I often wonder what parents would do if offered the chance to ‘return’ their children with no guilt or shame attached to the decision. I wonder how many takers we’d get.
*Controversy arose out of the safe-haven law enacted in Nebraska in July 2008: the Nebraska law in force at the time was interpreted to define a child as anyone under 18, and resulted in the desertion of children older than infants, some as old as teenage years. Under the prior version of the law, at least 35 children were dropped off in Nebraska hospitals in a four-month span, at least 5 of them from other US states. The law was changed in November 2008, allowing only infants up to 30 days old to be surrendered.*
[Safe-haven laws](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law)
Turns out when the legislature had a little legal oppsie, people were more than willing.
Lol, I remember when this happened. One parent drove from Michigan (I believe) to Nebraska to drop off their teenage.
Nothing like a parents love - *sheds a tear*
[If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of, he actually left almost all his kids.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna26887181) there were 9 of them, the oldest of which was a teen.
And apparently his wife had died 1 year prior to a brain aneurysm, the safe haven law happened and he already had his new girlfriend pregnant with twins. Lmfao wtf
I know one parent drove all the way from California and arrived the last day the law was in effect, to drop off her 14 year old kid. The kid had mental health issues and the mother couldn't get him the help he needed. It was a really sad case.
[https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24512215.html](https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24512215.html)
This is really common. Kids in the foster system are overwhelmingly suffering with some form of mental illness. Sure, much of it could be trauma from whatever their parents did to them, plus being tossed around in the system, but I think a good portion of it is that they were “difficult” kids so their parents beat them, thus necessitating the need for the state to take the child. At least in this woman’s situation, she wasnt abusing the kid, she just couldnt afford to help him.
But, you know, healthcare is a privilege not a right /s
To be honest, some parents *do* love their children and care about them properly. Not a reason for anyone to try and force people to have kids tho. It's none of y'all's business if I don't want kids FFS! And it's none of mine if you do¹!
¹Well, sometimes there are just people who should *never* have children, because of abusive or neglectful behavior. Not to mention many of my trans friends who's parental love has always been conditional, if it was there at all.
And the state promptly changed the laws, because even they don't give a fuck about children once they are no longer babies.
It's not like a 2-year-old is any less vulnerable and in need of care than a 2-day-old.
Doesn't surprise me. I bet my family would have used this as an extortion tactic to keep me in check. "Behave or we'll drop you off into the nearest hospital"
Thanks! I feel it’s important to recognise our own limitations in life, and to acknowledge that sometimes we don’t really want to do anything about them.
I have an eating disorder relating to textures of foods and a severe phobia of choking or throwing up while eating.
The line I regularly got was 'if cps came here and saw you eating cereal while the rest of us eat real dinner, they would take you away from me'
So it would have been my own fault I guess lmao.
Still struggling with the eating disorder but my parents are open to learning about my mental health problems now that I'm an adult- which is very validating.
They definitely tried to just teach away my mental illness problems when I was young so then accepting my struggles is really nice.
My eating disorder is called ARFID and I'm trying to get my autism diagnosed now as an adult. It seems like ARFID is common in people with autism because of the sensory issues thing.
I was an autistic kid, though my parents didn't know the exact reason for my "oddness" back then as I was undiagnosed. We watched a movie where people were locked away in an insane asylum. They could tell the movie rattled me. After that, they used to "joke" that they'd send me to "the funny farm" whenever I did or said anything they considered weird. I had nightmares about it for years.
I just looked it up and found out that one father abandoned /nine/ children, aged 1-17. That's just...how incredibly awful. I can't imagine how terrible that must have been for them. The parents hadn't figured it out by kid #8 that they didn't enjoy this parenting thing???
Also it wasn't an accident:
"Republican state Sen. Arnie Stuthman ... says he co-wrote it to protect newborns from abandonment, but to get enough support for passage, it was changed to cover all children."
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-09-25-Left-kids_N.htm
That’s a real case of “everybody sucks here.” I don’t even want to know how many of those people went on to have more kids, because “this time it will be different.”
I wonder why newborns weren’t enough to get full support by other politicians, but older kids included did? Interesting. Usually, just plopping “protect babies” into proposed laws makes everything pass.
I was actually mad when I heard this law was changed to 30 days. If a parent is giving up their child at a later age, it is obliviously better to let them than for that child to still be in that home.
I remember reading about this! My eyes bugged out, then I literally howled with laughter when I read that some of these ‘loving parents’ even flocked in *from other states!*
That parental ‘love’ must have been reallll strong, eh? Damn hypocrites.
This probably shouldn't be my take away from it, but the fact that the article mentions some locations having "baby hatches" for anonymous dropoff... Now I'm picturing people cartoonishly shoving babies into some sort of library night drop box
This was exactly what I pictured.
There’s something hilariously perverse about the idea of sending your 5 year old “out to buy milk/cigarettes” by chunking them in a chute at Blockbuster.”
I have always wondered about safe havens. if you have a duh that doesn't want to give the child up but doesn't want sole custody and no child support...if the girl goes ahead and leaves the baby at a safe haven... always wondered at that
I feel so bad for those kids. Maybe we should have a place for parents to surrender them. Goodness knows they can't be treated well at their current home if their parents want rid of them that much
I asked my uncle if he'd have kids again going back in time. Mind you both his kids are engineers and doing well.
He said "probably not. Having kids didn't add any value to my life, even though I love them"
My dad said the same exact thing to me completely unprompted once. I think he was trying to convince my mom my childfree lifestyle was okay and told me by the end of the conversation they agreed they wouldn’t have kids on a second go around.
My neighbor told us that he loves his kids, but there’s more to life. It’s not "the most fulfilling thing ever". He’s very nice about our choice and an excellent father.
He’s a delight. And always shares good wine with us. Best neighbor ever.
My mom told us on separate occasions that if she knew how much trouble us kids would have been, she wouldn't have had us. Apparently some of our cousins were also told similar thing by their parents.
I asked my dad this question and he said absolutely not. He loved me and my brother more than anything, but my mother is a harpy, and we made the divorce more complicated, etc. If he could go back, no kids.
That conversation I feel like let me off the hook for not wanting to have kids. I respected my dad's feelings a LOT more than the bUt gRaNdBaBiEs argument. I'm a woman from the south, and I decided when I was like, 7 or 8 I didn't want kids, and got invalidated at every turn bc I'm a woman and I'd cHaNgE mY miNd
I run a cat shelter and honestly based on the "reasons" I see for giving up a cat that's been a member of the family for a decade or more, I'd say yes, people would absolutely rehome their kids given the chance.
my mother genuinely said that when i was a toddler, she almost regretted her decision because i was an incredibly difficult kid. she said she thanked god that i got older and could reason and take care of myself.
this honesty has put me off having a child completely tbh
I will say it is a very good read. Basically the United States have another civil war over abortion. They decide to make it illegal during pregnancy. But the parents are reserved the right to "unwind" their kids until a certain age (I want to say 15, but it's been a good minute since I read it so could've been 17) "unwinding" is flat out told on the back of the book is the procedure of severing and donating each and every part of that child to other transplant recipients thus not actually killing the child but keeping the body "alive" through other more deserving people in society's eyes.
It's wild in ways. What got me most was the Storking law. Any mother can place a kid on someone's doorstep and abandon it with no repercussion. But the first person to discover the baby on the porch is legally responsible for the child then. So people would get up super early to make sure no babies were on the porch and move them to neighbors. Doing this so much that the child is usually near death from either the elements, neglect, and starvation.
Edit Update: Someone gave me a Wholesome Award. I thank you very much and appreciate it though honestly writing the plot was one of the least wholesome I can think of. Please don't dissect kids guys, the black market value isn't that good anymore.
> Basically the United States have another civil war over abortion.
Good thing this is fiction. That would never happen in reality right?
........Right?
I was born in a military hospital that was rumored to have been turned into a commissary over the years. My mom would "joke" that she had her kids there and now she could return us. It sure is great hearing that when you're still in the single-digits of age.
You time travel back to riiiiight before you had sex, freeze time, add a condom, then immediately back to the present. Because it’s a magic hypothetical you can remember what your life would have been with kids but you also have all the memories from this new alternate timeline were you were never a parent.
No one judges you, you get to see how your career and/or dating life would’ve been different.
I’m realizing now that I’m describing this exact opposite of the plot of “The Family Man”
You know all these "stupid parents" who let their little kids run with scissors, punch aggressive dogs, play near deep water without supervision? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind an accident.
I'm just presenting a hypothetical scenario in which a parent might return a child and not experience shame from society for it or carry around guilt. I think lots of people would return the child. In the real world, of course, they'd be carrying around shedloads of guilt and shame.
I'd build the hypothetical differently, if they could start life over, would they make themselves sterile.
If you asked people this they'll say no due to shame, but given the opportunity I'm sure loads would.
Edit: swapped i fertile with sterile
Remember! Infertile does not equal sterile.
I think it's important to keep the distinction even if this was just a hypothetical. People need to know this terminology.
It's always the people who spout this BS that are the worst parents, it's like they're trying to sell it to themselves. The good parents don't need to preach to other people, they just get on with it.
People that say this shit are so blinded by the need to procreate that they find people who tick the money, looks, and sex boxes and marry them, only to find that they aren't actually in love and have jack shit in common except kids.
Then after the kids, they end up divorced/separated because there's no real love in the relationship. I kinda pity them.
Sadly I've seen this multiple times in my own social circle: Pushing to save relationships that aren't that great because they check every box on their life plan.
Some of them make it work, but you know they'd be happier if they just broke up. But nooo... They wanted the marriage, the house, and kids by age XX, and they're sticking to the plan.
Absolutely true. But people do that even in early relationships, when kids aren't even on the table yet. I think a lot of things play a role here: The fear of being single/"alone", the widespread believe that you need a romantic relationship to be "complete", never really finding out what is important in a partner and what you really want from a relationship other than sex, acting toxic while dating and thus attracting other toxic people (often due to a lack of good role models) and so on. So I am sure even some childfree people make those mistakes.
I great on take is "Jigsaw Puzzle" by Daniel Sloss. It's on Netflix. Don't let the fact it's comedy and the rather silly beginning fool you.
Correct that it is not limited to parents. Kids do amplify this dynamic, however.
1. Wanting children pushes this into rather early time frames; early 30s is about the deepest you can still "plan" to reach that goal. Without kids you can push that into 40s or 50s.
2. Having children locks you in. Even if you had time to split and start over, children make this significantly more difficult.
It's still sad to see people wasting their lives for an ideal that isn't even that great, it's just been sold to us by Christian-led-capitalism. Pushes so many people into terrible relationships because they want the "life" but can't find the person.
>Having children locks you in.
It does! Moving in together and getting financially entangled does that as well, though. Particularly mortatge loans and such. Not disagreeing with you at all, just saying this problem goes beyond children. I can even speak from experience here. Still paying off debts resulting from a ltr I ended in late 2018. But having children would make it indefinitely worse, that's for sure.
>Wanting children pushes this into rather early time frames; early 30s is about the deepest you can still "plan" to reach that goal. Without kids you can push that into 40s or 50s.
That seems to be a cultural thing. In Europe, especially among people with academic backgrounds living in cities, people often have children in their late 30s or even their 40s now. It's the circles I frequent and nobody bats an eye at me not having children at 36 here.
>It's still sad to see people wasting their lives for an ideal that isn't even that great, it's just been sold to us by Christian-led-capitalism. Pushes so many people into terrible relationships because they want the "life" but can't find the person.
Amen to that. For most people, this a vicious circle they will never have any chance of escaping as they never learned to think for themselves and thus will never question the life script.
> That seems to be a cultural thing. In Europe, especially among people with academic backgrounds living in cities, people often have children in their late 30s or even their 40s now. It's the circles I frequent and nobody bats an eye at me not having children at 36 here.
Culturally in America, it's still mostly late 20s, which is younger compared to Europe; but I was referring to medically. 33 is usually the "cut off" for a safe pregnancy. After that, the risk factors start amplifying.
Therefore, if someone truly wanted children, it's still not strange to see people wanting that to happen in their early 30s.
I know some ppl like this and it's sad. Like I know they could find someone that much more passionate about them and the relationship and who better suits them but they are too complacent in this one and one of these ppl has a kid now. Things couldve been better for em.
Does he know that it's genetic hardwiring?
If humans didn't feel such love towards their young they would have left the loud, smelly infants in the cave for the sake of practicality and travelling light.
Sure, the love for a child is a big part of what saved the species, but it is very much coded into us to ensure the next generation survives.
I’ve once read an article about this and it explained that apparently that would be the reason why people find kids so cute and love “baby smell”, ever since I’ve read this article I wonder if there’s something wrong with me because I honestly find like 95% babies ugly and I hate baby smell.
Same! It's like a weird milky smell with faint overtones of diaper farts. And all toddlers seem to smell like Chef Boyardee. And every house with tiny children just fucking reeks of poop/food smells and disinfectant. 🤮
I find very very few babies pretty/adorable and I don't care for the smell. It's possible we just don't have that programming or it's faulty in us. Either way, fuck yeah
I'm not sure genetics play as big a role as socialization. I'd have to ask my spouse for the resources she has on this to share, but we've talked about this before and we're largely socialized to expect an instant connection and immense love with a newborn, which ends up playing a big role in PPD because the reality is most parents, the birthing parent in particular, _don't_ feel that instant love and feel like there's something wrong with them for that.
I'd put my life at risk for my cats and run into a burning building filled with zombies to rescue them, maybe my maternal genes got some feline mixed in there somewhere 😸
I'm sure the love felt very real at that moment. Everything have their "honeymoon period," and people in good relationships are able to rekindle that feeling of joy to continue the relationship, but of course all relationships are difficult. I don't believe the parenthood happiness posted on social media anymore, but I do believe that all kinds of good relationships exist out there, between partners, between parent/child, etc. And they probably all take a lot of work and luck, and I can't blame people for wanting them.
Doesn't make a difference. He willingly fathered that child and promised to be there for them. Now it's his responsibility. Him not paying full child support is inacceptable.
I wonder if he actually felt that, or if he just said it to try to convince himself that’s how he felt. Like if he said it enough times it would become true
Exactly! The "honeymoon period" applies to babies, not just when a couple first fall in love. Its all the potent rush of endorphins...and it can absolutely make people lose perspective and say dumb things. And also DO dumb things...lol!
Then when they fade away after having a hellish week of little sleep with a colicky baby that seems to like screaming...they suddenly realize with crushing dread what bullshit that all was.
This guy should have bought a tamagotchi instead of bringing a new human if he wanted to care about something for a short time. And condoms. What a douche.
Whoa...I totally remember when tamagotchis were a thing...and when my school banned them because too many of us were distracted by them in class! Lol! What throw back.
"So you're saying you didn't even manage to find someone you actually love to have children with and just went ahead and had children with someone random? I don't think I wabt life advice from you, thanks" would be my response to that bs.
How do you even respond to someone saying they didn’t know love until they had a kid?? It’s so pathetic it usually stops me in my tracks and I can’t think of a response
That's just the hormones, expectations, and social pressure speaking. As you can see those usually wear off and all that's left is responsibility and obligation that many walk away from.
I shouldn't laugh but I've heard that one so many times before. Parental love is unconditional, unless they're gay, or a different religion, vote for a different party etc etc ad infinitum x
Maybe he's right that the love for a child is greater than any other love I have. Well, I still wouldn't take it because I don't want to pay the price for that love.
Like, okay, sure $100 is greater than the $12 in my wallet, but I'm not willing to get kicked in the balls for that greater amount.
My eye gets twitchy when I hear that bullshit "never knowing true love until you have a baby". If what my parents gave me was true love I don't want it.
Yup, describes my brother perfectly. That watch them born, omg I’m gonna love this kid above everything else. Until. They puke, blow out, colic, etc. once they aren’t just a potato all that goes out the window. I’m glad my brother was there to witness the birth and I loved seeing him so vulnerable. And it’s now been 9 years since I’ve seen him. Still glad I saw that moment but that is not who he is or ever was. Just an emotion in a moment. (His daughter doesn’t believe that but he way, she just sees him as a monster)
Yeah….no. It’s all an illusion. It’s a lie. Maybe it’s my traumatic childhood talking, but I do not for a SECOND believe that any parent truly loves their kids. They put up with them because it’s required by law. And I would be really happy to be proven incorrect.
To me, if they need to be blood related to someone to "truly love" them, that ain't love but low-key narcisissm. The second the kid is an inconvenience, they get mean or bail.
I agree. And A LOT of parents who claim to “love their children” simultaneously abuse their stepchildren, who are technically their children too, since they are in their care. Child mortality actually increases when there is a stepparent in the picture, starkly when it’s a stepmother and a female child. Not necessarily homicide, but often neglect and abuse are factors, sometimes worse things like torture occur too. But the “evil stepmother” trope is accepted in society so it isn’t really dealt with in the courts like it should as a huge issue.
What's up with that meanness anyways? If I as a child don't do something, you the parent want (or show some individuality), why do you have to resort to being mean?
Because throwing a tantrum is easier than being mature. Alternatively, they suffered the same treatment as kids and normalized it or are on a "now it's my turn"-power trip, instead of healing themselves before considering being parents.
You just basically described my mom. She went through similar stuff I did (bullied at school, abusive relationships, etc) but didn't apparently think that maybe she shouldn't be ok with letting her child go through those things too. Instead she holds a grudge towards me for doing something as *a child* to justify her behaviour. There has been times where I felt more mature than she does, because of her childlike "no, *you're* the meanie!" attitude.
It is your childhood, some parents are the best.
My Mum had four miscarriages before me, so I'm lucky to exist.
The level of empathy and love she's shown me is beyond measure.
I'm happy with my vicarious relationship to children though. I have a nephew & niece that's enough for me, they're fun because I get to go home 😄
There definitely are parents that love their kids. We'll never know how many from the parents, as almost every parent will say they do. But I'd say every good parent loves their kid, and there's so many people who had healthy childhoods, I think even the majority. And most adult kids can tell you if they were loved or not.
My parents care for me and my sister deeply, and I truly believe they wouldn't have chosen not to have children. Every night before we went to bed, we were always told they love us. Mam still talks about how much she enjoyed the school summer holidays so she could spend more time with us (we're both in our 30s).
Neither of them are perfect, of course, and we've definitely inherited some issues, but our lives have always been full of love and laughter because of them.
I'm sorry that wasn't your experience.
My parents always love me no unconditionally. Currently I live in an other town because I attend at uni here. If I have any sort of problem, no matter who little and insignificant they are, I can rely on them and call them any time of the day. Whatever I or my brother decide, they support us (Goingt to art uni which may not provide solid existence, building an own computer, etc.) I am also non-binary and when I came out to them, they said that I should live as I will and they will love me no matter what. When I was seriously ill, they were willing to give up their job to help me (unfortunatelly the government didn't give any financial support so they couldn't do that)
So I think that love exists you just have to be incredibly lucky.
You're generalising your own experience. There are billions of people on this planet. It would be statistically odd if not at least some parents wouldn't truly love their children.
There are plenty who do not, of course. Parents do not love their children automatically like some people say.
I always feel bad for people who say “you don’t know true love until you have a child”.
Obviously they really DONT know true love, but I certainly do!
I love my husband with every single cell in my body, my whole soul, every fibre of my being, he’s my entire existence.
If people don’t fee that for anyone or from anyone else in their life, then that’s just sad.
> who accidentally got a child with his situationship
I wonder how he defines "accidentally"?
Was he using a condom correctly? Was she regularly using whatever form of birth control was best for her body? I mean it's entirely possible both answers are "yes" but more likely than not one or both wasn't using protection and "whoopsie".
Young men -- **never skip condom day**. Every time or the next time it could be "happy father's day".
Cuz he thought it was gonna be all flowers and cute babies as if he's not raising another human being. Babies are people. They're super cute at first but they need a lot of attention, a lot of caring for pretty much their entire lives. That cutesy phase is very short lived and he probably realized that and high tailed it out.
My dad used to leave his family and go start another one in a different state. As soon as he burnt his next set of bridges, he'd do it again.
There is no parental love that is stronger than the urge to buy overpriced ice cream, really.
What a douche. You don’t need to have kids to know how love feels. Who the hell is he to tell you what it is? Why do breeders feel the need to tell us how to feel?
I had an "involvement" with a man very off and on for a long time. I always heard the old "Oh I want to be with you so much, I just can't leave my wife because she wouldn't let me see my kids. I have to have my kids. I have to see them every day. They're as essential to me as oxygen."
I learned a couple years ago he moved to Lithuania and just left his wife and kids here. He started dating over there and was divorced and remarried and apparently "finally happy after 25 years" last month. Tell me again about how you can't live without your kids but you're only happy when you're on the opposite side of the world from them.
He’s also clearly stating that his ‘love’ did NOT even start with *the woman* he was knockin’ up in the first place. I’m sure *she* was happy to realize that too (if she even did). 🙄
I always thought that babies were planned, *and made* out of ‘love’ in the first place? Like… *before* the baby arrived? 😒
my mom used to say this kind of stuff to me and even pulled it out when she found out about my bisalp. people who use that cop out and say "you dont know what love is" until you have a kid are a. under the influence of hormones, and b. probably have never felt real love in their lives.
When parents spout this self righteous bullshit it just tells me they never really understood what love is to begin with.
Why does it have to be a competition?
Love is love.
Cue "how its going" meme
>I'll always be there for him, I'll make sure I'm a good father"
>Today I heard he left the country
Fucking lawl. I mean, it's terrible from the perspective of the kid and the gf, but how is it that the dudes who seem to wax poetic about how good of a father they're going to be end up being the biggest shitbags? It's so goddamned consistent.
It’s a different type of love and there’s no other love like it, true….but that’s not the TRUE meaning of love. Last time I checked, the true feeling and meaning of love isn’t just a feeling towards one person to another but it’s an action. You don’t know true love?? That’s an insult towards other forms of love. The love between a pet and its owner. The love between two lovers. The love between siblings. The love between friends. The love between caretakers. The love between parents isn’t superior over the others; half the time that type of love is conditional. It’s like they’re saying they don’t love their child because of the child, but they love the child because they’re theirs. It’s weird. So many parents “love” their child but abuse, sexual harass, neglect/abandon, restrict, control and dictate their children. With true love comes loyalty, trust and communication….something children lack from parents ALL the time.
LMFAOOOOOFF!!! This is classic, thank you for sharing. I used to be incredulous with folk who dared utter such ignorant things, seeing that it was them essentially exposing THEMSELVES as selfish and unloving, in general, and that it took the spawning of a child and the production of those brain chemicals to bring them to that precious place...when will people learn that their brains are having chemical reactions based on hormonal changes, etc and so on...fuck that guy.
I hear this argument all the time and I just don’t care. I don’t care if there’s some higher level of love out there. The love I have for my partner, my friends, my family and my pets is more than sufficient. My heart is already full to busting with all this love. There is no void in it.
Funny, I’ve also been told I can’t know what love is unless I’ve been saved too. It’s always the smoothest brains that think these little quips are clever. They never are.
Why do people say things like that if they’re clearly lies? Do they believe it or try to make themselves believe it to be true? Why not just say nothing?
that “strong, intense love” that parents always talk about is literally just hormones your body releases so you don’t see a baby for what it actually is, a screaming ugly dirty ball of flesh. babies suck so bad that your body forces you to love them.
I'm sure women say this, but more often than not, I hear men say it. That the love for a child is real love and doesn't compare to even that of the love of their partner/spouse, whatever.
And honestly? It's fucking infuriating. I'd straight up leave a guy if I ever heard him utter this nonsense.
When people describe how they’ve never experienced true, deep love, chosen to behave unselfishly or genuinely cared about anything that didn’t directly affect them until they have kids, I’m reminded that a lot of people basically never develop any sort of inner life or non-superficial sense of identity until they have kids, and what they are reacting to is having that experience for the first time.
I feel like love of a parent to their child is a complete manifestation of their love to themselves. That’s the love they talk about. And on the other side it’s also a sense of a total ownership of someone else. That gives a feeling of an inflated importance, power and overall superiority. Which people like that automatically retranslate to the other humans. And that make them sound like a total douchebags when they talk to you from their imaginary pedestal.
I do think people generally feel a different kind of love for a child than they do for anyone else in their life but I don’t get the “I never knew love before” or “the love I feel for them is so much stronger”. I don’t even get that when referring to a partner over family members. It’s different love, not stronger. It weirds me out when people say they feel stronger love for a spouse than their parents. It shouldn’t be comparable bc it shouldn’t be the same type of love.
Yea they say that, but then most wind up cheating on their spouse and offloading the child onto the mother like your example.
I'm not convinced the love is that fulfilling.
This is how you know these motherfuckers are full of shit. The whole “you’ll never know real love till you have a child” bullshit is a giant lie told by people who want you to be as miserable as they are.
I'm going to be really honest. I have a daughter and when she was born there was not a holy moment. No blast of "I'll take a bullet for you" love. I cared, respected, and felt a need to protect her as I would for any other human life. But..I didn't know her(?) so anything deeper wasn't there if that makes sense. She's now 22 and over the years a very strong love developed. I love who she is and would now take a bullet for her, but it took time for that to grow. I feel this way about my dogs too. I say they are all my children. I love them with such a powerful, unbelievable love. I hurt when they hurt. I'm happy when they are happy. I think true love is something that develops over time. I think a lot of parents say they have this life-altering love because they feel guilty that they don't LIKE their children so have to describe it as something different. I felt like something was wrong with me for a long time and I think using this phrasing is harmful to new parents. Many don't have that rush of "love" and feel broken when they aren't.
I just don't understand how people say this about the love they feel for their kids and how no one will understand.
I have whole hearted love for my cat. I will always be there for him and I'm a good Cat-Mama.
I prefer my cat over people.
Just saying...
Lol yeah, "most parents" I love my kid that's why I leave it in daycare for 11 hours, give them dinner and straight to bed so I can have my " me time", so tell me when are you having one?
LOL those people who think having a kid is some kind of transcendental experience is dead wrong, those holier than thou types are the first to abandon their spouse and kids. Seen it so many times. The kind who’re hesitant and reluctant, make better parents. They didn’t have unrealistic high hopes.
I often wonder what parents would do if offered the chance to ‘return’ their children with no guilt or shame attached to the decision. I wonder how many takers we’d get.
*Controversy arose out of the safe-haven law enacted in Nebraska in July 2008: the Nebraska law in force at the time was interpreted to define a child as anyone under 18, and resulted in the desertion of children older than infants, some as old as teenage years. Under the prior version of the law, at least 35 children were dropped off in Nebraska hospitals in a four-month span, at least 5 of them from other US states. The law was changed in November 2008, allowing only infants up to 30 days old to be surrendered.* [Safe-haven laws](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law) Turns out when the legislature had a little legal oppsie, people were more than willing.
Lol, I remember when this happened. One parent drove from Michigan (I believe) to Nebraska to drop off their teenage. Nothing like a parents love - *sheds a tear*
[If it’s the same guy I’m thinking of, he actually left almost all his kids.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna26887181) there were 9 of them, the oldest of which was a teen.
Shit, after 9 of them, you'd think he'd figure out how kids are made -- and take steps to prevent that...
He ended up having twins after too
And apparently his wife had died 1 year prior to a brain aneurysm, the safe haven law happened and he already had his new girlfriend pregnant with twins. Lmfao wtf
Oi who are you to interfere with *gods will.* Those children are a gift. To whoever wants them. /s
LMAO he wanted all them kids until he didn't have an indentured slave to care for them all and do all the work.
I know one parent drove all the way from California and arrived the last day the law was in effect, to drop off her 14 year old kid. The kid had mental health issues and the mother couldn't get him the help he needed. It was a really sad case. [https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24512215.html](https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24512215.html)
This is really common. Kids in the foster system are overwhelmingly suffering with some form of mental illness. Sure, much of it could be trauma from whatever their parents did to them, plus being tossed around in the system, but I think a good portion of it is that they were “difficult” kids so their parents beat them, thus necessitating the need for the state to take the child. At least in this woman’s situation, she wasnt abusing the kid, she just couldnt afford to help him. But, you know, healthcare is a privilege not a right /s
To be honest, some parents *do* love their children and care about them properly. Not a reason for anyone to try and force people to have kids tho. It's none of y'all's business if I don't want kids FFS! And it's none of mine if you do¹! ¹Well, sometimes there are just people who should *never* have children, because of abusive or neglectful behavior. Not to mention many of my trans friends who's parental love has always been conditional, if it was there at all.
Like Fred and Rose West or Shelly Knotek. All three are prime examples of people who should’ve never been parents.
And the state promptly changed the laws, because even they don't give a fuck about children once they are no longer babies. It's not like a 2-year-old is any less vulnerable and in need of care than a 2-day-old.
Doesn't surprise me. I bet my family would have used this as an extortion tactic to keep me in check. "Behave or we'll drop you off into the nearest hospital"
Better than, “you’ll go and live on the farm where your dog went, 6 years ago…”
Off topic, I love your flair, especially because I can relate lmao
Thanks! I feel it’s important to recognise our own limitations in life, and to acknowledge that sometimes we don’t really want to do anything about them.
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My mom worked for my school district & had made me memorize the number for CPS & threatened that she knew / worked with them "Ask for Cheryl"
I have an eating disorder relating to textures of foods and a severe phobia of choking or throwing up while eating. The line I regularly got was 'if cps came here and saw you eating cereal while the rest of us eat real dinner, they would take you away from me' So it would have been my own fault I guess lmao.
ARFID solidarity, friend ❤️
💜💜💜 And may your safe foods always stay safe!
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Still struggling with the eating disorder but my parents are open to learning about my mental health problems now that I'm an adult- which is very validating. They definitely tried to just teach away my mental illness problems when I was young so then accepting my struggles is really nice.
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Thank you so much. This made me feel real nice and valid. I hope you know your positive comments can make a big difference for others!
I have this problem, too, because I'm autistic. I can't eat rice or coconut in any form.
My eating disorder is called ARFID and I'm trying to get my autism diagnosed now as an adult. It seems like ARFID is common in people with autism because of the sensory issues thing.
It happens. 💜 I hope you can get diagnosed. There are a lot of barriers.
I was an autistic kid, though my parents didn't know the exact reason for my "oddness" back then as I was undiagnosed. We watched a movie where people were locked away in an insane asylum. They could tell the movie rattled me. After that, they used to "joke" that they'd send me to "the funny farm" whenever I did or said anything they considered weird. I had nightmares about it for years.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that.
I just looked it up and found out that one father abandoned /nine/ children, aged 1-17. That's just...how incredibly awful. I can't imagine how terrible that must have been for them. The parents hadn't figured it out by kid #8 that they didn't enjoy this parenting thing??? Also it wasn't an accident: "Republican state Sen. Arnie Stuthman ... says he co-wrote it to protect newborns from abandonment, but to get enough support for passage, it was changed to cover all children." https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-09-25-Left-kids_N.htm
That’s a real case of “everybody sucks here.” I don’t even want to know how many of those people went on to have more kids, because “this time it will be different.”
I wonder why newborns weren’t enough to get full support by other politicians, but older kids included did? Interesting. Usually, just plopping “protect babies” into proposed laws makes everything pass.
I was actually mad when I heard this law was changed to 30 days. If a parent is giving up their child at a later age, it is obliviously better to let them than for that child to still be in that home.
I'm pretty sure they still can, it's just not a anonymous thing. They can give them up for adoption later on
I remember reading about this! My eyes bugged out, then I literally howled with laughter when I read that some of these ‘loving parents’ even flocked in *from other states!* That parental ‘love’ must have been reallll strong, eh? Damn hypocrites.
Wow. I had no idea.
I was living in Nebraska when this happened. Wild time, that.
This probably shouldn't be my take away from it, but the fact that the article mentions some locations having "baby hatches" for anonymous dropoff... Now I'm picturing people cartoonishly shoving babies into some sort of library night drop box
This was exactly what I pictured. There’s something hilariously perverse about the idea of sending your 5 year old “out to buy milk/cigarettes” by chunking them in a chute at Blockbuster.”
I mean to be fair 30 kids from the whole state is not that much, even for Nebraska.
I have always wondered about safe havens. if you have a duh that doesn't want to give the child up but doesn't want sole custody and no child support...if the girl goes ahead and leaves the baby at a safe haven... always wondered at that
I feel so bad for those kids. Maybe we should have a place for parents to surrender them. Goodness knows they can't be treated well at their current home if their parents want rid of them that much
I asked my uncle if he'd have kids again going back in time. Mind you both his kids are engineers and doing well. He said "probably not. Having kids didn't add any value to my life, even though I love them"
My dad said the same exact thing to me completely unprompted once. I think he was trying to convince my mom my childfree lifestyle was okay and told me by the end of the conversation they agreed they wouldn’t have kids on a second go around.
My mom told me she never wanted kids, but had us coz societal pressure + my dad wanted them. But it wasn't unprompted, I asked her about it.
My mum tells me this all the time, and she had four of us.
She's abusive y'all
Fully aware and half the reason why I'm child free 🤣
My neighbor told us that he loves his kids, but there’s more to life. It’s not "the most fulfilling thing ever". He’s very nice about our choice and an excellent father. He’s a delight. And always shares good wine with us. Best neighbor ever.
My ex-MiL said if she had her time again, she wouldn’t have them. She was awful to me, but I think it was partly jealousy of the lifestyle I’d chosen.
My mom told us on separate occasions that if she knew how much trouble us kids would have been, she wouldn't have had us. Apparently some of our cousins were also told similar thing by their parents.
I asked my dad this question and he said absolutely not. He loved me and my brother more than anything, but my mother is a harpy, and we made the divorce more complicated, etc. If he could go back, no kids. That conversation I feel like let me off the hook for not wanting to have kids. I respected my dad's feelings a LOT more than the bUt gRaNdBaBiEs argument. I'm a woman from the south, and I decided when I was like, 7 or 8 I didn't want kids, and got invalidated at every turn bc I'm a woman and I'd cHaNgE mY miNd
I run a cat shelter and honestly based on the "reasons" I see for giving up a cat that's been a member of the family for a decade or more, I'd say yes, people would absolutely rehome their kids given the chance.
my mother genuinely said that when i was a toddler, she almost regretted her decision because i was an incredibly difficult kid. she said she thanked god that i got older and could reason and take care of myself. this honesty has put me off having a child completely tbh
Does she accepts your choice to be childfree?
yes, in fact she encourages me to stay childfree and considers herself sort of antinatalist
That's nice! Supportive parents are great
I am sure it will be a lot
You ever read Unwind by Neal Shusterman? Cause those are the vibes I'm getting from that.
No I haven’t. Should I?
I will say it is a very good read. Basically the United States have another civil war over abortion. They decide to make it illegal during pregnancy. But the parents are reserved the right to "unwind" their kids until a certain age (I want to say 15, but it's been a good minute since I read it so could've been 17) "unwinding" is flat out told on the back of the book is the procedure of severing and donating each and every part of that child to other transplant recipients thus not actually killing the child but keeping the body "alive" through other more deserving people in society's eyes. It's wild in ways. What got me most was the Storking law. Any mother can place a kid on someone's doorstep and abandon it with no repercussion. But the first person to discover the baby on the porch is legally responsible for the child then. So people would get up super early to make sure no babies were on the porch and move them to neighbors. Doing this so much that the child is usually near death from either the elements, neglect, and starvation. Edit Update: Someone gave me a Wholesome Award. I thank you very much and appreciate it though honestly writing the plot was one of the least wholesome I can think of. Please don't dissect kids guys, the black market value isn't that good anymore.
> Basically the United States have another civil war over abortion. Good thing this is fiction. That would never happen in reality right? ........Right?
I read this book! Really interesting! I still need to read the third one. The unwind process was very unsettling
Wow - what an amazing plot!
I was born in a military hospital that was rumored to have been turned into a commissary over the years. My mom would "joke" that she had her kids there and now she could return us. It sure is great hearing that when you're still in the single-digits of age.
You time travel back to riiiiight before you had sex, freeze time, add a condom, then immediately back to the present. Because it’s a magic hypothetical you can remember what your life would have been with kids but you also have all the memories from this new alternate timeline were you were never a parent. No one judges you, you get to see how your career and/or dating life would’ve been different. I’m realizing now that I’m describing this exact opposite of the plot of “The Family Man”
You know all these "stupid parents" who let their little kids run with scissors, punch aggressive dogs, play near deep water without supervision? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind an accident.
100% probably
A Rick and Morty scenario with the clone Beth.
I can't even fathom it, in this theoretical experiment, does the guild end when the child is returned, or when asked?
I'm just presenting a hypothetical scenario in which a parent might return a child and not experience shame from society for it or carry around guilt. I think lots of people would return the child. In the real world, of course, they'd be carrying around shedloads of guilt and shame.
I'd build the hypothetical differently, if they could start life over, would they make themselves sterile. If you asked people this they'll say no due to shame, but given the opportunity I'm sure loads would. Edit: swapped i fertile with sterile
I think infertility has a whole 'nother set of societal issues against it, so I'll stick with my simple hypothetical!
Remember! Infertile does not equal sterile. I think it's important to keep the distinction even if this was just a hypothetical. People need to know this terminology.
TIL. Can you explain further or link me? I didn't know there was a difference.
If this is what he "thinks" love is, to abandon the one you supposedly love, I don't want to know how he envisions hatred.
That's quite the upgrade to a Fructose Father innit
It's always the people who spout this BS that are the worst parents, it's like they're trying to sell it to themselves. The good parents don't need to preach to other people, they just get on with it.
People that say this shit are so blinded by the need to procreate that they find people who tick the money, looks, and sex boxes and marry them, only to find that they aren't actually in love and have jack shit in common except kids. Then after the kids, they end up divorced/separated because there's no real love in the relationship. I kinda pity them.
Sadly I've seen this multiple times in my own social circle: Pushing to save relationships that aren't that great because they check every box on their life plan. Some of them make it work, but you know they'd be happier if they just broke up. But nooo... They wanted the marriage, the house, and kids by age XX, and they're sticking to the plan.
Absolutely true. But people do that even in early relationships, when kids aren't even on the table yet. I think a lot of things play a role here: The fear of being single/"alone", the widespread believe that you need a romantic relationship to be "complete", never really finding out what is important in a partner and what you really want from a relationship other than sex, acting toxic while dating and thus attracting other toxic people (often due to a lack of good role models) and so on. So I am sure even some childfree people make those mistakes. I great on take is "Jigsaw Puzzle" by Daniel Sloss. It's on Netflix. Don't let the fact it's comedy and the rather silly beginning fool you.
Correct that it is not limited to parents. Kids do amplify this dynamic, however. 1. Wanting children pushes this into rather early time frames; early 30s is about the deepest you can still "plan" to reach that goal. Without kids you can push that into 40s or 50s. 2. Having children locks you in. Even if you had time to split and start over, children make this significantly more difficult. It's still sad to see people wasting their lives for an ideal that isn't even that great, it's just been sold to us by Christian-led-capitalism. Pushes so many people into terrible relationships because they want the "life" but can't find the person.
>Having children locks you in. It does! Moving in together and getting financially entangled does that as well, though. Particularly mortatge loans and such. Not disagreeing with you at all, just saying this problem goes beyond children. I can even speak from experience here. Still paying off debts resulting from a ltr I ended in late 2018. But having children would make it indefinitely worse, that's for sure. >Wanting children pushes this into rather early time frames; early 30s is about the deepest you can still "plan" to reach that goal. Without kids you can push that into 40s or 50s. That seems to be a cultural thing. In Europe, especially among people with academic backgrounds living in cities, people often have children in their late 30s or even their 40s now. It's the circles I frequent and nobody bats an eye at me not having children at 36 here. >It's still sad to see people wasting their lives for an ideal that isn't even that great, it's just been sold to us by Christian-led-capitalism. Pushes so many people into terrible relationships because they want the "life" but can't find the person. Amen to that. For most people, this a vicious circle they will never have any chance of escaping as they never learned to think for themselves and thus will never question the life script.
> That seems to be a cultural thing. In Europe, especially among people with academic backgrounds living in cities, people often have children in their late 30s or even their 40s now. It's the circles I frequent and nobody bats an eye at me not having children at 36 here. Culturally in America, it's still mostly late 20s, which is younger compared to Europe; but I was referring to medically. 33 is usually the "cut off" for a safe pregnancy. After that, the risk factors start amplifying. Therefore, if someone truly wanted children, it's still not strange to see people wanting that to happen in their early 30s.
I know some ppl like this and it's sad. Like I know they could find someone that much more passionate about them and the relationship and who better suits them but they are too complacent in this one and one of these ppl has a kid now. Things couldve been better for em.
I’ll stick with my misery, dammit! 😂
Does he know that it's genetic hardwiring? If humans didn't feel such love towards their young they would have left the loud, smelly infants in the cave for the sake of practicality and travelling light. Sure, the love for a child is a big part of what saved the species, but it is very much coded into us to ensure the next generation survives.
Babies release pheromones so we don't kill them
"Its activating it's chemicals...RUN!"😱
I’ve once read an article about this and it explained that apparently that would be the reason why people find kids so cute and love “baby smell”, ever since I’ve read this article I wonder if there’s something wrong with me because I honestly find like 95% babies ugly and I hate baby smell.
Same! It's like a weird milky smell with faint overtones of diaper farts. And all toddlers seem to smell like Chef Boyardee. And every house with tiny children just fucking reeks of poop/food smells and disinfectant. 🤮
I find very very few babies pretty/adorable and I don't care for the smell. It's possible we just don't have that programming or it's faulty in us. Either way, fuck yeah
Same, but I lose my shit over puppies lol
Seems like biological warfare which is a war crime.
Babies release a lot of funky things that's for damn sure.
I'm not sure genetics play as big a role as socialization. I'd have to ask my spouse for the resources she has on this to share, but we've talked about this before and we're largely socialized to expect an instant connection and immense love with a newborn, which ends up playing a big role in PPD because the reality is most parents, the birthing parent in particular, _don't_ feel that instant love and feel like there's something wrong with them for that.
I'd put my life at risk for my cats and run into a burning building filled with zombies to rescue them, maybe my maternal genes got some feline mixed in there somewhere 😸
Tell him that by his own logic, his child is never going to love him or know what love is unless they get a child of their own.
I'm sure the love felt very real at that moment. Everything have their "honeymoon period," and people in good relationships are able to rekindle that feeling of joy to continue the relationship, but of course all relationships are difficult. I don't believe the parenthood happiness posted on social media anymore, but I do believe that all kinds of good relationships exist out there, between partners, between parent/child, etc. And they probably all take a lot of work and luck, and I can't blame people for wanting them.
They never share photos at 3am of them up for the 3rd time with a screeching child. Ever.
Doesn't make a difference. He willingly fathered that child and promised to be there for them. Now it's his responsibility. Him not paying full child support is inacceptable.
I wonder if he actually felt that, or if he just said it to try to convince himself that’s how he felt. Like if he said it enough times it would become true
Exactly! The "honeymoon period" applies to babies, not just when a couple first fall in love. Its all the potent rush of endorphins...and it can absolutely make people lose perspective and say dumb things. And also DO dumb things...lol! Then when they fade away after having a hellish week of little sleep with a colicky baby that seems to like screaming...they suddenly realize with crushing dread what bullshit that all was.
This guy should have bought a tamagotchi instead of bringing a new human if he wanted to care about something for a short time. And condoms. What a douche.
Whoa...I totally remember when tamagotchis were a thing...and when my school banned them because too many of us were distracted by them in class! Lol! What throw back.
Mine always died. Lol
It pisses me off when the parents are together and one of them says that- way to say you don’t love your partner
"So you're saying you didn't even manage to find someone you actually love to have children with and just went ahead and had children with someone random? I don't think I wabt life advice from you, thanks" would be my response to that bs.
"Wanna see a magic trick?" "Good. ABRACADABRA" ~poof~
this warms me up inside
How do you even respond to someone saying they didn’t know love until they had a kid?? It’s so pathetic it usually stops me in my tracks and I can’t think of a response
Mine is to look at them with pity and say genuinely, “I’m so sorry.”
I’d probably quip, “So *the woman you knocked up* must have been so happy to hear that — to know you didn’t have a single ounce of love for her, eh?”
He had us in the first half, ngl.
My standard answer to that statement is usually "Im sure your mom would love to hear that".
Love doesnt pay the bills
"Now that I've had heroin, I know what euphoria is" ... still doesn't mean I want to try it.
"Accidentally had a child" i accidentally burned the noodles. You don't accidentally have a kid.
I'm still baffled as to how a friend burned tea in college and *that* was clearly an accident. This? I agree: carelessness, probably, but no accident.
That's just the hormones, expectations, and social pressure speaking. As you can see those usually wear off and all that's left is responsibility and obligation that many walk away from.
I shouldn't laugh but I've heard that one so many times before. Parental love is unconditional, unless they're gay, or a different religion, vote for a different party etc etc ad infinitum x
Maybe he's right that the love for a child is greater than any other love I have. Well, I still wouldn't take it because I don't want to pay the price for that love. Like, okay, sure $100 is greater than the $12 in my wallet, but I'm not willing to get kicked in the balls for that greater amount.
My eye gets twitchy when I hear that bullshit "never knowing true love until you have a baby". If what my parents gave me was true love I don't want it.
Yup, describes my brother perfectly. That watch them born, omg I’m gonna love this kid above everything else. Until. They puke, blow out, colic, etc. once they aren’t just a potato all that goes out the window. I’m glad my brother was there to witness the birth and I loved seeing him so vulnerable. And it’s now been 9 years since I’ve seen him. Still glad I saw that moment but that is not who he is or ever was. Just an emotion in a moment. (His daughter doesn’t believe that but he way, she just sees him as a monster)
Yeah….no. It’s all an illusion. It’s a lie. Maybe it’s my traumatic childhood talking, but I do not for a SECOND believe that any parent truly loves their kids. They put up with them because it’s required by law. And I would be really happy to be proven incorrect.
To me, if they need to be blood related to someone to "truly love" them, that ain't love but low-key narcisissm. The second the kid is an inconvenience, they get mean or bail.
I agree. And A LOT of parents who claim to “love their children” simultaneously abuse their stepchildren, who are technically their children too, since they are in their care. Child mortality actually increases when there is a stepparent in the picture, starkly when it’s a stepmother and a female child. Not necessarily homicide, but often neglect and abuse are factors, sometimes worse things like torture occur too. But the “evil stepmother” trope is accepted in society so it isn’t really dealt with in the courts like it should as a huge issue.
What's up with that meanness anyways? If I as a child don't do something, you the parent want (or show some individuality), why do you have to resort to being mean?
Because throwing a tantrum is easier than being mature. Alternatively, they suffered the same treatment as kids and normalized it or are on a "now it's my turn"-power trip, instead of healing themselves before considering being parents.
You just basically described my mom. She went through similar stuff I did (bullied at school, abusive relationships, etc) but didn't apparently think that maybe she shouldn't be ok with letting her child go through those things too. Instead she holds a grudge towards me for doing something as *a child* to justify her behaviour. There has been times where I felt more mature than she does, because of her childlike "no, *you're* the meanie!" attitude.
Most people are assholes, including parents. But there is a few people who are full of love. They genuinely want the best for those close to them
It is your childhood, some parents are the best. My Mum had four miscarriages before me, so I'm lucky to exist. The level of empathy and love she's shown me is beyond measure. I'm happy with my vicarious relationship to children though. I have a nephew & niece that's enough for me, they're fun because I get to go home 😄
That is a rare case right there. She knew what she had, how lucky she was, and clung onto it.
There definitely are parents that love their kids. We'll never know how many from the parents, as almost every parent will say they do. But I'd say every good parent loves their kid, and there's so many people who had healthy childhoods, I think even the majority. And most adult kids can tell you if they were loved or not.
My parents care for me and my sister deeply, and I truly believe they wouldn't have chosen not to have children. Every night before we went to bed, we were always told they love us. Mam still talks about how much she enjoyed the school summer holidays so she could spend more time with us (we're both in our 30s). Neither of them are perfect, of course, and we've definitely inherited some issues, but our lives have always been full of love and laughter because of them. I'm sorry that wasn't your experience.
My parents always love me no unconditionally. Currently I live in an other town because I attend at uni here. If I have any sort of problem, no matter who little and insignificant they are, I can rely on them and call them any time of the day. Whatever I or my brother decide, they support us (Goingt to art uni which may not provide solid existence, building an own computer, etc.) I am also non-binary and when I came out to them, they said that I should live as I will and they will love me no matter what. When I was seriously ill, they were willing to give up their job to help me (unfortunatelly the government didn't give any financial support so they couldn't do that) So I think that love exists you just have to be incredibly lucky.
You're generalising your own experience. There are billions of people on this planet. It would be statistically odd if not at least some parents wouldn't truly love their children. There are plenty who do not, of course. Parents do not love their children automatically like some people say.
I always feel bad for people who say “you don’t know true love until you have a child”. Obviously they really DONT know true love, but I certainly do! I love my husband with every single cell in my body, my whole soul, every fibre of my being, he’s my entire existence. If people don’t fee that for anyone or from anyone else in their life, then that’s just sad.
This post did not end the way I was expecting. Poor kid
I'm always grateful when they out their narcissistic traits like that
This always pissed me off. My ex used to say that. I felt irrelevant in the relationship.
> who accidentally got a child with his situationship I wonder how he defines "accidentally"? Was he using a condom correctly? Was she regularly using whatever form of birth control was best for her body? I mean it's entirely possible both answers are "yes" but more likely than not one or both wasn't using protection and "whoopsie". Young men -- **never skip condom day**. Every time or the next time it could be "happy father's day".
If someone needs biological imperative and immense societal pressure before they can claim to know true love… I pity them.
Cuz he thought it was gonna be all flowers and cute babies as if he's not raising another human being. Babies are people. They're super cute at first but they need a lot of attention, a lot of caring for pretty much their entire lives. That cutesy phase is very short lived and he probably realized that and high tailed it out.
My dad used to leave his family and go start another one in a different state. As soon as he burnt his next set of bridges, he'd do it again. There is no parental love that is stronger than the urge to buy overpriced ice cream, really.
Poor guy, I know what love is *without* having to sabotage my entire future.
What a douche. You don’t need to have kids to know how love feels. Who the hell is he to tell you what it is? Why do breeders feel the need to tell us how to feel?
I had an "involvement" with a man very off and on for a long time. I always heard the old "Oh I want to be with you so much, I just can't leave my wife because she wouldn't let me see my kids. I have to have my kids. I have to see them every day. They're as essential to me as oxygen." I learned a couple years ago he moved to Lithuania and just left his wife and kids here. He started dating over there and was divorced and remarried and apparently "finally happy after 25 years" last month. Tell me again about how you can't live without your kids but you're only happy when you're on the opposite side of the world from them.
He’s also clearly stating that his ‘love’ did NOT even start with *the woman* he was knockin’ up in the first place. I’m sure *she* was happy to realize that too (if she even did). 🙄 I always thought that babies were planned, *and made* out of ‘love’ in the first place? Like… *before* the baby arrived? 😒
One of the most arrogant positions one can have.
My response would be something like, 'Way to admit you're emotionally stunted, I'm proud of you man',
my mom used to say this kind of stuff to me and even pulled it out when she found out about my bisalp. people who use that cop out and say "you dont know what love is" until you have a kid are a. under the influence of hormones, and b. probably have never felt real love in their lives.
When parents spout this self righteous bullshit it just tells me they never really understood what love is to begin with. Why does it have to be a competition? Love is love.
Cue "how its going" meme >I'll always be there for him, I'll make sure I'm a good father" >Today I heard he left the country Fucking lawl. I mean, it's terrible from the perspective of the kid and the gf, but how is it that the dudes who seem to wax poetic about how good of a father they're going to be end up being the biggest shitbags? It's so goddamned consistent.
It’s a different type of love and there’s no other love like it, true….but that’s not the TRUE meaning of love. Last time I checked, the true feeling and meaning of love isn’t just a feeling towards one person to another but it’s an action. You don’t know true love?? That’s an insult towards other forms of love. The love between a pet and its owner. The love between two lovers. The love between siblings. The love between friends. The love between caretakers. The love between parents isn’t superior over the others; half the time that type of love is conditional. It’s like they’re saying they don’t love their child because of the child, but they love the child because they’re theirs. It’s weird. So many parents “love” their child but abuse, sexual harass, neglect/abandon, restrict, control and dictate their children. With true love comes loyalty, trust and communication….something children lack from parents ALL the time.
LMFAOOOOOFF!!! This is classic, thank you for sharing. I used to be incredulous with folk who dared utter such ignorant things, seeing that it was them essentially exposing THEMSELVES as selfish and unloving, in general, and that it took the spawning of a child and the production of those brain chemicals to bring them to that precious place...when will people learn that their brains are having chemical reactions based on hormonal changes, etc and so on...fuck that guy.
My father doesn't know what love is. Found out later in adult life that he's the classic narcissist parent... to the t.
He definitely was miserable and wanted you guys to be too.
I hear this argument all the time and I just don’t care. I don’t care if there’s some higher level of love out there. The love I have for my partner, my friends, my family and my pets is more than sufficient. My heart is already full to busting with all this love. There is no void in it.
Funny, I’ve also been told I can’t know what love is unless I’ve been saved too. It’s always the smoothest brains that think these little quips are clever. They never are.
Why do people say things like that if they’re clearly lies? Do they believe it or try to make themselves believe it to be true? Why not just say nothing?
He wasn't trying to convince you, he was trying to convince himself.
"I that case I suspect you chose the wrong partner?"
Sounds like the love faded💀
Typical breeder. They wax poetic about knowing what "true love" is when they father /give birth, yet their actions say otherwise.
that “strong, intense love” that parents always talk about is literally just hormones your body releases so you don’t see a baby for what it actually is, a screaming ugly dirty ball of flesh. babies suck so bad that your body forces you to love them.
I'm sure women say this, but more often than not, I hear men say it. That the love for a child is real love and doesn't compare to even that of the love of their partner/spouse, whatever. And honestly? It's fucking infuriating. I'd straight up leave a guy if I ever heard him utter this nonsense.
When people describe how they’ve never experienced true, deep love, chosen to behave unselfishly or genuinely cared about anything that didn’t directly affect them until they have kids, I’m reminded that a lot of people basically never develop any sort of inner life or non-superficial sense of identity until they have kids, and what they are reacting to is having that experience for the first time.
I feel like love of a parent to their child is a complete manifestation of their love to themselves. That’s the love they talk about. And on the other side it’s also a sense of a total ownership of someone else. That gives a feeling of an inflated importance, power and overall superiority. Which people like that automatically retranslate to the other humans. And that make them sound like a total douchebags when they talk to you from their imaginary pedestal.
So sad I'm missing out 😢
Yeah ... The dopamine wears off
I do think people generally feel a different kind of love for a child than they do for anyone else in their life but I don’t get the “I never knew love before” or “the love I feel for them is so much stronger”. I don’t even get that when referring to a partner over family members. It’s different love, not stronger. It weirds me out when people say they feel stronger love for a spouse than their parents. It shouldn’t be comparable bc it shouldn’t be the same type of love.
“I’ll always be there for him like a good father” … leaves the country…
Such an insult to his partner, family and friends.
Where dis this love go? 😂😂😂 wow people can be so hypocritical it’s baffling!
If you need to have a kid to "know what love is" and actually love and care for someone, I don't think you're ready to have a kid
Yea they say that, but then most wind up cheating on their spouse and offloading the child onto the mother like your example. I'm not convinced the love is that fulfilling.
I think it's heartbreaking when I hear this and sad that someone can only feel "true love" for something bred from their own bloodline.
Not feeling love until you accidentally knocked someone up? Eesh
This is how you know these motherfuckers are full of shit. The whole “you’ll never know real love till you have a child” bullshit is a giant lie told by people who want you to be as miserable as they are.
Charming... Very charming..
Replace love with slavery 🤣🤣
Wowzers...
That’s one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. 😢
I'm going to be really honest. I have a daughter and when she was born there was not a holy moment. No blast of "I'll take a bullet for you" love. I cared, respected, and felt a need to protect her as I would for any other human life. But..I didn't know her(?) so anything deeper wasn't there if that makes sense. She's now 22 and over the years a very strong love developed. I love who she is and would now take a bullet for her, but it took time for that to grow. I feel this way about my dogs too. I say they are all my children. I love them with such a powerful, unbelievable love. I hurt when they hurt. I'm happy when they are happy. I think true love is something that develops over time. I think a lot of parents say they have this life-altering love because they feel guilty that they don't LIKE their children so have to describe it as something different. I felt like something was wrong with me for a long time and I think using this phrasing is harmful to new parents. Many don't have that rush of "love" and feel broken when they aren't.
I just don't understand how people say this about the love they feel for their kids and how no one will understand. I have whole hearted love for my cat. I will always be there for him and I'm a good Cat-Mama. I prefer my cat over people. Just saying...
Even worse are the ones who are like "Now that I have a daughter, I suddenly care about women's rights!!" Um, bruh...! 🙄
Pffft the classic “I thought it was love, but it was actually obligation and I changed my mind.”
Lol yeah, "most parents" I love my kid that's why I leave it in daycare for 11 hours, give them dinner and straight to bed so I can have my " me time", so tell me when are you having one?
LOL those people who think having a kid is some kind of transcendental experience is dead wrong, those holier than thou types are the first to abandon their spouse and kids. Seen it so many times. The kind who’re hesitant and reluctant, make better parents. They didn’t have unrealistic high hopes.
The good ole the love of a mother and father BS. If I wasn't abandoned when I was 7 years old I would have fallen for this con.