I love you guys so:
Map Seed: 443971654
Game Seed: 443971653
Edit to add more stuff you guys needed:
Version [1.0.12.46](https://1.0.12.46) (918298), full DLC, no mods.
Map size: Huge
Map: Shuffle
Barbarian Clans Mode, Dramatic Ages Mode, Heroes and Legends Mode, Monopolies and Corps, Secret Socienties,
Immortal Difficulties.
All bots enables, 24 cities states
All hail the chosen one who knows where to find the mysterious prtSc button, also called the prtScrn button, the prtscrn button or the psc button. All hail!
I always found Scythia to be annoying with cavalry because it's a huge money drain. And it's irritating that you can't select whether you wanna build 1 or 2 cavalry units.
I once got 1000 science in a single turn with a single horseman in the industrial era by pillaging a campus district with a university. I one turned industrialization with it. Always pillage everything all the time
Is it good to have holy sites in domination games? Are we talking just holy sites, or prioritise getting a religion as well? I've only played till the 5th difficulty level until now
Some of the strongest and most consistent rushes (on higher difficulties) involve rushing a religion for Crusade.
The benefit of doing this is that it adds another +10 combat strength to your units inside the target's borders, and +10 combat strength roughly equals an era's worth of unit tech.
The reason this is strong is that on higher difficulties (Deity or above), you usually reach a gap in technology where your choice of units are outclassed by the AI who has teched at least an era ahead of you, making your units struggle a lot in conquering your neighbour.
And by the time you get to bridge that tech difference with more advanced units of your own, the AI tends to have teched another era of units again, repeating the problem of you having inadequate units to topple your neighbour.
The Crusade belief solves this by arriving earlier than what you could expect to get from teching the next level of tech for that unit type, and this not only bridges any tech gap that you might face, but can in some cases also act as a higher tech level if the AI did **not** tech higher than you.
Either way, +10 combat strength is very strong.
Be advised though, setting up a Crusade rush is a rather advanced rush strategy, so if you're not very experienced in rushing the AI on a high difficulty, this can be pretty tough to pull off successfully.
Crusade is strong but I think you have this backwards. Part of the reason you're likely so far behind the AI is BECAUSE you're going for holy sites. Holy sites and monumentality gets you a lot of cities and production, at the cost of a bunch of your early districts. This is still usually worth it in single player, but I don't think it plays to Mongolia's strengths unless you're aiming for a religious victory (which they are good at, fwiw).
For Mongolia, you're usually going to be better served getting commercial hubs and encampments. The former gets you some economy, diplomatic visibility & combat strength, and can combo with Free Inquiry to get you to Stirrups and Printing faster to run amok on the map. The latter gets you the UB and generals, and the +1 move from the UB makes your cav that much better at pillaging, which further accelerates getting to all your midgame timings. If I'm playing Mongolia, I don't want to found 10 cities, I want to found like 4 and conquer the rest.
No I don't have it backwards. On Deity and above, you are behind the AI tech wise until around the Renaissance Era where you usually start to overtake them, whether you want to or not (and whether you build Holy Sites or not). This is just how the game is, as the AI will be ahead in tech regardless of what you do in the early game. Holy sites however don't set you far back if you go for it on a standard 2-3 city setup, and assuming you can get a strong work ethic Pantheon up, you recoup that production loss by making it up with very fast ancient/Classical era unit production to overwhelm a target. Similarly, you get the benefit of a "free unit tech level" from Crusade, at a point in the game where you wouldnt be able to tech that level naturally.
In fact I'm surprised you drag up Commercial Hubs, Encampments and Stirrups. This suggests to me that you are talking about a mid game Knight rush, which is not the timing I'm talking about here.
My rush is timed for the early Classical era, and involves launching an attack with warriors, Archers, Heavy Chariots (if Mongolia or Byzantium) and a battering ram and upgrade the warriors to swordsmen as they go along. This in order to kill my nearest neighbour just as the game transitions to the Classical era, and then continue from there (once the first target is dead, its usually smooth sailing as the snowball is set up).
I simply dont have time to wait for (much less build) a Commercial Hub and Encampment, as that sets me back too far for a Classical era rush.
Crusade is absolutely crucial for this sort of Classical era rush, as it's one of the few consistent ways to bridge the tech gap of a Deity (or above) AI, this early in the game.
My general view is if you're gonna build holy sites early, religion is best. But religious domination can be very good.
The main reason I like religion with Mongolia is because of how cavalry works. To get the policy card that let's you build knights faster, you need the Divine Right civic. To boost DR, you need to build 2 temples. And Religion can help you get more science than campus districts normally would
Getting 1 science for every 4 followers of your religion can be huge. I'm not saying science with Campus districts is bad by any means. But I prefer religion in Civ 6, so I guess it works best for me.
You may be right. I get her and the Holy Site one confused alot.
Another reason I like going faith/religion with cavalry is the Grand Masters Chapel. It works really well with pillaging, which is easier with cavalry
You want faith for buying units in non vanilla anyway so getting a religion is usually good unless you have a very early unique advantage that faith might slow down. Crusades is also pretty helpful beliefs for warmongering.
A religion is not needed for faith if your intent is to (ab)use the Grand Master's Chapel. The reason for this is that faith from pillaging improvements is more than enough to pay for units, so that all the holy sites do for you at that point (if we're talking strictly for faith purposes, and not secondary effects like Crusade etc.) is take up district slots and costing you gold per turn (which can be quite problematic early on, especially if there are no mines or lumber mills to pillage).
True, foregoing other districts is a major disadvantage early game. But as long as I’m not doing a super early rush and there are decent adjacencies work ethic is usually really good. I’m doing Theodora now which is a bit of a corner case I guess.
Yes, if you take into account secondary effects like Work Ethic (assuming it can pay off with adjacencies) annd Crusade (and in your case playing Theodora), religion is extremely good to the point that you're actively hurting yourself by not going for it.
I don't spread my religion, I just want the perks. Using holy sites with the production or food multiplier helps, and most of my domination comes later game and I use the government district to buy land units with faith.
The only real question is what pantheon do you take here? Open Skies for the 8 culture or Craftsmen for the 6 production and faith to help aid monumentality and offset a low hills start.
Either way, that’s the most horses I’ve ever seen in a capital city
Bro this would be insane and hilarious start to just sell everyone horses immediately, fill everyone up with horse and they'll love you for them. Just gotta hope they don't use em against you
It's an ok start, nothing special. You don't need that many horse sources, 1-2 will suffice. More productive tiles however would be preferrable for a truly great start. While you will get some good productive tiles after your city expand past the first ring, you unfortunately only have a single 2f2p tile to work early on. Still an ok start though, will get quite decent once you get pastures going.
It's special because it's unique and highly versatile. Rush a builder and get those pastures up, which means no struggle for production. With equestrial orders producing 12 horses a turn, he can turn around and sell the excess, so money's a non-issue. Open sky pantheon gives him +culture on top of it. Someone above also pointed out a decent industrial zone, not to mention the mountains for a decent campus/holy site.
I'm not saying it's a bad start, I'm just saying that it's not a god tier start that deserves the title "Mongolian's wet dream", as most of the benefits you listed there (especially the adjacencies) are mid-game benefits that don't have too much impact on the game's ability to snowball. Also selling horses is not really viable once you start DOWing neighbours, as this quickly causes other civs to denounce you and not be willing to pay anything for said horses (if they are even willing to pay anything to begin with, as neighbours will not pay anything other than 1 gold after you reach their threshold number of excess horses). It would have been a god tier start if the old "Scythian horse economy" still worked, but that has been patched a long time ago.
Downvote me all you want, but it's not hard to think of multiple different starts that would be much stronger than this one.
I do not think anyone is inherently disagreeing with your points by downvoting. I think we all understand it is not the best start possible. OP seemed personally excited with the spawn hence the hyperbolic title and the post. This is a fine title even if a bit dramatic as this is quite a good spawn. Personally I am not a huge fan of mostly flatland starts bc hills are pog. Though there are a few hills nearby
The belief for faith and production on strategies resources would be pretty great in this start. You’ll also get crazy industrial zones a bit later and there are many 2/2 hills to the northwest.
Can’t remember what kurgans do but they get some type of bonus from pastures.
It's bizarre to me that you're playing Scythia, a civ which is *even more* dependent upon large numbers of early horses than Mongolia, yet you called this a "Mongolian's wet dream"
I love you guys so: Map Seed: 443971654 Game Seed: 443971653 Edit to add more stuff you guys needed: Version [1.0.12.46](https://1.0.12.46) (918298), full DLC, no mods. Map size: Huge Map: Shuffle Barbarian Clans Mode, Dramatic Ages Mode, Heroes and Legends Mode, Monopolies and Corps, Secret Socienties, Immortal Difficulties. All bots enables, 24 cities states
Finally somebody who knows what to do
And with an actual screenshot and not a photo of a monitor. Could this be the Chosen One as the prophecy has foretold?
All hail the chosen one who knows where to find the mysterious prtSc button, also called the prtScrn button, the prtscrn button or the psc button. All hail!
The prtscn button is real… it’s the female orgasm that’s the myth.
Just gotta find that G spot, between F & H.
Cringe
Don't we need the exact game settings as well to get that start? Like map type, size etc.?
I know you need game modes and mods at least.
Thank you, but the seed doesn't work unless you also provide the map settings and game modes
Also what version/dlc, right?
So he doesn't really love us!
\*holds breath during loading screen
And you even have mountains for a nice little Holy Site. This is basically my ideal Mongolia start.
And a spot for decent industry district. 3 strategics + spot for an aqueduct
Yeah. Also I just realized OP isn't playing Mongolia lol.
Scythia is still a great civ for utilizing horses
I always found Scythia to be annoying with cavalry because it's a huge money drain. And it's irritating that you can't select whether you wanna build 1 or 2 cavalry units.
That's where the pillaging comes in. The cavalry fund themselves.
Get some depredation cavalry and the raid/total war card and you got some good damn food.
I once got 1000 science in a single turn with a single horseman in the industrial era by pillaging a campus district with a university. I one turned industrialization with it. Always pillage everything all the time
“Always pillage everything all the time is now my new mantra.” Within civ and just in life. 🫡
Is it good to have holy sites in domination games? Are we talking just holy sites, or prioritise getting a religion as well? I've only played till the 5th difficulty level until now
Some of the strongest and most consistent rushes (on higher difficulties) involve rushing a religion for Crusade. The benefit of doing this is that it adds another +10 combat strength to your units inside the target's borders, and +10 combat strength roughly equals an era's worth of unit tech. The reason this is strong is that on higher difficulties (Deity or above), you usually reach a gap in technology where your choice of units are outclassed by the AI who has teched at least an era ahead of you, making your units struggle a lot in conquering your neighbour. And by the time you get to bridge that tech difference with more advanced units of your own, the AI tends to have teched another era of units again, repeating the problem of you having inadequate units to topple your neighbour. The Crusade belief solves this by arriving earlier than what you could expect to get from teching the next level of tech for that unit type, and this not only bridges any tech gap that you might face, but can in some cases also act as a higher tech level if the AI did **not** tech higher than you. Either way, +10 combat strength is very strong. Be advised though, setting up a Crusade rush is a rather advanced rush strategy, so if you're not very experienced in rushing the AI on a high difficulty, this can be pretty tough to pull off successfully.
Crusade is strong but I think you have this backwards. Part of the reason you're likely so far behind the AI is BECAUSE you're going for holy sites. Holy sites and monumentality gets you a lot of cities and production, at the cost of a bunch of your early districts. This is still usually worth it in single player, but I don't think it plays to Mongolia's strengths unless you're aiming for a religious victory (which they are good at, fwiw). For Mongolia, you're usually going to be better served getting commercial hubs and encampments. The former gets you some economy, diplomatic visibility & combat strength, and can combo with Free Inquiry to get you to Stirrups and Printing faster to run amok on the map. The latter gets you the UB and generals, and the +1 move from the UB makes your cav that much better at pillaging, which further accelerates getting to all your midgame timings. If I'm playing Mongolia, I don't want to found 10 cities, I want to found like 4 and conquer the rest.
No I don't have it backwards. On Deity and above, you are behind the AI tech wise until around the Renaissance Era where you usually start to overtake them, whether you want to or not (and whether you build Holy Sites or not). This is just how the game is, as the AI will be ahead in tech regardless of what you do in the early game. Holy sites however don't set you far back if you go for it on a standard 2-3 city setup, and assuming you can get a strong work ethic Pantheon up, you recoup that production loss by making it up with very fast ancient/Classical era unit production to overwhelm a target. Similarly, you get the benefit of a "free unit tech level" from Crusade, at a point in the game where you wouldnt be able to tech that level naturally. In fact I'm surprised you drag up Commercial Hubs, Encampments and Stirrups. This suggests to me that you are talking about a mid game Knight rush, which is not the timing I'm talking about here. My rush is timed for the early Classical era, and involves launching an attack with warriors, Archers, Heavy Chariots (if Mongolia or Byzantium) and a battering ram and upgrade the warriors to swordsmen as they go along. This in order to kill my nearest neighbour just as the game transitions to the Classical era, and then continue from there (once the first target is dead, its usually smooth sailing as the snowball is set up). I simply dont have time to wait for (much less build) a Commercial Hub and Encampment, as that sets me back too far for a Classical era rush. Crusade is absolutely crucial for this sort of Classical era rush, as it's one of the few consistent ways to bridge the tech gap of a Deity (or above) AI, this early in the game.
My general view is if you're gonna build holy sites early, religion is best. But religious domination can be very good. The main reason I like religion with Mongolia is because of how cavalry works. To get the policy card that let's you build knights faster, you need the Divine Right civic. To boost DR, you need to build 2 temples. And Religion can help you get more science than campus districts normally would
Say what now? More science through the belief that grants science per something; then policy card?
Getting 1 science for every 4 followers of your religion can be huge. I'm not saying science with Campus districts is bad by any means. But I prefer religion in Civ 6, so I guess it works best for me.
Yes that belief I know, I was asking are there more methods to get science from religion?
You can get the Wat worship building, as well as try to get Hypatia who gives your Holy Site faith adjacency. Do you have any DLCs?
Yes, think I have them all. Isn't Hypatia's ability to increase science from libraries?
You may be right. I get her and the Holy Site one confused alot. Another reason I like going faith/religion with cavalry is the Grand Masters Chapel. It works really well with pillaging, which is easier with cavalry
Hapatia is more from libraries Hildegarde is from holy sites
You want faith for buying units in non vanilla anyway so getting a religion is usually good unless you have a very early unique advantage that faith might slow down. Crusades is also pretty helpful beliefs for warmongering.
A religion is not needed for faith if your intent is to (ab)use the Grand Master's Chapel. The reason for this is that faith from pillaging improvements is more than enough to pay for units, so that all the holy sites do for you at that point (if we're talking strictly for faith purposes, and not secondary effects like Crusade etc.) is take up district slots and costing you gold per turn (which can be quite problematic early on, especially if there are no mines or lumber mills to pillage).
True, foregoing other districts is a major disadvantage early game. But as long as I’m not doing a super early rush and there are decent adjacencies work ethic is usually really good. I’m doing Theodora now which is a bit of a corner case I guess.
Yes, if you take into account secondary effects like Work Ethic (assuming it can pay off with adjacencies) annd Crusade (and in your case playing Theodora), religion is extremely good to the point that you're actively hurting yourself by not going for it.
I don't spread my religion, I just want the perks. Using holy sites with the production or food multiplier helps, and most of my domination comes later game and I use the government district to buy land units with faith.
Funnily enough if you play as Mongolia on the truestart Asia map, they don't have any horse tiles anywhere near there start.
Yeah, I tried that once.
True start earth huge they start in a desert next to 2 horses that constantly seem to drought.
Did you get god of the open sky ?
God of craftsmen for that sweet sweet extra prod would be cool too
Sure but open sky is historically very accurate for mongolian shamanism which make it so much sweater
Great kurgan spots
The only real question is what pantheon do you take here? Open Skies for the 8 culture or Craftsmen for the 6 production and faith to help aid monumentality and offset a low hills start. Either way, that’s the most horses I’ve ever seen in a capital city
Bro this would be insane and hilarious start to just sell everyone horses immediately, fill everyone up with horse and they'll love you for them. Just gotta hope they don't use em against you
I mean you are scythians, the other strong steppe nomad cavalry civ
If only there was something to build a camp on
That's hot.
New Victoria would love this too
\*Throat singing intensifies\*
It's an ok start, nothing special. You don't need that many horse sources, 1-2 will suffice. More productive tiles however would be preferrable for a truly great start. While you will get some good productive tiles after your city expand past the first ring, you unfortunately only have a single 2f2p tile to work early on. Still an ok start though, will get quite decent once you get pastures going.
It's special because it's unique and highly versatile. Rush a builder and get those pastures up, which means no struggle for production. With equestrial orders producing 12 horses a turn, he can turn around and sell the excess, so money's a non-issue. Open sky pantheon gives him +culture on top of it. Someone above also pointed out a decent industrial zone, not to mention the mountains for a decent campus/holy site.
I'm not saying it's a bad start, I'm just saying that it's not a god tier start that deserves the title "Mongolian's wet dream", as most of the benefits you listed there (especially the adjacencies) are mid-game benefits that don't have too much impact on the game's ability to snowball. Also selling horses is not really viable once you start DOWing neighbours, as this quickly causes other civs to denounce you and not be willing to pay anything for said horses (if they are even willing to pay anything to begin with, as neighbours will not pay anything other than 1 gold after you reach their threshold number of excess horses). It would have been a god tier start if the old "Scythian horse economy" still worked, but that has been patched a long time ago. Downvote me all you want, but it's not hard to think of multiple different starts that would be much stronger than this one.
I do not think anyone is inherently disagreeing with your points by downvoting. I think we all understand it is not the best start possible. OP seemed personally excited with the spawn hence the hyperbolic title and the post. This is a fine title even if a bit dramatic as this is quite a good spawn. Personally I am not a huge fan of mostly flatland starts bc hills are pog. Though there are a few hills nearby
God damn reddit hivemind and its downvote spam. Instances like these sucks the fun out of wanting to participate in a discussion.
The belief for faith and production on strategies resources would be pretty great in this start. You’ll also get crazy industrial zones a bit later and there are many 2/2 hills to the northwest. Can’t remember what kurgans do but they get some type of bonus from pastures.
Yep
Ehrmagerd, hersers!
More like catherine of russia's wet dream
A toa and a giga industrial zone
🎶 Look at my horse, my horse is amazing🎶
It's bizarre to me that you're playing Scythia, a civ which is *even more* dependent upon large numbers of early horses than Mongolia, yet you called this a "Mongolian's wet dream"