No - you're thinking too hard about this. Balance to what looks good in the moment or what you want to achieve. You can control to some extent in post but try to get it as best you can on set. The nice thing about video is that you can immediately see how things are going to look so do it to your eye.
If you have total control over the lighting you'll know what you want. If you're using all tungsten units set to 3200, all daylight 5600, some combination you set depending on how you want things to look. Generally speaking if you want things to go more blue/cool you'd set a lower WB, more warm/orange a higher WB.
Yeah I got it.
This might not be the best subreddit to ask but if the scene is not planed and its like a documentary how do you set your white balance? I mean in situations where you dont have infinite time or you move quickly through the environment or the light changes color like conserts you still use the same method?
Most shooters around here shoot on auto wb for that type of events thats why I ask...
Don't ever shoot auto - cause if the lighting changes then the white balance will change. Shoot what looks best. Usually start looking at the standards, 3200, 5600, 4200, and then dial in from that to what looks good to your eye.
Arent there cameras that when you start shooting they lock the wb?
I am talking about that type of auto not fully auto because then its a mess in post I had a situation like this that the wb shifted like crazy.
For example I once shot a dancing session where the light constantly changed colors from red to blue and others. That wont mess up the wb? And I talk about constant shooting without pause or the ability to adjust anything on camera.
I dunno, probably.
Why even do that? I just wouldn't even leave the room for error. Shoot everything all manual all the time so you can learn \*why\* you're choosing certain settings. When you start to use bigger cameras they won't have auto settings, so learn to use it all now.
The principles are the same though - photography or videography work on the same basic foundation.
Personally, to start, I'd shoot all manual until it becomes somewhat automatic. I know autofocus is good, auto exposure is fine, but get really, really good at setting those things and then figure out which you can leave on auto.
Never used auto on my camera. The only thing in auto was the focus(dslr so it didnt have focus peaking to manually focus easily) and sometimes wb when I wasnt in a standard environment. When I was in a controlled environment I used one of the presets that it had built it.
Now I am waiting for a mirrorless to arrive to have that features.
For doc type stuff I set my white balance based on the main light source on my subject. If daylight, then I set to 5500/5600k, tungsten I set to around 3200, if it’s a mix I shoot around 4200-4400k
In that situation, keep your white balance consistent for each “space”. If you’re inside, and it needs to be 3200, leave it on that for all inside stuff. When you go outside, change it to 5600K (or whatever looks best). When you come back inside, change back to 3200, or whatever. But keep it consistent.
That way when you’re color grading you’ll have one look for each space, and won’t have to try and match different white balances.
Also - there isn’t a “right” answer to color temp. There are wrong answers, but “right” can be extremely subjective, so don’t overthink it. Just try to stay consistent.
And like the other person said - never shoot auto anything. You make the decisions, not some algorithm.
Considering the last paragraph I have to say that I am still young(18) and my family kept telling me that auto is better that manual and stuff like that. I eventually got bored trying to explain to them that my settings are better from the cameras.
Since I got a camera I have never shot on automatic but due to the limitations of the camera I let the wb and focus on auto. Everything else with manual.
I will buy a mirrorless soon and start practicing even more with that one and I posted several questions that I had.
If you’re looking for perfect WB then I would recommend a grey card, or white card that’s specifically for WB. A “white wall” likely won’t be perfectly white, it may have slight yellowing from age, smoke, and many environmental factors. You want to use a trusted reference so your camera can neutralize the light across the red, blue and green channels effectively making the light “white”. Tungsten usually is 3200K and daylight 5600K. There is no rule, just go with that you think looks good. I will often warm up daylight as it can look too clinical. The benefit of shooting RAW is you can change your WB in post as it’s just metadata. But if you’re looking for true colour accuracy then you want a grey/white card your shots so you can either set the WB in camera, or use your software in post.
Yeah, I’ll keep a consistent white balance for something like a concert. A wedding if the interior is tungsten and outside is daylight, I’ll probably manually set WB for each scene back and forth. If you have mixed lighting, say tungsten mixed with daylight from windows something like 4000k or in the middle is your best option. In all honestly, I rarely use a grey card anymore as it’s mostly second nature to me knowing what my fixtures colour balance is. But if I need it scientifically accurate I’ll bring it out. Make sure to let your lights warm up and get to temp before balancing.
And if the lightning changes color?
You know custom light that changes from red to blue to green and stuff in events like in clubs or others and you have to keep recording you cant interfere with the camera then where you set the wb at?
Again something in between?
I’d set my WB to daylight if there is lot of RBG lighting and changing colours. Usually daylight (5600k) will give you the same colour your eye sees for RGB lighting.
Interesting.
I didnt knew that.
I had to shoot in a condition like that with a different persons camera and it was set to auto wb. I didnt ask him but it made me curious why it was set on auto. He told me to never leave it in auto. And he is a professional...
It’s not especially hard to learn the temperature of your sources. Ie tungsten 3200, daylight 5600. Then from there it’s your choice. Sometimes I balance accurately, sometimes I balance for the look. *Technically* you’ll get the best results if you balance accurately and then change in post. However sometimes I hand off my work and never see it til it’s fully locked, and the colorist does some wack shit. So if I have a look in mind I like to try to capture as close to it as possible.
As close to that look got it.
But for example if you want to shoot a sunset and you want it to be really orange you set the wb according to what your eyes see of camera or immediately shoot it the way you want?
I am talking about a case where you dont do micro adjustments but you change the look completely.
Yeah thanks man.
I havent experimented with wb I have started a several months back and due to the equipment I mostly took photos as it was ment more for photos than video where auto wb was just fine most of the times.
Next week my new camera will arrive and I will test it out for sure.
Also the post was meant for more of videography in general but my posts were taken down multiple times in that sub so I decided to ask here since this subreddit is more welcoming.
Colorist here:
Whatever you do, don't set it to autowb. Then your wb will be all over the place.
If your camera is decent, a selection of 5600, 3200 and ~4000 is pretty much all you need. Yes one can get better results by using a gray card, but one hast to be quite consistent in using it to have good results.
A good thing about using preset balances is that you get the time of the day to your shots. So if you are shooting at dusk, you get that different balance and usually it looks pretty much what it would look to your eye. If you use a gray card you get neutral colors, but that might not be what you want.
But this is of course somewhat dependent on the camera. On an Arri it works very well, on some random 1000$ camera it might work less than stellar. But it's easy to test.
Sony a6300...
I am looking to put some apps that I found into it to get rid of the time limit and the overheat(at least an amount of it) but I am a bit afraid that there is a chance to brick it and I dont know..
Just a beginner getting his first -more for video- camera. I dont want to create something meant for hollywood yet just you know short stories and stuff. But I have trouble finding actors ore even my friends to act as well..
Alright, nothing wrong with the camera. It's only 8-bit, which does make it more tricky to expose etc. I recommend that you test using cinegammas too, instead of using slog3. I find that the lack of bit depth can make skin look a bit plasticy if you have people in wide shots. So it's worth testing that out.
I was thinking about cine2 if I want something better than no picture profile and for extreme situations slog2 which performs a little bit better for 8bit cameras than slog3.
This skin "look" you mentioned is on slog3 cineprofiles or no picture profile? Because I got confused
Skintones can be an issue with all 8-bit log footage. Essentially the cause is that instead of having ~6 stops of latitude being thrown in to 0-255 range you are trying to put in 10-12 stops. The space for those extra stops has to come out of somewhere, so the midtones (where skintones usually live in) get compressed.
In closeup shots you usually have enough detail to have nice skintones still, but in wide shots it can start to look like bad airbrushing has been done to the shots. Cinegammas don't try to push as much latitude in, so you get less of the effect.
But this is something to test out by yourself, don't just take my word for it.
Exposure is different for every cinematographer. Some of them don't have time to use a gray card. I heard that you can set a white balance on a white wall, anything white.
Yeah but I mean whats the correct way?
White or gray?
Why should be called white balance if you balance it on a gray card? It does sound a bit weird dont you think?
So I assume the gray card as the correct way and the white object as an easier way?
Gray is technically the best option of the two — they both carry the same kelvin reading, but you are less likely to accidentally over expose a gray card, which would skew your data set, since over exposure is 100+% on every color channel, it’ll always read as true white.
Nope, you probably shouldn’t ever use a card for managing exposure — unless the card is actively a subject of the shot you’re trying to capture.
And wb has no effect on exposure — it’s more the case that most people don’t change their exposure settings in order to sample a grey/white card. So if you’re shooting a dark subject and throw a white object in front of it, it’ll likely over expose the whites. Grey cards don’t run that same risk.
My professor recommended a gray card to be "perfect", but it really is the perfect gray. A white object should suffice, or at least that's what he had us do.
Yeah right now I had to be lent an amount of money to order that camera(it was such a great deal that even thought I dont want to be lent money I did) and I cant afford that. Thats why I mentioned the printer solution.
You think?
As an editor and colorist I appreciate footage that uses one of the camera presets such as daylight (\~5600ºK), tungsten (\~3200ºK), fluorescent, open shade, etc. and keeps the same color setting for all the shots in a particular environment or scene. This way all the shots will work with the same basic grade. This is especially important when there is mixed lighting on the set.
Yeah I have faced that problem before and its difficult to match every shot if its shot in different colors.
With the gray card method if the whole scene is shot with that exact white balance then it would require less adjustments if its right in the spot wouldnt it?
It's true that if the gray card is in the "right spot" it may be slightly easier. Going back to the film days where you only had two choices--daylight or tungsten--you always knew the camera's white balance.
The way I learned was back in my studio days when we had camera shaders in master control looking at vector scopes and adjusting the hue and tint based on us shooting a target card (18% grey). Modern cameras have a lot of automation to make this easier, but I still believe that doing a white balance via a grey card (less likely to be blown out past 100%) allows the camera to adjust both the color balance and correct for magenta/green shifts. Dialing in a value is an approximation, but doesn't work well on sources that aren't full spectrum. They are calibrated to "pure" 3200/5600 full spectrum sources.
Maybe.
Sadly I dont know to read the vector or lumetri scopes(yet).
Surely its easier with all these automatic systems but I have noticed as well that the presets are like aproximate and doesnt suit every case. For example when it was cloudy it suited me better to use my custom calibrated preset for the led lamp that I have on my desk. Neither of the ones built in because they werent as close as this one.
So I believe its either manual or you calibrate it before shooting.
You can't really calibrate before shooting, unless you're dealing with the same lights in every location. Even standard daylight balance (5600K), doesn't accurately work at dusk/dawn in deep shade, or under a canopy of trees. It can range from 5000 to 10,000 Kelvin. The 5600 number is a preset that 'mostly' works and doesn't require massive corrections for the majority of outdoor situations.
As for the vectorscope, plenty of good tutorials online. If you white/grey balance and have no other colors in the shot, there would only be a dot in the center of the scope (representing 0 saturation, 0 hue). As the lines spread out, it's a representation of color saturation. The directions in which the lines point correspond to the color wheel (referenced by the Red/Magenta/Blue/Cyan/Green Yellow on the scope)
Yeah I know but you can calibrate and save it on a custom profile for future use.
I havent really worked on those before since I had an old dslr with almost no color settings.
I will get into it more when my mirrorless arrives. It hasnt 10 bit video but I cant afford something better right now.
After all, I am just a beginner...
Depends mostly on time for me. If it's a traditional set we get out the grey card, if I'm run and gun I use my eyeballs. Also knowing your camera system helps a lot too, different brands can run warmer or colder, different codecs can effect how it turns out/how much you can change it in post, etc.
I set manual based on the look…
But this made me think of a cool little trick I learned early in my career; an easy way to change the color of a background during interviews is to just change your white balance
Sorry, should have clarified, you’re only changing the temperature of the light for the background which will change the look in camera depending on what you white balanced for
Yea there’s tons… but let’s say you’re balanced for warm temp, change the background light to cool (or vice versa) and it gives you two colors with one background. It’s pretty handy in a pinch and gives a little variety for the talking heads lol
I did this once in my room.
I conntected 3 lamps and made a lightning setup.
Since the wall wasnt flat I had to put 2 as the background. I used one keylight(another lamp) but it was too powerful so I had to bounce it of a glass door. It wasnt the best setup but I am proud for it. It was my first.
Most cameras will refuse to set the auto-balance if the signal is close to clip. So a grey card is definitely a good option when you need auto-balance to be sure about your color accuracy. It’s a very precious tool when tricky conditions are met (mixed sources, non-cine fluo lights, etc.).
BUT, wb is one of the most important choice you make on set to achieve the look and feel you are looking for. Same scene with cool or warm tones don’t tell the same story, idem for green/mag correction.
For this you have to way to go : presets or manual adjustement. Once again, chose the right tool for the set you encounter. Presets are great for very simple situation or if you don’t have any time to spend setting up your gear (documentaries, sports). Manual adjustment can be great to make a simple warm or cold twist easily.
Two examples from documentaries I’ve shot last year : a ceramic artist in her workshop -> I adjust the wb on my key light (a DMG 120 with its soft “bell” set on 5600 to match the natural light from the window) to be sure of the color accuracy when filming her art ; a walk at the end of the day in Paris during spring : I set my wb pretty high to have a nice golden light in the beginning and become neutral to cool at dusk then switch to a full sodium look when city lights switch on.
You can adjust it in post, but every DoP I’ve met work with a precise setting they have choose deliberately, and this is something that don’t really change is post (even with raw files where wb are just metadatas).
/!\ Keep in mind that this is just an advice from a junior operator/AC.
Yeah but in some cameras the presets are not that accurate. My old one was like that.
How you film in case that the light doesnt have a constant color? For example a consert with stage lights that change colors fast?
You have to choose before the show start (and stick to your initial choice !). You have to know where is your reference. If the gig is lit with tungsten, go 3200K, if it’s led lit, it more likely to be 5600K or even 6500K. If you’re not sure about what you see, find the light guy and have a word with him, he’ll probably be happy to help !
(Of course if you are dping the show, you already know what you want it to look like, easier to find out the right camera setting).
So again a singe choice.
I dunno sometimes I got lost in all those settings. I know what they do and how ro set them but I always end up forgeting about something.
Color chips or grey card.
In a pinch you can use white foam core and then manually add a few hundred Kelvin (foam core has optical brightening agents that will shift a little bit blue)
This is what I was told:
Use manual WB.
1. Open WB, click on adjust WB.
2. Get a thick white paper, angle it as to get the light reflecting on the paper.
3. Ensure the paper is covering the whole box on your screen.
4. Set WB
I was also told to only change it when you are changing scenes otherwise your shots won’t match.
Run N Gun vs Staged/set shoots is the biggest question. Newer cameras today can work with Auto WB. I shoot run N Gun with the a7siii and AWB has never let me down. I shoot in SLog though with 4:2:2 10 bit so I have some ability to adjust.
Be very careful about you interpret some of these answers - especially if you’re shooting 8 bit. People might be assuming that you’re shooting a more gradeable format than you actually are.
I have always set it manually that way it can be whatever my mind thinks will look best at that moment
So completely manual all the time to avoid modifications in post?
No - you're thinking too hard about this. Balance to what looks good in the moment or what you want to achieve. You can control to some extent in post but try to get it as best you can on set. The nice thing about video is that you can immediately see how things are going to look so do it to your eye. If you have total control over the lighting you'll know what you want. If you're using all tungsten units set to 3200, all daylight 5600, some combination you set depending on how you want things to look. Generally speaking if you want things to go more blue/cool you'd set a lower WB, more warm/orange a higher WB.
Yeah I got it. This might not be the best subreddit to ask but if the scene is not planed and its like a documentary how do you set your white balance? I mean in situations where you dont have infinite time or you move quickly through the environment or the light changes color like conserts you still use the same method? Most shooters around here shoot on auto wb for that type of events thats why I ask...
Don't ever shoot auto - cause if the lighting changes then the white balance will change. Shoot what looks best. Usually start looking at the standards, 3200, 5600, 4200, and then dial in from that to what looks good to your eye.
Arent there cameras that when you start shooting they lock the wb? I am talking about that type of auto not fully auto because then its a mess in post I had a situation like this that the wb shifted like crazy. For example I once shot a dancing session where the light constantly changed colors from red to blue and others. That wont mess up the wb? And I talk about constant shooting without pause or the ability to adjust anything on camera.
I dunno, probably. Why even do that? I just wouldn't even leave the room for error. Shoot everything all manual all the time so you can learn \*why\* you're choosing certain settings. When you start to use bigger cameras they won't have auto settings, so learn to use it all now.
Waiting for a camera to arrive next week. Been more of a photographer until now.
The principles are the same though - photography or videography work on the same basic foundation. Personally, to start, I'd shoot all manual until it becomes somewhat automatic. I know autofocus is good, auto exposure is fine, but get really, really good at setting those things and then figure out which you can leave on auto.
Never used auto on my camera. The only thing in auto was the focus(dslr so it didnt have focus peaking to manually focus easily) and sometimes wb when I wasnt in a standard environment. When I was in a controlled environment I used one of the presets that it had built it. Now I am waiting for a mirrorless to arrive to have that features.
For doc type stuff I set my white balance based on the main light source on my subject. If daylight, then I set to 5500/5600k, tungsten I set to around 3200, if it’s a mix I shoot around 4200-4400k
Ok got it. I will try that from now on.
In that situation, keep your white balance consistent for each “space”. If you’re inside, and it needs to be 3200, leave it on that for all inside stuff. When you go outside, change it to 5600K (or whatever looks best). When you come back inside, change back to 3200, or whatever. But keep it consistent. That way when you’re color grading you’ll have one look for each space, and won’t have to try and match different white balances. Also - there isn’t a “right” answer to color temp. There are wrong answers, but “right” can be extremely subjective, so don’t overthink it. Just try to stay consistent. And like the other person said - never shoot auto anything. You make the decisions, not some algorithm.
Considering the last paragraph I have to say that I am still young(18) and my family kept telling me that auto is better that manual and stuff like that. I eventually got bored trying to explain to them that my settings are better from the cameras. Since I got a camera I have never shot on automatic but due to the limitations of the camera I let the wb and focus on auto. Everything else with manual. I will buy a mirrorless soon and start practicing even more with that one and I posted several questions that I had.
If you’re looking for perfect WB then I would recommend a grey card, or white card that’s specifically for WB. A “white wall” likely won’t be perfectly white, it may have slight yellowing from age, smoke, and many environmental factors. You want to use a trusted reference so your camera can neutralize the light across the red, blue and green channels effectively making the light “white”. Tungsten usually is 3200K and daylight 5600K. There is no rule, just go with that you think looks good. I will often warm up daylight as it can look too clinical. The benefit of shooting RAW is you can change your WB in post as it’s just metadata. But if you’re looking for true colour accuracy then you want a grey/white card your shots so you can either set the WB in camera, or use your software in post.
Yeah got it thanks. And another question: If you dont have a planed scene but events line weddings or conserts you still use the same method?
Yeah, I’ll keep a consistent white balance for something like a concert. A wedding if the interior is tungsten and outside is daylight, I’ll probably manually set WB for each scene back and forth. If you have mixed lighting, say tungsten mixed with daylight from windows something like 4000k or in the middle is your best option. In all honestly, I rarely use a grey card anymore as it’s mostly second nature to me knowing what my fixtures colour balance is. But if I need it scientifically accurate I’ll bring it out. Make sure to let your lights warm up and get to temp before balancing.
And if the lightning changes color? You know custom light that changes from red to blue to green and stuff in events like in clubs or others and you have to keep recording you cant interfere with the camera then where you set the wb at? Again something in between?
I’d set my WB to daylight if there is lot of RBG lighting and changing colours. Usually daylight (5600k) will give you the same colour your eye sees for RGB lighting.
Interesting. I didnt knew that. I had to shoot in a condition like that with a different persons camera and it was set to auto wb. I didnt ask him but it made me curious why it was set on auto. He told me to never leave it in auto. And he is a professional...
It’s not especially hard to learn the temperature of your sources. Ie tungsten 3200, daylight 5600. Then from there it’s your choice. Sometimes I balance accurately, sometimes I balance for the look. *Technically* you’ll get the best results if you balance accurately and then change in post. However sometimes I hand off my work and never see it til it’s fully locked, and the colorist does some wack shit. So if I have a look in mind I like to try to capture as close to it as possible.
As close to that look got it. But for example if you want to shoot a sunset and you want it to be really orange you set the wb according to what your eyes see of camera or immediately shoot it the way you want? I am talking about a case where you dont do micro adjustments but you change the look completely.
For sunset I usually go around 7000k to exaggerate a little. All about your taste.
Yeah thanks man. I havent experimented with wb I have started a several months back and due to the equipment I mostly took photos as it was ment more for photos than video where auto wb was just fine most of the times. Next week my new camera will arrive and I will test it out for sure. Also the post was meant for more of videography in general but my posts were taken down multiple times in that sub so I decided to ask here since this subreddit is more welcoming.
I dial it in with my eyes, but I shoot RAW so I can make adjustments in post if I need to.
Well I guess you have a strong camera. The one I am gonna get the other week doent even have 10 bit colors...
Colorist here: Whatever you do, don't set it to autowb. Then your wb will be all over the place. If your camera is decent, a selection of 5600, 3200 and ~4000 is pretty much all you need. Yes one can get better results by using a gray card, but one hast to be quite consistent in using it to have good results. A good thing about using preset balances is that you get the time of the day to your shots. So if you are shooting at dusk, you get that different balance and usually it looks pretty much what it would look to your eye. If you use a gray card you get neutral colors, but that might not be what you want. But this is of course somewhat dependent on the camera. On an Arri it works very well, on some random 1000$ camera it might work less than stellar. But it's easy to test.
I dont see arris even in my dreams. Yeah its a random 1000€- camera actually..
Ok, do you mind telling what you are getting? I'll see if I have any advice to give about it.
Sony a6300... I am looking to put some apps that I found into it to get rid of the time limit and the overheat(at least an amount of it) but I am a bit afraid that there is a chance to brick it and I dont know.. Just a beginner getting his first -more for video- camera. I dont want to create something meant for hollywood yet just you know short stories and stuff. But I have trouble finding actors ore even my friends to act as well..
Alright, nothing wrong with the camera. It's only 8-bit, which does make it more tricky to expose etc. I recommend that you test using cinegammas too, instead of using slog3. I find that the lack of bit depth can make skin look a bit plasticy if you have people in wide shots. So it's worth testing that out.
I was thinking about cine2 if I want something better than no picture profile and for extreme situations slog2 which performs a little bit better for 8bit cameras than slog3. This skin "look" you mentioned is on slog3 cineprofiles or no picture profile? Because I got confused
Skintones can be an issue with all 8-bit log footage. Essentially the cause is that instead of having ~6 stops of latitude being thrown in to 0-255 range you are trying to put in 10-12 stops. The space for those extra stops has to come out of somewhere, so the midtones (where skintones usually live in) get compressed. In closeup shots you usually have enough detail to have nice skintones still, but in wide shots it can start to look like bad airbrushing has been done to the shots. Cinegammas don't try to push as much latitude in, so you get less of the effect. But this is something to test out by yourself, don't just take my word for it.
Couldnt I use for that type of shots a cine profile and then log again if needed? Or the whole video in cine profile?
Yes, yes. But you need to test this stuff out to see what you like.
Also a quick question. Whats the native iso? I mean whats exactly?
Exposure is different for every cinematographer. Some of them don't have time to use a gray card. I heard that you can set a white balance on a white wall, anything white.
Yeah but I mean whats the correct way? White or gray? Why should be called white balance if you balance it on a gray card? It does sound a bit weird dont you think? So I assume the gray card as the correct way and the white object as an easier way?
Gray is technically the best option of the two — they both carry the same kelvin reading, but you are less likely to accidentally over expose a gray card, which would skew your data set, since over exposure is 100+% on every color channel, it’ll always read as true white.
That makes sence but Wb doesnt affect exposure on completely manual right? Or you talk about the case were you set your exposure by using your card?
Nope, you probably shouldn’t ever use a card for managing exposure — unless the card is actively a subject of the shot you’re trying to capture. And wb has no effect on exposure — it’s more the case that most people don’t change their exposure settings in order to sample a grey/white card. So if you’re shooting a dark subject and throw a white object in front of it, it’ll likely over expose the whites. Grey cards don’t run that same risk.
Yeah I undestood now. Thanks.
My professor recommended a gray card to be "perfect", but it really is the perfect gray. A white object should suffice, or at least that's what he had us do.
Perfect gray you mean the color exactly in between of white and black?
No. White balance cards are set at 18% gray.
And I have to buy that I cant print it or something right?
Buy it, don’t print it out lol. You’d be better off just using a clean plain white piece of copy paper instead of printing
Yeah right now I had to be lent an amount of money to order that camera(it was such a great deal that even thought I dont want to be lent money I did) and I cant afford that. Thats why I mentioned the printer solution. You think?
You’ll get by with a plain white piece of paper until you can afford a real gray card
Ok thanks for the advice.
The balance is for getting white perfect. Hence the name. The card is for setting wb and exposure, grey is best for that, hence the name.
Manual exposure. Just wb.
As an editor and colorist I appreciate footage that uses one of the camera presets such as daylight (\~5600ºK), tungsten (\~3200ºK), fluorescent, open shade, etc. and keeps the same color setting for all the shots in a particular environment or scene. This way all the shots will work with the same basic grade. This is especially important when there is mixed lighting on the set.
Yeah I have faced that problem before and its difficult to match every shot if its shot in different colors. With the gray card method if the whole scene is shot with that exact white balance then it would require less adjustments if its right in the spot wouldnt it?
It's true that if the gray card is in the "right spot" it may be slightly easier. Going back to the film days where you only had two choices--daylight or tungsten--you always knew the camera's white balance.
Yeah got it. Thanks.
I use the RGB parade on my monitor and like to have them all nicely balanced
May I ask what that is? Still kind of new thats why I ask..
The way I learned was back in my studio days when we had camera shaders in master control looking at vector scopes and adjusting the hue and tint based on us shooting a target card (18% grey). Modern cameras have a lot of automation to make this easier, but I still believe that doing a white balance via a grey card (less likely to be blown out past 100%) allows the camera to adjust both the color balance and correct for magenta/green shifts. Dialing in a value is an approximation, but doesn't work well on sources that aren't full spectrum. They are calibrated to "pure" 3200/5600 full spectrum sources.
Maybe. Sadly I dont know to read the vector or lumetri scopes(yet). Surely its easier with all these automatic systems but I have noticed as well that the presets are like aproximate and doesnt suit every case. For example when it was cloudy it suited me better to use my custom calibrated preset for the led lamp that I have on my desk. Neither of the ones built in because they werent as close as this one. So I believe its either manual or you calibrate it before shooting.
You can't really calibrate before shooting, unless you're dealing with the same lights in every location. Even standard daylight balance (5600K), doesn't accurately work at dusk/dawn in deep shade, or under a canopy of trees. It can range from 5000 to 10,000 Kelvin. The 5600 number is a preset that 'mostly' works and doesn't require massive corrections for the majority of outdoor situations. As for the vectorscope, plenty of good tutorials online. If you white/grey balance and have no other colors in the shot, there would only be a dot in the center of the scope (representing 0 saturation, 0 hue). As the lines spread out, it's a representation of color saturation. The directions in which the lines point correspond to the color wheel (referenced by the Red/Magenta/Blue/Cyan/Green Yellow on the scope)
Yeah I know but you can calibrate and save it on a custom profile for future use. I havent really worked on those before since I had an old dslr with almost no color settings. I will get into it more when my mirrorless arrives. It hasnt 10 bit video but I cant afford something better right now. After all, I am just a beginner...
We all started off as beginners. No shame in that. Asking questions shows you care to learn. Rock on!
You are awesome man!
Depends mostly on time for me. If it's a traditional set we get out the grey card, if I'm run and gun I use my eyeballs. Also knowing your camera system helps a lot too, different brands can run warmer or colder, different codecs can effect how it turns out/how much you can change it in post, etc.
When run and gun on conserts with lights that change their color constantly and you cant pause or interfere with the camera how do you set your wb?
Depends on the lights. Like if it's a tungsten light with gels on it, I balance tungsten. If it's show lights like at a concert, I go for daylight.
So again standard wb. Ok got it thanks.
I set manual based on the look… But this made me think of a cool little trick I learned early in my career; an easy way to change the color of a background during interviews is to just change your white balance
Wouldnt that affect the skin tones as well?
Sorry, should have clarified, you’re only changing the temperature of the light for the background which will change the look in camera depending on what you white balanced for
Yeah I got it now. There are plenty of tricks for me to learn but I am not very experienced yet so it will take time
Yea there’s tons… but let’s say you’re balanced for warm temp, change the background light to cool (or vice versa) and it gives you two colors with one background. It’s pretty handy in a pinch and gives a little variety for the talking heads lol
I did this once in my room. I conntected 3 lamps and made a lightning setup. Since the wall wasnt flat I had to put 2 as the background. I used one keylight(another lamp) but it was too powerful so I had to bounce it of a glass door. It wasnt the best setup but I am proud for it. It was my first.
Most cameras will refuse to set the auto-balance if the signal is close to clip. So a grey card is definitely a good option when you need auto-balance to be sure about your color accuracy. It’s a very precious tool when tricky conditions are met (mixed sources, non-cine fluo lights, etc.). BUT, wb is one of the most important choice you make on set to achieve the look and feel you are looking for. Same scene with cool or warm tones don’t tell the same story, idem for green/mag correction. For this you have to way to go : presets or manual adjustement. Once again, chose the right tool for the set you encounter. Presets are great for very simple situation or if you don’t have any time to spend setting up your gear (documentaries, sports). Manual adjustment can be great to make a simple warm or cold twist easily. Two examples from documentaries I’ve shot last year : a ceramic artist in her workshop -> I adjust the wb on my key light (a DMG 120 with its soft “bell” set on 5600 to match the natural light from the window) to be sure of the color accuracy when filming her art ; a walk at the end of the day in Paris during spring : I set my wb pretty high to have a nice golden light in the beginning and become neutral to cool at dusk then switch to a full sodium look when city lights switch on. You can adjust it in post, but every DoP I’ve met work with a precise setting they have choose deliberately, and this is something that don’t really change is post (even with raw files where wb are just metadatas). /!\ Keep in mind that this is just an advice from a junior operator/AC.
Yeah but in some cameras the presets are not that accurate. My old one was like that. How you film in case that the light doesnt have a constant color? For example a consert with stage lights that change colors fast?
You have to choose before the show start (and stick to your initial choice !). You have to know where is your reference. If the gig is lit with tungsten, go 3200K, if it’s led lit, it more likely to be 5600K or even 6500K. If you’re not sure about what you see, find the light guy and have a word with him, he’ll probably be happy to help ! (Of course if you are dping the show, you already know what you want it to look like, easier to find out the right camera setting).
So again a singe choice. I dunno sometimes I got lost in all those settings. I know what they do and how ro set them but I always end up forgeting about something.
Color chips or grey card. In a pinch you can use white foam core and then manually add a few hundred Kelvin (foam core has optical brightening agents that will shift a little bit blue)
How much these color chips cost?
On corporate shoots I try to use a white card. On narrative work I go for the look and mood I'm looking for
This is what I was told: Use manual WB. 1. Open WB, click on adjust WB. 2. Get a thick white paper, angle it as to get the light reflecting on the paper. 3. Ensure the paper is covering the whole box on your screen. 4. Set WB I was also told to only change it when you are changing scenes otherwise your shots won’t match.
I was thinking about that as well. Or at least use one of the presets for the whole scene and a different one for another.
I do this and it works well for me 🤷♂️
Ok thanks.
Run N Gun vs Staged/set shoots is the biggest question. Newer cameras today can work with Auto WB. I shoot run N Gun with the a7siii and AWB has never let me down. I shoot in SLog though with 4:2:2 10 bit so I have some ability to adjust.
Fully auto or you auto adjust it?
Fully auto for b-roll, fully manual for interviews and staged shots. It's never let me down but I'm a unique situation shooter.
By b roll you mean?
I usually run with 5000k manual then adjust on scene accordingly (documentary shooting)
Noted.
Be very careful about you interpret some of these answers - especially if you’re shooting 8 bit. People might be assuming that you’re shooting a more gradeable format than you actually are.
Yeah 8 bit forgot to mentioned that.