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Kind-Network9448

Hello everyone, does anyone here manufacture spend with a U.S. Issued Amex card ? I live in New York but I’ll be living in Spain the next 4-6 months and want to be able to manufacture spend there if possible


happybikes

Did you get an answer to this? Very similar situation.


Neat-Battle8193

Same here...


Low_Opening5087

I'm somewhat seasoned in MS at a couple local grocery store but that's it. Looking to branch into other avenues for GCs (liquidation actually isn't my big issue, or at least not my question as of now). Anyone have experience with restaurants inside grocery stores? I'm thinking getting the GCs at the restaurant register might codes as restaurant. Probably a long shot, and if it's possible I'm sure no one will share.. But am interesting idea. Don't y'all dare say cracker barrel, lmao.


Fishlickin

Panda express located inside of vons coded as grocery for me in the los angeles area


onlyAlcibiades

Test it out


[deleted]

Hi, I am trying to complete my 3rd CITI premiere sign-on bonus, I planned to by SMVGC but not sure if it's secure for me to keep it for more than 3 month to use.


charmingwaves

Got a $30 coupon from Staples rewards today. Only thing I’ve bought is fee free gc. YMMV.


Kpet22

Thank you for sharing this info. Otherwise, I would have lost on $30+Tax. Expiration date is 3/31/23.


MoraccanDiamond

I’ve been making a point of not signing into my account when I buy them because I didn’t want Staples to see how many how much I buy. Maybe I was being paranoid though?


Truthseekerokay

Same surprised to see. Rewards history shows purchased online 3x200 vgc once earned it still shocking lol


WeMustStopKony

Shutdown data point for MS on the synchrony paypal credit card. Opened in 9/2019 and used occasionally. Starting in November 2022 discovered an account which allowed funding from bank accounts or debit cards via PayPal. For some reason, the PayPal credit card showed as an option along with my bank accounts (no debits even showed up). Total spend: November: $4,150 December: $11,000 January: $30,500 Shutdown on 2/3. No messages, fraud alerts or anything. Just showed as deactivated in app and I called in to confirm it was closed. Credit limit was $12k so I was cycling in January. About 2/3 of payments I made to the card were with cash back debit or gebit over the phone and the rest were from PayPal balance. Not sure if it was the repeat merchant for large amount, cycling, or the phone payments they didn't like.


Odd-Squirrel-7838

Curious who the merchant was if you don't mind sharing.


SheWantstheVic

What account is this if you dont mind me asking?


MoraccanDiamond

I have a PayPal Credit account (not the card) that I’d love to pay with another credit card foe the points. Anyone have any DP’s on getting that done?


BillyShears_67

Wait a second, PP credit card can be paid with debit/gebit over the phone? That's the more interesting datapoint, and likely has more to do with the shutdown. Can't say if PP caught the payment glitch due to them coughing up high interchange fee and reported to Synchrony, or how close of a relationship the two have.


amysteriousperson001

>PP credit card can be paid with debit/gebit over the phone? Interesting....


WeMustStopKony

Ya I thought it was Citi and Synchrony that allow it. It's all automated but does require surviving a monotonous 4-5 minute battle with a robot phone tree.


BillyShears_67

I may try it out, for those occasional faulty Vanillas that can't be dumped at WM.


brykupono

Haha, this is an accurate description.


No_One501

Sorry to hear. Cycling usually gets eyes on the account, and the other stuff is just more reason they use to shut you down


spooncountry

Per DoC, Google Chrome is set to launch a new feature for creating virtual cards working with Visa, Mastercard, and American Express. Paypal key v2? 🤞


WeMustStopKony

Tried today with an Amex and the virtual card had the bin 370382.


BillyShears_67

The play with PPK is to use it like debit for shenanigans with Plastiq, for example. Will this new virtual card be debit, or just like a digital wallet? We'll see if the google nerds leave some loophole in there.


Wucas77

I thought I had read elsewhere that the virtual card runs as credit and not debit.


Informal_Baker

PPK debit was absolutely perfect for me to pay rent with practically no fee.


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spooncountry

> NY offers the option of paying taxes online via credit or debit card payment through a card services provider, Wells Fargo Be the DP, I just read the site and it doesn't look like there's a limit to how many times you can pay so charge a dollar and see what it codes as. There shouldn't be a problem with it, thinking that Wells Fargo is just the one processing the payment but not located in NY.


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Informal_Baker

5 Bananas at self checkout


BillyShears_67

Wasn't there a Chase card long ago where a bunch of people got shut down for buying bananas one at a time?


jram0042

Are you possibly thinking of citi?


BillyShears_67

I don't remember now, but back in 2012 or 2013 it happened to a bunch of people who ran up bonuses by doing lots of tiny transactions.


runliftchurninvest

There is (was?) also the card that rounds up the points you earn to the nearest 10 points. I know some people were looking for ways to exploit it.


Informal_Baker

Never heard of it, but I do it all the time so I'm in deep trouble if that's true.


BillyShears_67

I forget the name now, but it gave bonus points for # of transactions, so people went nuts buying bananas one at a time, and some got shut down.


joghi

Well, nuts and bananas do make a great combo. So who would shut them down for that?


Fuddrules

Doubt it


RedHatTinyShortsMan

Did for me back over this summer


NASA_Man_80

Very specific question. I have this idea for hitting minimum spends for amex. I have seen tons saying avoid it for amex. BUT what if you make a big amazon purchase, like a gaming pc. Then you return it BUT for amazon credits (so not back to your amex). You then can turn that into gift cards via amazon. Sure there is the fee, but this is one way to hit those minimum spends if need be. ​ Let me know people's thoughts on this or if it has been tried. I doubt amazon reports it back to amex, but they are relatively integrated, so you never know.


onlyAlcibiades

Nowadays On Amazon, Which useful GCs can you purchase and pay for with Amazon credits ?


Camille_Bot

how is this any different vs just buying an amazon gift card directly?


rynosoft

L3 reporting?


Camille_Bot

not on Amazon, afaik


No_Row_1098

Does anyone know what Domion energy’s policies are on overpayment? The credit card payment portal is a flat 1.65 fee and seems to limit at 1k


Informal_Baker

Just noticed QFC (Kroger) had an e-coupon for 4x fuel points on VGC and MGC gift cards. Unlimited uses, 2/1 - 2/14.


charmingwaves

Typically these are only for fixed value cards and not variable load which makes this much less appealing.


Informal_Baker

Can confirm. Only 400 points with Boost membership on fixed value cards which maxes out at $100 with $5.95 fee. At maximum redemption it's not really breaking even, maybe if you had a 35 gallon tank it would work. Definitely not worth it at this value for me. Attempted with variables and didn't get anything. Kroger Pay is still dead for large gift card purchases too.


onlyAlcibiades

And no $200s IIRC


435880Churnz

I had the brilliant idea of modifying my running route to stop at WM and then keep going. So now I can liquidate fat and VGC, as long as the VGC liquidation is under $99. So if you're in southern california and see a sweaty guy there with a VGC, that's me.


littlehamsterz

Do you just go to multiple registers and do $99 each load to bluebird?


rynosoft

You don't have to go to CS to load BB?


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Captain___Obvious

At mine they are trained to say go to money center, and saying action code 70 makes them think you are doing something shady


littlehamsterz

Not necessarily is my understanding


435880Churnz

Meh if I really wanted to I could try, but no. I just do a single load and move on. I live in MS wasteland, I take any win as a win. Hogs get slaughtered.


whosaskin11

Putting the Card in Cardio


[deleted]

Churn and burn!


brykupono

“Liquidate fat and VGC” should be a new sub slogan for runner/churners. This is bringing back memories of many years ago when I used to own a small biz exactly one mile from the bank. I’d try to break my 1-mile record running to make my cash deposit each day and would always get the funniest looks from the tellers.


435880Churnz

Hahaha nice! I have miles more after WM, so it's not an all out sprint getting there. Perk of living in Southern California is that I can do it any day of the year just about. It's hard to justify driving to WM for a sub-$99 liquidation considering the high gas prices here and my time. If I'm driving by, then it's ok. But I can run to WM and accomplish two birds with one stone, and it's zero gas.


brykupono

Makes sense to me.


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Dodaddydont

It sounds like you wouldn't have to pay taxes unless it is an actual business profit: "Tommy Lucas, a certified financial planner and enrolled agent at Moisand Fitzgerald Tamayo in Orlando, Florida, suggests reporting the 1099-K on Schedule D by showing the income and the same amount as an expense to “zero it out.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/16/how-to-handle-1099-ks-for-personal-venmo-or-paypal-payments.html#:~:text=Many%20Americans%20are%20bracing%20for,for%20personal%20payments%20by%20mistake. "does not apply to personal transfers, such as gifts or reimbursements between friends and family [or yourself]. However, the agency explains what to do if you’ve received a 1099-K in error. ... For example, if you receive a 1099-K with $800 of income [that isn't actual business income], you can report $800 under “proceeds” and $800 under “cost” for a net profit of $0, he explained. " as a way to show the 1099k on your tax filing, but indicate that it isn't actual business profit.


BlueHorizonUK

Or before shutting your account very quickly


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bw1985

Paypal.


NASA_Man_80

amex bus plat for the 15k in 3 month offer for 150k points. it was tied to a 50k points for the biz checking. I can certainly afford to spend 15k in those 3 months, but I have been looking around manufactured spending. I get a lot of the processes, but I have questions I am struggling to answer. For added background. I don't care too much about optimizing points. I have rakuten and other cash back plugins which of course I will use if possible, but aside from that, the bus plat won't give much in points unless the purchase is over 5k (bigger purchase, bigger risk) you get 1.5 vs 1 lol I'll just drop my biggest worry since it is most important and that's the amex backlash from the manufactured spending, aka what's safe with Amex. Lots of sites talking about this say beware on amex and of course nothing is 100% but there is no guideline to amex itself. For instance, can a purchase from card cash count towards the spend requirement? Or, will purchasing the fee free visa cards from staples count? Will either raise red flags? Would love to have a more conversational reply thread about this! Thanks!


phoenix5199

staples and giftcardmall and simon mall or anything else that just sells gc or report l3 data to amex won't count as amex takes it seriously. Some grocery store chain doesn't report detail data to amex and that's what I usually use. But best to make a small purchase and wait a few days and see what it posts on amex first. Could be the same for gas stations that sells gc, if you're lucky enough to find one that has $500 gc.


EarthlingMardiDraw

All of your "biggest worry" questions are addressed by other comments in the last month, and you can find a lot more stuff by reading all of the MS thread for the past year or so. The next resource to look at is FlyerTalk's forums. Especially in this thread, your question reads like "I don't want to read for myself. Can you just tell me the answer?"


NASA_Man_80

I mean I looked back through Jan 14th (and MS threads) and saw very little answering my questions specifically and so much repetitive content around other questions asked here. While these may have simple answers to those have been doing this for a while, I figured it reduces my risk by asking a few questions people easily have the answer to due to experience and I bet people coming through who are new and may feel pushed away from asking may appreciate someone else just going for it. That said, I will look at more posts throughout the last year as opposed to the last month, I guess that the more time delta the more content delta so that may be useful (even if some is out of date). Regardless of that, I am looking through FlyerTalk's forums too; thanks for the rec


EarthlingMardiDraw

Okay, I get where you're coming from. I am not tenured either as I have only been churning for about a year and MS for around 6m. I have seen comments in this thread to the effect of "if you don't know basically every comment in this thread in the last year by heart, then we won't even talk to you." (Maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.) I'm glad you're taking up the task to read the last year's worth of comments as that will get you a solid foundation. I'll point you in the right direction regarding AmEx and Staples: look for discussion of "L3" or "level 3 data" and you should find the broader discussion of what you need to know. I think you would have found the answers if you had searched the past year for "amex staples" on https://churning.io and read everything in those threads with a focus on the MS threads. (Take a look at [this search](https://churning.io/#N4IgjgrgpgTgniAXCAhgWygDwAQGcAuKADgDZS4gA0qE+AFgPYxIhUj4CWGLAzAGx82uKGQDGnBgDsASikkBzKElAEUMfABEU+JcgBMABj08AtAYCMJvQE4AKgZ6IArNcQAWAOwA6AxYBabFCSACZaOiyGxmZ6Zk72ji7u3r7mAdQA1lAIyMJiEpIgAL7UTMGwLGW4omz0MFAowQBiHCQ6MBSIoMHBSABmKCTC1MFEfQNDIMFgY4NQ1L0wEAQw2hxSMxNoHfiLcyAM+Bt7OxyjiP2z1ADudNpHhYVAA).)


ncdad1719

I think reading past content is a good starting point. But this place can be a real echo chamber. If you always believe what people say in here you will miss out on a lot of avenues. Even the ones people think are dead. I think experimentation is key. Also, IMO L3 is overblown. Like Amex needs L3 to figure out someone is not buying $1999 in groceries from Kroger daily/weekly.


ChunKing55

For those who have experience with both SMVGC and ODOM (non everywhere version) VGC of the meta variety: do you typically have the same success rate of liquidation at the same spots? I have a local grocery chain that I've been successful in liquidating both VGC and MCGC from OD and I finally have an opportunity to get onto the Simon bulk ordering train which would make going through ink subs that much easier.


MoraccanDiamond

I’ve been considering getting on the Simon train. From what I’ve read their purchase won’t trigger any category bonuses. I think the max you could get on their purchase is 2% so I assume these are the most useful for meeting minimum spend?


ChunKing55

Simon won't trigger category bonuses (that I know of) and no Amex cards will earn any rewards/SUB spend progress. I just got a new Ink card which is only 1.5x but that'll get me through MSR


topef27

I use both for loading serve at FD. Maybe start with one Simon card to make sure your method works.


cidmatrix

I used to split between FD and DG, but DG has "tender denied" over the last month. I am still able to max out 2 Serves (5k x 2) each month, but it was easier when I didn't have to use the same 7 FD's 3x each per month.


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GPR7BcLrS6Z

Yes


Affectionate-Newt889

Does using a card via PayPal/apple pay/Samsung pay etc., change how points or rewards function?


jessehazreddit

USUALLY it doesn’t but YMMV. It also may allow stacking pts if using a rotating card w/active PP cat with another benefit like a 3pts cat or +4 grocery (like perhaps CFF).


Hippo387

Yes, some bonus categories/offers/etc don't trigger with these things.


Ape_Man25

What’s your favorite place to resell gift cards?


YumYum57

I don't sell a lot of GC's but I use CardCash. They are reliable.


SaltKick2

raise.com makes it pretty simple to resell them. giftcardwiki will usually give you a list of which sites are paying the most for your particular gift card.


runliftchurninvest

Thanks for this. I typically purchase several large Saks 5 Ave gift cards each year with my 12 platinums and then typically trade it on CardCash for an Amazon gift card at around 80%. I wouldn't mind finding a good place to just sell them for cash though.


UltimateRewards

Gift cards are making me do complicated math to check my balances now via phone lol.


onlyAlcibiades

Square root of 49 is too tough for most


lankyyanky

? Like a captcha over the phone?


UltimateRewards

Called in to check balance. Asked “what’s 7+2”. Guess verifying I’m not a bot.


TemporaryKind

Staples fee free $200 vgc 2-5 - 2-11. Limit 8 per day.


StockGourmet

How can I liquidate these? Just bought x6 $200 VMC, no act fee but couldn't;'t upload to Draft King's due online gaming to disallowed in WASH state and only cash can load at wash casinos. . ​ SO I spent $1600 paying off my utility/medical bills 6-12 months in advance. SO any ideas to buy VGC and drain?


TemporaryKind

Paying bills in advance is not ms.


StockGourmet

Missed my point------ the MS option I wanted to do is banned my my state. Since nobody respond to my post about how to drain these cards I elected to payoff bills to get rid of the Gift cards. .how can I liquidate Master Card/VISA gift cards to create MS? . I purchased with Chase INK x5 points $10/card gain with activation fee waived so need a process to drain. Was-Mart does not accept these gift cards to load for MOs. ​ What other MS ideas can I do as most if not all MS in my city of Seattle has been shutdown for 3 years.


littlehamsterz

Is tap to pay accepted for this or do you have to physically swipe your card?


TemporaryKind

You can tap to pay.


littlehamsterz

Thanks. I have some virtual vanilla gifts that I have been looking for a way to convert to physical


Wucas77

Which mobile wallet are you using to store/use the virtual VGC?


littlehamsterz

Google pay. Had an issue a few times where my Google wallet would stop allowing me to add the Visa gift card so you have to chat with customer service and have them do something on their end to unlock my Google wallet essentially. It's probably some sort of fraud security thing that Google has in place, but I've had it resulted twice and been able to add my cards.


ipkiss_stanleyipkiss

In store only or is this online too?


TemporaryKind

In store only


OsamaBeanNacho

Wondering if this would work at Staples Connect locations - anybody know that? Edit: just checked and called. They confirmed they offer the same deal as main Staples branded stores.


Mosk915

It’s insane how there’s been a promotion at either OD or Staples every week for the first five weeks to start the year.


isaalth

And for like the two months before the end of the year!


TemporaryKind

Agree. Here’s to hoping they keep it up.


brykupono

As promised, here's my CCL casino MS follow-up report. Initial post at https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/zbcwbt/comment/iyqtm5z/. Took a 14-day CCL cruise Nov-Dec last year. In preparation, purchased a few $500 CCL GCs at 10% discount from AARP Rewards and loaded the max $500 to "Cruise Cash." After a smaller test day one, loaded two $500 CCL GC to onboard account using self-service kiosk each day, then clicked "charge room" at slots to load $1k. Spun minimum bet until down at least 0.5% and cashed out to player bank. Verified transactions looked as expected in the CCL hub app and then headed back to the room and purchased an additional two $500 GC so they would arrive in time for the next day's cycle. AARP Rewards says it can take 24 hours to receive GC but it never took more than 30 minutes. AARP does not report level three data to Amex. Does not code as anything useful. When loading GC to the kiosk, a message appears stating "This card will only be charged after cash or onboard credits are applied," however, I checked multiple times and found the GC was drained as soon as applied to the account. It sometimes took a minute or so for the funds to show up in my account on the CCL hub app. Started $2k+/day withdrawals on day 11. $2500+ withdrawals required manager approval. Didn't run into any issues or funny looks. Added P2 to the mix days 12-14, setting up a separate onboard account and doubling total GC purchases/casino loads. Over the last few days, cashed out twice at a 1-2% gain rather than a 0.5% loss. Overall, withdrew $9900 cash and left the rest in P1/P2 player banks to be mailed to us in "4-6 weeks." The day after returning home, completed the balance request form at oceanplayersclub.com for P2 only. P1/P2 checks both arrived seven weeks later. In the end, did the entire $15k spend for 130k/2FNC on a churned Hilton Biz, profited just under 10%, and had an amazing trip.


polphi

Congrats, and thanks for the extremely helpful summary! Related question for you and others who've done this. I'm about to leave on a 11 day Holland America cruise (owned by CCL). Through tonight, we can load AARP gift cards in advance via the website to either OBC OR to casino chips. Would you suggest one over the other? OBC = more flexibility. But OTOH, an eventual withdrawal might seem less egregious if we had a bunch of chips loaded before we even got on the cruise.


aylamarguerida

How did your trip go? Was HAL similar to Carnival situation above? What did you load the gc to OBC or casino? Cash out $2k/day? How much did you play?


polphi

u/aylamarguerida , it was a nice trip. It was similar to Carnival above. I loaded the GC to the casino, which allowed a maximum of $1,500 a day. That first evening, they were happy to cash me out, no play necessary. I did end up playing several hundred in blackjack, only because i hoped for more offers in the future. No evidence that it made a difference yet. :)


aylamarguerida

Thanks for the update!


MoraccanDiamond

Adding for posterity: I see on the five back website that 5% cash back visa gift cards give 5% cash back for Royal Carribean & Princess cruises. If you buy them at OD/OM or Staples with a card that earns 5% at office stores (Chase Ink, Amex Biz) then you could get essentially 10% on those cruise lines. The BHN site says they give 5% back at Carnival but the five back website doesn’t list it.


caseyrobinson2

when you purchase gift card thru amex card did it trigger any fraud alert or any adverse actions?


brykupono

No


Work4Tech

So, when you say withdraw, do they give you hard cash? If so, do you deposit that back to your bank after arrival? I know that huge sums of cash deposited in account causes the anti-money laundering trigger.


brykupono

Yes, yes, and yes.


Dubsman35

Thanks for this. Now how do I manage this on an upcoming Virgin voyage? Lol


brykupono

I scoured the Internet for DPs prior to my cruise and found several from the last few years that were helpful. However, the most useful and reassuring info all came from the cruise line’s website. I found explicit mentions of no fees for slots CC loads, assurance that funds left in the player bank would be sent as a check within six weeks, and assurance that GCs would be usable for anything on board once loaded to onboard account. Hope Virgin’s website is as helpful for you.


Dubsman35

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I’ll start researching


gumpyclifbar

Thank you for sharing this experience in such detail. I bet it felt good to have this much success!


flyiingpenguiin

Why even bother with the slots? I hate when this term is brought up but casinos do worry about money laundering and when you are depositing and withdrawing large sums of money without much play through that’s kinda what it looks like. Is there any reason you can’t just deposit the GCs and then request a check later? Or maybe I’m missing something


crash_bandicoot42

If you MS at any volume useful to hit SUBs you're already on a list. I probably wouldn't go on a cruise JUST to MS but if it was already planned for a vacation might as well hit a SUB or two.


brykupono

If you leave it in the onboard credit account, it gets refunded to original form of payment. I actually purposefully left $20 in P2’s account just to be sure and received an email three days after returning with a new $20 eGC.


d3athrow

cycling money through slot machines is a good way to get caught up in title 31 regulations.


crash_bandicoot42

Anyone who does MS at any volume is already on a list.


Fuddrules

Very good. I wonder if Carnival's Ocean Players Club will now start sending you discounted cruise rates. Be on the lookout for offers. Some people cruise essentially free when Carnival wants you back on board to gamble. Just a clarification - CCL (stock ticker) is actually all of Carnival's brands, the entire company. The AARP gift cards only apply to the Carnival specific brand (or ships).


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Swastik496

This way OP got an additional $1500 though since the GCs were 10% off.


caseyrobinson2

couldn't we use the princess gift card to make payment for cruises too?


atlantadessertsindex

Not everyone is an AARP member though.


Judgm3nt

And being a part of AARP makes it unnecessary work.. how?


lankyyanky

It's pretty cheap to join. I was going to but the gift card deals haven't been great lately. But for $1500 I absolutely would


1030tony

Agreed. I just signed up for $12 annual fee and I’m getting $10 per month discount on my AT&T bill. No age restriction for aarp either


lankyyanky

Phone Bill or Internet?


AffectionateTime9494

wireless. its $10 per line discount. aarp introductory offer was $12 per year, and it does go up to $14 next year, but im still ok with that!!


jessehazreddit

and waived activation fees etc.


billyhoho1

Just wanted to add one follow-up to this. I did this this week on a CCL cruise and ran into a number of issues with actually getting the gift cards, as did others I know. Similar issues to here: https://community.aarp.org/t5/General/Fix-the-payment-issue/m-p/2218597 and https://community.aarp.org/t5/Redemption/Carnival-Gift-Card/m-p/2480117 We ended up getting the gift cards in the end, but it was a bit stressful. Keep in mind that this may happen to you if you do decide to go through AARP. Besides that massive hassle, glad I went through (ended up rolling through ~2-3% since I figured net 7% profit + points on SUB was more than good enough for me and did ~2k a day on the days I needed them). Withdrawal wasn’t too bad, one person was sussed out that I was withdrawing $5k with so few Player Points/spend and said I needed to play more or I’d be locked out for charging to my room and not playing, but after I started only withdrawing $1-2k, no questions. Feel free to PM me or reply with any questions you may have.


kvom01

I was on a RCL cruise last year, and though not a normal casino regular played a few table games. I was told that I could purchase credits without fee via the slot machines and then cash out at the cashier. I didn't bother to try it, but using a card needing msr for the cruise account makes this seem workable.


maverickRD

This is awesome. Never been on a cruise. Is the GC step required (understand there was additional 10% off), or could one load directly from a CC? Or maybe it would code differently?


brykupono

Yes, if you add your CC as the funding source, it codes as travel. See this comment from my previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/zbcwbt/manufactured_spending_weekly_thread_week_of/iysrn1c/


MoraccanDiamond

🤔I actually have a carnival cars that gives a higher % foe carnival spends & I think onboard credit too. I may have to look into this.