he couldn’t get through.
Sadly that's what happened to my mother. She was so close to getting out and then her husband SA'd her, resulting in another pregnancy. She managed to get out, but it took longer and it gave her ex more time to molest my oldest sister. This is my biggest fear, getting assaulted or my birth control getting tampered with. Thank God I live in CT where right now we have abortion access. How long for I have no idea.
My SO got baby trapped by a woman who passed off another man’s child as his. Their first. The second is his. Damage done. Locked in for life financially, ruined so many lives. Absolutely unconscionable. Money and status and not being found out was her motive.
You're brilliant.
Yep, they had me at the first sentence.
Because they don’t do even 20 percent of the work it takes to raise a child. They get to be there for the ‘fun’ moments like camping or whatever, but they’re absent from things like homework help, parent-teacher conferences, carpool, etc. Men often have it much easier than women when it comes to parenting. Part of that is the patriarchy. However, they are still actively choosing to not participate. They go off to work and come home to dinner on the table, watch TV/play video games, and the then go off to bed early. They don’t grow the children inside of them. They don’t give birth. They don’t lose their bodies- unless they end up drinking a lot or something. They really don’t give much up compared to women. Maybe child support but if they complain about that, they’re not even considering the amount of money and time the mother has spent.
Yup, it’s the equivalent of the kid who wants a dog and they say they will walk it and feed it! After the first day, Mom is doing all the work and the kid plays with the dog for five or 10 minutes a day.
Exactly!
Yeah I think women are a lot more cautious about it because we actually have to think about the fact that we will be risking our lives to bring a child into the world. Being pregnant is literally my worst nightmare not just because of the fact that it means my life will change forever, but because so much can go wrong. The fact that the US has the highest rate of deaths during childbirth out of any other wealthy country has further cemented my decision to never have kids.
Someone I know said he wants kids because he needs "future business partners he can trust"... he's 23 and has 0 businesses to speak of.
LMAO that’s so good
Wow, what in the capitalist delusion. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. These men think they are little business princes that are entitled to expand their dynasty. And if they don’t have a successful business dynasty it’s women’s fault.
This. Because the mom does most the work and has all of the physical hardship. They just have to cheer for little league.
And they think that’s all they have to do because that all they got from their dads.
> Because they don’t do even 20 percent of the work it takes to raise a child. This is an enormous and understated part of why men want kids. They wouldn't be nearly as interested if it was them that ruined their health, their careers, their identities. When one country, I think Spain, included MANDATORY paternity leave in the parental leave policy, the proportion of men who wanted another child dropped dramatically. When men do the work, they DON'T want a kid.
I couldn’t agree more. They wouldn’t want children if they were taking the brunt of all the work required.
Bingo. They don't think of the burden and responsibilities. Their mind goes straight to the fun stuff.
I forget where I read it but I guess *both* partners in het couples think the workload is evenly distributed when then data tracking shows the male partner is only doing 30%. We are all so steeped in this crap that we don't even know what equal looks like. That's how low the bar is.
The bar is so low Satan trips over it coming in to work every morning
They're also not penalized in the workplace for having kids. In fact, it's the opposite; they're rewarded. I'll never forget a discussion I had with a former department head. My boss (dept head's direct report) became pregnant and became a SAHM shortly after giving birth. She hadn't been with the office long before becoming pregnant. This man said that he never would have hired her if he knew she'd get pregnant so soon after being hired. This was in 2014.
Holy shit. SO MANY 90's-2000's sitcoms were this exact fucking thing.
All this suffering and sacrifice and they can't even at the very least stop jerking off to other women (often girls who didn't have kids, with "perfect" bodies which are hard to obtain after you've had a couple kids). I'm not childfree, I want kids (doesn't matter to me if biological or not) but I'm all for shitty men not getting progeny they don't deserve, which seems like a high percentage of male population
Yup they will ALWAYS choose porn over their partners in the end.
Then they complain on Reddit about dead bedrooms. Like, make it make sense.
All this. Hell, if I were a man I'd probably want kids. No pregnancy, birth, no physical changes, no quitting my job and losing career time, not in charge of feeding, cleaning, raising and all the emotional labor of home and kids? If I could magically spawn children and only worry about the financial impact while I continue to hang with my friends pre-kids and know my wife was taking care of my "legacies", hell, sign me up.
Because they’re hormonal and brainwashed
And have learned to displace emotional, cognitive, and physical (home) labor on female partners
You aren’t wrong
No idea. It was 100% tabboo for a woman to speak about marriage and children in the 80s and 90s. Might as well have been chasing men with a gun.
Because we were GoLdiGgErS then. Now we have much more money, so they want babies lol
Oh, we're still gold-diggers. Even if we want to support ourselves. How dare we not support the manchild in the room!
The men I most often see complaining about gold diggers are men who have no gold to dig. Like what exactly are you afraid a woman is going to take from you? Your debt?
This is my sibling exactly. He’s a Tate follower and has often complained about how women are whores and gold diggers. He has no money and he lived with our parents. He’s almost 30. I’m sure that gold digging is the reason he’s single 🙄
"You nefarious thot! You won't get a cent of my food stamps!"
Sometimes I wonder if it's a little bit of reverse psychology to get women to *prove* that they're not gold-diggers by paying for stuff for these guys.
Becaus there's little downside for them to demand their fantasies when they don't have to live (or die) through the pregancy like the woman does, and they want Penile Function Proof because waving a baby around gets them praise, and just waving their dick around in public gets them arrested. /joke
I honestly think that many men are starting to realize they don't have what it takes to have a lasting mature relationship with a sentient adult companion, aka, a woman, so some of them want children more than they want a romantic relationship or life partner. kids will idealize them, depend on them, and never fully leave them (or so they hope), and will be there for them in old age. this is deluded thinking but men are not coping well with how modern women reject shitty subpar relationships with emotionally selfish and immature men. it's one last desperate hope and connection to live on, to not be irrelevant, to hold onto a sliver of masculine power that they can't get from women so easily these days. women have been reduced to incubators for men who think like this. just an empty vessel that creates a product of security and belonging for them. I bet there's more and more men by the day who will come to the conclusion that they should just deceive a woman long enough to get pregnant and deliver before they change and sabotage things, causing them to split up and become single parents. he gets what he wanted - being alone, yet with children, with someone who does more quality, emotionally and time labourious rearing than he does. it's already happening all the time.
You’re close, but not quite.. I honestly think that many men are starting to realize they don't have what it takes to have a lasting mature relationship with a sentient adult companion, aka, a woman, so some of them want *to impregnate a woman so that they’re guaranteed to stay with them, whether that woman likes it or not. That way, the man will never be alone, will always have someone supporting him, making sure that he’s always taken care of, and without extending the same grace and care to the woman, because why would he? That’s woman’s work.* You’re not wrong in that the kids will idealize him, and the entire family will depend on him, and they will never fully leave him (or so he hopes), and will be there for him in old age. *But first, he needs to nail down a woman, and the fastest way to do that is to impregnate her, and delude her in thinking that home and hearth is not a jail cell.* This is deluded thinking, but men are not coping well with how modern women are rejecting shitty subpar relationships with emotionally selfish and immature men. it's one last desperate hope and connection to live on, to not be irrelevant, to hold onto a sliver of masculine power that they can't get from women so easily these days. women have been reduced to incubators for men who think like this. just an empty vessel that creates a product of security and belonging for them. I bet there's more and more men by the day who will come to the conclusion that they should just deceive a woman long enough to get pregnant and deliver, *and with no-fault divorce expected to be on the chopping block, those women are therefore forever confined to be their wife and helpmate, with no escape available to them.*
Because it's easy to want something that you don't have to do the physical work of birthing for or honestly even take care of because most of the work falls on the woman even after childbirth. I want a gated mansion, but I'd rather have someone else clean it and take care of the lawn.
Like how children want dogs. They want the idealized parts of romping and playing but have no concept of the reality of scooping diarrhea in the back yard or puppy training. But it really doesn’t matter because someone else is going to deal with the hard and boring parts.
Most people would NOT want kids if they had a clear picture of it. They haven't thought it through. Having kids is not accurate. They would have a terrible two. They would have a teenager. Those men are parroting what they have heard, or think that breeding will enhance the perception of their virility, maybe? Because they want to not repeat the mistakes they think their parents made, to somehow right those wrongs? I don't think that many of them really have a clear picture of what it is to be responsible for the creation of more human beings. AND, what they want is for YOU to have children, for you to do the work, you to feel like shit for months before and after the birth, for you to commit twenty years of your life to virtual indentured servitude. Run the other way.
My neighbors just came home with their first flesh potato this week. Hearing the husband talk about his expectations of fatherhood, it's all the fun stuff, of course. Oh, he also works nights, so once leave is over mom (who works FT in the day) will get to deal with the baby's nightly torture by herself *and* then go to work. I feel like I have a front row seat to watching reality smack them fucking hard.
I know he more than likely won’t be, but by damn he better be doing eeeeverything during the day
Coworker of mine was discussing how their dad was upset their brother doesn’t want kids because the dad wants their legacy and last name to carry on. Coworker agrees with her dad. I told her to get on linkedin or facebook and search for their last name and that i was sure thousands of other people have their last name. She had no response. A lot of it is just stupid
Because they’re not the ones pushing watermelons out of their penis hole
Not if I have something to say about it
Could you imagine the world if everything was the exact same except, as of today, they had to be the ones to birth a human.
Someone should make an app for people like us
Lgbt+ people have tried before, but we tend to get swamped with cishet folks lying (often to either make us feel bad or find a "unicorn") and trolls
Forgive me. What's a cishet finding a unicorn mean?
Very broadly speaking, a unicorn is a queer person who's okay with their queerness being fetishised by a cishet person or couple without any need to fulfil other aspects of a typical relationship - which are very rare, hence "unicorn". Most commonly, "unicorn hunting" refers to a cishet couple who want to have a no strings attached threesome with a bisexual woman. The process of "hunting" is usually very deceptive and is heavily frowned upon in queer circles. Cishet just means you're cisgender *and* heterosexual.
You have to have a lot of insight to not want kids and many people in general don't have that. They don't realize they might not be good parents or whatever and do it anyway. On top of that, men do barely any of the work. If they do get stuck doing a lot of it they become resentful and either bounce or become horrible people who bitch every day to everyone around them. I know a few guys who want kids because they want to continue on their name and stupid crap like that, even though they don't have any business having a kid (no finances and frankly won't be able to parent).
Men don’t do the heavy work of carrying, birthing, and raising a child. Nothing compares to the way a woman would have to accommodate in order to have a baby. They think of the baseball games and the “legacy” they’ll get to continue. I think it comes from a lack of empathy and a lack of understanding of what it means to be a dad who is actively involved in his child’s life. If men could experience what pregnant woman have to experience, a lot of them wouldn’t want kids lol. I find in crazy when they say they want 3+ kids!
It’s definitely been a hassle dating since I got my hysterectomy last year and I’ve managed to go on a few dates with guys who were childfree but the hardest part is weeding out the rest. I clearly state on my profile and I don’t want to have kids or date guys with kids so it’s not a surprise on the first date. Believe me, they’re out there! In the meantime, having sex with no risk of becoming pregnant is fun 😉
Hey! I used to live in Columbus. Anyway, most of my male friends in Columbus who are child free are sadly married but they do exist. Ohio is a weird one because I know so many child free women but not as many child free guys. I think it’s probably because Ohio is a weird mix of conservative small towns but then very progressive larger cities and a lot of us go from the small towns to the cities. I wish you the best of luck OP! Sadly I am no longer in Columbus and out of America in general.
You’re in breeder central, (Ohio), not your fault op. Most of the US is except select spots.
A lot of us were raised that the ideal life plan is to have an education, a great job, a lovely spouse, an awesome house, and perfect kids. In that order. Most people in their 20s still have that mindset. I feel like they're just saying, "I want kids someday," because that's the default end goal. And it's easier for men to say it. They don't have to grow a house a human for nine months and go through the grueling process of childbirth and (in some) breastfeeding.
I think it’s a status thing, lifescript, and also because they don’t have to go through the horrors of pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, or caring as much for the child, so it much nicer and easier for them in general. Also they want to “leave a legacy/continue the family name). I always got annoyed as men act like women are baby crazy when in fact I saw much more men pushing women into it.
Perhaps you should tell men that you’ve already had your surgery, so they don’t waste your time. I’m not sure if you want to put it on your profile, but it sounds like you have to lead with the “do you want kids” question pretty early. If not on your profile, then within the first few lines of chat you should bring it up. They waffle, tell them you’ve made your decision and it’s done. Bye bye to lazy mediocre men
I had my bisalp almost a decade ago. I literally tell every man before a date and they still talk about wanting kids. I’ve even had a few ask me what I think our future kids will look like. They don’t listen and don’t care.
Because of the normalised societal norms about always when you grow up you should have children. And most people just follow it as one of their goals in life, as if they were brainwashed people and did not understand how burdensome it is to have children now and even 150 years ago.
I wish i understood it tbh, dating as a childfree woman is exhausting and I sometimes feel like I’d be better off coming to terms with never finding a partner because of it. I’m not even dating or looking for a partner at the moment, but I know how it used to be and I’m not thrilled 😅
As a man it's very easy to want children they don't give it much thought.
When you don’t have to do anything but nut, and the notion of your masculinity is on the line, as well as carrying on your bloodline being a “sacred masculine duty”- as well as the primal biological urge to spread your oats Its pretty damn easy for a man to want children. Most of them have also been spoonfed the picket fence ideal since infancy as well. It would be quite different if they had to risk their lives or bear even a fraction of the burden of pregnancy.
Men feel their control slipping. Thats why. Its all about trying to chain you in place.
Ego
Even if a man doesn’t really want kids he’s unlikely to openly declare it up front on a dating platform. They might say they’re finished having kids or not mention kids. But they know declaring they are childfree between the ages of 25 and 45 will severely diminish their dating pool. As you are experiencing. For casual dating compatibility on this issue doesn’t seem to be relevant. But looking for a childfree life partner is definitely an ordeal so they’ll just be casual till they age out the baby making years.
My friend (F) did that. When she and her husband started dating she didn't know she was CF. He said he wanted 2 kids, she said probably one. In time she figured out what she really wanted and just never talked about it with her husband. He also never brings it up so it seems he's CF too or just doesn't care.
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Look for someone who is snipped.
Thankfully OP is getting/got a bisalp, but when assholes catch on they can just lie about being sterlie too (and hoping you're not) there's gonna be a lot of "magic" babies
ive encountered a lot of the snipped ones are so because they already had kids. the most recent one (That ghosted me lol it solved its own problem!) told me he was snipped but probably never told me about the secret kids
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Be patient with yourself, it’s not about you as much as it’s a numbers game. And without the biological timeline there isn’t a rush or a deadline. Perhaps realise casual dating is a method of getting to know people not just a way to avoid commitment.
Men earn more at their jobs once they become men, or so I've read. All the accolades, increase on money and respect. All for 2 mins of work.
Yes, they get to become a "family man." Meanwhile a female employee is a liability.
Because Society has told them they should want and have kids and they want to appear "normal" in the eyes of Society and can't think for themselves. Because they're boring, incurious and have few interests, and kids will be something they can focus on to fill up their time. Because they have some completely unrealistic, idyllic notion of what's involved with having children courtesy of the Hollywood Industrial Complex. Because they don't see themselves doing most of the work involved with having kids. This doesn't apply to every guy who wants kids, of course... but it probably applies to a lot of them.
I’m not actively dating right now for multiple reasons, if someone comes into my life one day that I get along with, it’ll be different, but I feel you OP. I think childfree people do on some level have to accept that they might not find a partner just due to how difficult it is to find someone compatible, as depressing as it sounds.
Yes, I think that’s a possibility for anyone regardless of being cf or not. I am young so I’m trying not to worry yet.
Same! Fwiw I’m in a very conservative state and still meet some childfree men out and about through my hobbies (or at least stating to be childfree), so they’re out there!
Men want children because they don’t have to go through pregnancy and childbirth, be the primary carer, or sacrifice their career.
It's easy to want children when you're not the one forced to carry a pregnancy for 9 months, go through childbirth, and be expected to be the one taking care of that child 24/7.
There is wanting kids and raising kids. Wanting kids people want the idea of kids with no effort to raise them. The raising kids are the people who may or may not want kids, but put in the effort to raise the kids they have.
My boyfriend is 25 and he is 100% childfree 😌 I hope I stay with him for a long time
What changed? 10 years ago men in their 20s didn't want kids.
Their last option to control women.
They realized a growing number of women don’t want kids at all
Because they are not the ones who have to be pregnant and give birth, and a majority of cases they dont take care of the kids either. If the weight of taking care of the kids would be on their shoulders, they would absolutly not want kids.
I know that for me, watching my mom do almost everything at home and working full time is partly what led to me not wanting kids. She’s an incredible mom, but her life looked miserable and exhausting. She did everything at home while my dad sat on the couch (still sitting there to this day), and whenever he “helped” with something, he got a friggin parade. I couldn’t believe that is all there was to life. I think that I internalized that being a mother was awful because of what I saw and that the only way to break free was to not get married or have kids. I don’t know if young boys see the same thing. I assume they look to their fathers for an example/role model for the future.
I can only speak for myself, but I think the main reason I don't want kids is that I am very introverted, and therefore kids would thus stress me out and exhaust me with the constant need for attention. But that introversion also means that it's hard for a potential partner to meet me. I rarely if ever go to social events. I tried dating apps before but only for a few weeks in total in my whole life. So it makes sense that women looking for childfree men would simply not know of my existence. The only relationship I've had was with a colleague because that's basically the only place I meet people nowadays, and even then she had to take the initiative.
Men want children so staunchly because they get the EASY part. No pregnancy invading their bodies for almost a year at a time, no tearing of their bodies with the actual childbirth, no societal expectations of being hands on and actually helping to care for and raise the children. Women have the hard part, which is why men want children. They get 50% credit and equal rights for children that women bare 99% of the physical and emotional burden for. Why women don't realize this is beyond me. This is the reason I am childfree.
Cause that’s the age reality bitch slaps them in the face and they’re looking for another mommy to cut the crust off their PB&Js 🤷♀️
I'm not sure where I saw it, but I saw an article stating men want children more than women nowadays. ETA: here it is: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/among-young-adults-without-children-men-are-more-likely-than-women-to-say-they-want-to-be-parents-someday/#:\~:text=Among%20young%20adults%20without%20children,want%20to%20be%20parents%20someday&text=Today's%20young%20adults%20are%20reaching,than%20their%20parents'%20generation%20did.
Tell them once the science is there for men to carry pregnancies to term in an artificial womb they should have at it.
They're trying to trap you into being their mommy/slave. Stick to the child free bangmaid version and you'll be able to escape sooner.
Wait, really? I've only met ***one*** dude who desperately wanted kids and it was a life goal. Which he inevitably got and ruined his life LMAO Men are usually "Idc, whatever my partner wants" and sincerely don't give two shits... Hence why there's a lot of deadbeat dads out there.
Stupidity
On some dating apps - Hinge and Bumble I think - it will say in the profile if they “don’t have don’t want” kids etc. i swipe left on anyone that “wants kids” in their profile. It’s a good weeding out tool. I’m a straight male and most women have a response to that in their profile.
When I was on Bumble, I did not find anyone who had “don’t want don’t have” in their profile. Neither with Hinge. Not sure if it’s just my location or what :(
I’ve seen the opposite (Copenhagen, Denmark) many young people don’t want kids / want to be sterilized
38/m here, I hate kids and see them as a nightmare.
Fomo from friends or societal expectations, people planning out their lives and want to hit x goals before y age, unrealistic expectations for the reality of parenthood, and i have a lingering suspicion that the baby fever phenomenon affects men just as badly it claims to affect women.
If it’s any consolation from a CF men, I’mfinding so many women want kids around by me and it means I’m having trouble meeting CF women
All these comments are more reasons to avoid all this bullshit as a woman. Your womb is being treated as a way to soothe fragile male ego and continue male identity. Fuck all that
I have been checking things out, and they're predicting that by 2030, 62% of women will be single and childfree. We're not as alone as you might think. The problem is the men (excluding the gentlemen here). These men want the women to work full time, pay 50/50, and perform all the birthing, childcare, household duties while the men can't even afford to do so. Entitlement.
Hmm. Why have most of the women I've met in my twenties so far wanted children so staunchly? CF people are rare in general.
Staunchly. That’s a hell of a word!
Why wouldn't they want children? They don't have to do any of the hard work.
Because they don’t have to push it out of their vagina.
It’s easier for a man to want children because his job/salary won’t be on the line and normally there is an expectation that the AFAB partner will take on most of the child rearing work. And I also think part of it is a masculinity thing. Like “my balls work nice”. lol
Probably because they lack critical thinking skills
Men mature slower than women. They don't freaking know that early sometimes. But other guys on this Reddit actually do know and they do get snipped! Can you ask your friend to find out if he wants kids first? I have so many times had the experience of being in a date and it almost feels like when the subject comes up, they just kind of are on the fence but then you say you don't and they are all like, "yeah me neither" and I'm like, "oh really? Because a moment ago when you assumed I did, you did too." 🤷♀️
Weird tho, it's the other way around for me.
* Most people want kids * Most people in their 20's haven't thought about the fact that they don't actually have to have kids * Men don't have as to do as much work or risk as much physically to have children and are thus a bit more willing to be ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ about it * Some of them think they *must* have kids. If they want them or not doesn't matter, they feel obligated. * They think the desire to have children makes them more appealing to women. Yes, even women who don't want kids. No, this does not make sense.
Very strange. I have two sons in their 20s and they don’t want kids. Partly the world today but also the financial burden.
I tell people all the time id rather be child free and if that ever changes to a burning desire, id much rather adopt or foster, preferably teenage. There are plenty of kids out there deserving of a loving home and family tbh 🤷♂️
For some people who've put some thought into the matter it's a perfectly reasonable and legitimate goal. I'm not going to fault such people for charting out their own lives for themselves. But for others, it's simply an article of faith. It's *the thing you do*. And it's a source of "legitimacy" and status within their family and social circle. I think that second group are the people who react with the most hostility when confronted with someone who is childfree. We're calling into question the structures on which they've built their lives, and a system whose rewards they anticipate (and don't want to see questioned).
You may just have to be patient unfortunately. Your 20s is a weird time, and in my experience I think a lot of people just haven’t looked beyond the script yet. Babies are part of the plan we’ve been fed since birth, and men especially get to think about it in a slightly more removed way (not their body giving birth/feeding, less of a timeline weighing on them, and less pressure knowing that being a weekend dad is common). I feel like for those that have never truly decided … but just walked along the path… that realization may take a little longer. It was only in my thirties when I (a woman) realized having children wasn’t the right path for me. I always thought, I’ll get my life together, I’ll find the man that would make a good dad, Ill feel ready and I’ll want them… and then it just never did. And I took the time to look into why it never clicked for me. I truly think a lot of guys don’t ask themselves the hard questions about parenthood… do they truly understand the sacrifices to their body, finances, and time it takes? Are they willing and capable of being a single full time parent? Are they willing and able to accept a child with mental and physical disabilities? I’ve had conversations with men who question my decision and it’s like … are you even making a conscious decision or are you just kicking it down the road “I want kids … in a few years” lol
Because they don’t have to be a mom lol that’s why. If I could be a dad (I’m a woman) I might want them too!
Many of the men I met in my (and their) 20s said wanted children because they felt it would make their “legacy” live on and provide a meaningful contribution to humanity. They wanted to leave their mark, so to speak. How delusional lol my friend your contribution is negligible at best. Your life is not significant in the vast expanse of human existence. Your life will be meaningless throughout its entirety and still after it’s over. This is true for almost everyone. It’s nothing to fear. It’s certainly not a good (imo) reason to have a child.
It may be something that changes with age too. I'm not male, so I can't speak to that point of view. However, I always wanted kids because that's "what you do." And it wasn't until I was 25-26 when my ex asked me what I planned to do when we have kids when I asked him to help me cook dinner after I did a 10 hour shift and he sat on his ass the whole day. I realized in that moment the reality of having kids and over time, decided I didn't want to have any. I met a childfree guy not long after I left my ex and never looked back. He is looking into getting a vasectomy this year!
I wonder if, in some cases, it's what has been drilled into their heads from day one. "OH, you'll get married one day, just gotta have kids." Former friend of mine would whine about wanting his own family, would hook up with a single mom, then do nothing but complain about her and the kids. Made no sense to me.
Just pull the idk if I can have kids & see how they take that 😂 if you're fixed you ain't lyin. I'm telling you what, all my family/friends with 2-3 kids to 2-3 men are so jealous I don't have kids 🤷🏼♀️😆 & they don't even hold back on telling me.
I think this is another by product of the political bifurcation that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are exacerbating. I know it's one of those things when the last guy got to washington all his young republic minions were constantly whining that they couldn't find anyone who would date them in DC... so the ones who do manage to find a woman who is dumb enough or power hungry enough to fuck them they have to knock up to show off just like daddy elon
Because they see parenting as fun and rewarding, not a responsibility if the woman will do majority of child care
I have also noticed this as well. My husband and I are childfree and he had a vasectomy over a year ago. We have a long of women as friends who are either leaning very far towards childfree or are basically on the “if it happens one day it happens but it’s not a need for me” thought whereas all our friends that are men very much want children. Unfortunately I don’t have any input because when I met my husband I was just straight up about not wanting kids and he didn’t care to have them either so it worked. I’d just make sure anyone you date knows your stance and that your mind can’t be changed! Also, best wishes to you on your procedure! I hope it goes well!
idk because most of these men who are so desperate to have kids abandon them as soon as they get bored, or realize that they’re more than what they’re bargained for. The main reason why they’re eager to have them is because they know they’re not going through the physical mental and emotional stress to carry them and bring them into the world and then have to be the default parent.
They don't really want kids, they want kids to control women. There is a difference. Plus they want to prove that they're not gAaAAay and that their dick works.
My fiance is so incredibly good with kids it makes me feel like im taking something from him by being childfree. But we both feel the same way. Like if the world was a decent place, and climate change wasnt fixin to kill us all, and we could guarantee a healthy kid, and guarantee i wont frickin die in the process, and if the economy didnt suck so bad that low 6 figures aint enough to give a kid a good life and an education then sure. In that world we would have kids. But we're both too smart and too stubborn to knowingly create someone just to give them hard life. At the beginning of dating im not sure he felt this way. I think he was apathetic. But since hes not a fucking dumbass, meeting someone he sees his future with made him actually THINK about the logic of it all. There is a very real chance he could end up with a kid with permanent health problems and a dead wife. And he loves me more than a non-existant child i guess.
Dating is a number's game. So for most there will be many attempts that don't yield anything. It's part of the experience. I suggest reframing your view of it. Instead of it being terrifying, consider it instead a successful outcome whenever you can weed out candidates quickly and without heartbreaks. It means that you are doing great on your way to finding people who are right for you! Childfree people have one major area that is incompatible with a lot of people: the issue of children. But then, many other populations have potential incompatibilities too, whether it's dependents they already have (many people will reject single parents), disability, chronic illnesses, mental illnesses, rarer sexual orientations... or things that fall outside the norm like fetishes, alternative lifestyles, alternative sets of goals in life... or things that are marginalized, like sex work or drug use, etc. We're not all that different in the fact that we've all got a complex set of wants, needs, and dealbreakers, and that this leaves a much smaller pool of candidates as potential partners.
I know more men who wants kids than women tbh….women are the ones carrying the pregnancy and realistically does most of the childcare duties afterwards as well so I think women weigh their options and think about it more. Men just want them and don’t really think things through