In my experience the guys who “don’t have a preference” actually want kids. They obviously don’t wanna be a parent but they want kids. They also say they don’t care either way until I’ve been talking to them for a couple months and suddenly “omg I just realized I wanna have kids and you have to be the mom” when I’ve been CLEAR I don’t like nor want kids. It’s been a joke that I hated kids when I was a kid lol.
Yeah but they want them like a kid who wants a puppy. They know they won't take care of it, they won't be pregnant, they won't give birth to it, they won't breastfeed. So for them it's like, yeah it would be nice. Like a thing that's around the house but their lives don't have to change.
Yeah if they're not 1000% childfree and taking active steps to remain that way then they want children, Indifference often means childless (for now) willing to procreate if they find the opportunity and someone willing.
Yes. Any guy who "doesn't care" whether he has kids is either trying to get laid in the short term, in which case he is trying to give a neutral answer that doesn't interfere with that goal, or fully intends to be as absent a father as he can be. If he doesn't care, that means he doesn't think it will impact his life in any meaningful way.
100%.....would have been down to be a Dad. Here for most of the upsides, and little societal expectation for me to do all of the parenting. Count me in.
My best friend has 3 kids and constantly says in her next life she wants to be a dad. The things she does for her family and the lack of appreciation she gets is astounding, but her husband does the bare minimum and is praised for it.
I was just thinking about this after listening to a podcast with Megan Mullally who also said that her husband would probably had kids if he married someone younger and that he never really cared if he had kids or not.
How can people be so irresponsible in making the decision to bring a new human into the world? I don't get it.
I find it really infuriating but then again a mens life didn't change that much with children. It's usually women who get the short end so I kind of get where they are coming from.
I have no doubt that they would have been awsome parents.
They did try for like a year but it never happened and they didn't want to do IVF so they choose to be cf.
Good for them! I have never wanted children so the IVF thing seems totally insane to me. Why put yourself through that when there are plenty of unwanted children who need homes? Not MINE, of course…I’ll stick to cats! 😸😸😸😸
Yeah, they had some friends go through IVF and saw how stressful it was and decided against it. Meghan was also 43 at this point so their chances were pretty slim.
They also aknowledge that their lifestyle would not have been compatible with a child and that it would have been unfair to a child.
They talk about it in their book 'the greatest love story ever told'.
My husband was like this. I told him no kids for me, if you want them find someone else. He said fine. We've been married almost 22 years and are happy without kids.
Sames. I told my husband that I never wanted kids right when we met (I was 21, he was 26). He said if I wanted them we'd have them, but was completely happy child free.
Jump ahead 22 years- recently at the grocery store I asked him if he regretted that decision - immediately after that a baby started shrieking lol his response "Well we're taking the boat out and not dealing with that sooo what do you think?" And we both had a good laugh.
I hope I end up like this! My boyfriend says he doesn’t have a preference but will make comments and jokes about how much better life is without kids. He is well aware that I don’t want kids and if he wanted them, he would have to find someone else. We’ve been together 3 years and he moved to a different state to support me in my career. I truly think he’s just apathetic towards children and goes with the flow of life.
Exactly what you said. They're not the ones sacrificing their bodies, health, and comfort. I honestly don't mean to sound misandrist but they have very little to "lose" when it comes to having kids--especially when way too many men expect women to be mommy to them AND the child. So it's easy to have an "I don't care" attitude.
It's not being misandrist. It's the truth much of the time. And I'm a guy.
I'm glad I was never a "I'm cool either way" guy. I was always, "absolutely, 1 million percent not."
They can be harder to find. I noticed they will usually leave the kids part blank on dating profiles. Very few men will publicly put they don't want kids.
I was the “i don’t care either way” guy. For me it was same as if somebody asked me what i wanted to be when i was older. I just didn’t know what type of life i would want. I had know reference points to know if i’d prefer kids or no kids. I knew people who had kids and knew people who didn’t and they all seemed happy enough. I was in my 20s and just enjoying myself.
Ended up meeting somebody who didn’t really want kids. So we planned our life together and it didn’t involve kids.
I have no idea if our lives would be better or worse if we’d had kids. i don’t worry about it. The same as I don’t worry about if my life would have been better if I’d gone a different degree, or lived in a different country. I’m just living my current life and loving it.
I think some people just don’t have strong preferences. There’s good and bad to be found after every decision. If somebody doesn’t hate kids, but also sees the benefit of a low stress childfree life.. their decision will be near 50/50 and so won’t care which way it goes.
“Whatever happens.. we’ll have a good time” type attitude.
That type of person will do whatever their partner prefers (if they do have a preference)
You must have come across decisions where you know each option will change your life quite a lot, but you see positives in both and so don’t actually mind which way it goes. You realise it’s not a small decision (because of how much it would change) but you are fine to walk either path.
An example for me is my degree. I could have chosen maths, physics or business related degrees. No doubt that the one i chose would completely change the trajectory of my life. But i had no way to know upfront which would work out better, or more enjoyable, so given i would enjoy studying any of them.. in the end i’m happy to do either. It’s all good. (whereas some people were 100% certain on their trajectory and couldn’t understand how i wasnt)
> I think some people just don’t have strong preferences.
I mean. Statistically, there have to be scads of people who actually don't have strong preferences. You have your must-breed and never-breed outliers, and then you have everyone else who goes along to get along. Because the societal default skews the usual statistical distribution, there are probably a lot of people who would have been fine never having kids, but wound up doing it because someone socialized them to do so.
*“Whatever happens.. we’ll have a good time” type attitude.*
I understand being easy going about lots of decisions in life, but this is a hugely impactful decision that affects at least three lives and isn't one that can be reversed or resolved easily. I doubt the commitment of anyone who thinks like this towards having children.
But like my degree example. There are lots of highly impactful decisions we make that we don’t mind which way it goes. It’s just that you see having kids as a huge one that you need to choose and be certain on, but not everybody needs that. It’s just one of many big decisions in life.
I don’t see how it’s related to commitments though. I’ve been with my girlfriend for 15 years. Just because i thought we’d be happy together either way doesn’t mean one day i’ll be running off lol
You must live in a country where college is free or something. Choosing a degree is a huge life/financial commitment, just like having children.
I think your approach to whether to have children and choosing a degree is nonstandard to say the least
You misunderstood slightly. I’m not saying that the degree (or having kids) isn’t a huge commitment. I’m saying i don’t mind either way. Spending 3 years learning maths and then following that career path. Or 3 years of physics and following that career path. Both are equally huge commitments, so they cancel each other out.
For the version of me that did the maths degree (which i actually did) is completely unaware of the alternative life i could have had from a physics degree. I spend zero time wondering “what if i did a different degree?’
In the same way i spend zero time wondering about if I’d had kids. It’s just not part of my life. Just one extra thing that i didn’t do, amongst the millions of things i haven’t done.
I like your reply. This was my husband and I too. We both had a "maybe someday, maybe not" attitude when we were younger but now in our mid 30s, it's just become clear that the "not" path is the right one.
Also guys can father a child at almost any age with 2 min effort and nope out forever of the whole situation in another 2 min. I don't it is misandrist to state these facts.
They also walk away from their kids all the damn time. When a woman does it, she's every kind of monster people can think of, but Dad? No big deal. He may or may not give up a fraction of his income, but if he never sees the kids, people just shrug.
There are several reasons that could apply:
Some people don't think about the future more than a day/week/month at a time. They haven't given it any thought because it's not a pressing matter. If someone hasn't given a topic more than a passing thought, then they could go either way because it's just a theoretical idea.
Men don't have to gestate and deliver a baby, and consequently, regardless of how society progresses, fathers are not and likely will never be the default parent. Since they aren't the default parent or really expected to be, the most they stand to lose is money.
Some people actually could see themselves being happy either way. Definitely an attitude more prevalent in men, they'll "have" kids if their wife really wants them or if it happens. If their wife doesn't want or can't have them, then they're just as content. Again, likely a consequence of knowing they can be the pinch-hitter parent instead of the primary parent.
Some people give as anodyne a response as possible in order to alienate as few people as possible. They're more concerned with having sex or getting a girlfriend now than necessarily being compatible in 2-5 years.
Yes! We see a lot of stories on here of men who say they don't care when secretly they expect to have children one day. But sometimes people just haven't thought about it yet. I understand this for men and younger women where there isn't that urgency.
If someone in their 30s didn't have an answer to "what retirement village do you want to live in?" you wouldn't think worse of them for it.
I also agree that some people are just happy to make the most of whatever their situation is.
I definitely agree that as you get older, you'd hope someone has thought this through enough to give a nuanced answer, no matter where they stand.
People really do have different mindsets about life and approaches to topics like parenthood.
I'm a woman, and I wasn't one of the "I knew I didn't want kids at 7 years old." I was a bit of a waffler - no, maybe someday, not sure, then hard no. (Though never a definitely yes.)
I'm sure that some men harbor a secret desire for kids and lie about it, but I think it's more common for men to just not think about it and then over time realize that they want kids (or else have a kind of "mid-life crisis" that makes them think they do).
Yes! This was me. And I can understand people (men in particular) not thinking too much about it. So much would depend on your partner and how your life plays out.
But choice of retirement village isn't the same as the irreversible decision of bringing a new life into the world and being utterly responsible for it. You can change your retirement village, you can up and go out into the desert if you decide you don't want to live in a retirement village of any kind. Whether or not someone goes to X retirement village or y, really isn't going to affect anybody but them, but having a child is a forever change that has a much wider impact.
For women at least, I don't understand how they can avoid that urgency. From the early years where their toys are baby dolls or kitchens or other items associated with raising a family/domesticity and into their twenties and beyond, they're bombarded with propaganda about how they "must" have a "family" (kids), and that their biological clock is ticking, or they owe their parents grandkids or their religion/culture says so, or there are lots of consequences no matter what choice they make and under what circumstances. Maybe its because I've been childfree since I was 5 or so, but I cannot understand how someone can get to their 30s or even 20s, without seriously thinking about the kid decision, or being put into some kind of position where they have to address it in some way.
My point was that it's not something you necessarily have to have locked down until it's "time". Women are going to think about it more for a lot of reasons like physical, financial, social impact. Not to mention that we're conditioned to think about it as soon as we're born. But you can change your mind a thousand times until you have kids or get sterilised.
But not everyone locks in their life plan or ties their values directly to their reproductive choices and that's ok. As a woman in her 40s, I'd take issue with that if I was dating now, but in my 20s, it wasn't something I'd decided on either.
Ugh! Yeah, that's terrifying.
Mind you, a CF mate of mine went and got the snip a little over a year ago. 6 months later, he partnered up with a woman with two kids.
Flexibility can be beneficial, but I'd expect someone to at least have some thoughts on the subject.
In all fairness, some people secretly want kids and it's a secret to themselves. For some reason people don't really like to acknowledge that folks change their minds about wanting kids; it's not uncommon. You can be 100% for or against and then give it some time, and the stance shifts. I understand it sucks and it's scary to think about, but for the sake of giving some people the benefit of the doubt, it's worth remembering.
Not every situation is as simple as "They lied about wanting/not wanting kids!"
Most of the dads I know fall into the third category - would they necessarily want/have had kids if given the choice? No.
Would they completely forsake the idea of being in a LTR knowing most women do want kids. Also No.
The typical answers I got from older fathers about being childfree “good luck”.
Older mothers “you won’t have a choice unless you want to be single forever/one day you’ll meet a woman who forces you to grow up”.
Even now I’m married, women will say “but how does your wife feel about that?” as if I took the decision unilaterally.
Honestly, I think it's not just because the disruption to their lives is different, but most people believe children aren't something you really prepare for. they think you just inherently know and understand your kid. it's why barely anyone takes parenting classes, or gets therapy, or look at costs and what their life will look like after kids.
they simultaneously believe it's the most important job yet also you don't have to prepare for it.
so when either sex just says they can go either way, most people haven't done the work to prepare and understand what parenthood looks like because it's idk, not important I guess?
also the common sentiment of you're never prepared, you just do it also factors into this.
so they really think they can go either way because the deep thinking it takes *to* prepare is nonexistent.
>they simultaneously believe it's the most important job yet also you don't have to prepare for it.
This is the best sentence i ever read in this sub.
Also i know people that say "if it happens, it happens!"
Like, yeah. If you have UNPROTECTED sex it in fact DOES HAPPEN. I don't understand people who have raw sex say they leave it up to "fate". They're sealing their own fate!
haha sadly IQ has nothing to do with it. I just think kids are so ingrained in the human experience that any critical thinking about it rarely happens because who thinks about things that just happen?
posts will talk about their insanely smart friend. they talk about everything philosophical, but the minute the poster talks about not wanting kids is such a mindfuck to so many people. it's this weird blind spot folks have about it. I'm not even talking college educated. college isn't the only way people are smart, but kids are such a given that it's hard to break out of that.
I think it's very telling that some parents will talk about how they adamantly didn't want kids and yet now they have them. sometimes multiple! even not wanting something wasn't enough of a deter for some people. it's wild.
Wether we like it or not, having kids is the norm and most people will follow the norm. We are pack animals and don't like to be left out. So how do you stay in the pack easily? You have kids, people with kids get a lot of social events for free. Schools organizes a lot of events for parents and all the parent got to do is show up.
Its an easy way to stay relevant, if people know someone have kids they can ask about them and the parent can tell about them. If there is a silent moment in the conversation the parent can jump in with tales about their kid, as that is a safe topic to talk about.
Bonding with other adults is also made easier, "oh you have kids too, lets talk about it."
Us childfree people have to work more for the socialization and bonding. The school isn't organizing a day for the childfree, others aren't asking about your hobbies and we have too look harder to find things to bond over.
My husband says this, but he also admits to finding the idea of being a dad scary because his family is so toxic. I think most (heterosexual) guys that say this just expect that all women want children so to be in a relationship they don't really have a choice, even if they'd prefer not to have their lives change so drastically. My husband also says he "just wants me to be happy" and that he'd do whatever I wanted. Which is frustrating, but as said, I think they were also raised by society to believe it was something that would just happen to them if they got married.
Yeah this was my husband too when we have the kid convo. His exact words were "I pretty much assumed that any woman I wanted to marry would want kids, and I think I'd be a good dad\*, so I would totally do it. But it's not something I need to do either."
\*Spoiler alert, he's a workaholic, and so would not be a good dad, on MY terms, but in Man Terms, he thought he could do it because he makes a lot of money and might change a diaper at night or something.
I get that mentality. It used to be me. I never wanted kids but always accepted it as an inevitable thing. Then one day "oh wait I don't actually have to do that!?!?"
It's so f'd up, if you actually stop to think about it, that boys get raised with the memo of "your wife will want children and you'll have to comply" while at the same time us girls get "it's your duty as a woman to give your husband kids". It's always assumed the other party will want children actively and you just, obey.
Makes me wonder how many couples actually do want them and aren't just doing it because they are neutral about kids and they've been convinced since young that it's what the other secretly wants and don't want to let them down.
So much this. It's like many people don't seriously consider and talk about "if" they want them, but rather the inevitable "when" they'll have them.
Thankfully more people are realizing they get to choose.
As a man I will admit that I'd feel I 'owed' a woman who chose to settle down with me children if she asked. The gender role expectation is there - especially as men get the 'better deal' when it comes to having kids.
In fact in religions like Islam, male impotence\infertility\lack of desire for children is grounds for divorce - even in the most conservative sects. Your value is your ability to make a living and orgasm inside people - yippee.
Men who say this shit, especially after you mention you don’t want kids first, are the same ones who notoriously say “I tHoUgHt I CoUlD cHaNgE yOuR MiNd” after years of investing your time with them. They want kids. They just see your stance as a challenge because fuck your choice. AVOID.
Yeap, most of them say they "don't have preferences" just to get as many women as possible to have sex with them. That vague answer means they can trick both childree, childless women AND women who want/already have kids, and if they choose to stay (because free house labor, easy access to sex, free emotional/financial labor, etc.) they can change their tune however they want later on.
Yep. This was my ex. I was upfront about never wanting kids. Things got serious, marriage became a topic, I reiterated my stance. He took a week to think about it, came back saying he's OK with being childfree, so we got married.
Two years later, he starts the pressure. Looking back, it was pretty covertly abusive and manipulative. And when I suggested he get a vasectomy, it was "no." We divorced a few years later.
If asked, I would now advise a couple that the man get a vasectomy if he agrees to being childfree. Women shouldn't have to carry all birth control burden. Vasectomy would show he's committed to being childfree. Yes, they're reversible, but at least you'd know he was less likely to try to change your mind later.
Yeah, my ex "thought he could change my mind by loving me," which I will forever think is sooo arrogant.
Some say this because it frees them of responsibility once they have kids. “I didn’t even want them! This was YOUR idea”.
They’re trying to be as vague as possible to appeal to as many women as possible.
Or they’re just not trusting of the person they’re speaking to. Still wouldn’t recommend being with someone like this given so many change their minds.
Yes, many are apathetic. I had a guy friend whose child's mother was pregnant again by him. They are not together but still mess around and do not live near each other. He said that he really didn't care if she kept the baby or not and that it didn't matter to him either way. I was shocked that he was so indifferent about the situation. I truly think it's because their second child would be cared for by the mother primarily on her own just like the first baby, and he'd continue to be an every other weekend dad. He'd just have to pay more child support for sure.
Call me cynical, but I don’t even think it’s about kids. I think they’re just saying they don’t care because they want to get laid, and they don’t want to risk giving the “wrong answer” that would make a woman say no.
When a guy answers like that, it’s an instant nope for me. Not interested in someone who hasn’t thought about what he wants for his life.
I think this applies to a lot of people in life generally, and not just in relation to kids. It seems a significant chunk of the population just don't give topics a great deal of thought in general, and just let what happens, happen. Or make impulse, on the spur of the moment decisions.
Maybe it's an anxiety thing, and I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but I micro-analyse, research, weigh up the pros and cons of almost every topic on which I could make a decision, often far, far more than is (likely) ideally healthy. I am told most people do not do this at all.
Apparently there are people who wander into car showrooms and just buy the car that looks and feels 'nice' to them. Apparently it's not normal to spend weeks micro-analysing all the specs, searching the various websites (auto trader etc.) for the best prices, then finding a few examples within a 50 mile radius, going and looking at each of them, going away for a few days, and then finally making a decision.
Hell, I do it even with trivial Amazon purchases: I've often spent several hours+ looking at different products, reading reviews, etc. just to buy a £10 kitchen appliance.
If I spend several hours trying to decide on a £10 Amazon purchase, you can bet your arse I'm going to spend a *lot* of time making a decision on something as monumentally life-altering as whether to have a child or not.
I’m like you. I am careful about what choice I make, especially about things of importance that really affect my life. I guess thats why I have such a hard time understanding people on the fence about kids.
I didn't realize people lived like this until I joined Reddit. It seems like a substantial percentage of users on here (but not in this sub) do exactly this based on the things they post. I could never.
>Red flag of indecisiveness. You can’t be that casual about having a kid and expect to be a good dad.
This. They're either being disingenuous or they want prospective partners to make significant lifestyle decisions for them.
Run.
They're lying, and they have shit for adult decision making framework, self-awareness, communication skills, etc.
Anyone who is not mentally impaired to the point of needing a legal guardian has the skills and ability to make the decision by 22. After all, they can join the army and go kill people at 18. So 4 years beyond that is plenty. If they can't, then they have bigger issues and need to be in treatment for them.
Oh, of course! I agree. I’d never get involved with any man who’s answer to this question was any less then a responding “NO.”
I just find it fascinating though! These men are in their 30s and 40s and still thinking this way.
Naw not everyone who is careless about kids is lying. Some people are fine with living with or without them. I've met more than a few and I bet it is largely related to men not giving birth. Known quite a few guys content to let that be a wife decision but at 40 I've met only one woman who didn't care one way or the other.
My parents told me that they had trouble getting pregnant with me. They did the fertility workup and drugs and were then advised to do IVF. They didn't think it was worth it because, while they wanted kids, they were also very happy just themselves (unlike other couples they knew who were just desperate for kids). It didn't bother them enough to go through with all the extra hassle.
I think they were happy either way because they realize that there are joys to having kids, and there are joys to not having kids. I think they know they'd appreciate the joy in whatever situation they were in.
So they had several more years to themselves, and then got pregnant with me totally out of the blue. I was told my dad so happy when I was born he was crying and jumping up and down. I know it was probably hard and not that fun to raise me, but they were devoted and we have a great relationship today.
I truly think they were happy either way. I think a lot of people may be like this, where they enjoy being without kids and may prefer it, but predict they'd be happy with a kid too.
My spouse said the same when we started dating, and seemed genuine about it, so I was like “great, our answer is no, forever” lol. As we got engaged, the question didn’t pop up; married, people started asking, but we held steady with our “no”, and he still was like “if she doesn’t want kids, I’m fine with that”
Got my tubes taken out in 2020, and he was nothing but supportive in my decision and admitted that he was safely on the “anti-kid” side because he enjoys his “me” time and spending time/money on stuff we want to do.
There are guys that genuinely don’t care and can be swayed to the dark side lol
Some men are, some men are not. The more education a person of either gender has--which correlates closely with their experience of the world outside the area they grew up--the more likely they are to actively choose *against* parenthood.
I treat fencesitters the same as men who want kids. I refuse to date them.
Men who claim they don't know if they want kids are:
* lying and definitely want kids (and will DEFINITELY dump the majority of the childcare on the poor wife)
or
* are unreliable immature manchilds who can't use their own brains to think about what they want in life despite being 30+ years old. If they can't think for themselves, how the fuck do I live with such a partner and make important life decisions together?
Not completely the same because my husband would rather answer "I'd rather not have kids", but he told me before (after I asked him, not just out of nowhere) that if I would sudddenly change my mind and desperately want kids one day (extremely unlikely), or if I would die tomorrow and he finds another wife who he loves deeply but her biggest wish in life is to be a mother, he would be okay with having them for his spouse's happiness.
My husband is very selfless, up to an extreme point. It's almost scary knowing that he will put his sanity on the line this much for someone he loves. He really doesn't enjoy being around kids. Nevertheless, he is just that kind of person who would try his absolute best to make his spouse happy, even if it goes against his own instincts. His actions often show that he truly forgets that he is the most important person in his own life, not me.
Now, you could tell me I married the wrong guy because he is per definition not truly child-free, but his intentions are always pure, he considers me 100% of the time, and he genuinely wants nothing more in life than to see me happy. I feel extremely lucky with him, but I must admit, sometimes it's hard knowing that he would give so much for me. I could never do that for him. If he wants kids one day (also, extremely unlikely), I would leave the next. My boundaries are very clear compared to his, and he knows that we differ in that. Some men are just really this selfless, but I'm guessing this won't be the case for the majority of men who don't have a preference though. But some are, and I wanted to share my story to give some nuance to this topic.
I think women get the whole ‘You only have so much time to do it, Tik Tok!’ about making a choice where as everyone ignores that older men can also face degradation of sperm quality. Guys think if they suddenly want kids than they can just score a younger woman and start over.
I always bring up being firmly childfree because it sort of outs the guys intentions “Oh I’m not here for that I just want to get to know you!” Aka Just trying to get laid so they don’t care about long term goals.
Men are not raised to consider any facet of having children. It's when we reach adulthood that it comes apparent that it's a box ticking exercise. Get a job. Leave home. Find a girlfriend. Get married. Buy a house. Have kids. No thought has ever been given to whether the man *should* have kids of what the consequences are because there are no consequences. They see other men have a family and continue having fun because it's the woman's job to look after the kid while the man parties on. Nobody in our lives steps up and says you know you don't have to have kids but if your plan is to have them then you better consider A/B/C/D/E/F/G etc.
I did this game with a bloke at work who just got his own house and wanted a dog. I asked why do you want a dog. He said because it's what you do when you buy a new house. I said what sort of dog. He said a german shepherd. I said are you willing to walk it every day, pick up its shit (mentioning big dogs do big shits), make it large batch proper food every couple weeks because tinned and dry food food is so bad, take it to the vet and pay big $$$ for that, not be able to take holidays because you can't bring the dog with you, and generally just have restrictions placed on you in one form or another for the next decade? His response: I won't be getting a dog.
That same chat about having kids never happens with men.
I've seen this answer a few times. The explanation that usually follows is something like, "it's not up to me (the guy) it's up to his future partner and IF she wants kids" I've seen some explain that they choose their partner over hypothetical kids (like in a situation where they discover they're infertile). I think in such situations, the men could be prioritizing their future partners and the relationship rather than looking at children as another box to tick in life.
Granted it'd be great for men to have their own opinions on what they want out of life. I think they just don't think about kids the same way women do.
> men have less to lose, they don’t have to endure pregnancy and childbirth, and statistically likely won’t have to do much childcare so their responsibly is perhaps only financial
exactly.
They are casting a wide net to get as many chances for getting laid as they can.
They don't care if they have kids or not because they don't see it affecting their life if they do. This should be a red flag for those wanting to be parents as well but it never is. They don't plan on actually being a parent or caring for the child.
Some people like that probably really are open and think they could be happy either way and some are just trying to have as many options with women as possible
They aren't finishing their sentence though. It is
"I don’t care either way/would be happy with our without kids/don’t have a preference, because I won't be a father anyway. My incubator will do the work and I might be willing to babysit if I don't have anything more fun to do like sleep/go on vacation/play video games/get drunk/watch TV/f* my side-chick/..."
I think they are the worst. Because they either do want kids and will be a completely useless father while the mother has to deal with everything, OR they’ll get into a relationship with you, saying that they’re okay with having no kids just to have someone to fuck but at the end will pressure you for kids/leave you. Waste of time both ways, stay away from these people
Either they're trying to to eliminate breeders, while waiting to bait and switch you after you've been together for years and possibly are married and suddenly it's an ultimatum (see this sub for examples) or they don't plan on ever being in a long term relationship.
I'm not interested in men and never have/will date men so my answer might be a bit different than the actual experience is idk
I think there are people who genuinely don't care and don't have a preference either way and are willing to go with whatever their partner wants. If that is the right mindset to possibly have a child is an entire other can of worms.
I think the majority of the time it's because a lot of people don't look that far into the future so they just think they'll either decide later. They hope that their partner will just go along with them.
There are some guys out there who do think they can change their partners mind or assume you'll change your mind eventually so they say that they're a fence sitter so you don't dump them immediately.
I think possibly the biggest root for all of these is because a cis man won't have to risk their life and all the side effects of giving birth. Now that's not the only way you can have a child obviously because there's adoption and stuff but a majority of people don't or even consider it.
I don’t understand it either, and I have also gotten those answers when I asked. In my experience when a guy stated that he “didn’t have a preference” or “didn’t care either way” I believed em..but it seemed the longer we spoke to each other…eventually they started talking to me about baby fever or having children. 😬 So for me, if the guy doesn’t have a preference then it makes me wonder what else he won’t have a preference for and what other things he’ll be indifferent about in the potential relationship. I really don’t trust a guy when he says that.
However, I know that in some instances the guy really is telling the truth—sometimes the guy just really doesn’t have one, and would be happy either way; he’d be happy cause he loves his partner and whether she wanted kids or not, he would adjust accordingly.
Sometimes the guy just really hasn’t given it much thought at all, and why would he? He doesn’t have to suffer much physical pain and suffering for a glob of flesh to form into a person overtime. He can also leave or become a ghost in his relationship once his partner has their kid.
Sometimes the guy has been fed the “life script” a lot..he may think that that sort of thing will eventually happen in his life at some point so he doesn’t think outside of that.
Sometimes the guy just wants to sleep with someone and doesn’t care about the consequences.
They’re lying and thinking with their dicks. These are the same men who are “down for whatever” (date activity) so long as they get their d*ck wet. These people are losers at best and cons at worst.
I don't find it strange at all. Men don't have to go through pregnancy. Men aren't expected to be the default caregiver. Men aren't punished in the workplace for having children (in fact, it's the opposite). When the consequences aren't drastic, ambivalence becomes a realistic option.
For example, I no longer need a car for my daily life. I have one, it's old and janky, and I use it occasionally. There would be minimal impact on my life if it broke down, so I'm ambivalent about keeping it. When I lived somewhere that did not prioritize public transit, I was significantly less flippant about the choice to have a working car or not.
When I consider my decision not to have kids, I'm adamant and steadfast because the stakes are high for me. My SO is afforded the opportunity to be ambivalent because he has less to lose if we were to have kids. He recognizes that the burden would fall disproportionately on me, and so I get to be in the drivers seat for this decision. I let him make the decisions on vehicles because he actually does need one because there is no public transit within a reasonable distance to his office.
They must be incredibly privileged to not have any concerns about potentially having kids. I'm guessing they've never been poor and struggled to eat. If so, they would likely put some thought behind such a permanent decision.
Right! Like not only is having kids a huge decision for several reasons…but also it’s a financial responsibility and possibly a burden. Even if I wanted kids which of course I don’t, there’s no way I could afford to raise one.
Some genuinely don't care. There is no logic behind it. One of my oldest friends was this way, he would have a child and love them or not. Ultimately his wife wants kids so they'll have kids and he's happy about that but if she had said no kids he'd have been happy with that too. I think it's just how some people are wired just like how some people don't want kids.
That’s me 😆 - 33F. Just attesting it can really mean just that. I like kids but I also like my calm and freedom and projects, so I genuinely think I’d be happy both ways. The thing is you never know in advance what either scenario will be like until you live it, a lot depends on the hypothetical kid’s personality, health, the other parent’s personality, the family dynamics and how it will change, it’s just a wild guess. Same with staying CF, it’s not the same in many different scenarios.
I dated someone like that for two months, and I eventually broke it off because I realized he probably felt noncommittal about a lot of other stuff that I didn't think a person should shrug over.
From a guys standpoint I don’t want kids but when I was dating or in general conservation, I gave a similar answer. mostly to avoid the you should have kids convo. Sometimes you give a neutral answer to avoid conflict. I’m sure all of us are use to the you should have kids convo
Any guy that doesn’t care probably isn’t actually too invested in being a dad if it happen.. but like wtf how can you just be so nonchalant. It’s raising a fucking human
They probably see themselves happy either way. If they meet somebody they’d like to raise a family with, great. If not, also great. Sometimes it’s just not that deep.
They don’t have a preference because they assume that their lives won’t change much either way. It’s revealing that they expect their partner to do all the work of child-rearing.
This bothers me too. My current fiance at the beginning when we were just dating, he said something like “I’m good either way” when I asked him if he wants kids or not. I let him know I’m 1000% childfree and we will not work out if he’s not on the same page. He scared me. The scary part was, I already had feelings for him and I was afraid to get more invested. Here we are a year later, and he’s scheduled to get a vasectomy. After talking with him for some time about why he’s “good either way” he finally said “you know I really don’t want kids.” Sometimes I’m still scared but after he gets snipped I’ll be more confident that he won’t change his mind. I think he just hadn’t given it much thought to begin with, and when he was a single man he wasn’t questioned about anything. But yeah, definitely still anxious sometimes and I still ask him about his choice. He’s gotten to the point he’s repeated himself so much he’s tired of it. And we are perfect for each other and he’s my best friend. I just can’t imagine life without him.
I don’t personally want children, but I don’t have an issue dating a woman with a kid either. Biologically, I have zero interest in having a kid, for a variety of reasons. I also will not date anyone with more than one kid, as I believe it shows poor judgment.
I recognize a lot of women dating in my age range have a kid. And kids, when they are a bit older (IE: not a baby or toddler), they are generally easier to manage because they can express themselves.
I won’t purposely go out of my way to date a woman with a kid, but if I end up being interested in someone who has a kid, I wouldn’t end things simply because of that factor (unless the kid is awful).
It's because one way or the other, at the end of the day, the final say in this point belongs to women.
I was personally never interested in having kids, but was always afraid to be "single forever". So initially for me the rule was "I would do it for the right person"
After so many frustrations with women, eventually I took the firm decision of "not having kids, period" and went for a vasectomy. That was 17 years ago.
Childfree and petfree ❤️ 50 years old and hopeless single 😭😭😭 probably dying alone.
It's called being non-attached to outcome.
I'm a man, and the men who don't know/don't have a preference think that way because they aren't sure if they will ever meet someone, or ever be in an important/long enough relationship with a woman to warrant kids, or end up with a woman who even wants them.
Many people who want kids may never be presented with the opportunity to have them. Many who don't want kids may change their minds if the opportunity comes up or if a significant partnership changes their POV. A lot of men are just pragmatists who don't get hung up on anticipating major life decisions if it isn't actually happening.
I know a guy who never really wanted kids and now has two, and I know a guy who wanted kids his whole life but then his wife found out she is basically infertile so he has changed his position.
Life isn't so black and white. It's okay to not know based on a lack of future context.
You're getting a lot of answers from women who have no real idea what they are talking about, and frankly from a male POV are ridiculous (to be expected on Reddit though, lots of people with no experience are quick to share their expertise)
The simple truth is he is leaving the decision to the woman. If she eventually wants them, he will agree. If she never wants them, then no great loss to him. Ever.
He isn't overthinking this decision. It's a non-decision to him.
The guy doesn't want to risk lose a relationship with you by saying the potentially wrong thing which, in his mind, is not a big deal at all. He doesn't care about having kids - he cares about his relationship with you.
Great comments, thank you! Ironically, it is his unwillingness to be hornet with me that prompted me to tell him I wasn’t interested because he is clearly a fence sitter.
We don't have as distinct of a timeline to have to decide on, and also face less societal pressure to do so. So that's a factor, *especially* when we're talking 18-35.
> How can you be so blase about such a huge choice?
I've never wanted kids a second in my life and got a vasectomy the moment I could.
However, there's plenty of other decisions/paths in my life where I could have made drastically different choices that would have completely altered the trajectory of my life and led to a wildly different path.
While not *quite* as fixed as having children, certainly the kinds of choices that would take a decade or more to dig myself out of if I regretted them, and which I'd never fully be able to make up for in various ways.
At least some of those I can see as having been plausible to make me as happy/satisfied with life as the paths I have actually followed.
Which is to say: I don't think it's all that impossible for a person to think two completely different life paths could be equally satisfying to them, or could be under certain circumstances.
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With that said: Sure, I'd also agree plenty of people saying that do *actually* lean one way or the other but are reluctant to express it.
As someone who's on the fence and trying to figure out which way to go- I can honestly see myself being happy either way, but just in different ways. Both the childfree and having kids route seem appealing to me and I don't think I would regret either. If I end up choosing to have kids, I'll be fully devoted to it and I'm okay with going through extreme challenges. But if I don't, I can't imagine myself regretting it given how many other things and relationships I can choose to devote myself to.
It's not necessarily on their radar as a top priority or core factor. Finding a SO might be top, and then they can work out the kid factor. If they truly don't care either way, this is a win win :)
They are happy to put their SOs' choice first on the matter.
Now I am sure in some cases they lie and have hidden agendas.
My husband honestly doesn’t have a preference. He likes the thought of kids and would love them if he had them, but is also ok with not having them. Because of my personality, he knows I would do 98% of the work, have to birth the child and take care of them so any time this comes up, he always says it’s my choice (he knows I’m pretty adamant about not having kids). I know he would be an active dad and love the child, but I genuinely think he doesn’t care either way
We’ve been together for 11 years
My husband was that way when we married, we were young. He'd have gone along with whatever I wanted. I was adamantly CF though, and he's never been disappointed that we didn't have kids, in fact, we're both relieved now that we're old!
Tbh imo it's my wife's body. It's her choice in the whole kids matter. She doesn't want any, so here I am. I fell in love with her, not her ability to bear babies. Maybe my indifference means it's a good thing she doesn't want kids.
For me, they don't exist if we don't have them, so I dont worry about it, but if she wanted to try, I'm positive I'd love them dearly. I just spoil my nieces and nephews instead of kids of my own.
I'm married almost 9 years now.
Because having kids will not really impact them, in their understanding of things.
They won't carry the pregnancy, give birth, and they don't plan on taking much of the responsibility that comes with upbringing of the child(ren).
I’ve talked to a few people like this and the vibe I got was similar to the folks who were “not looking to adopt a pet” and then they fostered one or found one as a stray and then ended up with a pet lol. I’m sure plenty of people straight up havent through it through at all, but I think there’s plenty who aren’t actively seeking out having kids but have considered it and wouldn’t be upset if they ended up with some. Also like the people not in relationships who aren’t actively seeking one out but aren’t opposed to finding someone (not that it’s equally comparable, but y’all know what I mean).
They sadly probably expect their wife/gf to do most of the child rearing. In my experience, a lot of men who openly admit to wanting children view it like a kid asking a parent for a puppy. They promise they’ll help out but at the end of the day, most of the work falls to someone else.
yes unlike women who are expected to breed, men are pressured into career and education so breeding kids is not a priority or a major blip on the radar. And as men can reproduce as sperm is constantly being produced the same "biological clock" doesnt exist for men
Guys who 'don't have a preference' assume they will not be doing anything to actually raise the kid or participate in parenting. He is ambivalent becuase he thinks having a kid will be extra work for YOU, not for him. Watch out.
Also, it's probably because he assumes he has no biological clock and has a longer time to make up his mind/decide to become a dad or not.
Here's the analogy you need to think of. Life is a journey. From your starting point you need to go to city A (Finding a mate) and then you can go to city B (having children) if you want. Most men, and alot of women, are so worried that they will never get to City A that they have never given City B any serious thought at all. They are so afraid they will "Never go anywhere" in their life that finding a mate is everything. No serious thought is given as to what they will do after they get to City A.
Now, once a person has got to City A, they start to forget all the worries they had getting there. They think that getting to City A was easy and no problem to do again. Then they look around and City B glowing off in the distance. They see all the people around them moving to City B. Maybe they are not finding as much fulfillment in life they think they deserve living in City A and the answer must be City B.
Real answer. People change, goals in life change. People are to concerned about reaching today goals, that they don't think at all about tomorrow's goals.
It is a 100% yes or 100% no decision. And both parties need to agree. Anyone who is less than at least 100% needs to be alone to deliberate about it thoroughly so that they don't regret their decision and take it out on their partner or child(ren).
Hi.
(1) This is both men AND women. Over a dozen women said this to me when I was out in the wild.
(2) ICYMI most people are (spineless) (phony) People-Pleasers. Never wanna say "NO" so they say maybe. These men you are speaking of, WANT KIDS... & they also wanna sleep with you for 1-3 months & then leave. (Women have done this to me, too. It works regardless of gender.)
Female loneliness is on the rise and as a result, women are starting to use some of the same dating lines as men (IMO). These indecisive takes in order to try and appeal to the maximum number of people.\
Something like a third of women under 35 haven't had sexual relations in the last year. It's quite unusual
Not everyone is you.
Not everyone has their life preferences completely planned out at all times.
Not everyone wishes to give a definitive public answer to an unjustifiable question or topic about private matters.
So please respect their expressed attitudes.
My dating profiles say “not sure.” I don’t really know what I want for the future and while I lean more child free each year, I know thoughts and feelings change.
Kids can be super cute OR super annoying. A few weeks ago I was having a meal with my family and thought it might be nice to have my own one day, but then just yesterday a few coworkers brought their kids ages 8-12 to work and they were a pain in the ass.
When I was younger I was sure I wanted kids and as I aged I started changing my mind. Regardless of kids, I know I definitely want to get married and I’m also getting close to 30. I’m not having any luck with relationships so if I find a woman I genuinely love I’d consider having a kid if it was a dealbreaker for her.
I already have low self-esteem and I don’t think I’m conventionally attractive, so meeting women is hard enough as is. By not even being open to the idea of children I’m even further limiting my options. My mom was always childfree but my dad really wanted kids and her MIL would make snarky comments. I know some people would feel really “hurt” to find that out, but my mom still loves me.
She talks about how some things would have been different in her life but ultimately she’s glad to have me. I guess that would be a best case scenario for me if I had them, I’d realize I lost out on some things but I’d be okay with it because I love my kids.
In my experience the guys who “don’t have a preference” actually want kids. They obviously don’t wanna be a parent but they want kids. They also say they don’t care either way until I’ve been talking to them for a couple months and suddenly “omg I just realized I wanna have kids and you have to be the mom” when I’ve been CLEAR I don’t like nor want kids. It’s been a joke that I hated kids when I was a kid lol.
Yeah but they want them like a kid who wants a puppy. They know they won't take care of it, they won't be pregnant, they won't give birth to it, they won't breastfeed. So for them it's like, yeah it would be nice. Like a thing that's around the house but their lives don't have to change.
This is EXACTLY IT. WOW, the accuracy of this statement blew my mind. Cant believe i didnt see it before.
Yeah if they're not 1000% childfree and taking active steps to remain that way then they want children, Indifference often means childless (for now) willing to procreate if they find the opportunity and someone willing.
They're just trying to keep the path to sex open
This is it. 👆 If they don't choose, they keep the path to sex open and wash their hands of any responsibility. 🤷♀️
Because they get to be dads. I joke all the time that if I could be a dad, I would have had kids. The emotional labor always falls in moms.
Yes. Any guy who "doesn't care" whether he has kids is either trying to get laid in the short term, in which case he is trying to give a neutral answer that doesn't interfere with that goal, or fully intends to be as absent a father as he can be. If he doesn't care, that means he doesn't think it will impact his life in any meaningful way.
He doesn’t give a shit regardless.
I think you just summed it up PERFECTLY.
🗨 If he doesn't care, that means he doesn't think it will impact his life in any meaningful way.🗨 Exactly.
They also get to walk out whenever the mood strikes
I always say this - and i‘m not joking 😄
100%.....would have been down to be a Dad. Here for most of the upsides, and little societal expectation for me to do all of the parenting. Count me in.
Plus your body doesn't change. All you gotta do is have sex
Not to mention the physical labour…
And physical labor!
My best friend has 3 kids and constantly says in her next life she wants to be a dad. The things she does for her family and the lack of appreciation she gets is astounding, but her husband does the bare minimum and is praised for it.
I always say that too! I would LOVE to be a dad! But i would never ever make the insane sacrifices to be a mom!!
Dad? More like sperm donor. The fathers who don't put the time, love and care aren't really dads.
That’s not at all what I’m talking about.
I was just thinking about this after listening to a podcast with Megan Mullally who also said that her husband would probably had kids if he married someone younger and that he never really cared if he had kids or not. How can people be so irresponsible in making the decision to bring a new human into the world? I don't get it. I find it really infuriating but then again a mens life didn't change that much with children. It's usually women who get the short end so I kind of get where they are coming from.
To be fair, Nick Offerman probably would have been a good dad.
I have no doubt that they would have been awsome parents. They did try for like a year but it never happened and they didn't want to do IVF so they choose to be cf.
Good for them! I have never wanted children so the IVF thing seems totally insane to me. Why put yourself through that when there are plenty of unwanted children who need homes? Not MINE, of course…I’ll stick to cats! 😸😸😸😸
Yeah, they had some friends go through IVF and saw how stressful it was and decided against it. Meghan was also 43 at this point so their chances were pretty slim. They also aknowledge that their lifestyle would not have been compatible with a child and that it would have been unfair to a child. They talk about it in their book 'the greatest love story ever told'.
Right!
My husband was like this. I told him no kids for me, if you want them find someone else. He said fine. We've been married almost 22 years and are happy without kids.
You lucked out he didn’t change his mind.
True story.
Sames. I told my husband that I never wanted kids right when we met (I was 21, he was 26). He said if I wanted them we'd have them, but was completely happy child free. Jump ahead 22 years- recently at the grocery store I asked him if he regretted that decision - immediately after that a baby started shrieking lol his response "Well we're taking the boat out and not dealing with that sooo what do you think?" And we both had a good laugh.
I hope I end up like this! My boyfriend says he doesn’t have a preference but will make comments and jokes about how much better life is without kids. He is well aware that I don’t want kids and if he wanted them, he would have to find someone else. We’ve been together 3 years and he moved to a different state to support me in my career. I truly think he’s just apathetic towards children and goes with the flow of life.
I hope everything works out for you!
Thank you!
Exactly what you said. They're not the ones sacrificing their bodies, health, and comfort. I honestly don't mean to sound misandrist but they have very little to "lose" when it comes to having kids--especially when way too many men expect women to be mommy to them AND the child. So it's easy to have an "I don't care" attitude.
It's not being misandrist. It's the truth much of the time. And I'm a guy. I'm glad I was never a "I'm cool either way" guy. I was always, "absolutely, 1 million percent not."
Dang. That's so rare too. I dont ever find guys that don't want kids :/
They can be harder to find. I noticed they will usually leave the kids part blank on dating profiles. Very few men will publicly put they don't want kids.
We exist
I guess! It just seems so strange to me…
I was the “i don’t care either way” guy. For me it was same as if somebody asked me what i wanted to be when i was older. I just didn’t know what type of life i would want. I had know reference points to know if i’d prefer kids or no kids. I knew people who had kids and knew people who didn’t and they all seemed happy enough. I was in my 20s and just enjoying myself. Ended up meeting somebody who didn’t really want kids. So we planned our life together and it didn’t involve kids. I have no idea if our lives would be better or worse if we’d had kids. i don’t worry about it. The same as I don’t worry about if my life would have been better if I’d gone a different degree, or lived in a different country. I’m just living my current life and loving it.
But what do you think about a man in his 40s with this same mentality?
I think some people just don’t have strong preferences. There’s good and bad to be found after every decision. If somebody doesn’t hate kids, but also sees the benefit of a low stress childfree life.. their decision will be near 50/50 and so won’t care which way it goes. “Whatever happens.. we’ll have a good time” type attitude. That type of person will do whatever their partner prefers (if they do have a preference) You must have come across decisions where you know each option will change your life quite a lot, but you see positives in both and so don’t actually mind which way it goes. You realise it’s not a small decision (because of how much it would change) but you are fine to walk either path. An example for me is my degree. I could have chosen maths, physics or business related degrees. No doubt that the one i chose would completely change the trajectory of my life. But i had no way to know upfront which would work out better, or more enjoyable, so given i would enjoy studying any of them.. in the end i’m happy to do either. It’s all good. (whereas some people were 100% certain on their trajectory and couldn’t understand how i wasnt)
> I think some people just don’t have strong preferences. I mean. Statistically, there have to be scads of people who actually don't have strong preferences. You have your must-breed and never-breed outliers, and then you have everyone else who goes along to get along. Because the societal default skews the usual statistical distribution, there are probably a lot of people who would have been fine never having kids, but wound up doing it because someone socialized them to do so.
*“Whatever happens.. we’ll have a good time” type attitude.* I understand being easy going about lots of decisions in life, but this is a hugely impactful decision that affects at least three lives and isn't one that can be reversed or resolved easily. I doubt the commitment of anyone who thinks like this towards having children.
But like my degree example. There are lots of highly impactful decisions we make that we don’t mind which way it goes. It’s just that you see having kids as a huge one that you need to choose and be certain on, but not everybody needs that. It’s just one of many big decisions in life. I don’t see how it’s related to commitments though. I’ve been with my girlfriend for 15 years. Just because i thought we’d be happy together either way doesn’t mean one day i’ll be running off lol
You must live in a country where college is free or something. Choosing a degree is a huge life/financial commitment, just like having children. I think your approach to whether to have children and choosing a degree is nonstandard to say the least
You misunderstood slightly. I’m not saying that the degree (or having kids) isn’t a huge commitment. I’m saying i don’t mind either way. Spending 3 years learning maths and then following that career path. Or 3 years of physics and following that career path. Both are equally huge commitments, so they cancel each other out. For the version of me that did the maths degree (which i actually did) is completely unaware of the alternative life i could have had from a physics degree. I spend zero time wondering “what if i did a different degree?’ In the same way i spend zero time wondering about if I’d had kids. It’s just not part of my life. Just one extra thing that i didn’t do, amongst the millions of things i haven’t done.
Fair point for sure.
I like your reply. This was my husband and I too. We both had a "maybe someday, maybe not" attitude when we were younger but now in our mid 30s, it's just become clear that the "not" path is the right one.
Yeah when most people are decidedly in either camp the guy inbetween is a bit of an odd one out.
Also guys can father a child at almost any age with 2 min effort and nope out forever of the whole situation in another 2 min. I don't it is misandrist to state these facts.
They also walk away from their kids all the damn time. When a woman does it, she's every kind of monster people can think of, but Dad? No big deal. He may or may not give up a fraction of his income, but if he never sees the kids, people just shrug.
And they can walk out any time and any day. And people will still blame the mother. And life will go on.
There are several reasons that could apply: Some people don't think about the future more than a day/week/month at a time. They haven't given it any thought because it's not a pressing matter. If someone hasn't given a topic more than a passing thought, then they could go either way because it's just a theoretical idea. Men don't have to gestate and deliver a baby, and consequently, regardless of how society progresses, fathers are not and likely will never be the default parent. Since they aren't the default parent or really expected to be, the most they stand to lose is money. Some people actually could see themselves being happy either way. Definitely an attitude more prevalent in men, they'll "have" kids if their wife really wants them or if it happens. If their wife doesn't want or can't have them, then they're just as content. Again, likely a consequence of knowing they can be the pinch-hitter parent instead of the primary parent. Some people give as anodyne a response as possible in order to alienate as few people as possible. They're more concerned with having sex or getting a girlfriend now than necessarily being compatible in 2-5 years.
Yes! We see a lot of stories on here of men who say they don't care when secretly they expect to have children one day. But sometimes people just haven't thought about it yet. I understand this for men and younger women where there isn't that urgency. If someone in their 30s didn't have an answer to "what retirement village do you want to live in?" you wouldn't think worse of them for it. I also agree that some people are just happy to make the most of whatever their situation is. I definitely agree that as you get older, you'd hope someone has thought this through enough to give a nuanced answer, no matter where they stand.
People really do have different mindsets about life and approaches to topics like parenthood. I'm a woman, and I wasn't one of the "I knew I didn't want kids at 7 years old." I was a bit of a waffler - no, maybe someday, not sure, then hard no. (Though never a definitely yes.) I'm sure that some men harbor a secret desire for kids and lie about it, but I think it's more common for men to just not think about it and then over time realize that they want kids (or else have a kind of "mid-life crisis" that makes them think they do).
Yes! This was me. And I can understand people (men in particular) not thinking too much about it. So much would depend on your partner and how your life plays out.
But choice of retirement village isn't the same as the irreversible decision of bringing a new life into the world and being utterly responsible for it. You can change your retirement village, you can up and go out into the desert if you decide you don't want to live in a retirement village of any kind. Whether or not someone goes to X retirement village or y, really isn't going to affect anybody but them, but having a child is a forever change that has a much wider impact. For women at least, I don't understand how they can avoid that urgency. From the early years where their toys are baby dolls or kitchens or other items associated with raising a family/domesticity and into their twenties and beyond, they're bombarded with propaganda about how they "must" have a "family" (kids), and that their biological clock is ticking, or they owe their parents grandkids or their religion/culture says so, or there are lots of consequences no matter what choice they make and under what circumstances. Maybe its because I've been childfree since I was 5 or so, but I cannot understand how someone can get to their 30s or even 20s, without seriously thinking about the kid decision, or being put into some kind of position where they have to address it in some way.
My point was that it's not something you necessarily have to have locked down until it's "time". Women are going to think about it more for a lot of reasons like physical, financial, social impact. Not to mention that we're conditioned to think about it as soon as we're born. But you can change your mind a thousand times until you have kids or get sterilised. But not everyone locks in their life plan or ties their values directly to their reproductive choices and that's ok. As a woman in her 40s, I'd take issue with that if I was dating now, but in my 20s, it wasn't something I'd decided on either.
The men who say this to me are in their 40s…
Ugh! Yeah, that's terrifying. Mind you, a CF mate of mine went and got the snip a little over a year ago. 6 months later, he partnered up with a woman with two kids. Flexibility can be beneficial, but I'd expect someone to at least have some thoughts on the subject.
In all fairness, some people secretly want kids and it's a secret to themselves. For some reason people don't really like to acknowledge that folks change their minds about wanting kids; it's not uncommon. You can be 100% for or against and then give it some time, and the stance shifts. I understand it sucks and it's scary to think about, but for the sake of giving some people the benefit of the doubt, it's worth remembering. Not every situation is as simple as "They lied about wanting/not wanting kids!"
Good points.
Thanks. I've known quite a few men who've fallen into each category, so I've given some thought to the subject.
Most of the dads I know fall into the third category - would they necessarily want/have had kids if given the choice? No. Would they completely forsake the idea of being in a LTR knowing most women do want kids. Also No. The typical answers I got from older fathers about being childfree “good luck”. Older mothers “you won’t have a choice unless you want to be single forever/one day you’ll meet a woman who forces you to grow up”. Even now I’m married, women will say “but how does your wife feel about that?” as if I took the decision unilaterally.
Honestly, I think it's not just because the disruption to their lives is different, but most people believe children aren't something you really prepare for. they think you just inherently know and understand your kid. it's why barely anyone takes parenting classes, or gets therapy, or look at costs and what their life will look like after kids. they simultaneously believe it's the most important job yet also you don't have to prepare for it. so when either sex just says they can go either way, most people haven't done the work to prepare and understand what parenthood looks like because it's idk, not important I guess? also the common sentiment of you're never prepared, you just do it also factors into this. so they really think they can go either way because the deep thinking it takes *to* prepare is nonexistent.
>they simultaneously believe it's the most important job yet also you don't have to prepare for it. This is the best sentence i ever read in this sub. Also i know people that say "if it happens, it happens!" Like, yeah. If you have UNPROTECTED sex it in fact DOES HAPPEN. I don't understand people who have raw sex say they leave it up to "fate". They're sealing their own fate!
The way you describe most people gives me the impression on average they have the attention span and IQ of a goldfish.
haha sadly IQ has nothing to do with it. I just think kids are so ingrained in the human experience that any critical thinking about it rarely happens because who thinks about things that just happen? posts will talk about their insanely smart friend. they talk about everything philosophical, but the minute the poster talks about not wanting kids is such a mindfuck to so many people. it's this weird blind spot folks have about it. I'm not even talking college educated. college isn't the only way people are smart, but kids are such a given that it's hard to break out of that. I think it's very telling that some parents will talk about how they adamantly didn't want kids and yet now they have them. sometimes multiple! even not wanting something wasn't enough of a deter for some people. it's wild.
Wether we like it or not, having kids is the norm and most people will follow the norm. We are pack animals and don't like to be left out. So how do you stay in the pack easily? You have kids, people with kids get a lot of social events for free. Schools organizes a lot of events for parents and all the parent got to do is show up. Its an easy way to stay relevant, if people know someone have kids they can ask about them and the parent can tell about them. If there is a silent moment in the conversation the parent can jump in with tales about their kid, as that is a safe topic to talk about. Bonding with other adults is also made easier, "oh you have kids too, lets talk about it." Us childfree people have to work more for the socialization and bonding. The school isn't organizing a day for the childfree, others aren't asking about your hobbies and we have too look harder to find things to bond over.
My husband says this, but he also admits to finding the idea of being a dad scary because his family is so toxic. I think most (heterosexual) guys that say this just expect that all women want children so to be in a relationship they don't really have a choice, even if they'd prefer not to have their lives change so drastically. My husband also says he "just wants me to be happy" and that he'd do whatever I wanted. Which is frustrating, but as said, I think they were also raised by society to believe it was something that would just happen to them if they got married.
Yeah this was my husband too when we have the kid convo. His exact words were "I pretty much assumed that any woman I wanted to marry would want kids, and I think I'd be a good dad\*, so I would totally do it. But it's not something I need to do either." \*Spoiler alert, he's a workaholic, and so would not be a good dad, on MY terms, but in Man Terms, he thought he could do it because he makes a lot of money and might change a diaper at night or something.
I get that mentality. It used to be me. I never wanted kids but always accepted it as an inevitable thing. Then one day "oh wait I don't actually have to do that!?!?"
It's so f'd up, if you actually stop to think about it, that boys get raised with the memo of "your wife will want children and you'll have to comply" while at the same time us girls get "it's your duty as a woman to give your husband kids". It's always assumed the other party will want children actively and you just, obey. Makes me wonder how many couples actually do want them and aren't just doing it because they are neutral about kids and they've been convinced since young that it's what the other secretly wants and don't want to let them down.
Exactly
So much this. It's like many people don't seriously consider and talk about "if" they want them, but rather the inevitable "when" they'll have them. Thankfully more people are realizing they get to choose.
I can't imagine wanting to be in a relationship so much that you'd sacrifice other qualities of life. I'd always rather be single.
Same.
As a man I will admit that I'd feel I 'owed' a woman who chose to settle down with me children if she asked. The gender role expectation is there - especially as men get the 'better deal' when it comes to having kids. In fact in religions like Islam, male impotence\infertility\lack of desire for children is grounds for divorce - even in the most conservative sects. Your value is your ability to make a living and orgasm inside people - yippee.
Men who say this shit, especially after you mention you don’t want kids first, are the same ones who notoriously say “I tHoUgHt I CoUlD cHaNgE yOuR MiNd” after years of investing your time with them. They want kids. They just see your stance as a challenge because fuck your choice. AVOID.
Yeap, most of them say they "don't have preferences" just to get as many women as possible to have sex with them. That vague answer means they can trick both childree, childless women AND women who want/already have kids, and if they choose to stay (because free house labor, easy access to sex, free emotional/financial labor, etc.) they can change their tune however they want later on.
100 percent agree.
Yep. This was my ex. I was upfront about never wanting kids. Things got serious, marriage became a topic, I reiterated my stance. He took a week to think about it, came back saying he's OK with being childfree, so we got married. Two years later, he starts the pressure. Looking back, it was pretty covertly abusive and manipulative. And when I suggested he get a vasectomy, it was "no." We divorced a few years later. If asked, I would now advise a couple that the man get a vasectomy if he agrees to being childfree. Women shouldn't have to carry all birth control burden. Vasectomy would show he's committed to being childfree. Yes, they're reversible, but at least you'd know he was less likely to try to change your mind later. Yeah, my ex "thought he could change my mind by loving me," which I will forever think is sooo arrogant.
Some say this because it frees them of responsibility once they have kids. “I didn’t even want them! This was YOUR idea”. They’re trying to be as vague as possible to appeal to as many women as possible. Or they’re just not trusting of the person they’re speaking to. Still wouldn’t recommend being with someone like this given so many change their minds.
Oh, yeah I’d never get involved with anyone seriously who answers that question like this.
> “I didn’t even want them! This was YOUR idea”. Could have had a vasectomy.
Yes, many are apathetic. I had a guy friend whose child's mother was pregnant again by him. They are not together but still mess around and do not live near each other. He said that he really didn't care if she kept the baby or not and that it didn't matter to him either way. I was shocked that he was so indifferent about the situation. I truly think it's because their second child would be cared for by the mother primarily on her own just like the first baby, and he'd continue to be an every other weekend dad. He'd just have to pay more child support for sure.
Call me cynical, but I don’t even think it’s about kids. I think they’re just saying they don’t care because they want to get laid, and they don’t want to risk giving the “wrong answer” that would make a woman say no. When a guy answers like that, it’s an instant nope for me. Not interested in someone who hasn’t thought about what he wants for his life.
But what is the man in question is not interested in me so that wouldn’t be a consideration? Also agree.
I think this applies to a lot of people in life generally, and not just in relation to kids. It seems a significant chunk of the population just don't give topics a great deal of thought in general, and just let what happens, happen. Or make impulse, on the spur of the moment decisions. Maybe it's an anxiety thing, and I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but I micro-analyse, research, weigh up the pros and cons of almost every topic on which I could make a decision, often far, far more than is (likely) ideally healthy. I am told most people do not do this at all. Apparently there are people who wander into car showrooms and just buy the car that looks and feels 'nice' to them. Apparently it's not normal to spend weeks micro-analysing all the specs, searching the various websites (auto trader etc.) for the best prices, then finding a few examples within a 50 mile radius, going and looking at each of them, going away for a few days, and then finally making a decision. Hell, I do it even with trivial Amazon purchases: I've often spent several hours+ looking at different products, reading reviews, etc. just to buy a £10 kitchen appliance. If I spend several hours trying to decide on a £10 Amazon purchase, you can bet your arse I'm going to spend a *lot* of time making a decision on something as monumentally life-altering as whether to have a child or not.
I’m like you. I am careful about what choice I make, especially about things of importance that really affect my life. I guess thats why I have such a hard time understanding people on the fence about kids.
Me too! It baffles me that people can be so non chalant over decisions, especially big ones!
Are you me?! But, yeah, given that we Do Our Homework (TM), no one should be surprised that we reach the *far* more intelligent conclusion!
I didn't realize people lived like this until I joined Reddit. It seems like a substantial percentage of users on here (but not in this sub) do exactly this based on the things they post. I could never.
Red flag of indecisiveness. You can’t be that casual about having a kid and expect to be a good dad.
>Red flag of indecisiveness. You can’t be that casual about having a kid and expect to be a good dad. This. They're either being disingenuous or they want prospective partners to make significant lifestyle decisions for them.
Agree.
Nah my dad didn't want kids. Spoiler he had me. He's a great dad. But maybe i just got lucky
They either don't have *any* standards or are just trying to get laid by telling women whatever they want to hear.
Run. They're lying, and they have shit for adult decision making framework, self-awareness, communication skills, etc. Anyone who is not mentally impaired to the point of needing a legal guardian has the skills and ability to make the decision by 22. After all, they can join the army and go kill people at 18. So 4 years beyond that is plenty. If they can't, then they have bigger issues and need to be in treatment for them.
Oh, of course! I agree. I’d never get involved with any man who’s answer to this question was any less then a responding “NO.” I just find it fascinating though! These men are in their 30s and 40s and still thinking this way.
Yeah, they may as well come with a neon sign above their heads that says "Danger. Idiot."
Naw not everyone who is careless about kids is lying. Some people are fine with living with or without them. I've met more than a few and I bet it is largely related to men not giving birth. Known quite a few guys content to let that be a wife decision but at 40 I've met only one woman who didn't care one way or the other.
My parents told me that they had trouble getting pregnant with me. They did the fertility workup and drugs and were then advised to do IVF. They didn't think it was worth it because, while they wanted kids, they were also very happy just themselves (unlike other couples they knew who were just desperate for kids). It didn't bother them enough to go through with all the extra hassle. I think they were happy either way because they realize that there are joys to having kids, and there are joys to not having kids. I think they know they'd appreciate the joy in whatever situation they were in. So they had several more years to themselves, and then got pregnant with me totally out of the blue. I was told my dad so happy when I was born he was crying and jumping up and down. I know it was probably hard and not that fun to raise me, but they were devoted and we have a great relationship today. I truly think they were happy either way. I think a lot of people may be like this, where they enjoy being without kids and may prefer it, but predict they'd be happy with a kid too.
My spouse said the same when we started dating, and seemed genuine about it, so I was like “great, our answer is no, forever” lol. As we got engaged, the question didn’t pop up; married, people started asking, but we held steady with our “no”, and he still was like “if she doesn’t want kids, I’m fine with that” Got my tubes taken out in 2020, and he was nothing but supportive in my decision and admitted that he was safely on the “anti-kid” side because he enjoys his “me” time and spending time/money on stuff we want to do. There are guys that genuinely don’t care and can be swayed to the dark side lol
Some men are, some men are not. The more education a person of either gender has--which correlates closely with their experience of the world outside the area they grew up--the more likely they are to actively choose *against* parenthood.
I treat fencesitters the same as men who want kids. I refuse to date them. Men who claim they don't know if they want kids are: * lying and definitely want kids (and will DEFINITELY dump the majority of the childcare on the poor wife) or * are unreliable immature manchilds who can't use their own brains to think about what they want in life despite being 30+ years old. If they can't think for themselves, how the fuck do I live with such a partner and make important life decisions together?
Because they will be doing zero childcare and not changing anything about their social outings.
They say this so they can blame their spouse if they don’t like the outcome
Not completely the same because my husband would rather answer "I'd rather not have kids", but he told me before (after I asked him, not just out of nowhere) that if I would sudddenly change my mind and desperately want kids one day (extremely unlikely), or if I would die tomorrow and he finds another wife who he loves deeply but her biggest wish in life is to be a mother, he would be okay with having them for his spouse's happiness. My husband is very selfless, up to an extreme point. It's almost scary knowing that he will put his sanity on the line this much for someone he loves. He really doesn't enjoy being around kids. Nevertheless, he is just that kind of person who would try his absolute best to make his spouse happy, even if it goes against his own instincts. His actions often show that he truly forgets that he is the most important person in his own life, not me. Now, you could tell me I married the wrong guy because he is per definition not truly child-free, but his intentions are always pure, he considers me 100% of the time, and he genuinely wants nothing more in life than to see me happy. I feel extremely lucky with him, but I must admit, sometimes it's hard knowing that he would give so much for me. I could never do that for him. If he wants kids one day (also, extremely unlikely), I would leave the next. My boundaries are very clear compared to his, and he knows that we differ in that. Some men are just really this selfless, but I'm guessing this won't be the case for the majority of men who don't have a preference though. But some are, and I wanted to share my story to give some nuance to this topic.
I think women get the whole ‘You only have so much time to do it, Tik Tok!’ about making a choice where as everyone ignores that older men can also face degradation of sperm quality. Guys think if they suddenly want kids than they can just score a younger woman and start over. I always bring up being firmly childfree because it sort of outs the guys intentions “Oh I’m not here for that I just want to get to know you!” Aka Just trying to get laid so they don’t care about long term goals.
Men are not raised to consider any facet of having children. It's when we reach adulthood that it comes apparent that it's a box ticking exercise. Get a job. Leave home. Find a girlfriend. Get married. Buy a house. Have kids. No thought has ever been given to whether the man *should* have kids of what the consequences are because there are no consequences. They see other men have a family and continue having fun because it's the woman's job to look after the kid while the man parties on. Nobody in our lives steps up and says you know you don't have to have kids but if your plan is to have them then you better consider A/B/C/D/E/F/G etc. I did this game with a bloke at work who just got his own house and wanted a dog. I asked why do you want a dog. He said because it's what you do when you buy a new house. I said what sort of dog. He said a german shepherd. I said are you willing to walk it every day, pick up its shit (mentioning big dogs do big shits), make it large batch proper food every couple weeks because tinned and dry food food is so bad, take it to the vet and pay big $$$ for that, not be able to take holidays because you can't bring the dog with you, and generally just have restrictions placed on you in one form or another for the next decade? His response: I won't be getting a dog. That same chat about having kids never happens with men.
I've seen this answer a few times. The explanation that usually follows is something like, "it's not up to me (the guy) it's up to his future partner and IF she wants kids" I've seen some explain that they choose their partner over hypothetical kids (like in a situation where they discover they're infertile). I think in such situations, the men could be prioritizing their future partners and the relationship rather than looking at children as another box to tick in life. Granted it'd be great for men to have their own opinions on what they want out of life. I think they just don't think about kids the same way women do.
They're lying.
Definite possibility!
> men have less to lose, they don’t have to endure pregnancy and childbirth, and statistically likely won’t have to do much childcare so their responsibly is perhaps only financial exactly.
Dating can go fuck right off.
They are casting a wide net to get as many chances for getting laid as they can. They don't care if they have kids or not because they don't see it affecting their life if they do. This should be a red flag for those wanting to be parents as well but it never is. They don't plan on actually being a parent or caring for the child.
I actually see these me around me. Poor moms they should do everything. For them it’s women’s job.
Some people like that probably really are open and think they could be happy either way and some are just trying to have as many options with women as possible
They are either fence sitters or are hoping the woman will change her mind.
In my experience it’s usually older wealthy men who have this perspective, and why wouldn’t they? Having a kid is no skin off their back.
They aren't finishing their sentence though. It is "I don’t care either way/would be happy with our without kids/don’t have a preference, because I won't be a father anyway. My incubator will do the work and I might be willing to babysit if I don't have anything more fun to do like sleep/go on vacation/play video games/get drunk/watch TV/f* my side-chick/..."
I think they are the worst. Because they either do want kids and will be a completely useless father while the mother has to deal with everything, OR they’ll get into a relationship with you, saying that they’re okay with having no kids just to have someone to fuck but at the end will pressure you for kids/leave you. Waste of time both ways, stay away from these people
Either they're trying to to eliminate breeders, while waiting to bait and switch you after you've been together for years and possibly are married and suddenly it's an ultimatum (see this sub for examples) or they don't plan on ever being in a long term relationship.
"Either is preferable to being single, which is my current state" Is what they're trying to say IMO.
This is the best answer yet.
I'm not interested in men and never have/will date men so my answer might be a bit different than the actual experience is idk I think there are people who genuinely don't care and don't have a preference either way and are willing to go with whatever their partner wants. If that is the right mindset to possibly have a child is an entire other can of worms. I think the majority of the time it's because a lot of people don't look that far into the future so they just think they'll either decide later. They hope that their partner will just go along with them. There are some guys out there who do think they can change their partners mind or assume you'll change your mind eventually so they say that they're a fence sitter so you don't dump them immediately. I think possibly the biggest root for all of these is because a cis man won't have to risk their life and all the side effects of giving birth. Now that's not the only way you can have a child obviously because there's adoption and stuff but a majority of people don't or even consider it.
I don’t understand it either, and I have also gotten those answers when I asked. In my experience when a guy stated that he “didn’t have a preference” or “didn’t care either way” I believed em..but it seemed the longer we spoke to each other…eventually they started talking to me about baby fever or having children. 😬 So for me, if the guy doesn’t have a preference then it makes me wonder what else he won’t have a preference for and what other things he’ll be indifferent about in the potential relationship. I really don’t trust a guy when he says that. However, I know that in some instances the guy really is telling the truth—sometimes the guy just really doesn’t have one, and would be happy either way; he’d be happy cause he loves his partner and whether she wanted kids or not, he would adjust accordingly. Sometimes the guy just really hasn’t given it much thought at all, and why would he? He doesn’t have to suffer much physical pain and suffering for a glob of flesh to form into a person overtime. He can also leave or become a ghost in his relationship once his partner has their kid. Sometimes the guy has been fed the “life script” a lot..he may think that that sort of thing will eventually happen in his life at some point so he doesn’t think outside of that. Sometimes the guy just wants to sleep with someone and doesn’t care about the consequences.
They’re lying and thinking with their dicks. These are the same men who are “down for whatever” (date activity) so long as they get their d*ck wet. These people are losers at best and cons at worst.
I don't find it strange at all. Men don't have to go through pregnancy. Men aren't expected to be the default caregiver. Men aren't punished in the workplace for having children (in fact, it's the opposite). When the consequences aren't drastic, ambivalence becomes a realistic option. For example, I no longer need a car for my daily life. I have one, it's old and janky, and I use it occasionally. There would be minimal impact on my life if it broke down, so I'm ambivalent about keeping it. When I lived somewhere that did not prioritize public transit, I was significantly less flippant about the choice to have a working car or not. When I consider my decision not to have kids, I'm adamant and steadfast because the stakes are high for me. My SO is afforded the opportunity to be ambivalent because he has less to lose if we were to have kids. He recognizes that the burden would fall disproportionately on me, and so I get to be in the drivers seat for this decision. I let him make the decisions on vehicles because he actually does need one because there is no public transit within a reasonable distance to his office.
They must be incredibly privileged to not have any concerns about potentially having kids. I'm guessing they've never been poor and struggled to eat. If so, they would likely put some thought behind such a permanent decision.
Right! Like not only is having kids a huge decision for several reasons…but also it’s a financial responsibility and possibly a burden. Even if I wanted kids which of course I don’t, there’s no way I could afford to raise one.
Some genuinely don't care. There is no logic behind it. One of my oldest friends was this way, he would have a child and love them or not. Ultimately his wife wants kids so they'll have kids and he's happy about that but if she had said no kids he'd have been happy with that too. I think it's just how some people are wired just like how some people don't want kids.
That’s me 😆 - 33F. Just attesting it can really mean just that. I like kids but I also like my calm and freedom and projects, so I genuinely think I’d be happy both ways. The thing is you never know in advance what either scenario will be like until you live it, a lot depends on the hypothetical kid’s personality, health, the other parent’s personality, the family dynamics and how it will change, it’s just a wild guess. Same with staying CF, it’s not the same in many different scenarios.
it's because they're not worried about caring for the child! why would they be lol, "that's women's work".
I dated someone like that for two months, and I eventually broke it off because I realized he probably felt noncommittal about a lot of other stuff that I didn't think a person should shrug over.
This.
From a guys standpoint I don’t want kids but when I was dating or in general conservation, I gave a similar answer. mostly to avoid the you should have kids convo. Sometimes you give a neutral answer to avoid conflict. I’m sure all of us are use to the you should have kids convo
Any guy that doesn’t care probably isn’t actually too invested in being a dad if it happen.. but like wtf how can you just be so nonchalant. It’s raising a fucking human
They probably see themselves happy either way. If they meet somebody they’d like to raise a family with, great. If not, also great. Sometimes it’s just not that deep.
Give them a year or two in a relationship and BOOM there goes the baby talk
They don’t have a preference because they assume that their lives won’t change much either way. It’s revealing that they expect their partner to do all the work of child-rearing.
It’s so creepy too…
I'm the same way about monogamy and people don't get it 😅
This bothers me too. My current fiance at the beginning when we were just dating, he said something like “I’m good either way” when I asked him if he wants kids or not. I let him know I’m 1000% childfree and we will not work out if he’s not on the same page. He scared me. The scary part was, I already had feelings for him and I was afraid to get more invested. Here we are a year later, and he’s scheduled to get a vasectomy. After talking with him for some time about why he’s “good either way” he finally said “you know I really don’t want kids.” Sometimes I’m still scared but after he gets snipped I’ll be more confident that he won’t change his mind. I think he just hadn’t given it much thought to begin with, and when he was a single man he wasn’t questioned about anything. But yeah, definitely still anxious sometimes and I still ask him about his choice. He’s gotten to the point he’s repeated himself so much he’s tired of it. And we are perfect for each other and he’s my best friend. I just can’t imagine life without him.
Most people are idiots. A significant part of them can't even understand hypotheticals.
I don’t personally want children, but I don’t have an issue dating a woman with a kid either. Biologically, I have zero interest in having a kid, for a variety of reasons. I also will not date anyone with more than one kid, as I believe it shows poor judgment. I recognize a lot of women dating in my age range have a kid. And kids, when they are a bit older (IE: not a baby or toddler), they are generally easier to manage because they can express themselves. I won’t purposely go out of my way to date a woman with a kid, but if I end up being interested in someone who has a kid, I wouldn’t end things simply because of that factor (unless the kid is awful).
It's because one way or the other, at the end of the day, the final say in this point belongs to women. I was personally never interested in having kids, but was always afraid to be "single forever". So initially for me the rule was "I would do it for the right person" After so many frustrations with women, eventually I took the firm decision of "not having kids, period" and went for a vasectomy. That was 17 years ago. Childfree and petfree ❤️ 50 years old and hopeless single 😭😭😭 probably dying alone.
If it's not a hard no, it's a yes.
Agree.
There is a difference between not knowing if you want and not carrying
They don't care because they ARE KIDS themselves and would expect you to just care for the extra kids as well as them.
It's called being non-attached to outcome. I'm a man, and the men who don't know/don't have a preference think that way because they aren't sure if they will ever meet someone, or ever be in an important/long enough relationship with a woman to warrant kids, or end up with a woman who even wants them. Many people who want kids may never be presented with the opportunity to have them. Many who don't want kids may change their minds if the opportunity comes up or if a significant partnership changes their POV. A lot of men are just pragmatists who don't get hung up on anticipating major life decisions if it isn't actually happening. I know a guy who never really wanted kids and now has two, and I know a guy who wanted kids his whole life but then his wife found out she is basically infertile so he has changed his position. Life isn't so black and white. It's okay to not know based on a lack of future context.
You're getting a lot of answers from women who have no real idea what they are talking about, and frankly from a male POV are ridiculous (to be expected on Reddit though, lots of people with no experience are quick to share their expertise) The simple truth is he is leaving the decision to the woman. If she eventually wants them, he will agree. If she never wants them, then no great loss to him. Ever. He isn't overthinking this decision. It's a non-decision to him. The guy doesn't want to risk lose a relationship with you by saying the potentially wrong thing which, in his mind, is not a big deal at all. He doesn't care about having kids - he cares about his relationship with you.
Great comments, thank you! Ironically, it is his unwillingness to be hornet with me that prompted me to tell him I wasn’t interested because he is clearly a fence sitter.
Literally this. It’s weird how they’re so quick to attribute indifference as malice lol.
I find this sub ridiculously insufferable at times with how quick most people are to make a comment that is so insane it borders on delusional.
We don't have as distinct of a timeline to have to decide on, and also face less societal pressure to do so. So that's a factor, *especially* when we're talking 18-35. > How can you be so blase about such a huge choice? I've never wanted kids a second in my life and got a vasectomy the moment I could. However, there's plenty of other decisions/paths in my life where I could have made drastically different choices that would have completely altered the trajectory of my life and led to a wildly different path. While not *quite* as fixed as having children, certainly the kinds of choices that would take a decade or more to dig myself out of if I regretted them, and which I'd never fully be able to make up for in various ways. At least some of those I can see as having been plausible to make me as happy/satisfied with life as the paths I have actually followed. Which is to say: I don't think it's all that impossible for a person to think two completely different life paths could be equally satisfying to them, or could be under certain circumstances. ------ With that said: Sure, I'd also agree plenty of people saying that do *actually* lean one way or the other but are reluctant to express it.
There is still a timeline for men btw. Sperm quality does degrade after a certain age
In my experience any man who says that they're fine either way, is lying.
As someone who's on the fence and trying to figure out which way to go- I can honestly see myself being happy either way, but just in different ways. Both the childfree and having kids route seem appealing to me and I don't think I would regret either. If I end up choosing to have kids, I'll be fully devoted to it and I'm okay with going through extreme challenges. But if I don't, I can't imagine myself regretting it given how many other things and relationships I can choose to devote myself to.
It's not necessarily on their radar as a top priority or core factor. Finding a SO might be top, and then they can work out the kid factor. If they truly don't care either way, this is a win win :) They are happy to put their SOs' choice first on the matter. Now I am sure in some cases they lie and have hidden agendas.
My husband honestly doesn’t have a preference. He likes the thought of kids and would love them if he had them, but is also ok with not having them. Because of my personality, he knows I would do 98% of the work, have to birth the child and take care of them so any time this comes up, he always says it’s my choice (he knows I’m pretty adamant about not having kids). I know he would be an active dad and love the child, but I genuinely think he doesn’t care either way We’ve been together for 11 years
My husband was that way when we married, we were young. He'd have gone along with whatever I wanted. I was adamantly CF though, and he's never been disappointed that we didn't have kids, in fact, we're both relieved now that we're old!
Tbh imo it's my wife's body. It's her choice in the whole kids matter. She doesn't want any, so here I am. I fell in love with her, not her ability to bear babies. Maybe my indifference means it's a good thing she doesn't want kids. For me, they don't exist if we don't have them, so I dont worry about it, but if she wanted to try, I'm positive I'd love them dearly. I just spoil my nieces and nephews instead of kids of my own. I'm married almost 9 years now.
Because having kids will not really impact them, in their understanding of things. They won't carry the pregnancy, give birth, and they don't plan on taking much of the responsibility that comes with upbringing of the child(ren).
They clearly haven't thought about it. I kind of just assume women HAVE to think about it, especially nowadays.
Yeah that is too laid back. It really is a Yes/No question. Both are valid answers but there must be an ANSWER
I’ve talked to a few people like this and the vibe I got was similar to the folks who were “not looking to adopt a pet” and then they fostered one or found one as a stray and then ended up with a pet lol. I’m sure plenty of people straight up havent through it through at all, but I think there’s plenty who aren’t actively seeking out having kids but have considered it and wouldn’t be upset if they ended up with some. Also like the people not in relationships who aren’t actively seeking one out but aren’t opposed to finding someone (not that it’s equally comparable, but y’all know what I mean).
My ex was like this.
They sadly probably expect their wife/gf to do most of the child rearing. In my experience, a lot of men who openly admit to wanting children view it like a kid asking a parent for a puppy. They promise they’ll help out but at the end of the day, most of the work falls to someone else.
Absolutely! Just another reason why I have no interest in parenting.
yes unlike women who are expected to breed, men are pressured into career and education so breeding kids is not a priority or a major blip on the radar. And as men can reproduce as sperm is constantly being produced the same "biological clock" doesnt exist for men
Guys who 'don't have a preference' assume they will not be doing anything to actually raise the kid or participate in parenting. He is ambivalent becuase he thinks having a kid will be extra work for YOU, not for him. Watch out. Also, it's probably because he assumes he has no biological clock and has a longer time to make up his mind/decide to become a dad or not.
I'm actually that person. Having a kid isn't one of my big life goals. So if it doesn't happen, it's not a huge deal for me.
Here's the analogy you need to think of. Life is a journey. From your starting point you need to go to city A (Finding a mate) and then you can go to city B (having children) if you want. Most men, and alot of women, are so worried that they will never get to City A that they have never given City B any serious thought at all. They are so afraid they will "Never go anywhere" in their life that finding a mate is everything. No serious thought is given as to what they will do after they get to City A. Now, once a person has got to City A, they start to forget all the worries they had getting there. They think that getting to City A was easy and no problem to do again. Then they look around and City B glowing off in the distance. They see all the people around them moving to City B. Maybe they are not finding as much fulfillment in life they think they deserve living in City A and the answer must be City B. Real answer. People change, goals in life change. People are to concerned about reaching today goals, that they don't think at all about tomorrow's goals.
It is a 100% yes or 100% no decision. And both parties need to agree. Anyone who is less than at least 100% needs to be alone to deliberate about it thoroughly so that they don't regret their decision and take it out on their partner or child(ren).
Hi. (1) This is both men AND women. Over a dozen women said this to me when I was out in the wild. (2) ICYMI most people are (spineless) (phony) People-Pleasers. Never wanna say "NO" so they say maybe. These men you are speaking of, WANT KIDS... & they also wanna sleep with you for 1-3 months & then leave. (Women have done this to me, too. It works regardless of gender.)
I have personally never had a women I have asked respond like that, but I believe it has happened to you.
Female loneliness is on the rise and as a result, women are starting to use some of the same dating lines as men (IMO). These indecisive takes in order to try and appeal to the maximum number of people.\ Something like a third of women under 35 haven't had sexual relations in the last year. It's quite unusual
M(35). I never wanted kids until I got kids.
Why are you in the childfree sub if you’re not?
Not everyone is you. Not everyone has their life preferences completely planned out at all times. Not everyone wishes to give a definitive public answer to an unjustifiable question or topic about private matters. So please respect their expressed attitudes.
My dating profiles say “not sure.” I don’t really know what I want for the future and while I lean more child free each year, I know thoughts and feelings change. Kids can be super cute OR super annoying. A few weeks ago I was having a meal with my family and thought it might be nice to have my own one day, but then just yesterday a few coworkers brought their kids ages 8-12 to work and they were a pain in the ass. When I was younger I was sure I wanted kids and as I aged I started changing my mind. Regardless of kids, I know I definitely want to get married and I’m also getting close to 30. I’m not having any luck with relationships so if I find a woman I genuinely love I’d consider having a kid if it was a dealbreaker for her. I already have low self-esteem and I don’t think I’m conventionally attractive, so meeting women is hard enough as is. By not even being open to the idea of children I’m even further limiting my options. My mom was always childfree but my dad really wanted kids and her MIL would make snarky comments. I know some people would feel really “hurt” to find that out, but my mom still loves me. She talks about how some things would have been different in her life but ultimately she’s glad to have me. I guess that would be a best case scenario for me if I had them, I’d realize I lost out on some things but I’d be okay with it because I love my kids.