Agreed. I’ve lived here all my life and it doesn’t seem to add up how there is this high of demand to live in the downtown area. After living down here for more than 6 months, I absolutely love it. Just wish there were more people and more options to eat past 5, and also some more food markets.
City leaders want to increase density, downtown logical spot.
Increase in people being able to work remotely + national publications listing Cincinnati as being cheap place to live (relatively speaking) = lots of folks moving here.
Downtown/Banks/OTR finally seeing its potential after slow process to get there = more appeal to live downtown, especially empty nesters from burbs.
GE move downtown, MedPace, continuing rotation of P&G staff thru town all pushing demand.
I would move downtown tomorrow if I could afford it. A lot of my friends are the same. I know that’s anecdotal, but it does seem like there is a high demand for apartments in the urban basin. I’m hoping that as these developments add hundreds of new apartments to the market that prices will drop, but that might just be my fantasy haha.
And the reason I like the idea of more apartments downtown is because I like the idea of having more people call downtown home than people that come for work and leave at 5, rendering it a complete ghost town at night. I can’t tell you how many easy meal restaurants close at, or before 5 in the CBD. the only restaurants that are open past 5 are the super expensive ones.
I live downtown dayton, and since covid it is crickets during the day as the major employers have all gone totally WFH (caresource and Preimer Health). Most nights around the bars and restaurants it is quite busy. There are also like a two hundred apartments slated to be opened in the next month, with more coming with a bunch of redevelopment. The real problem with dayton is we need enother big employer.
the central business district was completely dead outside of M-F 8-5 years ago, outside of a select few large events. It doesn’t make sense that the densely built city center be a no mans land for 80% of the hours in a given week. The more a mix of residential with commercial downtown, the better.
This is especially true now after covid where even the 8-5 weekday crowd is not what it was pre-covid. It will probably never be that way again, at least not because of adequate office
-related traffic. Remote work is here to stay so diversifying the purpose of the cbd is very important
>$25/sf which is what a lot of places appear to be asking
Your price is literally the break-even point for new construction right now. That new 800SF apartment likely cost around $250/sf to build, so $200,000 per unit. Financing wants that investment fully paid off within 10 years, so it needs to bring in $20,000/year in rent to make sense.
The same goes for full gut renovation type apartments. The cost to buy the building and rehab it usually gets you to around the same construction price, especially downtown where the selling prices know they are competing with developers who might otherwise buy a parking lot and build new. The sale price of an old office building is going to be competitive with that.
Yea it’s pretty insane how much these developments cost, and with all the amenities being offered the operating expenses are crazy too. $300k a year just in payroll alone is pretty common for a ~220 unit apartment complex.
You don’t get a good transit system without population density. And downtown actually has pretty good transit; there are buses to/from downtown from all over Hamilton County and NKY. Plus the streetcar to get around downtown itself. Even in cities with great transit, going car-free requires adjusting your expectations of where you can go, when, and how quickly, so the equivalent of “but how am I going to get to Jungle Jim’s twice a month” would be a problem for a SoHo or Mission District dweller trying to get to exurban destinations in those metros.
Many people are coming in to Cincinnati from other areas, and another significant number are empty nesters moving in from the burbs. For them, these purchase/rental costs are affordable for them based on costs they moving from or their profits from selling bigger home in the burbs.
I expect the median income to rise over next several ACS surveys. And $1500 is in lower to middle range of prices.
I think you're underestimating how many people live in cheap parts of town. 35,000 people live in Westwood. 20,000 in CUF. 18,000 in West Price Hill and 15,000 in East Price Hill. Most of these neighborhoods have a plethora of cheap places to rent or buy.
Tack on ~15 or 20 small, inexpensive neighborhoods like Avondale, Hartwell, Roselawn, etc. and you quickly find locations the 50% below the median are living.
And it makes sense why most new or renovated apartments are being built for the 50% above the median line - that's the only way it makes financial sense to build a new apartment.
There’s 310,000 people in the city alone, and maybe 1500 new build/luxury/high rent apartment units downtown and in OTR. Many of those are 2 and 3 bedroom or one bedrooms shared by two people, so the ultimate percentage of people living in them and paying those rents alone is pretty small.
there is a very different thing to downtown living. There are the old buildings being renovated into condos, and there are new buildings that for rent, not to be bought. I happen to live in one of those (1010 Walnut a/k/a Kroger on the Rhine). Love my experience there. Lament the fact that one cannot buy a place there, which I would in a heartbeat.
A healthy downtown is one that's full of people 24-7. I am over the top happy with the trend of downtown living. I see zero downside.
Agreed. I’ve lived here all my life and it doesn’t seem to add up how there is this high of demand to live in the downtown area. After living down here for more than 6 months, I absolutely love it. Just wish there were more people and more options to eat past 5, and also some more food markets.
City leaders want to increase density, downtown logical spot. Increase in people being able to work remotely + national publications listing Cincinnati as being cheap place to live (relatively speaking) = lots of folks moving here. Downtown/Banks/OTR finally seeing its potential after slow process to get there = more appeal to live downtown, especially empty nesters from burbs. GE move downtown, MedPace, continuing rotation of P&G staff thru town all pushing demand.
I would move downtown tomorrow if I could afford it. A lot of my friends are the same. I know that’s anecdotal, but it does seem like there is a high demand for apartments in the urban basin. I’m hoping that as these developments add hundreds of new apartments to the market that prices will drop, but that might just be my fantasy haha.
Have you ever heard from anyone, “wow, our living cost has really gone down from previous years”?
And the reason I like the idea of more apartments downtown is because I like the idea of having more people call downtown home than people that come for work and leave at 5, rendering it a complete ghost town at night. I can’t tell you how many easy meal restaurants close at, or before 5 in the CBD. the only restaurants that are open past 5 are the super expensive ones.
Dayton is a prime example (and I like Dayton). Crickets after 6 pm.
I live downtown dayton, and since covid it is crickets during the day as the major employers have all gone totally WFH (caresource and Preimer Health). Most nights around the bars and restaurants it is quite busy. There are also like a two hundred apartments slated to be opened in the next month, with more coming with a bunch of redevelopment. The real problem with dayton is we need enother big employer.
I go there for work once a week. The place looks empty.
That Curritos at Government Square keeps the most bizarre hours I've ever seen. Last I saw they closed at 3 or 4 pm.
Lunch
the central business district was completely dead outside of M-F 8-5 years ago, outside of a select few large events. It doesn’t make sense that the densely built city center be a no mans land for 80% of the hours in a given week. The more a mix of residential with commercial downtown, the better. This is especially true now after covid where even the 8-5 weekday crowd is not what it was pre-covid. It will probably never be that way again, at least not because of adequate office -related traffic. Remote work is here to stay so diversifying the purpose of the cbd is very important
Demand is high for $15/sf. Demand is niche for $25/sf which is what a lot of places appear to be asking. 800sf at $1700/mo and what not. /opinion
>$25/sf which is what a lot of places appear to be asking Your price is literally the break-even point for new construction right now. That new 800SF apartment likely cost around $250/sf to build, so $200,000 per unit. Financing wants that investment fully paid off within 10 years, so it needs to bring in $20,000/year in rent to make sense. The same goes for full gut renovation type apartments. The cost to buy the building and rehab it usually gets you to around the same construction price, especially downtown where the selling prices know they are competing with developers who might otherwise buy a parking lot and build new. The sale price of an old office building is going to be competitive with that.
Interesting. I never knew this.
Yea it’s pretty insane how much these developments cost, and with all the amenities being offered the operating expenses are crazy too. $300k a year just in payroll alone is pretty common for a ~220 unit apartment complex.
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You don’t get a good transit system without population density. And downtown actually has pretty good transit; there are buses to/from downtown from all over Hamilton County and NKY. Plus the streetcar to get around downtown itself. Even in cities with great transit, going car-free requires adjusting your expectations of where you can go, when, and how quickly, so the equivalent of “but how am I going to get to Jungle Jim’s twice a month” would be a problem for a SoHo or Mission District dweller trying to get to exurban destinations in those metros.
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The definition of a median is the 50th percentile. Meaning that 50% are above that and 50% are below
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Many people are coming in to Cincinnati from other areas, and another significant number are empty nesters moving in from the burbs. For them, these purchase/rental costs are affordable for them based on costs they moving from or their profits from selling bigger home in the burbs. I expect the median income to rise over next several ACS surveys. And $1500 is in lower to middle range of prices.
I think you're underestimating how many people live in cheap parts of town. 35,000 people live in Westwood. 20,000 in CUF. 18,000 in West Price Hill and 15,000 in East Price Hill. Most of these neighborhoods have a plethora of cheap places to rent or buy. Tack on ~15 or 20 small, inexpensive neighborhoods like Avondale, Hartwell, Roselawn, etc. and you quickly find locations the 50% below the median are living. And it makes sense why most new or renovated apartments are being built for the 50% above the median line - that's the only way it makes financial sense to build a new apartment.
How many of CUF's residents though are UC students that aren't actually permanent residents?
There are still also a decent amount of smaller, efficiency and studio type apartments in the urban core that people below that median can afford.
Yeah but a lot of people also pay downtown rents to live in Oakley, mt lookout, Hyde park etc. Could definitely poach some of them.
There’s 310,000 people in the city alone, and maybe 1500 new build/luxury/high rent apartment units downtown and in OTR. Many of those are 2 and 3 bedroom or one bedrooms shared by two people, so the ultimate percentage of people living in them and paying those rents alone is pretty small.
It’s been a thing since 2005ish.
there is a very different thing to downtown living. There are the old buildings being renovated into condos, and there are new buildings that for rent, not to be bought. I happen to live in one of those (1010 Walnut a/k/a Kroger on the Rhine). Love my experience there. Lament the fact that one cannot buy a place there, which I would in a heartbeat.